We are trying to figure out what Andy Burnham means | James O’Brien - The Whole Show

it's three minutes after ten a very good morning indeed to you we are once again i don't know how

many years was i on air i suppose probably until 2016 2019 20 yeah um i mean a good decade when

a changing of the guard in number 10 downing street was a really significant moment i was

there when brown replaced blair i wasn't here when blair came into downing street when blair

replaced major and then of course i was here when cameron replaced brown but that's two in ten years

and and almost bookended as well you know of of that decade if you took 22 2006 give or take as

the beginning and 2016 as the end it's almost bookended isn't it and um and now i mean one

loses count of how many times it's happened and is still happening in the in the second decade

of the last two. And I don't know what it all means. I don't know

There's a lot of chatter about whether or not the country has become ungovernable. I'm not entirely convinced by that

I think that there has been a sort of primacy or a rise of misinformation and disinformation

I sometimes forget what the difference is. Which doesn't help people casting votes

People with extremely strong opinions who don't understand anything. Which reminds me

I've got some wonderful news regarding 30p lethal for you. later in the programme today

Do not let me go home without addressing that and sharing that with you

But the simple fact of the matter is that we're getting a new Prime Minister on Monday

Oh, no, not another one. And we will get another leader of the Labour Party today

I mean, rubric and arithmetic. Incredible, really, in support of Andy Burnham

And we don't currently know a lot about him. There's a lot of chitter-chatter about who his Chancellor is going to be

This worries me slightly. And I know in a way I'm kind of poisoning my own water supply

but political journalism is febrile by nature. I don't think it used to be quite as febrile as this

because you didn't get big events happening as regularly as they happen now

So it's as if we've become a little bit addicted to moments

Moments used to be rare, therefore you wouldn't be addicted to them

They'd come along and they would be exceptions that proved rules. Gosh, we're having a leadership challenge. Gosh, we're having a change of prime minister. Gosh, we're having an election

Gosh, you see what I mean? They're still historically significant, but they used to be numerically rare

And I'm not a political journalist. I don't have to be. I don't have to hang out with politicians

I don't have to cultivate their goodwill or secure and retain access

I don't have to have dinners and lunches with them in the hope that they might feed me a little nugget of information

I've got enormous respect for some of the people who do that for a living, rather less respect for the people who just take dictation from liars

But they are all now addicted to moments, addicted to excitement, because they have had so much of it since, pretty much since David Cameron called the referendum, and certainly since the referendum result came in

We just have moments that would once have been rare and therefore immense unfolding on a relatively regular basis and we don't necessarily know what to do with it

But I still find myself cognizant of the significance of this moment

A new Labour leader, a new Prime Minister and a new programme, a new approach

We'll hear a little bit about it later. Do stay tuned for that. Andy Burnham due to give a speech in the final hour of this programme

in the first half of the final hour of this programme. And on Monday we'll hear rather more from him, I imagine

when he assumes the position behind the sainted lectern on the street

on the tarmac outside number 10 Downing Street. So what do we know so far

We know that he is going to impress upon the nation and, as far as we can tell, put his money where his mouth is

in other words, deploy actions as well as words. He thinks it's very important to shift focus and perhaps also power away from London

I just want to let that settle in your mind for a moment. The new Prime Minister thinks it's very important to shift focus and power away from London

And bad news for Cornwall, he's heading north. He is moving things north

He wants to have elements of the Downing Street operation based not in London but in Manchester

and by moving that focus and that power, or by moving that power, he also moves focus

The country is, he would argue, unbalanced and he is trying to level the scales

I find this utterly fascinating. I am slightly odd in many ways, as you know

but I am particularly odd when it comes to London. The love I have for this city, despite not having been born here, or having grown up here, or even visited here very often when I was growing up

I think I could count on one hand. I'll tell you what a rarity it was for us to visit London

I once got stuck in the old-fashioned lifts at Covent Garden. I was so unfamiliar with the way in which they opened and closed

So I was absolutely a country mouse. I was a rural, I was a visitor to London

A lot of the lads I was at school with, albeit that I went to school in North Yorkshire

that they lived in London, and that they always seemed quite exotic to me. You know, the nature of the school I went to means that they knocked around places like Chelsea and Fulham

and some of them lived in Surrey, but they would be very familiar with London

and they'd mention places I'd never heard of, and I'd pretend I knew what they were talking about

And I suppose at that point in my life, I could have gone one of two ways

I could either have pressed my face closer to the, or even harder up against the sweet shop window

looking forward to the day when they let me in and I could fill my boots with aniseed balls and gobstoppers and mojos

and cola bottles and live in London, I want to live in London

Or I could have gone the other way and I could have become a little bit negative about it

I could have used my sense of exclusion and even perhaps alienation as a comfort blanket

and decided that I was going to be quite negative about London

I was going to be quite, I don't want to say chippy

but that is the word that popped into my mind. And I would be one of those people, we love that montage

or at least I love that montage, of Coronation Street moments when characters announce that they're going to London

And it happens as regularly as Clockwork. Another character responds by going

London! And I could have been like that. I remember saying when I was a kid when I just moved here 19 20 I was back in Kidderminster and we were at a family party and I was chatting to some of the people my age and we all grown up together And everyone had gone off somewhere and two or three of us had gone to London and we were probably lording it a bit over the others about what an amazing city it was and how we never

leave and one of their dads got the hump with us. One of the dads of a kid who hadn't gone away to

college at all actually was like it's not it's not you know it's not the be all and end all you

know it's not everything you know that London it's not you know I think we were probably sounding a

bit snobbish we were probably sounding a little bit you can forgive a 19 year old that i think but

we were probably sounding a little bit precious a little bit uh condescending even perish the thought

and so and i have a deep love for for other parts of this country as well i mean my parents both

come from yorkshire uh formative i spent a formative year in in manchester grew up in the

Midlands, I am genuinely, whatever the domestic equivalent of multicultural would be, I really am multi-locational when it comes to my love for this country

I've spent a little bit of time in Scotland when my wife, my then girlfriend who became my wife, was working out of the Glasgow office and I used to go and visit her a lot

Deep love for all parts of the United Kingdom and obviously more love for the bits I know well than I have at the moment for the bits that I don't

Norfolk is very much, as you know, in my heart. I have a very, very colourful palette

when it comes to familiarity with and affection for this country. I am not, in terms of activity, I am not London-centric

But I am a London lefty. I think I am a London lefty

I spend a lot of time worrying about people who aren't me or people who aren't like me

I spend a lot of time worrying about inequality and discrimination and racism and these things that are important, powerfully paramount important issues, but

which do seem to be concentrated sometimes in comfortable metropolitan environments. It's why that silly phrase, metropolitan elites, which is usually used by people who

are considerably richer than Yao, or indeed me, that they use it to try and sustain the

status quo by persuading people who are victims of financial inequality that the rich people

aren't the problem. The poor people who don't look like them are the problem. But there's

some truth in the phrase metropolitan elite. If you live in a city and you're comfortably

off, your worldview is very different from those who do not live in cities and are perhaps

not comfortably off. And that's the weird thing that's happened to the Labour Party

in recent years, in that the traditional Labour heartlands of people who don't live in London

and who are not the highest earners in the country have been largely lost

And the people who do live in the big cities and who are comfortably off have become the new Labour

Not just new Labour with a capital N and a capital L, but new Labour with a small n and a capital L

And Andy Burnham is going to try to reverse that process. Andy Burnham, by moving power and focus north

is trying to do what he did in the Makerfield by-election. He's trying to recapture old Labour

I don't know what these words mean anymore. I know what they used to mean

I don't know if we can conduct this conversation without falling down the immigration hole

and struggling to climb out again, but I'm going to try. Because I want to go a little bit deeper than that

I want to look at what it actually means. If, like me, you have a foot in both camps

you have a foot in London and outside London, what do you think of Andy Burnham's

How important is it, do you think, to shift focus and power away from London

Not exclusively, it's not as if London is going to become a political backwater

Parliament ain't going anywhere, But he is attempting to reset what I would have thought was an absolutely baked-in element of British life

And even if you live in Wales or Northern Ireland or Scotland, London is still your capital city as a citizen of the United Kingdom

All roads lead to London. And Andy Burnham wants to change that

Channel 4 have tried. The BBC have tried. Channel 4 moved a lot of its operations to Leeds

but a lot of the key players stayed in London. The BBC moved a lot of its operations to Salford

but a lot of the key players stayed in London. Just caught trains and planes to do their jobs and then fly back again

A luxury that's not available to the people who do the proper work. People who put in eight and ten hour shifts on a show that only lasts three hours

while the presenters clear off when it finishes. God, don't you hate those presenters? Aren't they awful

He wants to move it. I've got two questions for you really how

actually I don't even have two I think I've only really got one

it's what do you think of this how important is it because I think I've got

Stockholm Syndrome I think I'm so London now so utterly enamoured of and embedded

in this city I've kind of forgotten what it would be like to still live in

kidderminster if i had lived in kidderminster for the last 35 years instead of london

my opinion about what andy burnham is doing would be different if i still lived in chalton come hardy

my opinion of what andy burnham is doing would be more important certainly more interesting

because at risk of being that 90 that condescending condescending 19 year old again

there's a little bit of me that thinks oh come off it what difference does it make where the focus is

what difference does it make where the power is we're all in this together as somebody used to say

what difference does geography make when it comes to government what difference does geography make

but of course if you're London you would say that you know it's a bit like having all the biscuits

and and just promising to share them so you don't need to worry I've got all the biscuits I'm going

to share them no I want my own biscuits I want to decide what I'm going to do with my own biscuits

I you know I want I want I want a role in the biscuit factory I want a role in production it's

not good enough to simply say we've got all the biscuits and we'll divvy them out fairly you've

got nothing there's a there's a there's a fundamental patronizing um element to some of

this and i'm feeling it i'm afraid i'm guilty of it this little sense of oh this is london this is

the center of power we'll look after london will look after everybody else look at what we do

economically without london the country would be a basket case so get back in your box and just let

us get on with doing what we... And that's outrageous. I'm just describing

to you honestly, articulating my subconscious biases and prejudices, I suppose. But I want to know what it's

like where you are. I want to know what it's like outside... I want to know what you think of

Andy Burnham's determination to shift focus and power away from London and towards the north How important is it 03456060973 and why

Tell me why you welcome it or, of course, why you think it's a meaningless gimmick

But I really want to dig into, and I'd like the conversation to be largely positive because in my bones I know this is a good idea

or at least in my bones, I believe this is a really good idea

Make the country feel more homogenous. Make the country feel more united

Make it feel more committed to common causes rather than focusing everything on London

But is it feasible? Is it authentic? Is it plausible? Is it desirable

You tell me. The number you need is 0345 6060 973. I just want to kind of walk the tightrope

between intellect and emotion this morning because I think what you feel about this is important

but I also want to know what you think about it I want your reasoning, your critical thinking

and also the contents of your heart what do we think about Andy Burnham's determination

to shift labour away from the London left and to shift power and focus away

from Westminster towards the north. 0345 6060 973 is the number you need

James O'Brien on LBC. Of course, the bit missing from my ysis

it wasn't really an ysis, was it? It was more a series of questions. The bit missing is, explain to somebody in the South East

explain to somebody in the M25 why this is important. Because that's missing from the jigsaw at the moment

Patrick Maguire's written a great piece in the Times today under the headline, Burnham shifts Labour from London left

And I kind of understand why that bit is important, for the reasons I tried to explain at the outset about the shift in the meaning of the Labour vote

the identity of the Labour vote. But if you're like the cast of Coronation Street

whenever one of their number announces that they're moving to London, you're completely out of the ecosystem of the capital

Why is it important to shift focus, to recalibrate, to rebalance? Because it's hard sometimes to grasp the importance of something that doesn't really affect you

That's what I want to try and do today. Unless, of course, you think it's all ridiculous and gimmicky and not important at all

in which case the number remains the same, 03456060973. Alan is impressed, Rich. Alan, what have you got

Morning, James. Hello, mate. Yeah, it's just about the north. I'm a board member of a tree charity

and we are trying to turn a derelict site in Bury, which is just north of Manchester

to what's called an urban tree centre, and we have bid. We put bids in, and they failed

And one of the comments was, quote, why Bury? and that just fills me with

being an angry Mancunian the fact, yeah, you've never come out of London

why better, you don't even know where the place lives Are you sure? Are you sure that, I mean, that's a north-south thing

and it's not a sort of why not Withington or why not Salford

or why not, you know, why Bury, why not Bolton it doesn't necessarily speak of southern snobbery

or ignorance, does it? I mean, you were there, I wasn't but when you visit your son in London

and you see the amount of lottery funding going into their parks

it's tremendous and that's the feeling that we got that if this bid had been down south

it would have worked it we've got some of the most deprived areas

in the country in this city and respectfully and I don't want to make any enemies

there's not a lot of tourism in Bury and a lot of the money that has been spent

on infrastructure in this city actually generates huge amounts of capital by attracting visitors from both within and without this country

I know you're right. I'm just going to be the devil's advocate. And the sense of the pavements in London are paved with gold

and all that kind of thing obviously isn't true. But when you're coming down from parts of the north

it does feel as if we get all the focus and you are completely forgotten, right

Yeah. About Bury, we have the world-famous Bury Market. Yeah, it's the most second popular destination

Are you doing this? Are you sure you want to do the Bury Tourism Board shtick, Alan? I mean, you're more than welcome to

You can fill your boots, mate. I will promote that we've got the Fusallier Museum now

You know, we've got the world-famous Bury Market, as we've said, you know. Is it world-famous

I mean, I've stuck the word exclusive on some newspaper articles back in the day

but we're technically exclusive, but only because nobody else wanted them. Is it really world-famous, Bury Market

It's the most popular market in England, James. If I went to Ulaanbaatar or Kuala Lumpur tomorrow

and asked them to name a market in England, would they say Bury? They would say Bury

and they'd just got a shipping order of black puddings coming in. There we go

There we go. But to get to the original point, the other one that sticks in my mind

is when Manchester actually won a bid for the new English National Football Stadium in 1996

and they obviously and the powers that panicked and said London hadn't had time to prepare

for the bid. Then they re-ran the bid so Manchester London knew

and so he knew it was all over. So we built a new football stadium

on an industrial estate with no direct travel links when we could have built it on a green

field site. I hope the phone line sustains. It went a bit south then

if you pardon the pun. Just step away from the facts, as it were, and the detail

because they can sound not parochial, that wouldn't be a fair thing to say

but they will alienate people who live 100 miles away from Bury

but are still interested in moving the focus away from London. So just steer back to the relationship London has

with the rest of the country and tell me what... Because I think you're a fan of Andy Burnham, you've told me before

So try not to just be warm about this because you're warm about him

Explain to a cynical, sceptical Londoner why simply shifting focus and power would matter

would make a difference to people in your part of the world? Because we believe that everything is London-centric, James

You know, the civil servants who, you know, run a lot of departments

never get north of the Gap. They probably don't know anything. But what difference would it make if they did

What difference would it make? I mean, it might just be vibes and feelings, which are really, really important

but would it make a substantive difference? I think it was. You know, you see what's getting out of the light

what manks are like. I've lost the line. And that is it

I mean, Alan has set it up perfectly in a way. Because that's what I was trying

and probably failing to articulate as someone who grew up very much outside London

real face-up against the sweet shop window. But I've been living in the sweet shop for 35 years

What does it look like to the rest of the country? What do we look like to the rest of the country

And why does Andy Burnham determination to shift focus and therefore power or power and therefore focus away from the capital city towards the regions

Because as a couple of you have reminded me, it's not just the North that will benefit from this

He is committed to... So what? Should we do that as well? Because I keep saying focus and power

Do you know why I keep saying focus and power? Because I don't have meaningful words to use in place of focus and power

They're kind of abstract, right? Focus and... But what are we going to do? We've got to move focus

We've got to move power. We've got to shift focus. We've got to shift power

Alan's put a little bit of flesh on the bones. We've got to move civil service. I mean, what does that mean

The passport office isn't in London? There's loads of big civil service operations

that aren't based in London. The actual machinery of government, the departments, the government departments

are based in London. I don't know, honestly, what difference it would make substantively

to move them to Aberdeen. or to stick them all in Salford

but maybe I'm suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Maybe it's my fault. What would we actually move

And why? And what do you think about Andy Burnham's clear determination

to recalibrate, to rebalance, to reset? He's trying to balance scales that have been rendered incredibly unbalanced

pretty much since the dawn of this nation. You know, the reason why Neolithic communities

settled upon the banks of the Thames is the same reason why London today

is the capital city of these islands. And Andy Burnham doesn't want to change that

or denude London. He just wants to sort of share it out more

if you like. And I want to know, A, why it's important

why it matters, and B, I suppose whether or not it's going to work

We'll go to Nottingham and Bristol next, So, um, don't feel excluded from this if you're in London, but I would like people who are not in or from London to explain to the cynical, world-weary Cockney why this matters

Because she doesn't think it matters at all. Look, the government's government

It doesn't matter where it is. It's like the argument about working from home. Does it matter whether you're in the office or at home

As long as you can do the job. Does it matter whether you're in Manchester or Marleybone? As long as you can do the job

How do you undo that? How do you address that sort of cynicism or scepticism

It's half past ten, and Dominic Ellis is here with your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC

33 minutes after ten, what does that mean? The book that he wrote with Steve Rotherham talks about how surprised he was

when he got to Westminster and realised, not that he said this at the time, I don't believe

but realised that money was being given to communities that didn't really need it

Oh, who just got a little flashback to Rishi Sunak in Tunbridge Wells

promising to take money away from poor communities and give more to Tunbridge Wells

And that must be part of it, but what does it mean in real terms to move power to the regions

What does it actually mean? Do you know? Does it matter? Is it vibes

Is it feelings? And moving away from London, moving things away from London

why do you welcome or not welcome that ambition? Andy Burnham knows better, right, Steve

than to come to London and unpack Moving power to the north creates an expectation

that that is where power will reside in the future, and that is handy if you're a northern MP

Johnny, meanwhile, suggests he is, and I quote, rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic

Morning, James, says Robert. Andy Burnham's idea is one of the smartest ideas

to come from a politician in a very long time. Westminster buildings are way past their sell-by date

Decisions are far too London-centric, with everything north seen as secondary, except for weapons or nuclear dumps, etc

The entire government should be relocated out of London and moved north, but not Manchester or Birmingham

A 21st century facility for government that's designed specifically for the purpose is step one

I quite like the idea of that. We've just refurbished this building, and it's like walking into the Starship Enterprise when you come in downstairs

I spent ten minutes yesterday looking for the holodeck. It's absolutely magnificent, and it matters, actually

My friend Emma always describes Westminster as a grown-up Hogwarts, and it is

It creates this ludicrous sense of entitlement among the people who work through the door

And you're steeped in history rather than steeped in public service or public duty

James, he doesn't want to shift power solely to the north. He wants to shift to the regions

You're absolutely right, Andy. I have corrected that since you sent it

And James writes, I'm a Hammersmith-born Londoner, ended up living in the north. There are people here in Scarborough who literally think London is a different country

That's how far removed it is from many people. to which the obvious response is, will shifting things change that

Will it actually somehow draw the country together or change the dynamics of the domestic dynamics in any way

Kath's in Nottingham. Kath, what would you like to say? Well, I grew up in the North East, lived in Liverpool

and I've lived for the last 35 years in the Midlands. And in all those places, all the time I've lived there

industries have been closing, factories have been closing, and the industry has been declining

Same here, though. We've lost most of our car plants, Dagenham. I know that we didn't have steelworks and coal mines

and things like that, but London was a manufacturing mecca and isn't really anymore

I think more new jobs have come to London, the kind of financial and service jobs

I think unless you're in those areas, based in those areas, living in those areas

and see it every day, you're not likely to give it the importance that you would

you know, if you're an MP who's grown up there or your office is based in Leeds

I don't see why it has to be Manchester. I would have gone to Leeds a bit further north

But it's not just a matter of power and focus. I think with that power and focus being more concentrated in the north and the midlands

would become resources, and it's the resources that really matter. I think you're right

I did it, you've just reminded me of something, forgive me for being too self-referential

but I did an interview with the Yorkshire Post last month, because I'm doing a gig in Leeds in October

and I have family connections there, and I said something that hadn't properly occurred to me before

I said, if Parliament was in Leeds, or if, you know, more focus was in Leeds specifically

or you could have picked other northern cities, then the entire conversation about HS2

would have been completely different. That was going to be my main example, actually

No way! Great minds, Kath, great minds! Northern Rail Network is so needed in the north

I mean, if you travel around the north a lot, as I do

and lots of people do, you know that the poor rail services

the slow, apart from the cancellations and the delays, It's holding the north back and I think if Parliament or MPs were based or decision-making centres were based more in the north

then there will be more importance attached to finding the resources to build that Northern Rail network and also increase skill training

I mean those are vital things and the resources have got to be found to put them into the north

I mean, it's almost as if we're speaking two different languages, isn't it

And what surprises me is that MPs have constituencies, Kath. MPs should be well-versed in the needs of their constituencies

and I think a huge number of them are, from almost all parties

Obviously, the politicians who skip 77 out of 77 votes are probably not necessarily prioritising the concerns of their constituents

but the massive, massive majority of MPs really care about their constituents

And yet, we're all talking as if they fail utterly to resonate or register once they get to Westminster

It's almost as if they lose something when they get off the station at Euston or King's Cross

Well, I think that emphasis on growth, growth at all costs. When you get growth, where does that money go

Where does that increase in NGP, national gross product go? Does it all go into London or into the pockets of financial traders

That's a good point. The growth doesn't necessarily move any of that money whatsoever up into the northwest, the northeast

And finally, what about the vibes? So the person who feels, and our messenger a moment ago referenced Scarborough as a place where London feels like a completely different country

Is there anything politicians can do that would reduce that sense of being left out and left behind

I mean, you know, if you open a government department in the middle of Pudsey, is it really going to make people in Yorkshire feel more engaged, more represented

Well, policies, genuine policies, modernising the North and the Midlands would need to follow, not just an office

Yeah, that's a really good point. So, you know, that I presume is part of what Andy Burnham means when he talks about moving things to the regions

It can't just be vibes and feelings or indeed offices. It has to be movement and expenditure

I haven't read that book. Eleanor has, the producer of the program. And I picked her brains about it

But Steve Rotherham and Andy Burnham, it actually does two things, that book

The first thing it does is show you that he's had this in the back of his mind pretty much since the minute he left Westminster

it's a very Barack Obama thing to do isn't it publish a book which has got your vision in it

while you are ostensibly not actually jockeying for power, it's a long game

as it were and the second thing it does is address some of the ideas that

are now being rather loosely and unhelpfully described as Manchesterism but there's nothing meaningless about

moving power decision making and expenditure as Kath reminds us out of London, I just wonder

at the moment exactly what it would look like. Harry's in Bristol. Harry, what do you reckon

Hi, James. I wanted to talk a bit about so I think

Andy Burnham touched on this in his speech a few weeks back

in that London being the absolute economic political centre and how centralised it is

right now is desirable for the country or for Londoners. Why not

So I think the example I wanted to set, so you have a lot of inflow from people outside of London into London for work because that's where the economic activity is

I think that's a double whammy. You're increasing the housing pressure on London, which we know is bad already

But you also systematically over time, you destroy these support networks. people who can't move to London

because they've got family members who are ill or need support. They're stuck

There's no work for them. And then people who can move to London

they break apart their support networks and their parents can't get help

Their friends don't have things like pre-babysitting, to use a contrived example

How would we change that? I mean, I'm not expecting you to come up

with a completely comprehensive and airtight. But, I mean, just give me some headlines

Because, I mean, you're very persuasive, and what you say feels right

But how would we change that? I'd better do it right. But I think the thing here

what I really want to see from Burnham is not devolution for the sake of devolution

but where it makes sense. So you're telling me what you don't want

Tell me what you do want. What I want is local politics to be able to make the decisions they need to

and I think importantly, to be able to raise the money and spend the money where they need to

Right. I think you were talking earlier about with, you know, stuff

there's no money into these areas, right? There's no money coming from these areas

So maybe we invest the money in London where it's actually generating returns

But that's self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course it is. If there's no ability for councils to raise the money because 80% of their council tax spend is on statutory spending like social care, out-of-the-house social care, they can't invest any money into fixing up a dilapidated area that then can serve as a hub for economic activity

When you have that economic activity, that generates cultural activity, which makes everywhere else, reduces the London monopoly on, oh, I don't want to move out of London because there's nothing going on in the rest of the country

It's because there's no economic activity, which begets everything else. Yeah, it does. Have you got a kind of beyond personal interest in this? I don't want to sound patronising, but you're incredibly informed. That's a really, really smart ysis of the situation. Are you just an enthusiastic amateur, or do you have a professional interest in this stuff

I'm an enthusiastic amateur, I'd say. Well, more Harry. We need a lot more of Harry

And I was a bit unfair to Alan then, wasn't I, up in Prestwich, when he was talking about Bury Market

because what he was touching on was the idea, and his tree project

what he was touching on is the idea of people sitting behind a desk in London

making decisions about places like Bristol or Bury and sundry other British towns and cities that begin with B

without actually having the simple knowledge, the simple local knowledge that they need

to understand the impact of the decisions that they're making. Yeah. That's a really powerful point, actually

And you might do a cost-benefit ratio. Where should we spend the money? What if we spend it here

Then the short-term returns will be much greater than if we spend it there. Yeah, but what if the short-term returns

are not the same as the long-term returns? Or what if, actually, there is some social capital here

as opposed to financial capital? This, for me, is the great tragedy of the last 20 years of British politics

More, perhaps, I'd probably take it back to 1979, although the Labour government from 1997 to 2010 tried to undo some of it

George Osborne came along and undid what they'd undone. The absolute negation of social capital

I didn't understand what social capital was until someone rang this programme and explained

We were talking about council houses at the time which is it social capital Because you don own it even though you live in it but you own something You own a sense of something if you got a

council house. You own a sense of home, you own a sense of permanence, you own a sense of

stakeholding. Even though you don't own the bricks and mortar, you own something more than

you do if you're renting from a private landlord and you're subject to their whims and fickleness

So social capital would be youth clubs. Social capital would be parks

Social capital would be things that deliver something very valuable to a population

but not something that you can put a price on. Which takes us back to a quote that I've shared with you a couple of times in the last few months

without actually bothering to check whether it was actually Oscar Wilde who said it, that a cynic is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing

and the difference between value and price is perhaps, thanks to Harry's brilliant ysis, I now think

is perhaps deeply relevant to what Andy Burnham is talking about. Albeit that you'd be spending money

you're spending an expectation of something that has enormous value, even if it doesn't come in at a massive price

10.46 is the time. James O'Brien on LBC. 10.49 is the time

So a good piece in the Times today, a more nuance than the little bit I'll read you allows

but, excuse me, it makes this point. One often hears this sort of argument, and not just about Miliband

The idea is that Ed Miliband can't be Chancellor, because despite having a constituency in Doncaster

his concerns and his political education is far too London. One often hears this sort of argument

that the London left offer policy prescriptions that make little political sense

for the small towns of provincial Britain. It's all about renters in flat shares, they complain

or people who commute to work by train, net zero, liberalism on immigration, etc., etc

To all of that, influential members of Labour's northern set would say, basically, nobody cares

The music that you constantly play, as the old Smith's record goes

says nothing to me about my life, which, as Patrick Maguire goes on to point out

is reductivist and simplistic, but not entirely without merit. I suppose that the pop, the, the, the, the popular culture equivalent of that rather

um, academic ysis would sound a lot like this. I'm on my way to London

London? She's on her way to London. London! I've got London this afternoon

I'll be out your air then. London. University College London. London? We're going to London

London! Going where? London. London? I might give London a go. London

No, she's... I've been banging on the Barlow's door for ages. There's no answer. No, no, no

She's in London. London? I'm staying here a few days, then I'm moving to London. I've got a job interview on Monday

London? Yeah, the money's great. Oh, it's in London. London? Bethany's back from London

London? London. Why are you saying it like that? Why are you saying it like that

03456060973. Andy's in Hull. Andy, what would you like to say? Well, it's three things now

I thought of another one after, while waiting. So the first would be, is it a good thing

Yes. Because, obviously, we then have a move away of the centralisation of London

which over hundreds of years slowly gained more and more power. Yes

And, obviously, we've seen the north slowly die off because of all the industries dying, the coal mining

and slowly withering. So that will help rejuvenate a little bit and concentrate the minds of the politicians on somewhere else

I think you're right. I mean, whether or not it leads to the kind of improvements and change that we all want to see is, for the time being, moot

Because your ysis thus far is correct. That would be the intention and that would be the hope

Okay. The second one was technically it would be good for London

the reason being we have seen their attempts to renovate the House of Westminster

for many years. It is full of asbestos, it is a fire risk, they have

wasted millions of extra pounds by not moving out this would then cause

the tourism to be able to actually visit inside. This would cause

our cinema and TV industries to be able to actually use it

as a set. So we'd use it as a sort of theme park instead of as a legislature the same way we can sort of like

have people visit um the palace we can actually have them go inside maybe sit maybe explain to

the history of you know our children and go and say you can sit there you can act there you can

try and vote huge it'd be a mess i think it'd be a massive tourist attraction it'd probably pay for

itself eventually as well so so where would you put parliament i would put it somewhere other

than Manchester. The reason being... Where? Not where would you put it. Where would you

put it? Hull? Well, I see Manchester as more the London of the north. Yes, fair

enough. Effectively, it's got the most money, it's got the most vibrancy

it's got everything just what any other city doesn't have up here

It would be like London. I would say it needs to be somewhere else

like Hull or Bradford that needs the rejuvenation. See, I I don't think you think it's going to happen either

No. I mean, the pull of Westminster, the idea of people, I don't know what you want to call them, reactionaries or traditionalists

or just sitting there now having conniptions at the very thought of Parliament

no longer being Parliament, you know, the Poojin architecture being handed over to grubby-faced tourists

rather than... I think it's all vibes. I think if you were to make an entirely intellectual decision and leave emotion aside entirely, then we probably would do what you want

And I'll tell you what, if you move Parliament to City X tomorrow, the transport infrastructure both in and to City X would become world class as well in this country, not overnight

It's not China. by one of your listeners. It's, you know, Hull lost the ability

to have its infrastructure updated when the train line was cut. Yes

You know, we were going to get this nice upgrade and all of a sudden

it was taken away. It is the Northern Rail Network decided and cancelled

by people who are London-based or London-centric. I know Rishi Sunak has a constituency

in Yorkshire, but I mean, he looks London, doesn't he? That is actually, in retrospect

I wish I'd been a little bit more on it at the time. It is extraordinary, isn't it, that these decisions were made

from an incredibly London perspective to the exclusion of almost all the voices of the people

who would be most affected by the infrastructure. Yeah, I mean, if you just look at trying to get from Holder Scarborough

for example, it's like every hour. It Yeah and I know People come to visit me from outside London and particularly from Kiddy actually and the idea that I can walk out of my front door

and get on any one of five buses within about two and a half minutes

is just extraordinary. And obviously there's more people here, but there's got to be some room for the closing of the gap

some room for improvement. Andy mentioned Scarborough, which is relevant to the conversation that we're having in the next hour, actually

I find this story about parents taking their children out of school during term time

because they say they can't afford to go on holiday during the school holidays

They're not telling the truth. You can afford to go on holiday during the school holidays

You just can't afford to go on the holiday that you can't afford, which is why we ended up in Scarborough quite a lot when I was a kid

If my parents had taken me out of school, I'm sure we could have gone somewhere more expensive

because it would have cost a lot less during term time. I just find it extraordinary that we have fevered conversations

about why certain demographics are doing poorly in school. And then in the next breath, we'll be defending their parents' right to take them out of school to go to Magaluf for a week

We're getting on to that in the next hour, though. And, of course, it wasn't Scarborough that we used to go to

It was Filey, which is even less glamorous. Steve's in Marlow. Steve, what would you like to say

Oh, yeah, James. So, growing up in the 70s and 80s with the change in industrialization in the UK

I think the north was disproportionately affected just because of the nature of the heavy industry

So government made centralised decisions, probably quite rightly, to shut down mining, shut down steel towns

But it then did nothing. And I think it had a duty of care to recognise the impact it would have on those towns, ripping the heart out of them

And I don't think it did very much at all to then regenerate

Now, those places have, over a long term, started to do that themselves

What would it look like, though? what Andy, and we may find out later, we may find out on Monday

we may find out before Christmas, we may never really find out. What would meaningful policies look like

in terms of fixing some of the malaise that you describe? It's not so much the malaise, James

I think it's the empowerment. So, for instance, Blackpool, for a variety of reasons

didn't get its super casino. I think if they were empowered with that decision-making process... Themselves

exactly right I mean Blackpool bless it is lovely but it is a bit tired

and it needs something to give it a boost again it's not going to be

mining or heavy industry but I think in a controlled way and gambling is a different world

of course but in a controlled way a super casino they could do something

to help get that place yeah I mean it's a symbol the super casino

I appreciate it because I don't want my inbox to be overtaken by people

who point out the perils of gambling but you're talking about a decision that is not taken by the people who are ostensibly in charge of that area

So when Andy Burnham is doing more than words then, when he talks about moving things to

the regions, he's talking about autonomy. And it's quite a persuasive argument, isn't it

It's quite a powerful argument. And, you know, in terms of the bigger picture, the focus, the Northern Labour Party, the party of the North

somehow grabbing the reins of the national horse, which has been, for good or for ill

pandering to a very, very southern perspective for as long as I can remember

there's no real downside to that that I can see at the moment. Now, and you talked earlier about rebuilding social capital

Yes. And I think with disenfranchised people, this is a moment where he can actually make a difference and people go, wow, they're connected, they're doing something

Interestingly, and a quicker side is if you look at Nigel Farage and Clacton

Hang on, you can't say anything else. There's a by-election on. Don't worry. No, no, no, no biggity

But you can speak about him, but you can't speak about him in any way that might be relevant to the forthcoming by-election

Those are the rules about Perder. So don't worry, I got there in time

And I will be talking about Nigel Varage later in the programme, and indeed about 30p Lee, because..

Oh, I don't want to spoil the surprise for you, but it's safe to say that they seem to have discovered an antipathy towards free speech

They seem to have discovered an objection to people having a little bit of fun at their expense

or sharing hearty words. So you can call for people to be burned alive in their beds

and get a hero's welcome on stage at the Reform UK conference

But it turns out that if you're one of the nation's most popular... Oh, go on then

The nation's most popular commercial speech radio presenter, you can't even tease them without getting official complaints

Who could I possibly be talking about? And what am I going to share with you later

James O'Brien on LBC. Four minutes after 11 is the time. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC

I could be wrong about this I hate saying that because I was fairly confident I was right at 10 to 10 this morning

when I decided we were going to talk about it later you may have heard Tom wading into this territory earlier

I used to be adamant I used to be absolutely adamant that taking your child out of school during term time

was an incredibly irresponsible thing to do and listen, let's get this out of the way early

OK, I could, when my children were still of school age, I could afford to go on really nice holidays during the school holidays

Lucky me, right? Lucky, lucky me. My parents, however, could not afford to go on what you might describe as luxury holidays

during the school holidays when I was a child. So guess what? We didn't go on luxury holidays

A lot of the children I was at school with did. I remember a lad called Adrian coming back from Barbados when I was about 10

And Barbados, we'd been in Morecambe. Or Morricamby, as my dad suggested we should call it

in order to sound a little bit more exotic than your usual Lancashire holiday maker

But this lad Adrian came back from Barb... Where did you go on your holidays, O'Brien? Morricamby

Where did you go? Barbados. Barbados. And I used to be pretty clear, pretty clear

that this was a fairly binary issue. that if you can't afford to go on holiday during the school holidays

if you can't afford to go on that holiday during the school holidays, then you are, I'm terribly sorry

you're going to have to go on a different holiday. And there are two reasons why I'm wondering whether

either I've had this wrong all along or things have changed sufficiently

for me to think that I need to review my position. But the first thing that has made me wonder that

is the sheer scale of the people doing it. About one in five parents are now taking trips during term time

More than two million parents have taken their children out of school

during term time. And then the Times reports, entirely incorrectly, but I don't blame the individual journalists

because this is the way the conversation is conducted, because they could not afford to travel in the holidays Of course they could They could just not afford to travel there They could afford to travel somewhere else They just couldn afford to travel there

So where are you going for your holidays? Disneyland. When are you going? Term time. Where would you be going if you couldn't actually go during term time

and you had to spend that same amount of money on the kind of holiday you can afford during the school

Oh, well, we'd have to go to Mallorca or Blackpool. Do you see what I mean

there's this great phrase that Eleanor introduced me to earlier today which I've already forgotten

but let me just double check and I'll tell you again lifestyle inflation

have you heard of this? lifestyle creep this idea that we are all

and this is a terrible conversation for me to conduct for a whole heap of reasons

not only could I afford to go on nice holidays during the school holidays but also my children were at private school

which means that you get a win-win situation because you tend to break up a little earlier

or go back later, so you can slide off on holiday in that one-week or two-week window

before the state schools break up, and because a tiny proportion of the population

are privately educated, the prices for those holidays in those windows have not risen exponentially

So not only could I afford to go on nice holidays, but, of course, there were some holidays

I couldn't afford to go on because I didn't have the money

Regardless of where the calendar was at that particular moment, I couldn't, for example, afford to stay at the Four Seasons

for three weeks or go to, I don't know, the Georges Sank in Paris for the entire..

Do you see what I mean? Unless you are as rich as Croesus, there are holidays you cannot afford full stop

You cannot afford them full stop. Right? And now you remove the full stop and you insert some brackets and you say

I cannot afford them unless I take the children out of school and go early, closed bracket

I don't think I am wrong. You're not necessarily going to like me for this

but I sit here, and I am. I hope you know that it's entirely authentic

I despair the performance in school of some children from certain demographics

It breaks my heart that you are almost scarred for life by childhood deprivation

that your opportunities for self-improvement are hugely limited by the circumstances of your birth and upbringing

We've wrestled and wondered why, and we will again. At the moment, it seems to be white working class children

who are most likely to do worst at school. And it's not about ethnicity

because the white middle class children are doing fine. Part of the problem for me, a big part of the problem for me

is all of the people telling their parents that education is a waste of time or that teachers are the enemy

not least when teachers are feel that they've been left with little

choice but to take industrial action the right wing blowhards who profess to care about the quotes

working class end quotes will be queuing up to tell you that teachers are a bunch of

work shy layabouts who have enormous holidays and spend their lives knitting

curtains out of their own armpit hair and living on muesli and sponsored sandals

the hatred that's directed at teachers is one of the ugliest elements of a society

because the people that suffer most from the demonization of teachers are the people who start with the least

The poorest children, the most in need of education, the children who would benefit most

from being at school are the children who are least likely to be at school

Not only do they play truant more, but I would suggest that they are also

going to be part of this problem. Or there'll be plenty of middle-class parents caught up in this as well. It's probably a preponderance of middle-class parents who are

suffering from lifestyle creep. They think that they should be enjoying a better lifestyle than

they can afford. They think that their discretionary income, if you like, is not the measure by which

they decide what holidays they can afford to go on. They decide what holidays they can afford to go

on according to cheating and Instagram. Listen, I would have been performatively unkind at some

point about this. I was very, very worried when I started therapy and discovered that

some of the things that I'd done over the years on this program had been mean and cruel

particularly with regard to obesity, actually, and tattoos and some other issues as well

But on this one, I think back in the day, I would have become a bit theatrical at this point

and I would have been, I would have hoped, amusingly rude. I'm not like that anymore

The reason I worried when I started therapy was because I thought perhaps that's why you were tuning in

And if I stopped being that person, then you might not tune in anymore. You might not enjoy the show as much as you did when I'd give people a largely undeserved but essentially lighthearted kicking

I'm not doing that today, but I do think that you've got your priorities horribly wrong if you're taking your child out of school to go on holiday

I really do. There'll be some exceptions. Military families. Of course there will

people who truly can't afford to stay in a caravan in Filey for a few days

unless they go just before school breaks up and it's a choice between that holiday or no holiday

I understand all of that. But if you care about education, then you can't care more about your holiday, can you

What's it like from the classroom's perspective? I mean, if teachers want to queue up to tell me that the..

the problem is nowhere near as acute as I think it is

then I will change my mind. Genuinely, when I saw that figure today

two million parents are doing it. Am I the baddie? Am I the one that's getting this wrong

If two million parents are doing it, maybe I need to review my position

Nearly a quarter of parents in households earning more than £100,000 a year

said that they had taken a child out of school to reduce costs. hey, lads, if you're earning more than £100,000 a year

guess what, you can afford to go on holiday. You just can't afford to go on that holiday

Where did you go when you were a kid? I'll tell you what we did. And remember, my dad was paying a king's ransom

to send me to public school and prep school, and my sister went to private school as well

Here were some of the holidays we went on. I think before I started, I was a tiny baby, I think

We went to Morecambe a lot. We went there when I was seven or eight years old

my first year at prep school. We went to Morecambe in Lancashire for a holiday

I think we stayed half bored in a boarding house. Do you remember coming downstairs in boarding houses

in English seaside resorts? There's one memory I have, the sound of the landlady scraping the carbon off burnt toast

before bringing it in to the dining room for breakfast. So we were an aspirational middle-class family

My father was a Daily Telegraph journalist, and we went on holiday to a boarding house in Morecambe

I'm not gonna lie to you, I love my parents, I'm very grateful for all the sacrifices they made on my behalf

That is not one of my happiest memories. Another year, my great uncle John, on my dad's side

had a little cottage in Filey that had not been updated since before the Second World War

The only thing I've ever had was, that had changed was the meter

into which you could now put modern five-pence pieces as opposed to the pre-decimalised Asian coins

that you needed to feed the electricity meter when my dad went there as a kid

This is not the Four Yorkshiremen episode of Monty Python. I had an incredibly privileged childhood

An incredibly, not where near as privileged as some people, but considerably more privileged than most

We were comfortable, we were happy, we were warm, and we went to expensive schools

But we did not go on expensive holidays, ever. Foreign holidays, are you ready

A caravan in Benaday in Brittany. A Euro camp, do you remember

You'd get the GB sign for the back of the car, we'd stick it on the back of Dad's Morris Marina

possibly a Morris Itale by that point. Company car, you see, privileged. You'd stick it on the back and we'd drive to a static caravan

on a massive campsite in Brittany. And that is a really happy memory

because the kids ran wild. We all made friends with the kids in Next Door's caravan

from all sort of walks of life and backgrounds and we had an incredible fortnight there

Absolutely wonderful. That is a really, really happy memory. But it wasn't Barbados

It wasn't a boutique hotel in San Antonio. It was not expensive

It was about as cheap as they could get away with And we didn't even do that every summer

Some summers we didn't go on holiday at all. Now, listen, I'm owning my privilege

I'm violently owning my privilege because I am not pretending for a moment

that I was denied anything by not going on these holidays. I'm simply using my own personal experience to point out

A, that you can afford to go on holiday, you just can't afford to go on that holiday

And B, a holiday is not a human right. Sometimes you just can't afford things

And that is a lesson that perhaps is not being learned on anything like the scale that it should be

by not children, but the parents of those children. First time I ever went on a plane, I was 11 years old

and a friend of mine at one of my posh schools, his family had an apartment in Mallorca

And I flew to Mallorca for a holiday living in their flat

That was the first time I didn't think I went on a plane again until I was..

Can that be true? I don't think I went on a plane again until I was 18

Can that be true? I think it is. I had a Greek girlfriend at university

I went to see her in Greece. That can't be true, can it? I didn't go on an aeroplane

between the ages of 0 and 11 and 11 and 18. But the point I'm making

is even from a background of privilege and comparative comfort, fancy holidays were things that we could not afford

And they still are. They still are things that you can't afford

So why are you going on them? And taking your children out of school to do it

I've talked myself back round again. It's a tragedy, this. I've got no particular beef with you

When I talked a moment ago about being performatively unpleasant and theatrical

I'd now insult you. I'd say something like, you don't care about your children's education

You are a philistine. And I'd kind of half mean it, and I might sum the debt

You know the kind of presenter I'm talking about. They don't really believe in anything or care about anything

They just wake up every morning and think, how do I push your buttons today

I'm not going to do that. I think if two million people are doing it

and you live in a society where ostentatious consumerism is the new God

then I get it. I understand why you're doing it. If the cards are falling a little bit differently

I'd probably do it myself. I probably would have done it myself, but I can't

Or rather, I wouldn't have done because I can't quite get past the idea that taking your child out of school to go on holiday is telling your child that holidays are more important than school

Worse, that fun and I'll do what I want and rules don't matter is more important than school

What possible chance have you got of persuading your child to become a productive, responsible citizen if you're teaching them from the age of six that the rules are for mugs

Rules are for mugs. And holidays and fun and consumerism, they're the really important things

Not education and books and knowledge. It's all about holidays and fun and irresponsibility

and kicking back and having pictures to stick on Instagram and Facebook

to persuade people that you're richer than you really are. Go to bloody Brittany

Go to Scarborough. Go to Morecambe. Go to Blackpool. Go somewhere that you can afford

during the periods of the year that you're allowed to take your children away

Don't go to places that you can't afford unless you take your children out of school

and teach them the silent lesson that school doesn't really matter. And you're going to try to persuade me that I'm wrong

and that you can do both, and that might be true in a handful of cases, but I'm afraid to actually persuade me to review my position

you're going to have to tell me that two million parents are exceptions to the rule

that one in five parents of school-aged children in this country are all perfectly capable of filling up the holes

left by taking their child out of school in terms of education, knowledge and instruction

But crucially, you're also teaching them that school doesn't really matter. And then you'll ring me up in a couple of years

complaining about the performance of certain demographics in the education and why are they doing better

and why aren't these kids doing it and you'll pretend that it's got something to do with

two-tier education or anti-white racism or some old nonsense like that when the real answer is

and all ethnicities will be doing this but i bet the best performing in schools i bet there's a

correlation between the ethnicity of the kids who do best in schools and the ethnicity of the kids

who are not taken on holiday during term time i could be wrong it's going to be impossible to

prove so i'll stick my house on it while i can either you teach your children that the most

important thing they can do during their schooling years is schooling, or you teach them at its

holidays. 03456060973. Who else is thinking of the lad whose dad used to tell them he was taking

them to France for the day, and he took them to the Isle of Sheppey? Because you get on a boat

they just tell them, they're young, they don't know, we're going to France, oh that's so exciting

and he took them to the Isle of Sheppey. It was one of the best calls we've taken this year. Speaking of the best calls we've ever taken

I was at the streets concert in Alexandra Palace last night. Beautiful gig

Absolutely legendary gig. I've been to two gigs this year that are among the best I've ever been to in my life

and that was one of them. But a lovely young, I say young, he was about 40

a lad called Ollie came up, and sometimes people bump into me in public

and I can't quite believe how excited they are to see me. But he was, and he remembered

he couldn help himself saying the best call that we ever taken on the programme And it was probably the one it was probably the one that I would also put up there as the funniest ever I wonder if you can guess what it is

or whether or not you want to just text me a quick message about, it was the Woolwich Ferry, wasn't it, that that caller was

just from about a month and a half ago. What was the caller that Ollie

who I bumped into at Alexandra Palace, regards to your dad as well, Ollie, the call that probably is the funniest we've ever taken on the programme

Let's see how many people get it right and I'll do the reveal after this. James O'Brien on LBC

Not as obvious as I thought it was, the funniest call we've ever taken. You're right, Matt and Lincoln suggested

it was the bloke who was trying to convey the different accents that he believed pigeons had

Ollie, going back to the pandemic, it was the lad in Leeds, from Leeds

who was in China at the outbreak of the pandemic. He really was special. It was Luke, wasn't it

Was that his name? A beautiful lad and really brought some joy into the situation

And a couple of you have guessed correctly a call that I probably would chalk up as the funniest we've ever taken

Abe's got it right and a few others. But no, none of the Brexit calls, David, they're not allowed

Anyway, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about one in five parents taking term time trips

25 after 11 is the time. and my conviction, my contention, that for all the talk, particularly from middle-class parents

about the cultural value of the holiday they've taken, the holiday you could afford to go on during the holidays

would also have cultural value. So, spare me. Lee's in Cockermouth in Cumbria

Lee, what would you like to say? Les! Les is in Cockermouth in Cumbria. There you go, I should go back to school, Les

What do you want to say? Yeah, no, just saying that we sport with our..

school about taking the kids out during term time. And the school were very supportive of it

based on what the kids would get out of it versus being at school for that last week of term

Where did you go? Where did we go? We went to Europe, to Turkey, to Greece

Well, you did it all the time? Pretty much so, yeah. I think so, yeah

And the school... Really? Yeah, well, I'd helped out a lot at school

I was part of the community at school. And it was saying, well, this is what I'm putting on the table to the school

the headteacher. And they were going, yeah, we can see what you're doing there

You're going to take them on an educational type trip. Do you know what? I mean, this is a bit awkward for me

I mean, I believe you, but I also, at the same time, somehow don't believe you

Yeah, well, we've spent a pretty parallel life with a group in North Yorkshire

My dad had a marina, and we went to Farley and Morecambe. or I can't be telling lies, can I

No, well, that's very true. No, you never... But why couldn't you go to Filey and Morecambe with your kids

Well, we've taken them there also because it's the best cultural trip they'll ever have

But you could afford that during the school. And it was for financial reasons

because, I mean, you're teaching your kids that holidays are more important than school. Yeah, yeah

No, it wasn't that... It was probably a better holiday for the kids

because we could go outside term time, more educational, more interesting. I mean, I guess there's people who've got enough money

We could have gone in the term time or not in term time. But we get, like you say, we get a better holiday for the kids

You get a holiday you can't afford. I mean, I think I might report that teacher

If you leave his details with the switchboard, I'm going to report that teacher to Ofsted. Absolutely outrageous behaviour

encouraging parents to teach their children that holidays are more important than schooling

Let us mind how you go. 28 minutes after 11 is the time. speaking of Ofsted, sounds a bit like Ofcom, doesn't it

Don't let me go home without telling you the story, the latest news from the front line of the free speech warriors

like 30p Lee Anderson. Peter's in Glasgow. Peter, what would you like to say

Hi, good morning, James. How are you? I'm all right, mate. What's on your mind? So I've got three points

But first of all, I think that you're on a bit of a wind-up this morning. I'm not

I'm not entirely convinced that you believe the words are coming out of your mouth. Yeah, well, I did go to great pains to explain why I'm not on a wind-up

and I think I managed to step back from doing that sort of performative obnoxiousness

that I would have done once, and, you know, using words like philistine

But you are, if you do this regularly, you are making a teacher's life harder

and you are, on some level, subconsciously telling your child that holidays and, actually, ostentatious consumption

is more important than education. OK, well, hopefully I'll cover some of that

but I'll be very interested to see what your opinion is at the end of the show, so we'll wait out for that

Anyway, so three points. First of all, I think the price increase

over the holiday period is absolutely scandalous. I think there's too many people, too many companies

that are just purely profiteering from the limited term time. Yeah, I mean, lots of people couldn't afford Oasis tickets

because of the way that they priced them and the way that the prices went up

Exact same situation. Yeah, but it doesn't justify teaching your children that it's okay to steal tickets

or teaching your children that going to a concert is more important than going to school. It's unfair and it's unlucky, but it's not an answer to the question of why you would take your children out of school

to go on a holiday that you can't afford to go on full stop. Yeah, no, I appreciate that

And also accept the fact that I'm in Scotland. We don't have the same term time as England

They do increase quite a bit. However, when English holiday hits, the price increases absolutely through the roof

That moves on to the next point. First point's failed, just so you know

So, second point is, if you speak to any adult round about our age or whatever

and you ask them, what are some of your fondest memories? Most likely, they'll talk about holiday times, times when they're abroad with their family

on big adventure holidays. Not me. as opposed to sitting there and saying

I remember this one time in school, just before the summer holidays, when we sat through a great lesson

I've never heard anybody say that. They were the best bits. The best bits of your school days

were the bits towards the end of term when things were all a little bit more relaxed

You might have a point if we're talking about half a day or a day, but you're talking about a week or a week and a half

and the teachers are trying to teach these children that education is really important

and you're teaching them it's more important to go to Disneyland. Well, that brings me on to a third point

Right, second point failed. carry on. So again, I accept the fact that education is absolutely

important, and it does vary depending on the year and the day to... Hang on a minute, no

back to point two. You can still go on holiday, you're just

going on a holiday you can afford. You're not going on a holiday that you can't afford. It's not as

if if you don't go on holiday during term time, you're going to spend the entire summer shelling peas, you're just going to go

somewhere cheaper. But more people would be able to afford it if..

I'm talking about you now, you can afford to go on a cheaper holiday during the actual school holidays

Yes, absolutely. Exactly. So you're still going to have lovely memories. Ha-ha! Second point failed twice

Next. So the third point is, and this is particular to my child's school

in primary school as opposed to secondary, except you get exams and all the rest of it later on. But the last

couple of weeks, the kids do almost nothing. It's all about fun days, they have

numerous movies. It's a huge part of the bonding process. It's social

capital It a part of their educational journey into community What would happen if everyone did it Because we up to one in five now What would happen if it was five in five Well maybe the government might set up and take notice and maybe try and impose some sort of limitation on the amount of

So we're encouraging strikes now. We're encouraging children to go on strike in order to change holiday pricing legislation

Perhaps, yeah. Why not? Point three has also failed. It's 11.32. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC

I'm not on a wind-up. I possibly am being a little bit provocative

but I hope not in a performative or obnoxious way. I really mean it. But at the same time

all the parents I'm going to speak to are going to sound persuasive. That's why the rules should be more stringently enforced

because the thing you can't get past is the entitlement. It's fine for me to do it

but obviously it would be awful if everybody did. So why is it fine for you to do it

if it would be awful if everybody did? Here's Dominic Ellis with the headlines

James O'Brien on LBC. It is 11.35. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC

Would you like to have a guess at what 30p Lee Anderson

and his colleagues, presumably his colleagues, I can't imagine he's allowed to operate independently

and Reform UK consider to be hate speech? Because I can show you exactly what they think is not hate speech

what they think should be celebrated. Where do you think their threshold is for complaining about somebody publicly commenting on, for example, politicians

So let's start with Lucy Connolly. You'll be familiar with her. She was jailed for inciting hatred and potentially, of course, inciting violence when she wrote

mass deportation now set fire to all the effing hotels full of the word I can't say on the radio without upsetting Ofcom, for all I care

while you're at it, take the treacherous government and politicians with them

So, literally and publicly calling for politicians to be set on fire

To be set on fire. During a period of our history when there were rampaging mobs on our streets

partly as a consequence of politicians choosing to amplify the racist lies

of the alleged rapist Andrew Tate, or, of course, an important voice for British men, according to Nigel Farage

Partly as a consequence of that, there were rampaging mobs on our streets

during that window of our history, and this woman chose to call for politicians

and, obviously, for asylum seekers to be set on fire. And this is how 30P Lee, Anderson and Nigel Farage's party responded to her

Our Planet Normal guest this week has become a living symbol of two-tier Britain

The sheer injustice she has suffered has shocked millions of people across Britain and indeed across the whole world

She's a wonderful mum, wife, beloved childminder, little kids from every corner of the earth she's taken wonderful care of

So I am, of course, referring to Britain's favourite political prisoner. Ladies and gentlemen, please give the warmest of welcomes to Lucy Connolly

So that is behaviour that gets celebrated. You get a hero's welcome

You get treated like an X Factor winner if you call for politicians to be set on fire

What would be the response from these people to somebody comparing a politician to..

Well, let me read you something from... Unfortunately, it's not in the Daily Mail today

I mean, it's not in the Daily Mail today, not unfortunately at all. It is confined to their website

Reform UK's chairman, Lee Anderson, has demanded a public apology from left-wing LBC presenter James O'Brien over recent comments made about Nigel Farage

So the first thing you think is, flipping heck, he must have said something worse than set them on fire

Right, that's just logic, isn't it? If you're going to take a woman who has called for politicians to be set on fire

and give her a hero's welcome on stage at your party conference

that was two, quote, journalists and quotes, called Alison Pearson and Liam Halligan

who were inviting her onto the stage to her own theme tune

So if they've actually decided to issue a complaint or to demand a public apology

to demand a public apology from me, little old me, I'm terrified I must have said something worse than that

What could you say that would be worse than that? Particularly given recent events involving Anne Widdicombe

I thought, what have I said? I must have said something awful. They've demanded a public apology

The people who gave Lucy Connolly a hero's... Well, let's read more of the article

On Monday, Mr O'Brien took to the airwaves and levelled several furious comments

aimed at the Reform UK leader as tributes continued to flood in for Anne Whittacombe

He dismissed claims Mr Farage has made about attacks on him during the Reform Chief's announcement

that he would resign as MP to fight a pilot. That's all fine. I've got the receipts

I've got the proof. Across his show, the LBC star said, I have seen this all before

I have seen the claims about his security, which generally hinge upon widely reported

or non-existent episodes. That's all true. something about this moment is different from the time he lied about his wheel nuts being

tabbed they're quoting me now here we go so this is the bit that's worse than calling for politicians

to be set on fire are you ready for this i mean i don't know if this is a trigger warning or

a suggestion that you you because you know these people are big believers in free speech

big big believers and say what you like about this lot they really believe in free speech and

they're big defenders of what they call hurty words so even calling for politicians to be set

on fire. It's just hurty words, shouldn't be punished. Let's give her a hero's welcome

on stage at our party comp. What the fudges O'Brien said that is

ten times worse than calling for politicians to be set on fire? Mr O'Brien also made

highly personal ad hominem attacks against Mr Farage during the episode, branding him

a, quotes, and I quote now from the mail online, a horrible excretion

bobbing around in the toilet bowl of public life. He doubled down shortly after

adding he is the unflushable poo, he is the irremovable skidmark on the wide fronts of British politics

So, obviously this is quite funny, but there's a very, very serious point here

about the dangers that our politicians and our political figures face and about the importance of authenticity and honesty

If somebody who calls for politicians to be set on fire, mass deportation now, set fire to all the effing hotels

full of the B words, for all I care, While you're at it, take the treacherous government and politicians with them

That behaviour gets this response. Our Planet Normal guest this week has become a living symbol of two-tier Britain

The sheer injustice she has suffered has shocked millions of people across Britain and indeed across the whole world

She a wonderful mum wife beloved childminder little kids from every corner of the earth She taken wonderful care of So I am of course referring to Britain favourite political prisoner

Ladies and gentlemen, please give the warmest of welcomes to Lucy Connelly

That's the woman who called for politicians to be set on fire

Your friendly neighbourhood radio host who compared a politician to an irremovable skid mark on the wide fronts of British politics

that gets an official complaint. I mean, as I said, it's obviously hilarious

because these are the free speech warriors, these are the free speech bros, these are the people that are adamant

that you've got to relax about hurty words and people shouldn't be punished for the things that they say

doing an admittedly slightly childish joke, I suppose you could call it puerile cold rage

but an admittedly puerile figure of speech, getting this response, this level of anger

and actual calls for politicians to be killed, getting a hero's welcome

You have to keep pointing this stuff out, even if it sounds completely bonkers, because if you don't, God knows what happens next

And I was mildly curious about what sort of, quotes journalist end quotes, would take down this sort of stenography from 30p Lee

So I looked at the byline and it's someone called Christian Calgi, which rang a bit of a bell for me

because he's the bloke that called for Zahra Sultana to be deported

An elected British politician, he took to social media to call for her to be deported

presumably because she's a Muslim. So he posted something about not being able to wait until his taxes don't pay her wages

Someone else replied saying, well, I can't wait until my taxes pay for her to be deported

To which he responded even better. So, I mean, you can almost imagine the conversation, can't you

30 P. Lee saying, oh, we're going to send a letter to James O'Brien's bosses

complaining about him calling Nigel a poo. Who's going to print that? Who's going to run that

What journalist should we... I know just the bloke, Lee. I know just the bloke. Let's get the bloke who called for an elected British politician

to be actually deported because she's brown. He'll run it. He'll stick it in the mail online

Oh, great idea, said Lee. Let's get him now. He's on speed dial

Hello, Christian, I've got a story for you. And so the bloke who wants a politician to be deported for being brown

is writing a story about me comparing Nigel Farage to a poo

while simultaneously inviting onto the stage at their own party conference a woman who called for politicians to be set on fire

This, my friends, is a snowflake moment. James O'Brien on LBC. It's 11.48, you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC

That infamous tweet once again, mass deportation now, set fire to all the effing hotels

full of the B-words for all I care. While you're at it, take the treacherous government

and politicians with them. I suppose you could argue or you could dispute

whether she's calling for the politicians to be set on fire alongside the human beings in hotels

or whether the politicians are just going to be deported for unspecified crimes

But she goes on, I feel physically sick knowing what these families will have to endure

If that makes me racist, so be it. That woman, Lucy Connolly

who got the hero's welcome at the Reform UK conference. But she's out and about again today

Joseph Draper, LBC's reporter, is at CPAC, which is that sort of strange American organisation

where very, very right-wing people gather in largely empty rooms in this country

to warn that the West is under threat or that everybody is in danger of suddenly disappearing

And guess who's there? Liz Truss and, indeed, Lucy Connolly. And almost certainly, or Joseph will correct me if I'm wrong

Nigel Farage at some point as well. And, as you've probably gathered, Joseph Draper too

Joseph, what's going on? Well, I would not blame any of my listeners for not having a clue what CPAC is, James, but it's the conservative political action conference. As you say, if you were a Republican in America, this would be a big part of your schedule. It'd be a huge event. It's a kind of Trump fest, hugely instrumental part of Donald Trump's fan base, really. It's kind of a comic con for right wing figures in America

Liz Truss, over the last few years, has been a frequent appearance there

I think last year she said she wanted a Trump-style revolution in the UK

Well, I think this is her attempt to do that, bringing CPAC here to the UK for the first time

trying to transplant Trumpism, I suppose, to British politics. And she took to the stage yesterday at this hotel where I am now, next to the O2

I will say, James, the crowd here yesterday on the opening day, I think, can fairly be described as threadbare

She took to the stage, in her words, saying that we needed to save Western civilisation from destruction by the progressive left

I mean, that's what she said. Got some applause, but as I say, there were quite a few empty seats

those people who were here, James, spending between £500 and £10,000 for a ticket

It's not a cheap event, this. £10,000? £10,000. What do you get for £10,000

An absolute stone-cold guarantee that Liz Truss won't talk to you. Well, I can tell you what you don't get

You don't get free coffee. Good grief. £10,000? £3 for a coffee here, James

Nice work if you can get it. Sorry, I interrupted you in a state of spluttering incredulity

Carry on, Joe. Yeah, well, presumably those tickets don't get you free coffee. The coffee here, £3 for a cup, and it tastes suspiciously granulated to me

But we've had speakers, James, from right across Europe and the world

right-wing, pretty fringe figures, I must say, Romanian pro-Trump ultranationalists, George Simeon being one of them

who spoke about the great replacement theory and the need to re-emigrate immigrants in the West

Matt Goodwin of Reform UK, he was the candidate, you'll remember James and the Gorton and Denton by-election

claiming on stage yesterday, this is one of the most extreme claims I've heard today or this week

claiming that election was rigged by the so-called Islamo-Green Party. Islamo-Green Party

The Islamo-Green Party. Is that a thing or has he just invented that? well there's no evidence to suggest no but i mean the name i've not heard of this is it a new

splinter group because i mean you've got reform restore reclaim reverberate reflux regurgitate

is there another one of the i mean is there an islamo green party now out there joe i think he

was just referring to i think what he meant was the green party which won that election comfortably

yes i must it must be said that the green party won that by election comfortably but from what he

He said, James, this so-called Islamo-Green party used Muslim Plan networks. But they've looked into this

They've looked into this, Joe. This is what Farage claimed about some family voting or something like that

Yeah, exactly. It's been investigated. Exactly. I mean, look, there is no evidence of this

The authorities have looked into that election. There's no evidence it was rigged

As far as all the evidence says, this was a completely fair election. But clearly, he hasn't come to terms with that loss

He thinks, based on zero evidence that we've seen, that it was rigged by Muslim networks

So that was one of the most extreme comments I've heard at this conference so far, James

And surprisingly as well, the shadow business secretary, Andrew Griffiths, also took to the stage alongside many of these figures

saying people who believe in the UK's net zero targets are no longer welcoming the Conservative Party

But Kemi Baden-Ock used to believe in the net zero targets. Well, there was a report, yes, but there was a report that Kemi Baden-Ock had said no candidates now

in the next election. I saw that, but has she accidentally banned herself from her own party

Potentially, I mean... Well, we need to look into this next week. We may have to, but I mean

clearly, that wasn't confirmed by the Conservative Party before now. That was reporting

on this alleged kind of ban, but as we had a Shadow Business Secretary on stage yesterday

appearing to confirm that new policy, James, of candidates at the next election. So that was an

interesting moment as well. Now, as I said, all this being spearheaded by Liz Truss, former

Conservative Prime Minister, albeit very briefly. Six weeks. Six weeks. There we are. Well, I did

manage to speak to her yesterday, very briefly, James. And I put some of the language that we've

heard today and yesterday to her. We are in a political battle against some quite extreme

elements and that that is very frightening and you've described that as a political battle there

many people would say that some of the language used today is quite extreme and contributes to

that language and that culture of hostility in politics you know we've heard about the enemy

from within you described how western civilization is under attack and needs to be defended is this

not pretty but is this not language that contributes to saying western civilization

is under attack, it needs to be defended, I think is a perfectly

reasonable statement about where we are. Perfectly reasonable statement. Who's it under attack

from? I need to be careful on the way home. The progressive left

For example, who are the progressive? I mean, it's not me, is it? I asked for specific things

Everyone's having a go at me today. It's outrageous. You can't even compare someone to... Anyway

So we don't know. She hasn't named it. No, no specifics. Look out for them anyway later. Be careful

mind how you go carry on uh but also we've had lots of references to to islam and muslims being

the enemy within at this conference as well so lots of extreme language one person who's due to

speak today james as you say is lucy connelly as she was she's the wife of the former conservative

councillor she was jailed you remember for around 12 months for a tweet during the southport riots

in which she appeared to suggest that people should go out and set fire to the asylum hotels

Now, I spoke to her yesterday, James. I put that language to her, and this is what she said

No, I 100% regret what I said. I regretted it at the time. I deleted the tweet on the same day that I wrote it, within hours

I knew that it wasn't the right thing to say. As I said, it's not a representation of who I am and what I really believe

I was just upset. But equally, I don't think, like I said, we should be sending people to prison for words

It is very clear, set fire to all the effing hotels. What is that if not an incitement to violence

For all I care. It's like saying, I don't care if that happens

You know, like, it was a flippant comment, isn't it? Or a horrible one

But it was like, there is no call to direct action. The other side of the coin is the left, as we would say

or the extreme, not even the left, actually, the extreme left, I think, are responsible for that

I think, you know, the left and then the mainstream media and the media channels that are constantly, you know, hounding Nigel Farage, constantly, you know, trying to dig dirt upon reform and calling them Nazis and calling them fascists and racists

It's dangerous. Is saying that the far left wants to destroy Western civilization contributing to that cause you've described as bringing people together

Or is that demonizing your opponents? but that's what they do in politics isn't it they demonize each other and i think again it's

childish i think you said cpac is about getting away from that liz trusted on stage today

and said that western democracy uh western civilization sorry is at risk of being destroyed

by the left but that's liz's opinion james it's not over yet later today we are expecting nigel

farage to come here to deliver his speech of course you are presumably uh the crowd will be

a lot thicker for that than what we've seen so far. Definitely thicker. Possibly

also bigger. Potentially. We'll see. Joseph Draven, live from CPAC, because somebody has to

speaking to Lucy Connolly, who I think, it's fair to say, seemed a bit confused, but then, you know

it's the people who keep pushing her into positions of prominence who are probably to blame for

her embarrassment. It's not as if she asked for these levels of attention, but I presume

they are rather hard to resist. It's fascinating to find out which parts of the mainstream media it is

that are calling this lot Nazis or fascists. Again, it's as if they never have any actual examples

of the things that they're alleging. I remember the images of Nigel Farage

hobnobbing with Rupert Murdoch at Evgeny Lebedev's summer party and yet up pops Lucy Connolly to claim that the mainstream media

are somehow dedicated to attacking them. And you've got the bloke in the mail online today

who last came to public prominence for calling for a British politician to be deported

agreeing with the idea that she should be deported, presumably for the offence of being brown or being a Muslim

But mainstream media is against these people. It's a very odd business, isn't it

And I think you'll agree with me, it's quite important that someone continues to point out the absurdity, the hypocrisy, and the actual unpleasantness of it all

Because as we have seen elsewhere in the world, we know what happens when they don't

We know what happens when politicians try to silence criticism or journalism or even a little light ribbing

James O'Brien on LBC. Three minutes after 12 is the time Andy Burnham has arrived in, I don't know, is it a sports hall

Yeah, it looks like a sports, usually a sports hall. Anyway, he is about to become Labour Party leader

He will be giving a speech, we think, in about seven or eight minutes time

And I am minded to take that live. I wonder how many changes of Prime Minister we would have to have

before we stop taking the early moments of the arrival and the seat of power

Lucy Powell is there, and I think Shabana Mahmood is there as well

So I think we can probably spare ourselves their speeches, but we will definitely want to hear what Andy Burnham has to say

I also thought, having spoken to Joseph Draper there, live from the CPAC conference here in London

where various fruitcakes and weirdos are delivering I thought we cross live have a little bit of a listen to what going on in the conference hall over at Liz Truss special conference at the moment

Maybe we need to reassess our opinions of these people. I haven't got the actual name of that speaker

but I suspect it could have been any of them. And while we're in the mood for some clips

and indeed some allegations of insightful or dangerous language being levelled at me by this lot

Henry's family have responded to this in just the most extraordinarily dignified way

But I suggest the rest of us respond to this with pure, cold rage

The problem was, of course, that Henry's family, Henry Novak, the man that he is referring to, the murdered teenager, categorically requested that people emulate them and their dignity and their understanding and recognition that the murder had nothing to do with race

and their plea for people not to try to turn it into a, their futile plea, in the case of the man whose voice you've just heard

try not to turn it into an opportunity to encourage hatred and or discrimination

I think we were talking about that. I can't remember what specifically the topic was on the 2nd of June

but this happens occasionally. I take a call in completely good faith, and I am usually in these sort of examples

very impressed by a caller and then my inbox starts pinging with people going

James, James, you didn't realise who that was and it happened on the 2nd of June

when we took a call from Ravi This is not an answer

this is not to divide the whites from the browns and the blacks this is we need unity in a time of need in a country

when the statementships are required not politicians politicians like Nigel Farage will use every opportunity because they have no soul

They have no real love for the country. Which other person, individual politician, would light a match

and throw at the country to burn and ask and call for violence

and call for community to go against each other, you know, cause riots and mayhem

No politician, no potential leader would ever do that. And while Ravi was speaking very powerfully and very knowledgeably

and as a Sikh as well, of course, which was relevant to that story

because the character who murdered Henry was ostensibly of the Sikh faith

You started saying to me, James, that's Ravi Singh from Kalsa Aid

And I realized by the number of messages coming in that I needed to find out rather more about Kalsa Aid

and you suggested a way in which I could do so. You suggested that we got Ravi in to do full disclosure

So we did. Tell me about Sarbat Dabala Sarbat Dabala means well-being of all

The Sikhs practice it in every prayer There's prayers daily two, three times

So it always ends in Sarbat Dabala Sarbat is the world, Bala is well-being

So we pray for the well-being of all mankind, all humankind So it's in our blood

We don't say like, oh, may God bless the Sikhs We say may God bless the whole of humanity

That is in every prayer is the strength of who we are. It makes us what we are

which is like that we will, which is like that we cannot sit still

Basically, a seat cannot be comfortable with all the suffering going on. It's ingrained

You have to think about other people, regardless of race or religion. And it's not just abroad

Also here, when there's floods in the UK, whatever, we get stuck in with great friends in Somerset and Yorkshire

So, sir, what about that? Let's not gloss over that, because, I mean, you might go to places

like Kosovo and Afghanistan and Syria, but you also go to Somerset when the floods are in place

Brilliant friendships. And I think you were giving out water to people stuck in the convoys on the way into Dover

That was in 2022, I think it was. A few years ago. So wherever there is need..

We're stuck in. We get stuck in. We have locals here. This is why when you talk about the politics changing, UK politics changing, far-right groups

there are communities that will, you know, will not even touch that area

Hebden Bridge, amazing people. Yorkshire, we helped, Lancashire, Somerset. We got such amazing contact

Now, because of that, every year in Wells, in your cathedral, Wells Cathedral

in Somerset, we do meet the Sikhs. Because of the floods, because the Sikhs went in

they wanted to remember us, so we do that annually now. And become our annual event in August

I think, or July or something. So it's a great sort of like friendships

Now, whenever anything threatens in Somerset or any other parts, they will call us

we need sandbags, we need this. They don't need anything at the moment. Our last floods this year, obviously in Somerset

seems they need anything. There's a very good group called Flag. They do amazing work for the floods and, you know, for the community

So they call us, it's teamwork. What's going to work? You need to be a parent of a certain age

to understand why that word there, Ravi used, just triggered that little song in my mind

But Ravi Singh there, the founder of CalStraight, it is a truly incredible story

of a man who just felt when confronted with both horror unfolding

and a sense of powerlessness, decided to do something about it. And what began as one mercy mission to, I think, Kosovo

has turned into a massive international operation built upon all of the principles that you just heard him explaining

So not only is Kalser Aid an extraordinary organisation, but Ravi is an extraordinary bloke

with an extraordinary story that he tells on this week's episode of Full Disclosure

It is now 10 minutes after 12. I can see that Lucy Powell has just quit the stage

Andy Burnham is due to be named as the new Labour Party leader

Is it worth hearing the naming, do we think? I can tell you a couple of things that are coming up a little bit later in the programme

I want Simon Marks to talk to us about this bizarre address, and I'm afraid in Simon's case, predicted address

that Donald Trump gave to his undeserving nation yesterday. The prediction that he was going to attempt to, at the very least

muddy the waters of the coming midterm election has come to grim fruition

and Simon will be able to talk us through that while limbering up for his shift in this chair from 4 o'clock

And we'll pick up with Natasha. We'll catch up with Natasha Clark as well after we've heard from Andy Burnham

to have a little think about the speech that he's just given

And I may also have time to canvas your quick opinions on what we hear from Andy Burnham in the next sort of five minutes or so

I'd love to do that, by the way. So stand by, make sure that you are listening

And then if there's time, I'll find out what you think about what you heard

We may hear a little more detail regarding the insistence, the ambition, the determination to move stuff

I need a better word than stuff. Power focus away from London and into the regions Not just the north as I somewhat unhelpfully suggested at the very top of the programme today but into all of the regions all of the parts of the country that may feel that too much attention is paid to

too much focus remains on, and too much money gravitates towards the capital of these islands, London

So, Shabana Mahmood is the chair of the Labour's National Executive Committee

and therefore the person charged with announcing the new Labour leader, which I think would be quite a nice moment to witness

2026. This is the formal bit. Following the resignation of Sir Keir Starmer as Labour's leader

the NEC set out the procedures and timetable for a contest to seek his replacement

The returning officer has informed me that the requirements of that contest have now been met

It's hardly a nail-biter, folks. And so, despite the efforts of a lone MP, I can confirm..

I can confirm that there was only one eligibly nominated candidate. Following the period of nominations by Labour MPs

one candidate received 379 nominations. Having met the threshold of 20% of the parliamentary Labour Party

they were eligible to proceed to the next stage. One other candidate received one nomination

and is not eligible to proceed. Among the affiliated trade unions and social societies

the one eligible candidate received 23 nominations in total. This included nominations from all 11 trade unions

comprising well over 5% of the affiliated membership. There being no other eligibly nominated candidate

it is therefore my honour to declare that the duly elected leader of the Labour Party is Andy Burnham

Thank you. Woo

Woo! And some clapping. Cock is wearing a nice burgundy tie. Can't wait till Monday, there'll be loads of this

Stay tuned. I'm doing it in the grown-up studio as well, the one that Andrew Marr's normally in

It's going to be really exciting. I might not leave. Thank you

God help us all. A nice warm round of applause for Andy Burnham

who is about to speak. Thank you so much, friends. What a moment

And what backing you've given me. All our affiliated trade unions, all our socialist societies

379 of our MPs, and I don't need to say commiserations to Catherine West

because she backed me too. Thanks, Catherine. all of them heard the call from the people of Makerfield

on behalf of forgotten places everywhere up and down this country for a return of the Labour they once knew

And now we answer that call. We will be that version of Labour again

we are united today as holly said as lucy said and shabana said and thank you so much for your words

we are united and we put the power that comes from that unity at the service of people and places

who have been waiting too long for politics to let them hope again that's what we're going to do

everybody. We're going to give them hope back. This is a proud moment you have given me and my

family today and an emotional one. But it is one for which I am ready. I am ready. Ready to lead

and to build on the foundation laid by one person more than any other. Under Keir Starmer's

leadership, we went from our worst defeat to one of the best victories in our history

Keir put Labour back in a position to change people's lives, and that is what we have been

doing these last two years. New rights for workers and for renters. NHS waiting lists

falling for the first time in years. In fact, since I was Health Secretary, I think, so

well done Wes. Rail back under public control. Britain's reputation rebuilt on the world stage

and as Lucy said just this week the biggest rebalancing of the scales of justice this

country has ever seen. Today we thank Keir for his service to our party and to our country

Ten years ago, he and I worked together drawing up the original Hillsborough law in my office

in the aftermath of the second Hillsborough inquest. And I drew on all of his legal expertise when I presented that bill to Parliament

To be in Parliament on Tuesday when Keir delivered on his promise to the Hillsborough families

and all of the other campaigners who were part of the Hillsborough Law Now campaign

A promise to end the cover-up culture in this country. To pass power from the authorities to ordinary people

and to prevent anyone in future going through what the Hillsborough families did

It felt to me like life coming full circle. My journey to this stage today began in earnest at Anfield in April 2009

The COP made me confront the fact that this country does not work for working class communities like the city of my birth

In fact, it's worse. It turned its back on them. Political power was used viciously against them to protect vested interests

economic power cruelly stripped with the de of the 1980s as it was against so many places up and down the land

And let us never forget, these are the very same places that built this Labour movement, this trade union movement where we are today, Paul

Those are the places, but they were the places that were done down

This labour movement, the trade union movement was forged in the steelworks and ironworks of Sheffield

Shorpe, Port Talbot and Teesside in the coal fields of South Wales, Central Scotland

Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Yorkshire and Lancashire in the mills across the Pennines, West and East

in the shipyards on the Klein and on the Tyne and in the dockyards of Liverpool and here in London

The people of these proud places made Labour. But we have to ask ourselves, just as I had to ask myself at Anfield that day

have we been good enough for them? Change starts with honesty. We must recognise that this generation of politicians, myself included

have failed to challenge a political culture and an economic model that simply doesn't work well enough for ordinary people

Four decades of the neoliberalism that began in the 1980s have not been kind to the places that built our party

nor to the communities across the UK in rural and coastal areas

so we pledge today to them to be better and as I accept the honour of leading this party forward

I will tell you about five things I will do to make us so to make us better

first I will work relentlessly to build a culture of one labour team because change starts with us

We won't beat Britain's new right if we are consumed by infighting and pulling in different

directions. That is and always has been an indulgence that falls heaviest on the people

who need Labour most. Fighting to eradicate it and the insidious briefing culture that

goes along with it will characterise my leadership. In future, when a Burnamite walks into a bar, as many Burnamites are known to do, talking

about you Kevin, in future when a Burnamite walks into a bar, I want the barman to say

to say, great to see you. We don't like factional politics in here. Now you might know, and your

reaction suggests so, there's a different version of that joke told by people who put internal

politics before anything else. But here's the truth. Their factionalism has bedeviled us

Today we move beyond it. I have supported all our Labour leaders in my lifetime because I believe

a united Labour Party and Labour movement is the best hope for our country. And I know you

believe that too, as do our members up and down the land

And I will lead this party in that spirit. Not seeking to suspend or punish members who have principled views that may be different from mine

But building unity by respecting all shades of opinion. And contrary to what you may keep on reading, I haven't made any decisions yet about who will be in that top team

But I will soon. And when I have, you will see it reflects all parts of our party, all communities

And it will reflect your own place within this great party of ours

A stronger, more united Labour Party lifting up a stronger and more united Britain

And this brings me to my second change. I will work to build a new politics

The country is crying out for it. We might enjoy the point scoring against others

The public don't. How can politicians point fingers when living standards are falling

and politics as a whole isn't working for them? It infuriates them and makes them switch off

In Makerfield, I decided to make a break with this. I said we hadn't been good enough

I told people what I would do to fix it. You know what

People started to listen again. They gave us a fair hearing, as the great British public always do

And then another chance. But let's be honest, everybody. This is a last chance to change

And we must take it together. United together. Tell people what we will do, rather than always going on about others

And if we do more of that, let's see if we can get the ear of the country as well, not just make a field

Let's take a problem-solving rather than a point-scoring approach. Let's have the courage to fix the big things that politics has neglected, like social care

and have the conviction to go out there together and argue for our plans

And let's have the self-confidence to find common ground with other parties where we can

By seeking more consensus, we may just find the change we make is more lasting

we may find our political discourse in this country becomes that little bit less toxic

and we should be working to achieve that too. And the turbulence of the last decade may not quite feel as so inevitable as it does today

My third change is our political direction. Yes, we will work with other parties where we can, but doing so from the clarity of knowing exactly where we stand

As your leader, I will set a direction that is distinctively Labour

We won't try to out-green the Greens, or out-reform reform, or doing what we've done in the past

of wearing too many Tory clothes. Let me tell you, I'm quite happy that Kemi doesn't approve

of my wardrobe choices, because I'm not keen on theirs either. From here we do it differently

We win by being us. Boldly, confidently, authentically us. Labour. That's how we win

I want people to understand the thinking behind the political direction I set so people can

see the decisions we take and the reasons why. I am clear, Britain took a series of wrong turns

in the 1980s. Political power was centralised and economic power was privatised. The country

surrendered control of the essentials, housing, water, energy, transport and left people exposed

to higher costs. That in turn led to the concentration of more wealth and power in the

hands of fewer people and fewer places. Large parts of Britain were de-industrialised without

the power to set new ambitions for themselves. Proud British towns now a shadow of what they

once were and high streets in decline so common up and down the country. Slowly at times

imperceptibly over four decades political and economic power drained away out of our communities

in every region and nation of the UK. If local places don't control something as basic as a bus

service how can they connect people to opportunity and turn things around? If the sell-off of council

homes, leaves the country chasing rents in the private rented sector through the benefits system

and paying for temporary accommodation for thousands of families as they have to do here

in London and elsewhere across the country. How then will we find the money to invest in prevention

and improve people's lives? The truth is we can't. And if we don't have sufficient public control

over the cost of the essentials? How can we have control over inflation

public spending and the rest of the economy? The right used the phrase, take back control

but they are the ones who gave it away in the first place. if we want an economy and a country that works for all people and places which to me

should always be at the very core of labourism then it requires a new path to the one we've been on

for the last 40 years. The government I lead will confidently lay that path out starting next week

and that is why this change today is the most significant change moment in our politics for 40

years. It will take us to a country where life is more affordable and all people and places are

lifted from where they are now. And conference, this is my fourth commitment to you. I mean it

when I say all places. I will be a leader for the north, the south, the east and the west

for Scotland, Wales and for Northern Ireland. Yes, the north of England has given me so much. Everything, in fact. And in return

I have sought to give it the strongest voice I could. That was my job. But now I do the

same for everywhere. Because I see the same challenges everywhere I look. The same challenges

can be found in the Southwest as the Northwest or in East Anglia as the Northeast. And this

is the moment to speak for all parts of the country and unite people in a common cause

I love every part of this country. I love all the different accents

all of the different traditions, some of the football clubs. But no, I love every part of it

But I also know they can all be more than they are. And that's what kind of drives me in politics

the kind of feeling that they should be more than they are

The feeling that kids shouldn't have to leave those places, those proud places to get on in life

We should make them more than they are. Help them take power to be more than they are

And this brings me to my fifth and final promise. We will take power back from Westminster and Whitehall

and give it to the place where you live. more power over life's essentials so you can make them work better and more affordable for people

Just as my good friend Steve Rotherham is doing today as we are here meeting at the TUC in London

He is at a meeting, chairing a meeting of the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority

And he is presenting to that meeting a plan to put the entire Mersey Rail network back in public ownership by 2028

A plan to cut fares, make trains run on time, and a railway run in the interests of the passengers, not shareholders

we want to give your area more power to build the council and social homes that you desperately need

for those families I was talking about a moment ago. More power to improve your high street backing local businesses

such as the pubs and the shops that bring them to life

And make no mistake everybody, I will be a pro-business leader of the Labour Party

as I was a pro mayor of Greater Manchester We turn places round together and that is the way we ran in Manchester and we will take to the whole country And as part of that more power to re and to build an education

system based on parity between academic and technical education to give every young person

growing up in different parts of the country a path in life to university or to a work placement

to apprenticeship and into a good job hope for every young person is what we are going to be

about and this is it when you add all of that together a plan to give people more power to

bring back the hope we have all been missing too much and people are looking for us to deliver

and we will. So everybody, you're here and you're sharing this moment with me. Thank you so much

for being with me. I've had a long journey through politics to get to this moment, as you all know

because so many of you in here and so many others watching this on television know what they did to

help me along my way and knock me into shape as they needed to do. I want to, if I may, just single

out three. I was his parliamentary private secretary in my first experience of the front

bench, but he has been the truest mentor to me in the decades since, and it's just wonderful

to be with you. Lord Blunkett, David, on this special day. I would say he taught me everything I know, but no, he didn't. It's certainly not about

football. But it is wonderful to have you at this moment with me, David. Can I also say to Dame

Margaret Beckett, you were a wonderful friend to me and guide throughout my time in the Cabinet

You were always there for me to give me that nudge that I needed. And similarly, as with David

I am so proud, honoured that you are with us today. And sitting next to Margaret, for those of you who want somebody to blame

he is the man you can you can hold to account he is the man that fired up a young Andy Burnham in

the northwest of England in the mid-1980s with rhetoric of the kind that remains unmatched I

would say in modern politics it has always been something that I treasure to get a message

from him with his advice and the care and the thought he puts in to those messages. They mean

everything to me. I would not be standing here. I would have not have joined this great party of

ours in 1985 had it not been for the legend that is Neil Kinnock. It's absolutely brilliant

to have you with us today. So many of you here who I can't name, so many watching have helped me get here

I haven't done it alone. I haven't got everything right. And I'm sorry where I've fallen short

But I have always given it my all. And I always will

Thank you. Truly, I've given this party everything I've had, but now it's done the same for me

I have listened and learned as I've gone along, you'll be pleased to know

And hopefully I've got better as a result. You can be sure of this. I know what I believe after 25 years as an elected Labour representative

And I know what I want to do working with you all. I have a plan

And what I also want you to know is that I won't change

I have a style, it's my style. I will always stay close to the ground, close to the people

hopefully still in my season ticket when the new season starts. In Cardiff on Tuesday, brilliant just to meet and chat to people as they came up to speak

I will always stay the same because I draw my strength from people. I hear things pick up

straws in the wind as I was going about Manchester as my job as mayor. And I say to Kevin Lee

who's here today, and I want to thank Kevin, who's been such a staunch supporter and friend

for me on this journey. I would bring a little idea from Greg's or the pub or wherever, and he'd

say, well, this is hardly from a think tank. What am I meant to do with this? But that's how we did

it, just to be close and listen. And that's what I'll do. I'll be out and about in August

in all parts of the UK, definitely in the South, and I'm off to Gravesend later

to show I'm for the South too. That's the way I've always done it. And it made me really proud recently

you might call it faint praise, but I took it as very

serious praise. Someone said recently, Andy's alright. He's for us. I was

so proud of that, that I made it my slogan in Bakerfield. I am for us For all of us And I want people to say once again that Labour are for us

I want that to just fall off people's tongues and we can do it

We can be that party, the party that puts more power in people's hands

drives good growth in every postcode and puts hope in every heart

that gets the country pulling together again and moves beyond the divisions of recent years

All people and all places, public and private sectors, in a new sense of unity and common cause

That's my mission as your new leader, to bring back hope. I believe in all of you and I am confident we can do it

Thank you very much. Andy Burnham are quite, quite emotional, a bit of New Order there at the end

Oh, just got me there. I'll play. Andy Burnham there delivering a speech

about which I have, I think, two things to say. One speaks to the world of fairness

and one speaks to the world of unfairness. I think the fairness is reflected in the fact

that he has clearly been preparing for this moment for a heck of a lot longer

than the leadership gossip was unfolding. Listen, we can all be proved wrong

and it is, as ever, the hope that gets you. we can cope with the despair, it's the hope that gets you every time

but he was talking, particularly as I mentioned to you earlier, with reference to the work he's done with Steve Rotherham

and the book that they wrote together, he has been putting together a project, putting together a plan

putting together a vision, and the ease with which he could hit five quite distinct and clear points

with regards to ambition, I thought was excellent. Speaking to a world of unfairness

he sounds really fluent and human. And unfortunately, Keir Starmer didn't and doesn't

And that is unfair. That shouldn't matter. It is not a reflection of whether or not you have a..

whether or not you are doing a good job as a politician or a prime minister in your office

But of course, a big part of the job is what you do behind the podium, is what you do on the stage

and that was, you know, it was pretty good, wasn't it? It was pretty good

It was very persuasive. It was what an awful lot of people want to hear and it was delivered with a real sense of authenticity

The problem with authenticity is that you can fake it and be brilliant and you can be it and not seem it

That's what's unfair. That's what I'm talking about. But I said to Eleanor about two years ago

now about a year ago, when I thought that the writing was appearing on the wall for Keir Starmer, even though not everybody was prepared to admit it at the time

that the next one has to have a northern accent, which is a glib, throwaway line

But it was shorthand for me, for the opposite of glitching. It wouldn't have to be a northern accent

You know, you could sound like Danny Dyer, but you shouldn't sound like me. The next leader of the Labour Party should not sound like me

They should sound like they belong to the communities that they used to represent

And Andy Burnham does. He just does. And it matters. Because votes are cast for a million different reasons

For 40 million different reasons. And although he ain't no Barack Obama, as Charlie has texted me to say

he was a heck of a lot better than we have become used to in recent years

I'm going to rattle through some text. I'm going to take a break. And then I think we're going to catch up with Simon Marks about events in the United States last night

Because they are desperately important. Sheila, no doubt, will be inviting your views

on the speech that you've just heard from Andy Burnham, so you can reserve your space on the switchboard for that

My apologies to Alistair and Lorraine and Nicola and Linda and David and Pamela and Ryan and Mark

and all the people wanting to talk to me about school holidays

But here is, by way of a quick canvas, Suzette. Burnham talks a good talk, but my flame of hope is so fragile, James

I'm not willing to sacrifice it until I see some proof. Politicians always say what they think we want to hear

They need to understand we no longer have faith in their words. We judge them by their actions

I disagree, Suze. I mean, I obviously agree with you, but I think you missed one point

which is politicians always say what they think we want to hear, true

How they say it matters. How they say it matters. And how he said it then was good

He will do better than Starmer, says Elise. He is leaning into his feelings and what he stands for personally

which we never really got from Starmer. Elise, they're addressing what I described as the world of unfairness

because she's right and it's not fair. We shouldn't be judging them on these things, but we do

Lauren, all my messages so far from women. This is probably one of the most authentic speeches

I've seen a politician deliver recently. Time for the men. Jonathan, listening to him speak

I'm reminded of why he lost to Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. So it's not all positive

Jane writes, a Burnamite, he talks a good talk. He'll make mistakes, he'll hack us off

but let's hope it largely works out for all our sakes. Yes, he may be a bit egotistical

What on earth is wrong with that, Jane? But that doesn't matter too much if someone has genuine empathy

Andrew writes, feeling very optimistic listening to Andy Burnham speak. Andy writes, he's no Martin Luther King

Well spotted, Andy. Hey James, writes Dave, by contrast, I'm getting the same excited feeling

as when Tony Blair walked into number 10. And Lynn, a little more cynically, writes

and I will give you the sun, the moon and the stars

James O'Brien on LBC. It's 12.50. Quick heads up to next week's programmes

10 o'clock Monday morning. Is it time for Andy Burnham to resign? That's a joke I stole shamelessly off Simon Marks, who has joined me in the studio now

to talk not about British politics, although I suspect you may be touching on that

when you are sitting in this chair from 4 o'clock this afternoon, but about US politics

And this is quite nuanced, isn't it? This speech that Trump gave

Let's begin with why we're not going to play any clips from it. Well, I mean, we could play clips from it, but I think that it would be giving voice to a speech that was entirely fact-free

I mean, we knew going into this presidential address, this primetime presidential address

the kind of thing that presidents book when they've got major announcements to make to the American people regarding the affairs of state

Wars, paying tribute to the deaths of people that have died in disasters, whatever it happens to be

and you know last night ABC NBC and CNN didn't carry the president's remarks live because we

all knew that they were going to be dominated by what he claims is fresh evidence that the 2020

yes six years ago the 2020 presidential election was rigged and really I mean he ranted and he

raged last night he once again insisted that Joe Biden election victory had been rigged that it was all the result of a vast global conspiracy stretching from China to Venezuela that it involved the deep state that it involved the

far-left radical wing of the Democratic Party that he now refers to as communists, that the

media were an integral part of the plot, which is why he insisted ABC and NBC were not carrying

his remarks last night. But there is not a shred of truth to any of it. They published

thousands and thousands of pages of documents last night, a trove of documents that they said

prove that the 2020 presidential election was rigged. There is no evidence that can be found

in those documents that back up those assertions. And indeed, after it was all over, and we are

going to play this later today on LBC in my American Week. After this was over, John Solomon

who's now a presidential advisor, was a journalist until they took him into the White House

He's been amplifying these claims of election, the election being rigged for six years. He was

collared by reporters in the White House driveway who said, hang on a second, can you just confirm

that there is no evidence to support the view that a single vote was flipped

as the result of Chinese or Venezuelan interference in the election. And he said, well, all I can do is go with what the intelligence community says

And the intelligence community says, yeah, it didn't change a single vote. But I'm still researching it

He's had six years to research it. But there was a darker side to this speech, James

This speech was a warning to America. This was not just a man giving voice to the usual flim-flam about election integrity and I was robbed

This is a warning to America three and a half months before the midterm elections

that he is not going to recognize the outcome of midterm elections unless the Republicans win them

And there were voices last night back in Washington, some of them people who had worked within Trump's administration in the first term

saying that they believe that this speech was designed to lay the groundwork

for the deployment of ICE agents and Border Patrol at polling stations in November

in a bid to intimidate voters, and a warning to America that if Democrats win these midterm elections

he is going to refuse to accept the outcome, litigate, try and delay the moment when Democrats

should be forming a majority in the House of Representatives and the Senate if they win

and that this is all preface to what's going to be coming down the road in late November and December

This is a Hollywood movie plot, isn't it? This is the press, it's the Hunger Games or something like that

The president addressing the nation with a farrago of lies, blatant, provable, obvious lies

in the hope that he will bring enough of the population with him to upend democracy itself

Not only did the documents they published last night fail to prove that China interfered in the election

to the point where they were tipping it in Joe Biden's favour, but the documents, when you look at them

actually do reveal that the Russia-Russia-Russia hoax perhaps was not a hoax after all

and that, in fact, the Russians were engaged in malign actions trying to boost Donald Trump's ability to win that race

and also, as we know, the 2016 race against Hillary Clinton that he did win

Indeed, and of course none of it addresses the question of why if they were so successful at rigging this in 2020

they failed so abjectly to do so in 2024, in exactly the same electoral system

And huge questions for his CIA director, John Ratcliffe, who was in post in 2020 during the first Trump term

and absolutely, I mean, you've got to wonder whether he's going to stay in post

because of this appalling series of developments. On his watch, as it were

On his watch, nothing was done about. Where do we look now? What could make a difference

You've mentioned three of the biggest broadcasters electing not to take the thing

the broadcast itself, the address itself, but the Oval Office is going to be full, sadly, including some British journalists

of people who will suck up all of the lies, regurgitate them, and disseminate them, to whom do we look now for resistance to what is clearly underway

Well, I'll tell you one person I think everybody should be looking at more than we have been

and it's Senator John Ossoff of Georgia. He is increasingly proving to be an extremely effective voice for the Democrats

both on Capitol Hill and in his native Georgia, as he tries to seek his own re-election this November to the Senate

he has been challenging Trump and Trump officials continuously constantly pointing out the extent of the corruption that has enriched the president

and his family over the course of just the last 16 months since President Trump returned to office

and I think he's becoming definitely a horse to watch in the race for 2028

but ultimately you know I think there's going to be a massive test for the American people

coming up in November. If the Democrats win the midterms or if Trump insists that, you know

he takes action to suppress the vote, particularly minority votes, with all of the gerrymandering

that's taking place across the South now approved and authorized by the Supreme Court

to build these new congressional districts, these new constituencies that will favor Republicans

there's going to be a real, there's going to be a Donnybrook coming where the future of American democracy

is at stake, and we have to see where that goes and how it plays out

I'm so glad you're here, for all the obvious reasons, but also because it is absolutely impossible

to exaggerate the jeopardy of the situation, the peril of the situation. It is very hard to overstate it

I mean, the more that we talk about this, and then, you know, Trump supporters

and they're a dwindling band of them who accuse us all of Trump derangement syndrome and insist, no, no, no, no, he's telling the truth

you know, he's pure as the driven snow. he's telling us in plain sight what he is going to do it is evident they are taking steps day by

day week by week to game the outcome of the midterms the only elections this man recognizes

as free and fair are the ones that republicans win yikes time and marks more from you after

after four o'clock live on lbc when you will be in this chair in a few moments sheila fogarty will

because that is it from me for this week. If you've missed any of today's show

you can catch up on Global Player or, of course, at the LBC app

where you can stay up to date with all the latest news, videos and opinions. You can also listen to a range of podcasts

including James O'Brien Daily, the best bits from my LBC show every day

So do download the official LBC app from wherever you get your podcasts now

including Full Disclosure with the magnificent, of course, Ravi Singh. A bit different on Monday, as I said

from 10 o'clock. Is it time for Andy Burnham to... No, I'm joking. I stole that joke

on Simon Marks. I want to give a full credit where it's due. We'll be live streaming

from Westminster throughout the day on Monday, starting from 7am. I will be in the grown-up studio

that is normally reserved for Andrew Marr, because we're going to do it like proper telly

I'll be going full Dimbleby in my attempts to commentate on the event of that important day

so do tune in for that. I'm going to get a haircut. Oh, I wasn't. Why is it

Oh, thanks. No, I'm kidding. Cheers. I might brush it. Telly, innit? No, I need a haircut

I should have got one before I went on holiday, but I don't know. Anyway, download the official LBC app for free

from your app store now. Coming up at four on LBC, Simon Marks is in for Tom Swarbrick

but now it's time for Sheila Charms School Fogarty. They gave me my money back