0:00
It's one thing to say, as he insists on saying, nobody told me, nobody told me anything, nobody told me
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The question is, why didn't the Prime Minister ask? We got there
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Mr Speaker, in relation to her question, let me be clear. I should not have appointed Peter Mandelson
0:29
As soon as the further revelations came to light, I did ask
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I asked the Cabinet Secretary to review the process so I could be assured about the process
0:39
He wrote to me on the 16th of September, setting out the conclusions of that review
0:43
and assuring me the process had been followed properly. Ladies and gentlemen, what you have heard there is, well, you've had a ringside seat to Sir Keir versus Sir Humphrey
0:54
A battle between a politician and, in effect, large chunks of what seems to be the civil service in the Foreign Office
1:01
Mr Process hates the process. Sir Keir Starmer has said that it is right that the Permanent Secretary of the Foreign Office, Sir Ollie Robbins, should go
1:10
has lost confidence in him because he followed the process that was laid out to those people not to disclose the findings of any vetting
1:18
It's all over the place still, this. Although I have to say, taking the Prime Minister at his word when he went through in great detail
1:25
what wasn't made clear to him, leaves you I think with a sense of just how in the dark
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even those at the centre of power seem to be from the people who have spent their careers in the civil service who if we honest believe themselves to be the ones running Britain And it left me asking the
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same question that we have asked together over the last few years. Who is actually in charge
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Who really runs Britain? If the Prime Minister of the day is left so uninformed about one of the
2:04
bigger diplomatic decisions they are making in terms of the person in the United States. If a
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prime minister can be left so in the dark about their own appointment to that job, what else is
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the prime minister not being told by a civil service who, to be fair to them, a lot of them
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by the civil service who have seen politician come and politician go, endless political crises
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have had enough of all of it, have been moved from pillar to post on Brexit and on referenda and on
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elections and on all this leadership row and who probably just want to get on with the day job of
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running the country and we have this extraordinary tension blown out into the open between the people
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who decide on the process and who say that they are following the process versus the politician
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who is trying to steer the country and make the right decision and it has come exploding out in
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that session in the house of commons about which there are still huge questions but on the prime
3:01
Minister's version of events leaves the civil service and the foreign office in particular
3:05
lying tyre marked under the bus. Agui Chambre is obviously deputy political editor. Where do we go
3:13
Where do we go indeed I mean difficult difficult questions for the Prime Minister so far I honestly thought you were going to say difficult difficult lemon difficult But then I stopped myself I know and I didn say it But you should have done it Difficult questions for the Prime Minister and I think those will absolutely continue
3:31
as this tortuous, for him, session continues. But what he is trying to do, what he has tried to do so far, is, number one
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say that the judgment he made over appointing Peter Mandelson was wrong
3:45
apologising again to the victims of Epstein. And then, as you say, just say, foreign office officials did not pass this information on to me, on to the then Foreign Secretary, on to the current Foreign Secretary, or on to any other minister. Talk about how unacceptable it was. That information also wasn't passed on to Sir Chris Wormald, who was then Cabinet Secretary at the time, using words like staggering, unforgivable, going through the timeline too, and talking about the fact that they have now changed it
4:13
So I think this is actually crucial, Tom, the fact that Peter Mandelson was announced in December 2024 before that developed vetting had go on
4:24
He has said that was normal. He says that that's backed up by Sir Chris Wermald, who's the former cabinet secretary
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fine, that's normal but we do know, because it was in these documents
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that were released a few weeks ago that there was advice from Simon
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Keyes, who was the former Cabinet Secretary that he should, that the Cabinet Secretary would develop a plan for them to
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acquire the necessary security clearances and due diligence on any particular conflicts
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of interest or any other issues before confirming your choice that was from Simon Keyes and he was asked
5:00
about that in the Commons just now. Well that was the yes question from Sir Ed Davie which he didn answer yes or no to No no he didn answer yes or no It was no yes or no It was no yes or no And I think that is a crucial question from Ed Davey He basically said oh well you know it seems like from what Chris Wormald said that I did the right thing
5:15
Can we, just to pull out from all of this for a moment, because we're now into the weeds of the former, former cabinet permanent secretary asking about this out there
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But the reality is, it seems now very clear, and the Prime Minister repeated it in the House of Commons there
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that nobody in number 10 knew about Mandelson failing the vetting. Yes
5:35
If that stands up and is shown to be the case, then no one brings a challenge to that
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One, that is completely extraordinary, and as the Prime Minister says, rightly unforgivable
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and two, keeps him safe, doesn't it? He can't really be removed from his job
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for probably that he should have known when clearly the system had protected him from knowing
5:59
I think that's probably right. And the charge against him then is, and using words that Labour MPs have used to me
6:05
and indeed the opposition, but incompetent and curious, he said over and over again..
6:09
Too trusting of the process. Too trusting of the process. I mean, he loves the process, apparently
6:14
But I think that was actually a critical moment as well when Kemi Badenoch was asking him questions
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and asked him to repeat at the dispatch box, which of course is a slightly different thing to saying things outside of the House of Comments
6:25
when he said, did anyone in Number 10 know before Tuesday? And he did effectively repeat that at the dispatch box
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So I think we can take that as read, that that is true
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I don't think he's found... And speaking to Labour MPs before this, how safe is he
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And the answer was, it depends whether or not he has lied or is found to have been lying
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And as you say, from that, it doesn't seem like he has been found lying
