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Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland Andrew Bowie joins Lewis Goodall to discuss the future landscape of British politics following a turbulent week for the Labour Party after Wes Streeting resigned as Health Secretary, and a seat became available for Andy Burnham to stand as a way back into Westminster for the Mayor of Greater Manchester. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #lewisgoodall #ukpolitics #labourparty #toryparty #conservatives #conservativeparty #kemibadenoch #politics #debate #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Well, it's easy to forget, given that so much of the politics seems to be happening within the parliamentary Labour Party
0:06
But there are plenty of other parties in Parliament. And of course, the Conservatives reeling from their own, or ought to be reeling perhaps
0:13
reeling from their own poor set of election results that we saw, what, just over a week ago
0:18
Andrew Bowie is the Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland in Quebec, not Shadow Cabinet
0:22
So grateful for you for joining us this morning, Andrew. Look, the Labour Party, there's obviously a lot of instability going on
0:28
It is also true to say that they could say that they are responding to the shellacking that they got from voters, that they're hearing what the voters were telling them and trying to do something about it
0:40
Where's your response to your shellacking? Well, our shellacking was two years ago in the general election, Lewis
0:45
I think you'll remember we suffered our greatest defeat in the long history of the Conservative Party
0:50
And we responded to that by electing Kemi Bidnick and by engaging in the hard yards of turning this party around
1:00
actually redefining what it is to be a Conservative and resetting out and restating and renewing our offer to the British people
1:09
That's going to take a long time. As I said, it was the biggest defeat we've ever suffered. And we are making progress. We made progress in this year's local elections in comparison to last year's
1:18
most polls suggest that can you make any um do you make any progress in scotland
1:23
uh well no we actually did better in scotland um quite a few of the polls suggested we held
1:27
four out of the five constituency seats that we were fighting on a first past the post base as we
1:32
came you lost 19 seats yeah and don't get me wrong it was a difficult night and saw some
1:36
fantastic colleagues look at their seats that's always very difficult but in the first place is it
1:41
look it is progress across the country can you be it and i could seen as the most popular leader
1:46
compared to all the others as it stands right now. We're turning the ship around
1:50
We're only two years into this parliament. I think that's what makes what's happening in the Labour Party
1:55
even more staggering. But you didn't make progress across it. Just as a point of fact
1:59
you didn't make progress across the country, did you, Andrew, bro? You lost seats across the country
2:02
Net everywhere, you lost seats. Yeah, of course we lost seats. That's very disappointing
2:06
But when you compare what happened in last year's local election, we did considerably better and indeed outperformed
2:11
many of the expectations of many of the pollsters across the country
2:16
And in quite a few seats in Scotland, we came second to the SNP purely because the unionist vote was split
2:22
And as we move towards some of the by-elections that will be happening in Scotland, not least Aberdeen South
2:26
where in the equivalent Scottish Parliament seat, we only fell 1,000 votes short
2:30
We were looking to fight that. Andrew, I don't want to wish to be disrespectful, but you keep talking about the progress that you've made
2:35
And then you keep coming up with citing examples where you either lost or came second Doesn sound like it terribly good progress It incredible Look it huge progress We suffered our worst defeat in the history of the Conservative Party
2:49
And you keep losing, mate. You keep losing. Compared to last year's local elections, we made progress
2:55
And Kevin Bain is now the most popular leader in this country. We're only two years into this parliament
3:00
The last periods of opposition lasted upwards of two periods of opposition. When are you going to start winning
3:05
Two years. We're going to start winning. I mean, Kerry Baten is going to be the next Prime Minister of this country
3:09
Lewis, I fully expect in the next general election, a Conservative majority government will be elected
3:13
Goodness me, this country will need it after the chaos. She's not popular in Scotland, is she? I mean, in your neck of the woods, she's not popular in Scotland
3:19
or either you're not popular in Scotland or your leadership in Scotland isn't popular, because you lost 19 seats
3:23
At some point, I mean, look, the Labour Party, deeply unstable. And I'll tell you what, no argument for me
3:29
Hypocrites, clearly, because they spent years laying into you for being unstable and they're doing exactly the same thing
3:33
But at least you can argue, at least you can argue that they're listening to what the voters are telling them
3:37
You're going around saying, Kem is terribly popular. Well, she can't be that popular because she keeps losing elections
3:43
Well, she is popular, but we are not... She keeps losing elections. But we are, as I said, two years into this parliament
3:50
We had our worst defeat ever just two years ago. It takes an incredibly long time to turn that ship around
3:56
The British people lost trust and lost faith in the Conservative Party to deliver for them
4:00
And for some of the reasons you just suggested, the chopping and changing of leader, the ill definition of what we stood for
4:07
And I think and a feeling from the British people that their lives weren't any better than it was when we went into office
4:13
And we've got to hold our hands up and accept that. But turning that ship around is going to take a long time
4:18
But we are beginning that work. And as I said, we made progress in comparison to last year's local elections
4:24
You just lost a bit less badly. You just lost a little bit less badly. It's not much to write home about, is it
4:29
It's better than losing worse, if that's... But if you keep losing each time
4:34
you know what's going to happen in the end. You'll have no seats left. Well, that's not true
4:38
We won back Westminster. We became the largest party. Terrific. We did incredibly well in Bexley
4:42
We did very well in Broxbourne. We did incredibly well in Fylde and North West of England
4:46
We won four out of the five constituency seats in the Scottish parliamentary election
4:50
increasing our majority in Aberdeenshire West. My equivalent seat in the Scottish Parliament. There are glimmers of light
4:55
and the green shoots of recovery are there. This is going to take time. But Kemi Bidnik is renewing the Conservative Party and turning the ship around
5:02
And as I said, we're fighting the next general election to win. From a country which, as you know, is overwhelmingly pro-EU
5:08
or at least voted by an overwhelming margin to remain in the EU
5:12
do you welcome the conversation that the Labour Party seems to want to start on our eventual rejoining
5:18
No, absolutely not. I think it's the last thing this country needs, more division distraction another referendum I think the British people are sick fed up of talking about the EU What we as legislators and people elected into Parliament should be doing
5:31
is actually focusing on the powers that we have now outside the EU
5:35
to improve lives, for the British people to improve our economy and make this country a better place, and not fighting the battles of yesterday
5:42
We spent five long years from the moment the British people voted to leave
5:46
to the point we actually implemented the referendum result and left, you know going round in circles chopping and changing leaders getting bogged down in parliamentary
5:54
procedure late night debates the country torn apart families not speaking to each other we do
5:58
not want to go back to those days we need to move forward and start rebuilding this economy and making
6:03
this country a better place for everybody to live and that frankly the only country talking the party
6:08
talking about that right now is the conservative party farage and and uh reform want to drag this
6:14
country back to some halcyon age that never really existed scotland would vote to rejoin
6:19
So Scotland would vote to rejoin, wouldn't it, though? Very likely. Well, I mean, who knows if there was another referendum
6:24
But, I mean, I don't want there to be another referendum. I want us to focus on moving this country forward
6:28
That's why we brought forward our alternative case speech with various bills to improve the economy
6:32
to support business, to get Britain drilling again, to reduce energy bills. That's what politicians in this country should be focusing on
6:38
and not another constitutional battle within ourselves, which resolves nothing, and actually damages the economy
6:43
I just wanted to play you this, Andrew, from a clip you may have seen yesterday
6:47
Tommy Robinson or his Unite the Kingdom so-called rally yesterday, which took place in central London
6:53
Just have a look at this. Thank you, tough! Thank you, tough
7:02
Thank you! So for people listening rather than watching
7:13
that was three women dressed up in burqas as the crowd boos and jeers
7:17
That wasn't all that we saw yesterday. We saw children swearing, saying F Allah or other sorts of things
7:24
We saw Tommy Robbins himself suggesting Britain needed a version of ice
7:28
which can round them up. There was also a cause of violence as well. Your leader has a perfectly, of course, legitimate and respectable position, which is that the marches which take place, which are pro-Gaza, ought to be banned because she says that they foster anti-Semitism
7:43
Would you not agree that what we saw yesterday, including what you just saw there with the burkas, that has to be fostering Islamophobia or anti-Muslim sentiment, doesn't it
7:51
Yeah, I mean, I couldn't actually hear the clip that you played there. Lewis
7:56
But from what you described and from what I've seen online posts yesterday, there are
8:00
deeply disturbing images. And of course there no place in Britain for language like that or the scenes that we saw and the individuals concerned should be dealt with appropriately We need to defend freedom of speech in this country It absolutely imperative that we do that And sometimes that means hearing or suffering language or phrases
8:20
that you might find uncomfortable. But when it strays into the realm of Islamophobia
8:24
or criticism of another person by virtue of their religion or their appearance, then I think that
8:32
that is completely out of order and should be dealt with appropriately
8:37
But I just wonder why, I mean, if you're a Muslim listening or watching those things
8:42
you might wonder why it appears that your leader has something of a double standard, because she said that those marches around Gaza ought to be banned
8:50
because of the hatred that she says they were generating. But she says that that ought not to be banned. What's the difference
8:56
Well, I think the marches around Gaza are generating anti-Semitism and hatred of Jews
9:00
We've had to see security. Do we not believe that that will be generating Islamophobia
9:05
Two weeks ago in Golders Green, you know, anti-Semitism is on the rise
9:08
And I'm glad that the prime minister seems to be taking it seriously and looking to work cross-party and with civil society to root out the scourge of anti-Semitism and to end that
9:17
But what we saw yesterday, what you just described, yes, is Islamophobic. And it's absolutely right that those people who were using those phrases and acting in such an offensive manner are dealt with appropriately
9:28
and we can look at whether or not the entire march should be subject to a ban or not in the
9:35
clear light of day but I mean as I said I couldn't even hear the clip you showed these people should
9:40
be dealt with appropriately and that's only that's only proper I mean one thing we should say it
9:44
wasn't especially well attended so clearly that is something that ought to be borne in mind and
9:50
perhaps says something about how successful this particular man is being I think it was disappointing
9:54
to them how few people attended by comparison to September. But I just wonder, I mean, you seem to
9:58
be sort of indicating that perhaps you think something like that ought to be banned. Do you
10:03
think that the two things ought to be looked at in the same way? Well, I think that if we look at
10:08
the anti-Israel, the Gaza protests, they've been going on now for the best part of two years
10:14
Almost every weekend for a while there, central London was being shut down. And some of the
10:18
language and the actions of people on those marches, deeply offensive to Jews and actually
10:22
were resulting in an increased level of anti-Semitism and Jewish hate. These are one-off protests
10:28
I'm not defending what they said, and I do think they should be looked at. And as I said, the individuals who are guilty of Islamophobic language
10:37
or actions should be dealt with appropriately, but they are not happening on as frequent a basis as the anti-Israel protests were
10:44
certainly up until the early part of this year. But of course, they need to be looked at
10:48
And of course, that language and actions like that are completely unacceptable in Britain in 2026
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