Up next in 10
Four Labour MPs quite as Government aides after more than 70 sign letter telling Keir Starmer to resign as PM. Ben Kentish is joined by Labour MP for Welwyn Hatfield, Andrew Lewin, to discuss his collection of colleagues that are calling for the PM to step down. The problems are mounting for the Prime Minister, after a dismal showing at last week's local elections in which Labour lost more than 1,400 councillors. On an evening of quick-moving political developments, it is said that Starmer is also being told to go by some within his own Cabinet. It has been reported that senior ministers, including Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood, are bidding Sir Keir to set a timeline for his departure. But earlier today, a defiant Sir Keir said he took “responsibility” for the losses but would fight on. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #starmer #ukpolitics #labour #resignation #primeminister #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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in a really significant development in the last couple of hours
0:03
Reports in Westminster tonight that four cabinet ministers have been in Downing Street this evening to tell the Prime Minister
0:09
that he does indeed need to announce that he's standing down. And I think that is a game changer
0:15
That means there is now a very real prospect that at tomorrow morning's cabinet meeting
0:19
more of Keir Starmer's top team will tell the Prime Minister he needs to resign
0:24
As Boris Johnson put it, when the herd moves, it moves. And tonight the Prime Minister is facing a stampede of his own MPs telling him he needs to go
0:35
What began as a trickle over the weekend has become a torrent. A fifth of the entire parliamentary Labour Party has now said time is up for Keir Starmer
0:44
And the big change tonight, as I say, is that members of Keir Starmer's cabinet seems to have reached the same conclusion
0:50
So we've heard from a lot of Labour MPs. I suspect in the days to come we might hear from some of the cabinet too
0:55
But I want to hear your thoughts this evening on whether you think those MPs calling for Starmer to go have got this one right
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Or whether they're perhaps being a little bit premature. Because yes, clearly last week's local election results were disastrous
1:09
They were historically catastrophic for the Labour Party. But is yet another change in Prime Minister really what this country needs
1:18
Or are allies of Keir Starmer right today to say, look, yes, he accepts he's made mistakes
1:23
He's going to put them right. he deserves more time don't plunge the country into yet more chaos
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of yet another party leadership contest should Starmer go or should he stay at least for now in your view
1:38
0345 6060 973 as always the number for your thoughts on that
1:43
had a lot of Labour MPs I've spoken to a lot of Labour MPs today I want to speak to you
1:46
I want to hear from you about whether you think it's time for Keir Starmer to go
1:51
or given it is less than two years since he was elected with a resounding House of Commons majority
1:59
has the Westminster bubble and the Parliamentary Labour Party slightly lost the plot in the last few days
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That number once more, 0345 6060973. Pick up the program right now
2:11
Let me know your thoughts. Should Starmer go? Should he stay at least for now? Come to your calls in a few minutes' time
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Let's talk first tonight to Andrew Lewin, Labour MP for Wellin Hatfield
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Great to have you on the programme, Mr Lewin. Thanks for coming on. And should Keir Starmer quit? Because more and more of your colleagues
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seem to think that his time is up. Evening. Good evening, Ben. Thank you for having me
2:29
I'm a big supporter of the Prime Minister. I absolutely don't think that he should quit
2:33
And my message to colleagues has been consistent throughout the day. Just last week, we had a local election campaign
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in which Nigel Farage, our most dangerous and principal opponent, was touring the country saying
2:45
vote reform to get Starmer out And if people follow through with this then Nigel Farage will have been granted exactly what he wanted We will be plunged into a chaotic leadership contest I don think that
2:58
good for the Labour Party, and I certainly don't think that is good for the country. But you talk about Nigel Farage. A lot of your colleagues, Andrew, have concluded that the biggest
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threat, the biggest sort of risk of Nigel Farage becoming Prime Minister is the complete and utter
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incompetence that is currently blighting the top of your party. look it's not an ysis that i uh share at all we have achieved a lot in our first two years in
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office just lost 1500 council seats that's the worst set of local election results for the
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labor party in 100 years how can you conclude that kia starma isn't a risk of handing the keys to
3:32
downing street to nigel farage look there was there was seriously disappointing local election
3:36
results i mean no doubt about that um i had tough election results in my in my patch we won some of
3:41
our fights against reform. We lost others in Welland Hatfield. But I know that the public
3:49
votes differently in a local election to a general election. I've had far more emails from my
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constituents today saying, stick with the Prime Minister than the other way round. And we do have
3:57
to think here about what this means for the country. This is a very high stakes moment
4:03
The Iran ceasefire is incredibly brittle. In a few weeks' time, the announcement on the next
4:08
energy price cap will be made. I want my Prime Minister and my government focused on deeming..
4:13
But you might, but you talk about the country that the opinion polls suggest that the majority
4:17
of voters want Keir Starmer gone. So are the majority of voters wrong
4:22
Well, the majority of voters at the moment are not saying they are going to vote for the Labour
4:26
Party, but a good number of people who are Labour supporters want the Prime Minister to stay on
4:30
I've met people who haven't voted Labour recently. But more want him to quit. That's the point, isn't it? So either the electorate has got this wrong
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in saying Keir Starmer's not up to the job he needs to go, or you're wrong
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Well, then I would say it's not a surprise if you're a reform supporter or a Conservative supporter
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that you're saying you want the Prime Minister to go because you want maximum chaos
4:51
The point is, let me just go on that, the point is that the reform supporters you're talking about
4:56
a lot of them two years ago were Labour supporters. And the reason they're no longer Labour supporters
5:00
is in no small part because of Keir Starmer. Well, there's a few leaps there
5:06
But let's just take it back to what is playing out now. I've heard reform MPs and supporters take to the airwaves to say
5:15
oh, this means we must have a general election because, you know, the Labour Party hasn't got a grip and it can't govern
5:21
And that is precisely why I think this is completely the wrong moment
5:25
to change the leadership of the party and the country. People want stability. Yes, they want us to deliver more
5:31
NHS waiting this down, minimum wage is up. We've done lots of good things. I know there is impatience for further change but I don think there is a desire in the country for the chaos of a loser I don know if you a football fan Andrew but if you are and your team is losing week after week after week and you are very very very much at risk of being relegated from whichever division that you in you know you change the manager don you You say
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this isn't working. We have to make a change. Give someone else a go. So why is it any different in
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this case? I am a football fan. I think the managers that do best tend to be the ones where
6:03
the board's got patience in them. And if we think, if we carry on the footballing ogy
6:06
we're not halfway through the season yet. We're barely two years into a five-year parliament
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Keir's an Arsenal fan, Nico Arteta didn't have the best start and now he's on the verge
6:18
of winning the league and the champions. That's true. But to continue this ogy, perhaps slightly longer than we should do
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I'd put it to you that you're halfway through the season, you're bottom of the league
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you're 12 points adrift and you're telling me you've got the right man for the job. Well, I would say we're mid-table
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We've done some good things and we've made some mistakes and if we stick with the leader or the manager
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You've got the most unpopular prime minister in history. You've just suffered your worst results in a century
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And what planet are you mid-table? I mean, look, we can take this football ogy so far
6:47
But I mean, look, seriously, of course the local elections were a real setback for us
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But it is important to say we still, as the party, were the second biggest in terms of councillors elected just last week
6:58
I met a lot of people in my patch and spoken to colleagues who said, look, there is a very big anti-reform groundswell
7:06
People want to unite behind a progressive party. We've got work to do, a lot of work to do to win back voters who we've lost in recent times to the Greens
7:14
But I think this is a fight that we can win, but we're going to make it a lot harder if we get rid of our prime minister now
7:21
Why do you think he has become so deeply, deeply unpopular, Andrew, so quickly
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Because, you know, as I said in my introduction, it's only two years ago that he was leading the party to a historic election win
7:30
And he's now, as I say, the most unpopular prime minister on record. Why do you think that is
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well look politics is is changed as a society changed we live in a society dominated by social
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media and quick and instant takes and quick judgments and that's a challenge that we're
7:48
all having to adapt to i also think there was just such impatience for change after 14 years
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the conservatives and i do stand by some of our achievements with nhs waiting lists going down
7:58
minimum wage rising the employment rights act all good things but i get why people want us to go
8:04
further and faster. I just am not of the view that changing the leader is going to is going to
8:09
result. Is he capable of what you're talking about though? Because if we accept the sort of the
8:14
the you know the prognosis that what you need to do is change the country more radically than
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the government has done so far. Keir Starmer's not a radical he's not a visionary he's not he's not
8:23
bold he stood up this morning and talked about the need for radical change without announcing a
8:27
single policy that constituted radical change So is he capable of delivering what you want him to deliver Well I think he is I give you one example Colleagues who know me in Parliament know that from day one I was making a case for a stronger UK relationship He made that centrepiece of his speech today I pleased to see him talking
8:47
up the importance of a youth mobility deal, talking about being at the heart of Europe
8:52
He's a Prime Minister who's always been pro-European. I think that meets the moment
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because with Trump in the White House, people are looking, again, at the importance of our
9:01
alliances in the EU. Let me ask, that's a really good example for me of Keir Starmer saying, look
9:06
you know, we need to be closer to the EU and then announcing a policy that basically amounts to
9:10
tinkering. I mean, you know, you've just had your worst results in 100 years. And here's the Prime
9:15
Minister sort of responded to that by talking about young people being doing summer jobs in
9:19
France. It doesn't match the scale of the crisis that your party is in. Well, what he also said
9:25
in answer to the questions from journalists, he was specifically asked, are you going to rule out
9:30
joining the single market or the customs union in your manifesto next time around
9:34
And he said no. And he said that what we achieve in the summit, which is just a matter of weeks away, by the way
9:40
should be a platform for closer integration and closer ties. And after the damage that Brexit has done to the economy
9:46
I think that's exactly the right place to be. Just lastly, let's talk about
9:50
obviously a lot of your backbench colleagues are pretty unhappy tonight with the Prime Minister. Reports, Andrew, that four cabinet ministers have been in Downing Street this evening
9:57
telling the Prime Minister he needs to quit. what do you say to them you know there's a big cabinet minister taking a cabinet meeting taking
10:03
place tomorrow morning what would you like to see the cabinet doing um in this situation
10:08
i'd like the cabinet to put the national interest first and i i sincerely believe that the national
10:15
interest is is stability with the prime minister that we have i've only just learned of those
10:20
reports as as we've come on uh tonight well my message to colleagues of whatever seniority and
10:27
experience is the same as the one that I opened with, is that this is what Nigel Farage wanted
10:32
and actively told the country, vote reform to get Starmer out. I don't want to give a gift to our
10:37
most serious and principal opponent. And I think it will be a really serious mistake that we will
10:42
come to regret. Really appreciate it, Tom. Thank you very much, indeed, for coming on the programme. That's Andrew Lewin, Labour MP for Wellin Hatfield
10:49
making a pretty solid, I think, defence of the Prime Minister. He is on the dwindling list
10:55
of Labour MPs that are willing to do that. And that number is shrinking by the hour
11:01
But maybe you agree with Andrew. Maybe you think, yeah, absolutely. You're not a huge fan of Keir Starmer
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Or maybe you are. But the last thing that we need right now
11:09
is yet another change in Prime Minister. Because there is an argument that says
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whatever you think of this government and the person in charge of it, the man in charge of it, having our seventh Prime Minister
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our sixth Prime Minister, in the last seven years, is nuts. It's a sign of a country that politically has completely lost it
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