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Andrew Marr speaks to Housing Secretary Steve Reed and Labour peer Lord David Blunkett about Keir Starmer's fate. In a speech from today, Sir Keir said he took “responsibility” for the losses but would fight on. Speculation about the Prime Minister’s future has intensified since Thursday’s elections, in which Labour lost almost 1,500 English councillors, went backwards in Scotland and slumped to third in Wales. Steve Reed address the pressure for the PM to resign, saying 'we can't just doomscroll through leaders.' Yet Andrew Marr says Starmer's speech was not 'a speech of new thinking and ideas'. Labour Peer Lord David Blunkett says there needs to be 'a timetable' for Starmer's resignation, adding 'we can't stagger through summer like this'. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #andrewmarr #starmer #ukpolitics #labour #ukpolitics #LBC
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0:00
It's just after six, and so far Keir Starmer has held off a direct challenge to his leadership
0:05
after a passionate speech. He even unbuttoned his shirt. And there are millions of people in that boat. Millions of people who don't get the dignity
0:14
the respect, the chance that they deserve to go as far as their talent and effort should take them
0:21
Millions of people held back because the status quo in this country does not work for them
0:27
I am fighting for them. We are fighting for them. I am their prime minister and this is their government
0:33
But possible steel nationalisation apart, this was short on new thinking. If you were looking for a surprising new Keir Starmer you hadn't come across before, he wasn't there
0:45
This was good Keir, but it was also very Keir. What might help him more was another speech by somebody else, his one-time deputy, Angela Rayner
0:54
who more or less raised the red flag and promised trade unionists
0:58
the left was on the march. We as a party have to do better than this
1:04
And we can only prove we mean our Labour values by putting the common interest ahead of factionalism
1:13
And we can start by accepting that Andy Burnham should never have been blocked
1:18
It was a mistake that the leadership of our party should put right
1:24
Now, factionalism, when it's used by the Labour left, these days is generally code for Wes Streeting
1:32
Angela Rayner sounds as if she thinks the next Prime Minister should be the Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham
1:38
Getting him back into the Commons, however, if it's even possible, may take months
1:43
which is why leftish Labour MPs are now giving Starmer until September to resign
1:48
But why would others to the right, like Wes Streeting, go along with that
1:52
Supporters of his are now among the more than 50 MPs calling for the Prime Minister to step down
1:58
But streeting's in a tough place. He breaks cover now, and the left will stand against him
2:04
and having apparently started a civil war, he might even lose that fight
2:08
But if he doesn't stand, the Andy Burnham moment arrives, and that may be that
2:15
Separate to all of this, there is, of course, also still the Catherine West manoeuvre
2:19
as she tries to get more than 81 pledges, which would allow her to initiate a leadership contest in her own name to get things started
2:27
And at this point, if you're halfway through emptying the dishwasher or you're trying to negotiate an infuriatingly slow roundabout
2:35
you may be wondering, what does all this mean for me? One way or another, you will notice
2:41
It means the likelihood of the Labour government moving left. A bigger emphasis on workers' rights and higher taxes, including wealth taxes
2:49
softer on migration, less worried about the bond markets. The Labour right fears that would take us towards a fiscal crisis
2:57
big enough to spark an early election. And already today, judging the Starmer speech likely to cause a change of leader
3:04
the bond markets have further increased the cost of government borrowing. Keir Starmer has spoken
3:11
Angela Rayner has had her say, and quite a say it was
3:15
Before long, it has to be Wes Streeting's moment. Politics is always, but always, a question of character
3:23
But although the number of Labour MPs who have now publicly called for the Prime Minister to go is around 50
3:29
it's perfectly possible he could yet see this out. Let's hear first from the Housing and Local Government Secretary, Steve Reid
3:36
Angela Rayner has laid out a clear left-wing agenda for the government. What did he think of it
3:40
Well, I saw the piece that Angela had published over the weekend
3:46
It was a list of the things that we're already doing. And I think it was quite right to point to all of those things, building more social housing, investing more in our poorest communities, restoring rights to workers that were taken away by the previous government
4:01
It was a list of the things this government's already doing. She wants more wealth taxes, she wants more taxes, she wants a higher minimum wage and she wants more rights for workers
4:11
And my question is, how does that become a growth agenda? Well, the answer to the problems that we face as a country, and this has been the case for two decades now, is we have to see economic growth, because that is the way that you put more money into people's pockets sustainably
4:27
We already have some of the highest levels of taxation that we've had in our history
4:32
And borrowing And borrowing That right And there is a limit to how far you can go with this We have to grow the economy We have to grasp the opportunities that are coming from AI and new technology
4:45
because that is where the jobs of the future are going to be. We're in a race with other countries around the world as to who wins
4:53
you know, who wins the race to get to the front of being the place
4:58
that people want to invest in and where those jobs will be. We're actually quite well positioned. We've got globally leading universities here
5:06
We've got now the planning reforms that this government has put in place so we can get those new giga factories and data centres built
5:13
We're putting in the infrastructure that will bring the energy, the clean energy and the water to those new facilities
5:18
We are poised to lead the new industrial revolution. That is where we should be looking for
5:23
So that sounds kind of exciting. Why didn't we hear it from the prime minister today
5:27
I did not hear a new or fresh or really energetic growth agenda, which I was expecting
5:34
Well, the prime minister wasn't trying to do a complete ysis of everything in his speech today
5:41
He was pointing to the fact that as with nationalising British steel
5:45
this is a government that will be active and will act with urgency when it's required
5:49
He pointed to Europe because one of the quickest ways we can grow our economy
5:52
is to take down those barriers to trade that cut exports by 20%
5:56
I'm sorry to jump in. He pointed to Europe, but ruling out, making a big jump there
6:01
He said we were going to put Britain at the heart of Europe, but he rules out the customs union
6:05
He rules out the single market. That's not putting Britain at the heart of Europe. We were elected on a manifesto that rules those things out, but there's a world of difference
6:13
You're still being very timid. There's a world of difference. It's not timid to tear down barriers to trade that have cut British exports by 20%
6:20
Just think of the jobs that has taken away. Just think of the investment that has started
6:25
You're not tearing down barriers. You're reducing or removing slightly previous barriers that were there
6:30
It's not a radical agenda. Barriers that cut British trade with the European Union by 20
6:36
have cost us billions in jobs and investments in this country. We can take them down and we can get back to working with Europe
6:43
But it's not just about trade. We face a global security crisis now
6:47
We need to work more closely with our European partners to keep our country safe. The defence investment plan is still on the Prime Minister's desk
6:54
where it has been sitting for months. No fast action, no action this day, no movement
6:59
Well, it's important on something like that that we get it right. But he was speaking about young people as well
7:04
He was talking about why shouldn't young people today, just because of Brexit, not have the chances I had when I was younger
7:10
to go and live and work in Europe? We want to give our young people those opportunities
7:14
That is still a deal to be negotiated. We'll see what happens. We're negotiating it. That's right. That's right
7:18
He wasn't saying these are things that are fixed. It didn't seem to me to be a speech
7:22
showing it was, you know, he had a fairly refreshing, slightly unbuttoned way he delivered it
7:27
It was not a speech full of new ideas and new thinking at all. Well, let me point to one because it relates to my area as well
7:34
He talked about building on our Pride in Place programme and giving more power to communities
7:38
Now, what I'm going to do is I'm going to take what was in the Prime Minister's speech and I'm going to do more work over coming weeks and months
7:45
For somebody listening, what does that actually mean in their lives? Well, I mean, I wrote a fantastic piece by Matthew Saeed in The Times over the weekend
7:51
where he was talking about a small town that had been abandoned for decades
7:57
The high street was falling into disrepair. Jobs and opportunities were not available
8:01
What we are doing is investing money in those towns for our fair funding formula
8:06
They're getting funding they were denied before. We're developing and announcing in the next few weeks a high street strategy
8:11
as to how we get more footfall on those high streets. We're talking about with Wes's 10-year plan for health
8:16
how we get more access to health care in the middle of those high streets and how we train people up
8:22
Keir was talking about the youth guarantee, how we train young people up to take advantage
8:26
of those big jobs of the future in AI and IT. I guess the problem is..
8:30
And how we spread that out across the whole country. I mean, with the greatest respect, Steve, this is quite familiar
8:34
and it's been around for a while and it has not moved the dial at all in your favour so far
8:39
Well, I don't think it is that familiar. You could argue that bigger thinking and bigger changes are now desperately needed
8:44
I think reviving towns that have been left to die for decades is a very big thing
8:48
If you speak to the people that live in those... If it actually happens. Well, of course people are going to remain rightly sceptical until they see the change
8:55
You know, we've invested... We're bringing forward £20 million for nearly 300 of our poorest communities in this country
9:03
They haven't seen that change yet. But it is committed, and we're setting up the neighbourhood board
9:07
so that local people can take the decisions about how that money is spent not politicians like me That a massive difference That power to people in their own communities I just pointing out that people haven noticed so far Because it hasn happened yet
9:21
As with so many things, it hasn't happened yet. Let me ask you about the politics of all of this
9:26
because you know that a lot of your colleagues in the Commons are coming out one by one in groups and drabs
9:32
quite a few now, more than a 50, saying it's time for the Prime Minister to step aside
9:36
and allow an orderly transition, whatever the phrase is. Meanwhile, the bond markets are getting more and more tough
9:43
The cost of borrowing for the British government is rising more or less hour by hour
9:48
and our fiscal position is even more perilous than it was when Liz Truss was Prime Minister
9:53
How concerned are you that this entire replace Keir Starmer episode, if that's what it is
9:59
is damaging Britain in a fundamental way? It's one of the reasons why this won't happen
10:04
because if the Labour Party were to go down the route of a leadership election
10:09
at a time of a global economic and security crisis, that would be spending four months where there would be complete uncertainty
10:17
about what kind of government we would end up with. We've already got very high levels of borrowing
10:23
because of the level of indebtedness we inherited from the previous government
10:27
If we spook the bond markets and the cost of that borrowing goes up
10:31
it will lead to higher inflation, it will lead to higher interest rates, That will lead to higher mortgages. People will start losing their jobs. We cannot do that
10:39
This party will not repeat the mistakes of the Conservatives when they doom scroll through leaders
10:44
We will focus on the things we were elected to change in July 2024
10:49
You mentioned the Conservatives and Conservatives and some reform people are saying under their breath that we could be quite close to the kind of national meltdown that forces a general election
10:59
I don't believe that at all. I think we're having a few days where a lot of people are feeling very frustrated and angry
11:07
about the council election results, seeing a lot of their friends and colleagues lose their positions
11:13
And let's be frank about the prime minister. We've come through this before. We've come through this before
11:16
Well, you can blame the prime minister. Another prime minister would be in exactly the same position
11:21
attacked by social media in the way that this prime minister has been. we need to focus not on the individual, but on the programme and the agenda that is starting to transform lives for people
11:31
The biggest amount of social and council house building in a generation, rights for renters that we've not seen again in a generation in this country
11:38
You're right, Steve Reid, thank you very much indeed for coming in. Thank you. And now in the very latest It's Not Going to Happen news, in the last few minutes we've got the first resignations from the government
11:48
Tom Rutland from the Environment Secretary's team, West Treating's Parliamentary Private Secretary Joe Morris
11:54
and Sally Jamieson from the Home Office have also called for Keir Starmer to go
11:59
Now, I said it was fast-moving tonight, and that now brings the number of people calling for him to step down to, I think, around 60
12:05
So let's hear now from one of the Labour grandees the party certainly still listens to
12:10
the former Home Secretary, Lord David Blunkett. David, very good to have you on the show
12:15
I noticed over the weekend you said that the Prime Minister's speech is going to have to be good enough
12:20
if he's not going to walk away. Was it good enough? I think it depends whether you are vehemently against or vehemently in favor of Keir Starmer
12:33
And I'm a critical friend. And I thought that the speech was very good
12:42
I thought the content was slightly off. You talked to Steve Reid about Europe
12:48
I agree with every word that Keir Starmer said, including about a realignment with Europe
12:54
But actually, that wasn't the issue last week. And, you know, if we're hitting the wrong buttons, then we're not going to get those people back who voted in very large numbers because the turnout for a local election was very high
13:10
Those people who voted for reform or green. I'm particularly worried that we're in the middle of a mess that you've half described
13:22
which is that people aren't wielding a dagger, but they are wounding to the point where this
13:31
has an impact on the bond markets and the running of government. And it's not just the markets
13:37
It's the operation of the civil service, a sleeping giant, too much sleeping and not enough giant
13:46
Yeah absolutely This is an agonising position really for the country as well as the prime minister Are we now at the stage David where he should go No I think we at the stage where people have to put up or shut up
13:59
That's what I wrote in the Sunday Times yesterday. I said it..
14:06
..a similar challenge. And that means either there's a collective understanding, having looked over the cliff edge, as one person once described it all those years ago
14:20
and pulled back, but with Keir operating in an entirely different way
14:25
liberating good cabinet colleagues to do the job more vigorously, more directly
14:32
more radically than they've been doing it so far, or actually to come forward with a challenge, with a timetable that would not damage the country
14:41
And it's not for me. I'm not the brutus. I'm not elected
14:45
And I'm not going to tell my elected colleagues in the Commons what to do
14:49
But we can't stagger on until next year. We simply can't. Sure
14:55
Because we'll damage. It would be fine if we were in opposition
14:59
because we've done it before in opposition. We could have a go at ourselves and people would look on in horror
15:05
But it wouldn't affect the country and the country standing abroad. We're not. We're the government
15:11
It appears to me, and, you know, we're both old lags, you're an older lag than me, but we've watched a few of these things in the past
15:18
It seems to me there is a kind of fatal crumbling going on tonight
15:22
We've lost another three junior ministers. Yeah, PPSs. PPSs have come out
15:28
And what is the role of the cabinet in this kind of situation
15:32
Should there be a really full and frank discussion around the cabinet table now
15:37
Well, we don't have the old guard, men in gray suits that the Tories used to have
15:42
You remember, it's always written up that a few cabinet ministers would go and see the prime minister
15:48
and tell him or her that it was all up. That isn't the nature of the Labour Party or the Labour government
15:57
I think the danger is that people aren't talking to each other because they're fearful that they will be labeled
16:05
So if somebody goes up to a fellow cabinet minister and says, what can we do to actually strengthen KIA
16:12
And the person they're talking to is on the verge of going for an internal election
16:21
Where does that leave them? So they're all over the place, is my view
16:25
And I'm hoping that after the King's speech on Wednesday, because nothing's going to happen tomorrow
16:31
after the King's speech on Wednesday, a major formal occasion, there should be a real understanding
16:39
Keir needs to see individual cabinet ministers one by one, and they need to tell the truth about where they stand
16:49
And then we'll see where we go. So in a sense, you're right at the men in grey suits stage
16:55
but in a Labour Party way. Well, yeah, the Labour Party doesn't have the same mechanism
17:01
By the way, we've never had regicide in the same way as the Tories have
17:06
I mean, time after time, we've stuck with leaders when things have gone badly wrong
17:11
until they themselves have decided to stand down. Or they've got fed up with the pressure like Tony did with Gordon Brown
17:20
But Tony was in for 10 glorious years, and we're talking about nearly two
17:26
I know. Would it be fair to characterise your message, your suggestion to cabinet ministers, sort this out by the end of the week
17:34
I think in terms of stabilizing things now or setting a timetable, it's got to be one or the other, because otherwise we'll stagger on through the summer with sniping, griping, with pulling down, not just here, but you've already got it, haven't you
17:53
people sniping at potential other candidates and manoeuvres which are frankly bizarre at the moment
18:02
about my good friend, and he is my friend, he was a member of my ministerial team, Andy Burnham
18:08
coming back in circumstances where there is no safe Labour seat in Britain anymore. That was the
18:15
message on Thursday. And people who only live in or only represent London need to get out here
18:22
a bit. David, it's always good to hear your advice. It's always sage advice. Thank you very
18:28
very much for giving it again tonight
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