The bravest people in this country, terrorised by the cowards | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

Three minutes after ten is the time. I was struck by one thing this morning

Some people sort of greeting the really notable fall in knife crime, knife robberies in particular

the thing that various characters on social media and beyond pretend that London is somehow rendered uninhabitable by

come down by almost a quarter in seven forces in this country since June 2024

a key part of the Labour government's crime platform. Some people seem disappointed in it

I don't know if you've picked up on this, but there seems to be a sort of sense that, oh no, well, let's find evidence that knife crime is still happening

and then we can pretend that it isn't coming down overall. An extraordinary response to what should be surely greeted as good news

And it reminded me of the so-called small boat crossings and the bizarre way in which the people who claim to care the most about it

seem to be the most ignorant of the actual statistics. There's an extraordinary little story knocking about in the shallows this morning

about a sort of, some racists have put together an app that allows you to track these things in real time

and a lot of their fellow racists are complaining that nothing happens on the app because I suppose if you're relying upon social media

or fellow racists for your insights into small boat crossings, you think it's like Piccadilly Circus or Charing Cross Station

and there's a sort of endless crossing. If you're actually watching it in real time

it's like watching paint dry. But the numbers, of course, have plummeted

They're down 41% on the year in the first half of 2026

which means by all the laws of logic, it should be a less febrile issue than it was 12 months ago

And yet, of course, it isn't, because people have realised they can get a lot of attention and in some cases make a lot of money

out of drawing more attention to it, even as the problem diminishes

It's bizarre, right? People seem disappointed by news that is good for the country

And that's, of course, if you believe that reducing these numbers is definitely and definitively good for the country

Because some people obviously don't. And that brings us to one of the weirdest things I've ever had to talk to you

Some people wish that these people crossing the English Channel were left to drown and die, regardless of who they are

or where they've come from. There are many, many people who wish that they would just die

And that, of course, is a decision that's been arrived at without knowing whether they're fleeing the Taliban

or whether they're fleeing persecution in Syria, or whether they're fleeing countries where their political activities

or even their sex life have rendered them criminals. You don't know anything about these people until they have been properly processed

but you're happy for them to die. There are moments in a population's flirtation with fascism

that don't get noted enough. Those moments, I think, involve a migration, if you'd pardon the pun

from the targeting of the target to the targeting of almost everybody

You saw it when the flags started going up on lampposts. I was in the West Midlands at the weekend

and they are now exactly what many people realised they would be

You make your way around the outskirts of Redditch or Bronzegrove, you have tatty rags flying from Lampo

so committed to the community of the clowns that put them up there that they haven't got the wherewithal to go and take them down

now that they've been rendered manky old dish rags, ripped and tattered, torn and dirtied and still there

Not in anything like the numbers that they were, but it's not exactly a great exercise of community spirit, is it

to pollute people's communities and homes in that way. But, of course, the point was never to do anything other than

intimidate and segregate and separate. So it leeched off social media and it arrived on perhaps your street

And that's a flirtation with fascism. It's a step towards a place where if you are not part of a certain politics, then you are automatically an enemy

Automatically an enemy. You see it in the deployment of the word traitor. First the invaders, then the traitors is a very popular phrase at the moment among massive racists

The idea that every immigrant or every example of immigration is a negative

is Fascism 101. Know nothing about these people, but I'm going to behave as if they are all dangerous

as if they are all threats. But, of course, when it is aimed at asylum seekers

or it is aimed at immigrants or in the aftermath of Henry Novak's hideous murder

it is aimed at everybody whose parents came here from overseas when Nigel Farage expressly and deliberately

ignores the wishes of a grieving family and seeks to turn that hideous murder into a political opportunity

You're targeting brown people. You're targeting second-generation immigrants, first-generation immigrants. You're targeting anybody who is different, anyone who's not like you

So that's another flirtation, but it's not as significant as when the target moves on to people

who don't even fit the category that is being condemned. People who are not refugees, people who are not asylum seekers

people who may be able to trace their lineage in this country back beyond the doomsday book

You start targeting them. And that is what brings us today to a story that I think is, in many ways

the most significant of the year. a lifeboat station in Portsmouth has stopped operating

after its volunteers suffered abuse I'm going to say that again because it is almost impossible

to believe a lifeboat station in Portsmouth where hundreds of masked cowards

have been gathering in recent weeks has stopped operating after its volunteers suffered abuse

what do you say about this? What do you actually say about this

I, as you will know if you've listened to this programme before I have an enormous affection and admiration for Lifeboat volunteers

for our NLI volunteers I was trying to work out why this morning because I get a bit soppy about firefighters and soldiers for example

police officers in the sort of line of duty in the front line

And I think it's gratitude. I think it's born of gratitude. And it's born of a, perhaps a knowledge that I am probably not that brave

In the context of the emergency services and the armed forces, you have the choice to be like them

It is a decision that you make in your life and you follow that And it your job and it a professional course So I mean they run towards danger but that their job right

If you're a firefighter, you run towards the buildings the rest of us are running out of

That's your job. I remember where I was when I first fully clocked

that the RNLI consists almost entirely of volunteers. I was in North Berwick

about 40 minutes outside Edinburgh and I was reading about a track, well a rescue

actually from years before and I was looking at the lifeboat station that is

still there and something clicked, I think I knew subconsciously that they were volunteers or even

consciously, I've always been drawn towards RNLI centres probably because I get quite distracted

at the beach, I get quite bored quite quickly Some people can lie there for hours

I can't. I go wandering around. So, you know, I might spend an hour in an arcade

but then I will go to the lifeboat station as well, most recently at Cromer

which is an absolute cracker, by the way, of a lifeboat station

And I know I knew, but I didn't know, if you see what I mean

They're volunteers. So they've got jobs. They're electricians. or accountants. Always accountants with me, isn't it

I told you that the other day. They are sea lion trainers

No, they are people with jobs. And that, I think, adds an extra dimension of courage

What's an extraordinary thing to do with your spare time? This is not a criticism of you, right

What do you do with your spare time? What do you do with your spare time

I'm currently working my way through the tactic missions on James Bond First Light on the PlayStation 5

I'm reading a little bit. You know, I'm a trustee of a charity. I do a little bit of this and that

But mostly, with my spare time at the moment, I'm probably cooking, reading, playing games, or walking the dog

In my spare time. Cooking, reading, playing games, or walking the dog

That's what I do in my spare time. What do you do with yours? Be honest with me. Top of the list

What's top of the list? Imagine you've got a whole hour, later today, nothing in the diary, nothing in the schedule

What would you do? What do these people do? These people walk around with pagers

as they go about their business, their daily business. And if the pager goes off, they hot-foot it to an RNLI station

where they clamber into their waterproofs and their life jackets and they climb into a boat and they head out to they know not what

they could be pulling corpses out of the sea they could be saving lives

and throughout, at every turn at every moment they could make the ultimate sacrifice

and it's technically a hobby it's a volunteer service it's technically a hobby, I have a friend who does it

I know a few people that do it, but one person I I hold very dear

and I know some of the things that he has seen and some of the things that he has witnessed

and the idea that these people are terrorising these volunteers to such a degree that they've closed down

the station in Portsmouth is I think one of the most disgusting things

I've ever discussed with you in the 20-something years that I have been doing this job

not just because the behaviour is so base and so vile, but because of what the rest of us are becoming, because of the way that we talk

about these people as if they are protesters, as if they have legitimate concerns, as if they speak

for anything other than fascism and hatred. And I don't actually care how many likes they might get

on Facebook or how many calls other presenters might take from people who say, well, I think

they've got a point, because you're just fascists too. This isn't a mystery. Fascism doesn't grow up

in countries unsupported and randomly. It doesn't just sprout out of nowhere

while 99% of the population pointed it going, oh, that's not very nice, that's fascism

Fascism rises, fascism succeeds, fascism thrives when you let it, when you applaud it

when you excuse it, when you wave it through because of legitimate concerns

when you put politicians in Parliament who tacitly or actively encourage it

who actively encourage it. And those men and women who risk their lives

and would do so to save yours. Your little boy is on a lilo

and you get a little bit distracted because your little girl has fallen over

or she's dropped her ice cream and she wants to buy a new one and the next thing you know you can't see him

Or perhaps you think you can and the lilo is drifting out of sight

Who's going to go and get him? You can't. You're out fishing. Your grandad's out fishing

Massive wave knocks the boat sideways, the engine... Who's going to go and get him

You're not. These people are. Balaclava-wearing demonstrators blocked roads overnight on September the 6th

and vowed to stop migrants from leaving Portsmouth. They wanted those people to let those refugees die

You can find videos if you're interested where volunteers are being called traitors

after doing not their job, but what they seem to believe is their moral duty

Show me the moral duty of these clowns in balaclavas and then show me an RNLI volunteer

who is currently being abused to the point where they are advising their members

to stop wearing clothing that has the RNLI logo on it. And what are we all talking about

What's the big story at the moment? A family dispute between the king and his ex-brother-in-law

It's a good story. I'm not criticising it. We might talk about it ourselves at some point

but my God, these moments matter. These moments really, really matter. Because, look, you're a racist, you attack a brown person

You're a racist politician, you pretend that a crime by a brown person is somehow indicative of how all brown people will behave

You're a racist, you do racism. But when you allow it to extend to the terrorising

of the bravest people in this country, we've got a major chuffing problem

We have got a major problem with the way this is covered

and the way that it's excused and the way that it is happening

They have closed a lifeboat station because the people that crew it

have been terrorised, abused, maligned, insulted. what are we becoming

What are we becoming? Chief Executive and listen I don even know if this is a phone because they not allowed to talk to me That the way it works It is such a It such an honourable institution that you have to go upstairs

You can't just... I don't think you can. If you can, 03456060973 is the number

You can't, you can't, I don't believe, just tell me stuff. You have to clear it with HQ

You can't speak for the RNLI. But we've turned ourselves into a population where the bravest people in the country are being terrorised and closed down by the biggest cowards

The people who won't even show their face. Just think about that dichotomy for one second

Here's someone who hasn't got the guts to show their face. And here's someone who is having to remove the insignia of one of the most courageous institutions this country has ever created from their own clothes

because the threat of being terrorised, the threat of being abused, the reality of being screamed at

or having your tyres slashed or being attacked has become so acute

This is the United... This is our country in 2026. And you know what we're doing

We're telling the world, not that we're represented by the RNLI, but that we're represented by these cowards in balaclava helmets

That's what we're telling the world. that's what that's who we are now we're a place where the where the where the balance of power

lies with the people terrorizing the bravest human beings this country has managed to create

the people who get into a boat a boat in in in weather that you are advised not to go out in

that's the weather they are most likely to go out in the weather that you and me are told don't even leave the house that's when they pile into the sea

without any knowledge of whether things are going to get worse not knowing what it is exactly that

they're going to find and not knowing what it is they're going to have to do when they get there but do you know what they do they do what they need to do they risk their own lives to pull people

out of the water that memorial i mentioned to you at the very beginning in north berwick lists

some of the people who've perished in pursuit of this. I can't believe they're volunteers

Even now, I can't believe they're volunteers. They're volunteers. They do it

They do it. I haven't got the word. How often has that happened to me over all the years we've been together

When have I actually not... I can't say they do it for fun. They're volunteers

What are you doing with your spare time later today? Are you risking your life for others

Of course you're not. Are you risking your life to help people you have never met and may never see again

So when you are, as a population, flirting with fascism, the fascists insist that you pick a side

That's what you have to do. If you don't pick their side, you become targeted

After the invaders, it's the traitors. You don't pick their side. You don't either stay silent or embrace the racism

You become an enemy. And that's what they're telling you to do today

They're telling you to pick a side. So whose side are you on? The masked cowards or the bravest people in the United Kingdom

Because the masked cowards want the bravest people in the United Kingdom to let these humans drown

to leave them to die. That's why they're, quote, traitors, because they won't leave them to die

And yeah, some days I have a bit of a rail about the state of our media

and some days I complain about the failure to properly recognise the dangers that we're facing

and some days I get on my high horse, and some days I'd probably go a bit too far

But not today. They're targeting RNLI volunteers. to the point where they've shut down a lifeboat station

slashing tyres, inciting violence, directing abuse at the bravest of us, the very, very best of us

And I stick with that because it's not their job. They're braver for me than the soldiers and the fire

even braver, because it's not their job. they do it genuinely and truly

out of the goodness of their heart and we're letting ourselves become a country

that pays more attention to the scumbags shutting them down than it does to the people who will save your children

if they fall out of a boat in the ocean in the sea next summer

I don't know what the phone in is 0345 6060 973 James O'Brien on LBC

It is 25 minutes after 10, and no, I'm not apologising for that

I'm sorry. I'm sorry for not apologising. I can't... I never know how emotional I'm going to get

I don't think I've ever been this emotional on the radio. Not during Covid, not after the Manchester terror attack

at the Ariana Grande concert. I just can't believe this because of who these people are

and what they do and how we've allowed these cancers to grow within our communities

that lead us incrementally to a place. This doesn't happen overnight. If this had happened overnight, if they..

Ten years ago, I'd come on the radio and said, I've had to shut down a lifeboat station because some racist thugs are terrorising the volunteers

All the alarms would have gone off, right? But it's happening incrementally

And, of course, underpinning all of it, the actual numbers of these crossings

that everybody professes to care so much about are down 41%. so even if you do lie awake at night worrying about this stuff

you should be less worried today than you were last year. John's in St. Helier in Jersey

John, what made you pick up the phone? Hi, James. I'm a current online crew member

and just getting emotional like you were before, it's disgusting the way that these crew are being treated

by these horrible people. Has it reached you at all, or are you just reading about the people

Well, no, we're obviously set back from it a little bit just due to our geographical location

But the stuff I've seen in the social media the last week is just horrible

These people, like you say, we're volunteers. We give up our time. We leave our day jobs

We leave our families. They go out in some terrible conditions to deal with some terrible situations

And it's not fair for these guys to be treated the way they are

The museum in Poole in Dorset has been shut down after its volunteers were subjected to intimidation and verbal abuse

A bloody museum, John. Commemorating in many ways, because these museums usually do

Your colleagues who made the ultimate sacrifice. That's normally a big focus of the museums that I've been to

I don't know if I've been to the one in Poole, but staff have been doxing

This is from the Museums Association. Verbal harassment physical intimidation Yeah Of men and women like you Why did you do it mate It a massive I don know sense of pride I get to give back to a community

It's just I can do something to give back, and it's great to go to people's, you know

in their sometimes their dying need. But you can pick up. I mean, to give something back

you could go out and pick up litter, or you could go and paint over some graffiti

I mean, in a good way, not in the way that Robert Jenrick encourages people to do

But the risking of your life, that's something that you, I mean, you're conscious of it and you're cool with it

Yeah, massively so. I've been out there sometimes and the world is close

And we're a massive family, you know. It's like you're joining like a team and you get a sense of community from it

We can, you know, like I said, just help people when they need it the most

And we don't care who they are. Half the time, well, 90% of the time

we don't know who we're going to until we get there. They want you to leave people to die, these cowards, don't they

These masked cowards. I don't see what you are supposed to do

to insulate yourself from the abuse that you're currently receiving. You're supposed to leave people to die

It's like asking a doctor to reverse the Hippocratic Oath and do harm

First, do harm. Instead of first, do no harm. They're literally asking you, from the safety of their covered faces

to leave people to die. Yeah, I think if they saw it, they would turn around

And I've not seen it myself, but, I mean, some of the stuff I've seen..

Yeah, well, I don't normally do that. I don't normally immerse myself and my listeners into the sewer

that much of social media has become, and not just, of course, since Elon Musk bought Twitter

Facebook can be just as hideous these days. Nigel Farage was laughing

at that woman from Piddington the other day on his television show, the one that

rang us, Rachel, describing how heartbreaking it is for her to realise that

her neighbours and friends that she's known for years must be looking

at her own mixed family her own mixed race children differently from how they look at white children because of the way

that they're behaving in the context of other events. Nigel Farage played

a clip of her speaking to Newsnight and came off the back of it cackling, cackling, literally cackling

Now you wonder why some people think that they have the support of the establishment or the support of politicians when they terrorise volunteers

to such a degree that they've shut down a lifeboat station. I guess from John's call that you can talk to me

you're probably not allowed to tell me your real name, but my God, I hope you're getting the support and the help that you need

But where's it going to come from? It's a volunteer organisation run on a comparative shoestring

They raise a lot of money, but guess what? They spend it all on saving lives and buying boats

I don't know what's in place in terms of... Do you know what really... I don't even know if I can tell you this

I can't say the name of my friend to you because I'm worried about sticking a target on his back

What have we become? Here's Lottie Morley with the headlines. James O'Brien on LBC

How can it not be a bigger story? I mean, I don't understand

Genuinely, you know I've got rubbish news sense. It's why I do this. Instead of fulfilling my childhood dream of editing a newspaper

a story could literally land in my lap and I wouldn't notice it was a story

So I appreciate that I'm rubbish at knowing what deserves attention according to the current affairs paradigm

or the current affairs metric. but the moral metric, the moral metric

the bravest of us being terrorised, their headquarters being shut down for fear of abuse

And what are we doing? Is it because... How do you write an editorial about this

without acknowledging that you've been describing the RNLI as a taxi service for the last three years

You have literally created the inferno of hatred that is now being directed at volunteers

So what are your choices? Own it and apologise? Point out the statistical reality of so-called small boats

Or just shut up now for a while and wait until it's all died down a bit

and then you can go back to describing the RNLI as a taxi service and somehow implicitly but very carefully

because if you want to do it explicitly and uncarefully, you better wear a balaclava

But if you want to do it implicitly and carefully, then you just use language like taxi service

You never come out and say, let them die. You never come out and say that, except you probably do soon, if you haven't already

Remember, I don't need to tell you which political parties I'm thinking of. If they haven't said it yet, they probably will soon

One of them will. And they won't be cautioned any more than they're cautioned for complaining about there being too many brown faces on the television

And to think that flipping, moseley-munching do-gooders like me sit there wondering about whether it's correct and accurate and fair

to use the word fascism yet. Oh, let's have a philosophical forum

on whether or not we should be using the F word. When you're literally complaining about there being too many brown faces

on television and calling for refugees to die in the English Channel

while terrorising the people that will save your children if they're ever in peril in the sea

I mean, come on. You can see why it's not a bigger story, can't you

Because it's a symptom of a disease. And the disease has been inculcated into our population

by people who write newspaper columns and present radio programmes and lead political parties

And here we are, getting all upset about it. And then in a month it'll be something else

and the tide pardon the pun, the tide never really recedes, never really comes back

in again because you're telling these people that they're representing legitimate concerns or they

speak for Middle England writing a column in the Daily Mail about oh well I'm surprised there aren't more of them

and they turn up outside the Daily Mail and everyone locks themselves in the ladies it's just shocking isn't it

to think that they would dare to describe these scumbags as an aberration

or an exception when they are the natural progression of mainstream public discourse

represented by people like Nigel Farage and the Daily Mail. This is a natural progression

You use phrases like taxi service, they will attack the taxi drivers

because you have been persuaded that the passengers are a danger or a threat without any evidence

Show me a thousand people and one criminal. Where else do you find 999 people guilty

But RNLI volunteers. Come on. Ash is in Northampton. Ash, good morning

Good morning, James. What do you want to say? James, I don't think you're emotional and angry enough

I wouldn't be able to get my words out if I turned it up any further

or if it got turned up any further. I... OK. not served with the RNLI

but I have done search and rescue operations all over the world with various navies

various civilian people as well. Having worked with the RNLI in UK waters

they are the best. The best of the best of the best

I cannot overstate how good they are. I am absolutely livid from an island nation that is supposed to be the home of seafarers. Yeah

I genuinely cannot express in words how disgusting this is to every seafarer and to every person in this country should be the same

It's unbelievable. Why isn't it? why isn't it? yeah the telegraph to be fair put it on their front page

not as the main story RNLI station halts rescues over migrant protest abuse so

you know it's not a protest it's terrorism and it is working because

they've shut down the lifeboat station but fair play to them for at least

sticking it on the front page nobody else has why is it not

eliciting the response that it so obviously deserved I always go back to

seafarers. It's not even about seafarers now. The RNLI, when I was working in Fleetwood

the Fleetwood lifeboat is run and manned by the lecturers, the people that

work at the college, because obviously they're all ex-seafarers. Okay. Somebody had to man the fort when they all went on a

shout, because all the pages would go off and they would just leave the lecture theatres. And that would be it

Thankfully, we're at a nautical college where every single one of those students understood that when that pager goes off, they run

Because it could have been them. Yeah. And, you know, I just can't fathom this

Now, there's one thing I did want to say, and that was, you said you don't know what the RNLI guys can do to get support

Seafarers' mission, the mission to seafarers, has a whole wreath of services available

that they can call up to, that they can make use of

So does the RMT, the Rail and Maritime Transport Union. Possibly Nautilus, but I'd have to check on that

But definitely the Listen to Seafarers and the RMT are absolutely able to support

And the reason being, the RMT, it is their members. Of course

That are the ones that will be in the proverbial. We will be coming to the rescue of

the RNLI will be coming to the rescue of. Yeah. And also, sorry, the Fisherman's Charity as well

The Fisherman's Charity as well. And the volunteers will know this, and I'm sure that the RNLI also has its own systems in place to support them

But I'm so grateful to you for reminding us of good, because they are all good things

The mission to seafarers, the Fisherman's Charity, the Rail and Maritime Union, which, of course, will have saved countless lives itself by successfully making sure that various governments brought in various legislations that mean that we're not putting seafarers at as much risk as they would otherwise and would once have been at

And, of course, many people have chosen to donate directly to the RNLI as a consequence of what is going on at the very moment and what has been going on more broadly. you

I mean I don't know I'm a bit hung up on this and maybe I shouldn't be but

I can't believe they're volunteers do you know what I mean? I know

I know I know the sentiment James you've got to remember as well it's

I've always equated it to whenever I've met people around the world it's the same as the

volunteer firefighters in America yeah some jobs are too important until he left undone

And as I say, I didn't. I chose to be a lecturer and stay behind for those things

I'm not having a go at you, Ash. By the time I got there, I'd seen enough of it. By the time I got there, I'd seen enough of Search and Rescue

to last a lifetime, having done it from the big ships out in places that you don't want to go to

And it's... Like all things, there's something within British people that draw us to the sea

Yes, you're right. Well, we've had to. Yeah, and we were the country that led on SOLAS, the safety of life at sea thing, after the Titanic disaster

You know, we are so passionate about being a seafaring nation. You know, rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves

as much as that is an imperialistic march, there is something in there that speaks to every British person

being an island nation. It is. I mean, when you put it like that

it's arguably the single most patriotic thing you can do during the RNLI

Yeah. Because it's not paid, and it is incredibly risky, and it speaks directly to the uniqueness of these islands

Yeah. And it's not just going out on the shelves. It's manning the towers

It's manning the radios. It's all the other incidentals that you can do

Going into the shop and working in the shop for an hour or two means that somebody can hand over money so that lives can be saved

It's one of the things in this country that we should be the most proud of

And yet here we are, watching people passing a tin around, asking for money for themselves, covering their faces

and terrorising these volunteers. You know, sometimes, mate, you listen to the show a lot

sometimes I find myself addressing these issues, and the more I articulate it, the more I calm down

Do you see what I mean? The more I kind of... But the more we talk about this, the more sick I am

Actually sick of what has happened to these people. Well, this is the same fury that we've been feeling

since he stood on the beach with his binoculars and started bashing the men and women that go out and do this

I presume he's deployed the taxi line as well. I'm not 100% sure

I don't want to do him any service, but it didn't come from nowhere, did it

It didn't come from nowhere. Oh, yeah, here it is. Farage accused the RNLI of acting as a taxi service

for illegal trafficking gangs by rescuing migrants crossing the channel in English small boats

What did he think was going to happen? I knew exactly what he thought

because I know what he equates to be the average taxi driver. And that's what he's trying to stir up in his people

What did he do? And these are my sisters and brothers that you're talking about

And that because you are a member of the Maritime family But actually in a way they all of our sisters and brothers because they don stop to check who it is that they risking their lives to rescue Yeah And Nigel Farage wants them to He wants them to stop and check and he wants them to not rescue people if they don fit his idea of what is desirable and what is not desirable

And that's fascism. Yeah. Well, you asked once, James, how far will they go after they took a royal

who rushed away from an interview to help with a shout. Yeah

How far will they go? This is how far they'll go. Nothing's sacred, is it

No, there's nothing patriotic about it, nothing honourable, nothing sacred. If the hatred has consumed you so completely

as it has with people like Farage and people like these masked Muppets

then nothing matters. Nothing matters. Who are you going to go after next

A war hero. Okay. Because he married a woman of colour? Yeah

Can't say that bit out loud, but that's why we hate him. Who are you going to go after after that

I think RNLI volunteers have got it coming, says Nigel Farage, but cleverly, implicitly, slyly

And here's a newspaper editorial saying that this is, you know, this is what happens

when you ignore legitimate concerns. No, this is what happens when you ignore fascists doing fascism

This is not what happens when you ignore... What's an illegitimate concern? This is what happens when you ignore fascism rising

You end up closing lifeboat stations, crewed by volunteers, because they are being terrorised and abused and attacked

by the most cowardly countrymen anyone could ever be cursed with sharing a country with

James O'Brien on LBC. 10.14.9 is the time and they call themselves patriots

Some of them even call themselves Christians. Eternal Father, strong to save

whose arm does bind the restless wave, who bids the mighty ocean deep

its own appointed limits keep. O hearers when we cry to thee

for those in peril on the sea. 19th century hymn, recognizing the unique nature of these islands that Ash described

and the unique relationship of our population with seafaring, with matters maritime, for good or for ill

You know, what we called explorers or privateers. Other countries perhaps would have called pirates

But our mastery of matters maritime is a huge part of our island history

and our success as a nation, if you want to use that word

and none of it happens without a safety net and now people who call themselves patriots

are slashing that safety net with Stanley knives. That's barely even a metaphor

because some of these volunteers have had the tyres of their vehicles slashed. They've started peeling the stickers out of their windscreens

because they're worried that their car will get vandalised and the people doing it call themselves patriots

even Christians. and listen how guilty do you think you are about this when when did you not stand up and say well

actually i have been persuaded to be worried about large numbers of people moving into a

former military base and i know i said i wanted them all moved out of the hotels and now i'm

complaining about where they're being moved to but um you know and i appreciate it's very difficult

but I don't want this. I don't want this. They don't speak for me

Where's that long queue of people? Where are the newspaper columns saying

well, I remain persuaded that we need to come up with a better system

than the one that has been imposed upon us by various Tory governments that the Labour government is currently doing its best to undo

I remain persuaded of that but I don't want this. that's why they can't say anything

what can you do? you've been told to pick a side you either side with the fascists

or you oppose them or you stay silent and guess what? if you stay silent

you're siding with them so you can't stay silent any more than they can ignore

the pager buzzing in their pocket in the middle of a family dinner on Christmas day

and they down cutlery rush to the lifeboat station climb into the boat

and go out to save people that politicians and pundits and presenters in this country

would rather they left to drown. Rule blooming Britannia. Britannia rule the waves

Peter's in Epping. Peter, what would you like to say? Hi, James. It's much easier talking to you about a mystery

than it is about this. But it's important. and I really appreciate you calling it out

I'm a navigator for the RNLI and our station does 80, 8-0 shouts a year

We do exercises twice a week. I've only been doing it a handful of years

but I did it because I watched Saving Lives at Sea and I thought it was just, you know

what an amazing thing to be part of. And my goodness me

that was an underestimation on my part massively. The thing you get from doing something for a stranger

I mean, I was listening to you earlier and you said, you know, why don't you pick up litter or do graffiti

Just for people who've just tuned in, we need a bit of context there

I wasn't suggesting... No, no. Do you know what? Your point is right

Actually, you know, Britain, if you're listening, do things for other people

It doesn't matter what it is. If you want to clean some graffiti and pick up some litter, please do it

I choose to do the Isle of the Lion. I'm very proud to do it

and despite, you know, the weeks of holiday without my family to do the training

despite training twice a week, despite, you know, rescuing people and it doesn't always go well

you know, you're right, we do pick out bodies from the sea and they're not always alive

and that's very distressing. You know, I still don't feel like I've given more than I've got out of the RNLI

despite all of that. Wow. That's what I'm at. Wow. Well, I guess that's..

your local community. That's logical actually, otherwise you wouldn't actually do it, would you

But it means that it's feeding something inside you that is incredible and noble

and special and you're too modest to acknowledge that, but what you are getting out of it

being more than what you put into it, is the mark of the man that you are

I appreciate you saying that. I bloody mean it. Well, that's kind of you. I mean, if you don't mind

there's a couple more things I just wanted to say because I think, I'm so grateful

for you bringing it out because I've spoken to the RNI and it's very difficult for them to..

They've got to represent an institution that covers them at the country

It's 200 years old, and that's bigger than me. It's bigger than any of us. It's one of the jewels in our crown, alongside the NHS

from my perspective, in terms of what makes us great as a country. So they're restricted

And then I see Nigel Farage threatening to prosecute when they're in government. If they get into government

they'll prosecute the RNI for doing what they do. And I just think to myself, exactly as you said

What have we become? I mean let put the R to one side for one second What have we become that that kind of thing from a Member of Parliament is okay It not And the response is you know maybe we shouldn you know wear RNLI

branded clothing. People protest outside of the RNLI HQ. It's a big local employer, nothing else

These are the bits of the organisation that are not volunteers. These are the people providing

salaries, earning salaries. Paying tax. How do you talk about it among

each other? It's difficult. I mean, I think yeah, I mean, I'm only going to talk on behalf of myself because I think

that's the only thing that's valid if you don't mind. No, absolutely fine. I would say

I just want to be sure you're getting the support that you deserve. Yeah, I mean, look

there is a tremendous sense of, I can't think of a more gender neutral

term than brotherhood but you know what I mean it's that there's that team because we've all got

each other's backs no matter what um and so we have that um and and I think that even even if

you sat there at home listening thinking yeah but you are a taxi service or whatever the phrases are

that people are using yeah one thing I would just like to correct is we only go out if the Coast

Guard have asked us to of course right so we go out and we assist or we support or whatever is

required. Now, in the case of on the South Coast, I don't know the ins and outs of the specifics

but if they hadn't gone, what's going to happen? That boat would have

landed in Portsmouth, and if you're so worried about asylum seekers, they would have landed on the

shore and dispersed, and you'd never found out where they'd gone. Or worse

you've got dead bodies washing up on your shore. That'll disturb your dog walk in the morning on the

beach. Whereas we go out, and guess who we're talking to the entire way? Back to the shore

The Coast Guard. Yeah. Who talked to the police. Who talked to Border Force

Who talked to, you know, all the authorities. So that when they arrive

they're getting processed straight away. And if that's your main concern, let us

do our jobs. The problem is... Yeah. Disgusting. Well, it's beyond disgusting. It's beyond disgusting

I mean, victimising anybody undeserving is disgusting, but there's something there's something uniquely disgusting about victimizing the bravest and i say it until i

tell my until i lose my voice the bravest people in the country pound for pound you know because

it's volunteering and it is hazardous and fatal and utterly utterly um unrewarded except with that

sense that you so beautifully articulated at the beginning i'll ask you another question you

probably won't want to answer so i you cling to humanity at times like this you have to and

And speaking to the people I've spoken to today makes it easier for the people listening to remember that there's good among us

I wonder whether the people in the masks, if they were actually, if they were the last line of safety for a drowning person

I wonder, I still want to think they'd pull that person out of the water

That they've had their brains boiled and their attitudes manipulated and their hearts poisoned

and I still want to believe that if it was, even if they knew for sure that it was a refugee

I still want to believe that most of these men who haven't got the guts to show their faces in public

would actually do the right thing in those circumstances. I think you've got to hope, haven't you

Yes. I make sense of it that they are, I hope they are a small minority

and that they don't represent the silent majority that recognizes what organizations like the RNLI do

and the good values that I think are inherent in our country

But you've touched on a number of different topics over the years. This isn't going to happen overnight

We're not going to wake up tomorrow and go, oh, we're all in a fascist state now

It creeps in. And when MPs are allowed to post on social media

that they would prosecute us. I haven't seen that. I'm not doubting you

because you've clearly paid a lot of attention to this, but I specifically haven't seen that myself

He certainly introduced the phrase taxi service into public discourse or, as is more likely

nicked it off another racist online and passed it off as his own. Well, speaking of cowardly behaviour

I believe he deleted it. Okay. But the point is, it went up there

and I've got a screenshot of it, but I'm talking to you, so I can't... No, I believe you

I believe you. I'm just saying for the record, I haven't got proof in front of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah

But the rest of it is all on the record and undeleted. Yeah

And what is the alternative? You, as a navigator, can you see any other alternative to this

than they want you to leave these people to die? I don't know

Yes, I think that's... I think if you ask them, are you all right with people dying in the sea, then

They'd probably say to you, yes. But exactly to your point, if we took them out on the boat

and they're there in the water and you say to them, so you're sure you're all right with this

you're sure? He's going to leave them because he's looking at you and he's asking you for help

Are you sure about this? Yeah. I would, I mean, you've got, I think you're a sociopath

if you're going to leave them out there. You've got bigger problems and you'll be on help

is my view. But I've emailed my local MP and I've said

you've got to call this out. You can't, you can't have members of parliament

saying things like this about something like the RNLI. You know, my view strongly is

this is going to creep in. This is, you know, it, read a history book

for God's sake people, like this is how it comes in, you know and it's when it suddenly, you said it

so many times, you know you can probably ignore it until it

affects you, well it's affecting me now that's funny, yeah, you're right aren't you

and I'm worried, you know we put banners on our house when there's like an open

day for the station, right, and my wife never makes me feel guilty at any of the times

I've ever gone out, gosh I've got a seven year old boy take your time

it's all good it's just not right mate and you're it's not even about the RNLI

it's like that's why I wanted to call you in because you're one of the few people

that's turned up for this stuff there's lots of us actually I just happen to have a radio show

and I think you were going to suggest that you're not sure you'll put the banner up next time

No, screw them. I'm going to do it. I'm not going to be intimidated

I appreciate it. But I've had to have the conversation with my wife

and say, are you all right with this? Because I really want to carry on and I'm not going to let people intimidate us

And unfortunately, the community we're in, I would say is 99% supportive

So I don't feel that threat. But, you know, a boat, They actually got in a boat and went out to the crew

that was returning to Great Yarmouth to shout abuse at them. I mean, seriously, channel that energy into something more useful

What is wrong with you? And what would have happened if that boat had capsized? I mean, not exactly the sharpest knives in the..

I wouldn't have done that. We would have picked them up straight away and we'd have brought them back in, you know

I know you a star mate and I know people like you because I know people like you don like the praise that people like me want to lavish upon you

but my God, thank goodness people like you exist. Well, and can I just say thank you to everyone who does donate

I mean, we've got, there's neighbouring towns to us, and it's not just, this is the thing, it's not just us on the boats

there's shore crew, there's families, there's the fundraisers as well. sat outside of Tesco in land

I've had those fundraisers tell me, oh, we're not getting as much as we used to

and people are saying, well, you're bringing all those asylum seekers in, or the immigrants. You're like, what

There aren't even any in this... Excuse me, I'm mumsing my language

In this town? What are you talking about? Sorry, this is why

I represent my personal views, not that of the RNLI, you know, because they're much more responsible than I am

But no less brave, or indeed no more brave. Thank you, mate

And I look forward to having a bit of a giggle next time you ring in on Mystery Hour. Appreciate it

Thank you for giving me the time. God bless you and all of your colleagues. And there you go

I don't want to say it, but I'm going to. Pick a side. Who do you want in your corner

Him? Or some crap kidnapper called stupid by a judge in a case that was brought

because he kidnapped the wrong person while trying to settle a drug debt

or recover money lost in a drug deal. Go on, pick a side. Pick a side, patriots

Pick a side, fellow Christians. Who do you want in your corner? These men and women or that clown

James O'Brien on LBC. Minutes after 11, I'm not going to move on just yet

partly because, as Peter just reminded us, people aren't talking about it, and they should be

Everybody should be. I suppose if you've used phrases like taxi service and you are a politician or a member of the media

then if you're capable of feeling shame, That shame on a day like today will just be too great for you to return to this territory

Farage feels no shame, by the way, so he won't hesitate. He might just hide for a while

But he generally only does that when he's been busted for secretly accepting money from foreign-based billionaires

and doesn't want to answer any questions about it, except by shouting Bernard Manning at the camera

But if you do not do shame, if you cannot feel shame, then you will just be waiting for this story to blow over

And, of course, it will. of course it will. I haven't even touched on the online stuff

except with the very first caller in Jersey. Because we're talking about

as we have done now for the best part of a year, the migration of online race hate

into real-life race hate. The flags were the clarion call, the flags were the first example of it

I'll tell you what, the criminal records or the criminal charges being faced

by some of the key players in that flag-hanging world are absolutely off the charts

absolutely extraordinary. And we're supposed to be surprised, are we? We're supposed to sit here being surprised by it

And then you look at the criminal records of the ringleaders of all of these movements

whether it's Stephen Yaxley-Lennon or this Daniel Thomas character. We're supposed to be surprised by their criminal records

That we're supposed to hold them up as paragons of virtue while they incite attacks on lifeboat volunteers

And I'm not just cross with them, I'm afraid. And I don't think that our disgust is confined to the key players

because you go on Facebook now, find a little clip of Nigel Farage laughing at the woman in Piddington

who is heartbroken that her village has been turned into a place where she's not sure her own children will be safe anymore

And Nigel Farage comes off the back of that clip cackling. find it online and look at all the faces below

now many of them using their real names unashamed, unapologetic yep I'm a racist I think it's hilarious that this woman has been terrorised

find an online thing go on your Aunty Doris' Facebook have a look at the RNLI stuff

and just revel if you're disgusting in how many people welcome attacks

on courage and bravery while championing cowardice and hate. That's the choice

That's the choice. Are you in favour of cowardice and hatred or courage and kindness

That's the choice. Well, I'm in favour of courage and kindness, but not for them

Spoiler alert, mate. You're in favour of cowardice and hatred. Courage and kindness is blind

Courage and kindness doesn't get to choose to whom you show courage and kindness

You want to talk about Christianity? You talk about turning the other cheek

You talk about helping people that society has shunned. These people call themselves Christian

while they're attacking people that society should celebrate. And that's the choice

Courage and kindness. Or cowardice and hatred. And if you think that the cowardice and hatred

is confined to the clowns in the masks, then well there are newspapers you've clearly never opened radio programs you've clearly never

listened to and i don't know hundreds of thousands if not millions of people on facebook that you've

never had the unpleasant experience of encountering because that's the thing about decency and goodness

is that it's not bespoke it's not tailored you know so i talk about nigel farage a lot

I absolutely abhor the vaguest suggestion that anyone should ever seek to hurt him or his

I abhor it as much as I would anyone suggesting that you should seek to hurt me or mine

Political violence is so utterly disgusting. Courage, kindness and decency demand that you extend those qualities even to people who would not extend them to you

you do not get to say well they deserve it and they don't otherwise it ceases to be courage it

ceases to be kindness and it ceases to be decency it becomes something very very different and that's

the choice that's where we are now a hierarchy of humanity and these ghouls have the audacity

to claim that they are the victims of two-tier social conduct they're the victims of it well

they are literally saying, let them die, don't let them die. Let them live, don't let them live

They're literally saying that. In some cases, explicitly on telly. Let them drown. And they

claim that they're the victims of two-tier society, or two-tier police. I mean, you couldn't

make it up, could you? Can I do a poem, or would that be absolutely ridiculous? I got sent this

poem by a very, very senior politician some years ago after a fairly infamous

encounter with one of the people most responsible for bringing fascism to Britain

on a scale that we've never seen it before. And it stays with me. I haven't learnt it

I probably should. It's by Michael Rosen. And it ties in almost

exactly with what Peter was talking about at the end of the last hour, and

inevitably, an awful lot of love coming in for you, Peter, as well

as your colleagues in the RNLI. it's called fascism Times Fear by Michael Rosen and it's just brilliant and you need to listen to this

I don't do poems on the program and I promise I'm not going to make a habit of it but this is short and perfect

I sometimes fear that people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress

worn by grotesques and monsters as played out in endless reruns of the Nazis

Fascism arrives as your friend. It will restore your honour, make you feel proud, protect your house, give you a job, clean up the neighbourhood, remind you of how great you once were

Clear out the venal and the corrupt, remove anything you feel is unlike you

It doesn't walk in saying our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution

it doesn't it doesn't walk in so i finished the poem now saying we're going to be slashing the

tires of rnli volunteers vehicles we're going to be terrorizing the bravest people in the country

so deliberately and so cowardly while wearing masks that they shut down the lifeboat station

and then muppets like me sitting thinking oh should we really be using the f word yet

should we really be talking about fascism yet? Let's have another philosophical symposium

And while we're having our philosophical symposium, they're terrorising lifeboat volunteers. LBC

James O'Brien on LBC. 17 minutes after 11. The phone lines are open

My apologies if I sometimes give the impression that they're not. 0345 60 60 973 is the number you need

I haven't really asked a question today. I'm not sure I should. I'm not sure I need to

But is there any way back from this? There has to be. But what is the way back from this

from becoming a country where lifeboat volunteers, RNLI volunteers get terrorised to the point of closing down one of their stations

And it's not the only thing to close down. The museum in Poole is shut due to abuse of the volunteers working there

And if you were to open a newspaper this morning, or certainly last week

you could be forgiven for thinking that much of the UK's media was on the side of the Muppets in masks

I don't know how you come back from this. And the patriots are the ones ruining the country

The people calling themselves patriots are terrorizing the brave. And don't forget raising money while they do it

When you've seen through the grift completely, it's extraordinary to see so many people still falling for it

Let's save our country by hanging tatty flags up from all the local lampposts and terrorizing RNLI volunteers

Here's my crowdfund. Here's my GoFundMe. Here's my bucket into which I'd like you to put money you can barely afford to part with

Because I'm saving you from migrants, refugees, asylum seekers, fighting age men

Here I am to save you. Now give me some money. Come on

I still, I don't know. I always think we're better than this. But my goodness me, it's a harder conviction to hold on to unless I get to speak to the kind of people that I've been speaking to today

John's in Tower Hamlets. John, what would you like to say? hello James, lovely to speak to you

and thanks very much for raising this it's really quite important and obviously it's quite close to my heart

hence me calling in I'm Launcher Authority for a lifeboat station down in Kent

and my crew and when I say crew it's not just the people that go out on the lifeboats

it's the people, the shop staff as well our shop staff are generally

sort of old age quite elderly aren't they in my experience This is where you can buy your tea towel and your kite to fly on the beach and stuff like that

Exactly, and a shameless plug for people to go and do so immediately

Absolutely. I can particularly recommend the little pocket-sized kites. They're great fun, but it does have to be quite windy

Indeed. Indeed. But we've got a shop member, a volunteer, who's got the British Empire Medal for his services to charity and the R&Li

and I think that says a lot more about being a patriot to your country

and getting some kind of award like that than, as you say, hanging flags or walking around in a balaclava

Doesn't it just? Some of the staff in my shop have had people walking

not to buy anything, just to give them a little light bit of abuse. Really? And these are people having a go

at pensioners or people volunteering. you know they're spending their own time

they're taking their own time to walk into that shop to have a go at a lovely old lady

who's selling shortbread and t-shirts and jigsaws Does she understand what's happening

I'm not sure I want her to but it might be better than being completely baffled

by this behaviour Do you know what? I pop into the shop all the time

just to speak to the people in there, just to say hello and see how they're getting on

and some of them Some of them are quite forthright and tell the people where to go

But they don't understand. They understand why people are idiots

But, you know, why would you? The fire brigade doesn't sort of like, you know..

Oh, it would. Well, I mean, it would. If a fire engine turned up at a repurposed hotel

then there would be people... I mean, there's people attacking police cars at the Farage riots

so people would attack a fire engine without a second thought if they thought it was saving the lives of refugees, mate

They just would. It's a tragedy to say it out loud, but I don't even have one scintilla of doubt about that

It is, but there is so much more good in the community

In our station alone, in our shop, I popped down here the other day, we had a few boxes of biscuits, a couple of nice cards from people

just saying, you know, we see you're going through a hard time in the moment, we really appreciate what you do

It really is heartwarming. So the donations are great, but to actually put a metaphorical arm around people is even greater sometimes, isn't it

To actually pop in and say thank you. 100%. And we launched on exercise last Sunday morning, and there was quite a busy crowd going on because there was a festival in my town

And the round of applause we got on the way out and on the way back as well, the whole crew were deeply touched

I'm so glad to hear that. I'm quite emotionally touched by it, which goes, you know

well, thank you to the majority of the public that are, you know, that are behind us

And the problem is that, you know, I mean, we wouldn't need masks to do it

but it's beyond our ken, really, to organise a show of support for the RNLI

because we support the, of course everybody supports the RNLI, except the characters that are putting on balaclavas

and shouting abuse at old ladies in your shop. I mean, I don't know what the pushback should look like

except what you describe. Pop into the shop, make a donation. If you find yourself witnessing an exercise

or you see them on a float at your town carnival, that's not really going to happen now at this time of year

then clap that little bit louder. But I mean you know don you how much we love you You and your colleagues know in your bones You know what we do We all do and it like anything like anything from any stretch of society and stuff like that

You get that vocal fuse against something or other. I'm not so sure anymore

It's not a few. Facebook's full of it. Newspapers are full of it

UK media is full of it. They've set up television stations to promote these people

You know, there's a few things I will say about this. and sorry if I've got the time to, I have noticed on Twitter or X or whatever we want to call it these days

there's been a lot of support from Labour MPs, from Lib Dem MPs, supporting the RNLI

Noticely absent from other parties, apart from Penny Mordent, but she's got quite a maritime background and stuff

so I appreciate that. But yeah, relative violence from sort of, you know

other political parties in that respect. But fear of the mob, mate. Fear of the mob

At best, fear of the mob. Yeah, go on. Yeah, I think the media have got a bit of a pipe to play here

and I've actually contacted our own press office ourselves because quite often, for instance, on the BBC or ITV

when they talk about a small boats crossing or people rescued from a small boat

they'll often put a picture of an R&I boat on there, and the R&I weren't involved at all

And that just propagates. and our media team have actually spoken to these news outlets

and said, look, would you mind not putting our votes on if we've not been involved

Yeah, of course it is, because you can only really cling to the truth at times like this

But that almost accommodates the negativity that it's attached to the rescue of certain people

Well, it just propagates it, doesn't it? Yeah, I guess so. And people need to validate their anger

And obviously, it's always everyone else's fault apart from themselves. and yeah, they've got a point to this, haven't they

And unfortunately it's our turn at the moment. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, that is a very sanguine and philosophical approach to it

and I'm a more emotional man than you are which is probably why you can do that job

and I'm not sure I could. Well, I'm pretty sure I couldn't. And I can't be as sanguine and as philosophical as you are

and please may the spotlight of hatred and abuse move on soon

You know, I know a little bit about the spotlight of hatred and abuse

so I can actually talk about that with some qualifications, but goodness me, goodness me, the idea that just having your turn

in the spotlight before it, that's just so wrong. It's so wrong

I don't think anyone should ever be in that particular spotlight, but RNLI volunteers

Still not got a question, John. How has this happened? Is there any way back

Do you know someone involved in this? Is your mum been radicalised, because let's use the language of terrorism

has your mum been radicalised to hate lifeboat volunteers? Is your mum part of this

Not slashing the tyres or attacking the volunteers, but on the old Facebook, giving it large

about the taxi service that Nigel's warned her about. She might be, you know, how the fudge do you cope with that

Geoff's in Watford. Geoff, what would you like to say? Hey, good morning, James. Good morning, Britain

Let's not get carried on. We're doing okay, but they're not all listening. Carry on

Yeah, bear with me. Sorry. It's quite rightly a bit emotional this morning. I'm not a

RNLI volunteer, although my family's supported them for generations, grandparents going back

I'm a Christian and I'm also a volunteer out in the refugee camps

in Calais and Dunkirk. And this morning, I just wanted to call up

very rare I do, but I just wanted to say that it's an easy target

and cowardly for the Balaclava Brigade to target the volunteers who put their lives on the line

for just a very small percentage. It's something like 1.2%, I think, of RNLA shout-outs

that actually were involved with rescuing migrants from the channel. And actually, you know

it's obviously a bigger target and maybe not as lucrative for the crowdfunders

But actually, it's the Home Office border force who are, you know

at great expense to the taxpayer, bringing in something like 98% of rescued refugees from the channel

something like 36 million quid, I think I read, to bring people ashore

And like one of your previous callers had mentioned, it's absolutely right

that people are checked. You know, what do you want? What's the alternative

Well, exactly, people, when they do die, tragically, people do lose their lives all the time

in the disembarkation, or embarkation, rather. And you need some kind of system

I mean, it's not working, I don't agree with it. But, you know, you have to rescue people

And the selfless volunteers of the RNLI who put themselves on the line

not just for refugees, but for communities of mariners and holidaymakers... For everybody, for everybody

For absolutely everybody and anybody. And I think it's a real, you know, it's an easy target and cowardly to be targeting selfless volunteers

when actually it's a very small percentage. And it's all on public donations

You know, there's no taxpayer money. And it's a, you know, sorry, it's emotional

Well, the thing you've reminded me of, and I haven't actually mentioned yet

although I think I've alluded to it, is that if you break that bond of universality

If you tinker with the idea that this is for everybody and anybody, then it doesn't stop with the people you've excluded

It always grows into, well, let's exclude them as well. And most of the people we've spoken to, if not all, I'm going to say all, they wouldn't want to volunteer for a service that only saved some lives based upon a political decision

That's fascism. Indeed, yeah. I mean, treat people like brothers and sisters

treat people like you yourself would like to be treated. And it's such a divisive..

Yeah, and I mean, you're probably a bit more reluctant than I am

to question people's professions of faith, but anyone claiming to be a Christian who is unaware of that golden rule

about treating others as you would seek to be treated yourself is at the very least a hypocrite and at worst a liar

It's performance, I fear. It's performance. It definitely is. Who do they think Jesus was

If Jesus had ever visited this country to flee Roman persecution, how do you think he would have got here

Half past eleven is the time. Lottie Morley has your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC

I'm stuck a bit on that question I shouldn't have asked you at the top of the show

What are you going to do with your spare time this weekend? Because it's highly unlikely that you're going to be risking your life

to save complete strangers from the sea. Maybe you're going to be putting on a balaclava helmet

and going to terrorise people who you claim to be protecting or somehow representing, despite the fact that they neither want nor welcome you in

their communities. It's a mad one, isn't it? What do you do? On another day, if stroke

when things have calmed down and the threat of fascism has receded which is far from guaranteed far from guaranteed in this country at this time We look a little bit at the psychology of courage why some people are drawn to things

like the RNLI, you know. I sit in those museums or I visit those stations and I feel awed

I've never really thought, I wonder how I can get involved. There's one near me, would you believe

I think it's moved slightly, but the River Thames, of course, has an RNLI need

And the station's in West London, where I am. And they will also be pulling people out of the river

I guess, as that brilliant program, Saving Lives at Sea, has reminded us that the terrible poetry of the sea is much more powerful than a river

But water's water and drowning's drowning. And we have a significant swathe of our political system

a party that has this year been leading in the polls, dominating a discourse that wants people to be left to die

that wants volunteers to leave people to die. Which is, again, you know, an hour and a half into this conversation

and my anger abates, but my horror doesn't. say the words out loud

and I can't believe that it's my country and that people that I might once have worked with

are part of the process of allowing this to happen, part of the poisoning of an entire country

an entire population. And if you think I'm exaggerating, go and have a look on Facebook

They don't even hide their names or their faces. Some of them have even got their job descriptions

in their profiles. And that's why it happens at the lifeboat stations

So it might sound silly, but because there has been an abject failure to regulate social media

Facebook never really did, but it's got much worse since Trump came into power

because they don't need to anymore. They don't need to pay lip service to the idea of regulation

On Twitter, back in the day, it was quite common for accounts to be shut down

for being viciously racist, for inciting violence and hatred. and then Elon Musk bought it

and literally brought back overnight a ton of accounts that had been closed

for that behaviour. So you just normalise it online and you don't get to be surprised or clutch your pearls

when it becomes increasingly normalised offline. It's a thing that I've been tracking for you

and with you over the last couple of years is the migration of this vitriol

and poison and these lies from online to offline. So the flags, most obviously, and now the violence

And because it appears to be endorsed by the way these algorithms are engineered

and by the way these sites are unregulated, these people are empowered and emboldened

You know, most people do not waste their lives on Facebook challenging racists

They're out there leading their lives. You know, fair play to the people that do

that can find the time and the energy to do it. But it goes almost, you talk about echo chambers

they end up thinking everybody agrees with them. So let's go and attack a lifeboat volunteer

or let's go and attack a lifeboat station. Everybody agrees with them. There's still some doubt there, because they wear masks

There's still a capacity for shame. And then they talk nonsense about being worried about being doxxed

or having their identities revealed. Well, if you're doing nothing wrong, why would having your identities revealed be a problem, lads

Riddle me this. But it's the normalisation online. Musk knows what he's doing

He's not, by any stretch of the imagination, the genius he wants people to believe that he is

Just watch Alex Gibney's new film. But he knows what he's doing. He normalises it online

and then a white supremacist programme becomes somehow more palatable or more normal offline

Even in Piddington, the parish councillor was calling for Elon Musk's support

Again, what these people think Christianity is, if it somehow accommodates white supremacism and fascism, is beyond me

But lots of things are beyond me at the moment, except the fundamental decency, even, I would say, the beauty

of fellow human beings risking their lives for no reward. And goodness knows I'm in awe enough of the ones that do it for a reward

But the ones that do it for no reward are the very, very best of us

And they're being attacked by people who call themselves patriots and who claim to be Christians

And the anger and the outrage, the disgust, the horror and the outright rejection of this is either non-existent or far too small

And how can Nigel Farage condemn attacks on RNLI's personnel when he is responsible for maligning, demonising and othering them

Because remember, it never stops with the first target. It never stops with the immigrants

Now they're attacking lifeboat men and women. Craig's in Rochester. Craig, what would you like to say

Good morning. Just sort of, it's absolutely disgusting. and my daughter is a crew member for the R&LI in the North

And, you know, she trained hard. She did it at her own expense

And, you know, to be on the receiving end, she hasn't personally yet

but, you know, for these guys who go out and risk their life and limb on the open waves to, you know, to save anyone in distress

James had a brief conversation with my daughter before I came on, and I said to her, you know, what's your thoughts on it

she said dad she said i don't care whether they're white brown pink green or yellow she said it

doesn't matter if they're in that water we are saving them and you know and how can that be

controversial how can that be controversial do you know what i mean like it's just disgusting and

and the fact that our very own people like you know listen i understand i understand the politics

at the moment i you know listen you know we you know we we are sort of we are in a pinnacle point

of what we know which which way is the right way to deal with the situation with the migrants

problem and everything like that. But, you know, to turn around and attack our own..

Well, that's the mark of a nation. That's what a country is, isn't it

It's where the parameters are. It's where the guardrails are. And, yes, there will be disagreements

on a single boat, Craig, about the migrant situation. Some people choose to call it a crisis

Some people insist on pointing out that statistically it's nothing of the sort

They will disagree with each other passionately about this issue, but they will never disagree about that thing your daughter beautifully encapsulated as the right of every single human in the water to be pulled out by her and her colleagues

James, she said it exactly right herself. And, you know, my daughter, obviously I can't say too much with regards to her job, but she works within social services

And she's been recently been dealing with migrant children. And, you know, she's come home in tears

You know the fact that you know some of the stories you know the back stories of these people not just the stories but like you know where do they go What do they do How do they do it You know we see forever endeavor on the news men coming in men coming in men coming in

But what you're not seeing is the children behind these men that are on them boats

that are, you know, that are on the same sort of, you know, the same kind of places

You know, what's happening to them? And, you know, at the end of the day, listen, like, again, I understand

but her opinion is, is, listen, you know, again, dad, whether white, brown, pink, green or purple

we're saving these kids. Well, I mean, this is the thing that's missing, really

And it hasn't been missing from our conversations today. But she is articulating the opposite

of what these people must believe. Some of them, I suspect, and I don't say this casually

some of them might be too stupid to understand what it is that they're representing. But they're representing the belief

that these people should be left to die. And even if they qualify that by saying

well, not, you know, only to start with, because once they start being left to die, then the others will stop trying to cross

but that is to utterly, utterly fail to understand the motivation of people like your daughter

We will save everyone we can and anyone we don't save will haunt us

Yeah, but you said yourself, if you look at the world today

these people go out and your last few callers have hit the nail on the head

They're volunteers. They're not funded by us, the taxpayer. They're not funded by anyone. They take their own time

My daughter carries a pager. You know, she's at the drop of a hat out in a car straight over to the station

and on that ship or on shore crew, depending on where she is

And do you know what? She does that out of her own. She's 26. Do you know what I'm saying

She should be out, you know. I mean, not saying she should be out, but, you know, she's living out

There's a lot of other things she could be doing. Well, you know as well as I do

You know what I mean? But she decided to take her own time, her own money as well, to train

You know, she's been on boat training, on marine training. Where did it come from, Craig, as her dad

You know what? I have got no idea. Really? I have got no idea. You know, she's a very independent, strong-minded young woman

And you know what? I've never stopped her doing anything she wanted to do. I'd like to see you try, Craig

Definitely. But I just want to start her round it off, James, by saying this. I think these people are no different to, you know, as what we brand as terrorists around the world

I think that, you know, I think it's home terrorism. And I think that if you're targeting volunteers who, like I said, could one day, could one day be saving them or their children or their family members

just sort of bear that one in mind when you're thinking about attacking a station or attacking one of them

Because at the end of the day, they are someone's daughter. they are someone's mum, dad or auntie or uncle or family member

and at the end of the day would they like that to happen then? You've done your daughter proud and she of course does us all proud

by dedicating her life to looking after people who in many cases

especially in her volunteer work with the RNLI and some of the professional work that she does with children

can't look after themselves. You must be very proud Craig. James I am very proud and like I said

I have my political views which is obviously for another conversation. conversation for another day. But you know what, that girl, you know, that girl risks her life

every night, every day, every weekend. You know, I think you asked the question, what are you going

to be doing this weekend? Well, she's going to be watching a pager, you know what I mean? And it's

like, you know, waiting for that call to come out to say that, you know, we're going to go out and

save that life. 26 years old, and she's already done more good than many of us will do in an entire

lifetime. That's magical. And that's the opposite of these men in the masks, isn't it? The polar

opposite, the human opposite. And you're right. I'm glad you've made the point about the politics

because it's the thing that we lost. I don't know when we lost it

but the thing that we lost was an agreement on the rules that we play by. Even if we are furiously opposed to each other

even if we're sworn enemies, even if it's a derby match, we all agree

that we respect the referee's whistle and we're all playing by the same rules. And then

you know, Trump, Brexit, whatever it is you prefer, came along and blew up the rule book and

pretended it never applied and continue to behave as if there are no rules whether it's the rules governing donations whether it's

the rules governing secret gifts whether it's the rules governing uh investments you know whatever

it is or the rules governing what you can and can't say in polite society about other citizens

let alone refugees those rules have all gone that's the problem and one of the rules that

we can bring back quite easily and andy burnham should be doing more today to do so is the rule

that you don't attack in any way, shape, or form are an ally volunteers

And if you do, you are the very worst of us. But we're not doing that

Andy Burnham could lead the push back, but it would, of course, involve making enemies of

I don't know, maybe some of the journalists that he's still keen to keep on. I don't even know, actually

Sorry. I mean, why is Andy Burnham not coming out much more strongly on this issue

Because to me, they don't really come any bigger than this. It's 11.46. God bless you, Craig, and God bless your daughter

James O'Brien on LBC. It is 11.49 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC

I hoped this would happen and I hope you agree that it has. We've actually reminded ourselves of the good people

by beginning a conversation focusing on the awfulness of the bad people

It's very simple. I don't normally like binary, but sometimes there is no other language to speak

You are either with those who have the courage to risk their lives to save you and anybody else

or you are with the people that cover their faces and attack those volunteers

It's really that straightforward. I don't care how exercised or brainwashed you are by anti-migrant rhetoric

you never ever want them to drown to death because the volunteers that would save them and you from peril

have been terrorised into inactivity. That's simple. You just don't need to go there

You could disagree with people like me about every aspect of this debate up to the point where you say

I hope they die. I want them to die. That's it really

And that was the point that the last caller made. I thought so perfectly

So perfectly. And you can do it yourself. I mean, you're probably wasting your time

but there'll be clips of this that you can stick up on social media when you see people celebrating it

or not perhaps realising what they're doing, what they're flirting with, which is murderous hate

Murderous hate. Lethal hatred. Based on what? Carefully cultivated fear. The rhetoric of Nigel Farage

What? the very very profitable quotes activism end quotes of the usual suspects

that's it it is this one's binary this one's binary you're with them

or you're against them and I'm slightly worried to reflect on how many might be with them

I'd be a lot more worried I think if I was still on Twitter if I was still exposed

to the worst excesses of social media and that's why I remain slightly obsessed by

the migration from the online awfulness to the offline awfulness to the real world awfulness and I've tried

to warn you but you know even previously respected Respectable media outlets would respond to self-appointed former hooligans

hanging flags outside a house that didn't want a flag outside it

by anyone who criticised it was somehow unpatriotic. And now we're at the point where the patriots, who you defended then

are attacking the most patriotic people in the land. The people who reflect both our island nation status

and our basic decency and our historic Christianity. actually, I will use that word, even though

it's not entirely relevant. Do unto others, as you would have done unto yourself

Steve's in Portsmouth. Steve, what would you like to say? Yeah, absolutely furious about what's happened

in my city. Your town, mate. Your city, I beg your pardon. Absolutely. It's a maritime city. It's disgusting

Absolutely disgusting. But, it's not as simple as you think it is, James

It's not just about the patriots against the RNLI. There is in this city a massive racist movement within the city

I'll tell you why I know that. My mechanic was fixed in my car the other day

and he's saying, oh, the RNLI shouldn't be picking up migrants, they're there to save people, right

So migrants aren't people. Migrants aren't people then under that logic. I know

The window cleaner, he went down there. He's not a patriot. Lots of other people went down there

this city is absolutely riddled with racism by the way Tomo comes from Hale and Ackler

which is only a spit away from here as well what I'm trying to say is

that it is wider and it's spreading I've seen it spread and spread

over the last I don't know what, year, year or two three years and it's absolutely

escalated in this city now and I mean it's always there the only point is

it's looking for breaches isn't it It's looking for sort of push points where it can just seep through and then spread

And you can't separate your window cleaner or your mechanic have been persuaded into a position that they may not have held 10 years ago

You know, you could see it in the run-up to Brexit, actually, the way that immigration appeared on the front pages every day for a year

And lo and behold, the public's concern about immigration rocketed from a place where it hadn't been before

even though the numbers themselves hadn't actually changed. So, I mean, is it naive to want to know the difference

Some of them are in it for the money. Some of them are in it because they're racists and hate everyone, really

And once they've dealt with all the foreigners, they'll turn on to the women and the homosexuals

and whatever it is that's next. History's taught us that lesson. And the ones that are victims of manipulation

or is that a naive distinction, Steve? Well, I think in this city there has been a sort of racist undercurrent

for years. Like many cities, there has been a very large increase in the migrant population

You know, when I first moved here 30 years ago, everyone was white, right? And they were in the Navy

or they were in the last of the docks. And people unfortunately are not

seeing these as part of our nation. They're not seeing them as people

It's just disgusting. And to attack the RNLI who I've supported for years, it's just

absolutely the pits. Yeah, it is the absolute. I think 660 asylum seekers in Portsmouth at the moment

which it works out at about 30 per 10,000 residents. Yeah. But I suppose..

But they don't mean the asylum seekers. That's the thing that you're touching on. They mean the fellas in the takeaways

Absolutely, Indian restaurant. Yeah, it's just... It has increased the last couple of years

Well, it's not actually a surprise. I mean, it's heartbreaking and it's grim, but it's not a surprise when you look at the amount of effort

that is put into it, into actually creating it, including by people who are handsomely rewarded for doing so

Well, Steve, I feel your pain, actually. I don't know what the word is for the urban equivalent of patriotism

but the world is seeing Portsmouth as a place where scumbags shut down lifeboat stations

isn't it? The cities don't really like that at all they're really good people

I'm sure, and there should be a respect for the maritime, I thought Ash

I don't know if you were listening earlier, Ash in Northampton beautifully, beautifully

articulated why the more maritime a population is the more love and respect

and gratitude it should have for the RNLI and just as you don't get countries

more maritime than ours, you do not get cities more maritime than Steve's

and yet that's where it's happened because these people, remember, while fundraising for themselves throughout

are encouraging the weak-willed and the hard of thinking to put on masks

and head out to terrorise communities that neither want nor welcome them

in order to pursue a point that ends with calls for human beings to be left to drown in the sea

while when that doesn't happen, the people charged with rescuing them, albeit that the statistics are small

the people principally and morally charged, the people who have charged themselves with rescuing them

become targets for abuse and terrorism. And there's no mystery, is there

As we near the end of this conversation, we move on to something completely different in the final hour of the show

There's no mystery whatsoever about how this has happened. Spare me. Spare me the comment articles

Examining how this is It's happened because the people you championed Daily Mail editor

Richard Littlejohn This is happening because the people you championed I think Littlejohn compared Farage

To a Spitfire pilot once It's happening because the people you champion

Want it to And that means you want it to too You don't get to separate yourself from that process

You turn people like Farage into heroes claim that they speak for anyone except those who would judge you by your skin colour

rather than the contents of your character. I mean, there's a man who wouldn't want to be judged according to the contents of your character

This is where it leads. And that, I'm afraid, is not an opinion

That's counting. Last word on this to Tanway, who's in Covent Garden

Tanway, what would you like to say? Hello, James. First time caller. How are you

Welcome. It's all good. What's on your mind? Yeah, so James, been listening to this very interesting debate

I think, first of all... It's not really, to be a hair splitter

it's not really been a debate. These cowards haven't got the guts to ring me, let alone to show their own faces in public, mate

But it's been quite an uplifting conversation, oddly. Conversation, interesting topic. But it's not interesting

I know what you're saying. But I would say, you know, you started off the show by apologising

You have nothing to apologise for. In fact, you know, I'm glad you brought up the subject

and you've talked about with your callers, you know, Barajan Musk and the invasion, you know, and they talk about, you know, fighting

age men coming over. All of that. How's it affecting you? Tell me about it

Yeah so how is it affecting me is I recently started an online marketplace I won give you the name but basically we kind of looking at it from a social enterprise model So very similar to other online marketplaces and you know who

these are. We're peer-to-peer where people come on to sell stuff. But unlike other places, our model

is a social enterprise. So basically after we cover our cost, the profits that are left will

go to noble causes or charities, for example. So there's no shareholder, if you like

It's a social enterprise model rather than a commercial model. And we launched it two and a half weeks ago on the 1st of September

But before that, in the run-up to that, obviously, we were doing a bit of marketing and so on

and so forth. And when we posted some stuff on Facebook, we were literally bombarded James with messages

of hate. Because of the charities that you were hoping to help, because of the identity, or just

because you were doing charitable? Well, that's where it sort of became a bit interesting

because there is nothing in our name to suggest that we're involved with any..

Specific charities. Exactly. Well, a specific community, if you like. Okay, yeah

The first charity we partnered with is a charity that delivers excess books

You know, for example, if the library's going to throw some books out, they just take them

and then they send them to a country in Africa because those people don't have books

You know, that's a noble thing to do. Of course. Yeah, and we're looking to partner with other charities

So why did they, where did the hate come from? I'm short of time, Tam. I mean, I read you one of the DMs that came in

It said that hopefully you will not be supporting charities like the RNLI who are complicit

in the invasion of our country by fighting eight Muslim rapists. And there it is. There it is

And that is something that, of course, has been lifted almost verbatim

from online discourse and from the mouths of politicians who actually do know better

It's interesting. It's not necessarily naive, says Fred, to distinguish between the mark and the con man

But the problem with far-right cults is that their recruits have a habit of becoming recruiters

So some of these people are mugs and marks, of victims and dupes

and some of them are conmen and grifters and liars and leaders

And I think we're probably getting pretty close to the point where the difference doesn't matter anymore

Because the person who sent that message is almost certainly in the first category

but they are echoing so completely, the people in the first category

that who would know the difference? Who would know the difference between the conmen and the conned

James O'Brien on LBC It is five minutes after 12 you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC

we have to cram a whole show, a normal show into the remaining hour because that was a bit of a diversion

I wasn't even sure I was going to talk about it when I came on here at 10 o'clock

I'm very glad we did and thank you to everybody who contributed to an urgent and important conversation

that only we seem to think is urgent and important namely absolute

just the very very worst of us attacking the very, very best of us

as a direct consequence of the racist discourse that is now dominating this country

So we'll talk about something... I was going to say trivial. It is trivial. Is it trivial

Is that the phone-in? Is it trivial? Can't really do a phone-in on is it trivial

That's just a slightly more verbose version of do you care? Do you care

I don't do phone-ins about do you care? Do you care? I don't... Do I care

Oh, I should never have asked myself that question because if I don't care, then I won't be able to set the conversation up

and go, I do care. Why do I care? Is it trivial

Is it trivial? I think that might be the question. What's the subject

Can you guess? You can't guess, can't you? It's the biggest story in town

for people who aren't bothered about lifeboat stations being shut down. It's a bit of local difficulty

a domestic dispute between the king and his former brother-in-law, Charles Spencer

who, and listen, I don't know, I'm sure other people have pointed this out. He's now on his third divorce, this man

And he's not got a... How can I put this nicely? I'm not aware of much on his CV

that would speak to a great ability to make money via traditional means

I think he was a journalist for a while. He's written some history books that are not bad at all, actually

But if you're running a stately home, and here I go again, veering into territory

I don't know a great deal about, but I probably know a little bit more than you'd imagine

given my leftist credentials. If you run a stately home, it's bloody expensive, right

And you do not, there are very few jobs in the world that would enable you to sustain and run a stately home

without simultaneously making a ton of money. So some of them are really good at it

because they're kind of lucky as well. If your massive stately home is right next to a beautiful beach

then you're way ahead of the pack, because you can get the gardens open

you can charge, you also own half of the county, so you can charge for parking

if people want to go to visit the seaside. You do the cream teas, you rent out the bicycles

Do you see what I mean? And maybe you build a maze, you're tempting people there

If it's in an area that people are migrating to anyway, then you're ahead of the people

who are literally trying to be the draw. So if you've got a stately home

then you are raised in a way that means you absolutely have to hold on to it

And it's your only job. You are, they call themselves, a caretaker for the next generation

Regular listeners to this programme will now expect me to talk about trees

Why? Because there are two types of people in this world. There are people who plant trees on their own property

and there are people who don't. And the people who plant trees on their own..

Look, this is a slight exaggeration. and I've planted a beech tree in my garden, but if you are planting trees

that are not going to come to fruition for 150 years, you are probably living in a stately home

that you expect to hand on to your children, to your successors

The reason being that that is the view that is being designed 150 years previously

Go to a stately home, have a look out the window, and tell me that's an accident

Because it isn't. Why do you think Capability Brown was such? Capability Brown used to dig up rivers

Not personally. He'd deploy people like you and me to do that. But you are literally planting trees so that your successors, your heirs

will be able to enjoy a view 150 years from now. So it is absolutely baked into the English aristocracy

that all you have to do is look after it until you pass it on to the next bloke

It's probably the most fundamental difference in a two-tier society is people who are dedicated to passing on inheritance

and people who are dedicated to keeping their own heads above water

That's the split, right? We talk a lot about class in this country

It nothing to do with working class or middle class or even upper class It all to do with inherited wealth The job of the Duke the job of the Earl the job of the King is just to look after all the goodies and make sure that they go to his family

and not somebody else's. Which is actually, well, I mean, engaging in a history lesson stroke

Ted Talk, that is how an awful lot of wars happened as well. So this fellow, Spencer

is on his third divorce. That's expensive. That's really expensive. And just because he lives in a massive stately home

doesn't actually mean, as I hope I've now illustrated to you, that he's got money coming out of his ears

He has to make money, has to make more money as a consequence of three divorce settlements

It is three, isn't it? I think it's three. It's definitely at least two

than he would have to do otherwise. And that is why many, many years after his sister's death

he has decided to publish a book which resurrects an awful lot of the unhappiness

and vitriol of that period. That's my theory. I'm fairly confident that if this fellow

hadn't got three divorces to fund, he would not have written this book for coins

And that's why he's written this book for coins, because if it was a point of principle or it was a point of respecting his sister's record

or setting that record straight, than he would have done it years ago. Now, that's a slightly unfair conclusion to arrive at, perhaps

I don't have the proof of it, but it's authentic. It's genuine

That's what I believe. That doesn't necessarily mean he shouldn't be doing what he's doing

But what he's doing is deeply, well, potentially deeply damaging to the king

Earl Spencer claims that the king was giddily elated like a lottery winner in a phone call immediately after her death

And if the book he has written did not contain claims like that, then the Daily Mail would

not have paid whatever the Daily Mail has paid for the rights to serialise this book

It's a full-time job on newspapers, or it used to be. Things ain't what they used to be in that world, of course

But it used to be that it would be a full-time job

I used to know the fellas that did it. I quite envied them, actually, but if they made a mistake

it was flipping Armageddon. They would read the books long before release

and then they would advise on the bidding. So, I don't know who competes with the mail anymore

but back in the day, even the lowly old Daily Express that I was on would be in the race for a book

and you'd read it. Sometimes they'd even do spoilers, because you'd read the book

and you are filleting it for juice. You're filleting the book for juice

and the bid that you make for the book is determined by the amount of juice

that you found in the text. So without lines like the king was giddily elated like a lottery winner

then the Daily Mail would not have paid whatever it has paid for this book

and the Earl would not have made anything like as much money as he has made. That's just the serialisation

I don't know whether the salacious stuff sells more copies or whether the interest in Diana

Princess of Wales, remains so high that it would have sold the same number of copies

even without the brouhaha, the hoo-ha. So, the other line, of course

that constitutes another zero on the fee being paid for the serialisation rights

is the line issued yesterday that Prince Charles Azuden was reportedly said to Earl Spencer

as he still is, rest assured, we'll forget her soon enough. So those are the two lines. I think the two phrases that you need to bear in mind with reference to our current king are giddily elated and will forget her soon enough

And I want you to tell me whether or not you think this is seemly. That's all

I don't think there's much point having a conversation about who you believe, because I might as well ask you who's going to win the ten past four at Haydott

Who the hell knows? But even if he's telling the truth, I would argue, this is profoundly unseemly

This is really ugly behavior. This is washing dirty laundry in public

I could easily be wrong. And I might be slightly motivated by the fact that the king is not well, as we know

But, um, I just want your view on this, on whether or not you, like me

feel that this is all a little bit seedy and unseemly, and that, if as seems likely, Spencer

who, of course, has said that he wants the book and he has written the book to correct some untruths

after his sister's death, but what untruths is he correcting here, really

except utterly unprovable claims that King Charles is an absolute cad. which I don't think is true actually

but I'm not doing that phoning I'm doing this one what do you think of his behaviour

what do you think of his conduct? and here's the question I want you to zone in on if you would does he honour his sister's memory

by making these claims about her children's father? God that's completely biased isn't it

that's almost like the kind of polling that reform gets foreign people to pay for and then pretend is completely independent

see how it works? How on earth does a pollster deliver the result that you wanted

because you've actually secretly paid for it or persuaded someone to pay for it

Okay, let me rephrase. Does he honour her memory by insulting her children's father

But the same question, you see, but without the emotional heft, would simply be, does he honour her memory

by making these claims? So tell me honestly, get your needle out, watch it now

Does he honour her memory? Does he honour or malign her memory by launching baseless attacks on her own children's father

Now, your answer to that question is going to... This is how it works

This is why that story about the polling that Farage was cackling about in the pub while guzzling oysters is such a big deal

Although, again, I don't know whether anyone else has bothered to point this out. It matters how you phrase the question

Has Earl Spencer danced on his late sister's grave by launching baseless attacks upon the

father of his of her defenceless children Right, you get the picture, so I've got to park it

How can I phrase this I'm sounding like an unhinged headline, aren't I

I've got an unhinged headline for you It turns out Dominic Lawson has moved from the Mail to the Telegraph

which I think is a demotion but nonetheless he's risen to the challenge of writing to the Telegraph

by filing some copy that fits perfectly into the unhinged headline paradigm

I'll share that with you shortly. Question that is not biased. Has he honoured his sister's memory by doing this or not

0345 6060973, okay? Has he honoured his sister's memory by doing it

Because you and I don't know whether he's telling the truth or not, okay

and we probably never will unless the only way in which we can know that he telling the truth is if the palace were to actually agree in which case both sides would be in agreement or Earl Spencer produces a tape

And the era was not an era when everything was recorded by any stretch of the imagination

So, the response from the palace is, there's some beautiful historical context if you actually care about these things

and I kind of do, I've got to be honest with you. but times when the palace have broken the sort of never explained never apologize rule include

the um uh not just the palace but members of the royal family the divorce actually i don't know if

you remember this but the um late princess of wales did not respond to a queen's request the

queen the late queen's request that the couple divorce so a palace spokesperson after that

infamous panorama interview in 19 that famous palace nothing infamous about it you see i'm as

bad as anyone at falling into the trap set by the mainstream media, as we laughably call it

The famous Panorama interview. She didn't respond to the Queen's request that the couple divorce

so the palace issued a terse statement that simply said, after considering the present situation

the Queen wrote to both the Prince and Princess earlier this week and gave them her view that an early divorce is desirable. That's extraordinary. Easily forgotten, easily overlooked

but that is essentially the Queen running out of patience with her daughter-in-law and possibly

also her son and simply saying publicly you've got to get divorced now this cannot keep dragging on

so the idea that they never break cover or they never explain or apologize that's simply not true

they just do it very rarely they just do it very very rarely and that is an indication of the

palace's strength of feeling on this so the king is not well and the uh fractures caused by the

passing of his late wife have healed, but they were deep. Many thought that they would threaten

the existence or the fabric of the very monarchy. So they have responded by saying that the pain of

fraternal grief can cloud reason, affect judgment and color memory in ways others do not recognize

even many years after such loss, which is an incredibly diplomatic and gentle way of saying

Charles Spencer is lying. This did not happen. And the idea of him being giddy with excitement

at the recent passing of his children's mum does strike me as unlikely. But that's not what we're

talking about. We're having a conversation that does not include a conclusion regarding who's

telling the truth and who isn't. We're having a conversation about dirty laundry being washed in

public. And whether or not, regardless of whether it is true or not, this is an acceptable, this is

an honourable way to behave. And the only way to frame that question, I think, is to ask you whether

you think Charles Spencer is honouring his sister's memory by airing these accusations. That's all

and I can see a yes I don't feel it I'm full on no on this one

I'm also wobbling or not wobbling but I'm also I think a pendulum

I think a really powerful argument could move me to yes he is honouring her memory

and I may be because of my own background in newspapers a million years ago

it may be that I'm coloured by the knowledge of how the serialisation market works

and the fact that you have to serve up things like this in order to get the big bucks

Maybe that's completely unfair and irrelevant and the cost of his myriad divorces

has absolutely nothing to do with his motivation. Again, I don't know. I don't know

But I want to know what you think. Does he honour his memory by airing these accusations

And I'm going to add a couple of caveats, at this time and in this way. Because I think it's pretty gross

I've got to be honest with you, I'm not a massive monarchist. I think that the king has conducted himself

and his office has conducted itself with almost perfect decorum and diplomacy

since he took to the throne. I don't think he's put a foot wrong

up to and including the hideous prospect and spectacle of him having to essentially pay homage

at the court of Donald Trump. And that might be colouring my opinion as well

but I don't like it. I don't think this is nice behaviour

and I don't imagine that... I don't imagine William and Harry are mad keen on it either, actually

because this is processed trauma, at least for Harry. I don't know what William's relationship with therapy is

but Harry's been magnificently and inspirationally open about his. This is processed trauma

and their uncle is now dragging it back up again. I'm sounding very biased, so I'll shut up

03456060973. Do you think he honours his sister's memory or not? James O'Brien on LBC

and maybe there's room for that question that I said I wasn't going to ask

but now I'm thinking that I will is this trivial or not? is this trivial or not

0345 6060 973 is the number that you need David is in Lavanham in Suffolk

David, what do you reckon? Well, I reckon I said this to Tom actually yesterday

Oh, sorry, can't do that no, that's absolutely fine it's not your fault, David

but we can't be taking we don't do repeats on this programme and that's absolutely nothing personal

God bless you and have a lovely weekend. Margaret's in Tiverton. Margaret, what would you like to say

Oh, well, as one who's trying really hard not to care, you know, being a Republican and all that jazz

I just find it's... Do you know the word that's come up with me is vulgar? Yes

My mother's word. It is the money. Why is he being quiet all the time

If he really bothered about his nephews, he wouldn't do this. It just feels so tacky

And it's bringing out all the awful mawkishness. You know, I've tried so hard not to care about this

that I was trying to... I think, you know, you do, don't you? You go, no, no, no, I'm above all this

Try doing my job. Try doing my job. Yeah, yeah. So I'm very starstruck, James, I must just say

It's only me. I know. It is tawdry, tawdry. It's so sad

It's so sad. And it's not honouring anybody's memory to do this now

It's a little bit, to go off on a sidebar, but I get, as a Republican again

here's my caveat, I care about what they do to poor old Meghan

It's just the way the press behaves and it's very tabloid and it's very vulgar

But we know as Republicans that just because you're posh does not mean that you can't be vulgar

You don't relinquish your right to be vulgar and behave badly. No, of course not

I just feel very sad. It's not honouring her memory. To answer your direct question, darling

it is not honouring your sister's memory to drag this up now

and to be so rude about the king who is ill and perhaps won't be with us forever

You know, he won't be with us forever. Well, no one's going to be with us forever. But I hear your point

We don't know. You get my point. I do, darling. It's not nice

Is it? Okay, perfect ysis of that. I completely agree with you

but I am, as I say, completely open to persuasion. Are you? But yeah, I am. I think I am

I mean, otherwise, no point having the conversation. I can imagine myself arriving at a place where I think

oh, no, actually, yes, fair enough, but I'm nowhere near that point yet. And that other thing you said about spending 24 hours

determined not to give a monkey's about it and then failing miserably

So you can answer the second question. Is this trivial? I don't think it can be

because there are intelligent people like you and me caring about it. Sorry, over the mark

Over speaking. But I just think it's... It just leaves a bad taste

All those things my mother would have said to me. It leaves a bad taste

And it's not as if... And here's the thing. Oh, I wonder if this is over-egging the pudding

or is actually the nub of the matter. But the allegations, and as we all know

they've got the juice up front. The big stuff goes first. Yes, that's interesting

Giddily elated. And what was the other thing? We'll forget about her soon enough

These are not constitutional matters. These are actually nasty things. There's nothing here that says we deserve to know that

It's dirty linen. Out comes the dirty linen. It's just not nice

It's not right. And, I mean, I know all the stuff about what's his face

what's he called, who are we talking about, Duke of whatever he is. That's the fella

You know, he went to that nasty school. We know all about that. That came up

And, you know, he's probably damaged in lots of ways. But I'm sorry he's lost any sympathy at the moment because he's a grown-up

Yes, he's got to pay his alimony. That was interesting to find out this morning. I think that must be part of it because it looks a bit cobbled together

You know, it looks a little bit desperate. It's a bit like when people, and Parrish has thought that I should ever engage in this sort of behavior

but people are watching the word count while they write. and they know that they've got to come up with some things

that will make their ears prick up over at Daily Mail HQ. And that's why he's thrown in these two allegations

which are utterly unprovable, but of course might be true. And that's why Margaret and I are of the view

that even if they were true, absolutely nothing is gained from this

I'm going to say a word in his defence. Margaret, thank you, and for your kind words as well

I'll say one word in his defence, is that you don't know, and I've spoken to authors to whom this has happened

for reasons that are completely beyond me. The Daily Mail has never bid to serialise any of my books

despite the fact that they sell a heck of a lot more than a lot of the books that they have paid to serialise

including, I think, Boris Johnson's, but I'd have to double-check that. When people have had their books serialised

they have been surprised by what the newspapers have pulled out and put front and centre

So there is a slim chance, and I think it is slim, that Charles Spencer would have bought the Daily Mail on

yesterday and today and gone, oh my lord, I didn't see that coming

I thought they'd be more interested in the stuff about her possibly having ADHD or something like that

He might have been taken by surprise, but I don't think so. You malign the king

That's your headline. And remember, I'm rubbish at this brand of journalism

I never know a story when I see one. But if you're slagging off the king, I think even I would put my hand up in conference

and say, I think we've got a story here, boss. I've been having a look at Spencer's new biography

I don't think, the Telegraph might throw that hat into the ring, but I don't think we're going to have to break the bank to buy it

because there's no competition. And he really goes after the king. Accuses him of being giddily elated

in the immediate aftermath of Diana's death. And apparently he said, oh, don't you worry

we'll get over her soon enough. We'll all forget her soon enough. So there is a slim chance

that these two nuggets of controversy would have taken him by surprise

but it's pretty slim. is he honouring his sister's memory or to borrow that wonderful word

is he simply being vulgar 0345 6060973 Amelia Cox has your headlines

James O'Brien on LBC It is 33 minutes after 12 you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC

I've completely changed the direction now which I'm afraid I've forgotten about

when I get emotional in the top of the show as I did today And I've just had a lovely message off the friend that I was obliquely alluding to throughout that extraordinary conversation about fascism

British fascists targeting the RNLI. And he's doing great, which is lovely to know

Albeit that there is a slight fear, as he puts it himself, as he makes his way through his hometown where he is a volunteer with the RNLI

He's got that Mitchell and Webb sketch in the back of it

Are we the baddies? No, mate. you are categorically not the baddies and you bloody know it, all right? You're the goodies

You're the goodies. You will always be the goodies. And I'm proud to call you a friend

And now to the man who bears at least some responsibility for the fascism currently

being directed at the RNLI. I speak, of course, of Nigel Farage and my friend John Sweeney

who has elected to write a book about the fella, to which my first response was, why? I mean

there's already been plenty and don't we know everything um that that that he's done since his

school days to enforce the idea well that's why the first question you'll hear me ask john sweeney

is this which is john sweeney why do we need another book about nigel farage um good question

i felt that there wasn't a book on the market that gave the true character of them and what i did on

Listen, I've written the words. I don't do AI. I actually type this stuff out with two fingers

I've written 17 books with two fingers. It's tragic. It'll never catch on. But really, the people who have powered the book

are people who really know him very, very well. And the picture they paint would shock people who vote reform

I've become a bit friendly, or at least on good terms, with some people on the right and the far right

that I really wouldn't, I don't agree with at all politically, Rupert Lowe. Yeah

And so Rupert Lowe says he's the Messiah. And the moment he fell out with Farage, or Farage fell out with him, he was elected as

a Reform UK MP, a fallout, and then Rupert Lowe tells the newspaper he's the Messiah

The next day he's suspended by Zia Yusuf, and the claim is that he had been bullying

his parliamentary staff and every single member of rupert lowe's parliamentary staff um wrote a

letter saying no not true annabelle sanderson his former lover what's it what's he like it was like

living in a cult you know she said when you fell out with scientology remember that i said yeah i

so that was what it was like and and she said he was cruel to her the hamiltons neil and christian

Hamilton, and they're my old frenemies from Tatton days. And they are invited to join UKIP, he passes them, they join UKIP, and Hamilton's a good talker

He very fluent again I don align with his politics one little bit but quite quickly there a problem and things start going wrong

Hamilton gets a standing ovation at a UKIP conference and it's televised

His mum's watching and Hamilton's mum goes, You watch that, Nigel Farage. The moment you got that standing ovation, he looked at you like Stalin

Really? And Neil Hamilton says, I should have trusted my mother's intuition

We should all trust our mother's intuition. And at the end of it, she, Neil Hamilton, what's he like

Neil Hamilton said, Nigel Farage wants to be the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral

So you're thinking that the testimony of people who are close to him or have been close to him will be more powerful

a more powerful correct than the evidence-based testimony of people who've always been relatively repelled by him

Yes. So these are the people who know him best. This is one, Godfrey Bloom

He's the guy who said Britain should never give foreign aid to Bongo Bongo lads

He's Nigel Farage's flatmate in Brussels. When they're both UKIP MEPs, they share a flat together

when Farage's ghosted autobiography comes out, he gets hold of a copy and dedicates it to Godfrey

to my best friend in UKIP. Godfrey introduces Laura Ferrari, Farage's love of his life, to him

What do you think to him now? I am not in a giving vein today

Godfrey Bloom, his ex-best friend, compares Nigel Farage to the monster who had the little princess murdered in the tower

And consistently, these witnesses say that Farage hates working-class people. Annabelle Sanderson says, you know

to the working-class voters in Clackton or whatever, they think Nigel Farage is their messiah

Well, honestly, she says he hates them. He hates them. And it's this character which is a serious worry about him

He's very, he comes across, for example, he did brilliantly on I'm a Celebrity

eating all the kangaroo bollocks and whatever it is, snorting cockroaches. Fantastic

And he was funny and self-deprecating. That's not the real guy. the real guy is in this book told by his people who really knew him well why though would i be

persuaded or why would anybody be persuaded by i mean with the exception of annabel sanderson

actually who comes out of this i'm very poignantly i would say actually i think i think you do a great

great service in in here for what clearly was a life-defining horror show for her but but but her

aside, these are all relatively repugnant people who have fallen out with him. So part of me thinking

well, they would say that, wouldn't they? And since when do I care about a character reference

from Neil Hamilton? Good observation. But they're the people who are willing to talk to me. And

it's not just if I only had one of these people. No, exactly. So there is about four or five. There

others Alan Sked, founder of UKIP, who taught me history. We disagree about

he taught me history at LSE. We disagree about the European Union. I think it's a

wonderful and noble thing. He doesn't. But about Farage, he's very, very clear. And

Richard North, a former speechwriter at the European Parliament in early UKIP

days he said Faraj hates anybody with some kind of academic qualification or

academic quality so you're looking at a man who I think from very very early on

was his father was an alcoholic and that caused a loss of distress I think in the

family and if you if you go through this kind of misery when you're a toddler or

or very young, it causes all sorts of horrors down the track

Now, Trump's mother was seriously ill, and there's echoes of Trump. Putin's, there's great big questions about whether Putin's mom

and dad were really their mom and dad. He always seemed like a little boy lost

That's what people say of him. And so what you get is this kind of toddler-like emotional range

And Farage is less damaged than Putin and Trump, but he's still pretty damaged

And it's this viciousness he brings to his political allies, and in Annabelle's case, his former lover, which is shocking

And it's extraordinary that it's almost everybody, really, that is in his wake

has only negative things to say about him. I didn't like Farage when I started writing this book

I really don't like him now, and I'm afraid of him. You're afraid of him becoming Prime Minister

I'm afraid of him becoming Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition or a continuing MP because he is milking the system

Now, he will deny that. he says of me I caused him more misery than anyone else in 25 years in politics

but he is try harder he is dangerous he's dangerous to our democracy because I

think he's driven from he wants to get revenge he did that's revenge on the

world doesn't it it's revenge on the world revenge on people who are bright and revenge on people who do not look or talk white British um yeah I mean for

people who don't know and there won't be many you're you're a journalist of many years standing

as well as writing the 17 books that you mentioned has it surprised you how supine the media has been

i'm going to remember hopefully while framing this question to you that i think it was alistair

campbell um who has great words of praise for the on the cover of this book who was conducting an

interview recently in front of what he thought would be a very well informed audience and only

a third of them, all of them had heard of John Profumo, only a third of them had heard

of Nathan Gill, which gives an indication of how supine the British media has been in

reporting his former protege and very close friend and leader of his party in Wales, taking

money from a Kremlin stooge to spread Kremlin talking points in, in Western public discourse

That's one of my favourite examples of how the media has been utterly complicit in, in

allowing a lot of this to unfree. You've got a lot more years on the clock than I

have and you've been a lot more successful as a journalist so have you

been surprised by your colleagues this is failure? Well James this is the first

radio interview I done for this book so not a single invite from the BBC or Times radio and you unlike what happening here the books book been legal he hasn He denies all the allegations I make against him

and so he's crypto funders, so does convicted fraudster, posth George. It's a serious book, and I've got lots of good evidence

Michael Crick's written a book before. That was when Farage was an interesting gadfly

not somebody who might be prime minister. and I'm worried about the shape of the British economy

I'm worried about the price of oil and gas keep on going up and up

because of Trump's stupid war against Europe. But yeah, normally I don't like saying the media is a bit rubbish

but in terms of telling the story or reflecting the story I tell in this book

it's been, you're the first guy to interview me. Which wouldn't have been the case with any of your previous books

No, I mean, it's odd. I mean, Killer in the Kremlin was a bestseller

Some of the, you know, my book about Navalny was actually overtaken by Navalny's book about Navalny, which is a wonderful, wonderful book

So I get this is making a out of running. So let's take the five million

The five million, it's a gift or it's for his security. It's a gift. Thanks to Brexit or it's for his security

But it was given in 2024, 2025. He goes to Las Vegas

Farage goes to Las Vegas and he launches his crypto bill. And in that bill, he says that at the moment capital gains tax is 24 percent

But if your money is in crypto, it will be 10 percent. And immediately that will cause a run on the pound because anyone with serious money will move their money from poundstone to crypto

By the way, this is a guy who spent a lot of his career talking about saving the pound

This policy, one policy alone would sink the pound. It'd make it very, very difficult for the government to raise taxation for things

Defence, the NHS, our schools. So it's revenge on the world again

It feels like it. But he had, I think, a miserable very early childhood because his father was an alcoholic

He left the family home when Farage was five or six or something like this

But alcoholism isn't an overnight thing. But also, he had this kind of anger at people

Now, I've known 12 people at Dulwich who said, he said things like, Hitler was right

This Jewish classmate, Peter Etagihel, who's a wonderful man, he went, as in gassing

Hitler was right. He sang a song, gas them all, gas them all, gas them all

And there are 34 witnesses of that. And for this book, I've met 12 of them in person

This is not, in my view, a fabrication. Well, and then in classic Pharaoh's style

he claims that he's had letters from former classmates rejecting that version of events

and has produced currently precisely none. Well, he wrote out the letter, and the letter may exist

And I'm sure the letter exists, but that man has not come forward

So some of the 34 prefer, because they've got their own reasons

they've got sensitive jobs. Some of the 34 hit the public domain

but I have met Peter Etichy. So have I. No, I mean, but Farad said he had a letter of someone

refuting their version of the event. And we don't know who that person is. No

So at the moment, in terms of public... 34-0. Yeah, and that's not good

And you also speak to the teacher who wrote... Yes. I hadn't heard her from her other..

So Chloe Deakin is a wonderful and brave woman. And by the way, this is an all-boys school

and the only person who has the balls to take for Arjon

is a woman teacher. By the way, she's really funny. She's really left, and she left because she wrote this stiff letter

to the headmaster saying, this boy has been racist, he's been anti-Semitic

you should not make him a prefect. And she leaves pretty much because of that

And the head teacher, who's dead now, It says some of the people who criticised Farage

have got no sense of humour. Well, that's rubbish. That's interesting. It's rubbish

Final question, because I want people to read the real Nigel Farage would-be prime minister

on trial by John Sweeney for themselves. What surprised you most? What did you unearth that disturbed you

or surprised you the most? It's the cruelty. So when Annabel Sanderson, she's in a wretched position

because she's swept away by his charisma, and that's real and his worldliness and his fun his inside track she loves all of it and you know

she's on the payroll UKIP researcher in the European Parliament as is Farage's then wife

they both and she can't bear it so he's got it just to be clear he's got his wife and his mistress

on the party payroll and at the European Parliament and this comes out but they deny it and eventually

after Brexit, she sells her story to a paper, and a UKIP spokesman says Annabelle

Sanderson had a history of mental illness, and that feels cruel to me

John Sweeney, thank you. And that book is out now. It's quite a read, and I think you'd agree, I know

quite a lot about Farage, but even I found it fascinating. We have been in touch

with Reform UK. We often are, actually. We're always asking them to come on the programme

30P Leaf submitted a formal complaint about me calling them names not long ago

and I invited him on the programme. But they're yet to reply, so I'll

do it for them. In response to all the claims that you heard John make, they have previously

said, Nigel Farage has denied claims he made racist comments while attending Dulwich College

Nigel Farage has repeatedly insisted that a £5 million donation from Christopher

Harbourn was a purely private donation and quote, wasn't political in any sense at all

End quote. Reform says it is the only party calling for proper regulation of cryptocurrency

Nigel Farage has denied he has any contempt for working class voters. He has previously told the Times

if you represent working people in this country, my door is open. The doors of every Reform Council leader from Sunderland to Sandwell are open

I believe he's yet to hold a face-to-face constituency surgery in Clacton-on-Sea

Just, you know, by the by. Reforms Deputy Leader Richard Tice said

there was absolutely no truth in claims of a connection between comments by Rupert Lowe criticising Mr Farage

and allegations against Rupert Lowe that emerged the next day. And finally, Farage has previously described claims

that he employed his mistress to work for him in the EU Parliament as rubbish and claims he hired his wife as beneath contempt

So I'm glad we've cleared that up. My door really does remain open, however

14 years. I said, no, 12 years I've been waiting for him to pay me the courtesy of dropping into the studio for a chat

after I paid him the courtesy of accepting his challenge to a debate 12 years ago

12 years! Still waiting, but my door is always open. James O'Brien on LBC

It is 12 You are listening to James O on LBC I got an unhinged headline for you I completely forgot Unhinged headline Oh if you want to watch that back on YouTube you see that I genuinely jumped there

This isn't, this is A, this is not, this is not AI. It's Keith just hitting me round the back of the head then with one of my own stings

Honestly, you wait years for a sting to accompany your work on this programme

and then you get surprised when one actually turns up. But the reason that you shouldn't have done that, Keith

is because I haven't found it yet. I can't find the flipping unhinged headline. I was looking for it

I was concentrating so hard on looking for it that when you smash me around the back of the head with the stick... Right

Shall we try again? Shall we? Right? It's time for an unhinged headline

Unhinged headline. Dominic Lawson has moved from the Daily Mail to the Daily Telegraph

and he is clearly very keen to curry favour with his new Masters because he's gone right in there

with one of the most unhinged headlines we've seen. And it ties in with something we've been talking about a lot this week

Are you ready? AI... Excuse me. AI... Once again. AI... No. AI could let a misanthropic green fanatic wipe us all out

You tell me that that was a sub-editor and not one of those headline generators

Because what have you got? You've got AI, okay, misanthropic green fanatic, okay, yeah, AI would let a misanthropic

and then wipe us all out. It's just a miracle they didn't get Armageddon into the conversation

Thank you, Keith. Unhinged Headline. Some of my favourite full disclosures, and I think it's because, you may be surprised

to hear this, I was such a pop fan as a kid. When my mates were reading Match and Shoot, I was reading Smash Hits

I just, I'd have the posters on my wall, I loved it. I used to even learn the lyrics from Look In magazine when I was younger

although I had to borrow that off my friend Vanessa. I love interviewing the people that were massive superstars when I was of a certain age

And I've had a right old run of it this year, including this week Tony Hadley of Spandau Ballet

who not only turns out, I'd never met him before, to be an absolutely top bloke with whom we've got some curious connections back in the day

although nothing that you'd think, but also loves listening to LBC. and you can tell he's a proper fan of LBC

because he ran through the schedule big fan of Sheila big fan of Nick, big fan of me

he's one of those very committed listeners to the station and it was just one of the many reasons

why I had such fun talking to him here's a little taste of my conversation with

Tony Hadley I get a real kick out of singing when you stand on stage

it's almost euphoric you can hear yourself I've got an amazing band

the band that they're all great mates and they're amazing and there's something like I say euphoric

about the whole thing and um yeah I just I just love it so I never want to give it up what I've

got to get right is the home life balance okay because you're on the road a lot yeah and it's

the big band now I mean you're out there with a big band for Christmas that comes in at uh November

December so that's that's 19 shows across November December a bunch of Christmas songs

a few spano ones thrown in, but it's also my love of Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Jack Jones

Dean Martin, Ella Fitz. It's all those classic, wonderful songs that I find reasonably comfortable singing

I find they're quite a lot lower than the other keys. And you get into this, oh, the summer wind, and it's just..

It's crooning. It's crooning, and I absolutely love it. I'd sit on a stool sometimes, a little glass of Jack Daniels

a copy of my hero, Frank. It's nice. You met Frank? Yeah, that's a story. Yeah. 17, Royal Albert Hall. He was amazing. Do you want to hear that

I never think that when I'm interviewing people. I've heard this story before. It doesn't stop it being a brilliant story

So I want to hear it again. So there I was, 17, and I was working for IPC magazines

And so what I used to do is get an IPC press magazine sticker that we used to stick on the parcels

And I used to trim it, stick it in a typewriter, and my pseudonym was Anthony Holden

journalist for Melody Maker, squibble the signature, stick it on the inside of my jacket

So the first night, Royal Albert Hall, go through the stage door, Anthony Holden, Melody Maker

I was 17. It's smooth. That's a lot of front. It is

That's the second night. That's the first night. Second night, I went, Mum, we're going to the Albert Hall

My mum's 94 now. She's amazing. We're going to the Albert Hall. I'm taking to see Frank Sinatra

She said, have you got tickets? Don't worry about it. She said, oh, I can't be involved in anything

I said, mum, trust me, you'll be fine. So at the time, I knew all the ticket touts

So I said, look, you've got a ticket for the gods. I went, yeah, time. There you go

So you go up to the gods, mum. I'll go through the stage door again

She said, oh, please. I said, mum, it'll be fine. She was terrified. Go through the stage door

So I'm up there, and I'm looking down, and I think, ooh, okay, there's a couple of seats just right by the stage there's Roger Moore there's Michael Caine

oh there was all the stars there you know and Frank came out they all came out you know and so

we're walking down the stairwells and I'm just going uh yeah Anthony Holden my melody maker so

we go we're right on the side of the stage and of course I knew when he what was his last song

and as he finished he just went off to walk off the stage I sort of literally just leapt across

Mr. Sinatra and got pushed back by a few goons and he said

Oh, what's going on? I just sat my hand out and said, Mr. Sinatra, I just want to say, amazing performance

It's such an honor to meet you. And he said, well, you know, what do you do

I said, well, I'm at school, but I'm in a band. And I said, you know, one day I want to be a singer

You know, I'm a singer now and I want to play the Royal Albert Hall. And he said, well, son, I really wish you all the best

And he said, it's good to see some young people at the concert, which is exactly what I say to young kids today

so it's kind of come around full uh loads of stuff in there yeah full fanboying from me i don't know

why with the musicians it's probably more fanboying than it is with the authors or the politicians or

anybody else so it's because it's the magic of pop music isn't it um and being young and also

yeah okay so i'm communing with my younger self a bit there i don't think i had a spandau picture

on my wall but i certainly had wham and and durand i hear sting was in this building earlier

in the week no yeah yeah neither of us sorry neither i went i ran in and out of every lift but

well next time i was more of an andy summers girl actually were you really i loved sting i loved

the solo stuff i love police yeah um sorry she and i's having a little chat before the weekend i

hope i hope you don't mind if you missed any you can listen to that full disclosure and you can check out tony's tour with the big band in particular in november and december but he's

he's always on the road whether he's doing the sort of the classics or doing that thing that he

does at Christmas with the Big Band. I know he's playing the Coliseum as well. I'll see you there if you fancy it

If you missed any of today's show, you can listen back on our free Global Player app or the

LBC app where you can also stay up to date with all the latest news, videos and opinions and listen

to a range of podcasts including that one and James O'Brien Daily. So download the official

LBC app. It's free, you know. Coming up at four on LBC, Tom Swarbrick

But now it's time for Sheila Fogart. James O'Brien on LBC. Thank you

Thank you. Thank you

James O'Brien on LBC