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Rachel Reeves hit back at a heckler who repeatedly shouted at her while she tried to answer questions from the media after announcing a planned increase in fuel duty would be scrapped to help consumers. 00:50 | Shelagh Fogarty argues her case for heckling 7:12 | James Hanson argues his case agains it 14:18 | Caller Paul says politicians should give hecklers the floor 19:39 | Richard says Reeves is part of the ‘snowflake’ generation 23:33 | Steve, who heckled, Tony Blair says it’s a citizen’s ‘right’ 27:13 | Zack criticises the heckler, arguing it’s ‘displaced anger’ 31:21 | Anastasia says there’s ‘no manners’ in Leeds 31:47 | Tim says a heckle is ‘public opinion in a raw state’ 34:29 | Michael says throwing abuse is ‘not acceptable’ 36:30 | Pat argues we should retain our right to heckle The Chancellor was interrupted by a man driving a truck with two St George’s flags on the roof while she gave a broadcast interview at a petrol station in Leeds on Wednesday. The heckler appeared to be a Reform UK supporter as he said “Nigel Farage, go on Nigel”, before telling her: “You’re ruining the country. Get Keir Starmer out.” Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #jameshanson #shelaghfogarty #hecklers #rachelreeves #ukpolitics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
But I recognise the impact that it has on people here in the UK
0:05
And so it is important. Shall we just wait until they've gone? Check here, Starmorough
0:11
Nigel Farage, you are Nigel. Oh, I didn't know what the politics was, but now I do
0:17
We've got British flags on and they're going to get arrested. We've got English flags on here, Rachel
0:22
We're going to get arrested. Look at Rachel Lee's there with a smile on the face
0:25
They're ruining the country. You have to be a Starmorough. I love our country
0:33
I love our country. I love our country. And one of the things about our country is good manners
0:43
It's not very British. Right. Very good. You can put that on the telly. Right
0:49
I like that bit at the end when she said put that on the telly. What I think she should have done to that guy shouting at her
0:55
is invite him to get out of his the safety of his uh his cab the cab of his truck his lorry
1:01
and get down and have a chat with her and if he didn't well the last thing is the last thing you
1:05
see is him avoiding a decent conversation with her so i i think that would have sort of redressed
1:11
the balance of it she didn't do too badly of course but i when i talk about heckles by the
1:15
way i'm talking about verbal heckling i'm not a fan of the chucking things at people i a i think
1:21
it's really really disrespectful but it can be dangerous and i think it can also be used as a
1:27
cover for something that is very dangerous indeed i.e a proper physical attack on an mp and i want to
1:32
make it clear for all the stuff i'm going to say about heckling in this hour i want to make it
1:36
really clear because i i'm a big fan of heckling um i want to make it really clear that i do not
1:42
include physical attacks of any kind on politicians when i talk about heckling i'm talking about
1:50
words only. And I'll tell you in a minute why I'm a fan of the heckle. Even if it's an ugly heckle
1:57
don't mind. I think it's a really important part of our politics. Of course, senior MPs
2:03
ministers, prime ministers even being heckled is nothing new. From two jags Prescott
2:08
punching a voter to Theresa May being handed a P45 on stage, which was genius. It's how the
2:13
politician reacts, which can define the incident. Yesterday, the Chancellor Rachel Reeves was at the
2:18
centre of a disgruntled member of the public at that petrol station forecourt in Yorkshire when
2:22
you heard it, which you just heard there. Let me give you my reasons for liking the heckle
2:27
Sometimes what I think a heckle can achieve in a politician, so to a politician, is that
2:35
you really make them feel what it is you feel and think about their policies and the impact
2:42
they're having on your lives. Now, it might not be pretty, it might not be, you know
2:46
a calm reasoned rational debate and all of those good things but i think just saying plainly to a
2:55
person with a huge amount of power and make no mistake rachel reeves has a huge amount of power
2:59
as things stand making your message plain even in a rough way which this guy did is okay not
3:06
physically rough that's never okay in my view and i'm not a fan of the throwing things either i i
3:11
for the reasons I said a few moments ago. But I think making politicians really understand
3:17
that the decisions they are making really impact people's lives. And they can say blithely in interviews with people like me
3:25
that they know that. But until somebody comes right up against them
3:29
and gives them that message very firmly, I think it's a different proposition altogether. So some examples
3:34
When Tony Blair was stopped by a woman called Sharon Storer outside Queen Elizabeth Hospital in the West Midlands
3:41
and she was giving him all four barrels about the cancer treatment her husband was getting and the
3:48
delays to it um and i thought that was fair enough and he looked shocked by it he looked
3:52
shocked by this is all just words no physical attack um rachel reeves was heckled last year's
3:58
party conference as well by a climate uh activist uh who claims he was roughed up on the way out by
4:06
security and called a weasel hey ho but he you know he had his he had his opportunity he took
4:11
his opportunity i don't blame him for doing so do you remember when we used to do a lot of outside
4:17
broadcasts on college green just opposite the houses of parliament there was a chap who kept
4:21
shouting on one particular program that i was presenting he kept shouting literally from the
4:27
beginning of the program to the end of the program on the edges of the the green that we were on i
4:32
I won't do it as loudly as he was, but he was literally bellowing, all politicians are liars
4:37
all politicians are liars. And that was a heckle of just, he was heckling the ether. But in a sense
4:43
it was heckling us as well, I suppose, because we were there. And you just had to zone it out
4:48
But he made his point. And he's not always wrong about them, is he? Boris Johnson was told to leave
4:54
Doncaster. And he went up the road to Rotherham. This is back in 2019. And he was shouted out there
4:59
as well and told austerity had killed people in this town so please leave it prime minister
5:04
but there's a there's another serious point behind heckling i think i think the the strength with
5:13
which we the electorate can communicate to the people who purportedly lead us or represent us
5:22
is really important for our democracy i think it's incredibly important and i think not only is it
5:28
about letting them feel what you feel, because I think that's, in a sense, the art of the heckle
5:32
if you land it really, really well. But I think it can change events
5:39
I'll give you the perfect example. I've mentioned this before, but not in the context of effective heckling
5:45
Andy Burnham, 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster, standing in Anfield, 35,000, 40,000 mostly Liverpool fans
5:56
there as well for the memorial service a largely you know it's a kind of calm
6:01
commemorative event quasi-religious but not massively religious although there were members of religious communities there as well as local representatives footballing representatives
6:12
and families. Andy Burnham read a statement from the then Prime Minister Gordon Brown
6:17
about the papers not being released the Hillsborough papers not being released
6:21
the crowd prompted by one heckle one heckle a man just shouted and it was very audible across
6:29
the entire stadium because the stadium was silent he bellowed you're the effing government
6:36
in full throat and he said it two or three times and then the entire crowd started to sing justice
6:43
for the 96 Andy Burnham had to stand there and take it he had no other choice and he committed
6:49
in that moment to going away and doing something about the thing that they were jeering him about
6:53
and and it worked he did he had to he had to because the statement he'd been given by gordon
7:00
brown was uh as useful as a chocolate teapot to those people and they let it be known that it
7:07
simply wasn't good enough that is a heckle and it worked i think rachel reeves is a lousy chancellor
7:15
She's raised taxes, she's raised borrowing, I don't think she has the first clue how to
7:21
turn our economy around. And I think she is worthy of as much criticism as you want to heap on her What I don think she is worthy of is abuse And when I saw that encounter in Leeds the other day
7:37
I felt something I have never felt for Rachel Reeves before. I felt sorry for her. I felt a pang of sympathy
7:46
Because for me, and I know there's a fine line between kind of legitimate criticism and verbal abuse
7:56
And I know sometimes it's hard to make out exactly where that line gets crossed
8:00
But for me, what we've just heard does cross that line. That is just verbal abuse
8:05
That is not legitimate criticism. There is nothing brave about shouting at a woman
8:12
through your van window while you drive away. In fact, I would agree with the Chancellor when she said there that it's pretty un-British
8:22
You know, the English, we used to be renowned around the world for our good manners
8:28
And I do think it is rude, and I do think it is aggressive
8:32
and I do think it does nothing to improve the tone of our public debate
8:37
Now, clearly not everyone agrees, because Nigel Farage responded on social media to that incident by posting this
8:43
I would like to buy this man a pint. Does anyone know where I can find him
8:47
So there is a divide here between those who think he was just expressing the legitimate fury
8:53
that many ordinary people have with this Labour government and with the policies of Rachel Reeves as Chancellor
8:58
and those like me who, even though, as you know, I hold no torch for this government and this Chancellor
9:05
actually think this was crossing over a line. Now, I wrote about this for the LBC app and website earlier this week
9:12
And when LBC posted this on Twitter, I got a stream of messages from people who took a very different view to me
9:20
You know, I basically think that Rachel Reeves is right. It is pretty un-British to shout abuse at her in this way
9:26
I got a stream of criticism from people going, well, first of all, they'd say
9:30
yeah, but hang on, what about Nigel Farage having milkshakes thrown at him? And I'd say, yeah, that's wrong
9:35
I clearly do not condone anyone chucking a milkshake at Nigel Farage, which has happened in the past
9:41
and I would say is clearly worse than what happened with Rachel Reeves
9:44
because that is physical abuse as opposed to just verbal abuse. I'm not going to condone any abuse of politicians
9:52
but I think we have to be consistent. And I think many of the people who say this is legitimate because it's Rachel Reeves
9:59
would take a different view if it was a politician they feel more sympathetically towards
10:04
And I think we have to be very careful about the tone of our public debate
10:08
yes you can disagree vehemently with a certain politician and I don't want to be too kind of prudish about this
10:18
and somehow advocate for a political system in which politicians are exempt from robust challenge
10:25
absolutely go up and have quite a frank conversation with an MP if you want to
10:30
but what this bloke should have done he should have pulled over as opposed to shouting abuse out of his car window
10:35
he should have pulled over, walked over to the Chancellor and engaged her in conversation face to face
10:40
that's the way we have political conversations and it should be a conversation
10:45
it shouldn't just be shouting at someone and maybe there is a gender thing
10:50
maybe it's the fact that he was a bloke shouting out of his van window at a woman
10:56
and I think it was almost the behaviour of a bully it was a bit cowardly to then just drive away
11:02
before she had a chance to properly respond but there was something about this incident that just left a sour taste in my mouth
11:08
And I do think it was pretty un-British. And I do think we need to be better at having those conversations
11:14
because there are times when I wonder, who on earth would go into politics these days
11:21
The amount of abuse these MPs suffer is off the charts. I mean, I'm obviously not drawing a correlation between what happened in Leeds
11:32
on, I think it was Wednesday, and what has happened to the likes of David Amos and Joe Cox
11:37
But I think it is worth bearing in mind that we have sadly had, in the last decade, two MPs murdered
11:43
And I think that is something that we probably forget far more easily
11:48
than the MPs themselves do. I'm sure Rachel Reeves and many other leading politicians
11:52
are all too aware of the threat they are under when they go about their business
11:59
And so I think we just need to bring down the temperature of our political debate
12:04
I think we need to find a way of recognising that politicians from parties we don't like
12:09
are not our enemy. They're just people with a different set of opinions and we need to find a way of engaging with them
12:15
in a more civil manner. We need to disagree agreeably and I think this incident, this heckler in Leeds
12:24
is not an example of that. 0345 6060 973 is the number
12:30
Whose side are you on? the chancellors or the man who heckled her
12:34
And I would also just pose this question too. Look, you know I am not a fan, to say the least, of this Labour government
12:41
but it does amaze me sometimes the level of anger there appears to be
12:45
about this Labour government. What explains that? Why is there so much vitriol about this Labour government
12:54
about this Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, who actually, I mean, look, Keir Starmer, deeply unpopular Prime Minister
13:00
if you look at the polls, Rachel Reeves even less popular. It is Rachel Reeves who is the least popular politician in the country at the moment
13:11
Does she deserve the level of hate she gets? I would just throw it out there that whilst this government is pretty useless
13:19
do they really deserve the level of contempt that a lot of people display for them
13:24
It's a curious thing. 03456060973 is the number to call. Send me a message on WhatsApp on the same number, or you can text me 84850
13:35
And look, as I say, I don't want us to get to a situation where you can't robustly publicly challenge a politician
13:43
And there are going to be moments where voters encounter MPs on the campaign trail, wherever it may be
13:49
And yeah, absolutely, they should be able to give them a piece of their mind
13:53
That's great. But there's a way of doing this. And I wonder if you think the way this man did it was wrong
13:58
You know, he had the St George's cross flying on his van, which I'm not against for a moment
14:03
I put the England flag on my car when it's the World Cup and all that kind of stuff. So I've got no issue with that whatsoever
14:09
But I do think it is ironic for a man who presumably considers himself a patriot
14:13
to display what I consider to be a slightly un-British lack of civility
14:18
Paul has called from Twickenham. Hello, Paul. Have you ever heckled? No, I haven't, Sheila, but I wanted to give an example
14:25
I think it was the Labour Party conference in Brighton a few years back
14:31
I think it was Keir Starmer at the podium but I'm not picking on him, it could have been any politician
14:37
one of the delegates started shouting out she obviously had a deep concern about some aspect of the health service
14:46
I think it was and I think it's Keir, he remained at the podium
14:52
came and took this lady by charm frogmashed her out and I thought do you know what It would be really brilliant if kia if that who it was i think it was him or it doesn matter but anyway had said to that to
15:08
conference look you feel strongly about this i will give you the microphone for two or three
15:15
minutes make your point get it off your chest to conference and i will answer it to the best of my
15:23
and that would have been to me a beautiful in democratic politics
15:30
it's been put to me that the risk is that everyone would then start chipping in
15:35
I don't think so this was one person doing this and I thought at the time
15:41
I don't like people being frog marched out of conferences for shouting out
15:46
if it's possible in good order to let them say their piece
15:51
be heard by everyone and an answer given from the platform, that's great
15:56
Second example and final example, Sheila, I attended a Billy Graham religious rally in about 1970 at Earls Court
16:06
Rather a grim building, you know, where they used to have the boat exhibition
16:09
I went to one at Goodison years and years ago when I was a teenager. Yeah, it was the same for me
16:15
And unbelievably, to me anyway, Billy Graham was heckled just a little bit from someone in the balcony
16:24
or a group of people in the balcony. And he said to them, I can't remember exactly, Sheila
16:29
I'm giving a very faded memory. Paraphrasing it now. He said something like
16:34
your grandparents were heckling my grandfather. They didn't succeed. Then you won't succeed
16:44
And it was modestly said. I don't remember anyone being frog marched out
16:48
I couldn't see. but that's just two different takes Sheila on on on the on the heckling no and I think you're right
16:54
to to describe them I can give you a similar one um that I I meant to mention earlier but I can now
17:00
because of your prompt when I covered the visit to Britain of Pope Benedict in 2010 obviously there
17:05
was a lot of completely understandable protest about the child abuse scandal in the church
17:11
and I was up in Edinburgh doing an outside broadcast on the street as we do um and I was
17:17
in conversation with two cardinals and an emeritus cardinal, literally around a table that we were all at
17:25
And the protesters started to get noisy and, you know, make their presence felt. And Cardinal Vincent Nichols, who's no longer Archbishop of Westminster, but he just quietly left the table
17:37
No drama. I had plenty of people to speak to. Quietly left the table, came back with two of the protesters
17:43
one or two of the protesters from memory, I can't remember, but to join us
17:47
and he invited the person to come and join the discussion, which he then did
17:51
And it was beautiful. It was brilliant. And it's the kind of thing you're urging people to do, isn't it
17:58
Exactly, Sheila. It opens up. We're all then treating each other as humans
18:07
People with a voice, yeah. Yeah. Final, Sheila. I remember hearing years and years ago on the television
18:13
to put it the other way, sort of heckling in reverse I remember
18:18
this man saying that this sort of fire and brimstone preacher visited his village up in Yorkshire
18:26
I don't know in the 20s or 30s pointed at his mother and said
18:30
you know you're going to hell blah blah blah and the man said he remembered the reply of his
18:36
was whether I go there or somewhere else I shall see somebody I know
18:40
and he said he was very proud of his mother She was an uneducated woman, but she gave a brilliant, brilliant reply to this sort of heckling from the other side, heckling from the platform
18:53
But, Sheila, I just thought to set the tone for a political party, it would have been absolutely marvellous if Keir Starmer had invited that woman who felt that the health service or whatever it was was being badly neglected
19:08
Invite her onto the stage. I felt similarly about, and again, this isn't a criticism of Rachel Reeves
19:13
you do what you do in the moment, don't you? But I think what would have been a better thing for her to do
19:17
is what Cardinal Vincent Nicholls did in the way I've just described
19:21
She could have said to him, why don't you come down out of that truck and come and talk to me
19:25
Come on, we've got cameras here, we've got microphones here. You can have a chance to chat straight direct with the Chancellor of the Exchequer
19:30
Come on, come on, come and talk to me. That would have been really powerful, I think. And then if he made a disgrace of himself, he made a disgrace of himself
19:38
So, so be it, you know? Pete messages to say, James, I take my hat off to that heckler
19:42
saying what most of us are thinking, she'd have got far worse language from me
19:47
She's completely useless. Verbal abuse? What about the physical abuse? She is dishing out
19:54
This clown is costing people their jobs, effectively starving people. Like Starmer, she is out of her depth
20:01
Pete, have a bit of perspective, mate. She is not dishing out physical abuse
20:08
You may disagree with her policies. They do not constitute physical abuse
20:14
Mark in Lee Green says, James, you absolute fool. He didn't shout abuse
20:18
He just said what the whole country is thinking, but we are silenced. What do you want us to be
20:23
The three monkeys, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. There should be many more incidents like this shown on TV
20:29
Richard is in St Helens. Morning, Richard. What say you? Good morning, James
20:33
I agree with what Mark said. Listen, we used to have public meetings
20:37
when the public could go along and challenge our top politicians. And they had to face heckling
20:43
They had to face real abuse. There was even fighting. You can see newsreel of this
20:47
All of that's gone now. I mean, I probably don't have the politics of white van man
20:53
I'm a card card member of the Labour Party. And I was invited to go to the launch of Andy Burnham's campaign, you know
21:03
But they didn't reveal the... To the RSVP on the day, They didn't reveal the venue
21:11
Now, what are they so afraid of? They should face the politics
21:14
But I don't think she's afraid of having a conversation with this voter. But this voter didn't want a conversation, did he
21:20
I mean, he could have, as I suggested, pulled over, got out of his van
21:24
walked over to the Chancellor, engaged her in conversation. Isn't that how the democratic process is meant to work
21:31
Well, James, not everybody can do that. Well, he can pull over, can't he
21:37
Why shouldn't he shout at her? If he feels like shouting at her, he's a member of a democracy
21:45
they don't put themselves up for exposure to the public, then good on him
21:51
But she does put herself up for exposure to the public. I'm sure she has constituency surgeries where people can go and raise concerns
22:00
I'm sure she hosts all manner of meetings. And ultimately, she's accountable because she'll be up for election every four or five years
22:06
But she doesn't face the demos on a day-to-day basis, or even on a weekly basis or a monthly basis
22:14
No, I disagree, Richard. I disagree. So many politicians... She doesn't face public meetings
22:19
I'm sure she does loads of public meetings. They're not always televised, but the number of MPs
22:24
who carry out engagements community meetings surgeries on a regular basis Yeah in course they not always on the Yes exactly But he not in her constituency
22:35
But does that make a difference? Yes, because he hasn't got a chance to get at her
22:39
So, get at her. But, I mean, even that language I'm not a fan of, Richard
22:44
I don't think you have a right to get at the Chancellor of the Exchequer
22:49
Now, there might be an opportunity where you can engage them in conversation. or if you encounter them, you can have that conversation
22:56
But I just, it's the way he shouted out of his window, drove off
23:01
Look, there's a fine line, and I don't want us to become so prudish
23:05
that you can never have a robust conversation. But for me, it veered over the line
23:11
That's what you're saying. It veered over the line for me. No. And maybe there's a gender equality as well
23:16
This is a bloke shouting at a woman and driving away. Oh, but they want the women, she wants to be treated equally in every other respect, but she can't take the, because it's a man, come on. She's part of this snowflake generation
23:32
any discontent when you shout at people, they're labelled, which is really, really wrong
23:39
because it's always been our right to shout and bawl. It doesn't matter how much it is at our politicians and our governments
23:50
but even now, when you do, you're labelled, you're put in a bracket
23:55
and it's wrong what they do to us. Yeah, I agree. I think heckling, well, you know what I think about heckling
24:00
and clearly I think it's an important part of what a citizen is free to do. I think there are limits on it, aren't there
24:06
Like any behaviour, you don't want to put someone in danger, and that's why I'm not a fan of the physical heckle
24:11
if you see what I mean. But that's not heckling. No, I know. That's violence. That's attacking, isn't it
24:15
Look at the man who was taken out of the Labour Party conference
24:19
when he showered about... The climate activist. So, so wrong. Are you talking about the young climate activist
24:27
or the older man who was some years ago? The older man was taken out
24:30
That looked terrible. I think it was in Brighton. Yes, I can't remember where, but it was terrible, yeah
24:36
And I think, you know, a man who can stand up and say..
24:39
Because I'm not being funny. Our politicians have to be held to account by their electorate
24:47
So, you know, if we can't sort of say, oh, by the way, that's right, that's not right, that's wrong
24:54
then it makes them sort of like um well without any sort of recalls it's crazy yeah they're not
25:06
above us is the important thing and and whilst i don't think shouting is a is a routine uh good
25:12
way to communicate with anybody i think when somebody has a great deal of power and they're
25:17
there at our the voters good graces if we feel they're really harming us or hurting us in some
25:24
way, I think we are allowed to say, Oi, you with the power and the security
25:28
and the da-da-da-da, I'm going to shout over all this noise and say what I think
25:32
I think it's really important. Well, it's what we're made of. Surely, Sheila. Surely
25:40
It's certainly what the history of this country is made of, that's for sure. When you look for our history
25:45
going all the way back to wherever, we've always, the population of this country
25:50
have always just stood up and shouted for what's right. What about this text here? I wonder what you think of it. Kate says that wasn't a heckle directed towards Rachel Reeves. It was abuse. It would be shameful to minimise and play down, especially when it has the potential to escalate as the desperation for social media clicks increases. How many MPs have been murdered in the last decade? I think that's complaining two things wrongly personally
26:15
well you see the thing with rachel reads she's not very well liked you can't do things like that
26:23
towards that woman but end of the day they still have to make account of what they do
26:30
and and that's the fine line but she didn't she didn't seem perturbed by the by the heckle you
26:37
know she wasn't upset or she gave her version back and she was laughing and joking about putting
26:43
it on the telly afterwards. You know, she wasn't disturbed or upset by that
26:47
It didn't seem to me. Well, if it was one missus, she'd be upset. She wouldn't tell me
26:55
Well, if somebody shouted at her from a van. Yeah, and yeah
26:59
it's the point of, I think it's the point of just being
27:05
so vulnerable as well. I don't think she was vulnerable in that position
27:09
but you can obviously disagree with me. Kate clearly does. Morning, Zach. What would you like to say
27:15
Hey, good morning. Thanks for having me. Really, it's sad. It's quite sad, I think
27:22
for the woman to be approached in this manner, outside, vulnerable, and it's quite scary
27:31
If that's seen as normal, I wouldn't like someone to approach my sibling or my mother
27:37
or any of my family in this manner. So you think the heckler was wrong to act the way he did
27:42
Absolutely. I think it's outrageous. And it needs to be criticised, it needs to be called out
27:50
because otherwise it will just continue and grow and it will become more normal to just, you know
27:57
politician as well. Any woman shouldn't be. And it really highlights how people perceive a woman in that sense
28:06
and not understanding how she may be feeling, you know. but I feel like a lot of this is displaced anger
28:15
really is the economy, the cost of living, rent and also the excessive criticism of politicians as well
28:24
like I'm quite a critical thinker and if I listen to a lot of the mainstream content
28:31
I myself would also dislike this politician but my critical thinking makes me understand
28:39
that this is not the case. And really, it's the bonds and the cost of living
28:45
and there's other issues that her hands are tied, you know. So, but these people, I guess they haven't come to..
28:51
Yeah, and I can understand why people are angry and I can understand why people feel like their voices aren't being heard
28:57
I get that. I don't necessarily understand quite the level of vitriol
29:00
that this government attracts. Look, I think this government is useless, but I don't think they're all bad people
29:05
And yet the hate that gets directed at Starmer and Reeves in particular
29:09
I do find quite startling at times. But it's interesting, Zach, you mention no woman should face what Rachel Reeves did
29:18
Would it have made a difference if it was a male politician who was being shouted at
29:24
I think, to be honest, it wouldn't. Generally, you don't shout at people
29:29
Generally, that's not manners to shout at people, mystery. They haven't done anything to you personally
29:36
especially who are not by themselves walking. You can have a conversation with someone
29:41
You can say hello, introduce yourself and ask for an opportunity to have a conversation
29:47
That would be a better way to go about it. And if the person refuses then you respectfully maybe write a letter or another form of communicating or email or
29:59
We could even protest, you know. There's many avenues to go about instead of..
30:05
But this is where things are going, which is sadly... It's really the economy, but this is where things are going, honestly
30:11
I can see it's getting worse. Affordable housing would save everything. If the council just built their own properties instead of getting developers
30:19
to a couple million in and then give young people, let's say
30:23
a one-bedroom flat for like £600, his incentive to work, he's going to work
30:28
You give small families earning less than 30K, you give them a two bed for 900 quid
30:34
Let them boost the economy. The lower working class will boost the economy
30:40
if they have more money to spend. The upper class are just buying property and just hoarding wealth
30:46
Well, Zach, I agree with a lot of that, to be honest. Let's boost the economy
30:50
All this comes down to all the emotions. All of this is less..
30:55
It's because people feel really squeezed. It's the cost of living crisis. I think you're 100% right
30:59
I mean, I've said it before, my diagnosis for where we are going wrong, Nigel Farage likes to say Britain is broken
31:05
I think it's more simple. Brits are broke. People have no money
31:10
And I think if you can fix that, if you can get the economy growing again, if you can get people feeling like they're slowly getting richer over time
31:16
then a lot of this anger will dissipate. Zach, great call. Thank you
31:20
Zach in Kensington there. Anastasia messages to say, Morning, James. The man who heckled Rachel Reeves is not right
31:25
It's easy to be caught off guard. Rachel Reeves is my MP. I feel sympathy for her too
31:31
There are no manors in Leeds, says Anastasia. Well, Anastasia, come on
31:36
I went to university in Leeds, lovely city. I'd actually say it's one of the politest cities in the UK
31:40
because people in the north are incredibly friendly. But other than that, broadly speaking, I agree with you
31:46
I just wanted to just reflect really on your clumsy and cleverly comments for Heglers
31:53
And, you know, our regarded sort of great institution that comes through the House of Parliament has probably got the greatest number of hecklers
32:04
proportionately, when people come together than anywhere else I've ever seen, to be honest with you
32:11
And I think that just highlights the fact that it's actively encouraged
32:16
It's something that's absolutely indoctrinated in our society. and in our politics and therefore when they leave that chamber you say fair game for a heckle Well it has to be doesn it Because you know they putting across their points of view and you know you got whatever 50 60 million people in the country
32:38
that don't have an answer at that particular point. So, you know, it has to be that way, doesn't it
32:43
You know, any other person that probably denies that opportunity is denying, you know, the public their ability to, you know
32:55
discuss what points they're making at that particular point. It's a form of protest, isn't it
32:59
It's a kind of wild form of protest. Is it wild? You know what I mean by wild
33:05
I mean, it's not organised when I say wild. It's a freelance
33:09
It's better than wild, maybe. Exactly, yeah. You know, we've got plenty of freelancers that regularly write every day
33:18
So, but, you know, that's representative of their opinion, sometimes of public opinion
33:23
But, you know, the public opinion in its raw state has to be a heckle, doesn't it
33:29
Do you think it makes our politics not just livelier, which it clearly does, but do you think it makes our politics better
33:37
I think it does. Yeah, I think it does. Because, you know, at the end of the day, you know, politicians often, particularly around Westminster, are quite insulated, aren't they
33:47
and you know in some respects I know obviously when there's when there's all sorts going on
33:53
the knocking on doors you know it's kind of quite superficial I think uh in some respects not for
33:59
everybody I'm sure they get a mouthful when they canvass some of them well yeah I mean I've I've
34:07
spoken to politicians and I'm sort of part of my points of view but you know it only happens when
34:12
and there's, you know, elections around the corner, etc. So, you know, for the rest of the 364 days a year
34:20
it's often down to the public to voice their opinion, and I think heckling is probably one of that issue, one of that part
34:29
I agree with you. Michael is in Leicester. Morning, Michael. Go ahead. Good morning, James. Hope you're well
34:34
Very well, thank you. Yes, that clip with Rachel Reeves reminded me of that very obscene heckler
34:41
who made a job at Diane Abbott live on national TV a couple of years ago
34:45
And I thought to myself, look, you may not disagree with that person's politics
34:49
I'm not even a Labour supporter. But I mean I have tremendous respect for Diane Abbott and others who helped minorities to enter politics and become MPs but still did not deserve that And Rachel Reeves okay she not competent
35:04
I agree with you, not very competent at all. Did not deserve that
35:08
And I can understand the guy's frustration about it, but there's better ways to say it
35:12
Maybe, like you said, get out the van, go and speak to him in a mature fashion
35:16
Yeah, I think that would have been better. I think throwing abuse is not acceptable
35:21
I mean, I can understand frustration, you know, But you can deal with it better
35:26
That's what I say. What do you make, Michael, of Nigel Farage offering to buy the heckler a pint
35:32
I think that's just a bit of a... He's just taking an opportunity to make an extra jibe at the opposition
35:38
You know, I mean, Nigel Farage, you know, whether you like him or not, got some good and bad points
35:43
But saying that, I think that was a bit of an opportunistic jibe, really
35:47
to be honest with you. And, you know, I mean, you know, you can disagree to..
35:52
agreed to disagree on a lot of things. And, you know, maybe that was just a bit silly, really
35:57
I mean, I think that's just a bit tongue-in-cheek, to be honest with you. Well, maybe, but, you know, I was disappointed when I saw that
36:03
because Nigel Farage is a man who, more than most, sadly, has suffered, you know, horrendous abuse as a politician
36:10
And he's talked a lot about the threats him and his family have come under
36:15
He's been attacked with milkshakes. He's been physically assaulted. You know, he should be someone, more than most
36:21
who wants to bring down the temperature of political debate in this country
36:26
And yet, seemingly, he wants to buy this man a pint, which I think is disappointing, to put it mildly
36:30
Well, I've been listening to the conversation about non-violent political heckling
36:40
And it just occurred to me that as a sort of integral part of our democratic system
36:47
We need that opportunity to heckle because otherwise we end up like the Trump regime where only sycophants and people who agree with Trump are allowed to speak in press conferences and other public events
37:10
And even journalists are shut down by President Trump by calling them all sorts of unpleasant things And it just seems to me that we don in England in the UK sorry that we don want to go down that particular line We want to retain our ability to challenge
37:38
our politicians and for them to take our challenges seriously. Particularly when they aren't there, you know, sometimes they're just a moment and they amount
37:49
to nothing. You know what I mean? They're just, oh God, somebody gave me, you know
37:52
their full opinion then but other times like the hillsborough example i gave they they actually do
37:58
lead to something because they that man at the hillsborough memorial he crystallized everything
38:06
about that moment in that's in that heckle he crystallized exactly what was wrong with what
38:12
had just happened and and again to his credit the politician he was heckling said i will
38:18
take away what you've said i i get it i hear you i'll take it away and i'll sort it and he did and
38:24
you know that was a heckle that that mattered it really mattered and i think whether it matters or
38:29
not we're not serfs you know we're citizens exactly exactly we have a right to express our opinion
38:36
in a reasonable fashion of course and you know if we're going to just get shut down or even
38:42
a hilariously unreasonable fashion as long as it's peaceful. Yes, indeed. Yes, that's right
38:50
I mean, it's totally embarrassing when you listen to people trying to put forward a point of view in President Trump's presence
39:03
and they're just shut down completely. And I think that's terribly wrong
39:08
and I wouldn't like to see our system go down that particular route at all
39:15
No, I wouldn't. And also, I wouldn't want politicians to be given some kind of special dispensation
39:22
to be protected from heckling either. You know, absolutely. It should go without saying, but sadly, given what's happened in the last few years
39:31
the murders of Joe Cox and of Sir David Amess, it can't go without saying non-violently
39:36
there is simply no excuse at all for violence towards anybody but violence towards somebody
39:44
simply because you hold different political views to them that's an important thing to say but i'm
39:50
a huge fan of the heckle i don't really care what it's like i think a heckle matters for our democracy
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