Up next in 10
After a busy week and with the Labour Party conference only a few hours away, Andy Burnham faces huge pressure to deliver on Labour's promises.
Burnham says he is 'not tempted' to call an early election, and that we won't go to the polls until 2029.
Baroness Dianne Hayter and political strategist John McTernan join Matt Frei to discuss Burnham's priorities and what Labour needs to do to deliver meaningful change.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
It's a very big week for Andy Burnham, our prime minister, to put up mildly
0:03
There he was in New York at the UN General Assembly, addressing that august body for the first time as prime minister
0:09
And he'll be addressing the Labour Party conference for the first time as prime minister. The last time there was a Labour Party conference last year
0:15
he was the mayor of Manchester, potentially plotting some sort of takeover on the very much on the sidelines
0:23
He never did in the end. But then ultimately, the chips fell in his direction, you know, quite a few months later on
0:29
And here he is now in charge of the party, in charge of the government, running the country as dark clouds gather once again on the horizon from the economy to potential war with Russia
0:42
I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on that he needs to manage. So how does he do it? How does he manage the country and the party at the same time
0:50
Not always an easy thing to do. Two guests this morning, Baroness Diane Hayter
0:55
former Labour Party chair, Labour peer and chair of the Lords Industry and Regulations Committee
1:00
and John McTiernan, political strategist and former political secretary to Sir Tony Blair
1:05
Let's start with you, Baroness Hayter. What does he need to do? The impossible, really
1:09
I mean, there's always been a challenge for Labour leaders. They've got four audiences
1:14
You know, they've got to help the people in the... You've got to start getting the people in the economy
1:18
or, you know, the exchange rate. and you've also got international allies and you've touched on it already
1:25
because of the war going on. Those, you know, how we're going to see to our international partners
1:33
is stronger than ever. So you've got four audiences and then you've got to do all the challenges
1:40
I mean, I think there are five challenges. You've mentioned some of them of defence, living standards
1:45
the promises we've made like on social care, you've got immigration and you've got a looming problem on how we deal with welfare
1:52
Other than that, it's a really easy speech to write. Sorry, excuse me, my laugh became a cough there
2:00
John McTiernan, you've just written a piece in the Financial Times saying decisions need to be made
2:05
What are they? Well, look, I think Andy set his priorities. He said clearly he wants devolution
2:12
He said clearly he wants re-industrialisation. He said clearly that he wants to reform social care
2:17
He needs to not deviate from those things. I think he's got three years. I don't think the election will be until after the US presidential
2:23
I think it would be foolish to do it before the US presidential, to be honest. He needs to actually make those things happen and not be distracted
2:32
And Diane's right. There are so many issues that could press on him. You can only do three or four things when you're a prime minister
2:39
Just focus on them. Don't get distracted by the chimera of a 10-year plan
2:45
A 10-year plan satisfies nobody because we need things in the next three years
2:50
And so I think he's got to really show in the speech, you have to show who you're for, who you're going to fight and how you're going to succeed
2:57
And that brings together all of the audiences because all of them want, in a way, stability
3:03
And Labour Party members and Labour MPs and Labour peers know they have no choice
3:08
They had to wait until Andy Burnham won a by-election to replace Keir Starmer
3:13
That means the PLP accepted. There was nobody with the talent or political power to dislodge a man who halved Labour vote in two years So you know Andy is a lucky man he a happy man he has to carry on being lucky and being happy
3:28
and you do that by just sticking to a few things. And you saw how well he did on the international stage
3:33
over the West Bank, the settlers, the sanctions, how well he did with Trump
3:37
He's got an ease and a charm about him, he needs to use them, their currency
3:41
and he should use them to pursue the domestic objectives, because you get re-elected by your own voters
3:46
not by other people's voters. baroness hayter he certainly seems to be comfortable in his own skin which can't always
3:54
be said for some of the previous incumbents of that that job but i mean to what extent does he
3:59
have to you know also make some enemies especially in his own party in order to show that he's serious
4:06
about you know taking the country forward when you have to make enemies for the sake of it i think
4:12
you have to take on um if you like the vested interest and i don't mean that people have got
4:16
financial vested interests but you know people particularly in the plp they came into politics
4:23
because they have particular um groups either in the community or indeed international challenges
4:30
that they want to meet and i think that his biggest task is being is having to say to the
4:37
his mps we cannot do all the things you want us to do we can't restore um the the amount we were
4:45
doing on development uh international development we can't do everything we want to do for those in
4:51
need of um social care i think he's going to have a a real difficult uh challenge but you don't take
4:59
on enemies for the sake of it i i think there's one thing i would add or slightly tweak from what
5:06
john has said he's pulled out three priorities devolution re-industrialization and social care
5:12
I myself think devolution is not an end in itself. It's just a means and it shouldn't be objective in itself
5:21
I think there's something for Labour, and I've just written about this in Fabian Review
5:26
which is actually what brings us together is the desire to make the country more equal
5:33
And I would quite like the Prime Minister to take an objective like that
5:39
so devolution may be a tool but it shouldn't be an end in itself
5:43
and I think having an overall passion if you like to get rid of some of the inequalities
5:51
is what ought to drive him and I think then it will help him take on
5:57
other interests who want their particular issue, what does it do for
6:01
our basic desire to make a fairer society John McTiernan, there was all this talk
6:07
earlier this week about a possible early general election personally i think it would be bonkers to go to the country for andy burnham especially
6:14
when he's got a thumping majority in the house of commons i think you agree with me has and he
6:18
this morning i think said in a round of interviews so you know that idea is dead can we now take it
6:24
that there will not be an early general election until he has to go to the country in 2029 take it
6:29
there will definitely not be an early election uh i think he needs runs on the board um and look but
6:33
the absolute fundamental thing and diane and i've talked about this and despaired about it over our
6:38
entire careers. Labour wins a landslide majority approximately every 25 years If you have one why risk it The polls say you become a lot of single party So don give away power when you got it And if you know what you going to do
6:53
which I think Andy does, use the power you've got. And even if you're slipping in the polls
6:58
and you lose the next election, you'll have made the change you want. So why would you risk it if you had a program
7:05
But I think the speculation will never die down because it's of great interest for the legacy media
7:11
to have something to talk about that's not a substance. People don't really, you know, so much media commentary is commentary
7:17
It's not facts. You can endlessly say, should there be an election? It's much harder to talk about what is the right way
7:23
to raise the resources for social care and to employ the staff
7:27
So balancing the delicate policy things that are needed for objectives is much harder to talk about than just go, oh, I know
7:33
Will there be one? Will there not be one? That's a talking point. And so obviously it's your profession to get talking points going
7:39
But I think no... John, I couldn't possibly comment. I couldn't possibly comment
7:44
We don't do opinion, you know, fatuous opinion on this programme. We just deal with the facts
7:50
Baroness Hayter, there are senior members, you know, of our economic sphere in the city who, you know, to summarise it, more or less said, you know, they like Andy Burnham
8:00
He's a great guy. But he's essentially, one of them said, a tax and spend socialist with better TikTok
8:07
Is that fair? And what does he need to do in the budget to live up to his own word that he will try and regenerate economic growth, the G word yet again, in the British economy
8:21
I think what he says, and it may be in the budget, and it probably won't be this week, about spending on defence
8:29
If we spend that right, it has two benefits. One is that we can actually stand up to any threats against us, or we can deter them
8:36
But also done correctly, it does mean re-industrializing. It does mean jobs
8:42
But even more, it means training. Because I'm doing an inquiry at the moment on the defense industry
8:48
what a number of the companies say is we need to be able to move faster
8:52
but we also need a trained workforce. So this actually feeds into the stuff that Andy wants to do anyway
9:01
I mean, the great thing about the sort of expenditure we'll be doing in defense is not against his other objectives
9:07
And we've always had this problem of poor productivity. Actually, training our youngsters into high-tech stuff
9:15
is one of the things that will help our productivity. And we can also, we're not only defending ourselves
9:21
but we'll have a really good export industry. So I think there are things that he can be saying
9:26
and the budget can be doing that will actually fulfil quite a lot of what he wants to see achieved
9:32
A bit weird, though, to have a Labour Prime Minister essentially come up with a slogan
9:37
growth through bombs or growth through tanks. But that's what you're saying, isn't it
9:43
Well, it happens to be that the next generation of armaments are now very high tech
9:51
You know, I've been seeing some of the stuff that they're making in either drone, anti-drone
9:56
autonomous marine vehicles. You know for the UK to be ahead of that sort of stuff which is useful for defence but it has other uses whether they medical or doing all sorts of other things including in time in the developing world Actually it happens to come
10:22
together that it helps our defence, but it also helps us become a much more high-tech and
10:28
industrialised nation. I think we don't build tanks in order to have an industry, but if it
10:34
happens to be that the armaments we're building is very good for our education and for our exports
10:40
and for our productivity then you know well met at this moment. John McTiernan you're a political
10:48
strategist to the very core of your being where does the threat come uh you know to Andy Burnham
10:54
is it from reform is it from a possibly resurgent Tory party capitalizing on reforms and Farage's
11:01
problems? Where does it come from? I think the threat comes, you know, is calling from inside
11:08
the House. The threat is actually to have a majority and do nothing with it. In the end
11:13
the country is crying out for change. That was the sadness about the 2024 general election
11:19
a massive Labour majority with the slogan for change. And then the first changes were things
11:24
like taking away the winter fuel payments. They went backwards. The change is about the future
11:28
as long as he has a view of the future, a view of fairness, and can make changes
11:33
So we clearly have an issue about housing and housing costs. You need to do something probably about rent controls
11:39
You definitely need to do something about councilised building. Why councilised building? Because government control it
11:45
There's a bit of a sense in my mind that learn from the vaccine task force
11:49
That was when government used innovation, speed, investment, collaboration to create a vaccine for a novel virus
11:58
We didn't know we could do it so quickly. Learn from that innovation and move government at speed
12:04
And so do those things. Do the councillors building. Do the devolution
12:08
Yes, Diane's right, for a purpose. And I think absolutely don't make enemies
12:14
This thing that people say, Andy's a people pleaser. What kind of prime minister do we want
12:19
A people hater? You want somebody. You lead through charm. You lead through guile
12:24
a bit of a charm. And if people actually see somebody at ease with the job of Prime Minister
12:28
they'll relax sometimes about the decisions that he has to make, which they don't
12:32
know too much about. I feel you, your own enemy is yourself. If you don't
12:38
have the ambition to match your majority, then the people ask, what are you for
12:42
And so it goes back to, I think, what Dianne was saying. She's written about, what's Labour for
12:46
You need to be for something. And if you're for something, you'll be against something. Reform
12:50
have the problems. The Tories are still below the level of the last election
12:54
when they had their worst defeat in their history. So the revival
12:58
on the right shouldn't be thought about. The coalescence of the forces
13:02
progressive forces, bringing people together. I think it was a danger the last
13:06
administration had a strategy punch the hippies, they called it. Make the left be angry
13:12
There's no point in picking fights unless they define you as labour. So stick to who you are
13:18
stick to a sense of the future, and then I think you make your own future. rather than worrying about ghosts
13:26
I guess you, indeed, I guess you look people straight in the eye with a message
13:30
don't always look over your shoulder, which is kind of what Keir Starmer had spent a lot of time doing
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