Up next in 10
Dougie Mack talks to..... Ava Cherry
27K views
Oct 29, 2024
Dougie talks to Ava Cherry, legendary backing singer with David Bowie and later Luther Vandross. We talk Bowie, Luther and the struggles for new emerging talent versus AI.
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foreign
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[Music]
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hello honey how are you
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hello Charlie how's Chicago
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oh it's good I mean actually we've been
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having uh spring-like weather the last
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week so that makes me happy it's
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freezing here you would not believe when
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I moved to Spain in my first winter I
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thought that's gonna be all right it's
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Spain it never gets cold it does get
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cold there too yeah terrible
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jacket weather
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well actually jacket scarf Overcoat the
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whole thing well yeah you're gonna
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remember here the buildings aren't made
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for uh keeping heat in it kind of keeps
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keeping you out
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where do you live in Spain
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it's near Valencia okay so maybe that's
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cooler than Madrid right away guys I
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love Spain
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yeah so what you've been up to
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ah just everything and my record's doing
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real good around you know I love love
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love love love that song we've been
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playing it to death oh I'm so happy
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thank you so much thank you yeah uh
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that's happening and I've been getting
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the next song prepared so that'll be out
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in March
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oh we got an album on the horizon
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well I don't know I mean I'm sort of
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happy we're doing singles because I'm
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working with different people right I'm
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trying not to you know it's hard when
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you're dealing with people in an album
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situation sometimes singles are
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sometimes easier to do but who who knows
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I don't I can't tell you what's going to
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happen with that and you'll just you'll
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just keep continuing to get good music
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though I mean the single is great if the
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future stuff's anything go by is that
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right you're working with um the guys
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from cool million yes yes Rob hurts the
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Rob Parts produced and uh
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um David Tobin wrote the song Love It I
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was playing one a while ago by with
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James D train Williams oh yeah Jimmy you
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know Jimmy D train
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um yes I know we're looking forward to
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some more new stuff as well but back to
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the beginning how did it all start for
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you you've you've probably lost this a
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million times but I have Doogie I have
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darling I have it as a million times but
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well you know um I think I started like
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a lot of people do when I was when I was
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a kid I I was admiring you know all the
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artists at the time Ariza and
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um Motown stuff and and all that and uh
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I I just I I used to there was there's a
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place here in in Chicago called the
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Regal Theater but it used to be the
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Regal Theater and it was the most
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incredible place it was uh on on King
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Drive and it was every every other
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Sunday they had
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a roster of like 15 artists who are the
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top artists that that ever were you know
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James Brown Marvin Gaye reads Franklin
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Michael Jackson everybody was on the
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same bill in that one night and all of
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us kids after church on Sundays we go
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running down there so you could get like
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front row seats and everything you know
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and it was fantastic and I was just just
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sit there in my seat with my mouth open
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watching all the great perform it was
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amazing what I've noticed is that jazz
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is coming up even more Jazz has always
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been fantastic Jazz has always been
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great but it's it's remained the same
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over years because my dad was a jazz
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musician but now it seems like r b pop
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artists are incorporating Jazz into
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their songs now and jet and it's and
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it's really opening up it's really good
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because I mean on this with the sacks I
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mean I got so many jazz people now that
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love me because of the saxophone
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is another one that you've probably been
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asked probably more than a million times
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what was it like working with Bowie
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of course you would ask that because
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you've been Brit mate yeah well I I I
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queued up to see him when I was 12 years
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old queued up all night to get a ticket
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wow okay my mum and dad my mum and dad
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queued with us overnight they took turns
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it's great
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that's funny well
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it was an experience like no I'll do my
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friend I'm as you can probably imagine
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I when I got with him I was only like
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just getting ready to make 18 years old
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and I was like
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totally in awe of this man I mean when I
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met him he wasn't really big yet in
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America he wasn't he was just taking off
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started to really get big in in in
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Europe and then his first tour was when
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I met him here in America in New York
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and he was playing Radio City and uh and
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I'd listened to his album about two
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months before he arrived my man my
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manager said listen to this new guy from
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England he's going to be big I think I
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mean he's absolutely right and I
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listened to it and we had moonage day
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dream on it and stuff like that and I
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was like oh my God I love this music I
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love I love talking about star man and
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all that and then and then of course I
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just fell in love with the record and
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fell in love with him and then two
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months later a Stevie Wonder party that
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I helped to put on he was there and
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that's when we met where did he go from
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there what happened after that because
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you were on Young Americans right yes
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yes I mean mean after that we
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um we were still in Europe and we were
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there for a while doing things different
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shows Hammer Smith you know 1984 show
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those kind of things and he was also you
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know trying to groom me for something
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the astronauts it was uh he'd formed a
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group called Ava cherry and the
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astronauts and did some production on on
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that and then then he decided that he
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wanted to be a soul man so he started
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listening to Aretha and Marvin Gaye and
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Michael Jackson The Isley Brothers on
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and he was like well Ava where do we go
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what do we do I want to put a Soul band
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together
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and I said we got to go to New York I
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said because if we go to the Apollo
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we'll see some of the best acts and some
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of the best bands so that's exactly what
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we did and uh and then on to Sigma sound
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went to Sigma sounds onto Sigma sound
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and then that's where we were introduced
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to Luther Vandross
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Carl Stoudemire brought him to the
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studio
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yeah I don't remember the story about
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um what was it um Luther vandross's
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Funky Music getting changed to
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um well yeah that was the nation I mean
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I have to say David it was called Funky
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Music to begin with it was the wrote
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and then David changed it's a
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Fascination and then there was a dispute
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about the publishing in Luther one
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Luther one though cool excellent awesome
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I know I wish he was still with us
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Luther I wish he was to uh
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what would he be doing now do you think
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what would Luther be doing now
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oh man he'd be on tour right now we'd be
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on tour or something he he'd be you know
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giving us some more beautiful tones of
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his voice and
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I mean Luther would be
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um just just creating like he always did
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and and just giving us what we're all
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missing so much with Luther Vandross
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which was that beautiful tone and and
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and and making us feel love you know I
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remember seeing your name on the sleeve
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notes of give me the reason and I
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spotted the Bowie Luther connection then
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you taught extensively with Luther I did
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like I did like five four or five tours
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with loser I saw you at Wembley Arena
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back in 87 what a show he couldn't have
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picked a better back line me and Lucy
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Fisher and Kevin Owens on the stage do
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you know that was two and a half hours
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of Goosebumps
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I know listen I'm going to tell you
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something live at Wembley was one of our
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most incredible shows a sign of the
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obvious vocal talents you're an actor
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too oh yeah I'm I'm an actor as well I
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mean I do you know a voice over and you
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know on camera things yeah I mean
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actually I'm I'm hoping and praying with
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Smurfette we're getting ready to work on
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a film
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um he's probably like in um April
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something like that and I'm I'm very
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much looking forward to it cool
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excellent keep us posted on that of
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course I will of course I will
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and um your genres go from sort of
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started out disco Skylee with with um it
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was um Robert stigwood's uh label wasn't
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it RSO all right so yeah well it was I
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was actually on Capital signed by Bobby
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Columbia who was with Blood Sweat and
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Tears he was the head of enr at Capital
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at the time and then I and but I was
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signed really to Curtis Mayfield's label
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which was curtain Curtis produced a song
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uh on my first album called love is good
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news and you never loved me
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so
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um but anyway somehow it ended up being
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tied up with capital and RSO I don't I
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don't know how that all happened but it
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did and
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um you know it was it was a good record
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streetcar streetcar but and it was a
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record ahead of its time when you know
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because I mean you know I I really
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believe and I and I mean this in all
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humility that I was always a little bit
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ahead of myself where people were like
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what what do we put what genre do we put
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this artist in and they were always
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asking that question I mean there were
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times when the streetcar record came out
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that they were asking so we're saying
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things like you know she reminds me of
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Donna Summers and then his little Grace
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Jones and then there's a little this
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person ever so I was just a mixed bag at
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the time and I mean I would leave but
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they saw all these different artists
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within me I guess so
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um you know that was uh my my situation
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with um
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Streetcar Named Desire was was was good
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but they just you know of course record
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companies mess up things and
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I mean they spent so much money on
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recording the record and so much money
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on this that and the other but not on
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what a lot of record companies don't do
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is spend the money on promotion that's
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where you need money and I I didn't
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realize it for many years after that
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well you know like you spent 300 000 on
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a record and then you don't you spend
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the same amount promoting it well
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talking of a mixed bag I was listening
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to a quite a mixed bag this morning
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while I was uh well I was jumping about
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in the shower to I am a laser
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from back in the day and that album
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actually it was funny listening to that
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album I could really hear the Bowie
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influence there well yeah he produced it
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yeah and um Ainsley Dunbar as well well
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Easley oh yeah all the great musicians
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that played with us
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um David has the most wonderful
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musicians but that was a that was a
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great record but the point was is that
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it was only a demo it was not a finished
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product we had just begun it and then
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all of a sudden sort of some weird stuff
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started to happen with David's
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management and him feeling that his
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money was being stolen and then we had
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to stop the project right and then David
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said well I said well what are we going
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to do was the Masters and he goes oh
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don't worry I'm going to put him
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somewhere safe where my manager won't
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get to them but of course he did and
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then he released unfinished
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uh demos of that album right
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it's funny because after that because
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that was kind of like almost almost
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psychedelic Rock almost but it it then
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went to the album
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um picture me which I was also listening
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to this morning what a great album yeah
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oh yeah I love Victor me you like a
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picture
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did you enjoy that it was it was
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typically what was it 1987 wasn't it yes
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yeah and it's got that
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almost Electro Boogie whole thing about
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it which
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lovely satisfied and and yeah and stuff
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like that and yeah there were a lot of I
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really loved that record so much it's
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one of my favorite recordings of myself
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of all of your albums do you have a
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favorite
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or is it like having children you're not
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allowed to have a favorite they're all
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they're all good no I I know I just told
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you that was my favorite album ah that
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was the one I thought it might be
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somehow I thought it might be yeah that
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was my favorite album uh because it was
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just so um
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I I don't know it just was you know I
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mean my I I did love what I did with um
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Curtis Mayfield but that but picture me
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was my favorite
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so over the years the industry has
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changed almost
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unrecognizable these days so what what
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do you make of all the changes over the
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years
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some of it I don't like
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because uh there's so many I mean there
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used to be a time you would watch the
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Grammys the American Music Awards
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and I I have the utmost respect people
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for everyone out there who makes it and
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whatever but some of the music when I
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see these award shows and things I don't
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even know who the artists are until the
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award still comes on and I find people
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on the internet going who was that who
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was that where'd that song come from the
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the industry seems to make the music
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make the music successful that they want
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a lot not everybody like the American
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Music Awards I think is your is the the
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in is more your peers but the Grammys
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are I mean the Grammys are your peers
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the American Music Awards are like your
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the the actual audiences that buy your
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records and stuff
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um but I I you know I I I'm hopeful I I
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still love RMB I still love rock you
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know I still you know uh I still look I
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love hip-hop
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what do you reckon of the biggest
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challenges for new artists now
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well there's a lot of challenges for
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them if we for you new artists out there
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and one of them is is getting a record
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deal I mean there's so many ways that
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you can do it on your own independently
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you know which is is good because you
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can keep your money when you make it
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um but it's it's it's difficult because
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you still need people sometimes labels
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if you if you're brand new you might
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need a label unless you've got a really
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hit record to to push you out there and
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the good thing about being on a label
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especially if it's a small label is that
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and if they do the right thing is if
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they promote you if they you know
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promote you the radio if they if they do
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the different things for you but I think
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that you know you have to have I don't
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care what you do you have to have people
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helping you but um there's just a lot a
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lot more challenges in in the old days
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they would groom you people would sign
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you to a label whatever and they would
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groom you but now people aren't even
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groomed anymore you know use this they
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just put your record out there and it's
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not even you know I I don't know I have
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a lot of mixed feelings I I'm hoping and
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praying that we go into a new era with
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music and that it is more it is
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respected in the way that I remember it
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when I was starting out in the business
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have you got a tick tock account
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they keep trying to get me to get one
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I got one but I rarely use it I can't be
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bothered no I don't really have a tick
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tock account but I do look at it and and
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some of it's interesting I mean some
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records have become some tunes have
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become massive hits on the back of it I
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know I noticed that I noticed that so
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and so believe me I won't ignore it
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totally for that reason after that yeah
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it's I guess it's the future uh speaking
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future for speaking of this yeah now
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what about AI making music and writing
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songs for people oh I love that I'm I'm
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well I'm a songwriter I mean like the
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next thing that I release in March is
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going to become so delicious
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it's I rode and and co-produced myself
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and and after that I'm good at
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everything after that is going to be
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again because this is really the song
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that you have now Love Shine so bright
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is really the first song I have not had
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writing on in a long time
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but that's that's that's come from you
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from the heart
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um you know so your stuff that you do
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now but when I when I say AI artificial
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intelligence is now making music for
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people and uh well it's going that way
17:29
and writing songs for people so surely
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and Mary spender I don't know if you
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know her on YouTube She searched great
17:36
musician and um she
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um mentioned I saw something today she
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said well it's fine but
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there's going to be a lot of legal
17:47
issues if you release a song that's been
17:49
written by AI who owns the copyright is
17:52
it the software company or is it the
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person that generated it in the first
17:57
place it's gonna get crazy really is
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yeah see that's that whole thing it's
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really like she said is it gets sticky
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so you have to be very very careful when
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you do something and then you know you
18:09
contributed but they take the credit so
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we're always dealing with that as as
18:14
artists are always dealing with that
18:15
issue so you have to be very careful and
18:18
have some real legal advice on that I
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think there's uh they certainly as far
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as that's concerned I think there's
18:24
going to be a lot of uh interesting
18:26
legal battles and maybe one or two
18:29
equally interesting loopholes as well oh
18:32
yes of course I I just that's what I
18:34
just said you you've got to make sure
18:35
you have an attorney that knows
18:37
entertainment law so that you can you
18:40
don't get messed up because you can
18:42
really get messed up here and have
18:44
written or co-written beautiful songs
18:47
and then never get credit or never get
18:49
paid believe me we can be so careful
18:52
guys make sure you have an entertainment
18:55
law attorney when you're doing deals
18:59
otherwise
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let's get on to music audio quality
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what do you think of this stuff I mean I
19:08
feel sorry for the kids today that that
19:10
are being brought up on YouTube and and
19:13
Spotify because that's not full
19:15
frequency recording it's compressed so
19:20
much that they're not getting the full
19:22
experience that we would have got oh
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Monty I mean I I agree with you I think
19:27
some of it sounds so generic and
19:30
um
19:31
tinny and prepared to you know the way
19:35
that we that we did music from from back
19:39
then you know and you know people like
19:41
um that I still admire that tries to
19:44
keep it there I mean even though he's an
19:46
old school artist too sting yeah because
19:48
he's not old school but middle
19:52
um I was listening to a recording that
19:54
he did um that um how fragile we are he
19:58
he was on stage and Stevie Wonder came
20:00
up and sang it with him I remember oh my
20:03
God
20:07
sting was looking at him like did you
20:09
write this song and did I write this
20:11
song because it sounds like you wrote it
20:13
I mean just songs like that songs like
20:18
that beautiful beautiful yeah speaking
20:22
of um audio and format
20:24
are you a new school girl do you go I
20:28
mean are you talking are we talking um
20:30
streaming here or are you are you still
20:33
vinyl CD
20:35
what what are you listening well I'm
20:37
sort of in I'm sort of in the middle
20:39
streaming because that's what's supposed
20:41
to happen
20:42
that they're saying that's what's
20:44
supposed to happen anyway I'm I'm I'm
20:46
I'm still kind of a CD girl and I Still
20:49
Love CDs and and things like that but of
20:53
course in this age that we're in if
20:55
you're an old school artist you have to
20:57
get you have to reinvent yourself so if
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they're telling you streaming is the it
21:03
it you you must be streaming too then
21:05
you must be because you have to you have
21:07
to otherwise the only reason that you
21:10
might have to conform there is that you
21:11
may not get your record played so you
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know you gotta you gotta go wherever you
21:15
can to get that record played that's
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what it is totally agree totally agree
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but um I'm I'm lucky enough I've still
21:23
got done you can probably see them down
21:25
there that's just a bit of my vinyl
21:27
there from back in the day
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I have a lot of vinyl too I have a whole
21:32
um okay never get rid of your vinyl I'm
21:35
not no I have all my old records Cherry
21:39
Cherry vinyl and all that stuff really
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and
21:43
um that that was just something I love
21:45
to watch DJ spin on vinyl I love that I
21:49
love it so much that's how I started it
21:51
was always vinyl when I started it
21:53
wasn't even 12 inches there was only
21:56
seven inches when I started
21:58
wow yes yes that's old yeah
22:02
but also the good thing about having CDs
22:06
is they're smaller and you can keep them
22:09
I've got about two trunk loads in the
22:11
other room in the spare room and
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um I'll always keep them because
22:16
the thing is with streaming services I
22:19
don't know if you you know about this
22:21
that you know you might go to listen to
22:23
something one week following week it's
22:25
disappeared for whatever reason it could
22:28
be right legal publishing reason
22:30
whatever or the artist saying no I'm
22:33
pulling that whatever but it doesn't
22:35
help the consumer you know the uh
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exactly so always keep your CDs because
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you know if you want to hear it if it's
22:44
not where you normally stream it yeah oh
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no I have it's in the box I have
22:48
listened I have so many CDs that I can't
22:51
even find places to put them in my house
22:56
so I love CDs and and I've also gone
22:59
back to writing where I did a song that
23:03
wasn't released and I did it on CD and
23:06
then I was able to go back to it on the
23:08
CD yeah there you go yeah always a good
23:11
reason to and not only that it's full
23:13
quality it's it's like you know there's
23:16
no compression it's just as it would as
23:19
it should be so that's good you've been
23:23
doing this for ages music
23:25
how do you stay motivated
23:27
well
23:30
I I don't I don't know I mean because
23:33
with covet happened it kind of it could
23:36
have put cold water and everybody being
23:37
out being able to perform and everything
23:39
but I I just love music so much and I
23:43
know that that that they're doing music
23:45
and being creative a creative musician
23:49
is is the way to stay happy I mean
23:51
without music I would die I just would
23:53
die I just would lay down and die if I
23:55
couldn't do it and so I just I actually
23:58
did more writing while I well cope it
24:01
happened it kind of helped me to to just
24:03
you know have the time on my hands to be
24:05
able to do that and and also
24:08
um my fans that loved me they just keep
24:11
saying give us more give us more give us
24:13
more so I just want to keep giving them
24:15
more and I feel as though my calling
24:18
right now is to give people happiness
24:21
and through the music as I always did
24:24
anyway a long Maya continue please thank
24:28
you darling thank you so much yeah
24:32
oh yeah yeah so delicious you make sure
24:37
we get a copy of bay radio of course you
24:39
will we'll have that on straight away
24:41
straight away all right
24:43
thank you so much thank you Spain I love
24:46
Spain I wish I could be in Spain right
24:48
now
24:49
drinking certain sangria huh one more
24:53
tiny thing here that I've always wanted
24:55
to ask you if you could go back in time
24:58
what advice would you give to your
25:01
younger self
25:03
if I could go back in time I would say
25:09
that
25:10
have that I would have been more
25:12
conscious of the business end of this of
25:15
this of this music business I would have
25:18
been more conscious because I wasn't I
25:20
was so just wanting to do it and so just
25:22
wanting to be creative that I didn't
25:24
take care of the business and sometimes
25:27
I lost because I didn't do that so if I
25:30
could go back in time I would definitely
25:32
that's why I'm telling you all do it get
25:35
make sure your business is together even
25:37
though you're creative you've got to do
25:39
business as well and also I would say
25:43
you know when I was with David you know
25:46
sometimes I would want to work with
25:47
other artists other producers and he was
25:49
like no no
25:51
and and and I didn't insist and I wish I
25:54
had insisted right ah so listen kids you
25:58
kids out there in YouTube land listen
26:01
yeah Eva Cherry said it like it is
26:04
take care of the business end yourself
26:06
or apparently be aware of it they are be
26:09
aware of it yes and then you'll be cool
26:11
you have your creative and you have your
26:14
money
26:15
love you all thank you just a quick
26:19
mention for your book yes it came out
26:22
last year
26:23
yes are there Glitters please get my
26:26
book it's on Amazon it it just it just
26:29
what it does it documents me from when I
26:31
started out in this business and and
26:33
when I was how close I am to my family
26:36
and how much I love my mama and how much
26:39
I she encouraged me so much she's such a
26:42
focal point in this book and then it
26:44
just takes you on a journey with me
26:46
until now so please All That Glitters
26:49
available now from Amazon they off good
26:52
voice over there for you
26:55
thank you avo's been so lovely talking
26:58
to you thanks so much for joining us and
27:00
uh give my love to Chicago I will may I
27:04
will I will son
27:08
all right my darling hopefully at some
27:11
point we could do this again and have a
27:12
catch up we will I'll give you I'll keep
27:14
you posted on everything just sending
27:16
love and peace to everybody God bless
27:19
you God bless you darling
27:22
foreign
27:25
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27:34
foreign
27:35
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