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Labour MP Catherine West joins Lewis Goodall to explain why she's making a break for leadership following Labour's election defeat. The Hornsey and Friern Barnet MP said on Saturday she would rather see a frontbencher take on Sir Keir Starmer after the party’s humiliating defeat in the local elections. Sir Keir has taken responsibility for the devastating losses but has vowed not to “walk away and plunge the country into chaos” despite growing pressure. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #lewisgoodall #keirstarmer #labour #leadership #elections #ukpolitics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
We've talked a lot actually about the North and the Midlands and really quite catastrophic results, you know, wipeouts that we've seen in a lot of those places
0:06
Presumably your own decision this weekend has been contextualised and coloured and prompted by the also pretty catastrophic losses to the Greens in this case that Labour has seen in parts of London, not all of London, but parts of London
0:19
That's right. I mean, I think there is a sort of incumbency effect, which means when you're in government nationally, you will lose some support locally
0:26
So we were prepared for some losses in London, but not to the extent of council leaders who are very well respected losing their seats in very labour wards, such as in Keir's own backyard, which was in Camden, and, you know, in my patch as well, in very traditionally very safe seats like Wood Green, etc
0:47
So the scale of the challenge for us, it isn't just about left, right or city countryside
0:53
It's actually about laying down our values and our commitment to working people across the whole of the UK
1:00
We also saw Elianud Morgan in Wales losing her seat. And of course, in Scotland, the leader there having to concede defeat after about five minutes inside the counting hall
1:10
So this was a very bad day for us. and we have to basically pick ourselves up
1:14
and we need a timetable for an orderly leadership change. Because you think the problem ultimately rests with the Prime Minister
1:23
I think it's not just about the personality of our leader. It's also about the whole approach, you know
1:28
because you need a proper communications approach. And at the moment, not just he individually
1:36
but our whole communications machinery seems to be dysfunctional. And also we need to repair the relationship with the civil service, which is the machinery of government, which makes your policies actually come into being and work
1:49
How long have you been thinking about doing this? Well, I've had my reservations about Kia's leadership style for quite a while now
1:57
We love the fact that he made us electable again between 2020 and 2024 and with the fantastic smashing result that we got in 2024
2:07
But the next challenge for the Labour Party is not actually just getting over the line
2:14
The next challenge for the Labour Party is to take on the machine of the Reform Party
2:18
which gets gifts of £5 million from goodness knows where and has probably already spent that money to get councillors elected in different parts of the UK
2:29
At the moment, we're not even putting a glove on Nigel Farage. Well, to be clear, the £5 million was a personal gift to him
2:35
They've received £12 million from the same sort. We're currently under investigation and we need to know how that £5 million was spent
2:42
But they're the questions we should be talking about, not obsessing about the detail of individual candidates, etc
2:49
Well, Catherine West, to respect you, you're the one who's challenged the Prime Minister
2:52
So if you didn't want to make it about personalities, maybe you shouldn't have challenged the Prime Minister or said you're going to
2:56
I think let me explain It a very simple ysis here Tomorrow the Prime Minister is going to make a speech By the way I think he should have made it on Saturday because there another 48 hours
3:08
he's missed to get his message across, which to me seems to be a sort of inertia and paralysis
3:14
that seems to have gripped the top of the party. But in any case, tomorrow he's going to make
3:19
a speech. And if I am unconvinced that the party machinery is going to act
3:26
then I will have to ask parliamentary colleagues by email for their names
3:31
I've had plenty of informal support, but I actually don't want this to happen
3:35
What I want is for the cabinet to get into a room this afternoon or at some point tonight
3:40
and say to Keir Starmer, we've got a role for you. Then we wouldn't have to have a leadership election, you see
3:47
because then we could just have an agreement amongst our top team
3:51
that we will put in somebody else to lead the party. and Keir could perhaps do something in international affairs
3:58
He's very able. But surely there would have to be a leadership election. Well, not necessarily
4:03
because if the Cabinet could agree to have an internal reshuffle... But given that the Cabinet have got a fair few pretenders to the throne
4:09
what are the chances that they coalesce around someone... I think the bigger problem is the Cabinet hasn't even met since Thursday
4:14
To me, that does not show political strength, leadership or courage, and that's why I, as a backbencher
4:20
have had to come forward and do what I'm doing. John McDonnell, I don't know if you've seen this, has said this morning
4:26
Catherine West is reflecting the upset in our constituency where so many seats were lost
4:30
but I don't think this is the right approach. We need to discuss how we go forward, and I worry some in the shadows want to exploit her concerns
4:37
and bounce us before we have a proper democratic process. What do you say to him
4:41
Well, what I've asked is actually for the chair of the party, who is in control of the actual timetable of any future leadership election
4:49
to come forward with that timetable, which would also mean I wouldn't have to actually trigger
4:55
my own request for people to support me. So what I'm hoping is that the chair of the party
5:01
who I know well, who's a very good friend, to put forward the timetable for a leadership election
5:08
so that we can have that debate, we can hear all the runners and riders, we can have a debate about who is the best person
5:14
to create the leadership team to take on Nigel Farage. I mean theoretically there is a world where you are the candidate against Keir Starmer because you might get the 80 names that you need and you might end up plunging the Labour Party into a leadership contest almost by accident and obviously no one with respect had expected that you would be the main opponent
5:37
So have you thought about how you'd run that campaign or what your ideas would be or what your policy proposals might be
5:42
Let's take this one step at a time. Keir Starmer is to give a speech tomorrow
5:47
and it may be that he gives such an overwhelmingly positive response that we can then get behind him and we can say
5:55
he's the man to take on Nigel Farage in two weeks. So you might not challenge him? I want to be fair and listen to what the Prime Minister has to say tomorrow Should that fail the expectations of Labour supporters Labour people then I expect the chair of the party to come forward with an orderly timetable
6:16
so that we can have an organised way of testing the different people
6:23
who could stand to be the leader and create the top team
6:28
which will take on Nigel Farage in the coming two years so that by the next general election
6:33
we can be successful and represent working people. The working people of this country need to have that Labour voice
6:40
which traditionally has represented them in Parliament and in places of power
6:45
And at the moment, we're not being listened to. We need to earn the right to be listened to
6:49
But I mean, I don't want to say this respectfully as possible, Catherine West
6:54
but is it not a danger? this all seems a little bit half-baked. I mean, you just said there that, you know
6:59
you said you're going to challenge, but then the Prime Minister might give a speech, which means you might not challenge
7:04
You're setting down these sort of rather arbitrary deadlines. I mean, I know that I think you told the New Statesman
7:08
that you hadn't even looked at the rules because I don't actually want to do this
7:13
Why are you plunging the party into some degree of confusion when you haven't even looked at the rules for the leadership contest
7:19
What is important is that we have the top team, which is capable and ready to take on Nigel Farage in the next general election
7:29
That is the next big electoral contest for the Labour Party. And to do that, we need to have the right team in place
7:36
which is led by the right people. And what I'm doing is I'm having the debate myself and with the press
7:43
and I've had a lot of interest and I've had a lot of personal messages as well
7:48
but we do need people to stand up now who will lead us forward if..
7:54
Do you not think there's a danger that looks a bit self-indulgent? If Pierre Starr's speech tomorrow fails to impress
7:59
Is there a bit of a danger with you saying, well, this is my deadline and if this hasn't happened
8:04
this is what I expect the PRP chair to do? I mean, you are just one backbencher
8:08
Is there not a danger that it looks a little bit self-indulgent? I think the important thing is that we focus on the message
8:14
that was sent to us last Thursday. The message sent to us last Thursday, as Kim has said, who I'm sure was out like me until 9.55pm, knocking on doors and asking them to vote for us
8:24
The message was not overwhelming. It was either staying at home, which is a way of voting with their feet, or it was voting for a different party
8:34
You didn't even look at the rules. What's important is to have the top team that we need
8:39
And I am having the debate and other people are supporting me quietly
8:43
but what's really important is to give the Prime Minister a chance tomorrow
8:47
so that he can come forward with his speech. We all get to listen to it
8:52
It's a speech to the nation and then following that we will decide
8:55
but there has to be this orderly process because I think MPs like me
9:01
we have very strong feelings after an election but we do speak to hundreds of voters over the six short campaign of an election So it very important that we listen to those voices and that we match the skills which are
9:14
required for the leadership for the next general election and that we think about that so we can
9:20
get a second term for the Labour Party. Is anyone talking to you about this from the Cabinet
9:26
Have you spoken to West Streeting about it, for example? No, I'm not making commentary on any
9:30
runners and riders. There's all sorts of people whose names are in the frame
9:34
But no one from the cabinet has spoken to you about it. I have spoken to the Chief Whip to explain to him so that I'm not going behind anyone's back
9:41
my concerns. And I'm hoping that people will be looking forward to this timetable
9:48
so that they can declare themselves for the competition which is to come
9:53
and they can lay out how they will take the fight to Nigel Farage
9:57
But there isn't a competition. Well, this is what we will decide following the speech tomorrow
10:03
and the response of the party chair who will have to lay out the timetable for an orderly transition
10:10
Some people must be quite upset with you within the party. What I care about is working people being represented
10:16
both in Parliament and local authorities, in mayoralties, so that we can push forward on the important work we are doing
10:24
to build more social homes, to help families with the cost of living
10:29
to help families with their school meals, school uniforms, which are so expensive
10:34
and we can help people in the workplace because that's where working people tell us
10:38
they want Labour to be active. And at the moment, we're not getting our message out because our messengers don't seem to be able
10:44
to get the message across. And what about those who would very much like Andy Burnham
10:48
to be in Parliament, to be part of this contest, but are concerned that as a result of what they would see
10:53
as precipitous action, that he won't be able to stay apart in that contest. I'm not commenting on any runners and riders
10:58
But when the timetable is published... You're unilaterally trying to shape this contest
11:03
When the timetable is published, people who would like to stand, including some women, by the way, I hope
11:10
because the Labour Party has a great many very able women and sometimes the obvious people who are in the press all the time
11:19
don't end up being successful because maybe they're not listening to the right voices
11:23
but certainly we will have an opportunity when the time comes for people to lay out their stall
11:29
and we can get the top team in place which can take us to the next general election
11:34
And you described yourself as a lone wolf and a stalking horse. I haven't described myself as that
11:39
Other people have described me as that. The New Statesman said you said that you were a lone wolf
11:42
and a stalking horse. I think other people have described me as that
11:47
But you are acting, well I suppose that's getting at it, you're acting alone
11:51
I am. No part of any... I'm not part of a group. I'm not part of a clique. I don't do the tea room as much as other people
11:59
I don't do the bars in Westminster. But I do know, having been a leader of a council
12:04
how it feels when you have a bad election result and you feel that the top is not listening
12:08
and we need the top to listen
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