I think Andy Burnham stole my material | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

It is three minutes after ten and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC

A very good morning to you. An interesting morning, isn't it? I don't know about you, and I fully appreciate that not everybody would have been either able or willing or keen to listen to the entirety of Andy Burnham's conference speech yesterday

But I shall share with you some of the sort of key moments in the course of this morning, probably sooner rather than later

It was, I think, by most accounts, the most remarkable conference speech of most of our lifetimes in the sense of going to places that party leaders either can't or haven't gone to before, saying things that are, well, kind of understood by people in the corridors of power, but never articulated or very rarely articulated or couched in the kind of preventative

Barrication and pontification that sometimes perhaps typifies the openings of the time that we spend together, but which generally involve avoiding obvious truths because people are too frightened of the consequences of saying them, whether the consequences are electoral or simply a monstering from the media

I mean, which three would you pick? Electoral reform, oddly, would historically be one of the things that leaders would be too frightened to say

You'll never lead alone again is the general response to trying to make our democracy more democratic

Rejoining, returning to Europe. I don't even know what word to use to describe people still clinging to the carcass of the idea that that is not a necessary and inevitable step

And promising a reduction in spending for the elderly. And that's the greatest one of all, isn't it

You can't do that. They're the ones that vote. You can't do that. They're the demographic that decides who is going to govern

But you can't. And so much ignorance. We touched on it yesterday. Dare I say we heard already some more of it this morning

So much ignorance. How many people do you think who are waxing and waning and gnashing their teeth and clutching their pearls about a change to the triple lock pension system that will just make it fairer from the point of view of the entire population

by ensuring that pensions continue to rise in a way that is commensurate

with how the rest of the country is experiencing the economy. But how many people do you think who have thrown their toys out of their pram this morning

and, of course, being encouraged to do so by all of the usual suspects

I may run through the front pages in a moment. Burnham's triple shock, the most left-wing speech by a PM since the 1970s, Daily Mail

It's a crying shame for our nation. And I don't know that any of them are reminding their readers it's only been in place for 16 years, this policy

And I don't know if you've heard anybody completely misunderstanding this morning the role that inflation and earnings will play in the new triple lock

But it's been suspended before under a conservative government. It's been suspended when inflation was so high that it would have delivered utterly unreachable rises to pensioners

and there already is the problem and Andy Burnham recognizes this problem

I'm probably going to go all in today I've got to tell you you will have sensed when Keir Starmer became Prime Minister

that I desperately wanted him to be the thing that the country needed

but I never quite fully, completely believed it and I kept saying to him

I'm just waiting for him to find that new gear I know he's got it and I didn't know he had it

I just wanted him to discover it he never did and I think we can say now

he was never going to Andy Burnham in that speech yesterday did the opposite of what Keir Starmer did in his early weeks of government

Starmer dashed our hopes in many ways that we were really going to see significant and meaningful change

or at least an attempt at significant and meaningful change. Andy Burnham yesterday confirmed he's up for it

He might not succeed, but he will go down fighting for a better Britain, for a healthier, wealthier and kinder country

So if you hear anybody pretending not to understand the relationship between politics and hope

because, of course, there has never been a prime minister whose job was not to engender hope in the electorate

it's insane to pretend that you don't understand that. Margaret Thatcher sold hope to the electorate

John Major sold hope to the electorate. Tony Blair sold hope to the electorate

Andy Burnham's not doing anything new. He's just reflecting the hopelessness that so many people feel in this country at the moment

it's neither new nor revolutionary, but it's rather wonderful to hear. And he nailed it

He recognised the things that politicians in this country have either been too frightened or too

I think in Liz Truss's case, too stupid to acknowledge. And they were supposed to be things

that you're not supposed to say. Most obviously, returning to Europe, electoral reform

and reducing spending for the elderly. thank you to everybody who noticed that he nicked a line from me

that's incredibly flattering actually in the past if a politician nicks a line from a radio presenter

it isn't necessarily flattering but on this occasion I was delighted to hear him use the monopoly metaphor that I've been hitting you over the head with

for the last month or so and the way in which you can use it to express the fundamental madness of

you know building putting hotels and houses as it were on our utility companies

Even on the Monopoly board, transport and utilities are exempt from the worst excesses of reckless profiteering

They are exempt from some of the worst impacts of the free market or market economics

And our country is not. And Andy Burnham wants to return it to a place when it was

And the thing that intrigued me was the – because I'm weird, and this is what I think of second or third when I wake up in the morning

how are the usual suspects going to deal with this? How are the people that told you Brexit was going to make us richer

Boris Johnson was going to keep us safe, Liz Truss was an economic genius

Donald Trump would prove to be a reliable and loyal ally to the United Kingdom

climate change was made up and there was nothing to worry about. How are all the people, because, forgive me for reminding you of this every single day

they dominate public discourse in this country, They dominate newspaper editorials and an awful lot of people who broadcast for a living take their lines from the newspapers

And those are the five things. Those are the five big victories of the people who today have charged themselves with finding negative things to say about Andy Burnett

The people who had nothing negative to say about Brexit, nothing negative to say about Boris Johnson, nothing negative to say about Liz Truss, nothing negative to say about Donald Trump

Indeed, they would describe the people who were clear eyed about Donald Trump, the reality of Donald Trump as suffering from some sort of derangement syndrome and people who had only negative things to say about scientists describing the imminence of climate disaster

So what's the question that we want to answer together today? I think I mean in the in the first instance and perhaps most obviously it would just be straight reactions but any reaction any conversation about reactions to this speech is going to be leavened by the context in which it is conducted

I might run you through a little later how ridiculous Kemi Baden-Ock

has already made herself appear by gunning for the triple lock review

when she and most of her key allies and senior politicians have acknowledged both privately and publicly

that something must be done about it. And now that somebody's doing something about it, the politics that Andy Burnham was describing yesterday, the politics of meaningless division, kicks in immediately

Richard Tice was on with Nick earlier. Just, I mean, God knows why

I don't think the man's ever strung together a sentient sentence in his life. He just sort of speaks in Twitter-flavored soundbites and makes even less sense, I think, when he's talking than when he's sitting there blowing bubbles

But that's how it works. You know, the newspapers, the client journalists, the pretend politicians and what's left of the Tory party just say, well, we must attack

We must attack. We must attack. We don't want to be healthier, wealthier and kinder in this country

We want to carry on as we are. And that's a crucial point

That's a crucial point, because you see it perhaps with these often embellished, exaggerated stories about rich people leaving the country

And weirdly, the British public are encouraged to think that that's evidence of something bad

When, if you think about it, we have spent 50 years essentially operating under economic conditions that are designed to enrich the rich

This isn't communism or even socialism. Nothing wrong with being rich. Being rich is great, but there are degrees of richness

And if you look at the relationship, for example, between the lowest paid person in a company and the highest paid person in the company, or the amount of money a company makes that is reinvested into research and development, or in the case of water companies, fixing infrastructure, if you look at the relationship between those things, it's been completely broken over 50 years

And it's been broken by economics and ideologies that pretend to believe that when the tide rises, all boats rise, that when you make the riches or rather that the riches trickle down, that when you create your economy in a way that is designed to allow big businesses and individuals to make ever more enormous sums of money, then somehow we will all benefit

that's the sale that is the post 1979 economic model even Tony Blair didn't really

break from that tradition albeit that he used some of the money that made its way

into the treasury's coffers to help the people that needed help or the people that

deserved help or the people that wanted help as opposed to the people who just want to help

themselves and that you need to ask yourself you need to say

to yourself has it worked? That's it. This struck me halfway through the speech yesterday

Has it worked? So we've spent 50 years doing all the things they wanted us to do

Deregulating. Denationalizing. He hit these marks, didn't he? He made these points

That's the question you need to ask yourself to. That's the only thing you need to do. And in many ways, it's the only thing that was missing explicitly from the speech

Was the question. Has it worked? Deregulating. Denationalizing. Has it worked? Has it worked

They've had 50 years to prove to you that this would make the country a better place, that it would create more jobs, more wealth

All the things they told you would do all of those things, whether it's Brexit right through to Boris Johnson

Has it worked? Now, the weird thing about this is that the people who are going to be shouting the loudest today

about how awful, or the people being encouraged to shout the loudest today

about how awful Andy Burnham is, are the people who are the most convinced

that it hasn't worked. This is really important. I hope that doesn't sound pompous

But it underpins and explains so much of what Andy Burnham was talking about

when he described our divisive politics. You, perhaps, and I'll have a look at my inbox shortly

but you, perhaps, have already been persuaded that the triple lock is being abolished or broken

or that pensions are going to be means-tested. None of that is true. I'll explain later. Why do people want to persuade you of that

Answer because they're terrified or spooked by what Andy Burnham represents. What does Andy Burnham represent

First and foremost, a recognition that it hasn't worked. Deregulation and denationalization and putting all of the power in the hands of the people who have all of the money has not worked

and bizarrely, bizarrely and heartbreakingly, the people who will be most easily persuaded

that Andy Burnham is a menace are exactly the same people who are most convinced

that the country is in a hole. Isn't that incredible? The people trying to persuade you that Andy Burnham is a menace

are the people who dug the hole. It's a bit like that line about whether or not you are a mug or a billionaire

There are only two types of people who would, for example, vote for Nigel Farage to be prime minister, mugs or billionaires

And it's very easy to check which you are. You can just go to your bank account and then you can find out, are you a mug or are you a billionaire

But it's similar here. Has it worked? The things you've been persuaded to support

Brexit, Boris Johnson, deregulation, denationalization. Donald Trump. as a doughty ally of this island nation

All of those things that they've told you to support, all of those things that they've somehow persuaded you would make your life better

they've all made your life worse. And for the first time in my life, a politician made those points clearly, passionately

and concisely, well, maybe not concisely, on stage in Liverpool yesterday. So you can tell from my voice I'm not excited because I hate hope, as you know

It's the hope that gets you every time, the despair I can deal with, the despair I'm used to

But I don't think I expected to see a speech like that from a prime minister in my lifetime

Maybe an opposition leader, because I think that you can oppose in poetry

but you have to govern in prose. And Burnham yesterday somehow managed to

build a bridge between poetry and prose and also build a bridge between the past and the future

going right back to that shift in our national story in 1979

when the, if you like, the promotion of selfishness became our island story

and reflecting upon the consequences of that. Remember, if you don't like what you're hearing

just ask yourself, has it worked? Has it worked? For you? Andy Burnham wants to fix things

I don't know whether he can or not, but he wants to try

So I'm going to hit the junction now. I'll come back, play you some bits of the speech

and then you will tell me what you I'm not doing a bob today stop asking me to do a bob we only do

bobs on Mondays bob if you don't know is the Burnham Optimism Barometer which for some people

getting in touch with the program seems to have broken it's a bit like the amp in spinal tap

it only goes up to 10 but I getting 11s coming into and that that the thing that the first and most important thing a politician can provide an electorate with it hope that is literally the most precious commodity

even more precious than money i know that sounds odd but but it is the difference between waking up

with hope in your heart um and waking up without hope in your heart as many very rich people

demonstrate on a daily basis you can be as rich as crisis and as miserable as sin but hope hope

is a happy thing. A healthier, wealthier, kinder country. And that's it. That's the divide. Is that

what you want? Or do you think things have worked? Do you think the last 50 years of doing things

their way has worked? And if anyone asks you about the question of hope, what they're really

asking you is, don't you prefer hate? This bloke keeps going on about hope. I've spent my entire

career peddling hate. I mean, who do you prefer? The bloke peddling hate or the bloke peddling

hope? You look at Nigel Farage, you look at Kemi Bader not, they're peddling hate. They're still

peddling hate of different degrees and different flavors. But that's the difference. That's why

it spooks them so much when he says it out loud. They can't say that out loud because

people might work out that I'm only really in the business of selling hate

and hope is something everyone can feel. Unless, of course, you think it's worked

Unless you think it's worked. It's, oh goodness me, it's another one of those mornings

I've got a lot more to say than I realise. But I do want to hear from you and we'll stay with this conversation

for as long as you want, actually. So don't worry that there won't be time

But do worry, in the first instance, about what you're going to say

It's 20 past 10. James O'Brien on LBC. 22 minutes after 10

And given that he nicked my Monopoly line, which I will remind you of shortly, then possibly he's going to nick this next

Has it actually worked for you? It's mad when you think about how the populists

and the racists who dominate our political discourse in so many ways at the moment

are always peddling the idea that you've been let down, that you've been betrayed

And of course, they try to blame it on recent arrivals or people of colour or, I don't know

black men on television or whatever it is this week. And the real question, which Andy Burnham hit yesterday, was have the consequences of deregulation, denationalization and destruction, actually, of social capital, has it worked for you

In no particular order. I think we'll begin with housing because that's the ultimate social capital

I got taught this by you, that capital is not just material

as a member of a society you should have social capital access to the nhs free at the point of

care is social capital something really valuable that you own um of course in many ways utilities

were social capital before they were sold off uh and the new national social care service will be

social capital but perhaps the most obviously social capital is social housing housing that

belongs in a sense to a society and the members of that society who need it most can live in it

and he gets that. Well, anyway, listen for yourself. Go to almost any town across Britain

and you will see plenty of empty homes. We will give councils the power to take control of them

and bring them back into the public housing stock. You will see rented homes in a poor state of repair, too

on so many British streets. homes which harm the health of the people inside and drag down the streets around them

the worst of it often owned by absent landlords who are paid through the benefit system

but refuse to reinvest anything in the upkeep of the property and of course stuff on the tweaking to right to buy as well which we'll have a look at shortly

That is huge, and that is one of the biggest issues facing most communities and indeed many families

And I guess, I mean, on a less immediate footing, you would have to have a look at what he has to say about the social care

And by less immediate, I mean, he stuck a date on it, but he needed and succeeded in explaining exactly why it was necessary

Care. It is about people, not profit, which gives peace of mind over care needs in later life

which protects people's homes and their savings, and gives proper recognition to the care workers we will all need to rely on at some point in our lives

Conference, this is the National Care Service we will build. They've all known that needed to be done

and he is not the first Prime Minister to try or to announce it

but I don't think anyone has done so quite so with their full chest

as the kids say. And a lot of the reason why some politicians haven't addressed this

is because it's too big a mountain to climb. And that, for me, was the essence of yesterday's speech

Yeah, these mountains are bloody huge, but we have no choice but to try to climb them

That is the message. and if he fails, he fails. But goodness me, spare me another electoral cycle

in which they don't even try to get up these mountains. And of course, one of the biggest things we need

if we're to start climbing the economic mountains that are in front of us is this

I say this to you and the country. We will not give Britain the clear path we need

into the rest of this century until we decide on a long-term relationship

with what is still our largest market. I cannot say to you truthfully that where we are is good enough

Brexit has done more harm than good. We need to restore a higher level of growth and prosperity for Britain

So I will take the opportunity around the summit to lay out to you, to lay out to the country

what I believe the different options are for Britain's long-term relationship with our European partners

And there are different options. And I will see if we can find consensus around one

which will give us clarity about our position and the future of the continent that we live in

How have we become a country where him stating something as simple, straightforward and self-evident as that is even vaguely controversial

It's as if he'd stood there and said, conference, the Pope is a Catholic

Conference, comrades, bears, sha-la-la-la-la in the woods. Conference, Brexit has hurt us economically

I mean, madness. You see, you think I exaggerate sometimes about the stranglehold

that the usual suspects have on our discourse But there a perfect example of it And the breaking of that stranglehold the breaking of that stranglehold I think involves humanity actually And I can remember

a prime minister or perhaps even a politician that was so ineffably human. Ian Dunn, one

of my favorite writers, uses the phrase in his substact this week, yesterday, emotional

presence, an emotional presence. And I don't know whether it's got anything to do with public school

but I've told you a few times, if you go to a school like mine, you are encouraged to repress

your emotions. You are encouraged to be emotionally absent. You are encouraged to have a stiff upper

lip. And that's not healthy. And it robs you of empathy. It robs you of the ability to imagine

what it's like to be somebody else, what it's like to walk in somebody else's shoes, because

you're so busy denying your own pain, and I didn't make this up, by the way

there's a whole school of psychology that reflects what they call boarding school syndrome. You're so busy trying to deny your own pain

you become absolutely anaesthetised to anybody else's. So make no mistake, his emotional presence

his emotional literacy, the crucial part of his project. We can't succeed in the eyes of the world

if we continue with the levels of political turbulence we have seen in recent times

It is always in my mind that I'm the seventh Prime Minister in ten years

It is why I want to underpin our plan for Britain with a new politics

We will all have failed in our public duties if we carry on as we are

and open the door of number 10 to a divisive government on less than 30% of the vote or less

And we shouldn't... We were doing so well. That's the wrong clip. This is the evidence of emotional presence and emotional literacy

and the values that he is bringing into Downing Street. It's very hard for me to put into words

the emotion I feel standing here before you all. For me, life truly has come full circle

Because this is where my story began My grandad drove a lorry along these docks

For Tate and Lyle My grand Kitty inherited the drive of her Irish ancestors

She walked three miles out of the bombed out city After the war

To put a deposit down on her house without Jimmy's knowledge, actually

I wouldn't do that to you, John, wherever you are, Chancellor. She put a deposit down on her house

the house where I was born. It changed the fortunes of my family

It was where my mum and dad started off, built a partnership

and went on to create our own family home, and filled it with life, love, and laughter

Eileen and Roy gave me a care for people, forged by her faith, his politics

and the values of this great city we are in again for our conference

they guided me to the point where i stand before you today

ours is the same story of so many families british families of my generation

a story of working class aspiration and and on he goes um how big is this moment let's just do it

you can say it's not big at all james um but of course that involves saying things are going

absolutely brilliantly for me. I don't know what everybody else is moaning about. Life's never been better

Because that is the only way you can logically support the alternative to what Andy Burnham is offering

Because that is the status quo. Everything's going great. I can think of a few people who would argue that

I've got no complaints about the state of my life and situation

But hell, that's not patriotism, is it? You're supposed to care about other people

That's what patriotism is. It's not shinning up a lamppost with a tatty flag, but speaking about looking after people who need to be looked after

and recognizing the value of community and social capital. Yeah, go on

Feel free to rain on my parade or we on my chips or however you want to describe it, but I think this is huge

Win or lose, succeed or fail, he's finally provided the diagnosis that the country needed

So for you, how big is this moment? How significant was this speech

Hit the numbers now. You will get through if you're quick. 0345 6060 973

It's 10.33, and Dominic Ellis has your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC

A long list of potential questions. One of them was actually, why did you cry? So many people getting in touch to say that they actually wept

as indeed the Prime Minister very nearly did himself. Why was it different

how big a moment was it with the constant caveat that you are welcome

to rain on this parade, this parade of hope you're welcome of course to say

no we don't need to do any of these things everything's going really really well vote for more of it

what was it that happened in that hall yesterday and I hope I've given an impression

of what it felt like even if you weren't able to listen, what was so

different, what was so different from Labour or Tory Prime Ministers that have gone before

Paul's in Durham, Paul what do you reckon Hiya, James. Good to talk to you at last

Likewise. I've been waiting for this for ages, Paul. Yeah, I have too, yeah

Yes, I think, to be honest, I'm the same as you, James. Just listening to your opening words there

I don't think I have been as enthused by a politician's speech ever, to be honest

And I think the thing that struck me was it was bold, which, you know, and I think when you've got a big majority

as Labour have, you can afford to be bold. But he was bold on social care, on housing

on the water utilities, on Brexit. And, I mean, I think, well, for me

I mean, the big thing for me, actually, is electoral reform. I've been pushing for electoral reform for a long, long time

Can I ask why? Because it's just you and me, no one else can hear

so I'm going to confide in you. It doesn't get me going

It gets Eleanor going, the producer of the programme. She wants to do it as a whole topic later today

and we still might. But it leaves... I just... I did it..

I might because I did it at A-level and I just got a bit bored by it all. I did it..

It leaves me cold, so warm me up, Paul. Warm me up. Well, I mean, I just think that

if you look around the country, there are vast areas of the country

where people's thought just doesn't count. Yeah, yeah. Because they're in safe seats

and, you know, they can vote for whoever they like and it won't make any difference

If we went for a proportional system, then you're going to end up with everybody's vote

actually counting equally. And I think you will get a more accurate reflection

of what the country... And what about the worries often expressed that proportional representation nudges the door a little wider for the fascists

It does nudge it a little wider. So, I mean, if we, I mean, say if they vote from 24, if that was reflected in proportional representation

then I think you would get 100 seats for reform, which is true

but I think that what you would find is that under proportional representation

reform would get more seats but they would never get in government

because, well, they would need to get over 50% because nobody's going to work with them

And we have actually seen that with the rise of far-right parties and other European companies

I mean, I said fascist, you said reform. It's interesting that you... And that was perfectly your prerogative

but I wasn't actually thinking of them in the first instance. I was thinking of the more obviously fascist movements

in other European countries. But you're right. I mean, that is a big one

And it was brave. Because it involves, I think that the subtext to electoral reform reluctance

is always you'll never govern alone again. Yeah, that is true. But he doesn't mind

He kind of recognises what you've just described. We shouldn't be governing alone again

You shouldn't be able to govern with 30% of the vote because you haven't taken enough of the country with you

It's a mad thing for someone with his majority under first-past-the-post to say

but it's another reason to think he's doing things a bit differently. Absolutely

And, I mean, he was talking very positively about collaboration with other parties

And, I mean, you know, he's spoken about that even before his speech yesterday

I mean, we've seen him stand at the dispatch box and offering, can we better knock, you know

come and work with me kind of thing. I think he actually means that, you know. I mean, I don't imagine he holds that much hope of it actually happening

But it sets a scene that a future Tory leader might slot into

just because she now has to pretend that none of her top people have said any of the things that they've actually said about the triple lock pension

because she can't change. She can't get out of this adversarial culture war mindset

He genuinely wants to, doesn't he? He genuinely wants to move out of that. What about the mode of delivery? I was going to hold on to this for the second hour, but my introduction was even longer than usual

So we'll mix the two together. How important is the emotion to you personally

I think you came across as extremely genuine. And, I mean, you know, all the stuff about his father

And, you know, I mean, those of us who have been in that position, I mean, I lost my dad a couple of years ago

Yeah. And, you know, you could see what it meant to him

It's a club, isn't it? It was genuine. It's a club. Those of us lucky enough to have dads that we really looked up to

and loved and who loved us back and who we've lost, it's a club, that

You either get that or you don't. And I don't mean any criticism of anybody by that

That's why I use the word luck. But I fully understood. I knew when he welled up that I said, in fact, I was in the office trying to write something

I actually said he's about to talk about his dad. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you could tell that was from the heart

And, I mean, all I could think was his dad just must be so proud of him. Yeah

And I think that's really important. And I mean, again, I loved the way that he didn't actually single out the people pushing that door ever wider at the moment

He spoke about what he wanted to do, not how awful everybody else was

But it did sort of remind me slightly of how inauthentic it sounds sometimes when other Labour politicians talk about their fathers being toolmakers or bus drivers

Not in a bad way. They're trying to make a connection. They're trying to reach people. But as you say, there was an authenticity to Burnham when he did it that the tears, of course, endorsed, but which also the simple mode of delivery seemed to seem to describe

Thank you, Paul. 10.43 is the time. Jenny's in Yeovil. Jenny, what would you like to say

I might get a bit emotional. Excuse me. But yeah, I was

This is this is Andy Burnham's Britain. Jenny, you're allowed to get emotional

I sadly lost my dad two years ago. You're in the club, really

Yeah, yeah. So my dad was a Labour man through and through

And, you know, he kept saying to me, you've got to stay in the Labour party

you've got to fight with him and all this. And he probably would have been pretty chuffed

that, you know, Andy Burnham got in and he was not a fan of Keir Starmer

even though he kept saying how his background comes from a working class background

it just didn't feel the same as what Andy Burnham was saying

It might be horribly unfair. It might not be. But, I mean, you know, he never told any fibs

His credentials were as kosher as Burnham's. And, you know, they tried to claim that he ran a massive business and had a workforce

they were frightened of that connection to normal people, if you like

But Burnham just feels realer, you're right. Yeah, he does. And, you know, he was getting emotional about, you know, social health care

and the way he talks about the people that looked after his dad

You know, my dad was looked after by, you know, right at the end

you know, these sort of nurses that come in and they look after you

And then, you know, they weren't there for, you know, very long, but they kept, you know, so it felt really real to me

And the changes that he wants to make with water and social care and, you know, simple things like the bus fares, you know, it just feels different

And I can tell you, as you've been speaking, Yvette Cooper has announced at party conference that Shaw starts coming back as well

which was one of the cruelest, cruelest blows that George Osborne inflicted on this country

when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer, the abolition of a system that promoted not just child care and child health

but also community and fellow feelings. So, you know, it feels like a moment, doesn't it

It does feel a moment and it feels more like what the Labour Party should be

You know, I think... It's the Labour Party. It's your dad's Labour Party

Yeah, my dad's Labour Party. and he'd be happy. What a lovely thing

Thank you, Jenny. And I meant it, actually, at the beginning of that conversation

when I said you're allowed to be emotional. You look at the..

And it's not a Tory-Labor thing, actually, but you look at the emotional buttoned-upness

of many of our Prime Ministers, including Keir Starmer. Again, it's not a partisan thing

but very much David Cameron, Boris Johnson, I mean, utterly, utterly devoid of empathy, almost entirely narcissistic

And that's why some of those moments were very special. And I'll remind you of some more shortly

And I'll also give you the electoral reform comments as well, because I think it's my it's it's a me problem

This right that it doesn't warm me up that I still feel quite cold about this conversation

Many times over the years we've spent together, I've come from a position of relative ambivalence and ended up both engaged and

impassioned as a consequence of you telling me why I should warm up and stop being relatively

cold about something So I know that has moved ahead of a lot of people And we will perhaps today try to work out exactly why it 10 We also of course find out a little more about what Yvette Cooper has just said regarding Sure Start centres

The time now is 10.47. James O'Brien on LBC. It's 10.11. A little bit of illustration of a previous caller's point

and then a little bit of self-indulgence because, frankly, you might get confused if there wasn't any self-indulgence

you might think I've been replaced by a robot or by AI. So here is the comment that floats a lot of boats

but doesn't actually float mine. Where private companies serve the public interest

we will support them. But the consequences will be clear for those who do not

including taking back control or public ownership. Conference. Conference, when people hear the phrase public control, I am sure some think it's anti-business

It's the opposite. Businesses need the basics to be functional and affordable too, as does the wider economy

As someone said to me recently, there's a reason why you can't build all over the waterworks

and the electric company on the monopoly board. One of the biggest barriers to growth in the UK is the cost of energy

British businesses and bill payers pay some of the highest energy costs in Europe

Within 10 years, I want those costs to be in line with our neighbours

This means reforming a broken energy market so it better serves the public interest

We are already taking more control of our electricity prices with a massive expansion of homegrown renewables and nuclear

I have asked Miata to speed up the breaking of the link between what we pay for power at home and the international gas market to get bills down

I mean come on where did he hear that I mean the best case scenario

from Andy Burnham not crediting me as a gag writer for him it got the best laugh it got the nicest chuckle of the entire speech

it probably was someone that helped him write the speech one of his speech writers who obviously got it

from this programme but that I mean come on listen again to this and tell me where you think

you might have heard this before businesses need the basics to be functional and affordable too as does the wider economy

as someone said to me recently there's a reason why you can't build all over the waterworks

and the electric company on the monopoly board that's my laughter that's my laughter andy burnham it was all going so well you gag thief

That's extraordinary. Somebody said to me recently. He told Sheila how much he listens to LBC

I hope you listen to that program on Monday. But that's my..

He stole it off me. Now I have to find it. Now I have to find it

And that's actually quite hard. So if you can remember when I said it, give us a quick heads up and I'll play them side by side

Me literally going on air and realising halfway through a monologue, just going, hang on a minute

You're not allowed to put houses and hotels on the utilities, are you

Or on the plumbing railway stations. Transport, energy, water. They should all be exempt from some of the parameters of the free market

They should all somehow be insulated from some of the worst excesses of reckless profiteering

I literally, it struck me, you could see the light bulb go off above my head

And then the flipping Prime Minister passes it off. not quite as his own work but utterly uncredited that's not fair even honest bob generick gave me

a name check at conservative conference a couple of years ago but andy burnham not a sausage not a

sausage um and i know you spotted it simon says i credited it to my wife like i told you it was i

told my wife it was you he listens to lbc he clearly got it from you honestly anyway if you

can remember exactly when I said it. So we need a timestamp, effectively

I've said it three or four times. If this was the BBC, we'd have

six people working full... If this was the newsagents, if Emily Maitlis had made that little observation

about them, they'd have it, they'd probably have it gold-plated by now, a plaque above

the studio door, with a quote and a letter of thanks from

Andy Burnham that have had top teams working on this for the whole of the

blooming day. But, um... Where? Give me the clip. Find me the clip

Because it's all about me, obviously. No, it's not. It's all about Lynne in Barnsley

Lynne, what made you pick up the phone? Hi, James. Hello, Lynne

I was compelled to pick up the phone this morning because I was driving home from holiday yesterday

listening to the speech. Yes. And it was very emotional. And the time when..

The thing that hit me in the eyes when I was listening to it

was right early on in the speech, he used the word patriot

Yes. He said he was a patriot. And I just thought, oh, thank God

somebody's using it in the right way rather than all these patriotic nunkties that are..

Tatty flags and domestic abusers turning up outside. Exactly. And these guys with balaclavas on it

I can't remember what they're called, but anyway. I was really pleased to hear and say them

It's just Prats, isn't it? They're Pratriotic. yeah Patriotic Front I think is the correct title

the Patriotic Front sorry carry on no it just gave me the

it just gave me the idea that although he didn't he hasn't really broached the subject of these people

in Balaclav as much right he's aware of them and he used that word patriot in the right context

you know just to let everybody know that he's listening and that is what patriotism is

Perpetuitism is about making things better for society. Not just for people who look like you or people who agree with you

or people who share your prejudices and bigotries. It is about looking after everybody

And that did come across, didn't it? I mean, it's a little early, perhaps, to pontificate over why it is apparently so hard to do what he did yesterday

But it is fair to say that I can't remember anyone else doing it, not in my lifetime

No, I can't remember a speech that just made you think. There were times when you just, well

and there were times when we were just going in the car, yay, he's doing that

You know, the one thing that really struck me was when he said they're going to repeal Margaret Thatcher's bill

where water companies can't be in public ownership. I didn't even know that was it

No, I didn't either. I mean, it makes sense, I suppose, but it would have been a guarantee to make sure that the fat cats who were buying the water companies went through with the deal because if there was a you going to make it illegal for us to take the take it back off you so you do what you want you can pump shocking amounts of

sewage into our waterways and we won't be able to do anything about it listen the devil will be in

the detail but sometimes the principles matter don't they and that was a principle laid out as

you say in ways that made even those of us who weren't fully aware of the status quo recognize

how rotten the status quo was. Exactly. And I just think it was..

I think the other thing that I liked as well was that he didn't tear the Tories apart

or reform apart. And he wants to build this consensus. I don't think they're listening, though

No, of course they can't listen. But in a way, the comment you picked up on

was very much a shot at Nigel Farage. Because he, of course, he's very much a fake patriot

who's never got anything to say about the murders of people like Sarah Everard or Joe Cox

But if the culprit turns out to have quite a lot of melanin in their skin

then, goodness me, it's the biggest story since the Roman invasion. So he knew what he was doing when he talked about patriotism

But you're a nicer person than me. Because I quite... No, you're not what you probably are

but not necessarily on this. It would have not have actually felt right

if he'd done ad hominems yesterday, if he'd gone after individuals in the way that so many of them do

Yeah, I just think he's leading where he wants others to follow

He's, you know, leading by example. Whether or not Kemi Bajanak or Nigel Farage will take note and follow

I doubt it. I'm not actually listening to any of their comments about it

but you know he's leading he is leading yeah and he's told us where he's leading us yeah and and

whether he gets there or not there is something you're absolutely right there's something quite refreshing and and and exciting about the feeling of actually having leadership in in a way that we

haven't had before i think kinnett probably could have delivered a speech a bit like that if he'd

actually become prime minister but of course but of course he didn't um and that's why i said that

that's why I use the phrase in my lifetime, I'm talking about prime ministerial speeches

not all speeches. It's 11 o'clock, we're not going anywhere. We might move on slightly

although I've got loads of calls to get through first, but I am drawn to the importance of emotion

I recommended a song to you some years ago, not long after my

it was quite a while after my dad passed away actually, but it was a song that spoke to me so directly

about the experience of losing a beloved father and I realise how lucky

One is to have a beloved father. Not everybody does. But I just loved that

I've got to be honest with you. That was empathy coming from the audience for him

That's the beautiful thing about empathy. And one of the often overlooked things about empathy is that it's actually a two-way street

So in many ways, the people who lack it lose out on both fronts

They lose the ability to work out what the world might look like through someone else's window

but they also never know the very acute pleasure of feeling seen, valued and cared for

because people would have reached out subconsciously with care for Andy Burnham yesterday

That's an amazing thing for a politician to have done. Thank you, Lynne

The time now is, it's just gone 11 o'clock. James O'Brien on LBC

It's four minutes after 11 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC

I mean, things of note, almost beyond the speech. Lynn, I think it was, talking about the reaction or the lack of reaction and the patheticness of the sort of client journalists and reform and Tory politicians trying to bite chunks out of what happened yesterday

And it is just pathetic. But, you know, how many times do I need to remind you that the coalition of dishonest right-wing politicians and client journalists has been incredibly successful in this country over the last 16, almost 20 years, really, whether you want to start with Brexit or Boris Johnson or wherever it goes

But they've got nothing to say about the Brexit thing. It's that ludicrous little quote in our news there from Kevin Hollenrake about how, well, there's no point going back now because it won't be as good as it was when we left

And, of course, his party is not even allowed to be in his party if he were to come out and say, well, it was a mistake to leave

It's absolutely incredible. Even Farage, as far as I can tell, has got, although I presume he's keeping quite a low profile after insisting that he had special intelligence about the identity of the people arrested at Fairford

It turned out to be none of the things that he told people they were. Even he doesn't seem to have anything to say about Brexit

Actually, of all the things Nigel Farage wishes would go away, I suspect conversations about Brexit are quite high up on the list

I mean, there's a lot on the list. The fact that he never has any constituency surgeries in Clacton

despite the fact that he spent five million quid on security that he said was the reason why he couldn't have constituency surgeries in Clacton

And don't at me to point out that that story changed within 10 minutes of it coming out of his mouth, because I know that

He doesn't want to talk about the five million quid either. He doesn't want to talk about the millions and millions and millions of pounds that have been given to his party by cryptocurrency billionaires

And that remains the party that has only really announced one detailed policy platform

And that was designed to make cryptocurrency billionaires infinitely richer than they are already

Absolutely incredible. So we continue with our conversation about the speech yesterday

And I enjoy the question that we're asking. I'm not moving away from it yet

How big a moment was this? but also let's make it personal because he did

I loved Lynn's call. Was it Lynn who talked about a late father? Forgive me if I've got my callers mixed up

but I love the way it was personalised. I just think the way he personalised it was really powerful

So why did it mean so much to you personally? So you've got the political and you've also got the personal

So Shawstart, as Yvette Cooper has announced today, will be reintroduced. We'll get a little bit more on that from Natasha Clark

who was in the hall when the speech happened. She'll start is personal for me, you know

And it's not because we needed it, you know, that we were financially unable to take the kids

to places where they could play. We could go to soft play gyms. We could afford to go to whatever it was called at Kew Gardens

Climbers and creepers at Kew Gardens where the kids could run around and they would make friends and we could do those things

because we had a few quid. But the lovely thing about Shawstart was it was on our estate

and the estate that we lived on at the time had social housing as well as private housing

And it meant that my wife, who would take the children there, could make friends with people

and the children could make friends with people that were from different cultures and different backgrounds

It was a proper community thing, Shawstart. And yeah, obviously, if you live in the middle of the Cotswolds

you're unlikely to have quite the experience that we had. But you're still going to have economic diversity, even if you haven't got cultural or ethnic diversity

And that's the point. The rich tapestry of our country contains threads of many many many colors And the political direction at the moment is to pretend that it doesn or to try to get rid of them all so that you just got one massive white sheet up in front of you

instead of a beautiful picture, instead of a beautiful tapestry. And Shaw Start, I think unintentionally

I don't think George Osborne realised what a terrible thing he was doing because I don't think he had any idea

how powerful Shaw Start had been. Was a wonderful example of that

So I'm glad that it's coming back. I really am. But I want the personal

I want to know why you were so moved by that speech yesterday

0345 6060 973. So obviously a big moment. Unless, of course, you think everything's going brilliantly

In which case you must have been a massive Keir Starmer fan. You see the hypocrisy that is inflicted upon you by that coalition of client journalists and lying politicians

Everything's awful. Everything's awful. What are you going to do? Stop the boats

Really? and that's going to make everything better, is it? Yes. What else have you got

Make cryptocurrency billionaires richer and stop the boats. That's the speech we needed to hear

People who've been persuaded that the country is in a hole and that it is somehow not the fault of all the things

that Andy Burnham identified yesterday. Tell me what you think is to blame

How do we fix Britain? Stop the boats and make cryptocurrency billionaires

even richer than they are already, James. Yes, that's it. Vote Nigel

That is it. That's what they offer you. Stop the boats, all sort of 20,000 of those people, I think, this year

and make cryptocurrency billionaires and also stick more flags on lampposts. Or you look at the consequences of deregulation, denationalization

and destruction of social capital, and you ask yourself, how does that work for me

And is it likely that my life is going to improve if we make offshore cryptocurrency, foreign-based cryptocurrency billionaires

even richer than they are already, somehow stop the boats and put more tatty flags on lampposts down your road

That's your choice, really, in some ways, between the two parties that have been leading the polls in recent months

And Andy Burnham laid out a proper choice, so that's why it meant a lot to me. 03456060973 is the number you need to tell me why it meant a lot to you

Owen is in Birmingham, Owen what would you like to say? Hiya, I just want to say

that you guys have saved me the international break boredom over the last couple of weeks

I'm about to switch radio stations so I'm a new listener but I've been listening to your show for the last week

and I think your views are absolutely brilliant What a lovely thing to say

So we've tempted you over from the wall-to-wall football crowd Yes, you have done, yeah

So you don't want to hear my thoughts on Borham Wood beating Kid Aminster Harriers 3-1

last night and going 2-0 up in the first 15 minutes I'm into Nun League as well, I run a football team

myself. Do you? Take it from me, Boreham would have been going to take some

catching. They really are this season in the National League. We're about five divisions below yourselves

I'll see you in a few years then, Owen. Come on. What do you want to say

What I wanted to talk about was how it felt like a turning point yesterday. It really did feel like

a turning point. I've read Andy Burnham's book with Steve Rutherford recently. I wanted to get to know

like the Prime Minister. I wanted to know what he was about because we've had a little bit of

well, we've had, since I've been a voting age every single politician has almost

felt like a different version of the last one. Yes, yes, that's

beautifully put. How old are you? I'm 27, I'm 28 well, I'm 28 next month. So you've had

more Prime Ministers while you've been voting age and I'm 54 than I had, I think

until 2016. Yeah. I just wanted to say that like this this doesn't feel like policy of the day like we've had since i've been a voting

age it feels like we've got a proactive prime minister rather than a reactive prime minister

he set out a plan and whether you agree or disagree of the things that he's put forward

he's offered he's offered something now i'm not necessarily the biggest fan of uh cancelling the

triple up pension but like that's because that's more from the fact that i don't agree with like

people playing left versus right. I think we need to be looking at the billionaires

and a wealth tax I don't think we should be taking from people who are almost in the same boat

just being forced to look at each other. It's not either or. Remember that and watch this space

But the annual toll of a pension rise that is not tied to either earnings or inflation

and will go up anyway is unsustainable. And the problem here, and I'm glad you've raised that, is that it's actually really hard to explain

And it's probably one of my criticisms of yesterday's speech in that it was perfectly possible to come away from it not fully understanding what he was proposing

at which point client journalists and dishonest right wing politicians, yeah, exactly that

They start pretending that it's something that it isn't. So to be clear, they've essentially taken the earnings out of the triple lock every year, but not permanent

If you see what I mean, it won't be an annual assessment of what is highest, earnings, inflation or two and a half percent

So you take earnings out of that and then it will rise by either inflation or two and a half percent every year

And if the earnings of the economy are rising higher, then there'll be a periodic adjustment to catch up

So the graphs are actually really powerful and make the point... Ultimately. But it will save 15 billion quid

Exactly. Ultimately, it will save people money. Like, I was fully aware of that yesterday

It was just a case... Were you? Because I still don't get it, mate. Don't tell anyone. I just said the words

I didn't really understand the numbers. Yeah. Well, the moment the speech finished yesterday

you had people who my phone was popping up with, I scrapped the triple up pension, everyone's screwed

It's just not the case. my overall point is now that even if you're on the right side of politics like and you are a

patriot in quotation marks yes you we we are now going to have to see the other political parties

like lay their colors to the mast as well like it can no longer just be some technocratic

like like fine print where we might benefit we might not then now has to be a clear vision for

britain and i feel like this is something that is like i said it's not policy of the day this is

Andy Burnham setting out his vision for Britain and it feels like a lot more of a caring Britain

a Britain that appreciates British values and understands what it really means to be a patriot

Like, we're finally getting to that point. It feels like we've got a politician that we can

get behind and I think he's going to win a lot of people over, I really do. His book was fascinating

talking about his experience on the day of Hillsborough and what sort of led him to go

down that route. I thought he was such a brilliant orator and I feel

like the British public are really going to get won over by him if the media allow him to. Well they won't

and that's the challenge and it doesn't mean that doesn't mean he'll fail. The media is less and less

powerful with every passing year and some messages I think can almost sort of get under the

wire. They can get under the armour but you've picked very powerfully the most important of the

first and most important message which is the truth about what he's doing the triple lock needs to be explained to people

And tragically, there are plenty of people in politics and even in my profession, possibly even on this radio station, who will not do that

They either because they can't be bothered to find out for themselves what it actually involves or because they don't want to run the risk of pushing votes towards a person

who isn't going to represent the interests of Epic Wealth. But I think you've absolutely nailed it

I can't wait to hear some of your football ysis. I don't know if my players will always agree with that, to be honest with you

Take it easy. I hope we talk again. And thank you for the kind words about all of us here at LBC Towers

11.16 is the time. James O'Brien on LBC. It is 18 minutes after 11 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC

Let's rattle through some texts. Not quite at random because we have to make sure that they're not full of swear words or slurs

But I think you'd agree the tone is pretty consensual. Apart from Del. Thank you, Del

Boreham Wood 3, Kidderminster 1 writes Del in Boreham Wood. Well done, Del

How brilliant it is to hear a genuinely patriotic speech from Burnham. such a contrast to the self-serving faux-patriots

that populate the Tories and reform, writes John. Andrea picks up on that point, saying

what I like the most is that Burnham didn't say the names of all the disruptors

I'm so glad that he didn't give any oxygen to the far-right politicians

I must say, James writes, James in Glasgow, even for an independence supporting Scott at 43 years old

I hope he is the Prime Minister of my lifetime. And if that speech is anything to go by, I think he will be

I just want to say, says Lynn, I listened to the whole of Andy Burnham's speech yesterday. It was the most inspiring political speech I've ever heard in my life

And I'm 74 years old. It made me teary-eyed, especially the bit about social housing

This from Anonymous in Skipton. To read today's discussion with James, it was admirable how Burnham never called another party out during his speech

The best quote I saw this week was on Blue Sky. Isn't it interesting that they want to go back to the 1950s in every way

except the tax structure that funded it? That, of course, is referring to his critics rather than him

I am incredibly hopeful and noted that my dad, a Daily Mail reader, was impressed with the policy announcements

Sadly, knowing my dad as I do, the Daily Mail will chip away at him and in the future vote against the interests of his grandchildren

Let's hope not, David. You can chip back. And I actually have some advice for people like David's granddad

if they feel or they have been persuaded that they're going to suffer unfairly

as a consequence of the triple lock being tweaked to bring the pension rises more into line

with the improvements in the finances of everybody else in the country

I can save you about £800 a year right now. Get your dad on

Phone your dad, David, in Chapstow. Tell him to put the radio on. I can save him about £800 a year right now

Do you know how? Seriously, this could apply to the pensioner in your life as well. Well

only if they are suffering from one of the conditions that David's dad

is suffering from, as described a moment ago by David. You ready? Yeah. Stop buying the Daily Mail

Ta-da! You're 800 quid a year or thereabouts better off. That's fantastic. Makes up

any shortfall caused by the recalibrating of the triple lock and then some with change

21 minutes after 11. I'm full of good ideas, me. Absolutely jam-packed with good ideas

Here is another example. Now, why are utilities important? Why do utilities have their own category on a monopoly board

And the reason why utilities are important, very simply, is because they are absolutely essential

to the safe and healthy running of a country. First of September. And I mean, I've made this point several times

Thank you to everybody who used ChatGPT to find the clip that we were unable to find

Because that was on the 1st of September. and this, this was yesterday

As someone said to me recently, there's a reason why you can't build all over the waterworks

and the electric company on the Monopoly board. It's 22 minutes after 11

That's enough of that nonsense. Apologies for a brief and temporary outbreak of excessive egotism

Joe's in Colchester. Joe, what made you pick up the phone? Yeah, just..

I'm a big Andy Burnham fan, but that even surprised me yesterday

He's exceeded my expectations. The whole thing was extremely emotional for me to watch

because I never thought I'd see the day that you'd see a Prime Minister standing up there

and setting out a clear vision for the country to change it for the better for all of its people

but the bit that moved me the most was when he spoke about his dad

and the vision his dad had that resonated hugely with me my father is a socialist

a long term labour supporter who lived through the Thatcher years struggled through the Thatcher years

extremely strongly against Thatcherism and talked very much about the damage

it's done to the country. And to see, he, unfortunately, he has Alzheimer's

and he can't connect now with politics in the way that he used to

So he didn't watch the speech and he wouldn't have the capacity

to take it in properly. That's really poignant, isn't it? Yeah. Because Burnham's dad didn't know

I mean, I found that almost unbearably moving when he talked in a previous conversation

about how his dad didn't know he'd become prime minister. And your dad, who is clearly possessed of similar politics

has also kind of checked out of that previously very passionate area of his life

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I know that he's longed the day

to see something like that. So I felt like I felt that for him as well

as well as for myself. I mean, should we do bits? What was the thing you were most delighted to hear

or was it just the whole package? Well, I mean, I was delighted

Yeah, the whole thing was fantastic, you know, but really talking about when he spoke about the vision

that his dad had of the country, what this country was to his dad and what he fought for

and that bit there when it exploded and he spoke about a United Kingdom

that fought for the Commonwealth, fought for the National Health Service, the trade unions

That really, you know, finally, this is a guy that really wants to take back control

get our country back. That was a clever touch, wasn't it? Reclaiming that phrase, actually

and rooting it in evidence and reality rather than in nonsense and rhetoric

And explaining. Exactly. Exactly. Explaining how to take back control. When we hear the right talking about taking back control, they don't explain what they

mean by that. This was a full explanation as to how we take back control and how we serve the country

to the needs of the people He doesn you know and I heard a lot of your callers have said about the fact that he hasn called people out on the right No Farage knocking

Because he creates the conversation. He wants to create the conversation that we're having today

that the country has. And Starmer didn't do that. Starmer couldn't create the conversation

He reacted to the conversation that was created by Nigel Farage. And he is saying, I'm not doing that

I am telling you what I want to talk about. I'm telling you the direction that I want the country to go in

and I'm trying to bring you on board. Not just pandering to what the latest polls say the voters want

putting his vision out and bringing people with him. That's what real politicians that we all remember in history

that made a difference over here and in the US, that's what they've done and that's what he's doing

and it's so refreshing to see. You're absolutely right. You've expressed that brilliantly, that difference between reactive and proactive, really, isn't it

The difference between being the captain of a ship or being a subject to the weather, really, blowing in whichever direction the wind blows

And that's why I think he's bought himself quite a lot of time, actually, as well

You know, that's one of the problems with Starmer's approach that, you know, if a wheel started squeaking, you would start thinking that the whole vehicle was headed for the scrapyard

Whereas with Burnham, because he has a much clearer long-term variety, you know, a number of long-term goals

So the destination is long-term and clear. then bumps in the road are not going to

I'm probably going to look back on this and chuckle at my naivety, Joe

but the bumps in the road are not necessarily going to cause quite the problems for him that they did for Keir Starmer

because he didn't have a clear direction of travel. He hadn't persuaded the country that he knew where he was going

and therefore just leave him in the driving seat and stop worrying about the bumps in the road and the squeaky wheel

Yeah, I think it's spot on. When you set out a clear vision and direction where you want to go to

and when you can stand up there and no one can look at that and say that that wasn't genuine

that it didn't come from the heart he didn't mean it and i think people will give whatever your

politics are we all wanted someone like that and and and him if he makes if he if he if he creates

policies that don't quite work if he does if he if he does things that he has to sort of go back on

because they haven't worked in the way that they were intended to then i think people will be a hell

have a lot more forgiving because they know what his intention is and they believe in his intention

and therefore you can be forgiven for not getting everything right but when people can't see your

intent your vision for the future like starman never set out then you know every mistake you

make is going to be you don't know what you're doing you're you're clueless and all the things

that were spoken about starman at the time you've nailed it actually so maybe with the benefit of

retrospect i don't know whether you were that clear-eyed about it at the time i'm afraid i

wasn't but you've absolutely um diagnosed that that that difference that distinction between the

two of them or one of the two of them or one of the key elements of it and the other thing joe said

that i found fascinating the speech you needed to hear i wonder how many people didn't realize

that they needed to hear that speech until they heard that speech do you see what i mean i because

i think the only clever thing i've said today nothing up there with my monopoly ogies but

the only clever thing I've said today is, is it working for you? That is

how you work out whether or not somebody has been a victim of that classic Anirin

Bevan quote, or whether or not they should actually be on board

at least with hoping that Andy Burnham, there's a reason why he talks about

hope a lot, you've got to hope that he succeeds, unless you think that everything is

currently going brilliantly. I think it might be that simple. And that's why

there's panic in the usual suspects because they probably know that it is that simple, but they have to. They have to start

getting their shoulders to the wheel of persuading people like David's dad and like other people

that this is something to fear, that a healthier, wealthier kind of country is not something that

they should be hoping the prime minister delivers, having set out his plan to do so. And it is a

Rosetta Stone. What's the quote I've used the most on this program? I reckon there are three

contenders. There's the Orwell one about ignoring the evidence of your own eyes and ears. It's the

party's final most terrible command. There's the Steinbeck one about there being no such thing as

poverty in Dust Bowl era America, just the temporarily frustrated millionaires. But the

one that I think unlocks the most is the Nye Bevan one, when he said, how can wealth persuade

poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of

conservative politics in the 20th century. And Nairin Bevin there, absolutely nailing this simple principle that underpins this

program almost every day. Why are people so easily persuaded to vote against their own interests and instead support

the programs and the interests of people who wouldn't wee on them if they were on fire

whether you're talking about the great tycoons of Nye Bevan's age or whether you're talking about the cryptocurrency billionaires of today

In fact, let's do a 21st century version of that quote from Nye Bevan

that classic quote from Nye Bevan. Let's rewrite it for the 21st century

You ready? How can cryptocurrency billionaires persuade ordinary people to use their political freedom to further enrich cryptocurrency billionaires

And, of course, we know the answer. You give five million quid to Nigel Farage

It's 11.31. Here's Dominic Ellis with your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC

25 minutes to 12. I wonder whether the actual policy announcements are coming in a little thicker and faster today

than they have done previously. A sort of build-up to the Prime Minister's speech

the Prime Minister's speech, a heady mix of principle and passion. And we may move on to a conversation about the passion shortly

But Lisa Nandy currently announcing 1,000 new youth workers. That's one of the things

That's a really good example. When I was talking to you about electoral reform earlier, and I said things that I've needed your help in understanding the importance of

I went through a very long phase of talking about the dispossession of our youth

and the fact that young people were becoming increasingly likely to... Originally, it was the dangers of bad influences

and knife crime and those things. And you would ring me and say

we need more youth clubs. And I, with quite extraordinary but I hope forgivable arrogance

would just get a little bit bored. You tell me about... And I've turned it round, I mean, a lot, and indeed completely

Some wonderful phonies about the role that youth workers was perhaps played in your life when other adults were not stepping up to the plate

Some incredible stories. And that's something we must do again, actually, possibly tomorrow

as a consequence of what Lisa Nandy is in the middle of announcing. But that was something I needed you to help me see

because my background my life and also my tactics as a phone person I heard that before Tell me something new But obviously having adults good adults in the lives of young people

above and beyond the lottery of parenthood, whether they were lucky enough or not to have parents

but at 1,000 new youth workers, it might sound like a drop in the ocean

but that's going to change tens of thousands of lives, potentially, right there. Right there

And that's just been announced now. following on from Yvette Cooper's announcement addressing the welfare of even younger people

And Natasha Clark is joining me live from Liverpool to tell us a little bit more about that

So we've got maternity and we've got Sure Start, I think. Yeah, that's right, James. Good morning

Obviously, we've had the big speech from Andy Burnham yesterday, really focused on social care

and that will be Yvette Cooper, the Health Secretary's responsibility to deliver that national care service

that Andy Burnham talked so passionately about in his speech yesterday. And all the delegates are talking about that today

All the members are saying how moved they were to hear the Prime Minister talking about his dad in that way

So lots to say from Yvette Cooper talking about that importance and sort of sharing that sentiment as the Prime Minister there

But she's been talking this morning at the Labour Party conference. It's the final day, so they're all wrapping up with their final speeches

in the next hour or so. She's been talking about Sure Start, obviously a huge part of the last Labour government

And slowly, over the last two years, that's been a real focus of the NHS and the health department

to try and bring back some of what they thought really worked under Tony Blair's Labour government

And Sure Start 2.0 is what everybody has been calling the government's Healthy Babies Programme

which is now being expanded across the country, Yvette Cooper told us this morning

and essentially helps parents with the skills they need, with the advice they need, with the midwives, with the expertise

to make sure that every baby is getting all of the support that it possibly could need

She has been talking about expanding that. She's been talking about supporting parents

help their kids get the best start in life. They will be rolled out to more than 1,000 hubs by 2028

She's also been talking about making violence against women and girls a public health epidemic

I'm not quite sure what that will mean in terms of redirection for the NHS

but there's going to be £50 million more in support for the Vogue strategy

That's again been something that Keir Starmer has been talking about for quite a long time. It's clearly a priority for this Labour government

And James, I thought she seemed quite at ease in the role when I was listening to her speech this morning

Obviously, formerly the Foreign Secretary, a very different job going into the job of Health Secretary

And she told this very powerful story, I thought, about how when she was first appointed, it was actually mostly men that were criticising her

It was mostly men who were sniping from the sidelines saying that she was wrong to focus on maternity care

Here is what she had to say to the party conference just a few minutes ago. It is never, never too narrow to focus on the start of a new family life

When more women give birth in our NHS each year than all the hip and knee operations for men and women put together

It is never a mistake to focus on women, families and babies because every child deserves the best start in life

I bet Cooper really had a Weetabix this morning. And like I say, I think she's really comfortable in this role

And I think, you know, we've talked to, haven't we, James, at Prime Minister's questions about Ed Davey putting maternity health

sort of front and care of some of his questions to the Prime Minister. but actually arguably Labour's Yvette Cooper is already doing this trying to make maternity care

babies children growing up in the NHS violence against women and girls a really really big part

of what she thinks that this Labour government could do and you know trying to make the case that

this is what a Labour government does this is how we can make a difference and of course you know

Labour the party of the NHS of course she's going to get a great reception in the hall today and she

did hear us a little bit more of her speech. With our maternity task force we will bring back

new national maternity standards, including baby loss, post-pregnancy care, and we will appoint

an independent maternity and neonatal commissioner because I am sick and tired of women and babies

being treated as second-class patients and I will not stop until every mother is given the care she

deserves. So a real rallying cry there from Yvette Cooper, but I can say I think she seems much more

comfortable in this role than she probably was as Foreign Secretary. I think this will be a much more

suited role for her, and clearly delivering that national care service for Andy Burnham is going to

be a huge challenge for her in the coming weeks and months. Well, it makes it a bigger job. It

makes it a bigger job than it was when she took it, doesn't it? And also, I suppose, achievable

goals, you know. The Foreign Secretaries are very much in the lap of the gods, whereas with some of

these policy announcements, it's a to-do list that she can get stuck into. I presume

that this is one of the more remarkable conferences that you've attended

given that it's technically mid-term for a Labour government, but the air of renewal and rebirth is palpable

at least from here. Definitely. Absolutely, James. It's a really odd vibe, actually

But it feels like Labour 2.0. Everybody is saying that they are feeling like

they are being given a fresh chance by the electorate. Everybody is willing to give Andy Burnham a hearing

Lots of people still don't know what he's about, what kind of policies he will be choosing. We know a lot about what Burnhamism is, and I think we've learned that over the last few months

I think the devil now is going to be in that detail, what we will see him actually make in terms of those tough choices we know are coming up for the budget

But yes, it's been a really interesting conference here. Everybody's pretty happy compared to last year

The mood here last year, James, was pretty dire for the first few days

Then everybody really rallied around Keir Starmer, actually obviously turning against Andy Burnham

when he tried to sort of, you know, argue that there wasn't enough room in the Labour Party for that debate that he wanted to see

And he left conference with his tail between his legs. But 12 months later, he's very much, you know, the king coming back, sort of his coronation, in a sense

and coming back to Liverpool, obviously, where he is from, the north-west

and really, you know, trying to sort of have a bit of a victory lap

And in many ways, it was always going to be a victory lap for him. There was never going to be any dissent

And it's interesting how it's flipped from being a party where everybody was..

Keir Starmer was sort of seen as a little bit of sort of looking at all of his cabinet and his top team

and trying to sort of make them all the stars. Andy Burnham clearly wants the attention to very much be on him and his premiership

And everybody else feels a little bit like a supporting cast this time, a little bit in the same way that you see Nigel Farage and the Reform Party

Nigel is the star of the show. Andy is very much the star of this Labour conference

and going forward he clearly wants to make sure that his leadership, his personality, the way that he connects with voters

which Keir Starmer didn't have, he wants to put that very much at the centrepiece

of what he's doing at this conference here in Liverpool. So two conferences, two years, one year apart

and we've gone, in terms of the leader, we've gone from life support to life affirming

Yeah, definitely. It's like night and day. Like I say, many people were just so depressed here last year

They didn't know, they wanted to get behind Keir Starmer, but they didn't know how

And one person said to me yesterday like if you know by the end of things people just weren listening to Keir Starmer If he been set on fire no one would be listening no one would be paying attention to what he was doing

And actually, I spoke to some MPs who were very, you know, determined to make this conference

basically the reason why they were proving that Andy Burnham and replacing Keir Starmer with him was the right thing to do

And that's what this conference has been about, trying to prove that they made the right decision

and that this sort of bloodless coup in the end has been quite smooth

Businesses really want to see that stability now and Andy Burnham ruling out that election until 2029

whether it'll last or not, who knows. But they've been really keen to say, look, we want Andy Burnham to succeed

We want this Labour government to now get on with delivering what they're saying they're going to do

We're eager to hear the budget and members are very much like, yes, we've made the right choice and we've got a fresh start

a fresh attempt to go to the voters with what we're doing. and they really, really hope that it's all going to work out this time

Natasha Clarke, LBC's political editor, live from Liverpool. Safe journey back to the office

Natasha, take care and thank you. Quarter to 12 is the time. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC

I have got, if I say I've got Tom Walker joining me later in the programme

you may need a little bit more information. If I said that Jonathan Pye

the second greatest liberal journalist in this country, is a liberal broadcaster in this country after Simon Marks

I can't. Simon Marks doesn't have any political opinions whatsoever. He's scrupulously, scrupulously impartial

If I said Jonathan Pye was joining me in the next hour of the program

then you may have a slightly better idea of why I'm really looking forward to it. But he is, so you should be

We were going to try and do something. Because I was in his Radio 4 show playing myself

So we're going to try and do something today, but it's not feasible. And it's not the time either for me to share this stuff with you

because Simon Marks is waiting to talk to us about some of the latest shenanigans in US politics

So we must do that. Let's get on with it. Come on. It's 11.46. James O'Brien on LBC

It is 11.49. And just to remind you, or just to put a little flesh on the bones of some of those economic figures

The growth figures released today, revised up by half a percent by the Office of National Statistics, actually means that the United Kingdom has enjoyed the highest growth in the G7 so far this year

It was first in quarter one, second to Canada in quarter two. And then overall, if you tie them both together, the highest GDP per capita also up by half a percent, which I suppose might give Rachel Reeves something of a, I don't know, a kind of retrospective sense of validation or vindication

But of course, what goes up can come down. Simon Marks is here with a variety of insights into the political landscape in the United States of America

But we should begin. We can all sigh a sigh of relief

The threat of AI has been assuaged. It's been completely assuaged. Everything is sorted

Donald Trump had some of his best mates from the AI industry flanking him at the White House yesterday

Flanking him. Flanking him for a big summit meeting. And they have signed what they refer to as an AI self-regulation pact

Hallelujah. I think it's important to underscore that this thing was put together so hastily

that underneath Donald Trump's signature, you can see in the agreement that they signed

that he is described as the president of the United States as opposed to the United States

So they didn't use AI to put the contracts together. Exactly. If they did, they certainly didn't proofread it

before applying ink to it. And they didn't even notice it while sort of tarting it up

No, but A, while signing it, and B, while tarting it up for public relief. Yes, exactly. Yeah, precisely

What a team. And we've seen so many of those examples in the past under this White House

But basically, and what should worry us all gravely, I think, is that they have agreed that this is a morally binding self-regulation pact

The industry is going to regulate itself. Donald Trump, of course, says you just need love to make sure that AI is not going to destroy humanity

And as he put it yesterday, this. He said yesterday, you need a bit of this, pointing his finger at his brain

and then, of course, he was asked by a reporter in the room

an extremely apposite and unaddressed question. Who should be held accountable when the AI agents

committed a crime like that? It's not AI, it's SI. That's the other thing. We've changed the name officially today

We've changed the name, Steve, officially to SI. Okay? SI, like SI, SI, instead of AI

You know what that means? Super intelligence. So the name, I guess that's really quite an announcement

but the name has been officially changed by the biggest, the smartest

the greatest people anywhere in the world at this. And I was with President Xi a few days ago, and he would admit

he said these are the smartest people in the world at what they do

and it's a big thing. But it's been officially changed to superintelligence or SI

So everything's going to be absolutely fine. And we never got an answer, of course, to the question about what happens if the AI module engines engage in unaccountable activities

This on the day, by the way, that the Financial Times is reporting, saw Anthropic formally warning investors that its technology may pose existential risks to humanity

No, no, no, no, no. You don't need to worry about that. No, no. It's SI now

It's SI. It's SI. So everyone relax. So we never got an answer to it. But look, I mean, this is coming from the president of the United States who says he doesn't need international law because he'll be guided by his own moral conscience

And he doesn't need anything in the way of AI regulation because this is going to be a morally binding agreement

And it is literally marking your own homework. Correct. Absolutely. Totally. And very uncomfortable moments, I thought, yesterday in the White House driveway there outside as they held that little impromptu news conference

with Mark Zuckerberg and Jensen Wang and all of these AI tech behemoths

really kind of yucking it up and whispering in Donald Trump's ear from time to time

The only one who once again sounded any note of alarm was Dario Omidai from Anthropic

who said, everybody is going to win, which of course is President Trump's line by this

but we do have to be very careful and responsible in dealing with this technology. It was notable that every single one of them yesterday, including the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Mike Johnson, started talking about SI super intelligence

That's the way the US government officially now is going to refer to it. He thinks changing the name somehow reduces the unpopularity of it because AI, he says, implies artificial, meaning that it's fake intelligence and it's not fake intelligence

I mean, it's all just madness. Do you remember when the Emperor's New Clothes was a sort of fairy tale as opposed to a news bulletin

Unbelievable. What's next? Well, let's go to the Senate. I say what's next. I mean, we could carry on forever

We could. Talking about this because, you know, what's the thought that pops into your head

I'm thinking, you know, cognitive decline, Joe Biden. Thank God we dodged that bullet. We didn't have

I've got a president who's suffering from cognitive decline, which people were worried about

You think about the importance of having critical friends, someone in the room with you

who would whisper in the days of ancient Rome, memento mori, remember you were mortal in your ear

He's come up with this idea, he's told the other most powerful people in the country, arguably on the planet

we're going to call it super intelligence, and not one of them has got the cojones to turn around and say

even if you wanted to do it politely or diplomatically, not one of them will turn around and say

that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Well, speaking about friends who may have to speak truth to power

I mean, I think there's questions for our government here. Because Lisa Nandy was saying in Liverpool there yesterday

they're going to be much more muscular now and aggressive in going after tech firms that are running social media companies

and presumably, therefore, also on the issue of AI. I mean, at what point is the British government going to speak truth to power and say to President Trump, one, we're absolutely not calling it super intelligence

And by the way, he's going to try and force people to do that at the G20 summit that he's hosting in Florida later this year

You know, there's going to be reference to SI in any communique coming out of that

But number two, also, we're not particularly satisfied that self-regulation, this self-regulation pact is going to cut the mustard

No. I mean, self-regulation historically has often involved no regulation whatsoever. But we are where we are

Now, this business in the Senate, I'm going to betray a confidence here. Because you think it might be a little bit too niche

Whereas I have more faith in you than you have in yourself. Because I know, because there's only one Cy on this show

That's Cy Marks. I know that you can make this story sing

Well, I'll give it a whirl. It's a political faux pas of such extraordinary crassness that, A, it deserves a wider audience, and B, it could perhaps only really happen in the context of what we've just been talking about, because, you know, the fish rots from the head down

Yes. So Trump behaving like this just lowers the bar below the floor, even for his, you know, closest allies who might once have been half-decent politicians

Well, so one of his closest allies is Senator Eric Schmidt of Missouri, who yesterday at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing went after Jack Smith

Jack Smith, you will remember, is the special prosecutor appointed by Merrick Garland, the attorney general under Joe Biden, to investigate Donald Trump over 2020 election interference

And Mr. Senator Schmidt yesterday thought that he had absolutely upended Jack Smith because he claimed to have found evidence that Mr. Smith may have been colluding with top Democrats in Atlanta, including the district attorney there, Fannie Willis, who were also digging and digging and unearthing evidence of Donald Trump's election interference

So this is what happened first in that Senate Judiciary hearing yesterday

Did you go to an NBA game between the Golden State Warriors and the Atlanta Hawks on February 3rd, 2024

I'm sorry, could you say that again? Did you go to an NBA game between the Golden State Warriors and the Atlanta Hawks on February 3rd, 2024

What city would that be in? Atlanta. No. Okay. Let me just give you a little context

The day before Fannie Willis came clean with her affair with the prosecutor

you know the Atlanta prosecutor that was also trying to get Trump, the next day were you in Atlanta

I do not believe so. Did you ever go to Atlanta during your time as special counsel

I do not have a recollection of going to Atlanta. I definitely did not go to a Hawks game

I'm sure of that. I don't think you know that we have this stuff. So I'll give you a second to process it

so you don't perjure yourself? You just took it down really quick

If I could look at that again. Okay. Mr. Chairman, can we give the witness a copy

so he can see what's being read to him? We'll put it in a follow-up. You can respond

I think you've already perjured yourself. You've done so much damage. As a former prosecutor, I can say there's so much damage

the trust and faith people have in our system. You have weaponized the Department of Justice

against political enemies to an extent that has never happened in the history of this country

you will go down as a total dirtbag. This is important on a whole bunch of levels

Because, well, first of all, on a kind of public speaking level, you can hear a little swallow there

Because he's gone immediately for the jugular. He's finally realized what an epic mistake he's made, right

So he's attacking, do you think? Well, I don't think he has at that point. But he's gone if you could, okay, go on

So what people couldn't see, if they're just listening, is that they held up proof. Very briefly, they held up an exchange of text messages

Proving that this guy had been in Atlanta. and then they took it down again incredibly quickly

and said, well, you can have a look. He thinks he's Perry Mason. It's his Perry Mason moment, absolutely

We'll let you see it later on. You've perjured yourself. You're an absolute dirtbag

So then it is the chance of a Democrat on the committee, Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota

to begin questioning, and she says, hang on just a minute. Can we have another look, please

at this card that you put up with the text messages on? and the card is held up for longer

And at that point, Jack Smith, the accused in this scenario, makes a request

Can the witness be allowed to comment now that he can see the chart? Yes, Mr. Smith, please address it

Just very briefly, if this is the correct basketball game, I recall going to a University of Maryland basketball game

where Caitlin Clark was playing right around that time. And the Marshal Service was there with me

You could check if that was the exact date. It was Maryland playing Iowa, I think, February of 2024

But again, you could check that out if that's what we're talking about

Is it the Hawkeyes? Yes. Could it then be that University of Iowa is the Hawkeyes

Could that be it? And maybe before we show this kind of thing

That might be the confusion over the names of the team, but perhaps you should have looked at it more carefully

She's addressing that final comment, of course, to Senator Schmidt, the Republican

So here's the deal. In Atlanta, where Senator Schmidt claimed Jack Smith had gone to collude with Democrats in their efforts to try and find dirt on Donald Trump and the 2020 election

In Atlanta, the NBA team is called the Hawks. But in Maryland, where Jack Smith actually travelled

the basketball team, a women's basketball team, they're called the Hawkeyes. And so Schmidt had created this entire narrative

based around the falsehood that Jack Smith had travelled to Atlanta to watch the Hawks

and he must have been talking to Fanny Willis and the Democrats in Atlanta

And colluding in attempts to bring down Donald Trump. You're conjuring yourself, you're a dirtbag

And then within seconds of that testimony, when they finally get all of them a chance actually to see the quote-unquote evidence

we discover that Mr Smith, in fact, had gone to see a completely different basketball team

in a totally different part of the country and suddenly the Perry Mason moment absolutely evaporated in front of his eyes About 700 miles away Six 700 miles miles away Yeah at least I love it and to knit the two things together AI as I going to very rebelliously

insist on calling it and the 2020 election result if you ask

Donald Trump's new platform no no go on you ask him who won

the election you ask the new Donald Trump White House platform AI platform

AI driven AI driven platform who won the election in 2020 they'll tell you the truth

Yes, they will. They won't say Donald Trump. Absolutely. Now, one has to wonder if that's being, if that algorithm is being adjusted

It's just incredible. We can't really squeeze anything else in. I stand by my decision that that deserves the wider right

It's good stuff. It's fantastic stuff. The Perry Mason thing. Well, it is

Literally, he thinks he's about to pull something out. Because these people are, they're all craven now

And it speaks, exactly. And they're all compromised. And they're all morally corrupted. It speaks to the polluting aspect of what has happened throughout the US government at lower levels as a result of the highest level engaging in fact-free commentary on everything that's taking place, by the way, even including possibly RAF Fairford

We now know after the Trump and Rubio comments on that, who knows what they were talking about

You shoot from the hip, you engage in scorched earth attacks all the time, and then you worry about the actual facts and the details later

On this particular occasion, Senator Schmidt was literally undressed publicly by Senator Klobuchar and shown that he had rushed to judgment on totally false facts

And we've got to go to the news. But, of course, it doesn't matter because the only thing that matters is being in or out of favor with Donald Trump

So the truth doesn't matter. The voters don't matter. Nothing matters. Reality doesn't matter

Public humiliation doesn't matter. All of it can be dealt with because Donald Trump will just say, well, it's not called humiliation anymore

It's called validation. Absolutely. It's coming up to 12.05. Thank you, Simon Marks

Seven minutes after 12 is the time. I locked the studio doors. It struck me that we'd already crashed through the news like an out-of-control pantechnicum

But Simon Marks had actually got some more to say. So it struck me that we should just let him say it

It's not really a normal day. It's all about conference and Burnham's speech

So what else is in your little bag of tricks? Well, I think we should talk about Donald Trump's new TV ads

I think we should as well. We are 33 days from the midterm elections

33 days from what looks like it's going to be an absolute drubbing of the Republicans

The Democrats are definitely going to win control of the House of Representatives

They may even prize control of the Senate out of Republican hands

And so the President of the United States has decided that he's going to drench the airwaves with some ads all about him

And this is causing a tremendous degree of disquiet, including in Republican circles

But let's start by listening to the ad. This is the final battle. With you at my side, we will demolish the deep state

We will expel the warmongers from our government. We will drive out the globalists

We will cast out the communists, Marxists and fascists. We will throw off the sick political class that hates our country

We will rout the fake news media and we will liberate America from these villains once and for all

Now, you may think, what's the problem there? It's obviously a political ad

American elections are no stranger to TV ads. The airwaves are absolutely soaked with them every two years as we go through the various election cycles

So here's the problem. When you get to the end of that ad, at the bottom of the screen, in small lettering, it says paid for by the US government, not paid for by the Republican National Committee, not paid for by any particular campaign or political action committee paid for by the US government, which means American taxpayer dollars are being spent on the production of that ad

And then the placing of it, because obviously they've got to buy airtime from all of the TV stations where they're running it, as this ad, which is obviously avowedly political in nature, plays out in an effort to try and energise Republican voters to show up at the polls for their lawmakers and candidates seeking election to the House of Representatives and the Senate

The White House says it's not political at all. There's nothing to see here. It's just a public service announcement

It's simply the president of the United States reminding Americans of why they should be proud of their country

Now, I've lived there a long time. Public service announcements paid for by the US government are usually the things that tell you that you mustn't forget to get a hurricane preparedness kit ready in hurricane season

or file your taxes. In the old days, they might have reminded you

to get your kids vaccinated in a public service announcement campaign. Those are PSAs

and are obviously paid for by American taxpayers. That kind of avowedly political advertisement

is not what taxpayer money is supposed to be spent on. And even some Republicans are concerned about this

accusing Donald Trump, if not necessarily breaking the actual law on what taxpayer money can be spent on in political advertising

certainly breaking the spirit of it. Take a listen to Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana

There has rarely been a Trump pronouncement or Trump policy that Senator Kennedy has not loved

But he thinks that the ads absolutely stink. I don't think any public official, including President Trump, should spend public money on private ads for themselves

Now, the White House sees it differently. But I think there ought to be a rule that you can't

Well, there probably is a rule. You can't spend public money to promote yourself

Spoiler alert, there is a rule. There is a rule, precisely. I mean, who knew

A law, to be present. He actually goes further as well and says that he also believes that there should be a federal law passed to prevent living presidents from naming things after themselves

So and the interesting point about this is that Senator Kennedy has been fused at the hit with Donald Trump since this administration, you know, since the Trump administration came back to power in January of last year

And the fact that he, speaking there on CBS over the weekend, is basically saying we shouldn't really be doing this, this is not on, is a fresh indication that increasingly senior figures within Donald Trump's Republican Party are now getting braver with breaking with him

Many of them on the campaign trail are doing it. Because they know what's coming. Yes, and they're worried that he's a complete break on their efforts to try and win these midterm elections

It way too late We had Republican candidates last week saying we need an embargo on diesel exports a congresswoman down in Florida criticising Trump over the mass deportations because she can see that she running into difficulty trying to get re in Miami

The Republican candidate for governor in Florida, Byron Donalds, last week removed

virtually every reference to Donald Trump on his website. His number one priority, last week

it said his number one priority was to enact the Trump agenda

Now what's his number one priority? Dealing with the country's affordability crisis

Funny, isn't it? The affordability crisis that Donald Trump denies his war on Iran has created

It's all Volodymyr Zelensky's fault. 80 days, is it? No, 30-something days

What did I say? 33 days. And, I mean, if he gets absolutely spanked

that seems quite possible, what happens then? Well, I don't know. I mean, you know, does he do a Viktor Orban and simply accept it and not be particularly worried about it on the basis that he's not had very much use for Congress since he returned to power in January of last year

Yeah, he could lose both. Does he just continue acting erratically and aggressively on a whole variety of different subject areas, basically continuing to bypass Congress

What will that mean? In a way, the bigger question, James, is what are the Democrats going to do? Are they going to launch impeachment investigations

They've got no chance of getting him convicted in an impeachment trial because they never get two thirds of the vote in the Senate

So do they waste their time? Some people would argue it would be engaging in fresh impeachment investigations

investigations, do they at least drag people like, for example, Pete Hegseth or Pam Bondi

the former attorney general, before their committees and hold them to account and threaten

maybe to impeach some of them. It certainly would become a much tougher environment

but that all presumes that Trump accepts it. Victor Orban style. He's got voices in his ear

The Atlantic magazine last week reporting that some of his advisers are telling him he needs to

be prepared to declare martial law, by which they basically mean a national security emergency

and battle the outcome of an election that he will argue is rigged and part and parcel of his

attacks on election integrity. So I don't know. It's going to be a really febrile moment for

American democracy. If only there was some way of establishing how he, Donald Trump, feels about

the prospect of violence being deployed by his supporters to uphold a false narrative about an

election that he actually lost. Then we might have a guide. We might have a guide and an indication

of how worried we should actually be. Gosh. Simon, lovely stuff. Thank you very much indeed. I just worry

that for people who are enjoying this on the radio rather than people

who are enjoying it on YouTube later where you enjoy enormous popularity, your contributors

contributions to this program almost by definition go viral. Partly as we've discussed together

before because the American media is still not really rising to all of the challenges

that are set by the madness that we discussed together. They would have only heard the audio of the Donald Trump advert

They wouldn't actually have seen the footage. So I'm going to do, for the benefit of the tape

I'm going to do it for the benefit of the radio. I'm going to do an audio. An audio description

Yeah. So can we play it again, the advert of Donald Trump

What number clip was that? Can we remember? Are we good to go

So here it is, okay. This is the final battle. Donald Trump, with a very sort of slightly strange face

is staring in a menacing fashion at the camera and not speaking

He's just looking very tired and old and walking towards the camera

as this nonsense plays out in the background. And that, it is believed, is likely to inspire American voters

to go to the ballot box in their droves and vote for the man who's definitely not a warmonger

That was very good. Thank you very much. Nailed it. Yeah. I'm here all week

James O'Brien on LBC. 30 minutes after 12 is the time. So there's a song by the Danish artist, Lucas Graham

called You're Not There. And if I start telling you why I love that song so much

I will get emotional. I will actually begin to feel the pricking of tears behind my eyes

And depending on the context, If I'm in a room full of people, then those tears may actually force their way through to the front of my eyes because it's a song about a son who really misses his dead father

And I don't think it's unique to sons, by the way. It's just that that's what the song is about

And I don't think it's unique to mothers either. But I haven't lost my mother. And therefore, I can't comment

But this song reaches parts, for me at least, that other songs have never reached

And oddly, I don't know whether it's something that it does to your face or something that it does to your voice

When Andy Burnham went quiet yesterday and we were all in the office and I was trying to write an article that was not really an article I could file until I'd finished, until the speech had actually finished

And so I'm so distracted. I didn't even notice that he'd nicked my line about the Monopoly board

Did I mention that he'd nicked my line about the Monopoly board? No, too self-indulgent

I'll just let that pass. No one wants to hear about that. I didn't even notice that

And it's actually the introduction of the column I wrote for the I today. So stylistically a little awkward

But I knew he was about to start talking about his dad

I could have told you. You'd offered me a £1,000 bet at that moment

Why has he gone all quiet? He's about to start talking about his dad

And I don't think it makes that much difference. I wonder what you think about this if you've been through similar

And remember, it's luck. We're talking about being lucky enough to have a deeply loving father who you've lost

And it's an enormously lucky thing that it's a massive blessing. And it's not one that you should take for granted if he's still alive

And it's certainly not one that you think should apply or does apply to everybody because it doesn't

I knew what was coming. And I don't think 10 years from now it would necessarily be any different for Andy Burnham or 14 years in my case

I don't think it would necessarily be any different. I think there's something about that part of your heart

that is occupied by your dad that never gets vacated again when he's gone

He's there. And that's why I knew, I knew that this is what was happening

I will fight hard for what I believe to be right and what I believe

to be in the best interests of this country. Thank you. And that was it That was the precursor to him bringing his dad into the conversation and and the reason why i not actually welling up now as i recommend that song to you and i think

about my old man is i'm not ambushing myself you you ambush yourself in these scenarios

so strange here he is a little later on um talking a little more about his old man

The United Kingdom my dad represented is the one I believe in

A union of nations that gave trade unions and the cooperative movement to the world

The National Health Service, a country that stood up to fascism, a country of solidarity, not separation

That's the Britain that my dad represented. I love that. I absolutely love that moment. And I love it for a whole bunch of reasons, not just because it tallies very tightly with my personal politics and indeed my late father's politics as well

But I love it because you can hear him drawing strength from the man who's not there, to paraphrase that song lyric by Lucas Graham, which I'm not going to make any apology for plugging, by the way

if you listen to it, you'll know why I have. But he's drawing strength from the man who's not in the room

but is in the room with him. You can hear it. Let's listen to that one again, because you can hear him move from the emotion

the fragility where he's teetering on the edge, almost of sobbing. And the reason why you had that long pause in the previous clip

was because he would have sobbed if he tried to speak. He'd have sobbed. Nothing wrong with that, but he obviously didn't want to

Who does? But listen to the second clip, and listen to the movement

This is magical, this. The United Kingdom my dad represented is the one I believe in

a union of nations that gave trade unions and the co-operative movement to the world

the National Health Service, a country that stood up to fascism, a country of solidarity, not separation

That's the Britain that my dad represented. That movement from the fragility to the actual exhortation, the call to arms

Look, it was written in advance, of course it was, but what was not written in advance or planned in advance

was the emotional journey from fragility and vulnerability to strength and passion

And I just absolutely love that moment. I don't remember witnessing a political moment like it

not in my puff. And I want to talk about that. I want to talk about

how important the emotion was to you because I was really taken by surprise

And you try and think of other examples. I remember Theresa May getting a little bit tearful

when she was, oh, country I love. Margaret Thatcher having tears in her eyes

when she left Downing Street for the final time. But they were tears in both cases

of self-pity, weren't they? I think they were. Maybe I'm being a little bit unfair

on either or both women. But I don't know what that emotion represents. The fact that he has planted the roots of his politics deep in the soil of his personal history and managed to communicate it in ways that simply telling us that your dad was a garden, a bus conductor in John Major's case or a bus driver in Sadiq Khan's or a toolmaker in Keir Starmer's or a grocer in Margaret Thatcher's

it landed in ways that I've never really witnessed the political speech land before

We've talked about the content. We've talked about the detail. I don't actually know what the question is here

but I know what the answers will sound like. So it's really an examination of, I think, 10 years ago

certainly 20 years ago when I was starting out in this job, I might have actually had a conversation about how do we feel about a man crying

How do we feel about that? Is it a sign of weakness or is it a sign of strength? I think those conversations are ridiculous now

But why does the emotion matter so much? Why do the tears matter so much

What was it about the emotional heft of that speech that moved you so much

No, wrong question. What was it about the emotions on display in that speech that made it all feel so very, very different

0345 6060 973. How emotional did Andy Burnham's emotions make you? Jane's in the town where it happened

She's in Liverpool. Jane, what would you like to say? Hi, Jane. It's lovely to speak to you

Yeah, it made me very emotional, actually. That moment made me particularly emotional because I'm also a member of the I lost a dad I admired club and

And his emotions spoke to me, but I think the thing that ultimately

Moved me maybe even more was the reaction of the crowd. Come on

There's an awful lot of cynicism in and around politics and we're all the same and all that

Yes, that's it, you've done it. The crowd did not react to his emotion in a cynical way

They clapped and they read what you read. They knew what was coming next

And they clapped and they applauded him and a few people shouted, you know, you can do it, Andy, come on

And that really moved me. Those people being there for him. And those particular people in a way

politics people who are meant to be all the same, you know. So those people being there for him in that moment like that

and supporting him in that way, that really moved me. And it moved him as well

And that really spoke to me. You smashed it there. That's exactly what it is

It's the currency of authenticity. As I tried to say earlier, and I think this is relevant

that empathy is a two-way street. And you've just articulated that so beautifully

because he can demonstrate empathy, and he does. but what that bit of the speech did

was invite empathy back from the crowd and you have to be and it's not

fair because people could be completely authentic in their emotions but they

are not going to push the buttons that Andy Burnham pushed yesterday and that's just not

fair it's like some people are good at taking free kicks some people are good at

you know maths he is good at emotional literacy good at articulating his emotions and that

prompts an outpouring of empathy heading back to the stage from the crowd and that that actually speaks to the sincerity that he was so keen to

establish i will be honest with you i will be honest and and that was a moment of almost

undiluted honesty wasn't it yeah it was absolutely i think that in a way is his political superpower

he doesn't just ask for empathy he invites it back he makes you want to give it back to him

and one of the things i took away from that to be just say oh i admired his optimism so much

it meant a lot to me that's why because he meant it and they've all said it they can all talk about

hope and they can all talk about um you know values and they can all talk but it always sounds

as if they're doing it by focus group and that's what he managed to shed yesterday was any sense

whatsoever that he was not speaking directly from the heart and at those moments when his dad was on

the um agenda it's It was absolutely directly from the heart. Yeah, absolutely

And one of the things that sort of inspired in me was the thing you talked about earlier

It's like, you know people are going to come for him for that. They're going to use it as a stick to beat the whole speech

I wonder. But it made me feel that I need now to be one of those people who stands up and has his back

because he put himself out there to be attacked in what he said

Yes, and you're right, actually. And because they didn't pick up on it in the words, I don't think

but the Daily Mail would have spent a long time, the weird repressed men that run the Daily Mail

would have spent a long time picking this picture that they've put on the front page today

and it's the one that they think makes him look weak. It's the one that they think makes him look un-prime ministerial

These, remember, are people that thought Boris Johnson was the real deal and actually rewarded him with a massive column on the newspaper

long after he'd left Parliament in absolute and abject disgrace. So they've gone for the picture they think these weird, sad, repressed men

who spend their lives being called hideous names by their bosses and screamed at in newsrooms that haven't never left the 1970s

They've gone for the picture of him looking tearful because they think it makes him look bad

Ah, lads. Ah, lads. it really doesn't coming up next we're going to drive a coach

and horses through the soppy emotion that we're currently enjoying because Tom Walker

aka Jonathan Pye will be joining us to talk us through what he's up

to and how on earth satirists survive in a world, well certainly on the other

side of the Atlantic, is far madder than any comedian could imagine

but first Amelia Cox has your headlines James O'Brien on LBC It's 12.35, you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC

where we are joined in the studio by a man widely regarded, or at least a face widely regarded

as belonging to the second most talented political broadcaster in the country

I speak of Jonathan Pye, but you're not in character today, Tom

No, no, no, no, I'm my normal, actual cheery self. You're very cheerful today, James

I don't know. It's a... Uncharacteristically... It's relative, Jonathan. Tommy, but it's relative, isn't it

The cheerfulness. But you're back on the road. The End of the World, according to Jonathan Pyle, is up and running

Yeah, it's a nice, cheery title. I'm sort of three weeks in. It's the title of my next book, I think

I'm three weeks in, so the show's settled. It's going down really well. I'm really happy with it

It was weird. When I first chose that title, I thought, let's go sort of something overtly pessimistic

almost ridiculously so. And then as I was writing it, Trump threatened to annihilate an entire civilization overnight

And I thought, actually, maybe this isn't hard enough. How hard is it to do that

I mean, because the world has moved so fast in recent years

You sit down to write something in, you know, the beginning of a month

And by the end of it, as you say, there could be sort of bombs going off in Tehran

You go, you try and future proof it, I think. So you try and pick some subjects that should be evergreen for a couple of years

And what you kind of do, as long as you've got the structure of the show right, you can sort of almost hang on a little set piece about Labour

and you can take that off and replace it with another one. So as long as structurally there's something there

there's a beginning, a middle and end. But yeah, I mean, the first show I ever did was all about David Cameron and George Osborne

And then one day we voted to leave the EU. The day after we voted to leave the EU

I looked through the script and about a third of the script was gone overnight

So that was a lesson learnt. So I try and make it about more universal things than rather the minutiae, I always say, of Westminster

Everyone knows what you mean. Well, for people who aren't familiar with your work, and there can't be many

I mean, your sort of combination of long form and the shorter clips, the rants

as people, I think, very unfairly call political commentary sometimes. Mine's definitely a rant

Mine's definitely a rant. Emotional articulation. How did it all begin? because you went to drama school

and I know you spent some time working in London at Foyle's bookshop. Presumably

when you were a younger man you never thought that this would be

the path that you would go down. No, I always wanted to play Hamlet

at the RSC and that sort of thing. Well, I'm not sure about that. Play the Dane

But I think when you're in your 20s you have these rather pretentious notions of perhaps, you know, that's ambition, isn't it

But yeah, no, I certainly never I accidentally became a satirist and a comedian

After 20 years of nothing, I started writing my own stuff. I'd always had this character of

a news reporter. What do they say between takes? The politics was kind of secondary

but I realised it was the politics that was the hook. So that's just

kind of how it happened. One day I did one video and it got a million views

and I realised a door had opened for me. And ten years later, I'm still rinsing

it. But it's a very different discipline doing a, I mean although it's always very tight

a full stage show, because it's a very different proposition from how you start it out. Yeah, particularly this time I'm doing

both halves, normally I have a warm up act so it's, you know, an hour and three quarters of

a monologue, really but what's, to a certain extent it's easier. It's all, just an hour

and three quarters of a monologue we a lightweight mate Yeah but you making this up as you go along mate you know what I mean I have to learn that It bigger than Hamlet mate So in a way I am You know it better than the Dane really It got all the lines

All the lines. What was the question? It's a very different discipline

doing a massive show like that. It is, but somehow it's kind of weirdly easier

to write in some respects because you can dive in a bit more. When you've got

three, four minutes, it has to be a simplified version. Also there's a different contract

you have with the audience. I know that people can accidentally come across my stuff

online and therefore there's not a... Whereas an audience that's paid some money

to sit there for a couple of hours, that's a different contract you have with them. You can play

with their sensibilities a bit more. You can annoy them a bit more

So I feel that it's a lot more freeing when you can write long form rather than

a three minute thing that could be taken out of context that is, you know, an

online... So you're opening yourself up for argument an insult when it's online

One of the things I've enjoyed the most, as Jonathan has developed, is the insights that you give in

to his life behind the scenes. Again, that probably wasn't something you were ever expecting to be doing

when you first started recording The Rants, as it were. No, not really. But the sort of family breakdown

Yeah, yeah. Again, you can sort of explore that a bit more with the thing that I did for BBC Sounds

which was like a little sitcom for a couple of series. And then, yeah

the thing is with a long show, you want to explain why he's there

And I always have this rule that he has to leave the stage in a different state to how he entered

So something has to happen to him on that stage. And by virtue of that, yeah, you do dive into his backstory

And why is he really angry? Is he really angry at Nigel Farage or is he angry at the fact that his wife's got the kids

You know, and I think it's a little bit of both, really. And so where is he now career-wise

Well, what's interesting, well, yes, so he had a stint at the BBC. and then he moved to GB News

but he only lasted three days before he called one of his colleagues

a word that, you know, clearly can't broadcast. So now he's actually, you know, he's presenting

he's shilling for an AI company. Is he? And sort of, so that's where he's at

So the self-loathing is on the up a bit. It is on the up. What's interesting this time round, as I've got older

I think you get a little bit less angry. It's less righteous anger, and it's more sort of just resigned indignation

So I think it weirdly, it's my least angry show, but it's the most sort of mildly depressing

in hopefully quite a funny way, but I think he's depressed rather than angry. And people enjoy the colour, the nuance

Yes. Because, of course, to sit there being shouted at for an hour and 45 minutes

is not really going to be much fun for anybody. I think that my first couple of shows were very much that

Right. Certainly my first show was an hour and ten of me screaming at the Tories and it was all one

note and it was sort of impressive in its own way. No, this has much more

light and dark. I think it's sort of my funniest show but also there are bits of it that you go

because the last time I did a show it was just before an election and it was

an hour and twenty of low hanging fruit of get these Tory

people out. The world's a lot more complicated in the last two and a half years, you know. The far right

are literally on the rise. They're on the march in Germany. You know what I mean

That's got to be awarded. And, you know, AI, that wasn't a thing really two or three years ago

So there are this end of the world. It does feel like we're entering, he says, at the end

It might not be the end of the world as we know it, but it feels like it might be the end of humanity as we know it, you know

Yes, on that cheerful note. The other element of it that people who haven't been to see

a sort of full-length live show will probably be slightly taken about by

is that it is, as you've said, it's just you. It is entirely you for the entire duration

I saw the last show and I loved it, as you know

and I'm looking forward to seeing this one. I'm going to be at Hammersmith. When's the Hammersmith? 30th and 31st, so Halloween

if you don't want to stay in with all those trick-or-treaters. I'm looking forward to that

Do you, when the news breaks, when news happens, because I suffer from this a bit

I can't separate the job from the personal, and I sort of think, well, that's absolutely terrible

but it's going to be very good for business. No, I don't really

A lot of people said to me after Labour got in, well, I mean, what are you going to do now

And also, like, what if Trump... I'd much rather Trump hadn't won the last election

than me having... And I had less material. So in a way, I can kind of separate that out

to a certain extent. It is when something happens that fundamentally changes the show

That's annoying. You go, oh, something really awful's happened, and it's going to make my day really stressful

Yeah, so that can happen. And what about one of my favourite lines from one of my favourite comics

Peter Cook, commenting back in the day on how those wonderful, because you've mentioned Germany, how those wonderful Berlin cabarets

did so much to stop the rise of Hitler and prevent the outbreak of the Second World War

Do you ever have feelings of impotence? No, because I've never been under the illusion

that I'm changing hearts and minds and that I'm changing the world, I think there's a catharsis to satire

And coming to watch me rant and rage for an hour and a half

it might not change the world, but it does make you feel better that you're not alone

I think it can literally be that simple. And also if I can put across an idea that fairly terrifying but at the same time get an emotional reaction out of you that isn depression it actually a laugh well that in itself is quite cathartic as well Reading tonight Salisbury tomorrow Bristol on Friday and Saturday

Oxford, Bournemouth, up and down, Leicester, Wolverhampton, Burma. You can find it

It's all on your own website, of course, at jonathanpye.com. Before you go, can I ask some professional advice about something

Yes, of course. So I just wonder what the etiquette is in your world when it comes to people nicking material

Because this has happened to me quite recently. Just have a little listen to this

Now, why are utilities important? Why do utilities have their own category on a monopoly board

And the reason why utilities are important, very simply, is because they are absolutely essential to the safe and healthy running of a country

so that that's me i'm talking about why you can't put houses and hotels on yeah the utility

companies on and now have a have a little listen to this as someone said to me recently there's a

reason why you can't build all over the waterworks and the electric company on the monopoly board

listen to that laughter tom i know that's my laughter right i mean he did deliver it better

well that wasn't the clip I'd have used but also it's like

I was talking to a bloke recently, no he was listening to LBC, that's all that is

thank you, Tom Walker, suing live on stage across the country between now and Christmas or are you not

up to December the 1st and you can find out where to get your tickets at jonathanpie.com

some of the nights are sold out, some are still got a few tickets left so go there

and he'll be near you, he will almost certainly look in at the list and as you're heading north after you've finished in the Midlands

and then back down to Coventry, closing in Nottingham. Is it closing in Nottingham

It is closing Nottingham. Lovely stuff. It's always good to see you, man. Thank you so much for having me

Absolute pleasure. It is 12.47. James O'Brien on LBC. It's ten to one

I've got two messages suggesting I might have got that Monopoly idea off a caller

I'm pretty sure I didn't, but then we've been here before. I think on Mystery Hour last week

I thought that I remembered something from my days in menswear and it turned out that I actually remembered it from a month ago on Mystery Hour

It's the thing about why the bottom button on your shirt is horizontal

So I may have to deploy AI once again to see whether or not that was genuine

I'm complaining about Andy Burnham nicking it off me when I nicked it off someone else

I'm not sure. I'm going to read this, mate, because it got me

And I'm so moved to read it from Russell, who says, Hi, James, I met you on Lewis Station platform a few years back

I lost my dad, Arthur, last Thursday after a three-year battle with motor neurone disease

I found Andy Burnham's speech incredibly emotional. I'm too upset to ring in today, but I'm now in that club that I never wanted to join

Thank you for the song recommendation. Thank you for the message, Arsene

Thank you for the reminder, actually, that there's some extraordinary footage, speaking of MND, motor neurone disease

He's Rob Burroughs, little boy, scoring a try in a fundraising match for that charity, for the MND charity

One of the loveliest things I've seen. And the song recommendation a lot of you have asked me, and I don't do this very often because I am not that kind of radio presenter

But it is a song that just gets me every single time

And indeed, all these years later, it's called You're Not There by Lucas Graham, the Danish band

And you'll probably know them best for seven years. When I was seven years old

But he's brilliant, I think, an absolute genius. I'm always trying to persuade some of the other presenters here

who've got music shows to play more Lucas Graham because I love them

But that song, You're Not There, if you are like Russell or indeed me or Andy Burnham, that song will just absolutely..

Well, it will break you and it will also provide enormous comfort. And that's why we have been talking in this hour

about the emotional heft of what happened on stage, both to Andy Burnham and as a consequence of that to the rest of us

Scott's in Birmingham. Scott, what made you pick up the phone? Hi, James. Just before I say anything else

did you hear that Andy Burnham nipped your line on the screen? You may not have caught that, mate, but he nicked one of your lines

Well spotted, Sherlock. Nice one. Thanks for the heads up. Seriously, I'll just leave it, though

Because that's, you know, that's just the way it goes. No, don't leave it. No, it's just the way

I don't want to make a big deal out of it. That's just the way it goes. Going on stage, being all honest and vulnerable

What's wrong with the man? It's very true. All joking aside, I watched a lot of his conference speech

Yeah. And when he started talking, I thought, this is good. And I thought, all those warm feelings

and you know somebody saying something very honest about themselves. But like you, it all went quiet

And you can actually hear in his voice sniffing. So I was doing some stuff on my laptop

And then it went quiet. It's like that TV advert for a certain car company where there's no music or anything

But what's going on here? And then I was like you. He's going to talk about his dad. And there was a very, very slight facial expression and mannerism before he started

I lost my dad in April. And the times... Yeah. And I don't know

if you felt the same when there's some days you'd even been a grown bloke. You feel like little boy

lost in some scenario. You're standing there thinking, you know what the hell am I going to do now And it was almost he had that hand on his shoulder saying come on son this is your time You know you got this And he went into that part of the speech

And then when his voice cracked, you played the order earlier. I thought, bloody gone on you, mate

For all the politicians that have stood there over the years at party conferences, especially at Labour

and my dad was a Labour supporter. You know, he actually was a toolmaker

And he used to say, bloody old kiss, so I was going to offer one again. and he used to say that

and it was what I couldn't get over was that he laid himself bare

no politician from what I see Maggie Thatcher Theresa May yes I'm sure

Mrs Thatcher was was very emotional about leaving but I agree with you some of that self pity

but for him he's done nothing yet in 10 weeks he's got to start

on a baseline a build on it and like you said he's got some mountains

to climb you've got to be braver to have a go at it and fall down than you have not doing it and say that you can't do it in the first place

But I just went, I felt that how he felt, and I just went, bloody gun on you, mate

You can carry on doing it. And he put it all out there, didn't he? He did. It's a weird one, that, because it's been an age of tiptoeing around

apart from the populists who kind of aren't honest or authentic but will say shocking things

normal politicians or respectable politicians tiptoe around things. They're worried about this and they're worried about that

And there was no danger of him causing offence, but he certainly could have inspired an avalanche of criticism

There's no coincidence that the Daily Mail chose that picture for the front page

and actually you've just completely defused that picture by saying that's what you look like when you're just contemplating the fact

that you haven't got your dad in your corner anymore, not on earth at least

and that is the little boy lost moment that we all go through. Even if we're grisly old gits when we lose our dads

we still feel like little boys lost. We've got to prop our families up when the going gets tough

And I just felt, I hope his kids felt as proud of him as I'm sure that his dad would have been proud of him on that stage

And he did it. Whatever people's political persuasions are, I just felt, you know what, Andy

Go on you, mate. That's beautifully put, Scott. And I'm so sorry for your loss. I really am

But seriously, at least I can say. But I love the way that you've managed to turn it into a universal moment, which, of course, he did as well

And that's the point I'd missed, actually. and that's why they won't know what to do with it

the farrages of this world. They won't know what to do with genuine raw emotion

that could apply to almost everybody, regardless of your politics. Clearly, you're going to have to have a capacity to empathy

that some people don't generally have. The more you have that, the more you will respond to it

But I thought it was very, very special. And weirdly, you look at the two elements of it

the content and the context, the emotion and the principle, or the passion, if you like, and the principle

It would have been pretty impressive if he'd only had one of those two things, but he brought them both to the table

Nice one, Scott. Tom's in Wakefield. Tom, what would you like to say? Hi, James

Good afternoon. Likewise, I'm a member of the Dead Dad Club. I was 23 when I lost my dad about five years ago

Oh, I'm sorry. No, not at all. Likewise, with your previous caller

I was tapping away on the laptop listening to the speech in the background And I heard that moment and that emotion coming through

And having reflected on that, you know, you have sympathy for anybody in that situation

But there was some real humanity there. And I've been a bit disengaged with politics over the last two or three months

especially as a result of all of the flack that the RNLI has been getting. Saving human beings and being abused for it

And I've had to step away from it. And I think if we can see more of that humanity in our politics, we'll be in a much better position in the future than we are now

I think he's aware of that, isn't he? I think, again, subtext is when he used the word patriotism and he used it in the proper sense

He's actually sending out a message to people like you that, you know, this is your politics too

Don't let the field be dominated by the horrors. No, absolutely not

He always gets the flak for saying that his dad was a toolmaker. And I'm constantly going on and back to people

I'm very proud of my dad. He was a coal miner. He was a firefighter at the same time, if you can imagine it

And, you know, we should be... Not literally. No, no. He would come out of the pit on the afternoon and then he was an on-call firefighter

I agree. And that's it. And some people can communicate it and some people can't

And it doesn't matter. Like Scott said just before you, it doesn't matter

what your political affiliations are or anything, some of the stuff cuts through

It's so nice just to be reminded of what the world was like when we all recognized the universal

when we all recognized the rules. Even if we disagreed with each other, we agreed to play to the referee's whistle

or we agreed where the lines were on the side of the pitch. We agreed that there are some things you do

and some things that you don't do. And there are some things that move us all and some things that appall us all

And now everything seems to be up for grabs. Oh, I enjoyed that conversation. Thank you

It is coming up to one o'clock. If you missed any of today's show, you can listen back on our free Global Player app or the LBC app

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So download the official LBC app for free from your app store. Now, coming up at four on LBC, it's Tom Sawbreak

But now it's time for Sheila Fogarty. James O'Brien on LBC