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Labour MP Catherine West says if a cabinet minister does not challenge Keir Starmer as party leader by Monday she will throw her hat in the ring. 0:00 | Natasha Devon reacts to the leadership challenge 0:23| Aggie Chambre has the latest 3:11 | Starmer stands firm that he 'won't walk away' 3:55 | Aggie explains what's next 9:03 | David thinks Starmer should 'go and go quickly' 13:11 | Chris says Labour should 'not rush into things' 16:18 | Labour MP Richard Burgon: Starmer should go by the end of the year The MP for Hornsey and Friern Barnet said she would rather a frontbencher launch the bid to avoid a leadership contest. But she issued a two-day deadlibne to the cabinet and warned if she fails to hear back by Monday she will ask Labour MPs to back her and trigger a leadership election. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #natashadevon #aggiechambre #keirstarmer #labour #elections #localelections #ukpolitics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
The Labour MP for Hornsey and Fren Barnett, who is called Catherine West
0:04
she has issued essentially an ultimatum to the Labour Party. She said somebody is to issue a leadership challenge to Keir Starmer by Monday morning, or she will
0:15
She doesn't want to be leader of the Labour Party, we don't think. She's just trying to force a situation where Keir Starmer's leadership is challenged
0:23
Very pleased to be joined in the studio by Agi Chombray, who's LBC's Deputy Political Editor
0:28
Thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it. Fill us in on what we know so far about this
0:34
So Catherine West, who has been a Labour MP since 2015, she was a junior Foreign Office Minister between July 24 and September 2025
0:44
has essentially issued an ultimatum to the Cabinet and told BBC Radio this
0:52
But we need someone from within the Cabinet to step forward as the leader and then we will have a new leader of the party without having to have a leadership election
1:01
If that cannot happen and there are no leadership hopefuls who come forward tomorrow
1:07
then Monday morning I will put my name forward to stand for the leader of the Labour Party
1:13
and I will be seeking the 81 names that are needed to take to the party chair
1:16
and I will begin a leadership election. She said that she already has 10 names
1:23
She said that's because she only thought about this this morning, because no one else who is a genuine hopeful is coming forward
1:30
But she says if she has to do it herself, she's confident that enough people would come forward to trigger the beginning
1:35
The beginning, Natasha, is 81 names. From the conversations that I've had in the last hour or so since she did this interview, Labour MPs think it is unlikely that she will get to 81
1:49
Of course, nothing is impossible. Some Labour MPs rather scathing about it, suggesting there's no strategy
1:57
And I've spoken to government sources who don't think this is orchestrated. They think she's acting as a lone wolf
2:04
But one Labour MP told me, whatever her ploy is, it's counterproductive
2:08
But I think it's worth laying out what happens if she gets 81 names
2:12
And that's effectively, she will challenge the Prime Minister. And I think at that stage, if she were to get over the thresholds
2:19
if indeed she were to enter the race on Monday, which I think is likely that she would enter the race on Monday
2:25
because I don't think the Cabinet will decide a new leader amongst themselves
2:29
before Monday morning. Then it would launch a real leadership contest and imagine other contenders would then enter the race
2:37
But worth stressing, I think from everyone I've spoken to so far, that is unlikely but nothing impossible
2:43
And we have heard from many, many Labour MPs, I think almost 40 now, including Catherine Meiss
2:50
who think either Keir Starmer should stand down or that he should set out a timetable
2:55
And if things have not changed significantly by a certain date, be that months or a year, then he should stand down at that point
3:02
The Prime Minister, though, has been clear multiple times that he doesn't want to walk away
3:07
He was asked this morning whether or not he would resign or set out a timetable
3:12
It's very important that we do reflect on what was a tough set of results
3:16
But I'm not going to walk away and plunge the country into chaos. I think the right thing to do is to rebuild and show the path forward
3:26
We did make a number of really important calls in the last couple of years
3:31
about stabilising the economy, investing in our public services, not getting drawn into the war in Iran
3:37
We need to couple to that the arguments we're making about hope and the future
3:42
about young people, about place. And so I will be setting out those arguments, but more than anything, setting out with clarity the values and convictions that drive me
3:55
So on Monday, we are going to hear a big speech from the prime minister where he is going to talk, according to him there, about his values and his convictions
4:04
He's already said overnight that he doesn't think the party should tack to the left or to the right
4:10
But I think that is really a make or break moment for him on Monday and a lot rides on whether or not he can convince his parliamentary party that things can change
4:23
It's an extraordinary thing she's done, isn't it? I mean, particularly given the timetable that we're working with here
4:29
She's given effectively her colleagues an evening and then a Sunday in order to do the impossible
4:36
Otherwise, she's going to launch this bid. What is she thinking? Well, she's thinking that she wants Keir Starmer to go
4:43
And I think there are concerns within some people in the Labour Party
4:47
who want Keir Starmer to go, that nothing will happen. Fears, I say, specifically for them because they think that he should go
4:57
And instead, they think there'll be, and I quote, a painful stasis rather than him going
5:03
And I suspect that is the position that she is coming from as well
5:07
that she wants something to happen and she thinks that maybe she can force the issue by getting herself on the ballot paper
5:14
The tricky thing for her will be actually getting herself onto the ballot paper
5:19
As I say, from people I've spoken to, it sounds unlikely that she will get those 81 names
5:24
The process is a bit murky, but Labour and Peers I've spoken to think that
5:29
if she were to get herself on the ballot paper, the people that had backed her could then change to back other people
5:37
if there was an actual leadership contest later down the line. But she seems to be a stalking horse figure at the moment
5:45
designed basically to weaken the Prime Minister. I don't think anyone is suggesting for a second that she, as you say
5:50
wants to be leader or is going to be leader. That is not going to happen. But she is trying to get rid of the current leader
5:56
I think eyes very much on the former Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner
6:01
who still has said absolutely nothing since those disastrous set of election results
6:07
uh on friday or thursday night friday today and on and from andy burnham we don't expect the
6:12
greater manchester mayor to actually say anything over the weekend um but those two plus west
6:18
streeting who he said last night that he's backed uh the pm the pm had his support but then didn't
6:23
answer questions about whether or not the pm should still be in place by the next general election so eyes on angela rayner andy burnham to see if they do anything to see if anyone else
6:32
comes out now that Catherine West has effectively fired an unexpected starting gun. But I think
6:38
probably what will happen is she probably won't get the names. But on Monday, I don't think the
6:44
Cabinet will have replaced the Prime Minister. I'm not sure they could really replace the Prime
6:48
Minister if he doesn't want to go anyway. But this was really unexpected and kind of shows the
6:53
twists and turns and the unhappiness really in some parts of the Labour Party, in the majority
6:57
of the Labour Party. And when asked she did refuse to give her preference as to who would replace Keir Starmer But is there a possibility that she could be working in tandem with one of the challenges to Keir Starmer leadership and so they could effectively move in now without people accusing them of not having any loyalty
7:16
Yes, there is absolutely a possibility of that. And you know, that famous phrase
7:21
he who yields the knife never wears the crown. However, government sources I've spoken to
7:27
think it's not orchestrated, think there is not a strategy, think that she is a lone wolf
7:33
Government sources may be wrong. Government sources have been wrong before. But I think
7:39
it has taken Westminster by surprise. But that's absolutely, you know, a tried and tested strategy
7:45
Michael Heseltine, of course, in 1990, put himself forward, not really as a traditional
7:52
uh stalking horse um but but he kind of put himself forward uh first um so there is precedent
8:00
and that can very much happen um and i think we will have to just wait and see over the over the
8:05
weekend and see how kia starmer does on monday to find out what is going to happen next to
8:11
this beleaguered leader is there a world where kia starmer emerges out of this even stronger or
8:16
fortified in some way? I would be very, very surprised because I think it has been extremely
8:25
damaging and I think that Labour MPs were prepared intellectually for how bad this result was going
8:32
to be. But emotionally, I mean, losing their candidates, their councillors, losing councils
8:40
that have been with Labour for decades, I think has been so painful
8:47
Having said that, Labour MPs, like many politicians, change their mind a lot
8:52
and they don't have one solitary answer for what they want to happen next
8:57
which makes it all very, very changeable and makes it all very, very difficult to predict
9:03
I agree that Starmer really has to go because I don't think he has any political leadership
9:10
and he doesn't really have a vision. You know, people don't know what Labour stand for now
9:15
And I think it is a, you know, I think the results, so it is almost like an existential crisis for him
9:21
But I think, you know, Labour, you know, they lost votes, but mostly their votes went to either progressive parties
9:29
or people stayed at home. I think research shows not that many went to reform
9:34
so it can be recovered. The problem is the people that put Stammer in place
9:39
the Labour Together faction, the right-wing faction, they hollowed out a lot of the talent in the Labour Party
9:45
And that creates a problem. But I do think he should go, and I think he should go quickly
9:52
And the only people within the current Labour Party, Angela Raymer is compromised because of the tax investigation
10:02
But I would think, you know, this might sound odd, but I think probably Ed Miliband would be somebody
10:07
or Clive Lewis from the left, they have leadership qualities. And I know the right-wing press would hate them
10:14
but I wouldn't worry too much about that. Really? No, because I think if you have a coherent narrative
10:23
and you can portray where you want to go and have some policies
10:30
I think that can be overcome now. I don't think Stammer can do that
10:34
Well, you'd have to have a hell of a social media team, I think
10:37
I mean, if you look at what the right wing press are attempting to do at the moment with Zach Polanski
10:44
somebody who, whatever you think of him, has a very clear vision and is a very skilled communicator
10:50
What he does have on his side, though, is the ability to get his message across via alternative methods, mainly via social media
10:58
But I think what these local elections have shown is the extent to which the general public are still, to an extent, at the mercy of tabloid narratives
11:09
Yeah, I think that's true to an extent. But I think if you can, you know, convey something of, you know, sort of, you know, an economic policy
11:21
and you know because I think one of the sad things is you know the current government have done some quite
11:27
decent things but they've not been able to communicate them because they started
11:31
off so badly by following you know Tory fiscal rules and hedging on things
11:37
like the you know the winter fuel allowance and the child benefit
11:40
so it got into people's minds that you know they weren't really
11:45
standing up for people and all that and I think that is hard
11:49
to change but I think it is possible and I think Labour, you know
11:53
like I've got a lot of resentment to say Labour, but I think, you know, if you look at the demographic
11:59
you know, the way the political system, they're probably the only people that can stop a reformed government
12:05
So I think it has to be done, you know, because I think... Well, yeah, I think you could be right
12:10
because I was listening to some ysis on my colleague James O'Brien's show earlier in the week
12:15
and what he was saying and others too that were contributing to the show
12:19
was that Keir Starmer, as you quite rightly say, David, did try to follow a reform blueprint in many respects
12:27
particularly on immigration, thinking that the core vote of Labour, those who are left-leaning, would have nowhere else to go
12:35
and saying, well, if you don't like it, leave. Then Zak Polanski came along
12:39
and gave those people another place to place their vote. And many did choose to leave in their droves
12:46
So Labour is now in a position where they're hemorrhaging support from both sides
12:50
And I don't know whether Keir Starmer can ever win back the trust of those core voters
12:56
who saw him give that Island of Strangers speech or announced that they were going to go after disabled people
13:03
to try and reduce the welfare state. All of these things which felt so fundamentally unlaboured
13:09
I wouldn't rush into things just yet. I was labour. I would slick the ruins a bit, understand what really happened
13:18
and then get around the table and hash it out, to be honest. And, you know, whether that's likely to happen is anybody's guess, hence the news today
13:27
But my opinion would be maybe they should not rush into things because it looks like a panic-induced hit
13:39
And plan things out and maybe, you know, agree internally a structure and a plan forward
13:45
They're going to change and why. and then announce it at the conference
13:51
I agree with you that if things are done at the behest of Catherine West
13:56
an MP that very few people have heard of, it will look like panic
14:01
and that they may not arrive at the best decision. But bear in mind
14:06
all that Catherine West is hoping to trigger is a leadership contest It not like a replacement will be announced on Monday morning There will be an opportunity for all of the candidates to put forward their
14:18
case to the Labour membership. A vote will take place. I think the biggest problem that the Labour
14:24
party face is that, Andy Burnham aside, who at the moment isn't eligible to qualify for leadership
14:31
there is nobody who the Labour membership would vote for that is also popular with the wider electorate
14:39
Yeah, I completely see the point. In my opinion on potential successes, beyond Andy, doesn't seem to be anyone of note that
14:54
comes to mind. I have Angela, obviously, but there was the minor mishap of the tax incident
15:02
Yes, and I was listening to Luke Trill from More In Common speak about this
15:07
and apparently outside of the Labour membership, again, that really has stuck that very ill-advised mistake
15:16
that she made with her taxes, has embedded kind of an idea that all politicians are the same
15:23
which is so dangerous, because you have something like what Angela Rayner did
15:28
and somebody of her stature being Deputy Prime Minister definitely should have double, triple checked, got better advice
15:35
For what it's worth, I believe she made a genuine mistake, but it wasn't acceptable and it was right that she stepped down
15:41
But then because of that, people are hearing about Farage and the five million pound bung before he became prime minister
15:49
And they're treating those two things, five million pounds from a crypto billionaire and Angela Rayner and her stamp duty, as though they are exactly the same and all politicians are the same
15:59
And at worst, you get apathy as a result of that. Well, at best, you get apathy, I should say
16:06
And at worst, you're ushering in these populists who are always promising jam tomorrow
16:12
So I agree with you that Andy Burnham is probably the only option and that that is a much longer term plan
16:18
I keep wondering whether she just decided to say that on air because it's a really extraordinary thing to do
16:24
particularly given the time frame that we're working with here. And of course, all we're talking about is launching a leadership contest. It doesn't necessarily mean that she wants Keir Starmer to step down by Monday morning. But still, I do wonder if there's a world in which she was talking to a presenter on the radio and thought, I'm just going to say this, see what happens, let the chips fall where they may
16:47
But the question I want to ask you is, do you think that this spells the end for Keir Starmer
16:54
Is there any world in which he can remain as leader of the Labour Party
16:59
I mean, we've heard people talking about how he's despised on the doorstep
17:05
When local councillors were out canvassing, his name was coming up and he was very rarely spoken about positively
17:14
Now, some of that criticism will be absolutely valid and some of it won't be
17:18
But there is a sense that he has become quite toxic for the Labour Party
17:25
Is there any coming back from here, do you think? 03456060973. And if you want, you can tell me who would be your choice to replace Keir Starmer if you do think that he should go
17:37
Let's talk to Richard Bergen MP, who's Labour MP for Leeds East
17:41
thank you so much for joining us this evening as you probably just heard we are responding to
17:47
katherine west's leadership challenge and the first thing i want to ask you is do you support her
17:52
i think what katherine is expressing is the frustration of a whole host of labour mps
17:59
right across the political spectrum in the parliamentary labour party recognizing that
18:06
Keir Starmer should accept that he's fought his last election as Labour leader
18:11
So the way I think he should respond to Catherine's interview is to, by Monday actually, announce that he will be stepping down
18:21
but give a timetable for his departure. And I think he should say he's going to go, for example, by the end of the year
18:28
Because what I don't think we need is a snap election for leader
18:33
where we have a new Prime Minister in a matter of days or in a week
18:37
and I'll tell you why. Firstly, we don't want to end up like the Conservatives
18:41
We can only do this once. But secondly, it's not just about changing the person at the top
18:47
What's needed is a complete change in direction in order to get us in a position where we can say
18:53
do you know what, we're now going to deliver the change people voted for
18:57
back in 2024, and we need somebody in place in order to really prevent a reform government
19:08
prevent what I would characterise as a Trump-style government. So I think Keir Starmer should now accept his last election, set our timetable to go by the end of the year
19:18
then the party can have a full, thorough and democratic process for picking a leader
19:24
If it were to trigger the leadership contest that you would like to see, would you be prepared to be one of the 81 MPs that would have to put their name forward to support Catherine West
19:35
Well, I'd want to see who was actually on the ballot paper. But firstly, I'd say that when we do have a process, we should change the rules back to how they were before Keir
19:46
because Keir changed the rules to double the number of MPs required to be on the ballot paper
19:51
Previously, it would have been 40. He doubled it to 80 to try and shore up his position
19:57
But when the party's looking for a candidate going forward, because I think there's no way that Keir can lead us into another election
20:05
because his name was written on every disastrous result we've just had in the local elections
20:11
Our look in Leeds, reformed councillors, reformed candidates, beat hard-working, good local Labour candidates, rooted in their communities
20:20
not because of those councillors' record, but because of Keir Starmer and the mistakes he's made
20:26
the person that's needed, it's got to be somebody who would show to the public
20:30
it's a real fresh start, and that means somebody not implicated in the unpopular decisions on the winter fuel payment
20:36
disability benefit cuts, Keir Starmer's approach to Israel and Gaza, and it had to really be somebody
20:43
who's not been in the Cabinet, isn't in the Cabinet, somebody who would really communicate to the public
20:49
this is a fresh start, quite removed from the mistakes that have been made in the last two years
20:56
which led us to a situation where Labour has been obliterated in so many councils across the country this week
21:02
So you're talking about somebody who would represent a completely fresh start
21:06
I'm sensing that some of the names that have already been discussed
21:10
people like Angela Rayner and Wes Streeting even Andy Burnham wouldn be your preferred candidate You look at Wes you look at Angela you know they very skilled politicians who have an important role to play but they been in the cabinet and I think anybody
21:28
who has been in the cabinet, anybody who's in the cabinet, I'm afraid won't be seen by the public
21:34
as being separate enough from what the public is satisfied with. It needs to be a clean fresh start
21:39
You know, the government got off to a bad start with the winter fuel payment cuts
21:44
It wasn't in the manifesto. People who voted for us were shocked and then eventually a U-turn took place
21:51
But nobody implicated in that kind of decision is going to be able to turn around what is an existential crisis for the Labour Party
21:59
And Andy Burnham, would you like to see him be in a position where he could launch a leadership challenge
22:04
I think that he would certainly be far better than what we've got
22:09
He'd listen to other people in the party, for one thing. And, of course, lots of people find him appealing because he would be a fresh start
22:15
I mean, he hasn't even been, never mind being in the Cabinet, he hasn't been even in Parliament when some of these unpopular decisions are made
22:22
But, look, I'll see who's on the ballot paper when there is a leadership election
22:26
But the first thing that needs to happen is for Keir Starmer to take responsibility
22:30
I remember him saying a few years ago that when, and this was in the aftermath of our disastrous 2019 defeat
22:38
He said that when, in a democracy, he said when the public give its verdict, you don't tell the electorate they've got it wrong
22:48
You listen and act. And he needs to do that. What he needs to do is understand that unless he makes clear that he's fought his last election as Labour leader and he's going to set out a timetable to go by the end of the year
23:02
then we will, more likely than not, end up with a Trump-style government in the UK
23:06
I'm sure he doesn't want that to happen we don't want that to happen
23:10
Labour voters don't want that to happen and so that's what he needs to do
23:13
he needs to take responsibility and do that for the good of the party, for the good of the country
23:19
and also for the good of so many people who have woken up in our communities
23:23
to reform councillors because Keir has driven voters away from us I'm afraid
23:28
it's always a problem when your leader isn't on any of your leaflets
23:34
but is on the leaflets of all your opposing parties you know that tells its own story we know that keir starmer is set to give quite a big speech
23:42
on monday is there anything that you could hear from him that would change your position on this
23:48
and make you think actually he is the guy to take us into the next general election no what we've had is a catastrophic set of elections i was in wakefield earlier today
23:58
for an event and in wakefield you know a labor stronghold until early this week there is now only
24:06
one Labour councillor in the whole of Wakefield. Reform has taken a clean sweep. I was speaking
24:13
to some friends from Bradford earlier, and there's actually a chance that reform might
24:18
take over Bradford council. We've seen Labour decimated. What matters to me now isn't what
24:25
Keir says in his speech on Monday. What matters to me is what was said on doorstep after doorstep
24:31
which is he's got to go. But we don't need a snap election
24:35
We need a process setting out because if we just change the person at the top
24:39
and don't change the approach and don't yse properly what's gone wrong, then we'll end up like the Tories
24:44
and we'll be on the path to Nigel Farage getting the keys to number 10. It's a big decision
24:49
The party has to get it right. Otherwise, our party that's been around for 120 years
24:55
could be done for completely at the next general election and we could end up with Farage in number 10
25:04
I'm sure that Keir won't want that on his conscience and that's why he needs to do the right thing
25:08
and say that he's going to be gone by the end of the year. That was the other thing that I was going to ask you
25:12
because there was a perception, certainly at the island of strangers speech point
25:17
that you had reform and then you had reform light in the shape of the Conservatives
25:21
and then reform extra light in the shape of Labour. If a new leader were to come in
25:27
and change the direction of the party and be really clear about the values that you stand for
25:32
which stand in contrast to the Conservatives and reform, what would you like to see them articulate and prioritise
25:40
I just think like a new leader to start off by apologising to the country
25:45
for, in many ways, squandering the hopes they had when they voted Labour in 2024
25:54
People wanted a fresh start. People wanted real change. and too often they've felt they've had more of the same
26:01
Of course, the Labour government's done some really important things, the Employment Rights Act
26:05
moves in relation to public ownership on the railways, extra rights for tenants
26:10
But when you look at the welfare cuts, the winter fuel payment cuts
26:16
Keir's approach to Israel's war on Gaza, when you look at some of the nasty immigration policies
26:22
that have been brought in, it doesn't feel like a Labour government to a lot of people
26:28
who put their faith in us. And I was campaigning this week in a seat in Leeds
26:32
where an excellent local Labour candidate lost by just 300 votes to reform
26:41
but the Green Party candidate, way back in third place, got 600 or 700 votes
26:48
And the responsibility for that doesn't lie with the Green Party institution
26:52
Obviously, parties stand candidates. It lies with Keir Starmer for driving Labour people away from us to support other left of centre parties
27:00
Because if you yse it, we're losing far more votes to left of centre parties than we are to the right
27:07
But often the result of losing votes to the left is losing seats to the right
27:13
And that is a problem of Keir's creation. You know, we can't be attempting to ape reform
27:19
We need to be true to Labour values. and we need to have a leadership that's prepared to listen to something other than a small factional clique
27:26
because one of the mistakes that's been made, and the Mandelson affair is one great example of it
27:32
is the lack of willingness to listen to people outside that factional bubble
27:36
It's led to mistakes on policy, it's led to mistakes on messaging, it's led to political mistakes
27:42
that has landed us in this mess. It breaks my heart to go to somewhere like Wakefield today and see one Labour councillor left
27:49
I was chatting to that one Labour councillor, and so he's going to have to walk into a council chamber very shortly, full to the brim with reform councillors in a city that was a Labour stronghold throughout its history
28:06
Now, the reason for that isn't suddenly that all the councillors became useless overnight
28:11
The reason for that is Keir Starmer. It's what was being said to us on the doorstep again and again and again
28:20
And so we need a clear change. And he needs to do the right thing
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