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SQUATTERS in Your Spanish Property: Your Legal Rights | Pellicer & Heredia
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Oct 29, 2024
Ignacio was in this time from @Pellicerheredia talking to Kal ahead of their Webinar on SQUATTERS, or "OKUPAS", here in Spain. It can be a distressing time having to go through the lengthy legal process to get them out, and can take longer than you might imagine. Watch the video to find out what legal options are available in the event that this should happen to you. They also touched on the fact that there is still no date for the scrapping of Spain's 'Golden Visa' so you can still apply. You can find out more about visa and residency options at www.alicantelawyers.es, where you can also watch back some of the previous webinars. Be sure to Like 👍 this and Subscribe to our channel if you found it useful. Website: http://www.bayradio.fm/ Mobile App: https://app.appinstitute.com/yddcc Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BayRadioInSpain Twitter: https://twitter.com/bayradioinspain Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bayradiospain/
View Video Transcript
0:00
and a very busy day at pelet and Heria the Alicante lawyers Pedro is elsewhere
0:06
but igno is with us which is always good good to see you yes good afternoon car how's things well pretty busy as you
0:12
could imagine now is this period of the time is always overwhelming isn't it now
0:17
Pedro dragged away last minute so you're going to have to do things solo today but you're you're an old hand at this no
0:22
problem all no problem it's all um there is the webinar coming up later of course with p and hered with the alakan lawyers
0:30
does all about um if I can get it right and said in the correct way Moody's been schooling me okupas squatters yeah y
0:38
that's correct we're going to talk in this webinar today at 5:30 Spanish time
0:44
well Madrid time um we we talking about the squatters what to do in case this
0:50
happens to you what is a criminal action a civil action what is the best cause of
0:55
action um tips and advice by by Pedro myself and Michael David from Al Maria
1:00
moaka I notic some in insurance companies are actually offering a a service an insurance service if if this
1:07
happens to you if you're property ends up with squatters so I I I guess the legal process might not be
1:13
straightforward in Spain it seems to be quite difficult to get people out well is it's it's hard to answer uh so
1:20
General because we have different type of procedures so to not to go into much
1:26
detail technical you've got the option to do the criminal um then you need to make differences
1:33
whether is your main property or what we call it a home home second home or the
1:41
other option is whether you've got an investment and then and and you could start the action so depending on what
1:47
you're using the property for could depend on how you can manage it legally so I would imagine in most cases the uh
1:53
bay radio listeners would perhaps be those with a second home in Spain for instance right well second home is city
2:00
as well as home obviously it's not an investment property which he goes through a different Road you know but uh
2:07
some people but it's hard to advise so general what will you do in this specific case uh I need to know the
2:14
grounds or the details to say well I would do call the wardia and they will come straight away and then you start a
2:21
criminal action now I I don't think the criminal action will be best because of
2:27
the lengthy procedure you know but sometimes H you need to prove so much
2:35
because in duia proo that means that in case of any doubt always there is a presumption presumption of innocence so
2:43
probably that's going to drag it on too long uh does it take a while to I mean obviously getting things to court takes
2:49
a while anyway doesn't it so you got quite a long gap before you can get to court and as you said then the appeal process appeal process so you could even
2:57
probably I'm not trying to scare people but we could could even be facing probably more than a year okay you know
3:03
that's probably a little bit better than I was thinking to well I was going to say too but you it depends on the appeal depends on that and the other that's
3:10
with regards to the criminal side if you say they broke into my property M this
3:16
is my home or even second home and therefore um I want to denounce them
3:21
through the Guardia through the court to take him out basically and is that the best way to go about that particular
3:27
case perhaps I wouldn't do probably Criminal um but it depends on a lot of factors uh
3:34
it's hard to hard to say specific circumstan specific you know probably criminal I will only recommend on a
3:41
specific cases especially if you're not in a rash you know especially not in a rash but I guess imagine all the time
3:48
that this goes on the people are still there yeah that's correct so you're and you canot unable to use the property um
3:54
legally which some people find a bit confusing but legally you can't just get in there and kick them out yeah yeah
4:00
that's correct that is doing taking Justice by yourself is not allow for
4:05
which you can be prosecuted yeah I know it sounds all crazy because saying but that's that's the way it is exactly the
4:12
same as uh if you are just cutting off the electricity or the water whatever
4:19
that means duress basically and they could denounce you as well because of your ex and pressure um to do something
4:27
before a trial so so hang on so if you've got the water or electricity on
4:32
Direct debit you're therefore paying that and there somebody squatting in your house and you're not allowed to stop it you're not allowed to stop it
4:38
BEC well you if you stop it you could be facing a procedure between from the
4:44
other party from Thea right from theat against you saying that they're acting pressure on you um so
4:53
so yeah but let me just give you a little bit more of light here if you go down on the Civil Right road we we were
5:01
just talking about the criminal if we go civil that there is been a new act that
5:07
was 2018 and basically they try to do like
5:14
recovering possession basically like taking uh the action is about taking possession back from the property and
5:22
that's the fastest way to do it they've got only 5 days so you serve the claim okay that sounds better they've got five
5:29
days to contest if is not consistent their opposition therefore automatically
5:37
the court orders uh an eviction order with that in hand when that
5:42
happens you don't even need to wait if they want to appeal you don't even need you don't even need to wait 20 working
5:49
days until he solid that sentence uh and you can enforce it straight away but how
5:54
do you enforce that who does that the police no we we as lawyers enforce as the cour to enforce that sentence and
6:01
the court through the police gives you an eviction day for the police to go
6:07
there and and take him out now the problem here Carl is that nothing is as
6:12
fast as you and me would like that's the thing but that will be the fastest road
6:17
I will probably recommend now you've got different options as well because I always say in general but this is just
6:25
trying to protect your property if you have an alarm system or even your mobile
6:31
or you know and if it does happen because the police could stop him if
6:36
they find them straight away doing so so it's like infraganti we call it right
6:44
they they are allowed to kick him out straight away but no there is staying there for more than x amount of hours
6:50
you only find out after a while because it could be an argument and the whole the whole case here is discussing
6:55
whether you're right or you're wrong you know it's like uh okay let's have a trial once you have the trial then they will
7:02
be out so I know a number of people do have that they actually have the alarms where you can see or even your mobile on
7:08
the mobile you can see whether are people in the house whatever so that that's that's probably the best point to
7:15
try and catch people I I think that's that's the best investment investment it doesn't matter that needs to be with the
7:20
own company probably you have you buy your own cameras uh lots of options there yeah you have a lot of options but
7:27
that really stops because let's say you've got an alarm and it just calls
7:33
your mobile let's say you don't pay all these kind of alarm system it's just
7:38
your own alarm system and you ring the police cuz that's all they do the the
7:43
the people from the alarms what they do is ring the police and the police goes there so let's say the alarm system is
7:49
bipping and uh you're being informed by the telephone through the it
7:55
system and you ring the police the police goes there and pretty much if
8:00
they normally the police will take r with 15 minutes to go to indeed but it's actually at the time it's happening so
8:07
that can be dealt with immed be immediately so that's why I thing is so important and I'm not promoting here any
8:15
company comp at all what I'm saying is everybody has their own choice and everybody could do their chipest way
8:21
which which is your cameras you buy the cameras and that's you do um and then
8:26
when it start bipping then the plays ared and they kick them out you basically straight away okay that sounds
8:33
pretty good so that's the best way I the problem in general car is that people are on holidays don't know anything uh
8:39
they don't have cameras they don't you know they just and when they just move to their property they're already there talking to igno from alakan lawyers.
8:47
today about ocupas or squatters as we've been hearing this afternoon one way to
8:54
deal with the situation if it's your second home or your second property you
8:59
mentioned at the outset then that uh we might have a situation where squatters are uh in a property that somebody's
9:05
bought to rent um so say an Airbnb or similar company something like that and that's a slightly different situation
9:12
well um well probably this people have paid like a tenant initially and after
9:19
that they stop paying or just uh decide not to leave the property the fact is
9:26
similar but is not your main property is not your house is not your main property
9:32
it's just your investment property the only difference car you will see here
9:37
are you entitled to a victim of course would it probably go through a different process yes because a different type of
9:43
property but the bottom line is that you will evict at the end of the day that
9:49
person anyway now the law in 2018 change to this Clause that is a bit more
9:58
Express we call it Express eviction you know but it's not that fast as we all would like like two days faster than it
10:05
might have been otherwise yeah yeah it's it's not like if somebody stole your car and your police will get it back for you
10:11
it's still property you see so I can't quite see why there's a big difference there but there is obviously there is there is well there is and and I don't
10:18
want to get too much into legal here but the the Constitution uh says that everybody should have a property a a um
10:27
what they call it like a fair property you know the right to have a property and therefore the only objection here
10:34
car that happens the only thing that happens is uh you need to go through a procedure and the procedure is not fast
10:41
enough to your stress you're back to well the stress levels but certainly you're back to something where say perhaps somebody's bought this property
10:47
as as an investment to you know to make to make money so that they can live off that uh uh that that and then there's
10:53
somebody there who's not paying you're you're in a very difficult situation there a difficult situation I agree and
10:58
the only problem I could blame is that the procedures are not fast enough as
11:05
the criminals because if if somebody does a crime which this could be treated as a crime as I said this could go a
11:11
break in is a crime in Spain or just taking over an investment property is a
11:17
crime as well now what's going to happen it's going to take two years probably because you can start appealing and
11:22
appealing and then in the meantime somebody's living in their property so you could choose having the other option
11:29
which is a civil action and the civil action might go much faster both cases
11:34
that we've talked about seems that the Civil way is the better way to go for most cases I agree I agree I mean the
11:40
criminal is an option but you always need to discuss it with your lawyer because we need to know
11:47
where we are I mean are we in the Dena jurisdiction are we in the Chara jurisdiction where are we how far the
11:54
court Go in different cases it's not the same one one Court courtroom than the
12:00
other um and I don't see many benefits on the criminal except principles
12:06
because you say no you took over you are going to be considered a criminal you're going to have a prison sentence uh and
12:13
then you'll have criminal records plus you'll have to pay and then you will re I will repossess eventually because the
12:19
court will order exactly the same but the landlord only wants it back as soon
12:24
as possible and sometimes people are prepared to say let's give up you know let's reach an agreement and
12:30
go these people who are always trying to do this kind of investment on I rent I
12:39
pay the first month and then I stop paying then I do it again with a different landlord then I do it again
12:45
that's considered to be a crime as well because that's fraud the only thing is you need to prove that you're doing it
12:51
that way so I mean the bottom line here call
12:57
is are you going to be able to or get an an eviction order yes now how fast is
13:03
going to be that's difficult to say depending on the case there are ways
13:09
around it as well to try to see what's best cause of action you know uh but
13:16
that's always for them to discuss it with a lawyer and again it'll come back to each particular individual case now
13:22
we do know that there are people who you can engage who aren't lawyers uh to try and help you get your property back and
13:30
they work in various different ways there are the thugs who'll just go in and you know uh or there are the others
13:36
who kind of uh play the squatters at their own game and go in and squat I
13:41
mean either way you end up spending quite a bit of money and it's not quite a legal process correct uh you've got
13:47
the legal way which is hiring the lawyers and going through the courts some people just hire this companies
13:54
that their job is to take them out one way or the other now it is their problem
14:00
if they do any legal things and they are phasing probably some charges if they do
14:06
so but that's their respons the landlord you could end up with being prosecuted for for something that might happen in
14:11
that situation yeah at the at the end of depending on what your contract says which I don't know what they will be
14:17
signing um you could be in the middle of a of a mess a messy situation you know
14:22
say but you'll have to discuss it what are the services if the services are
14:27
just to con Ving or what are they saying you know that's that's that's the legal
14:33
how are they going to do it yeah how are they going to do it but um but yes a lot of people use that as well and the the
14:41
situation that they cannot afford as you said I'm paying for a mortgage um I cannot afford it's like
14:48
people sometimes you know these things happen some people might even speak to their friends and go there and talk and
14:55
things gets hot and you don't know what end up happening you know um sometimes
15:02
nothing happens sometimes they could ring the police the police gets in the middle so it's very subjective call is
15:08
it's very hard to to to tell you exactly because it all depends on facts and
15:15
evidence facts and evidence the if there are evidence of certain things then you could be in trouble so
15:22
yeah the person who's trying to get their property back ultimately even if you go through one of these companies which on the face of it seems
15:27
straightforward and relatively legal you could still end up facing yeah I agree
15:33
you could always have an issue you know uh I've been dealing with different
15:38
cases and and and he's very specific to advise on every single case call of
15:43
course Very it's a different very delicate yeah um but yes probably um I I
15:52
I'm just um the high court in Madrid is the criminal court in the high court in
15:57
Madrid one of the of the guys who is from Alik is with Mago he wrote a book
16:03
about AZ and what to do in this case A thick one it's more for lawyers than for
16:09
probably the lab because it's yeah it's hard to understand you know it's very legal but uh he he's pushing very much
16:16
for a very Express um way of faster way to get
16:22
people out you know like two days or things like that you know because shouldn't be it's just the system it's
16:28
like nowadays if you for example the criminal thing about um domestic
16:34
violence now in Spain is very very fast and I remember the you know the legislation coming up and going through
16:39
and and now things are dealt with very very quickly so you know every but we do know that things take a long time to
16:45
become law uh and take a long time to get through the courts but um something uh akin to what they did with domestic
16:52
violence would be great at the moment it's not in place so it's a very difficult situation if you end up uh
16:58
with squat isn't it um but um I think back to your original statement which
17:03
was do invest in some kind of alarm system uh because if you can catch people in the act and get in contact
17:10
with the police straight away that's got to be the best way to uh correct to deal with people and and when people say well
17:17
is it safe to invest in Spain obviously it it is safe I mean you live here uh I do um you know and probably never had
17:25
problems we did hear quite a bit about squatters a few years back um and that you know that was obviously tainting the
17:32
the what people were thinking about the housing market here in Spain I mean it it seems to have gone gone away a bit
17:38
since 2018 I think you know when there was that slight change in it started with the reposession properties from the
17:45
banks and uh and following on from the uh financial crisis and there were lots
17:50
of empty properties around um which were owned by the Banks and yeah and and they
17:55
started taking over um but that's that's a different that's a different thing you know um
18:02
sometimes people are Professionals of squatter so professional squatters I
18:08
would say uh and this is what is a crime as well you know uh I'm in part of a
18:13
neighborhood and which actually in the WhatsApp group they say oh somebody broke King the important thing another
18:19
good piece of advice called Neighbors MH neighb neighb always watch out and uh
18:25
they call the police straight away and that's like the message we all have if you see something dodgy or something
18:31
they ring your bell and you see because they try you know they they they do shopping and they they go and mark the
18:37
houses and they say oh this one doesn't leave anybody here or they're going to jump or they they've got their own strategies you know so I had on this
18:44
group say oh there is somebody coming on on the area and trying to ring so they ring one day they ring another one so
18:51
they know and they just straight away just jumping they've got a false tency agreement so when the police comes they
18:57
just show the ten it doesn't it's not actually real so he's not so yeah but but you know you cannot kick them out
19:04
because there is a legal dispute yeah but this phrase professional s it's
19:09
quite worrying yeah yeah yeah yeah and uh there are cases like this yeah there are and that's why I'm saying cameras is
19:17
good neighbors are good um and then uh always have a handy
19:23
number to bring the wardia uh because they're very fast very efficient and probably 10 menes there in your
19:30
house um but but the bottom line we are heading into a
19:37
faster like interdict or you know like a we're go heading in the right direction
19:42
and hopefully soon there'll be a quicker process for that yeah I'm hoping on that you know I'm hoping okay we're talking
19:48
to igno from alakan lawyers. at pel and radio this afternoon we've heard some
19:54
bits about the golden Visa scheme uh first of all of course that Spain we're going to cancel it now we understand um
20:01
that Spain's government still isn't sure how it can cancel the golden Visa scheme uh through property investment and this
20:08
is two months ago that they first did that and and so what is it they're not sure about how do they why do they not
20:13
know how to I I think what they're trying to find is a Way Forward I mean they did order h
20:20
a report uh to one of the Ministries to to to understand what impact the golden
20:26
Visa had uh inflating prices which to be honest I don't really think is a bonus I
20:33
mean you buying a property worth more than 500 then that qualifies I don't really think uh is inflating property uh
20:42
because of that because that's you know it's just there is no cases like 490,000
20:47
but because of golden Visa we'll make it 500 uh not not really I don't I don't I
20:53
don't see that as a reason but they are trying to find that option and the only
20:58
thing it could happen here and it's our politic approach here at call is that they remove the requirement of the
21:05
property and you could still get a golden Visa base on investment like
21:10
investment funds for example if you invest in money a million euros not 500
21:16
into Spanish Bond basically umbrellas uh then you qualify now that
21:25
still gets a good part because one you do an investment two hopefully you'll get a return and three you could cancel
21:31
any time and you don't really need to commit yourself on paying transfer tax etc etc I'm trying so actually be a bit
21:37
better for for the people that can afford it that's correct the only problem is is double I mean 500 gets
21:43
into double then you probably would like to buy a property and then you need to have more money aside which is a million
21:52
to be able to do um and I don't even want to talk into call the 2 million debt that that's another option you have
21:58
as well but okay I guess this was all meant to be part of the uh L swellow the
22:04
the law that was going to go through regulating the use and valuation of land and now that's not got the support that
22:10
the government need to be able to get it through so that that's why it's Fallen by the way side the golden Vision scheme
22:15
meanwhile people are still applying and they're still happening quite quickly yeah actually we are having a lot of
22:23
golden Visa applications so we are submitting uh a lot of them a lot of of
22:28
them because whoever made their mind and they want to go for it I always say just go ahead there is no guarantee when the
22:34
law is going to change I mean actually in our website we advise people to say do it quickly or just find a different
22:40
alternative like non-lucrative Visa or any other and um but yet once you have
22:45
all the paperwork C it will only take 20 working days maximum that's amazing isn't it I mean considering some you
22:52
know something in Spain Administration in Spain yeah is one of the fastest things actually um and uh and that still car
23:00
carries on which I don't know when and if they're going to amend their
23:05
requirement for property because would they put it 1 million you
23:12
you were telling me probably Portugal is bringing it back so yeah I mean that's certainly something that we've been
23:17
hearing about so yeah it's a little bit strange isn't it but the amendment to the bill could still happen at some
23:23
point in in Spain which means it might go through but yeah in the meantime um they're still available can still get
23:29
one and uh yeah if you if you can manage it by all means get it sorted out sooner rather than later and of course you guys
23:35
are still dealing with applications right now and that's the reason probably why their approaches on the TV there
23:41
there the program I was going to bring that uh up because you've been on national TV uh recently normally it's Moody following you about but um this
23:48
time it was the national TV cameras how did that come about yeah actually they approach us on a Friday and they said
23:55
they want to do an interview and uh L answer the telephone and we said well
24:01
they needed to go and visit a client's house as well just for sale um so it
24:08
took us well we did quite good it was on a Monday we managed to do everything on a Monday and they do the interviews
24:14
because they try to get all different sides for example who supports that who
24:19
thinks is for money lering because in the in the TV some people were supporting that the golden Visa was no
24:25
good because it doesn't give you good enough time to do all the homework for money lering which to be honest I
24:31
disagree because Banks straight away the first thing they do the first thing they do I do normally every week in my bank
24:38
brings me because my client accounts got some money from clients and they want to know where their money is coming from
24:45
but the client always has available and shows where is that money coming from so I don't really think the reason is is
24:52
money laundering uh I really think it's a politic approach trying to make it
24:58
like bring the message that is inflating the the the prices which is not really the
25:05
case I don't know whether he a little bit more because there were a lot of Russians well we did see that um it was
25:11
a lot of Russians and Chinese that were buying property so you know so there was concern about that um um and perhaps
25:18
that wasn't the intention when they first started the golden Visa scheme but at the moment we've got a lot of Americans and British we do so that's
25:25
what I'm saying is is about nationality I don't think so um I don't know is is
25:32
is a good it's a good question here call uh what what what they're doing what is going to happen but nevertheless if
25:39
anybody's interested to do it I always say just do it soon as possible to
25:44
protect yourself with that application and renewing the golden Visa I don't think will be a problem yeah because
25:49
that would be something that you might worry about if they're going to cancel it what happens once you get one and then it comes to Renewal but uh from
25:56
everything that we've seen and understood that will be still continued when you come to renewals it will be
26:02
honored I I I find it hard to believe that is restrict restrictive uh to
26:07
rights so if you've been granted one right uh you'll carry on having difficult to take it away difficult to
26:13
take it away that's that was like uh applying for the Tia before brexit indeed you know and um actually I'm I'm
26:21
dealing now with a case interesting case the the lawyer of State appealed one of
26:27
our cases for and he I the court in Alan is very much
26:33
in our favor but recently I have a high court now uh discrediting that and
26:38
saying yeah it's all about insurance call is going back to the brexit is do
26:44
you have an insurance policy before brexit so medical insurance you mean yes corre uh and I mean strange that the
26:50
high court would be getting involved in something like this is it not yeah the high cord gets because I you first go to
26:56
a strong area you present paperwork the strong area foreign office says no I'm
27:01
sorry you don't have you never had Insurance in place because but there is not really a law that says you should
27:07
have it as long as you just land uh after 3 months when you apply for your residency you should have your insurance
27:14
it doesn't say it says you should have an insurance when you apply for residency but you could apply within
27:20
three 6 8 like you know a lot of Brits didn't apply to start with and they did it at the very end before brexit M so
27:27
some people didn't do it before the 31st of December 2020 and they submitted
27:34
everything the application after the 2020 so now the lawyer of State well they always did and they always fail but
27:42
now they took it to a higher appeal in in I think it was Valencia Valencia Court administrative court and I just
27:49
got recently this sentence saying
27:55
um pretty much disagreeing with what the alakan court
28:00
says and it is an argument because and then we're going to take it to the high court in Madrid so I'm taking that one
28:06
that particular case was the only one that we had a problem we taking that to
28:12
Madrid because I was I was talking to kmen saying No this canot be right I mean where in the law states that as
28:21
soon as you land after three months you should have a medical insurance and they don't require that to Europeans and
28:28
that's the thing they don't so you it's that gray area where obviously this didn't exist before brexit and now it
28:35
exists because of and maybe all the loopholes weren't weren't nailed down I well I'll tell you something if you're a
28:41
European and and you apply for residen for grin you could do anytime but you're
28:47
already you're entitled to Medical so if you're part of the EU yes well that's a
28:53
different story if you if you already have the the sep card from the EU that covers
28:58
um in in Spain fine but the problem is is about the issue of the date date
29:06
of issue now we never had a problem with Europeans and British British before
29:11
brexit for us are Europeans but what happened after brexit we become part of
29:17
that third country status and and now they're being difficult they're being
29:23
very Square you know and so far so good we did Cover a lot of I mean all the
29:28
sentence but this one that they dare to appeal it in Valencia for some reasons
29:34
you know interpretation of Law and different they say well um you should
29:39
have before brexit the insurance because you were resident before you make and
29:45
and then we say hold on a minute where is it written down it's not written not in the detail and they just interpret it
29:51
called generally so once you get that yeah but at some point somebody's going to have to make the decision the judge is going to have to make the decision
29:56
and then you have the president and then we'll be okay again each time it's a lot
30:02
of these things are because the the things were not in the detail in that particular part of the agreement so each
30:08
part of it every time it comes to it has to be trial through the courts until the point where you get a judge to go no it
30:14
means this and then hopefully that will stick rather than be appealed but difficult one Matthew is difficult
30:20
because um as I said um we we started through
30:26
the Alyan Court M then if the lawyer of State doesn't appeal then we happy and
30:32
we were happy but now for some reason he's taken it further and there's like scoring one goal two goals who won two
30:38
one and then now I'm say no I'm not stopping here I'm going to Madrid because it's just for president you have
30:45
to go yeah and we we still get these clients and these people who unfortunately didn't apply for it and
30:51
now let's say you find somebody who didn't apply for the TA and they want to do it but the insurance is not in place
30:56
CU they will do it now wouldn't they don't have it from before brexit indeed now this another technicality that
31:03
technicality correct all right Matthew thank you very much indeed plenty more always on the website alakan
31:10
lawyers. and uh if there's anything you'd like to know more about then you can get in contact via the website or
31:15
indeed by contacting us here at Bay radio and our usual numbers on the WhatsApp 6844 584 email Studio Bay
31:25
radio.fm you'll be glad to know because uh well Ania has the TV screen behind him Hors
31:30
even at the end of all that the guy who scored the own goal scored at the end of the game in added time so CLA Gula uh is
31:37
now actually a happy bunny again because it finished 22 between Croatia and Albania this afternoon okay thanks very
31:44
much ignio okay we'll see you this afternoon we'll catch up on the webinar that's coming up at what time on on the
31:49
website 5:30 in half an hour we're having online streaming and on the 28th
31:55
call we've got one for an auction of a property in a real case looking forward to that alakan lawyers.
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