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I'm very grateful that you've stepped in where the cabinet has failed because Liz Kendall, despite speaking to other channels, for some reason won't speak to GB News
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So we're so grateful that you have shown some courage and bravery during what is a pretty difficult weekend for Labour and indeed the prime minister
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What's your verdict, Mr Hayes? Because there's two choices when it comes to what Starmer knew about the vetting and Mandelson and his decision making
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he's either lying and therefore a crook or he didn't know and therefore is an idiot
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Well, it's lovely to be with you and thank you for having me on. It's neither of those options
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It's the fact that we have a bonkers system where you can have a security vetting failure
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that foreign office officials override that and in overriding it don't provide the prime minister
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the foreign secretary and number 10 with that information. That clearly had to stop. So the
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Prime Minister ensured it stopped. The rules were changed on Friday and there will be no more
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overrides of security vetting failures. The Prime Minister is coming to Parliament on Monday
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to update the House of Commons and there'll be plenty of opportunities for questions there too
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Hang on a minute, Mr Hayes, you're stretching the bounds of my credulity right now and I do
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appreciate the impassioned defence of your esteemed leader, but let's be perfectly honest
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From the moment Peter Mandelson was appointed, suspicions and concerns were raised
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Indeed, when we saw what the Prime Minister was given in terms of his links to Jeffrey Epstein
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it had included this really long 2,500-word piece that I'd contributed to for the Telegraph
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So people are scratching their heads at the point of appointment. They're scratching their heads once the Prime Minister knew
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what he then found out about the links to Epstein and others. He has confidence in Mandelson one day, sacks him the next
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Throughout that whole period from when Mandelson left office, September, to now
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he has had to go before Parliament, go before press conferences, go before the public
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to talk about due process being followed. Are you seriously suggesting that this former director of public prosecutions
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was so incurious that he carried on parroting this line without asking any questions of any officials about whether the vetting had actually been successful
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That is beyond the bounds of credibility. I'm sorry, Mr Hayes. Well, let's talk about the bounds of credibility here because you're pulling together two things
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The first is the security vetting failure, the overriding of what the prime minister
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knew and then separately the appointment and the performance of Mandelson as the ambassador to Washington On the first as I set out the prime minister did not know On the second the Prime Minister has made clear that had he known about Mandelson horrific relationship with Epstein he would not have appointed him
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So there are two simple answers there that I think it's probably a good idea to separate out
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But if you want to talk about incuriosity, and I think this is really important, I don't know if you saw the breaking news today, really important breaking news
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that I don't think GB News has covered, which is that people are going to work every single day
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they're working hard, they're paying taxes, they're probably rightly unhappy in some respects
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about the level of tax they're paying. That tax could come down if people elsewhere pay their taxes
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and Richard Tice dodged £100,000 of tax payment. He put that, as a consequence of his investment company, into reform
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This is extraordinary whataboutery, Mr Hayes, honestly. It's not. If you think it's whataboutery to dodge tax and not cover it..
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This is absolutely ridiculous. We're talking about the Prime Minister. No, I'm not talking about Richard Tice right now
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I'm talking about the Prime Minister. No, you're not. That's the problem. GB News aren't talking about Richard Tice or his non-payment of tax
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Part that right now, because I believe that Mr Tice denies that story and is potentially issuing legal warnings about it
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This is extraordinary. I want to talk about the Prime Minister. First of all, you're wrong
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Of course you do. You don't want to talk about Richard Tice not paying his tax. Why don't you want to talk about Richard Tice not paying his tax
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Are you for real? Are you seriously trying to make a story about the Prime Minister being on the brink
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possibly facing either being sacked or resigning next week? To respect its viewers and to cover all stories that they would find interesting
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Mr Hayes, have you ever known me to not cover stories that are negative about the thought
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They don't want to pay more tax than they need to, and they're paying more tax because he's not paying his. OK, let's just reconstitute this before, frankly, you really embarrass yourself
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We're going to talk about the Prime Minister. I'm going to ask you questions and you're going to answer them
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You're not asking me the questions because I'm the journalist and you're the politician. You're now defending the Prime Minister
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Now, he did know... You're the journalist. You should be covering long stories. He did know that Peter Mandelson was linked to Jeffrey Epstein
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We know he knew that because we know he was given an article by The Telegraph, which I co-wrote
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laying bare the absolutely close relationship between Peter Mandelson and Jeffrey Epstein
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So, unfortunately, that argument fails. He's either misled Parliament knowingly or unknowingly
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But whatever the case, he's misled Parliament, hasn't he? You aren't writing any articles about whether Richard Tice
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is paying his tax or not I note But on that question about what Parliament knows Parliament on Monday will hear from the Prime Minister There be plenty of opportunities for MPs to ask questions There are further Prime Minister questions to take place
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And on Friday, when the Prime Minister went to the country via the media, he told what he knew and he was asked questions then too
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On Friday, he was in Paris bringing together world leaders to tackle the problems in our country arising from the Straits of Amoo's closing
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because we had Donald Trump launch that optional war. I'll tell you what the Prime Minister knew
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I tell you what the Prime Minister knew, Mr Hayes, very disturbingly
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This is what the Prime Minister knew on Tuesday. The Prime Minister knew on Tuesday that Peter Mandelson had failed the vetting
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and that everything he had said to Parliament and the public, including an exchange with Kemi Badenock on February 4th
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and then a press conference in Hastings on February 5th, was wrong
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He did not think to mention this to the House of Commons on Wednesday at Prime Minister's Questions
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What's his excuse for that? Well, that's a great question. Let's get into that
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If you as Prime Minister are not told about the failure in security vetting or the override
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and then you do find out, what are you going to do? You're going to wonder what the hell is going on
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You're going to wonder why you had information kept from you. So he instructed his Cabinet Secretary to assemble the facts
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And once those facts were assembled, he's then going to Parliament. He had the facts
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Parliament doesn't sit on Friday. We were all in our constituencies. On Monday, he'll be coming to the House of Commons
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And I hope to see you cover it. This is an extraordinary attempt to gaslight me and the British public
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He had the facts on Tuesday. He knew on Tuesday, Mr Hayes, that Peter Mandelson had failed the vetting
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Why on earth didn't he think to mention that to the House of Commons that he's now accused of misleading, either knowingly or unknowingly
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on Wednesday at PMQs? He knew the night before. Let's go in the roundabout again
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which is that he had the facts given to him at that point and he wanted to road test them, assemble all of the facts
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and make sure the House of Commons has all the information that is accurate and that it needs to know on Monday
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Is that not what you want? Do you not want the House of Commons to be told all of the accurate facts
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to have everything out in the public domain that could be? It took a couple of days for him to get the Cabinet Secretary
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to assemble that information. Parliament wasn't sitting on Friday. It is a Monday
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He's coming to the House of Commons on Monday. So let's get away from these process questions around what he knew, whether he came to the
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House of Commons, because he's coming on Monday with all of the facts. This is brilliant
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You want me to get away... You're trying to create a political storm here for party political advantage, I suspect
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You want me to get away from process questions when the Prime Minister entire defence to this Farago is I followed the process Due process was followed The process the process the process The truth
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of the matter, Mr Hayes, and I know it's uncomfortable for you this morning, but everybody
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watching TV News and listening... Your dispose shock is incredible. No, everybody listening and watching this thinks that this is a complete and utter disgrace
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Why can't you take responsibility for the fact that if he isn't a knave and if he isn't a fool, then he's a downright hypocrite
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Because we all remember how he treated Boris Johnson during Partygate. Let's look at one of the quotes
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He said to Boris Johnson, why does the PM think everybody else's actions have consequences except his own
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He's throwing repeated members of staff under the bus, Olly Robbins, Sue Gray, Morgan McSweeney
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Why won't he take responsibility, Mr Hayes? Shall I answer that question
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I think there's a huge difference between the Prime Minister being denied the information he needs once he assembles it
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going to the House of Commons on Monday, and Boris Johnson, whose staff has parted in Downing Street
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with suitcases of booze during the pandemic, with the Queen sitting silently and alone in a pew
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mourning her husband of many decades, whose service to our country was so great
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For any attempt to draw a false equivalence there, to be on this station is disrespectful to your viewers
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And I think you know in your heart that what you're saying there isn't equivalent, but you're pushing it out because, frankly, it will get the clicks
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And as a consequence for getting the clicks, it will help you to get more attention. But let's get back to the facts
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I mean, after this interview, I don't think I need to be helping anybody get any clicks
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because your response to what has been going on in the last 48 hours is absolutely astounding
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You're saying there's no equivalence between Prime Minister Boris Johnson being ordered by Keir Starmer to take vicarious responsibility
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for the actions of his staff, and this situation where the current Prime Minister
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is refusing to take vicarious responsibility for the actions of his staff, which, by the way, is staggering
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because this guy's a former lawyer, and he knows recklessness is not a defence, Mr Hayes
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Camilla, remember that image of the Queen wearing a black face mask
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sitting alone in a pew? a lady who served our country for so many decades
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and put into that position by Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his staff
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You think there is an equivalent. We've got a problem. If I think there's an equivalence between 1pm taking responsibility
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and 1pm not taking responsibility, yes, I do. Mr Hayes, we need to leave it there
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Thank you very much indeed for joining me today. Thank you for having me on. I hope you have a good day. Thank you
