What should Harry and Meghan do when they come back? | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

I promise not to laugh, okay

Three minutes after ten is the time. Did you hear yesterday's programme about you, Les

No? I thought at least Keith might have nodded at that point. But we tried to work out why everybody had gone mad

You probably haven't learned or heard, if you rely upon people who told you Brexit would be brilliant

Boris Johnson was a stand-up guy, Donald Trump was a genius, Liz Truss was an economic guru

austerity was a great idea, Benjamin Netanyahu was going to be good for the international reputation of Israel

I mean, I could go on. If you listen to those kind of people, you probably, and of course that ULES was the end of civilization as we know it

if you listen to those kind of people, you probably don't know about the research published yesterday

that found that the introduction of ULES was having a, quote, stunning, end quotes, effect upon the regrowth

or the growth of lungs in small children who had previously been damaged by pollution

so it seemed like a timely moment to reflect upon how mad everybody went in the run-up to the

extension the introduction of the extension of ulez it was not and you will allow me to say this i

think it was not the most successful quest that we have ever been on together do you know why

because we got perfectly sensible answers to the questions we got answers that might have

answered the question what what were the sort of misgivings about you there's or what could

have been handled better or what might have explained why people ended up thinking things

that weren't true or were you a bit aggrieved by the fact that you had to pay money to replace

your car and you can answer yes to all of those questions but they don't touch the sides of the

question of why everybody went bonkers and the reason why i asked you not to laugh was because

as i sat down this morning i saw a a message from nitsan which simply said good morning james i

I haven't come across anyone that has told me what Meghan and Harry have actually done wrong

So I'm a little bit too close to suggesting that Meghan and Harry are the human embodiment of ULES

They are something about which a certain type of person was very, very successfully persuaded by a certain type of pundit to be furious

The kind of media that is best described as weapons permanently in search of a target

And, of course, when those weapons find a target, they bring audience with them, they bring people with them

and the target comes under sustained and brutal attack, despite the fact that none of the people undertaking the attack

can tell you what it is that the target has done to deserve the attack

It sounds like a bit of a stretch, doesn't it? The comparison of Harry and Meghan and you, Les, programmes

But you take my point. No one yesterday came close to explaining how people managed to go so mad about an anti-pollution measure

Literally nobody. I mean, we could perhaps explain why you went so mad about an anti-pollution measure introduced by

or not even introduced, extended by a brown-skinned Muslim thrice-elected mayor. Then you get slightly different answers to the question

But why did you go mad about an anti-pollution measure that we now know has had an incredibly positive impact upon the lungs of our actual children

What the hell are you going to say in answer to that? And I think Nixon has a point

I don't think I've ever, and how many phonings have we done on this? I don't think we've ever really heard a powerful explanation of what it is that she is supposed to have done wrong

People use words like uppity, don't they, to describe Meghan Markle. I can't remember who that actually was, but someone with a public profile called her uppity

Not a word that I ever hear applied to men. Not a word, I don't think I've ever heard applied to a white woman either

And people insist that they know more about her than I do, for example

which is technically impossible, given that we all rely upon the media for our so-called insights or knowledge of these people

And I probably spend more time immersed in the media than the average bear

what have they actually done wrong if you are either paying attention

to the plight of this couple or you are familiar with the things

I routinely point out on the frankly quite rare occasions that we turn our attention to them

you'll know that a little later in this programme I'll share with you a direct comparison between

two members of the royal family Meghan and Kate two sisters-in-law behaving in almost identical conduct

I mean, I still, when I look at this, I dig it out, don't I, every couple of years. And every time I look at it

I think, that can't be right. That can't be right. There are two individuals

two members of the same, two people who have married, two women who have married into the same family

engaging in identical or similar behaviour and prompting responses that are absolutely polar opposite

I'll just give you one example, in case you're not quite sure what I'm talking about. Here is a story from the Daily Mail about Kate

about the now Princess of Wales. Not long to go, pregnant Kate tenderly cradles her baby bump

while wrapping up her royal duties ahead of maternity leave, and William confirms she's due any minute now

Isn't that lovely? Treacly voice. She's due any minute now. That's a lovely story

Pregnant Kate tenderly cradles her baby bump. Okay. Fast forward. less than a year

to the pregnancy of her sister-in-law Meghan Markle as was and the same organ

reports on the same story a woman touching her pregnancy bump under the rather different headline

Why can't Meghan Markle keep her hands off her bump? Experts tackle the question

that has got the nation talking Is it pride, vanity, acting or a new age bonding technique

now look me in the eye and tell me this country's not nuts or at least this country's treatment of

these people is not nuts this is not even a single syllable of exaggeration two women

members of the same family touch the bump that they have developed while pregnant

one of them not long to go pregnant kate tenderly cradles her baby bump while wrapping up her royal

duties ahead of maternity leave and william confirms she's due any moment now fast forward

11 months 10 months from march 2018 to january 2019 why can't megan markle keep her hands off

her bump experts tackle the question that has got the nation talking is it pride vanity acting or a new age bonding technique and that is just one example of 20

some of which i will probably share with you later in the program and some of which i'll

probably forget to. But that is the country to which this couple are returning. And if I knew

them, I would wonder why. Well, I mean, I don't need to know them to wonder why. But if I did know

them, I would probably caution them not to, to be honest. We have the hounding of Professor Jason

Arde, very fresh in our memory, the glee with which that man was pursued by the same elements

of the media that pursued Meghan Markle. In fact, I think I saw one columnist saying that Jason

Nardo reminds me of Meghan Markle." And you have to sit there and think, why? On what

possible planet would that be A reasonable or a pertinent observation So you would as a friend say are you sure about this i mean it going to be awful and then you would of course reflect upon the fact

they know a lot more about how awful it's going to be than you do they will be even more familiar

with the febrile atmosphere into which they will be inserting themselves and their children

on their return to this country. And that's why, I mean, I suspect

that we'll never know the full story. We might do. But the theory, if you wanted one from me

would simply be that while he was here in July, while they were all here in July

and when the king saw his grandchildren for the first time in four years, something shifted inside them

Because do you know what? Like you and like me, they are humans who are members of a family

It's mad that, isn't it? It's sort of a little clip of Harry. It's a day for playing clips of Harry, apparently

So I've got a lovely little clip of Harry for you in which his basic normality is on full display

But, of course, he is simultaneously among the least normal people in the world. His life, his background, the context in which he was brought up

is utterly, utterly abnormal. And lots of contexts are. It's just that most of them aren't on full display

Most of them are not in glorious technicolour every time they stick their head out of a window

But that is something they know more about than we do. So I presume that the shifting of the sands

is down to some sort of desire to be closer to home

to have the grandchildren growing up a little bit closer to the grandparents

I don't know. I'll never know. And that's not the phone-in. That's not the phone-in. The phone-in is..

What should they do? Is it even possible? that they could return to the days when they were more popular than William and Kate

They were just more natural. They were just more... Before the guns of the British media parked upon their lawn

they were pretty much the dream ticket. You had a bona fide war hero and a beautiful actress

It was kind of Prince Rainier and Princess Grace territory. of course that was never going to overcome some of the racist objections to Meghan Markle I still

wonder which member of the royal family it was that wondered aloud how dark the baby's skin would

be but I suspect it's possibly one who isn't a member of the royal family anymore but um that

that extraordinary period in which they were taken to the hearts of a nation because we're

We're mugs, aren't we? Often, you and I. You can take someone to your heart

and then when the media starts its campaign and the media starts turning its guns on somebody

you can change your view. You can move without knowing why from liking someone to not liking someone

in exactly the same way that you can be persuaded you, Les, was the end of civilisation as we know it

despite the fact that all the people who understood it knew that it was going to have an entirely beneficial effect on

and I'll say it again literally, our children's lungs. we can be persuaded to believe anything

Don't ask me. Ask Joseph Goebbels. It's just true. I don't know what they could do

He is on spectacular form when you see him in the environs of the Invictus Games

or when you see him talking particularly about injured or distressed ex-service personnel

He's got this weird, and I say weird simply because it is out of the ordinary

they grow up, right, with this sense of duty, which you have to have

Some of them don't really have it, one thinks of Andrew. They don't really have a sense of having to give something back

And some of them, I think, don't really get it. They sort of see it almost as the dues that you pay

in return for the privilege that you enjoy. And I think people who might ordinarily find my politics quite attractive

are not necessarily going to chime with the next thing I'm about to say

I think that the late queen, and possibly even more so King Charles

in fact, definitely even more so King Charles, actually have a very deep-rooted sense of duty

Do not laugh, all right? King Charles clearly ties himself in knots

about things over which he feels he might possibly have some control

So he has spent his entire life trying to change things for the better

Whether it is the environment, where he was an incredibly early adopter

and has been proven right about many, many things, whether it's architecture

which was a little bit more controversial, whether it's the welfare of what we have to still

incredibly and hilariously call his country, it's there. Listen, it might be accompanied by the fact

that he's got someone who puts the toothpaste on his toothbrush every morning, and it might be accompanied by the fact

that he bowls around London in a golden carriage with a whopping great crown on his head

It might be accompanied by all sorts of things that are ridiculous

and yet at the same time, for many people, strangely moving. But he has a sense of proper duty

I think you can split the royals into the ones that resent it

and the ones that respect it. I think both positions are equally comprehensible

Imagine being born into that world. It's so easy to resent it

Why can't I go down the pub with my mates more easily? Why can't I get off with a girl when I'm 16 without it ending up on the front page of The Sun

Why can't I do these things? And, of course, most of them will have both of these things fighting for prominence inside them

And I would have thought, historically, that the more baubles at the end of it

the easier it is to deal with the negatives. You're going to actually be king one day

But I don't even think that's fair. I think possibly that might add to the resentment

I don't really want to be king one day, but I am on rails. I can't possibly step out of this

But Harry, the reason why he has done so many of the things that he's done

is because he feels that his status brings with it responsibilities

He's got to look after himself as well. He's got to look after his wife

He's got to look after his children. But he can never not be Prince Harry

even if we started calling him something else, unless his title was removed as a consequence of disgrace

or as a consequence of a kind of low-level abdication. He can never not be, Prince Harry, he can never not be the king's son

And I think he feels, I'm fairly certain that he feels, that that involves a quid pro quo

The quid is the title, the life, the prominence, the prominence, the status

not so much the bells and whistles and the baubles but the status somebody who has done nothing to

achieve their fame it's almost unique to the royals that you could probably say about the

children of celebrities but they have a lot more choice there'll be some celebrities whose

children names you don even know and there be some celebrities whose children names you will never be able to forget in a month of Sundays There an element of choice in nepotism in wanting to use your name to advance your own career there no nothing wrong with that you know

we'd all do it given the opportunity but royals almost uniquely achieve status at birth they

achieve status and prominence and therefore influence at birth imagine being born influential

And listen, if you think I'm exaggerating, what would happen if it somehow became known

what brand of baby wear the mother of a newly born prince was favouring

That brand of baby wear would sell out in moments. That's just low-level commercial interest

commercial influence. That is a baby that is barely born, that already has influence

that already has clout, that already has sway. and I've watched Harry quite closely over the years

partly because he's such an exemplar of how evil our right wing media is

and partly because I'm British and I find the royal family fascinating

and I think the key to understanding him is understanding what he sees

as the inviolable relationship between the gifts of influence and what you do with them

I really do. I might sound a little bit, I don't know, naive

It might sound as if I'm angling for a gong in the event of him ever ending up on the throne

which, let's face it, is impossible. But I'm not. I'm just trying to work out what I see in front of me

And I see a man born with influence who feels a deep sense of responsibility

to using that influence for good. Did anyone else just think of Star Wars

It's like the Force. The Force is strong within him. and he wants to use it for good

and he doesn't get everything right and he doesn't always do himself any favours

but I don't know I think somewhere behind the decision to come back to Britain

will be the belief that he can do more good here than he can where he currently is in California

shall we have a phone in or would you like me to carry on until 11 o'clock

because as you've probably gathered I am perfectly capable of doing so I would rather have a phone in this morning

but I'm going to leave that decision up to you because if you want to have a phone in you have to ring me

If you don't want to have a phone in, don't ring me. What would you like them to do when they move back to Britain

This supremely scrutinised couple, this heinously abused family, this extraordinarily influential unit

What would you like them to do? There are two questions. What do you think they should do and what would you like them to do

It might be the same question. It might be the same question, but I'd like you to have a crack at one or both

And the number you need to do that is 0345 6060 973

It's 21 minutes after 10. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC

And the question, for once, is pretty clear. James O'Brien on LBC

Three minutes after 10 is the time. It's one of those mornings where I have no way of knowing

how far into your cheek your tongue is inserted when you get in touch with me via text

but I hope I can tell when you talk to me. Ash, for example, suggests that Meghan will be on Loose Women soon

Nicky writes rather more seriously, why would Harry bring his family back to a country

where such vicious hatred has been whipped up against them simply for daring to leave and speak a few home truths

The relentless vitriol from sections of the press, certain broadcasters, and the endless parade of so-called royal experts

has been utterly revolting and enormously profitable for those peddling it. Who could forget Jeremy Clarkson's grotesque fantasy of parading Meghan through the streets while crowds, I think she was naked as well in that fantasy, Nick, he pelted her with excrement

That is what they're coming back to, but let's not patronise them. They know that better than we do

And there it is. I'd say welcome back and brace yourself for the righteous right being a tad indignant

And then perhaps we should add to the question, why? Just like you, Les, how did they end up being so universally attacked

when it's very hard to work out what it is they're supposed to have done wrong

Lorraine is in Stratford. Lorraine, what do you reckon? Thank you for taking my call

I feel really strongly about this. I'm Caribbean. I'm born and bred in England

I consider myself English. And watching Harry and his brother grow up

they went through a lot. So for me, it was a case of understanding

why he wanted to leave with his family in the first place, given that there was an initial plan

And I draw it back to the initial plan. When the Queen was alive, they had an initial plan

which was to work more closely on the Commonwealth matters because of understandings that Meghan actually would have brought to the table as well

When they got married, I thought that it was a huge plus for the royal family

to actually have someone of... I think we forget that. Different heritage

And I think that's totally been forgotten. Yeah, the reaction was largely, we're a decent country

We're a decent people until we get poison poured into our ears. Correct

And I felt the media did that. And I feel that they, what we didn't know at the time

was Meghan was going through a lot and we didn't know why

And then all of a sudden, they wanted to step back. Now, from what I recall and what I remember

that was because she lost a child, which is unimaginable but then if you bring on the onslaught

afterwards of the case of they just wanted to step back, they never said they wanted to

leave and if you look at the Queen mother's, if you look at the Queen's speech

she said it was for a year and then it would be reviewed and that

has been totally forgotten, overridden by the media, so I felt like the public opinion was strongly

against them because they wanted to step back, but that was for mental health

I think that's chicken and egg. I think that the vitriol was in place long, long, long before that happened

I mean, some of the stuff I'm reading, I mean, 2018, 2019, when Kate tenderly cradles her baby bump

why can't Meghan Markle keep her hands off her bump? Can you explain that

I mean, what on earth is going on there? How did we not notice more at the time? I agree all of that

And as a black woman in this country, I saw that. And many people did see that

although there were still many people that felt the opposite. it and I accept that. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I do think the gravy

train went and everybody jumped on the bandwagon and actually forgot what she was going through

what they were going through as a family in the beginning. Do you think we'll ever be able to get a proper answer to the question of what caused the

avalanche of unpleasantness? no because i don't think personally that what harry calls the institution and and what different

people in their in the royal households will be honest about it i honestly don't think we'll get

to the truth because of that luck of honesty for whatever reason it might be because they don't

want to it might be that they can i don think we get to the truth you i do think harry is a person of integrity and does tell the truth albeit people won accept it because they think he influenced a lot more by Meghan But that misogynistic isn it

I don't know if that's the right word, but the idea that a woman, any man who, I don't know, wants to get in touch with his own trauma

or his own past or understands vulnerability, this is a man that we have all watched tear off a microphone

in front of a television camera and rush towards trouble when an alarm went off at Camp Bastion in Afghanistan

And the idea that some armchair critic will sit there saying, oh, he's under the thumb, he is, he's henpecked

I mean, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so widely held and, of course, endorsed by so many corners of our media

It is absolutely pathetic. And it's a way, I think, of using a man to attack a woman, isn't it

It's not really an attack on Harry when they say that he's unduly influenced by his wife

They're saying, look at that uppity woman over there. Look at that uppity woman of colour

How dare she have agency? How dare she be an equal partner in a marriage with one of our princes

Who does she think she is? Correct. And I agree with every part of that

Bring it back to the current day now. Why would they want to come back

Yeah, why? Things are different. And I do believe that Harry does want to rebuild things

over here. And the King is getting on a bit and he's not been well. I lost my dad in 2012

I'd cross continents for another day, for another year, for another month with him. And maybe it is as simple

as that. We shouldn't ever know the real answer. Or we may never

know the real answer to that question. But we can, I think, and as you've just done rather nicely

we can think out loud about what would be the best way, the best role for

them when they come back here. Because it's tricky. And I think, personally

although Lorraine and I agree that some of these questions are never going to have completely definitive answers

which reminds me, Mystery Hour, later today, from 12. It's not a coincidence

It's not a coincidence that they go from being absolute darlings to being attacked in a way that absolutely insulated

and protected his brother and his wife from unwelcome or unpleasant scrutiny

His theory, and he's explained this, is that they were almost offered up as a sacrifice

you've got to protect my wife from these attacks. And the either explicit or implicit response was

well, yeah, but if we do that, they're going to go after someone else. So the royal family proper

or the main tier, top tier royal family, get a bit of a break from media scrutiny or media attacks

And as a reward or as a consequence or as a price for that

they do not protect Meghan Markle from media intrusion and media attention

with anything like the alacrity or the enthusiasm that they would have protected her sister-in-law

And, I mean, the examples, I've given you one about the pregnancy bump

It moved on to the columnists the next day. The news stories moved on to the columnists

So when the columnists got hold of the Kate Middleton story, you get bumping along nicely

The Duchess was seen placing a protective hand on her tummy as she exited the event

Whereas when the columnists got hold of Meghan Markle... Personally, I find the cradling a bit like

those signs in the back of cars, baby on board, virtue signaling, as though the rest of us barren

Haridans deserve to burn alive in our cars. How do you go from a woman cradling her pregnancy bump

to people burning alive in their cars, unless you are objectively mad? You have been driven mad by

something. You've been driven mad by Meghan Markle. And that's the third question on the board this

morning what on earth happened why how did they end up prompting these reservoirs of hatred and

vitriol and remember you can't even answer that question by saying well they were very arrogant

or they were very this or they were very that reservoirs of unbearable vitriol for the crime

of cradling a baby bump here's dominic ellis with your headlines james o'brien on lbc

34 is the time. I think of all the stories that... Because I told you yesterday

I do occasionally have little wobbles where I think, am I exaggerating this

I don't quite go full David Mitchell and find myself thinking, are we the baddies here

When it comes to media coverage of almost everything in this country

Do you have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about the right-wing media? Is it always..

And then you listen to some people talking about things or indeed not talking about things

Look at the ULES story, which everybody was persuading or trying to persuade their listeners and readers and viewers

was the end of civilisation as we know it, and they had absolutely nothing to say about the fact that it has been shown to have had an extraordinary effect on children's lungs

down with that sort of thing. I think probably more than anything, because the juxtapositions are so stark

this round-up that BuzzFeed did many years ago, of how almost identical, actually often identical behaviours

by two people in the same family were reported in such completely different ways

And I've done this before. I've read through them before. And every single time I return to it

I find myself thinking, wow, how do we not notice this while it's going on

And then I remember that's what... Well, I remember two things. I remember that some people do notice this

I'm pretty sure Harry and Meghan noticed it. And then I remember that's why it's called gaslighting

That's why it's called gaslighting. I think it comes from a play, doesn't it, written in the 30s

when a man wanted to send his own wife mad. And so he would slowly turn down the gas lamps in their apartment

And then when she questioned whether the gas lamps had been turned down, he would insist that they hadn't

even though, of course, he knew that they had, because he'd done it himself

until you just begin to sow these seeds of doubt in someone's mind about their own sanity

And you end up making them believe things that are demonstrably untrue

That is how you gaslight a population. I'll give you another example. This is from 2017, I think, versus 2019

Same newspaper again. The first one was the Mail. This is the Express. Kate's morning sickness cure

Prince William gifted with an avocado for pregnant duchess. It's a lovely story about a member of the public being at a royal event and giving Prince William an avocado

Have you noticed I've stopped saying avocado pear? Do you know why I've stopped saying avocado pear

Because I was the only person left in Britain who said avocado pear. And I didn't like the way that made me stand out

And someone said, hey, this is really good for morning sickness. It's been reported that Kate has morning sickness

This is an avocado. It's really good for morning sickness. Here you go. two years later

there is another story about a member of this family and an avocado

don't say literally that's it so that's the first story about a member

of this family and an avocado here's another story about a member of this family

and an avocado, are you ready for it? Meghan Markle's beloved avocado

linked to human rights abuse and drought, millennial shame you know right

If you're not familiar with this, if you haven't seen this stuff before

you are probably reeling. this because we didn't notice it or it doesn't get pointed out or we didn't register it properly

at the time because we were being gaslit. Some of us resisted it, some of us didn't fall for the

idea that she's evil personified because of avocados or because she cradles her baby bump

and some people spotted it including the journalists that put this together for BuzzFeed

But it's the same story. And again let's have a look at the body of the articles. Ready

Prince William was given one of the green fruit wrapped up in a bow by a little boy whose mother

is suffering during her pregnancy too. He said he'd take it to Kate and see what happens

and say good luck for the boy's mummy. Oh, that's nice. Fast forward from September 2017 to January 2019

The pregnant Duchess of Sussex and so-called avocado on toast whisperer is wolfing down a fruit linked to water shortages

illegal deforestation and all-round general environmental devastation. I think we probably should have gone back to the question

of what on earth prompted this extraordinary tirade, this extraordinary avalanche of hatred

But I'm not. I'm asking what you think they can possibly do

when they come back to this country to, I don't know, challenge, overturn, reverse this hideousness

this absolutely shameful hideousness regarding the way that they've been treated. 10.39 is the time

What would you... What can they do? Because a few people have pointed out that the trip to Australia, when they absolutely smashed it, looks from the outside like the beginning of the end

This is from Adrian. It all began when they visited Australia. They were very popular and therefore couldn't be allowed to overshadow William and Kate

Aid in Northampton suggests that the very establishment ordered the attacks. I don't know about that, but there would have been profound discomfort

about the idea of the spare being more popular than the air

Helen is in Sevenoaks. Helen, what would you like to say? Hello, James. I'm just so delighted to speak to you

because ever since lockdown, you saw me through lockdown. Well, thank you

I've got to get this in, sorry. No, please. Filly boots, I love it. You're just fantastic

Oh, stop. Don't stop. Don't stop. Oh, stop, Helen. Don't stop. Keep me sane

Thank you. Well, there'll be some people wondering whether you could possibly be sane

after that vote of confidence. What made you pick up the phone today

Well, all along, since Megan got all that crap and nastiness, I've just felt that it was so unjust and horrible

And then, you know, it just continues. Where do you think it comes from

Oh, the press. No, but... Oh, so the people... They want to whisk up hatred and make money

And he was... He was just such a lovely guy. I've always thought that

I mean, neither of us know him. But, I mean, you sort of see him doing his thing

And the bit I always... He's doing him. Yeah, I think so. The bit I always found maddened is

what do you need to be to be guaranteed the respect and affection

the admiration and affection of the British public? What do you need to be

What are the biggest possible head starts you could have? Well, no. I mean, on paper, before this all happened

I just said, a member of the royal family, a military hero

someone who's comfortable in their own skin, funny, doing work for others, a love affair, a fairytale romance

He's got the flipping lot. And here we are, queuing up to attack him

I know. His grandmother had it all and I met his father at the Palas, actually

Oh. Because I sang in an opera that was put on there for a special occasion

And he was absolutely charming and lovely too. I think this, and obviously his brother wasn't, so, you know, it's not a guarantee by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah

But I still, and I do this for a living. as you know, I can't ever get to the source

It's a bit odd to compare it to you, Les, but I don't think I will ever. I guess you either feel it or you don't

I will never fully understand the levels of vitriol displayed by members of the media

and then parroted and swallowed wholesale by members of the public. It's just making money, I think

and they do anything. Some lowlives can, they do anything. And I thought, you, Les, you back that up so beautifully

Doesn't matter, though, does it, to the people that we're talking about? I wonder what the crossover is

I wonder what the Venn diagram is between people who were persuaded that Ules was the end of civilisation

as we know it, and people who have been persuaded that Meghan Markle is some sort of enemy of the crown or enemy of the country

Enemy of the state is the phrase. Helen, thank you, and thank you for your lovely words as well

I've got others, you know, and these are the single most illustrative examples

of not just how appallingly treated Meghan in particular was, but of course, you know, if you

insult someone's wife, you insult and hurt them, and of course their children, but also

how absolutely insane almost all of our media is, the way that they can write about two people from

the same family doing almost exactly the same thing, and getting treated in

completely different circumstances. If you're rolling your eyes at Helen and I

talking about what a nice chappy seems to be, then just have a little listen to this because this is not when he's on guard or on duty i was

really jealous when they did this a lot of you are suggesting we should get him on full disclosure which makes you a bit like the management to lbc i have to tell you this because obviously we

interview an awful lot of people on full disclosure the only criteria for involvement or inclusion is

somebody i'd really like to sit down for an hour with and almost 99.9 percent of the time that has

been born out. I've really enjoyed the hour that I've sat down with the guests on Full Disclosure. But every now

and then, one of the top brass will wonder by and say, have you thought about

getting the Pope on Full Disclosure? And I'll go, oh yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah, cheers

Can I help you with that? I think maybe it hasn't occurred to us. Have you thought about getting David

Beckham on Full? Oh, thanks boss. Yeah, nice one. Nice one. And

someone will wonder past in the next couple of days after this has been in the news and they'll go, hey, he's

an idea. Why don't we try and get Prince Harry on full Oh, wow, no wonder you're in

management, and I'm just a lowly galley slave rowing away in the

bowels of the boat. Let's try Eleanor. Did you, and Eleanor will roll her

eyes at me going, yeah, thanks. Thanks for that. Thanks, boss. Great idea. We'll try

and get Prince Harry. We'll try and get one of the most scrutinised and interesting people in

public discourse on full disclosure, shall we? But anyway, he didn't come on full

disclosure. He went on Joe Flipping Marler's podcast instead, and I'll play you a little bit

of it after this, because it does display the, the, the, the warmth and humanity that

I think is blimmin' obvious. And yet, of course, some people don't see the warmth and humanity

They see um people burning in cars and avocado pep avocados pep pep pep pep pep pep turning into Arkwright from Hope for All Hours Avocados pa pa pa pa pa pa pa pa Avocados causing famine and flood

I'll play you a little bit of that after this James O'Brien on LBC

You thought the comparison with you Les was stretching it a bit

How about this? So William and Kate never really look like they're having a good time

Even if they are and I hope they are Because you wouldn't wish unhappiness on many people

Harry and Meghan always look like they're having a good time so do you know who I'm thinking of now

William as Keir Starmer Harry as Andy Burnham so it's a good job that we don't have like armies anymore

it's a good job that Harry can't stick his standard up on Turnham Green and then muster all of his supporters in the nobility

to bring their own retinues and march upon SW1 but there you go, tell me that's not true

tell me that's not true William's a bit of a starmer and Harry's a bit of a Burnham at the moment

and goodness knows whether Burnham approval or optimism barometer is going to go in the

coming days so anyway as Kieran in North Norfolk points out there are podcasts he'll go on

I bet you James he writes that Emily Maitlis could get Prince Harry on her show

I bet you're right also the full weight of global would be behind

those attempts whereas me I'd just be phoning up someone who met him once and saying

any chance you could ask Harry if he'd come on my podcast Would that be okay? Jake, yeah

Have you ever met a... No. All right. Do you know anyone who has? No. All right. It reminds me of my days as a newspaper journalist

Maitlis wants Harry on her podcast. That's it. Everyone. Everyone in the building would be on the case

They'd be chasing him down like a... I don't know, like a fox in the days of yore

Like hunting. But Joe Marler got him as well. And this is lovely

This is just really, really human. And I don't know that this is a side of him

that many people actually want you to see. Right, it's not exactly Plato's Symposium

but there is somebody having fun in a way that I don't know we've ever seen his brother having fun

and listen, this is just one person speculating with absolutely no evidence

whatsoever except the evidence I'm sharing with you that's part of the problem

that's part of the problem fairytale romance fun loving, nearly said criminal then

and that is the thing that gets held up, that's the Andy Burnham

isn't it, to the Keir Starmer and that's why they didn't like it

possibly. That's why they allowed the abuse to go on. Because you can

make a call. I don't know how much influence you can exert on His Majesty's media

if you're actually His Majesty, but Harry's view is very much they could have done a hell

of a lot more to protect her from the sort of stuff I've been sharing with you

today. Most obviously, I think, that juxtaposition of headlines, which is just extraordinary. John's

in Ilford. John, what do you reckon? Oh, hello, yes. Well, first

I want to say, I'm not being politically I'm not really a royalist. I'm not really either, but I'm not anti-royalist either

I'm just an ordinary joke. It's extraordinary how many people think we shouldn't be talking about it at all

because they find it all very boring, but it's too late now. We're in, John. We're here. It's nearly 11 o'clock

These two young people, and they got married and they were going to have a baby

Now, there was a person in that family, quite a senior person who was not around anymore

who referred to a certain nation as slit-eyed. no prizes at all

for remembering who that was and not to defend it in any way, shape or form

but it was a different age wasn't it John? yeah but look once said

once a pen, once written, moves on is that right? I don't know

that'll do, let's write that one down stick it on a t-shirt Keith carry on John

so I reckon that she might have been a little bit wary

at hearing this and knowing this you know, they are and, you know, you imagine, now you've got

two girls, haven't you, you imagine taking them to school one day and one of them has a slight

imperfection, not serious, and somebody makes a remark about it, you are

going to be really upset about that and so is your wife, because you don't want that mentioned, you don't want that

looked at. You mean, you know, I know you're not suggesting that, I know for a fact that

you're not suggesting ethnicity is an imperfection, but you're just talking about protecting your

children. No, but I'm talking about how people see people, seeing an imperfection

is one way, and I don't know, because I suffered that myself

but the fact is, this wasn't an imperfection, it's that that little boy or girl was going to be of a different colour

or slightly brown, and probably... And someone in the family, Andrew, probably

someone in the family made a comment about, I have no idea whether it was Andrew or not

the poor man has suffered enough. They decided that they didn't want the kids in that environment

I suppose now if that Lady Christian... Is that a fact? Yeah, yeah, yeah

She said that one of them had said, what colour is it, how dark is it actually going to be

And, you know, there was great gnashing of teeth and clutching of pearls at the time

Well, I think it's terrible, but you can do a phone-in on it and loads of white people will ring up

and tell you that that's absolutely perfectly acceptable to want to know exactly how dark it's on

Well, it would be acceptable if there was, you know... No racism in the world. If there were more coloured people in the royal family

then it wouldn't matter. And that was the great hope, wasn't it? Again, you know, for many people

even the word that you just used is very much of an age, of an era

But as we've already said, that is the way the world turns

Things move on. People of colour is the phrase that I grew up using

And you didn't. Here's another example, John. Carol wins granny war. Duke and Duchess of Cambridge

will spend second private Christmas with the Middleton family rather than joining the Queen at Sandringham

That's all right, isn't it? Because who here hasn't had a little bit of a battle over where we're going to go for Christmas

Is it our turn or is it the in-laws? Where are we going to go? Carol wins granny war

Duke and Dutch are the Cambridge. We shall spend second private Christmas with the Middleton family rather than joining the Queen at Sandringham

Same family? Same year, I think. That's quite extraordinary. I hadn't even clocked that

No, it's not. It's three years apart. Three years later. Doesn't the Queen deserve better than this baffling festive absence

Richard Kaye examines the impact of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's decision

not to spend Christmas with the royal family. Listen, the hour's almost up. I've only given you three

There's 20. There's 20 in this BuzzFeed article. I think they opened with the strongest examples

But whether it is the baby bump, the avocado, or the Christmas arrangements

isn't it absolutely incredible? it's absolutely incredible that two people from the same family doing

the same thing touching a baby bump enjoying an avocado or arguing over which

side of the family you're going to go to for Christmas can end up being treated

in such, I would say violently different ways by the by the media

again, Kate and Wills Inc. Duke and Duchess secretly set up companies to protect their brand

just like the Beckhams. Oh, that's nice. They're just like the Beckhams, aren't they? Same story, same family, same newspaper

A right royal cash-in. How Prince Harry and Meghan Markle trademarked over 100 items from hoodies to socks

six months before split with monarchy, with new empire worth up to £400 million

What do you think, John, they should do when they get here Well he gone He got the radio back on 10 is the time that was a bit unfair I think he thought that we had dispensed with his services

It's coming up to 10.58, you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC

The Mystery Hour on the way at 12. The conversation in the next hour will turn our attention to GCSEs

and some sort of gender imbalance that I'm keen to get to the bottom of

But a quick word before that on the story as we stay with our critique of right-wing media

that dominates the front of the Daily Mail today. Asylum seekers being issued with guidance on criminality, domestic abuse, rape, sex with children is illegal

The country that we live in, you and I, only outlawed the spousal rape

It only became a crime to rape your spouse in this country in 1991. Did you know that

absolutely extraordinary but i think the thing here is that you should welcome this pamphlet but

recognize that certain members of the media will use it to try to tar all asylum seekers with the

same brush and of course they'll use it to try to terrorize people asylum seekers are being told men

and women are equal and that domestic abuse and sex with children is illegal in home office

guiding on how to behave in britain is how the times puts it which is at least responsible ministers

is forced to tell asylum seekers don't rape women is what's on the front page of the Daily Mail

And if you're uncomfortable with it, you probably need to know about men like this. There's a bloke that I saw an interview with the other day

who described himself as absolutely a misogynist. He said, I'm a realist, and when you're a realist, you're sexist

There's no way you can be rooted in reality and not be sexist. He said that women were intrinsically lazy

He said there was no such thing as an independent female. um he well also talked about and in fact the bbc who were conducting the investigation

showed a text that he'd sent to one woman saying i love raping you he's claimed for example that

women should bear responsibility for being sexually assaulted and um and worse and and

currently stands accused of all sorts of crimes so this is why you need pamphlet what oh sorry

that's not an asylum seeker that's andrew tate described by nigel farridge as a very important

voice for young men in this country. I don't know how you can conduct a conversation

about this pamphlet without acknowledging what Andrew Tate has done to generations

of young men in this country, but apparently it's possible. It's 11 o'clock

James O'Brien on LBC. It is three minutes after 11, and you are listening to James O'Brien

on LBC. Apropos nothing in particular, although probably relevant to the last thing I said to you, I'd urge you to have a

little look at some research that's been undertaken at King's College London into, because I don't think this is a mystery sadly, I think we could probably name the people responsible

for this, the public in England and Wales being completely wrong about how many foreign national

offenders there are and if we were to return to the area of sexual offences then it was roughly

double with respondents believing that foreigners committed about 30% of all sexual offences in this

country when the real figure is 15 inexcusable and far too high don't don't get me wrong but

the really inexcusable figure is 100 which would encompass all sexual offenses committed by all

people um professor bobby duffy at king says there are two buckets of explanations for our

misperceptions how we think and what we're told so number one the queue for the ghost train will

always be longer than the queue for the speak your weight machine and of course number two lots of people pouring poison into your ears about foreigners in general and asylum seekers

in particular. Nigel Farage, who of course thinks that Andrew Tate is an important voice

for young men, has a role here probably because reform voters' perceptions were the most wrong

There's a phrase you can apply to any story under the sun, quite possibly. Reform voters

perceptions were the most wrong. They believe that 50% of all sexual offences in this country

were committed by foreign nationals. I wonder why, eh? Anyway, front page of the Mail today

talking about asylum seekers and sexual offences. Four minutes after 11 is the time

I've got a funny feeling that I haven't talked about stuff like this

because I was too close to the story. So when I started at LBC, I didn't have any children

And I remember listening to Nick, whose children are older than mine, when exam season came round and I was planning to do, for example

oh, aren't they much easier these days than they were when I were a lad

Which is a knee-jerk, absolutely stone-cold textbook, radio phone-in to have on the days that the results come out

I don't really remember how you would conduct it, do you? I say, yeah, of course I do

You could literally do. What sort of questions did you have to answer when you did maths O-level

and then compare them to what you need to know to get a nine in a math chip

But what an awful thing to do. I'm sure I've learned many, many, many other things from Nick Ferrari over the years

But the first thing I learned was don't do stuff like that. I mean, maybe don't ever do it, but certainly don't do it on results day

Don't come on air and start poo-pooing the results that these kids have worked for

over the course of the last couple of years. and that explained why I stopped doing it before I had children or before I had children of exam age

and then I stopped talking about it altogether really because I had a dog in the race I had skin

in the game we've just got over the final hurdle my youngest has now completed her a-levels happily

and successfully so I no longer feel um disloyal almost by having conversations

about exams. Not that there'd be anything disloyal about the question that I want to

ask you today. But I've never really got my head around the boy-girl element of it. I've never

really got my head around the fact that in an almost entirely co-educational country

where we generally accept that girls benefit from being taught alone, while boys benefit from having

girls in their classes. That is a conversation we've had over the years. But this is an almost

entirely co-educational education system. And girls have always done better at GCSE

I really like questions like this, because there must be answers. The thing about trends is that

if you track them properly, you can find movements that must have explanations. And I've been

careful on this so far to avoid looking at what the expert

explanations are because the experts are speculating I don't think this is a science

in the sense that you can add two and two together and come up with four

or put, I don't know, copper sulphate in a copper sulphate solution through a

piece of filter paper and get copper sulphate solution coming out the bottom

I don't know why this would be And there are two or three different moving parts this morning as the GCSE results are published Congratulations to everybody who has got what they wanted or more and commiserations to you if you haven and I will be for a moment the old bloke who says don worry don worry it is not the end of the world there are things that you can do and some of the doors that you think have closed to you may not even be doors that you look back on and wish you could have gone through

I speak as someone who did all right in these exams, but managed to fail his first year at university

And just about old enough and mature enough now not to smile, while I say that, at the memory of what I was doing instead

So you can stumble and you can fall in your educational career

but you are never as out of it as you think you might be on mornings like this if things haven't gone as well as you hoped. so

girls are falling girls are still ahead of boys on GCSEs

but their lead over the top GCSE grades has narrowed to the

smallest on record at A level boys have widened the gap over

girls so on both of these metrics GCSE and A-level the boys are rising

and the girls are falling and I just want you to tell me why

0345 6060973 the numbers are not enormous but the trends are now well established

boys this year achieved more top grades or more boys achieved top grades

than at any time except during the pandemic when everything went a little bit doolally

but the idea that girls always have and always will do better than boys and exams is over

when you get to a level it's not even true now and when you're looking at gcse's the direction

of traffic for a long time since 2019 has been against what we traditionally and historically

expect so why now you're on holiday at the moment aren't you teachers so you can ring in and tell me

this could be good news, right? It could be that our system was somehow skewed against boys. It

could have been that boys were not being properly accommodated, that perhaps diagnoses of neurodiversity

conditions like ADHD have helped boys more than they have helped girls, because the incidence of

the conditions is higher among boys. I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. There could be a million

different reasons why this has happened. I don't know whether girls suffered more as a consequence

of lockdowns, whether the impact on their mental health or the negatives of

social media land differently with girls than they do with boys. As we touched on at the end of the last hour, boys

who've been corrupted by social media have been seduced into misogyny and sexual violence

and all of the other things that Andrew Tate represents and Nigel

Farage thinks is an important voice for young men in this country. But

girls have had an altogether different thing. They haven't really been encouraged to be

nastier. They've been encouraged perhaps to be more frightened, to be more scared

Would that, do you think, have an impact? There are, as often is the case on this programme

two ways into this. You can look at the young people in your life, whoever they may be

and tell me why you think boys are getting better at exams

and girls are getting worse. 0345 6060 973. Listen, I've got an E in my AO level statistics

so I may have already misrepresented the statistics here. I mean, the gaps are getting smaller

and therefore you could portray it as girls still doing really well

and boys catching up. But that is also interesting. Why are the grades of boys going up

much faster than the grades of girls? What is it about our education system

which we often see as a little bit too feminine? I don't personally

but I've heard an awful lot of people opine upon the paucity

of male teachers in primary schools for example and the lack of male role models

and the feminisation therefore of the education system I never really bought it myself

but I've certainly listened to it a lot and this would appear to offer

proof to the contrary this would certainly offer evidence that that cannot possibly be true

so boys on the one hand doing better, girls, on the other hand

not necessarily doing worse, but possibly staying the same. Boys are improving more than girls

in the British education system. And I can't, apart from the suggestions

that I've made to you already, I want you to tell me why. It's 13 after 11

The number you need, as ever, is 0345 6060973. And, as I say

either look at the young people you know and try and extrapolate an answer to these questions

from your observations of them, or do what I do, because I don't have sons, obviously

And, well, not obviously. You might have tuned into this radio programme for the very first time today

It's obvious to me that I don't have sons, because there aren't any there when I go home after the show

It's not necessarily obvious to you, but I can't make a comparison in the context of my own household

Maybe you can. But for the rest of us, you step back from this

and you look at an upward gradient for boys and it is either steeper than the one for girls

or the one for girls is level or downward, it kind of flies in the face with most of the things

we've been told about education in this country for the last 20 years. So what is actually going on

Why are boys catching up with girls? 0345 6060 973 is the number

that you need. I'm experimenting at the moment. I don't know whether you've noticed. It was Keith's

idea. I think it's working. I'm not looking at texts and WhatsApps until I get to the break

And then I select my favorites and tee them up to share with you a little bit later in the program

But I am, however, about to embark upon a very exciting new feature on the show. I'm going to do

Missing Word Round Deluxe Edition. This is the Missing Word Round Deluxe Edition. It's not in a

No, Keith. So there's a missing word round. But when we do the reveal, when we reveal what the missing word is

we will then play some audio. So this is the missing word round, deluxe edition

I'm not going to do that until you've called me about the boy-girl question regarding GCSEs and A-levels

So they've already overtaken girls on A-levels. So what happens there as well

What happens from GCSE to A-level? Why are boys overtaking girls at A-levels

Why have boys overtaken girls at A-levels while they've been lagging behind them forever

at GCSE level. What happens in sixth form that gives boys a boost

03456060973 is the number you need. But here is the Missing Word Round Deluxe Edition, episode one

Are you ready? Are you ready? Okay. Man calls 999 after buying blank by mistake

Man calls 999 after buying blank by mistake. By mistake, we'll do the reveal on that and we'll play some hilarious audio shortly

But before any of that, I need you to tell me why boys are catching girls up in our education system

And why, if you want to get really technical, they actually now have overtaken them in sixth form

So surging ahead is the word that one newspaper used to describe male students

overtaking female students for the second consecutive year. What's happened? What is happening and what has happened

0345 6060 973. It's 11.16. James O'Brien on LBC. It is 11.17. Don't ring in on missing word rounds, honestly

I'll just clog up my switchboard. And you can text in, of course, but I'll only have a look during the break

That's why I saw Tess's. The missing word is either gun or tiger, says Tess

No, it's not. What is it? We'll find out shortly. But the question on boys and girls, listen, there's going to be a lot going on here

and it's going to have a lot to do with something that's changing in our society

For good or for ill, I don't know whether this is good news or bad news. If you cast it as boys catching up with girls while girls continue to do brilliantly, then it's good news

If you cast it as boys overtaking girls, which is what's happened at A-level already

and catching up with them rapidly at GCSE, that's probably bad news, isn't it

I mean, in an ideal world, we'd have parity, equity, equality. I don't know

Ivor is in Tamworth. Ivor, what can you tell me? Morning. Well, I started teaching in the days of GCSE

I mean, sorry, of O-level and CSE. Fair enough. And in those days, boys always did better than girls all the time

O-level. Oh, yes. O-level and A-level, yeah. Boys were well ahead. and um that would have been i mean i'm not casting you as a sort of dickensian character either but

but the opportunities would have explained that more opportunities and therefore expectations for

men whereas the job opportunities for women i bought in 1972 i was the last cohort to sit o

levels in 1987 so i can understand why that would have been then and then it turned around didn't it

Yeah, it turned around because of GCSE. Well, they combined the two to make GCSE

Yeah. And they also brought in the element of coursework. Ah. And girls did better in coursework than boys

They were more meticulous in their coursework. Boys would throw it together

and girls would take their time over it, repeat it, go over it, things like that, you know

And so some courses, like sciences, it was 20% coursework. Right. You could get even some English language GCSEs

at 100% coursework. And that meant the girls' elements... This is one of the reasons they brought out GCSE

was to help encourage girls to move forward. I didn't know that

Yeah, that was... Probably because I was at an all-boys school. Yeah, so was I, years ago, yeah

However, over the years, and girls got better and better at coursework

the boys kept the same. It was hard to get boys to complete coursework properly

Okay. And so when Govey came along, and he took us back into the academic side

like I did at my grammar school. Right. He took out of the coursework

Well, not just academic. Academic's not quite the right word. Do you mean the exam-based? The exam-based academic, yeah

Yeah. So he took out coursework at GCSE and A-level, which really..

I think this is your experience, albeit in an all-boys school, but I..

No, no, I've taught in many schools. Oh, you have? I went to an all-boys school. Because I was reading, I was trying to find that letter yesterday

I can't remember why, that Boris Johnson's teacher sent to his dad about him

not respecting the network of obligations that bind us all. And there's another bit in it, actually, where it talks about

he does very well in scenarios where intelligence is more important than having done any hard work

And that has always felt to me, and I hope I don't get attacked for this

that's always felt to me like quite a male trait. I can't think of many women who are good at blagging

and, you know, using raw intelligence to get through scenarios where hard work

would have made their situation even better, but they looked back and didn't need it

And this is kind of a variation on that, isn't it? However, I have taught in an all-girls school

Oh, yeah. And just down there, it was the all-boys school, the matching school, so it was the same parents

same cohort, you know, and all that, etc. And our box at the girls' school

were 10% to 50% above the boys' school at our level, at GCSE level

At GCSE, after the coursework was brought in. So you can see this graph tracking government policy

Yeah, that's right, yeah. Coursework, what did we call it when I was... Continuous assessment, they called it

That was right, yeah. Continuous assessment rewards girls. You take that away, and the boys surge ahead again

Yeah, yeah. Because there's stress on the exams. and boys aren't so bothered

whereas girls get stressed and worried about it and can lose marks quite easily

And that will be exacerbated by the worsening mental health that we hear about

with more and more girls particularly being diagnosed with problems since the coronavirus pandemic

Yeah, yes, yeah. Well, I mean, I've taught some girls in a girls' school

and they get stressed, shall we say. Yeah. Really stressed. This would be for COVID, of course

If I put you in charge, what would you do? Because in an ideal way... would have a balance, wouldn't we

And the results would be more or less interchangeable. See, I would now bring some element of coursework back

See, Govid thought we're all getting cheated. Let's not call him Govid. Let's not call him Govid

It's too affectionate. Let's call him Govid. Nice one. Govid, he believed we were cheating

And the only way to stop you at cheating is to get you in the exam hall and have the invigilator walking up and down

and it doesn't assess all of your knowledge, skills and understanding really. Of course it doesn't

What if you have a panic? What if you just have a nightmare on the day and that's a whole year

of work? You freeze and you don't look at the next question

It took me a long time to understand how unfair this is because I benefited

from the unfairness as it were but goodness me it's patently obvious

So you'd just bring back elements of continuous assessment? Yeah I would yes

and we'd see things and what you'd do, you'd bring it back incrementally

Ivor, until results were equal and then you'd leave it yeah, that's right, yeah, until the boys have learned to

do a bit more work throughout the course of the year yeah, exactly that

and you'd strike out a balance between the exam performance and the year long performance

or the entire course performance I love that, thank you Ivor 24 minutes after 11 is the time

looking at exam results and the gap between boys and girls, narrowing on GCSEs to the smallest on record

but returning, under Ivor's ysis, to pre-GCSE standards when it comes to A-level

And this would be down to some of the enthusiasms of the former Education Secretary, Michael Gove

most obviously sticking everything on an exam, which I used to love

I used to love it. But now with the benefit of a little bit of objectivity I can see that it a grossly unfair system It would be equally unfair not to reward people who can turn it on an exam in some way so what do you do as iva says you have

a balance uh what about in the classroom is there anything going on in the actual classroom

that explains what we're seeing in the broader trends today fran's in crouch end fran what would

you like to say hi yeah i'm a teacher of um yeah no i'm a teacher and what i've noticed in my

current school is that we often have departmental policies aimed at boys only

so we often try to reduce the gap between girls and boys as part of our kind of school-based policies

And I think that gives a disproportionate representation towards boys over girls

Is it the squeaky wheel gets the most oil? Yes, and it often leads to girls

being neglected, basically, because it's assumed that they will achieve as they historically have in the past

Gosh. Yes. So, I think that could partially account for it if other schools adopt similar policies

I mean, here's the thing, though, as well. So a boy, that's what I mean by the squeaky wheel

A boy who draws attention and extra help, if you like, or care is likely to be disruptive

Whereas, and we're generalising a lot today, but I hope not irresponsibly

whereas a girl who is suffering is perhaps more likely to be silent

Yes. So a girl who would benefit from help with her nerves

with mental health, with whatever it may be, is not going to be drawing attention to herself in anything like the same way that a boy who needs help is

Absolutely. And I think my school is quite boy heavy. So it's often the case that the behaviour is poor

Well, worse for boys, typically, that's what we experience. And the girls are just quieter

So it probably contributes, like you said, to a lack of support, lack of interest in them over the boys

And the targeting of boys. What about Ivor's theories with regard to..

Because I don't think continuous assessment has been entirely eradicated. It still exists in A-levels and GCSEs

I think it depends slightly on what exam board it is. But the idea that continuous assessment favours female students

and the exam-based system favours male students. Does that chime with you

Potentially. You can say no. There's no rule against it. Ivor's not, he's not the Pope

Well, it's hard to say, I think. Yeah, I guess it is. It makes sense to me

but then I've always been obsessed with this because of the way in which the system

that favoured people like me was torn up in the year that I was smack in the middle of it

and replaced with a system that I found much harder. I found continuous assessment much harder

than all in on exam day. Is this what they call reducing the tail

Yes, so it's basically getting boys up to the same level as girls

which I do think does contribute to the disparity especially in my school that we see

Yes, well it must do, mustn't it? Because it means that girls are not getting pushed

or promoted in the same way that the boys are. So I don't know what, I mean, is it a level

Would it be if we had an entirely level playing field would the results be level? Oh well

No, we'll never know. We'll find out. We'll never know. We could conduct an experiment, I suppose

Me and Eleanor could sit an exam and have our results combined

It is 28 minutes after 11. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC

Male students have surged ahead in achieving A-star and A grades for the second consecutive year

while at GCSE level, a girl's share of top grades has declined to its lowest level since 2019

I want some parents now as well, not just teachers, but both retired and current

But why do you think as a parent this is happening, especially if you can actually see it through the lens of your own son and daughter

why would a country where we're often told i think wrongly that uh the education system has

become too feminized or or that that girls are getting too much attention why on earth

are we looking at a situation that depicts the polar opposite of that where boys are performing

better and girls are either stagnating or or performing worse the share of top grades has

declined to its lowest since 2019. That's share of top grades. So, you know, the number of top

grades might have stayed the same. It's the allocation of those grades between boys and

girls that have seen girls get the lowest share. Does that count as a decline? I mean, technically

would you say that mean girls? It does, doesn't it, if you're getting... I mean, they're doing worse

compared to boys, but does it mean they're doing worse compared to girls from previous generations

this is precisely the sort of thing that I should have studied

in my AO level statistics in 1988 which I had to sit

because I did a GCSE in maths in 1987 I may have mentioned this before

and no one told me that that didn't mean I could give up maths when I came back the following year

because legally you have to be taught maths until the age of 16 so doing like a clever clogs

everyone at my school did it I wasn't special being like being a massive clever clogs

I did a GCSE in maths and came back in 1988 to be told

oh no, you still have to do maths. You have to do an AO level now. And you can do statistics if you want

I have no idea what it is. Didn't know then. Don't know now. Got an E. If I'd paid attention, I'd be able to tell you

whether or not girls have done better compared to girls in previous years

as opposed to what I can tell you, which is that they've done worse

compared to boys in previous years. It's half past 11. Here's Dominic Ellis

Oh, don't forget after this, the new deluxe Missing Word Round. After Dominic Ellis brings you the headline

James O'Brien on LBC. 33 minutes after 11. OK, I don't do guarantees on the programme usually

except during Mystery Hour, but this should make you at least smile. The Mystery Word Round, a lot of you cheated

Apparently it's on the LBC website, which probably makes it quite easy to work out what the Missing Word Round is

But, special treat for you, this is a deluxe edition of the Missing Word Round

that features audio. Man calls 999 after buying blank by mistake. Man calls 999 after buying blank by mistake

The answer is... Alcohol-free gin. Who had an immediate sense of sympathy for the poor fella at that point

You might need help. Man calls 999 after buying alcohol-free gin by mistake

You think I'm making this up? You think I'm making this up? I'm going over the park. It's nice and cool and sitting in shade

and I look at it, it's zero alcohol. And I just brought it back

It says, you've already drank one. And I says, OK, I'll pay for that one

and can I exchange the other ones It cost me OK so this is not a police matter You need to take that with a test guys That not a police matter No because I really

angry, so I'll get arrested. Because I'll think... Why will you get arrested

Because I'm not having it. I've just paid him £6 for non-alcoholic

gin and tonic. Be kind. 25 minutes to 12 is the time

Benson is in Milton Keynes to steer us back to the changing nature of exam results and the changing relationship between the results of

boys and the results of girls what's going on benson well i've just got us that we're doing

with young people that are excluded from mainstream school will that be a big enough

factor to explain national trends do you think well it's it's showing a 60 plus percent increase

over the last few years of young people being excluded permanently and of that boys are twice

more likely to be excluded permanently. And two-thirds of young people in state-funded alternative provisions are boys

And with that, if those statistics aren't factored into the exam results, which my experience is that they're not..

So the boys, the children who've been excluded don't get counted in the exam results

So therefore, the exclusions, if they are enough of them because percentages aren't totals

would improve the boys' performance because there's more people who are likely to do badly

being removed from the mix, being removed from the tally. Absolutely, and the success rate of young people

going into alternative provision and then sitting their GCSEs is extremely low, unfortunately

because they're fully disengaged from the education system by the time they go into an alternative provision

So it's more punishment than education when kids tend to go into these alternative provisions

It's not a great fine line, but I want to hear that word. It's more what than education? It's more risk management

Yeah, it's a containment, as it were. Yeah, they're at much higher risk of criminal exploitation, sexual exploitation

This is a built country on a high scale. And I'm just interested when I heard your stats

I'm driving to Secure Training Centre in Milton Keynes today to see some young people on long sentences who are secondary age

We work with these young people. And as that example, there's 46 young people in there right now

Three of them are girls, 43 are boys as a proportion. and they have 25 hours education in there a week

but the education is very basic and therefore I'd be amazed to ask

how many of them actually got exam results when I'm in there in a couple of hours time. Yeah, I could talk to you more about this

and in fact I would like to talk to you more about this but the phone line is fading fast

and of course neither of us know how significant the numbers will be

or how big an impact these numbers will be albeit that the percentages are rocketing

whether or not the totals are big enough to have the kind of impact

that you're talking about. I suppose on a school-by-school basis it would do

if it was a particularly difficult school and it had a particularly high number of exclusions

but I wouldn't have thought we were taking enough kids out of the system to impact upon gender-based results comparisons

It's 11.38. Heaven help that chap. If you missed the last five minutes of the show

this won't make any sense to you and I'm not going to explain it. Heaven help that chap. if he ever buys a tub of I can't believe it's not butter

Angela's in Waltham State. Angela, what would you like to say? Morning, James. You didn't have to say that just as I was about to talk

I can't help chuckling about that. There's nothing wrong with a chuckle, Angela. So what I wanted to really point out, James

I'm not... I am... Sorry, I know you didn't want any more teachers... I never said that

When I say let's get some parents on as well, it doesn't mean don't ring me..

Well, anyway, you rung me anyway, so it doesn't... I've rung anyway, so I'm here now. Well, I teach A-levels

but I want to talk about the concepts of when you're teaching generally. So in a lesson, as a teacher, you're told that you're meant to have adaptive learning

or differentiation, as it used to be called, and you should be able to direct your learning to all the different levels

and they should all be at the same place. However, when it gets to the exam, for GCSEs or A-level

that's not really the same situation. And you know the BTEC subjects where the students do a combination of exams and coursework

That really, to me, is a real indicative way of the way life goes

If you go to the workplace, you're not going to have to learn something for two years

and then remember how to do it at the end of a certain time. You do things in stages

And unfortunately, the subject like BTEC, the qualification like BTEC, are really kind of like frowned upon because people see it as a lower level, etc

And it's got to be something that's academic. But the BTEC really covers, to me, all levels of different styles of learning

If you're strong at exams, you get to do exams of part way. If you're strong at coursework, you get the coursework element

And, you know, with any kind of qualification, it's the vigour of assessment that's important

not what you're doing. This is interesting, and forgive me if I'm missing the point

What's it got to do with the boy versus girl question? Because if you're doing a combination of exams and coursework

both learners are going to actually meet in the middle, because if you're boys and you do well at exams

then you've got that exam content to actually perform in, and then the two ways of being assessed are averaged

and you get your overall grade. So it just means that if a girl performs better at coursework

she's going to do that coursework a lot better. So you, like Ivor, you think that if we could turn this into an algorithm

then literally with two dials on it and two lines, and the job is to get the lines to be level

so that they're superimposed on top of each other. One dial is exams, one dial is coursework

You just fiddle with these two dials until the lines are aligned

Yeah, 100%. That's really interesting. And of course, I mean, we generalise

because of course I'm getting lots of messages from women who excel in an exam scenario

and from men who prefer continuous assessment, but that doesn't spoil our thesis, I don't think

No, because then if you allow assessment to cover both, You're hitting both ways of actually, of achievement

I'll take you back, if I may, to the idea of, I can't remember what you called it, teaching..

Adaptive learning. Adaptive learning. I've always wondered about that, because every school I went to streamed quite violently

From quite an early age, we were put into A stream, B stream, C stream, D stream

which is the opposite of adaptive learning. Yeah, yeah. What works best

As a teacher, I just thought that it was much harder to teach a mixed ability class than a class where everybody was more or less the same, surely

It is, but in most state schools, that's what you've got, you've got a mixed bag of students

And you need to make sure you can't just think, oh I'll teach to the higher level and the lower level will be able to reach that level

You've got to be able to pitch it, that you're actually addressing everybody

The amount of times we've tried to work out why private education or private schools perform better than state schools, generally, not always, obviously

And I don't know if I've ever picked up, because everyone usually talk about small class sizes, and that's obviously part of it, because you get more attention

But streaming must be a huge... Grammar schools generally stream, don't they? But comprehensive, I think that's where the word comes from

It does and also James many people that are in the comprehensive system don have tutors after school as well No of course not So you got to think of what that teacher achieves with all the other things thrown into the mix It a lot harder than actually just having your students

that you expect to get the A stars and A's where you've got the mixture of the A star to the E or the U

Yeah, and there it is. I mean, there is perhaps the reason why

elements of the comprehensive school experiment were misguided because if you want every child to perform to the very best of their ability

then you want the teacher to be meeting the very most of their needs. And the teacher can't

because if you're teaching an A-star student and a U student, and also you're going to concentrate more

you're going to get more kudos from your head teacher for the A-star than you are for getting a U student up to an E

Exactly, which is the harder thing to do. Of course it's the harder thing to do. I've understood that bit for years, but not the other bit

I'm so flippin' extreme, absent from all of the conversations I've ever had about this

And because it was just second nature to me that that's what happens in schools

but of course it isn't what happens in most schools No, and if you stream

in mainstream, you've actually put in the mind of the person in the lower stream

that I'm a lower trainer I know, and that's again taking the words out of my mouth

stigma was the reason why it was undone, I'd have to talk to some of the lads I was at school with

to work out what they felt about being put in lower streams, but they've all done very well

they've all excelled not all of them, but certainly as I've mentioned a few times in the

past, the kids that have become professionals, white-collar professionals, even white-coat professionals, who

were not in A-stream, and they were taught aspiration and ambition and obviously what they needed to be taught to get

the results, that they needed to do what they wanted to do. So I don't know how

heavy the stigma lands. If you're forgotten, it's 11-plus territory, isn't it

You fail the 11-plus, and you're sort of being told that you're on the

second division intellectually for the rest of your life. So I understand why the

comprehensive school system was brought in, And I've got a horrible feeling that as I sit here extolling the virtues of streaming

I'm beginning to sound like Michael Gove again. And nobody wants that, least of all me

Angela, you're a star. Thank you so much. It is just coming up to quarter to 12

We're going to have one of our regular catch-ups with Noga Tarnopolski next

because there are quite a few things going on in Israel and beyond

that deserve wider coverage. coverage that you don't always or at least that isn't always as prominent

as perhaps it should be but we do our bit to ensure that you get to know as much

as you can about these kind of issues there's one that you'll remember the little

girl who was in a car when members of her family were killed

and sought to summon help staying on the phone for some time and

ending up being killed herself there is a I mean, frankly, harrowing is the word I'd use

There's a harrowing development in that story that we'll be looking at shortly

I'm talking, of course, of Hind Rajab, whose name probably should be slightly better known

in this country than it is. James O'Brien on LBC. 11.48 is the time

It's not only hard, of course, to separate stories. It is dangerous and inappropriate

we had to introduce any form of hierarchy when it comes to tragedy and death

But there was something about the killing of Hindra Jab that moved many people

even more than other stories of children dying, both on October the 7th

And, of course, subsequently, it was in Gaza in 2024 that she was killed along with six relatives

but only after initially surviving the attack, answering a telephone call during which she pleaded for help

And then, after an ambulance sent to reach her was shelled, her body was recovered days later

The wheels move slowly, Noga Tarnopolski, on stories like this. I don't think we should read too much into the two years that have passed since Hinn's death

But tell us what happened yesterday, if you can. And hello. Hi, James

Yes, yesterday, after what does feel like a very long time, the internal mechanism of the Israeli army that does what are preliminary checks on events that are considered possibly against orders, possibly illegal

finally came through with a report on several of the most infamous events

that took place at the hands of Israeli soldiers since October 7th

The case of Hind Rajab, a five-year-old girl, is one of the most famous

The other one, which similarly to the Rajab family case, has been referred for criminal investigation

is also one, if I'm not mistaken, that you and I spoke about. James, it has to do with the killing by an elite Israeli army unit of 15 unarmed health workers, paramedics in Gaza, which was then extensively covered up by the Israeli army

So on the one hand, I could tell as a journalist who covers these matters here, I was glad to get this report yesterday

I think that we'll see, for example, the organization called Doctors Without Borders is probably going to appeal these results

There's a mechanism to appeal because two cases in which their convoys were hit by Israeli fire, much like the case of the World Central Kitchen convoy that was hit

And these are cases where the Israeli army immediately said we screwed up, we made a mistake

Those have not been referred to criminal prosecution. But the heartbreaking story of Hindra Jab, obviously a very resourceful, very brave little girl of five who survived the massacre of her family, who were trying to flee in the family car from war

and there's an added kind of torturous detail here, which is that the Israeli army gave permission for paramedics to reach her

That had been coordinated by the Palestinian Red Crescent, if I'm not mistaken

but it was coordinated with the Israeli army. And as soon as the paramedics arrived, they were targeted and she was and killed

And those bodies, her body, weren't recovered then for 12 days, Although that's the least of this story. So the case of the paramedics, who I still don't know what happened, but apparently they were basically taken out of their ambulances, put in a row, executed by elite, an elite unit of Israeli soldiers, a sort of Israeli Abu Ghraib

and then their bodies and their vehicles were buried under false dunes

massive sand dunes created by Israeli military vehicles to cover it up

I still remember, James, that initially I was hearing out of Gaza

we don't know what happened, these people disappeared. They were unarmed, they were driving in such direction towards Rafah in southern Gaza

The initial reports were they're gone. It was extremely, Extremely mysterious and extremely frustrating

I found myself at the time in a position of repeating what the Israeli army was saying initially

which was basically we have no idea and we were not operating there

Crucially, we were not operating there for days before I had to go on there and say that was all a lie

So both of these cases are very alive in my mind. And I hope that now that they've been referred for criminal investigation

Again, within internal military structures, I hope that this will be a serious and thorough investigation

I hope we'll find out what happened, especially I hope we find out if any commanders just went rogue in those very heavy days of war

And I hope that there will be consequences. Yeah, hope. Not confident necessarily

Right. Okay, that's fine, just to clarify. This was the story, if I remember, that we would never have found out the detail of if it wasn't for the discovery of a mobile phone on which some footage had been filmed in the pocket of one of the victims

Or am I getting confused with another alleged atrocity? No, that's right. One of the paramedics had kind of a GoPro camera on his chest

That, of course, could only be found out once their bodies were found

And again, they were buried with their ambulances, with their vehicles under what appeared to be kind of sand mountains created by Israeli army earth movers

So this took several weeks. But at one point, I think there had been one survivor of there were originally six paramedics that one managed to escape

And he knew that there was supposed to be a camera on the bodies of one of them

And in fact, there was. So we, at this point, when the bodies were uncovered and their vehicles that had been crushed by Israeli bulldozers were uncovered from under the sand

by this point it was pretty clear what had happened. But it's true that seeing those GoPro images that were recovered did give an entirely new dimension to the tragedy

To more recent events now, Noga, and the relatively new foreign secretary, UK foreign secretary, Ed Miliband

has this morning condemned the publication of a tender as an unacceptable and destructive act

It is a tender for the construction of 1,200 so-called settlement homes

in the occupied West Bank, so illegal settlements. And the government stands accused this morning

of seeking to end any chance of a Palestinian state by pressing on with projects like this

It would be popular in Israel, though. I don't think so, actually. Remember

No, because the settlers as a whole, many of whom are not extremists, many of whom kind of moved to a suburb that the government was giving them some tax benefits to move to in the last 50 years, they don't like these extremist acts because it puts their own lives at stake

But certainly Israelis, the vast majority of Israelis who live within the legal frontiers of the country, don't feel represented by this

The government has gotten into trouble on all levels. But if you let me, James, I want to take a step back because we're seeing a particularly, I would say, a particular kind of dance taking place right now with this E1 tenders

We're talking about 1,200 living units, so let's say flats. So we're talking about a few buildings being built

Now, the deadline to submit proposals, let's say contractors submitting proposals to build these buildings

which would then have to undergo a many months-long process of evaluation

the deadline is, if I'm not mistaken, on the 19th of October

pay close attention to the date because the elections in israel are on the 27th of october

so a week later i think that this tender was made public yesterday for two reasons

one reason is to drum up international outrage and it has succeeded absolutely succeeded the uk

France, I think possibly even an American official made a comment. And the reason that people are outraged is double

One is that in the Oslo courts, which the international community service guarantors and Israel, let's remember, are signatories

In the Oslo courts, this area is designated Palestinian lands, full stop

part of the future Palestinian state and today part of Palestinian Authority state

And so both sides, both the sides that are trying to stop this

and the side that are trying to stop the establishment forever of a Palestinian nation

including the Prime Minister of the State of Israel, have an interest in drumming up this kind of emergency feeling that if this tender goes through

then that's it. There can never be a Palestinian state. So first thing I'd like to do is just

debunk that. If many ifs, if this process proceeds, if buildings are proposed and approved and ever

constructed, we already have seen, you and I and the rest of the world, that the Israeli army is

pretty good at tearing down buildings. We're talking about a number of buildings. And if a

If a future Israeli government ever came to an agreement with a Palestinian government, these buildings could be torn down in an hour

So the feeling of sort of stranglehold, that if this goes through, there could never be a Palestinian state, serves political interests, but I really think it doesn't serve the public

But what we are seeing is really a drastic effort by the Israeli government, by its most extremist elements

And here I am, including the prime minister, who has not condemned this, who has not stopped this

Of course, he could have stopped this tender going through to do two things

One, to tell their base that they're moving ahead with an ethnic transfer project in the West Bank that will result in the impossibility forever of there being a Palestinian state

That is the bill of goods that's being sold to the most extremist, most ignorant in many ways, voting bloc that Netanyahu and his finance minister, Batsala Smotrich, desperately need to keep on track

I'm underscoring this because it's so dangerous. These voters have been promised something that is not possible

They've been promised to make a state impossible. That's incredibly illuminating. It really is

And so they're the ones that many Israelis fear will become violent

when that whole project, their project of taking over what's been called parts

Disculptment or undone, yes. And speaking of the extremist elements of the government

I just want to take you back a couple of days to something that I personally had to read at least three times

before I'd got my head properly around it. The National Security Minister, another far-right member of that cabinet

Itamar Ben-Gavir, has said on the record that Israeli forces should kill 30 or 40 people in Gaza every night and not even pretended that he means people who pose a danger He said that those killings should go beyond those who pose a danger at that

particular moment, which I presume is designed to appeal pretty much to the same base

I presume so too, but again, in order to describe to you what's happening in Israel, right

you know this guy has been convicted more than a dozen times of hate crimes and terror

He's the first minister in the history of the state of Israel who was appointed minister with

terror convictions under his belt. He's a racial supremacist. The fact that Prime Minister Netanyahu

was allowed during the first part of this term in office, certainly throughout 2023

to continue representing Israel around the world, to meet with world leaders

to continue to operate as if he were a regular democratically elected official

and not one who had appointed elements of the Ku Klux Klan to sit in the most powerful ministries of his government

is an issue. And we're now coming to the end of that term, three and a half years later

And we have a guy who tosses out recommendations for mass murder as if these were like sweets

He's handing out children. The prime minister hasn't condemned this. The country that has come closest to really reacting in a way that I think is coherent with the horror of what Itamar Benvir said is, interestingly, Germany

The deputy foreign minister said he believes Israel should be sanctioned. Ben Weir personally in Israel should be sanctioned for this

Again, the government has not distanced himself from what Ben Weir said

and neither is the prime minister. And the German ministers went further and said

that Germany cannot abide with any talk of racial superiority. This, of course, was aimed directly at the heart

of the so-called right-wing nationalist Israeli government, but it's gotten no response at all

Extraordinary, and I suspect that we'll be exploring similar territory together as that election

Liam's ever closer. Noga, thank you once again for your insights and reporting

Noga Tarnopolsky, they're live from Jerusalem, a freelance reporter, helping us look at three stories, well, more than three if you count the alleged atrocities

that have now been passed on for criminal investigation, but also the tenders for illegal settlements

and finally the still-sitting national security minister calling for entirely innocent people in Gaza to be shot

30 or 40 of them every night. It is three minutes after 12

You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. Talk about a crunch and gear change

but no one can argue with the calendar or indeed the clock. It's Mystery Hour next

James O'Brien on LBC. Seven minutes after 12. A tiny little bit late, but I'm pretty sure you'll agree that the conversation we were having with Noga merited the delay

Descrately important. It is, however, time for a much lighter moment together

It is time for your weekly opportunity to achieve the sort of satisfaction not ordinarily available anywhere else on your radio

It is a time for resolution. resolution it's a time to solve riddles to uh address conundrums to bring enlightenment and joy

into the darkest corners of our confusions and miscomprehensions it is a radio phone in that

essentially involves you ringing in with a question and someone else ringing in with an

answer and copyright that keith don't let anybody nick it that's just that is just incredible

imaginative production. Don't mention the fact that I almost certainly nicked it off somebody else back in the day

And when I say back in the day, boy, do I mean back in the day. We've been doing this for about 111 years now

Seriously, there's a full Mystery Hour archive available at Global Player. All I'd say to you, if you're new to this

obviously the first thing I'd say to you is that you're in for a bit of a treat, and that there are phone lines free

often when it's a normal segment immediately before the 12 noon news

then everybody queues up and tries to grab early places. It doesn't help, you know, if the question's rubbish

you still won't get on. Just being first in the queue doesn't help at all if the question is not up to sniff

But if we do something like we did just before the 12 noon news now, then actually you've got your better chance

a best chance of getting through to the programme because it's kind of taken us all by surprise, Mystery Hour

So two phone lines currently free. They could be yours if you're quick, 03456060973

Any question, the only rules are really in the eye the person who picks up the phone

If it sounds a bit dull or if you're unnecessarily aggressive, you probably won't get on

But if it sounds interesting or we think that there's likely to be an illuminating answer

you probably will. I don't generally like motoring questions, but that's moving with the times, isn't it

That prejudice of mine. Arguably, we did a motoring conversation yesterday. I didn't technically think it was motoring

but we often find ourselves on Mystery Hour. But don't ask, like, really boring questions like

why do I get more miles to the or there's a roundabout exit near me

and you're not allowed to drive down that exit where does it lead do you know what I mean

do you know what I mean I hope you know what I mean if you don't know what I mean

you're probably going to be embarrassed when you ring in and then you hear someone else ask

a question to which you know the answer this is probably well it's a

genuine chicken and egg situation this because I was about to ask you

what's more important to Mystery Hour the question or the answer. But you can't answer that, can you

That's the question. What's more important? Because if you've got loads of questions

but no answers, it would be rubbish. You can't have answers without questions, though, James

So answers are more important because... Oh, no, questions are more important

because you can't have answers without questions. Yeah, but if we don't get any answers

what's the point of asking all the questions? Oh, questions are more important. That is a genuine chicken and egg scenario, isn't it

What's more important? The question or the answer? Not what comes first, the question or the answer

That would be obvious. But what's more important? Or what's more intrinsic to the joys of Mystery Hour

The questions or the answers? Ah, who knows? I suppose me is the short answer to that question

as Keith very generously suggested. 11 minutes, what is the most magical element of Mystery Hour

Oh, hello. It's 11 minutes after 12. Stop it. You're listening to James O'Brien

on LBC, where Mystery Hour is a pause. If you've no idea what I'm talking about

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And that, I think, pretty much covers it. 12 minutes after 12 is the time. One phone note, Michelle's just grabbed it, but as soon as there are phone lines free, I will tell you

And let Mystery Hour commence. Danny is in Ilford. Danny, question or answer

Hello, James. Firstly, can I just say it's an honour to talk to you. It's not. Keith talks to me every single day

and he doesn't feel even a tiny scintilla. He hates every second of it

But I am touched by your kindness. I worship the ground you walk on, truly

That's ridiculous. Carry on, Danny. Get on. Thank you for creating Mystery Hour

And I've been a listener to LBC since 1973 and this is the first time I've called in

Oh, well, that is it. That's what we're here for. to finally tempt you over the wire

Just remind, don't forget to leave your address with Eleanor so I can send you the check that we agreed on

when I saw you in the pub last night. Carry on, then. Agreed

Okay, great. The question is inspired by the recent heat waves. Yes

So, human body temperature is around 37 degrees. So why was it last week I was struggling

when it was 37 degrees outside? Doesn't make sense. Yeah, I mean, it does

That's the official figure, is it, for a human, but 37 degrees

Yeah, yeah, yeah, average. And then, theoretically, if it was the same outside as inside

you should be in a state of equilibrium. Yes, equilibrium, that's the word. You were absolutely steaming

Yeah, and even at lower temperatures, like when it's 30 degrees, you know, I'm uncomfortable, so you'd expect..

Where does that original 37 come from? Because if you take your temperature with a thermometer under your tongue

that's not what comes out, is it? Well, I say it's average. My wife's a nurse and she said it's between 36 and 38

Is it? Yeah, 37 is average for humans. And does she not have an answer to your question

Well, she's working at the moment. So you haven't asked her. That's why I'm asking you. Oh, so we could both end up looking a little bit silly here

Yeah. The other thing is, James, if I go swimming in a swimming pool

that's often around 30 degrees. Yeah. And I feel very comfortable, very pleasant

in 30 degrees water but if it was 30 degrees outside um again i would struggle yeah and it's

definitely all centigrade isn't it yeah yeah definitely just checking just checking that

it's not currently 37 degrees fahrenheit no all right you're on um you're only allowed one question

we can't be doing with the swimming pool danny we'll just ask about the body temperature yeah

it'll probably provide you with the knowledge you need to work out the swimming pool answer for

yourself? Yeah, sure. Yeah, my first question stands and I can't wait to hear the answer. Do you think you'll ever ring again

or is this it now? Now I've got the taste for it. 54 years

54 years. LBC was born in the same year as me. 54

years it's taken you. I was born in 1960, so I've just retired

which is why I've now got the time to do all the things I've never done before

You'll be on all the time. You'll be one of those people that we kind of look on as members

of the family before the year is out. Danny, stay safe, mate, and thank you for the kind

words I do appreciate them even though I sometimes unconvincingly pretend not

to. It's quarter past twelve you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. There's your first question

if the average body temperature is 37 degrees why do we feel so hot when the temperature

outside the average body is 37 degrees? It's going to be one of those answers that makes you go

don't. James O'Brien on LBC. After twelve and we're off. Brian's on the

Costa Blanca. Brian, I don't know the Spanish for question or answer and I only realised

that about a nanosecond after thinking I know. I'll ask him in Spanish whether it's a

question or answer, but here we are. Question or answer in English. It's a question, James, please

Carry on, Brian. When someone is in court and they take the oath

they promise the evidence they will give will be the truth, the whole

truth, and nothing but the truth. My question is, what's the difference

Yeah. Where does that come from? Probably Latin, isn't it? The truth is truth. I promise to tell the truth

Yes. Not all the truth. The whole truth and nothing but the truth. The whole truth. Why not just choose one of them? No, no, no, no, no

No, Brian. What? Hold on one moment. Let's think about it. I promise to tell the truth

you could lie by omission. Then go to a second one, the whole truth

I promise to tell the whole truth. Right, I'll go to the third one

Nothing but the truth. So we've got the first two. We know why we need a qualification of..

No, not necessarily. Yeah, you do. Let's just have one. No, because I could lie by omission

The evidence I shall give shall be nothing but the truth. Yeah

Oh, I see, so we just used that one. No, no, no, because that's..

No, it's nothing but the truth, but it's not the whole truth, Brian. Well, just choose the whole truth

But then it would be... There might be some things there that are not true

I could tell the whole truth, but I could tell some lies as well. That wouldn't be the whole truth, then

Yes, it would. I'd tell the whole truth and some lies. Then tell nothing but the truth

So you need all three. Well, all right. Well, you've given up very easily there, Brian

No, no, no. I've thought that answer through myself, but I still don't think..

I'm thinking why he can't. We need case studies, so ask me a question

Go on, ask me a... Why not just... I promise to tell nothing but the truth

Yeah, okay. What were you doing on the night of the 17th? Watching TV

Exactly. But you also went in and killed someone. So you've told the truth when you said watching TV

but you haven't told the whole truth. Yes, but I'm... And then if you said

all right, I did actually go out and kill someone, but they pointed a gun at me

then you have not told nothing but the truth because they didn't point a gun at you

But you were still telling the truth that you went out and you shot them, but you didn't... That's the whole truth

that you went out and you shot them. But you added, exterraneously, that you shot them

because they pointed a gun at you first, and that is not true. But you have still told the truth

and the whole truth, but you have not told nothing but the truth. Ergo, you need all three

Well, James, I like it. I like it too, Brian. I like it too

Yep, thank you very much. Thank you very much. I think I've got it now. Adios, Brian

Adios, you. Adios, amigo. Round of applause for me. That was wonderful

I think we might have peaked, Keith. I think we might have peaked early this week

thanks to Brian. Elvia is in Brentford. Elvia, what would you like to say? I beg your pardon

Question or answer? Question, please. Carry on, Elvia. So, how is it possible that sometimes you can actually smell rain

before a single drop has fallen? What are we actually smelling? Can you

I can. I actually can. Not all the time. No, of course not

Yeah. I mean, it would be... I mean, if you've got an accumulation of pressure or whatever it is

you know, clouds and stuff, and the water content in the air is about to tip over into rain

It makes sense that you'd be able to sense a sort of a shift in the..

But how did the smell get to us before the rain does? What does it smell like

Rain. That rain, yeah. Right, right. And we not talking about petrichor You know the smell of the soil after it rain I love that smell It a beautiful smell I do as well It also one of my favourite words as well Elvia I love that word It beautiful

What is it that we're smelling? Because it's something in the air that is only there before it rains

But how does it get there? So what is it? What is it? And what does it smell like

It's not petrichor, as a couple of people have very foolishly already texted in

But we want to know what it is. Why can we, what are we smelling? or, yeah, is it what are we smelling when we smell something before the rain comes

Yeah, what exactly are we smelling or how is it possible that you can smell rain before it comes

Is it raining at the moment? It is. It actually just started raining. Yeah, I thought, I don't know why. I could smell it

I'm in a soundproofed, absolutely airtight studio. Well, it's not airtight, is it? Otherwise I wouldn't be able to breathe

But I'm in a soundproofed studio. I have no idea what the weather's like while I'm at work. It's absolutely ridiculous. It's got no windows, got nothing

It is 21 minutes after the start of Elvia. Thank you. And the reason I asked whether it was raining or not

is because Elvia is in Brentford, which also happens to be where my garden is, because there'd be no point in me asking Brian

in flipping Costa Blanca whether it was raining or not, would I? Because it would have no interest to me whatsoever

as someone who is sitting in Leicester Square, wondering about whether his lawn in Brentford

is about to go green again at some point in the not-too-distant future. Greg's in Shaftesbury. Greg, question or answer

Question, please, James. Carry on. How do seagulls know to come inland for food

at certain times of the year? Yeah, tell me more. Tell me what you mean by that

Well, say, for example, at Glastonbury, you're sat there trying to put it all back in the box in the morning

and there is... Is that a figure of speech, Greg, or are you just talking about food

I'm just talking about food. Carry on. But they're there, or they're often behind farmers

when they're dragging their soil and stuff, so how do they know to be there so far inland

Yeah, I mean, they must have scout goals, mustn't they? Scout seagulls

Maybe, but they don't seem the sharing type. They come out and they... They must be

They must be the sharing. They flock. You don't really get flocks of seagulls. Isn't there a band called Flock of Seagulls

There is a band called Flock of Seagulls. Yeah, there you go. So there must be flocks of seagulls. Otherwise, the band wouldn't..

So you're in a flock of seagulls. And one of you's a scout

Or perhaps they take it in turns. And you fly around. And you see, for example, someone at Glastonbury

trying to get it all back in his box. Or you see a big tractor ploughing through a field

and you fly back to the flock and you say, lads, I have found our lunch

And then they all fly inland and fill their little beaks. But how often do you see a seagull on its own inland

About three times a week. Yeah. So how do the seagulls know

Because they're not there all the time. That's the point you're making, isn't it? Because sometimes they move

They might have actually now started roosting near a rubbish tip, for example

because it's replaced their tradition. I mean, we need to get over the idea

that seagulls only hang out at the sea, don't we? Yeah, I guess so, yeah

But I'm from Bournemouth, so it's quite hard. Yeah, of course it is. But I think it is a miscomprehension

despite the name, that seagulls will only ever want to be at the sea

They'll go where the food is. Potentially. But still, you don't see them..

I don't think you see them at Glastonbury when Glastonbury's not on. Do you not

How do you know? You're never there when Glastonbury's not on. Well, I live nearby

Oh, all right, then, clever clogs. How do seagulls know where to go inland

0345 6060 973, that works for me. Nice one, Greg. Dave's in Goostry in Cheshire

Dave, question or answer? A question, please, James. Carry on. My daughter, Amy, was wondering why all large train terminal stations seem to be arch-shaped

Yeah. I mean, can I ask how old Amy is? She's actually 23, but she's just a bit..

She's a bit of a scaredy cat on the phone. That's kind of done away with my next question

Well, now I can still ask this. Is she quite a... Is she susceptible to a little bit of flannel and nonsense

or would she actually be quite impatient with that and she's just here for a proper answer

because I'm poised to start thinking out loud, Dave. Had she been eight, I probably would have done

but given that she's 23 and possibly already drumming her fingers, I'm not sure that I'm going to go off on a bit of a meander with this one

She'd be very impatient with that. She doesn't like my dad humour at all

No, there we go. Thank you for that. Good job we clarified. All right, there you are

Why are... I mean, the rain runs off it, I suppose. No, it's not that. The same shape as tunnels

No, not that because they're much bigger than a tunnel. Why are... Easier to build? Cheaper to build

you can have both ends are open uh right you're on this for amy uh and indeed for dave 25 minutes

after 12 is the time so now you've got an idea of how it works if you're new to mystery for example

how can our average body temperature be 37 degrees when we are so uncomfortable when the average

temperature outside our bodies is 37 degrees uh i answered brian's question it's a brilliant

question that possibly my favorite uh what are you smelling when you smell the thing that you

smell just before it starts raining. How do seagulls know where to go? And why are

large train... Is it termini, Keith? Termini? Terminuses? Terminals. Sounds like Latin, that. Termini, terminuses

terminals, terminamus, terminatus, terminant. Why are large railway stations always arch-shaped? Keith has got

that look on his face that says to me the answer is obvious. We shall see

And, of course, you can now add your question to the list as well. 0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3

26 minutes after 12 is the time. Michelle is in Boston. Michelle, question or answer

It's a question, James. Carry on, Michelle. Okay, so, during the drought that's just happened, I..

The drought? I know, I got all confused. I thought you were going all posh, thought you were going hyacinth bouquet then

During the draft, during the draft. Carry on. So, I noticed that in my garden, my lawn died and was like a sandy, rubbishy, dead colour

But all of the weeds, bright green and are growing really well

Why aren't they affected by the drought? The weeds in the lawn

Yeah. Well, I mean... There's dandelions and there's those burdock leaf things that you rub on stinging nettle stings

Yeah. They are going gangbusters. Really? But my lawn is... Yeah. But they're not going gangbusters

And he said, no, they really are. No, but they're not greener than they would be if there wasn't a drought

Possibly not. I've never really paid attention before. Well, you wouldn't, would you? So, I mean, the obvious answer would be that they don't need as much water as grass

Yeah, but why not? Because they're all planty things. Yeah, but they're not, are they

That's not a good enough answer, James. I don't want to be... You've got basil. You've got basil, like a pot of basil

and then you've got something next to it like a cactus. They're both planty things, Michelle

They are indeed, but they don't come from the same place. Whereas the weeds in the lawn I have are both indigenous to a certain extent

Whereas a cactus... Yeah, all right. Not a cactus then. A fern

I don't know anything about ferns. Well, they don't need much water. Not as much as basil

I'd like to know why they don't need as much water. Well, why don't you need as much water as someone who's really thirsty

Because I'm, you know, a camel I thought this was an excellent question

Well, it might be. Quite often when I take the mickey out of questions, I end up feeling foolish because they turned out to

But I just thought that a weed is by definition something that can survive more easily than a flat... No

Yes? I don't know. All right. I don't know. You're on. I like it. Michelle's weeds

Dave stroke Amy's railway stations. Greg's seagulls. Alvia's rain smells. And Danny's temperatures

We're off and we're running. Thank you, Michelle. Oh, from Boston to Carlisle

Pete's there. Pete, question or answer? Question, please, James. Carry on, Pete

So I'm a truck driver, and throughout the day, I collect a myriad of insects and bugs on my windscreen

You do. Every now and then, probably, I don't know, on a ratio of once a month

I get a red one. What, a red splat? Blood. Red, like blood. Yeah

So my question is, what insect is that? Now, back in the day

the day when going out on the lorry with your grandfather was classed as childcare

Did you do that? Was your grandfather a lorry driver as well? He was, yeah, he was. Is that a family business or did you just follow him into the same job

I just followed him in, really. Lovely. But he used to tell me that they were tooth fairies

Oh, what? Yeah, I know, right? Good Lord. I went, oh, then, because you said tooth fairy. I had like a Pavlov reaction

Oh, tooth fairy. Why are you splashing tooth fairy? I like you, granddad

and obviously we both know now that two fairies don't fly that low

thank you, well played good man, there you go conscious of the fact that it's the school holidays

and of course, it wouldn't be funny, would it? 100%, so my question, like I say

is, what does Splat's Red? I think, I know oh do you

well you know me, I probably don't but I still think I do I think it is, ready

not a dad joke, I swear I think it's a recently fed mosquito

Ah. You might be on to something. I think I am. Have you ever done that

Have you ever managed to squish a recently fed mosquito like yourself on holiday

No. Because you get a red splotch. It makes total sense. So it's human blood on your windscreen, Pete

Oh, not necessarily, because they also eat animal blood, don't they? Or drink it. I don't know

That's what it is. It's a recently engorged... It's a lovely word

It's a recently engorged mosquito. Well, you've lifted a lot of guilt off my shoulders there

because for years I was hoping that there weren't children missing out because I'd taken out two fairies

Perish the thought. There it is. I think that's two for me today, Keith, actually

Thank you, lovely. Happy driving, Pete. Lovely question. Seriously, you take care

So that goes off the board. That's nice, though. I've done a few more than usual lately

It's just the nature of the beast, isn't it? Sometimes they come around and my pointless meanderings

actually end up leading us all to a happy destination. Here's Matt Hewitt with your headlines

James O'Brien on LBC. Six minutes to one, and I'd like to qualify my last answer

Not just mosquitoes, but a fly that has recently drunk a lot of blood

It could be there are many, many flies in that category, I remembered, during the news

and definitely not because you told me via text. So you've got your horse flies, your deer flies, your stable flies

There's your tessie fly. We wouldn't get those. They're only in Africa. But there you go. You get horse flies

So it's a recently engorged, blood-filled fly splatting on your windscreen, and therefore every now and then you'll get a red splat

where normally you don't. Andy's in Reading. Andy, question or answer? I have an answer, James

Thank you, Andy. It's to be a question about temperature. Why is it uncomfortable when the outside temperature

is the same as body temperature? Now, human body, we metabolise. So actually, to maintain health

we have to keep our temperature the same. And what we're actually doing when we're metabolizing

is producing heat, producing energy. So we are actually a balance between the heat that we produce

and the necessity to actually lose heat and temperature to maintain. It's like a seesaw so that we can maintain

So the harder it is for us to lose heat by certain mechanisms

because the temperature outside has risen. So in other words, if it's 37 degrees

it's harder for us to conduct heat energy outwards and get rid of heat, we have to rely on other mechanisms

like sweating, evaporation, which makes us feel uncomfortable. So as the temperature goes up

it's more difficult for us to get rid of heat energy and therefore we adapt to another mechanism

which makes us feel a bit more uncomfortable. So is that also the different, I mean, this is part, I think, of your answer

internal versus surface temperature or not? Yeah, so that's it. Yeah, so what happens is that we have various adaptive mechanisms

So when we're cold, we hold all the warm heat inside of the body

And that's why our hands are cold, because we're not letting any of the heat energy out

Even though our core temperature is still going to be between 36 and 38 degrees

we're freezing cold outside. Exactly. So we maintain our core temperature the same

The interesting thing about this is the adaptive mechanism. Let me give an example of babies

Please. Babies are absolutely fascinating, because babies can't put on clothes, they can't put on gloves

I mean, they can't talk or anything, can they? They're not that interesting. Sorry, carry on Andy

No, no, they are interesting James, I'm going to persuade you on this, because babies, I didn't know if you know

babies don't shiver. And so babies don't have all of these adaptive mechanisms

or behavioural mechanisms to maintain their body heat. So they tend to lose heat quite quickly

So they have developed a mechanism where they metabolise, they metabolise massively to try and produce heat more

to balance the heat loss and the heat gain, so that they stay the same

which is why when you hug a baby, they always feel nice and warm. They do? Good on

And so... I never noticed they can't shiver. Oh, yeah. When, when, when, what time does that kick in

What age does shivering kick in? Oh, I don't know. I think it's a baby

about one I'd be slightly making up. Yeah, don't worry, I do it all the time

Well, I'll make up, I'll happily make up an answer. 18 months. Yeah, why not

That sounds good. Actually, that might be the answer. That might be close

But myself as a doctor, and an anaesthetist an intensive care doctor when we in operations going on one of the things your anesthetist will measure and maintain is your body temperature and various adaptations that we do to try and keep that the same

Wow. And so that is a really, really important part about the physiology

in maintaining health. It's maintaining your body temperature. It's the balance between gain of temperature and loss

Wow. That's a lovely answer. I hope that it's enough to satisfy Danny

I think it will be. 54 years you've been listening to LBC he's never rung in before and you've just given him

an answer to his question Andy Qualifications, you've already told us but tell us again

for the tape. Yeah I'm a doctor of medicine and obstetrics intensive care and just a little sprinkling

on the top, one of the mechanisms that we use to lose temperature is evaporation

which answers the question why is it nice to stand in a swimming pool with

nice water over your body when you have a lovely evaporation so you can enjoy

the temperature of water and enjoy the evaporation to keep you nice and cool as well

amazing work round of applause for andy that was lovely mate thank you i've done it too much you see i told you my kids have got

a little bit impatient with my that my first band was called line i'm full on grown territory now

not even kind of affectionate dad joke stop it please but everyone's doing it now he said babies

don't shiver julian sheffield said there you go james it's a new name for your first band

sam's in amersham sam question or answer hi james i've got an answer for michelle

Marvellous. It's about weeds. Yes. So she's wondering why the weeds in her lawn are looking lush

when the lawn isn't. And the weeds she mentioned in particular, dandelions and docks, they've got very long cat roots

So it's an adaptation that allows them to reach into the groundwater much below..

So I was wrong. It's nothing to do with how much water they need. It's how much water they get

They're able to reach into areas that are a bit deeper where the water hasn't evaporated quite as much

and they're able to sustain themselves that way. That's a perfect answer. Qualifications

So, as you know, I'm an award-winning garden designer and horticulturalist. I know that, but it's a mystery

We can't take anything for granted or go, you know, cut any corners

That's okay. I wanted to ask you about your Brussels sprouts. Did you find out the issue with your Brussels sprouts

No, my raised beds this summer have been an absolute disaster. And then the hosepipe ban kicked in anyway

so I'd rather not talk about it if it's alright with you. I'm so sorry, I was going to give you a tip

Well, I'll take the tip, though, for next year. It's too late to sow anything now

Yeah, one of the reasons why Brussels sprouts don't produce edible fruiting balls..

That's the name of my first band, the Edible Fruiting Balls. Carry on

It's because the roots are not packed enough So they don't like rocking at the roots, so what you have to do is press down really hard around the roots

compact the soil, and that helps to keep them really stable, and then they will give you a pop of fruit

That actually makes perfect sense. I think I was a little bit too giddy when I was preparing my raised beds last year

I did too much raking. So you probably got a light fryer on the soil. Yeah, I did. I did too much digging, because I was digging in the manure

and I probably left it too flaky. Oh, there you go. Hopefully next year

Yeah, next year is the time. You can thank me. I've got a tree. What about a fern

I've got a fern. I've got two ferns, Sam. Yeah. One of which is, I mean, you would not believe how lush it is

They're not identical ferns. One's a slightly darker green than the other one

but they're tree ferns. And the other one, which I've repotted, and I bought some special soil, like ferny soil for it

And it's not dying, but it's got, I'd say, one in every four leaves is looking a bit brown, frankly

How do you look after a fern? So tree ferns are quite different from standard ferns

Yeah, it's a tree fern. So if you're talking about tree ferns, they don't actually take up water from the base

No, I've been watering the central... You wash them in the crown. The crown, is it

Yeah, so you don't water the base at all. You do all your watering down the middle. No, they're basically dead, that stump

And it's growing out of the top. so if you were to add an irrigation line

you'd have to make it run all the way up the stem and into the crown, which is where the..

No, I've been doing that. The fresh growth is coming from. But I'm not... I have been doing that

I'll stop watering the base of it now. I'll do all the watering down the crown, and then I like to do a fine mist on the leaves as well

Mm-hm. So I thought you were doing all the right stuff. But why... So there's nothing else I can do then

I mean, you can't... Is it in full sun? No, it's not in full sun

I'll turn it around a bit as well. than the other. Maybe I'll swap them around and then see if it is where it's sitting

They can take pretty deep shade, so if you've got a spot that nothing else will grow in..

What will be making it go brown? Will it be... Probably lack

of moisture. Lack of moisture, there you go. You can see. Anyway, it was cheap

at the garden centre. It was pretty brown when I bought it and it's less brown now than it was when I bought it

Well done. Thank you. And then come winter it falls apart completely, right

You have to wrap it up in blankets or something. Um, hessium bag

like a potato sack or something will do the job. When do I do that? Come November

It's really about stopping the frost from getting into the crown. Because I'd be gutted if it doesn't come back next year

They're amazing, aren't they, Treefans? For people who don't know, they're like snails

You get the whole frond. They're like a baby orangutan. They just unfurl

They're very strokeable. Gorgeous, aren't they? Absolutely gorgeous. Absolutely adorable. Done the qualifications

Have you had your round of applause yet? Can you remember? I haven't. Well, here it is. I actually have to, because otherwise I might have to pay you for your autocoll

Thank you so much. No, thank you so much. Lovely stuff. I'm going to start calling her Sammersham, as opposed to Sam in Amersham

because it'll save time. Richard's in Havering. Richard, question or answer? Hi, morning, James. I've got a question. It's a bread-related one

Thank you. So, like most people, I throw out the ends of the bread

and put it on the lawn and let the birds eat it. Yes. I've shifted. It's a bit of an issue in Havering

but I've shifted more to sourdough bread now. Woo! Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, there is a debate

whether we're a London borough or Essex at the moment. Yeah, of course there is, yeah. We what I noticed is that it doesn get eaten So they not the birds and whatever eating it before is not eating the sourdough bread So I wonder what going on there

So Essex birds are turning their beaks up at sourdough bread. You beat me to it, yeah

You can take the boy out of the tabloids. Exactly. Wow. So there's something about sourdough bread that the birds don't like

It's not because it's too, no, because it would get wet, wouldn't it, and all sorts of things

It's not the texture. It's going to be the contents, we think. There's something in it that maybe is not salty enough

or it's not yeast. I don't know. I really don't know. Okay, you're on

Yeah, why don't the birds like the sourdough? And you prefer the sourdough, do you

You're sticking with it. I've switched. I don't eat much anyway, but apparently it makes you less fat

so I'll stick with that one. What's not to like? Lovely stuff. 12.45 very nearly is the time, Richard

Thank you. So I need some answers now. Hurry up quickly. Ready? Done that one

What could you smell when you smell that thing that you smell just before it starts raining

What are you smelling? 03456060973. How do seagulls know where to go

when there's about to be a feast, like at a festival, a music festival

or the rubbish at a music festival, or a farmer is ploughing his field? 03456060973

I think Keith has got the station's question right, so we will wait to see whether someone rings in to tell us

and if they don't, I'll probably let Keith speak through me to you

We've done the Weeds question with Samisham, and we want to know about the sourdough bread

Why don't the birds dig the sourdough? 0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3. And remember, there's a board game up for grabs

a mystery game up for grabs, my favourite contribution of the week, and there is no, I don't think

there's no out-in-front contributor so far, is there? There's no obvious winner of it so far

so it could be you. James O'Brien on LBC. Can we play the grass clip just to mix things up a bit

I know we don't normally do that during mischief, but I keep forgetting to do things

and then remembering about a week later and thinking about, oh, I never told you about that

It's just sort of taken our eye off the ball with regards to Donald Trump

We mentioned it right at the top of the week, the fact that we kind of stopped talking about him

which is probably what he wants because the reason why we stopped talking about him was because it was impossible to keep up with what a menace he is

So I just thought you might enjoy this little clip of him from yesterday

as much as I did. If you come back in two weeks, three weeks, it's in shock

But you come back in two or three weeks, this has all been redone. It's all been topsoiled

In other words, we put topsoil, brand new earth on top. Very, you know, very..

A lot of good ingredients in that earth for grass. If you're grass, you're very happy

and this grass will look so beautiful. Yeah. Stuart's in Hackney. Stuart, question or answer

Quick question, James. Carry on then. I was going across the Woolwich Ferry the other day

and it just dawned across me. Do ships or heavy cargo boats like that have weight limits

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, in the sense that eventually they'll sink

Well, that's not the question. What is the question, then? Do they have weight limits

So, do they weigh everything going onto a boat to make sure it doesn't get close to the limit at which it would sink

Well, that can't happen because we do that across the Woolwich Ferry, don't we? They don't have any scales there

No, but they probably... I mean, apart from sinking, what would tell us that the weight limit had been reached

Well, without the ships or the boat sinking. Yeah, without... I mean, unless it sank

how would we know that we had overloaded it to the point where the weight limit had been breached

Exactly. What? What do you mean exactly? I'm asking you. Well, you can't load up a ship and wait for it to sink, can you

No, exactly. So what would a weight limit be? That's what the question is

Is there a weight limit, and how do they determine the weight limit? That's not the question. That can't be the question

Because we've just said they don't weigh everything going onto a ship, do they

But they can't. They can't weigh everything. They can't. I know. They just can't. So there's no weight limit

They'll see. I'll tell you what, they'll just watch it, Stu. And when it starts, when it starts, when the water, when it goes down below

Is it the plimsoll line? What's the plimsoll line? Is there anything to do

No, nor me. So, there'll be little lines on the hull. I think it is the plimsoll line

No, no, no, no, no. You can't say no. You can't go in 30 seconds from no, I haven't got a clue

to going no, no, no, no, no, can you? But I don't have that line. I'm sure that's..

It's the plimsoll line, mate. No, it's the plimsoll line. Every boat has a plimsoll line

and once it's reached the plimsoll line, you can't put any more gear on it. Boom. No, but..

What, but? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes. No. Yes

Nobody looks at the plimsoll. Everybody looks at the plimsoll line, Stuart

Everybody looks at it. If you don't look at the plimsoll line, you're going to sink your ship. Not possible

It is possible. It's the plimsoll line. Everybody knows it's the plimsoll line except you

No, that's not right. You must have been off school that day. Did you miss a lot of school as a child

Not one day. Oh, well, maybe you had an ear infection. Yeah, but that's not the answer, though

It is the answer, though. That can't be the answer. All right, who do you want to take the answer from, then

if you're not going to take it? It's buoyancy. The boat is buoyant, right? You load up the boat

You can't, as you've acknowledged. You've got a gauge in... I think you sound rather indecisive

I'm not indecisive. I'm absolutely adamant. It's a plimsoll line. It's not

It is. What if the ship doesn't have a plimsoll line? Then it's doomed

No, there's got to be a better answer to that. I mean, how can you say it's a better answer

It is precisely why ships have a plimsoll line. It's a brilliant answer

No, that's not an answer. You're not getting a tick on this one, son. I am getting a tick on this one son Who would you accept an answer from then Somebody that maritime knowledgeable All right About Ash in Northampton I don know

Is he maritime knowledgeable? He flipping is, mate. Have you not been listening to our conversations

about the Strait of Hormuz? No. What? You're one of those people

that only tunes in for Mystery Hour, aren't you? No, I listen to you all the time. Oh, yeah

Just like you never missed a day of school, but you've managed to miss all of our conversations about the war in the Middle East

Easy, Tiger. Easy, Tiger. I'll leave it on the board, but I'm right

Thank you. Thank you. It's the plimsoll line, 12.53. There's a gauging lock in Brentford

I don't know why I feel this is relevant, but that would actually, back in the day

weigh you by water displacement at the side of the lock as opposed to on the actual boat itself

So I don't know whether barges have plimsoll lines. Water displacement on your way into the Thames

versus water displacement on your way out would allow them to calculate what your weight was

Why are you shaking your head at me? Yeah, it would. So anyway, it's called a gauging lot

It's lovely. And so is the whole of Brentford. Ashes in Northampton, crikey

Question or answer? I'm back on Mystery Hour, James. Answer, please. Carry on

This is where we met, isn't it? It's quite romantic, this. Go on, then. Okay, the word he needs is tonnes per centimetre

Right. What that is, is when you work out for each cargo

how much it's going to submerge the vessel a centimetre across its entire length

Yes. And how many tonnes you can then load of it. So that's vessel-specific, the TPC

Yes, because it will depend upon the underwater volume, but it will also depend on the dockwater density

But in the absence of scales, i.e. a ship is loading without you being able to weigh everything going onto it

it's all about the plimsoll line. Yeah, so load lines is what you'd use

Why are you saying load lines, not plimsoll lines? Because the plimsoll line's a very specific

load line. What, just for loads of plimsolls? Well, it was designed as the

sort of like the maximum you could go to without the ship sinking, sort of for

safety margin. So you wouldn't necessarily want to go all the way, okay, got you

So there's a specific to a plimsoll line, but a load line is a little bit more variable

Yeah, so you can have like the fresh water, your tropical, your winter North Atlantic, all sorts of different ones

What's that dock density water? Dock water, what's that all about? Dock water density

Yeah. Well, the density of seawater is 1025. Yeah. The density of freshwater is 1000

Dock water is usually a mixture of seawater and freshwater, so it's somewhere in between. Brackets

So you have to interpolate between them to get the exact figures. Interpolate

God, you should get a round of applause for that and that alone, shouldn't you? There you go. So salt makes water more dense

Yes, which makes the vessel float more. Of course it does, yeah, because..

So you sink more... So if you were moving from salt water to freshwater

you'd have a small risk. Yes, well, if you're moving from, yeah, salt water to freshwater

so you would sink down to your marks. If you're moving from freshwater to saltwater, you float up

You are so good, man. It's actually ridiculous. You and Noga today are addressing very different issues, I grant you

but flipping out, you both absolutely knocked it out of the park. It made me feel like a third wheel on this programme

I wish you had a round of applause from me. Oh, sorry, hang on. Qualifications

I remain a chief officer in the Merchant Navy and a tender of Merchant Navy chief officers

There we go. Carry on. Round of applause for him. Collecting them like stamps these days, he is

12.56 is the time. There you go, Stuart, mate. Dan's in Manchester. Dan, question or answer

Good afternoon, James. Pleasure to talk to you. It's an answer for you

So your caller previously mentioned about why railway stations are arched. So one possible, well, two possible theories to that is to show off the grandeur of the railway company at the time when they first created it

Yeah. To show off as wealth. And then the second theory that I've had was obviously back in the olden days of steam engines and locomotives

All the smoke would then travel up into the air rather than like sideways

into members of the public, and potentially also to manage an annoyance

Have a high ceiling. I think it's a combination of things, and I think Keith's answer to this merits inclusion as well

Oh, I hope he's not better than mine. Well, I'll let you judge, actually, because you seem like a stand-up guy

What about the pillars? So if it's a massive arch, you've got no pillars

No, I don't know too much about it, but I assume that's probably because of the steel beams

at the top of them, holding them together. Yeah. But actually, that's a really good point. I don't know

No pillars at all. So the last thing you want in a railway station is pillars. Yeah, that's true

I mean, you've got to have a lot of sleepers, Dan, but you don't want any pillars

Boom, boom, boom. Get in. What a show. What a day. Have a round of applause. Qualifications

Qualifications? A modest train geek. Lovely to speak to you as well

No, likewise. Next time you're in London, you must come to West Ealing and have a look at that battery train there

It's very exciting. I will do. Thank you. Round of applause. I'll share it with Dan. There we go

Lovely stuff. Just check that Ash has not got a board game, will you

I think he hasn't, so we can give it to him. He deserves a board game. He's been holding the show together for the last six months

almost single-handedly, while I phone it in. I think that's it for today, and what a show it has been

If you missed any of it, you can listen back on Catch Up, on Global Player, or indeed on the LBC app

where you can find a whole range of news, views and opinions. You can listen to a range of podcasts, including James O'Brien Daily

the best bits from my show every day. And full disclosure, the long form, long form, the hour-long interview

I'll stop saying long form. Makes me sound pompous. Pompouser. Is that a word

More pompous. More pompous. Yeah. Oh, thanks a bunch. Download the official LBC app for free from your app store now

Coming up at four on LBC is Tom Sawyer. You all right there, she? Absolutely fine

Shall I carry on? I said that rather too readily, didn't I? Just a bit more pompous than normal James

Thank you very much. Now it's time for Sheila Fogarty. Thank you very much indeed