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Spanish Residency & Tax Planning | Pellicer & Heredia
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Oct 29, 2024
Spanish Residency & Tax Planning - including the deadline for filing the Modelo 720 - were among the many legal issues for British (and other) Expats in Spain with Ignacio from Pellicer & Heredia. Every other Wednesday morning, your international lawyers based on the Costa Blanca are in chatting with Moody about the latest laws affecting those living in Spain...or those who wish to continue living in Spain post Brexit. There's lots about residency in here, plus the different kinds of visas available to non-residents. You can read about these in detail at www.visaspain.today or see www.alicantelawyers.es Be sure to Like 👍 this and Subscribe to our channel if you found it useful. Website: http://www.bayradio.fm/ Mobile App: https://app.appinstitute.com/yddcc Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BayRadioInSpain Twitter: https://twitter.com/bayradioinspain Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bayradiospain/
View Video Transcript
0:00
[Music] this is bay radio there's a fortnight flown by delighted to welcome back
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ignacio from payta and eradia international lawyers on the costa blanca morning welcome back in
0:10
good morning muddy how are you today very well thank you yeah i don't even need to ask if you've been busy the last couple of
0:16
weeks like you'd ask a taxi driver when you get in um because you have plenty going on of course um and
0:21
you'll have done a couple of webinars yes i'm sure we did the one on the actual day the evening that we spoke to you that's right and actually
0:28
we're holding one tomorrow uh five o'clock spanish uh madrid time for the 7 20 we're doing i
0:35
don't know if you probably heard about it 7 20 and all these implications i do you want me to go
0:42
through it yes this is the model 720 form that we've we've we touched on it i think last week we have with other people as well but um
0:48
importance and yeah because it's deadline it's this month isn't it yeah let me just clarify and just uh bring
0:54
some tips of advice here to the audience because it's important and i'm still surprised many people still don't know
1:00
about what this modelo is uh it came into force in 2013 so it's a
1:05
long time ago but a lot of people now especially now during the tax planning with the visa applications that we are as you could
1:11
imagine we are busy now with all these non-lucrative visa and golden visas yes
1:16
and one of these questions that we always get is tax planning but one of the things that people and probably the people who
1:23
was here last year in 2020 i will i will ask them to check
1:29
their ti card and to make sure they know the date where they issue the ti card right is that it's a typical
1:35
question now and a very important question if you were after july that means that probably you were in
1:42
spain on a residential less than six months right right if you were less than six months that means you are non-tax code in spain
1:49
not non-resident in spain and therefore you don't need to do since you're not
1:55
tax resident you don't need to do modelo 720 mozilla 720 is for those who are resident spain
2:02
and all these miners and residents in spain were obliged to declare worldwide assets abroad right for people
2:10
to remember is always 50 000 euros abroad on three categories one bank account
2:15
whether you own it uh jointly or in your name two shares bonds uh
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any money that you can recover or withdraw any time right for example even if you have an
2:28
insurance that you could withdraw it you need to declare it um and three properties but at the
2:34
purchase time it costs you over 50 000 euros okay so this is the three things people need to
2:40
do on top of that you will need to increase if you have an increase on 20 000 euros
2:47
of these figures then you need to update it or if you can sell
2:52
that contract let's say you cancel bank account inherited or whether any any cancellation of
2:58
products you need to report it the year after okay um now it's very important for
3:05
people to to understand whether they're tax resident or not if there are the 720 always goes from january
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to march and then the income tax return comes from april till june so it's very important people to bear in mind
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and you probably heard about all these possible fines and things like that uh haven't you yes we did yes i mean
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that would that because what happened when it got challenged didn't it the size of the fines and i think the eu took issue with yes
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that's right but they weren't saying that they don't have to do this yes that's correct uh the situation where we stand at the moment model 720
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the problem the main problem it has is the fines right my experience here
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i haven't seen the tax office very active on giving fines i've seen some inspections but
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probably it came always because of disclosing information from different countries for example
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uh the isle of just the uk or this closing information and then the tax
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office in spain knows that you have some product you didn't declare it okay i always recommend first
4:09
people to declare it that uh not to declare it because two different finds if you don't declare
4:14
it they give you a high fine that finds is the ones that are being contested my opinion
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is i think that model will always stay but the fines will be reduced that's my personal opinion according you
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know is for example if you don't lodge your income tax return you always will have
4:32
a fine if they catch you but the fine with the income tax is never as as high as the 720 so
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probably the proportion of the fines is what it really makes it um kind of against european
4:45
law yes is it because it's quite new they sort of brought it in they thought well we need to get this in place make sure people do it so we'll
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introduce a hefty fine if they don't that's right that's basically especially it was thought about for spaniards you know a lot of spaniards
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just having bank accounts approached and since tax office doesn't know then uh probably you don't even declare
5:03
it um that's why now more than ever is and especially because of of brexit because
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of the immigration passport controls and visas now it's very important to do tax planning and to make sure
5:15
you have everything under control people are worried that as soon as they declare this they'll get taxed on it immediately it's not the
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case is that it will show towards your income tax return that you need to do but it's not an instance no and at the
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end of the day in moody here let's say you have 55 000 euros let's say in the uk or
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abroad it doesn't make any interest it doesn't make anything but at the end of the day you're not going to pay any tax because
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the tax is only paid on the interest you generate so they just want information that's all
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really yeah but it's important for people to do tax planning and speak to their tax advisors
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and and and to put things in in place you know and then just to put your mind to rest isn't it
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you know as that's basically it yeah and it but is it is it per household so if you've got two bank accounts if that needs to add
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up to 50. you can't have 50 000 each yes uh the the always figure is 50 000
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even though you have in different bank accounts or even if you have a that figure with a
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joint partner yes right so um if if you have let's say 50 000 euros
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joint you still have to enjoy it even though you say i only own 50 it doesn't matter you need to do it it's
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um i'm not that um and the thing to be honest here um the importance say
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is that situation only affects you eventually in your income tax return if
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applies so that means yeah declaring is one thing taxing is a different matter and then
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probably being non-tax code is a different issue so you could be today a tax resident but probably in five
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years time you're a no tax resident it doesn't really affect you you know um i think it's a good value for that to
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do planning yeah um an assets 50 000 euros or above so i i i'm unfamiliar with the model of 720
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if you don't uh if you have anything below that you don't need to do one you don't need to fill one in that's correct that's correct
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so um so yes that's basically that's the figure for people to keep in mind and another thing that people probably
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forget if they can sell these products or they had an increase on twenty thousand euros
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right okay so it's important they keep up with it some people probably forgot to do it at
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the time when they became residents and they are now in a situation a lot of people that they didn't do in
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the past and they don't know what to do yeah so my recommendation here is to
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declare to to go and speak to your your uh lawyer and tax advisor and
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and find the best solution for it uh i always consider it and and so far declaring is best and
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non-declaring and so far my experience um the the tax office
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did not um to the to the knowledge i i've been through um is being
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reasonable to those who lodge it late because as long as you lodge it late but you declare your tax
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tax office hasn't hasn't sent letters if you ask me have you received any letters from clients i hardly seen a few
8:21
inspections um but they were very clear because of this closing uh information from abroad so yeah yeah
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yeah sure all right so basically but if nothing's changed you don't need to update it no if nothing has changed you don't need
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to update it and if you didn't earn anything with it then you don't need to pay the tax eventually
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but getting on to um tax itself as you say that's the next thing up until june because anyone coming from
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the uk they'll be used to the april to april it's a little bit different here yes
8:52
some clients just ask me nothing could i start my year in in april now in in spain we start
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from january to december right makes sense yeah the situation here that's why i
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said at the beginning about the ti the situation and you can find the
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information in our website uh about taxes in spain mozilla 720 in our website
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uh more accurate i always say it's important for you once you do
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the immigration side let's call it ti or visa whatever applies
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make sure you read the date of um issuing issuing date okay because that will be
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officially the starting point where the tax office might have an evidence that you are resident in spain
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so from that people coming over after july this year 2021
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they will have to do only non-resident if applicable for 2020 so if you came in after july you spend
9:52
less than six months in spain in 2020 therefore this year we're doing the tax from last year as a
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non-resident right yes okay because it's less than six months ago yeah now uh people wants to do in a different
10:07
time of the year no you the only way you could control a humanity is if you could prove and now with passport
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control it's very easy if you're gonna stay let's say you've got your um your
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residential but probably by some reasons you really do not stay this year more than
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six months right that needs to be discussed with your tax advisor because last year you were non-tax resident but
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this year you've got the residential you're going to be below six months right then it is important
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to but is is it's a professional discussion this you know because uh having the residency you send your
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resident then being less than six months uh you are no tax resident
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but we need to be very active on evidence because you know how tax office is they send a letter
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and and and they just want you to reply in 10 days and i always say clients keep yourself very straight
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with paperwork on your desk um having if you're tax resident in the uk make sure you have a
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certificate you know if from the uk inland revenue saying you're a tax red in the uk this
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is very handy yeah and and it really stops any letter here it it really works yeah but as i said the
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immigration side goes first then second you need to do the tax planning and sometimes
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speak to a law firm or or a firm that uh that deals with both because one
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goes with the other yeah i hadn't thought of that because if you've got your residential as you say here that that just rolls on but they don't know
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that you're um you're not spending more than six months yeah you you've got a good point here now we're going to have the issues with people
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with a tie permanente with permanente is pretty much straight on right they're
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not going to ask you anything here and and probably will be easier to defend
11:54
certain things for example last inspection i had through the through the tax office we had to prove passport controls people
12:02
being in dubai saying they were tax raising in dubai for example and tax office saying you have a
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property here you have some evidence here you know you need to disclose a lot of documents
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um it's important for you to inform the tax man of your status so
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if you're going to pay even though you have your residency let's say people under the withdrawal agreements with residencia
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they will have an easier path to defend but i always say always have
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documents you know to prove your vision and the people money with visas now is going to be much difficult as you just said
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because it's passport control and the residency you know the non-lucrative visa you need one year
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then you renew two years then two years then five after five is a straightforward but
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until then they're going to check how many days you spend in spain at one time of course it didn't concern brits but a third country now
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and uh very different um what do we want to uh discuss here oh yeah about um
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people still buying properties buying and selling because um there's legal aspects to that of course and uh you're busy with that
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sort of thing well at the moment i feel there is a lot of people still with the money in their bank account
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waiting to have the opportunity to come over to spain we have we've been having conveyancing
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even though in a low low status at the moment because
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normally resident people living here uh moving from one property to the other
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one you know but obviously as you could imagine because of the passports uh
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well not passed but actually is at the airport uh control and community valenciana i just heard it's going to be
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block only for residents until uh april 22 or april is that right it's
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definitely after easter anyway yes then obviously um they're not going to allow people unless they're residents so
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we are having this problem people willing to buy properties but i had a moody there is a lot of people
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even viewing on the virtual touring
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and then just making deposit paying deposits et cetera et cetera or committing themselves so when they
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have the chance to come over to spain put things in motion the way i'm feeling is because of the visas we're doing
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you know uh i'm expecting a lot of people to come uh especially because of the visa
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applications they're putting things through right and and definitely that people at the end
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they're going to end up buying or renting so so i really think uh
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we have a a positive year of a lot of people uh coming over a lot of people that make
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plans in the old days um to retired and because of kovit
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really they're not going to let jupiterize their dream and they just really want to come so yes um it's important if they're
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buying a property in spain uh to do the tax planning as i said not only the visa but just to work out um the
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selling in the uk or wherever you come from and reinvesting again back again here
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so it is important for them to do the planning i've been having a lot of video conference with with clients already putting a
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scenario with with our account and myself and them um doing the planning
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planning the move basically uh moody so how could you be exempt on selling your
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main home back home right and reinvesting here in spain to be tax-free right right
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so there is a way to join so even though you but you need to know the timings right
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it's a bit complex to explain here because i might drive people crazy with figures but there is a way there is
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a way to reinvest the only requirements you need you need to be your permanent house where you're coming from and you need to
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reinvest it within a period of time and again to be your permanent house
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okay so that's one um over 65 you know is exempt okay on your main property so even if
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people are trying to buy and sell that's exempt okay so that that's one
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situation for people to bear in mind and with regards to second properties uh
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we're keeping now exactly the same as we were before um the the capital gain tax yes i was
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going to ask you about that yeah yeah yeah it will be 19 up to 6 000 21 up to 50 and then after that
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uh 23 we did update in our website if you go into our website and
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and you go what we do taxes in spain so is alicante lawyers.es what we do
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taxes in spain you will see now la renta right is is very common word in spain income tax
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return that's right yeah yeah and we just did update it that article is very accurate
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as much as you could do in a in a brief blog okay and you have this lighting scale
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there so you because every year moody you know you really change
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right so uh like pension funds this year uh the allowance for pension funds is
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only 2 000 euros not 8 000 euros um now the capital gain tax there is a
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sliding scale there so it's good for them to look at it because it gives a lot of information
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and and it helps you planning i'll tell you what um if you're talking about paying tax that sort of thing i don't know if it comes
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under your remit um it's more the legal side rather than accountancy but about the self-employed people the
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autonomous here because they're looking at it aren't they they would it was mooted that um maybe they'll start doing that on a sliding scale so that it's
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based on what you're earning because it's i mean to anyone that comes and does it here seems ludicrous that
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everybody pays the same that flat rate once it gets up to 280 euros a month after a couple of years
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you i guess you talking about social security yes yes yeah that right monthly payment yeah that's a good point you brought i mean
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people we have a lot of people as well moving or relocating right we've got as well the relocation
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uh services in the website and you will see a lot of people wants to come over here to work right um
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well now as i said from an immigration point of view uh it will be pretty hard it's not
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impossible is it it's just it is a lot of work and paperwork but you could ask for a work visa i'm
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having a lot demand on people trying to set up their own business here in spain
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and it's got a special visa probably i might recommend people to do first non-liquidity visa
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and then within the year that you settle here in spain you do apply for a visa from here okay
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but that's the immigration side then when you start without tournament mode if you just join the system
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there is a big allowance as you probably heard the first six months is 50 euros then
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after the other six months i think it goes to 110. then the other six months it goes 190
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and then it goes into 280. yes that covers uh further pensions and social security for
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you and your family i agree is a flat fee is very uh unfair to people who's starting
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because they want to a lot of people you know that but it's kind of off-putting if they think well i've got to before i do anything i've
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have to pay that's you know the the situation where we are is uh to start a business it costs you money
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yeah you know and that's the the hard part and i think the government is working on it now
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they really want to do so they say they want to give incentives to pmess
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which is small companies and autonomous which is self-employed and they even want to give incentive to
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setting up companies on a very straightforward way of doing it uh
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people really asked me about is it worth it for me to start with an sl company or shall i start with autonomous that's
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another one of the questions that i get very regular and it's a taxa scenario to be honest uh
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being autonomous if you're going to start very slowly it's cheaper yes definitely yeah yeah
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now if you're going to start invoicing a lot if you're having a company you've got an allowance of 15
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uh company tax the first three years of positive income so again
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it is a lot of individual advice here but going back to to your point of the 280 yes
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we used to get these people saying uh it's a lot of money and and sometime fortunately you cannot
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afford it but hopefully i think that because of the situation now and how high you set
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up your business um is going to change money you think so yeah i think it's going to change i don't know how quick and how fast
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um for those who are starting the business basically because once you start running
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the business for autonomous is like a pension fund you know and you have health for the whole family so
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let's say you are four people four people covering for 280 euros full
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health with the probably is i think it is fifty percent medicines i think it is
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right cover or fortune yeah right um plus pension i agree that with
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that amount of money i will always encourage people to have a pension fund or you know because with autonomous you
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will always get like probably like a state pension basically in the future and what is that is it it's 15 years yes
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build up minimum and then i encourage people as well who did work here and
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they want to know how much is the pension so they could do pension planning
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to go and arrange an appointment at the social security office uh to to tell them their situation and
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to see how many more years they need to contribute into the system yeah and how much money they're going to
22:08
get you know yeah that's something that's come up recently i'll just mention it here as well that anyone that's left the uk um you could
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still get your state pension um they sort of forget about it and maybe they left off paying but you
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can there's a way of topping it up and bringing it back up to it's 9 000 a year or something um but maybe
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still eligible for it if you paid into it up to a certain point you might as well take it and there's a
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sudden bonus yeah that extra money and and there is situation that you could even put together the two
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pensions i love our clients did contribute x amount of money here x amount of money abroad
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in the uk and uh they put them together if if you were from the united states obviously there
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is not a possibility but here we've done it for a lot of people and it adds up you know it it
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does a lump sum in the two countries so yeah it's good to keep an eye on that functions yeah we mentioned about
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selling your main home in the uk uh to buy property here in spain which will be your main home and i'm not sure
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who this is and put the name on it but it's a good question what about going the other way so um selling up in spain going back to
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the uk that will be their main home um about the taxes if you're under 65.
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right um i think the situation here you will sell it and you will definitely
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deregister yourself as a non-resident i guess so
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obviously we'll need to look into what what will be the date you're selling it
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whether you are selling and the register yourself whether that year you're going to be tax
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resident or not tax resident in spain because if you are tax resident in spain
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you're selling your property your main property about your investor in the uk
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my recommendation will be to inform the tax office that you will be
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no longer tax raised in spain after this year the only thing
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is when you informed you're going to be non-resident you will inform an address here or probably i guess i don't know if
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it's the scenario of this lady she will leave and she will have no property nothing in spain
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yeah this is that basically actually it's paul that's come back in in javier um just worried about the capital gains tax
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um really um right is there a way around it yeah if the thing is um it's a good question
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uh i think we really need to sit down and see what dates we are uh he's selling the property
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and how can we put him as a non resident i guess he what he will do he will sell
24:47
it and then he will de-register himself uh but i need to know dates as well uh
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to put you on an scenario because you might be tax president now but you're going to
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leave and you need to deregister yourself from the tax office you need to deregister from the immigration department as well
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um there is a lot of things you need to do and if you're tax resident in spain and there is no way to avoid that
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scenario you'll have to declare that and if you're going to buy in the uk
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eventually what we need to comply with the time limit you'll have to inform that you have
25:26
reinvested in a main property in the uk yes okay right so it will be the same
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scenario but i think it's worth to look into details to do it properly yes so it's not very easy muddy no but
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there may be there may be a way there is worth thank you for that i mean it's it's good
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of you we're firing questions at you you're answering for free at this stage but uh it's what you're in for to cover
25:50
this sort of thing um now something else was um paying tax on maybe income from a property yes if
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you're not resident in spain so that's changed has it yes uh brexit yeah yeah now non-europeans
26:06
um used to and now the scenario is being
26:11
a non-resident as a non-european if you remember in the old days it was
26:16
19 the non-resident tax and now he went uh as an non-european 24 if you
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are renting out a property um you will pay on a quarter basis if
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you're renting it out or you just you need to do several forms you need to do um
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one form if you're renting it out and another one as just an owner okay okay basically for
26:41
you to have it clear in your mind if you the the situation has changed
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in in this respect you can no longer deduct expenses on the rental and then you pay
26:53
24 so let's say you're having a thousand euros and then you have some expenses
26:59
you cannot detect it and then you pay 24 of that a thousand euros so probably
27:05
it might be very good to have to minimize another way around to minimize your expenses in the
27:10
landlord so it's good to have it in the tenant okay that's a good a good advice
27:16
um then on the long run in the long run uh if you're gonna rent it or if you're gonna have it let's say you have a
27:22
holiday home here in the area and you're gonna pay the non-resident tax in the old days it used to be 19 and
27:28
now it's 24 of the catastrophic value with this 2 percent
27:34
percentage we need to do so we need to take the classical value make a multiplication and then pay 19 24
27:42
okay if you are if you are um european is 19
27:50
and then you could detect the expenses now for selling let's make it very clear selling capital
27:57
gain tax stays the same whether you are european or non-european so again
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on this uh on these and the website in what we do taxes in spain you will
28:09
see the sliding scale 19 21 23 so you could just uh work out
28:17
that and then yes you will be able to use the expenses on the capital gain tax right okay i see
28:24
yeah yeah it's a bit complex but let's put it this way there are changes
28:29
no but that's interesting that's the first time that's come up um about because this this will affect british people yes so when you say
28:35
non-european you mean outside of the eu yes yeah yes yes um so anyone that's got the property
28:41
here that they rent out but don't live here yes that's gone up to twenty four percent and no expenses allowed
28:46
no yeah that's quite a thing yeah i'm glad we brought that up because uh yeah we used to inform that
28:53
uh in in the in our blog we did publish that long time ago all we expected uh to have something
28:59
different and something not to happen as like having a a treaty or things like that but still that's where we are it's like
29:05
driving license we still don't have a treaty so yeah we are on the high side yeah do you think there's still some stuff that may
29:12
be able to be sorted out because uh whether spain can talk to the uk as a separate you know individual
29:17
countries now rather than having to talk to the eu as a whole there may be bits that get sorted i i always hope i always hope
29:24
that this will be common sense but as you know money common sense sometimes doesn't doesn't work much
29:29
where does that come into it yeah the current government i don't know so yeah if you say would you just put it
29:35
on the website as well some article about a treaty that about gibraltar we we talk
29:41
uh tax office about the situation um of the real situation of people
29:48
uh being domiciled in gibraltar but not really living there and things like that that has been changed and that was a
29:54
treaty from last year actually yes that came up in our spanish news yesterday yes um so that it's not used
29:59
as a tax haven for for spaniards as well uh yes yeah pretty much basically i mean at the
30:04
end of the day you need to bear in mind all this is planned on spaniards you know because with 48 million
30:10
people they always focus on that but always affects expats but yes having have a have a read
30:17
on the article i think it's quite interesting for people that have business in gibraltar
30:23
and from a tax point of view um so we've mentioned the webinars which are very good there's another one coming
30:28
is this this evening yes no we're doing it tomorrow sorry tomorrow tomorrow five o'clock and we'll be talking about
30:35
the specific topic of 720. we we're going to just talk about the 720 we're going to we always accept
30:41
questions and answers uh are they coming and we do
30:47
give one hour because otherwise this is too much you know is and and we try to answer as many
30:54
questions i will be there on the panel uh pedro myself probably michael
30:59
and uh our accountant who who will deal with a specific model so i think it's very useful yes because
31:06
that's um well that's two weeks today isn't it the 31st that's the deadline um correct correct and and people really
31:12
need to know what is their specific circumstances so so yes yes and we didn't do much on the visas
31:19
this time because we covered it quite a lot before non-lucrative visas et cetera but all the details as i say on our on your website the blog is
31:25
excellent um some really good articles on there so the easiest way to get to it's alicante lawyers. yes but for more
31:31
details on visas um a dedicated uh website which is visa spain dot today so the dot today is this
31:39
the suffix there so visa spain dot today and that's yeah focus is particularly
31:44
that particularly is the the visas that people really are applying for uh we did put all the requirements and
31:52
we are already in contact every day with the spanish consulate in in in london in manchester
31:58
uh actually uh yesterday they they did say muddy uh we were trying to get an appointment
32:03
for somebody on the 23rd of march and they said no it needs to be made i may and i don't know what problems
32:10
they have probably overwhelm or i don't know but they've been but they have managed
32:15
already to respect what they said on the 23rd of march so i'm saying people who are gonna do it i
32:21
always encourage to be active on paperwork and and appointments because
32:26
you know how appointments work yes yeah and uh form filling and all that sort of thing so yeah yeah well we're out of time
32:33
mauricio dougie mack will be breaking down the door with an axe in a moment to get in here and do his show but we thank you as always for your time
32:39
thank you and this will go up on our website to listen back to by the way there's a lady i think that's um sent what's up through didn't catch
32:45
the name of the company so pay there and eredia but alicante lawyers. yes that's who you're and who's ignacio we've been
32:52
talking to there we go hope that'll clear that up and you see you or somebody else yes in a couple of weeks time here yes see you
32:57
in two weeks time
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