0:00
What do you attribute your loss and the loss in Thurrock
0:03
but also, let's be honest, local government across the country? Why? Why has it been so bad
0:08
It's a combination of a lot of things. On the doorsteps, I was hearing a lot of anger, really
0:14
towards the government and the direction that we've taken. A lot of people felt quite apathetic
0:20
Some people felt a bit betrayed by the government, unfortunately. And I think we had a difficult situation in Thurrock
0:28
We inherited £1.5 billion of debt from the Conservatives, and we worked really hard to reduce that by over £700 million
0:36
But I just think at the end of the day, people are not feeling great nationally, and it just reflected locally
0:42
The Education Secretary, I don't know if you heard, she said that the Prime Minister came up on the doors
0:45
but maybe not as much as you think. Was that your experience? In my personal experience, he came up quite a bit
0:54
Amongst other things, I think the general direction of the party, it's not just a personal problem for Keir Starmer
1:00
I think it's the direction of the party that we've taken overall. In what way? I think that we've made some positive changes
1:08
but those are not really being felt at the local level. You know, local government's very grassroots in people's day-to-day lives
1:15
They're really struggling, and it's very easy to conflate the national picture with the local
1:19
So it all just turns into one thing that people aren't happy with
1:24
And when the Prime Minister did come up, What was the sort of thing that people said about him
1:30
They weren't particularly happy with some of the U-turns which have been made
1:36
Winter fuel allowance still comes up. Even now? Yep even now Remarkable that isn it What was actually a relatively small amount of money and a small thing Yeah Even now that toxin that rot seems to have just not been able to be removed Yes it just people bringing up
1:52
that they just don't feel better off right now. And they attribute that to the government
1:59
Do you want to change at the top? I think even if we change the person
2:06
the problem is bigger than any one person. It's bigger than Keir Starmer
2:10
about the decisions that we're making. And I don't think we're communicating
2:14
the amount of good work we're doing effectively. And we also need to listen to people more
2:19
I just heard from one councillor who lost their seat. You're another councillor who's lost their seat
2:24
How do you feel about the Prime Minister and where the Labour Party is going? I think both Bridget Philipson and Starmer
2:30
need to give their head a wobble because if they think they can just write off
2:35
thousands and thousands of hard-working Labour councillors up and down this country as if they just can fodder
2:40
and they don't matter for their project, is actually unbelievable. And it goes right back to the beginning
2:46
14 years we waited, 50 years I've been in the Labour Party
2:50
and was kicked out of the Labour Party three months ago because I called exactly three months, six months ago, sorry
2:58
for what's happened yesterday, that Starmer needed to take a long hard look to himself over the Mandelson issue and other issues
3:04
and the judgment were called into question. And I'm sick of it now sometimes from Labour councillors yesterday and the day before suggesting, well, he ought to resign
3:12
Well, if they'd join me six months since and took the stand that I took, well, there's a possibility, you know, we might have fared up better
3:20
I sit on a council that yesterday, on Thursday, Lewis, had 48 Labour councillors
3:25
We got one Wow That a boy Phil One left out of the 63 councillors There were 48 Labour half a dozen you know odds and swords liberals and you know a couple of other independents
3:38
We've now got none. We've got 58 reform, two green, two liberal
3:45
and one lone conservative got back, and that is it. We've got one councillor, one Labour councillor out of 48 been returned
3:53
and it takes me, and people write what they're saying, and I'm sick to death, a Lammy and other people making excuses
4:01
To be fair, Steve, the Education Secretary, I mean, she was pretty frank
4:04
I mean, she didn't try and sugarcoat it. She said this isn't mid-term stuff. This is really, really serious
4:09
But you know what, Lewis, I don't buy into this mid-term stuff. 14 years we waited, and I listened to your debate last week
4:16
regarding Farage's inability to explain why he got his £5 million. But you know what
4:22
When you wait that long in areas like mine, mining areas, that's been left behind since the 1980s, since Thatcher and the rest of them crippled communities like mine
4:33
You know what, Lewis? We don't even need to take a free carrier bag from the Asda
4:38
God, we didn't need to do that. We needed to be whiter than white, never mind glasses and suits to go into Downing Street
4:45
When I got elected to be a councillor 15 years ago, I went to River Island and bought myself a tool to look decent and pay for my own money
4:53
And I just feel as though all these people, the cabinets coming down this morning saying, we've got to do this, we've got to do that
5:00
We've got to. What we're sticking with, we're sticking. There is no vision. There is nothing taking us forward
5:06
The very first thing we did having had 14 years of austerity we came into power and except the finances weren brilliant and we were picking up a bad lot but the first thing we did we kicked us pensions into the touch and took the winter fuel allowance off them That the first thing that we did And the exact failure to look at raising taxes from the richest
5:27
5%. And that's where it's all going on because to see them and I've lived and worked in my
5:33
community. I'm 68 years old now. I've worked it for 50 years since I was 18. I've been a party
5:38
members since I was 18, and that's what I was getting on the doorstep in my community
5:42
And I could get returned in this community year in, year out as a local
5:46
councillor, with over 2,000 votes above anybody else. And although I can accept that
5:52
I accept the feet, and I'm a Democrat, but at least, for what it's worth
5:56
I came forth behind the three new reform councils that were elected because
5:59
we had all-out elections. Just very briefly, Steve, do you think the Prime Minister ought to go
6:05
I think he ought to have gone months ago to be quiet and honest with you
6:09
And I think if he'd gone months ago, Lewis, I think we might have stood half a chance
6:14
And I don't think he's probably a bad person. I've never particularly met him in person
6:20
I don't think he's a bad person, but he's certainly not cut out with no career to lead us
6:25
And is there anyone, Steve, if he were to be replaced, who do you think it ought to be
6:30
who might be able to resurrect the passer? To be quiet and honest with you, the way I look at the situation
6:34
at whatever time it is this Sunday morning, I don't really know. And I've listened to what the guy that spoke, the part of your show, the professor from Manchester University
6:43
I think we're on the road to extinction. And people like Bridget Phillipson, my MP John Trickett, all in my part of the world, Reeves, Yvette Cooper, Cameron, are all toast
6:55
They're all toast because I can see no recovery from where we are now, going forward between now and the next general elections
