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Which political leader's response to Henry Nowak's case do LBC callers agree with?
Jun 7, 2026
Amid public outcry over how Henry Nowak was treated in his final moments, Nick Ferrari hears from guests and callers. After Nigel Farage and Keir Starmer faced each other in the Commons yesterday, Nick Ferrari asks the LBC audience which political leader speaks for them more on the matter. 00:00 | Nick Ferrari hears from LBC's political editor Natasha Clark 05:00 | Shadow Energy Secretary Claire Coutinho weighs in 08:27 | Reform's Gawain Towler challenges the Tories' record on DEI 11:27 | Caller Kelly is 'ashamed' to admit she supports Farage on this 14:17 | Caller Matthew lost a friend to knife crime 16:52 | Caller Bart says Nigel Farage 'did not cause all these issues' 18:00 | Caller Simon questions the motives of the media in their coverage 21:12 | Caller Michael breaks down the 'ABC policing failures' in the case Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #lbc #nickferrari #henrynowak #nigelfarage #keirstarmer #reform #labour #conservative #kemibadenoch #ukpolitics #crime #policing #politics #dei #uk #uknews #debate LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
With cries of shame and disgrace ringing in his ears
0:03
Nigel Farage spoke at yesterday's Prime Minister's questions and talked about what needs to happen as a result of the tragic death of Henry Novak
0:10
Meanwhile, the Prime Minister, of course, went on the attack, and I'm asking you, who speaks more for you, the PM or Nigel Farage
0:17
when he says he needs an end to this two-tier policing, the importance of diversity training
0:23
Here, with all the background before we come to your views, is Natasha Clarke, LBC's political editor in the studio, with me
0:29
Sasha, good morning. Good morning, Nick. Yes, I think that was one of the most fracturous Prime Minister's question sessions that I've seen in a really long time
0:36
all around the case of Henry Novak and the political reaction to it. Nigel Farage said earlier this week we should respond with pure cold rage to the fact
0:43
that Henry was allowed to die in the way that he did. The police handcuffing him after he was accused by his murderer of a racist attack
0:51
and that shocking body cam footage which we saw on Monday where the police appeared to say that they did not believe that he'd been stabbed
0:58
The outrage, of course, we saw spilled out onto the streets of Southampton on Monday evening
1:02
There were violent clashes between the police and protesters. Nigel Farage used his question at PMQs yesterday to ask Keir Starmer about it
1:10
but he was heckled and booed by fellow MPs who were furious. They accused him of whipping up violence and using the situation for political advantage
1:18
Here was the testy exchange. Nigel Farage. Thank you, Mr Speaker. following the horrendous circumstances of Henry Novak's death
1:29
Can I urge the Prime Minister to consider this? It is now clear to growing millions in this country
1:35
that we're living under two-tier policing. The instructions that are given to police officers
1:44
from police bosses are clear and written down in ink. It says you must treat different ethnic groups in different ways
1:56
That, apart from the upset and the anger at the circumstances of his death
2:02
the anger that you saw spilling out in Southampton last night, and which is in danger
2:17
which is in danger of getting considerably worse if the public lose trust in being treated fairly by the police
2:30
Can he take some action, end this divisive practice of two-tier policing
2:37
and make sure that all British citizens are treated the same? Mr Speaker, I don't believe there's two-tier policing in this country
2:50
I'm really shocked that he pretends to have respect for Henry's family and then acts in this way
2:59
The grieving family have asked us not to respond in the way that the leader of reform has responded
3:06
They've asked us not to. They have lost their son in the most appalling circumstance
3:10
They make a simple plea of us as human beings to please not exploit that
3:17
That is their plea to us. We all need to reflect on those words of Henry's father
3:24
My response, and the response of others, to be fair, has been focused on the lessons to be learned so we can deliver justice
3:33
His response has been to appeal for rage. Rage. That's his response to a father who's lost his son
3:44
and asked for that not to happen. Exploiting this tragedy to create grievance and division
3:50
would be wrong in any circumstances, but to do it when the family are expressly saying
3:55
please don't, is unforgivable. It shows exactly who he is. Now, Nick, on the other hand
4:08
Kemi Badenok and Ed Davey were praised by the Prime Minister for their tone and approach
4:12
Now, Keir Starmer did say, yes, there are questions to answer, but he says we should come together and not seek to exploit these divisions
4:18
He said the government is supporting the police watchdog to get to the bottom of what happened
4:23
including how accusations of racism potentially informed police thinking. Now, yesterday, the chief constable of Hampshire Police
4:30
did apologise to the family for the student being handcuffed and arrested
4:34
Alexis Boone said that he wouldn't be resigning and denied claims of two-tier policing
4:38
And overnight, Nick, we've also had an updated statement from the IOPC watchdog looking into this case
4:43
It's urged people to stop speculating and said they are investigating what happened
4:47
They said the ongoing commentary about the evidence and speculation risks prejudicing any potential processes
4:53
and preventing Henry's family from getting the answers they deserve, Nick. Natasha Clarke, LBC's political editor reporting
5:00
Let's put some of those points to Claire Coutinho, who's a senior Conservative, serves as Shadow Energy Secretary and Shadow Equalities Minister
5:06
Thank you for coming on, Claire Coutinho. Is there two-tier policing in the United Kingdom currently
5:12
Good morning. So I think there is. I think there is a problem across all of our public services
5:17
This is something that I've been talking about for some time, that Kemi Badenot, by the way, has been at the forefront of this fight
5:23
against critical race theory and everything that has gone on. And the problem is this Racism has been weaponised in our public services Our public services have been taught that the worst thing that can happen is racism That is not the worst thing that can happen
5:38
Murder is worse, child abuse is worse, serious public harm is worse
5:42
And what they are being taught to do is prioritise being seen to be anti-racist
5:46
rather than protecting the public from harm. And we saw that in the case of the Southport killer
5:52
We saw that in the case of the Nottingham killer where someone was not institutionalised because they were afraid of being racist
5:56
We saw that in the case of the Manchester bomber, where he was not stopped because someone was afraid of being called racist
6:01
So it has to end. And we have to make sure that we can change these things so that the public can be properly protected
6:07
How? How is it to be changed, Claire? So there are two things. I think the first thing is you have to look at the laws that are in place
6:13
But the second one is about culture. You have to change the ideology so we can get rid of these race action plans
6:19
That's something that we've been campaigning on as the Conservative Party. We should get rid of the things like the Islamophobia definition
6:25
That's something I've been campaigning on within the Conservative Party. But it will just re-emerge with another name unless you root out the ideology
6:33
The ideology that is telling our public servants who are meant to protect the public from harm that something else is more important
6:39
And the one thing I would just say about reform, I think you were talking about whether reform is right or not
6:44
Yes, I'm about to ask my listeners who speaks for them, the PM or Mr Farage
6:48
Well, let me tell you, they are both wrong because Keir Starmer is saying there is no such thing happening in our public services
6:54
That is wrong. that is something that I've been highlighting, other people in my party have been highlighting
6:59
There is clearly something going badly wrong. And then you've got Nigel, who is talking about
7:03
people being angry, saying we've got to get rid of it. But where have they been? Where have they
7:07
been? Reform MPs have been nowhere on the Islamophobia definition. It has been the
7:11
Conservatives leading the fight. So when there has been this opportunity for change to say we
7:16
have to do things differently, they have not been doing that hard work. And now they are trying to
7:19
capitalise on people's anger. I think both of those positions are wrong. Only Kemi Beinok has
7:24
been at the forefront of doing the work to fight against this ideology and also understanding that
7:30
there is a problem that we need to solve for the public here. Finally as a senior and experienced
7:35
parliamentarian your view of what Mr Farage was saying yesterday is he trying to seize on a tragedy
7:40
make political capital is he at least speaking for some of the population how would you define
7:46
it Claire Coutinho? So it's exactly as I said of course there is something going wrong with our
7:50
public services. You know, as I said, I've been making that case. Kemi Badenock, she's been at
7:55
the forefront of making that case for years. And actually what they've done this week, tried to
8:00
twist her words, pretend that she's been someone that she's not, has been completely wrong. And to
8:05
me, that is people who are trying to capitalise on the politics of the issue, rather than do what
8:10
leaders are meant to do, which is understand the emotions of the public, why they feel this sense
8:14
of gross injustice, and also to show them the way out to show that we are going to deliver change
8:20
Grateful for your time this morning. Thank you. Claire Coutinho, Shadow Energy Secretary, Shadow Equality Minister
8:25
Conservative MP, 12 After 7. Listening to that is Gawain Toler, who's member of Reform UK's board
8:31
He has been a close friend and advisor to Nigel Farage for more than two decades
8:35
and joins me now. Can we clarify, Mr Toler, does Nigel Farage condemn the violence down in Southampton
8:41
Yes, and he did so in the house. MPs are shouting at him
8:45
He did so in his statement yesterday. Gawain, just to talk about, sorry, but MPs are shouting, condemn the violence, condemn the violence
8:49
are they on to something there in your view? Not in the slightest
8:53
He did absolutely in his statement that he made, the public statement he made yesterday
8:58
You have a very short time at PMQs and he was asking a very important question of the Prime Minister
9:05
But they would silence him, they would have him not represent the people he was elected by
9:10
and the people that support the party and many beyond who are absolutely outraged by what's happened
9:17
Absolutely outraged. I'm sorry, I listened to Claire just now. Go ahead
9:21
And her claiming, who is it that set up the various bodies
9:27
Who is it that brought through this legislation that embedded DEI into every aspect of our national life
9:33
It was the Conservatives. And I'm glad, I'm delighted that Claire and others in her party are now joining us to campaign against this
9:41
But where were they? Where were they? And I wasn't going to bang on about the Tories, but by goodness what she was saying
9:48
was so much, it was almost gaslighting. Yes, I'm delighted they're on board now
9:52
There is more joy in heaven. However, however, to claim that they weren't involved
9:57
with setting up the College of Policing, which embedded this attitude within the police service
10:03
and the police forces of our country, it's just for the birds. Can I ask you, lastly, to those who say
10:10
that Mr Farage is seeking to gain political capital out of the murder of a teenager, how would you respond
10:16
well i think and this is a very awkward and difficult and and it's a subtle point i think
10:23
um i don't know if you've seen that members of henry nowak's family have been publicly uh
10:30
reposting things like robert jenrich's uh complaints to shabama mahmoud um i don't know
10:35
if you've seen that so the family clearly are very annoyed but mr novak's father did it was
10:41
was a wonderful his statement was measured and decent and responsible however the murder of
10:48
henry novak affects everybody in this country and the prime minister and others cannot gatekeep
10:55
the public response to this by just citing the family that murder it did not just kill a member of that family it struck at the heart of civil society And to try and silence people because of the pain of one family is wrong
11:13
Grateful as ever for your time. Thank you. Gawain Toler, your member of the Reform UK's board you've worked with and been a divisor to
11:19
Nigel Farage, for more than 20 years, which prompts the question, who's speaking for you yesterday, the Prime Minister or Mr Farage
11:27
Kelly, thank you for calling. I love your town, by the way, Marlow. I think it's absolutely stunning
11:31
Who speaks to you, Mr Farage or Sir Keir? Good morning. Good morning, Nick
11:35
Thank you for taking my call. As I explained to your producer
11:40
on this occasion, to my shame, because I feel quite shameful, I'm supportive of Nigel Farage
11:46
Why do you feel shameful about that, Kelly? I've always been... I like to think that I'm liberal, open-minded
11:53
I've always been against a lot of his policies, a lot of what he stands for
11:58
And that's just my personal view. I've never really got him. You know, he isn't my company, as it were
12:07
But in this instance, I do believe the man is speaking. So why? Why has he nailed it for you
12:13
What's he said that resonates with you who are not necessarily a natural Farage supporter
12:19
I think there is a lot of truth in what he's saying. I have three youngish adults now that are not clustered as children
12:26
A few years ago, my son was in a park with a few of his friends
12:32
He was moved on by the police for apparently causing trouble, which he wasn't
12:37
There was cameras in the park that we did look at afterwards. It never went any further
12:43
He was accused of drinking, I don't know, Ben Leary. He probably was. He's no angel
12:48
You know, teenage boys, they're not perfect. Yeah, they're not. There was another group of people who were moved by the police
12:55
There was a group across from them that were smoking weed and throwing stones at various wildlifeers
13:02
If you know Marlowe in the park there. I do know Marlowe. Beautiful
13:05
Yeah, throwing, you know, the swans. My son and his friends were not
13:13
and I do believe that the police were quite, almost frightened to say anything to the other group
13:20
who were non-white. And then the racist card does, And I do think people are generally fearful
13:27
have been accused of being racist. I've had an incident with Henry Novak
13:31
Yes. So lastly, Kelly, what needs to come out of this tragic murder
13:37
What needs to change, Kelly? Well, firstly, we need to have platforms like..
13:42
..where the general public can air what they feel and it needs to be taken on board
13:48
If one person says something, it might just be an opinion. If there's multiple people saying the same thing
13:53
There is something fundamentally wrong, isn't there, with policing in this country
13:58
where people are frightened that they're going to be accused of things
14:02
I think, Kelly, I'm so grateful for your call, because for someone to say
14:06
look, I don't actually normally find for Nigel Farage, I like to think of myself as a Liberal
14:11
but on this he is right. That's exactly the sort of call we needed to start off this conversation
14:15
Kelly, I'm grateful. Good luck with you and your family. Matthew in Brixton. Matthew, your story
14:19
You're on the radio. Good morning. Hi, good morning. yeah I'm in Brixton but I grew up in Hampshire oh right okay yeah so um it's like growing up in
14:28
Hampshire I mean I did uh lose a friend who was stabbed to death or killed so you know it's quite
14:33
sorry so it's a it's an emotive thing but what I was really going to mention about was
14:39
how when I was 15 in Hampshire I was arrested for stealing a bike which actually I hadn't stolen
14:47
and was borrowing from a friend so I could get to the shop. They didn't believe what I was saying
14:52
They arrested me. They didn't get an appropriate adult there, so there was no appropriate adult present
14:57
which there should be if you're, as far as I understand, under 18. I thought that was grossest, yeah
15:02
Yeah, so that didn't happen. So they make mistakes, and they didn't believe me when I told them my age
15:10
They didn't believe me when I told them that it was my friend's bike. it wasn't until they you know they did they made some calls to his mum and stuff like that
15:18
they finally believed me but um but are we saying back in the 1990s this two-tier policing was
15:25
was was was there and it was thriving i don't think so and i think mojo farage is really
15:32
trying to politicize this and he was asked not to by by the father of the lad i think it's
15:37
It's cruel and it's very insensitive. And I get that people are going to notice things that look unfair, etc
15:45
And I'm not in a place to say how the police are trained, because I don't know. But basically, the fact that he's jumped on this with fervour
15:54
I think it's just really out of order, because... So you suggest that the PM, Sir Keir, probably speaks more for you, Matthew
16:01
than does Mr Farage? Neither of them speak for me. I speak for myself
16:06
No, but would you accord with either of their views on this? I would definitely not go with Mojo Farage
16:12
because he's just stirring up. All he's doing, from my point of view
16:17
as someone who's been arrested by Hampshire police at that age, someone who's had a friend who's stabbed
16:22
I'm just telling you that this guy, he's putting up a nice show to get people on board
16:26
with some stuff that's really nasty and divisive. I live in Brixton now. It's a very diverse area
16:31
It is. I not having any issues Okay OK I got to move on but I wonder What ultimately happened with the erroneous claim that you nicked your mate bicycle They dropped it did they Yeah they dropped it and the next day I told my parents
16:44
and my parents weren't happy, because, you know, there should have been an adult there when I was in the police station
16:50
I must leave it there, Matthew, for time reasons. Thank you. Let's talk about why Mr Farage speaks for you, sir
16:55
Go ahead, Bart. Because he did not cause all this. That in Southampton, which is the ice and the cake
17:00
he did not cause that. This has been building up for so long. I worked in security for 30 years
17:05
Oh, right. And anyone who works in security would say the same thing. You detain a person of colour
17:10
the first thing they come out with is, you're racist, and the police go with that
17:13
Well, that was Hashem Abadi, the Manchester... Do you remember that story? Where the security guard said
17:19
I had a bad feeling about that bloke who went on to launch... But he was a minority, so I didn't want to stop him
17:27
Oh, I haven't seen that one. No, that's true. Hashem Abadi, a security guard..
17:31
You remember the guy who blew up the Manchester Arena and killed those people? Yes, yeah. A security guard sees him with his backpack and thinks
17:37
I don't like the look of this, but I can't stop him because he's a minority and I'll get into trouble
17:42
What needs to change, lastly, Bart? The police attitude. It is two-tier policing
17:47
I say, every time you stop a person of colour, straight away, you're racist. And now we've got Sadiq Khan on LBC last night
17:53
saying that the police deal with things, deal with protests fairly. They don't
17:59
We go to Australia. Simon in Brisbane. G'day, Simon. Who do you think was speaking
18:05
not necessarily for you in Australia, but for the United Kingdom? Good morning. Hi, Nick
18:10
Yeah, good to speak with you. Good afternoon. Well, Nigel Farage, for me
18:15
I think, look, I was incredibly emotional seeing the footage that came out
18:20
I woke up on Tuesday morning, maybe it was, and it was the first thing I saw, and it's just horrific
18:24
But once again, the media, and not necessarily you guys, that parts of the media and the political class are desperate to deflect from the real issues
18:33
And, you know, rather than debating the things that quite clearly need to change
18:38
as a consequence of what's happened, it's all about isn't Nigel Farage a bad guy again
18:43
because he's sort of got the balls to stand up and say some of the things that need to be said
18:48
So what are the real issues as you see them then, Simon? Well, I wanted to pick up on this point about politicising the issue
18:56
Well, if you want things to change, then it's political. It should be political right now, because why isn't Parliament right now
19:07
passing laws to make it an offence for everybody to carry a weapon
19:13
How is it acceptable that one community can carry a dangerous weapon for whatever reason
19:20
Is that not in itself an example of a two-tier... I just want to clarify, Simon, that you will come back
19:25
The weapon that the Sikh man used is illegal because it is roughly about six-something inches in length
19:36
The kirpan typically is one inch and is worn as part of a Sikh's faith
19:42
So it wasn't the knife he would have worn as part of his faith. It was an additional knife he was carrying
19:46
Simon. OK, but it's still not quite a one-size-fits-all approach, is it
19:51
Some people can carry a one-inch blade or whatever it is. It's still an example of there being a difference
19:58
And my main point is that the political class wants to move on. They want to paint Farage as the bad guy because it's all just too difficult
20:05
And to your point, if I was to suddenly start a faith in which we were allowed to carry shotguns
20:10
would we be allowed to do that? And I think the answer would probably be no, we don't respect your faith
20:14
You're not walking around with a loaded shotgun. Nick, the DEI stuff is clearly an issue, right
20:20
we've all seen in the last couple of days the things that the police are being told
20:24
and I would just suggest that these pages on the Hampshire Force website
20:28
and any other force website where they've got hundreds or thousands of words about their race
20:33
action plans, this, that or the other can all just be replaced by
20:36
six words we police without fear or favour, that should be the
20:42
full stop, you do not need action plans for certain race groups everyone is the same. Finally
20:48
you've got these sort of issues down under in Oz or not? Well, I think increasingly so
20:55
There's a big cultural divide here too. There is a so-called, what people might call a populist..
21:00
Do you have DEI? Do you have DEI issues in Oz, Simon
21:05
I would say it's very, very similar, yeah. OK. Look after yourself. Have a good day
21:09
Talk again soon. Michael's in Acton. Michael, what do you say to that
21:14
Good morning. Good morning, Nick. Thank you for having me on the show. That's a good answer. Oh, yeah, I mean, it's the most upsetting case
21:21
that I've seen for an extremely long time. I mean, you know, I don't usually agree much with Farage
21:26
but he's absolutely right with pure cold rage. Because when I saw that webcam footage, it was just horrific
21:32
What needs to happen, Michael? Well, you have to... I mean, I do believe there's a two-tier policing
21:38
You can see from that video very clearly that the ABC of policing failed. Assume nothing, believe nothing, challenge everything
21:44
They believe this guy... he was racist and they went and handcuffed him and then and then the actual murderer wasn't
21:51
handcuffed after he was um uh taken to the station so the victim i mean i had no i've never seen
21:59
something more of an abject failure of policing and hopefully this will be a benchmark my thoughts
22:04
and prayers go out to the noak family on this very very difficult occasion michael thanks for
22:10
your comments on that have yourself a safe day
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