Up next in 10
Iain Dale is joined by Tory MP and Shadow housing secretary Sir James Cleverly, who answers questions from both Iain and LBC listeners over the course of an hour, covering topics that include housing, defence spending, Donald Trump, Iran, and the rise of Reform. 00:00 - Why did he come back into the shadow cabinet? 01:00 - James's respect for former housing secretary Angela Rayner. 02:00 - Matt in Birmingham asks James what he would do to reduce fuel prices on the forecourt. 11:15 - Matthew in Burnley asks whether he would increase military spending, and where he would find the money to do so. 15:45 - Does James agree with former PM Liz Truss that Donald Trump is doing a good job as President, especially with regard to Iran? 18:50 - Christina in Beckenham asks whether James agrees that there's a 'hierarchy of racism' in this country after Kemi Badenoch made statements to that effect on Nick Ferrari's show on Monday. 27:10 - George in Walthamstow asks when it will get easier for young people to get a foot on the housing ladder. 33:00 - Doug in Rickmansworth tries to corner James, asking him to defend his Brexit stance 10 years on. 37:00 - Iain asks James whether he's considered running for Mayor of London. 38:50 - Spencer in Crawley reminds James of his defeat by Kemi Badenoch in the Conservative Party leadership race, asking if he would have been a better leader than the current boss. 41:50 - David in Bayswater brings up the defections from the Tory party to Reform, asking if it's had a material effect on the Conservatives. 45:00 - Quickfire questions, including St. George's Day, Brooklyn Beckham, and Arsenal's title hopes. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #iaindale #jamescleverly #conservative #conservativeparty #tories #tory #toryparty #ukpolitics #keirstarmer #donaldtrump #iran #news #trump #politics #reform #reformuk #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
He's former Foreign Secretary, former Home Secretary
0:02
He's now Shadow Housing and Local Government Secretary. Came back into, can you be, do not shadow cabinet after a little bit of a break
0:10
What prompted you to do that? To be honest with you, I was watching how hard a lot of my other parliamentary candidates
0:19
my parliamentary colleagues were working. And it is a byproduct of numbers
0:25
You forget that whether you are one short of a majority or whether you are well short of a majority, there's a certain amount of work that you have to do as the official opposition that the minor parties don't have to do
0:39
Whether those Lib Dems, Greens, I was about to say UKIP, Reform, they don't have to do them
0:49
The official opposition, there's a lot of work to do. And I thought, you know, I've got to play my part
0:55
So I came back in. And actually, I also realised I miss it
1:00
You're addicted to these kind of things. I was slightly surprised when you took that job. And then I thought, no, I know, James, he quite fancies going up against Angela Rayner
1:08
But that didn't last long, did it? I was genuinely, I like Angela Rayner
1:14
I respect her a lot. I think a lot of people really underestimate her, including people in the labour movement
1:20
I thought that would be a really, really good and challenging brief
1:27
And then, you know, she got caught with her dodgy tax affairs
1:32
And I never, never sparred with her across the dispatch box, which is I don't have many regrets in my life
1:39
Maybe that's a mini regret. Well, maybe you'll have an opportunity soon
1:43
Who knows? Right. The point of this hour is for you to ask James questions rather than me
1:47
0345 6060 973. If you can't phone, you can WhatsApp your question on that number
1:52
or you can text 84850. And, of course, as usual, you can watch the whole three-hour programme
1:56
on Global Player, the LBC app, and the LBC YouTube channel. Let's go to Matt in Birmingham first up
2:03
Hello, Matt. Evening. Evening, James. Good evening, Matt. Yes, my question to you
2:11
So, Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour Party keep banging on about this 5p
2:15
like they're freezing the 5p hike. that's alright for now but the fuel crisis
2:23
is here and it's hurting a lot of people. What would you
2:27
do as a party to actually tackle the actual problem, you know
2:32
of the amount of tax that is charged to the general public
2:39
You make a really good point. There are things that the government
2:43
could do right now with regard to the cost of fuel. Because people are feeling it right now
2:51
And the biggest lever at their disposal is the tax that they apply to fuel, whether it's domestic fuel, industrial fuel, petrol pump prices
3:04
They can do something about that right now. And they're choosing not to
3:08
So Claire Coutinho, who is our shadow energy minister, has set out a detailed plan
3:15
And it is available. You can look at it online. and it includes short-term, medium-term and long-term things
3:22
So the short-term stuff is about reducing the tax. The government could do that straight away
3:26
By how much? Well, I'm a conservative. My instinct is the more the better
3:32
Because 55% of every litre of fuel that we buy, the price of that, 55% is tax
3:38
Yeah. The majority of the spend is tax, as you say. And that is purely in the gift of the government
3:44
So they could reduce the tax straight away. Yeah, but you could reduce it by 10 pence or you could reduce it by 50 pence
3:52
I mean, the 50 pence obviously would make a huge difference to people. Is she suggesting that level of subsidy
3:58
To be honest with you, I'd need to double check the... Well, it's not a subsidy
4:03
Well, OK, as soon as I said the word, I thought wrong word. But you know what I mean. I do know what you mean
4:07
But the point is, this is about choices. the government is choosing to spend more money on unproductive things like the welfare bill
4:15
They've decided to scrap the two-child benefits cap, which will cost billions of pounds
4:21
So they're choosing to spend more money on things like that. And they're choosing not to reduce the taxes on people who have to drive to get to work
4:27
And of course, most people in the country use private cars to get to work rather than public transport
4:32
So they could and should do that. But also what we have set out is that we should be opening those oil and gas fields in the North Sea
4:42
Norway, our friend and neighbour, are doing exactly that and selling those
4:47
That's being sold. It's sold on the open market, but the tax revenue goes to the UK. But that's not a short-term thing
4:51
No, that's a longer-term thing. But one short-term thing you could do, and Kemi, when she was here a couple of weeks ago doing a phone
4:57
she denied that the petrol forecourts were profiteering. And yet in my local petrol station, the price of diesel has been 190 a litre for the last three weeks
5:10
The price of oil has gone down from $110 a barrel to somewhere between 85 and 95
5:17
And yet the price hasn't changed. And Ian, I am not going, I am definitely not going to defend the petrol retailers
5:24
But the uncertainty that the government introduces. So uncertainty and risk have to be priced in
5:32
And a lot of businesses are unwilling to pass on savings because they know that they get whacked with taxes
5:42
So when things go well, they get whacked with taxes. When things go less well, they've got to absorb the pain
5:46
Now, it's for them to balance their books, but the bottom line is that a bit more certainty enables businesses of all types to pass on savings when they come
6:00
But as I say, we set out a plan which involves tax cuts in the short term, in opening up our oil and gas fields in the medium term
6:09
and a proper commitment to things like small modular nuclear reactors in the medium to long term
6:15
And the accumulation of those things gives us a much, much cheaper energy mix, which is good for you, good for business, good for the country
6:22
Matt, do you want to come back? Yeah, I want to come back with one thing, actually
6:26
It's about, you just mentioned about the taxes that the companies incur, different areas incur different taxes
6:33
But there's a few fuel stations around by my area. The one I've been getting from me is at 140 on at the moment for petrol, which is pretty cheap
6:41
It's really cheap. and then you go two miles down the road and they're at 159, 160, give or take
6:48
So how can you say that they're trying to protect themselves in regards to the cost of taxes on themselves
7:00
You know, they're all paying the same and it all comes out the same. I work down by Ham's Hall, I do, near Cozyl
7:07
and it all gets pumped out of there from the refinery. It comes from the same spot it does
7:11
that there's no difference when they say it's all filtered differently it's not filtered okay it all
7:17
comes in the same trucks so this funny enough Matt this is this is an example of where the government
7:23
wastes public money so they were spending money to create an app to let drivers like you know where they can get the cheapest petrol Cracking idea brilliant idea which is why a number of commercial app developers have already
7:36
done that and you can download their apps completely for free and find the cheapest
7:40
petrol and diesel in your local area. Yet the government decide to spend public money
7:45
creating an app that already exists. And that's why we're all paying too much tax because you've
7:52
of that kind of incompetence in government. The aviation sector are now demanding subsidies
7:56
from the government, and the hospitality industry is too, because they've been hit by this in an obvious way
8:04
Do you think airlines deserve support? Well, I don't like, as a point of principle
8:11
this tax and subsidise, tax and subsidise, and it happens far too much
8:16
The better thing to do is to reduce the taxes in the first place
8:20
rather than maximizing taxes, which is fine, perhaps in a good year
8:24
But when you have something like the situation in the Gulf or the conflict in Ukraine or something else
8:30
when you have one of those kind of what people like to call external shocks
8:36
then the businesses genuinely are struggling financially. And they turn to the government and they say, well, you've made our business environment almost impossible to make any kind of profit in
8:50
So now you need to bail us out. I would much, much prefer we had a lower tax regime in the first place
8:56
But we are where we are. We are where we are. And some of these companies are saying, well, they might even go out of business if they don't get some sort of support
9:04
I mean, you remember the cabinet when Liz Truss had that energy support when Russia invaded Ukraine
9:10
£40 billion worth of subsidies to consumers. You didn't have a problem with those kind of subsidies at that point
9:18
And look what happened. We got punished by the markets. We got punished by the electorate. So the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Look, there was a very good reason why Liz put those subsidies in place
9:35
But I think the big error that she made at the same time was not making it clear to the market she had a plan to pay for those subsidies
9:46
And the markets punished the government and then the voters punished us
9:50
So let's not do that again. Let's create a situation where well-run businesses are able to make a sensible profit and basically self-insure against difficult situations
10:04
The message is no bailouts to the airlines, no bailouts to any sector, because we did that last time and we got it wrong
10:12
So the point is, the problem that is created is in significant part created by this government
10:18
They've been ramping up business taxes. They're making it harder to do business. To be fair, it's the war in Iran as well
10:23
But the point is, stuff always happens. Stuff always happens. The idea that there's never going to be something like the war in Iran or the war in Ukraine or a natural catastrophe somewhere in the world is nonsense
10:38
You have to put plans in place for the eventuality that something difficult happens
10:44
Yeah, but we live in an environment now where individuals and companies are the first sign of anything going wrong
10:50
The government must help. And we have got to move away from that because it's unsustainable
10:55
It is unsustainable. And this is why Kemi, I think, is absolutely right. We've got to be honest with people to say it is not the job of the government to make all the difficult things go away
11:05
It's the job of the government to create environments where people can have stability and they can have a decent enough income and ditto with businesses so we can be more self-reliant
11:15
Matthew in Burnley. Hello, Matthew. Hi, how are you? Nice to speak to you
11:19
Good, thank you. What would you like to ask? I'd like to ask Sir James if he agrees with me that military spending needs to increase immediately
11:26
and if so, where he'd find the budget to do so. I absolutely agree with you that military spending needs to increase and increase immediately
11:35
This whole kind of on the never-never, you've got Keir Starmer saying it needs to go up
11:39
and we'll do that at some point in the future. That's no good for the military leadership in terms of recruitment, in terms of equipment purchasing
11:48
in terms of repairing the accommodation estate across the armed forces. And it's no good because the threat is in the here and now
11:57
So I totally agree we need to do it and we need to do it now. And in terms of where the money would come from
12:04
again, we've been very, very clear, and we said this at a party conference
12:09
that we're only going to spend money where we can identify savings. Going back to the point we were saying you've got to balance the books
12:15
and the estimated £3 billion or so increase in the welfare budget
12:24
is the first place we would go to. So just at the same time... Reverse the two-child benefit
12:28
Reverse the two-child benefit cap. And this is why it is so disingenuous for the Prime Minister
12:36
to say, oh, money's tight, whilst basically writing a multi-billion-pound bribe to his own backbenchers, because that's what it is
12:48
That's what it is. It's to save his skin, and that money should be going into defence
12:53
That's the first port of call. But that's the drop in the ocean compared to what is needed, isn't it
12:58
You're a former military man yourself. You must see the threat not just from Russia but from other threats too
13:05
and think, well, it's not just conventional armaments that we need to spend money on
13:10
It's drones, it's cyber warfare, cyber security. And that is going to cost tens of billions of pounds, isn't it
13:18
So three billion pounds is a drop in the ocean. But it's a good it's an important down payment and it can be done quickly
13:25
That's money that can be deployed pretty quickly. And you're absolutely right
13:30
The conflicts in Ukraine has been a wake up call or should have been should be a wake up call for all of us
13:38
But periodically, the nature of conflict changes and changes dramatically. And I think we're at one of those periods
13:46
But you were Foreign Secretary in the government for two years after the invasion of Ukraine
13:51
I don't remember any big commitments being made on massively increasing defence spending in that time
13:57
Because you're right, the warnings have been there for some time. I think we could and should have gone further and faster with regard to our spending domestically
14:09
I think we made a lot of really, really good decisions. We denuded our own military capability in the short term to give the Ukrainian armed forces the stuff that they needed
14:22
whether it was from those NLOR missiles, artillery systems, weapons. So we stripped the cupboard bare because they needed it in the here and now
14:32
I felt at the time, and I feel still, that we should have been much, much more energetic at replenishing our own stocks
14:42
and giving a very unambiguous signal to the defence industry that we wanted them to really, really get working on replacing our equipment
14:51
our ammunition as well as building the next generation of military capabilities So yeah we could and perhaps should have done more The point of being in opposition is it forces you to do an audit
15:07
of what you did in government and what you would do differently in the future
15:11
And James Cartlidge, Kemi have absolutely set out where we will make savings and where we will spend the money
15:19
I mentioned this trust government earlier. You, of course, were Foreign Secretary in that government too
15:25
Now, yesterday, she was in the LBC studio speaking to my colleague, Tom Swarbrick, and said this
15:31
Do you think Trump's been a good president? I do. I think he's been a very good president
15:35
I think he's been a very good president. And I think if we'd had Kamala Harris, the West would be facing a very, very serious crisis
15:46
Do you think the war in Iran is justified? I do. I believe that the nuclear weapons that the Iranians were developing are a threat not just to the Middle East, but to global stability
15:58
And I watched, I was Foreign Secretary and Prime Minister when Biden was in
16:02
and I just watched the can being kicked down the road again and again, and the Iranians playing the system
16:10
And Trump has called them out. And so Keir Starmer has knocked back an ally on what you say is a justified war
16:18
Correct. Do you agree with your former boss? I agree with parts of what she was saying
16:25
So I do think that we, again, we could and shouldn't. I called for this at the time, and I'm sure it's minuted in meetings that I attended
16:33
I think the international community should have been much, much, much more firm and dynamic and robust with Iran to deter them from their nuclear ambitions
16:43
I think if we had done that, then this conflict might not have happened at all
16:47
She is right in that the idea of a nuclear weapon, a nuclear armed Iran is completely unacceptable
16:57
And I don't completely agree with her on President Trump's effectiveness. There have been certain things that he has done that have been very effective and there have been certain things that he has done that have been deeply counterproductive
17:12
So, you know, giving him an across-the-board set of straight A's, as I think Liz has done, I don't agree with that
17:19
Would you have relished being Foreign Secretary dealing with the Trump administration? Or are you rather glad you're not
17:25
Do you feel sorry for Yvette Cooper? People in diplomacy love predictability
17:33
That's the thing you crave the most. You rarely get it, but you crave it the most
17:39
This is a very unpredictable White House. And it makes being a friend and ally hard
17:45
Well, let's put it bluntly. Are they still a reliable ally in your view? Look, the relationship of the United States of America is one of the most important international relationships we have
17:56
Whoever is in the White House is the choice of the American people. And we have a duty both to the world as a whole, but to the British people in particular to make that relationship
18:08
Come on, they're not being reliable, are they? I mean, with the comments that Trump has made about our country, about our prime minister, about the mayor of London, the fact that he's now effectively a non-voting member of NATO because he just doesn't think it's a..
18:23
I mean, they're unreliable. Why can't you just say that? Well, you've got to deal with what you've got
18:28
And they are unpredictable. It's a very unpredictable bias. But why can't you just say they're unreliable
18:33
Because they clearly are. Because I'm using my own word, Ian. You can use your word. I can use my word
18:38
But the great thing about diplomacy is I get to use my language, you get to use yours. That is very true
18:42
Christina is in Beckenham. Hello, Christina. Hello, hello, hello. Nice to speak to you both
18:48
Hi. Hi. My question is really for you, James. I mean, I know that you're a Lewisham boy
18:54
I spoke with James earlier in the week, reflecting on what Kenny Badenock mentioned regarding the attack on North London
19:03
And what I wanted to ask simply was this The position she had taken that it was similar
19:11
Or if it had been a black church is the example she used
19:15
That the country or the government would be up in arms I just would like to know from yourself really
19:23
Do you agree with the words that she used? With the comparison that she drew
19:26
And with her bringing into the mix a black church? Did you hear what she said
19:34
I don't think I heard the particular quote. I think Corey's just said he can play it to us
19:38
Let's just hear it quickly. What I would say to all of your listeners
19:43
but especially the Jewish listeners, is that as a black woman in this country
19:47
I have never seen the level of racism, discrimination, intimidation and attacks that have been directed at the Jewish community
19:55
And I think that if people were firebombing black churches, We'd be calling the way that synagogues have been attacked, people killed, being firebombed, the ambulance services being firebombed
20:06
I think there'd be a national emergency. I think we're getting to that stage. We have now reached a point where people shrug their shoulders at what is happening to Jews
20:14
This is not right. I've got a lot of sympathy with what she's saying on that
20:21
I had conversations when I was home secretary with senior police officers when I was saying that their response to some of the anti-Semitic comments that we were seeing on the pro-Palestinian marches was unacceptable
20:38
And some were saying, well, you know, it's distasteful, it's not illegal
20:42
And the point I made was, had those banners had racist slogans directed at Britain's black communities, as they had racist slogans directed at British Jewish communities, I believe that the police would have been much, much, much more energetic in their arrests
21:02
And I made that point. I made that point. But that effectively says there is a hierarchy of racism in this country
21:08
Well, our position, Kemi's position, is that absolutely should not be a hierarchy
21:15
I think that there has been an unwillingness amongst some agencies of the state to be as energetic in guarding against anti-Jewish racism as they guard against other forms of racism
21:36
And I think that that is something as a society that we should be very, very..
21:41
But then again, you look at Nick Timothy's remarks about that Muslim prayer session in Trafalgar Square
21:49
And people say, well, that he's singling out one particular religious cultural group there
21:57
And that it could be seen as divisive in the same way that people are now accusing Kemi Bader-Koch of being divisive by effectively drawing, comparing two different forms of racism
22:10
Well I said at the time I don completely agree with Nick but he was you know I think he was making he was he was making an important point about the about the nature of faith in the public sphere and the role of women particularly in the public sphere I think that that that a fundamentally that is a fundamentally different an important but fundamentally different point
22:37
I think one of the things that we are looking to do, and Kemi is very, very, very strong
22:42
on this and very focused on this. It's about the universal and consistent application of the rules and norms and laws in the UK
22:56
And the fact is we've seen too many examples of where people have been deterred from doing the right thing because they are so scared of accusations of racism
23:07
And that is completely counterproductive. So, look, I want to make sure that everyone feels safe in the country
23:17
I want to make sure that everybody knows that the state will treat them equally, fairly and evenly
23:23
And at the moment, I've had too many people tell me that is not how they feel
23:27
Christina, what's your reaction to what James has said? I think the last sentence you made is what I'd like to pick up on, which is equal treatment
23:36
meaning being treated fairly regardless of your particular box you may check
23:42
I mentioned earlier in the week my sister's children are Jewish from their father's side
23:49
they're Caribbean from their mother's side. Now the position that I sit in when I look at things like Kimmy Badenow's comments are
23:56
in the UK you cannot compare pain. You can't compare one group's hurt with another
24:04
And that is where I feel that the error was made. Feel free to disagree or to pose a different point
24:11
But that is fundamentally, she used herself as speaking as a black woman
24:18
Now, I just think that she's kind of gafflet of a large community of women, of black people
24:25
And then, of course, men and women. But I just think it was an error
24:29
And I don't have any bad feelings for Kemi. I think she's done a beautiful job as conservative leader
24:34
I think that there's steps and I used to be Labour but they have stung me with the VAT rise
24:40
on my son's school fees so I am looking around at the parties
24:43
and I'm questioning things but this I don't think was a good call on her part
24:48
Look, I understand the point you make I'm not sure, well I am sure
24:54
I don't completely agree with you but you do raise a fair point
25:01
you raise a fair point But I think Cammie's raising an important point as well, which is, and as I say, I've used examples where I would say the same set of actions in a slightly different context would trigger a different response
25:21
And that shouldn't be how it is. I thought the interesting thing about that was that she said speaking as a black woman, because I don't think I've ever heard her say that before
25:29
It's a bit like you never heard Margaret Thatcher say, well, speaking as a woman. And Kemi hasn't used her own racial background in the past to the extent that she she might have done, actually
25:41
So. It's not completely unheard, but she doesn't she doesn't push that to the forefront
25:48
And that's one of the things I'm one of the reasons I am so proud of this country is that the conservative party, the arguably most traditionally British party in the British political spectrum, is led by a black woman
26:08
And mainly no one gives a monkey. No one cares. And we had an Indian heritage prime minister
26:16
No one really cared. We had a mixed race, English, African, foreign sector
26:21
The list goes on and on and on. So both as a country and as a party, I love the fact that for the majority of the time
26:30
we discuss ideas and policy and philosophy rather than skin colour and religion and heritage
26:37
And I think that's massively, massively to our credit. Another right wing guest, I see
26:41
did you say that when we had a Davion last week for an hour-long phone-in
26:46
I don't think you did or I must have missed that. We have got a government minister coming on for an hour-long phone-in from Labour next week as well
26:55
So in an election period we actually do have to be balanced. You might not think so sometimes but I can assure you we take those responsibilities very seriously
27:03
James Cleverley is here answering your questions. George in Walthamstow has got one. Hi George
27:09
Hi Ian. Hi James. A question onto your brief now, James, on housing
27:15
As a young person who's trying to move up onto the housing ladder eventually
27:20
amidst the Conservatives talking about things like cuts, financial responsibility, etc., how will you ensure young people like me will have affordable, cheaper, but quality housing in areas like London
27:35
and won't be forced to move out miles away from London? How old are you, James
27:40
George. George. Sorry, I'm 18. Well, I bought my first flat in Walthamstow in 1988, and I was 26, and it cost me £58,000
27:53
I looked on Zoopla the other day, and a similar flat in the same road was going for £380,000
28:00
I mean, that's a challenge. That's a challenge, James, isn't it? It is, George. Look, you're asking all the right questions
28:07
And I'm going to be completely honest with you. At the moment, I can't give you all the answers because we're still working on policy, but I can give you some indicators of where my head is at on this
28:21
So firstly, a couple of things really, really important. We've got to get stuff built
28:26
We've got to get more houses built. And in your question, you said you implied getting them good quality and in the right place
28:36
and one of the points that I'm making is when conservatives like me say we shouldn't be building
28:42
all over the green belt to be credible we also have to identify where we are going to build so
28:50
it's not enough for conservatives to go we're not going to build over there we have to be willing to
28:54
say but we will build over here and and brownfield previously used land is where it's at and there is
29:01
lots of that all these people say oh there's not much brownfield nonsense there is plenty
29:05
But we need to significantly reduce the cost of building on brownfield sites
29:13
At the moment, it's much, much cheaper building in open fields than it is, say, on former industrial land or that kind of stuff
29:19
We need to rebalance that. We do need to give people like you the genuine belief that they will have a chance to get on the property ladder
29:32
and that they can do so in the places where they want to live
29:38
There's no point in having people who work in London but can only afford to have something like two hours commute away
29:46
There's no good at all. One of the things that we're looking to do is get more liquidity in the housing market
29:51
get more stuff actually being bought and sold. And part of it is encouraging people to downsize when they're in homes bigger
29:59
they need, which is one of the reasons why we're going to scrap stamps duty on people's primary
30:05
residences, because there are lots of people who feel trapped financially in houses. And I've had
30:11
conversations where they'd be quite happy to downsize, get a bit of cash in their pocket
30:16
free up a family size house. And when someone moves out of a big house, you might think to
30:21
yourself as a young person, well, I'm not in the market to buy that kind of house, which is true
30:28
But somebody is and they will be moving up. And there is a ripple effect which frees up entry level homes that you might be in a position to afford
30:38
The problem for George is that I mean, if you're 18, I guess you're probably not looking to buy something immediately, George
30:44
But mortgage costs are likely to rise over the next couple of years because of what's happening in the Middle East
30:50
Interest rates are likely to go up. You can't mitigate that, can you really
30:55
unless you try and buck the market. And that's not something conservatives generally are keen on doing
31:00
Well, it's not just whether you're keen or unkeen on doing it. It's like trying to defy gravity
31:05
It just doesn't work. So certain things we've got to do. We've got to up the rate of house building
31:13
The Labour government talk about building 1.5 million houses. Nobody that I speak to in the sector
31:18
believed that is going to happen, and they never did. But they're not doing any of the things to make it happen
31:26
In fact, house building is in decline. And you mentioned London. In London, the latest figures we have is that only 5,500 new homes were built in London in a year
31:41
That is nowhere near. But is that because the building sector just won't invest in building new houses
31:51
they've got the land to do it, but they're not building? Or is it the planning system
31:56
Is it politicians are not or trying to... The actions that politicians are taking
32:02
whether it's in local or national government, are effectively stultifying the market
32:07
It's a number of things. There are enough planning consents across the UK
32:10
to meet our short to medium term housing needs if they all got built out
32:15
So planning is part of the issue, But in the short term, that's not the real pinch point because there are loads and loads of planning consent across the country, including in London
32:26
Money is an issue. It's the conversations I've had. A lot of building firms said, actually, it is now so hard to make money that they actually get better return on capital, pretty much, by sticking it in a bank rather than building houses
32:43
So, it's disincentivizing them doing the business. Cost of employing builders has gone through the roof
32:47
cost of materials has gone through the roof because of the decisions that the government has made
32:52
Right. Thank you very much indeed for your question, George. Good luck on the housing market at some point, hopefully in your 20s
32:59
Now, Doug in Rickmansworth is on the line and wants to have a word
33:03
Hello, Doug. Hello there. Hello, Mr James. I have a quick question
33:10
We're coming up to 10 years since the Brexit vote. and you were obviously an ardent supporter of leaving the EU
33:18
Could you tell me, without mentioning COVID, Ukraine, or the great trade deals that we sort of have with countries
33:28
but can't really rely on them, and I'm not sure whether they're actually all that great
33:32
like Australia and the US, can you tell me whether you think the country is now in a better place
33:37
than it was 10 years ago? So, short answer is yes, but the longer answer is
33:42
Why do you say without mentioning three very, very obvious advantages? It's a bit kind of putting your thumb on the scales
33:49
But they're not advantages. The U.S. trade deal is completely unreliable. Yeah, but the U.S. trade deal was not the only trade deal that we signed
34:00
And he laughed at us. Well, look, I'm just going to put this out there
34:05
I'm unconvinced you're really in the mood to be persuaded by my answer. but nevertheless I will plow on Given the benefit of the doubt James I will plow on I live in Europe You can still live in Europe My children could go and study in Europe They can still study in Europe
34:20
Well, they can if they pay third country fees. That's lovely. Thank you very much
34:25
Well, hey, look, so as I say, I'm not convinced you're going to be convinced
34:31
But the simple fact of the matter. Because you created an environment where, frankly, fairly odious individuals, even worse than Farage, are now mainstream
34:42
That's the environment that was created because your party decided to try and stop itself self-destructing
34:51
I am very comfortable that a huge issue, our relationship with Europe, which was something which had an effect on so many areas of our lives, hadn't been tested against the views of the British people for a decade
35:11
Many of whom they've had. Yeah, that's where we are. Look, as I say, you can ask and answer your own questions
35:20
But the point is that we had not tested our relationship with the European Union against the few of the British people for decades
35:29
It is completely legitimate to do so. The British people came up with an answer, clearly one that you don't like
35:35
I get it. There are always advantages and disadvantages to being or not being a member state of the EU
35:42
You talk about your children having the opportunity to live and work in Europe
35:47
They can still do that. Your children could live and work in the US. They could live and work in Africa
35:51
They can live and work in the Middle East. The point is that the British people had a chance to speak
35:59
They spoke. It's incumbent on the British government to deliver on the explicit mandate of the British people in that referendum
36:10
and, you know, we're always very comfortable with what we know. And moving to something new can sometimes
36:17
I think in your case is probably the case, it can be disconcerting, discomforting
36:23
maybe even something you don't like. But the bottom line is that a lot of the criticisms
36:29
that we saw of the Brexit vote, when people say, oh, we've taken this huge economic collapse
36:34
this is just not borne out by the figures. And so I absolutely stand by putting the questions of the British people
36:42
And I absolutely stand by my campaigning to leave the European Union
36:46
I absolutely stand by the fact that we obeyed the instructions of the voters. Before we come to another listener question, I'm going to use my presenter's privilege
36:54
And I want a news line out of you, James. Go on, do you? Are you going to run for Mayor of London
36:59
You would love me to give you a scoop. I would, yeah, genuinely. I'm going to..
37:04
You showed a bit of ankle on it, haven't you? I love you. You're a fantastic professional. You're a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant
37:11
But I can hear the word but coming. But I am not going to say to you anything that I've not said before or recently, which is, look, it's an incredibly important job
37:21
A number of people have asked me to think about it, both in London and elsewhere
37:27
I love being the MP4 brain tree. And I've always said it would be a very, very, very, very high bar for me to want to step away from that
37:34
But it's an incredibly important job. And as someone who works in London, is from London, and whose constituency is affected by London, Sadiq Khan being asleep at the wheel for the last four or five years is painful to watch
37:49
And I think the city suffered accordingly, as have the people in my constituency who are affected by London's success or otherwise
37:56
Do you think you'd be good at it? Of course, I think I'd be good at it. I think I'd be good at everything
38:00
I'm a politician, and we've got that little streak of arrogance. Because you did think about it before, didn't you, in 2016
38:06
Yeah, I gave it some... No, not 2016, but when I was on the London Assembly
38:15
I did give it some serious thought. But look, in hindsight, I had nowhere near the experience
38:20
It's actually a very important job, a very technical job. Well last time they were so desperate they even asked me to consider running and I said I rather stick needles in my eyes But I taking that as a sort of tentative yes So sticking needles in the eyes Is that you showing a bit of ankle now
38:35
No, it really isn't. That's what you would say. No, no, no, no. I will say definitively no, and you haven't said that, have you
38:42
Just saying, just saying. Lots of candidates have previously said definitive no's and then gone on to run
38:48
That is true. Spencer is in Crawley. Hello, Spencer. Evening. Hi. James, following your loss to Kemi as leader of the Conservative Party
38:59
Thanks for bringing that up. Thank you. Much different would your leadership have been from what Kemi has achieved
39:05
Oh, cheers. Thank you. That's a lovely, lovely question. Look, so funnily enough, we're not meant to discuss off-air conversations, but..
39:17
Oh, God, what did I say? We were talking about Kemi's leadership, and I said at the time
39:23
So I don't think I'm giving away too much or courting accusations of disloyalty
39:29
So my sales pitch when I was running for leadership is I was the most experienced candidate on the ticket
39:36
And if elected leader of the Conservative Party, I could hit the ground running and get us off to a flying start
39:43
And my observation was that none of the other candidates have that level of experience
39:48
And I stand by that. It was a statement of fact. I think Kemi got off to a slower start than I would have because I had more experience
39:57
I'd done more media, et cetera, et cetera. The point I was making to Ian, and I look at myself on this, her acceleration has been phenomenal
40:11
And she has developed a style at the dispatch box which has completely wrong-footed Keir Starmer
40:20
He was very condescending towards her at the start. He gets bested by her every single Wednesday without fail
40:29
That's now just priced in. That's not true. It is true. I mean, pretty much true
40:35
OK, but there have been occasions when he has beaten her in the last six months
40:40
But I accept that she's so much better. She she's been much tighter in terms of the the issues that she campaigns on, because it's very, very tempting to try and cover all your bases
40:55
And she's been very, very, very clear. Our duty is to protect the country, is to grow the economy, is to make sure the books balance
41:03
You become very, very disciplined very, very quickly on that. And also, she's got to know the mechanism of running a party in opposition very, very quickly
41:16
So, look, what would have been different? I think I would have got off to a faster start, perhaps
41:23
But genuinely, and I would say this, wouldn't I? She's my boss. I think she has learned her job very, very quickly and demonstrably improved very, very quickly
41:33
and is now, without doubt, the most credible party leader on the scene
41:41
Spencer, do you agree? I agree with all of that. Well, there we are then
41:46
There you go. You've either won someone over or just reinforced their existing view
41:51
Thank you very much, Spencer. David in Bayswater says, how can the Conservatives still be credible after they've lost so many prominent members to reform
42:00
Well, prominent is not the same as effective. and making noise in politics gets you attention
42:10
but that's not the point of the job. And my observation about reform is that they're very good at pointing at problems
42:18
they're very good at convincing people that they are on their side
42:23
and the things that voters are angry about, they are angry about. The Greens do the same, actually
42:27
Slightly different audience, but they do the same kind of, if you're angry about it, we're angry about it
42:32
You should vote for me and we can be angry together. That doesn actually fix any of the problems And one of the things that I noticed is the pattern of people who have been defecting to reform are the people who are very good at shouting less good at delivering So when I was at the Home Office for example I decided to do it the other way around
42:50
A little bit less noise, a lot more action, which is why under my relatively short tenure, we put the changes to the visa regime, which have massively reduced levels of immigration into the UK
43:07
something my predecessors who are now in reform failed to do. The number of asylum hotels reached its peak at 400 under my predecessor
43:18
and I handed almost half the number. That would have been Sweller Brave. That would have been Sweller, who's now
43:23
And Robert Jenrick. Both of whom now are in reform. And at the general election, the number of asylum hotels had gone from 400 down to 215
43:34
And in the intervening couple of years, the Labour government have managed to close another dozen or so
43:41
But I closed, I and my team at the Home Office, good team at the Home Office, managed to close nearly 200 asylum hotels
43:50
Which of the people that have gone to reform do you regret most
43:54
I don't regret because when someone goes to another political party, the heart moves before the body
44:07
And if they've checked out, if they want to be protest rather than delivery, then I don't regret them going
44:13
because the country now more than has been true in a very, very, very long time
44:20
need people in politics that are focused on delivery. If you want to be a commentator, fine
44:28
It is an honourable and noble profession. It is not the same as actually being a politician
44:36
So you want to talk about politics, that's great. If you want to do politics, that's important too
44:41
the people that have gone have gone and as Kemmy said, they are
44:45
Nigel's problem now and you know, she and the rest of the Shadow Cabinet, me included
44:52
are focused on delivering for the British. Right, well your problem now
44:55
is our quickfire round. Oh, this is always easy, this is great, these
44:59
never end careers. Tomorrow, how are you celebrating St George's Day? I will find
45:08
some interesting image of St George somewhere on the internet, post it
45:11
online and wish everyone happy St George's Day and quietly out of sight
45:15
I might have a beer after work maybe two, maybe three. Would you
45:19
rather go for a beer with Ollie Robbins or Morgan McSweeney? Could I be the
45:28
fly on the wall and make them have a beer with each other? That would be good
45:32
That's your best answer so far. Do you side with Brooklyn Beckham or his parents
45:37
So as a parent, what are this you're going to talk about heartstrings that it's genuinely heartbreaking to see a family
45:45
row like that either publicly or or privately and as a parent i think i'm probably instinctively a
45:51
bit more sympathetic with his mum and dad the michael jackson biopic is coming out we've had
45:55
them about freddie mercury elton john elvis presley who should be next well a musical biopic or
46:02
whatever you like uh i would like a reagan biopic there is one oh is there
46:09
Have I missed that? Very good one on Netflix. Well, I'll be watching that
46:13
I might try and watch that tonight. And thank you for saying it properly. It's biopic, not biopic
46:19
It's biopic. Ridiculous. And finally, one that you'll really enjoy. Have Arsenal bottled it
46:26
Like a dagger through your heart. I'm not going to say yes, because I've got that silly belief that if I say it
46:37
that somehow me saying it on the radio would maybe make it true. So I'm going to say no, they haven't
46:42
It's a blip and they are going to accelerate and we'll get at least half the four results that we..
46:49
Well, you've got Woody in the gallery pumping his fist at all of that
46:53
So anyway, thank you very much for coming in, James
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