Up next in 10
Student Henry Nowak, 18, was handcuffed and arrested by police after Vickrum Digwa fatally stabbed him before lying about being racially abused by the teen. The damning bodycam has now been released, showing how officers refused to believe Nowak had been stabbed, ignoring his complaints that he couldn't breathe. 00:05 An abridged and censored version of the bodycam footage. 01:43 Caller Phil has been 'really angered' by the case, which has changed his mind on 'two-tier policing'. 04:40 Caller Edward comes to the defence of the police who did check up on Henry Nowak. 07:13 Caller Wes points the finger at Digwa's family. 09:01 Caller Carl thinks people will use this case as an 'excuse to increase the racial divide'. 11:50 Caller Shaheed is worried that there were 'no witnesses' to the crime. 16:37 Caller Jarawa is a Sikh and thinks the use of the kirpan in this way is 'unfathomable' to most of his community. 22:56 Caller Aniket says when the word racism is mentioned 'rationality goes out the window'. 24:33 Caller Kieran thinks every phone-in on this topic should begin with the fact that a kirpan has never been used in a killing in the UK since the exemption law was brought in in 1988. 27:44 Caller Michael can't believe what he's heard in the bodycam: Digwa telling police that Nowak hadn't been stabbed. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #crime #uknews #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
An absolute day of shame, I have to say, for that particular Peace Force
0:03
now that the body cam footage has been released. Grabbed my brother, he took my turban off, so I grabbed him my head
0:09
Are you injured? Yeah, yeah, I've got swollen eye, a little bruised eye. Alright, just step back a little bit for me
0:14
Someone flagged these down. What's happened to you, alright? I've been stabbed
0:19
You've been stabbed? Whereabouts? I don't think you have, mate. Hand. Put the hand in the cuff, mate
0:34
You actually hear the young man saying, I can't breathe, I can't breathe
0:40
Oh, that would be the same words as George Floyd in the US some years ago
0:44
And what happened then? Well, we had the future prime minister taking the knee
0:48
We had football players taking the knee. Do you think we'll see the same for this young white boy
0:53
No, me neither. Wonder why. Wonder why the police decided to take the story of the
0:59
I think it's 25-year-old Sikh male, over the dying 18-year-old white boy
1:04
Wonder why that was. When do you suppose the protest movement will start
1:08
When do you suppose Sakir will take the knee proudly? And all the football players. Any time soon? Don't hold your breath
1:13
Sandy's been stabbed, so let's just check him. Where do you think you've been stabbed? In the face
1:18
Oh, no, but we have to check, don't we? In the face? Just get these back off, get their details on that
1:25
I'll keep holding him. What's your name, mate? By the moment, you are under arrest, and that's for assault
1:31
so you do not have to say anything. May harm a defence. If you do not mention when questioned, it's up to which you later rely on the court
1:36
Anything you do say may be given in evidence, all right? He's going to be sick, I think
1:41
His pupils aren't even reacting. I know I speak for a lot of Brits today. This has really angered me, this case
1:47
I've always been on the fence about 2T policing. I think we've got a very broken and inconsistent sentence
1:55
and judicial system, which leads to the perception of 2T policing. But this case, I can guarantee you
2:04
that the police officers have reacted with... As soon as the race card was pulled
2:11
it was like they've acted not objectively and they've pretty much acted as judge, jury and executioner
2:18
They've not assessed the situation. I can guarantee you if the shoe was on the other foot
2:25
and it was a person of colour on the floor, then it would have been a different story
2:31
Well, I think it's fair to say that they've certainly seemed to side with the Sikh man who is standing
2:36
claiming that he has an injury to his eye, although if you look at the video you can't see it, and rather ignored what turned out to be the dying requests of the white boy
2:45
Yes, yes. And I will stress that 30-40 years ago, we had a different kind of two-tier policing
2:51
the handling of the Stephen Lawrence case the events that led to
2:56
the Brixton and the Toxteth riots of course in Bristol all over
3:02
but now I accept that but now I think the shoot is on the other foot
3:09
the police in this case have not acted objectively and as soon as the race card was pulled
3:16
they've just right well we don't want to be perceived as racist
3:20
we're going to protect this ethnic minority and, you know, just to believe him wholeheartedly
3:29
The fish rots from the head down is how Mr Farage concluded his..
3:34
I think he spoke for about 10 or so minutes. What needs to be done then by the government
3:38
and the senior police officers? Well, this DEI woke narrative, which has been pushed on us for quite a long time now
3:49
it started off with good intentions but we all know where good intentions lead
3:53
and you know this this as nigel farage said it needs to be more much more of an objective
4:01
um standard of policing where people uh everybody's equal before the law that's what it's meant to be
4:08
phil thank you steve says labeling's all as racist and far right now of having different opinions to
4:13
the liberal left this is the result of the rhetoric it's come from keir starmer ashley
4:18
in Beaconsfield. I don't often agree with anything Nigel Farage says, however, he's absolutely spot on with this
4:22
The treatment of the young man and the footage is maybe absolutely apoplectic. It's a disgrace. My mother was a senior member of the
4:28
Met. The footage makes me feel ashamed of this country. Anyone who says two-tier policing isn't a thing, watch
4:34
the footage and tell me differently. Edward is in Exeter. Your take
4:38
on this, Edward. You're on the radio. Good morning. Hello. I just wanted
4:42
to basically say that we shouldn't be timing all of the police with
4:46
the same direction. I've watched the video from beginning to end and the police officers that arrived
4:52
after he was already in handcuffs actually started to check his vital signs
4:57
and they said that we should check to see if he actually has been stabbed
5:02
so I think the blame of this incident should lay firmly at the feet of
5:08
the first officer that was on the scene The blame lies at the
5:12
murderer, Vikram Dugvar let's be honest about it, and the blame members of his family who concoct a story
5:18
So let's be fair about this. But the police officer that dragged him out and didn't listen to him
5:24
when he said that he'd been stabbed and so on and so forth, when he clearly wasn't
5:28
resisting, should be held accountable for his actions. Can I ask you, when Mr Farage says
5:34
and I just want to get the note, because I was writing it down, here we are, that we have been
5:38
subjected, over the last two decades, we've been subjected to mass immigration without a vote
5:42
Do you feel you've been subjected to mass immigration without a vote? I do
5:46
I was actually voted in as a councillor for reform in Exeter. Oh, right
5:52
Not just now, last month, in May? No, no, last year I was actually
5:57
expelled from reform because I held reform accountable for something completely different and they didn't
6:04
like it. Right. So where are you politically now? I'm independent now, so I'm an
6:10
independent councillor in Exeter. I would just like to say, actually, that I think the politicians are exactly the people
6:16
that we should be blaming for what's been going on. We should be legalising pepper spray
6:22
There should be mandatory sentences for carrying a knife. And politicians have basically sat on their hands
6:29
on what I believe is national... You're not alone in thinking we should legalise pepper spray
6:34
Why would you do that? You mean, sorry, you mean citizens could carry it
6:38
Yeah, exactly. And the reason that I'm saying that is because the most common reason for carrying a knife
6:45
is people say that it's for their own self-defense. But if we give people a non-lethal alternative
6:51
to carrying a knife, then nobody is going to end up dying. And anybody that is carrying a knife
6:56
is clearly carrying it for much more malicious purposes. Not if you're a Sikh
7:02
You're carrying it because it's one of your basic tenets of your belief. It should be banned
7:05
It should be banned completely. All right. Edward, thank you. I'm only finishing to get more people involved
7:10
Thanks, Edward. Wes in Hammersmith, Wes, you're on the radio good morning. Good morning again
7:14
Nick, yeah I just think there's too much, because I just watched
7:18
the video and obviously police are responding to an incident somebody's, obviously
7:24
like you said before, it should be the family that should be to blame. Yep, well the mother
7:28
is facing, yep, she's going to face sentencing yep So they came obviously all the time I assuming I not a police officer but I assuming that when they arrest people oh I not well I having a heart attack I feel sick
7:41
So, upon reflection, what are the police supposed to do? Because they're always being scrutinised for every little thing they do
7:49
And, of course, yes, the race card... Well, they're not meant to turn a dying boy over and hang with him
7:54
A hundred and fifty percent. But at the time, they were responding to an incident where this guy has been told by all the lying public around him that he's the aggressor
8:06
But they have to rise above that, don't they? That's the powers that they have and hopefully the training that they receive
8:11
They're going to be given all sorts of contradictory messages throughout their police career
8:16
No one's ever going to say, I've done it, Gov. Yeah, 100%
8:20
But within the first 10 seconds, they've had to make an assessment what they thought was right
8:26
This comes in from Lee. The word racist has been weaponised. One cannot accuse anyone of any colour without being called a racist
8:32
Fear of calling out the grooming gangs is called as being mostly Pakistani
8:36
This must stop, and I don't care if I'm called a far-right racist
8:41
Paul, I'm a retired officer, and I'm disgusted and ashamed of what the police have become
8:45
As soon as someone tells you they've been stabbed, that becomes priority. Nothing else matters
8:49
The two officers and senior officers that night should also feel the full weight of the law, but, unfortunately, I doubt it
8:54
Carl's in Shipley on this. Carl, you're on the radio. What do you want to say? Good morning. Good morning. Yeah, I think
9:01
everyone can see the police have clearly made a mistake. They will no
9:05
doubt hold their hands up to it and the judiciary and the judicial process
9:09
will deal with that. The problem for me is that so many people now have the
9:15
opportunity that they've been looking for and are eager for to turn
9:19
this into something that can even cause more racial divide in our country
9:23
and their own inherent racism, including many people in the media, individuals, not just organisations, who harbour their own racism
9:32
not just about people who have been coming over on boats in the last few years, but since a lot of people have been coming over from the end of World War II
9:39
and they have never been comfortable with it. And using words like, you know, the changes in our cultural norms
9:47
and all this kind of nonsense. And that's what the problem is. It's just an excuse
9:51
because for everyone of this case that we're reporting on now, there will be endless cases that have been against black people
9:59
And if you Google, you'll get... I think Wes was trying to highlight one, and you may, for legal reasons, have stopped him fair enough
10:05
but there'll be many cases historically. Well, of course. I mean, we only have to go back to Stephen Lawrence
10:11
I mean, there are so many examples. Exactly, exactly. So why do you mean that
10:15
And then there's the fire at the New Cross fire. I mean, there are so many examples
10:19
And so many. And so many. But do you not see there is a... Carl, I'm absolutely acknowledging the way non-white people were policed was appalling
10:27
But do you not see it's now in a danger of coming around the other way? No, I don't. At all
10:32
Because nowadays in our media and in our society, feelings dominate over facts
10:39
Well, what happened that night in Southampton? Let me answer the question
10:43
Carl, please. What happened that night? If we're not seeing a repeat of the appalling way black and non-white people were policed
10:50
in the days of Stephen Lawrence and the days of the New Cross Fire
10:55
Obviously, we're seeing that with the way those Southampton officers acted. OK, and I've just confirmed that
11:01
Please, Nick, the way you present your show, when you ask someone a question, let them answer
11:05
Don't try and impose what you want them to say on what they say, right
11:10
Now, the fact is, you asked me a question. I do not believe that the police have an inherent problem in and of themselves
11:18
Yes, individuals in the organisation will make mistakes. They'll hold up their hands
11:22
But there is not a direct vendetta against white people in this country
11:27
Far from it. And this narrative that people are portraying are for other motivations
11:33
And you know the problem with that, isn't it? People have blood on their hands. Because for every time we stir up trouble in this country, it increases racial attacks on the streets
11:42
And some people, individuals, including yourself, need to ask the question, am I comfortable with what I am doing
11:48
My first concern is, like, in this country, you're not allowed to discuss cases, are you
11:52
So the news, the media will shut down any trial. They won't report much, you know, until there's a conviction
11:58
I only heard about the details of this case once there was a conviction. I think I heard about the rest
12:03
but I didn't hear anything as the case was unfolding, you know, what had been reported in court
12:07
But what has emerged since, I find a little bit worrying in the sense that
12:11
there was no witnesses to what happened. and the CPS say that Dingua was lying on the accusation
12:18
or his accusation, that he was attacked first and is a racially motivated attack. I'm thinking, first of all, if there's no witnesses
12:25
and, you know, how can they say that he was lying, that he was attacked first? Fighters don't just happen, do they
12:29
I'm not excusing what he's done. If he's guilty, if he's the one who's... No, sorry, Shahid, that is why we have a legal system in this country
12:36
for a judge who has all of the evidence at his disposal
12:40
to make that call. Respectfully, Shahid. Yeah, he. They went to a jury, didn't they
12:44
Where I think he's hung himself, I don't want to get too... Where I think he's hung himself is his dodgy actions afterwards, like trying to cover
12:50
up his filming. He's giving it to his mum as well, yeah. Yeah
12:54
But, I'm suspicious, I would not be surprised, years later, this comes out as an unsafe conviction because..
13:00
I can't believe this. We've just heard in court today, and your instant reaction is to go, oh, I wonder if
13:05
he actually did do something wrong. Hold on. He's dead, Shahid. If there's no witnesses, if there's no witnesses to the actual fight..
13:12
Then you rely on a judge and the legal system. The jury, you mean
13:16
Well, the jury, but also the judge to make that... But bear in mind, LB7 mentioned this
13:22
There's two cuts to the back of the legs. You don't see cuts to the back of the legs
13:26
If you're a police officer and you turn up, hey, you're not psychic. Dingwall's the one who called him
13:31
You don't see cuts to the back of the legs. You know, that won't be visible. One was to the jaw, apparently
13:35
What do you mean? He's probably trying to get away. He's probably trying to get away, Shahid. We heard that he climbed over..
13:41
No, no, you can't just say that. He climbed over a fence and left a trail of blood
13:46
if you must know, as we heard in court today. Well, I've not read that. I've not read that. Like I said, this is patchy information
13:51
Whoever you go to... It's all there in black and white. Where
13:55
You tell me and I'll look it up. Well, in the court documents. And where do I get..
14:00
That's the transparent... They're closed. They don't have cameras in, do they? I'm reading this from the Guardian and the Telegraph and the Times
14:07
It's not particularly difficult to find change. But let me just move on to the other thing
14:12
What I think is going on in general, remember Lucy Connolly, she openly called for hotels to be burnt down
14:18
and she didn't care if she was called. And what people reacted to that was very defensive
14:22
very shirty. Oh, we don't care. Just accept that's her two words. She should not be jailed
14:26
What my general concern here is, and I don't support Dingwall. If he's the aggressor, I do not support him
14:31
No way. But what's coming across to me is if somebody's racist
14:35
it's like, doesn't matter. Don't complain. You've got no rights. Allow that person to be racist. or now don't believe them
14:40
That is what's coming across in this case and that Lucy Connolly
14:44
It doesn't matter if somebody's racist or not. Either don't believe them, they're playing the race card. But Lucy Connolly was sentenced
14:48
I'm not concerned. Yeah, because she pled guilty. She pled guilty, but the reaction is
14:53
it doesn't matter or now disbelieve them. That is where this thing is going
14:58
I won't support Dingwall, no way. What I'm just concerned about is there's no witnesses
15:02
How can you be so sure that he was lying? Well there could have been There could have been Well Judge William Mosley the KC said that Dingwer murdered Novak because he believed he been disrespected by him
15:17
asked him if he was a bad man, probably because he'd seen the large dagger
15:22
The judge said, I'm sure Henry said nothing racist. You're the only person to make that claim
15:26
Let me finish. Hold on, let me finish. I'm not justifying it. Hold on, let me just say this last bit
15:31
And it's completely at odds with his previous character. So you can't just decide from that
15:35
well, he might have been racist. The judge has made the point that..
15:39
What do you mean? They're talking to somebody of Pakistani heritage who's had loads of racism his whole life
15:43
I'm not doubting that, Shahid, and I'm genuinely sorry to hear that, but it doesn't mean that in these instances..
15:48
What I'm imagining happened, what I'm imagining happened, that Dingwall's apparently doing delivery deliveries
15:52
with his brother. You'll meet a lot of people then. There's nothing, no reports about him
15:56
kicking off against any of his customers. What I do imagine, what I am thinking and suspecting
16:01
is that the victim saw him, may have said something provocative and didn't get kicked off
16:06
And then there was a struggle, and that's how he pulled for his blade. And on the blade, even if it was in my religion of Islam saying
16:14
oh, you must carry a knife, I would say, no, it's too risky. You're going to get some hot-headed idiot that's going to pull it out in anger
16:19
And even if it was in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, I'd have the same view. I'm thinking, no, it's too risky
16:24
There are too many idiots out there who go into a pious way as an excuse to use it
16:28
and they'll use it in anger. And don't risk it. I'm sorry to those that want to generally hold a blade out of their genuine belief
16:35
but I think it's too risky in these kind of situations. I'm a Sikh, a karbhan-wearing Sikh, have done so for the last 20, 25 years
16:43
and one of the reasons that there's been such a prominent kind of uproar by the Sikhs
16:51
about making statements and giving our condolences to Henry is because the notion of using our kurpan to this effect
17:02
is unfathomable, right? It's something that is just not considered. He didn't use the kurpan, just to be clear, in this case
17:11
100%, yes. He didn't use the kurpan. What he did was he obviously had another larger blade
17:18
and he used that instead. So it is important to distinguish that
17:22
But first and foremost, the knife crime itself is abhorrent. It's not acceptable
17:30
Just to clarify on that, I read, you said in court, you're a member of an order of Sikhs called the, an apology
17:37
is it the Ni Hang, the Nahang, who have a tradition of carrying a second knife
17:42
that is often fully visible, is what was heard in court today? Yeah, quite often they can do, right
17:50
But it's not typical, it's not the order of the Sikhs to wear the big, big karpanna on them or other types of weapons on them when they're out and about, right
18:05
You will always carry a karpan, the shorter one, which is kind of defined by law
18:10
And that's what you'd adhere to, right? He obviously had another one with him, he's used that
18:17
And that's not a karpan. that would be something totally separate. And he's used that, and the full force of the law, I'm glad, has taken place
18:28
I'm very, very kind of upset about the situation and what's happened
18:33
I can imagine. I'm equally, because, look, I've been carrying this, and how many other Sikhs that are baptised carry this in the UK
18:42
You know, it must be in the tens of thousands. How many cases do we hear of Sikhs
18:46
Well, can I tell you, since the exemption for carrying this was introduced in the Criminal Justice Act of 1988
18:54
giving people the right to have a kirpan, there has not been a single example of it being used in any attack or any killing
19:03
So I am absolutely happy to make that point. Absolutely, and the reason for that is because what I said at the start is unfathomable
19:11
we are taught that we this kapan isn't ours it's a gift from our gurus, we don't abuse it
19:17
our gurus are, what they've done in their lifetimes, they've sacrificed themselves, not just
19:23
for our religion, for other religions before they've even considered picking any weapons
19:28
but what they have done is they've adorned them to us, but with
19:33
such restraint that is very rarely used, there is more chance of somebody being struck
19:39
by lightning right every year in the uk than ever a seat coming and and stabbing them with with a carpan
19:46
and and that's why when it's happened even it's unfathomable for us and you know but my and and
19:55
that the other side of my concern is that you know the way the situation is in the country we all know
20:01
what's going on and how kind of like the mood can change and shift in a country and you we seem to
20:08
be getting a shift so you know what what i find equally disgusting is how right wing or right
20:16
leaning whether it be media correspondence and the like will use this one incident even though
20:22
it's probably rarer than you know winning the lottery but i think that's so important why we
20:28
talk about it because the problem is if you just leave it to the likes of elon musk and some other
20:34
you know, people, to be the only ones talking about it, A, it looks like you're in some way covering it up
20:41
And also, I mean, anyone can agree, whatever your politics, this is, and you know, you were saying that it's just the most horrific incident
20:48
that's happened to Henry Novak and, of course, the repercussions for his family
20:52
And the issue is, if you ignore it and you don't talk about it, then the only people talking about it are, as you say
20:57
people who are often on the far right or the hard right. But all I'm saying is there needs to be equal measure in that discussion and equal representation
21:06
So we're talking about Henry Novak, but there's 100 or so murders with stabbings that have happened
21:12
How many names can we, how many names do we know of those poor victims and those circumstances and the situations that arose around that
21:21
Can we name a few probably, but compared to how many incidents happened
21:27
We don't know those details. They don't even make the news anymore
21:31
And this is what I'm trying to say. It's got to be kind of an equal representation
21:36
in terms of the situation and the rarity of it. And, yeah, it's good to talk about these issues
21:44
but there needs to be kind of a fair representation of the whole story, not just focus on one thing
21:51
just to provide a narrative, whether it's rightly... I've been reading stuff from correspondents saying
21:56
oh, the Sikh of Ban is not compatible with British society. It's never been compatible with British society
22:02
And as I pointed out, there hasn't been a single case of it being used. There hasn't been a single case
22:07
Now, and, you know, and a large amount of Brits might not know
22:12
that Sikhs, baptised Sikhs, not all Sikhs, baptised Sikhs, carry a Kav Ban
22:17
The British and the Sikh history goes back hundreds of years. It was compatible when the British were in India during the British Raj
22:24
It was compatible when the Sikhs were in World War I, World War II
22:29
It was compatible when the Sikhs came over. In fact, it's so compatible with British culture, it's enshrined in law
22:36
I mean, what more? Like you know we in Britain our pride is that we law We have legal system and we law citizens That one of the great things about Britain when we talk about you know
22:51
what are the good things about Britain, you know, what's the culture of Britain? One of it is it's got really strong laws
22:56
When he said, I've been stabbed, I mean, a rational response then would have been
22:59
to try and ascertain if that was true and then to get medical attention
23:03
But they just, because they assumed that he was the, he must be racist, because that was what they'd been told
23:09
they proceeded to handcuff him. So I think when the R word gets used like that
23:14
rationality seems to just go out of the window, and that's unfortunately something that's widespread in our society now
23:20
What do you make of the conversation we're having about this? Because, I mean, clearly it's a highly emotive one
23:25
and the main thing I was trying to decipher, and you may have heard some of that harrowing body cam footage that we played
23:31
but it's really what the police can learn from this. And I've got no doubt being a police officer is a difficult job, by the way
23:37
I'm not for one moment pointing the finger and being clever after the event
23:41
But ultimately, he quite clearly is saying that I can't breathe, Henry Novak
23:48
Yeah, I mean, obviously it is a difficult job, and I think we often haven't made it easier for them
23:55
with the kind of excessive political correctness that we've got in this country at the moment
24:00
around things like race. As we know, obviously, that was one of the reasons why the grooming scandal wasn't investigated for so long
24:06
because everyone is just so nervous around this issue. Even though Sikhism isn't a race, as has been erroneously suggested by some of your earlier callers
24:13
but whenever a religion is evolved, especially one that seems to be most practiced by non-white people
24:19
everyone just gets very, very, very jumpy about it. And I think that's a huge problem, especially when it comes to kind of effective policing
24:28
Okay. Thank you, Anaket. I appreciate you calling in. Kieran's in Bracknell. Hi, Kieran
24:33
Henry, hi. Hi. Are you okay? I'm all right, yeah. How about you
24:37
uh yeah i'm calling i'm calling because i've been listening to you for a very long time okay i don't
24:44
think you're racist at all uh the first call went out of control but there is an element what he was
24:51
trying to say he got really jumpy on the way what the ds was talking about and you never said anything
24:57
wrong at all i can tell you that much but what is the problem we have in this country it's about
25:02
the race. I don't understand when we're talking about a knife crime. Where is the sickism came into
25:08
it? I do not know. Did I hear you mention, since 1988, not a single
25:14
crime on this ever reported for 38 years? Can I make a request, please
25:20
I think this is where we are in the dangerous times in this country at this moment. I think every single
25:26
LBC presenter should start with that, because that is the only way to educate the morons
25:32
I'm sorry, because as you said, misinformation, it spreads like a wildfire
25:37
I think that is what everyone should start about and not the religion. And bring it to educate everybody, because to the gullible, this information can be easily twisted
25:52
And you know what? The crimes could be against the sick people, sick in this country
25:57
because it could be racially aggravated assaults coming through, which I hope it is not
26:04
Kieran, are you a Sikh, do you mind me asking? I don't know what your religion is. No, look, I'm a human, okay
26:09
I'm born Hindu. I'm born Hindu. I'm British Hindu. I think the religion is up
26:14
The whole thing about religion makes me sick, to be honest. Okay. Well, the reason I raise it is
26:19
I mean, my feed of messages coming in is there are a lot of people saying that regardless of
26:25
the vast, vast, vast... I mean, you know, this is one individual
26:30
out of all of the British Sikhs who's clearly a complete idiot
26:36
But the idea that you still are able to carry a ceremonial blade
26:41
is something that they don't quite understand. And they're saying, you know, if it does get in the hands of someone
26:46
who is clearly evil or unhinged or insert your own word here
26:50
then clearly there's a level of risk or danger. Sure. Maybe because of the level of nice crime across the country, right
26:58
And maybe it is time to re-look at the legislation of 1988, why it was exact
27:02
Maybe that is something, a discussion should happen openly. But the most important piece, what I cannot understand, as a police officer, we understand
27:10
What the harrowing footage, what he just said, made me pick up the phone
27:15
He's telling, he's struggling to breathe. The first port of call should be ambulance
27:20
Ambulance should be there. Whether that person has done. and how can you read somebody's rights
27:24
when you can't hear him breathe? Thank you, Kieran. Good call, and it's interesting to get your perspective
27:32
so thank you for calling in and putting it bluntly in a nicer way
27:35
than just shouting at me and calling me a racist. Michael's in Sunderland. Hello, Michael
27:40
Hi, Envy. The sound was oven. I've actually seen the video. Yeah
27:46
It is horrendous, but it's also the Pia De Ves card, because that's what it says when the phone 999
27:53
And also, the murderer turned around and says he hasn't been stabbed
27:57
Yeah, yeah, that's a very good point, actually, and I forgot to mention that, because he does clearly say he has not been stabbed
28:04
Yeah, and then, because on the video you can see him, he's trying to get the police's attention
28:09
It's just like, oh, I'm the one, I'm the victim of you, forget about him
28:13
But what I'm trying to, this case is totally, and also, mind you, the police, I think
28:20
this crumble charges, because... Well, at one point, I don't know if you could hear
28:24
Michael, and I'll have to get someone to listen back to you, but at one point
28:28
it sounds like a police officer says to him, he says, I've been stabbed, and I think the police officer says
28:32
I don't think you have, mate, is the exact words, which... Yeah, he does
28:38
And then another one says, when he says, he hasn't been stabbed
28:41
one of the individuals, we're not sure if it is Vikram or if it's his brother
28:46
but he goes, as you say, he goes, well, he hasn't been stabbed, and a female police officer says
28:51
well, we have to check. You'll understand we have to check. It was very dismissive
28:57
Yeah, because I've also put the subtypers on so you can leave it all as well
29:01
Because, you know, you have certain words you kind of pick up. But all of it
29:07
I think the bloody should be done as well because not once did they say he's being stabbed
29:11
he climbed over a fence, his shoe's here, his shoe's over there, and they're trying to distract from it
29:17
But as a policeman, Surely, you don't go in and you just believe the first thing you're told
29:25
He clearly wasn't in a fit state to call 999 himself, was he? Because he'd been stabbed
29:30
Yeah, but it's not as if he was drunk. And so what I'm saying is, I can't understand
29:34
And even more other than, right, is when they come and arrested the perpetrator, right
29:42
they didn't even put handcuffs on him. And he's somebody dying. Plus, also, another thing I'm annoyed about
29:48
Keir Starmer took us seven o'clock today to make any sort of comment where within a week or two, they were on the knees about that George Floyd
29:59
All I would say, Michael, is that this is UK proceedings. He is ultimately a barrister and he and I don't know what goes through his mind
30:10
But all I would say as a counter is he's probably thinking as someone who was the most senior prosecutor in the land when he's head of the Crown Prosecution Service
30:16
he wants to wait until sentencing is done, as has been done today before he passes judgment
#news