How will AI change human existence? | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

0:00
Good morning. Three minutes after ten is the time you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
0:09
I want to have two phone-ins this hour, this first hour of the programme
0:13
I want you to talk to me about relatively low-level stuff in your own life
0:17
and then I want you to go full philosophical on me. Even perhaps dystopian, or maybe utopian. I don't know
0:23
Who are you going to pay attention to when they start issuing warnings about the future
0:27
especially if the warnings are based upon threats posed by technology. Who are you going to listen to
0:33
You are not going to listen to the bloke who used to march around Leicester Square
0:37
here in London's fashionable West End wearing a soundridge board warning, I think, that peas or beans were going to cause some sort of apocalyptic crisis
0:46
There was a religious subtext to what the poor fellow was up to but I did not heed his warnings
0:51
and I have never regretted that decision. So whose warnings would you heed if you were talking about technology and somebody saying, well, this is going to be big
1:01
If, for example, he was going to say, even under the best circumstances, the transition to this new era will be one of the most turbulent times in human history
1:11
Unfortunately, I don't see evidence that leaders, experts and communities are confronting the challenges adequately
1:17
Who would you pay attention to most if they said something like that? Well, Bill Gates has got to be up there, hasn't he
1:22
a billionaire founder of Microsoft, responsible for his own technological revolution, and not, it would appear
1:31
dedicated to aimlessly and eternally pursuing ever more wealth and power. He's one of those billionaires that you are encouraged to hate
1:41
like George Soros, because they spend their money on trying to improve the lot of humans
1:45
rather than trying to improve the lot of billionaires, namely themselves. Is it polio or typhoid
1:53
I mean, essentially, his money has helped to eradicate at least one serious disease from the entire continent of Africa
2:00
Imagine having that on your CV. Incredible. Worth about $100 billion. So we can't excuse him entirely from the old observation
2:08
about people who just have more than anyone could ever need. But he knows what he..
2:12
We presume that he knows what he's talking about. He plans to lobby for action, include..
2:18
well, before, in his own words, unemployment rises sharply. And this would involve
2:23
and I think what I like about these comments that he's made
2:28
what I like about it is the fact that it's going to involve things
2:32
that are initially quite jarring. It flies in the face of capitalism, actually
2:37
to say we will need to protect some jobs for humans. It flies in the face of the capitalist imperative
2:45
because the capitalist imperative is to make as much money as you can for yourself or for shareholders
2:50
And you do that by cutting costs as well as by charging prices
2:55
And if you can cut costs without compromising quality by replacing your child's teacher with a robot
3:00
then you're going to do it. I mean, it would save governments money if those teachers are working in the public sector
3:06
And that's one of the areas that he's gone for. Caregivers, teachers, medical workers should all be ring-fenced
3:13
should all be protected from AI. some roles could be, his phrase, human reserved for economic reasons. Because if they are not
3:22
then, as he says, many Americans I talk to don't realize how fast dexterous robots are advancing
3:28
A trend that is being driven by China. So you've got your white-collar
3:32
workers being replaced by essentially research machines. Machines that can read, for want of a
3:42
better word, every book that's ever been written on the subject that you're researching and give
3:45
you a pretty neat pricey of what has gone on. But then on the other side, you've got the robots
3:50
being developed that will be able to do things. It's still funny, isn't it? It's still funny
3:57
The humanoid games are underway at the moment. Did you know this? And they are still funny
4:02
just because the robots don't stop running after the race is over and some of them fall over and
4:08
they look a little bit weird and it's still funny but it won't be funny when they're carrying a gun
4:13
and running faster than any human in history or climbing up the walls of a high-rise building
4:19
and that's going to happen in our lifetimes so they're certainly going to be able to replace an
4:24
awful lot of people currently working blue-collar jobs in for example factories or production lines
4:29
already have been of course but it's going to get better and better worse and worse whichever you prefer
4:39
And that's why I've got two questions. I don't know if you can do the fur. I really would love you to
4:44
Alright? And I don't want to sound like the late, great Kevin Keegan, but I'd love it
4:47
I'd love it if you had a crack at telling me what the future's going to look like. But it's not, historically
4:52
very fertile ground for a radio phoning. Are you a futurist? It's a thing, you know
4:57
One of the first articles I ever got commissioned as a kid was about futurism
5:01
About people who advised big companies on what trends we're going to do next and what things were going to be
5:07
coming in or going out. Futurism. I have no idea. Bill Gates talks about roles needing to be
5:15
reserved for human beings because otherwise no one will have anything to do all day and that's
5:19
an extraordinary image, isn't it? It's an absolutely extraordinary image. What jobs
5:28
Tom asked today, I might ask again, what jobs are absolutely doomed
5:33
But the other element of the conversation, so ring in now if you can have a crack at that
5:37
What do you think the future is going to look like? Bill Gates is suggesting that we need to start planning
5:41
What would you do to plan and what would we be planning for? A world where 80% of jobs no longer need humans to do them
5:49
80% of roles in keeping society afloat? I don't know, I made that number up, but what would it look like
5:55
What would it look like? but the second bit is a little bit more personal
6:00
and we've been here before and I told you when we first came here that we would come back here once or twice a year
6:06
possibly more often probably once a quarter so three, four times a year
6:10
and we will just lick off Inga and stick it in the air and see which way the wind is blowing
6:15
and see whether the wind will have gathered pace see whether it's blowing in new directions
6:20
work out what is going on because I don't want to be that bloke
6:25
I never want to be that bloke who revels in ignorance. I remember when I started in this job
6:34
it seems to be 104 years ago, listening to people sort of reveling in not understanding Facebook, for example
6:44
I mean, looking back, maybe they had a point, all of our lives would have been enriched if we'd never signed up to Facebook, perhaps
6:49
But looking at things and doing that thing that we all do
6:52
It's like the technological equivalent of dyslexia or ADHD. You think, well, we didn't need that when I was a child
6:58
so why on earth do we need it now? We didn't have names for these things when I was young
7:02
so why on earth do we need it now? There should be a word for it. It's like weaponised nostalgia almost, isn't it
7:08
And I think there's an equivalent in technology. You keep up to a point
7:12
and then you remember things from your childhood, like having to programme the VCR for your dad
7:21
Your dad couldn't programme the video. you could do it when you were eight And then the world turns the pendulum swings and you asking your children to help you with something when you used to see yourself as the one in the family that understood technology Everything changes and I don want to be the person who sits here going
7:38
well, I don't know what that's all about. And I am now that person. I've never used ChatGPT
7:47
I have the AI thing on Google, which is just a sort of turbocharged search engine
7:52
it's like it's, what's the word that you use? it's raking over everything that's ever been written on a certain subject
7:59
and giving you really specific, scraping, that's the word I'm looking for
8:03
scraping the entire internet if I ever get around to writing another book
8:08
I presume I will need to use, it would be mad of me not to use
8:11
one of these platforms to do the research that would normally take me hundreds and hundreds of man hours
8:18
you would be able to find what you were looking for very specifically if you were careful, very, very quickly
8:25
But I am not that person yet. And I don't have anything to do with it
8:32
I'm 54 years old, which seems to me to be quite the cusp
8:37
technologically speaking. There'll be people older than me who are up to their ears in AI. There'll be people younger than me
8:43
who, like me, know nothing about it. And it's important not to be
8:48
that person who celebrates ignorance or revels in not knowing anything about it
8:53
I kept up. I don't know when I sort of began to fall behind
8:57
It might have been when Elon Musk bought Twitter, you know. I just found my enthusiasm for that side of the tech revolution
9:04
waning at a rate of knots. It was almost like as the Nazis rose
9:08
my enjoyment of social media plummeted. And maybe I just stopped paying as much attention then
9:15
as I would have paid previously. And this is my job. I hope that doesn't come as a major surprise to anybody
9:22
but this is what I do to pay my mortgage. I sit in front of this microphone every morning
9:26
with some pieces of paper in front of me that have been cut out of print editions of the daily newspapers
9:33
not even exaggerating or joking. The most important part of my armory, physical armory
9:40
is probably not my computer upstairs, it's my scissors. It is the scissors that I use to cut stories out of newspapers
9:49
to act as aid memoir or explainers for the subjects that I have considered talking with you about today
9:58
So radio is the oldest media, apart from print, in a way
10:03
It is not a job that currently, as far as I can tell
10:08
is likely to be either enhanced or replaced by AI. But lots of jobs are. so
10:15
and the problem I've got now is that the question I'm about to ask you
10:21
if you're on the other side of this river where AI has become
10:25
part of your life and absolutely intrinsic, it's now baked into your existence
10:29
if you're on the other side of this river you might find my question ridiculous
10:33
it might be like asking you what use are wheels or what's the point of motor cars
10:40
or something like that, do you see what I mean? who needs computers, eh? what's wrong with a quill
10:46
Do you see what I mean? Because it is so baked into your existence that you've probably lost the ability to conceive of a life
10:52
that has never really been near it, that has never really deployed it
10:56
And I probably have deployed it more than I've realised. I mean, get that out of the way early
11:00
But that's the entry level. That's the personal. So I want to do a personal and a philosophical today
11:06
You will get extra points if you can actually have a crack at both
11:11
but it's by no means required. I don't you don't need when you ring in to tell me what you have used AI for or what you are using AI for
11:18
you are not required to add a supplementary answer to the question of what the future is going to look like
11:25
but I think we can all agree there's something for everybody there so I mean look the most obvious question is
11:30
has it replaced your job or or is it doing your job is it helping you do your job what what role
11:37
What I want you to do is either surprise me or educate me
11:43
Tell me something that you think might surprise me about your relationship with this technology, okay
11:49
Something that you will don't... So I want you to either surprise me or frighten me
11:55
Can you do that, do you think? 0345 6060 973. You can either surprise me or you can frighten me
12:04
My wife uses it quite a lot in her work. My kids both use it
12:08
I just have never had cause to use it. So I am..
12:12
What would the word be? It's not quite ignorant. I think I prefer innocent
12:16
I think I prefer innocent. What have you used it for? In a way that will surprise
12:23
or perhaps frighten or impress. Those are the three verbs today. Surprise, frighten, impress
12:30
Somebody who is innocent. Me. I will be the ingenue. I'm not ignorant
12:36
I'm just innocent. I'm not avoidant. I'm just innocent. I've had no cause to deploy it. I haven't
12:43
had to... Do you see? That's all I am. That's who I am today. As Swarbrick was leaving the studio
12:50
today after I did a short version of this introduction, he said, oh, yes, listeners
12:54
save me from myself. And he's right. I don't want to be the bloke who knows nothing about the new
12:59
technology. Because when you are the bloke who knows nothing about the new technology, it doesn't take long to become the bloke who celebrates his ignorance it's a defense mechanism
13:08
well i don't understand all this ai business and i'm doing perfectly well thank you very much
13:12
i don't want to be that person i don't think i would cross that rubicon but if i'm no longer
13:18
the bloke who knows nothing about it then i can't cross the rubicon at all so question number one
13:23
what does it do? Surprise, impress, or frighten me with the story of what it does in your world
13:35
0345 6060973. And then, what is the future going to look like
13:42
Bill Gates doesn't know. He's offered up one slightly frightening possibility. You've given this more thought than I have
13:48
What do you think? And that brings robots into the conversation. so you've got AI doing
13:54
if you like the brain work and then you're going to have robots or humanoids doing the
13:58
leg work, what the hell is going to be left for us so there's the personal and then there's the
14:04
philosophical or political, whichever you prefer, 03456060973 is the number you need, it's 1017
14:12
James O'Brien on LBC it is 19 minutes after 10, surprise me
14:17
frighten me or impress me, I don't think you'll be able to do all three at once
14:22
but you are welcome to try. And in the context very specifically of AI
14:26
the march of AI and the things it is already doing in your world
14:30
that will either surprise, frighten or impress an ingenue, an innocent like me
14:35
who knows next to nothing about it except what I've read in the newspapers and what you've told me in the past
14:39
and who perhaps more pertinently has never really used it and doesn't think he ever will
14:45
until or unless he ever writes another book. Steve's in Devon. Steve, what have you got
14:51
Hi there, James. It's nice to talk to you. Likewise. What have I got
14:54
I try and frighten you a little in the first place Go on I work for a large American infrastructure company that supplies the infrastructure behind AI Okay So the team data centers that kind of stuff Yeah
15:05
And take a personal interest in the way it's going. I've always had an interest in this stuff since my 20s
15:10
I'm in my 50s now. And I've always liked the idea of humans giving up non-meaningful work, if you like
15:16
It's always, I've never thought the full employment thing. I'm a left-winger by nature
15:20
But that whole idea of we should all be working. I prefer the idea that machines work for us
15:25
Yeah. However, it's who's controlling it. And the pace of change and what it's able to do
15:34
and the advantages that it's able to give, and it's hard to explain those quickly
15:39
Take your time. Don't take as much time as I usually do, but take more than you might ordinarily
15:44
Go on. Okay. Right. Well, there are many advantages for start-off in business
15:49
so it would seem, in order to innovate better, make things cheaper
15:53
all of that kind of thing, lose a lot of humans in the chain. All of that kind of thing
15:59
But also in terms of, shall we say, I don't know, states, intervention by states into other states
16:05
the ability to spy, and all of that kind of good stuff. Europe by nature
16:11
because they've had the jackboot over them in the form of the Nazis
16:15
and you might say Eastern Europe in the form of communism in the past. Yes. I would say that Europe is naturally more cautious
16:21
and more focused on the rights of the individual and have, whether they're adequate or otherwise
16:27
they have far more checks and balances in place to try and keep this stuff reined in
16:33
However, the speed of change, the speed of innovation and the speed of advantage that you need
16:39
worries me that by the very nature of those checks and balances
16:43
what it means is that Europe will go too far behind, America and China are racing ahead
16:50
and will very likely gain control of the systems in a way
16:54
that means that for once, perhaps it was time to throw away the checks and balances
16:59
because when you look at the situation as it is, my God, we've got to catch up quick or we are nobody
17:05
I mean, you are frightening me, but it is currently quite an amorphous fear
17:10
I'm sort of frightened of a blob that you've described. I'm not frightened of the detail
17:15
Are we talking about foreign states knowing absolutely everything about us and therefore us being vulnerable to them or controlling all of our infrastructure
17:23
Well, you can't keep saying yes. I thought you might go, no, yes, yes, no
17:27
No, I'm sorry. That's a great start. This technology knows no borders
17:32
Right. And you probably read various things about hacking and that kind of thing by AI systems
17:37
Yeah. I don't expect anything with that and sort of, oh, I don't want to talk about quantum technology
17:44
Let's just stick with this AI stuff now. Not until after 11, eh? Not until after 11, eh, Steve
17:48
But in effect, yeah, I'm concerned that all of the social stuff that we put together
17:54
in Europe to try and make humans, in general, have a better life than just
17:58
ugly arcs, etc. So it could become a combination of the Waffen-SS and
18:04
Goebbels' propaganda, and something like Minority Report flavoured, that Tom Cruise film
18:11
Yeah, it's... This is all about people, though. It's in the hands
18:14
of bad people. It will do very bad things. It will, and there are very bad people
18:20
around, and I'm afraid it becomes increasingly easy for them to use it. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely
18:26
All right, I'm frightened, and other people can expand upon some of the things that you've said
18:30
What about surprising me on a much lower level, on a micro rather than a macro
18:34
Oh, on a micro level. So, I have dabbled it, and I mean
18:39
I used to be a coder many, many years ago, Commodore 64, I'm that old
18:42
that kind of thing. It has enabled me to write a functional website that
18:46
has recreated music that I haven't been able to listen to for 20 years, because
18:50
the old software has disappeared. So that has been marvellous. It's been fantastic watching you build the code for me
18:57
But on a... I tell you what, here's the more personal level thing
19:01
I'm just moving house at the moment, which is why I've got a little bit of time to talk to you
19:05
I'm moving to what's supposed to be a bit of a hippie town
19:08
but you could also describe it as a bit of a middle-class enclave where I think there's a lot of inherited wealth
19:13
and a lot of security. One of the towns in Totnesh, I just had mentioned it
19:18
I nearly said Tottenham, but I didn't know whether some of the people in Tottenham would object to being called a hippie town
19:23
But that was the first place I thought of. Anyway, on we go. They'll probably object to both sides of what I said
19:27
But what I'll suggest is that I bought a place. I'm not sure if I want to sell it in five years' time, ten years' time
19:34
whether there's going to be a middle-class person to replace me and able to buy it
19:38
Because I think the whole middle-class system may have disappeared by that point
19:42
As in a certain salary bracket. Yeah, absolutely. Because the white-collar jobs are very in danger
19:48
Yeah, it will be massively shrunk. Yeah, that's a worry for everybody who's got, I mean, you know
19:53
a big mortgage, most obviously, or an expensive house. Steve, you're a star, and good luck with the move
19:59
It's supposed to be the second most stressful thing you can do after divorce, I think. Or maybe it's less stressful if you can use AI
20:06
because some of the things coming in are really quite... I like this. This is what I mean
20:10
So it can be prosaic. That's a good word. It can be quite prosaic. It doesn't have to be dystopian, as Steve has just elected
20:18
Or you can do both. But this is nice from Matt. Chat GPT has won me three out of three pothole cases
20:23
with three different councils. I have no legal knowledge whatsoever. I don't quite know what that means
20:30
That means that you write in some details, you put some details into Chat GPT
20:34
and it gives you the legal, the laws that you need to lobby the council for compensation
20:40
I presume. I mean, where would you even begin on something like that? Where would you even begin
20:45
Colin's in Liverpool. Colin, what would you like to say? Good morning, James. How long before you use the word quantum in the course of this conversation
20:53
No, I won't use quantum. I'm going to drop some buzzwords in, but I'll try and keep it
20:58
Are you surprising me, frightening me, or impressing me? No, I'm going to give you a novel use case, but let me just give you the background quickly
21:03
So I'm an early adopter of AI, and I would say enthusiastic is a bit of an understatement
21:10
I spend over 1,000 pounds a month on subscriptions to the different providers
21:15
Wow. I've got my own AI server in my workshop office. I have built, I run my own business
21:23
I'm a security consultant. I run my business through that. While I'm sitting here talking to you
21:29
I'm building three separate websites at the same time. It's a bit rude. And I'm not actually building them
21:35
I'm just telling the agents, that's the buzzword, the agents what to do. And I'll describe what I want and they go away and build it
21:41
and they come back and they say, there it is. And I say, that's fine. and then I deploy it live
21:46
My wife has used AI to build her own startup, and we've won a huge grant
21:54
On the back of that, she's self-taught. She's learned everything she's learned about tech using AI
21:59
I think it's absolutely sensational what it can do. The novel use case I've got, I've lost a lot of weight recently
22:09
I did the Amsterdam Marathon in 2015. I've decided I'm going to do it again this year
22:14
I've used AI to do the planning of the marathon, my nutrition, my training plan
22:20
And then what I done is I got a website that is going to have basically three different agents which are going to be three different virtual people This is the thing I wanted to tell you about is you can actually give these agents personalities So you give it a soul
22:36
So I've got one agent that is going to be my coach. I've got one agent that is going to be my bookmaker
22:42
who's going to predict my winning time. And I've got another agent who's going to be the ghost of me in 2015
22:48
And he's going to basically take a mickey out of me. Encourage you to write
22:53
Well, no, I'm going to set him up to be critical. And will this be in your ear while you're running
22:58
or will this just be part of your training program? No, it's going to be on the website. It's all going to be live
23:03
and people will be able to bet against the bookie and place bets and that
23:06
and it's all going to be agent-based. I'm not going to supervise that. I'm just going to throw it out there and see what happens
23:12
I can't ask you what it is called because it involves gambling, and there's all sorts of rules about that with regard to Ofcom
23:17
but that's the only reason I'm not going to ask you because it does sound really interesting. The problem I've got, I understood the second half of what you told me
23:26
and I understood all of the words that you used in the first half. But I don't actually know what you told me
23:33
So you have got AI agents designing security systems. Software systems. Software security systems that you then sell to a client
23:44
Yes. Exactly that. And I heard the chap talking about security. What would you have done 10 years ago or five years ago
23:53
I would have done the same thing, but I would have done it myself. I would say... And how long would that have taken
23:58
Probably at 10 times that time. I'd say my productivity is probably tenfold
24:03
But you've got five on the go at the same time. Yeah. So does that mean it's 50-fold
24:11
There is a little bit of a trade-off there because you've got to do the manual supervision
24:15
and that's still now the bottleneck, right? But that's improving as well
24:20
There's lots of platforms that can do that supervision, and you actually use one AI to supervise the other AIs
24:27
Wow. So you have some slightly less intelligent AI that does the grunt work
24:32
and then you have a really smart and expensive AI that supervises them
24:36
I mean, you're prompting an extraordinary diversity of messages. This is a Black Mirror episode written in real time, says Sam
24:46
Somehow it's both beautiful and tragic. Do you understand why the word tragic is there
24:51
No, absolutely. It's going to be, I mean, this is the dichotomy that I have
24:57
It's going to be devastating to anybody. And I work with a mentor and coach, young software grads
25:03
Right. And I simply don't know how they're going to find jobs. I'm really sorry to say it is tragic
25:10
That might be a slight flaw in your mentoring skills. Yeah. So you could, if you can do this
25:15
forgive me if I ask questions in the course of this hour that everybody except me knows the answer to
25:20
then can AI make a game as well if you could yeah
25:25
so Anthropic released a new model recently Fable 5 and the first thing people did
25:34
with it is they built full virtual reality games and they did it the model was released on Friday at 4pm
25:40
on Saturday X was full of people who built complete multiplayer games
25:47
Except they hadn't. They'd just told AI to do it. Well, yeah. But they had the concept
25:51
And that's the thing. It's the enabler. And this is what I've seen with my wife is
25:55
she has the ideas and now she can manifest her ideas by talking to AI
26:01
And it's the same if you were, I know you were a gaming guy. If you had an idea for a game
26:05
you could actually build that. Now the barrier to entry is completely removed. Okay, you've done it
26:11
You've surprised me. You've frightened me. And you've impressed me. Now you've played the hat trick
26:15
What do you think the future is going to look like beyond what you said about young people
26:20
Because not everyone can be like you, can they? Because if everyone is doing what you're doing
26:24
then you're fighting over clients who eventually are going to realise they can actually do it themselves
26:29
We don't need to pay Colin for our security system. That day is not far off
26:33
So there is going to be a huge upskilling. And I think one of your previous callers said this as well
26:37
Everybody's going to have to move up the value chain. Yeah. But it does mean that there's, you know, that barrier to entry for graduates and for people who aren't skilled in technology is going to be hard
26:51
I see. I mean, yeah. And even then, the people who are skilled in technology are running slower than the technology that's chasing them
26:59
And that they will be caught and replaced by the technology as well. I remember, Colin, that's an incredible contribution
27:05
Thank you. And the best of luck. The absolute best of luck in the marathon as well. but I am always reminded
27:11
I don't know why I bear a very little brain sometimes the guy who rang us ages ago
27:17
when we first started doing this and he is like a kind of
27:21
version 1.0 of Colin it I can't even remember what he was doing
27:25
I think it was graphic design and he just said to us
27:29
quite like cheekily because I mean the AI is doing all the stuff
27:33
that I used to do and I'm still charging people for the graphic design but eventually mate they're going to realise
27:38
that they can get the AI to do what you're doing. What you're getting the AI to do, they can get the AI to do
27:43
and they can cut you out completely. He goes, yeah, I know, but I'm getting paid until that day dawns
27:48
And that's not an answer to the question of what the future looks like
27:52
What does the future look like? It involves telling me what happens after that day dawns
27:57
And it's too big, right? You're scared now. It's too big to contemplate
28:02
What on earth happens when all of our jobs are being done by, or almost all of our jobs are being done by agents
28:08
which I didn't think it was the thing to pick Colin up on, but for the record, spoiler alert
28:14
they do not have souls. Do they? Here's Dominic Ellis with the headlines
28:19
James O'Brien on LBC. Surprise me, frighten me or impress me. One day, Keith, we should do that without revealing
28:27
without providing a topic. I literally just ring in and surprise me, frighten me or impress me on any subject under the sun
28:33
And then I'll say, God, we're visionaries on this program, aren't we? And then you'll phone me and say, Clive Bull did this in 1984
28:40
Or Nick Abbott does it every Tuesday. Surprise me, frighten me, or impress me
28:44
I think the first call would be from management. Say, what the heck is he doing now? Tell him to start talking about the news
28:49
Or he'll be getting his sandwiches wrapped in a roadmap sometime soon
28:53
I love the relationship between age and technology, which is, I think, becoming increasingly irrelevant
28:59
I think that you're going to have people who are older, as in fact our callers have demonstrated
29:06
who are right on top of the new technology, whereas once it was kind of adopted, it was adopted by the youngsters and then taught to the oldsters
29:13
For my generation, I wonder what the story is for other generations
29:18
For anybody round about my age, the thing that felt like Star Wars was so pedestrian now
29:26
it's almost unbelievable that we used to stare at this with a genuine sense of wonder
29:31
Like, I don't know, Neanderthals staring at fire. So you had a Commodore PET computer
29:37
that arrived in your school, a green screen and a keyboard, all one unit
29:42
Looked like something out of the alien movies. It looked like something off a spaceship
29:49
from the TARDIS. And you would write, I think I've got this
29:54
And some people are going to go, oh my days, I remember that. And other people are going to go
29:58
Is James all right? Is he ill? So you would write 10, like the number 10, and then you would write print
30:05
and you'd open quotations, and you'd write, O'Brien is the best, or something like that. I guess I was at the kind of school where you were
30:11
known by your surname. And then you would write, on the second line, you would write 20
30:18
space, and then you would just write, go to 10. And then I think you would write run
30:23
and that was a little computer program and it just put an endless
30:28
ream of O'Brien is the best, O'Brien is the best O'Brien is the best, O'Brien is the best
30:35
all the way up the screen filled the screen and we would, you know, we thought
30:38
that was incredible and that was 30 years, no, that was 40 years ago, give or take
30:45
I don't know what would be the equivalent for someone who's 44 now or 34 now
30:50
I think obviously games quickly became the milestones, didn't they? And then Grand Theft Auto
30:59
becoming the game that you couldn't quite believe the size, the scale and the sophistication of
31:05
That's probably, what, 34-year-olds? If you were 34, I don't know though
31:10
But for me, for anybody my age, or Bill Gates' age actually
31:14
that would be pretty much the first thing you ever did. Print O'Brien is the best or Gates is great
31:20
Print Gates is great. 20 go to 10, and then the whole screen fills up with gates
31:24
Anyway, I don't know why I'm talking about that, just to mark the magic, in a way
31:28
of the relationship between technology and generation. John's in Exeter. John, what made you pick up the phone
31:34
Hello, James. Hello, John. Good morning. Well, I suppose my observations come from the experience
31:40
of my brother and me, because we're both university lecturers. I specialise in Jewish and Christian origins
31:48
and work in sort of religious studies and classics. Gosh. My brother is a computer programmer, a cyber security expert
31:54
who teaches undergraduates and master's students in, you know, basically hacking, legitimate hacking
32:01
This is almost, I could see, I mean, do you watch Ludwig on the telly
32:06
Oh, we did, yeah. I could see David Mitchell play, your brother's not your twin, is he
32:11
No. But David Mitchell could play you both in the story of your life somehow
32:15
I mean, that is such a divergence, isn't it? That you went down theology and he went down technology
32:20
Well, exactly. Amazing. Go on. My dad and my brother are the mathsy types
32:24
Right. I'm all about arguments and critical thinking, but I mean, we've been having great conversations
32:29
But we've both had the same conversations. It was about 2023 when ChatGPT appeared
32:34
and then other models, other large language models have appeared on the scene
32:39
LLMs. Exactly. Too embarrassed to ask for that. Two and a half. Hang on, I'm just burying that in my brain
32:44
Large language models, large language models. And are they called that? Why are they called that
32:48
You'd have to ask my brother, really. I will. Can we get his brother online, too, please? Carry on
32:55
It's a particular kind of model, as far as I understand it. So there are different kinds of AI
32:59
There's general AI. There's, you know, the search for consciousness and a massive brain
33:05
But what we use on a daily basis, I think, are generally large language models
33:09
So there's, like, Chagibuti. It studies vast, vast, inconceivably vast amounts of data, basically
33:18
from the last 30 years of the internet and all of sort of human literature
33:22
Yeah, well, and beyond, because we had, I don't know if you were listening last week, we had a guest on who'd been tracking
33:26
why books, secondhand books, were being bought up in bulk and then transported to these warehouses
33:33
where they're just scanned in and then destroyed because you have to tear the book to pieces
33:36
to scan it into the machine. It wasn't quite as sinister as it initially sounded
33:40
but it was still pretty sinister. So that's what they're scraping. That's what they're building, this enormous base
33:46
Fast, fast. Almost inconceivably large. And the LLMs are predictors. I mean, you'll need to ask an expert
33:53
You'll probably get loads of calls telling me to shut up and stay in my lane
33:57
But I think they are predictors which will predict what humans are likely to say next
34:03
And so when we use Chachaput or Claude, that's the kind of thing we're using. And it's just happened since 2023 that the last two years have been really striking
34:11
And it's interesting because my brother has had the same experience as me in two vastly different subjects
34:17
it's now become very difficult to assess undergraduate students. Suddenly, our assessment methods are now completely inappropriate
34:29
Whereas in the past, they'd study for three years and then sit down and write exams with a pen in a hall
34:34
Or potentially, you could have people go into a hall and sit at unnetworked computer terminals to do my brother's exams
34:42
Of course, they do coursework. I mean, last week or the week before, you were talking to people about education
34:47
how coursework has benefited certain kinds of brains. Young women seem to work better with coursework, you said
34:52
and young men work better with the stress of exams. But I've got to the stage in the last year
34:58
where I'm thinking we're going to have to send people back into exam halls with pens
35:03
Maybe you can open it for eight hours and let them come and go to the library. I don't know, to make it more coursework-like
35:09
Because the large language model would be doing the work, not the student
35:14
you don't need to know anything anymore the diligent students I mean I speak to them, so I talk about my students
35:21
the diligent students come to me and a lot of them say I'm never going to use it
35:26
at least not in my degree because I want to learn I want to develop my skills
35:30
you said learning has an end in itself exactly, we've spent 12 weeks
35:35
learning about, I don't know how early Christians lived in the Roman Empire
35:39
and all of the historical methodological problems of working out what texts can tell us
35:46
Ancient texts that weren't written to tell us things. We've got to, you know, try to..
35:50
You've got your sociological problem. And they get really passionate about their essays
35:54
and they write these wonderful essays. Sometimes they're brilliant essays, sometimes they're mediocre essays
35:59
Of course. We've always had a range. But you can tell... Immediately. I've been marking essays for 20 years
36:05
So I've read Good, Bad, Indifferent and everything in between. But they were always written by humans
36:09
So I knew the range of what sorts of things people write. And I still get lots of those
36:16
Yeah. But around 20% of cohort or module submissions have these weird, flat, eerily elegant phrases
36:28
Well, that's an eerily elegant phrase itself, isn't it? Eerily elegant phrases is an eerily elegant phrase
36:35
Well, I suppose so. And so you know, so that's 20% that you could probably stick a fork in
36:41
It's done. That's a lie. But then they'll be... I do. Yeah
36:45
So, I mean, I think the extreme ones are where I can say, if ChatGPT has written all of this..
36:51
And what do they say when you confront them, just out of curiosity? I'm not the one to confront them
36:56
All I do is flag it and say, I don't think the student has written this
37:00
I think it's been written by an LLM. These are all the signs. I mean, I've ended up having to spend weeks and weeks
37:05
just ysing ChatGPT's favourite sentence constructions, and I can just spot them
37:09
They jump right out now. So sometimes an essay is written entirely in chapter EPT speak
37:15
And what you get is a good opening thesis, perfectly solid, perfectly sensible
37:21
And then you get paragraph after paragraph after paragraph which repeats which goes round and round and round this idea Puts it in different phrases It is relentlessly elegant It sounds like one of my opening monologues John
37:35
It sounds like LBC at 10 o'clock in the morning. Exactly. Relentlessly elegant. Absolutely
37:41
But hollow. But somehow hollow. Inauthentic. But it never goes anywhere. It's static
37:46
There's no risk. There are no moments of inspiration. There are no moments of flatness, which you get with humor
37:51
How do you mark that, then? Because you have to mark it in good faith. How can you mark that
37:56
Well, that's the thing. So my heart's been sinking, you know, recently. Because I don't want these kids
38:01
The thing is, I know what it's like. I was a student in the 1990s. Yeah, same. Probably just after you were
38:06
And at three in the morning, and you know you're going to be writing through
38:10
till six in the morning, and you're writing whatever you can, and you're gathering your references
38:14
from the library that you've gathered, and you hand it in, and you hope that it's going to be all right
38:19
But of course, if CHGPT had been there for me at that time, of course I'd have used it
38:23
But then again, it's depriving them of the opportunity to develop these skills
38:31
And it's limits. It's foolish to think you could excise it altogether from the experience
38:38
but frightening to think about how on earth you would impose limitations
38:41
As you say, they're going to have to bring back pen and ink in exam halls and the old school
38:46
Controlled conditions. Or we're going to have to work out ways of teaching people and assessing people
38:52
whereby we know that they have used chat EPT. And that is baked into the process
38:58
Exactly. I'm not being a Luddite. I know you're not. You don't sound like a Luddite. I personally avoid it because when I read an ancient text
39:06
in an ancient language, I care about what I do. A Samarian, for example
39:11
I'm not that clever. Just Greek and Hebrew. Just Greek and Hebrew
39:18
Well, I know people who read all those ancient Samarian languages. No, but I want to know that I can do things
39:25
I don't want to get infantilized. I don't want my skills to disappear because I just rely on a thing
39:30
But in a way you sound like somebody who can do really big sums in his head
39:34
despite the fact that everybody's got a calculator on their phone. No, that's my brother
39:40
Yeah, I know, but you're the philosopher or the theologian, so there are parallels
39:45
I can smell the documents that you're talking about. I completely live in that space
39:50
I feel everything that you've described, but I am also the bloke who would say, what's the point in learning that
39:55
Because my phone can do it. And that is going to be part of the problem
40:00
That's what you've beautifully depicted, is that AI is going to do more and more things that take us away from something ineffable
40:07
something that's actually quite hard to pin down, the point of the point of things
40:12
You know? And it's not the same. Even if you ended up eventually writing an identical essay
40:18
or AI, the large language model, wrote an identical essay to the one that you would have written
40:21
if you'd done all the things that John described. Something's lost. Two identical things
40:27
And yet something's lost. I told you we were going to go a bit philosophical
40:31
I'm a bit late. It's the only reason I'm moving on, John. It's 10.48. James O'Brien on LBC
40:37
52 is the time. Can someone make a note of this? I think we should actually use this model
40:41
the next time we come back to this topic. Surprise, frighten or impress me
40:45
And it will move with the times, won't it? This is how we talk about AI on this program now
40:51
Give me a ring. I am behind the curve. I'm not complete ignoramus
40:55
I was at 10 o'clock this morning. I probably will be again because my brain is like Swiss cheese
41:00
Surprise, frighten or impress me. And you've done all of that from very different angles
41:04
Colin literally building computer security systems while talking to me. Five different agents, 1,000 pounds a month
41:11
on various AI supplies. And then John, the professor down in Exeter
41:18
talking about something very sort of... I keep using the word ineffable
41:24
I should probably look it up. But something being lost, quiddity, the quiddity of things
41:29
And I don't know. I mean, that is almost leading us towards a question about what's the point of learning anything
41:34
when that thing in your pocket knows everything now. It's going to have scraped
41:39
Do you remember last week's story about... It was Google, wasn't it
41:42
Just buying loads of books. Antiquarian booksellers. Second-hand booksellers. Getting orders in a minute
41:50
that they would normally take a month to fulfil. Yeah, we'll take everything you've got on that subject, please
41:54
All 2,000 of them. And then they take them to a warehouse. They tear off the covers
41:58
I presume a robot, possibly a robot, possibly a human being, just scans every page into a computer
42:06
and then it's there. It's the sum total of human knowledge. It's all going to be on a computer
42:10
And you could get excited about that. Or you could get really depressed
42:14
The correct response is probably a little bit of both, which is why I'm asking you to both surprise, frighten and impress me today
42:20
Kip's in Colchester. Kip, what would you like to say? Hi, James. So I run a design business and basically it's decimating it, AI
42:29
It's just absolutely decimating it and it's really quite upsetting because I sort of sell logos and business card designs and flyer designs
42:40
and that has almost instantly just stopped because people just feed it what they want into AI
42:46
and get an output and that's what they use. They don't think, oh, well, I'll pay someone
42:52
And it might perhaps be quite as good as what you would have done for them, but it's good enough for them
42:58
Yeah, I mean, the problem is it's, I'm, you know, I'm not trained. I've learned everything
43:04
I've done this for years. And there's no personality to anything. Everything it produces just looks the same, the output
43:13
because it just does what it thinks is right. And it just makes the same thing over and over again
43:18
And I've just lost so much business because people just don't want it
43:22
They just think, well, I can save some money. And they all create slop, basically
43:28
So it's your creativity is being squeezed out of the market. effectively. Yeah, exactly. And I think one of the saddest things that happened to me recently was
43:37
I work with an electrician who wanted a brochure to advertise his business
43:42
And I've worked with him for a little while and I sort of know his business and
43:46
all that kind of stuff. And I sent him the draft of the brochure. And instead of him
43:50
looking at it and going through it, he just put it into ChatGPT and sent me a report on what ChatGPT
43:57
said about my brochure. And it just broke my heart. And I said to him, I said, you know
44:04
would you trust AI to do your electrical work? Would you trust it
44:08
And he was like, no, absolutely not. Well, not yet. Well, yeah
44:12
And I said, well, this is my point. I said, imagine one of your customers has a house rewired
44:17
and they take photographs of your work and feed it into ChatGPT
44:21
and they then produce you a report telling you how bad your electrical work is
44:27
and he was like, oh yeah, I get your point. Yeah, except, and this is really poignant, mate
44:33
because a lot of people would do that, because what we've just learned about the scraping
44:39
it's going to be the best electrician in the world. It's going to know everything
44:44
Yes, it is. It is eventually. It might not be now, but of course it is going to be able to benefit
44:48
from every word that has ever been written and every picture that has ever been taken of electricianship I suppose so but obviously It not a good ogy Because you bringing I mean that earlier caller Colin used the word soul to describe the agents
45:05
and a lot of people balked, myself included. But you're describing soul. You're describing bringing something..
45:11
I'm going to look up the word ineffable, Kip. Just keep this, because I'm using it all the flipping time
45:16
and if I've got it wrong, then... Because I wanted to say you're describing something ineffably human
45:21
Too great, beautiful, or extreme to be described. God, I'm clever, yeah. So it's ineffably human
45:27
You're describing something ineffably human, and an electrician is not. An electrician is following prompts and orders
45:33
and rules and regulations. You are being replaced by something that can't have humanity
45:39
and you feel that anything remotely creative should involve humanity. Exactly. You're on a losing pitch, aren't you
45:46
Yeah, I mean, the thing is, I am conflicted because I'm a massive, massive nerd
45:51
and I love computers and all tech, You know, it really makes me happy
45:56
But just seeing, like, all this slop that's created just all looks the same, you know
46:02
Maybe the tide will go back out again. You know, there's a message here, actually
46:07
from someone who speaks to what you're describing. It was someone who does, here we go
46:13
I'm an image editor. I retouched a lot of football-related images for a major publication
46:17
One day this year, the team photo switched over to AI-generated headshots. Suddenly, the players no longer had sunburn
46:23
or five o'clock shadow or spots. It looks fake as hell, but I suppose they've saved a fortune
46:28
And then adds, but yuck, it might go back again. I hope so. Authenticity might
46:32
I really do because it's so scary. I spend years getting to know my customers
46:37
and understanding their businesses and what they want and what they need and their style
46:42
And AI can't really do that. I know, I know it can't
46:45
And yet, it costs them nothing to stick it in a computer
46:50
whereas you've got bills to pay. What a poignant call, Kip. And that juxtaposition as well of your enthusiasm for technology
46:57
and your witnessing, essentially, of the decline of the role that you obviously are very good at and enjoy
47:04
And there it is. So what's that under? I didn't put sadden
47:08
I put surprise, frighten or impress. I should have added depress, shouldn't I? Surprise me, frighten me, impress me or depress me
47:14
And that depresses me. It should depress everyone. Hez is in Whiteley. Hez, what would you like to say
47:19
Hi, James. Good morning to you. Happy Thursday. Thank you. Okay, you asked what is LLM
47:24
It is a large language. It's a large mathematical system that has learned from human text
47:29
That's in a sentence. My reason for calling, thanks. Fantastic calls, by the way
47:34
Is that what people seem to miss is the training side of things. My background is a trainer, James
47:39
So when the internet came out, I had to train loads of people under that technology
47:44
The same goes for when we're working with AI. People just have been thrown into it
47:49
You see all this stuff on YouTube, and it scares people. I think if you step back a bit
47:53
and understand what it can do for you and the benefits, that really will take you a great way
47:58
I mean, I use it every single day. And when the guy just now, Kit
48:02
was talking about people in the slop, yes, there's a lot of slop, but slop only happens because you're feeding the model slop
48:09
We're not using critical thinking. So we have to realise we're not talking to a human
48:13
we're talking to a machine. If people understand that more... I think they do
48:18
I think my... Well, maybe I didn't, But my callers today have understood that
48:22
And the point is that the client in that case, in Kip's case
48:26
is happy with what AI is doing and therefore is happy because of the cost saving involved
48:31
to cut the human being out of the process entirely. He can do it himself. And so, I mean, obviously there are going to be
48:37
some life-changing benefits to this stuff. There already are. But there's also going to be some, as Bill Gates is warning
48:43
and we should probably pay attention to him, that people are going to be redundant. Roles are going to be redundant on a scale
48:49
the like of which humanity has probably never seen before. But James, can I kick that in there
48:54
Do you know when the internet first came out, I had exactly the same thing when technology first came out
48:59
and I first went into computers. Did people say the internet was going to replace everybody
49:03
I don't think they did. They were so fearful. Well, can I just take it back a bit
49:07
Well, not really. I'm late for the news. Well, when computers first came out, people had the same thing
49:11
They didn't want to keep their typewriters. Look where we are now. I don't know if that's true
49:15
I hear you. I mean, yes. I mean, not normally one who says, no, this one is real
49:19
It's like moral panics, isn't it? Where you just, whatever the moral panic is, we always manage to survive
49:24
I always like to point out that video didn't kill the radio star. Hi, I'm here. And hopefully, nor will AI
49:30
But every generation has a sort of sense, no, no, no, this one's different
49:34
This really is going to threaten civilization as we know it. All the other times in history, like when they translated the Bible into English
49:40
or when they invented the telephone, or when the internet was launched. We've muddled through as a species
49:44
But this one's going to be different. I prefer Hez's attitude. No, it isn't. It's different but the same
49:50
We'll still be here in 50 years talking about something else that's happened that we think might change the nature of civilization as we know it
49:56
But I don't know. I don't know. It is 11.01. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
50:02
I am surprised. I have been frightened. I have been impressed. And I've been a little bit depressed as well by all of that
50:09
So I suppose we could say, as we are trying to reprogram our brains to remember the meaning of ineffable
50:17
I suppose we could say that all human life was here. James O'Brien on LBC
50:23
It is five minutes after 11. In a way, I think this conversation might be a corollary
50:29
That's another word I should look up before I carry on using it as much as I do. I think the next conversation might be a corollary of the one that we had before
50:36
I like this story, although I have to make a small confession. I wonder whether you do this
50:41
So I heard Sheila talking about this yesterday, and I thought, God, that's interesting. So that's why we're talking about it today
50:47
It's a story about the over-50s essentially retraining. It's based on airlines, actually
50:54
Airlines like EasyJet and Jet2 are recruiting over-50s because, well, we'll try to work out why, actually
51:01
in the course of this conversation. But when I saw that story, the reason I didn't do it yesterday is really embarrassing
51:06
Can you guess what it is? I saw that story yesterday and I thought
51:10
oh blimey, poor old over 50s and I just sort of blithely moved on to something else
51:16
and of course I am over 50 do you do this? do you get taken by surprise by your own age
51:22
one of the things that I've always noted is how long I have to scroll down now
51:27
if I'm putting my date of birth into something online if I'm putting, I had to buy some tickets for the football yesterday
51:32
and I have to put your date of birth in when you're opening up an account to get the tickets
51:36
and they'd flip it out. I was scrolling all the... My mum was born in 1940
51:41
It takes her half an hour to scroll down to her own year of birth
51:44
in the software for some online shops. So I didn't clock the fact that I am over 50
51:52
And I saw the picture and I thought, oh, that's nice. Look at those lovely old people doing nice jobs
51:57
And of course, that's me. I am one of these people. I'm 54 years old. I'd like to have done that as a quiz
52:03
But, you know, if you have no idea how old I am, how old do you think I am based on listening to me on the radio
52:08
But it would be ridiculous because I'm always wanging on about my age. And if you'd only just tuned in for the first time
52:13
you wouldn't have had any context at all upon which to answer that question. But anyway, for the avoidance of doubt
52:18
I look about 30, but I am actually 54. It's one of those miracles of modern science
52:24
They going to study me probably at some point in the future when I shuffle off this mortal coil because I may contain the secret of eternal youth I like this story and the reason why I like this story is it challenges a preconception
52:39
The reason why I don't like it is because if you see it as a corollary of the last conversation
52:44
then you're going to arrive at the conclusion that, well, it doesn't matter what you do
52:51
next because you're going to be replaced by AI eventually anyway. but we're not going there yet we're going back to humankind for this hour we're going back to
52:58
human interaction human employment and traditional jobs right because i think they're going to be
53:04
around for a while and there's this thing that again is generational that my dad's generation
53:11
expected a job for life i kind of didn't get one a lot of that generation towards the end of their
53:17
working life, so mid-50s to mid-60s, a lot of them faced redundancy. A lot of people who thought
53:24
they'd had a job for life, who were born in the 40s and the 50s, or even the 30s, actually
53:30
just survived in the workplace into the era when there were no longer any jobs for life
53:37
And that has always been talked about as a negative. And you can see why. Security is a
53:41
wonderful thing security is is you know one of the most desirable commodities that humanity can
53:49
achieve if you are secure you've got a roof over your head you've got food in your belly you've got
53:55
money in your pocket security is very easy to take for granted but um uh uh there it is it's huge so
54:05
if the idea that when you left school or when you left university
54:09
then you were going to do something that you would continue to do for the duration
54:18
all the way right through to retirement. I put it like that, it's almost a bit depressing, isn't it
54:23
You think of it like that, but it was always sold to us and it was always depicted to us that we had lost something
54:33
We had lost something. That jobs for life were a good thing, and we had lost them
54:39
And then you kind of realise about, what, 20 years ago, that there's no such thing
54:46
Most people are going to have either portfolio careers or they're going to have changes of careers
54:51
and we struggled to respond to that. But when I read this story about airlines training up people later in life
54:57
I really, really liked it. it actually sort of brought me a little bit of joy
55:02
because I suddenly thought, well, we are living longer, and I know we've got problems with needs and AI and all the rest of it
55:09
but we're just going to park that for the duration of this hour. We are living longer, and therefore we are working longer
55:15
Not only will we need to work longer because of the nature of our economy
55:19
but we will probably want to work longer. I would prefer to stay busy
55:24
You know, the number of people who don't last long into retirement because they're just not wired for inactivity is quite frightening
55:32
So we would prefer to work for longer. So if you can shed the idea that what you are doing at 25
55:39
is what you should be doing at 55, if you can get rid of any lingering resentment
55:44
that that is not the way the world works anymore, then you can hit your 50s, I would suggest
55:51
in the spirit of a pioneer. This is like your fourth act
55:57
or your third act, whereas previously your working life was one big act that covered decades
56:04
So, I think it would actually be quite uplifting to reflect today upon the thing you've done
56:13
like the retraining, as it were. And the more violent the shift is, the more interesting the story would be
56:22
And I really like these stories from the flight attendants. That's the way into this conversation
56:27
At this stage in my career, I assumed I would be too old to apply. But her daughter was there to reassure me and supported me throughout my training
56:35
She now loves the job more than ever and works alongside her daughter on some flights
56:39
12% of EasyJet crew are now aged 50 or older. You've probably noticed when you've been flying
56:44
And many of these are recent recruits, empty nesters, who've decided to pivot to a new career after the children have left home
56:51
And they're not the only airline doing this. and certainly not the only sector of employment
56:57
So, I think, and I don't know that we've ever done this before, and I think we should have done
57:01
because I need to move on from the idea that there is something mournful
57:05
attached to the idea of there no longer being jobs for life
57:10
I mean, look, what was I? 30-something? Early 30s, was I? Early 30s
57:15
I know I stayed in the media, but I never thought about being on the radio. I literally never even thought about it
57:22
I can't even remember how it happened. Yes, I can. I was on the telly
57:26
And someone came in to work with me on the telly and said, oh, my holiday cover has just pulled out
57:30
I'm going on holiday next week and the radio station I work for hasn't got a presenter. Why don't you get in touch
57:36
I had a big tax bill to pay. I was between jobs. I phoned up the programme. It's the only job I've ever asked for in my life
57:40
I phoned up the programme controller and I said, I reckon I could do that for you
57:45
Went in to LBC, did some holiday cover, never left. But it was a shift
57:51
It should be a good thing, that. the idea that you don't have to do the thing that you thought you were always going to do
57:56
But I want to talk about it being late in life, not early 30s like I was
58:00
I just want you to tell me the story of your lane change
58:06
You know, John earlier, the professor in Exeter, talking about people telling him to stay in his lane
58:09
I love the idea of a lane change. And the more, I don't want to use the word violent
58:15
What's the word that I want? The more kind of jarring, perhaps, or the bigger the lane change
58:19
So obviously, if you've gone from being a nurse to being a doctor, or from being a doctor to being a nurse
58:23
that's not very interesting. No offence. Prove me wrong. 0345 6060973. But you take my point
58:29
If you've gone from being a merchant banker to being a yoga teacher, that's the call I want
58:34
0345 6060973. What you did and why you did it. And it's inspirational, I think
58:42
We need an upbeat hour, don't we, after the last hour, the dystopian nature of the last hour
58:46
It's inspirational. Instead of thinking, as I did, well, you're going to be on the scrapheap
58:51
if I lose my job now, I'm going to be on the scrap heap. Instead of thinking like that, you're thinking
58:55
well, actually, I'm still very active. I'm still relatively young. And I am going to do something completely different
59:06
And the ability to do it is there. You can retrain, you can recalibrate
59:10
you can do all of those things. And that's what I want you to tell me
59:14
So, later life, which is an all right phrase, isn't it? It's better than old
59:19
Later life, lane changes. That would be the... Am I thinking now in podcast headlines
59:25
Is that what I'm doing? I say later life lane changes. What did we do yesterday
59:29
Pians to Parton. And earlier it was surprise, frighten or impress me
59:33
I'm thinking in podcast headlines. So later life lane changes, Keith. Later life lane changes
59:39
Later life lane changes. 0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3. I think extreme was probably the word I was looking for
59:45
So the most extreme later life lane change will win. you know the one that makes us go
59:51
I never would have imagined someone that used to do that can do that but you did and you're going to call me
59:56
and you're going to tell me James O'Brien on LBC It is 11.17, you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC, where, as you heard in the news, that situation in Nepal with the flash floods and some British people, of course, still missing is very much a developing story
1:00:12
At least 273 people dead. Any developments there, we will bring them to you either on the programme proper or, of course, in the news bulletins
1:00:22
I haven't yet found a way into the meta story, but it's huge. It was in the background, wasn't it, of the conversation we had in the last hour
1:00:28
an $18 billion settlement after Meta were pursued by a coalition of US states
1:00:36
over claims that its platforms harm children. The problem with this is they don't have to admit anything
1:00:41
You hand over $18 billion while simultaneously continuing to claim that you didn't do anything wrong
1:00:47
although they have promised to make massive transformations. That's something we should be across, but blame me
1:00:53
Maybe I should have asked ChatGPT. I couldn't see the conversation. I couldn't see the question for a phone-in topic
1:00:58
Should we do that tomorrow, Keith? Should we find a story that we think is really interesting
1:01:04
but we can't actually come up with the question to turn it into a phone-in topic and then see if a large language machine can do it in Fortis
1:01:11
Surprise, frighten, or impress? That'll be there now, won't it? That'll be in the database somewhere
1:01:15
So, well, the most successful speech radio host in the history of commercial radio in the United Kingdom
1:01:21
he did an AI phone-in when he asked, surprise, frighten, or impress. So there it would be
1:01:26
But of course, unless you are that person, you may not have been able to make the question singing
1:01:31
I don't know, I don't know. I'm thinking out loud. I should stop because I'm not planning a career change anytime soon
1:01:35
unlike every caller for the rest of this hour. We'll start with Tony who's in Carterton
1:01:39
What happened, Tony, and why? Hi, I'm very interested in your AI discussion
1:01:44
because I use that a lot in my new job. I've changed in the last few months
1:01:49
to becoming a full-time comic singing venture liquid in about 100 different places
1:01:54
care homes, dementia cafes, learning disability centres, day centres. I was a primary teacher in
1:02:00
150 schools doing a different day every day. So a supply, you'd go where you were needed
1:02:05
Yeah, I just liked it. I never liked the pressure of being the full-time person. I liked all the
1:02:12
paperwork and stuff, but I loved moving from school to school. And in lockdown, I was helping
1:02:17
to take courses for parents because my mums and dads were struggling with that horrible period of
1:02:22
learning at home and we were doing two hour lessons and i thought i need something to make a bit more fun so i grabbed a monkey out of a charity shop and they absolutely loved it so i
1:02:29
got into um ventriloquism over the next year or two and then a care home called me oh no then they
1:02:34
heard i was doing it in schools for the story time and said would you try it on our dementia patients i absolutely loved it james and it's just more from being one or two to about 100 and then
1:02:43
a couple of months ago my kind wife said i could do it full time so now we're doing it full time
1:02:47
So you've gone from being a supply teacher to a ventriloquist? Singing ventriloquist. Sorry
1:02:52
God, flip it around. Forgive me, mate. Comedy as well. Well, all ventriloquists are comics, aren't they
1:02:57
It's always funny. I've never seen a tragedy. I've never seen a tragic ventriloquist
1:03:02
Well, I've seen some bad ones. You can have that, Tony. I'm supposed to be doing a show at 11 today
1:03:08
but they muddle up the time, so I'm going back at 2. Okay. And that would be like a 45-minute show
1:03:12
with about a dozen different puppets, and they all got songs. So I've just been rehearsing Francesca, who's my girl puppet
1:03:19
who's going to be doing two Dolly Parton tributes. Oh, that's nice, isn't it? So if you put into AI, help me out with Francesca's songs
1:03:27
It will come up with the best songs. I've got a 91-year-old called Nigel and a 92-year-old called Dickie Hart
1:03:32
They've both got backgrounds as puppets. And if I say to the AI, give me some ideas for Dickie Hart
1:03:37
for a little skit by the seaside, it will know my puppet from my past AI researches
1:03:43
And it will come up with amazing... It's not very good at jokes, James, but it's very good at everything else
1:03:47
and it's amazing for that. Am I allowed to mention the puppets? Because I'd love you to have a look at them. I thought you already had
1:03:52
It's on Tony Puppets, and it's on Facebook, James. OK. So it's like just Tony and puppets
1:03:57
and if you'd have a look, that would be amazing. But AI is so amazing for..
1:04:02
Well, you don't need to contribute to the last hour. I'm enjoying your contribution to this hour
1:04:06
I mean, a supply teacher to a full-time ventriloquist is an extraordinary..
1:04:10
I mean, they used to do ventriloquism on the radio, which has always struck me as obviously and objectively hilarious
1:04:16
Educating Archie. Yeah, Educating Archie was a ventriloquist show on the radio
1:04:21
Oh, that's crazy, isn't it? Well, it is, no, because do you want to see my ventriloquism
1:04:26
Are you ready? I'm going to do some ventriloquism now, okay? What do you want me to say
1:04:31
I'm watching your mouth. What do you want me to say? Something with lots of BPs and M's in, because that's the most difficult
1:04:37
Okay, Peter Piper picked a pickled pepper. There you go. That's incredible, right
1:04:41
That was very incredible. How can you do ventriloquism on the radio
1:04:46
You could be the worst ventriloquist in the world. I know, people could be able to check on YouTube
1:04:50
and they'll see that actually when I said that, my lips won't move. I'll now do it without moving my lips
1:04:53
You ready, Tony? Okay, go ahead. Hi, hi, hi, hi. James, I've got a little boy puppet
1:04:59
who's called Ollie. He's five years old. He thinks he's a ventricleist. Oh, very nice
1:05:03
He does, and he gets lots of muddles up with his Bs, Ps and Ms
1:05:08
But I'd love you to check it out on Tony's Puppets. Well, I'll do my best. I will
1:05:12
Well, of course I will. Absolutely. I like that, though. Big career change. I mean, it's not likely to be inspirational
1:05:18
in the sense of other supply teachers listening, thinking, well, maybe I should be a ventriloquist as well
1:05:23
Oh, and given that you've just recommended something to me, Tony, have a listen, if you haven't already
1:05:27
to my full disclosure episode with Nina Conti, because that's a really lovely interview
1:05:32
a really lovely encounter, and her beginnings as a ventriloquist are not entirely dissimilar to yours
1:05:38
Robert's in Perth. Robert, what have you got? Hello, James. Lovely to be on with you
1:05:42
Never thought I'd phone, but here we are. Here we are indeed. Go on. Yeah, so I am the right demographic or the world person of that article
1:05:52
but I'm not 50, I'm 41. Okay, that's still later life, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. I've lived a life and had a career
1:05:59
and I'm on the cusp of changing. I've got my medical booked to hopefully start training
1:06:06
once I pass that, for becoming a commercial pilot. What did you do before, or what do you do currently
1:06:12
So, I've done a couple of different things, a home service business, but my main trade is to be a mountain guide, a mountaineering instructor
1:06:20
So, you're not afraid of heights then? Yeah, no, and I've worked out in places like Nepal
1:06:25
and I have friends out there, unfortunately, to see that. I checked on them yesterday. But, yes, I mean, that's a fantastic career
1:06:30
but it does take me around the world, and as you can imagine, it's tough on the body
1:06:34
So, I'm fit as a fiddle, but also aware that I'm getting older in life
1:06:38
and I have two little ones to support along with my wife. And the path is navigable, is it
1:06:44
The path to becoming a commercial pilot. It's a doable thing. So, yes, and after, I mean, this is a considered decision
1:06:51
after several years and obviously some saving up. And now I'm later, I have more financial means
1:06:59
thank goodness, to do what is a very expensive path in this case than I did when I took a couple of flying lessons
1:07:05
and had a dream when I was 17. So it's always been there in the background
1:07:09
This has, yes, but the career change in itself, I came around thinking as I get to my late
1:07:14
30s, well, what do I do? I don't want to necessarily do this all the way until I'm 65
1:07:20
And I looked at what the crossover between my skill set is you know risk assessment management leadership making decisions leading people learning those sorts of skills navigation meteorology And a lot of those skills crossed over to some of my interests
1:07:35
I considered being a paramedic, but the skill sets led me all the way full circle back to
1:07:41
one of my original passions. Lovely. When do you think you will be flying for the first time as a paid commercial pilot
1:07:49
What's the sort of time scale? What's the schedule? So the training, you can either do an accelerated integrated program
1:07:56
which is what a lot of younger people do at 18 months, but I'm going to do a modular path
1:07:59
which means I can do it much more step by step while I support my family. Probably between two and five years is my plan
1:08:06
Okay, well, best of luck with it. I mean, that's a pretty extreme shift
1:08:10
You didn't fancy ventriloquism at all. You know, those skill sets are not ones I've practiced in the mountains as much
1:08:18
still. It's 25 minutes after 11 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC. So from
1:08:24
supply teacher to ventriloquist and from mountain instructor to pilot. I like this. I like this
1:08:31
a lot. Mark Sinanik. Mark, what would you like to say? Good morning to you. I'm 66. I used my
1:08:38
old career. I used to fly all around the world selling electronics. And about six years ago
1:08:44
I thought, I've had enough for travelling, so I switched to be a chef
1:08:47
and I started chefing and pot washing and cooking, and now I work in Kharkiv for an NGO as a chef
1:08:56
and I cook food for Ukrainian hospitals and aid stations. I'm actually going back there tomorrow for a year, just back home on leave right now
1:09:03
For a year? You're on post for a year? Working for an NGO, for an aid organisation
1:09:09
That's right. I cashed in a few pensions to finance it, to be honest with you
1:09:14
I thought, what am I going to do with this? I mean, did you want..
1:09:18
Is the altruistic nature of the role an important part of your thought process
1:09:22
The fact that you're doing good? The truth of it, I've never been much into altruism
1:09:26
And I always went to Ukraine. I've got many friends out there. And I was sat with a friend of mine at a place called Cherkassi
1:09:32
She used to work for me as an au pair in Belgium. And she said, you know what
1:09:37
She used to do what? She used to work for an au pair. I thought you said an old perv
1:09:43
I thought that's a bit rude. You can't say that on the radio. My strange northern dialect
1:09:48
Carry on. Yes, an au pair. So anyway, I used to drink quite lots of copious quantities
1:09:53
of homemade vodka with her dad at the house. And she said to me one day
1:09:58
you know what, Mark, there are more things you can do here during this war than just come in and drink vodka with my dad
1:10:04
And I said, well, what? She says, well, they do need volunteers, you know, and you're a chef
1:10:09
So that's how I ended up being a chef in Ukraine. But you're being modest. I mean, you might not think that you were altruistic in the past
1:10:17
You would not be doing this. You could be earning more money as a chef somewhere else for certain
1:10:21
and you would be a lot safer as well than you are in marketing. Yeah, well, I don't get it
1:10:25
The money's not important. And to be honest, I've been doing it for two years now. But what is important? I love it
1:10:29
What is important? Oh, well, you know what? Knowing these people and getting to know them and the Ukrainians
1:10:35
and what a wonderful bunch they are and the adversities that they go through. It's been a life-changing experience for me
1:10:41
I wouldn't say it's like a road to dramatic conversion. It's pretty, it's old there, isn't it
1:10:46
I mean, to go from being an international sales executive to being a chef in a war zone
1:10:52
Yeah. And it was conscious. I love it. Becoming a chef was a conscious change
1:10:56
but then discovering this extra dimension to chefing was chance. It was accidental
1:11:03
Absolute chance. And all to a friend, all to a young lady that used to work for me many years ago
1:11:07
and look after my children in Belgium. Well, I mean, you live and learn, eh
1:11:11
You live and learn. What a lovely story. I was going to show off my local knowledge a moment ago
1:11:17
but I can't because I don't think it's there anymore. I was going to say, you don't by any chance
1:11:20
you never worked as a chef at the Hotspur Hotel in Annick, did you? No, I didn't, but I do know the Hotspur
1:11:26
It's flats now, isn't it? Is it still there as a hotel? I do. I've no idea, Jim
1:11:30
I've only been here three weeks. I came over because I got blood poisoning from a Russian carrot
1:11:35
A Russian carrot? Yeah, yeah. I caught myself peeling a carrot and I got blood poisoning
1:11:40
I blamed it on the Russians. I think it was a planted carrot. That is what chapter of the autobiography do you think that will be
1:11:45
I got blood poisoning from a Russian carrot. I don't know. I may call the book that, you know
1:11:50
It's not a bad title, mate. Seriously, if you want a gob on a stick to stick a quote on the cover
1:11:54
you know where to come. I got blood poisoning from a Russian carrot
1:11:59
That's the nature of your job, James. Yeah, it's a bit hard to explain, really. but I'll give you an example of why I love it
1:12:05
I was having a phone-in, right, about late-life career changes, and it was really interesting
1:12:10
We got a ventriloquist and a pilot, and then we got a fellow who used to be a sales executive
1:12:15
and he retrained as a chef, and the next thing you know, he's working in a war zone. Oh, and by the way, you got blood poisoning off a Russian carrot
1:12:21
so he had to come back to Anik and rest up for three weeks. AI couldn't do that, could it
1:12:27
I mean, it certainly couldn't predict that that was going to happen. If you could ask the biggest large-language what's-it in the world
1:12:33
Why did a contributor to a radio phoning program reveal that he'd got blood poisoning off a Russian carrot
1:12:39
What would the topic be? What would the question be that people were ringing in to answer
1:12:43
if one of the things that came up in the course of the conversation was I got blood poisoning off a Russian carrot
1:12:49
It would be comedy injuries, right? Wouldn't it? Or something like that? Or not comedy
1:12:54
Anyway, I'm making a point. I've no idea what the point is, but I've definitely made it now
1:12:58
Here's Dominic Ellis with your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC. It is 33 minutes after 11 and you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:13:07
Of course, some people have to change career. For example, boxers. You can't carry on, I suppose, George Foreman had a crack, didn't he
1:13:15
But this is a lovely text in answer to the question of who's got the most extreme career change later in life
1:13:20
This is from a name you may in fact recognise, Francis Ampofo
1:13:24
Beat this career change, James. From professional boxer, British and Commonwealth flyweight champion
1:13:29
to free-range egg producer. We're based in Norfolk, we listen every day
1:13:33
and we are waiting for you to come in one day and get some eggs. Known professionally as the pocket battleship, Francis Ampofo
1:13:39
There's a nice change, and I'm sure I'm not the first person to point out that you could call yourself the egg boxer
1:13:44
But that's a career change. Sport is like that. When my godfather was the football correspondent on the News of the World
1:13:50
it was in the era when footballers needed a career after football
1:13:55
It's hard to imagine that now, isn't it? They wouldn't have sort of a squillion pounds in the bank
1:14:01
But even Liverpool players. Didn't Geoff Hurst go on to sell pensions or something like that
1:14:06
But all of the England football team needed jobs after they finished playing football
1:14:11
So a lot of sports will not provide you with financial security for life
1:14:16
And even if it did, you want to do something else with your life and why not get a farm with 10,000 chickens in Norfolk
1:14:22
Happy days, Francis. Lovely to hear from you. John's in West Kirby. John, what have you got
1:14:25
Hi, James. I was 34 years in federal education, a college lecturer in construction, and I took early retirement to 55 and opened an Italian wine bar
1:14:38
What's the difference between an Italian wine bar and any other? Is it all Italian wine
1:14:42
Yeah, all Italian wines. I worked that out halfway through the question
1:14:46
You're the smart cookie. Yeah, no flies on you. Yeah, no. Why? What happened
1:14:52
had you always hoped to do it or did something happen that made you think I going to shift gears my dad had an Italian restaurant in Edinburgh He from near Lake Como And I think when he passed away it kind of coincided with me
1:15:06
I suppose just reflecting on my own career, 34 years is a long time to do a single job
1:15:12
And I guess I was stale, needed a change. I had an incredibly supportive partner
1:15:17
who kind of pushed and conjoled and persuaded me that it was something I could do
1:15:23
Quite a big risk, though. I mean, there's financial outlay. There was financial outlay, but not a million pounds
1:15:29
It wasn't money that I wasn't prepared to kind of lose. But you know what
1:15:33
It's been the best thing I've ever done. I'm so proud of it
1:15:38
I don't get that kind of horrible Monday night feeling prior to going into work on a Monday
1:15:43
I work my own hours. The local people are amazingly supportive and appreciative
1:15:49
We're south-facing, so we get a bit of sun in the summertime. We have chairs outside
1:15:54
it's incredible and I love it. When did you open your doors? We opened in February 2023
1:16:01
Okay, so just off the back of lockdown. Yeah. And you hit the ground running
1:16:05
I mean, you don't have to tell me, but what's it called? The bar is called San Fideli
1:16:10
which is where my dad was born in northern Italy. That's lovely. So it's kind of decorated with pictures of the town
1:16:19
and of my dad and of family. So it's kind of, it's got an authentic warmth
1:16:24
which is kind of what the customers feel. A little bit like a lot of the bars that was growing up
1:16:30
My dad used to take me to around Como. They're small, colloquial. They've got something special about them
1:16:35
Lovely Northern Italian hospitality. And I think that's what we try and bring
1:16:41
And, you know, so far so good. The customers seem to appreciate us. I think that's lovely
1:16:46
I think that's lovely. What was on the premises before? I'm just a bit of an anorak when it comes to high streets
1:16:51
It's been two bars previously. and for different reasons they didn't work out
1:16:58
and yeah and you've got it right you've got San Fideli San Fideli
1:17:03
I love it I love it mate this is such a lovely story and you were in your 50s
1:17:07
when you did this then yeah 50 58 today if you don't mind me saying
1:17:11
is it yeah absolutely I wish I knew the Italian for happy birthday but you'll have to make do
1:17:15
with the bog standard British version happy birthday that'll do me brother that'll do me
1:17:18
thank you very much what a lovely story absolutely and you can hear it in your voice I didn't know you
1:17:23
when you were teaching construction in further education, obviously. But I can hear it
1:17:27
I bet you didn't sound as light and happy then as you do now. And that Monday morning, Sunday night thing
1:17:32
I don't get that. It's the best thing in the world not to get that. I had it in my last job
1:17:36
but I haven't had that job for 20-odd years. I had it in newspapers. I used to have it at school
1:17:41
I always used to associate it with last of the summer wine. That's what he's talking about
1:17:45
And the opening bars to last of the summer wine come on, if you're my age
1:17:49
that's when your tummy turns over because you've got to go back to school tomorrow and you really don't want to
1:17:53
especially when you're a weekly boarder. I was a weekly boarder for a while. Songs of Praise, would it be? Songs of Praise
1:17:58
What would it be for you? What would be on the telly on a Sunday night that made you go, oh, , Antiques Roadshow
1:18:04
Lovely theme tune, you see. They all had lovely theme tunes, but they were all associated with misery
1:18:08
because it would mean you had to go back to school tomorrow. There's nothing worse than Sunday night when you're a weekly boarder
1:18:13
Well, I mean, obviously famine and stuff, but, I mean, in terms of being a schoolchild
1:18:20
you're a weekly boarder, so you're at home for the weekend and then Sunday night comes around
1:18:24
and you've got to go back to school and your mum is saying to you, I told you not to board
1:18:29
You insisted you wanted to be a boarder and I said, well, it's too late now, mum. You've got to go back to school
1:18:34
I could be coming home every night. I could be having mum's dinners, Yorkshire puddings
1:18:38
instead of eating the slop that they served. Anyway, sorry, I'm getting distracted. John, stay safe
1:18:43
Next time I'm in... Is it in West Cur? He's gone, hasn't he? Is it in West Cur
1:18:47
Anyway, we never know. Is it in West Curby, San Fidelity? It is in West Curby
1:18:51
Yeah, that's us. I don't know why you hung around. I just went off on a complete tangent then, John
1:18:54
I'm very touched by your patience. Graham's in Ramsgate. Graham, what happened to you
1:19:00
Morning. Tangents are good for you, James. They are very good for you, it's true. And that's what we're talking about
1:19:04
Hey, isn't it? Spot you, spot the poet. Well, several things happened to me on my little journey
1:19:10
I stopped being a company director with all the benefits to come with that
1:19:14
Yeah. The day I realised my company was no longer mine, all because I met somebody in the corridor
1:19:21
at the water machine and asked him who he was being accompanied by
1:19:25
and he said, I work here. And I thought, this isn't my company anymore
1:19:29
Yeah, fair enough. I resigned the next day and became a taxi driver
1:19:35
And then at the age of 59, I had a... I'd been on a bit of a journey with my grandson
1:19:41
who's autistic. Okay. And I became a special needs teaching assistant working with autism and..
1:19:50
Other special needs. So you did that because you realised that it was a sector that would benefit from people like you
1:20:01
I mean, it was obviously almost vocational by this point. It's very odd to develop a vocation that late in life
1:20:08
I took a massive pay cut. The arrival of the grandson taught me a lot about me
1:20:17
Go on. because he's just so different. And it forced me to just completely think about life differently
1:20:25
and think about everything that you do, that you take for granted differently
1:20:30
And I realised I was quite good at dealing with it, if you know what I mean
1:20:34
Yeah, what does it take? Patience, obviously. What else? You have to..
1:20:41
I'll use one of your phrases. You have to be able to give your head a wobble. Right
1:20:45
Of course you do. You have to realise that... You've got to develop a completely different palette of moods and reactions, haven't you
1:20:52
And you have to learn to see things in a completely different way
1:20:57
because that is autism, they don't see the world the same as we do
1:21:01
I have some autistic godsons, and the thing that is hardest to do
1:21:06
is to explain to people that they can't, they're not doing this because they want to
1:21:12
or because they're naughty, or because they don't care about your reactions or your feelings
1:21:15
they're doing it because they can't not do it. And they're perceiving what you perceive
1:21:21
as a very, very, very simple, straightforward thing. They're perceiving it in a completely different way
1:21:26
And it's, yeah, it's fascinating. It caused me to change lane, as you put it
1:21:32
Well, I didn't invent that phrase. I'm not claiming the credit. And also, you were already a taxi driver
1:21:38
Sorry. That was pathetic. What's the training process like? how long does it take to do it
1:21:46
Well, I actually took a job working in a special needs unit
1:21:51
Yeah. I didn't really need training as such because I had the life experience
1:21:56
So interview and a conversation explaining what your background was, what your interests were born of
1:22:02
and they thought, yeah, he could probably do a job for us. Yeah, and I went and did a single day under observation
1:22:08
to make sure I wasn't a lunatic. Of course, of course. What a lovely story
1:22:13
Yeah, I got the job. Final question, I promise. I'm getting a bit emotional. It's a lovely story, this
1:22:19
Final question. The difference between looking after children that are not... I mean that you don love I mean you might grow to love them but you love your grandson from the minute he born So you coming at him from a different space from the space you coming from when you looking after children
1:22:35
that you don't have a personal connection with, but you took to it
1:22:39
I spend my life wanting to be in their head. Yeah. If that doesn't sound mad
1:22:45
No, it doesn't sound mad at all, because that's the best way to help them. Sometimes we learn a lot about ourselves by doing exactly that
1:22:53
you suddenly realise what you thought was important, necessary, vital, isn't actually, in the great scheme of things
1:23:03
And goodness me, what an important... It's never too late to learn that lesson, is it
1:23:07
No, so at the age of 59, I did that challenge. I've never looked back
1:23:11
I'm a lot poorer as a result, but... And you're still doing it now
1:23:16
I did actually write a book about exactly the thing you're talking about
1:23:21
Go on. I wrote a book based on my experience when I left
1:23:25
when I stopped being a company director. Yeah. And what I went on to do after
1:23:29
I won't name it, because I'm not trying to sell anything here. You can if you want, mate. In fact, the fact that you didn't means that you should
1:23:35
If you want. Oh, well, okay. Well, there's three books total now, but... Blimey
1:23:39
Honestly, give him an inch. Give him an inch, he'll take a mile. The original one was called Daisy's Diaries
1:23:45
and it's challenging life on a 1948 Triumph motorcycle, because that's what I did for a year when I gave up that
1:23:52
There did be a lot of people listening who are on rails, Graham, you know
1:23:57
and it never really occurs to them. And I suspect you were probably like this until suddenly you weren't
1:24:02
where you think that's it now for me, this is what I'll do. This will get me over the wire and then I'll retire or do something else
1:24:08
And then you've managed to bring in so many different dimensions to one life
1:24:12
It's a wonderful thing. Thank you. And your grandson is lucky to have you, Graham, really lucky to have you
1:24:18
not everybody in his situation. It is coming up to quarter to 12
1:24:23
You're listening to James O'Brien. Good news from the Wirral. Brooke's been in touch
1:24:27
She says, I live on the Wirral and can confirm. San Fideli is a five-star wine bar. We went for an hour and stayed until closing time
1:24:32
Great wine, great food. And the bloke, I presume it was... And the bloke behind the bar is exactly the kind
1:24:39
that you'd want to have a glass with. I kind of got that impression, to be honest with you
1:24:43
We'll stick it on the list, Keith, when we do our grand tour of hostelries
1:24:47
and restaurants owned by listeners to this programme whose friendships we have built over the years
1:24:53
When I retire, that's probably what I'll do, actually. That'll be my lane change
1:24:56
I'll just go round the country. I'll pop down to see... I'll go see Francis in Norfolk for my eggs
1:25:02
I'll pop up to the Wirral for a nice... Primitivo, probably. I bet they've got a nice Primitivo in the cellar there
1:25:09
That'll be nice. And Keith will drive. I'll be in the sidecar, like Wallace and Gromit
1:25:13
James O'Brien on LBC. 11.48 is the time. Too many messages, too little time
1:25:20
I've lost the one I really liked about someone retraining as a barrister who's listening to the programme, retrained as a barrister
1:25:25
listening to the programme while waiting to go into court. But that was 40 minutes ago, so they're probably in court now
1:25:29
and they won't know that I actually saw their message and they managed to lose it. But it's a good example
1:25:34
Also, I can't remember what they were doing before, but it was definitely something that constituted an extreme career change
1:25:39
And that's what we're talking about. Ryan's in Sheffield. Ryan, what would you like to say? Hey, James
1:25:43
And yeah, so I was a lawyer for 11 years, and now I'm a life coach and a yoga teacher
1:25:49
Wouldn't it be funny if the bloke I was just talking about had been a life coach and yoga teacher and then retrained as a lawyer
1:25:55
You'd almost have sort of been parallel universes or ships that pass in the night. Why? What made you make the change
1:26:02
I guess the usual corporate story, really. I loved being a lawyer initially and then had a child
1:26:07
That changed how I saw my life. I looked ahead and I was like, I want to be around
1:26:12
I want to do the school round. I don't want to be working all the hours that God sends
1:26:16
and be stressed out all the time. And so I decided that I need to make a change
1:26:21
but it took me about five years to actually make the shift. You mean corporate law, was it
1:26:27
Yeah. So you were earning megabucks, were you? Yeah, which is always one of the big things
1:26:31
that stops people from making the shift. I find it fascinating. Because you get, and you were young, I suppose
1:26:38
if it was your first child, or relatively young, But that idea of your life has slotted into your income, hasn't it
1:26:48
It's the old Mr. McCorber thing in David Copperfield. You know, happiness is when you've got a penny left over at the end of the year
1:26:56
It doesn't matter how much you earn. You've got a little bit left over at the end of the year, you'll be happy
1:27:00
And if you've gone a little bit over your income, you'll be unhappy. I kind of paraphrase massively
1:27:05
But you managed, you had that conversation with you. I do not need to live at this level
1:27:11
financially or materially. I want other things from my life. Yeah, because when you're in the job
1:27:18
you grow into it, right? And you grow into a certain lifestyle. And I think what happens is
1:27:22
you have to make that shift in your idea of... Well, mortgages, most obviously
1:27:27
You've got to pay the mortgage. So did you have to move house? Forgive me for being nosy
1:27:31
No, that's fine. No, I moved... I was living overseas. I was working overseas
1:27:34
Got it. We moved back to the UK. yeah moved out of London
1:27:38
and yeah the good thing about being a lawyer is I still have the skills
1:27:42
I can still freelance but I'm not on that hamster wheel anymore
1:27:46
and that was the big shift really stepping off the hamster wheel letting go of the status
1:27:51
letting go of the idea that you have to climb the ladder and being comfortable doing good work
1:27:55
You're in charge of your own destiny You sound like a man who's in charge of his own destiny
1:28:00
and almost everybody on the megabuck city salaries is not which is why the stress as you say
1:28:05
is so considerable. Ryan, thank you. I'm moving on only because I have Oxfam's humanitarian lead
1:28:13
in Nepal on the line, Santosh Pandey, who obviously has an awful lot on his plate today
1:28:19
joining me from Kathmandu. I suppose we should start with the very latest news, Santosh
1:28:24
What can you tell us about the situation on the ground? Yeah, thank you
1:28:30
Thank you very much for this opportunity to speak on behalf of Nepal
1:28:35
You know, there was a massive flood in Nepal. Actually, it was a flash flood in Nepal
1:28:41
northern side of Nepal in the areas we share the boundary with China
1:28:48
So, yeah, it's early in the morning, so it was a massive flash flood
1:28:55
You know, within a few minutes, the level of the river was like rise by meters
1:29:02
seven or eight meters. So people did not have the chance to receive the early warning messages or the evacuation decisions
1:29:09
So it has a major, major impact in Nepal. What will the response consist of when organizations like Oxfam start trying to bring aid to the area and support
1:29:24
What will be the key priorities? What will be the biggest jobs that your colleagues face
1:29:30
Yeah, thank you. So the first and foremost, because we are within hours of the crisis
1:29:35
So we are completely supporting and providing the technical assistance, whatever we can as a humanitarian agency to support the government
1:29:45
to operate the search and rescue and life-saving operations right now, because there are a lot of people still missing, you know
1:29:52
because the entire villages have been sick away. There was no one to count actually how many households were like
1:29:59
damaged by the disaster, you know. The entire villages were stripped away
1:30:03
So for now, we are supporting the government for the sorts and rescue operations
1:30:09
Apart from that, there has been an urgent appeal from the government of Nepal
1:30:13
regarding the life-saving humanitarian assistance, including non-food items, the WASC items, degree tickets, sanitary pads to the women
1:30:24
and so on, likewise. Okay. And people can find out more about
1:30:29
how they can help Oxfam by going to your website. Could you tell me something about the terrain affected
1:30:36
What kind of, I mean, were they highly populated? Is it a built-up part of Nepal
1:30:43
And what would the dwellings, what would the buildings be like? Because the damage was like across the landscape in Nepal
1:30:54
It originated from the Himalayas. It flew to the mid hills and then up to the Tarai, you know
1:31:00
So it was a diverse type of like housing typologies, everything like that
1:31:04
But from the images, I'm sure you have already seen through the social media
1:31:08
because the way the regional markets, some of the local markets with like concrete buildings and infrastructures have been swept away
1:31:16
So it was a very, very strong debris flow. So even in the concrete houses could not resist east
1:31:24
And even a lot of public infrastructures, critical infrastructures, including police offices, municipality offices have been damaged
1:31:34
And as you say, at least 1,500 people still missing and 330 at the last count known to be dead
1:31:42
We wish you the very best, Santosh Pandey. And obviously, you've got much more important things to be doing than talking to me
1:31:49
So I'm very grateful to you for your time and attention this morning. Santosh Pandey there, the lead, humanitarian lead in Nepal for Oxfam
1:31:57
where, as you will almost certainly know by now, the so-called flash floods or a tsunami from the sky
1:32:04
as it was described by one of the aid workers already in the area
1:32:08
now using helicopters to search for survivors and drop emergency supplies to the thousands of people who have survived
1:32:14
but who are now completely cut off in towns and valleys, because roads as well as entire villages have been washed away
1:32:23
And I mean, it is inevitable for our media to turn its attention
1:32:28
to the number of British people affected. And it is estimated that 33 British tourists
1:32:34
including a 13-year-old girl, are believed to be among the hundreds of people who went missing yesterday
1:32:39
in this catastrophic flood caused by a glacial collapse in the Himalayas
1:32:45
Oh, man. It is 11.56. we steer our attention back to the conversation about late life career changes
1:32:52
but we also remind each other that it's Thursday. Therefore, Mystery Hour is coming up next
1:32:58
And I've got a funny Kemi Baden-Ock story, which hopefully I'll have time to share as well. But before that, Nicole is in Notting Hill
1:33:03
Nicole, what would you like to say? Yeah, hi, James. How are you? Very well, thanks. What's on your mind
1:33:09
Just wanted to tell you about my career change late in life
1:33:12
I'm 59 now, and three years ago, I was teaching in an adult education service
1:33:19
I was a course leader teaching graphic design. Oh, yeah. I've been doing it for 16 years, and my career change was to go into a charity
1:33:27
that supports women that are involved in prostitution or being coerced or sex trafficked
1:33:34
So, yeah, big change. Tell me about the kind of process of redirecting yourself
1:33:41
What happened? What made you think this is what I should do? Oh, well, I've always wanted to work in a charity sector
1:33:47
but it's really hard to get your foot in the door if you haven't done it before. So I was going via writing loads of applications
1:33:55
for homeless charities and stuff. And I just changed church. And the pastor of the church is the CEO of this company, charity
1:34:05
And I was saying to my husband, I'm going to go and work for her. And two years later, I ended up working for her
1:34:10
And I did take a big pay drop as well, about six grand
1:34:13
because I wanted my foot in the door. And three years later, I've got promoted twice
1:34:18
So, yeah. Is it harrowing work, but also, I imagine, very uplifting
1:34:23
because you're saving people from hideous situations. Yeah, well, we're trying to save people
1:34:29
but it's, yeah, horrific stories that we hear all the time. And it's just shocking, the amount of women that are in this position
1:34:36
a lot of women it's about survival sex as well and yeah
1:34:43
all sorts of stories that will and you've never looked back in terms of
1:34:47
the satisfaction you get from doing the wrong boy we covered an awful lot of ground in the course of this hour
1:34:54
from beginning with the ventriloquist and ending with you Nicole at the incredibly
1:34:59
serious end of the conversation but somehow all of the stories having an inspirational element all of their own
1:35:06
thank you it's coming up to 11 59 she reminds me of a story that again i don't i hope you don't mind
1:35:12
me doing this when i tell you about things that are in the news that we're not actually going to talk about together but which i think in case you've missed them should be brought to your
1:35:19
attention do you remember a couple of years ago um it was 2023 in fact when we were talking about
1:35:26
440 unaccompanied asylum seeking children going missing from home office accommodations precisely the sort of children that honest bob jenrick felt were being treated too well in this
1:35:39
country so he got the murals in the processing centers or the accommodations where they were
1:35:43
staying he ordered the murals of of cartoon characters to be painted over that's just never
1:35:49
gets never never never becomes one scintilla less disgusting does it robert jenrick i don't think he
1:35:56
deserves his nickname when we're reflecting on that story but 440 went missing i think on his watch
1:36:02
40 still are not a story you're going to see anywhere hashtag save our children, hashtag save our women
1:36:08
which applies to the work that Nicole does as well but 40 children who went missing
1:36:12
in the UK have still not been found according to a parliamentary report published today
1:36:18
It's working a charity sector but it's really hard to get your foot in the door
1:36:23
if you haven't done it before so I was going via writing loads of applications
1:36:29
for homeless charities and stuff and I just changed church and the pastor of the church
1:36:37
is the CEO of this company, charity and I was saying to my husband
1:36:41
I'm going to go and work for her and two years later I ended up working for her and I did take a big pay drop as well
1:36:47
about six grand because I wanted my foot in the door and three years later I've got promoted twice
1:36:52
so yeah. Is it harrowing work but also I imagine very uplifting
1:36:57
because you're saving people from hideous situations. Yeah, well, we're trying to save people
1:37:03
but it's horrific stories that we hear all the time, and it's just shocking the amount of women that are in this position
1:37:12
A lot of women, it's about survival sex as well. And, yeah, all sorts of stories that will, yeah
1:37:20
And you've never looked back in terms of the satisfaction you get from doing it all. Never looked back I absolutely love this job yeah Boy well I mean we covered an awful lot of ground in the course of this hour from beginning with the ventriloquist and ending with you Nicole at the you know incredibly serious end of the conversation
1:37:36
But somehow all of the stories having an inspirational element all of their own
1:37:41
Thank you. It's coming up to 11.59. She reminds me of a story that, again, I hope you don't mind me doing this when I tell you about things that are in the news that we're not actually going to talk about together
1:37:51
but which I think, in case you've missed them, should be brought to your attention
1:37:54
Do you remember a couple of years ago, it was 2023, in fact
1:37:59
when we were talking about 440 unaccompanied asylum-seeking children going missing from home office accommodations
1:38:08
Precisely the sort of children that Honest Bob Jenrick felt were being treated too well in this country
1:38:14
So he got the murals in the processing centres or the accommodations where they were staying
1:38:18
He ordered the murals of cartoon characters to be painted over. that just never gets
1:38:24
never becomes one scintilla less disgusting does it Robert Jendrick I don't think he deserves
1:38:31
his nickname when we're reflecting on that story but 440 went missing
1:38:35
I think on his watch 40 still are not a story you're going to see anywhere
1:38:41
hashtag save our children hashtag save our women which applies to the work that Nicole
1:38:45
does as well but 40 children who went missing in the UK have still
1:38:49
not been found according to a parliamentary report published today. On your radio, on the LBC app, and..
1:38:59
Play LBC. Leading Britain's conversation, this is LBC. From Global's newsroom at midday
1:39:11
Andy Burnham says the UK has offered £5 million to the Nepalese government following devastating flash floods
1:39:17
More than 30 British tourists are among hundreds of missing people near the Nepal-Tibet border
1:39:23
At least 270 people have been killed. The Prime Minister says emergency responders are also on standby to help
1:39:29
In the past, Nepal has been there for Britain in our hour of need
1:39:34
and we will be there for Nepal in its hour of need right now
1:39:38
So the immediate offer that the Foreign Secretary has relayed to the Nepalese government
1:39:43
is an offer of first responders, search and rescue support. Britain excels in this, and we're there and we're ready to be deployed
1:39:51
Investigations are underway after a vehicle was crashed into a wall outside a house near Middlesbrough in the early hours of this morning
1:39:58
The property in the Southbank area was empty and no injuries have been reported
1:40:02
Police say it's not yet been confirmed whether they're linking it to what happened to wider organised crime
1:40:09
Two men have died after falling into a slurry tank in Cheshire. It happened on a farm at Ashton by Budworth yesterday
1:40:14
The men aged 72 and 42 were pulled from the tank by emergency teams but couldn't be saved
1:40:21
Official figures show 13% of 16-24-year-olds were not in education, employment or training between April and June
1:40:30
981,000 are currently classified as NEETs. That's down 30,000 on the previous quarter
1:40:36
The Office for National Statistics says just over half of that figure are young men
1:40:40
The Working Pensions Secretary Pat McFadden has told LBC this morning he is determined to help people find employment
1:40:46
What we've started to do is change the system by reducing the financial incentive
1:40:51
and the financial difference between the health element and the standard element
1:40:56
and also inviting those young people to come forward, engage with support
1:41:01
The Home Office says the number of people being housed temporarily in asylum hotels fell to just over 16,000 at the end of June
1:41:09
That's a drop of 50% compared with the same point a year ago. And plug-in solar panels can now legally be sold in the UK for the first time
1:41:17
It's hoped that the devices could reduce household energy bills by more than £100 a year
1:41:22
In the city a short time ago, the FTSE 100 trading down 54 at £10,824
1:41:28
The pound buys $1.35 and a euro 16. LBC weather. Heavy rain will continue to push north over England and Wales throughout the afternoon
1:41:38
Mostly dry for Northern Ireland and Scotland. A high of 26 degrees
1:41:42
From Global's newsroom for LBC, I'm Dominic Ellis. This is LBC from Global, leading Britain's conversation
1:42:23
Mystery Hour with James O'Brien. Goodness me, is it that time of the week already
1:42:29
Three minutes after 12 is the time. Thursday is the day. That doesn't come as a major shock to anybody
1:42:34
And Mystery Hour is the name of the game, because it is a game, the only hour of the week where we actually play formal games together
1:42:40
as opposed to slightly informal ones. The way it works is this. Someone rings in with a question
1:42:47
A mystery, perhaps a riddle, but a question that must have an answer. So not a riddle, really
1:42:52
A question that has an answer you have so far been unable to find
1:42:59
But you're pretty sure it must have one. So it's like a who question or a why, a where, a when, a wither
1:43:05
Even, as the immortal words have it, the occasional wherefore. and having got your question on the board
1:43:12
someone else will ring in with the answer and I'm not sure I can string that out any longer
1:43:19
to get to the end of the music that's it really, isn't it? that's Mystery Hour
1:43:22
there are prizes for my favourite contribution of the week and the management's decision is final
1:43:29
you can win a Mystery Hour game there are two one is in a box and one is in a tin
1:43:33
the big one's in a box the travel one's in a tin they're two completely different games
1:43:37
if you've got one you would still enjoy the other If you've got the other, you would still enjoy the one
1:43:41
You can find out more about the game at mysteryhour.co.uk. I wonder if you love anyone enough to give them a Mystery Hour game
1:43:49
I hope you do. It must be a very bleak and arid existence if you don't. And the full terms and conditions for that competition element of this hour
1:43:57
can be found at lbc.co.uk. And that's pretty much it, really. I mean, people answering the phones have a final say on whether you get on air or not
1:44:10
So don't dilly-dally or delay or argue or debate. It's sometimes a case of repetition, sometimes a case of inappropriateness
1:44:21
I'm afraid they just think you're a bit boring, and therefore your question won't get on the board
1:44:25
Although you'd be amazed how many boring questions do get. No, I'm not selling it right. Very occasionally a question that might be
1:44:30
Well, no. So often I find myself thinking a question is boring
1:44:34
but lo and behold, they often turn out to be the questions with the most interesting answers
1:44:39
So I suppose what I'm cautiously suggesting to you, if you're new to this feature, is don't pay much attention to me
1:44:45
Don't pay much attention to me unless I'm answering a question, in which case I will almost always be 100% correct
1:44:50
at which point Keith will activate the round of applause. In the frankly unlikely event but we had two already this week outside of the mystery hour en verons I think we had two Have we had two You will receive the highest awards that British Radio can bestow upon a caller to a programme
1:45:05
It's called the Rayliota. And it channels a slightly mish-mashed line from the classic film Field of Dreams
1:45:12
to reflect the fact that if we are doing our job correctly at LBC
1:45:17
then we will take calls from people who are unbelievably well qualified
1:45:22
to make the contribution that they're making. so yesterday for example we spoke to the founder of the dolly parton fan club the british wing of
1:45:30
the dolly parton fan club and and he got a ray liota because he happened to be listening
1:45:34
we were marking the passing of that magnificent human being and who would be better qualified to
1:45:40
comment on that than the bloke who spent 25 years running the dolly parton fan club here in britain
1:45:45
and who met her on several different occasions um a lovely moment and and of course the other
1:45:51
a little bit of the Ray Liotta is it's the kind of caller who other radio programmes would phone up to book
1:45:59
But on this programme, they phone us, which was the other one this week
1:46:03
We were talking about cars, or it was a car-related conversation. It was actually about crime and technology
1:46:10
It was not a motoring phone-in, but we still got James Mater ring-in, formerly, of course, Top Gear and The Grand Tour
1:46:16
which I see has been recast. And in fact, on that subject, a little motoring interlude for you
1:46:21
BBC's just announced that Top Gear is coming back at the Edinburgh Television Festival
1:46:25
They've made the announcement at the Edinburgh Television Festival. The programme's not coming back at the Edinburgh Television Festival
1:46:31
Does that cover it? I haven't done the Cammy Badenot story yet either, but I will try to remember to do that before 1 o'clock today
1:46:37
The number you need to submit your question, or indeed to submit your answer, if you hear somebody else ask a question to which you know the answer
1:46:43
remains, as ever, on this programme, 0345 6060 973. and that's pretty much it
1:46:51
anything goes if you've got something the kids have been bugging you all holiday
1:46:55
about why did we do this mum then it's your perfect opportunity
1:46:59
to get an actual answer who's, why's what, where's when and it's quiet
1:47:03
because we did the hit with the gentleman in Nepal a moment ago
1:47:07
which means that the usual build up to Mystery Hour didn't happen before 12 noon
1:47:12
which means that there are currently three phone lines free so don't hold back on the grounds
1:47:16
that you never get through you will do one day everybody does eventually and today could be the day
1:47:21
0345 6060 973 I think that's it should we crack on? have I forgotten anything Keith
1:47:28
excuse me a moment I'm consulting my esteemed colleague Keith we good to go
1:47:33
we're good to go Catherine's in calendar in Scotland Catherine question or answer
1:47:39
it's a question James carry on so it's actually my partner's had this question
1:47:45
we're on holidays and we've been seeing a lot of cooks, chefs and the standard uniform we've seen
1:47:50
is they've got the white shirt and then their trousers are like that black and white checkerboard
1:47:55
and we're sort of wondering why is it the cooks and chefs wear the checkerboard
1:48:00
trousers, what's that about? It's a good question that black and white check trousers
1:48:05
in the kitchens everything else makes sense why would they wear those
1:48:10
I like that, have you seen the film Tony yet, have you seen Tony
1:48:16
Tony, no, is it good? Yeah, it's brilliant. It's about the chef, Anthony Bourdain
1:48:20
Oh, yes, yes. No, I haven't seen it yet, but it's on the list. I absolutely recommend it
1:48:24
It's an absolute scorcher of a film. And do you know who's in it? Who
1:48:29
The daughter of the man that walks past this studio every day
1:48:32
shortly before one o'clock. Oh. Go on. Oh, no, you've got to have a guess
1:48:39
Is it yourself? Is it James O'Byrne? No, my girls are not actresses, sadly
1:48:44
And also, it'd be very hard for me to walk past my own studio while also sitting in it
1:48:48
I'm good, Catherine, but I'm not that good. It's got Aled's daughter in it, Aled's girl, Amelia
1:48:53
Aled Jones' daughter is making amazing waves in Hollywood and beyond at the moment, and she's brilliant in that film
1:48:59
And do you know, I said to him, oh, your daughter's great in that film. And you just sort of get that lovely sense of paternal pride
1:49:06
It must be such a magical thing to see. But it's a brilliant film, and I recommend it very heartily
1:49:11
And Aled should be wandering by in about, what do we reckon, Keith
1:49:15
48 minutes, give or take. Thank you, Catherine. Enjoy the rest of your holidays
1:49:19
I always get doubly flattered when people take time out of a holiday to ring me, as opposed
1:49:23
to a more boring day. Russ is in Bangor, continuing the Northern Irish
1:49:27
theme. Russ, question or answer? Question. Carry on. Very high, I don't know where I went
1:49:33
high voice then. Well, I did too, it's contagious. Yeah, I know, I could hear you doing it
1:49:37
Cabris Whisper and Cabris Twirl, why do they taste differently? Yeah, it's easy, this
1:49:44
Okay. When, it's quite funny the things you remember, isn't it, mate
1:49:49
My late father was on the Telegraph. He brought some whispers home when they were launched
1:49:55
It was the first, I think the whisper came out before the twirl
1:49:59
It did. It did. Because do you remember, there used to be a dip flake that went. Yeah, that was it
1:50:03
Yeah, there was a dip flake. And then that was a bit like the Galaxy did a version of that as well, didn't they
1:50:08
It wasn't as good, though, because it was Galaxy chocolate. I prefer Galaxy. Anyway, that's a conversation for a different
1:50:12
I want to do a podcast about snacks. but no one will commission it
1:50:16
I just want to do a podcast about snacks, like go through all the new snacks, like, you know, when you get new flavours of things
1:50:22
and I'm sure someone else has already done it. I'm sure you've found the website Pimp My Snack
1:50:27
I haven't, no, but I will now, and they'll go, that's why they don't want a podcast about snacks
1:50:31
No, no, it's because they do giant snacks. Oh, I've seen that. They make an enormous wagon wheel and stuff like that
1:50:36
They make an enormous cream egg that's like four foot high. You know we were talking about career changes in the last hour
1:50:41
That's the one. That's the one, I think, yeah. could be it. Could be the one. James
1:50:45
and I Brian's pimp my snack. That sounds like a Channel 5 show. It does actually. Alright
1:50:49
mate. Maybe Channel 4. The Whisper was the first pure chocolate product to be launched
1:50:57
by Cadbury's since the Flake. And the Flake I think came out
1:51:01
before the Second World War. Okay. And you might as well ask why does a
1:51:07
Whisper taste different from a Flake? Yes. That's a fair point. And the answer is texture
1:51:13
The answer is that the whisper... The air is making the difference
1:51:16
Yeah, it is because you've got so much air. Are whispers still a thing? Do you still get a whisper
1:51:21
Yeah, yeah, because when I go to the shop, my daughter will not have a..
1:51:25
I buy twirls, but she will only have... She wants a whisper. She wants a whisper
1:51:29
So it is, if you do a... I mean, if you melted it down, it's probably identical
1:51:34
but there's something about the mouth feel that makes it taste different, and it melts down in your mouth
1:51:40
The way it melts in your mouth probably affects the flavour, and it's all about the holes
1:51:47
So do bubbles make things taste differently? That's a more general question, isn't it? Well, you're not allowed to do that
1:51:52
You're not allowed to. I know I'm not. I'm not allowed to follow up. No. So the answer is it tastes different because of the aeration
1:51:59
Okay. You're not going to let some Cadbury's expert on the show? I will, yeah. I'm not going to take a round of applause
1:52:03
but it was just a fond memory of my dad because he was so honourable, my old man
1:52:07
He'd never do freebies. I have the opposite approach to freebies as a journalist
1:52:12
in that I will accept almost anything legal. Or maybe illegal. There's any mail writing about you here
1:52:17
I'm not a hypocrite. Exactly that. Anything at all. But Dad would not do anything
1:52:21
It wouldn't let, you know, if a new car was launched, he might take it for a test drive but he wouldn take it on holiday even though they offered him the chance to do that But he brought home some free chocolate so it was quite a moment in our house And the whisper we were among the first non employees to eat whispers
1:52:39
What's your choice? Is it the twirl or the whisper? I'd go with the twirl, mate, actually
1:52:45
I would. It's just far more chocolatey. It is. Well, it is far more chocolatey
1:52:49
because it hasn't got as many bubbles in it. There's more air in a whisper, which is why it tastes different
1:52:53
But I will allow a expert, a chocolatier, I will allow an expert to expand upon my answer
1:53:02
Russ, lovely stuff. Keep eating. 12.13 is the time. Guy's in Ashford
1:53:08
Guy, question or answer? Question, please, James. Carry on, Guy. In prolonged periods of drought
1:53:15
where is all the water that is normally in the reservoirs, rivers, in the ground, in the clouds
1:53:21
Over the last three months, we've had no rain. There have been no clouds in the sky. All the water's gone from the rivers and the reservoirs and the lakes
1:53:29
and there's none in the ground or the plants. Where is the water? Did you hear a minute ago when I said sometimes the questions
1:53:38
that seem to be the most ridiculous turn out to be the most interesting
1:53:42
I think, yes. Do you think we might be in that territory now, or are we going to decide that this was a ridiculous question in a few minutes
1:53:48
It might be ridiculous. I don't know. Because there's humidity, there's water, vapour in the air
1:53:54
but there's always that. But where is all the other water that's normally around
1:53:58
Where is all the water? And it's a perfect Mystery Hour question
1:54:03
It's the middle of a drought, where is all the water? There's a finite amount of water. I mean, there's not quite, is there, because it's hydrogen and oxygen
1:54:10
but there's a finite amount of hydrogen and oxygen in there. But I don't think anything makes it
1:54:15
Nothing produces water at any point. It's just a cycle, famously. so there is a finite amount of water
1:54:22
of H2O not just of its constituent elements in the universe in the atmosphere
1:54:28
on the planet and there's none of it here so I suppose by rights
1:54:33
and I don't want to make light of what is going on in Nepal obviously
1:54:37
but by logic you kind of wonder whether there is a lot more water
1:54:41
in some other parts of the world as a consequence of there being so little here yes
1:54:46
but the whole of northern Europe has been in the same sort of situation we have
1:54:50
Yeah, yeah, it has. Where is all the water? Okay, you're on. Thanks very much
1:54:55
I like it. But as I say, it may turn out to be daft, but the fact that neither of us can work out
1:55:00
why it might be daft means that, for now at least, it's not daft. 03456060973
1:55:06
A message for... Oh, I see. Emma sent me a message saying, I completely agree with this caller
1:55:10
About halfway into Guy's conversation, I thought, how can you agree with Guy's asking where all the water is
1:55:15
But, of course, you were referring to the preference of a twirl over a whisper
1:55:20
You're just probably a minute behind. 12.16 is the time. James O'Brien on LBC
1:55:25
15 minutes after 12, you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:55:29
Why do chefs wear Czech trousers? Why do whispers taste different from twirls or flakes
1:55:36
Do you know that a flake can't melt? Did you know that? It's one of those little useful bits
1:55:40
Oh, speaking of fascinating bits of trivia, I've got an absolute doozy for you
1:55:47
I can't believe I haven't shared this with you before. This is my favourite bit of film trivia
1:55:52
And I can't believe I only discovered it last week. If you already know the answer to this, forgive me
1:55:57
but you'll have to agree that it is absolutely incredible. Who was the role of John McClane in Die Hard, right
1:56:06
To whom was there a contractual obligation to offer that role before they could offer it to Bruce Willis
1:56:13
And if you guessed correctly on this, then I think you should be Pope or something
1:56:19
Who, with a contractual obligation to offer the role of John McClane
1:56:25
they turned it down for reasons that when you know the answer will become obvious. They were alive, but there was a contractual obligation
1:56:31
to offer the role of John McClane in Die Hard to this actor before they could offer it to anybody else
1:56:39
And when you find out who it is, you will never forget. It's one of those little nuggets of trivia
1:56:43
that are unforgettable. And the reason why I'm thinking about it is because someone awful called Glenn
1:56:51
a terrible person, is currently putting together a pub quiz for tonight
1:56:57
I don't know what pub it's at, and frankly, I don't want to. And they are putting together a mash-up of two people
1:57:06
I don't know if you've seen this round in a pub quiz. It's quite a fun round, and you have to identify both people in the mash-up
1:57:13
And obviously, Glenn, I'm giving away the answer to your quiz because Glenn has mashed my face with niggle farridges
1:57:26
And I'm not sure I'll ever be able to unsee that, Glenn. So thanks, mate
1:57:31
Thanks a lot. Nineteen minutes after twelve. Wayne is in Bridlington. Wayne, question or answer
1:57:38
Hi there, I've got a question. Carry on, Wayne. so when I ask people this in general
1:57:42
they look at me like I'm weird but it's always bothered me so what's the smallest living thing
1:57:48
inside our body now what I mean by that is we have like for example
1:57:52
bacteria now does that bacteria have things living inside of that and if it has
1:57:58
do those things have things living inside of that and how small does it go
1:58:02
when does it stop I mean I can answer some of your questions
1:58:10
No. Yeah. Would be the answer to one of them. It doesn't..
1:58:14
They're not like Matryoshka dolls. They're not like those Russian dolls. And the smallest thing will be a monocellular organism
1:58:22
So it will be an amoeba. Yeah. That will be it. Because it's just one cell
1:58:28
So you can't get smaller than a single cell. So song that. You can't get smaller..
1:58:32
Oh, no, that's the quick fit, Advin. You can't get smaller than a single cell. so the answer is amoeba
1:58:38
do those things have smaller things inside of them no, because it's only one cell
1:58:44
so every living thing consists of cells so if you get down
1:58:49
to some living thing that consists of a single cell it can't have another living thing
1:58:55
inside it do you get it? not really but I'll take your word for it
1:59:02
I feel I've let you down if you don't Let me try again. So you are made of cells, right, Wayne
1:59:08
Yeah, science was never my strong point. Biology was never my strong point at school
1:59:12
Yeah, I mean, I kind of worked that out. How many cells do you think there are in the average human being
1:59:18
No idea. No, nor have I, so I'm going to check. There are about 36 trillion cells, Wayne, give or take
1:59:25
in the average human being. So you consist of 36 trillion cells
1:59:30
Yeah. An amoeba consists of one cell. Right, okay. One cell. Every living thing consists of cells
1:59:39
Yeah. So, for example, in a dog, there are approximately... Tens of..
1:59:49
Well, lots of cells. I give up now. I'm not going to keep looking at it. So, if it's only got one cell, there can't be anything smaller than it
1:59:55
because it would not be made of cells. Right, okay. It's a silly question again
2:00:01
So is a cell class as a living thing? An amoeba is, yes
2:00:05
An amoeba? An amoeba is a unicellular organism, and an organism is, I think, a synonym for a living
2:00:12
Between you and me, Wayne, I was crud at biology as well, so I could be..
2:00:15
So do amoebas have amoebas inside them? No, they can't have amoebas inside them because..
2:00:21
Are you teasing me now, Wayne? No, no, I'm not saying really daft
2:00:25
It can't have something inside it that's smaller than it. Right. Because it's only one cell
2:00:32
Right, okay. Okay? Okay. Yeah, yeah, excellent. All right. You're going to carry on asking people about this, aren't you
2:00:41
I'm going to have to... I know you are. I don't know why I bother. Yeah, maybe, yes
2:00:46
To get on a large language. Go on, Keith. I'll take a round of applause until someone tells me why I'm wrong
2:00:52
36 trillion cells in a human, Keith. Did you know that? Live and learn, don't you, eh
2:00:58
Charlotte's in Crystal Palace. Charlotte, question or answer? Question, James. Carry on, Charlotte
2:01:02
And it is, what's happened to Shire horses? I don't know, mate
2:01:06
What has happened to Shire horses? I don't know. Well, they used to deliver beer, didn't they, in London. We used to see them around
2:01:11
And now where have they gone? Is it a full moon? This is one of those mystery areas that I think might..
2:01:16
What do you mean, what's happened to Shire horses? Just because they don't deliver... They're just not..
2:01:20
They haven't got a job anymore. What are they doing? Where are they? They're in museums. No, come on now
2:01:24
We need to know where they are. There's a shot. I think they've got Shire horses at the Black Country Museum in Dudley
2:01:30
I want to know. I want to know if there are any wandering. There's some in Beaudley. I've seen some Shire horses in Beaudley
2:01:35
They'll be on farms. Are they working? No, not really. No, because why would you get a horse to do something
2:01:40
that a blooming great tractor can do? Well, I'm just worried about them
2:01:43
I need to know properly what's happened to Shire horses, please. You can't answer this question
2:01:48
It's like saying, where does all the rain go? We can take a call from someone who can say
2:01:54
I've got a Shire horse, but it doesn't answer your question, does it
2:01:58
Yes, sort of. So you just want us to find... So your question is, Charlotte
2:02:03
can you find a Shire horse, James? I want to know how many there are
2:02:07
and whether they're happily employed. No, no, no. But no one's going to be able to answer that question
2:02:11
except perhaps the Shire Horse Association. They're not in education, employment, or training, these Shire horses
2:02:17
Oh, exactly. Yeah. We need a project. So, I mean, you know where they've..
2:02:21
I don't know where they've gone. It's sad. I need to know. All right
2:02:25
I mean, I'll ask. Go on, stick it on the board for me. Well, I'm going to stick it on the board for you
2:02:29
but I'm not impressed, frankly. Where have all the Shire horses gone
2:02:34
0345 6060 973. I don't know what's worse, the question about the amoeba
2:02:40
or the question about the Shire horses. How many cells are there in a Shire horse, Keith
2:02:44
I'd estimate about 50 trillion, I reckon. Yeah. Where does all the water go
2:02:51
What's happened to Mystery Hour today? Where does all the water go
2:02:56
Where is all the water when there's a drought. I think I might have answered that correctly, actually, albeit that it has
2:03:01
a slightly tragic context in the current climate. Why do whispers taste different from
2:03:07
twirls, and why do chefs wear Czech trousers? If you can answer any of those, please
2:03:11
do. 0345 6060 973. Ian's in Harlow. Ian, question or answer? Question, please
2:03:17
James. Carry on. Brain freeze. Oh, yes. What's that all about? So, you know
2:03:23
you've got a nice frappe, ice-cold frappe, you take a big and suddenly you get this excruciating pain in front of your head
2:03:32
And you go, ooh, I won't do that again. So, what's... I don't think the brain is freezing, but something's happening
2:03:40
Is it... Is it osmosis? How long since we did that? Do you know what that's about, Ian
2:03:47
Have you got any idea what just happened? No. No? Do you know what? It didn't part the Red Sea
2:03:51
This is the problem with having a growing audience. When we started playing out that little bit of thing
2:03:58
every time I said the word osmosis, we had about half a million listeners
2:04:05
Now we've got one and a half million listeners. So there could conceivably be a million people listening to this
2:04:09
who've got no idea why that thing that happens happens every time I say the word osmosis
2:04:18
And I've forgotten, actually. You're so pleased I called, aren't you? I've forgotten why we..
2:04:22
Oh, no, I haven't. It's because this actually probably involves me apologizing to Wayne, actually, Ian
2:04:28
for being a little bit impatient, perhaps, when I was explaining, although some people feel I was very patient
2:04:33
explaining to him about unicellular organisms. I used to use that word that you just heard me say three times
2:04:40
as an answer to almost every science question. And that is why we started treating it with the derision
2:04:47
that, frankly, my scientific attempts deserve. So a brain freeze, I don't think, does have anything to do with osmosis
2:04:54
Because it's all right. Honestly, don't forget that we're in London at the moment, Keith
2:05:00
He hasn't got that one ready to see. Yeah, all right. So it's a good question because everybody knows what it's like
2:05:08
Nobody enjoys it. And yet we all still occasionally fall foul of it despite knowing better
2:05:14
It's on the board. Thank you, Ian. Max is in Camden. Max, question or answer
2:05:18
hi there i'd love to speak to you um yes my question is this why on earth do we cry like
2:05:26
what purpose does it serve but to have water running down your face when you're upset i know
2:05:33
elephants cry right it's about as soon as that when they're freed apparently that they shed a tear
2:05:39
Really? Yeah. All of them? Well, not all. No, but I mean, you know, I've heard that and it just breaks your heart
2:05:49
But why do humans cry? What's the purpose? Maybe you've had this before
2:05:56
I probably have. We've had it all before, but I've forgotten. Or I never knew in the first place
2:06:03
I mean, I mean... Could it be osmosis? No, don't do that, because Keith will get..
2:06:09
You'll get an itchy finger. You'll get an itchy finger again. I mean, partly it clears your eyes, doesn't it
2:06:16
But that's not the sadness. That's not the sadness element. The sadness element
2:06:20
What's the evolutionary purpose for crying? Signalling to other people that you're very sad
2:06:26
Why? I mean, but you could just tell them, couldn't you? I'm really sad
2:06:30
Yeah, I don't know. It's a nice question. Maybe it releases hormones in you or something
2:06:36
It should be. I mean, almost all things will have an evolutionary..
2:06:40
Yeah, exactly. ...rational, an evolutionary purpose. Yeah, all right, you're on. Why do we cry
2:06:46
In evolutionary terms. I like that question, Max. Do you know, while you're here, Max
2:06:52
who was contractually obligated to be offered the part of John McClane in Die Hard
2:06:58
before they could offer it to anybody else, including the man who ultimately got the role, Bruce Willis
2:07:02
Do you know who it was? I'm dying to find out. I don't know. Frank Sinatra
2:07:07
Wow! How good is that for film trivia? He would have been terrible! Not wrong, he would
2:07:13
have been terrible, but the reason, if I've understood it correctly, was that he did appear
2:07:18
in a film decades previously that was based on the book written by the bloke that wrote
2:07:23
the book that Die Hard was based on and part of the contract for that meant that if they ever filmed any of the other books Frank Sinatra would get first refusal on the part I think he was in his 70s or 80s by the time they got around to filming Die Hard
2:07:36
so you're right, it would have been a very different film. Well, thank God he didn't
2:07:40
Thank God he had the wherewithal to turn it down. It is half past 12, and Matt Hewitt is here with your headlines
2:07:46
James O'Brien on LBC. It's half to 12 is the time. Gary in Manchester says
2:07:51
did you subconsciously impersonate David Bowie when you uttered the word hole in an answer to that whisper question
2:07:56
Nothing subconscious about it, mate. I'm like Pavlov's dogs. You say holes, I hear that song
2:08:01
the Andy Warhol track off Hunky Dory. Probably my favourite David Bowie album
2:08:05
Holes. Andy Warhol. Holes. I'm all right, don't worry. I'm just answering Gary's question
2:08:12
Should we get back to the phones before I embarrass myself further
2:08:17
Okay. Alistair is in Selby. Alistair, question or answer? It's an answer, James
2:08:22
Carry on. Shire Horses. Yes, where are they, mate? Have you got them
2:08:26
They are in... I haven't got them. No, they are in Tadcaster, still delivering beer
2:08:32
For Sam Smith? Yes. I think there's some in Hook Norton as well
2:08:36
at the brewery there, the Hook Norton Brewery down in Worcestershire. They kind of have a heritage role
2:08:41
so they're still working on the... Are they Drays? Are they called Drays, the carriages that Shire Horses call
2:08:46
Yeah, so basically they're stable behind one of the pubs and they work five days a week
2:08:52
and they deliver the beer to all the Sam Smith's pubs. They're a fascinating thing, aren't they, the Sam Smith's pubs
2:09:01
Yeah, he died recently, the owner, and I believe it's his family that are running it now
2:09:06
so there's a few more that are opening up and stuff now, because quite a lot were closed
2:09:11
I mean, they are a one-off, really, in the context of... Was it Humphrey Smith? Was that his name
2:09:16
Yes, Humphrey, yeah. He was almost like a sort of Victorian eccentric, wasn't he
2:09:20
He had all these rules in his pub because it was an empire that he owned
2:09:24
He could do whatever he wanted, so they banned phones long before anybody thought banning phones in pubs
2:09:29
would be a good idea. And the most amazing thing is every single thing for sale in a Sam Smith pub
2:09:34
is own brand. Yeah. Even the lemonade. They exported a lot to America, weirdly
2:09:40
Their beer's delicious. Massive, yeah, massive. But if I want a Coke, I want a Pepsi or a Coke
2:09:44
I don't want Sam Smith's Cola, do I? but every single thing in there was um was was was own brand still is there's one near me there's a
2:09:54
lovely pub on the river it's just just beyond brentford on the way to richmond that's the sam
2:09:58
smith anyway i digress i'm showing my enthusiasm for pubs in general what are your qualifications
2:10:04
uh i've been tagcaster and saw them with my eyes well there you go so i mean i don't know whether
2:10:10
that's going to satisfy charlotte frankly she seemed like trouble but we found at least some
2:10:14
of the Shire Horses, and there are others at other breweries as well, and probably some
2:10:18
at some old working museums and things like that, and obviously a lot
2:10:22
fewer than there used to be. A lot fewer than there used to be. Round of applause for Alistair
2:10:26
who has seen a Shire Horse. Cheshire Cheese is a Sam Smith's pub, isn't it? On Fleet Street
2:10:32
It's one of my all-time favourite pubs. I haven't been there for years. Ben's in Epsom. Ben, question or answer
2:10:39
It's a question. Carry on. It's about senses. Yeah. So, So it's about if you try and picture someone that you know
2:10:49
you can picture them like as if they were sitting in front of you
2:10:53
Yeah. Yeah. And if you were to sort of try and imagine a sound that you knew
2:10:58
like the sound of somebody speaking that you knew well or singing or a song
2:11:03
you could kind of hear that in your head. Yeah. But you can't do that with smells
2:11:08
You can only, you recognize smells when you smell them. So if you walk into a restaurant or you're cooking something
2:11:14
you can recognize those smells. But you can't kind of... Picture's the wrong word, but you can't... Generate
2:11:23
Yeah. And I think the same is... I think that's true also for touch, maybe
2:11:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I think I know this. Okay. It's molecular, isn't it
2:11:37
Is it? Yeah. There's no molecules in a memory. there's no molecules in a mental image
2:11:43
but there's molecules in a smell. So unless you've got the right molecules there, you're not going to be able to recall the smell
2:11:49
You're not going to be able to regenerate the smell. The same with touch. Unless there's something to touch
2:11:54
You touch things in your dreams, and you smell things in your dreams, I suppose. So you can send the message to your brain
2:11:58
that the molecules are there. But when you're conscious, if the molecules aren't there
2:12:02
you're never going to be able to generate a smell. Yeah, maybe
2:12:08
It works, is an answer. I mean, because it's... Also, it sounds clever
2:12:12
because you can just say, oh, it's molecular. Yeah. It must be that, mustn't it
2:12:17
Why can't you remember smell? Well, recall is the word we're looking for. Why can't you recall a smell
2:12:22
The answer is because you can't conjure up a smell, because it's molecular
2:12:27
Yeah, recall is definitely the word. I was thinking that perhaps it was more to do
2:12:31
with a particular part of the brain. I wouldn't have thought so
2:12:36
I wouldn't have thought so, because you can smell things in your dreams, or at least you think you can smell things in your dreams
2:12:42
which means that that part of the brain... I don't think you do smell things in your dreams. Oh, you do. You do. Don't you
2:12:47
No. No, no, I don't think so. Hang on. Keith, do you smell things in your dreams? No
2:12:52
I think you see people in your dreams and you probably... I think you smell things in your dreams
2:12:56
You'd notice if you didn't smell anything in your dreams because you've got a full gamut of all the senses
2:13:02
Eleanor had a dream about me the other day. She's spilt loads of coffee on me. I don't know what that means
2:13:06
Perhaps a Jungian psychologist can ring in and tell us. Could you smell... Was it my enormous mug
2:13:11
Full of coffee. Good Lord. I must have been drenched. It's a miracle I survived
2:13:15
Could you smell coffee, Eleanor, in that dream? Yeah, we think she could, mate
2:13:21
Yeah, you can. Oh, dear. It must be me, then. Yeah, it must just be you. All right
2:13:27
I mean, I'll leave it on the board. Why can't we recall smells? But I think I've answered it
2:13:32
I'm just not greedy, so I'm not going to give myself another round of applause on this one
2:13:36
I like it, man. Carry on. 12.38 is the time. You know it's a vintage mystery hour, writes Phil
2:13:41
when one of the qualifications is, I've seen a horse. Please never change, mate. Phil, I'll do my best, but thank you
2:13:49
And you're right. Kevin's in Cheltenham. Kevin, question or answer? Hi, James
2:13:54
Hi, Kevin. My question to me is, can a man swim so fast through the water
2:13:59
that he can breach like a dolphin or a whale? Well, what's butterfly
2:14:08
What's the butterfly stroke, then? Well, it would have to be the fastest stroke
2:14:13
in order to launch out of the water, I think. But butterfly launches out of the water, doesn't it
2:14:18
I mean, a butterfly is breaching. It goes up and... I think technically a full breach is the entire body
2:14:25
like a whale or a dolphin. So can a human being swim so fast
2:14:30
that if they head towards the surface, they would fly out of the water
2:14:35
And possibly jump onto the side of it. That would be cool, wouldn't it
2:14:38
I tell you what, if you pulled that off at Brentford Baths, they'd be talking about it for years to come
2:14:43
I'd love it. Um, no. I think I agree with you, but I would like to know if it's..
2:14:52
But it's like time travel, isn't it? If it was possible we know about it I would say that boundaries of us Your phone line gone Your phone line gone That annoying
2:15:05
I was enjoying that conversation. I mean, you could have... I'm trying to think about when you come up from the very bottom of a deep pool
2:15:12
and you gather... You're never going to be going fast enough. You're never going to be able to generate enough speed
2:15:17
Otherwise, all the, like, the Royal Marines would do it, wouldn't they
2:15:21
and they'd be landing like Aquaman on the beach and shooting people. No, mate
2:15:26
No, I'm taking a round of applause. It's not often I give myself a round of applause for a straight no
2:15:30
but no. Thank you, Keith. Ian's in Bonnie Rig. Ian, question or answer
2:15:36
That's an answer, James. Carry on, Ian. So, in regards to the brain freeze question
2:15:41
Excellent. A number of years ago, I had my back, when I was at work, had a back injury
2:15:46
and I had to get a couple of back operations. Oh, yeah. So I had, you know, you always get these visits with a neurosurgeon or an anesthetist
2:15:55
before you get the back up to make sure you're fit enough for it or whatnot. Yeah
2:15:59
So I was asked, I actually had the two of them present, and I was asked, do you have any questions for us
2:16:05
I've always been told, always ask a question. Right. I didn't have any questions to ask him, so I thought I'd just be cheeky
2:16:10
and ask the question, but brain freeze, because he's a neurosurgeon. Who told you to always ask
2:16:16
Who told you? I've got a strange look. One of my parents told me that. Okay, always ask a question
2:16:21
Someone says if you've got any questions, always make sure you've got one. It's just rude
2:16:25
It's rude otherwise. I like your parents. Go on. So the question I asked was
2:16:30
what cause is brain freeze? Because I always thought it was something to do with nerves. And it has
2:16:35
Apparently, the sudden coldness in the back of your palate, apparently, this is just from memory
2:16:40
so I might be wrong. Go on. Or a bit mistaken. It's got something to do with the sudden coldness
2:16:46
on your palate sends signals through your nervous system to the front of your brain
2:16:50
which causes what they call referred pain and that's what I was experiencing at the time as well
2:16:54
with back injury, I was feeling pain down my leg and onto my foot, it's called referred pain
2:16:57
so that accounts for the pain in the forehead and also it causes the blood vessels
2:17:04
to constrict which causes the sort of numbness if you like, in your head
2:17:09
it's just as simple as that makes sense qualifications? I know you told it, but tell us again
2:17:14
I have no qualifications apart from being a back injury victim. Is it all right now
2:17:19
Is the surgeon good? Yeah, I'm fine. So we can trust the surgeon on the brain freeze question because they sorted your back out, you see
2:17:23
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, you're on. Have a round of applause. Thank you. Thank you
2:17:29
Why do chefs wear Czech trousers? Why does a whisper taste different from a twirl
2:17:34
Where is, I think, where is all the water when we're in a drought? Where is all the water
2:17:40
We've done that one. We've done that one. we've done that one
2:17:44
why do we cry? what's the evolutionary explanation for crying? why can't we recall smells
2:17:52
and I've done that one as well synchronised swimmers don't breach your feet come out of the water
2:17:58
you're swimming so fast that the whole body comes out of the water
2:18:02
it's not possible if it was possible Thorpedo would have done it
2:18:06
wouldn't he? Ian Thorpe would have done it you know the fastest swimmer ever would have done it
2:18:10
and he didn't and he hasn't, therefore it's not possible. 12.43 is the time
2:18:16
I need answers to those questions. I'm not here for my own amusement, you know. Give me a ring now
2:18:21
0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3 if you can do the chef's trousers, the whispers, the water
2:18:26
the smells and the crying. Davy's in Edinburgh. Davy, question or answer
2:18:32
It's a question, James. Carry on. I got called through to my neighbour's house last night
2:18:37
Oh, yes. And behind a fridge, there's little pops and flashes of light
2:18:42
and pulled the fridge out and there's a heavy electrical cable running through there
2:18:46
supplying the cooker. Right. And it's been chewed through. Oh dear. Why
2:18:53
Why do mice, why are they attracted to PVC of electrical cables
2:18:59
I might know the answer to this one. Oh good. And it's only because I used to
2:19:06
I know a bit about squirrels. and rats. And if they didn't..
2:19:15
And I don't know if it applies to mice, but I'm thinking they're in the same kind of ballpark
2:19:19
Before I start speculating, I just want to clarify, you were called around because you're the local bloke
2:19:26
I'm the helpful neighbour. The helpful neighbour, yeah. I just wanted to clarify that
2:19:31
So if a rat did not gnaw stuff, right? Yeah. then its teeth would be about a foot long
2:19:43
They would never stop growing. They're not like human teeth. So they have to gnaw all the time
2:19:50
in order to keep their teeth short. And I imagine that mice are the same
2:19:55
so that when they encounter something that has a nice sort of texture to it
2:20:00
they'll have a little old gnaw to keep the teeth small and obviously not realise that in so doing
2:20:06
they are endangering an entire street in Edinburgh? Potentially. They're not better things to gnaw than..
2:20:16
Yeah, but they don't only gnaw wires. But what you need to remember, mate
2:20:21
is that mice have got very small mouths. OK. So there has to be something small enough
2:20:30
for them to get their little micey mouth around. and that is where your
2:20:36
electrical wire comes in. It's good, but it's not definitive
2:20:48
There must be something in PVC that they like. It could be soy, could it? Soy or something
2:20:54
Soy electric. Yeah. Right, you're on. Okay, why do mice nor wires
2:20:59
03-45-606-0973 is the number that you need. The time is 12.46. The story I wanted to share with you
2:21:05
it's made me laugh so much. I don't know if you saw Kemi Badenot claiming..
2:21:10
You know I love Kemi Badenot, right? She is just the best ever. If I had one scintilla of her self-belief
2:21:17
I would be Pope by Christmas. So she's been telling everyone that Georgia Maloney told her
2:21:22
that she should not have any coalitions with Nigel Farage and should be her own woman and stand her ground. um
2:21:30
Kemi Badernauk being Kemi Badernauk you can probably guess what's happened now but
2:21:36
I'm not going to tell you until after the next break so just so
2:21:40
if Kemi I never have gaffs Badernauk says oh I had a lovely meeting
2:21:45
with Georgia Maloney and she said to me you've got to stand your ground and be your own woman and don't have any coalitions
2:21:49
with Nigel Farage what is almost certain to happen next because Kemi Badernauk
2:21:54
never has gaffs I'll tell you after this James O'Brien on LBC
2:21:58
is the time and the answer inevitably to what happened next after kemi i never have gaffes
2:22:06
claimed that georgia maloney the italian prime minister had told her not to ever have any
2:22:11
coalitions with anybody else including nigel farage um georgia maloney's people denied that
2:22:17
it ever happened georgia maloney's allies have denied claims that she told kemi bade her not not
2:22:22
to make an electoral pact good job she never has gaffes because if she ever had a gaffe that would It be so embarrassing wouldn it Wayne is in Basildon Wayne good afternoon Hello sir How are you Very well indeed Question or answer It an answer
2:22:35
Oh. To the... Where's all the water gone? Yeah, can I just read something from our WhatsApp group
2:22:41
Okay. For the benefit of people who aren't in it. There's two things
2:22:47
The first is, Scott wrote, I vote for Dickie Hart to do your holiday cover
2:22:51
which I thought was quite amusing. That's going back to the ventriloquist that we had on in the last hour
2:22:55
one of whose puppets is called Dickie Hart, which I missed. It's a pun that I missed at the time
2:23:00
But then he wrote, Wayne, with four A's and six Y's and seven N's
2:23:03
He was like, Wayne! And I had no idea what he was talking about. So I wrote, what
2:23:08
And Scott replied, the bloke asking all the water is, surely this is Wayne's moment
2:23:13
He's been wanging on about it all week. And here you are, as if by magic
2:23:18
There you go. It's a very simple answer. It is the water cycle, and I did mention this a couple of weeks ago
2:23:26
You did. All of the water that we are evaporating here will eventually cool down and then descend into rain
2:23:36
And now we're looking at the floods we're getting in Nepal. Yes. The water you're getting from Nepal is probably from the Hanningfield Reservoir by me
2:23:44
It's gone up into the sky, it's travelled all the way around the world, and it's fallen back to earth in a different climate
2:23:49
Yeah, it's just... The fact of the matter is we're looking at it in a very sort of local
2:23:54
sort of kind of xenophobic way. It brings xenophobia into everything, you snowflake, honestly
2:24:01
Who's nicking our water? Yeah, it's nicking our water. So that is the answer to Guy's question
2:24:06
is that the water just goes, I don't want to say on holiday
2:24:10
but it just goes to other parts of the world that haven't got a drought. In fact, some of them have got the opposite of droughts
2:24:14
If you look at sort of like hemispherical sort of weather traits
2:24:18
If it snows in New York, normally two weeks later, we get it
2:24:23
So it works that way around, yeah. Qualifications? A domestic energy assessor and how to learn about exposure zones in the UK
2:24:31
in order to ascertain whether a house is worthy of having... That's just your side hustle these days
2:24:39
Yeah, you know it is. That's not your main job anymore, is it? I'm milking
2:24:43
I know. So I was in Hornchurch with Wayne a couple of weeks ago, which is where his round is
2:24:48
And I don't know if you've got any friends who are milkmen, or indeed milkwomen, but Wayne can point at a house and tell you what their delivery is
2:24:55
So we were walking to the football in Hornchurch, and he would point at a house, and he'd go, two pints of oat milk
2:24:59
And then we'd go past another house, and he'd say, pint of gold top every other Thursday
2:25:04
And it occurred to me on the way home, you could have been completely making that up. Mate, why would I lie about something like that
2:25:11
That's a very good question. Have a round of applause. Cheers. I'll see you tomorrow, actually
2:25:16
I'll see you later. You're all right. 12.53 is the time. Craig is in Edinburgh. Craig, question or answer
2:25:21
It's an answer, James. Carry on, Craig. It's the answer to whether we can basically smell things that aren't there
2:25:26
Oh, yes. It wasn't quite that, but I'm going to enjoy your answer anyway
2:25:31
But go on. The answer is that some people basically can conjure smells
2:25:35
and other people can't. Oh, really? Yeah, so it's basically... Synesthesia is probably linked to this a bit, is it
2:25:42
Because some people get smells in their senses when they see a certain colour
2:25:47
Well, it's funny you mention that because we've spoken before, I'm a whiskey maker
2:25:51
and one of my colleagues I'm meeting this afternoon has synesthesia, which made me really interested in this question
2:25:57
Yeah? So he's made a whiskey last year, and the tasting notes was a spectrum of colour
2:26:03
as opposed to words on a page, which was fascinating. And did it make sense to you
2:26:09
I've got a little bit of synesthesia. I can smell purple and green, for example
2:26:14
but not to the same extent as he has where you can put an entire, you know, whiskey
2:26:21
Just into colours. Sheila's got synesthesia as well. Sheila Fogarty. Yeah. I don't know what hers is
2:26:30
I don't know whether it's smell-related or something else. And at Lush, the wonderful company that does all of the cosmetics
2:26:36
they do synesthesia massages now at Lush at the bigger branches. so you know the smells will be very much
2:26:43
part of the whole process, the whole sensory experience, I love that but it doesn't answer the question of why
2:26:49
we can't, can your friend remember a smell? Yeah, but it's actually something that
2:26:55
in my own career I've done with other whisky makers as well where we've sat somewhere
2:26:59
and we've come up with an aroma and a flavour, like we've experienced something
2:27:03
and we've thought, you know what, I'd love to be able to recreate that in the lab but to do that you have to basically remember
2:27:09
what it is you're working for. But it's molecular. You can't remember a smell
2:27:12
in the way that you can remember an image. In terms of actually smelling something
2:27:17
when it's there, it's molecular. But the reason that I know that some people can and some people can't is it was
2:27:22
Derren Brown did a live TV show a few years back where he made people at home smell
2:27:29
peppermint. Some people could and some people couldn't. So it's a capacity, it's a brain thing
2:27:33
Some of us have got it. It's a bit like the taste of coriander. Yes
2:27:37
Qualifications, I know you've told us, but tell us again Yeah, so basically
2:27:41
I'm a whisky maker, but I saw the answer to this question on a Derren Brown special a few years back
2:27:46
I love it, how many, I mean, when you say a whisky maker, and you mention your friend
2:27:49
making a new blend I mean, how many in the average year
2:27:55
how many new whiskies are you bringing to market? For me personally, the company I work for
2:28:01
just now, we're probably bringing well, we're bringing at least 20 to 30
2:28:06
but for the ones I'm actually blending, it's maybe two a year. Yeah, okay
2:28:11
Whereas for this guy I'm going to speak to, he works for a big brand, so he's probably doing maybe seven or eight expressions a year
2:28:16
That's amazing, isn't it? Nice work. Do you take your work home with you? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
2:28:21
The company I work for is based in Australia, so I work from home. So the home bar's not too bad, James
2:28:25
I can imagine, I can imagine. Round of applause for Craig, please. Ian is in Kingsland
2:28:31
Ian, question or answer? I have an answer, James. Carry on, Ian. Mouse. Mouse teeth
2:28:36
The reason they chew is because their front canine teeth are always growing
2:28:41
so they chew on objects to keep the teeth ground down so they can eat properly
2:28:45
So he owes me an apology then, the fellow who asked that question
2:28:50
When I came home, the radio was on. I heard the question. I thought, I've got to answer this
2:28:55
Yeah, but I'd already answered it 100% correctly. Well, in that case..
2:28:59
No, no, no, you get the round of applause because I'm afraid the person who asked the question
2:29:03
and I don't think I've written his name down, which was a mistake. Do we remember? Davey, was it
2:29:07
David in Edinburgh? Davey in Edinburgh, who was just, frankly, dismissive of my answer, mate
2:29:11
even though it was, as you have proved, 100%. No, it's totally accurate. Rats do the same thing
2:29:15
I said that! And squirrels. Yes, because they're rodents. Right, wait, no, wait
2:29:21
Rodents' front teeth grow. Thank you. And I'll tell you how good I am at this. I know your qualifications
2:29:25
before you tell me. Do what? You're a pest control expert. Technician
2:29:31
I wouldn't go expert. You're an expert. We're all experts here because that's who told me
2:29:36
That's how I knew the answer to that because my pest control mate told me. Round of applause for Ian
2:29:41
Thank you very much. Thank you. Hang on. Sheila's got a question here. Don't go yet
2:29:46
Can you ask him if he's married? Why? I want to marry a pest controller. Well, this is taking..
2:29:50
I'm afraid I'm taken. Oh, I'm devastated. I'm devastated. Nice part of the world, Kingsley
2:29:57
That's almost it. We can squeeze in one more. Pat's in good all, Macbeth. Question or answer? It's an answer and it's just a quick sort of add-on to what you said about the smallest organisms in the body, living organisms in the body
2:30:09
Oh yeah. So you've got bacteria which is a matter of, can be about a thousand times smaller than the single-celled organisms
2:30:16
And it counts as a living thing? It counts as a living thing because you can go even further than that and on the..
2:30:22
Oh no, so we're going to owe Wayne an apology. Do we owe Wayne an apology here? No, you do, because you can go on the periphery of that
2:30:29
of what we define as living as a virus, and they can be a hundredth the size of a bacteria
2:30:35
What's the smallest thing? A virus? A virus, but it's touch and go whether you could define that
2:30:42
as a truly living thing, because most of them can't be, well, all of them can't be
2:30:46
Can you have a bacteria on an amoeba? Yes, absolutely. Wayne, I'm sorry, mate. I'm sorry, I mocked you
2:30:54
I didn't mock you actually, I thought I had the patience of a saint Qualifications Pat
2:30:59
Long time ago degree in biochemistry and pharmacology Round of applause Favourite I going to send it to wayne actually up in bridlington because i was a bit dismissive of his question it turned out it was much clearer i said at the time i bet this is a cleverer question
2:31:13
than it sounds so if wayne in bridlington wants it it is his someone sent me a message sheila
2:31:19
from david said you are a squirrel on news night and i looked at it for about 10 minutes about you
2:31:25
or a minute yeah no me you are a squirrel on news night and i thought what's wrong with this person
2:31:29
and I remembered I ate a squirrel. It's a typo. Oh, you ate? I ate a squirrel on Newsnight
2:31:34
You ate a squirrel? I ate a squirrel on Newsnight. It's on YouTube. Was it cooked? Yeah, of course it was cooked
2:31:37
I wouldn't eat a raw squirrel. Just checking. I was with George Monbiot. If you missed any of today's show
2:31:42
you can listen back on our free Global Player app or the LBC app, where you can also stay up to date
2:31:45
with all the latest news videos and opinions. You can listen to a range of podcasts, including James O'Brien Daily
2:31:49
best bits of this show every day, and you can download the official LBC app
2:31:53
It's free and it's in your app store now. Coming up at four on LBC, Simon is in for Tom Swarbrick once again
2:31:58
and Sheila Fogarty is as you have gathered here now. Sorry, I interrupted a bit too early this time, didn't I
2:32:03
It's nice when you do that. Oh, good, I'm glad. I'm glad. Thanks very much, James

How will AI change human existence? | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

Global - LBC

What's the point of school? | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

'The dishonesty, deception and embellishment baked in with Farage' | James O’Brien - The Whole Show

‘This is going to change everything’ | James O’Brien

What happens when Trump and Netanyahu are no longer on the same team? | James O'Brien

More drilling during another heatwave would feel mad | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

'Nigel Farage is scared of being mocked' | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

Can America return to being a force for good? | Lewis Goodall on LBC

I want Andy Burnham to fix the British high street | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

Why would you watch a "joy ride" video?| James O'Brien - The Whole Show

Do you want ice lollies, or imminent planetary doom| James O’Brien - The Whole Show

The PM took questions and actually answered them| James O'Brien - The Whole Show

What should Harry and Meghan do when they come back? | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

Are zero-hours contracts as evil as they appear? | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

Ricky Gervais on the 'myth' of cancel culture

Should Andy Burnham sanction Israel? | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

Up next in 10

How will AI change human existence? | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

Global - LBC