Up next in 10
This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 12th of May, 2026. 00:00 – How did we end up here? 01:29:05 - Reform Councillors in Doncaster U-turn on ‘rescinding’ money for airport reopening with one going off-script on unidentified aerial phenomena as a reason for caution - Alex Taylor-Brown, LBC's Yorkshire correspondent 01:39:36 – Who do you want to be PM? 02:17:43 - EXCL: Reform Councillor suspended after LBC revealed social media post showing bombing of Mecca - Thea Rickard, LBC's reporter in the South West Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #jamesobrien #politics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Three minutes after ten is the time a minister has resigned, which is a moment of significance when it comes to the vultures circling
0:12
A still, what's the word I want, a still twitching prime minister, but it isn't a good sign, obviously
0:21
Do you ever get haunted by television sort of catchphrases or television moments
0:25
Is it because of social media? Is it because of memes? Is it because things get clipped up
0:30
and therefore they assume a place in our consciousness that they wouldn't have assumed back in the day
0:34
You can probably only name sort of three or four moments from television in the pre-meme era that could be loosely described as immortal
0:42
We mentioned the elephant in the Blue Peter studio, didn't we? There's Del Boy falling through the bar on Only Fools and Horses
0:48
or, in fact, probably two from that series. There's the Batman and Robin sequence as well from the Christmas special
0:55
But it's pretty hard, isn't it, in the days before memes, to think of the things that have become immortal
1:02
the moments that have become immortal. This morning, I don't know if you watched Succession
1:07
or indeed if you've listened to the full disclosure interview with Brian Cox, who played Logan Roy
1:11
but this morning I'm haunted by this moment. But you are not serious people
1:18
But also, as I prepared to talk to you about Keir Starmer's latest travails
1:23
that classic Mitchell and Webb moment when they are dressed as Nazis
1:29
and sort of survey the situation, the unfolding military situation, and David Mitchell turns to Robert Webb, I think
1:38
and says, are we the baddies? And you might be a little puzzled by the second one
1:47
but not, I presume, by the first one. The second one is because I am, for good or for ill
1:51
and I hope that this doesn't come as a major surprise to anybody. I am a member of the media
1:58
And sometimes I feel as though I have one foot in and one foot out
2:05
I will resist any urge to shake it all about for the duration of this morning's programme, I promise you
2:10
But I don't like the... Oh, and the chandelier as well, of course
2:14
You know, Only Fools and Horses is extraordinary. It was like the pre-meme machine
2:19
The pre-meme meme machine. I am obviously a member of the media
2:24
but the one thing I'm not very good at, I'm not a normal member of the media. I don't go to the parties
2:29
I don't really have the politicians in the studio anymore. Not on a sort of rotating regular basis
2:35
whatever party they're from, although my door is always open for some of them
2:40
I don't like getting engaged in the Westminster shenanigans. I can tell when somebody's gone a little bit native
2:47
because they start writing and talking a language I don't fully understand
2:54
And it is a language that they all speak and talk. This isn't a criticism of anybody by any stretch of the imagination
3:02
Quite possibly it's a criticism of me. But it just means that I sometimes think
3:07
that the Westminster bubble, as we call it, can be somewhat detached from reality
3:18
and the tragedy of course for our country is is that the Westminster bubble is not necessarily defined
3:26
but in large part constructed of people who are part of the problem
3:31
I mean through no fault of their own, I don't want to make this personal, if my career had gone differently I would be absolutely in the category that I'm describing now
3:39
But no decent democracy would have allowed Brexit, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss
3:47
to be anointed and cheered into the heart of our democracy. No country with a fully functioning media
3:56
could possibly have voted for Brexit because it was so obviously a stupid thing to do
4:01
Could possibly have put Boris Johnson in power. The same is true of the United States of America, by the way
4:05
We're not special. Because he was so obviously morally bankrupt and hideously incapable of lying straight in bed
4:12
The pretense this morning from the people who brought you Brexit, Boris Johnson and Liz trust
4:17
that Keir Starmer is somehow part of the same pattern is as obnoxious as it is, hilarious isn't it
4:23
you know, Boris Johnson had to leave as Prime Minister because his own party
4:29
had reached a point of such disgust with his moral depravity and dishonesty
4:35
that he couldn't even assemble a cabinet this is a man who put Nadine Dorries
4:39
in his first cabinet, so he wasn't exactly averse to scraping whatever it is that
4:43
lies beneath the bottom of a barrel but by the time he went he couldn't even persuade the flotsam and jetsam of his own ludicrous
4:51
filleted party to join a cabinet because after the chris pincher affair they knew it would just
4:57
be a matter of time before there was another lie another massive scandal that would come around
5:02
and bite them all on the backside and then liz truss of course greeted with um cheers and ticker
5:09
by the Daily Mail and others, turned out, as anybody who understood anything, frankly
5:16
could have predicted, turned out to be an absolutely catastrophic decision. That's the media we've got
5:21
It keeps putting people and things in front of us that look shiny, so we vote for them
5:28
and then once we voted for them, they don't look shiny at all. They are things that hurt us
5:33
but you don't need to be a fully paid-up member of Marxism today
5:37
to have clocked the fact that the very, very rich people somehow managed to keep getting richer
5:41
while everybody else is getting poorer. And that is not unrelated. It's part of the reason why Zach Polanski, more on whom later
5:48
has managed to assume the sort of mantle of lazy leftish populism
5:55
Because it's a big gap, and one that Keir Starmer was never going to fill
5:59
simply because you can't really be a populist in power. And if you are a populist in power
6:06
You need a population to be so dishonest and deluded that it would, for example, keep buying MAGA hats
6:12
despite the fact that the bloke who brought you MAGA has reneged or betrayed on pretty much every single electoral promise that he made
6:20
But never mind. So it's a weird point in proceedings. I, as a member of the media
6:28
and listen, when I say that, I don't just mean people getting paid to do this. I also mean the people who are fully plugged in
6:34
In many ways, the typical LBC listener is a lot more plugged in to political discussion and political commentary
6:40
than the person who is currently watching Lorraine or Good Morning Britain
6:46
or whichever of those programmes is on at the moment. You are by definition more engaged in this
6:52
We don't do, you know, there's a soap opera going out with some, soap star going out with someone or an influencer jumping out of an aeroplane
6:59
We talk about the news and the news is almost always politics. so
7:06
I have mornings and moments where I catch myself and I can't come over a little bit
7:15
David Mitchell I just sort of think are we the enemy by having a conversation
7:19
and today is only partly one of those days because we obviously have to talk about this today
7:25
and I want to and it could be that by the end of the programme today the writing isn just on the wall for the Prime Minister but it being bellowed at a thousand decibels
7:36
up and down the country or it could be that we're still in a holding pattern
7:42
and the King's speech is tomorrow he'll sit tight, hope to sweat it out
7:47
and somehow live to fight another day I'd bet against that personally at the moment
7:53
I don't think you'll see blood on the carpet this morning, but I think you might see a road map for a seemly departure by the end of this week
8:01
And it's a media frenzy, inevitably. But what are the public actually thinking
8:08
What would be achieved by getting rid of Keir Starmer as Prime Minister
8:13
What would it change? So it's always self-interest that drives politicians. It's weird, isn't it
8:18
Because the offence of the Prime Minister can be very, very different. You can be a serial liar like Boris Johnson
8:25
You can be an economic hand grenade like Liz Truss. Or you can be someone perceived as being ineffective and weak like Keir Starmer
8:34
But what motivates the abandonment of the project in all three of those cases is self-interest
8:39
It is politicians essentially deciding that their own chances of survival at the next ballot
8:44
are being diminished by the bloke or the woman in the top job as opposed to enhanced
8:49
it's why they put up with a Trump or a Johnson I don't care if he's a liar if the public are lapping this stuff up
8:55
then I'm absolutely on board I'm four square behind it I love the guy because he is enhancing my chances
9:00
of getting re-elected at the next general election it's only when they feel that the balloon has burst
9:05
or that the bubble has popped that they will start abandoning a bandwagon
9:09
that they had jumped onto with often unseemly alacrity so they are abandoning Keir Starmer
9:14
in close to their droves because they think that somebody else will give them a better chance
9:21
of keeping their seat at the next general election. And again, that's not a criticism
9:25
That's not an opinion. That's just counting. That is literally what they are doing
9:30
But what is likely to change? And why have we found ourselves in this curious space
9:41
And what confidence do you have that things will get better if there is indeed a change of personnel
9:48
We will do what we are required to do on mornings like this and cross live to Downing Street
9:52
where LBC's political editor, Natasha Clark, awaits. And it is categorically one of those mornings
9:57
when, having come on air shortly after 10 o'clock and crossing to Natasha shortly before quarter past
10:02
it's perfectly conceivable that something's happened I'm not yet aware of. Natasha, what's the latest
10:07
James, the latest in Downing Street. And we are seeing that the Cabinet has now started
10:14
Keir Starmer is hosting his top team in the building just behind me
10:18
But this morning, the latest news that we have from inside that room is that the Prime Minister is hanging on to power
10:25
He has told a meeting of Cabinet this morning, I take responsibility for the election results and for delivering the change we promised
10:32
He also goes on to say the Labour Party has a process for challenging a leader and that has not been triggered
10:41
The country expects us to get on with governing. That is what I'm doing and what we must do
10:45
It has a cabinet. So a message there to anybody thinking about trying to oust him as prime minister
10:51
All of his cabinets we know have gathered today to hear what he had to say
10:56
West Streeting was, of course, the person that everybody is waiting to hear from
11:00
And the question now as we go into this morning and potentially this afternoon is, is West Streeting going to act
11:07
because we know now that there are 81 MPs that want to see Keir Starmer stand down
11:12
However, they are not all behind West Streeting, it's fair to say. Some of them want to wait for Andy Burnham to get back to Parliament
11:19
and some of them haven't made clear who they would back in a potential leadership process. They just say that the Prime Minister's time is up
11:25
So as it stands today at 10.15, it's still not clear what's going to happen today
11:31
And I don't think anybody, James, that tells you that they know what's going to happen today, they absolutely can't they just can't nobody knows what's going to happen it is so
11:39
febrile sombre in Downing Street today and I've heard reports of people crying in Downing Street
11:46
advisors getting upset I've heard reports this morning from my sources saying that cabinet
11:51
ministers are desperately ringing around junior ministers to try and find out if they're about to
11:55
resign or not we've obviously had the first one of them already come in but it's so unpredictable
12:00
it's so tense I think it's fair to say James that nobody can predict exactly what's going to happen
12:07
and of course in these moments it's always very difficult if not impossible
12:11
to establish the kind of numbers behind the notion of Keir Starmer fighting on
12:16
and you know people nailing their colours to his mask in expectation of him leading them into another general election
12:22
because that cohort exists absolutely and we heard from Lisa Nandy yesterday
12:27
the Culture Secretary, she refused to say that Keir Starmer would lead into the next election
12:32
And I think privately that is exactly what many Cabinet ministers, what many Labour MPs think
12:37
And it's not a question of when Sir Keir Starmer is going to go. It's a question of if Sir Keir Starmer is going to go
12:43
It's a question of if, sorry, when exactly that happens. So, sorry, you know
12:48
Don't worry, it's a very tense moment. Getting giddy with all the excitement here in Downing Street
12:53
Everybody thinks that Keir Starmer is going to go before the next election. we don't know when we don't know how and we don't know who's going to replace him but it is
13:00
probably going to happen i think it is incredibly unlikely that prime ministers could turn things
13:05
around where they are looking so dire when the polls are so bad and when you are losing seat
13:09
after seat after seat council after council and your mps are saying to you they want to see more
13:15
from you kirstama had his chance yesterday to win them over he categorically didn't what's the um
13:22
Well, what's the sort of big fish? It's a cabinet-level resignation, isn't it, really, that we're looking for next
13:28
Otherwise, this sense of almost torpor or this sense of prolonged torture persists
13:38
but a cabinet-level resignation is impossible to ignore. Absolutely. I think that could change the game, a cabinet minister resignation
13:45
and we could get that today. We will be looking for the likes of Shabana Mahmood
13:49
who we hear according to reports said to the Prime Minister last night when she was at Number 10
13:55
that she thinks that he should set out a timetable for departure. We also, of course, may hear from West Reading today, now speaking to MPs that are close to him
14:04
And at the moment, they believe that he does not still want to be the one to wield that knife
14:08
and to actually launch a leadership challenge, even though he clearly does want to run to be Prime Minister
14:13
So the question is, will he resign to launch that leadership challenge
14:17
I think there is a lot of reservation there, James, because you and I know that the people that so often wield the knife do not wear the crown
14:26
And West Streeting very much is in that bag. He doesn't want to be the person that brings down this government
14:32
And this morning we've just had a message on social media from Steve Reid, the cabinet minister, who has just said on social media
14:40
This is not a game. This instability has consequences for people's lives. The people who will be hurt most will be those that elected us less than two years ago
14:47
We must unite behind the Prime Minister. And that is the people to whom I will be talking this morning, of course
14:52
the people who voted for this man to be their Prime Minister And less than two years after he arrived in Downing Street they are being told by the members of his own party the Parliamentary Labour Party that their desires are not to be fulfilled
15:10
But of course, we've got no way of knowing how many people will welcome that. Well, feel free to send me a question instead of an answer. I've got a few written down in front of me
15:18
I think sometimes at moments like this it's worth coming back to basics, as it were
15:23
at risk of channeling John Major, a prime minister who I can see more similarities with regarding Keir Starmer
15:28
than a lot of the more recent incumbents of Downing Street. I mean, why is he in so much trouble
15:35
It is genuinely worth asking that question. A landslide, albeit a loveless one, a landslide that allowed them to do pretty much whatever they wanted
15:45
And I do this, as you know, for a living. and I still can't really tell you
15:50
I can point at mistakes, but I can't point at themes. Why is Keir Starmer in so much trouble
15:57
0345 6060 973. One of the main things, and I think this probably is another parallel with John Major
16:07
it's very hard to imagine anybody saying to you, in all seriousness
16:12
I love Keir Starmer because... And then adding a dot, dot, dot
16:17
I think one of the great tragedies of modern politics, post-Brexit politics, is that we've, as a population, sort of fallen into the trap of thinking that an outward veneer, usually fraudulent, of bonhomie, is somehow preferable to dullness
16:36
but Keir Starmer's dullness has not delivered the things that dullness was supposed to deliver
16:41
it was supposed to deliver competence it was supposed to deliver efficiency
16:45
it was supposed to deliver results and tangible improvements so you'd say he might not be the greatest orator in history
16:53
and you wouldn't necessarily want to go for a pina colada with him at the dog and duck
16:57
but this is what we need we need a managerial prime minister
17:02
because that's how you get things done And, of course, that hasn't happened
17:07
But there are also questions about what the country, what state the country is in
17:12
We have become addicted to this madness and this drama. It's ugly
17:16
I can't remember what life was like before 2016, before the British public was given permission
17:21
to believe whatever it wanted to believe, regardless of facts and evidence. But I don't think Starmer is a victim of that
17:27
I do, for the absolute avoidance of doubt, I think Starmer has been close to disastrous in this role
17:34
and that hopium that we get high on when we convince ourselves that improvement is just around the corner
17:40
or we look at some of the legislation that's been brought in and reassure ourselves that this is what Labour governments are supposed to do
17:47
I'm afraid you have to be almost overdosing on hopium not to accept that that list is chronically overshadowed
17:53
by all the bad stuff whether political or personal The idea that Keir Starmer has either delivered on the dullness premium or taken advantage of that massive majority is, it's just pie in the sky
18:09
And what he asked you to do yesterday was to give him another chance to sort of reset a reset
18:16
I can fully understand why people have run out of patience. the two things I can't do
18:20
are properly track where the Labour voting public lie how they will respond to being told
18:29
we're getting rid of the bloke that you voted for and replacing him with someone else I don't know how that plays
18:35
I don't know whether it makes things worse for the party to engage in a round of very conservative
18:40
flavoured infighting and inter-Nissan warfare and the other thing I don't know
18:46
is whether or not there is any confidence out there that this would make things better
18:51
One thing I do know that was missing from Natasha's ysis is that if Wes Streeting has trouble convincing the parliamentary Labour Party
18:57
that he should be the next Prime Minister, just you wait and see. I'll tell you now that the broader membership of the Labour Party
19:03
is shouting, hold my pint, in the loudest of voices, because the idea of Wes Streeting getting through the national membership
19:13
is slim to invisible. So, main question, first hour, why is Keir Starmer in so much trouble
19:22
And you can go as deep or as shallow as you like on that. Why is Keir Starmer in so much trouble
19:28
Second question, as a sort of slightly light-hearted side order, is I love Keir Starmer because..
19:34
I mean, is there anybody in that category? People loved Margaret Thatcher
19:39
Hard to imagine anyone loving John Major. You could possibly... I love John Major because he was son of the bus driver
19:44
and he proved that anybody can be prime minister in this country. I love Keir Starmer because people loved Boris Johnson
19:51
because they liked being lied to. People loved Nigel Farage because, like Donald Trump
19:56
he excuses and legitimises their racism, their misogyny, their climate change denial, their homophobia, their transphobia
20:02
More on the latest reform roundup later in the programme. But I love Keir Starmer because..
20:08
Are there ever any positives on the end of that sentence for politicians
20:12
I love Barack Obama because he gives me hope. I love so-and-so because at least he's honest
20:18
I love Keir Starmer because... So have a go at that, but main question this hour
20:22
why is Starmer in so much trouble? With a little apology from me that this clip from Succession
20:27
is running through my consciousness this morning like Blackpool through a stick of rock
20:33
James O'Brien on LBC. 26 minutes after 10 is the time. What I really want is the nailed-on anatomical ysis of what's gone wrong
20:44
Because the phrase I loved in the run-up to Keir Starmer's election
20:47
was the one about the Ming Vars, you know, carrying the Ming Vars across the ice rink
20:52
I don't even know what that is now. I've got one suggestion here that's quite amusing
20:56
that it turned out to be an empty vessel. It did, didn't it
21:01
That's really well put, actually. I sometimes think we can overextend our ogies
21:07
but the Ming vase was successfully carried across the ice ring, as Brian points out
21:12
But it's now become increasingly evident that it was not a Ming vase at all
21:16
It was just an empty vessel. Tony says Starmer is Reform UK's biggest recruiting sergeant
21:21
I need a little bit more flesh on those bones. And then Keith, not that one
21:25
picks up on a point that I touched on earlier. I tell you what we are thinking, James. Do you freaking mind
21:30
How about asking the people who voted for him what they think? This whole drama is driven by the blooming media
21:35
It's not, though, is it? It's the council election results last week that were, by any measure, catastrophic
21:41
It's the growing sense that he can't change, that he can't turn things around
21:47
That's where there is a parallel with Boris Johnson. Boris Johnson's moral corruption, he kept thinking, oh, he'll grow out of it, he'll move on
21:54
and it was clear that he never would. Keir Star, I mean, crikey, what would you rather have, a morally corrupt Prime Minister
21:59
or an ineffectual Prime Minister? It shouldn't really be even a question, should it
22:05
But if the ineffectiveness is baked in, if there is an increased perception that the
22:09
ineffectiveness isn't going to change, it's never going to get turned round
22:13
He's never going to deliver a speech that brings tears to your eyes and resolve to your heart
22:19
He can deliver whatever it is that represents the opposite of crass populism That is where patience runs out and self kicks in And I do think that where we are Although a quick nod to John who points out is it you sure it an empty vessel
22:36
It could be a poisoned chalice. So, question number one, why is Starmer in so much trouble
22:44
03456060973. And I think possibly the more interesting answers there come from people who hoped for much more than this
22:51
as opposed to people from either side of the political divide who were prejudiced before he got elected and remain prejudiced now
22:58
It's that combination of opportunity, landslide and optimism that have been squandered in record time
23:05
And then I've got that little voice in the back of my head wondering how much of that is a consequence of coverage
23:10
and how much of that is on the media. But I don't want to go there yet. I want to look at why precisely he is in so much trouble
23:16
Your diagnosis, if you like, of the current malaise. And then I love Keir Starmer because I just can't really see what follows that because in a meaningful way
23:29
because he's not so-and-so or because he didn't do this. That's not a reason to love someone
23:34
You don't love someone because they crossed the road at the right time or bought biscuits last night
23:39
Love has to go deeper than that. Maybe it's a ridiculous aspiration or ambition to have for a politician
23:45
but it seems to be a relevant one. And then later in the programme, we're probably going to look at who would be better and why
23:51
because my feeling this morning is that it's not necessarily... The fat lady is gargling, is what I would say to you
24:00
I don't think she's singing yet, but she is most definitely doing her vocal warm-ups
24:05
And I don't think anything will happen before the King's speech is delivered
24:10
but I do think if I had to put money on something, and don't shoot me, but I'm 52-48
24:15
a plan for a peaceful departure will be in place by the end of the week
24:20
although right now at half past 10 on tuesday may the 12th 2026 kirstama is not intending to put his
24:28
signature to that plan the plan becomes uh real when he feels he has no other choice and right now
24:35
he is saying to people who uh aspire to his crown come and get it i'm not giving it to you
24:42
i'm not giving it to you without a fight if you want it come and get it and then you're left
24:48
wondering about the character and calibre of potential candidates like Andy Burnham, Wes Streeting, Angela Rayner
24:56
And remember, quite possibly, somebody whose name doesn't immediately spring to mind at this moment
25:02
but may turn out to be something of a David Cameron candidate when everybody thought that David Davis
25:06
was about to be anointed as leader of the Tories. Half past ten is the time
25:11
Dominic Ellis has your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC. You need a button on days like today
25:18
My apologies to Claire and Sue and Mo and Stu and Spencer and Colin and Alan and James
25:23
and Chris and Sean and many others who are waiting to contribute to this programme and I haven't let them yet
25:27
I need a button because I just took a deep breath and I thought, oh, and another thing. But I think it's time we took some calls
25:33
And indeed, we'll go first to Sue in Rochdale. Sue, congratulations. Oh, right. Congratulations on what
25:41
Rochdale just got promoted back to the Football League. Oh, yes, absolutely. Oh, my goodness, was it not nail-biting
25:46
Up the dale, Sue. Up the dale. Up the blooming dale. Up the dale, yes
25:50
What made you pick up the phone today? Well, I'm a Labour member, Labour activist
25:57
and I've got kind of thoughts on what's gone wrong. Yes. And one of the main things, it's nuanced, it's not just one thing
26:06
but one of the big things for me is about communication. And what's been really poor has been the story writing
26:15
and the storytelling. Because this Labour government has done a lot of good things
26:22
but it has not been communicated well. That's in terms of how it's been
26:28
written in the first place, sometimes the timing of communications, but certainly then, of course, the delivery
26:36
I don't think Keir Starmer is a bad person at all. Not do I
26:40
I just don't think he is a good leader. When did you arrive at that conclusion? I sense reluctantly
26:48
It was reluctantly, I voted for him to be leader I think it was around how he was unable to be relatable
27:02
It didn't matter how he tried to change his style or talk about his family
27:06
which I know he hates doing, it's not his style he just wasn't relatable
27:12
I still think he's a good person. It's brutal, that, isn't it? Because I know that you're deeper than this
27:18
but it is recognising that elections or political battles in many ways are beauty contests now
27:23
Absolutely. Because the public has become really used to having a bit more of a personality leader
27:31
They're sold on charisma, which is no substitute for character, as we know
27:37
Quite the opposite. But actually a leader does need to have something to fire people up, to get them going
27:47
I remember the joy when the Blair government came in. I mean, I fell out of love with him in the latter days
27:53
But that sense of optimism, that joy, that May morning when they had won was phenomenal
28:02
We didn't get that this time, partly because I think the voters
28:09
a lot voted for Labour, but a lot voted against the Tories
28:13
It was an exhaustion of patience in many ways. And unfortunately, Farage could benefit from that as well
28:21
He could get the hangover of the same exhaustion. Oh, well, just let someone else have a go
28:26
Because what we've had for 14 years is so awful. What breaks my heart and does make me wonder
28:30
about the role that the media plays and does cast me in the role of David Mitchell
28:35
in that Mitchell and Webb sketch going, are we the baddies? What breaks my heart is the way in which
28:39
all of the people who said Brexit would be brilliant, Boris Johnson would be brilliant, Liz Truss would be brilliant
28:43
and of course, latterly, Donald Trump's going to be brilliant. They are all sharpening their knives
28:49
and coming for Keir Starmer. It doesn't mean that Keir Starmer should survive
28:52
but it makes a mockery of transparency, accountability, and current affairs coverage
28:59
in this country. I mean, it would be funny if it was happening somewhere else
29:03
You can literally burn down five houses and then claim that you speak for the people
29:08
when you come to burn down another one. Yes, and I think moving forward
29:13
the influence of the media, both mainstream and through the internet, social media is something that all parties need to look at
29:23
Because you can't win. I mean, I can't say it now because there's an ongoing court case
29:27
but some of the, I mean, I'd need a new repository instead of Idiot's Corner
29:31
but some of the lies involving Keir Starmer that are currently doing the rounds on far-right media
29:35
are so obviously nonsense and so obviously disproved that you can't believe anyone subscribes to them
29:41
until you look at what the same people have to say about vaccines and chemtrails. Thank you, Sue
29:46
I will ask you, you don't have to answer because it's early doors, but you will have a vote if there is another election
29:51
Let's presume all obvious contenders have their hats in the ring, possibly including the Prime Minister, who knows
29:57
Um, who would you pump for? Why? I honestly don't know at this point
30:03
Fair enough, good for you. We need more people like you. I think it's a little bit worrying that Andy Burnham might be put in a position
30:11
where he has to fight a seat which in the current climate could be unwinnable
30:15
Yeah, and of course it frees up a vacancy for Mayor of Manchester as well. So, you know, you think that line about, well, things can't get any worse
30:23
it's almost always false. Quite. Anyway, thank you, James. Thank you, Sue
30:28
And once again, congratulations to the Dale. My late friend Andy would have been absolutely beside himself with joy at that result
30:34
I missed him very, very much when that final penalty was taken
30:38
Alan is in Wandsworth, former Labour Party honcho. Alan, what's gone wrong
30:43
Good morning. Can I just say, Sue, brilliant, great call. She was, wasn't she? Yeah, very measured
30:48
She'd never get a column in the British media with a measured lack of certainty like that
30:53
But go on. Can I also say thank you to her for reminding me of those heady days back in May 1997
30:59
One of the most joyous days of my life was handing out those flags in Downing Street
31:04
Yeah, you can say thank you to that. Because she's dead right, isn't it? It was a completely different feeling, a completely different story
31:11
People were storming out or pouring out onto the streets. And that, to a certain extent, actually is part of the problem
31:17
um kia was sold by people who are harking back to those heady days he was sold in the election
31:25
as a man of change when actually he probably should have been sold as a man of solidity
31:31
of managerial style of of being a trusted legal figure yeah and that set up expectations when he
31:39
came into office but but he turned up i'm afraid to say without really a plan and one of the things
31:45
one of the things that will probably haunt him eventually was his comment to somebody
31:50
when he said that when I go, there'll be no such thing as Starmerism
31:55
I think that was the first time I went, oh, no. Don't say it out loud, even if it's true
32:00
Yeah, and then he started off with a massive, huge dose of doom and gloom
32:05
So we came in with all of this excitement and change, and yeah, when we got rid of the Tories
32:10
and then he said, oh, woe is us, and it's going to take another 50 years or something to change it
32:15
I don't know. And then the first thing he did was a winter fuel allowance. That is still being brought up on the doorsteps, still being brought up
32:22
It was so completely at odds with what was expected. Exactly. What do you think happened there
32:27
What do you think it was, a rush of blood to whose head? I mean, I wasn't close to any of this, but I can only think they thought
32:36
let's get the pain early. Let's get the pain out of the way early and quick
32:40
But it set the tone. It set the tone and it's been hanging around their neck ever since
32:46
And as Sue was saying, storytelling, story writing, story delivery, Keir talks inauthentically, I'm afraid
32:55
He's trying to talk as a politician when he isn't really. And that's not a bad thing
33:00
He doesn't have to be a politician. But make a virtue of it rather than a millstone
33:06
Every politician has got to perform, every presenter has got to perform themselves
33:10
They've got to give a performance, but it's got to be a performance of themselves. And he should be performing himself how he is
33:17
And I watched him in his speech yesterday, and his intonation wasn't right
33:22
And, I mean, I think I'd have just stood there with my hands in my pockets and talked instead of having a podium and an autocue
33:28
He could have talked from the heart. And within all of this, everything he's doing
33:33
we are living at a time when we live amongst the politics of grievance
33:38
Yes, of course we are. Go on. And that, I think, stems from the expenses scandals of the MPs
33:48
and the financial crash when no one was held to account. Everyone seemed to get away with it
33:53
There was no reckoning, and the public are still desperate for that reckoning
33:58
And then you've got social media and parties such as Farage's Reform
34:02
that are able to exploit these politics of grievance. Always the way
34:07
And, yeah, and, you know, anger, disappointment, anxiety, mistrust, being ignored. And, of course, you know, you're going to have client journalists and various propagandists
34:18
pretending that a few pairs of spectacles are comparable to a secret £5 million
34:22
But still, the spectacles were a misstep, an avoidable misstep. I mean, you know, I don't think it is unreasonable to say
34:28
all right, you've just got to be squeakier than clean. Don't do anything without imagining what the Daily Mail will do with it
34:34
Yes. So just don't do that. There you go. It's fairly straightforward. I would do anything for Labour, but I won't do that
34:39
you might have concluded, had Meatloaf still being with us. Alan, thank you. Alan Barnard. Quite a moment, that, wasn't it
34:44
Quite an image he conjured up of being one of the people handing out the flags at Downing Street when Tony Blair arrived for what failed at the time
34:50
and still feels, in retrospect, rather like a coronation. It's taken less than two years for Keir Starmer's crown to slip
34:55
and it may yet fall. I want to know why. It can't just be communication and storytelling, can it
35:01
As Alan reminds us, the Winterfueler Downs was an epic misstep, even as loyalists for whom I have nothing but sympathy
35:07
and a modicum of admiration still refuse to admit the scale of that error
35:11
And everything gets exaggerated. Everything gets embellished by the media. The idea that anybody with a straight face
35:17
can pretend that Nigel Farage's secret £5 million from a bloke set to make billions
35:21
if Farage becomes Prime Minister is comparable to some spectacles in a suit
35:25
from a parliamentary colleague. That's a mark of how mad everything is. But remember, and this really matters
35:31
that's the country Keir Starmer sought to govern. It's not good enough to say, oh, he was on a hiding to nothing
35:38
That's so hypocritical. And look at the double standards. That's all true
35:42
The double standards are visible from space. It is absolutely despicable that people who brought you Brexit
35:48
Boris Johnson, Liz Truss and cheerlead for Donald Trump are now claiming some sort of moral outrage
35:54
or democratic mandate for getting rid of Keir Starmer. But that's the country he sought to govern
36:00
That's what he signed up for. That's what he needs to tackle. It is not a tactic to say, I wish things weren't like that
36:06
So they'll carry on. You know, open up your newspaper tomorrow, turn on your radio
36:11
there'll be somebody pretending that a couple of pairs of spectacles and a fancy suit are on the same moral page as a secret £5 million donation from a foreign-based billionaire
36:22
That's the stuff of collapsing democracies. Free spectacles are not the stuff of collapsing democracies, but that's where we are
36:31
That's the thing that he needed to cut through. That's the context, the environment that he somehow needed to triumph over
36:38
It is 10.45. Tom Swarbrick on LBC. That speech was the lukewarm
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39:27
James O'Brien on LBC 10.48 is the time You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
39:35
Where the questions sort of write themselves Really on days like today but there is a little bit of skill in getting it pitch perfect
39:42
Why is Starmer in so much trouble? Who would be better and why
39:47
The one that I haven't done enough of, and to be honest, my inbox is buzzing along a little bit too quickly
39:51
to keep track of the messages coming in. Perhaps we could... Can we collate them
39:55
Can we have a little collation of people answering that, I love Keir Starmer because..
40:00
With serious questions, and I'll take silly questions as well. Keith made a contribution to the production process today
40:05
When was the last time you did that, Keith? Do you think
40:10
Penguins. It was penguins. Yeah, before that? The point I'm making is that when it happens
40:16
it's very special. And Keith has pointed out that today is National Limerick Day
40:21
There once was a fellow called Keith who had the most extraordinary teeth
40:28
He'd munch on a penguin, and of course nothing rhymes with penguin, which goes to show how hard it is to write limericks
40:33
I might read out, I don't want to turn into North Norfolk Digital, but Keith tells me they're doing it everywhere else
40:38
They're doing it on Classic FM. They're doing it on Capital. Was Dan doing it on Classic FM
40:44
He's a proper grown-up journalist. Are we sure? Okay, doing it on Capital
40:48
Jordan was doing it, was he, reading out Limerick's on Capital? All right, well, I don't want to sort of stick out like a sore thumb
40:54
in the canteen later in the day, as if that were possible
40:59
So I may take... Limerick's about the situation that Kirstenmer currently finds himself in
41:04
And I will only read out good ones, which means there's a very real chance I won't read out any. OK, but there it is
41:09
Text it to 84850 or WhatsApp it to 0345 6060 973. And don't use AI
41:17
In fact, why did you say that? Because they weren't going to use AI. And now you've given them the idea that they can use..
41:22
Will we be able to tell if they'll use it? Don't use AI, all right
41:26
We might have a phone-in about AI once the political situation calms down. so I suspect it will probably be in about 2033
41:33
So do make a note of that in your diaries. Mo's in Birmingham. Mo, what made you pick up the phone
41:37
Hello, James. I think one of the things that has really impinged on his ability
41:43
to be an effective PM is I think... I don't think nine years is enough experience to be in Parliament
41:50
to understand politics, to understand the machinations of politics to then be able to be an effective PM
41:56
I think if you look at some of our most effective PMs that we've had in the last 40 years
42:02
Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown even, actually. Yeah, briefly. Yeah, briefly
42:10
But he did actually save the world's economy. I mean, it gets massively overlooked, again, as a consequence of our bent media
42:16
but that's really just a matter of historical fact. I think history will look on him very positively in 20, 30 years' time
42:24
when people really look at the crux of the matter. These people have been in Parliament for over a decade and a bit
42:31
They had actually, even before that, run, you know, for constituency races that they were going to lose
42:39
So they know the hardships, so they know what failure looks like. They've had to deal with it
42:44
They've known the machinations of what it takes to campaign and get a feel and an antenna of the people
42:51
and as a consequence react appropriately when they have the responsibility and power here
42:59
I don't think Starmer has that. You know, being parachuted into a very safe Labour seat
43:04
I don't think he fought a constituency fight before that as well. What you're saying is he's not a political animal
43:10
No, and I think that's important here, especially in this era where we're a bit of an inflection point here
43:16
Many of these people will have been born and known of an era where there wasn't 24-hour news coverage
43:23
there wasn't social media and so on, and their initial instincts may have been forged by that era
43:30
as opposed to what we're in now. Yeah, I mean, I suppose LBC, as ever, is a bit of an anomaly, isn't it
43:37
Because we'd have been doing 24-hour coverage of moments like this back in the day, even if nobody else was
43:42
True, but you would have been only London-based. I, Birmingham, may never have heard of you
43:46
Good God, Mo. Good God, what a hideous apocalypse that represents. Could you imagine not having ever heard of me
43:53
That would have been awful for you. I can't have a guy with Tommy's turned over there in terror. And I think with all that in mind, what I've just said
43:59
he has failed to do, I think, one thing abundantly clear to me
44:03
that has, I think, really hit his PM ship. He has not taken on his enemies head on
44:08
Who are his enemies? For me, and I'll give you a great example here. Before the election, the last election here
44:14
It had been abundantly clear that the Conservatives had led this country to the point of beyond breaking
44:21
Yes. Yet, our political classes, our media, even, let's say, I remember before Tony Blair became PM in 97 here, even the Sun had endorsed him
44:33
All of these media moguls had withheld their consent to Starmer being PM
44:40
Yeah. They held their breath. It's been abundantly clear to me and to many people that this same media class were never going to give him or the Labour Party and any guys a chance to succeed
44:52
Why not? They don want the reason No I know Well obviously that the obvious answer But what Because here a question Mo That actually is one of the things like a little pebble in my plimsoll Do you know what I mean
45:05
I think Starmer has been very, very disappointing to the point of disastrous
45:10
And I will hold that position and I will defend it against all comers. Doesn't mean I'll win, but that is where I am now
45:16
And I don't think I want him to lead Labour into the next general election. And then I do that little thing, because I still have my hopium drip
45:22
fixed up in the studio, where I think a little word appears in my head
45:26
unless, unless he does this or unless he does that. So I'm not 100% there, I probably never will be
45:32
because I'm frightened about what the alternative might be. But when you say that, the little pebble in my plimsoll
45:40
what are they so scared of from Keir Stoll? So we describe him as ineffectual
45:45
we describe him as having carried the Ming vase across the eyestring and then done nothing with it, we describe him as all of these things
45:51
So what are they so scared of? They're scared of an alternative voice being out there
45:57
however small, letting the public know, especially in this era of social media and so on
46:03
becoming more and more prominent, it would actually shed a light of how corrupt this class is
46:09
about how bent and how they're willing to drag this country to the pits of hell just so that they could be enriched
46:16
And that terrifies them. It terrifies his Trump. But he hasn't done that
46:22
No, he hasn't. And I think that's why, that's where I say that he hasn't been brave
46:26
He should have identified his opponents and had that seminal battle. He has got a great, stonking majority in Parliament
46:33
He would not have had a better opportunity to really, and I know this sounds dramatic in this sort of language
46:39
really nobble his opponents and let them know, I'm going to rule, I've got the ability to lead
46:45
and he hasn't done that. And, you know, another sort of are we the baddies moment for me at the moment
46:51
is that some slightly obvious and even perhaps glib suggestions about things that could have been done
46:59
and then you think, well, no, I'm a professional media commentator. I don't think you understand how complicated everything is
47:04
Leveson 2. Leveson 2 on day one. Yes. Just tell the newspapers, you're on flipping report card
47:12
Sort yourselves out, you corrupt liars. Leveson 2. Just do it. What's the worst that can happen
47:18
You think that the newspapers are going to go easy on you because you're not bringing in Leveson 2? Just do Leveson 2. Go after them
47:24
Absolutely. And, you know, he should have been highlighting constantly that these charlatans are responsible for where we are
47:30
And then go after the social media mogul. You allow stuff on your social media platform
47:35
that would actually constitute a criminal offence in this country and is indeed a criminal offence in this country
47:41
then you're on the hook. We'll do you for joint enterprise. So Elon Musk can go to jail for allowing those hideous comments
47:47
made by Lucy Conley to be put on. I don't know what would happen if you did these things
47:51
but I suppose we're describing the absence of dice being rolled, aren't we
47:55
I'll tell you what it does happen, and this would have helped him, especially in a crisis like what happened with Mandelson and so on
48:01
Everyone makes, you know, an error in judgment and everything else. It would have at least galvanized people..
48:08
You'd forgive it, mate. You'd forgive it. You'd forgive the missteps if there'd been some absolute dropkicks
48:13
yeah and his his fellow labor supporters the counselors the voters and someone would say you
48:19
know what he he has taken up this one hill a hill that we're you know find very important we feel
48:25
that there is an established establishment there that doesn't want a labor party or a labor government
48:30
to succeed he's taken them on heads on he's made a mistake but you know what we're human we're
48:36
prepared to forgive that mistake here and we're prepared to stand on this hill you know ahead of
48:42
He doesn't have that at this moment. He'll have time in. It is, I think, maybe a lack of political antenna to have that battle
48:49
Kinnock had it with militant. Tony Blair had it with clause four
48:54
Thatcher had it with the unions here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever side you're on, you can't dispute the conviction
49:01
Well, as leader of the opposition, I suppose he sanitised the Labour Party
49:04
of tolerance of and existence of anti-Semitism, and that is not to be diminished or misrepresented
49:12
but in power, nothing. Nothing on that page. And I don't know, maybe I am being a bit naive
49:17
but goodness me, everyone's allowed a break occasionally. Leveson too. What you do is you look at why the country is in such a mess
49:24
and the first answer to that question, unless you're going to reverse Brexit
49:29
is that people believe nonsense. So you have to start treating nonsense
49:32
with the content that it deserves. And that would involve actually holding social media platforms
49:38
to the same account that you hold mainstream media to and holding mainstream media to a higher account
49:44
And that was underway with Leveson. Leveson happened because they were hacking dead girls' phones
49:50
And the effort, the tanks that were moved onto the lawns of this country
49:53
by the media owners, the newspaper owners and their friends in broadcasting media
49:58
were absolutely immense. I can't remember who it was that finally buckled
50:02
under the weight of those attacks. I think it was Theresa May. But up until that point, there was at one point
50:08
unanimity on the need for press regulation to just stop these charlatans and liars from polluting
50:15
our public discourse and then along came elon musk and mark zuckerberg and they simply said hold my
50:20
shandy you think that's bad you think that pollutes public discourse have a look at what we're going
50:24
to do we're going to have people on our platforms calling for pogroms and then six months later
50:29
they're going to be invited onto stages at party conferences to receive standing ovations having
50:34
been released from jail. And the people who published that, the people who put that on platforms
50:39
they're just laughing and insulting this country from the other side of the Atlantic
50:43
And Starmer did nothing. James O'Brien on LBC. Once was a PM called Starmer
50:50
uninspiring, not really a charmer. His polling was poor, his party showed him
50:54
the door, he retired and became a donkey farmer. A lot of rhymes
50:58
with Starmer, Karma and Farmer so far. It's National Limerick Day, I haven't
51:02
gone completely mad. We're just collating a few more entries. I've instructed Amelia to bring through to the studio
51:08
only the ones that are either brilliant or appalling. The massive majority will fall somewhere between the two
51:15
I'm not sure that Connors actually does count as brilliant. It's definitely not appalling, but it doesn't quite scan Connors
51:21
He retired and became a donkey farmer. It's too many syllables. Three minutes after 11 is the time
51:29
On a more serious note, the report now is that Cabinet Ministers have rallied around Keir Starmer after a key meeting
51:37
despite the resignation of one minister, Mieta Van Bule. And, of course, a lot of noises off from the requisite number of MPs
51:47
to trigger a leadership challenge, but not without a challenger, lads. You can't trigger a leadership challenge without a bloomin' challenger
51:55
That's not an opinion, that's counting. And who is going to stick their head above the parapet
51:59
there was one post on Blue Sky yesterday which I felt really nailed things
52:06
this was given to Jessica Elgott who is, I mentioned yesterday that all the best political
52:11
journalists at the moment in this country are women I'm not suggesting that that is
52:16
I think it's a good thing, just as a feminist and as the father of daughters and whatever other
52:22
reason there may be, but it's also a mark of where the quality lies at the moment anyway one Labour MP got in touch with Jessica Elgort of The Guardian last night to say and this is great there a word here I can use Hang on Keith should we get a bleep ready pretend that we professionals
52:37
or shall I just wing it? Have you got a bleep ready? No? Okay, don't worry
52:41
We have to face up to... I'll just say the word then, and we'll see what Ofcom want to do about it
52:45
Is that all right with you, Eleanor? Yeah? Ready? We have to face up to the fact that every single one of them is... useless
52:52
Andy's strategy has been a disaster. Angela has bottled it, Ed's clearly on a hiding to nothing
52:56
Wes is AWOL and God knows what Catherine West is doing I'm not quite sure how we ended up here
53:00
to which my response was put them in charge put them in charge
53:05
anyway here is Wes Streeting talking to Natasha Clarke proving that although he hasn't technically gone AWOL
53:10
he kind of has Mr Streeting Mr Streeting have you got any words about the Prime Minister
53:19
should the Prime Minister go Wes Streeting Awol? I mean, he's there, technically, isn't he
53:30
But he's not plugged in, it wouldn't appear. That's a great line. That might kick off the second hour of the programme, actually
53:35
although plenty of people are still waiting to answer the questions we've already asked. We have to face up to the fact..
53:40
I worry about reading this repeatedly, because I might accidentally say the rude word in the middle of it
53:44
We have to face up to the fact that every single one of them is chuffing useless
53:49
a Labour MP almost said last night. Andy's strategy has been a disaster
53:53
That's Burnham. Angela has bottled it. That's Rainer. Ed clearly is on a hiding to nothing
53:59
That's Miliband. And Wes, that's treating, is AWOL. God knows what Catherine West is doing
54:03
She was the one sort of collecting signatures yesterday. I am not quite sure how we ended up here
54:10
Let's add that question to the list. So, why is Keir Starmer in such extraordinary trouble
54:16
And, of course, with the side order of should he be? Should he be
54:20
I'm saying yes mostly to that and it's not 52-48 that call from Mo in Birmingham
54:26
who was brilliant wasn't he I mean the thing you do in a country like this
54:31
as the author of a book called How They Broke Britain the first thing you should have done
54:36
is start swinging at the saboteurs start swinging at the arsonists start calling it out
54:43
rather than thinking oh it's just a temporary lapse in normality we'll be back to the days of Attlee
54:48
or we'll be back to the days of Wilson or Thatcher or Heath. We'll be back to normality
54:53
We'll be back to John Major. We just need to sit tight and turn a few knobs
54:58
Actually, no. You need to blow up the context in which a country could be turned into a place
55:05
where the population repeatedly votes against its own interests. And by hook or by crook
55:10
you've got yourself a massive majority of people voting for an end to what has gone before
55:15
and be aware that Nigel Farage is lurking over there as one of the most responsible figures
55:23
for the mess that the country is in, just saying, oh, well, maybe if we just had another go
55:27
with an even bigger liar, with someone who's even more associated with racism
55:31
and anti-Semitism and misogyny and climate change denial, someone who thinks Vladimir Putin is amazing
55:37
and Donald Trump is a mensch, if we could just maybe have one more go
55:42
at the madness and the corruption and the dishonesty and the racism
55:46
then everything would actually turn out brilliantly, just like we told you it would in 2016 when you voted for Brexit
55:51
and 2019 when you voted for Boris Johnson. And Starmer didn't do it
55:57
Listen, I may get another call in 10 minutes that sends me off in an entirely different direction
56:01
but at the moment I'm team Mo. You should have just done something
56:04
about the people that are doing this country down while claiming to be patriots
56:10
You should have done something about the newspapers. you should have done something about the social media platforms
56:15
You should have done something about the abject corruption of public discourse
56:20
Look at what the racists are saying about you right now on social media
56:23
inventing absolute pie-in-the-sky stories involving criminal cases that, I mean, five years ago even
56:32
ten years ago definitely, twenty years ago absolutely would have been laughed off the page
56:37
by anybody sentient in this country. But now, oh yes, it's a very, very valid talking point
56:44
There'll probably be a reform councillor popping up later claiming that it's true. It's as if chemtrails and vaccine conspiracists have been given the floor
56:54
And Keir Starmer turned up and just sort of went, well, you know, nobody agrees about everything
56:59
and what we need to do is put our shoulders to the wheel. Gee, beginning to think he never read my last book
57:06
It's ten minutes after eleven. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC. Let's add that question to the list
57:12
I am not quite sure how we ended up here. So this broadens out the issue from Starmer to Rayner to Miliband to Streeting to Burnham
57:24
I'm not quite sure how we ended up here. We are basically discussing a leadership crisis with no challenger
57:35
This is where I've got the David Mitchell thing kicking in again. Are we the enemy
57:40
Is this a leadership crisis caused largely by media coverage? No, because ATMPs have told Catherine West that they want him to move on
57:49
But what are they responding to? Self-interest or media coverage? This idea that, oh, look, here's another crisis
57:56
Dumpy, dumpy, dump. Listen, I'm weird, right? Crises are good for business
58:01
Very good for business. Days like today, I could turn up at 10 to 10. I don't even need to read the papers
58:06
I know what I'm going to talk about when I come on air. There's no scrabbling around for topics or desperately wondering whether you're going to be interested in this or interested in that
58:13
Topics like this, days like this are milk and honey for me
58:18
Good for business, great for business. But here it comes. Bad for the soul
58:25
So bad for the soul because I'm watching my country burn. And Keir Starmer was supposed to be a firefighter
58:32
We saw on Friday that the arsonists are on the march again. The last building they burnt down is still smouldering
58:38
and they insist that they should be put in charge of the rebuilding process
58:43
It's insane what's happened to this country. And for me, at least
58:47
it's Starmer's failure to do anything about that. He courted the Times and the Sun
58:53
I don't know how closely you were following things. A colleague of mine's been in touch
58:58
to point out that he gave all the juicy exclusives to the Times
59:03
to Rupert Murdoch's Times. He courted the sun. He's taking questions at his conferences from GBBs and the Daily Mail
59:11
They want him dead. It is literally insane for him to be still courting these characters
59:18
these cretins, these corrupt operators, as if he is still living in 1996
59:24
when even Rupert Murdoch could be persuaded to give somebody else a chance
59:28
Those days are over. It's right wing or no wing. It's look after wealth or clear off
59:35
and he's still sucking up to them he's still courting them when as my colleague puts it they
59:40
refused to even countenance supporting you when it was clear you were going to win a landslide
59:46
you should have cut them loose then say what you like about opportunistic client journalists in
59:51
this country um on a good day they will work out which way the crowd is running and then get in
59:57
front of it and pretend that they were leading all along with Keir's They didn't even do that
1:00:02
They saw which way the crowd was running in enormous numbers and just sort of went
1:00:06
yeah, well, let's just sit tight. We'll come for him. We'll come for him
1:00:11
Give it six months. Give it a year. We'll come for him. And he gave them opportunities to come for him
1:00:16
That's the thing you can't forgive. That's the thing that I'm afraid blind loyalism can never assuage
1:00:22
He gave them opportunities. He wasn't squeaky clean. Rule one. What are we doing
1:00:27
How will the Daily Mail report it? whether it's in public at the moment or not
1:00:31
How will the Daily Mail report it? But be careful, because the Daily Mail are nothing if not hypocrites
1:00:37
We're going to make Peter Mandelson ambassador. How will the Daily Mail report it? They'll love it, Prime Minister
1:00:42
OK, let's crack on with that then. Oh, but, by the way, when it blows up in your face
1:00:46
they will pretend that they never loved it. They will insist that it was an obvious indication
1:00:50
of how unfit for the role you were and how that you should have seen this catastrophe coming from a million miles away
1:00:55
even though at the time they cheered it to the rafters. So, ask yourself, how will right-wing media deal with this nugget of information when they get hold of it
1:01:03
But remember, they are liars. They are snakes. So stop sucking up to them
1:01:13
Look at the list. Who's going to do that? Who's most likely to actually come at them
1:01:17
To actually say, this country deserves better. You brought us Brexit. You brought us Boris Johnson
1:01:23
You brought us Liz Truss. You brought us austerity. these political disasters don't happen
1:01:28
without media connivance and media complicity and now you're coming for Keir Starmer who's going to stand up
1:01:36
and stop that process because Keir Starmer didn't is Andy Burnham going to
1:01:40
do that I frankly doubt it is Angela Rayner going to do that
1:01:44
is Ed Miliband going to do that he's already had his chance
1:01:49
the Daily Mail maligned his dead father Look it up. It's one of the most hideous examples
1:01:56
even by the grim standards of Paul Dacre, the former editor of that paper
1:02:01
when they came for Ed Miliband's dead dad, a military hero who served this country
1:02:08
and the Daily Mail came for his dead dad. So he's not going to do it
1:02:14
Wes Streeting seems unlikely. Used to be a good thing for a politician
1:02:18
to be desperate to be liked. Now I'm not so sure. And of course, Wes Streeting
1:02:22
whether he's desperate to be liked or not, is loathed by a significant swathe of the Labour Party membership
1:02:28
So you're looking at Angela Rayner, really, as the one most likely to take the battle to the right-wing media
1:02:33
who will immediately respond by saying, oh, she's just bitter because we turned her over regarding her stamp duty
1:02:38
Please don't mention Nigel Farage's secret five... I keep saying five million pounds
1:02:43
I should apologise to Mr Farage for that. It could be 50 million pounds
1:02:47
We've got no idea how much money he's secretly trousered from oligarchs and billionaires
1:02:52
Only he can answer those questions, and he won't even answer questions about the five million we know about
1:02:58
But here is Angela Rayner misunderstanding the stamp duty that she was required to pay
1:03:03
Zak Polanski, absolute wombat, not paying council tax on a boat, and then misleading the media when they came asking questions about it
1:03:12
Grim. And it's happening all the time with Zak Polanski. But his followers will point out that this is as nothing compared to a five million pounds
1:03:20
possibly 50, only one man can clear that up for us, being secretly gifted to somebody
1:03:25
shortly before he announces his intention to try to become Prime Minister
1:03:29
That's what you should be battling. You might not succeed, but you're never going to succeed
1:03:35
when you're playing on a pitch that is steeper than Mount Everest
1:03:40
Unless you can at least level it a little bit, or at least you try to level it
1:03:44
you're never going to win. Keir Starmer was doomed from the start. unless he tried to return the country to a place where the truth matters
1:03:53
to a place where facts prevail, to a place where comments like fake news or alternative facts
1:03:59
are not only treated with contempt but actively legislated against. It is not an affront to your freedom of speech
1:04:07
to prevent you from calling for people to be burnt alive in their beds
1:04:12
It is not an affront to your freedom of speech to prevent you from lying through your teeth
1:04:18
about other members of this population or about observable scientific facts or about what laws are in place in our capital city
1:04:29
These are libels, if you like, against populations. It is not a restriction of your freedom of speech
1:04:37
to punish you for lying, for provoking, for inciting. and Keir Starmer blew it
1:04:46
He absolutely blew it. So how did we end up here? This rather pithy comment from a Labour MP last night
1:04:59
Andy's strategy has been a disaster. Angela has bottled it. Ed is on a hiding to nothing
1:05:04
Wes is AWOL. And God knows what Catherine West is doing. I am not quite sure how we ended up here
1:05:11
I am. I wasn't 10 minutes ago. This happens occasionally on this programme
1:05:17
It's been a while, hasn't it? But I'm not. I'm not puzzled
1:05:23
I know exactly how we ended up here. We are still operating in an ecosystem
1:05:27
that has entirely corrupted truth. We are still lionising people who brought this country to its knees
1:05:34
We are still promoting, whether it's to the editorship of The Spectator or The House of Lords
1:05:38
people who are proven failures and proven liars. Why? Because they are complicit in the protection of wealth
1:05:45
And the way that you persuade people who haven't got any wealth that they should be on that team as well
1:05:49
is by fermenting the intoxication of racism, of misogyny, of homophobia. Give them someone to hate
1:05:58
Give them someone. And what did Keir Starmer do? He joined in
1:06:03
What did Shibana Bamun do? She joined in. Didn't make a stand against the two-minute hate
1:06:12
that Orwell so presciently predicted. They didn't make a stand against it, they joined in
1:06:18
Because the ecosystem in which a country can cripple itself in the way that this country has done in the last ten years persists
1:06:26
It's still in place. And what is the point of being Prime Minister
1:06:32
if you're not going to try to return your country to reality
1:06:38
I don't care who's in the White House, I don't care who's in the Kremlin, I don't care who owns Twitter. I don't care who owns the Daily Mail
1:06:44
The only chance a population has of sustaining accountability, democracy and decency is if facts matter
1:06:54
If the truth prevails. If you and I are on opposing teams, biting chunks out of each other the minute the whistle blows
1:07:02
but we are in full agreement about what the rules of engagement are
1:07:08
You don't lie. You don't take £5 million from foreign-based billionaires and try to keep it secret
1:07:14
and then refuse with the connivance of client journalists to answer questions about it
1:07:19
You don't cosy up to Vladimir Putin. You don treat Donald Trump like a sane operator when his obvious dedication to the maligning of our country is visible from space You take this on or you wither and you die
1:07:35
And Keir Starmer's done none of that. Instead, we've got this. You've had some difficult questions about your own family
1:07:42
Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll talk about that any other time you like. And he's done nothing
1:07:48
Yesterday, oh, a chancer and a grifter. Come on, man. two years you've had to call this character out
1:07:55
two years you've had to instead you've nicked some of his policies
1:08:00
you've tried to nibble his lunch and here you are saying oh give me another go
1:08:06
give me another go give me another go James O'Brien on LBC
1:08:12
Is it a 20 minute monologue at the start of every hour now
1:08:16
asks Glenn to which my only answer is if you're lucky Glenn if you're lucky
1:08:21
Josephine's in Westminster. Josephine, what's going on? Hi, James. So I think there was a real failure
1:08:26
to make an immediate difference to people's lives that everyone could point to
1:08:30
So I heard Sadiq Khan mention on the newsagents that he made an immediate difference
1:08:34
that he instituted the night tube when he got into power so he could at least point to that
1:08:39
And back in 90... So back in 97, I was at a chronically underfunded
1:08:44
inner city state school so small that they had to ban running in the playground
1:08:49
Why? In case you fell over and there was no one there to help you? No, there were just too many kids and the playground was too small
1:08:54
And it was just, we lived in Santa Monica for a year and then came back to this
1:08:59
And there were no, in Santa Monica, there were computers. I had an 18-hole golf course at my school, Josephine
1:09:05
It was insane. And the Labour government came into power. And our lives changed virtually overnight
1:09:10
We suddenly had textbooks, we had pens, we had a computer. And for me, it made a real difference
1:09:15
I ended up getting a scholarship to go to a private girls' school, and the rest is history
1:09:20
And so since then, I've been Labour through and through, because I saw in that moment
1:09:24
when you feel so viscerally, the difference that politics can make to your life, it stays with you forever
1:09:30
So, fast forward, kind of, almost 20 years, to last year, when I was going into teacher training
1:09:38
thinking that I could kind of make a difference and give back. the Labour government had just come into power
1:09:44
and I really hoped that there would be a similar feeling in the schools that there was a Labour government
1:09:50
and I got into the school and really all you could feel was the consequences
1:09:55
of 14 years of austerity on every level these are the kids who were born into a world with no sure start
1:10:02
these are the kids who were left just without education during Covid and kind of suffering
1:10:09
and the schools themselves, the infrastructure, just suffering under 14 years of having to pick up the pieces
1:10:15
of things that really should have been dealt with in the community. And it was just one of the most..
1:10:19
It's been one of the most depressing experiences, really, of my life
1:10:23
And I felt really, as someone who voted Labour, hoping that we would see a repeat of 1997
1:10:28
They'd come in and do something about something. Exactly. And instead they did the opposite
1:10:34
I mean, I know they needed to raise money and they had fiscal holes to fill, but they did the opposite
1:10:38
and they made life worse immediately for everybody on the winter fuel allows
1:10:44
And some of those people... And they had time to plan. That's the ridiculous thing, is that they literally had time to plan for their first two months in office
1:10:50
They could have thought, OK, we're going to do this, this and this to make people's lives better off. Similarly now with the local elections
1:10:56
they knew that the results were going to be disastrous. They knew that this was coming. And yet he didn't plan for any of it
1:11:01
So how is this? It's not leadership. It's not... When did you arrive at this, Ken
1:11:07
When did you get to this point? Pretty much immediately, actually. When I was in the school and saw
1:11:14
and literally I was placed into a state school around the corner from the school that I had been at
1:11:19
And once again, the playground was too small for all the children to be in at once
1:11:24
And the school was in a worse state than the one that I was in back in 97
1:11:30
And it was just like, what has happened to this country? How is this possible that we've had a year of Labour government
1:11:36
and nothing has changed. It was, yeah, and I'm angry on quite a deep level
1:11:43
Clearly you are, and it's an incredible cocktail of personal and political that you've just shared
1:11:49
I'm really grateful to you, Josephine, and yes, I think you're right, actually
1:11:53
making something better for someone, and I know the living wage, and I know
1:11:58
do free school meals extend beyond London? But if they don't, they could have taken a leaf out of Sadiq Khan's book on that one
1:12:05
And there's another example of why they should have taken on the pollution of public discourse
1:12:10
Look at the way Sadiq Khan has talked about and written about all over the world
1:12:14
despite presiding over a city that is routinely the wealthiest and happiest part of this country
1:12:22
It's insane that this narrative has been allowed to take hold, and that it is on that narrative that the really, really bad people are achieving power
1:12:30
not just elsewhere in the world, but quite possibly in this country as well
1:12:34
Thank you, Josephine. Do I intersperse every caller with a limerick at the moment
1:12:39
Amelia, have I got any way of knowing which ones you have decided are brilliant and which ones you've decided are awful
1:12:43
Oh, yes. Okay. Because, I mean, to be honest, it's not obvious immediately, is it
1:12:47
These are the good ones. Starting with Mike, who's in Hackney. There once was a man named Keir Starmer
1:12:52
There you go. Scans. Good start. I mean, they should all start like that, really
1:12:57
Centrist. Dads thought him a sheer charmer. He lied and he lied. His party membership died in the country
1:13:03
he could no longer steer karma. That's brilliant. That's a brilliant one
1:13:08
Oh, Lord. Okay, here's a rubbish one. Starmer Watoplanka threw away a massive..
1:13:15
Yeah, all right, fair enough. This probably challenges the parameters of a limerick
1:13:19
There once was a producer named Keith who had quite extraordinary teeth
1:13:24
He munched on a penguin a listener had sent in and exclaimed that was tasty good grief
1:13:29
Amelia, that's really good. that's a really good limerick it scans, it's topical
1:13:35
it speaks to something that we talked about last week ok, back to the ones that you think
1:13:39
back to the ones yeah, it might be bullying Keith, but you know, man up
1:13:43
back to the ones that Amelia thinks are brilliant this is from Alan
1:13:47
there once was a leader named Keir, whose exit was whispered we hear but he stands in his place with a look on his face that says
1:13:53
I'm not leaving this year boom, that's a good one, there we go
1:13:56
yeah alright, I might read out some more of these it's 11.27 Jill's in Lewisham
1:14:00
Jill, what would you like to say? Hello, James. Hello, Jill. On the question of how did we end up here
1:14:06
I think, for me, part of it is that we continue to be told
1:14:10
and many of us seem to believe, that showing empathy is a sign of weakness. So I voted for Starmer hoping for a return of some sort of empathy
1:14:18
which was completely missing from the Conservatives. I even wildly optimistically hoped we might see some sort of movement
1:14:26
towards a legal route to asylum. in Australia, where I'm from, they allocate
1:14:30
20,000 places a year. Instead, he's trotted out the same lines on immigration, the same titled
1:14:35
lines on that. Cut disability benefits, continue to portray benefits, claimants as work shy
1:14:44
I haven't seen the change in any of that. It's put fuel in Farage's bigoted
1:14:48
tank, because that's the next big front in this country, as immigration
1:14:52
comes down to the economic detriment of the entire nation particularly the older people Farage will start going after the people who are sick and poorly and between jobs under the pretense that they all faking it or making it up
1:15:06
And I don't know, because 2020 hindsight is a wonderful thing, Jill. It's wonderful that you thought that at the time
1:15:12
At the time, I probably would have argued with you and said, look, that ship has sailed. How are you ever going to, A, point out that the reason why small boats exist
1:15:20
is because the Tories closed down safe and legal routes, and, B, that if you wanted to get rid of them
1:15:25
you could get rid of them tomorrow by reopening safe and legal routes so that anyone who's crossing via irregular purposes
1:15:31
is, by definition, breaking the law. They are avoiding the safe and legal routes
1:15:36
but instead they shut down the safe and legal routes and called anybody who got into a boat an illegal
1:15:41
turning an adjective into a noun. And you're right, Labour joined in. They didn't challenge it at all
1:15:46
Yeah, and I... Well, he didn't necessarily outline those plans prior to election
1:15:50
which might have been... I thought that might have been too dangerous and I hoped he was biding his time, but I was wrong
1:15:55
Yeah, you were. You were wrong. Do you have any faith in any of the others? Hope
1:16:00
And charity? Sorry, carry on. I think West Streeting, maybe. I think he's young
1:16:07
He'll be our first gay Prime Minister. I think that would be a good thing. Yes
1:16:11
I nearly said first out gay Prime Minister then, but I'm very glad I didn't. So, thank you, Jill
1:16:16
It is half past 11. Two questions on the board. How has it all gone so wrong
1:16:20
Why has it all gone so wrong? And also, how has the party ended up in such a mess
1:16:25
Because it's not all on Starmer. I don't think it is. Anyway, maybe you disagree
1:16:30
0345 6060 973 is the number you need. Of course, we shouldn't talk exclusively about Labour Party problems
1:16:36
Would you like me to indulge in a practice beloved of lazy radio programmes
1:16:42
where you insert a little bit of vaguely relevant music in order to tee up a story that's coming later
1:16:49
So, for example, if you're doing something about parking tickets, you might play Cars by Gary Newman
1:16:54
And you were doing it 40 years ago, and you still do it now. Shall I do... Yeah. Okay
1:16:58
Keith. In your own time. How do I do it? Do I talk over this
1:17:08
Or do I... What? What? Okay. Okay. And coming... I'll cue you again. Are you ready
1:17:16
Okay. on 3, 2, 1. Coming up next, strange goings-on in Doncaster
1:17:24
Our man in Yorkshire, Alex Taylor-Brown, will join us at 11.45. And now it's Dominic Ellis with the headlines
1:17:32
James O'Brien on LBC. It's 11.34. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:17:41
OK, let's take it up to 12 and then maybe have a look at the other runners and riders
1:17:46
we've got to do of course a quick catch up on what's going on in reform land as well because
1:17:50
well frankly somebody has to do you want a quick do you want a quick limerick before we carry on
1:17:54
but there are a couple of phone leaves free in answers to the question of why has it all gone so wrong for keir starmer and indeed from the point of view of the whole party how have they
1:18:02
ended up in such an almighty mess um oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three this is from
1:18:09
I quite like this. This is from Laura in Renfrew. This is on Amelia's excellent list
1:18:16
not her terrible list. Although, frankly, from where I'm sitting, they're largely interchangeable
1:18:21
There once was a PM from Surrey whose star was fading in a hurry
1:18:28
They want him replaced but can't choose a face, so he went for a beer and a curry. That's cropped up a bit, actually
1:18:33
I quite like Mikey's as well. There once was a PM named Kia. Just to clarify, it's National Limerick Day
1:18:39
alright, I haven't gone full partridge I'm not choosing to mark this
1:18:43
moment by inviting you to send in limericks for no reason, it is
1:18:47
National Limerick Day, at least that's what Keith told me earlier and I probably
1:18:51
should have checked, now I come to think about it there once was a PM named Keir, he once
1:18:57
ate a curry with beer he thought he knew best when he chased off the left
1:19:01
and now it's all ended in tears, but if you change that to beers Mikey, there once
1:19:05
was a PM named Keir, he once ate a curry with beers. Oh, but Kia, beer
1:19:09
Tia. Yeah, no, it's good, though. It's not bad. Tim's in Belfast. Tim
1:19:15
what would you like to say? Good morning, James. Hello, Tim. I'm very much
1:19:19
in the area of media. I've worked in advertising for 40-plus years
1:19:23
and so I have a reasonable idea how it works. Yes. One of the
1:19:27
key elements is simply repetition. I mean, we all give ourselves awards for creativity, but
1:19:33
the bottom line is if you repeat the same message over and over again, people don't even realise
1:19:37
they're adopting it. This is what Kemi Bainaut's doing at the moment
1:19:41
She's just going everywhere saying, I'm the winner! I'm the greatest! I'm a winner
1:19:45
And I think it's going to work. I think people are going to start going, hey, that Kemi Bainaut's doing well
1:19:49
In fact, Keith, get the unhinged headline ready for when Tim's finished. Tim, carry on
1:19:53
Okay, because, I mean, in Northern Ireland during the peace process, John Hume had a couple of mantras that he just repeated
1:19:59
over and over again. But the question I want to ask, based on your book, which I've read
1:20:03
and my own ramblings about BBC Northern Ireland. Why don't they do anything about it
1:20:08
Why does the government not? It's theoretically got the power, but seems to put that in second place to the media
1:20:15
Why are we allowed in the UK to have media ownership of people who don't even live in the country
1:20:21
Why is the BBC still reading out newspaper headlines every single morning when the newspaper circulations
1:20:26
in total are less than a million? so there's less than 60% of the population
1:20:33
They've got quite a big online following. They have, but does that justify them reading out the headlines
1:20:40
Really, they should be playing out one of my monologues every morning on the BBC if they want to find out what the popular media outlets have got to say
1:20:47
about the story of the moment. Yes, but what happens then is that they're reading out the headlines
1:20:51
of 80% plus right-wing headlines. So every single time the BBC is amplifying the messages of the offshore billionaires who own these newspapers
1:21:02
And Robbie Gibb is in the boardroom shouting, we need more right-wing content
1:21:07
Yes, and so five or six people's opinions are absolutely sacrosanct in the United Kingdom
1:21:13
and the other 65 million of us get nothing. We get no say whatsoever
1:21:18
So why isn't Lisa Nandy, one, putting some backbone into Ofcom, which is absolutely pathetic, and two, starting to put in regulations about media ownership
1:21:30
Because the other side of this coin is, you know, we talk about Europe and the collection
1:21:35
America owns so much of the media now, and obviously it's run by the basket case Trump
1:21:41
But we don't do anything about it. We're letting this happen. The government is letting this happen
1:21:47
It has a huge majority. And then the freedom of the press, you've touched on it this morning
1:21:52
the freedom of the press should be held to account if they're caught lying
1:21:56
And there should be a whole organisation making sure that if they're not telling the truth
1:22:01
if they're not, I mean, the BBC, for example, if it's not being balanced
1:22:05
it should be monitored, it should be held to account, it should be literally counting the minutes, because you could do this
1:22:11
that each person and each party is given in relevance to the size of their vote
1:22:19
And, I mean, it's insane because it is... I mean obviously I got passionate about this but you go back to the real genius in Nazi Germany was Goebbels who was using sound film two years after it was invented who was selling cheap
1:22:35
radios in Germany, manufactured by the Nazi party and selling them for buttons so their message
1:22:41
could get out there. It's been, it's always been the case that the
1:22:45
media are in control. And it was radios in Rwanda that catalyzed
1:22:51
the genocide there. Completely. And what you have now is a system whereby
1:22:57
by being liberal or even centre, you were inclined to think that you want to be liked by everybody
1:23:03
and everybody has a decent soul in them. I can guarantee if the media was the other way round
1:23:09
and the right wing government was elected, they'd be slamming it shut within weeks
1:23:13
Well, they're going to slam, they're going to try to, we've seen in America, they've tried to slam shut the little bits that they don't control
1:23:18
And you may well see something similar here, in which case I could be picking you up in an Uber
1:23:23
in Belfast sometime soon, Tim. But the short answer to your question
1:23:28
and I'm sure you know this, but it's not entirely rhetorical. Why won't they rock the boat
1:23:33
particularly when the boat is crewed largely by people who are their sworn enemies
1:23:37
is the commercial impact of nobody else buying the boat. So they've just had to give the telegraph
1:23:42
to a German Donald Trump fan. The telegraph has now gone to a German Donald Trump fan
1:23:47
who came in with a slightly higher bid than a British Donald Trump fan called Viscount Rothermere
1:23:51
whose wife is giving money to Nigel Farage. So it removes them from the process
1:23:57
and who ends up owning the newspaper? Answer, nobody. Jobs go. Businesses fail, and Keir Starmer takes the blame for that as well
1:24:04
Ooh, James, who cares? I mean, who cares? Oh, cry me a river, the Daily Telegraph has gone out of business
1:24:13
It's my late father's old paper, so I care a bit, but not in the way that I would have done 30 years ago
1:24:18
I mean, the vast majority of young people don't go anywhere near a newspaper
1:24:23
And that's the threat you have to have to them. But this is my point
1:24:27
is that the whole thing is that the government are, there are reasons to not do it
1:24:31
so you let them carry on with it. This is this government's biggest weakness. There are always reasons to not do things
1:24:36
There are reasons, and they don't ever take a huge step. So that's it then. Why haven't they done stuff, is the question
1:24:42
Why haven't they rocked the boat? What's your answer to the question? Because they're fearful of it
1:24:48
Because they're actually, he got into Prime Minister, as Prime Minister is
1:24:53
he has been completely dictated to by the media and he's frightened of the headlines
1:24:57
And he doesn't realise, I mean, he should realise now with the number of people voting Green
1:25:02
that there are lots of Liberal people out there who were praying that a Labour government
1:25:06
would act like a Labour government. And he, from the minute he went in
1:25:10
he started trying to win over the right who will never vote for him in a month of Sundays. So why won't he do it
1:25:16
Because he's frightened. And this is why he's such a bad Prime Minister
1:25:20
So never mind stop the boats, how about rocking the boat? 100%. And you know, you're saying, okay, why don't you regulate it and say, actually, you know what, when there's a bid between a British company and a German company, the German company's not allowed to bid
1:25:34
We're not in Europe anymore, that's maybe the only advantage of Brexit, is that you should not be allowed..
1:25:40
You should have told him to sling his hook. You can legislate, that's what a government's supposed to do
1:25:44
They're supposed to legislate for the running of the country. The country is currently being completely undermined
1:25:51
by foreign media companies, and they're doing nothing. And foreign-based billionaires giving secret donations to politicians
1:25:58
I don't think we should overlook them. Yeah, I mean, I'll put that on the list, actually
1:26:03
for after we've done our... I don't know whether it's a Reform Watch or UFO Watch
1:26:08
that's coming up next. I think it could possibly be both. Tim, thank you. Fear, fearfulness
1:26:13
Sometimes the obvious answer is the correct one. Why haven't they rocked the boat? Fear. Can I tell you that Mamdani in New York is introducing attacks on second homes
1:26:21
I'm going to read you three quotes from the coverage of this story in the Financial Times
1:26:27
that are absolutely extraordinary. I think that this is a moment for me
1:26:33
and they will come for Mamdani in ways that Ed Miliband would find positively mild
1:26:40
or Keir Starmer will find positively mild, because Mamdani is rocking the boat
1:26:46
These are three actual quotes from a piece responding to the mayor of New York's plan
1:26:52
to put a special tax on second homes. Second homes, right? Can I afford the tax
1:26:59
Here's one quote. Can I afford... Do you want me to do an accent? Shall I do it? Shall I do an accent? Can I afford the tax
1:27:04
No, I won't do an accent. Can I afford the tax? Yes. Is it going to deter me
1:27:08
No. But I think it's shameful. I provide a lot of money to people who are blue-collar workers who work for me
1:27:16
Servers in restaurants. Why shouldn't you pay a tax on your second home
1:27:22
Because I spend a lot of money on luxuries. Quote number two
1:27:27
What Mamdani just did to me, and more broadly is doing to the city of New York
1:27:32
is triggering the trauma I went through in Chicago. says a man who is worth, currently, $50 billion
1:27:44
He has been, quote, triggered, end quotes, by attacks on his second homes
1:27:50
Or third or fourth or fifth homes. Triggered, no less. A word that people from that side of the political fence
1:27:57
suggested we shouldn't be allowed to use when we were talking about things like sex abuse and trauma
1:28:02
But when you're sticking attacks on people's multiple homes, Triggered is the word that they reach for
1:28:07
And finally, my personal favourite, a lot of these people who have pied-à-terres
1:28:13
this is describing their apartments on Fifth Avenue and elsewhere, worth potentially millions of dollars
1:28:19
a lot of these people who have pied-à-terres are real people. A lot of people who have second homes are real people
1:28:25
and therefore that's just something as relatively innocuous as sticking a tax on second homes
1:28:31
a constituency of the country that is by definition going to be among the wealthiest
1:28:36
and therefore the most able easily to pay. And also relatively tiny in the great scheme of things
1:28:43
But that's rocking the boat. That's rocking the boat. 11.45 is the time
1:28:49
Let's do that thing again, Keith. Oh, coming up next. What's going on in Doncaster
1:28:59
Alex Taylor-Brown will tell us. James O'Brien on LBC It is 11.49
1:29:07
and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC Andy and Norwich has been in touch to point out
1:29:13
that Keith Chegwin rhymes with penguin which is not entirely true actually Andy
1:29:19
but nonetheless we're grateful for your contribution it feels appropriate that that should have
1:29:23
come from Norwich, doesn't it? The land that gave us Alan Partridge
1:29:27
in the first place It is 11.49. Let's head up to Yorkshire next
1:29:32
where our Yorkshire correspondent, Alex Taylor-Brown, is waiting. I've been told that we're not entirely clear
1:29:37
We haven't got a name for the feature at the moment, Alex. It used to be called Riley's Reform Roundup
1:29:41
but Henry is obviously often called upon to do other things, so I'm taking his name off the tin
1:29:47
I suggest that you and some of your colleagues might start competing for ownership of this feature moving forward
1:29:52
but in the meantime, we're going to call it the Farage 5 million
1:29:56
We are looking for five million stories involving newly elected... reform or of course already elected reform politicians to collate together before the
1:30:05
next general election. But I wasn't expecting aliens to make an appearance quite so early
1:30:10
No, very interesting James. I know you're excited about hearing about this
1:30:18
We'll get to that in a sec. But to sort of lay the land out for you, this was a council meeting
1:30:23
an extraordinary meeting called in yesterday around the borrowing of £57 million worth of
1:30:29
money towards the reopening of Doncaster Sheffield Airport. So that closed in 2022. The previous
1:30:34
owners' appeal group said it was no longer financially viable. There's been a massive
1:30:38
campaign to get it back open locally. Local Labour politicians backing it. We've had Prime
1:30:42
Minister Sir Keir Starmer in Doncaster to back it as well. So the Reform Group, who are the
1:30:48
largest party on the council, but the Labour mayor has the executive power, they say there
1:30:53
was new information that came to light around this 125-year lease signed by the council
1:30:58
including an annual £5 million base rate loan to the owners of the Land Peel Group
1:31:03
They wanted an extraordinary meeting on it to discuss what they called rescinding the money
1:31:09
There was about a two-hour council meeting yesterday and after all that the reform group decided to continue with the funding as planned
1:31:17
which they had already approved by the way in November originally with safeguards in place
1:31:23
and that includes written commitment that any new lease agreed is made available to councillors
1:31:28
before it's approved so what happened to all the important new information that they discovered then
1:31:34
so so it was they say that there was this new information that came to light in january
1:31:41
what the labour mayor ros jones told me was this information was was already there was
1:31:47
discussed in council meetings but that the reform councillors hadn't always turned up to those
1:31:52
meetings or read the detail around it. So I managed to chat to the deputy leader of the
1:31:59
reform Doncaster Group, this is Jason Charity, and I asked him essentially whether, have you turned on this
1:32:05
I don't think so. I think we've been all the way through looking at how we make DSA work
1:32:10
but we've got to make sure also that there's a sensible set of safeguards
1:32:14
Could you understand the sort of concern around, people see the word rescind and the future of the airport
1:32:20
Surely you want the airport open? We do. 100% we want the airport open
1:32:26
Richard Tice, Reform's deputy leader, has been a massive supporter all the way through this process
1:32:32
We've been in daily contact with him. But we've always said this is not about signing a blank cheque
1:32:37
It's got to be the right deal. The original rescind motion, I think
1:32:42
was necessary to get parties to the table. Has there maybe been instructions from the National Reform Party
1:32:47
to maybe sort of question this? No, this has squarely come from Reform Doncaster, and we reached out to HQ and said we need support on this
1:32:57
But we've driven this from Doncaster, and we've done this for the right reasons
1:33:01
We want DSA to be a success, but we're not prepared to write a black check
1:33:07
We heard there, James, using the word rescind just to get Mayor Ros Jones and the Labour executive to talk
1:33:13
James, that's caused all sorts of uncertainty around this. I've been told some people have pulled their job applications from the airport because this was, you know, all up in the air, if you pardon the pun
1:33:23
Businesses around the airport have had to put their planning on hold
1:33:29
A guy who runs a depot manager said, I want to expand the number of HGVs
1:33:33
I can't at the moment because I don't even know what's happening. Now, we spoke to the deputy leader there
1:33:39
The leader is Craig Ward. You might remember him, James. We've spoken about him on the show before
1:33:43
There was an interview that went viral with one of the brilliant local reporters, Harry Harrison, a few months ago
1:33:49
It is what it is. Yeah, it is what it is. This is how that went down
1:33:55
A couple of times in that meeting and in the amendment, it's claimed by reform that residents have faced a maximum council tax increase for the last three years
1:34:03
That's a lie, isn't it? It's not true. Well, I wouldn't say it's a lie, Harry. It's not true. And I think you guys know it's not true
1:34:10
it's it's not well it is what it is you know it is what it is it's been a rise so he's in charge now
1:34:22
so he yeah so he's the leader and he was he he was at the meeting yesterday for actually the first
1:34:28
time since that interview james this was the first one in it so that was about two months ago
1:34:33
um we obviously want to speak to him he's the leader of the reform group in doncaster we were
1:34:37
told we can't he had other appointments as all the reporters left the council building we actually
1:34:42
saw what that other appointment was he was sat in the pub beer garden opposite the council uh with
1:34:48
a few of the other reform councils you'd think they'd have found a pub a bit further away from
1:34:53
where all the journalists were gathered it is what it is james it is what it is alex it is
1:34:59
you're flying today and this wasn't even the most surprising thing though from from the whole meeting
1:35:06
This is what Councillor Kieran Lay decided to raise during this meeting
1:35:10
Remember, this is about critical infrastructure, local area. This is what Reform Councillor Kieran Lay decided to talk about
1:35:17
So what I've got to say is not been mentioned by any member in this chamber
1:35:22
and it's been a topic that seems no one wants to cover. Given the rarefied unidentified anomaly phenomena, UAP, activity
1:35:31
recorded directly over at the immediate vicinity of Doncaster Sheffield Airport, and in line with NASA's recommendations
1:35:37
for evidence-based UAP oversight focused on aviation safety, I move to make the suggestion
1:35:42
that full council establishes a temporary Doncaster UAP overview and safety committee or panel
1:35:50
So he's talking about UFOs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's talking about UFOs
1:35:57
and why no one wants to mention UFOs and what's Doncaster Council doing about it
1:36:02
in a meeting about the future of the airport that could bring billions to the local economy
1:36:06
and he sort of throws NASA into the equation. If you watch the video, there's actually a lot of surprise looks
1:36:12
by some of the fellow reform councillors there. I could tell you there was bewilderment from the other journalists
1:36:18
that were reporting on this. It's politics, James, but not as we know it
1:36:22
Well played. Is he new, this lad? Yeah, so Doncaster Council, they had their elections last year
1:36:29
Right, so he's new-ish. New-ish, yeah, yeah, yeah. And no word yet on aliens
1:36:37
I mean, no official council line on UFO policy. There's no official UFO policy council line from Doncaster as of yet
1:36:46
but, you know, I'm sure they'll be working hard on it. Sensational stuff
1:36:51
And it is actually worth watching that clip because of the faces of some of his own colleagues responding to his..
1:36:57
What was the subtext there, briefly, Alex? Is he under the impression that Doncaster might be a particular focus
1:37:02
focus of alien activity or or is it more a sort of broader expression of solidarity with alien
1:37:09
observe observance everywhere well i think there had been talk of some uh uap as as he put it
1:37:17
citing uh around his constituency just just just this week um and and and referenced uh some supersonic UAP from 2020 over the Bortree area of Doncaster which it hadn been followed up funnily enough by the council
1:37:35
So we wanted to know more about why more wasn't being done about it. Oh, is the Crown still in Bortree
1:37:42
Oh, I don't know. It used to be a wonderful spot, the Crown. A lot of the journalists covering the Miner Strike used to stay at the Crown in Bortree
1:37:48
My dad took me with him a couple of times. I have very fond memories of their snooker table. But no UFOs, as far as I can remember
1:37:54
but, you know, I probably was looking up, not looking up enough. I was too busy looking down
1:37:59
Thank you very much, Alex. Alex Taylor-Brown, LBC's Yorkshire correspondent, with news of..
1:38:05
I don't know, really. What was that? I mean, some confusion, some sharp practice
1:38:11
and possibly some aliens. All thanks to reform's increasing profile in local politics
1:38:17
I don't know what we're going to call it. We do know what we call it. we're calling it the path to the Farage 5 million, yeah
1:38:24
The Farage 5 million. We need 5 million stories. We're now up to six
1:38:28
But it's only dear two. It's dear two of the Farage 5 million
1:38:32
Keith, how many do we have to do a day if we're going to get up to 5 million before the next general election
1:38:38
Yeah, you're right, loads. Coming up in the next hour, I think we stay with the story of the moment
1:38:42
My sense is that the momentum has swung away from the vultures circling Keir Starmer
1:38:51
but quite possibly only for now. I think we're still very much in the space of wondering
1:38:56
what on earth has gone so horribly wrong so quickly. A question that people will ask, I think, with good cause
1:39:04
whether they were optimistic and hopeful about this administration or whether they were still lying about the last three or four
1:39:10
and the misery and suffering that they inflicted upon the nation. Most people expected more
1:39:17
I think and want to know why they haven't got it but given that some of the callers are prompting better questions
1:39:23
than the one I spend 20 minutes asking at the beginning of every hour let's add another one to the list
1:39:27
Why do you think they didn't rock the boat more? Or maybe you think they did, it just hasn't been properly reported
1:39:33
Three minutes after 12 it's not exactly what you would call a banner
1:39:39
under which you would march to war, is it? The process for challenging the leader has not been triggered
1:39:46
I don't know why, I just adopted a voice slightly reminiscent of John Major there
1:39:52
That's who I'm probably most reminded of by Keir Starmer. And I would remind you that John Major came in for extraordinary amounts of abuse
1:40:00
and repeated predictions of his imminent downfall, and then he won a general election against Neil Kinnock, against expectations
1:40:08
Although, last time I spoke to Neil Kinnock about it, on full disclosure, he explained that he wasn't actually that surprised by the result
1:40:14
And if you were paying proper attention at the time, rather than being led by the nose by some of the media coverage
1:40:21
you too would not have been that shocked by his defeat. I don't know what the history books have judged on that question
1:40:28
but I mention it because 20-20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. You see it a lot at the moment with Gordon Brown
1:40:34
You know, the idea that he was hounded out of office by a sort of, really, just a sort of attack
1:40:43
I remember when one television presenter, I think it was Jeremy Clarkson, called him a one-eyed Scottish idiot
1:40:49
And you sort of thought, this isn't normal. This is not normal
1:40:52
It was a clever little move of Clarkson's really, in a way, setting the tone for the direction in which British politics would go in the next 16 years
1:41:00
By being very, very ad hominem and vile. And now you look back on that and it doesn't really stand out at all in the lexicon of political insults
1:41:09
But at the time, I remember thinking it was absolutely disgusting behaviour. That was long before he was calling for the Duchess of Sussex
1:41:16
to be paraded naked through the streets of this country and pelted with manure or something
1:41:21
I've forgotten the finer details of that. Remarkable intervention. And he remains one of my favourite journalists
1:41:27
So, you know, I'm very weird. And I suspect that Starmer won't enjoy that
1:41:35
if this is the end of the pier for Keir. I suspect that he won't enjoy that retrospective reassessment
1:41:41
I don't know. I could be wrong. But I don't think people will look back and say
1:41:46
God, if only we'd realised what we had at the time. I'll tell you what, it was time for John Major to go
1:41:50
but he was a lot better than we gave him credit for. Some of the speeches he gave correctly identifying
1:41:55
exactly what would happen if this country left the European Union will stand the test of time
1:42:00
And so with Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling's mission to save the world's economy
1:42:06
one of them flying uninvited to meet with single market finance ministers
1:42:11
because, of course, although we were in the EU at the time, We weren't in the single currency, so we didn't actually get a seat at that table necessarily
1:42:17
But Gordon Brown turned up and essentially led the agenda, essentially put the policies in place that would bring the country, bring the world back from the precipice
1:42:26
Alison Darling, meanwhile, flew to the United States of America to make exactly the same case for exactly the same policies, and they prevailed
1:42:35
It's extraordinary to me. There are two things, I think, from the last 50 years of current affairs
1:42:41
that in a better world, they would be understood and known by everybody
1:42:50
That's the first. That's the domestic version. I should jot this down, actually
1:42:54
because I am in the process of agreeing to writing another book, and this is kind of on the theme that the book is going to be about
1:43:00
That's the first. That Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling really did lead the world
1:43:07
world when it came to recovering from the 2008 global financial crisis. I mean, it is horrible
1:43:14
to contemplate what might have happened if they had not prevailed. That's something that the entire
1:43:18
country should have taken pride in. That's something that every single British person could have worn
1:43:23
as a badge of honour. Our boys led the way. But of course, by the time it had been through the
1:43:29
Murdoch mangle and the Daily Mail misinformation machine, the global financial crisis of 2008 was
1:43:36
all Gordon Brown's fault. And by the time David Cameron became Prime Minister in 2010
1:43:41
the response to the global financial crisis of 2008 was to start shutting libraries in
1:43:46
Wolverhampton and sure start centres in Kensal Green. That's how the world turns
1:43:51
So if it had been properly understood that Brown and Darling led the world on that, then
1:43:58
history would look very different. That's point one. Point two is Don
1:44:03
Perlman, this bloke I'm going to return to again and again and again, because I was deeply ashamed
1:44:08
by how little I knew about him and the work he did when it came to scuppering the Kyoto Climate
1:44:14
Agreement. And this bloke, who was like the godfather of Tufton Street, with no scientific
1:44:19
qualifications whatsoever, set up an organisation that sounded fancy-schmancy scientific and started
1:44:27
while being on the payroll of all the big oil producers in the country, scuppering all of the
1:44:31
legislation designed to make the world a healthier, safer place to live. That was it, just for money
1:44:36
and kicks, but dressed up as science, dressed up as a viable challenge to climate change science
1:44:44
And what he did has ramifications that will go on for generations and generations and generations
1:44:50
So that the international dimension Why are we where we are As a country well the level of misinformation and misleading required to deprive Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling of the credit for reversing the 2008 global financial crisis should have seen them installed in Downing Street for at least another decade
1:45:10
But it didn't. David Cameron got in instead with Neil, with, um, what's his chops? Clegg in his pocket
1:45:16
And internationally, why are we where we are? Don Perlman. Have a look at it
1:45:20
It's an absolutely extraordinary story that should be taught in all schools
1:45:26
But that is perhaps a little big for today. Today we're looking at the micro question of why are we where we are
1:45:32
81 Labour MPs now calling on Keir Starmer to stand down. Keir Starmer correctly pointing out that the process by which a leadership challenge would be triggered has not been triggered
1:45:45
I think best understood as it being impossible to have a leadership challenge without a leadership challenger
1:45:50
which adds to the idea that they are all currently bottling it
1:45:54
None of them want to wield the dagger, partly because, as someone very clever once said
1:45:59
he who wields the dagger never wears the crown. It's not entirely true
1:46:03
but it is true enough to have become a figure of speech
1:46:09
And that, I think, leads us to the question I have not asked on this programme for the longest time
1:46:15
but I'm going to ask you now. They're actually going to ask you in quite a rude way
1:46:19
if you don't mind. Is there anybody? No, I can't do it
1:46:23
But can I be that rude? I just... I mean, do any of us have anything interesting to say
1:46:29
about who should be... We do. We must do, mustn't we? I've got a slightly embarrassing admission to make
1:46:35
I said it before Keir Starmer became Prime Minister. And I'll say it again now
1:46:40
And in some ways, it becomes a less embarrassing contribution to the conversation
1:46:43
as a consequence of some of the calls that we've taken this hour and in the first hour
1:46:47
This idea of the package, the presentation being inadequate, what Keir Starmer represents physically
1:46:55
People talk a lot about his intonation. I used to roll my eyes, but there comes a point when I've heard that word intonation so often
1:47:01
that I think, well, you might roll your eyes, pal, but it obviously matters
1:47:06
People want to hear, I mean, Farage does this really weird thing where he sort of jerks around the place like this when he's talking
1:47:12
And I don't know, some of the sort of little weird mini-me's that surround him have started copying him as well
1:47:17
It's obviously more effective in some ways than Keir Starmer's manner or delivery
1:47:22
Boris Johnson, of course, famously pretends that he is forgetful and chaotic
1:47:26
and sort of makes like an eccentric Oxford don. Something about what Keir Starmer does butters very, very few parsnips
1:47:34
So I have said for a long time that I think Labour need a leader with a northern accent
1:47:43
And that is an incredibly shallow thing to say. I mean incredibly shallow
1:47:47
But I live in Brexit Britain. This country has never been shallower
1:47:52
The electorate has never been less reliable. And there's something about, I say, I speak as the son of a Yorkshireman and a Yorkshirewoman
1:48:00
but who is very much the London-centric, centrist dad's paragon. I just think Labour need a leader with a northern accent
1:48:12
which puts Andy Burnham and Angela Rayner in the frame, doesn't it
1:48:17
that leaves at the moment, Wes Streeting, and people talk a lot about Ed Miliband as a dark horse
1:48:25
but I can't quite see that myself. I don't think it matters to the exclusion of all else
1:48:30
that he has already had one go and failed, but I just don't think the electorate would be very grateful
1:48:36
for being given an opportunity to have another bite of Ed Miliband's cherry
1:48:42
So I think we'll do. who would be, well, not who would be better and why
1:48:48
who do you want and why? 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need
1:48:56
Who do you want and why? Because I'll tell you what, two things
1:49:01
When you think that things can't get any worse, you're almost certainly wrong. Things can always get worse
1:49:07
which is the follow-up to DREAM, things that can only get better
1:49:11
that was considerably less successful. things can always get worse. However bad things are
1:49:16
I don't know why my accent's gone a bit northern on this but it sounds like a Yorkshire aphorism, doesn't it
1:49:21
However bad things are, son things can always get worse. They can always get worse
1:49:26
However bad things are it's a bit more Manchester than Yorkshire, perhaps
1:49:30
It's got a touch of the John Cooper Clarks to it. However bad things are
1:49:34
things can always get worse. And, I mean, the corollary of that
1:49:40
is that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, of course. but who would make a difference and why
1:49:48
And there is every opportunity that you'll be hearing this phoning a lot in the coming weeks
1:49:52
I'll do my level best to do it as rarely as possible, but sometimes it's the only question to ask
1:49:58
Keir Starmer's hanging on. If someone were to mount a coup now, I think they would succeed
1:50:04
But so far, no one has found whatever it is you need to mount that coup
1:50:10
So I'll give you four. You can add names to the list. Darren Jones makes a fairly good impression when he comes into studios
1:50:17
Wes Streeting, Angela Rayner, Andy Burnham, Ed Miliband, his name is always there or thereabouts
1:50:26
and Darren Jones we can add to the list. There's that defence lad as well
1:50:30
Al Carnes is also sort of... I think sometimes it is the one on the outside lane that you need to watch
1:50:37
But who would make a difference? And I want your answer, if it can, to encompass some of the things that we've been talking about
1:50:42
for the last two hours, some of the reasons why Starmer has failed
1:50:47
where do you derive your optimism that this candidate would not fall into the same pratfalls
1:50:53
would not make the same mistakes, and would not fall at the same hurdles? Who do you want to lead the Labour Party and why
1:51:00
And I'm not taking Keir Starmer off that list. Because if you've been dismayed by all the people
1:51:05
ringing up to write his epitaph, then by all means, contribute to the next bit of the conversation
1:51:12
the reasons why you think he deserves to stay. So who do you want to be leader of the Labour Party and why
1:51:19
0345 6060 973 is the number you need. James O'Brien on LBC
1:51:27
5.16 is the time. Lots of questions on the board, lots of calls on the board
1:51:30
and lots of contributors waiting to come on. So we'll get through as much as we can
1:51:35
I know what you're thinking. Why don't you shut up then? Which is a perfectly valid criticism every single day
1:51:40
Michael's in Haywick. Michael, what would you like to say? Good afternoon, James
1:51:45
Hello, Mike. It's actually Hoyk. It's not Helic, it's Hoyk in the Scottish Borders
1:51:50
Sorry, mate. I love you, James. I love you, mate. I've already butchered various northern accents
1:51:56
and now I've butchered the pronunciation of a very northern town. Go on, then. Yeah
1:52:01
Sorry. A long, long, long time listener, James. It's the first time called, so please be kind
1:52:07
Of course I will. I normally listen to you on catch-up on my way to and from work
1:52:14
but I've recently retired. I'm a retired train driver. And before I say something, I just wanted to pass on my sincere thanks for your support
1:52:23
Oh thank you You welcome In my mind in my mind the Labour Party has just forgotten who they are When you go back to when the Labour Party introduced brought us the NHS
1:52:35
they were a socialist party. They're supposed to be a socialist party and they're not
1:52:39
At the moment, they spend more focus on winning votes from the right wing of the world
1:52:45
instead of being honest about what they stand for. So they come out with this stuff about the boats
1:52:51
and what they're going to do to stop the boats when really what they should be doing is what they're going to do to help these people
1:52:55
because they're too scared of losing votes and stuff like that. They've just forgotten who they are
1:53:02
And with respect to who do I want to take over from Keir Starmer
1:53:07
it needs to be somebody who is a socialist. I'm not a socialist, but I believe in socialist values
1:53:13
I believe in helping those less well off than us, and I believe in those that have more, should pay more, and stuff like that
1:53:20
And we're so far from that. It's just not true. I think about this as often as other people think about the Roman Empire
1:53:27
I have got a theory that most people don't want to be perceived as needing help
1:53:37
And what happens then is that you very easily portray a left-wing party
1:53:42
as being dedicated exclusively to the interests of people who need help
1:53:47
which creates two enormous problems. The first is that most people don't want to be categorised as needing help, even if they do need help
1:53:55
And the second is that it shuts down that slightly cynical line about strivers and alarm clock Britain
1:54:02
And what Labour should be doing is looking after people who go to work
1:54:06
So there's a perception that the people who need help are not the same as the people who go to work
1:54:11
And that is where your contribution both thrives and fails. Because at the moment, they're not making that clear
1:54:19
When we say we're going to help people who need help, we mean people who go to work as well as people who can't
1:54:24
That's what I mean. I'm not just on about those that can't work. I'm on about the working
1:54:29
The Labour Party was born from the unions of the world. The Labour Party was a leftist
1:54:34
The workers, the workers created the Labour Party for the workers. And this current Labour Party doesn't care about the workers
1:54:42
That's how it seems. When you look at things like the level of tax
1:54:46
and when you pay the higher rate level of tax and how long it stayed at the same level for years and years and years
1:54:51
And they don't care about that. They care more about right-wing voting, winning people over and saying things..
1:54:58
They'd say they've done both. Yeah, I agree with you. And you don't believe it. The problem is if you're a racist voter, you don't believe
1:55:03
even if Labour brought immigration down to zero, you're never going to believe that they hate the immigrants like you do
1:55:08
or like Nigel seems to. They're never going to steal that vote
1:55:11
They're never going to win it back if it's built upon bigotry and bigotry and hatred. but... It constantly astounds me
1:55:17
how the mainstream media keep going on about cutting taxes and cutting this and this is the party to cut
1:55:23
like the reform party or the conservative party want to cut taxes and people
1:55:27
don't understand that when you cut taxes you cut services you cut your council
1:55:32
services, your NHS, your police everything gets cut but these people that vote for these
1:55:39
parties don't seem to understand that you're actually cutting your nose off to spite your face
1:55:44
What was it an Irene Bevin had to say about the purpose of the conservative party in the 20th century was to persuade poverty to use its political power to keep wealth in power
1:55:57
And here we are. Exactly, and they continue to do that to this day, within the 21st century, 2026
1:56:04
I've got colleagues and friends who I still stay friends with, but I do not understand how they..
1:56:10
I've got a colleague who's trying to move to Scotland who's convinced that the Reform Party are the best thing for Scotland
1:56:16
Good Lord. It's like, and you try and explain to them, actually, no, there's just a bunch of billionaires
1:56:22
who want to make more billions for themselves, and they can't see it
1:56:26
who of the potential contenders Michael who do you think might be able to deliver some of what you describe
1:56:35
I'm Scotty to my friends and as far as I'm on I don't know enough about
1:56:41
him but if he's a socialist person as I'm being told then Andy Burnham's the only option
1:56:47
West Street and I like however he's a right wing Steve Reid
1:56:52
he's the guy that he's the guy that was instrumental in bringing down Jeremy Corbyn
1:56:58
with his Labour together, their shadow party or whatever it was. So Steve Reid's going to support Keir Starmer
1:57:06
That's another thing, Jeremy. Sorry, James. That's another thing, James. There has been, and it was more prevalent under Boris Johnson
1:57:15
there has been for decades now, another current in government where it's all about what's best for me
1:57:22
stuff for the British public what's best for me. So your Steve Reeds and your Boris Johnsons
1:57:28
are of that ilk. They just care about what's best for them. I don't think Keir Starmer was of that ilk
1:57:34
was he? No, I didn't say no. No, I know you didn't. You've got to write bee in your bonnet about Steve Reeds
1:57:40
He's not someone that beeps. He doesn't beep on my radar particularly loudly
1:57:46
Honestly, he's not. That's all right. It's like Lauren agrees with you
1:57:51
He's a monster, according to one of the texters, so you're not on your own. I'm in agreement with you with respect to Jeremy Corbyn
1:57:58
I was dearly hoping that he was going to win. However, Jeremy Corbyn let us down massively
1:58:05
In my opinion, he let us down with Brexit. He just did not come out and commit either way
1:58:12
If he'd have committed to staying in, which was against his ideal, that would have been good
1:58:18
If he'd have committed to coming out, If he'd have shown his true colours, he let us down massively
1:58:23
He let us down massively. And we are, of course, still paying the price
1:58:27
or still reaping the consequences of everything that went on during that mad period in British politics
1:58:32
The only thing that I think everyone could agree on is that the madness was not confined to the referendum
1:58:37
and its immediate aftermath. There's a pretty strong case for arguing that what we're talking about today
1:58:41
and what we're looking at today is a consequence or an echo of that madness as well
1:58:46
That quote in full, which I used to read out on a daily basis on the programme
1:58:49
how can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power
1:58:54
Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics in the 20th century
1:58:58
There's one very obvious answer to that question that Anirin Bevin posed
1:59:02
probably not far off 100 years ago, probably 80 years ago. How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power
1:59:11
Well, you could give £5 million secretly to the bloke that you want to be Prime Minister
1:59:16
That would be one way. If you think that that bloke has a peculiar ability to persuade poverty
1:59:21
to vote for whatever it is that he represents, then that would be one very obvious answer to the question
1:59:27
of how wealth can persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power
1:59:32
Give five million quid to a lying populist and just count the billions
1:59:37
Thank you, Michael. Hoik, hoik, hoik, hoik, hoik. Don't let me get that wrong next time
1:59:44
Sean's in Chester. Sean, what would you like to say? In the last 10 years
2:00:01
Absolutely bonkers. So this concept of recycling through prime ministers every two years
2:00:08
you know, clearly isn't having the positive effect that, you know, everybody wants it
2:00:14
It ain't working, is it? No, it's not. You know, you keep trying the same thing over and over again
2:00:19
You know, think what it took over from, you know, 14 years worth of, you know, damage
2:00:26
certainly after Brexit, certainly coming out of COVID, you know, it accelerated the damage and probably the decline of the country
2:00:35
is essentially turning a tank around. And, you know, can you expect somebody to do that in less than two years
2:00:44
And while public discourse is being dictated and determined by institutions and individuals who deny the mess that he inherited
2:00:53
or at least deny the causes of the mess, I mean, this has been the thing that I've watched with increasing horror over the last two years
2:00:59
It's the people who brought you Brexit, who brought you austerity, who brought you Boris Johnson, who brought you Liz Truss
2:01:04
all sitting there going, car, that Keir Starmer's a right disaster. Look, he can't get us out of this hole that we dug
2:01:10
But they never mentioned that they dug it, which makes Keir Starmer's job infinitely harder
2:01:14
Yeah, and, you know, there is work to be done. And I think what they need to be better at is explaining the why behind decisions that they make
2:01:24
You know, I'm not saying that. The perfect, that they've got everything right
2:01:28
and, you know, there has been some backtracking, and, you know, but you've got to put that, you know
2:01:34
there's advisors around him that should be saying, you know, come on, Kia
2:01:39
Is that really the best decision? It's been two years, man. It's been two years, and I'd have taken that a year ago
2:01:46
I'd have taken it 18 months ago, but two years in, it ain't ever going to happen, is it
2:01:50
It's something about him, not the advisors. There's something about him that's maybe not up to it
2:01:56
Yeah, it does. And is it a case of, you know, if the face fits? And clearly right now the face doesn't fit
2:02:02
But, you know, I really like the way he's come out and said, I'm getting on with it
2:02:06
Yeah, I do. I do too. But then I feel the hope. If you remember that line in, um
2:02:10
I've just done an Irene Bevan. I'll do John Cleese now in Clockwise when he says, it's not the despair that gets you
2:02:16
Joanne, I think the character's cool. It's not the despair that gets you, Joanne. I can deal with the despair
2:02:20
It's the hope. It's the hope that gets you, Sean, every time. And that's where the whole coal, he's looking tough, he's standing up
2:02:25
he's not going to be bullied into walking away. Oh, lordy, lordy
2:02:30
But yeah, Mark, you know, I'd certainly, you know, stick with him because I don't think there's anybody else out there who could do..
2:02:38
You've got to remember as well, if you want to replace someone, you've got to replace someone with someone that we think is better for the long term
2:02:45
Is there really anyone out there, A, that's proven that they're better in the long term at what he's doing
2:02:52
so you know it's very easy to put names forward you know to replace someone who we essentially
2:02:58
think is underperforming but there's no track record there's no there's the weirdest thing
2:03:04
isn't it there's a lot of parallels with football and and i don't just say that as the man who
2:03:09
invented the word footballification um but david baddiel said on sky news last night that he
2:03:15
you know it's like football now the new manager comes in and he has to win he has to if he has
2:03:19
five bad games, then they're already talking about getting rid of him. Politics didn't used to be like that
2:03:24
But you never hire a football manager. You very rarely hire a football manager who's not proved
2:03:29
himself or herself in the past. Occasionally, you might hire someone who hasn't
2:03:33
got a great managerial record or a very long managerial record, but they were a brilliant
2:03:37
player, usually for the club that they're going in to manage. But politics never demands
2:03:41
that, really, does it? It never really demands pedigree and track record when it comes to people vying to replace the
2:03:47
leader or vying to replace the prime minister. Yeah, when you look at, you know, the best footballers in the world, Wayne Rooney, Roy Keane, Steven Gerrard
2:03:57
Are you saved in that? No, they're not very good managers. They're not very good managers
2:04:03
So how do you decide who you're going to be? Being a good mayor of Manchester, a popular mayor of Manchester
2:04:08
may have zero bearing on whether or not you're going to make a decent prime minister. It's coming up to half past 12. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
2:04:16
It was Laura, not Joanne, in Clockwise, so Sarah in Rygate. They're the kind of fact checks I like
2:04:21
I can deal with the despair, Laura. It's the hope that gets me
2:04:26
Which pretty much sums up my attitude to politics, football and indeed life
2:04:31
Here's Amelia Cox with the headlines. James O'Brien on LBC. Well, 32 is the time you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
2:04:41
I mean, that is in many ways, and you may not like me for pointing this out, but there is Keir Starmer's current plight and problem in a nutshell
2:04:48
The headline is, Keir Starmer is going nowhere. And of course, many people respond by going
2:04:52
well, that's precisely the problem. In every sense of the word. Natasha Clarke has spent the morning
2:04:58
barking fruitlessly at people outside Downing Street. I didn't have too much luck, did I
2:05:03
I know, I think I do need a strepsel. Has anyone ever got a story in those circles? Has anyone ever gone
2:05:07
Mr. Srini, do you have a compartment where you've been resigning? And then someone's wandered over and gone, do you know what, Natasha
2:05:11
Yeah, you know what, I do think. I am resigning. And also, I'm going to be applying for the new job
2:05:15
as manager of Manchester United. Get a proper exclusive. Well, sometimes they do, you know, when you say to them
2:05:21
do you think the Prime Minister should stay? They go, yes. Or sometimes they say, you know, they give you a sort of knowing look
2:05:26
or sometimes they give you a smile. And I think you can tell a lot about the Cabinet
2:05:30
and how the feeling is in there from their expressions on their faces
2:05:35
So everybody going in today, James, was so glum. Absolutely straight faces
2:05:40
But yes, we did hear a few words from some of the people on the way out
2:05:44
One of the people I did manage to grab was Liz Kendall, the technology secretary
2:05:48
Here was what she told me just after coming out of that cabinet meeting. And that our job is to do what we were elected to do, which is to serve the British public, to focus on their jobs and futures, not our own
2:05:59
He has my full support. The prime minister rightly said there's a process to challenge the leadership
2:06:06
There is no challenge. so I'm going to do what my job is
2:06:11
which is to go and focus on what the British people want which is their jobs, their future
2:06:15
Are you happy with what you've heard Liz today from the Prime Minister? Absolutely
2:06:19
Do you think he's got the right man to take us through? He is the right man to focus on what the public elected us to do
2:06:25
Thank you Liz So that was loyalty from Liz which obviously we expected
2:06:29
no one was expecting that she was going to come out and launch a leadership challenge
2:06:33
but there was a relatively glum face and complete silence from one other man
2:06:40
Mr Streeting? Mr Streeting? Have you got any words about the Prime Minister
2:06:47
Should the Prime Minister go? Where's Streeting? You can't hear my tumbleweed, but there is one there
2:06:55
Well, and people may not fully understand why that is pertinent and important
2:06:59
because there is absolutely nothing to stop him doing what Liz Kendall did
2:07:03
or a fraction of what Liz Kendall did, or a simple hello nothing to say today I here to do my job as always but silence to coin a phrase Natasha Clarke sometimes speaks volumes It does It really does today speak volumes And I think we just in the last few minutes or so got a bit of a reason why he might have had silence this morning as he left that cabinet meeting
2:07:25
And why he actually left. He's one of the last people to leave. I've just been told by a government source that Keir said in cabinet today that he wouldn't discuss the elections or his leadership
2:07:35
and he will only speak to cabinet ministers about that individually. I'm then told that West Streeting wanted to speak to Keir Starmer after cabinet
2:07:43
but I'm told according to at least one source, trying to stand that up with other people who were in the room
2:07:49
after the meeting he refused to see cabinet ministers individually. So it sounded like West Streeting tried to have a conversation with the prime minister
2:07:56
Keir said at the cabinet meeting, Keir Starmer said at the cabinet meeting, I'm not going to discuss this now, this is for the business of government
2:08:01
and that might be why West Streeting is feeling and sounding quite so silent this afternoon
2:08:08
Uncharacteristically silent. I don't mean that in a snide way. He is normally quite media-friendly and quite talkative
2:08:14
He is and he's normally one of the government's, I think, many people will agree best defenders in terms of his communication style
2:08:21
He's very good at coming on the media, coming on the radio to talk to us and to make the case for the government
2:08:27
So it is really absent. It is a big elephant in the room here
2:08:31
because he's not saying anything, he's not talking. So the question is, is he going to launch a leadership campaign today
2:08:38
Keir Starmer saying, I'm going to fight on unless you formally trigger that ballot. And at the moment, it hasn't happened
2:08:44
Would they wait until after the King's speech? Do you think it'd be very, very odd to expect the King to stand up
2:08:49
or indeed sit down in the House of Commons tomorrow and House of Lords tomorrow and talk about my government
2:08:57
when that government is in a state of, at the very least, flux
2:09:01
Completely. Don't worry, Keith, I said flux with an L. I think if I were the government right now
2:09:07
that would be exactly what I'd be telling MPs. I'd be saying, do you really want to embarrass the king tomorrow
2:09:11
on his big day when he's doing the state opening of Parliament? And that, I think, is actually a really powerful message
2:09:17
I think that number 10, that cabinet ministers who are seeking to be loyal to the prime minister
2:09:21
could make to MPs that are thinking today. And actually, I thought it was interesting as well
2:09:25
we've had one ministerial resignation, but actually we had quite a flood of PPSs yesterday
2:09:30
So I do wonder if that message has got back to some ministers this morning
2:09:34
that potentially were thinking about their position, potentially thinking about calling for the Prime Minister to go
2:09:39
and wondering, well, if West Reading's not going to launch, if Andy Burnham's not got a seat sorted
2:09:43
is it really worth me resigning my seat and calling for the Prime Minister to go, especially bearing in mind what we've got in 24 hours' time with the King opening Parliament
2:09:51
Mm, indeedy-doody. Did you see that quote that, I can't remember who picked it up
2:09:58
Hang on, Jessica Elgott picked up from an MP yesterday. We have to face up to the fact that every single one of them
2:10:02
is chuffing useless. Andy's strategy has been a disaster. Angela has bottled it
2:10:07
Ed clearly is on a hiding to nothing. Wes is AWOL. God knows what Catherine West is doing
2:10:11
I'm not quite sure how we ended up here because either we've all got very excited and carried away
2:10:17
over nothing, obviously, but more smoke than fire, or they have all failed to make a move
2:10:24
at a time when making a move would probably have been successful. Yes, and I think there is a question today for those leadership hopefuls
2:10:33
because we obviously have the numbers, right? There are 81 MPs that do want to see Sir Keir
2:10:38
Starmer go. There are not 81 MPs that are coalesced around any one particular candidate. So
2:10:44
is the question that, yeah, if you're an MP, you want to see that sort of strength
2:10:48
and is it now time to show strength and courage in calling for Keir Starmer to go? When does that overtake the loyalty to your government and the strength and courage
2:10:55
of standing together. You know, I can't speak for MPs. All I can speak for is the people that have spoken to me
2:11:01
and that tell me that things are in such a mess and that can't continue. I think there is a general sense
2:11:07
that this sort of continued chaos is not good for everyone. Look at the guilt markets this morning
2:11:13
Look at the bond markets. Look at everything that's happening around the world. And actually, I spoke to somebody else
2:11:19
another government source, who said that they don't think there was any dissent at Cabinet
2:11:24
Someone also made the point to me that John Healy made the point to Cabinet today
2:11:29
that people are worried about the rising conflicts, they're worried about the war in Iran, Putin testing our defences
2:11:36
They mentioned there is a few big weeks ahead for NATO, ahead of this summit. They said the full focus right now must be on the job of government
2:11:43
So it is a question as well that MPs will be pondering the moral case
2:11:47
for causing yet more instability when we are in such a dangerous world right now
2:11:53
And I imagine that's exactly what John Healy was saying to the Prime Minister when he was speaking to him when he came into Number 10 Downing Street yesterday
2:12:00
So there's a lot of things that MPs are thinking of. There's so much disquiet, so much unhappiness, but they've got some really big moral choices to make today
2:12:07
What's the sort of equivalent of the chair of the 1922 committee
2:12:11
We talk a lot when the Tories are in turmoil about the 1922 committee, but actually it's just messenger, not means
2:12:16
Well, it's Catherine West, isn't it, now? Well, it's not, though, is it? Because she probably can't even get through the door of Downing Street at the moment
2:12:23
And as Alistair Campbell pointed out yesterday, if there is a grand plan starring Catherine West and a few PPSs, then it doesn't feel terribly thought through
2:12:32
A period of calm would do none of them any harm. The general election is a fair way off
2:12:36
The next legislative programme is about to be unveiled. There are better ways to reach such an important decision and better times too
2:12:43
You are MPs, not commentators, who exist to feed a frenzy. perhaps a perspective that's been heard enough this morning
2:12:50
but it's taken up by another Labour member Alistair Campbell of course never an MP
2:12:54
Andrew Lewin who I think sits in Welling Hatfield is that Grant Shapps' old constituency
2:13:00
It is, yeah. I am asking colleagues not to walk into a trap a leadership contest now would be a gift to our opponents
2:13:06
and do long-term damage to the Labour Party and more importantly the country
2:13:10
the PM has my support and I've penned the below after watching his speech
2:13:14
and Mr Lewin then shares a rather insightful substack that I read yesterday
2:13:20
Those voices are not being heard enough, perhaps, today, or those voices are not common enough to be heard more
2:13:26
It's hard to call. They're also probably not strong enough at this point in time. When you've got MPs and ministers saying what, you know
2:13:31
they'd said to Jessica Albert, what they're saying to myself and Aggie Schombro day in, day out
2:13:35
that those voices are really strong. And it is fair to say that, you know
2:13:39
I tend to talk to the same sort of MPs really regularly. and the number of people who have slowly come to the conclusion
2:13:46
that they don't think that Keir Starmer should continue leading the party, it's been a very slow process for some and a very quick process for others
2:13:54
Some were saying this six months a year ago and some have only just come to this conclusion in the last week
2:13:59
So it's not that simple, I think, in terms of the voices that are being heard
2:14:05
and sort of what is and what isn't helpful. And when you say there's no men in grey seats, there isn't
2:14:10
I have talked yesterday about the woman in the red jacket, which I'm calling Anna Turley
2:14:14
She's the Labour Party chair. Or his wife, I've heard. It could be Victoria Starmer who actually is the one that eventually says let call it quits Well actually interestingly Beth Rebeer asked about that I don know if you heard that at the press conference yesterday She said you know what does Vic think about all of this
2:14:29
And he said, you know, Vic and I are in constant communication. We talk about all of these things
2:14:33
We talk about everything. Everything's talked through. And he didn't say, you know, she thinks I should stay
2:14:37
She thinks I should go. But clearly the Prime Minister feels like that. And clearly he is determined to fight on
2:14:43
And, you know, I think that has really solidified minds in the last few sort of hours from amongst MPs
2:14:48
the chaos that you might bring to the Labour Party, to this government, might be something that the Labour Party cannot recover from
2:14:54
very much like the Tories. Indeedy doody. And other party leaders have their problems as well
2:14:59
Nigel Farage, of course, has five million, at least, that we know about. But Zach Polanski having to issue..
2:15:04
Is this his third apology in a week? Or is it the second? It's a lot. There was the apology for sharing a tweet attacking the police
2:15:11
when they collared that character in Golders Green. Was there another one
2:15:18
he has apologised quite a lot in the last week and now he's apologising because he did indeed
2:15:23
not pay council tax when he lived on a c boat and that means not only is he apologising
2:15:28
but he's also given false information to media making inquiries when oh we forgot about the
2:15:34
red cross of course he apologised saying that he was not a red cross that was it i knew there
2:15:37
was at least that was less than a week three and a week that was last wednesday so there you go
2:15:42
So this one is three years of not paying council tax, which is tricky for him, albeit that he is becoming one of those politicians whose most ardent admirers will never admit any wrongdoing or any fault
2:15:55
But it's tricky for someone whose platform largely consists of calling for people to pay more tax
2:16:01
That's exactly it. And that's exactly what the crux of this issue is. And, you know, I do think that many people out there and many members of the public will find it incredibly difficult to believe that you don't know where you're paying council tax
2:16:12
and you don't know if you've paid it or not, purely because it's such a large bill for many of us as well
2:16:16
So it is quite something for Zach Polanski to admit. So he said that he apologises sincerely for the unintentional mistake
2:16:24
but I think it does feel like there have been quite a lot of unintentional mistakes in the last seven days, and for Zach Polanski
2:16:30
it's just another sign of the intensity, the spotlight, that is going to come his way if the Greens continue to do well
2:16:37
up until the general election, right? There was another one yesterday, wasn't there? What was that separate from the Red Cross one when he said he'd been working for the
2:16:42
Department of Justice in diversity and... That was... Yes, that was it
2:16:47
That was a report in the Telegraph yesterday. So that's four. Whereas, in fact, he was hired as an actor to pretend to be a criminal in a recruitment
2:16:53
process for judges, which is not exactly the impression that's given by claiming that you've
2:16:56
been working for the Department of Justice. It feels a little disingenuous at best, doesn't it
2:17:01
What's the biggest fib on your CV? Biggest fib on my CV. Or embellishment
2:17:05
Probably my brilliant radio experience, I presume. That's absolutely stone-crowed. That's not an opinion, Natasha
2:17:10
That's just counting. No, that's not. I used to have on my CV, as written everywhere from the Daily Mirror to the Spectator
2:17:17
which was true, but I only wrote one article for the Spectator. It was on the cover
2:17:21
I mean, it was... I used to have it framed, but sadly, given what happened to the Spectator in the ensuing years
2:17:26
it ended up in a skip and indeed being removed from my CV. But that was an embellishment rather than a blatant..
2:17:31
Or at least it gave a slightly false impression. When I say my radio skills are sort of, you know, two out of five rather than three out of five
2:17:36
I think that's fine. nonsense. Thank you, Natasha. The time is 12.45
2:17:40
James O'Brien on LBC. 12.48. Yesterday we had a Holocaust denier. We had a man calling for asylum seekers to be shot on sight
2:17:52
And we had a newly elected candidate describing Muslims as pure scum
2:17:58
That was day one of the new intake of reformed politicians. We also had the one calling for Nigerians to be melted down
2:18:06
and used to fill in potholes. The deputy leader of Durham County Council claimed he had been suspended
2:18:13
It then emerged that he hadn't. And Richard Tice, the deputy leader and major donor to Reform UK
2:18:20
in fact, they're all major donors, except Farage. He just takes money
2:18:26
So, what's the name of the chairman? Zia Yusuf has given a ton of money to the outfit
2:18:30
Richard Tice has given them a ton of money. Nigel Farage has not given them a ton of money
2:18:35
but has taken a ton of money from another major donor, albeit that the £5 million he took from Christopher Harbourn was secret
2:18:41
kept secret until journalists did their job. So that was yesterday. What's going on today
2:18:46
Thea Ricard is LBC's reporter in the South West. Start as you mean to go on, Thea
2:18:51
Well, James, in the last half an hour or so, Reform UK has exclusively told LBC that Councillor Glenn Gibbons
2:18:58
who was elected onto Sunderland City Council on Thursday, has now, we understand, been suspended from the party
2:19:05
Now, that's after, as you say, he accused, or he was accused of posting on social media
2:19:11
that Nigerians should be melted down to fill in potholes. Something, as you say, you remember the party's deputy leader
2:19:17
Richard Tice, refused to directly condemn over the weekend. Here he is speaking to Laura Kunzberg on Sunday
2:19:25
We have an internal party process, but here's the point. Well, it's not a very good one
2:19:29
If somebody expresses that, can be elected. We've heard all the smearing and the sneering. Let me tell you what people are really concerned about
2:19:33
No, forgive me. Laura, Laura, I'm going later to a campaign against the scourge of anti-Semitism
2:19:41
which is the greatest threat facing us here, particularly in London, but elsewhere across the UK
2:19:48
That's what people are really concerned about. Now, these suspensions are very much live
2:19:54
coming thick and fast every few hours, it seems, at the moment
2:19:57
You remember we spoke a few weeks ago, James, in the lead up to the local elections in England
2:20:02
And we had a look at some of the social media posts shared by the then Reform UK candidate Ben Rowe
2:20:08
one which he shared just last year depicted hundreds of Muslims in Mecca
2:20:12
which you'll know is the holiest site in Islam, being bombed. The caption to this post shared by Ben Rowe says
2:20:18
the fastest way to world peace. Now, I saw this firsthand on his social media
2:20:24
but it appears it has now been deleted. And despite this post and others like it
2:20:29
including one he shared depicting Patrick from SpongeBob as a Muslim holding a gun
2:20:35
hand in hand with a child wearing a hijab and a speech bubble identifying her as his girlfriend
2:20:42
Ben Rowe was elected to Plymouth City Council last Thursday, winning more than 1,600 votes
2:20:49
And the candidate, just to put that into context, who came second got around 700
2:20:54
So Mr Rowe was elected as a Reform UK councillor, but the party confirmed to LBC
2:20:59
he's now been suspended and remains under investigation for his posts on social media
2:21:05
Now when I asked exactly when he'd been suspended I was told earlier in the day yesterday
2:21:11
Sir James Benro was suspended on what was effectively his first day in the job
2:21:16
For the things that you brought to our attention a month ago there's no new information that is behind this suspension as far as we're aware
2:21:23
it's all the stuff that was already on the record and in the public domain. Indeed, indeed James, yes
2:21:28
and of course it's important to note the reforms still claim to have some of the strongest vetting procedures in the country It the best that money can buy I heard I don know how much money Five million quid keeps springing to mind
2:21:41
I can't possibly imagine why. Do we know about Stuart Pryor? Are you across Stuart Pryor
2:21:45
Good Lord. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, five million. It's getting ever closer
2:21:50
Do we know about Stuart Pryor or do I get the pleasure and the privilege of sharing that one
2:21:55
We do know. Let me take you through some of the others who we've seen suspended in the last few days
2:22:00
since the local elections, James. Jo Monk, who previously led Worcestershire County Council
2:22:05
has been suspended alongside her son, who is also a councillor, after criticism of the council's new leader on social media
2:22:13
In a statement, a reform spokesperson said councillors Ashley Monk and Jo Monk have been suspended
2:22:18
from Reform UK pending investigation. Also yesterday, we heard Essex County Council
2:22:24
and Rochford District Council Councillor Stuart Pryor resigned from reform, despite denying any wrongdoing, with the party announcing his membership had been revoked over alleged racist posts
2:22:36
So, yeah, as I say, these suspensions of new councillors by Reform UK coming thick and fast this afternoon
2:22:44
And while chaos within Labour might be the main story today, Reform certainly has their own problems after the local elections
2:22:50
Stuart Pryor describing white people as the master race, which will no doubt concern Richard Tice, given his professed concern for these kind of comments and these kind of issues
2:23:02
I mean, I'm struggling to keep count here, but you've done a brilliant job of steering us through the weeds
2:23:08
Alan Amos, the new leader down in Worcestershire, he's the guy that said that rape is easy to report and difficult to prove so that police should stop recording it as an offence
2:23:19
Although I suppose in Nigel Farage's defence, Alan Amos was a Tory when he said that
2:23:24
before defecting to reform and then being given the top job at Worcestershire County Council
2:23:30
I think I've got that right. Theo Ricard, thank you very much indeed. LBC's reporter in the South West doing a sterling job of keeping up with the rising tide of bigotry, racism
2:23:41
I mean, and worse, that is being brought into the public sphere by Nigel Farage's little helpers
2:23:47
it's extraordinary what five million pounds can buy you isn't it in this day and age uh coming up
2:23:53
to 12 55 you're listening to james o'brien shall we return to the big questions of the day have i
2:23:57
done my bit have i done all my bits i've done i've got him and him one two three four five six seven
2:24:04
and counting of course i suppose behind the bigotry and the racism it's also worth pointing
2:24:09
out that they're all so stupid aren't they i mean they're not suggesting that an intelligent racist
2:24:14
is preferable to a thick racist. But it's not exactly a wonderful advertisement
2:24:19
for our democratic process that these really thick people are getting elected
2:24:23
and doing cartoons of SpongeBob, Islamophobic cartoons of SpongeBob SquarePants or claiming that Nigerians..
2:24:31
First of all, that comment, if you see a black person in the street, how do you know where they're from
2:24:36
Chances are, if you see them on the street in this country, they're British. But how on earth would you determine
2:24:41
that somebody with black skin is Nigerian? I've no idea, but they're just so thick
2:24:47
That's the weirdest thing about the people drawn to Nigel Farage. They are obviously and often racist
2:24:54
but they are almost always really stupid as well. 12.55 is the time, and it has happened
2:25:01
The thing I suggested to you at the very top of the show would be something of a game-changer
2:25:07
Despite Keir Starmer's resolve to fight on, Jess Phillips has broken cover and resigned from the government
2:25:16
That is a significant development. She is, of course, the Minister for Safeguarding
2:25:22
and a particularly effective parliamentarian, a tireless campaigner for women's rights, who, to return to one of my themes on this programme
2:25:32
who has also, of course, come under extraordinary attack from the sort of far-right horror show that dominates social media
2:25:39
despite having dedicated her entire pre-political working life to looking after vulnerable and abused women
2:25:45
Jess Phillips has now resigned from the government as safeguarding minister, which I'm lucky
2:25:51
It's up to Sheila now to make predictions. I'm about to clock off for the day, but I suspect that will be the beginning
2:25:58
rather than the end of a process. Only time will tell. I did have an unhinged headline for you
2:26:04
My apologies to James and Mike, who are still hanging on in the hope of getting on the programme
2:26:08
but I'll just say good afternoon to you both. James, I'm sorry, I don't think I'm going to have time to hear
2:26:12
Can you do it in a sentence? Yes. Go on then. I think Clive Lewis would be a great Prime Minister
2:26:24
He's got the intellect, he's a great campaigner and a great communicator
2:26:30
and the media seem to have decided already who's going to be the Labour leader
2:26:35
I haven't. I am the media. I haven't, but I mean, it's up to Clive Lewis, isn't it
2:26:40
whether he throws his hat into the ring, and then up to the Parliamentary Labour Party, whether they propel him forward
2:26:44
but nice to see other names on the list. And Mike in Daventry, Mike, in a sentence? Yeah, I think the one with the best reputation
2:26:52
and probably the media would have trouble is Al Kahn's. Yeah, I mean..
2:26:59
Or hero. Yes, it cometh the hour. Calvin Bailey was very impressive in this studio not long ago as well
2:27:05
so it could well be, if it's a longer process, If it is a matter of Keir Starmer setting a date
2:27:10
and then having a relatively peaceful progress to it, it could well be that some unexpected names appear
2:27:15
and some interesting characters emerge. But, just because traditions are important, I do have for you now one of the arguably all-time great..
2:27:26
Unhinged Headline. This is from Melanie Phillips in The Times, who I'm not sure has ever written an article
2:27:32
that didn't appear under an unhinged headline. Badenock shows the spine voters want to see
2:27:39
This is proof of what I predicted yesterday is now happening. Kami Badenock is walking around the world as if she's won everything
2:27:47
I don't know what the football equivalent would be, but it's having an empty trophy cabinet, but doing 74 laps of honour
2:27:54
And if she does it this persistently and this effectively, then eventually people are going to start thinking she's actually a winner who's doing well
2:28:01
And first of all is Melanie Phillips, with Bader Not shows the spine voters want to see
2:28:06
This after an extraordinary rejection of Bader Not by those self-same voters
2:28:13
Unhinged Headline. If you missed any of today's show, you can listen back on our free Global Player app
2:28:18
or the LBC app, where you can also stay up to date with all the latest news, videos and opinions
2:28:23
You can listen to a range of podcasts, including James O'Brien Daily, the best bit from my LBC show every day
2:28:28
Download the official LBC app for free from your app store now. Coming up at four on LBC, it's Tom Swarbrick
2:28:33
But now it's time for... Sheila Fogarty! I don't think I've ever had a drumroll before
2:28:39
Thank you very much indeed. She'll make it a daily occurrence from now on. OK, good God, don't do that
2:28:44
James O'Brien on LBC
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