Up next in 10
LBC callers react as Andy Burnham hails the opening of No 10 North as the 'best day of his life'. 0:41 | Is Burnham spreading himself too thinly? 1:51 | Judy is ‘incensed’ by the move 5:00 | How many White Houses are there, asks Sean 8:04 | Margaret: Power should be centralised 9:46 | James: No 10 North will lessen London’s ‘fiscal surplus’ 12:46 | LBC listeners lay out the pros and cons 14:14 | Councillor Alan says civil service have ‘no idea’ about the North 18:13 | Caller Sue has some big ideas for 10 Downing Street The new PM is expected to work at the offices, located at the city's Heron House, once each week during his premiership as part of his move to balance power away from Westminster. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #vanessafeltz #andyburnham #number10 #ukpolitics #debate #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
I think this might be the best day of my life
0:02
I'm not joking either. I know you think I am, but I'm not. Maybe when you saw the new Prime Minister having the time of his life
0:08
he said the best day of his life, posing in front of that fake door. You thought this is exactly why I wanted Andy Burnham
0:15
the Messiah, the King of the North, to be my Prime Minister. I've never felt more enthused
0:19
At least he's not boring. He's certainly not, but no one can say he's boring. Hell of a good speech maker
0:23
All this stuff about every postcode, terrific. Does it mean anything? Does it add up to more than a hill of beans
0:28
is it just going to reduplicate everything everything's going to have to happen twice it's
0:33
all going to cost a lot of money everyone's going to be perpetually in the wrong place it's not going
0:36
to work at all and you can already see that or do you feel very optimistic about it as claire ward
0:40
did a big response to this good afternoon vanessa trying to be all things to all people of leeds
0:45
just spreading yourself too thinly there are already regions of the country saying what about
0:49
us here down in cornwall in the southwest or what about us here in sunderland the real north what
0:53
are you going to do for us yep i think it's a good thing that the uk is not so london southeast
0:57
centric but are they really going to be able to restart all of those manual industries that
1:01
started the industrial revolution in that region of the country is that really viable also what
1:06
about the huge wealth that's generated in the city of london in the financial sector that surely pays
1:10
for a lot of services that the whole country benefits from good that it was the best day of
1:14
andy's life but it left me a bit confused and cold that's joe in wandsworth you might say well
1:19
she's in wandsworth isn't she she would say that wouldn't she paul says how will the world look
1:23
us not having the seat of power in our capital city. Dunno
1:28
And then this says, the country is not just divided into the North and the South
1:32
The Midlands is much more deprived than many areas of the North. Birmingham receives 40% less per capita in central funding than Manchester
1:38
and are some of the poorest neighbourhoods in the UK and higher knife crime than London. But we never hear about that
1:43
The same is true as parts of the South West of England, which are more deprived than the North
1:47
Yet all I'm hearing is a focus on the North. Let's go to Judy in Brentwood
1:52
Hello, Judy. What do you think about this? Number 10 North. Do you like it? I am incensed
1:57
Ah, tell me why. Why are you incensed? Well, because I think he wants Friday up there so that he'll have a long weekend
2:06
And, you know, I don't think we're stupid, Jerry. You know, why don't they just let it all out, number 10 and everything, because the rest you do
2:17
and then we don't have to bother with any tradition that has been our tradition for years
2:24
So do you worry about the lack of tradition? Is that the thing that worries you or do you worry that it's a waste of time
2:29
and it's kind of performative as they say these days? It's being done to look a certain way
2:34
That posing in front of a fake door and all that palaver? Or do you just not like the idea of devolution
2:40
Maybe you think it doesn't work, Judy. I don't think it does work and I think that the wonderful thing about number 10
2:47
the world knows about it. And it's such an important thing for us
2:52
And I do think that, yes, let's take care of everybody. Let's do that
2:59
But for goodness sake, let's not lose our tradition. But I think you, did you hear Claire Ward there
3:05
the mayor, say, you know, that the number 10, she doesn't feel is fit for purpose
3:10
It's a rabbit warren of tiny little offices. It, you know, it's hard to convene
3:15
What about that word convene? I bet we're going to hear a hell of a lot of the word convene, don't you? I'm just, I'm just, I think we'd better have convene and print it on a T-shirt right now
3:23
She just means meet. It's hard to meet the right people at the right time in the right place
3:28
So you've got to schlep all the way up north to do it, all the way from downtown to have a good old meeting
3:33
I mean, do you think that makes sense? Were you moved by that? Well, first of all, I hope the trains aren't on strike
3:38
This would be a bit problematical because I hope they're not having anything special
3:43
like special chauffeurs or anything. Well, Andy Burnham went up in a private jet
3:48
He flew to Scotland. Oh, dear. Well, that's what I'm saying. No, you know, it's so ridiculous
3:55
For goodness sake, do you not think, Vanessa, that we've managed perfectly well with number 10
4:01
number 11 down the street for how many years? We've managed. But have we, though
4:08
Have we managed? How many prime ministers have we had in the last 10 years
4:12
1,000? 1,500? But is government working? Maybe it's not working. We heard a lot about levelling up
4:18
Boris Johnson did very well, didn't he, with all that levelling up stuff. Did anything ever level up
4:23
Or did everything just look as, you know, unequal and whatever it always did
4:27
I don't know whether it's time for a shake-up, Judy. The world will never be equal
4:33
That's just the trouble with communism because it's a wonderful idea. But then when you look and see where Putin lives, is that communism
4:43
He's got rather a big house, hasn't he? You know, we've got to do our best for everybody
4:50
Well, and you're not convinced that this is a good first step or a way to do that, you don't like the thought at all
4:56
I don't think so. You don't think so. Judy, lovely to hear from you. Thank you very much indeed
5:00
Let's talk to Sean in Brighton about this. Sean, hi, what do you reckon? Probably exactly the same or similar to your previous door
5:08
So, Judy, really, do you think it's a waste of money? Do you think it's a waste of time
5:12
Do you think it won't work? What don't you like? There's a couple of fundamental questions. Come on, tell me. What are they
5:17
Right, the first question is, how does adding a bucket load of travelling expenses including a private jet to our expenses in this country
5:32
How does that help? Yeah, but you know what Andy Burnham says if you say that to him
5:36
He says, well, what about everyone else having to travel down to London? It's not only one way
5:40
All the regional mayors, all the regional representatives have to keep schlepping off to London
5:45
So he's saying, you know, what difference if it's the other way for a change? It's an equaliser to go the other way
5:50
Okay, so you've then got the rental of the property. You've then got having to disseminate two operations instead of one
6:00
Yes, you have. Now, in America, how many White Houses is there
6:04
Yeah, one. How many seats of government are there in Germany? One
6:10
How many in France? One. I mean, I've been asking, this is like a quiz
6:15
We could be in a pub quiz together. You ask me questions and I answer, but I know the answers once
6:19
I'm doing fine so far. Can you see the pattern? I see the pattern, yes, very subtly arranged by you
6:25
But yes, I do see the pattern. But the question is, though, has it delivered the model, the existing model
6:30
Even if it goes back several hundred years, does it deliver? Maybe it's time to shift the paradigm, to make a different model
6:39
Do you honestly think that no other government would have changed the system by now
6:46
if it was as fundamentally flawed as Andy Burnham is making out
6:50
On the other hand, none of them come from Manchester, and he does. It's a different perspective, isn't it
6:56
Well, apparently, so he says, but I'm afraid I don't believe that
7:01
Right, and do you think it's going to simply be expensive and a waste of time
7:05
A lot of travelling backwards and forwards, a lot of the Prime Minister being en route up north or back again
7:11
and that it won't actually afford anything except a photo opportunity in front of a fake door
7:15
Do you feel as if it's just kind of false, the whole thing? Indeed, absolutely
7:19
It's like the remnants of a train strike, isn't it? All the stuff's going to be in the wrong place
7:26
Well, that definitely is one way of looking at it, that it's just over-complicating something that's already complicated
7:33
doubling the expense of the admin, doubling the schlepping around, everybody will be in the wrong place the whole time
7:39
either going up or down or up or down or whatever it is. But they're insistent, aren't they
7:43
that it's going to engender all sorts of financial growth. It's going to be an economic shot in the arm
7:48
It's going to be a fantastic injection of, I don't know, of flourishing confidence and employment, they're saying
7:57
Remember what your grandmother used to say. Which particular grandma? If it ain't broken, don't fix it
8:03
I know, but is it broken, though? Let's go to Margaret in Surbiton in West London
8:07
Hi, Margaret. Hello, I'm not there right now. I'm actually in the north. Okay
8:11
But I'm holidaying at the moment, planning to live here, and I've asked lots of questions
8:17
But I do think this balance of power should be centralised. There's no balance of power if it's in one area
8:25
But let's face it, everybody does know about London, and I think lots of issues are being ignored everywhere
8:31
because there's not enough communication. And so what do you think can be solved by this number 10 of the North
8:39
and what difference do you think it will make in a positive way? I do think there's lots of issues that probably have not been solved
8:50
He's trying to solve everything all in one go. Let's face it, he's a Cambridge graduate
8:54
and good old Harold Wilson from Yorkshire didn't want power in the north, did he
9:03
Absolutely didn't seem to. Maybe didn't realise that you could do it. Maybe Ashworth didn't
9:09
No, but maybe because something's done a certain way, you get the impression that it has to remain that way forever
9:15
but it doesn't. No, it doesn't, but it should be centralised. And I think the lack of communication
9:20
and people who don't communicate properly to keep other people informed, that's why things go down the pan
9:26
That was my job. I was a telephonist for 20 years. So much in communication
9:33
I've also worked as a telephonist in certain offices. Okay. And so, all right
9:39
Well, thank you, Margaret. Communication is the number one thing. All right. Interesting to talk to you
9:43
And I hope you have a happy life up north. Thank you for calling. Let's go to James in Brent. James, what's your perspective on this number 10 up north
9:50
Well, hello. Hi. Well, I'll lay my cards out. I've lived in London my entire life
9:55
Yes. But I think it's quite a good idea. Right. Why do you think that
10:00
Well, London has a fiscal surplus equivalent to about 8% or 9% of its GDP
10:07
and as a London taxpayer, I'm not very happy about that. And the reason that happens is that London has to massively cross-subsidise
10:16
the rest of the country. Because the rest of the country's economy is too weak to support itself
10:23
But how is a number 10 up north going to do anything much for the economy apart from a few jobs actually working at number 10, the building
10:30
But I mean, that's not a big deal, is it? That's a drop in the proverbial. So how will that, how will the raise of employment and green shoots and recovery and all that stuff and levelling up, how will that emanate from the presence of a number 10 up north
10:44
Well I think the relatively weak economy in the north has got quite a lot to do with the ability of local authorities in the north to build infrastructure and housing for themselves
10:58
So to give one example, the rail travel across the north of England is constrained by the Castlefield Corridor, which is a narrow railway bridge in Manchester through which all trains have to travel
11:14
Sounds like the blinking straight of Hormuz, that castle field. Exactly the same. It's our northern
11:20
equivalent. Just so we set it, we get where we're going with this one
11:25
I don't believe for a second that if large numbers of senior civil servants and senior
11:30
politicians lived in Manchester, that problem would still exist. And the castle field corridor is one
11:36
example, but I could give you umpteen examples of deficient pieces of infrastructure in the north that
11:42
really are the result of London ignoring those problems and and so you feel that a number 10 up north will be because it's actually there
11:50
boots actually on the ground Andy Burnham's best day of his life he loves it everybody else smiling
11:56
and we're deeply enthusiastic and all those regional mayors as well that the the crucial
12:01
kind of local sticking points hiccups obstacles problems are more likely to be addressed you think
12:09
are more likely to be sort of cured? Well, I think the hiccup, as you put it, is a lack of funding
12:15
Yeah. And that is to do with the fact that Westminster doesn't give money to problems like that in the way that it should
12:23
And in combination with that, cities like Manchester do not have the power to raise taxes or borrow money
12:30
to deal with those problems themselves. So one way or another, yes, I think Number 10 North
12:37
will help to sort of turn that tap on. I don't quite know how that's going to feed through
12:43
But you think it will? I think it will. Steve says, we already have a devolved government
12:47
in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. We already have it. Jess says, if you want to see how much work's already been done
12:52
on devolution, then just read Steve Reid's resignation letter. Interesting one, good one
12:56
Devolution disaster. Just look at the true north. It's the UK, Scotland
13:00
Yet again, Labour Prime Minister's forgotten about their previous heartlands in the current devolved regions
13:05
Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. or worse education, health, transport and policing with devolution
13:11
This is nothing new. And as to the huge frustration of those non-nationalists in each of the other British countries
13:15
having to suffer more and more mantra from the nationalist parties. And Steve Burr says, you tell them, Vanessa
13:21
Old people don't like change. It's all broken. And good luck to Andy for trying something different
13:26
And Theresa says, afternoon, Vanessa. Well, Trump goes off the Mar-a-Lago each weekend
13:30
and Andy gets to go to Manchester. I know which I would prefer. Best wishes
13:34
Teresa in Hampshire. I don't know which ones you prefer. I think she might prefer Mar-a-Lago
13:39
I'm not sure. And then Bob says, Number 10 of the North is brilliant
13:43
People are fed up with the detachment of Westminster and Whitehall. Of course, Westminster and Whitehall have their place
13:48
but the public need to be given more power to change their own lives. I say go even further and put a number 10 in every city, town, and village in the United Kingdom
13:55
Blimey, the cost would actually be keeping, keeping with the status quo, says Bob
13:59
And then Jan says in Camden, I'm very much of the thought that it's handy for Andy
14:04
I expect it was one of the conditions of his staging the coup. Amazing how it was all off the ground in the blink of an eye
14:09
just in time for Mr Burnham's long weekend. Let's go to Alan Imprestwich, who is a councillor in Manchester
14:15
Alan, are you in favour of the number 10 of the North? All right, I can't, how are you
14:20
I'm all right, yeah, it's fine. Yeah, well, Vanessa, let me tell you what happened to me
14:24
I chair Greater Manchester Waste, and I had a meeting with a minister in London a couple of weeks ago
14:29
Just past Stafford, the train stopped. Yeah. For 90 minutes. Because we had cows on the line
14:38
Nice. So even though that meeting was put back, I missed it
14:42
Now, that's one good reason to have number 10 in the north
14:47
and have more meetings in the north. But why wouldn't it just happen the same way the other way around
14:50
Whoever's coming up from London for the meeting will get stuck with the same sheep on the same line, won't they
14:55
Well, yes. Why is that better? Why is that any better? It's exactly the same
15:01
It's exactly the same whichever way you're going, whether you're going north to south or south to north
15:05
What difference? Well, yeah, I've got a decent point. But it is frustrating
15:11
Obviously, one of Andy's points is that we are going to nationalise the race
15:16
and starting to do that. But why not have number 10 in the north
15:19
Because, I mean, half the cabinet's around Greater Manchester. And, you know, there is that Westminster bubble
15:26
There is that detachment, these civil servants. It's never been north of Watford Gap
15:31
So, yeah, we should be moving more and more things. and not just in Manchester, in Merseyside, in Newcastle
15:37
Sunderland, round the North East. We should be moving things out of London. Why
15:42
Why? Because these civil servants you deal with haven't got a clue about the North
15:48
What do they need to know that they don't know? What can you tell us that we should know that we might not know
15:54
Well, we actually exist up here. But you don't seriously think that people don't think that that's a fact, do you
16:01
Well, my daughter went to St Andrews University, she was talking to someone and they said
16:07
are you from Manchester? She said yes no So you live in a council house then on the council estate She went no not really And this is this view sometimes of the north of you know north of Watford Gap of Birmingham
16:20
Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Sunderland. So, you know, I think it's a great idea
16:25
I mean, getting, moving more and more departments. Gordon Brown had it with the BBC, put it in Salford
16:31
Yeah, and I think lots of people thought it was the most terrible idea and still do, that it was kind of performative
16:35
All it meant was that all the people who were in London had to keep going up to Manchester
16:40
And it was the same people. They were just, you know, either getting a train up or a train back
16:46
or having to stay the weekend and come back again and go up again. I remember when I used to do years in 1992
16:52
although I know I look much too young, and I know you're going to tell me that, Alan, because you're a charming fellow. But in 1992, I used to do Richard and Judy, you know
16:58
this morning at the Albert Dock in Liverpool. And the plane, the flight up
17:05
because you used to get flown up in those days from Heathrow, and the flight up, which you had to land in Manchester
17:10
and then be driven to Liverpool all the way across the doodahs. It took absolutely forever to get there
17:14
And the flight was completely full of people being flown from London
17:18
to be on that programme. And I don't just mean the guests, I mean the wardrobe people
17:22
and the make-up artists and the hair people and all of the guests and the politicians
17:27
Everybody was being flown up to Liverpool from London every day and then flown back again in the afternoon
17:32
What was the point in the end? They moved it down to London. Yeah, but when we did create Media City, that turned an area of Salford
17:40
that was absolute derelict, into, you know, it's got the ITV there
17:46
it's got ITV there, it's got BBC, it's got independent producers. The area's been transformed, and they've transformed the old docks
17:53
Salford Quay, is around there. They put a tram system, they were running trams into there
17:58
But, you know, that investment in the moving the BBC and ITV, Sue, followed
18:05
absolutely transforms all of it. And it needs more of it. Let's talk to Sue in East Grinstead about this
18:10
Sue, what do you think? Well, hi, Vanessa. Hi. I'm a southerner through and through
18:15
Uh-huh. I think it's a great idea. Oh, why? Well, to be honest, I think Andy should be even more radical
18:24
and not use number 10 or 11 in London. He could either sell them off and give the money to Angela Rayner
18:32
to put in a housing budget. What, for her own houses? You mean for that lovely flat in Brighton or Hove or wherever it was
18:38
So she could add to her housing, give the number to Angela Rayner so she can buy a few more houses to live in for her family and friends
18:43
Is that what you mean? Exactly. Gosh, nice. Or he could turn them into houses of multiple occupation
18:51
and put the homeless in there. Ah, yeah. I mean, there's lots and lots of things that he could do
18:56
and we don't really need those houses in London. He's got checkers
19:00
He's got loads of meeting rooms in the House of Commons. I mean, he could even use Buckingham Palace
19:05
because Charles doesn't seem to want to use it. Also true, yes. Going begging
19:10
So what he needs to do is find a big old Victorian building
19:14
in the cheapest part of the north of England, somewhere near a good train station and a good airport
19:22
turn it into a proper number 10 of the north but don't call it number 10 of the north just call it
19:29
number 10 of the whole place you know we don't i don't really like this north south divide to be
19:35
honest i think there's a lot to be said for the north you know down here in the south we suffer
19:39
with house prices i mean if he could change things so the house prices in the south were reduced
19:46
that would be great i mean it needs to work both ways we need things people in the north need
19:51
things and they're very welcome to have 10 Downing Street up there. I have no problems with that at
19:56
all. And the cost? Well the cost I think will be cheaper because surely the real estate is cheaper
20:02
there. I would imagine wages are less in the north. I've no experience but if houses are cheaper in
20:09
the north than you know I would imagine that wages are less. We don't want all the security
20:16
police in the north looking after Downing Street of the north and all the security people in the
20:21
south looking after Downing Street in the south and then there's all the other entourage of
20:26
catering and every other service that goes with these two places. We just don't need it. Just one
20:33
place and they're very welcome to have it in the north. And tell me how you're feeling so far about
20:37
an Andy Burnham prime ministership. I really like it and I'm just hoping that he's going to use our
20:45
assets. I mean, schools need some more money. I mean, why can't the schools be used when they're
20:50
closed? I'm hoping it'll bring things in like that. You know, parents really struggle in the
20:54
summer holidays, what to do with childcare and some children don't even get a meal, they say
21:00
in the summer holidays. Why can't we use the school buildings when the school isn't using them
21:06
You can have yoga classes, table things, whatever you like and need, anything that brings in extra
21:10
money that can go into the school's budgets. Well that sounds like a good idea
21:15
Is there any side at all that Andy Burnham's thinking along those lines or is that just you being inspired and thinking that yourself
21:20
I think he needs to appoint me as his assistant and then I can help him. You sound as if you wouldn't do any harm
21:25
It sounds as if you bring some excellent common sense and a good perspective. What do you actually do
21:29
What is your job? I'm retired. I'm an oldie. God you shouldn't be
21:33
You need to be the old hands on deck and some of the hands need to be yours
21:37
You obviously know exactly what to do
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