Up next in 10
Following Kemi Badenoch's speech at the Conservative Party Conference, James O'Brien asks: Which voters are the Tories actually trying to win over?
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0:00
It's three minutes after ten and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC, where there is still a degree of unhappiness regarding Cami Batenock's speech yesterday
0:11
because it meant that I couldn't share with you my top tips for getting rid of fruit flies
0:16
Hopefully I will remember to do that today. Mystery hour on the way at 12 as well. So there are at least two moments, one rather longer than the other, of light relief on the horizon
0:25
I sometimes worry that I'm a little bit more Anorak-y than you are
0:30
And then I sort of read some of your messages And I realise that I can't generalise
0:36
You know But also I realise that you might be more Anorak-y than I am
0:40
And of course if I am anorak-y about something Then, you know, my job is to make you interested in it
0:46
More interested in it than you thought you might be I don't think I could rise to that challenge yesterday
0:51
As we listened to the speech But I do think that there was one element of it that we should celebrate a heck of a lot more. We didn't
0:59
really have time to do so yesterday. And we will do that shortly. But I was reading one
1:04
piece this morning that suggested not long ago, there was quite a strong case to be made
1:10
that the next generation of British politics would be dominated by the Liberal Democrats
1:14
and Reform UK, as if the two party system, the traditional Labour conservative stranglehold
1:23
really, upon British democracy for pretty much 100 years, was breakable. And I kind of wondered yesterday, watching Cammie Bader
1:36
and I appreciate you probably didn't stick around for the speech, or if you did, you probably share my view that it was a great big nothing burger, really
1:45
with a couple of weird moments, very, very weird moments, and great news for anybody set to inherit a house worth more than a million pounds
1:56
I'm still going over the detail of it in my head. If you are set to inherit a house worth 10 million pounds
2:03
Cammy Badernaut just gave you a massive tax cut. About 20% of working age adults in this country live in poverty
2:09
But if you're about to inhabit a house worth 10 million pounds
2:13
Cammy Badernaut just ensured that none of that will go back into the Treasury. You can keep it all
2:18
And if you are about to inherit a house worth more than 10 million pounds, then I suspect you were probably more likely to vote Conservative than Labour in the first place
2:30
I don't know. We had some wonderful calls yesterday who recognised, I don't know, the patriotic power of inheritance tax, the sort of moral purity of people who end their lives on top of the pile
2:46
contributing a fair old chunk of change to ensure that everybody below them in the pile
2:51
can have some improvements to their existence. But I mean, I wake up on mornings like this
3:00
I said this yesterday. It's a little bit Groundhog Day. I wake up on mornings like this
3:05
and I wonder whether I've gone mad. Not just the speech. You don't have to have seen the speech
3:11
to feel what I'm feeling or to contribute to the conversation that I'm keen to have
3:17
you see what I see, right? You live in the world that I inhabit
3:22
You breathe the air that I breathe. And the current leader of the Conservative Party
3:26
is an absolute liability. And she is hilariously bad. And yet I open up and I know, I know
3:34
I know they're the newspapers that told us Brexit was going to be brilliant. I know they are the newspapers that told us
3:39
Boris Johnson was going to be brilliant. I know it's the same commentators that told us
3:43
Liz Truss was an economic genius, that Donald Trump would be a doughty and decent ally to this country I know I know I know better than anybody I written books about it But it never stops being shocking does it when they embark upon their next project
3:59
What are they going to do next? They're going to pretend that Kimi Badenock is the real deal
4:06
Have they learned nothing from giving us trusts and giving us Johnson, giving us governments
4:13
that put people like, oh, dear, oh, dear. so I think it's healthy
4:18
do you think it's healthy? is it healthy to still think that maybe you're the one that's gone mad
4:25
rather than everybody else? it's healthy right? it's all well right? even if you are the only one
4:32
you've got to hold on to the even if you are the only one Kemi's family home pledge
4:36
it's 4.7% of estates that are eligible for inheritance tax a front page of the Daily Mail
4:43
makes everybody think it's them 4.7% of estates currently eligible for it
4:51
And Kemi's looked at the economic situation in this country and said to himself, I'll tell you who I really feel sorry for
4:56
I really feel sorry for people who are inheriting multi-million pound properties
5:01
Who really needs help in this country at the moment? I'll tell you who really needs help in this country at the moment
5:06
People poised to inherit multi-million pound properties. The top story from that speech yesterday
5:13
I know that they're trying to dress it up as good news for you and good news for me
5:17
But unless you are poised to inherit one day a multi... I'm going to say that a lot today, aren't I
5:22
I can tell, by the way, my mouth is shaping around the words. A multi-million pound property
5:29
Unless you are one of the vanishingly small number of people in this country
5:34
And remember, it's an estate. So there'll be more than one person inheriting per estate
5:39
Some estates, there'll be nobody inheriting. other estates, there might be 10 people, grandchildren, children
5:46
Unless you are poised to inherit a multi-million pound property, this has nothing to do with you
5:57
I mean, literally nothing to do with you. If the family home is worth a million quid or less
6:02
and mum and dad were still together when one of them passed away, or half a million quid if they're on their own
6:08
but you get two then, you know, Mum and Dad could both be leaving you different properties
6:12
Unless you're in that extraordinarily rarified situation, the announcement had absolutely nothing to do with you
6:26
And I think people don't actually know what's happening. I think it's important that I admit that to you sometimes
6:34
The number of messages I got yesterday from people saying, I had no idea that I was never going to be eligible for this
6:40
In a million years, I thought it was on all houses, or I thought it was on much, much lower thresholds
6:45
or I thought I was going to be affected by it. I'm still getting those messages now. Here's one from Nathan
6:52
Why are you banging on about multi-million pound houses? That's completely misleading and not what she said
6:57
Mate, I promise you, that's all she said. The threshold at the moment for a couple that are still together
7:03
when the first one passes away is a million pounds. So the only people affected by this are people set to inherit
7:11
either properties worth in excess of a million pounds, or if you're talking about one parent
7:16
because they've split up, properties worth in excess of half a million pounds. And yet you've swallowed it hook, line and sinker
7:22
What do you think, Nathan? Do you think it's about you, this? You think that a 10 million pound inheritance
7:29
they're the people that really need protecting? So listen, we're not till we did inheritance tax yesterday
7:34
and it was a brilliant phone-in, actually, if you missed it. Go back to it. Although I think Tom Swalbrick may have been slightly misrepresented
7:39
by one caller. I complimented him after the programme on the charming caller who had said Tom Swalbrick had changed my mind about inheritance tax I checked in with Tom Sawbrick after the show yesterday and he had very different views on inheritance tax from the ones that my caller had attributed to him But I don
7:55
know, make of that what you will. The mystery for me, and listen, I want to tell you something that
8:03
I don't know whether it will surprise you or not. I want a healthy conservative party in this
8:10
country. I want a healthy conservative party. I quite like, and I know that there are reasons to
8:15
attack this position, but I quite like our two-party system. I can see the appeal
8:25
of electoral reform, but listen, nobody's perfect. I'm a bit of a stick in the mud
8:29
Sometimes I subscribe a little bit too heartily to the, if it ain't broke, don't fix it school of
8:34
thought. I can see myself shifting on electoral reform. We had a wonderful call, didn't we
8:38
from a young man when we talked about it. I've temporarily forgotten his name
8:42
but I said I was going to give him a name check every time we talked about electoral reform because he was really bringing it alive for me
8:48
He was really bringing it, a sense of urgency to the table
8:53
And yet it's still not landed with me yet. I've got a feeling that it will if it becomes more alive politically
9:00
But it is reassuring, I think, that the two parties, And most things, most traditional things are a bit reassuring is a good word to use
9:12
And so I want a party of opposition that is not populist or racist or any of those things
9:20
I want a party of opposition that is competent. There was one moment of the speech yesterday where the leader of the opposition was absolutely brilliant
9:35
And I'm going to play it to you because I think this is important, but I don't know how important it is
9:40
Just have a listen to this. This was unexpected and objectively magnificent
9:45
Once we dig into it, it may lose some of its sheen. But at first glance or at first here, this was ace
9:52
I don't want to live in a country run by people who threaten journalists, who call veterans traitors and debate whether my mixed race children are English
10:02
I don't want to explain to my son when we're watching our brilliant England team play football
10:09
that some people don't think our black players are English. I remember back in the day when Ian Wright and John Barnes were playing
10:17
nobody was questioning whether they were English. We certainly didn't have sitting MPs questioning whether they were English
10:25
We must not let these people take us backwards. That is not the country we are
10:29
reform MPs are openly questioning people's identity. They are not like us. We are not
10:35
like them. We are different. We are the Conservative Party. Quarter past ten is the time. I liked that. And it got a standing ovation, which is why I'm
10:46
confused today. And that's why the question that I've got for you is, to whom is she appealing
10:51
And by that, I mean, who is she hoping to appeal to? And also, perhaps, who is she actually
10:57
appealing to that that is I think a fascinating question and it's underpinned I mean she was a
11:04
little bit wrong about the football but that's I mean a forgivable John Barnes and Ian Wright
11:09
would have experienced terrible terrible racism and the far right at the time were always
11:14
banging on about people of colour not not able to be English but she's right to point out it's
11:18
moved a helico a lot closer to the mainstream in recent years and particularly with so other
11:22
brave and hideous interventions in recent months. I've tried in the past to conduct this
11:28
conversation, to confine this conversation to callers who are actually the answer to the question
11:34
So you know is it you that she is appealing to Give me a ring if you a disaffected conservative And is Kemi Bader not going to bring you back into the fold
11:45
But I can't lie. I think that's a pretty tough ask. And it's not necessarily as interesting as I used to think it was
11:55
The thing that's really interesting is the overview of exactly who is she talking to. 03456060973
12:07
if it's you then I'll probably in the first thing I'll probably put you to the front of the queue but
12:13
I think I'm going mad on days like today because I follow politics quite closely
12:20
I watch someone who is pretty rubbish but thinks that they are
12:24
brilliant and the evidence of them being pretty rubbish is absolutely immense you know
12:29
it's a quick google the nonsense about gaffs, the nonsense about McDonald's, the nonsense about Northern Ireland, the nonsense
12:36
about maternity leave, the nonsense about pretty much anything she's ever turned her
12:39
attention to. And yet the engines that brought you Brexit, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, austerity
12:46
they've bet their house on it now. They've kind of had to, as Farage's troubles mount
12:52
They're going all in on it. And I am, what's the word that I want
12:57
what's the word that I want? I'm kind of conscious of how effective it can be
13:05
when those engines, the people and the institutions that brought you Brexit, Boris Johnson
13:13
austerity, love for Donald Trump, Liz Truss, the same people, the same institutions
13:21
the same media figures, the same media outlets, they're going to try and do it again
13:26
They're going to try and persuade you to get behind this project, despite the fact that you can see what I can see
13:32
And I think, as the inventor of the phrase, content for the con, compassion for the con, I think that it might work
13:39
Because I've seen it work five times in the last ten years, starting with Brexit and then hitting all those other marks as well
13:45
And it's bonkers. But that's Britain. That's Brexit Britain. So who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler
13:55
No, sorry, mental glitch. Who do you think Cammie Baden-Ock is appealing to
14:01
And there's two elements to that, trying to appeal to and actually appealing to
14:07
Because I don't know. The only people I can come up with would be people who perhaps are facing a two-horse race between right-wing parties in their home at the next general election
14:22
and they would possibly be tempted not to vote for either of them
14:27
but in order to keep one of them out, they might vote for the other. And that is why I think that the racism comments that she made were pretty strong
14:35
I hope she meant them, because I remember her defending Honest Bob Jenrick after he was complaining about there being too many black faces in Birmingham
14:42
and I think it's one of her MPs who's been chatting absolute nonsense about no-go zones in Luton
14:48
But I hope it's true. 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need
14:55
Who is Kemi Baden-Ock's target audience? Target audience. And I'll take a sort of nice opportunity to get stuck into a conversation here
15:07
because I'll take anything on this. And as I say, as I stress, I want..
15:13
What's the word that I want? Not proper politics, but strong politics
15:18
It's good politics. We've had 10 years of nuttiness. Thought Keir Starmer was going to bring an end to it
15:24
He didn't really. Let's just have a look at who we think Kami Bader-Nock is appealing to
15:29
and whether it will work
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