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Former Strategic Communication Advisor To UKRAINE | Cormac Smith with Kal Sutherland on BayRadio
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Oct 29, 2024
Former Strategic Communication Advisor To UKRAINE | Cormac Smith with Kal Sutherland on BayRadio: ''In no war has the information sphere been more important and critical than this one.'' Be sure to Like 👍 this and Subscribe to our channel if you found this video useful or informative. Website: http://www.bayradio.fm/ Mobile App: https://app.appinstitute.com/yddcc Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BayRadioInSpain Twitter: https://twitter.com/bayradioinspain Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bayradiospain/
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0:00
Bay radio's continuing coverage of Russia's war on Ukraine and it's been a few weeks normally every couple of weeks
0:06
we catch up with Cormac Smith but with both of us being away in recent times it's been more than that actually Cormac
0:13
back with us and how was your time away Cormac hey Carl hello how are you
0:20
yes myself and my partner went to um a uh I went to Marrakech for a week which was which was pleasant it was the first
0:28
time I was in the country it was the first time I was in Marrakech and let's just say
0:33
um we travel very well together and most of the holiday we had a very nice time
0:38
we just relaxed and let's kind of leave it at that um one probably will not be um rushing
0:44
back to um Morocco anytime soon okay I think we will that's that's just about enough I
0:50
suppose given that I have heard the back story so whilst we've been away what
0:55
have we seen what's changed the the situation in back mood doesn't really
1:01
seem to have changed there's just a lot of attrition on both sides and um there
1:06
are words from Ukraine that they're using this to take out as many Russian
1:11
troops as they can whilst they get ready for a new offensive yeah look I mean
1:17
three things I think um Carl I'm sorry it's yeah it's great to join you again three things I think um I would pull out
1:24
since we last spoke um back moot by all accounts is absolute
1:30
hell on Earth um the um president zielinski said a few
1:35
days go they are they he claims that the ukrainians are
1:40
killing over 500 Russian troops every day now it is clear that the ukrainians
1:46
are taking um losses but um nowhere near the level
1:51
of um the Russian law says um we know that the Wagner organization has has
1:58
taken very very significant losses and we believe also that many of the Russian
2:06
forces that have been put into back mode are conscripts who are ill-equipped and
2:12
ill-trained and badly LED so there was talk a couple of weeks ago of
2:19
um of Ukrainian withdrawal and there was an ultimatum from um from perozing the the head of the
2:28
Wagner group that they should withdraw while they still could Ukraine have made it very clear for the time being that
2:34
they are not withdrawing and in fact we believe that they have been reinforcing
2:39
their positions in back mode my reading of it and listening to you know various
2:45
military commentators is that um you know Ukraine is using this to be
2:52
to to bleed the Russian army and um
2:58
um degrade them very very significantly um there may be I would Hazard a guess
3:06
there may be a strategic withdrawal by the Ukrainian forces at some time in the
3:12
near future but certainly that will be at a time of their choosing and not at a time of Legos choosing or any of the
3:20
other um Russian Generals in the map clearly I think the ukrainians have their eye on a
3:26
on a on a on a counter-offensive later
3:31
um in the spring into the summer um and back moved which of course
3:38
everybody seems to agree is a very very little strategic relevance
3:44
um but of course Russia are desperate for a victory of some kind
3:50
um and yeah I think we conclude that um that um Ukraine is playing this
3:56
exactly as they want to at the moment although that doesn't have a horrible cause indeed but it doesn't perhaps play
4:02
into the support from the US who are concerned that uh this sort of thing is
4:08
just using up ammunition it's dragging things out it's using up money the US
4:13
have been talking about using their gold reserves and that's the other side of this as well from the Russian point of
4:19
view where we're not quite sure where you have Jenny pagosian sits at the moment perhaps he's not in as much favor
4:25
as Putin as he was and there are thoughts that that grinding fight May well actually weaken pregosian to the
4:33
point that Putin would rather have him other than these position of strength that he was in in recent months
4:39
and we've heard a lot of reports that pagosian is um complaining about lack of
4:46
support from the Kremlin lack of ammunition for his troops and so forth so while it's very very hard to Define
4:53
what is going on in the Kremlin inner circles um it would appear that all is not well
5:01
but you know I must emphasize certainly from my point of view this is my
5:07
impression and it is a guess back to your point on the um you know there have
5:13
there has been some concern recently that maybe they um the the the the
5:18
um the the the unrelenting support that had been um pledged by President Biden
5:25
only a few weeks ago when he visited Kiev um that there might be cracks appearing
5:31
there I think we should remember when we you know when this talk of gold reserves and so forth and what Ukraine is
5:38
enabling the United States and NATO and the West in particular to do is to
5:43
the Russian army for not much more than five percent of their Total Defense budget and without the need to
5:52
commit any of their own um boots to the ground imagine what
5:58
Ukraine could do if it was given 10 of the defense budget of the United States
6:04
and the other NATO allies which of course would include
6:09
um the Jets which we still hear talk of but Ukraine still has not received and
6:16
the longer range artillery the attack comes in particular which are going to
6:21
be um absolutely critical in any forthcoming offensive to give Ukraine
6:27
the ability to um to hit um
6:32
um Russian logistic and Military targets deep inside Crimea and in fact even deep
6:40
behind um Russia's on borders because it is these bases of course that they are both
6:47
supplying their armed forces from and launching these um genocidal rocket
6:53
attacks which we have seen um resume in recent days against civilian targets but
7:00
that's a worry isn't it really is that not one of Putin's red lines were the
7:06
ukrainians to use these long-range weapons inside Russia
7:12
I'm not sure that it is we have already seen um a number of um Ukrainian
7:19
um attacks inside Russia using missiles that they have using their own missiles
7:25
and using Special Forces um you know Putin has Putin has
7:32
suggested many red lines one of the red lines was the end of last summer into the Autumn when he officially annexed
7:39
the four oblasts of um her son zaparicha
7:45
um luhansk and Donetsk and it declared that they were forever Russia I think it
7:50
was about a a less than a week or two after that that the city of her son was
7:56
recaptured now clearly the signal that Putin was sending out at the time was this plays into the um to the Russian um
8:06
uh um a nuclear doctrine that they can use nuclear weapons if Russian territory is
8:14
attacked I really don't I think that Putin is doing the absolute worst that
8:21
he can against Ukraine he has rattled the nuclear cyber too many times it's a
8:29
little bit like the boy who called wolf now can we be certain what this you know
8:35
what this criminal is actually capable of no we can't again I rely on listening
8:44
to various military analysts and at the end of the day I will give my own opinion
8:50
um I think we have got to assume that NATO and the Americans will have made it
8:57
absolutely clear to him of course we will never know but I think we have to
9:02
assume that it has been made absolutely clear to Putin that should he use
9:07
tactical nuclear weapons on the Ukrainian soil that the consequences for
9:15
him will be absolutely disastrous in terms of the conventional retaliation
9:22
that would be felt from American and NATO forces there is also the
9:27
complication that um using tactical nuclear weapons is not
9:35
um is not an immediate answer in itself and interestingly there was a recent
9:41
poll about two or three weeks ago where I think it was 95 or 93
9:48
um couple of percentage points off let's go for 95 of the Ukrainian people
9:53
indicated that they would fight on even if nuclear weapons were used Now The
9:59
Next Step Up in the nuclear saber is for tactical nukes and that of course is the
10:04
is the um that of course is the the Armageddon scenario do we really think
10:10
that Putin who ultimately is interested only in his own position and his wealth
10:16
either that Putin would would do something which would be the end of Russia or whether he would be allowed do
10:24
it by his generals I refer to um retired General Wesley Clarke who
10:30
said in a meeting in Kiev back in or back last summer back in June I think it was when he said very very clearly that
10:37
we must not be intimidated by Putin's nuclear threats certainly recent polls
10:45
have shown that the Ukrainian people refused to be intimidated by Putin's
10:50
nuclear threats I really think that we need to take our lead from the Ukrainian people
10:56
what about the fact that the blowing up of the pipelines have
11:02
resurfaced in recent days certainly in America blame for that being put on the
11:10
ukrainians and as you said any of these attacks that have taken place you know in Crimea for instance the bridge the
11:16
you know other attacks that are taken inside Russia the ukrainians never claim that it was them but the in America
11:23
there are people pushing for proof or or saying that um this was definitely
11:29
something to do with ukrainians if not directly the sponsorship of zelenski's
11:34
government well I've seen um I've seen those suggestions and it's
11:40
very murky isn't it um the one thing that was clear was there was no suggestion that whoever was
11:46
responsible had any link to zelenski's government um but I've seen suggestions I haven't
11:52
seen any proof provided whatsoever and I
11:57
you know I I'm I you know I question what what benefit
12:04
what benefit the blowing up of that pipeline would be to Ukraine and who
12:10
would benefit most from it um so I think at the moment we simply
12:16
don't have the evidence and you know Cal I come back through one of my favorite
12:21
points when we're dealing with a you know no in no war has the information
12:28
sphere being more important and critical than this one and of course we are we
12:34
are fighting against the country Russia who lie on an industrial scale they lie
12:39
as part of their hybrid War toolbox so when we're in that situation I think
12:46
we need to take everything with a pinch of salt and we need to
12:52
um on the Allied side and certainly in you know in our commentating we need to
12:58
try and adopt some sort of a moral High ground and we need to try and base any
13:06
um any assertions that we would make or conclusions that we might come to on the
13:13
basis of evidence and you know to my to my knowledge there is there is nothing
13:19
that announces that amounts to convincing evidence that would suggest
13:25
that it is um ukrainians who are responsible for this nor indeed there seem to be
13:33
um and substantial evidence to suggest who else would have done it so it's a gray area I'm not sure that um I'm not
13:42
sure that we achieve anything by debating it much further at the time being to be honest
13:49
Cormac continuing to look at where things are with the war in Ukraine when
13:55
we're talking just before about the things that maybe concern uh people in
14:01
the United States another thing that's come up is this plan to fight for Crimea of course Russian forces have been there
14:07
for nearly a decade so they they see that as becoming a bit of a problem further down the line the US certainly
14:14
and how long that might take and the resources that it might use up and president zielinski has always said
14:20
anything that happens in the war includes Crimea
14:25
well you know I've said before people in the west simply do not understand how
14:33
existential crime Crimea is to Ukraine
14:38
and the fact that that the Ukrainian people are very very clear that you know Crimea is part of Ukraine which it is in
14:47
1991 when when Ukraine voted every single oblast for independence from
14:53
Russia There Was You Know including Crimea in fact the majority in Crimea
14:58
was I think 56 voted back in 91 for Independence the attempted annexation in
15:06
in 2014 was was completely illegal um the the Sham referendum has been um
15:15
nobody in the International Community in the west um recognizes the validity
15:22
um of that and I'm afraid you know again we are
15:28
into the area of appeasement and just you know uh wondering what um and
15:35
Putin's red lines would be I come back to the point Putin is already doing his
15:41
absolute worst against Ukraine um it is for the ukrainians to decide if
15:50
they want to take back Crimea um I would refer to General Ben Hodges
15:55
the former um the former supreme commander of American ground forces in
16:00
Europe and you know Ben is consistently clear when he talks about it that Crimea
16:07
must be a Target if not if not immediately retaking Crimea because
16:12
geographically it is a very difficult Target because it's uh the entrance into
16:18
it is a very very narrow Isthmus so it is it's both easy to defend and very
16:23
hard to attack um but um if it's not going to be taken back initially I think you've um given
16:31
given the correct where with all the longer range weapons I think um it is
16:37
certainly within the ukrainian's ability to isolate Crimea and that would be a
16:42
very very substantial um and physical and moral blow to the
16:48
Russian Federation and to and to and Putin so I think it's for the ukrainians
16:54
to decide my understanding is you know zelenski said before Christmas that this
16:59
War began with Crimea with the illegal annexation in 2014 and he said it must
17:05
end with Crimea so you know we need to give the ukrainians a little bit more
17:10
respect and you know if you want me to which I've done before say you know why
17:16
Ukraine matters and why we must support Ukraine to the hilt then are quite
17:21
happily do that quite apart from the fact that that there is genocide being
17:27
committed but we need to give the ukrainians a bit more respect um what American would accept part of
17:35
their country been illegally annexed and then to be told by a foreign power that
17:40
they did not have the right to reclaim it these people need to see the see
17:45
Russia and the world through Ukrainian eyes and they need to live a Day in Ukrainian shoes
17:51
yeah I think we'll focus on those moral obligations to support Ukraine reference
17:56
genocide towards the end and also a look at peace talks I'm quite aware that we hadn't even mentioned that as yet and
18:02
people might be listening thinking well why aren't you talking about Solutions we certainly will but I'm still trying
18:07
to concentrate on you know where the war is going and what's happening at the moment and we've highlighted the
18:14
immediate issues that have been happening in Ukraine but perhaps we should be rather concerned about what's
18:19
happening around Ukraine as well we talked about Crimea but the issues in Moldova where police say they foiled a
18:27
plot by groups of russian-backed actors who are trained to cause Mass unrest during protests against the country's
18:33
new pro-western government and of course the other issues that we've been seeing
18:39
in Georgia where demonstrations against what was called a Russian law basically
18:44
a gagging law were dropped um for the time being certainly following demonstrations there the
18:52
ukrainians who were supporting those that were protesting in Georgia that the
18:59
Prime Minister Iraqi Gara and Bash really of the dream party who were in power there who are pro-russian uh has
19:05
basically told the ukrainians to stay out of their business effectively and
19:11
this was after the support from Ukraine for the protesters he said that the comments were a direct intervention in
19:17
domestic politics saying that they should take care of themselves in their country and he'll take care of his this
19:23
sort of destabilization plays into Russia's hands doesn't it well you know there's a lot of um a lot of ukrainians
19:30
have been drawing parallels in recent days between the protests in um Tbilisi
19:36
and um the um and and the and the maidan uprising between 2013 and 2014. I would
19:45
suggest that there are also um strong parallels between Gary you know and Gary
19:50
bashville the prime minister of Ukraine and the corrupt Kremlin puppet
19:56
Yanukovych at the time of um who was the president that the Ukrainian people rose
20:02
up against which you know it's very very interesting I mean we do we do accept
20:08
now that that Gary bashfili and his dream party are effectively Kremlin
20:14
puppets that seems to be the case but there was very interesting there was a very very
20:20
Sinister tweet put out by the Russian Embassy in Crimea on Friday I think it
20:26
was and it was effectively a warning to the
20:32
um it was a warning to the Georgian people to think very carefully about
20:37
what they were doing in their protests and to think about what happened in a
20:43
similar protest in in cave in Ukraine back in 2013-14 and to look at where
20:49
that ended now if we need to be reminded that this that this is a country that
20:58
spits on the face of our rules-based order and the whole principle that might does
21:05
not make right and that Sovereign independent Sovereign countries are just that that they think
21:12
they can issue a a barely Veiled Threat to the Georgian people
21:20
that if they don't that if they don't desist from their from their current
21:27
activities against their government that they may well end up with the same fate
21:32
that has befallen Ukraine this is something the world needs to really
21:37
listen very very carefully too this is very very Sinister indeed the
21:44
tweet from the Russian MFA in Crimea protests against foreign agents in
21:51
inverted commas Bill erupted into Blissey results in demands for the
21:56
resignation of the government we recommend to the Georgian people to
22:02
recall a similar situation in Ukraine in 2014 and what it final finally led to
22:10
hashtag think twice we need to wake up in the west cow and
22:18
realize that this is a this is a despotic criminal nation that thinks it
22:26
has the right to address the people of a neighboring country in such terms and to
22:33
make such a thinly Veiled Threat 80 of the Georgian people of course are in favor of closer ties with the West
22:40
I'm joining the EU which again is very very similar to
22:46
um to the um you know percentage of people in fact I'm going to have a debate with somebody later on remember
22:52
the reason the reason for the maidan the reason for the maidan Revolution was not
22:59
as some useful idiots um would um and parrot the Kremlin line
23:04
that it was a U.S backed coup um the yanakovich had had run for
23:11
president in 2010 on a platform of taking Ukraine into closer
23:17
um integration with the west and the European Union in particular there was a meeting in Vilnius in um
23:25
in Vilnius in late 2013 where um
23:30
where there was supposed to be the signing of an association agreement with
23:36
the EU at the last moment Yanukovych decided not to sign that and signaled
23:43
his intention to sign a um an agreement to bring Ukraine back into the Russian
23:50
Homeland orbit instead what um resulted was a um student a small student protest
23:57
which lasted for a week at the end of that week on orders from Moscow
24:06
sent out the barracud the riot police who brutally beat the students within
24:11
days they were an estimated over a million people spontaneously on the
24:17
streets of cave the one thing and I spoke to hundreds of people who were under my Dan for almost 100 days the one
24:25
thing everybody told me about Ukrainian and foreigners who lived there was the one thing you do not do in Ukraine you
24:31
do not touch our children so there are huge there are huge um parallels between
24:38
what is happening in um Georgia today and in Ukraine back in 2013 14. this is
24:45
the will of the people versus the will of a of a Kremlin puppet head of
24:52
government and in Moldova there is a pro-european government but of course these deep rise
24:58
in the cost of living is what's put people out on the streets and it's a it's just a hotbed isn't it for those uh
25:04
infiltrators uh who allegedly were promised ten thousand dollars to organize Mass disorder uh yesterday uh
25:11
it did again you know it all of this just destabilizing influence in and around Ukraine can only make things
25:18
worse yes and you know Moldova is probably Europe's poorest country and situations
25:26
like that where the cost of living Rises um is um you know um makes ground
25:32
absolutely fertile um um for this sort of upset but once
25:39
again what I remind people we need we need to understand
25:44
the nature of Russia's hybrid Warfare strategy and this was a strategy that
25:51
was largely unveiled on the world in 2014 with the illegal annexation of Crimea and it uses a mixture of meddling
26:01
and into of meddling in elections of using ajon provocateur to stir up
26:07
trouble as you have just as you have just mentioned assassination attempts
26:12
assassinations we saw the assassination temps on British soil for example in Salisbury in 2018 in fact I worked very
26:20
closely with both the Ukrainian government and then our cabinet office in London on that for a number of months
26:26
during the summer um and you know we obviously disinformation and propaganda and out of
26:34
Moldova Cormac we have heard in recent days that the security services in the transnistria region who are basically
26:42
Russian controlled and known as a breakaway region have accused the Ukraine of conspiring to murder
26:49
officials they're including the leader Vadim krasneleski this is absolutely
26:55
typical Russian hybrid Warfare disinformation tactics it's designed to
27:02
sow the vision and to sow confusion and to so dissent within aside within a
27:11
within a society we all need to be more alive we all need to be more alive to
27:18
this and this just brings this just brings into sharper Focus um the reason why for
27:25
um you know for wider European security and indeed Global Security Russia
27:31
absolutely must be stopped and defeated in Ukraine
27:36
all right Cormac let's take a look at those points that I promise we'd get to
27:42
the moral obligation to support Ukraine amid the genocide that has been taking
27:48
place but look it's pure and simple
27:53
um the um Russia's war on Ukraine is genocidal it is genocidal
27:59
um by all five tests of the um of the European of the of the United Nations
28:06
Charter on genocide and this is in a this is in a democratic European country
28:13
in 2023. so I suggest that that alone is a moral
28:19
obligation on us if we if we value our way of life and if we stand by the
28:27
values which we Proclaim to hold this is something that we simply cannot allow
28:32
that we simply cannot allow to happen um
28:37
the second point the second point of the second point of course is that
28:43
um you know this is a wolf that will come to our door and we know very very well because they have told us that you
28:51
know Russia despises or if we what we call the
28:56
rules-based order and the rules-based order came out of the rubble of World War II in 1945 and although it may be
29:04
imperfect and although the big powers like America may have made many mistakes over the last 75 or 80 years it has
29:12
given us the greatest period of peace and prosperity and security that the
29:18
world has ever known and the rules-based order can be boiled down to probably one
29:24
phrase might does not make right you do not have the right to Simply
29:32
um and roll into another country take over that country and dictate how that
29:37
other country runs its Affairs Russia rejects this they are rejecting this by
29:45
their actions in in Ukraine and it is very very clear that their Ambitions to
29:54
one put the Russian Empire back together and two to re-establish themselves as
30:00
what they see a major world power will not end with Ukraine but clearly there
30:08
can be no Russian Empire without Ukraine and Ukraine's being used by Russia to
30:14
kind of achieve its AIMS in this respect isn't it the uh they're determined that this is a what we would call a Tipping
30:21
Point for working against the Western dominated World Order and the idea is
30:28
that if Victory comes in Ukraine there'll be a domino effect act around the world leading to the decline of the
30:33
West and international relations well you know we have China I think it's
30:40
fair to say waiting in the wings um I always refer to Sergey lavrov who
30:46
went to the Munich security conference in 2017 and he talked about the coming asunder of the rules-based order or the
30:53
post-war order same thing but he also hailed the rise of what he called the
30:59
post West era now absolutely Central to that post-west
31:04
era would be Russia the major power to that they the the major power to come in
31:10
behind Russia of course would be China and if China decides to come all in
31:15
behind Russia I would suggest that we are all in very very big trouble indeed
31:21
I don't think China has made that decision yet we know actually the leader
31:26
is meet is going next week as nijijing ping is due to go to Russia he has also said actually whilst we've been talking
31:32
that he will speak with Vladimir zielinski for the first time since the start of the war that's likely to happen virtually but after his visit to Moscow
31:40
we understand well um let's um let's not assume what
31:45
that um um conversation is going to entail but let's um let's watch it very
31:51
carefully but to finish what I was saying you know we know that Iran North Korea and Syria are already in Russia's
31:59
pocket so if you look at a post-west era a rules-based order to to be replaced by
32:07
Russia China Iran North Korea and Syria with a whole raft of African and other
32:15
Southern countries um like India Brazil many countries of course the African continent sitting on
32:22
the fence and only waiting for the opportunity to throw their lot in with
32:28
Russia um we should think what um we should think with that post-west era might look
32:35
like for World security and for our future way of life is there concern in in your eyes that
32:42
China will start supplying arms to Russia in the same way that Iran has
32:49
my own view is it depends on the strength of Western resolve
32:56
and if we um if the resolve is sufficiently strong in the west and from
33:01
the Americans in particular that we will that we will back Ukraine till the very
33:08
end and we will give Ukraine every means that they need and we're still not giving the Jets and we're still not
33:15
giving the long-range artillery and there's still a question mark over how long we can sustain
33:22
the ammunition supplies that um that Ukraine is expanding and needs because I
33:29
we still do not see evidence that our Industries are being put on a war footing which I'm afraid is what is
33:37
probably necessary if Russia is going to be ultimately defeated in Ukraine so I
33:45
think my own view is geopolitically that things are on a knife edge and you and
33:52
China is watching this very very closely and China will get involved if and when
33:58
they see it in their long-term interest and we know that China plays a very long
34:05
game we started out by saying the current situation in the world doesn't seem to be gaining much traction with
34:11
the situation in Bach mutant we have again of course seen more bombings in
34:17
recent days after that big attack last week from Russia but otherwise we weren't quite sure where we were and
34:22
where it was going but behind all of that with the things that we've been talking about it does seem that Russia
34:28
might be quite happy with its current situation it seems to perhaps be gaining the ground elsewhere that it wants to
34:34
are they the um I I'm not sure the the the recent estimates they have lost
34:40
close on 160 000 um soldiers yeah away from the
34:46
battlefield I was talking about the things that we've been talking about about its influence in places like Moldova and Georgia and the
34:52
destabilization in other areas away from the battlefield I'm not sure that we can separate the two and maybe the fact that
34:59
that things are going so badly on the battlefield and they are clearly losing
35:04
the war on the ground is forcing them to um to focus more on um on activities
35:13
within Moldova and activities within with um within Georgia but I think this
35:20
is a warning to us in the west that um these are balls that we should not take our eye off either we didn't really
35:26
haven't as yet spoken about any possible peace talks or peace initiatives we have
35:31
heard from the US we have heard from UK prime minister Rishi sunak that things will end at the negotiating table I know
35:39
it's something you're you've got some quite strong views about that there is no likelihood of Peace torches things stand are there no I don't see that
35:45
there is because Ukraine's um foreign Ukraine's bottom line for peace is that
35:53
Russia withdraws over 90 percent of the Ukrainian people are against
35:59
um um any giving land for peace and there are two reasons for that one in
36:05
every single settlement that the Ukrainian Army has liberated they have
36:10
found the same pattern of atrocities of rapes of tortures of murders of
36:16
targeting of the local population that were found in the early days after that the battle for Kiev Was Won in Butcher
36:24
and European and hostile and those other towns north of caves so to so to
36:30
um so to give up any land for peace would be consigning the Ukrainian people
36:37
um to that sort of a hell is the first thing the second point is it is very
36:42
very clear that um that Russia's aim in any negotiation
36:47
would be to hold would would be to hold as as much land as they have gained and
36:55
simply use that that would that would significantly
37:00
um Ukraine as a viable economic entity but it would also
37:08
um we are certain be used by Russia as a base to rebuild from and to attack
37:14
Ukraine in the future we have no we have no reason to believe that Putin's
37:21
original War aims have changed and Putin's original War aims were to take
37:26
over all of Ukraine to decapitate and to de-ukranize Ukraine so to effectively
37:33
wipe out Ukrainian identity you know Putin and his regime do not believe that
37:42
Ukraine has a right to exist they believe that it's part of Russia and
37:48
they have proven both by their rhetoric and by their actions that they are
37:54
willing to commit genocide in Ukraine to
37:59
um to wipe out that Ukrainian identity so on that basis
38:05
um you know we need to take our lead from the ukrainians as to as to when we
38:11
go for peace talks and um what um and terms those peace talks are conducted on
38:18
and I've got to say even if Vladimir zelenski wanted to sit down for peace
38:24
negotiations tomorrow which might um involve the giving up of of some land I don't
38:32
believe the Ukrainian people would allow him all right come back we're gonna have to leave it there uh the Plenty that we've
38:38
covered today and I could still obviously talk about a lot more but we do appreciate your time and good luck
38:44
with your interview later today I know you're going to have another battle on your hands but it'll probably be a bit
38:49
of a stronger one than you've had from me at Cormac Smith former strategic communication advisor to Ukraine thank you very much
38:55
Sal thank you very much and once again thank you for um making the time available to um discuss this very
39:03
important topic and thank you to all your other colleagues at Bay radio
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