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On tonights Cross Question the question at hand is: how should Andy Burnham deal with Trump? But does Trump even know who Burnham is? Is Trump ready for a Northern leader. Will he 'struggle with the accent'? Simon Mark's panel later go onto dicuss how the Americans going to stop the Israelis breaking the ceasefire, and does Burnham have a role to play in helping. Tonights panel consists of Labour Mayor of South Yorkshire Oliver Coppard, Conservative MP for Mid Buckinghamshire Greg Smith, former Head of News and Current Affairs at Channel 4 Dorothy Byrne, and William Atkinson, the Assistant Content Editor of The Spectator. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #CrossQuestion #Trump #LBC #simonmarks #andyburnham #labour #politics #ukpolitics #Israel LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Our next question comes from Amy in Cambridge on text, who asks, how should Burnham treat Trump
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who'd probably never even heard of him until he saw him on Fox News this morning
0:13
Greg Smith, how should Andy Burnham treat Donald Trump? First of all, we've got to acknowledge that Trump is incredibly unpredictable
0:22
And Trump doesn't treat anyone else the same way from one day to the next
0:26
So from that perspective, no world leader actually has a blueprint for dealing with the current president of the United States
0:33
But he is the president of the United States. And therefore, any incoming prime minister needs to build a rapport in the way that Starmer did in the early days of his premiership
0:43
And that's sort of fallen apart in the last six months or so
0:47
So if it is Andy Burnham or anyone else becoming prime minister after the Labour leadership
0:52
election, they need to go to Washington and try and have a rational conversation
0:56
But the problem with that, as I said at the start of my comments, is don't expect the
1:01
answer to still be the same the day after. Oliver Coppard, I spend most of my life living in Washington, as you know, and I'm not sure
1:10
how Donald Trump, and I mean this respectfully, but seriously, I don't know how Donald Trump
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is going to deal with a British Prime Minister who has the accent that Andy Burnham has
1:22
You know, when the King's in Donald Trump's presence, when Keir Starmer's in Donald Trump's presence
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he invariably praises them for their elocution. Do you think Donald Trump is ready for a Northerner
1:36
I just hope Andy wears a suit. That's my big concern. No, I think, look, I think the interesting thing is
1:43
the difference between how Donald Trump has treated some members of the Democratic Party
1:50
and how he treated, for instance, Mamdani. So there is an element there of kind of respecting delivery and respecting success
1:57
And Andy coming in on the back of Makerfield, I hope on the back of a significant amount
2:01
of support from the PLP and maybe even the Labour movement, should show Donald Trump
2:07
that he's dealing with someone who wins. And I think that's what Donald Trump may or may not respect
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But look, ultimately, he's going to be dealing with a different Donald Trump
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So the one that Keir had to deal with. Keir dealt with a Donald Trump who came back in after four years in the wilderness and with a reinvigorated mandate
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He's going to be dealing with, I think, I imagine, a Donald Trump at the end of his presidency and probably with the midterms of the going the wrong way
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So I think it's a different Donald Trump that Andy will be confronted with. William Atkinson, the king of the north is not the kind of regal figure that Donald Trump normally is particularly attracted by
2:45
Well, I think ultimately Donald Trump respects strength, right? And one of the reasons why his relationship with Keir Starmer tailed off was because Keir Starmer was increasingly embattled at home and also because he was unable to put his money where his mouth is
2:58
You know, Trump has been consistent. You know, he may be unpredictable on a day to day level, but he has nonetheless been consistent for quite a long time on wanting European countries to spend more on their defence
3:06
It was Keir Starmer's inability to stump up on that. That was one of the reasons why he undermines you know our so special relationship And I think if Andy Burnham is willing to find the funds to go beyond the defence investment plan and prove that Britain is serious about speaking loudly and also carrying a large stick then Donald Trump would respect that more than essentially what I think Andy Burnham is
3:25
going to go in, which is completely unprepared, somebody with no previous interest in foreign
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affairs and all of his time in politics, only to be humiliated by Trump again and again. And again
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Trump is embattled on the domestic front, and the Iran war has been a great humiliation for him
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But nonetheless, you know, he is still the nominal leader of the free world. And I think Andy Byrne was going to turn up at the Oval Office and be roundly humiliated, a bit like various other sort of predecessors have been
3:48
I think, unfortunately for Britain, until we get serious about defence, until we're able to stand tall and able to wean ourselves off the tit of the Americans
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then we're always going to have every prime minister having to be a supplicant to the president of the United States
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But it is not preordained, that outcome, Dorothy Byrne, because we all thought when Zoran Mamdani went into the Oval Office
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is he was going to be on the receiving end of a Zelensky-style drubbing and it turned out to be a love-in
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How you behave towards a deranged narcissist is almost certainly irrelevant because he is just thinking about himself
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OK, you could spend as much as you like on defence and we should have spent more
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But it was because we didn't agree to support the immoral and ludicrous war against Iran, which has been a total failure
4:40
If Trump dares to call Starmer a failure, he is the much greater failure in his catastrophic war on Iran
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So you can never please a deranged narcissist. And Andy Burnham, I have got to say, has got an absolutely beautiful accent
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And as it happens, Trump's family comes from the north of Scotland and they have beautiful accents
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So I think that he will love his accent. All right. Well, we'll find out about that. But will he love his policies on immigration and energy
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Well, almost certainly not. If you look at the cost of energy in America compared to the cost of energy in the United Kingdom, Trump is not going to respect the UK for a very, very long time. But I think there's a serious point on the defence spending side of things. Because Trump, as I said in my first remarks, is so unpredictable, there is a risk he pulls the United States out of NATO. And if that happens, the world suddenly becomes an even more dangerous place
5:46
So if Burnham can't come to the table with that serious extra wedge of cash for defence that gets us up to the newly agreed 5%, if you include building bridges and things like that, then I think Trump is going to laugh him out of the room
6:01
All right, let's go to the phone lines. Ben is on the phone from Clacton with our next question for the panel. Ben, good evening
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Good evening. Good evening, panel. My question is, how are the American government going to stop Israel from spoiling the ceasefire completely every time they reach agreement
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Ben thanks for the question William Atkinson it is a big question and there will be many listeners out there that will want to make the point that it not just Israel that breaking the ceasefire it Hezbollah that is also breaking the ceasefire Well and this comes back to the sort of fundamental position that Israel in right
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which is the question of Iran, its regional proxies are existential for them. You know, the Iranian state is committed, as long as the current regime remains in place
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which alas it does, to wiping Israel off the face of the earth. And so whatever ceasefires agree between the United States and Iran
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Israel will always take action to preserve its own existence. And whether that means, I think, in the traditional Israeli fashion
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of making a desert and calling it peace. I think that is an extension of, again
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just how existential these stakes are for it. And I think if the relationship between Donald Trump
7:06
and Benjamin Netanyahu sufficiently deteriorated, if the historically incredibly tight relationship with the United States and Israel has deteriorated
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to the extent in which the United States were willing to stop all support for Israel militarily
7:18
sort of diplomatically, economically, etc., then the Americans might be able to stop the Israelis from acting
7:23
I don't know. But certainly I don't think, you know, as long as Israel believes that ceasefire isn't in its interest
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the Israelis can be stopped from taking action. Oliver Coppard? I mean, I think there's a lot of truth in that
7:33
I think the Israelis have to be very, the Israeli government have to be very careful
7:38
about what happens next in American politics, because even Donald Trump seems to be distancing himself
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somewhat from Benjamin Netanyahu, let alone who may follow him on a democratic ticket
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because there is a huge amount of anger in America and in American communities that are represented by the Democrats
7:56
So I do think that Israel is playing quite a dangerous game
8:00
with its relationship with even America in the way that they are approaching this ceasefire
8:05
and seemingly not adhering to it in a way that America would seem to want them to
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Greg Smith. I've got a lot of sympathy with what William said at the start of this
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At the end of the day, Israel is a nation defending itself, not just defending itself from threats on every border
8:19
but defending its very existence. Its very existence. And yes, you've got Hezbollah in Lebanon, you've got the IGC in Iran, you've got Hamas in Gaza, you've got Palestinian Islamic Jihad
8:31
They literally face a threat on every border. And the rockets always start in the direction of Israel, not the other way round
8:41
And so it's very easy for people to beat up on Israel for defending themselves. And the media worldwide like to beat up on Israel
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But there is a reality. This is a country fighting for its right to even be there in the first place
8:53
And when you look at some of the hate marches on the streets of London with the anti-Semitic tropes and the rise in anti-Semitism that affects Jewish communities here in the United Kingdom, off the back of that, the South Buckinghamshire Jewish community in my own constituency that face ridiculous costs of securing themselves when they meet to worship and to congregate
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congregate, we've really got to question whether the narrative that is going on here is in any way
9:21
shape or form balanced and recognizing the severe threat Israel faces. And there will be an election
9:27
in Israel at the end of this year. And so to the point about, well, future relationships and so on
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actually, if you look at Israeli politics, left and right are pretty united in the terms of
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defending themselves Netanyahu put up in the media as the bad guy etc all the time President Herzog is absolutely in lockstep with him and President Herzog is a socialist Right but Benjamin Netanyahu is running into significant difficulty in that election campaign that coming up
9:56
And Dorothy Byrne, it is perfectly possible that Lebanon and the issues that exist there are going to be the Achilles heel of this deal
10:04
given the unwillingness of the Trump administration ever to say to the Israelis
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if you carry on doing that, we're cutting the weapons supplies. These are Trump's wars. Trump's government is supplying the money and the weapons to make these wars possible
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20% of the people of Lebanon have been displaced. 90% of the people of Gaza have been displaced
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If Trump wanted to stop these terrible things happening, he could do them tomorrow, because it is America who is supplying the money and the weapons to make these horrific events happening
10:49
And it is America who joined with Iran, with Israel to attack Iran
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Obama had made a deal with Iran. Trump abandoned that deal. So Trump and Israel have behaved in utterly disgraceful and reprehensible ways
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nobody disputes that a country has the right to defend itself. Destroying 90% of the homes of
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people in Gaza is not a way to defend yourself. Destroying 20% of the homes of people in Lebanon
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is not the way to defend yourself. And you can criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic
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I condemn anti-Semitism totally and I condemn the actions of Israel in Gaza, Iran and Lebanon
11:56
William? Well, I agree on the sort of fundamental point that one can sort of criticise Israeli actions and not be anti-Semitic
12:04
And also, I think looking at the domestic politics in both countries, I mean, it's quite interesting
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is there is increasing sort of rejection of support for Israel on both sort of the democratic side
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but more importantly, the Republican side in US politics, according to recent polling. But again, you know, there is a cross-party rejection
12:20
of the ceasefire within Israeli politics. And again, this is only going to force the tension
12:24
between the United States and Israel further apart. And, you know, again, one may be critical of Israel's methods
12:31
but again, this is a country that is fighting for its survival. And whether we like it or not, you know
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the rules of international affairs don't often conform to, shall we say, the niceties that those of us in a TV or a radio studio would want them to
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And so as a consequence, Israel will always take the action that Israel requires to ensure its survival
12:48
in the same way that the Iranians, as long as they remain in place, will take the action to try and wipe the Jewish state off the face of the air
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And this issue of shifting public opinion in the United States is going to be a massive political factor
12:59
in the midterm elections in November and then in the 2028 presidential election
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