Up next in 10
Vanessa Feltz hears from LBC callers and commentators as Wes Streeting makes it official: He's running. 16:20 Suzy Stride, former Labour Party policy adviser, gives her reaction having attended Wes Streeting's speech. 25:07 John Rentoul, Chief Political Commentator at The Independent, has his say. 41:21 Millie Cooke, also of the Independent, gives her take. Mr Streeting announced on Saturday that he would launch his own bid to stand as Prime Minister, should a Labour leadership contest to replace Sir Keir be triggered. "We need a proper contest with the best candidates on the field, and I’ll be standing,” he told reporters at a conference in central London. Mr Streeting, who this week stood down as health secretary, also insisted he did have enough support among MPs to trigger a contest, but suggested his challenge would "lack legitimacy" without rival Andy Burnham being given a chance to return to Parliament. It comes after Mr Burnham claimed he is only focused on winning a seat in Parliament, rather than ousting Sir Keir Starmer as Prime Minister. The Greater Manchester Mayor is among a group of senior Labour figures seen to be jostling to replace Sir Keir, as well as former deputy prime minister Angela Rayner. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #ukpolitics #uk #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Are you going to step up and contest the Labour leadership
0:03
End the suspense now, please. John, we need a proper contest with the best candidates on the field
0:10
and I'll be standing. Wes Streeting says, yes, I am, yep. I want to be the Prime Minister
0:17
But first, I must say, I do feel sorry for Gerstama. You do
0:20
He managed to get the largest ever majority winning the election for Labour Party
0:29
I'm not a Labour Party member. Yes. But I think his weakness has been, it looks, you know
0:35
it's clear that just being decent guy, decent person, is just not good enough in politics
0:41
You have to be able to talk the talk. And he took his eye off. He got involved, sidetracked with so many other issues
0:47
rather than national issues. Right. You know, which... And what do you feel he should have focused on
0:54
That's question one. But question two, which I'm flinging at you in the light of the breaking news
0:58
Do you think West Streeting is a more likely candidate to take home and domestic affairs more seriously
1:04
After all, you know, if you listen to his own attestment, he's been a magnificent health secretary
1:09
He's short and waiting times, etc. Well, he has that presence, I have to say
1:15
He has that presence. And hopefully, I'm waiting to hear from Edge, your favourite, your darling, Ed, Ed, Rayner
1:27
Rainer. Yes. I hope he will announce. But one thing is for sure. Yes
1:32
Andy Burnham definitely is not a prime minister material. Why not? He's the one
1:37
He's the one who voted for Iraq war. Thousands of hundreds of thousands of people were killed for no reason
1:44
He as a health secretary, he he helped to energize for privatization to a degree
1:53
And now he will open the gate, you know, for private medical firms to take
2:00
Very interesting you say that because so many people feel very favorably that he's a man of the people, that he's properly left wing, that he's got individuals who are struggling
2:11
He has them at his heart, that he's practical. I keep hearing how he involves so many people in the mayoralty in Manchester
2:20
He's very inclusive. You know, he's kind of a totally different operator
2:26
And people seem enthused by that. Yes. The thing is, that's local
2:30
That's city government, local government. At national level, you have to deal right across the spectrum of all different sectors and everything
2:40
It's not the same. And he's not up to be able to do that talk
2:47
All right. Good to hear from you as ever. Thank you very much for calling
2:51
All right, let's talk to Matt. Matt's in Tameside. Hello, Matt. Hi, good afternoon, Vanessa
2:57
Good afternoon. I'm not a Labour voter and I never will be
3:02
I used to think West Street team was reasonably okay until I've just watched that speech
3:09
Because he will have felt that this speech was the absolute apotheosis of his life and career
3:14
You realise that. He will have put everything he has into that speech. So why didn't you like it
3:19
What was wrong with it for you? What you just said is a testament to the absolute lack of talent in the Labour Party
3:27
Oh, God. The robotic, identikit, droning, woke, progressive bingo speeches where they churn out the same drivel repeatedly
3:39
Do you think it's ChatGPT? Seriously, do you? I mean, I think ChatGPT, it just looked like Keir Starmer when he was 30
3:48
It just looked like it's his son almost. Well, physically he does resemble him
3:53
That's kind of not his fault, though, but he definitely does. I know exactly what you mean. They could be the same family
3:57
They could be father and son. That's not ridiculous at all. That's quite fair, I think
4:02
Yeah, and it's just not going to work, Vanessa. Nobody's falling for this anymore
4:07
President Trump's been around for a decade now. We've got a new language where people are sort of aggressive, passionate
4:14
sort of derisory, sometimes amicable. you know this is this drivel this sort of a world drivel is not going to work anymore people want
4:25
actual real people with real language and that might go down well in parts of london where they'll
4:32
all be paid to applaud him yes but in the rest of the country they'll just think he's a drip
4:37
like keir starman on the other hand if you go into the personal thing and do my father was a
4:41
tool maker nobody can stand that either that always seems very saccharine and sentimental
4:45
and really infuriating and nobody likes the very personal either. I mean, we all know that Wes Streeting's a young fellow
4:52
but he's survived cancer. We know that, don't we? And we've heard about that a bit
4:56
If he'd really brought that in, people would have said it was mawkish and it was, you know, it was unforgivable
5:01
because it was trying to pull on the heartstrings. They wouldn't have liked that. So maybe he feels he's got to kind of give the less personal
5:08
the more kind of in inverted commas statesman-like speech. Which basically means boring, doesn't it
5:14
Why not just settle for doing what people want? And why don't the parties realise that the people they're putting forward are appalling
5:24
They may have been good for a decade. People may have fallen for it
5:29
People may have accepted it. But it's not going to wash anymore, Vanessa. It's over for, you know, Labour are done
5:36
And so are you looking to reform? I'll vote for anybody that basically gets..
5:42
Labour won't win an election in my lifetime. and I'm 52, we won't see them ever again, I don't think
5:49
Right. And I'll vote for anything apart from the three main parties
5:53
for the rest of my life. Gosh, well, don't say that now
5:57
How old are you? You could live for years and years. 52. Anything could happen
6:00
Don't make any declarations of that ilk because anything could happen in politics. As we can see, it's all sparking all over the place
6:06
Thank you very much indeed. Always a pleasure, Matt. Let's talk to Linda in Perth about this
6:10
Linda, so there is West Streeting finally saying, yes, I'll run. I'll run for PM
6:15
How do you feel? Yes. Well, I'm delighted, to be honest, that there is going to be a leadership contest
6:22
I was one of these people who was really, I thought I was really impressed by Samer in the beginning
6:28
But as soon as he started, you know, when he became PM
6:33
I've really just gone completely against him, the way the country's gone
6:39
And one of the things that I just am so pleased to hear
6:43
from West Streeting is that he's talking at last about us rejoining
6:49
Europe because I mean I've got a degree in economics and so I
6:57
look at, I'm always studying economic situations and that and I mean if you look at the economic
7:03
sites you know like the National Economic, the National Institute for Economic Research and
7:09
you know budget responsibility etc you know the NEI According to them, we are losing about 100 billion a year through Brexit
7:21
And people just don't realise that. You know there not enough emphasis on that And I just delighted that somebody I mean you actually spoke about the issues of Brexit about 10 minutes ago I think it was somebody called Nigel or something
7:35
Yes, Nigel. I know there weren't necessarily you saying that, but you were
7:38
obviously, I think you were sort of playing devil's advocate and said but don't you think this and that. Well I was
7:42
saying is it not acceptable perhaps to say, I'm not really being devil's advocate
7:47
I'm not trying to do anything that unsubtle I'm just asking actually genuinely
7:50
otherwise I can't see any point broadcasting if I just pretend to say something that I don't really think
7:54
I just wonder if, because I remember broadcasting on the BBC every single morning without fail right through the lead up to Brexit and beyond
8:03
And it was quite clear that everyone was talking in hypotheses. Nobody knew what was going to happen, what was going to be involved
8:10
Lawyers were pontificating, professors, historians and God knows what always saying what they thought was going to happen
8:15
But nobody knew. They really didn't. And I just wonder whether now we can see much more clearly the effect
8:21
is it fair to say we didn't really understand what we were voting for necessarily we didn't
8:28
really understand what the complexities were going to be what the what the barriers were going to be
8:32
you know what the what the what the net effect was going to be of what it was we thought we were
8:36
deciding but now we do it's legitimate to think again and i'm not saying that as devil's advocate
8:41
i'm saying that because is it legitimate to think again when the grounds have shifted which they have
8:45
when we when we know more than we did before do you think that's not true yeah absolutely i mean
8:51
Personally, I was an accountant until I retired, although I've got my background in economics
8:57
I was an accountant, and I mean, one of the things we did, obviously we had projects going all the time
9:02
and after a project was complete, you would yse the results, and if it wasn't working, the first thing a company would do
9:10
would say, no, we've got to drop it, we've got to change. And I think that's the problem
9:14
It's like, we voted for this in 2016, and people weren't too sure what was going to happen
9:21
now we know that it's costing us dearly every year and the country's just not in a good position
9:28
Isn't it time for another referendum? Because I think a lot of people who said yes before will say no
9:35
because they'll realise that, or yes to Brexit, that I think a lot of people that I've spoken to
9:41
even ones who voted for Brexit, are saying, yeah, it's not worked
9:45
you know. So that's one of the reasons why, you know, I'm really pleased to hear Wes
9:51
Streeting talking in these terms. I thought his speech was really good. Good afternoon, Vanessa. I'm extremely disappointed with the announcement from Wes Streeting
9:59
Why is that? Insofar as in his portfolio as health minister, he was doing which in my estimation was an
10:06
excellent job of addressing the resident doctor's dispute. Well, he certainly himself says he was doing a marvellous job. I mean, in his resignation
10:14
letter he spends the first three paragraphs bigging up his amazing achievement in shortening
10:19
waiting lists and all the other stuff that we wanted him to do so he would agree with you that he's done a fabulous job so you're disappointed that he's walked away from it Vanessa it was
10:27
unfinished work yeah true it's not complete very true so why has he walked away from that I know
10:33
why it is yeah it's complete self-absorption with an eye on the greater chance it's self-aggrandizement
10:40
Vanessa. It's unforgivable. I was a big supporter of West Streeting in his previous portfolio. I am
10:46
extremely disappointed that he's chosen to do that. Who will be the losers? The NHS services
10:51
and the patients that they serve. On the other hand, I mean, politics is politics, isn't it? If
10:58
you see the opportunity to lead the party, to become prime minister, particularly when the
11:03
opportunity you might feel has been handed to you by this abysmal, disastrous performance in
11:08
the local elections. It's not, you know, West Streeting's fault that this was the conclusion
11:12
but it was. So if you really believe passionately in Labour ideology, and you really believe that
11:17
the party is the right party to lead the country, maybe you would be doing the whole country a
11:21
disservice if you didn't throw your hat in the ring. Maybe you could look at it the other way around, that it's not personal self-aggrandizement. It's a more altruistic kind of sacrifice for the
11:31
good of all of us, for you and for me. That's an interesting argument, Vanessa. But what it's
11:36
even more about is about the individual how he has shown true disregard for what he was actually
11:42
doing in his previous portfolio and chosen to step aside into the fast lane into something better for
11:49
him it's it's a terrible indictment on him and the labor party frankly i'm absolutely certain that he
11:56
would say that he feels that if he were to become prime minister he would be able to keep a close
12:02
eye on the health service and make absolutely sure that whoever he appointed as health secretary
12:06
would be somebody in his own image, but that he needs to take on the additional burden
12:10
of running the entire country and it was the only right thing he could possibly do
12:14
He felt a calling to do it. He won't say, I just thought I could get more powerful, I could get more famous, I could get in the history book
12:21
so I just thought I fancied doing it. He will not say that or even think that, will he
12:25
An interesting counter-argument, Vanessa. However, the champagne courts will be popping in the BMA Resident Doctors Committee meeting rooms
12:33
at this stage because they will say, We've got rid of him. Bring on the next one and let's see how they do
12:39
I mean, some people feel sorry for the junior hospital doctors and feel that, you know, they only strike because they're driven to it
12:44
So I suppose some people think if doctors, junior doctors could afford champagne
12:48
let them drink it, maybe. They think of all the times in the middle of the night when they've been hauled off a stretcher
12:53
and they've been saved by junior hospital doctors who are absolutely exhausted
12:58
I don't have a difficulty with that. They are an invaluable asset to the NHS
13:02
That's the thing. However, let's enter into that distinct negotiations and reach a settlement between the two parties
13:11
I just need to know what you're doing in Mallorca. I bet you live there and have a wonderful time. I'm well, Jill
13:15
Oh, Vanessa, if only. No, I had some unfinished business here, and I'm just out here for a few days
13:22
and then I'll be back to England on Tuesday. Just tell us about the weather and how lovely the whole thing is
13:27
You don't want to hear that, do you, Mary? No, no, no, no. I don't. Don't tell me
13:32
Don't tell me. Robert, pleasure. Thank you. Thank you very much. Let's talk to... Should we go to Brian first and then talk to Susie
13:38
Yes, we'll talk to Brian. Brian's in Aldershot, first-time caller. Glad you've called, Brian
13:43
Was it West Streeting's announcement that prompted you to call? Hi, Vanessa. Good afternoon. Hi
13:48
Hi, yeah. I think he's making a mistake. I think he's a bit too fresh to be jumping in to run for Prime Minister
13:57
I don't think he'll have the backing of the people. By fresh, do you mean young? He's 43
14:02
Well, I don't mean that. I just mean, you know, Labour's just after getting in, you know, less than two years ago
14:09
I just don't think he has the experience. Apart from that, I do agree with..
14:13
But you just heard my caller say, you know, he's going to be a terrible loss to the NHS
14:16
because he's been such a fantastic health secretary. Yeah, I kind of agree with that, to be fair
14:21
I think, yeah, he has done a good job with the NHS
14:25
Well, he's starting to do a good job at the NHS. It's going to take time. and I think people, I don't think people really appreciate
14:31
the scale of the trouble the country is in as well. What don't you think we appreciate that you do appreciate
14:38
Tell us and then we'll all be able to appreciate it. What is it
14:42
I think it is, mainly it's the fact that the trouble that we've had
14:47
when the Conservatives were in power and the state that they left the country in
14:51
I just think people have no patience anymore. No patience Well that might be just because everybody been run ragged and worn to a frazzle by 14 years of conservative rule which left people feeling patience has run out it expired it worn thin
15:06
And then there was, I think anyway, and certainly I was already here at LBC when it happened
15:11
a sense of at least some sense of hope that Keir Starmer would somehow execute quite dramatic, quite instant change
15:19
which would make people feel as if they were living in a better place with more hope, with a different regime
15:24
And what seemed to happen instead was a steady kind of decline of all hope and a kind of despair and despondency
15:31
which seemed to take hold pretty sharpish with the old winter fuel allowance
15:34
with the suits and the shoes and the sunglasses, you know, that had been donated by Lord Ali
15:40
That absolutely alienated people instantly. And then it seemed to follow one crisis after another, really, didn't it
15:47
It did, yeah. And, you know, these things, they seem to always, you know
15:53
come about when somebody gets in power and then people don't really take to them
15:58
It seems like the media just attacks them all the time. I don't know, but the way it seems with Farage
16:05
I know he's getting investigated, but he seems to have the people on his side
16:10
or that's the way it appears anyway, which I think is a massive worry for the country
16:16
if he does get into power. All right, Brian, thank you very much indeed for calling. Right, let's welcome our guest
16:20
Susie Stride, former Labour Party policy advisor. She's been at the Progress Conference
16:26
where West Streeting has just made this speech and I'm very interested indeed
16:30
to hear not only her response but the response of everybody else in the room and beyond. Susie Stride
16:36
welcome to the programme. Tell me how you felt as he was speaking and I was most
16:40
fascinated by the fact that he didn't announce that he was going to stand against
16:44
Starma in the speech at all and in fact waited to be asked the question by some fellow
16:48
from Sky what was all that about? Do you know what I don't know I feel such mixed feelings right now
16:55
because I'm a big fan of Wes and I think you know he's a great leader and I think he could make a
17:01
great future leader and under any other circumstances you know I love and agree with 90% of what he's
17:09
saying but I don't agree with and I think there are people in the hall who also don't and like
17:16
this idea of you know we can remove our prime minister in this way like here starmer is the
17:21
democratically elected prime minister of this country um and the fact that yes people are upset
17:28
about the local um election results i'm upset i didn't win my seat that i thought very hard
17:33
you know to win but that doesn't mean that suddenly you know i start getting a mob together
17:39
to to get to get rid of our prime minister and i think that room is split i think there is
17:45
tension in that room it's yeah and you know someone else made the ogy it's a bit like
17:50
you know spurs just because spurs don't win a few games they change their manager that's not a good
17:56
way of doing football that's exactly what they do isn't it my son-in-law is a football professional
18:01
football translator and passionate arsenal supporter and isn't that pretty much what does
18:06
happen in fact exactly what happens in football yeah but it doesn't work and it's not good do
18:11
know what I mean and like also like for me you know there are some key things that are really
18:15
important when it comes to leadership like and by the way this is not me saying anything
18:18
particular about any particular person but leadership should be about serving and it
18:24
shouldn't be about selfish ambition and it also I believe needs to be a level of loyalty now
18:29
I do believe we are going to need change at one point and I just don't think it is right now and
18:35
I also think there is a right way of going about things like we are you know Great Britain we are
18:40
this you know we're not like this you know i don't know undeveloped country that like you know
18:46
someone suddenly says i don't want this person and gets people together like he was elected by
18:51
the british public yes in the locals people he's the most unpopular prime minister in living memory
18:58
he's his his popularity uh factor is absolutely through the floor it's so poor he's really he's
19:05
not he's not able is he to generate any kind of feeling of confidence or feeling of optimism and
19:11
that feel good factor any economist will tell you is absolutely essential because you've got to feel
19:16
good about stuff to think about booking a holiday to think about buying a car to think about buying
19:21
a hat you've got to feel that there is a future and you will be able to make the books balance at
19:25
the end of the month and and doesn't we're streeting absolutely nail it when he says there
19:30
are people who are working ferociously they really work hard there are two workers per family and
19:35
they still can't make things balanced by the end of the month. And it's the thing, look, all of that assessment may well be right
19:42
and could be right, etc. But for me, the fact that we think that it would be okay
19:50
to remove a prime minister in this way is wrong. What do you mean by in this way
19:57
It's a leadership challenge. That's the kosher way. It's the only way of doing it. What's wrong with it
20:01
but number one number one he's only been in he's only been prime minister for two years
20:06
i don't think doesn't feel like 20. no but and this is the funny thing Vanessa look what's
20:12
hilarious is it's not like i think Keir Starmer's amazing and it's and look i'm i've just i've just
20:16
lost a seat so i genuinely don't have an agenda here i just genuinely think that this is not the
20:21
right way to do it and i genuinely think that lots of people that don't care anything about politics
20:25
i was chatting to a mum this morning who doesn't care anything about politics and she was just like
20:29
like you know feels genuinely uncomfortable about this like like you know it couldn't even go another
20:37
way where people are like actually you know i don't like what they're doing to care i'm going
20:41
to start being loyal to care this is what i would say yes susie no one can say you're not passionate
20:46
about this no one you're certainly are you've thrown your absolute heart and soul into this
20:49
conversation which i hugely appreciate you sound very natural very real very sincere and very upset
20:56
and it's a pleasure talking to you, it always is. What do we think of Wes Streeting? What do we think of what he's done and what's going to happen
21:01
Well, I used to be in Wes's constituency before the last gerrymander
21:06
So I'm now in Kevin Bailey's constituency. However, I did interact with Wes and he was very good
21:12
And I thought, you know, I do not, I am an independent. I do not like any of the major parties. Yeah
21:20
But I thought from Labour's perspective, I thought he was a very good candidate for a future leader
21:29
However... Just hang on a minute. When you say you thought he was good, just give us a couple of brief examples of what was good about him
21:35
What did you like about what he was doing? What impressed you? I mean, at the time, I was talking about IR35 Chapter 10
21:43
Yes. And that was when he was a minister somewhere or shadow minister in the Treasury
21:50
so this was all around this was all around that so he actually gave quite good feedback
22:00
it may not have been him it may have been his office or whatever else
22:04
but those are the only interactions I had but I thought not just that but everything else
22:11
I thought he had the right kind of mentality and everything else to be a very good future leader
22:17
okay so how are you feeling this afternoon then? well when he announced
22:23
that he may actually resign I thought oh my god it UK PLC politicians are politicians but you are there for the sake of the nation
22:37
You are not there for yourself. So you agree with my earlier caller who was so disappointed in West Streeting
22:45
saying, you know, he was doing a sterling job at the NHS
22:49
and that this is a selfish, entirely selfish and self-interested move. Did you hear that call
22:54
He was really, really disappointed. Yes, I think that was Susie, was it
22:58
No, no, a gentleman. It was a gentleman called... But do you feel the same
23:02
Do you think that's what this is? I do. And even though I do not like Starmer
23:10
I mean, theoretically, I like Starmer because he's better than the Tories
23:13
or the Tories of the last 15 years. Starmer hasn't done himself any justice
23:19
in terms of growth for business or anything else. I have my own business
23:26
But I thought Wes will be very good in the future to be able to take the party forward
23:35
But by resigning and putting the markets, every business up into jeopardy
23:44
I just think it's totally the wrong thing to do. Totally the wrong thing to do
23:49
Okay. And so what do you see unfurling in the next few weeks, stroke months
23:54
We've got to wait for the Andy Burnham for our go first, obviously. We're in the Andy Burnham thing
24:01
It's a totally different thing. I mean, he's failed twice before. I mean, what we're doing, we're trying to dredge the bottom of the barrel
24:10
to find who's the least worst of the people that have failed before
24:15
I really don't know. I actually am covering my eyes as to
24:23
what is actually going to happen in the next few months because the markets aren't going to like it
24:29
and yes I know people are saying I know Adderburn has said we're not beholden
24:35
to the markets. I think okay well sorry mate but you are everything is
24:41
everyone is you can't you can't avoid that. It is always going to be the case
24:52
And if you think that you are above that, then the markets are really not going to like it
24:59
We're going to be the List Trust Lettuce scenario again. Oh dear. All right, Robin, thanks so much
25:05
Good to hear from you. Let's go straight to John Rintoul, chief political commentator at The Independent
25:10
And we'd like to know, John, the mechanics really of what's going on because it was so it seemed so absolutely strange that
25:18
that that west street gave this lengthy and somewhat leaden in my opinion at any rate you
25:23
may want to contradict his speech where he didn't refer to throwing his hat in the ring at all and
25:27
had to be asked by some gentleman from sky what was all that about no no i agree with you well it
25:32
wasn't it wasn't his best speech i mean he's you know his communication skills are supposed to be
25:37
his big strong point. But no, he's not ready to fight a leadership election yet. I mean, if
25:43
he went for it now, which he could do, but it would involve a lot of his supporters having to
25:50
resign from the government because they're ministers, he could trigger a leadership election
25:54
campaign. But it would be against Angela Rayner or Ed Miliband or Keir Starmer. And he would
26:00
I mean, the polling of Labour members suggests he would lose to all of those
26:05
So what he wants is to wait to see if Andy Burnham wins this by-election
26:11
which is by no means certain. I mean, that's a really tough by-election to win
26:15
So if Andy Burnham loses that, then I think West Street is in a much stronger position in a couple of months' time
26:24
Gosh. So to question, why has that particular seat been elected as the one for Andy Burnham to stand in, Makersfield
26:34
which you say is going to be so very difficult for him to win because the reform challenge is going to be absolutely thundering, isn't it
26:41
Nigel Farage has promised everybody that. Were they not able to persuade anyone but Josh Simons to step down
26:47
They weren't. I mean, Andy Burnham has been desperately trying to persuade MPs to stand down
26:55
And that's the only one that's come free. So he's got to make a virtue of it
27:00
He's got to make a virtue of the fact that it's a two-thirds leave seat
27:05
And he's going to be running as someone who has recently said, just as Wes Streetinger said today, that we should rejoin the EU
27:12
So if he can win that seat, having said that we should rejoin the EU, and I don't know what line he's going to take on that in the by-election campaign
27:20
then that would be an absolutely remarkable achievement and it would qualify him to become prime minister instantly, I would have thought
27:27
and and do you think he has the i don't even know what the word is i'm not going to say cojones but
27:32
the smarts the the the the the likability factor the affability factor the the the gravitas depending
27:40
on what the hell people want these days from a politician but whatever that that usp is has he
27:44
actually got it is there a possibility that he will absolutely smash reform and he will win and
27:48
then he will be prime minister or is this all very much pie in the sky well i i'm very skeptical
27:54
about it, I must say. I mean, I think he is affable and likable. But I don't think he
28:00
I mean, I haven't thought until now that he would make a good prime minister. I mean
28:06
he was a perfectly competent minister, but nothing special. So, do you feel as if some kind of legend has sprung up around Burnham that isn't necessarily
28:18
justified by his past performance or present performance? In which case, who fabricates
28:23
I'm getting a bit fed up with callers ringing in and saying, oh, it's those billionaires and it's the right wing capitalist press
28:31
But who is it really? They're not busy weaving stories of folklore around Andy Burnham, are they
28:36
So who the hell is it then? I think Andy Burnham, he made a very good choice in going for the mayor of Greater Manchester
28:43
It was a good job for him. Happened actually to coincide with an economic miracle in Manchester
28:49
I mean, all those shiny skyscrapers that have gone up have gone up in his time, which I think is more or less a coincidence
28:57
But he has actually done this thing with the buses, which everybody in Manchester really likes, the yellow buses
29:04
It's all integrated. It's quite cheap. It seems to work quite well. I mean, so it's quite small scale. It's quite real
29:11
And he's not a Westminster politician. And he stood up for his city in the pandemic when he felt that the restrictions were unfair
29:22
And he's got this image as a regular guy. So he's got quite a lot going for him
29:26
But as soon as he comes back into Westminster, I think he becomes just another Westminster politician and all the shine will come off him
29:32
Tell me about Angela Rayner, who's a bit sturm at the moment. Well, apart from the bit where she said HMRC have said I did nothing wrong at all and I've got a clean bill of tax and stamp duty health and I'm ready to live happily ever after
29:46
But what about since then she's been a dom? Well, I think she's playing quite a canny game, isn't she
29:52
I mean, I think she's not being like these ambitious, thrusting young men who are pushing themselves forward
30:00
and she's being all inclusive, saying, you know, Andy Burnham should be allowed to run and all the rest of it
30:07
which I think reflects to her credit with the party members and I think gives her a good platform to run for
30:16
I mean, there are these persistent suggestions that she doesn't really want the top job. Yeah
30:20
I think she's quite well placed to run for it, except that she's extremely unpopular with the general public
30:27
and I think that's her real... But the general public doesn't get to vote on this
30:31
We don't get a say in this, do we? No, but Labour Party members do look at opinion polls
30:35
and they want to choose someone who can beat Nigel Farage. And if she is really unpopular with the wider electorate
30:45
I think that will be a factor. So I know you're not mystic John Rental of the Independent
30:50
I know that's not fair to say that you have your crystal ball and that I should cross your palm with several pieces of silver
30:56
I know that's not fair. However, you are in the hot seat right now. So I'm going to say to you, you look into the future, you read the tea leaves
31:03
What do you think is going to happen in the next few? And I don't know whether it's weeks or months
31:07
How long is it all going to take to happen? But what do you think is on the cards for all of us
31:12
Well, I mean, it is kind of my job to make predictions. And quite often they're wrong
31:20
But I mean, I sometimes get them right. You never know. No. I think Andy Burnham's not going to win this by-election
31:28
but I do know people in the North whose views I respect
31:33
who think that he will win it, in which case I think that's game over
31:37
I think he becomes prime minister on the basis of that because that would be a very strong message to the party
31:42
that he can beat reform in its strongest base. But if he loses, then I think we're in a terrible ��
31:50
I mean, I think the Labour government's in a terrible situation. And by extension, I think the country's in a terrible position
31:56
because I think Keir Starmer will be very weak. Andy Burnham will have to go back to being mayor of Manchester
32:01
knowing that everybody in Manchester knows that he doesn't really want to be there
32:07
And I suspect Wes Streeting might become prime minister, which, you know, I mean, I'm normally a supporter of his
32:13
but I think he will be inheriting a smoking ruin. One of my callers just said he's a bit too fresh
32:19
And I said, do you mean young? What do you mean by fresh? I wasn't sure what he meant. And I think he might have meant young or just inexperienced or just not good
32:26
I don't know what he meant, really. But is he a bit too fresh to be Prime Minister? And then somebody else said, and I thought this was spot on
32:34
he really looks so Keirish, especially during this really, really kind of stolid, wretched speech he just made
32:42
that he could be Keir's son. I mean, he just looks like a chip off the old Keir block, doesn't he, in a way
32:47
I think he's I think he's pretty different from Keir I think he's I think he is normally a very
32:54
good communicator he's he's great in interviews I mean maybe he's not he's not good at the
32:59
the speeches I think he would be a great performer in the in the House of Commons I think he'd be a
33:04
great performer on the stump and I've you know I've always liked him because I'm a Blairite and
33:10
I think his instincts are are tend in that direction and I think that's that's the most
33:16
important thing. I mean, I just don't think that the way for Labour is to go down the road of
33:21
higher spending and higher taxes. Was he crazy to say he wants to go back in the EU and Brexit
33:26
was a terrible mistake? Is that really, you know, giving an enormous chunk of the country an immediate
33:30
slap, slap, bang in the eye? Was that clever? I didn't like that at all. Well, that was a terrible
33:35
error, I thought. I can see that, you know, he's appealing to Labour Party members who are all mad
33:39
for it. But I thought... Big fat mistake, I think. Big fat mistake. Well, I thought you did it in the
33:44
wrong way to call it a catastrophic mistake is telling millions and millions of people who voted
33:50
to leave. Yeah, that they didn't get it. They got it wrong. Yeah, that he gets it and they don't. No
33:54
one likes hearing that. No one. No, I thought that was absolutely foolish. I mean, if he wants to
33:58
make a case for a closer cooperation with Europe, I think that's fine. People will go along with that
34:02
But you don't insult people who voted leave. Okay, so you need to, can't he just employ you
34:07
as his coach? Because he's really getting this all wrong. He hasn't even done the thing yet. Let's talk to David in Hackney
34:11
David, I wonder whether you agree with John Rental's assessment of what's going on
34:15
Do you think West Street is just biding his time to see if Andy Burnham gets in in Makersfield or not
34:21
Yeah, probably. I mean, I don't know what he's thinking regarding Andy Burnham
34:26
but I definitely think it's a breath of fresh air that he's got the cojones, as you call them
34:33
God, don't repeat that. I thought I just slid that through with no one noticing I said that I thought because it was a foreign language no one would know what I was talking about Wouldn say the brutal English Anglo would I God you outed me Oh no Oh damn Oh God
34:49
OK, move swiftly on. Let's create a diversion and pretend no one heard that. But he has those things enough to say let's get back into Europe
34:57
because, let's face it, Brexit has been a disaster, as it was predicted it would be
35:02
And if we want to grow our economy, we need to get closer to Europe
35:07
if not even joined further down the line. But John Rental says, and I must say I do agree with him
35:12
that whatever you think about Brexit, and you may well think it's a disaster and a complete catastrophe
35:17
and also that it was wrongly billed. It's not my thinking, it's facts. Well, quite. Well, you may think that
35:23
You may well think that you can prove that. But even if you do, that it was a really terrible thing to say in that speech
35:28
because it gives enormous slap in the face to the people who voted in favour of it, doesn't it
35:32
It makes them feel they're getting a good telling off straight away. No, I'm sorry, people
35:37
If you want Starmer out, he was democratically elected to do five years
35:41
That's his full term. So you can't complain about this. Want Starmer out and then complain about
35:45
having a second referendum. That doesn't work, does it? It's funny that Streeting didn't really talk
35:51
about a referendum, did he? Talked about just going back in. Well, I mean, presumably
35:56
you would have to have a referendum, wouldn't you? He sounded like he was just going to send a nice card
36:00
to the president of the EU saying, actually, can we come back? And they say, yeah, it'll be over
36:05
Yeah, well, that's my second, that's my biggest fear, is even if we decided to go back in, they wouldn't let us back in
36:11
I mean, I'm not sure if I was them, I'd want us back in. What do you mean by that
36:16
Especially with the threat of the likes of Farage leading over us all, you know
36:20
Yeah. I don't know. I think we'd be, as we always are, a glowing asset to all occasions and all companies
36:25
But do you think that West Streeting has a chance of becoming Prime Minister
36:29
and would you like it if he did? well I mean yes I would I would like it yeah why would you like him I think because I think he's a
36:39
good communicator and I think he's center left rather than too far left I think Burnham's further
36:45
left I don't really know Burnham that well but that's my understanding he's too far left
36:50
and therefore he won't win an election but streeting is further to the center right yeah so
36:58
So he stands a better chance. And I want the best chance to keep Farage out
37:04
That's what I want. And what about Starmer? Do you feel as if he's just kind of, you know
37:10
his expiry date kind of thing? Starmer, I feel really bad for him
37:14
because he's actually done a really good job. The economy is doing okay. Immigration's gone down
37:21
Immigration that went up because of Brexit and Farage and all the rest of them
37:25
that's going down. is actually we're doing not too bad. And he's just got a bad rap
37:32
He's just not very popular. But if we're not doing badly, why does everyone feel, and I know I'm not speaking for the entire world
37:37
but, you know, I'm generally picking up a vibe when you do this job sitting in this chair and people call
37:41
you get a feeling about this stuff. Why do people feel so despondent
37:45
and so, in many cases, so very much alone and so kind of misunderstood
37:51
Because we're only just doing okay given the circumstances. And the circumstances are Brexit
37:58
And you're not thinking about the war? What about the war in Iran? That's not helping
38:02
Of course, but that wasn't our control, was it? Brexit was our own decision
38:06
and we can reverse that. We can't stop the wars but we can reverse Brexit and we can
38:10
get closer to Europe. And you don't feel as if you're obsessed with this Brexit
38:14
issue. You don't feel that you're a one issue man and you're going to
38:18
keep thumping this home and that's your big thing. Well, it's the elephant in the room, isn't it
38:22
Of course it's a one issue. How can Brexit be an elephant? I don't think Brexit
38:26
We've had an elephant in any room. We've had old West Street in going straight for it
38:30
It cost us 68% GDP. It cost us billions, not just one year
38:36
every single year for the foreseeable. It's insanity. It's absolute insanity. You remember when they were selling it to us
38:43
they were telling us how much money it was going to save us on a weekly basis
38:46
Remember that for the NHS? What a load of old rubbish that was
38:50
But it's not people's fault if they believed it, though, is it? No, I'm not saying it's people's fault
38:55
But now we know both sides. We know what life was like in the European Union
38:59
Now we know what it's like outside the European Union. And we're doing really badly
39:03
So let's go back in. That's right. I wonder whether you're going to take our jolly LBC listeners along with you
39:09
or whether you're a lone wolf standing on a mountain peak howling at the moon
39:15
Just you and Wes streeting, nobody else. I wonder. The amount of times I swearing at the radio Don do that That very rude to do not swear at the radio Always say please and thank you to Alexa Thank you very much for the call Lovely to hear you Let talk to who have we got next
39:32
James in the Wirral? Hi. Hi, James. Hi. What do you reckon
39:37
Well, it was more in relation to the comments that you've been making, and I've heard them all the last few days
39:42
Oh, yeah. In relation to the markets. Oh, yeah, yeah. So if all we ever have to do is follow the markets
39:49
then why do we bother having going through the fuss and expense of elections why don't we just
39:53
ask people who've got x amount of money invested in guilts who do they want yeah why don't we that's
39:59
good question maybe we should you sound as if you think that's unthinkable but why is it
40:04
um well because that that that is by definition not the majority of the people is it no of course
40:09
i don't know about you i don't i don't i don't have any money in guilts nope i feel guilty as
40:13
hell but i don't have any money in guilts definitely not so so what do you what do you think about west streeting saying yes i will launch a leadership challenge i'll be in um
40:21
mcgfield tomorrow campaigning for andy burnham uh-huh so that that's that's that's my thoughts
40:28
you're literally going there to campaign already yeah i'll be i'll be there tomorrow yeah so
40:33
seriously who are you what will you do bring and bring on doorbells and talk about it oh yeah i'm
40:38
a labour party member i see and what will you say what will you say about andy burnham i i think
40:44
he'll give us a reset that we need. And did you hear John Rental of the Independent say he
40:47
feels that there's been a sort of mythology built up around Andy Burnham, but
40:51
actually he's a fairly average politician, there's nothing very special about him at all, did you hear that
40:56
I did, but what I thought was most interesting about John Rental was that he was
40:59
saying that Wes is his man and then he just said nothing but not him really
41:04
Also true, also true. Well he kept saying, I like Wes Streeting
41:08
but I don't think he's got much chance, did he? Yeah, I like it, you know, well he's
41:11
yeah, I mean, well, ultimately Wes has to get the elected from Labour Party members
41:17
And I will, he's got a vanishingly small chance of that happening. What's your take
41:22
on what's going to happen next and how? I think it's genuinely
41:26
it's a bit of a cop out of an answer, but I think it's really, really hard to say because there are so many moving parts
41:30
I think Andy Burnham specifically, a lot of people have been pinning
41:34
their sort of great white hopes on Burnham for the last few months. And I think actually
41:39
to be honest, I'm surprised at how close he now is to coming back to Westminster with this make a field by-election
41:44
But I think that even now, so he's... They're not going to block his candidacy
41:48
Labour's ruling at NEC has said, but even now he still needs to be selected as a candidate
41:52
and then crucially, he's very likely to be selected, but then he needs to win the by-election
41:56
And I think that's not a given. So I think there are huge amounts of moving parts
42:00
and if it is Burnham versus Streeting, he'll probably win. But whether it will be is sort of another question
42:04
Could it be that Streeting's biding his time because he needs to see if Burnham wins or not
42:08
Because if he were to pre-empt Burnham winning, the vast shadow of Burnham would be, you know
42:15
hanging over his entire career and he'd never be able to shrug it off. Is that possibly what's going on
42:20
I think at the moment, Streeting knows that if he were to do anything other than call for Burnham to come back
42:25
he looks self-serving. So Streeting's already, because of all his manoeuvring and all the briefing
42:29
he's already sort of fielding these accusations of being in it for himself and not looking after the Labour Party as a whole
42:34
So if he were to do anything apart from, say, we need Burnham back, he wouldn't be able to escape the shadow
42:40
of being a sort of self-serving politician. But I think he's still going to battle Burnham
42:45
Even if Burnham comes back, I think Streeting's made it very clear that he will stand against him
42:49
I'm not sure whether he'd win, though. It's interesting because several of my callers
42:53
have expressed great disappointment with Burnham, feeling that he was making sizable changes at the NHS
43:01
that were beginning to register and people were beginning to feel the benefit
43:05
Now he's scarpered and people feel that it shows lack of loyalty to the party
43:10
lack of loyalty to the patience and a kind of self-serving nature that people don't warm to
43:16
Yeah, and I think especially because Streeting, he didn't hide his ambitions. We've seen his sort of
43:21
his clear ambitions to be Prime Minister for such a long time and he hasn't been, he's been quite
43:24
opaque about it to be honest. And I think that now it is really hard in politics because it's that
43:29
line of he was trying to wait for the perfect moment where resigning would have been a criticism
43:35
of the party and he would have said look we can't go on like this. But I think because he's been
43:39
been maneuvering for so long there was kind of no way of him doing it without looking self-serving
43:43
i mean we all remember the days of boris johnson saying emphatically had no wish at all to be
43:49
prime minister do you remember that even though rachel my colleague on this station and great
43:53
friend had outed him shamelessly from the very first moment by saying when he was a little boy
43:57
he said he wanted to be god king so we had a pretty pretty uh staunch idea that he did want
44:02
to be prime minister but you remember he always used the phrase if i am called like cincinnatus from my plough Do you remember him saying that So he really did perfect the who me Prime Minister Oh no surely not No I have no interest in that whatsoever
44:15
And what you're saying, I think, is that it's a shame Streeting hasn't taken a leaf from Johnson in that way
44:21
at least pretending he doesn't want it, where he's done the opposite thing. He's been nakedly ambitious for years
44:26
And that doesn't play well in this country. We don't really like that much. In America, they love it
44:30
We don't like that, do we? Yeah, I mean, there's that quite damning clip of Streeting
44:34
where they were asking where you see yourself, I can't remember the time frame, but it was in a few years time. And all of these different cabinet ministers and backbenchers give different jobs
44:43
And Streeting just plainly says Prime Minister. And I think it's really interesting. And I think
44:47
that it's it is quite a British thing. And I think there's always the way that whoever sort of wields
44:51
the knife with the government is rarely the one to take over and be the next person who steps up
44:56
into the job. And I think that's exactly what we're seeing with Streeting. I wouldn't rule it out because he is a good political operator. And I think that's why he's always done quite well in
45:02
politics but i think that someone like burnham people seem to warm to a lot more one of the
45:08
the things echoing across the airwaves even as i speak is this strange eerie silence where we're
45:15
imagining that we're about to hear and can't quite believe we haven't already heard from angela rayner
45:20
and her silence you know you know melton milton talking about a deafening silence and that's what
45:26
we seem to be hearing this deafening silence from rayner so is she doing something incredibly
45:30
politically astute what is she doing i think she's doing exactly what we've just discussed where she's
45:35
playing the long game with it i do actually believe with reina maybe it's because she's
45:39
very good at playing the game but i do believe with reina that she really believes in the labour party's mission but i think she's making the political clever choice which is just to wait
45:48
in the wings let everyone else tear each other apart let west streeting make his leadership bids
45:51
let everyone worry about burnham she's made it very clear that she backs burnham she's also not
45:56
ruled out standing against him or standing at all she's being really politically smart and that is
46:00
actually a lot of what rain has always done she's a very good political operator um and i think we're
46:05
likely to see i think it'll become much more clear what her next move is going to be after burnham
46:09
comes back or doesn't come back but i'd be surprised if she doesn't stand and appearing
46:14
from the shadows on this program this afternoon the ne'er before posited theory that andy burnham
46:21
isn't necessarily that much of a big deal, that he isn't an extraordinarily heroic figure
46:27
that actually his performance at Westminster was fair to middling nothing better
46:32
that he's doing a reasonable job as a regional mayor, but that he really doesn't have the stellar components
46:40
that he's said to have and that some kind of mythologising has gone on
46:44
and nobody's quite sure who did it or why or whether he'll live up to any of it
46:49
I think that is definitely a fear with Burnham I think that you politics is in such a dark point
46:54
at the moment Westminster politics specifically yeah where I think that people are so desperate
46:58
for someone to come in and fix all of the problems that someone untested outside of
47:03
Westminster obviously Burnham's been in cabinet before but he hasn't been tested for a while a lot of current voters aren't looking at him as someone who's mixed up in the sort of Starmer chaos he
47:11
seems like a much safer bet because he's not smeared or tarnished by the chaos of under the
47:15
Tories that we saw or under this Labour government. And I think it's very easy to pin someone like that
47:20
as a sort of great white hope and not actually look at sort of someone's tangible record. I do
47:24
think that governing Greater Manchester is a very different job to governing Westminster because
47:29
you're looking after your own sectional interests in Manchester. But as soon as you're in the Cabinet
47:33
you're dealing with a whole host of issues and you're juggling a lot. And I think at that point
47:37
cynically, it's when you start to let people down because you're managing interests. And that's, you're never going to be on everyone's side at that point. But I think that what this
47:44
government's doing is almost everyone feels like they aren't on their side they're not even winning
47:48
over a big enough proportion of the government of the country to feel like they're doing a good job
47:51
so as far as you're concerned where do you think the smart money lies this afternoon
47:56
so looking ahead to leadership race do you mean yeah i think if burnham gets through i think he
48:03
if he gets through in makerfield sorry i think he would be i think he'd be the party's leader
48:07
um i actually reform's throwing a lot at the makerfield by-election a lot of people will
48:13
come out to punish Labour there. People don't like the idea of a politically charged by-election
48:18
It feels like a waste of money. And I think that reform, if they capture the narrative enough and
48:23
say, look, their political jostling is wasting your money, that all they care about is themselves
48:28
I think that's a pretty strong line. I think people could end up voting reform. So I wouldn't be surprised if they lose Makerfield. In that case, I'd probably be looking
48:37
more closely at Angela Rayner than West Street King, just because I think the party, I don't know
48:42
West Street is a very good operator, but I think he does feel a bit too right wing for the party
48:47
And at the moment, it feels like a lot of people are concerned about how he's been maneuvering. And there are allegations of sort of being self-serving
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