Up next in 10
Emily Maitlis, co-host of The News Agents podcast, joins Shelagh Fogarty to discuss a number of burning topics, including the response of Donald Trump to the prospect of having to meet another new Prime Minister with Keir Starmer having announced his resignation, and Andy Burnham seemingly primed to take over the top job just weeks after being re-elected to Parliament, a move which Maitlis describes as having been 'met with a collective shrug' by the public. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #shelaghfogarty #emilymaitlis #thenewsagents #tna #ukpolitics #uknews #keirstarmer #politics #uk #andyburnham #news #donaldtrump #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
stories all roads leading to Andy Burnham really and all the things I'd like to talk to you about
0:04
Let's start with Donald Trump's messages too and words about the next Prime Minister probably
0:10
So funny that wasn't it coming out the Oval Office last night where he said he's a mayor of some town
0:15
Some town or other. Was he confusing Makerfield with Manchester or hasn't he heard of either of them
0:21
Called him a very liberal guy. I mean look just to put this in context Trump was in a really foul
0:25
mood last night. So I think the old eyelashes Andy got off pretty lightly because he'd come away
0:32
from a bust up with his own senators, sort of Republican senators. He'd refused to sign this
0:37
bipartisan bill about housing, sort of affordable housing. He was really cross that they wouldn't
0:42
put into law a sort of £90 billion fund for the war. So genuinely, I think it could have gone
0:51
much worse. And I think that Andy Burnham will probably be relieved that that was the extent
0:57
of what he said last night. Let's have a quick listen. This was when Donald Trump was hosting
1:01
the NATO Secretary General Mark Rutter in the Oval Office discussing transatlantic defence
1:06
investments. That's topical around these parts, isn't it? And alliance operations. This is what
1:11
he had to say about the possibility of Andy Burnham visiting him, I think it was
1:16
You mentioned that our Prime Minister has got one foot out the door. The new guys are coming in
1:20
What do you know about him, Mr. President? And what does he need to do to improve the relationship between the two
1:25
The President, I know about whom? The new incoming Prime Minister, Andy Burnham. I don't know anything
1:29
I see that he was, I guess, the mayor of a town
1:33
I hear he's extremely liberal, extremely. So that means he probably won't open up the North Sea
1:40
You know, I gave Kierstammer some pretty good advice. I said, open up the North Sea
1:47
go to Aberdeen, which was the hottest city in the whole continent
1:54
It was the oil city. It was the oil of Europe. And they closed everything
1:58
It was terrible. I saw it before my eyes, and I couldn't believe it
2:03
The North Sea is loaded. I have had every oil company come to see me
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Sir, could you give us access to the UK? We would do anything to drill in the North Sea
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And they haven't even found what's there. The amazing thing is they buy their oil from Norway, which gets the oil from the North Sea
2:22
Think of it. And they pay a big premium. Norway's got now two trillion dollars in the bank and UK is dying
2:30
So they should open up the North Sea. It's an easy one. And a lot of good things are going to happen
2:35
It's among the greatest fields in the world. Trump does have this way, doesn't he, of claiming credit for things that have already happened or were going to happen anyway or might happen without
2:47
his intervention. For example, on Sunday night, he started tweeting about Starmer's resignation
2:54
It was really ugly, actually. It's an ugly thing to do that, to step into somebody else's
2:57
moment. It hadn't happened. And it was just when the rumours were starting to circulate that it
3:03
might be what Monday morning had in store for us. And I don't think that Starmer was pushed
3:10
into that position by Donald Trump. But of course, as soon as he's resigned, Trump likes to claim
3:15
the credit for it be in the mix it's kind of it's mean boy stuff isn't it well speaking of which
3:20
yeah mean girl stuff in the in parliament yesterday a little bit but i think but but
3:24
with the burnham and the energy question i think that is a bit more live because there is an
3:29
argument that burnham says what will people not be expecting me to do you know um maybe that's
3:35
the first thing he's got this sort of soft left um sort of carapace hasn't he that's what everyone
3:39
thinks they're getting now and if he said actually i am open to this i am thinking of something that
3:44
would probably get support across the aisles. Well it was interesting to hear Rachel Reeves being asked about it in a Q with Sophie Ridge this morning when the chancellor was speaking to the British Chambers of Commerce making a speech there and she was asked back and forth a few questions
3:58
And she talked about that. And she didn't quite say, yes, he should go further than me
4:02
But she gave the impression that she was saying, well, you know, I've always been open to, we, the government, have always been open to use of existing fields
4:10
It's not quite the same as what Trump is saying that, though, is it? Well, also, if you've always been open to it, but you haven't done it, you clearly weren't that open to it
4:17
and clearly Ed Miliband was very much against it. I think the iPaper yesterday was reporting
4:22
that even he might be softening his position or changing his position
4:25
It's amazing what the prospect of being a Chancellor will do to your ideological positions, isn't it
4:31
Oh, I can't think of a worse job. Me neither. For two at the top, I can barely count
4:36
We don't want to have that one too. Now, in the conversation that Reeves had this morning
4:41
that the Chancellor had this morning, She was insisting that her record was a strong one, a sound one
4:49
had left the economy in a better place for whoever succeeds her in that role
4:56
What does she have to lean on there, do you think? She can say, genuinely, that she did change the fiscal rules enough to allow for borrowing to invest
5:07
that she has increased that borrowing and investment by £144 billion. So I think she can sort of bank that one
5:19
It's interesting to see what else she would take credit for. I mean, she can say she raised NICs on employers
5:26
and many businesses would turn around and say, that's driven us to the wall
5:32
That's literally put us in a position. Because in the conversation she was saying about business investment is up
5:37
and is massively contributing to the growth in our economy. And yet, if you ask most small and medium-sized businesses
5:44
who are the backbone of our economy, they're not feeling it. So she must be talking about really big and high-end investment businesses, mustn't she
5:52
I mean, I guess there was the question about whether, you know, the drug companies, the pharmaceuticals are going to come in
5:57
I'm not sure what's happened to that yet. There are always going to be wins, I think
6:03
in any sort of chancellorship that you can point to. But I think more broadly, a lot of the really sticky questions for Keir Starmer have come from the Treasury in the last two years, whether it was winter fuel, which many people call the original sin, the idea, not that she brought in the policy, but that there was absolutely no explanation around it
6:25
It felt like it was meant to be a sort of a whip as opposed to an agenda
6:31
There was nothing around it. And then they rolled it back. They didn't manage to get welfare through
6:35
they didn't really manage to achieve many of the things that they were trying to do
6:39
And we look at what happened in the last 10 days with the departure of John Healy in defence
6:46
Treasury at the heart of that as well. Well, there were a lot of questions around. Was it, I mean, she, I've spoken to people sort of close to the Treasury who say
6:54
actually, you know, there was one amount of money that he asked for originally
6:58
and then he came back and asked for more. and arguably the MOD is never going to feel like they're sufficient
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and procurement in the MOD is a bit of a sort of, you know, a bottomless bucket as well
7:10
And he used that word unwilling about her, didn't he, in his resignation letter
7:16
She was unwilling, he was unable. Two different choices of what he said
7:20
Yes, and I think, you know, if you look at the choreography of this week, it was quite stark that at 9.30 when Keir Starmer came to that podium
7:27
made his resignation speech... Nowhere to be seen. And the camera panned to David Lammy and to other advisors
7:33
There was no Rachel Reeves outside her own front door. And she then appeared along with 200 other MPs in the selfie with Andy Burnham When she was asked this morning if she had any advice for her she was trotting out all the figures and defending her record and then she was asked if she had any advice
7:50
for whoever takes over as Chancellor and she, well have a listen, this is odd
7:57
Obviously he's going to choose a Chancellor, it might be you, it might not be you
8:02
What would your advice be to anyone in the future taking on the role as Chancellor
8:07
I'm not sure if anyone wants my advice
8:17
but my advice would be you've got a brilliant set of officials at the Treasury
8:26
who will back you if you are clear about what you want to do
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and I've been very clear about what I wanted to achieve as Chancellor
8:36
I wanted to restore stability to the economy. I wanted to boost investment, both public and private, into the economy
8:44
And I wanted to change how the economy works with a regulatory burden that is fairer and more efficient
8:50
with a planning system that actually allows things to get built in our country
8:54
I'm really proud of my record. And I hope that whoever is Chancellor in the future, whenever that future may be
9:02
sticks to what I'm doing because it is beginning to bear fruit
9:08
And we are seeing that investment return to the economy, that growth return to the economy
9:12
and crucially that stability so that businesses can plan and invest for the future
9:17
Shall we try that again? She's going to just say, good luck. You're going to need it
9:22
It's fine to think. It's fine to pause when you're thinking, but keep your mouth shut while you're thinking
9:28
And I don't think it's a great look to say, why would anyone want to come to me for advice
9:34
particularly if you still want to stay in that job. And from all we hear, she's been sending out sort of team
9:41
or the team has gone out and tried to petition businesses to say she should be kept in the job, that Andy Burnham needs to keep her in the job
9:47
the bond markets will be happy, you know, she represents stability. Personally, I think it's hard to see how an incoming prime minister
9:56
who has talked about the need for change would be able to pick up
10:01
with the old. And she said as well this morning that she backs Andy Burnham. I was saying to
10:06
my colleagues earlier that that's a bit like saying I back breathing in and out. You know
10:10
I mean, it's a given now, isn't it, that it's going to be Andy Burnham and she's backing him
10:15
But we're in this strange limbo now, aren't we, in government, where it's him, but it's not him
10:20
Honestly, I have frankly been amazed, Sheila, by this kind of communal shrug from the whole
10:27
political world which has just accepted Starmer's resignation as if it's a totally normal way to
10:33
start the week and if it's totally normal that somebody should resign at 9 30 and we'll be
10:38
talking about the incoming person an hour later and it's almost the normality I think that that
10:42
kills you on this because it shouldn't be that easy should it to throw out somebody who's
10:49
democratically elected it shouldn't be that easy that by lunchtime we have completely sort of
10:56
removed all the ripples from the water and just be talking about the next thing
11:00
And I think people in the country are more queasy with this than many of us have allowed for
11:10
You know, a lot of people who are not politically minded have said
11:14
I don't know about the politics, I don't know about the policies. But this seems wrong, this seems unfair
11:19
But he seemed to represent something fairly dignified and with integrity and I just don't like the fact that we are now playing sort of pop-up Prime Minister
11:28
I would say that most callers on the day and previously actually when we talked about Starmer performance but most callers on the day on Monday had exactly that feeling about the whole thing yeah i mean you could say that in this bloodless coup it you know you could say oh it
11:46
a tribute to the party that they're not divided and they're not sort of it's pretty brutal they're
11:50
off but there is something of the sort of the stun gun to this do you know what i mean it feels like
11:56
it's a sort of shot to the head and we've all just gone oh well on we get off we go
12:01
constitutionally allowed though or it wouldn't be happening it is constitutionally allowed but i
12:06
don't think it's necessarily about the thing itself i think it's about how how concertina time has been
12:13
between i mean let's not forget this time last week we did not know the result of the makerfield
12:19
by-election now we're talking about the meeting between you know andy burnham and trump or when
12:25
andy burnham might call an election how has that happened in seven days and i think you know people
12:31
always blamed social media for everything and I understand that it does it it puts us into sort of
12:36
a you know warp time which is you never have a break from what's happening so it feels as if
12:41
the continuum is sort of faster and faster but it is on us a bit it is on us to kind of pause for a
12:46
moment and go do we not feel a little bit uneasy and we're also not used to seeing this in labour
12:52
are we it's what we're used to seeing sort of brutal removals in the conservative party more
12:57
Well, I suppose the difference is that I've never seen a Conservative sort of beheading which didn't invite a lot of other contenders of people to the Crown who thought they could all do a better job
13:08
I mean, that seems to be the difference here, is that the party has gone behind
13:13
And even Al-Khans, I was listening to, the Defence Minister, who was saying, I'm very happy to get behind Andy Burnham if he does the things that I broadly agree with
13:21
Maybe that was a pitch to get a job back in defence. Who knows? You know, I think there's a lot of sort of playing for positions here
13:28
But you're not seeing the grandstanding, but you are seeing, I mean, this, as I say, this sort of, this nodding along
13:36
You know, that selfie that had 200 people. There was, where are the people going
13:41
I thought that was, I think the word is precipitous. It was far too soon for that kind of celebratory
13:46
It was precipitous, but you know, when Kemi Batenok, and arguably her tone was really quite brutal
13:53
yesterday. I mean, not arguably, it was quite brutal yesterday. But what she was saying went
13:58
to the heart of something that I think a lot of the country would feel, which is, sorry, you know
14:03
you live next door to the guy. He appointed you. He gave you your break. Why weren't you there
14:08
You know, that is a bit treacherous, frankly. And I think she should be allowed to call out
14:14
what feels like a, you know, the opposite of treachery is loyalty. And we haven't seen much
14:19
loyalty from the party at this point and all of this all of what you've said i think is true and
14:24
and all of it leaves such a heavy burden on andy burnham to really start to deliver and deliver
14:31
quickly when he gets the job i mean how long do people allow right because if what we're saying
14:36
is we're impatient we're impatient for change um and he comes in you know let's imagine that he
14:43
tackles the welfare bill straight up right which he probably should you know it's and gets him to
14:47
come with him his party yes but he'll he gets them to come with him but he but he cuts the bill
14:53
right we spend what is it 350 or something a billion on on welfare so how big does the slash
15:00
need to be to that bill for it to matter for it to matter for it to save money but for him to still
15:06
take the party with him and for people who are on welfare or who are dependent on on the government
15:11
to help them live their lives not feel that he's he's let them down right first triple lock for
15:17
details yeah yeah thank you very much emily fascinating stuff emily matliss host of the
15:21
newsagents podcast drops at five o'clock usual time today thanks very much indeed it's 2 49
15:25
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