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Darren Jones, Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister, addresses mounting speculation regarding Prime Minister Keir Starmer’s leadership and internal party tensions. "The Prime Minister is going nowhere," he tells Ben Kentish - dismissing reports of a potential challenge as "fantasy politics." Jones faces questions on the government's economic performance, public perception, and parliamentary conduct, stating, "My absolute focus is about delivering for the country," rather than engaging in the ongoing "psychodrama" of Westminster. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #benkentish #darrenjones #LBC #ukpolitics #uknews #debate #keirstarmer #starmer LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
He will fight a leadership contest against Andy Burnham
0:03
That's a different question. Andy Burnham, I think, has made no secret of the fact that he wants to be prime minister
0:10
But until such time as MPs trigger a leadership election, it's a hypothetical question
0:14
It is a hypothetical question, but it obviously has huge consequences for voters, for the markets, for our international standing
0:20
Would the prime minister take it to a vote to Labour Party members? As I said, it's a hypothetical question. I'm not going to answer hypothetical
0:26
of course. The important thing, well, because there's a whole range of things that could happen over the course of the next few weeks and months. But the most important thing, and this is where
0:33
the prime minister's mind is absolutely focused, is that whatever debate might be happening inside
0:37
the Labour Party, under Keir's leadership, we've always put the country first, party second. He's
0:42
the prime minister, he's getting on with the job of prime minister, and he expects all of us in his
0:46
cabinet to be doing the same. Do you not think there's a bit of this country, your colleagues, is a bit of clarity about, you know, it is a hypothetical situation, but it's also a very
0:52
plausible one, what the Prime Minister's judgment in that situation would be. There's a sort of
0:57
obscurity to that at the moment. Look, if colleagues want to trigger leadership elections
1:01
that's a question for the parliamentary Labour Party. We all know what the rules are. I think
1:04
it's got to be 81 or something MPs to sign a form and say that that's the way forward that they wish
1:10
to go in. And if that's the case, then of course, there's a contest. But as I say, at this stage
1:15
that's a hypothetical question. From what I'm hearing, the Prime Minister would be minded to
1:20
fight that leadership contest? I'm still not going to answer hypothetical questions, but the key point
1:24
is that the Prime Minister is going nowhere, he's getting on with the job, and if there's
1:28
a debate inside the Labour Party, he will take part in that debate. When you say he's going nowhere, your colleagues in Parliament might have other thoughts
1:34
on that, and other views on that, if Andy Burnham does return to Westminster. Well, look, there's
1:38
been no secret that some colleagues have asked the Prime Minister to consider a timetable
1:42
where Streeting threatened him to resign, but that's been a bit of a failed coup
1:48
So how can you confidently say he's going nowhere, when Well, because he's still in number 10 and he's getting on with the job
1:53
Well, he's still in number 10 and getting on with the job. He's going over for the next six weeks at least. He's still in number 10 and he's getting on with the job
1:58
Do you think Andy Burnham would be a good prime minister? I'm sure you'll say the current one's doing a great job
2:03
But hypothetically, Andy Burnham does become prime minister. Do you think he'd do a good job too
2:07
I'm not going to get involved in this kind of fantasy politics debate
2:11
Andy is a friend and colleague of mine. I've known him for many, many years. I campaigned on one of his previous leadership elections many, many years ago
2:18
and I'll be campaigning for him in Makerfield because I want Labour to win
2:24
And if we do, obviously Andy will return to the parliamentary Labour Party and I think that's a positive thing for us
2:30
He's an important part of the team. But what I'm not going to start doing is like fantasy politics ratings
2:35
I'm simply asking, he's been a senior figure in your party for a long time
2:40
He's the mayor of Greater Manchester. Do you think you do a good job as prime minister? As I say, I'm not going to start ranking Wes or Andy
2:46
I'm not asking you to rank anybody. I'm simply asking whether you think a respected senior colleague of yours in the Labour ranks would be a good leader of the party and a good prime minister
2:54
I know why you're asking. But as I say, this is fantasy politics. My absolute focus is about delivering for the country
3:00
I think it's important as well to understand that the public don't. We might find this entertaining in the Westminster bubble
3:06
It's actually quite annoying, I think, to members of the public when we've got so many challenges that we face as a country
3:10
We'll come on to that. But it's also interesting to people in the country who lead this, who leads this country
3:15
Sure. And who leads the country is Keir Starmer and is the prime minister getting on with the job
3:19
Let me just want a couple of final questions on this. We've had reports this weekend that EU
3:23
officials have paused talks about a kind of closer relationship with the UK because they not confident that the current government will still be the government in a few months time How damaging has this Labour leadership psychodrama been for Britain national interest Well firstly I don think that true We have an EU summit coming up before the summer
3:41
My officials in the Cabinet Office, my ministerial colleague Nick Thomas-Simmons and my team
3:45
have been very busy negotiating agreements with the EU on alignment on particular sectors
3:51
including on food and drink and electricity. But it must be distracting from the work of government, this sort of drama, this speculation
3:58
This interview is evidence of that. You know, when people like to talk about who's up, who's down, what the fantasy politics of the future may be, we're not talking about how we improve people's lives and make our country richer at a time when actually collectively we're poorer than we should be. That's the type of stuff we want to be talking about
4:14
Does it frustrate you that your colleagues, some of your colleagues, I should say, have put you in that position
4:18
Look, as I said, I think previously on TV a couple of weeks ago, I'm disappointed that we've ended up in this position because the public rightly don't like it
4:27
I don't like it. I get that we have to have an internal debate in the Labour Party about our electoral performance at the local elections
4:32
We should have that. I'm not trying to dodge that question, but we are elected into government to deliver for the public
4:39
That is what we should all be focused on delivering. And if we do, that's how we have the best chance of getting re-elected
4:44
It's hard to believe, isn't it, that two years on from that historic landslide election win
4:48
we're having this conversation. I'm sure you find it hard to believe too, Chief Secretary
4:53
Where do you think it's all gone so wrong for the Prime Minister and the government? Look, I wouldn't say it's gone wrong
4:59
I mean, look, if you just look at, I get there's been a political debate, but you look at just the last two weeks
5:03
we've been the fastest growing economy in the G7. Inflation is down to 2.8%
5:08
We've had migration fall to its lowest levels in years. NHS waiting lists at the lowest levels in years
5:14
Knife crime down by 10%. I mean, I could go on and on and on about the positive effect government policy is having
5:20
There's a mismatch. There's a mismatch between the list that you're sort of giving and the fact that when voters are asked
5:25
what Keir Starmer's greatest achievement as prime minister is, they say nothing. And when they're asked to describe it in one word
5:30
the most common response is weak, closely followed by useless. So you can say, look at all the wonderful things we're doing
5:36
but voters are telling a very different story. Well, this is why we have to focus on the change
5:40
we're delivering across this country and not the fancy politics of who's up and who's down
5:44
in membership polls and the latest chatter in the tea room in the House of Commons
5:49
because this government is making a positive difference to the country and to people's lives across the country
5:53
People don't feel 80% of people say they don't feel better off under Labour. Half of those, so they feel worse off
5:57
So again, you're saying, look at all the things we're doing to make people's lives better. And people are not feeling it
6:02
Well, that's because we've made important progress in the first two years. But there is absolutely more to do
6:07
This is a five-year term. We need to see it within that context. And the big test for us will be at the next general election in 2029
6:14
where the people do feel better off at that stage. And that's why the focus has to be, how do we make the country richer and stronger
6:20
than it was when we inherited it from the Conservatives. That is the primary most important question
6:26
that the government has to answer and that the public will judge us on at the next election
6:31
Is the reality not that you haven't been bold enough and you haven't been radical enough in government
6:36
I'll give you one example. We had two weeks ago Keir Starmer saying, no more incremental change, we have to be bolder
6:41
Then less than two weeks on, we have rate trees. In the middle of a cost of living crisis, where four in 10 people in this country
6:47
that's tens of millions of people, say they're struggling to afford food or bills. The Chancellor stands up and is cheered to the
6:53
rafters by Labour MPs because she's making it £4 cheaper to go to Thorpe Park this summer
6:58
Do not worry that the level of government action is wildly inadequate to the problems that people are facing And frankly when you have announcements like that you just look out of touch So look there a macro economic question here which as I said repeatedly is a question about how do we make people better off
7:14
and the country richer. That is not something you can affect in a matter of weeks
7:18
It does take years to do that. It's been two years. It still takes longer to do that. And we've been buffeted around by these international conflicts
7:23
including in Iran, which shows that the country we inherited from the Conservatives
7:27
was not as resilient as it should be. It takes time to make that change
7:31
but it's right that in the in the short term when we know inflation is going to be difficult over the
7:36
course of this year because of what's happened in iran a war that we did not want to happen but
7:40
that affects us anyway that the chancellor is finding the ways in which she can help that little
7:45
bit more especially with families during the summer when it can be quite difficult when you've got the
7:49
kids at home and you haven't got any spare money four pounds off a theme park ticket is what families
7:53
need and want when they can't pay the bills or put food on the table we've already put 150 pounds
7:57
off on energy bills. Energy bills are capped. We've already made the difference
8:02
on kids in poverty by lifting the cap on two-child poverty payments. We've already made an average
8:08
of £8,000 a saving per child per year for families with kids in nursery school. The policies
8:14
you're referring to are individual policies, but they're part of a package of changes
8:18
the government's bringing forward to try to help people. Just one final question on the economy
8:21
Rachel said, judge me on whether I deliver growth. The economy's growing
8:25
at 0.6%, which is something, but it's not exactly motoring. When is that growth that
8:30
she's promised repeatedly going to materialise? This is the macroeconomic question over the course of this parliament, but I would point
8:36
out that I think now for two quarters, we've either been in first or second place in the
8:41
G7 in terms of growth in our economy. 0.6, it's nothing to write home about. It's nothing to chat crow about
8:46
But look, you could look at any country in the world and their growth prospects are not as good as they would like them to be right now, not least because of this war in the
8:52
Middle East affecting the price of crude oil and global trade. These things we can't control
8:57
but we have to deal with. But even in that context, we've got inflation coming down to 2.8%. We've got
9:03
the highest growth in the G7. That's better than any other country in the world going into the
9:08
economic implications of this conflict, which is a consequence of the Chancellor's plans
9:11
I hear you. One of the biggest barriers we've got to growth in this country, I'm sure you'll agree, Chief Secretary, the number of people either out of work or underemployed. We learned
9:19
this morning that we're going to have a publication of the alan milburn review this week that will
9:23
basically pin the blame on social media and the epidemic that he says of anxiety and poor mental
9:28
health that that is causing what will the government be doing in response to that finding
9:33
well the consultation on social media specifically closes on tuesday next week
9:37
we've already given the technology secretary powers to implement any decisions coming out of
9:43
that consultation quickly under the last government took us eight years to legislate for the online
9:47
Safety Act. We don't want to do that again. I'm obviously not going to get ahead of the
9:51
consultation, which closes on Tuesday. But Alan's report is important because when we came into
9:57
government, one in eight young people were not in education, training or work. As his work has
10:02
shown, we spend around £25. Sorry, for every £25 we spend on someone out of work in benefits
10:08
we spend a pound trying to help them get back into work. The whole system is skewed the wrong way
10:12
And this is important to this debate about how we make the country richer. We make the country
10:16
richer by helping people be in work, by improving their salaries, and then by being able to..
10:21
And it's interesting he's linking the problem, which is well known with the issue of social media. Just to be very clear, is the prospect of a ban on social media for under 16 still
10:29
very much on the table? Is that still being considered? It's part of the consultation. I think ministers have been very clear that it's something that
10:35
they consider as a credible option But of course we got this legal consultation period that we going through which as I say closes on Tuesday We nearly out of time Just one final question I wanted to ask you The new Green MP Hannah Spencer was asking the Prime Minister this week about the prospect or the fact that alcohol is widely accessible in the House of Commons
10:52
And from her experience, MPs have been drinking on the job. Should that be banned
10:58
Look, I mean, I'm not someone that frequents the pubs in the House of Commons very often, largely because I've got small kids who we brought to London when we came into government
11:06
so that I could be around. So I go home when I finish work
11:12
But a lot of your colleagues don't. And she says they've been drinking before votes and so on
11:16
And to the public, that just looks incredible. Should alcohol only be available in Parliament after work hours
11:22
Well, look, I suppose the point is that there are sometimes votes
11:25
that go very late into the night, you know, 10pm, 11pm at night. It's not every day. It's often on a Monday
11:32
And it's not every Monday. Nobody needs to be boozing beforehand. Sure, but I suppose if you're having dinner in the palace
11:37
and you're having some wine with your dinner, it's the type of thing you would do in normal life
11:41
if you're out at 9pm or 10pm at night. Not if you've got work to do late in this. Not if you've got key decisions to make on behalf of the country, you wouldn't
11:47
Well, most MPs will have realised how they're voting one way or another. I mean, this is not a complicated process
11:52
And when you get to votes at the end of the day... You don't have a problem with it. Because a lot of people in this country will
11:58
They will think there's only 650 MPs. We can, at the very least, expect them not to be drinking during work hours
12:03
I don't have a problem when MPs are on the estate until 10 or 11 o'clock at night having a glass of wine with their dinner
12:10
I mean, I don't think that's a problem in the slightest. Do you have a problem with the fact that that wine is subsidised by taxpayers
12:15
It's not subsidised by taxpayers. The difference is that the restaurants don't have to pay rent to be in the building
12:20
It's a lot cheaper than you would get a glass of wine or a pint anyone else in central London
12:23
But that is why it's cheaper, because they don't have to pay commercial rents because they're already in the building
12:28
When you go to a pub outside, they're paying rent to their landlords. Can you not worry about the optics of this, that MPs are getting cheaper
12:35
Cost of living crisis, you and your colleagues, are paying less for a pint of beer than anybody else within, you know, probably a 20 mile radius
12:42
I'm not disregarding it. I'm just explaining to you it's not subsidised by taxpayers money. That's just not true to say. The cost of running the restaurant is lower because they don't pay rent to be in the palace
12:51
That's that's the reason for it. But as I say, MPs who are there late on a Monday, they have to have dinner
12:58
They've got to eat. Having a glass of wine with their dinner is fine with me
13:02
Obviously, if there are MPs who are drinking to excess, that is not acceptable. It is a place of work. We need to make sure that people are acting responsibly
13:10
But I don't accept the characterization that you've got a whole ton of MPs drunk running around the building
13:16
I mean, I've just never, ever seen that before. What I have seen is MPs when they're working very late into the evening, having started at the normal time of work
13:25
Most people in most jobs had a glass of wine or a beer with their meal during work hours
13:30
They'd face disciplinary action. I think if you were at work until 10pm at night, your employer would let you go out for dinner
13:36
A lot of people are. If you're a bus driver or a security guard or an NHS nurse, you're not nipping out for a glass of wine on your break
13:41
That's different. MPs are office workers. They're not conducting open heart surgery
13:46
I think if you worked in insurance or banking or in legal services or even in a call centre and you're working until late
13:53
you're allowed to go and have something to eat on an evening and that's the context in which MPs
13:58
are conducting themselves and as I say it's not every single night because on Tuesdays and
14:02
Wednesdays we finish about 7 p.m and then you're free to go off and do whatever you like in your
14:06
spare time 5 p.m on Thursdays and then people go back to their constituencies. I think this
14:11
example relates primarily to when we're sitting very late which is some Mondays but not every Monday
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