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A ban on under-16s using social media will give youngsters back their childhood, Sir Keir Starmer said. 0:00| Starmer delivers a press conference 2:42 | LBC’s Guy Stewart shows how fast people can get around the ban 5:54 | Tory MP Laura Trott says Starmer’s statement was ‘encouraging’ 8:22 | Amanda reveals the tension social media causes for her family 12:05 | Teacher Julia discusses the addictive nature of social media 14:25 | Steph says being able holding a clear line is valuable The Prime Minister announced the ban in response to concerns social media is unsafe, making children miserable and could cause lasting damage to their mental health. He acknowledged some youngsters would try to find their way around a ban but said he would not compromise on the “safety and happiness of our children”. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #nickferrari #keirstarmer #socialmedia #socialmediaban #ukpolitics #uknews #reaction #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
All I've ever wanted for my own children, hand on heart, is for them to be happy and for them to be safe
0:07
And I think that's what any parent wants. But I ask the question now, do we truly believe that social media creates a happy environment for our children
0:20
Do we truly believe that it's a place where they can feel safe
0:26
I don't think I even need to answer those questions, do I? Every parent can see it with their own eyes
0:34
Social media is making children unhappy. It's making it easier for bullies to harass and abuse them
0:42
And it could even be harming their mental health, exposing them to content that is dangerous
0:48
because that's what grabs the attention. It's designed to be addictive. Of course it is
0:54
LBC has heard from so many parents who want to see this change, but what does success look like to you
0:59
How will you make sure that this is actually enforced? And just to follow up on Beth's question, how will you explain this policy to a sceptical President Trump who may not support your move
1:08
Thank you. Just in terms of success, that will be in a drop-off in children on social media
1:18
It won't be complete because some of them will get around it. But a massive drop-off in children on social media is sort of step number one
1:25
I think step number two, probably equally if not more important, is a cultural change
1:34
A sense that our children can grow up differently and have better and more enriching childhoods as a result
1:41
Now that will take a bit longer. I think there will be almost a transition because a lot of teenagers under the age of 16 have already started growing up with social media
1:52
But as the expectation changes over time, as it will, I think that there will be a cultural change
1:59
Cultural change is always much harder. Changing the law is one thing, it can be very difficult
2:04
Cultural change is much, much harder. In relation to President Trump, look, I honestly think that across world leaders
2:17
there has always been a recognition that leaders have to take steps to protect children
2:22
I don't think that's controversial. There always would be arguments as to exactly what the limits of that are
2:28
and what rules should be in place. But I don't see that as a problem
2:35
And obviously we're about to go off to the G7 later on today
2:39
and I will discuss this with world leaders when I'm there. What we heard from the Prime Minister talking about this change
2:44
he asked the rhetorical question, social media does it create a happy environment for our children
2:50
Does it make a creative environment where we feel safe? As I say, it was a rhetorical because he then said, no, it doesn't
2:55
And indeed, it makes it easier for bullies to harass and to abuse children. He says it stops children doing their homework, reading, playing outside, going to bed at a decent hour
3:05
It is every parent's fear. He says he has a government that fights for the happiness and the safety of our children as he announced that ban
3:12
That's the political side. Let's get into the technological side, what it actually means, how it will be enforced, how doable it is
3:18
As I remind you, just on the question he took on the timing, the legislation will be passed before Christmas
3:23
with a look at implementation in the early part of the new year. Listening to that and in the studio with me
3:28
LBC's technology correspondent, Will Guyatt. Will, you're the man with everything at your fingertips here
3:32
Literally, you've got your mobile phone. Tell us, take us through what he's trying to do and the likelihood that it will work. Morning to you
3:37
So, the idea of the ban and the block and stopping young people from using the accounts
3:42
can come in two ways. Firstly, in Australia, the tech companies have not done enough to police accounts
3:48
They simply haven't done enough, and the fear of enforcement and fines hasn't been enough to persuade them to do it either
3:54
But the biggest challenge here, and the absolute elephant in the room, and admittedly, the Prime Minister there
3:59
did admit that there were problems with technology, Nick. I'm going to show you just how quickly it is to put a VPN on
4:04
I've done it. I am now in Boardman in the United States My phone is not in London I could circumvent any of the current rules that are being put in place Now that is the challenge with this Now admittedly
4:17
I needed to install a VPN on my phone and a parent or somebody would have to pay for
4:22
the service. But once you've installed it, it takes two seconds to activate that. And
4:27
that's on any mobile device. So that's the problem. Now, Australia haven't managed to
4:32
crack down on that, Will. No, you can't. It's impossible. If the government starts telling us VPNs are evil, they're advising their own people to use them to protect data and security if they work from home
4:41
So that's why these things, VPNs, are very much part of the internet
4:45
So the government has a series of blunt tools that they can use to try and change this
4:50
This is one of them. If they're going to have to put more big technical steps in place, you go into sort of fairly unprecedented levels of Chinese or Russian levels of internet control
5:00
And that's one thing that lots of people are actually clearly quite concerned about
5:05
As a parent, though, I underline the idea of having to keep our children safer online
5:10
That's something I agree with, but the government doesn't have much they can play with, despite the Prime Minister saying he's going to get tough on technology companies
5:17
If I hear today at any stage they're going to lock them up, lock up the bosses of tech companies, show action
5:22
You've been saying that for years. Lastly, we wait for the legislation to be passed at the end of this year, Will
5:27
What will you use VPNs? What else will you specifically be looking out for
5:31
So other methods of breaking your use of accounts or services. So, for example, how are they going to police parents signing up and just giving a kid a phone, which we see all the time
5:44
And also, so many of these accounts at the moment, Nick, say they're over the age of 16
5:48
I don't see enough from the tech companies yet to be actually proving or disproving that accounts are 16, and it has not worked in Australia
5:55
Admittedly, you're probably going to say, well, Nick, give us, we need to see a little bit more detail. But from what you're hearing so far, is this a job well done, a job half done, a job not really touched
6:03
What would you say, Laura Trott? Good morning. Good morning, Nick. And I am absolutely delighted this morning because this wouldn't have happened without the Conservatives
6:10
And it's a victory for us, but also for parents up and down the country who've been crying out for this
6:15
What we heard from the Prime Minister this morning was encouraging, actually. It was the blanket ban that we've been calling for for under-16s
6:21
I am a bit worried that he's including YouTube, excluding YouTube Kids
6:26
because we know that there are problems on this platform. My lovely niece was watching YouTube Kids and she saw an advert for a machete
6:33
You know, this is not a safe platform and not something that we should be encouraging. But those details aside, the direction of travel is the right one
6:40
OK, what needs to happen now then for it to become perhaps slightly more all-encompassing
6:45
And also the issue, as my colleague, the LBC technology correspondent Will Guy pointed out
6:49
we've not attacked the elephant in the room, which is VPNs, which, of course, I'm sure you'll understand as well
6:55
Yes, well, when we were putting legislation through the House of Commons, where we tried to get the Labour Party and the government to support this
7:01
they voted against it three times. And part of our legislation was to block VPNs for under-18s
7:08
because we think that is an important part of making sure this is enforceable. How do you do that, though, Laura
7:12
How do you, because my colleagues, I said, just showed me how incredibly easy it is
7:16
So what is the mechanics by which you can bring about that ban? So we have age gating for things at the moment in this country
7:22
So the Online Safety Act brought in age verification for pornography sites at the moment
7:28
And what we've seen from Ofcom is that's quite effective. It's been working quite well
7:32
The number of young people on these sites has gone down dramatically. That is a positive thing
7:36
So that is what we'll be looking for people to bring in for VPNs and for social media
7:42
It's not clear at the moment what the government is going to do about VPNs
7:46
But those are the kind of details that we're going to be pushing them on next. Well, that was my final question. What is it? Because I remember the Prime Minister saying that they will push for more legislation before Christmas and then implementation early in the new year is what the Prime Minister just said. So what will you and your colleagues, the Conservative Party, what will you be challenging them over
8:02
Well, getting on with it is very important. And we need a fast pace because we know how dangerous social media is. But I think that we need to make sure that we're getting as many sites as possible that pose a danger to children, including YouTube kids. And we've got to make sure this is enforceable. So it includes VPNs
8:17
But children will be safer in the United Kingdom They will be and that is a great thing This one comes in from Pete The social media ban shouldn be expected to work overnight the same way a ban on smoking will because our current flock of children and teenagers are hooked Today five and six
8:31
and the kids that follow will hopefully never get the chance to get hooked on what is this
8:35
effective type of cancer. And that's sign off Pete, a relieved parent. Neil, in Bath, Starmer
8:41
claims a social media ban is really important to young people's lives and will be implemented quickly. Then why will it only be coming nearly three years into his government and seven years
8:48
after you become the Labour leader. The oration does not match the action. Do keep them coming
8:52
Amanda's in High Wycombe. I've got to note that you are a parent. Is that right? How old is your child or how old are your children
8:57
Good morning, Amanda. Hi, yes, I've got a 14-year-old and a nine-year-old
9:04
Right. So, 14-year-old, typical, yes, she's into social media far too much
9:12
Scroll, scroll, scroll, that sort of thing. How much tension does it cause between you and her
9:16
it caused a bit of tension with um yeah myself and um her um my husband but i mean she she's she
9:26
she is fairly good at policing herself i must admit she's very good policing herself what is it that
9:32
you worry about i worry about the um the hours of screen time when you know she's up in a room
9:39
looking at this and it's not what she's necessarily looking at, it's the amount of time
9:46
Well the Prime Minister says it stops children reading, sleeping the right amount
9:50
of time or doing their homework, is he broadly right when he says that? He is broadly right, yes
9:55
I mean she's doing very well at school, she's in high school, she's doing
10:00
very well at school, so that has not been an issue, as I say she's good at
10:04
policing herself, we don't have to tell her to revise and stuff, she just does it herself, she is very
10:08
good at that but I do think that the news was breaking just as she was leaving
10:17
for school this morning and of course we were like delighted she was not so
10:23
she said to me first thing she says to me oh well mum I can just
10:27
get around it by VPN to which her dad said well we can
10:33
knock that off you know so what it is, I do think that it's brilliant that this has been announced, but I do think it's up
10:44
to the parents to enforce it. It's not up to the government to enforce it. They've just given us a
10:48
tool, and the tool is that obviously all her friends are on it. So say that we had said
10:55
individually, right, you can't be on this anymore. She'd have just said, oh, my friends are on it
10:59
and then there's the peer pressure over that. Well, when it's a blanket ban... Do you think what the Prime Minister has just said earlier this hour
11:06
does actually help relieve some of that peer pressure then, Amanda? Totally. Totally. It does
11:12
Because every parent's going to have to make that decision whether or not they enforce it
11:18
And I would... I mean, I don't know, but I would imagine at least 70% of parents
11:24
will definitely welcome it and definitely enforce it. And the other thing is that I do think that..
11:32
I was listening earlier and they were saying about the Australian, one of your callers said about the Australian model
11:37
and they said that some parents were annoyed because their children are influencers
11:44
Well, their children shouldn't be influencers at that age. And there are loads of British families who, in my opinion
11:52
exploit their children to pay their mortgage. Well, that's going to come to an end
11:56
Amanda, thank you for sharing so much. Good luck with that 14-year-old. Challenges, of course, you never stop being a parent
12:02
and the challenges never stop. Amanda, be well. Thank you. Julia's in Bromley. Julia, your take on this
12:06
Good morning. Good morning. I'm coming from the dual perspective of a teacher and a parent
12:12
Okay. What age of children do you teach? I'm actually a primary
12:16
school teacher. You would be amazed at how young children are when they are accessing
12:23
social media. But I think from a teacher's perspective it's been more back and white I think my profession has seen for a long time that this is social media is very corrosive and i think it not just about whether your child doing their homework
12:41
it's about how they feel about themselves as a human being the images that they're seeing
12:47
it's emotionally and psychologically how damaging it is and the addictive nature of scrolling
12:55
on and on and on and on rather than doing something that is
12:59
better for your emotional health. Well, the Prime Minister addressed the addictive nature, didn't he? He also said
13:05
as a result of this, I just want to get his quote right, Britain will become a safer country for our children
13:10
Do you agree with what the Prime Minister said about 40 minutes ago? I do
13:14
And I think it's really nice to hear him saying something decisive and hopefully he'll stick to it and
13:19
this will be a positive direction. And I do think I agree with what he said. I think that just because some teenagers are going to not follow
13:30
the rules, that doesn't mean you don't have rules. And that brings me on to the parents' perspective
13:36
I think having had two children that are now in their 20s and one that's 12
13:43
I feel that my two older children really were, it was like a wild west
13:49
Really? And with my 12-year-old, I felt that a lot of things, it was much, much more protected
14:00
And I feel that parents are also now, they're more aware, like my younger child, that she's not allowed
14:08
If she wants an app on her phone, it will be alerted on my phone and my husband's phone
14:13
I think that's so interesting. It was what one of the earlier, what earlier one of the texters said
14:17
But it's really that generation that they're trying to now protect. Sadly, your children are in their 20s
14:23
They were exposed to all sorts of these threats, weren't they? Steph, as the Prime Minister tells us
14:28
are children in this country safer as a result? Good morning. Hi. My son was definitely a lovely surprise as well
14:33
Oh, all these lovely surprises. Fantastic. I don't know if my parents would say I was lovely all the time
14:39
but I think I had my moments. Same. I breathed a sigh of relief, but it's also too little too late
14:46
My son is just 16. Right. And you touched on earlier about the kind of parenting element
14:52
Yeah. It is probably one of the most tricky parts of parenting right now
14:57
Most fraught, I would imagine. Being really powerless to this greater outside influence
15:03
Yeah. As much as I'm really grateful that it's in there now
15:08
Yeah. For us parents, I've had to kind of navigate that completely blindly
15:13
Yeah. I'm a really invested parent. I do the due diligence. You know, I keep on track of things, but they find ways and they don't have consent
15:20
So my son has had the experience of we can put all the things in place
15:24
And then his friends just kind of show them his phone and go, look at that. See that
15:28
There's no consent there. So you can safeguard yourself. But the outside influence of other people using social media that are older, it's really, really challenging
15:37
It's been quite the journey. The point that some are making, which is sadly it might not be quite enough for your lad
15:47
but parents with children who are like six, seven, eight now, that may be very difficult
15:52
And I'm not saying that that means we don't pay huge attention to your boy, but do you see what I'm saying? We are perhaps protecting the next generation
15:58
Completely there with you. I work in child protection as well. And so this just also professionally makes our jobs so much easier
16:04
And I really wanted to make the point that we can't underestimate the power and the leverage of a law, of the government saying it's banned because as a parent, my son really responds to me saying, here's the line
16:18
And I think that's really important for everyone to remember that we have to have some baseline to then build on
16:24
If it's illegal, I understand the challenge. I don't understand what people are saying if they're against it, but we have to draw the line somewhere and then build on that, all the nuance and context that goes around it
16:36
But being able to hold a really, really clear line with our kids that this is illegal, it works in other areas
16:40
You don't say to your kids, yeah, you can crack on taking drugs and drinking and having underage sex, but that's the line
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