'Nigel Farage is scared of being mocked' | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

Good morning, it's three minutes after ten

Is there a German word for the reaction that you have, the way your ears prick up

when you hear an area you know very well in the news

I mean, London doesn't work, does it? But, you know, your part of London does

So, you know, Tower Hamlets or Stoke Newington or Brentford or whatever, Chiswick it is, you know, that little thing

a national news story that speaks to your locale, there should be, shouldn't there

There should totally be a German word to describe that feeling. There probably is

If there isn't a thing about German, I'm told, is they're quite easy to make up

You can invent your own little compound word to describe it. Because I had a big dose, a really nasty dose of that last night

when it was reported on the news that Stourbridge, which is just a couple of stops down the old train line

from Kidderminster where I grew up, that Stourbridge was at the centre of the latest wildfires

with the, you know, extremely rare headline reporting that houses were catching fire

And I know exactly where they are. They're back onto the golf course in Stourbridge. In fact, so on my patch is this story

that one of the first things I noticed this morning was that three people had marked themselves as safe

on my Facebook account because they are so near to the action

so near to the activity. We will, of course, be returning to that topic

a little bit later in the programme because, inevitably, our attention is drawn first to Clacton

And if there is a German word to describe the feeling you get when your own locale is mentioned in national news

which isn't normally in national news, and then suddenly it is, then you must have overdosed on it in Clacton lately

if you're from Clacton-on-Sea or its environs, you must be channeling Brenda from Bristol a little bit

Oh, no, not another one. And, of course, it is, I think, possible, if not likely

that there will be another one in Clacton soon when the investigation into Nigel Farage's finances is completed

by the Parliamentary Commissioner, an investigation which, of course, begins again today

There have been some reports that he didn't realise that that was going to happen

that he thought by calling a by-election he would somehow cease the inquiry

It would no longer be of interest to the Parliamentary Commission that he secretly accepted £5 million

from an economic migrant called Christopher Harbourn who also operates under a tie name that I can never remember

but which I should probably manage to programme it into my consciousness so that I can mention it every time I mention him

It has been reported that he and people around him didn't understand that this would do nothing

to halt that inquiry and would instead merely postpone it. And fair play to the Parliamentary Commissioner

for having already updated their website this morning to report that that's it

Yeah, it is now back. It took them moments. It took them minutes to do so

because, you know, these are proper democratic values. These are really important issues

of whether or not our politicians are in the pay of plutocrats

and billionaire. Well, we know he is in the pay of a billionaire, an economic migrant based

in Thailand. But what we don't know yet is whether or not rules were broken

in secretly accepting that money or still despite three, four, five different explanations from him

why he was given the money in the first place. They're all looking quite

petulant, Richard Tice in particular. What did I say last time Nick went in quite hard

on Nigel Farage? Did I say it was like Dan and Angie Watts breaking up on EastEnders? I mean, if that was the first sign of trouble in the relationship between my esteemed colleague and Nigel Farage, then today was probably the serving of divorce papers, I think

I don't know that the interview with Richard Tice will have landed very well at Reform HQ

And fair play. This isn't, by the way, a criticism of anyone except Richard Tice for being a big, petulant, scaredy cat

Although, of course, compared to his boss, he's practically He-Man. because his boss has demonstrated almost unbelievable

poor judgment and cowardice. Cowardice is a tricky word. It's one that people like Nigel Farage never hesitate to use

He had the audacity this morning, and I'll remind you of this in just a moment. He had the absolute audacity to bring the war dead

into his explanation of why he would be bottling the count because he was frightened of being laughed at

And, I mean, you might be more offended by the claim that he'd been told that he wasn't saved by Essex police

which Essex police have subsequently denied. That is, I suppose, objectively or operationally more offensive

But morally, the idea that somehow him being too snowflakey to attend a count that would no doubt contain mockery

it's called free speech, of course, which he ordinarily pretends to care passionately about

Free speech and mockery, just jokes, remember? You're allowed to make jokes

You can make homophobic and racist jokes, but not jokes about Nigel

That seems to be where the party's position on free speech has landed

But to bring the war, to bring the world wars into it

Maybe it's just me that's bulking at this, because I have probably a slightly stronger stomach than most for his behaviour

But we'll get on to that. The word cowardice. I'm going to say something that may surprise you

I'm going to suggest... I'm not going to suggest, I'm actually going to urge Nigel Farage to stop using the language of violence

Not just because I'm worried about what his admirers might do, but because I think we should all be worried what his detractors might do

I find it almost inconceivable that in the week of Anne Whittacombe's funeral

he'd be bringing the war into a justification of his own snowflakery

It's a nicer word than cowardice. His own fears of being laughed at

It is breathtaking. You know that he's talked about pure cold rage. You know that many people consider him partly responsible for the riots that followed

the horrible killings in Southport. You know that he talked about picking up a rifle

and donning khaki in the event of Brexit not being delivered. But it occurred to me, only in the last couple of weeks actually

I wrote about it in yesterday's paper, it occurred to me that if you turn up the temperature

you don't get to decide who gets hot you don't get to confine the responses to the people you're appealing to

you create a political context a political conversation in which violent language is becoming more normalized

then you don't get to decide who is going to respond to that unfortunately i mean it would be

almost as awful if you did but i just i just would urge him to remember that it's not just

going to be his admirers that hear him talking about picking up rifles and um and pure cold rage

and taking to the streets and all these flirtations that he always had with um public disorder or refusing to condemn the violence of course repeatedly in the house of commons at pmqs after um the the murder of henry novak the conviction of henry novak murderer

um don't do it anymore nigel please because it is for those of us who consider politics to be

um essentially an honorable business it is it is really dangerous so stop all right and i'm now

going to go back to mocking you because there is a huge huge difference between talking about pure

cold rage or talking about rifles or talking about khaki or talking about violence without

being able to condemn it and laughing at someone who's made a complete fool of himself because that

is what has happened overnight it is it is objectively hilarious but we live in two parallel

countries now we live in a country where nigel farage's party has been at the top of almost all

the opinion polls since the last general election pretty much since since you know a couple of weeks

after the last general election but we also live in a country where the leader of that party has

increasingly and you can tell this not by the reaction of people who've known it all along

like me but people who haven't actually seen through it until relatively recently you can tell

um what a ridiculous human being he is by the events of the last 12 hours i mean objectively

and measurably ridiculous. The effort you would have to put in to

defending him or pretending that this isn't the ultimate embarrassment is superhuman

Of course, many, many people will. Dominic's already tried. He's written, shut up, moron

in a message to the studio. So that's what support for Nigel. Stop telling the truth, you moron

I'm feeling really, stop holding up a mirror, because that thing I'm seeing in the mirror

moron, moron! And I'll play the clip in a minute at Farage explaining that he's not scared

I'll play it to you now. He's not scared of being laughed at. He's definitely, definitely not scared of being laughed at

Absolutely. How dare you even suggest that... Right, here it is. And by the way, I'm not scared of these people. Far from it

Of course you're not, mate. So why aren't you there then? So either, and Essex police have made it clear

that he received no caution against turning up. And of course, one of the explanations he's given

for the secretly gifted £5 million is that he was spending it all on security

So I hope he kept the receipts. You can spend £5 million on security

and not be secure in a vote counting Clacton-on-C despite the police saying that you are secure

That surely grounds for some sort of refund. I'm beginning to wonder whether Christopher Harbourn

kept his receipts, actually, for the £5 million in the first place. But he's definitely not scared

By the way, I'm not scared. Absolutely not scared. So what is he then

He's definitely not really celebrating. We actually now have a line up, a live line to Nigel Farage

We're going to be able to put some of these questions to him directly

So, Keith, just alert the newsroom, will you? We've got him online too. That is why he didn't turn up to the Count in Clacton last night

That is why he hid, stayed at home, or in the company of his admirers, because he was absolutely terrified of this

So, there are two countries, there are two UKs. There is Brexit Britain, and then there is Britain

And in Brexit Britain, he remains an attractive figure, he remains a popular figure, he is of course

He's still at the top of almost all of the polls until very, very, very recently

And at the same time, he is, I mean, truly ridiculous now

Not dangerous. I mean, I still think he's quite dangerous, politically speaking

But he is, I mean, absolutely ridiculous. The thing that these people fear most is mockery

Absolutely mockery. mockery, the thing that they are absolutely incapable of dealing with is mockery and laughter

That's why he's currently under a table somewhere, metaphorically speaking, because the mockery is what he couldn't bear

The mockery is what caused him to lie about security risks. The mockery is what caused him to reach for an obscene comparison with the world wars

the fear of mockery will drive a man like Nigel Farage into almost any humiliation that spares him the confrontation of the laughter, the confrontation with the laughter

So, I mean, you know what's happened now. What I want you to tell me is whether you think this by-election has made any difference

And you can answer no to that question. but um it it's a bit like trump isn't it and he is of course our team who trump and the idea that

now nobody can argue that donald trump isn't the paragon of moral depravity i mean it is impossible

you've got you've got sailors trying to jump off a ship in the gulf because donald trump has sent

them on his stupid ludicrous war and they're breaking all the records for deployment and and

and suffering mental health trauma, the likes of which some of them may never recover from

while he's still claiming that he's already won it. I mean, it is, as we've observed many times on this programme

it is beyond ysis now. And everyone talks about his plummeting approval ratings

but I find it unbelievable that he still has one supporter. Do you see what I mean

I mean, you look at the incontrovertible evidence of his absolute awfulness

and everybody goes, God, look at these historically low approval ratings. I don't. I'm weird. I go, how can anybody still be on board

How can 20%, 30% still think he's anything other than awful? I mean, even if you hated the Democrats

surely by now you'd have to be saying, this guy's not the full ticket

He shouldn't be doing this. We can't be going along. So it's the clinging to it that I find fascinating

And it's that today that I'm wondering about. whether or not this will change anything for the hardcore, as it were, for the base

But I also want to know what you think. I just simply want you to tell me what you are going to take away from this by-election

What is your reading of it? You can be as clever or as silly as you want

It can be a political ysis. You can talk about how perhaps now you are going to be looking at the wheels coming off the Farage bus

or you could be simply reflecting on how much you've enjoyed it

how much you've enjoyed the humiliation. The first thing you need to do is ring in. Here's the number, 0345 6060973

I think we'll probably have a little bit more fun than usual

with the kind of people who are unlikely to ring me, but I hope you do, seriously

Shut up, moron, for example. Am I listening to CBeebies or a news channel

Get rid of O'Brien, says James. I am, as you know, fascinated by the contortions you have to undertake

to pretend that your man didn't just humiliate himself on a most extraordinary scale Um I am genuinely fascinated to see what you will do to pretend otherwise to literally stare into a mirror and pretend that you not seeing a massive mug

But at the same time, there could be something a little bit more serious going on. We could be looking at something that does represent a beginning of the end of a remarkable political movement

Anyway, let's get the phone lines open. 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need

It's 19 minutes after 10. Nigel Farage has been horribly humiliated in Clacton-on-Sea

He will deny it. I would imagine that anybody who supports him

from a position of even vague normality can't deny it. Not today, not this time

You can stay loyal, you can look forward to the next bounce, or you can insist that he's still the only person

you trust with the reins of the country. but you cannot deny that he's made an absolute fool of himself

What will it change? What has it changed? 03 45 6060 973

James O'Brien on LBC. 21 minutes after 10. Don't get cross with me for resisting the urge to laugh too uproariously

We played a couple of comical clips and we may play them again, but I do want to have a largely serious conversation

because Nigel Farage remains a serious political prospect. As I've mentioned a few times, he's led almost every poll that we've had since the last general election

So I suppose you can, if you want, disagree with me about the scale of the humiliation last night

or even whether it was a humiliation at all. But you need to do so on the phone. You can't just send me text saying that I'm a moron

It doesn't really challenge the ysis. It doesn't really offer up an antithesis to my synthesis as we move together towards a Hegelian thesis

You need to put a little bit of the flesh upon the bones of your position

and I've got some other examples that you may have heard on The Breakfast Show

as well of him and his closest acolytes having a really, really tough time of it

at the moment but we learnt from Trump that it doesn't change anything doesn't matter how ridiculous you look

people can persuade themselves that what they're looking at is not a sales ear but a silk purse

and I just don't know whether we Brits are as sad as that

actually. Josephine's in Westminster Josephine, what would you like to say? Good morning James, so firstly I just want to say that

D.K. is not America, and I think that's the big mistake that reform has been making

Okay, I hope you're right. I really want to think about, you said Nigel Farage was a kind of political force

and why has he been such a dominant political force? Now, the first is, I think, 14 years of politically motivated austerity

People are desperate, and when people are desperate, they vote for objective lies, basically

Secondly, there's the money that has been funneled into this from far-right people like Christopher Harbourn

Well, you can't call him far-right. I don't know anything about his politics. So all I know about him is that he's extremely wealthy

and will become even wealthier if the... Hang on. If the cryptocurrency policies that Nigel Farage has promised to introduce

after getting £5 million from him are ever actually introduced. But you can't call him far-right

Well, I think there's a lot of money that's channeled into reform was actually tied to the far-right in the States

Again, I don't know that we need to do this, because you scare me slightly

It's me that gets sued in these circumstances, not you. So I don't know

I don't have the evidence for that, and it doesn't matter, because I'm interested in why people like him

not why people might want to fund him. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, no, my third point is that the other political parties

have also been... So Cameron launched, like, basically announced, put the referendum into his manifesto

because he was frightened about the threat of reform. Yes. Now, so the other political parties have been responding to reform. Now, this by-election shows that they have stopped doing that, which is a good thing

Secondly, I think that this referendum has also shown that basically it's shown people like Christopher Harbourn that they can put money into Farage and he basically messes up

essentially Christopher Harbour one of his primary reasons for giving Nigel Farage

this money would have been to make sure that he doesn't need to take money

from kind of cameos you know saying things like supporting the IRA and so on

on videos that's a reasonable theory again we don't have any proof of that

but it seems perfectly reasonable that if your man is embarrassing himself by offering

up support for far right organisations and getting paid £80 to praise the IRA

who of course made a habit of killing the soldiers that he usually professes to care so much about

then one reason why a billionaire might give somebody 5 million quid

is so that they no longer have to praise the IRA for small change

Exactly, and so that they don't get themselves into the kind of trouble that precipitated him kind of wanting to avoid scrutiny

and launching this by-election. Now, he's really humiliated all of his backers with this by-election

I mean, Count Binfei's got 26%, which is not great and he's not even shown up to

kind of, you know, to the vote count which he apparently got over 60

so I think that the money will now very quickly stop coming

towards him. As soon as people don't think he's going to win they're not going to need to sponsor him

are they? I mean there's not going to be any point the only reason why you would give him money

whether you're a convicted fraudster or a, let's say a notional billionaire is because

either you've just been overcome with an extraordinary outpouring of generosity and Nigel Farage, by enormous chance and luck

was the first person to walk past as you were looking for someone to give millions of pounds to

or you think that him being in charge will make you richer

That's the only reason to do it. So if the prospect of him being in charge disappears, the money disappears

Exactly, because they want to essentially exact control over the British political system

Now, my theory is very much that reform are now, they're a sinking ship

and that once the money stops moving in their direction, I think financial backers who previously thought that he might win

will now move back to supporting probably the Tory party and trying to reassert, prevent Andy Burnham

from going down the proportional representation route to try and reassert the two-party system in this country

so that they can maintain some kind of political control over the country

Well, they have to go somewhere. And you can see it in some of the right-wing media, actually

You can see the mail and the telegraph drawing back from full-throated support for Farage

It doesn't mean that they won't turn the dial up again and get back into full cheerleading mode

But clearly, the mood when people like Honest Bob Jenrick and Suella Braverman started hopping across the floor

that mood of a kind of inevitable progress to power has gone

It could come back again, Josephine. You know, I'm older and uglier than you, so I'm afraid it is the hope that I fight most against

as opposed to the despair. I can deal with the despair, Josephine. It's the hope that gets me every time

But at the moment, it is at a very, very low ebb

So, I mean, that's a really good ysis of what it might have changed. By casting himself as a bit of an idiot

the idea of wanting to support this or put this in power

loses its appeal. I don't know has to lose all of its appeal

because he's still probably your best chance of getting much richer if you're a massive cryptocurrency plutocrat

but if those chances diminish then your support diminishes accordingly Thank you Josephine Phone eyes are open 0345 6060 973 is the number you need John in Manchester John what do you reckon

Hi, James. I'm really happy to get through to you this morning. You're very welcome. I just wanted to draw attention to the hypocrisy that we're seeing this morning from, obviously, Richard Tyson, as we saw with Nick earlier

and also from Lee Anderson when he's appeared on BBC Breakfast as well

What did he do? Well, his assertion seemed to be that, you know

we don't believe the police that there was no credible threat to Nigel's security

Okay, so I trust Nigel Farage more than I trust Essex police

even though Nigel Farage is the one that said Essex police had told him that he wasn't to attend anything

Yeah, he basically consulated the police and the BBC and been in cahoots about it

Again, I haven't. Are you sure that that's an accurate... I mean, even by 30p Lee's standards, that would be fairly comical, wouldn't it

The BBC and Essex Police have colluded to make Nigel Farage look stupid

or like a liar, or both. He basically said that the Essex Police could have said it

and he said, I don't believe the Essex Police, they're just as big a liar as you at the BBC

Oh, blimey. Right, I'm going to have to double-check that. And, of course, I was a little bit reluctant to provide free advertising

for our so-called rivals over at Broadcasting House, but cometh the hour, cometh the man

I can let people, John, listen to... What's his chops? Richard Tice's exchange with Nick Ferrari earlier

but I'll do that after the news, because I want to hear your broader point before I do that

My broader point is, obviously, this is... You know, the by-election in and of itself

is a massive humiliation for Farage. I mean, you know, you can't claim any kind of moral victory

when somebody who is a self-declared comedian has managed to take 27 almost percent of the vote

And, you know, even a meagre increase of 1,000 votes when no other major political party is participating

is not exactly a resounding victory, is it? No, of course it isn't. And do you think that's why he didn't turn up

Because he needs to be in a room where he can... where people will support him in the nonsense

that this isn't a humiliation. Yeah, of course. I think it's important to see the language he used

He said, there was a plot to embarrass me. It's like, well, the embarrassment comes from your existence at this point, to be honest, Nigel, doesn't it

And the calling of the election for reasons that remain fairly obscure, don't they

Unless, and I don't know how feasible this is, they genuinely didn't understand that it has no bearing whatsoever upon the inquiry into his secret gifts from a billionaire

Yeah, I find that particularly difficult to believe. I mean, whilst I disagree with Farage on many, many points and find him to be an odious human, he's not stupid

No, he has a sort of, I don't know what you'd call it

a sort of raw intelligence. He's certainly no intellect, but he can read rooms, can't he

He knows how to stoke up a crowd. He knows how to play the game

And on this occasion, he's played an absolute, whatever the opposite of a blinder is, hasn't he

A clangor, I would say. An absolute clangor, there it is. And I will return to that little exchange with Richard Tice in a moment

but Henry Riley's still on the scene, I think, in Clacton. We'll be hearing from him shortly

I may dig out that quote from the BBC as well. It's a weird one. Just as I promised, I'm having a look at what people

who are going to pretend that this wasn't a massive humiliation are doing today. Here's Mark

O'Brien needs to move on from Farage. O'Brien has got mental problems. He's besotted with him

I mean, I may well have mental problems, Mark. I hope not. And if I do, I hope I can find the help that I would so clearly need

but this is the biggest story in the country at the moment, politically. It is a by-election called by a man

who has led every poll practically since the last general election. So even if I was besotted, or even if I did have mental problems

it would be very, very weird not to be talking about it today

But let's have a little look at your history, just because we're interested in that kind of mentality

James, look at Lammy, he's useless. I wonder what it is about David Lammy you don't like, Mark

this one's to me again from a few days ago old big heads back, Farage living

rent free in his big egotistical head and then my personal favourite Mark

although we could be here all day judging by the amount of messages you send into the studio

sick to the back teeth of these MPs lying says Mark a die hard supporter of a man

who this morning lied about a police warning at the count at a by election which he somehow managed to win

and humiliate himself at in exactly the same moment. James O'Brien on LBC

It is 10.35. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC, where the response to the by-election result in Clacton last night

is a major cause of interest, a major source of interest, but not necessarily for the reasons you might think

I would like to, rather than just point and laugh, which is always tempting, I would like to track its potential significance

whether you think it is a moment in this extraordinary story of a populist far-right politician

at my view, he probably disputes that who has managed to persuade, help persuade a country

to become the first population in history to actually vote, to impose economic sanctions on itself

to diminish ourselves on the world stage while somehow at the same time accruing admiration

and until very, very recently, media sycophancy on a scale that I can't remember ever seeing in my lifetime

Do you think this is a moment? Or is it just a sort of hiccup

That's the question. Henry Riley is there. So, presumably a little bit peeved, Henry

that the winner of the vote didn't turn up to accept the nomination

Yeah, and there was a press conference planned. we were expecting a press conference at half past 10 or 11

so I thought I'd get the double whammy of the moment he turns up

because I love by-elections. This is like my 12th or 13th one. I've seen everyone from sort of George Galloway

I was here when he won in Clacton in 2022, but he didn't. Obviously, it was a no-show there

He was at Farage Fest, which I was not invited to, and then, or Clactonbury, one of the two

and then, of course, cancelled the press conference as well. Yeah. Do we know why

I mean, we know why he said he'd done it, but Essex police have been pretty clear, haven't they

I mean, both on the record and arguably even clearer off the record, that there has been no warning whatsoever issued to him about his safety

So, I mean, is there any word on the ground about why he really decided to bottle it

I mean, it's interesting how the view sort of hardened and the speech he gave from Farage Fest

how that changed, and then with various spokespeople from Reform, And look, you don't get a political party like Reform to give their name to an official spokesperson quote

without it being signed off very high up, if not by the man himself. And Nigel Farage was, I mean, as you've been talking about this morning

saying that there were sort of these bad actors and these almost sort of retrobate characters who were going to be there

That quickly turned into some sort of serious incident, which we have to take seriously

And then we heard from Reform, and we were taking it even more seriously, that there was this, that Nigel Farage had spoken to Essex Police

and they told him not to come to the count, which was pretty frantic as it was with 34 candidates

as you can expect, a three-foot-long ballot paper. And then we heard from Essex Police saying, on the record

a proportionate and robust policing operation to ensure the safety and security of all participants

And then we also understand that they didn't advise any candidates not to attend the count

But one person who did attend the count, James, and got over 9,400 votes was Count Binface

And I was delighted to speak with him and put to him that Nigel Farage had called him the establishment candidate

Am I the establishment, really? On the one hand, we have the former MP, former MEP

He's been a fixture of the British landscape in the last 20 years. He caused Brexit, which has made each of you absolutely poorer over the last 10 years

The country is in deep trouble. And, of course, he's also reputedly a member of the East India Gentleman's Club

which I understand, to this day, does not admit women. So is that the establishment, or is it a lone wolf space warrior with a lovejoy fixation

You tell me. If there is another by-election here, and Nigel Farage is recommended for a suspension

and there's a recall petition, and there is another by-election, we're back here. Are you standing

Who knows? I mean, that's the question, isn't it? Is this an FA Cup final or is it more like the Carabao Cup or the Cold War and it's a two-legged affair

We shall see. Maybe my job tonight is to just not ship too many goals too soon

But all I would say to you and to your listeners is don't let anybody, reform or otherwise

allow the parliamentary process, including inquiries into financial affairs, be coloured as an establishment stitch-up

or the process of another by-election being a subversion of democracy? Because that is dangerous

And that's coming from me. That was a campaign. I didn't get a chance to speak to all 34

I didn't get a chance to speak to Lawrence Fox because he wasn't there either. He's, you'll know, James, I've reminded you

that he's the leader of the Reclaim party. Reclaim? Reclaim? Reclaim, not restore or reform

Yeah, that's right. Okay, he's the lad from Lewis who wasn't actually Lewis. Yes, that's..

How many votes did he get? Yeah, in Lewis, but wasn't Lewis. Oh, I think it's about 300 odds

Okay. Yeah. Good Lord. Nigel Farage wasn't there, as I say, James

but I did speak with a reformed spokesperson who was. This is my conversation with Jamie McIver

and I asked him right at the start why Nigel Farage wasn't coming

I do appreciate why he would not want to have that happen to him

when he's worked so hard during this campaign. But more importantly, why should the people of Clacton

have their newly elected Member of Parliament treated in such a way

Well, why can't we see the reasoning then? I mean, he said it. Will he provide some evidence as to why he's not here

I'm sure further details may come to light. I know he has been in contact with Essex Police

Do you know what he found out? I'm not aware of an exact timescale, but what I do know is that he has been in communication with Essex Police

Did he just not want to be pictured next to a bin? Well, Nigel has stood in many elections

including, I believe, against the Monster Raving Loony Party on more than one occasion

But I don't think this has anything to do with that. Nigel believes in democracy

Of course, he's the man that's called this by-election to give the people of Clacton a say

What was the point in this election? I mean, it's all been a complete waste of time, hasn't it

Well, that's obviously not true. The election is because the establishment media, who can't help themselves

and the political class in this country, that just can't get over the fact that reform are doing so well

But in what way? I mean, how? How is the establishment media attacking Nigel Fry? Because they're going after every single, the double standard

Like the £5 million gift? That's one of the things, where nothing illegal has happened there at all

But you don't think that's a story? Should we not be reporting on that? There's nothing wrong with reporting

but there is no fair scrutiny or reporting to others. I mean, just look at local government

If a reformed councillor gets a parking ticket, it's the front page of the news, but it doesn't matter

Jamie, there's a difference between that and a £5 million donation. Do you look a bit silly calling Count Bimface

who's a satirical candidate, you're calling him the establishment? I mean, you look a bit silly calling him that, Jamie

So, I don't think I look silly. I think I look actually very clued up as to what's really going on in this country

as are the people of Clacton who all know that this guy basically works for the BBC

What, Count Binford, because he wrote for The Thick of It? Correct. OK

Well done, Henry. I mean, at least we can all agree he definitely doesn't look silly

He looks like a very, very big old brave boy. What happens now

Because if the Parliamentary Commission does find that there is grounds for a recall

they could, as you pointed out to Count Binford, who I'm sure people picked up on this

but he actually got quite serious towards the end of that exchange, didn't he? Yeah. John Harvey is, you know, a clever guy

and writes a private eye, among other things. And there are concerns, of course

about the whole of democracy being cheapened by these sort of shenanigans that Farage is indulging in

But how soon might you be back down in Clacton again? Well, it's interesting you say about John Harvey, by the way

Count Binface, because you're right, he's still very good at lacing the sort of football anecdotes

we talk about the FA Cup versus the Carabao Cup with actually some pretty serious points

And you heard the answer about the East India Club with regards to Mr Farage

I mean, he's certainly done his homework. In terms of the next time being Clacton

I mean, we've learned this morning that that's no longer paused, is it, that investigation

So presumably that carries on. There's still a few more hoops to jump through

because Mr Farage obviously denies any wrongdoing. However, if Daniel Greenberg, the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner, does think there are questions and does find some form of wrongdoing, that will go to the Standards Committee

Then that will go to a vote in Parliament if they recommend a suspension for 10 days or more

If that's approved by Parliament, there's then a recall petition where 10% of constituents will have to sign that

And then there's the prospect of another by-election. by-election. And James, I mean, in Clacton

I was talking to one man while I was eating my fish and chips on the

Clacton Pier yesterday, and he was saying in the last two years, he's voted for the

Essex Police and Crime Commissioner, the Clacton general election, the Essex local elections this year

the Clacton by-election yesterday, and if he has to vote again in the next month or so

he's going to be less than pleased. Yeah, you have some sympathy

for him, actually, because they have been, I don't know quite that they're being treated with contempt necessarily

but they're certainly being rather taken for granted. You mentioned fish and chips. I should have advised you yesterday when you were in Kidderminster

or the day before to visit the Blind Horse. I could have given you a list of the best fish and chip shops in Kidderminster

And I see the Carpet Museum was shut as well. You're joking, mate. I think it only opens on a Saturday

I could have made some calls there. I could have got you some VIP treatment at the Carpet Museum

But a busy week for you, mate. so I hope you get some time for a little bit of rest and relaxation 10 is the time Henry Riley live from Clacton where I imagine he been waiting to talk to us before hopping on the train and coming back to town It is extraordinary I think

actually, there's a question we should have asked at the beginning that we didn't, and Henry has

just reminded us of. Why do you think Farish didn't turn up at his own victory party? Or victory

Why do you think? Because, listen, I mean, you've got real boy who cried wolf territory here

and he has lied about security threats in the past but it would be really dangerous and stupid

not to pretend that it's possible he will be telling the truth at some point Essex police have made it absolutely clear

that they did not tell him not to attend Lee Anderson has made it absolutely clear

that he believes Nigel was told even though the police say he wasn't stop sniggling at the back

but why do you think he didn't go? because he would normally back himself to style out any situation

he'd normally back himself to you know, emerged triumphant. He could have loaded the room with his own supporters

They could have shouted down any hecklers. It's really weird when you think about it

that he didn't go, given that he is claiming some sort of glorious

and resounding victory. Why do you think Nigel Farage ran away? 0345 6060 973

It's 10.46. James O'Brien on LBC. It is 10.49. we'll be with Natasha Clark shortly

just as a quick round up and reminder of the investigations that Nigel Farage returns to Parliament to face

your answers to the question of whether last night changed anything and indeed why you think he didn't turn up

as a friend or a foe of Farage of course if you're a great admirer

then why do you think he didn't turn up because it's been a tricky morning

for his closest colonels and conciliaries trying to defend him as an earlier caller

I think it was John in Manchester pointed out. 30 Pete Lee had a bit of a nightmare earlier today on the BBC's breakfast show

BBC understands, say they didn't advise anyone not to attend. Yeah. Well, you know, sometimes some of these police forces that we've been dealing with recently

are about as honest as you lot at the BBC. OK, so you're saying that Essex police

that they're not telling it how it is when they say that there was no advice

to your party leader not to attend? I've not spoken to Nigel about this

I've not spoken to Essex police. If Nigel gets up on stage and says that he's been advised

not to attend the event, then I believe Nigel above the police

and especially above you lot at the BBC. So everyone's a liar, except the bloke who lied, it would appear

And it was Richard Tice's turn to have a crack at defending the indefensible with Nick Ferrari earlier

It's an unconditional gift. I can spend it on Ferraris if I want

They'd be entirely up to me. Why did you say it was for personal security then? Because it was given as an unconditional gift, right

The understanding is, and you know very well, you know very well, I've been physically more attacked

This is always a danger when we go cliptastic on the days is that we've got different lists and different numbers

We'll come back to that in a moment because Natasha Clarke is here

Well, actually, no, we'll talk to Stephen in Stavbridge first and then we'll talk to Natasha. Stephen, what made you pick up the phone

You probably can't remember you've been on hold for so long. No, I can totally remember

And I'm a big fan of yours, by the way, James. Very kind, thank you. Not least because of your kidderminstor credentials

Bring it on. But, yeah, the reason I think is because when I woke up this morning

and I looked at the results, I was damn-hearted because I've been following Count Vinh Fais on social media

Yes. And then I drilled down into the facts, and the fact is that Count Vinh Fais

a man who has no political party behind him, none of that apparatus, got 27% of the votes in public in Clacton

which is more than any of the political parties got at the last election

which to me is a resounding victory. It was higher than I expected, I have to be honest with you

I mean, it's a consolidation. It's pretty much, I think, what all the other parties would have got collectively

if they had put candidates up, because Clacton is, as we discovered when Douglas Carlswell stood there a million years ago

when UKIP was in its infancy. It's a unique constituency, and characters like Carswell and Farage

have a unique appeal for the voters there. But that might be why he didn't turn up

because he just didn't have the energy to pretend that this wasn't a really embarrassing moment

No, I don't think that's the reason, to be honest, James. I think because this fallacy of him being told by the Essex police

Well, he avowedly said that he had a Clacton suntan, which means he's been mixing with crowds in Clacton

There's a video of him online standing next to a van in Clacton commenting on the price of fish and chips

Well, if he was so concerned for his safety, why would he be wandering around Clacton with abandon

Well, he might have had his crack team of £5 million security guards

lurking in the background. Probably they were camouflaged. They might have been disguised as sticks of rock or something

And listen, I don't want to make light about security threats to Nigel Farage

or indeed any other politician, because they are sometimes true. And even if he cries, well, 5,000 times

and on the 5,000 and first time he's telling the truth, it shouldn't dilute our concern about the 5,000 and first time

just because he's told 5,000 fibs previously. So, you think, I mean, because the problem we've got

is that the people of Clacton are not the people of Britain. The people of Britain, actually, according to most polling

would have preferred to see Count Bimface win. and his personal polling is the poorest it's been in a very, very long time

What I'm asking you is whether or not you think this balloon can be merrily and easily re-inflated

I don't think it can. I mean, also, just going back to the reason he didn't turn up, I don't know if you're aware, but Count Binface's slogan was

make your vote count. Yes. So for Paraj to turn up at the Count with Count Binface

you know, you can hear that you can see the headlines the next day, can't you

He's been elected, you know. He's been elected, out for the count, we could be here all day

Exactly, and he didn't want that picture. Yeah, but he would have known that all along, you see

and certainly Henry's a clever lad, he's got ears everywhere, and they were planning to be there, so there was a reason not to go

that was not the reason that was given, because Essex police have made it clear that that was not true

despite the best efforts of 30P Lee and Richard Tice to pretend otherwise

There are facts, and that is one of them. While I've got you, Stephen, a quick word on the situation in Stourbridge

Yes. Well, I mean, it's terrible. My heart goes out to all the people in that area

I mean, I was driving in Stourbridge yesterday, and we saw this smoke billowing and thought

that isn't, you know, normal. and then the fire engines, you know

were zipping around in police cars and it's horrendous. As far as I know

and more houses were on fire yesterday. So... It's not a headline I ever thought I'd see

houses on fire in Stourbridge. No. Is it? At all? No. And as you know, as you mentioned at the outset

it's my neck of the woods, that. So it just always rightly or wrongly always resonates a little more just as Annie Makerfield was telling us during the Makerfield violation Stephen thank you Phone lines are open I would quite like to continue with this not least because I got loads more clips

I love it. I love a day when we've got lots of clips. Natasha is here. So, are you confident that you can recall and recount all of the investigations that Nigel Farage and Reform UK are now facing

I'm definitely not confident in that. No, I'm not either. But we'll try. We'll muddle through

However, there are two that I can recall confidently, which is the two that the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards is looking into

and has indicated that they're looking into. So, first, that's, of course, the £5 million gift

which has been given by Christopher Harbourn to Nigel Farage. That is the main scrutiny that Nigel Farage has got

And to be honest with you, that is the main reason why this by-election was called in the first place, wasn't it

He essentially wanted to prove that the people of Clacton still wanted him as their MP, despite the allegations swirling around about whether or not this gift should have been declared

And as of this morning, James, you'll know that the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards has updated its website

to tell us that that investigation is now essentially resuming. Now, I was told, and I think I told you a few weeks ago when we were last discussing this

that Nigel Farage was due to have an interview, a formal interview with the Commissioner for Standards in the coming weeks

And that didn't happen because he called that by-election. So we do expect and understand Nigel Farage at some point in the coming weeks to have a formal investigation and a question and answer session with the Commissioner for Standards about the whole process of this messy donation slash gift

Unless Essex police advise him that he wouldn't be safe to attend that meeting. Of course, yes

You can never rule out that possibility. You never can. And I mean, I haven't asked you about this actually on air or off air

I've seen some reports that the people closest to him didn't realise that this by-election would do nothing to cancel the investigation

It was merely the pressing of a pause button. And the reason why he went ahead with it in the first place

was because he thought he'd shut down the inquiry in its entirety. I hadn't heard that, but I think there was some

from some reform sources that I was speaking to, there was and there is still an indication

that they may have, or may have been unclear, that the investigation that the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner

was looking into was for the 12 months before Nigel Farage was elected to be an MP

And there was some discussion in the reform camp about whether this might be essentially, as you say, James

a get-out-of-jail-free card for Nigel Farage because the clock then may reset

You know, I think that was a bit of a wishful thinking, hopeful thinking, if that was the case

that it would be essentially shutting down this probe. You know, the Commissioner for Standards can essentially

has the powers to read the rules in the way that they see fit

And I think many people will say, well, that was just never going to happen. He was always going to reopen this investigation

And a sort of examination of those Parliament rules does seem to suggest that that's exactly what would have happened anyway

That's how I understood it. It's how most journalists in the lobby understood it already. So the questions have begun again already

and that meeting with the Parliamentary Commissioner is no doubt being scheduled pretty much as we speak

This is the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. What else is he facing

We've got the George Cottrell stuff as well. Yes, so the George Cottrell stuff, sorry, is being folded into that investigation, James

about George Cottrell, a friend of Nigel Farage, about whether he... Convicted fraudster

Indeed. Calls him daddy. Indeed. I did enjoy that at Nigel Farage's press conference last week, he called him posh George

So he seemed to be trying to sort of lean into some of those jokes. But anti-establishment posh

Anti-establishment posh. This is the kind of posh that's anti-establishment. Different kind of posh. But yes, as part of that investigation, he is facing those claims that posh George

George Cottrell paid for some of his security and for staff ahead of the 2024 election

And as we know, those rules mean any donations, any gifts before the 2024 general election

12 months before you're an MP, should have been declared. Now, you're right in the fact that many people just say, well, why didn't he declare it

Why didn't he just own up and say so? Reforms say that it was a personal gift, as you say

It was used for different purposes and he should not have needed to declare it again

That is for the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner to explain and to explore. Why do you think he didn't turn up last night

I think reform have had a really rough few weeks, and I think, personally, it's getting to Mr Farage a bit

But there was a press conference scheduled. Poor old Henry. I mean, he can't get a refund on his train ticket, can he

Poor old Henry went down. They were expecting a press conference, not just to attend the victory lap or the announcement

but a press conference as well. And in the end, he once again confined his performance to the choir

I mean, he literally, in front of his own cameras and speaking to his own people, taking questions from precisely nobody

And I know you've had a fair few clips this morning. Would you like to hear some more about some of Dijil Farage's

sort of reasons why he didn't attend the count? Would you like to hear some of that? OK, we can hear that now

I'm damned if I'm going to stand on a stage having won a resounding victory

a ringing endorsement of all that I've tried to fight for and you try to fight for

and be demeaned and humiliated by nobodies. And I will not, sadly, be attending the count

His security team were very concerned about a credible threat to his security

And with the greatest of respect, given what came out last week about an alleged firebombing at Nigel's home last year

I don't think anybody should have the temerity to question our judgments

and our security team's judgments about security. You see, Nigel's a man of principle

a great man of principle. We was at a party through the night into the early hours of this morning

It's just finished, by the way. to celebrate this great victory of Nigel in Clacton

And I think, personally, his time is better spent with the people that supported him

He said a massive thank you to them through the evening. He's put on a great, great party for them as well

It's not either or, is it? You can do both. I do actually invite more answers to the question

of why we think he didn't turn up. But in the meantime, Natasha Clarke, many thanks for those reminders

It is one minute after 11. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC

It's very hard for me to get a handle on this because fans of Nigel Farage stopped phoning me about four years ago

And, of course, I've been trying since 2014 to get Nigel into the studio

I think we've invited 30P Lee recently as well. At one point, he was boycotting us, I think

But I don't know whether he forgot or whether he just changed his mind. But I don't know whether..

Because, obviously, the absolute Trumpish support is going nowhere. I mean, that's the people that are texting me

Not many, actually, today, which is a bit disappointing. But the kind of support that he needs

the people who might have held their nose about some of his backstory or some of his associations

but who did smell a fish with regards to the £5 million donation

and his extraordinary response to questions about it, including from journalists who've been quite friendly towards him in the past

like Nick. I don't think Nick Froeh would mind me saying that. quite warm exchanges they've had together

And yet on that £5 million thing, he just got really petulant and really childish and really silly

So I just do wonder whether or not there are people who don't like the way that I characterize Nigel Farage fans

because they don't think it applies to them, who were being tempted towards the party

and who now, as a combination of events, culminating in last night's very hubristic display

are thinking nah sorry that flirtation over There no way I could There no way this bloke can be Prime Minister James O on LBC It seven minutes after 11 and it not for the first time

that things feel more psychological than political with regard to Reform UK, British politics in general

and Nigel Farage in particular. You can't be anything other than embarrassed today

by your previous support for him. And there are two ways of responding to that embarrassment

You either double down and lash out, which is lucky, because I'm here, to be lashed at

Or you just sort of quietly detach yourself from the whole thing and pretend it never happened

I don't know that there's a third option. If there is, feel free to enlighten me

But there is nothing about beating a bin in a by-election that you claim to have called

in order to prove that the establishment were conspiring against you, but the establishment didn't even turn up to the so-called establishment

You know, the former city trader, public school boy, 30, 40 year career politician claiming to be an anti-establishment outsider

That schtick failed a long time ago. But again, you already know that

You know he's about as anti-establishment as the Duke of Edinburgh. So you've already priced in that nonsense and stayed on board

So who gets off board today? Who actually hops off the bus today

Because he's embarrassed you. I don't know how I mean I don't know how you process that

I don't know how anybody processes that because it's not political, it's psychological

you can sort of lash out at the people holding up the mirror

that you see yourself in but you're still going to be you at the end of that process

even if you break all the mirrors in the building you're still going to be the person who fell for this fool

you're still going to be the person and I know that a lot of the race related rhetoric

that he has been spewing for his entire political life is what really appeals to you

and he's going to get back to that with a vengeance in the near future, despite the fact that there's someone even further to the right

of course, in Rupert Lowe, who is stealing his lunch in many ways

when it comes to the nativism and the racist provocations. But what is left now

Because he's not a master strategist or a deft operator or a political genius

He's not an outsider. He's not anti-establishment. And he's not very good at politics

And he's not the most obvious rallying point for racists, which has been pretty much since you first heard his name in this country

But what's left now? Desperation is what's left. And that is part of the explanation, in my mind

for why he did this. in the small hours of this morning

something that, when it was brought to my attention, I couldn't quite believe

And once again it shows you the sheer intolerance, the sheer loss of fundamental democratic principles

that those that went before us fought in world wars to fight for and preserve

What on earth is he talking about there? So he's claiming that there was going to be disruption

at the announcement, and also claiming that Essex Police had told him

not to attend for reasons of his own safety, something that Essex Police have made clear was not true

Categorically, they have made it clear that it was not true. Again, because, you know, even if the other lot are awful

you have to be better. Maybe there was one copper who made one comment

in the heat of a moment or in a friendly chat, which Nigel construed as being a warning not to turn up

even though the official Essex Police force line is that they did nothing of the sort

You don't know. None of us know for sure whether or not he's got a mate in uniform

who just said, oh, I wouldn't turn up. You just don't know. And then he would naturally embellish and inflate that

into Essex. Police have told me. But why is he bringing the war, the world wars into it

I mean, if he was frightened of being laughed at, has he ever read a history book

Where do you think the Nazis stood on mocking far-right politicians? Spoiler alert, they were against it

No one was really harder on the mockery of far-right politicians than the actual Nazis

So what is it that makes our war dead, or the sacrifice of the World Wars

particularly the Second World War, relevant to a conversation about a man

who's frightened of being laughed at? Have a listen to it again, because you can't make sense of that

It's not a phone-in. This is actually disgusting, isn't it? what can I possibly reach for now

and he knows his crowd so well I remember when I was doing daytime television

a million years ago and someone who shall remain nameless told me it doesn't matter what you say

you'll get the crowd, you'll get the audience to clap and cheer you if you say it with a certain

rhythm, so you get to the end of what you're saying with a certain rhythm

and if you're any good at this at all they'll all start clapping even though they've been busting

from Doncaster, they don't know what day it is and they they're just there for the catering, for the free catering

nothing against Doncaster, by the way. It's where my first home was. So you do it

So you're having an argument with someone about, I don't know, dog poo or charity collectors

and you go, da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun-da-dun! And you get to the dun at the end

and the crowd just sort of wakes up and goes, yay, yay, that's marvellous. He knows his crowd so well

I know what I'll do. I'll mention the World Wars. Doesn't matter why

They won't care. They won't stop to pause or wonder whether that's appropriate or what on earth I'm going on about

because it's like sticking a flag on a lamppost. You don't question why they've put a flag on a lamppost

outside your house when they live 20 miles away, and you don't want a flag on a lamppost. You just either salute it or you are a traitor

So why is he mentioning the world wars in an explanation of why he's too scared

to attend his own victory announcement? And once again it shows you

the sheer intolerance, the sheer loss of fundamental democratic principles that those that went before us fought in world wars

to fight for and preserve. You see what I mean? Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun. Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun

World wars? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'll play it once more

because you can hear a little bit of confusion even in that room. You can hear a little bit

Hang on, world wars, cheer that, but we're not quite sure why. It's not exactly what you'd call a full-throated response, is it

But what on earth is he talking about? What democratic values are diminished or damaged or destroyed

by people laughing at someone who's made a fool of themselves? To me, it's..

I'm not claiming for a moment that the British have a monopoly on humour or mockery or indeed satire or sarcasm

but if you're going to mention certainly the Second World War, then you know nothing about where the Nazis stood on the mockery of ridiculous politicians

or far-right politicians or indeed ridiculous far-right politicians. What's he actually talking about once more

Alright, I promise and then we'll move on. But I want you to listen out for two things, three things

The rhythm that I talked about. The sighting of the world wars with absolutely no basis in

...planity or reason, let alone history whatsoever. And then the thing I told you would happen, which is the crowd responding

but listen out for... Well, I would pick up as a degree of confusion

They know what they're supposed to do, like Pavlov's dogs, but on this occasion, it's not quite..

Hang on, why aren't we going to have a celebration? World War... World War's better clap, not sure why

Just a quick check. I mean, this is horrible. Horrible. In the context of people actually making the ultimate sacrifice

to defend our democratic values. You've got his consularies touring the studios today

accusing the police of lying, accusing the BBC of lying. What do you think the Nazis' attitude was

towards authorities that told the truth when they wanted people to believe the lies

I don't know. I mean, I could tell you, but I'd rather you worked it out for yourself

You're accusing absolutely everybody of lying. Respect for the police surely is a key part

of our democratic value. the rule of law. 30P Lee is calling the police liars

BBC, which is impartial, I know a lot of people have a problem with that, but, you know

we are allowed opinions on this radio station. Charlie State is not allowed opinion when he

interviews 30P Lee. All he is allowed is to cite what Essex

police have said and listen in wonder as 30P Lee claims that Essex police

have lied. What are the democratic principles that Nigel Farage is defending or upholding

By bottling his own victory party. I haven't got a clue, but I'll play it one more time and then we'll never listen to it again

And once again it shows you the sheer intolerance, the sheer loss of fundamental democratic principles

that those that went before us fought in world wars to fight for and preserve

So fundamental democratic principles and then world wars. It's like a one-two. It's like Henry Cooper

Actually, I'd probably go for younger listeners with that. You know, it's like Tyson Fury

So it's not going to work, that ogy, is it? But do you see what I mean

So the democratic principles, yeah, world wars, yeah, it's just horrible. And the other thing is, which it hasn't been before, it's really pathetic

James O'Brien on LBC. 18 minutes after 11. I wonder whether by not turning up, he made a bad..

And, of course, by fibbing about it, he has made an already embarrassing situation worse

while claiming to the converted that it's all gone brilliantly and he's secured an amazing victory

He just doesn't want to turn up to the announcement. Martin is in Clacton on Sea, live on the scene, Martin

What would you like to say? I just think it's... Hi, James, by the way. Nice to hear from you

I just think it's a bit fitting that the man that calls

the unnecessary circus in Clacton ends it talking to a load of circus fans in a tent

So I thought that was a figure of speech Henry was using when he talked about Farage Fest

but that wasn't just a little phrase that Henry had come up with. That was a thing last night

No, he named it. Yeah, he named it that last night. He called it his festival of Farage, effectively

In Clacktonbury, I think he called it. Right. Is it going to change anything

Maybe not down there. I can't imagine them ever not returning him, but just a sense of perhaps the national mood changing slightly

I think the mood was already changing, and I think that he is, unfortunately

bringing Claxton to be a bit of a laughing stock as much as his actions are himself

by not being able to just sit it out and wait for action to take their course

I mean, by the looks of it, the investigation's going to continue. We'll wait to hear what the outcome is of that

He's already, actually, I'd stopped myself from correcting Henry earlier because I danned, frankly

He gets very cross if you do. He said he's denied all wrongdoing

Actually, latterly, he started saying, He says, well, maybe I forgot to sign a piece of paper or something like that

So he has begun as a little bit of a wriggle underway already. The videos he's been putting out have been, I haven't broken a law, I haven't hurt anyone, I haven't done this, but I might have filled a form out wrong

Exactly that. Which is a change from where he first started, which was I've done absolutely nothing wrong and it's nobody's business but mine

Exactly. And you know what, the filling out of forms often can have mistakes made in it, but people can do it, can backdate their forms where they realise they've made a mistake

but not necessarily leave it until someone finds it some years down the line

and then it looks all a bit fishy. You know, he could have cleared it all up by doing it all properly in the first place

Yes, I talked at the beginning about the need for a German word

to describe what happens when your own neck of the woods is in the national news in ways that it isn't usually

And my neck of the woods, sadly, is in the news for all the wrong reasons. Stourbridge, just down the road from Kidderminster, where I grew up

currently on fire, something that we will get on to talking about later in the programme. And obviously you can't speak for Clacton on sea

any more than Nigel Farage can, but it is a little bit embarrassing that that is now for probably the next decade

That's what people are going to think of when they hear about your hometown. And it's been the unfortunate decade for Clacton

Brexit vote, the by-election with UKIP, which Farage obviously heavily peddled back then as well

Clacton has been an interesting place politically, unfortunately for the last, you know, 12 years

Do you know why he lands? Douglas Carswell and Farage, why do they land so well down there

I think they play to an apathetic voter, a voter that feels that they haven't been able

to have their voice heard, and ultimately sells them a story that makes sense to them

I don't think... Why is it so much more effective in Clacton than it is almost anywhere else

but I think if you look at a number of seaside towns you know you've got Great Yarmouth

you've got you've got where Richard Tyce is you've got places that are

harmed by the lack of hospitality and the lack of people coming to these places

and spending good money it's really hard for businesses to survive in Claggton, independent businesses

and so the businesses that are here the money then doesn't stay within the local economy

OK, it will go into employment and jobs for some people locally

but the main crux of the money goes out of Clacton and it's not able to be reinvested within the area

You know, we've got millions of pounds coming in from the Labour government, which is fantastic, but it's hard to spend that

There's lots of rules around it. And one of the things is somewhere like J-Wig

actually can't have investment put into it because of its height to the sea level

and there's a risk to it. I didn't know that. There's like a rule with our money being sent

To global warming. And that means if I turn up and say

your life isn't great, and it used to be. The thing about our old seaside towns

you can see the Victorian ghosts, can't you, in the bandstands and the ironwork

and the hotels that were once full of the Belmond and would have, you know, French princesses staying in them

and things like that and famous chefs cooking in them. It's near the surface, that past

and you blame the disappearance of that glorious past on foreigners that you are reading about in the newspaper

not on people who are living in your community. Yeah, Reform Zone office is in one of these massive hotels that used to be, you know, opposite the pier

used to be I assuming a century ago was one of the highlights to stay in Clacton And yeah I mean you got the pier you got the old Butlin site Okay that not quite so old but you got all these places that once were thriving areas of tourism

coming into Clacton and really wanting to explore and have a great time here

Whereas now people come down for the day, maybe with a packed lunch, maybe they'll go to McDonald's

but very rarely are they, you know, there isn't places necessarily or lots of places really

for them to spend their money other than a few businesses that do very well. I'm glad that they do

But I'd like it to be easier for those businesses to, or for more of those businesses to exist

Yeah, no, I hear you. And it's unlikely that there's going to be much improvement

in the fortunes of any of these people as a consequence of sending Nigel Farage back to Westminster

Martin, take care. John's in Birmingham. John, what made you pick up the phone? Morning, James

Hello, John. First of all, from Birmingham, I'd just like to give my thoughts

for all those people at Stourbridge at the moment. our thoughts are with them

But the reason that I phoned in, well, I think Farage has basically totally humiliated himself

calling this by-election. It has massively backfired on him. And I think people that sat on the fence about Farage

if you can't sit on the fence with him, will see how much of a bare-faced liar he is

And if he can lie about the police, he obviously lies about that five million pounds and and everything else i mean you can every time

he opens his mouth that's how you know he's going to come out with a lie because his mouth

you've gone a little further than i would on that there's certainly plenty of evidence about him

being economical with the with the actuality but this is a combination of perceived dishonesty and

for the first time really really really epic incompetence and you might think he's an idiot

but you've had to accept that he's good at playing a fiddle, you know, playing a room or whatever it may be

And on this occasion, as you say, it's hard to imagine it going right

I can't even really put up, unless they misunderstood what was going to happen to the inquiry

and they were just trying to duck it. I can't understand how anybody thought it would be a good idea

to call this by-election. Yeah, and I think also what's added to the humiliation

is having Lee Anderson come out on the BBC this morning and to say what he said about he believes Farage more than the police

Yeah. Well, that just adds to the humiliation. And people that wasn't quite sure about reform

I think as the polls are beginning to show, are now looking and seeing what they actually are

and what they're all about. There's no way they could actually run a country and be in government

Just some of the things that they come out with. And I think people are slowly, slowly coming to terms with that now

And I think they've had the peak. And I think the slide is going to continue

We'll see. I mean, there are things that could happen that would historically send support

for the furthest right mainstream party rocketing again. I mean, you know, you have to hope they don't happen

because they normally involve forms of either national or personal tragedy. But, yeah, there is a sense that the balloon is pierced now

and the air is leaking out, and when you've got Nigel Farage and Richard Tice puffing away

trying to re-inflate the balloon, it's not ideal. And you mentioned Anderson

I think that Tice's encounter with Nick Ferrari this morning was at least as significant as Lee Anderson's attempts

to accuse everybody except Nigel Farage of lying. Here's a little reminder of that

Is it because he didn't want to be demeaned and humiliated, as he said, or you're now telling him that it's his security team

who overrode Essex Police. Which is it? I've just told you, I'm delighted to tell you again

I trust the judgement of Nigel's security team above everybody else, including Essex Police

So his suggestion he would be demeaned and humiliated is nonsensical. If you're going to ask me a question

do me the courtesy of letting me answer it. I've just told you, let's trust Nigel's security team

to keep him safe, secure and alive. And I just repeat, for anybody to question

our security judgements... He's frankly outrageous. But just lastly on this, why did he say he would feel demeaned and humiliated in attending then

That's got nothing to do with the security point. No, no, no, but why did he say that

I don't know, Nick. Oh, I just think Tyson had just got a little flashback

to being at school, didn't he? And sitting in a classroom when the teachers just explained something

and asked him to repeat what the teacher... I don't know, sir

I don't understand. I don't really understand anything. And of course Nick picking up on the fact that Farage claimed he was going to be demeaned and humiliated

which has got nothing to do with threats to his security. But Ty's, I think, being a bit too silly, a bit too stupid to realise that it was Farage who said it was the police

So for him to argue that the security overruled the police is actually to call Farage a liar

because Farage had claimed it was the police that had told him not to go. And there's Ty's talking about the security team paid for, presumably, with some of that five million quid

although there's arguments about that as well um being they were overruling the police so that is

making so i mean that is the sound of a man who doesn't realize how stupid he's too stupid to

realize how stupid he is richard tite and you know that's not a very nice thing to say about

someone but um i had to the truth hurts sometimes there it is 29 minutes after 11 is the time you're

listening to james o'brien on lbc i should tell you that no guitar napolsky will be joining us

from Jerusalem at about 10 to 12 today to look at some fairly hideous developments

in Israeli conduct or Israeli settler conduct in the West Bank. So hideous, in fact

that even America's extremely sympathetic ambassador to Israel, and by that I mean sympathetic

to Benjamin Netanyahu's regime, has taken the extraordinary step of describing settlers as Israeli terrorists

as they continue to besiege a Christian village in the West Bank

And, in the same breath almost, I can tell you that Benjamin Netanyahu has responded to the historic support of the United Kingdom by describing the United Kingdom as the Islamic Republic of Britain in the last few days

So we'll be catching up with Noga on those two stories shortly. James O'Brien on LBC

It is 33 minutes after 11 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC, where the conversation continues

Whether or not, I mean, really genuinely still puzzled as to why Ferris didn't turn up

Henry Riley went to Clacton, there was a press conference scheduled. The victory was assured, he would have turned up and endured a little bit of ribbing

but that is a great British tradition, isn't it? political satire, embodied

really in Count Binface himself, but he knew all of that. And instead he stayed hidden

He stayed in his own little silo and claimed that the Essex police had told him not to

go when Essex police, he must have known, were going to come out and say, no, we didn't. I mean, it is extraordinary. But how

significant is it? So there's two elements to this conversation, really. The first is

the mystery of why he has added to his own humiliation by bottling the victory parade, and

the bigger question of whether or not it is going to be more significant in the greater scheme of things David is in Chorley David what would you like to say Yeah hi James In terms of the comments that have been made that are just outrageous

I feel like they stripped decency to the bone, and now they're just going for the marrow

You know, to talk about people who died in wars and compare it to your own situation is just bad

And one other thing, to use your logic, which you always come up with, James, which is, let's do some counting

78,000 people were on the electoral roll, 22,000 voted for Farage. That means 72% of the people didn't

It does. I mean, we're slightly wary of these calculations because the turnout was quite high for a by-election

called in these sorts of circumstances, although his result is not the best ever

for somebody who's essentially had a vanity trip of a by-election. But yeah, there are an awful lot of people in Clacton

who didn't vote for him. That's the will of the people. And the bigger part of the extra turnout was to vote for a bin

Yes, that's true. And that number surprised me, actually. Some people are obviously a little bit carried away

talking about a possible victory for the bin. But he certainly marshaled the opposition, didn't he

He became the rallying point. That's the big worry for Farage, actually, is even Count Bimface can demonstrate

what Andy Burnham demonstrated in Makerfield. You become the rallying point for stopping him

And you do well. So a little bit of cooperation or even a calculation on the anti-reform ticket

and the results can be very, very unpleasant for Farage. Why do you think he didn't go

Simply because he couldn't face the humiliation of having to cheer or celebrate beating the bin

But he knew that the bin was going to be there and he knew that the bin was going to come second

And he didn't get warned off by Essex police. So something happened last night that made him think..

Yeah, probably he wants to start his next term the way he ended his last one

by never going to Clacton. Yeah, well, yeah, he couldn't wait to get out of town

He couldn't wait to get out of town. I don't think he's... Has he had any constituency surgeries yet

I know that we were supposed to be keeping an eye on that, but as far as I'm aware, he hasn't done it

I checked it yesterday, he hasn't. And final question, in the great scheme of things

a lot of people are talking about the balloon deflating or the gloss coming off

He's bounced back before, do you think this one might be a little bit more permanent

I think we might be looking at a dead parrot. I've got Eric Idle on full disclosure next month

Brilliant. It should be. David, thank you. And I can tell you that at least one person listening

has just had that feeling that I was describing at the top of the show that needs a German word to describe it

A caller from Chorley says, John, I'm getting that feeling of my hometown being mentioned

And you're right, James, it does feel strange. It is 11.36. Rob's in Sheffield

Rob, what would you like to say? Hiya, James. Hello. I think that Nigel didn't sign up

because he's just showing us what he's all about. He's been doing this for some years

He's got a total disregard for parliamentary processes and he's got a total disregard and disrespect

for the people who came out to vote for him last night. That's a really good point

So 30p Lee is reduced to claiming that he's confining his appearance to the people that worked for him

but not attending the count is actually a bit of a... It's a bit of an insult to the voters

That's the point where the votes are counted and announced. So that is the event for the voters

and he went to the event, his own event, for the party workers. Yeah, I mean, he's announced that

instead of answering questions to the Parliamentary Select Committee, that he's going to let the people decide

his people are going to decide whether he's worthy or not. Well, they did, again, unfortunately

so give them the respect that they deserve but when you get used to lying then the lies become

your truth you know we have other world leaders that do this you know the lies have become the

truth now in in the political world uh you know all over america uh unfortunately for nigel he

doesn't have the clout where he can say believe this lie or i'm going to hit you with a charis

he doesn't have that clout and he never will have that clout

I'll tell you what I was thinking. Actually, an earlier caller made me think this

but I didn't mention it at the time because I was trying not to interrupt. Trump needed to be in his second term

before he went all in on dishonesty. And I mean, I know that we heard about alternative news and fake

alternative facts and fake news when Kellyanne Conway was in post during his first term

But he still had, this is what everybody, all the clever people say, he still had people in the room where it happens

who would put a hand on his shoulder and say, that's just not true, you just can't do that

Second term, Trump, the truth is an absolute joke. The truth is completely AWOL

And Farage is not in power. He might be in Parliament, but you don't really get to

for example, cow media organisations unless you can threaten them with either lawsuits or legislation

And so listening to 30p Lee attempt to attack the BBC this morning

is both Trumpish and not Trumpish at the same time because the BBC won't be scared by that

And yet when Trump does it, particularly second-term Trump, they are scared

Yeah, well, I think there's two things here. One, Andy Burnham, he's under some serious pressure

but he's got to continue doing the job because neither has only got to where he's got because both Labour and Conservatives were failing

they were failing everybody who would bother to vote for him. That's why he's

got to this stage. That's why Powell had a voice in the 60s

and that's why Moseley had a voice in the 40s. We know how

this happens and those of us who come above us look back a little bit, we'll see

that these people come in when they come into these little weak points

yeah, voting in collecting you know, I live in Sheffield, I grew up in

a largely white working class area of Sheffield. When I drive around there and I have to go and see my

brother who lives at home, you know, all these flags all over there, there's four flags

on some lampposts, on several lampposts. That was never there in the

60s, 70s or the 80s when the National Front was strong in Sheffield

Right. You know? So we know what changes. And people are almost

disenfranchised from everything. And people say, I heard you call her who've come from Clacton

saying, ah, these places are poor. These individual places are poor, but England is rich, you know

And we're spending money here now on things that don't come back. We're spending money on, you know

I can name them. There are other websites, but, you know, Amazon

the money goes out of the country. On Apple, the money goes out of the country

And, you know, we have some serious decisions to make. You know, Nigel, I think one is

since before. Andy Burnham's got to keep doing this, having a great start

and people stick with him. And if he has to go, then somebody else has to come in

who's going to continue trying to make some progress. The second thing is, the select committee

have got to take him to task. And they've got to hold him to task and not allow him to obfuscate

not allow him to say, not to throw his choice out of the pram. They got to make him answer questions or just suspend him It as simple as that I am It funny I thought for some time that he not very good at this and I sat there thinking a bit

either I'm the boy in the crowd who can see that the emperor's naked, or I'm completely wrong, and everybody else is right

I hear people talk about how effective he is and how good he is. All he's ever done is give people a bogus grievance narrative

All he's ever really done is tell people that the reason why things haven't gone the way that they might have hoped is because of foreigners or because of Brussels or because of latterly the establishment, which is a palpably ridiculous position for him to adopt

And what's changed in the last six months is that he has actually been the subject of the victim narrative

so it's a big difference between saying me saying to you oh don't worry rob it's not your fault

that things haven't worked out for you it's it's the fault of the polish lorry drivers or it's the

fault of those faceless bureaucrats in brussels i can't don't ask for any details because i haven't

got any all i'm giving you is something like a spittoon into into which you can eject your

unhappiness and i will you know i i get a vote every time the spittoon tings but the last six

months. It's been poor me, poor me, poor me with him, hasn't it? And last night was

in some ways the apotheosis of poor me. The police have told me I'm not safe

That's a lie. I can't go. I won't be demeaned and humiliated

He literally stood up in the European Parliament a few years ago and sought to demean

and humiliate everybody there. I think he didn't tell the head of the

European Commission that he looked like a suburban bank manager or something like that

When he's not doing the racism, he's doing the demeaning and the humiliating of his critics and his opponents

He called me a moron, Rob, on Nick Ferrari's breakfast show. How is that not demeaning and humiliating

I had to come on air immediately afterwards with my ego in tatters

and my jaw on the floor and put a brave face on and battle through

But I think the fans, the admirers, will lap up their own victimhood

but they might not like his. No, no, but his job, it's very easy though, isn't it

Yes. You know, as I say, you know, Paul did this in the 60s, you know. You white, I mean, I'm like first generation born here of parents from Jamaica

So I've had this in Sheffield, you know, oh, you've got my job

It's like, mate, I've not got your job, I've got two degrees. You can't lead and write, you know

And it's the easiest job in politics to get these people, you know

who sadly haven't got an education. Some of them. I'm more worried about the posh people that like him

You've got these ex-Tories moving over, like Tim Montgomery and Suella Braverman

They've got very expensive... I don't know if they've got expensive educations, but they've certainly got educations

and they're lapping it up for slightly different reasons, which, in some ways, I suppose

if you haven't got the excuse of poor education or poverty, then what you're being drawn to

is potentially or possibly even darker. Rob, thank you. Taking us right up to 11.45

Noga Tarnopolski waiting on the other side of the next break to bring us up to date with developments in the occupied West Bank and indeed in the heart of the Israeli government

It's funny, isn't it, the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu can describe the UK like the worst of Twitter trolls, as the Islamic Republic of Britain, without really any redress or pushback at all

and that's only one of the stories that we'll be talking with Noga about after this

James O'Brien on LBC. It is 11.48, you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC

At least three stories to get through now with Noga Tarnopolski who joins us from Jerusalem where she works as a freelance journalist

and as you will know has been an enormous help to us in trying to navigate some of the madness that's unfolding in her part of the world

And, I mean, I don't think either of us would ever have expected a day to dawn upon which the American ambassador, the Trump appointee ambassador to Israel, Mick Huckabee, a Christian evangelical, has used the phrase Israeli terrorists to describe settlers who have been besieging a Palestinian village in the West Bank for several days now

Noga, what's going on? Well, as you just said, it really is a bit of madness

We're seeing an impasse between one of the most powerful armies in this region, if not the most powerful army in the region, the Israeli army, and a little more than 100 armed ideological hooligans, terrorists, to quote Mike Huckabee

He called them Israeli terrorists. And then something even more shocking to me, in the same statement yesterday morning, he said that the United States had requested that the Israeli army and the Israeli police move into the area to take care of matters

Now, of course, that hasn't happened yet. They have gone into the area, but nothing has been taken care of

But notice the humiliation for Prime Minister Netanyahu, who is treated as an irrelevancy

It's the U.S. giving Israeli law and order orders, and even that's not working

I mean, the likelihood... Well, talk to me about the political impact of the IDF actually going toe-to-toe with the settlers

given some members of Netanyahu's cabinet, and they're very, very close related. I mean, one of them is a settler himself, isn't he

Many more than one. Is it more than one? So it's unlikely that the police or the IDF are going to start dancing to Mike Huckabee's tune, isn't it

Anytime soon? Mike Huckabee's tune is not, it's a kind of warbly tune, James, because by yesterday evening, he issued a correction emphasizing that he is an ardent supporter of the entire settlement project

and that these are just, you know, marginal kind of, I think he said thugs or hooligans or something like that

And he thanked the West Bank settler leadership, which has winked knowingly at this entire unfolding catastrophe

He thanked them for standing against these, you know, I don't know

I really don't. These are marauding gangs that have been well armed by the Israeli government

and are with the government's approval, they are turning, they have turned the West Bank

into an anarchy in which they are lords of the land. That's what has happened here

So Huckabee is trying to draw a distinction between the people whose violence makes the settlement possible

and the people who then settle. Is that right or not? No, I mean, Mike Huckabee, I think

is trying to watch out for himself and his president. He, you know, he has himself a serious constituency of evangelical Christians who, like him, believe that God himself deeded this land to the Jews

So he doesn't want to step on their toes. On the other hand, among the families that have been besieged by these lunatics are Christian families as well, Christian Palestinians

And so he's facing pressure on both ends. And also remember the MAGA base in the United States has pretty much had it with seeing people

what they consider unfairly targeted by Israelis using U.S. weaponry. So all of that is in the background here

So we've got Khuzra, which is south of Nablus. That's the village that is being besieged that Mike Huckabee was talking about specifically

You mentioned that there are Christian families there. We've also got the Christian village of Tebe in the occupied West Bank

which is also under siege from settlers. Taibé has been under siege. Another village called Junoub has been under siege

But, you know, when we say under siege, I want to explain this. Of course. These are in each case, let's say between 100 and 150 extremely violent thugs

who have received arms from different arms of the Israeli government. Could have been from the Ministry of Defense

It could have been some of them form part of what are called like local security committees

and they get to even wear military uniforms or they're not exactly part of the IDF

These people have engaged in recent weeks in a whole series of extremely violent provocations

They, quote, take hikes very often on Fridays. I have my eyes out for that today

And by taking hikes, there's a long line of, let's say, 150 of them with arms and with young children, inevitably

And they march through Palestinian villages screaming racist or inflammatory slogans. And they're trying to cause a clash, a kind of a civil war

The aim, the stated aim of these people and of the ministers who represent them most closely

Beteliz Motrich and Itamar Benvir, though, again, these are far from the only settlers in the Netanyahu's cabinet

their aim is to dispossess the Palestinians. They want the Palestinians out and they are racing

against time. They think that they may lose the next election and ahead of the October 27th

election they are willing as I see it to literally do anything to try and set this region on fire

and in a kind of, you know, Armageddon, take over the land

Remember that these people are religious fanatics. I don't know how else to describe them, even though that may sound impolite

That's a missing piece of the jigsaw for many people listening, myself included

The imminence of the election explains the turning up of the dial and the increase in the violence

And forgive me if this is a silly question. huckabee's intervention is it how driven is that by the fact that there are christ i know you've

touched upon it but one of the villages is is described as the last christian village in the

west bank is is that a big part do you think of what's motivating the u.s ambassador to get

involved a lot of my listeners will think he'd never use the word terrorist if it was only muslims

that were coming under attack both your general question and that question are very important

questions and I can't answer what he would say if the attacks targeted only Muslims. The vast

majority of Palestinians in the West Bank are Muslims. Taiba is not the last Christian village

It's the last solely, it's the last entirely Christian village, the last village that only

Christians inhabit. And this is, you know, for all of the churches, this is a very important land

these Christians represent, in the eyes of Christendom, the original Christians of this

land, the followers of Jesus lasting 2,000 years or more. And they themselves are very proud of

this heritage. I have asked people in the Catholic Church if they think that Christians have been

targeted in particular, and I haven't gotten really a clear answer. And I respect that. I

respect that no one's giving me a simple answer because what we're seeing is an attempt at

conflagration and so i think that for these extremist violent gangs who know that they even

have the prime minister in their back pocket remember prime minister netanyahu unlike huckabee

unlike the former german ambassador unlike the un has not said one word the prime minister who ran

his last campaign in 2022 on the slogan of sovereignty has relinquished sovereignty

over the West Bank which is the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and handed it over to violent

uncontrolled armed thugs that's what we're seeing I think that there are various sources of pressure

on Mike Huckabee, that said, including from possibly Vice President Vance, who has made it clear that he's had it up to his forehead with Israel

What he called, you know, he said at one point out loud, he said, you can't just shoot your way to victory on all these fronts

I think that's also playing in here. Speaking of Vance and indeed of Netanyahu

the latter seems to be echoing the former in a podcast he's done with a former military officer who lost his son in combat in Gaza

Avi Harouche, in which Netanyahu described the United Kingdom as the Islamic Republic of Britain

What's that all about? I'm waiting for the UK to respond. So am I, actually, to be honest with you

Yeah. You know, I don't really know what it's about. I think it may be an indication of how absolutely isolated the Prime Minister has become

and that he no longer has an awareness of how such a statement sounds to regular people

If you see the video of him making the statement, he does it with, like, you know the kind of prideful smile

you see on a 14-year-old who just teased his teacher? Yes. That kind of, like, gotcha

It's a smile. A smirk. A smirk. A smug smirk. I think he thinks it was clever

And it's certainly, again, placed in Netanyahu's base to say, look, Europe, you know, has been taken over by the Islamists

In this case of this, it's not it's a not very much listened to podcast here

Prime Minister Netanyahu made that smug remark. And then the host, Abihavu said, well, all of Europe

Wow. You know, it's a kind of become sort of a commonplace, comfortable little position to hold if you're an extreme right winger in Israel

And it's basically to say only we are holding the thugs at bay

The incident that took place in Ceuta recently has, you know, kind of given a lot of fire to this contention

And it also represents a sort of migration of very, very right-wing lies on social media

into very, very real political discourse. This notion of Britain being an Islamic republic

and not therefore nuclear weapons even being a problem J Vance has done it so they back on the same page here Vance and Netanyahu on this issue even as they disagree with each other on the broader picture

You know, you're making a good point, which I hadn't thought about. It's possible that Netanyahu chose to single out the UK

and not any other country because he wants to get on J.D. Vance's big side

I hadn't thought of it, but it's entirely possible. Everything's possible at the moment, Noga, as you make clear

to us whenever we have the pleasure of talking to you and benefiting from your clear ysis

no guttana polski life from jerusalem um as you as you hear the situation or nearby as you hear

the situation in the occupied west bank is even by recent standards absolutely i mean just hideous

absolutely hideous and the reason being as we have just learned the imminence of the israeli

election and the determination of the illegal occupiers to maximize opportunity before perhaps

future opportunities are taken away it's one minute after 12 i'm minded to do something a

lot softer in the next hour than we have done previously um and i i'm drawn inexorably to a

story about the number of men who think that they could actually be olympians i kid you not

actual Olympians, just normal men, innocent men. James O'Brien on LBC. Five minutes after 12, we will cross live to Stourbridge later this hour

to get an update on what is going on there. 54 patients treated by paramedics

some of them probably in the hospital that my mum left late last night

So smack in the middle of Worcestershire and indeed the West Midlands

and, I mean, 19 taken to hospital by paramedics. I always respond, just like you do

differently to stories that are on my proverbial doorstep and the idea of Stourbridge

houses catching fire in Stourbridge. I am going to return to this territory again and again and again

because I think some arrests have been made and possibly some of these fires had multiple

they had multiple starting points and there will be humans allegedly involved

and that doesn't prove that global warming isn't real. That doesn't prove that climate change isn't real

I touched yesterday on Hugo Rifkin's excellent piece in The Times about how they've all gone silent

Who's gone silenter, faster? The British admirers of Donald Trump or the British deniers of climate change, do you think

I mean, they haven't gone silent, but they've just gone silent on that subject

It's only, well, I don't know how long ago it is that Dick Littlejohn in the Daily Mail was explaining

he's never been more ashamed to be British. than when Keir Starmer elected not to join Donald Trump's ludicrous war in Iran

which has most recently seen, as you heard yesterday, a massive American warship becoming a hideous hotbed of mental anguish and suicidality

as a consequence of the people in charge not having the first idea what it is that they're doing

But people who, of course, supported Donald Trump have historically been a lot more likely to be climate sceptics as well

but they have, for the time being, at least gone quiet. But I do still need occasionally to point out that even if a wildfire is started by an arsonist, the reason why Stourbridge catches fire or the new forest catches fire is because of what climate change has done to Stourbridge or has done to the new forest

So however the fire starts is largely irrelevant. What climate change defines and determines is how violent those fires become and how quickly and how far they spread

And I need to remind myself, and you can remind me if I get a little bit previous about this

I need to explain that repeatedly and calmly, even if some of the people texting me to say

ha ha, ha ha, don't really deserve calmness and kindness, there will be other people listening who do

So yes, there will be reports, just as there were in France and Spain. There will be arsonists involved and there will be idiots involved

who've just left a barbecue smouldering in the park or chucked a cigarette end out of their car

But the climate change conversation is not about how fires start. It's about how fires spread

And that's the end of my TED Talk. It's eight minutes after 12. I absolutely love this story

I struggle, to be honest with you, to explain just how much I love this story

Four in ten men believe that they could actually be Olympians. Four out of ten British men believe that they could qualify at the 2028 Olympics if they started training today

Just over a quarter of respondents believe that they could beat a professional

in their chosen sport if given the chance. I love this story

I'm not entirely clear yet how we are going to discuss it

You'll have to stay tuned to find out. But there is a distinct possibility at the end of this introduction

that I ask if you are one of them, if you honestly think that you could beat a professional at their own sport

or if you honestly think you could qualify for the Olympics if you started training today

but I'm also interested in the psychology of it and the age angle of it as well

because I can just about get my head around this as a younger man

as possibly believing if I put in the training one of the stories that I keep meaning

I tried and I'm doing it badly so what I'm going to do now is tell you something

and you're going to do what I have failed to do there was a story about 10 years ago

15 years ago about a lad, it may have been longer actually

it may have been during the era of sort of laddishness, so then you're going back 30 years, aren't you, or 25 years

There was a lad who gave up work because he was going to become a professional darts player

Now, I know that shamefully, darts is not currently in the Olympics

but there's a campaign we should be getting involved with, Keith. And I don't know what happened to him

Because it's quite hard, I couldn't remember his name, and it's quite hard to find the correct search parameters

to find out what happened to this lad. And I said to you, I think I said to you on air

would it be 20? Maybe not on air. I'm going to keep an eye on this guy

I want to find out whether or not it works. Because if there was any sport that you thought you could become brilliant at

from a standing start, you'd probably go for darts or crown green bowls

Even curling would be too hard because of all the ice. So you'd go for darts or crown green balls

If I started from scratch now, could I get into the Olympics? Do they have bowling in the Olympics

They have it in the Commonwealth Games, don't they? Or at least you can win a world championship

That would be good. So I just kind of could imagine myself as a younger man thinking

if I just really committed now, I reckon I could pull it off

And then, of course, reality intervenes. You, yeah, there we go. I like that from Lorraine

it's called the badenock syndrome i believe james absolutely deluded self-confidence so

do four in ten men in this country suffer from the badenock syndrome quite possibly so many many

moons ago when i had only been at lbc for about 10 minutes i wonder how many people listening can remember this Probably somewhere in the LBC archive evidence of what I about to tell you will exist

I was challenged to a running race by a colleague. I was challenged to a running race by Ian Lee, in fact

who, of course, went on to boss the jungle on I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here

And, I mean, in my defence, he didn't tell me that he'd been a county standard athlete in his youth

I may have made that up, actually, by way of an excuse. That may actually be me sort of mythologising my own failure

by persuading myself that Ian had been a star athlete. I may have imagined that or made it up

But anyway, in my mind, that's true at the moment until you tell me that it isn't

And he challenged me to a race. and I had a couple of months before this race happened

It wasn't even Ian that challenged me. I had a producer who, looking back, possibly was indulging in a little bit of sadism

and they decided we need to do more creative things on the radio. We need to do more creative things

and we had a management team at the time who wanted us to step away a bit from the news

and do less current affairs-based broadcasting and more, I don't know, light entertainment

I don't even know what you'd call it. So all the producers are panicking. what are we going to do if we don't talk about the news every day

Do we got to talk about something else? So this producer obviously just said one day

why don't you have a race? And I said, yes, like a fool

So we end up on a flipping racetrack in West London with at least 11 fans in attendance and various..

No, I think I was just wearing a PE kit, Keith. I don't know why you want to know whether I was wearing lycra or not

That's just weird. So I'm turning up in a PE kit. And somewhere in my mind, right

and this is where the psychology of it is interesting to me, two months before, I thought, well, if I really go for..

And I was rubbish at running as a kid. I was never a particular... Not rubbish, rubbish

I didn't come last, but I certainly came nowhere near first. The highlight of my athletics career as a child

was when I was in second place in the 1500 metres, thinking that something extraordinary had happened

This was at prep school, so I'd have been 13 years old. there's a lad called Garrard who was like Zola Budd he was an incredible athlete and I was on

his shoulder right round the the final bend and I'm thinking this is mad I'm going to come second

in the 1500 meters and then I thought maybe I could even beat him I'm gonna so I just kind of

ran in front of him and he ran in front of me and I ran in front of him again and he ran in front of

me and we're getting to the finish line and I'm thinking I'm gonna flipping well I'm gonna come second in the 1500 meters this is the highlight of my life and as we cross the finishing line

the PE teacher rang the bell to signal that we had one more lap to go

And I came very near the back of the field. And obviously caused great hilarity among the people who'd been cheering for me

as I came down what I thought was the home straight, but was actually the penultimate home straight

True story, that. That doesn't sound like it, because that's Richard Tice levels of stupidity on my part

But hey, mea culpa. So I had no basis for thinking that I would be able to compete with Ian, except training

I'll do some training. I'll get in shape. How hard can it be

I'll get in shape. So I kind of got in. Well, no, I mean, you know what happens next

I didn't do any training at all. I went for about two runs

I got a personal trainer who I visited twice found it too exhausting

so I didn't go again and then suddenly two months pass and I'm lining up

have you ever had an anxiety dream about telling Mick Jagger that you

can play the drums or something like that this used to be an anxiety dream of mine

I'd be at some charity event and not that Mick Jagger would ever want me but it's a dream so it doesn't

have to have any roots in and I'd say oh I can play the drums

which I can't. I played them a bit when I was like 12, same era actually, 12, 13 years old

So I say to someone really famous who were doing a charity gig at the Royal Albert Hall at Christmas

I say to them in June, oh, I'll play the drums. And then I think, right, I'll go off

and I'll get six months worth of intensive drumming teaching and I'll be fine because six months of intensive drum teaching

and I'll probably be able to carry a tune. And then, of course, in the dream, you fast forward to

the moment, the night, and you're standing in the wings with some drumsticks in your hand

Have you had this dream? Is it just me that's had this? You're standing in the wings with some drumsticks in your hand and you're about to go

on stage. And you're just going to hit things. And that's how

I felt a bit when I found myself lining up on a starting line with Ian

Lee, preparing to have a running race. And, I mean, it was

I just can't quite believe I did this in retrospect. And it was shocking. I was absolutely awful

and Ian, I think, lapped me and he moonwalked over the finish line

he was so far ahead of me, he literally moonwalked backwards over the finishing line

while I'm about halfway back round the course spluttering half a lung up

just insane but psychologically, somewhere inside for that moment or in those moments

I had persuaded myself that with the right training not that I could run

in the Olympics, I grant you but that I could beat Ian Lee in a running race

The psychology of it just fascinates me. Is it an evolutionary advantage to believe this stuff

Because if you take 100 people who believe that they can achieve the impossible

maybe 1,000 people who believe that they can achieve the impossible and 1,000 of them try and one of them actually does

then the sum total of human achievement has been advanced, right? One person has achieved the impossible

and none of them would have tried if none of them had believed it to be true

It's just you've got 999 casualties for the one success. 2,000 adults

38% of men thought they could qualify for the Games if they received professional coaching

and a strict training regime. Two questions. The first is, this is why I take a long time sometimes to get to the question

because the better one comes out at the end, not the beginning. You are an elite athlete

you respond to this how, I mean if you are maybe not quite of Olympic level

but if you are Olympic level then straight to the front of the queue and you may even get a Ray Liotta

so how do you respond to the idea that four in ten men, and you know the figure

is going to be a tiny fraction of that for women isn't it, four in ten men

genuinely think that they could be in the Olympics if they started training

tomorrow and had some good coaches you might ring up to tell me, yeah, I reckon they could

but no, no chance at all. So that's question number one. As an elite athlete, how do you greet the news that

look at ten men, let's look at ten men, wherever you are now, four of them think that they could be in the Olympics

You tried and failed, perhaps, despite being brilliant. It is hilarious on one level

So tell me what their chances would be. I don't think anyone is going to ring me in good faith

I don't want any self-appointed comedians today. In good faith do you think you could make the Olympics in two years time if you started training now Hand on heart you think that you could

And then the third question, which in a way explains this story

Could I? I mean, what about pistol shooting or something like that

You know, I did actually try to be a trampolinist once with an Olympic athlete

I nearly broke her wrist about two weeks before the Olympics. It was all caught on film as well

but I think that's probably disappeared into the LBC archive as well. Can you get, and this is more a question about me and age

and missed opportunities than it is about the four in ten men who think that they could be Olympians

Can you become really brilliant at something if you start quite late in life

there's a lad at the tennis isn't there there's a is he lebanese there's a gentleman at the tennis

who is only ever in the veterans games and he's wonderful and really funny he's a great entertainer

but i don't remember him ever being in the probably because of politics or geopolitics or something

like that but can you start really late so question number one did anyone ever keep up with that lad

who was giving up work to see if he could become a darts professional question number two do you

honestly think you could make the Olympics if you started training now? Question number three

as an elite athlete, what are the odds of somebody else being able to start tomorrow and be right up

there with a chance by 2028? And then question number four, if we wanted to, what would we do

What would we do? The shooting. Would it be the shooting? And think of Eddie the Eagle in the

ski jump. That's what you'd be like if you did it. You'd be an absolute joke. I mean, a plucky joke

if you like, but there's no earthly way you'd be able to do this. Or is there

0345 6060 973 and then, of course, the psychology of it. What is going on

in the minds of these men? And you can all answer that

We can all answer that question. What is going on in the minds of these men? And rather than

it being something ridiculous and hilarious, is it possibly a good thing? Is it to the benefit

of the species that four in ten men think that if they started training tomorrow they could be in

the olympics in 2028 hit the numbers now you will get through 0345 6060 973 james o'brien on lbc

22 minutes after 12 actually there is a more serious question here isn't there which is about

just how hard is it to be an elite athlete because i suspect most of us haven't got a clue i like this

message here from Matt who's in Northampton. I used to play for a

football fans team and we played West Brom whose side were made up of ex-academy

players who'd been told at 16 that they weren't good enough to go on to the next level

right? They wiped the floor with us without even breaking a sweat. They were even

kind enough to start going easy on us when they were about 8 goals up and I can't believe

how much quicker they were than us and how technically brilliant. It really

makes you realise how many levels these people are above you while still not being anywhere near the level

that you would need to be playing at the top level in professional football. Most fans of football are convinced

they could manage a team from the stands. But the ones who think they can play

are a different kettle official together. I was at Kiddie last weekend. I was at Hornchurch last weekend watching Kiddie play

and I was doing that. I was thinking, well, he needs to do this and he needs to do that

And I was with Wayne from Basildon and he was giving it some to the goalkeeper

and telling the goalkeeper where he needed to be. And that's why you go to the football

But for four out of ten men to think that they could actually march onto the pitch

and do a better job or a comparable job to the people on the pitch

what is going on there? So there's a lot to answer. I gave you about 407 questions

and I'm giving you another one now, which is, can you explain to an idiot

i.e. me, or someone who thinks they could be, Just the sheer difference between elite-level sport of any kind

and, you know, Sunday in the Park with George. Wouter is in Beddington. Wouter, what have you got

Well, hi, James. Thanks for taking my call. Most welcome. I was sort of like a national league athlete, table tennis player

in the highest national league when I was 17. Due to certain circumstances

one of them being the Olympic qualification happening, I was able to get myself into an open tournament

for internationals in Germany when I was 17. Okay. I had my mum drive there all the way

So did you think you were with a chance of getting to the Olympics at this point

No. Because, yeah, I would have been at the Olympic qualification bit

Okay. Had I been of that level. but I played my first game at like 9.30, 10 o'clock in the morning

and just got absolutely wiped. And then there was an alternative route for the losers

to get back into the main draw, so to speak. That was four hours later, so I was just doing homework

Well, I probably wasn't, but with my mum and then waited four hours for the second match

and just got beaten even worse. This is the golf that we're talking about, isn't it

So you were really good. and playing at the county level or even the national level

you were playing really you thought you were really good you didn't know

it's a bit like a vehicle that has gears you didn't know about

so you'd go up against the people who were potentially going to be in the Olympics

or going to be on the world stage and it was I mean are they almost playing a different game

Yes, yes that's absolutely correct I mean these weren't even Olympians that I was playing against

because they were doing other things, better things, actually doing the Olympic qualification as it was happening

But, yeah, there's a massive gulf between being really, really, really good

and being Olympian or world-class athlete. But then that's it, isn't it

So where do we think this? It's not a great phone line, actually, Walter, so I'll crack on

but I'll ask others who can... That thing that's going on psychologically in these men

Would I have been one of these men when I was younger? Yeah, I would, I'm afraid, I think

Somewhere inside, I'd have thought, given the right chance, what sport would it have been that I might have actually been able to do the Olympics

Everyone is sending me messages saying the bobsled. You're joking, aren't you

I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, well, you've just got to lie still on one of them

Is it the lose? You've just got to lie still. I could do that. I could lie still. Imagine how strong their neck muscles are

or their core strength. They'll be like Pilates teachers. Imagine what their core strength is like

You don't just lie on it. You've got to lean into all sorts of things you've got to do

Ping-pong, not a chance, as Wouter points out. You think you're good

My algorithm started serving up ping-pong clips a couple of years ago. I told you at the time, and it's extraordinary

what these people can do with a ping-pong ball. I might need to rephrase that slightly

What about the Australian breakdancer? That was slightly different, wasn't it? is that she thought she was doing performance

I don't know. Maybe I could get in on the breakdancing. I couldn't get in on the breakdancing, Keith

Seamus is in Nottingham. Seamus, what would you like to say? Oh, hi, James. Thanks for taking my call

You're very welcome. Yeah, I'm an age group two athlete. I take part in international level competition

I represent Ireland at that level. And that's one level below elite

which would be one level below Olympic, if you like. And in order to be pretty average as an age grouper

I need to train 10 to 12 hours every week. Wow. Following very specific

What's your discipline? It's called duathlon. So it's a form of triathlon where you don't get wet

So running and riding, running and cycling. Running, cycling, and then running again

Oh, I see, right. So you run, you're cycling, then you run again. So that's pretty hardcore

And how old are you, if you don't mind me asking? I'm 64

Wow. And when did you start doing it? 50. Age 50. Why

It's a long story. It was a bet I had with my daughter

And the bet was if she did something, that I would take part in a duathlon

I'd never run in my life. It wasn't something I was interested in. Well, except for the bus

You'd never done it at a athletic time. That was about it. That was about it. That would leave me puffed out

So after a lot of training, that 10 to 12 hours training a week

I was able to get to the point where I was reasonably average enough

to be good enough to be amongst the worst in the Irish international team

So the effort required even to be sub-average is enormous. Sub-average, oh, I mean, I don't like it

But you, natural talent, okay, you must have some. Well, yes, there must be some in there

I can certainly finish and I don't come last in races and then training

so natural talent and then training what on earth are these lads thinking

because they can't have if they had like oodles and oodles of natural talent

then they'd already be doing something wouldn't they or their talent would already have been spotted

and then the training level so there's just a huge naivety about just how much training is involved

even as you say level 3 or stage 3 of the age group yes athletic

there's a huge naivety in in what's involved and also there'd be a considerable misunderstanding

about just how much effort you need to put in in order to achieve an incremental performance

improvement yeah yeah okay that's the dave brailsford stuff isn't it is the tiny tiny

improvements um what's your best ever result seamus best ever result well again that depends

when I run in, and this is a good example, when I run in local and regional races

I'll usually come in the top three, and from time to time I'll win

When I'm at international, I'm a spectator at the back. An old fan ran

Literally, an old fan ran. Because those guys at the front have hardly had any degradation

of their performance abilities. These 60-year-old guys are running like teenagers and they're cycling like teenagers

They're just so much better than the rest of us. That's interesting, yeah. I bet you're better off for it, though

in every other way, aren't you? You'd be a wonderful ambassador for the benefits of taking it a little bit seriously

especially later in life. But, yeah, that gulf is what fascinates me. The more you talk about it

the more obvious it is that these lads are just idiots. All of them, four out of ten, could be in the Olympics

what's wrong with them or possibly what's right with them what is the psychological rationale

for even now in this age of mass communication when you can see you know what the training

regime of somebody is or you can see that ludicrous um physical anomalies that make someone like

thought thought thought the torpedo such a magnificent swimmer and you're looking at that

and you're thinking yeah i reckon i was pretty tasty back at kiddo mr baths back in the day i

I could cut a rug. I was all right. And you think, yeah, I reckon I could

What is going on there? 12.32 is the time. James O'Brien on LBC

It is 12.35. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC. A couple of you mentioning that we haven't talked about wildfires

in other parts of the United Kingdom. Today, I've touched on Stourbridge

because that's where the scenes have been most severe and also because it is right in my neck of the woods

I grew up at the next town along in Kidderminster. I know Stourbridge quite well

But, of course, there are still serious problems in other parts of the United Kingdom as well

which we will continue to cover on LBC. But it is to Stourbridge that we go next because our Midlands reporter, George Icke

is there still on the scene, as indeed are various appliances. George, what's the latest

Well, James, at the moment, the question really is from a lot of residents, when can they go home

They've obviously been out of their homes for a substantial amount of time at this point

They stayed, some of them, overnight in the town hall, some of them in a local boarding school's dormitories

some of them even sleeping in their cars. But that then brings the next question, James

Is there a home to go back to? We know that at least six houses were on fire here yesterday

I spoke to one lady who lived with her very poorly mother, who was in her late 80s

They had a thatched roof on their house, and that was the first to go. and by the time she spoke to me at around half past eight, nine o'clock yesterday evening

their entire house had burnt to the ground. There are lots of houses that have been completely destroyed

I don't know the exact number, but I'd say it's into low double figures

I don't know anybody personally that's lost their house. But it was very, very scary

The actual fire has got close to a number of my neighbouring, my neighbours

But thankfully, you know, they've come here this morning and they're OK

but there are a lot of houses locally which have burned down

and it's going to take a number of days, I think, to really count the toll of what happened Now James that Simon Markey who the chairman of the golf club here And that is quite a crucial voice in this conversation because it was him yesterday out on the golf course who saw these flames ripping up across the other side of the road

The flames then blew across the road into the hedgerow of the golf club before lighting part of the golf course and the grass set on fire

And then someone from the office here at the golf club rang the fire service to come and deal with this

And then that was the start of many, many hours of intense firefighting

I mean, Sid, what can you see now? I mean, the idea of a house, six houses in fact, being burnt, not necessarily to the ground

but to be rendered entirely uninhabitable. How close together were the houses and how was it contained

Well, there was a fire that blazed the entire length of Racecourse Lane in Stourbridge

taking a number of houses in the process. But the problem also was, James, it's been very still for days on end

But yesterday, when the fire broke out, the wind here really began to pick up

And that was the biggest problem that firefighters were facing, was that one minute they were fighting a fire on one side of the road

the next minute the wind was blowing it across the road into another hedgerow and onto the golf course

but there's also been problems with the the level of water that's been available

from 7 Trent on the mains as well there was incredibly low pressure yesterday evening as

well after some of those problems have been dealt with but as you can imagine a lot of people who

were being told to evacuate were wanting to dampen their homes down before they left their houses

putting sprinklers on in the front garden to give any sort of chance that they might have a house to

come back to when they were able to return oh it's terrifying and as you told us of course still no

clear picture of when some of them will be able to return if they have a have a home to return to

I presume, George, not to not to ambush you, I presume that the people who were put up in a

boarding school overnight are at Old Swinford Hospital School, are they? That is very correct

James, yes. A little bit of local knowledge for you there. And in the longer term, this is a phoning

that we've done in the past with regards to floods, but not to fires, people are going to be

having to rebuild their entire lives aren't they well i heard from one chap this morning who had

converted a bungalow built it into the most beautiful house across two years has been living

there less than a year and virtually the entire house is now uninhabitable but it is now i mean

the fire is now out in conclusion largely yes there is still some significant hot spots so that noise

you can possibly hear yes is the police air service uh helicopter above me they also have a plane

that has been doing loops pretty much constantly since around five o'clock yesterday

trying to monitor those hotspots with thermal cameras so they can continue to dampen them down

Because the point is, James, it's still incredibly hot today and still incredibly dry

So any hotspots could then lead to more fires breaking out. And that is essentially what they were dealing with yesterday

was lots of little fires by the late evening, which are obviously much more difficult to fight, really

George, thank you. If you need a cup of tea, you know my mum's just down the road. i'll pop to kiddo mr james it is where i stayed last night thank you no worries george right there

live from stourbridge where as you've heard those wildfires have been more or less contained but

only after at least six families have seen their houses more or less completely destroyed and of

course many others the smoke damage will be will be hideous you know not not just the smoke damage

but the sheer smell of things thick acrid smoke billowing through your building then

you're not going to get back to normal in a hurry. It is 20 minutes to

1, back to the... Another thing, actually, I don't know why I've got so many questions about

this, but also the moment when you realised the gulf. So, you know, you thought you were really good

a bit like Valtteri with his table tennis. You thought you were really good at something. And you were

You were by far the best in your class. You're the best in your school. So you thought

to yourself, I've probably still got it, I'd be quite tasty. So you can hop onto the tennis court

with somebody whose name we've never heard of, but who is like a semi-pro

or something like that, and they just absolutely destroyed you. Destroyed you

This is nice, actually oddly, from a tennis professional. Here you go, a very ex-female

tennis professional here. The general response to question two, which is the one about

the size of the golf, is yes, there is a ginormous I love that word. Why don't we use that word more? There's a ginormous

golf in standards. For example, I've spent my whole life wiping the floor with non-tennis

player men who reckoned they could take me on. So presumably sort of half decent male club players

But to be professional, I wish you'd told me who you are. Anything is possible. So with 10,000 hours

that's I think the Malcolm Gladwell philosophy, isn't it? And you've got application, you've got

support, you've got mental agility. Crucially, you've got innate talent. You could perhaps

and genetic body composition. So we're back to Michael Phelps, aren't we

They're all hugely relevant in success. Mental agility, tactical nows, training, training, training

match fitness plus time. There are really too many variables to be precise

but yes, it would be technically possible. But there's so many things there

that would have to be aligned, so many planets that would have to be aligned. It's almost impossible to imagine

someone being able to turn it around in the space of the next two years

which is what four in ten men believe they would be able to do. Roberto is in Orpington. Roberto, what would you like to say

Good afternoon. I'm a performance psychologist working with Olympic athletes, world everyweight boxing champions, football teams, Premier League teams

and that golf is just, like you said, enormous. So four out of ten guys, is it four out of ten

Four out of ten reckon they could be in the Olympics in two years if they just got the training in

Absolutely no chance. Are you Roberto Forzoni? I am. Yeah, there we go

So you're absolutely on the top of your game. What is, I mean, what's the big, I mean, it's not your field of expertise, Roberto, to be honest

but what the hell is wrong with these men, these four men who think... Well, I suppose it is my area of expertise

I'm a psychologist. Psychologically they need to go and see someone to get a reality check So you come onto the scene when people are already world class and you trying to make the difference between the fine margins between coming fifth and coming first

Well, I actually work with young athletes as well as older people. So people just getting into their games

I work with professional athletes and even the difference between the championship and the Premier League or playing at the national level and international level

I have athletes saying the difference is enormous between those two. So you're a national player

You go to play internationally and they say, I can't cope because it's so different

You know, apart from the physical side and everything, all the other attributes you've spoken about

it's the psychological side because these athletes have gone through years of training and years of hardship and adversity

and being able to develop those skills to perform when it really counts

So, yeah, these guys are deluded. I think I first heard your name when you were working

or when Andrew Murray became, when Andy Murray became a big star

and we learned about the formation of Team Murray and all the people that put him together

I'm going to tell you something that might make you laugh at me, right? But that's all good. That's all healthy

I'm perfectly comfortable with being demeaned and humiliated. When I was playing cricket as a kid, right

Yeah. And I would be in the outfield, usually, and there'd be someone would sky a ball

and it would be coming towards me and I'd be running around the boundary and I used to get frightened of my hands hurting

so I'd be rubbing my hands getting ready to catch it. And if I thought for a minute

that I was going to drop the ball, I would drop the ball. Right? But if I was in the infield

and I didn't have time to worry and the ball, a much harder catch, is flying towards me at full tilt

and I've got to jump in a dive and catch it with one hand, I would. Unlikely though this sounds, Roberto

So I was actually quite good at that. So in the infield, when I didn't have time to contemplate failure

I performed a hell of a lot better than I did in the outfield because every time I thought I'm going to miss this ball

I would somehow miss the ball. How do you train someone out of that second thing? Time is the biggest enemy for most athletes

So you see golfers, it's between playing each hole when their mind gets in the way and it's all that noise

So like you said, when you haven't got the time to think and put obstacles in your own way

then naturally you can do better. So a lot of my work is in the downtime

whether it's cricket, whether it's boxing, whether it's football, what are you thinking about and where can you put your focus

Because we speak about bandwidth, and if you fill that out with noise, you've not got enough time to think about the processes

and what you do naturally. And you can learn then. You can get better at zoning it

Well, obviously you can, otherwise you wouldn't be on the top of your game, would you? You wouldn't be in the business you're in

Yeah. All right, while you're here, if I was to start from scratch, today, what

could I become world class at before I was 60? Maybe something like chess

Not a chance, actually. It would be even more ridiculous. Lovely stuff. Roberto, thank you

You can find out more about it. Roberto's qualifications just by looking

him up online, as I did when he came on the line. Extraordinary, really, to think that four

out of ten of us can think that the the four out of ten of us think we could make the Olympics

if we started in two years' time. I was quite good at cricket, Pete, I'll have you know

I was quite good at fielding. I played against you, James, and actually you weren't quite good at cricket

I don't know what claims you're making, but I was quite good at catching

That's all I was good at. I was quite good at catching, as long as I didn't have time to..

I caught Chris Tarrant out once in a charity cricket match. Did you know that

That was another one where I didn't have time to think about it, but as soon as I got time to think about it

Not a chance. I should have had Roberto on my side. Team O'Brien. There you go. That ship has sailed

James O'Brien on LBC. 10 to 1 is the time. I mean, some of these are quite poignant

This is from Doug. This one really got me, Doug. At the age of 13, James, I was the David Beckham of my school

I took all the corners, all the free kicks, even the goal kicks. I yearned to become a professional footballer

until my school invited a local town's under-13 team to play our firsts

I quickly realised that these kids were on another level. They scored several goals in the first 15 minutes and then their coach started clapping every time I took a kick, really shouting encouragement, I guess to try and make me feel better

But it didn't really help as I watched my dreams smashing before my eyes

That's the thing that Roberto was just touching on, this absolute gulf between being brilliant in a small pool and then moving into the big pool

like moving from being the best in your school to playing against the best in your country and

therefore of course the best in the world uh james is in chesterfield james what made you pick up the

phone hi james it's a pleasure to talk to you i'm just cutting my lawn on the back garden and

listen to this conversation and um i had a really humbling experience myself in 2004 in malaga

doing the tv show called superstars oh yes you remember that yes of course and um at the time i

was a world champion motorcycle racer and i was fit um i was running 10 miles on a treadmill in

one hour james toesland then it is well fantastic this is great that's two surnames for the last two

calls that i've uh plucked from the ether go on so yeah i mean for people who let's just get rid

of the jokers who think you don't have to be very fit to be a world champion motorcyclist you've got

to be in peak physical condition it's not easy to rattle a motorcycle around 160 kilometers at

160 kilograms at 220 miles an hour. It's quite physical for 40 minutes

And I did go down to Malaga thinking, I'm going to show these boys a thing or two

And there was Linford Christie. There was John Regis. There's Ewan Thomas

the current British 400-meter record holder at the time. And I went in with the inexperienced confidence

of an athlete in a different field completely thinking I was going to show them a thing or two

and my god, I went back to my motorcycle paddock and put my helmet and leathers back on

and I thought, I'll stick to this. There was one particular event, the 1,000-meter run

and it was against Ewan Thomas and I thought right Ewan you having it because I was a runner I did enjoy my running as part of my training We set off together and the setting off together bit

lasted about 10 meters. And I was at 100% pace at this point

and then realized that he was about 25% pace. And he kicked on, left me for dust

and then kicked on again for a sprint finish with the other guy he was racing against. I can't remember who it was at the time

but they were all the legends there doing the superstars program. I hope you sacked your agent

What on earth? Why did you end up there? That was just extraordinary. Well, it was a competition

where they got all different sports people. No, I remember it. I remember superstars

This was the resurrection of it, wasn't it? It was the first time around when Brian Jack..

Brian Jack was a judo player, and he used to win it, so you were perfectly reasonable thinking

that you might be able to make a massive impact. I won the gym competition

I was going to ask that. The squat thrust and the lunges

squash with lunges and dips i won that particular event um but the rest i thought i might have a

chance i was i'm it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't embarrassing it was not even close and i can't i

had to ring up just to kind of express but you're the perfect caller i mean you really are you know

you are an elite sports person and yet when you put yourself up against elite sports people from

other backgrounds it was it was i mean the golf isn't even the right word to use is it i was i

I was on a running track with you and Thomas. I was in a swimming pool with Duncan Goodview. And I honestly thought, because of the fitness level I got

I was going to have a bit of a shout-out to it. And honestly, James, like you say

the agent needed changing afterwards, and I never did it again. Four in ten men who haven't got any of the training you've got

still sitting there thinking, oh, a couple of years, I'll be all right. I could get in the Olympics in a couple of years

Yeah, but please just leave the chat to the pub, lads. Yes, I think you're probably right

I think you're probably right. I'm going to give you a Ray Liotta, James

because I can't think of anyone who would have been better qualified to make a contribution like yours

I'm Ray Liotta, and you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. If you build it, they will come

I don't know which one you're going to value more, but I've had a message off Shell as well, who says

OMG, I used to have such a crush on James Toesland. Thank you, I appreciate you

You're doing a fantastic job, my friend. You're a star. Have a great weekend. Thank you. 12.54 is the time

Speaking of stars, the guest on this week's Full Disclosure, one of my favourites in a while, actually

And, you know, I love almost everybody that comes on Full Disclosure. I was quite intimidated by this one, which is odd

given that Amelia de Moldenburg is considerably younger than me. You will know her, even if you think you don't

Of course you know who Amelia is. She's best known for Chicken Shop Date, but has subsequently seen her career move on to all sorts of levels

all of which we talked about. in the course of a full hour on Full Disclosure

as is our want, a tiny little flavour of which... Well, I'll tell you what she's talking about here

The circumstances in which the show Chicken Shop Date would end and also something you may not know about her

which is her passion for helping people from less represented backgrounds get into the creative industries, into the media

She's a wonderful, wonderful woman. and I know I sound like an old git saying that but she just is

I mean Chicken Shop Date has no shelf life does it? It could go on forever

Could go on forever. Well I need to meet the love of my life and then it's going to end. What happens when you do

Then I'll end. Yeah I mean of course you may already have done so but it would be professionally injurious for you to reveal that

No I have to meet the love of my life on the show and otherwise

When did you start thinking about giving something back? because the academy that you feel

I think feel very strongly about, the DIMS Inc. Academy, which I want to talk about properly

Quite early on in your career to be thinking about helping other people get

I've always seen the benefit in like being able to create a community

and a network of people, like-minded people that you can like work together

and you can collaborate with because no one does anything on their own and I haven't either and so the people and the connections

that I made at when I was a teenager have served me really well and so I thought it wouldn't be

amazing if I could just do something like that and then last year I partnered with Spiral Skills

who are my charity partner on this and I was able to provide a one-week program for young people in

London in the Lambeth area because that's where they're based and then this year it's going to

grow to four weeks, which I'm really thrilled about because the longer that you have with young

people, the better, the more likelihood it is that they'll get more, learn more and also create those

connections with other people. It's a bit like when you take the stabilizers off a bicycle and

you just need someone to hold you for the first few pedals. And if someone's holding you for the

first few pedals, you're fine, you'll be off. You might not even realize they've let go of you or

taken but but you can't do that alone. That one took me by surprise. It's a good job you weren't swearing Sheila Fogarty

It's just going out to talk. It also made me think oh I'll hold you

Yes well exactly you do. Do you need someone to hold you

Take the stabilizers off the back of a bike. You don't know do you until someone lets go. No you don't. Are you going to be able to cut the mustard or not

That is this week's full disclosure with the rather wonderful Amelia de Moldenburg

And that is almost it for this week. I need to say thank you to someone who sent me

I think it's Robert in Canada, who sent me an enormous mat for my enormous mug

which I forgot to bring into the studio today, so you'll have to take my word for it

And I also want to say hello to a listener whose daughter accosted me in Leicester Square earlier this week

Paul, Paul Cole, who listens every day, I'm told. So thank you, Paul, and Caroline, your daughter

is a credit to you. But that is it from me for today. If you missed any of the show

you can listen back on our free Global Player app or the LBC app, where you can also stay up to date with all the latest news, videos and opinions

You can listen to a range of podcasts, including James O'Brien Daily, the best bits from this show every day

Download the official LBC app for free from your app store now. James O'Brien on LBC