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EU ENTRY System Delayed (Again) But It IS Coming. EES, ETIAS and ETA Explained | Brexpats in Spain
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Oct 29, 2024
The European Union's new electronic entry/exit system is on the way (after another slight delay) but how will it affect Spanish residents and non-residents? The UK also has a system already in place that can affect travel there if you're not a British passport holder...even if your partner is. Just ahead of another live Webinar on the subject, Ignacio from @Pellicerheredia and Richard Hill from @brexpatsinspain1582 spoke to Kal about what you need to know. Be sure to Like 👍 this and Subscribe to our channel if you found it useful. You can see more at www.alicantelawyers.es, where you can also watch back some of their previous webinars covering a whole range of topics. Website: http://www.bayradio.fm/ Mobile App: https://app.appinstitute.com/yddcc Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BayRadioInSpain Twitter: https://twitter.com/bayradioinspain Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bayradiospain/
View Video Transcript
0:00
it is a Wednesday and we're joined as usual by igno F and Heredia the alakan
0:06
lawyers. es and also this week our steam guest is Richard Hill from bre Pat Spain
0:12
the president known as good to see you you're back in the studio again I think it was Moody you spoke to last time wasn't it yes it was and quite a long
0:18
time ago it yes um and um there seems to be obviously some Synergy uh with what's
0:23
happening uh as far as the latest developments on the brexit front are concerned and and what IGN and his team
0:30
are doing so hence you're both here together um I suspect though that you
0:36
might want to talk a little bit about misinformation because there is a lot being said by different people in
0:42
different places and the problem is these days it all ends up online and you don't know what's true and what isn't
0:47
what are the worst things that people are getting misguided by say Rich well I I would say it's the new uh border
0:54
controls that are coming in that's one thing the Visas um the people are
1:00
misunderstanding the Visas the um particularly family reunification visa
1:07
and The Nomad Visa they don't understand the ramifications behind them are these
1:12
things that people can just approach on their own and manage to uh get through all the paperwork for themselves signio
1:19
or is it something they really do need a lawyer to help with right this is this is a good question I mean some people
1:25
dare to do themsel and and don't get me wrong you could try to do yourself but but uh is a lot of work a lot of running
1:33
around getting paperwork a lot of questions um I mean it's a very hard job
1:39
to do it all by yourself um especially when the administration doesn't help you
1:45
at all or very little as you know a bit difficult yeah and um yes
1:51
um depending on the kind of uh Visa or
1:56
residency permit or the then um you could try yourself and see how it goes
2:03
but some of them needs to be done here in in the area some sometimes you need to join your home country some Spanish
2:10
consulate are better than the other ones and that's a truth you know we we know because we deal we try to organize
2:17
appointments we try to speak to them uh and dealing with them is a bit of an
2:22
nightmare um so the answer is could you do it yes but probably good luck is I
2:28
was going to ask Richard if you'd actually heard of any um managing to get through the whole thing without any help I suppose not
2:35
really well yes we have yeah yeah as as a as a body as brex Pats at Spain yes
2:41
but perhaps an individual um no what I would say is that if you don't speak the
2:47
language yeah forget it um and if you want the job done
2:53
properly and save yourself money frustration and a lot of Sorrow getting
2:59
next expert to do it mhm because trying to do it yourself whichever the Visa is
3:05
if you don't speak the language is n on Impossible and in the end it's going to cost you a lot of money because you're
3:13
probably going to bounce the application probably going to bounce you're going to have to do it again and you'll get
3:18
refusals whereas if you go to an expert like pelisa and get it done properly the
3:25
first time it's a much better way much more likely to be successful uh we touched on misinformation at the
3:31
beginning there I do know some people who uh were rather concerned because somebody gave them the idea that they
3:37
might need a visa even though they already had a TI and we know that's not right that's completely wrong yeah what
3:44
are the other things that you hear what sort of other things that people misguided by well I'll I'll give you an
3:50
example from last week a gentleman contacted me and said he had to go back
3:56
to England because a relative was Ill um but he thought he would he's a
4:01
resident by the way with a permanent TI in Spain mhm and he said the trouble is
4:06
I think because the illness of my relative my wife is going to have to stay there longer than 90
4:13
days and I and I said but hang on a minute you've got a British passport you're British way yeah MH and people
4:21
but it is easy to get confused yes it is and there are people around who kind of tell you things that ain't right not you
4:27
know not just in the bar but online certainly we also forget that there are some people more than you might expect
4:34
who are not computer literary indeed yeah and and they rely on people like
4:40
you to give them the information and we get confused I have to say moody and I
4:45
regularly putting the news together go and we check with each other and go is this changed is this right you know we
4:50
see a lot of information and we double check it before we put it out because it
4:55
it is confusing you've been at this what since about 2016 was that brex Parts in
5:01
Spain and I guess things have changed quite a bit because at that time we were dealing with the immediate Fallout of
5:07
brexit and people were scrabbling around for a TI or even trying to find their old green residency card which people
5:13
are still bringing to ignio I know they are um and so how have things changed
5:18
are you less busy now I know that you've extended the service now not just to Brits but to also out to other exps we
5:26
have and and yes we are as busy as we were it's different it is now support
5:34
more than about brexit brexit is done and dusted whether we like it we're not going back either are we that's not
5:39
going to happen certainly as we can see the early days of the labor government the first 100 days or so there's been a little bit of talk about you know
5:45
perhaps the arasa scheme possibly but nothing near like what was ever going to
5:51
be before and we we're not we're not we can't just sit back and think oh it's going to get itself sorted out that's
5:56
never going to happen no so we're stuck with what we've got um and we're now more about supporting
6:04
and helping people to live in Spain and to move to Spain under the new systems
6:10
so it's quite a lot of management I would have thought managing because it's not just the one main Spain Facebook
6:16
pages I think you've got an Eastern version as well for people on the Eastern side of Spain so the things
6:21
differ quite a lot then I guess through the different regions we generally talk quite a lot about the regions with ignio
6:27
where we go well they do this here but they do that there is has this been your experience yes all the time um um I a
6:36
prime example is Ander luia and um up here the differences are quite marked
6:43
inheritance for instance is completely different down there yeah actually um
6:48
you were telling me today that dealing with the administration in and Delia
6:54
people I mean um is is it's quite quite unique because you are making a petition
7:01
of a residency which the law is the same in the whole country MH but every different office it's got a different
7:09
approach and sometimes it's lack of experience sometimes um you get these in
7:16
Al Maria answers or or situations which
7:21
you don't get it here and they've got it very clear here and why they don't have it that clear over there you know I
7:26
think and that's why when when we're trying to assist people from from from
7:33
any problem they have and we ask what is the region where you are and where do
7:38
you need to submit it and they say okay albet or Al Maria I say okay that's a
7:43
different question yeah and then I I I put everything in quotes saying this is
7:48
what it is but we need to bear in mind that they're not that familiar or
7:54
they've got a different approach and sometimes you need to Value whether he um worth it resubmitting again even
8:02
though they made a mistake and um and resubmitting probably is easier than
8:09
appealing the decision so that's basically uh what you could end up you
8:15
you really have everything all the documents everything you submit it and they reject it and then here we go is is
8:23
it really worth as we saw with the ti you know um people were being rejected and then having to go back again and
8:30
some people went back three times I'm speaking from personal experience had all the right things in all the right places but possibly not the right person
8:36
at the right time and on my third attempt it finally came through so and this is similar now people still
8:42
experiencing those issues absolutely and and the problem is and I'm not going to
8:47
name groups or types but there are various people that offer their
8:54
services um to do um a TI or to get the resid
9:00
dencia to do these things you've got to know what you're doing and some of the
9:05
people who offer their services don't um they charge a pretty penny for it and
9:11
they charge a pretty penny for it and the trouble is when it goes wrong they charge again to try and put it right and
9:18
we've had experience where people have gone to two or three different
9:25
organizations to get their residencia fail come to us they've already spent a few
9:34
thousand we contact ignatio I mean you and I both were talking about a case in
9:39
point this morning we pass it to ignasio ignasio deals with it it's done you've
9:46
got to know what you're doing with immigration and many of these
9:51
organizations don't and as you said a lot of people who are still attempting to find their way through here aren't
9:57
online and aren't computer literate so therefore you know are are having to go to other people to try and help them
10:02
through that yes there is there is one thing call here uh and and I always um I
10:09
mean the Visas is a very stressful situation and and we talk about
10:15
something very subjective it's personal it's life is enjoying in a country is
10:21
about Freedom being able to stay where you for you know a number of years yeah so it brings a lot of personal stress
10:28
and I don't thing is worth just to go and popping to whatever without having a
10:34
little bit more of security on who you were hiring because unfortunately we get
10:39
all these people that they go to whatever heror or whatever office that
10:44
probably they don't have that much expertise they try there to help their
10:50
way because he's passing paperwork but what you don't realize that they could
10:57
ruin or somebody could ruin that dream you know and then you come
11:02
back to somebody and I say I'm sorry um you need to go back to the UK now
11:07
because you miss the appeal you miss the time you miss everything so the bottom
11:12
line is just end up and try to use people who are professionals you know and this is will be pretty much from
11:19
working together with bre in Spain in the long run we could we've heard all kind of stories didn't we Richard hor
11:27
stories out there and I always recommend I was saying to Richard just try to spend you probably may go here around
11:34
because oh these are cheap you know but be careful when it's when you hear that word is Chip well chip it might be very
11:40
expensive because the whole thing it ruins and it cannot be done so it's a
11:46
bit delicate the the immigration should point out though we M and I were saying at the beginning with Richard we don't
11:53
know of anybody who's been sent back to the UK yet not a Brit certainly no we do know of people that are being fined yeah
12:00
um and I don't know if they've been had a ban put on them returning right but we
12:06
have heard of people who've being fined let's talk about the nitty-gritty then because I know some people are concerned
12:12
those that perhaps don't have a TI yet people that are worried about the 90day situation and the new system which again
12:19
has been delayed uh the EES the entry and exit system uh would be pretty much
12:24
controlling how long they get to spend in Spain well certainly when it's combined with ETS it will right okay and
12:32
that's something else and that is uh the uh European travel information and
12:37
authorization system I'm glad you said that yeah I better keep it ready um so
12:43
there were two things then the entry and exit system and the European travel information and authorization system
12:48
effectively it will mean that people either have to have the right paperwork or have to stick to the 90 days I
12:54
suspect that that's what it's meant to do well yes it also is meant to protect
12:59
Europe from um people they don't want to let in sorry I forget always we're a
13:04
third country now aren't we yeah yeah yeah they don't want to let no um they
13:09
uh it's it's meant to stop criminals and terrorists and to ensure that people
13:15
only stay as long as you said the 90 days of course there's a big migration problem right across Europe we hear about daily um so it's not just Brits
13:22
that these systems are being put in across Europe for no well you know you hear about the boats going across the
13:29
Channel well the same is happening to Italy into Italy yeah so the same thing's happening all right so let's
13:35
let's take them one by one what is the EES European entry system mhm now it
13:42
doesn't this is this is where it gets complicated it does not affect those
13:48
with residencia and those who have a TI and I've got to stress it's got to be the
13:57
plastic tiie yeah if you've got the old green card or the Green
14:02
Sheet uh it's not going to be valid it's not going to be valid and you're going to have to do the
14:08
EES if you've got the ti you're going to be able to avoid doing the EES all right
14:15
now the British Embassy in its Infinite Wisdom originally said there will be
14:23
some delay at airports uh Eurostar and ports in
14:29
initially when this comes in mhm they've altered that statement we're still
14:35
waiting for it to happen course yeah and they've altered the statement already and they say there will now be
14:41
significant dis delays so the answer is ensure you've got a tie so with the EES
14:48
Travelers will scan their passports or normal travel documents uh before they
14:53
go across the border the system takes you name type of travel Document biometric data fingerprints and facial
14:59
images as well as the date and location of their entry and exit Point correct that's E Yeah and coupled with your ti
15:08
MH to show that you are resident in Spain end the story job done thank you
15:14
is nothing that's fine straight through um now comes the
15:20
butt if you come in to Spain that is
15:25
true if you come into France as a Spanish resident you need EES this is because
15:32
that's not your country of Resident correct something that's caught me by surprise cuz you told me about it today and I know you admitted you known that
15:40
either before no it took me by surprise last week when I found out of course so people who regularly travel say from
15:46
Spain the other way as well then if you're going through France then let's it's again you'll need to complete that
15:51
EES process yep if you got res if you've got a TI in Spain because that's not the
15:57
country of your residency you would have thought there would have been I know we're going to say it's common sense but
16:03
you know an agreement within EU countries wouldn't you that okay if you've got a if if you've got the
16:09
document required for residency in one of an EU countries you can travel through the others maybe not stay but um
16:14
that's not the case no yeah we'll see we'll see what happens yeah there's a
16:20
there's much bet Twix and between in this yes remember it's been cancelled nearly five times well yes it keeps
16:27
getting delayed um and this is because various countries haven't quite got everything together yeah um I have to say I was sitting in the
16:33
canaries a few months ago and all of the airports that I went through there we're all ready for it but it seems number of
16:40
places the Netherlands and Germany amongst them aren't quite ready to that is correct to go with this that is
16:45
correct and the problem with it is when it starts every country has got to be on
16:50
board at the same time um now Europe is saying in the next couple of
16:57
months that don't hold your breath okay um right so that's the EES the entry and
17:03
exit system there's one more thing on that sorry yeah sorry yeah um the other catch is that if you are a British
17:11
person married to say a Spanish person the Spanish person is going to
17:17
require an EES go hang on you've got a British passport indeed
17:25
you are married to a Spanish lady mhm she is going to require an
17:32
eses for where no no she no this is ETA I've moved on oh right I was going to
17:37
get to the other one yeah but nothing simple no we'll come to the ETA cuz
17:43
that's going into UK isn't it and we'll come to that in a moment I'm glad yeah no no she and we deal with this every
17:49
day yeah the sort of stuff so let's go to the ETS then um which is the European
17:56
travel information and authorization system so that works with the EES the
18:02
entry and exit system and that's travel authorization for citizens of non countries that don't require a visa to
18:09
enter the EU so entirely electronic it keeps track of passengers passing through the borders yeah yep that's it
18:16
so nothing really for us to worry about if we've got a TI if you got a TI nothing to worry about excellent if you
18:23
haven't and unless you come in to another country via another country or
18:28
travel to another country mind you there's no internal borders in Europe well there are there are in some
18:34
countries increasingly so you know at the moment if you went to France there's no real border um but
18:42
technically if you uh have got your residenc here in Spain you need an Eis
18:48
for France right um but there this isn't a disaster normally you go online you
18:56
apply for it and within minutes you've got it okay
19:02
um sometimes there is a delay uh if for instance you've got a
19:07
criminal record that will be researched okay um and sometimes there is a long
19:13
delay if it's complicated how long does it last once
19:18
one okay so you have to do it each time you no three years and it's only7 okay
19:24
so that's the E which hasn't started yet either no now
19:29
now they were saying this month next month weren't they uh that that was uh the first quarter of uh 2025 that was
19:38
coming in it w right okay um but originally it was meant to be this year oh yeah and and last year yeah um but
19:46
now EES has been delayed it's going to be delayed again it may delay ETS MH but
19:52
ETS doesn't require any more infrastructure okay so it may be that
19:58
they will still will be able to bring it in on time we just don't know okay all right so the point I must make is
20:08
swallow some people think is a derogatory word it isn't it is people who travel between Spain and England
20:15
regular they probably got a house out here mhm a few have been exceeding their 90
20:21
days right we know this they tell us and they're quite proud of getting away with it but they're worried about the yes
20:29
absolutely once EES comes in and particularly once e comes in that's the
20:36
end of that ball game um because it'll be tracked it'll be tracked um in theory
20:42
it's tracked now with a stamp but it relies on a human being being interested in even looking at it m um once well and
20:49
there also I've spoken to a few people who been doing exactly that and the
20:54
stamps are all over the place in the past you're like you're going to find it even um but yeah so do we have any idea about
21:03
how long it's going to be before the EES and the Eis finally coming the British
21:08
Embassy are saying about two months really um I'm not holding my breath no
21:15
not given the amount of delays that we've seen so far absolutely I mean we're up to nearly five delays mhm so
21:22
we've mentioned uh these uh two systems the EES and the ETI as and we did touch
21:31
on something else which is known as ETA uh the ETA the European travel
21:37
authorization and that is for people going into the UK who are not British
21:43
citizens yeah in fact it's electronic travel authorization okay yeah sorry electronic yeah but yeah that's what
21:49
that is and that is the only one of these three that is already in force
21:55
okay but not for everybody so it's coming for Nations at different times perhaps you could run through those for
22:00
you yeah okay so November 23 uh there's a little bit of a conflict
22:06
here by the way okay November 23 it was the Middle East uh and it replaced the
22:13
electronic Visa waiver scheme I see I remember those right like used to get going into the states the form yeah
22:19
that's it um from 22nd of February this year it was extended to Nationals from
22:27
Bahrain Jordan k wa Oman Saudi Arabia and United Arab
22:32
Emirates now 8th of January 25 it um comes from it's eligible to non
22:42
European countries mhm which I would have thought was bwing Jordan KU you
22:47
would have thought I'm guessing those that haven't been mentioned yeah those that haven't been mentioned uh and
22:54
finally and this is the one that we should take note of 2nd of April 20 25
22:59
it applies to European countries which include Spain so this is where we touched on earlier Dan Richard if you're
23:05
a Brit traveling with a Spanish wife for instance into Britain she will need to
23:10
complete the electronic travel authorization correct to the UK yeah now what that means is they'll be given
23:18
permission to enter the UK and be able to spend up to six months in the UK for
23:25
tourism um and study they'll be able to spend up to
23:32
three months in the UK on a creative workers Visa okay what the heck a
23:38
creative workers Vis yeah I I have no no idea and also to Transit through the UK
23:46
okay so if they were going to Heath row and spent a night at Heath row before going onto the states for instance okay
23:53
uh it's valid for two years and can be used for multiple visits to the UK no
24:00
two years and like three years for ETS M um uh I can't remember it's uh I'm just
24:09
trying to look see if I've got the price here I don't think I have I don't either no but it would be around the seven EUR
24:15
mark one would have thought that type of thing okay so it's not complicated if you are
24:23
a British resident uh a British citizen the two groups that it could
24:30
apply to is as we've discussed a spouse who is uh a foreign National Spanish
24:37
French whatever um and also if somebody has taken citizenship in Spain and given
24:46
up their British of course yeah yeah because then it's going up nationality yeah yeah but it's it's not a disaster
24:54
it's not here yet and it's basically trying to get everything in order which
25:00
is which what it is do I need it or does anybody else in the family need it um
25:05
and having it laid out that that clearly which I think you've done quite well e is the first yeah absolutely etes is the
25:12
second and based on the current predicted time scale and I'm saying this
25:18
tongue and cheek uh ETA is the third stage ultimately though would you both
25:25
ignia Richard say that for people who are living in Spain and do not yet have
25:31
a plastic TI really the best thing to do is to get it sorted um there may be
25:37
other issues though people might not be able to find their old big green piece of paper or they may never have had one
25:43
um and there are still people around like that yeah if they if if they can prove that they were here pre- brexit
25:51
and they've lost their sheet they're okay mhm it should it shouldn't be a
25:56
problem I mean it's more about them willing to get the ti okay but it's kind
26:02
of this is going to push people towards that now with the entry and exit system it'll you have to stick to 90 days I
26:08
mean if you're not going to travel anywhere I was telling to Richard and you're staying here and I could
26:13
understand I'm very old you know I'm not able to yes you are actually you know uh
26:19
um I think he was doing an example been like this all the music's been playing
26:24
you but um I I've got some is here call that that they say no I've got the green
26:30
card um she is very old she's in her house she's not going to be you she
26:36
isn't going to be traveling and she stays here she wants to stay here this is home for Spain okay I could take I
26:42
could accept it you know because the hle the hassle is is big for elderly people
26:48
and and going because you need to go you actually have to physically show up so if you physically cannot attend it is an
26:54
Ima to to to go through all this process how difficult is it for somebody who say
27:00
perhaps never got the green residency still haven't sorted out a TI but you
27:05
know does have property here I haven't se Trav green one but probably you have
27:12
yeah we are we had one well I can tell you we had one yeah who is uh under the
27:22
radar um I'm not going to go into too much of course not um but we know they exist and I know radar didn't even know
27:29
brexit had happen wow um and has you missed that yeah and has no paperwork
27:35
okay you get everything um and how how difficult is it to help somebody like that Richard um they asked us for help
27:43
and I said go back to England okay well the the way I would say in these respects here Richard they could do AAL
27:51
probably if they if they have ARO ARO familiar is a social TI to Spain
27:57
so let's say you've been living here for more than 3 years you've been on the padron as well and um you never had
28:03
anything you never had a residen here The Only Way Forward is but you said
28:09
been on the padron which perhaps people probably they haven't been there exactly would not have been well then they don't
28:14
exist to the administration and if they don't exist they only exist probably in
28:20
the UK because they've got their own passport what about Spanish bank account maybe does that help
28:26
no well I'm sure sure it's been blocked I'm sure it's been blocked if you don't provide
28:32
the residency nowadays because in the old days you could have it but they push and push and push and they close the
28:38
bank accounts cuz I know client of mine that didn't provide ni or residency and
28:43
they block your account so um those people who have nothing I agree the only
28:51
ways to go back to your home country and start all over again uh from here to do
28:56
AO but you need minimum things to do you had to have been like on say for instance the padron so proof of your
29:03
time in Spain in this particular case nothing no padron no no Spanish bank
29:09
account nothing so pretty much is like a tourist who came here and never left I
29:14
mean you you you do deal though regularly still with people trying to get TI yeah on a daily basis you know
29:21
still that many um I mean in general terms we get the people who wants to
29:27
solve problems mhm um because if they don't what would they come to ask you know I mean at the
29:32
end of the day um you start telling them the requirements you know people know that
29:40
if you're going to get it legalized you need to provide the documents now if they don't have the documents I I didn't
29:46
have probably didn't have a quiry about like Richard but probably Richard as an
29:52
association they just there to ask you all these questions to us they don't because if you don't have the documents
29:59
no you you have no case they they're very worried about authority of course and authoritative figures such as
30:06
lawyers well I know that some people are concerned about the fact that if they go onto the system in Spain that they're
30:12
going to be chased for tax you know that's yeah that's that's worried about
30:18
but one of the Prime reasons we hear is people say look Spain said with a
30:24
declaratory system that we don't have to change our
30:29
cards they they did say it Spain said you can keep your cards no it's not
30:35
mandatory what we say to them is yes Spain said that Europe didn't and in
30:40
this case Europe is um super European entry and exit system ultimately it's
30:46
not the Spanish European entry and exit system yeah absolutely so we say to them
30:51
that's superseded Spain so um you need to do it well I'm not doing it because
30:57
Spain they don't have to okay but we we know that those people ultimately when these things come in these electronic
31:03
systems they will experience you asked about numbers just now yeah we think
31:09
probably a thousand is are still on the old system the Green Card yeah or the
31:16
green piece of paper the embassy thinks two okay 2,000 Spain reckons 4,000 plus really
31:27
okay with a t I've always heard that estimate actually of people that's the kind of um who's on the poundon who
31:33
isn't and there's generally it's 4,000 perhaps more that perhaps aren't um okay
31:38
we're going to have to wrap it up uh Richard what would you say to anybody who's not dealt with this so far but
31:44
really need to now get a tie yeah it's as simple as that you can help ignio can
31:50
help y so bre Pats in Spain uh bre spats in Spain international on the uh
31:56
Facebook page there's an easn version of the uh Facebook page as well um Richard
32:01
and the team always willing to help there and of course igno alakan lawyers. uh don't despair um you know if
32:10
there's a way um you know between the two you guys uh you're going to find it yeah we do yeah and uh if they want to
32:17
send their questions now we're going to just start doing the webinar indeed um and we're going to cover all these
32:23
topics so they could send their questions um in half an hour actually
32:28
5 the webinar on alakan lawyers. it's live uh live answers to
32:34
questions there and uh Richard and igno will be able to answer for you can I
32:39
just say one more thing indeed please do it now get your ti because 2025 is
32:46
coming up and there's going to be a lot of people who got in pre- brexit at the
32:53
end of the brexit period they're going to be going for their
32:59
so there'll be another backlog like we saw before absolutely so better to get in right away
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