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What actually happens when you leave education? | James O’Brien - The Whole Show
May 29, 2026
This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 28th of May, 2026. 00:00 - What happens when you leave education? 01:17:26 Carol Vorderman demands apology from reform candidate over ‘disgusting comments’ 01:32:09 - Exclusive: Reform MP Sarah Pochin mysteriously deletes video helping 'Britain's biggest benefits cheat' - Henry Riley, LBC's Reporter 01:41:02 – Mystery Hour Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #jamesobrien #politics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Good morning. It's three minutes after ten. I'm just going to adjust my muff. Don't worry
0:06
about any strange noises that might be coming out of your radio, but, um, there we go. That's
0:11
better. That's Keith's main job, you know, in the mornings. So the first words Keith
0:15
says to me most mornings, well, the first word he says to me most mornings, some mornings it's the only thing he says to me all day. He'll just say muff into my, um, earphones
0:24
Possibly, if he's saying it loudly or if my levels are wrong, you might even hear it yourself. It might bleed out of the headphones and make its way into your show likes
0:34
You know I've got an enduring fascination with this stuff. And obviously that interest has been completely borne out by events
0:42
Because Alan Milburn, isn't it weird how politicians... I don't remember Alan Milburn particularly when he was in his pomp in the days of Tony Blair's premiership
0:52
But it's so much... Why do politicians always appear to be more likeable, more human and more capable
0:58
when they are no longer in office. You think of it most obviously with prime ministers
1:02
John Major was a laughingstock in many ways, lampooned to the nth degree by his private eye and spitting image and everybody else
1:10
And now he's got proper gravitas. He's like an elder statesman being quietly proven right about everything
1:16
Well, maybe not everything, but definitely Brexit. Gordon Brown, treated abominably, abominably by the media in this country
1:25
And, of course, lied about egregiously by David Cameron, single, well, not single-handedly, but effectively, effectively
1:35
rescued the world or at least set the agenda for the world's recovery from the global financial crisis
1:43
There's one night, I wish, marvel at how little understood this is
1:48
and Alistair Darling flew to Washington and Gordon Brown flew to, I think, Paris
1:53
where he wasn't guaranteed a seat at the table because we weren't in the single currency
1:57
And together they persuaded both Europe and the United States of America
2:01
to pursue Gordon Brown's plans for rescuing the world's economy. So he looks incredibly different now with the benefit of hindsight
2:11
And I'm just listening to Alan Milburn this morning. You just heard it in the bulletin, him talking to Nick
2:16
as he tours the nation's studios discussing this heartbreaking story of inactivity
2:22
What a dreadful phrase that is. economic inactivity I think I forgot to tell you that banker
2:29
who came out the other day with that hideous phrase what was it he discussed something undervalued human capital
2:34
he's had to apologise I said to you at the time that's not going to stick
2:38
I mean we know they all think it when they're talking about their actual human employees
2:44
we know they all think it but he said it out loud he's going to regret that
2:50
and indeed he has lower value human capital to describe your workforce
2:55
Imagine if I came on the radio in the morning and described Keith as lower value human capital
3:00
Wouldn't that be disgusting? It's just out. We perish the thought seven minutes after ten
3:08
And I suppose I hadn't actually spotted this until now. I suppose that is what our young people look like now
3:19
They look like lower value, or indeed depending on the age you are currently
3:24
you are lower value human capital. And in fact, your value is so low in our society at the moment
3:32
that there's not really anything for you to do. Oh, boy. I wish I hadn't stumbled into that little observation, to be honest with you
3:40
Lower value human capital. To describe people working for banks, high value people working for banks
3:45
how the hell would that person describe a 20-year-old who has never worked
3:50
If people working in banks today, and remember, these are the men that run the world, if people working in banks today are described as lower value human capital by their employers, how on earth would they privately describe a 20-year-old woman who has never had a job in her life or a 22-year-old man who has tried and tried and tried and tried to clamber on to the bottom rung of that ladder and failed
4:19
again a horrible word I'm at risk of turning into that character
4:24
that Paul Whitehouse used to play in the fast show some mornings because I do find myself saying more often than is
4:29
either healthy or particularly intelligent God aren't words great? Words are so important
4:34
we touched upon it yesterday you describe the same thing with different words
4:38
and it completely changes the whole feeling of what you're describing even though you're describing the same thing
4:45
they have failed to get onto the bottom rung of the ladder
4:49
as opposed to they cannot get on to the bottom rung of the ladder
4:54
the difference between failure and impossibility. How different do those two words sit in your own consciousness
5:01
Your kids have failed. Your kids have been failed. Where's the difference
5:08
Where's the line? How do you know whether your kids have failed or whether your kids have been failed
5:14
It's extraordinary, right? And it's now a million, over a million. In the last half an hour, the number has reached over 1 million young people in nothing, not in education, work or employment
5:29
That figure predicted now to rise to 1.25 million by 2031 if nothing changes
5:35
That is the direction of traffic, 1.25 million. But we don't need to look down the road
5:43
We can simply look at where we are today and report that over a million young people are not in education, employment or training
5:52
And we learned today that half of them, or over half of them, have never held a job
5:59
So that is an existence that many of us find almost impossible to contemplate
6:04
This is 16 to 24-year-olds, not in education, employment or training. 58% of those have never had a job, 15% of them are graduates
6:16
which I mention only because a degree, a graduate degree, is perceived as enhancing your chances of employment
6:24
We don't even dig into the question of how many graduates with jobs
6:28
are doing jobs for which their degree was either necessary or helpful
6:32
He will be speaking at 11 o'clock today, and he will be laying out what he has identified
6:38
having been commissioned by Sir Keir Starmer to look into this. He will be laying out what he has identified as the main reasons for it
6:48
But we've been doing that for ages, and I don't think we'll get a better answer to the question
6:53
than one that we got earlier this week. Sarah in Rutland, I think it was
6:57
who works as a careers teacher in a school. So, you know, nobody's going to get everything 100% correct
7:03
on this sort of stuff. That struck me earlier, that struck me on Tuesday
7:06
and still strikes me today as a perspective that's going to be a little bit more valuable than most
7:11
And she just cited something that made, to me at least, perfect sense
7:17
And we have struggled, we have struggled on this programme to identify, to get
7:22
properly into this issue. Probably still will we find out in a minute But she just switched on a light that I had not I couldn even find the switch before she rang in on Tuesday And she identified the thing I been trying to understand and articulate now
7:38
for the best part of two or three years. And it's that idea of how they feel, how you feel as a neat
7:46
And the different language, the different emotional language that you speak compared to your parents' generation
7:54
She just talked about them being occupied. They don't actually feel as if they are in free fall
8:01
or floating aimlessly around the universe because they have this false engagement with social media
8:07
with technology, with sharing platforms or simply being engaged by content. You don't even need to be involved in any sort of exchange
8:18
I wonder whether people of this age group are ever bored. I mean truly bored
8:25
Bored like you were bored on the third week of the summer holidays back in the day
8:30
I mean bored, bored. Like nothing to do, but like three channels on the television
8:35
and they're all showing boring stuff. What? Bored, bored. That age group of people really ever bored
8:47
I don't know. I don't know how relevant that is. So we return to this territory in expectation of Alan Milburn's speech later today
8:58
But it occurred to me that the question that, or what I should begin by doing, is an admission of ignorance
9:07
So I really need your help with this. What I'm going to do is tell you the stuff I don't know or understand
9:13
even having conducted several conversations in this area. The stuff I neither know nor understand
9:21
And you can hopefully help me. So, and it can either be answered through knowledge or experience or both
9:29
So the first thing I'd begin with is what happens when you leave school
9:34
Okay? What happens when your son left school or when your daughter left college
9:42
So 16 to 24, that includes all of it. It could be someone leaving school before sixth form, which I didn't think you were allowed to do anymore
9:48
There's something else I don't know. Or it could be someone actually leaving university with a good degree
9:54
But what actually happens? Because the world must have changed beyond all recognition from when I was that age, when I was that age group
10:04
When I left school, I walked into a shop in Worcester and got a job
10:09
I walked into a restaurant in Kidderminster and got another job. and that was not a particularly impressive or extraordinary performance
10:18
by any stretch of the imagination. While I was at university, I had a job
10:22
I worked in the college bar and I had a job in a fancy pants suit shop on Regent Street
10:27
and I stayed in that job after leaving university and continued to do it until I was confident that I was getting enough shifts on newspapers
10:35
to call time on my career as a suits user, consultant. and that was normal
10:44
There was nothing, there were other lads in my position, there were women on the ground floor
10:48
on the women's floor, who were in the same position, graduates hoping to get a break in other areas
10:53
but working while it happens. So when you left school, you just got a job
10:58
and it wasn't very difficult. There'll be some elements here of class and privilege and education
11:03
of course there will, but it's not like I was getting a job as a nuclear engineer
11:08
I was measuring inside legs on Regent Street, But that was there already
11:13
That familiarity with work was completely normal to me. Had been since I was 16, actually
11:18
So this sounds like a really stupid question, if you're my age
11:23
because we think we know the answer. But how audacious it is of us to have had so many conversations
11:32
about you and yours, about these young people, without ever actually asking what happens to them
11:42
What actually happens? How easy or hard, for example, is it for them to sign on
11:50
was the phrase that we would have used when I was their age. I don't think we use that phrase anymore, do we
11:55
How easy or hard is it? So, question number one, what happens when you leave school
12:01
In terms of future employment, what do you leave with? 0345 6060 973
12:09
Question number two How easy or hard is it to actually sign on
12:15
Because I think there's a perception no doubt encouraged by the usual suspects
12:21
that all of these young people are taking the mickey or swinging the lead
12:25
or lying in bed all day playing Candy Crush and listen, some will be
12:30
when I was that age, I'd have been very tempted by a slightly more
12:34
indolent lifestyle, but it wasn't financially an opportunity for me because I had to
12:38
pay rent in London. And that was the point. I didn't want to go back to Kidderminster
12:42
That would have felt like defeat. And I was determined to plug
12:47
away in London. I couldn't afford to do that. I certainly wouldn't be able to live where I lived
12:51
on the wages that I'd have been paid as a shop assistant
12:56
So this is a really important question. And again, how audacious of us to have conducted so many
13:03
conversations about this without asking the fundamental questions, the first premises, the basics
13:10
What happens when you leave school? Where do you go first if you want to get a job
13:15
I don't even know. I'm really sorry and not a little embarrassed to admit. I don't even know
13:21
I walked up the high street with a CV or I walked up the high street looking for signs in windows
13:27
saying work wanted. Just explain to me why that is a bit like..
13:32
uh, I'm trying to think of a, an anachronistic ogy. It's a, you know, it's a bit like
13:38
cycling around on a penny farthing. It's so out of date that it's no longer relevant to this
13:43
conversation. What happens when you leave school? What do you leave school with? What happens when
13:49
you leave university? What, what is that first point of potential contact with the workplace
13:55
I need you to tell me, cause I am embarrassed to tell you. I don't know. I've got one of my
13:59
children will be graduating in a couple of years i'll find out then but i should probably be finding
14:04
out now or maybe she already knows i don't know you well you don't know but someone listening will
14:11
know oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three the one i really think is important because
14:18
alan milburn will today set out a plan to fix everything with quotes welfare reforms but today
14:25
is not the day on which he will detail what those welfare reforms actually are
14:30
He, unlike Tony Blair yesterday, is going to come back with an actual programme to achieve
14:35
not just a, oh, we need to do this and do that, but don't ask me how, which is what his former boss, Tony Blair, did yesterday
14:42
This seems to me to be a really important question. How do you get welfare
14:48
How does it actually work? And what do you actually get? because again there is a temptation
14:54
encouraged by the usual suspects to see the welfare state not as a safety net but as a trampoline There is a temptation carefully cultivated to see these young people as choosing to spend their lives
15:07
bouncing up and down on a trampoline paid for by their parents and their grandparents and you and me and taxpayers
15:14
It might be true, but I don't know. I don't have the details. I certainly don't have the numbers
15:19
How easy or hard is it to get welfare, to sign on when you leave school or university
15:26
having never previously worked. 0345 6060 973. So, what happens when you leave
15:33
How hard or easy is it to get money, to get help
15:37
And I want detail on that, not speculation or anecdote. Actual detail based on knowledge and or experience
15:45
And do you know what? I think I'm going to leave it there. I think those are the questions that I want and need answering
15:51
before we can have any other conversations about what's going on and how we might fix it
15:55
Let's start at the bottom. Let's lay some foundations. Accept my apology for not having done this before
16:02
I've come at it from a slightly more highfalutin or philosophical perspective
16:07
Let's just start with the brass tacks. How easy is it to get welfare
16:11
And what happens when you leave school? And you want a job
16:17
What actually happens? What do you do? Where do you go? And what happens when you get there? Hit the numbers now. You will get through
16:23
James O'Brien on LBC. 31 minutes after 10, I have actually got a third question
16:28
and it's a really important one that Richard has reminded me of, stroke brought to my attention
16:33
As a responsible hospitality employer, offering young people some very well-paid opportunities
16:39
where are they all? Question mark. Where are they all? We advertise for such positions and get little to no response
16:47
There is more to this than a broken system. So I want employers to tell – that's actually – I mean, it may be a different phone in and of its own, Richard, but let's add it to today's list
16:58
When you advertise, when you are looking for staff, what happens? Okay, we've got two what happens and how easy or hard is it on the list today
17:09
What happens when you leave school or college or university and you go and you start looking for a job
17:15
What happens? and then if you're an employer and you advertise wherever it may be these days online in your shop
17:23
window you you are looking for staff and richard is only one perspective of course but you're what
17:30
what happens when you go looking for staff so the two ends of the spectrum what happens when you go
17:35
looking for work as a young person in the 16 to 24 year old category and what happens as an employer
17:41
when you go looking for staff, i.e. 16 to 24-year-olds who are currently not in education, employment or training
17:47
Because something here doesn't make sense. And I want to work out what it is
17:51
Mohamed is in Camden. Mohamed, what would you like to say? Hi, James. Thank you very much for having me on the show
17:57
Yeah, having, as a young person, gone through the whole process, I've really felt disheartened by how it works here
18:06
I've got relatives who live in the Netherlands and they get practical work experiences from the age of 12
18:11
all the way to the whole of secondary school, to college. Yeah
18:17
What sort of thing? What sort of thing are we talking about? So as part of the curriculum
18:22
they get 20 to 60% practical work experience as part of the education
18:28
So they have an initiative with employers that they take on young kids from the age of 12
18:35
and that is, you know, part of it. So if someone wants to study nursing
18:39
if someone wants to study engineering, they get to be placed in a placement from that young age
18:45
and then two days of the week they get to work in the actual workplace
18:49
They can't be done. I mean, forgive me. At 12 years old, they can't be spending two days a week in the workplace, not in school
18:58
If you search up on the internet, you'll find that it's correct
19:03
And also, sometimes it might not be two days altogether. It could be like 20% a day, half a day
19:09
but it's better than what we get i know in the uk what do we get well how old are you
19:14
apprenticeships i'm i'm 30 now but i went through the education system came out um secondary school
19:20
with no practical experience then went to university couldn't get a job um got a law degree
19:26
and i still couldn't find a job and the one thing that helped me back was having practical work
19:32
experience and also with the internet age exploding you're not competing with people
19:36
just in the UK, you're competing with everyone around the world, there's people flying in from Italy and Spain
19:41
to work here in London, and then flying back out because the job market on the pay is better
19:47
And I don't blame them. Well, I think, again, that doesn't make sense to me
19:51
I mean, first of all, freedom of movement has been abolished, freedom of movement of people, so you can't fly in and fly out from Italy or Spain
19:57
as easily as you could do before Brexit, for good or for ill. But secondly, why would I hire them and not you
20:02
they might have better work experience than themselves i don't know so when you left
20:09
university what what did you do to find work so i applied everywhere what did that mean does that
20:16
just mean you're sending off into the ether application after application after application
20:20
yeah i went i sent application after application i've applied for jobs which i was less qualified
20:26
well, more qualified to do. I've taken on, I went on to
20:31
I had to sign on because I couldn't afford to pay my rent anymore
20:35
How hard was that? What does signing on involve? It was very degrading because I'm a young person
20:40
who's capable and able to work. Yes. And there's no jobs available
20:44
I've still got to pay rent. I still have to feed myself. Going to the job centre and asking for a handout
20:50
is not something I wanted to do. But how easy is that? What do you do
20:54
because forgive me i'm not feigning ignorance on this i'm realizing that there's some bottom line
20:59
stuff i don't know universal credit yes um you make an online application it takes 30 days for
21:05
them to assess then they'll ask you um what jobs have you been applying to and they try to give you
21:10
help one of the things they did which i found quite useful was they had a work experience program
21:15
where after a while that you after you sign up for um i think 13 weeks or something like that
21:21
they'll send you to a training scheme i think someone there was this lady from weed.com
21:26
that came on there she provided um one-to-one interviews how to do it and practical skills
21:32
that i didn't get in school i didn't see that in college i didn't see that university i found that really um much better and i found tricks and tips on how to make applications um
21:44
things that i was doing wrong on applications that i was um on cvs i was creating
21:50
that I didn't look at it because sometimes one of the key things she said to us was
21:56
a job advertisement is what the employer is looking for. They're not looking for your experience
22:00
They're basically looking for X, Y and Z. You need to tailor your CV to X, Y and Z
22:05
Okay, that's quite helpful advice. I could probably use that when I was at that age
22:09
because you sort of think they're going to be interested in the fact that you were chairman of the school debating society
22:13
or something like that when you're applying for a job as a shop assistant
22:18
How much did you get when you signed on to Universal Credit? If you don remember someone else can answer that from the here and now And then you got a job finally Was it relevant to your degree No my first job was in a contact centre Okay But I was just happy to get a job
22:36
just to put myself in a ladder and then work my way up to become a supervisor
22:40
then a manager. Well done. A couple of years later after that
22:44
I've got a job in a field that I studied, but absolutely hated it
22:49
Oh, okay. I wish that I'd actually got practical work experience in that field, in law
22:55
This is the thing that we keep coming back to, isn't it? Practical work experience
22:59
Because, I mean, everyone's supposed to do it. I get about 10 a year from people
23:04
sometimes people I haven't seen for 20 years, asking if I can sort their children out
23:08
with some work experience. And that made me think everybody's doing it
23:12
or everybody's getting some. But either it's not very meaningful or helpful work experience
23:17
or most people aren't getting any at all. No. Why not? Why not
23:21
Do we know why not? I'll tell you why. Go on. In the UK, we do have these apprenticeship schemes
23:26
placements and all of that, but they're not as big. Or, you know, I think they should make that
23:32
as part of the curriculum, education curriculum. If they started young people from early on
23:39
make it normalised this as part of the curriculum to spend one day or two days even
23:44
I know it's not practically... But then employers have to sign up for that as well
23:49
And, you know, I mean, if you said, I'm not an employer exactly. I don't have any low-value human capital on my team
23:57
No. Not really. But if they said to me, you've got to have a little mini Keith
24:02
coming in for work experience for a couple of days, that would make my job harder
24:06
You know, I'd have to look after mini Keith. It's true. It does for the short term, like you're training anyone
24:11
but you're investing in someone long term. I know all that. I know all that
24:15
But I mean, part of me doesn't care. I've got to get the show on the road. I've got to get the store
24:20
stocked. I've got to get the van out. I can't be looking
24:24
after mini Keith. I've got things to do. I've got plans to make. And you're wasting
24:28
time with some creepy guy. Sorry, that was a George Michael quote
24:32
That wasn't about you, Mary. No, no, no. You're 100% correct. And I understand the frustration
24:36
of employers and people in the sector. I work as a contractor
24:40
right now. Yeah. And a portion of my pay goes into a percentage of my pay
24:48
I think 15% of my pay goes into the supporting of apprenticeship within the industry
24:54
So they do get some of the money. Goes around, comes man
24:58
Yeah, some of it comes from the government to support them. So they're not losing in terms of value of money away from them
25:04
It's just their time. And it does. But unless you invest in the future of the children of this country
25:12
you're not going to get a future. I think you're right. I mean, we're already in the next hour probably going to be talking
25:16
about the plummeting birth rate. I think if you sit these two things alongside each other
25:20
we're in a period of existential crisis as a nation. You know, and sadly, these are not..
25:26
But I was just happy to get a job, just to put myself in a ladder
25:30
and then work my way up to become a supervisor and then a manager. Well done
25:34
A couple of years later after that, I've got a job in a field that I studied
25:40
but absolutely hated it. Oh, okay. I wish that I'd actually got practical work experience in that field, in law
25:47
This is the thing that we keep coming back to, isn't it? Practical work experience. Because, I mean, everyone's supposed to do it. I get about 10 a year from people, sometimes people I haven't seen for 20 years, asking if I can sort their children out with some work experience. And that made me think everybody's doing it or everybody's getting some. But either it's not very meaningful or helpful work experience or most people aren't getting any at all
26:11
No. Why not? Why not? Do we know why not? I'll tell you why
26:15
in the UK we do have these apprenticeship schemes placements and all of that
26:19
but they're not as big or you know I think they should make that
26:24
as part of the curriculum education curriculum if they started young people
26:29
from early on make it normalise this as part of the curriculum
26:34
to spend one day or two days even I know it's not practically
26:38
but then employers have to sign up for that as well and you know
26:42
I mean if you said I'm not an employer lawyer exactly you know i don't have any low value human capital on my team no not really but um if
26:51
they said to me you've got to carry you've got to have a little mini keith coming in for uh work
26:56
experience for a couple of days that would make my job harder you know i'd have to look after
27:00
it's true it does for the short term like you're training anyone but you're you're investing in
27:04
someone long term i know i know all that i know all that but i don't i don't i mean part of me
27:08
doesn't care i've got to get the show on the road i've got to get you know i've got to get i've got to get the store stocked
27:13
I've got to get the van out. I can't be looking after mini Keith
27:17
I've got things to do. I've got plans to make. And you're wasting time with some creepy guy
27:22
Sorry, that was a George Michael quote. That wasn't about you, Mary. You're 100% correct. And I understand
27:27
the frustration of employers and people in the sector. I work as a contractor right now
27:34
A portion of my pay goes into a percentage of my pay. I think 15
27:41
of my pay goes into the supporting of apprenticeship within the industry. So they do get
27:47
some of the money. Yeah, some of it comes from the government to support them
27:53
So they're not losing in terms of value of money away from them. It's just their time
27:58
And it does. But unless you invest in the future of the
28:03
children of this country, you're not going to get a future. I think you're right. I mean, we're already
28:07
in the next day are probably going to be talking about the plummeting birthrate. I think if you sit these two things alongside each other, we're in a period of
28:14
existential crisis as a nation. And sadly, these are not problems that can be solved by driving
28:20
around in a borrowed cherry picker sticking flags on lampposts. These are genuine national crises
28:26
Mohamed, that's a perfect start. I feel some of the mist's clearing, but questions that we can go
28:31
in deeper on and clarify further would be, and I know it may sound stupid that I don't know this
28:35
but I haven't signed on for more than 30 years. What happens when you sign on
28:40
How easy is it to get money and how much do you get? 03456060973
28:45
Because when they talk about welfare reform, they can't just be talking about making the existences of these young people
28:51
even more precarious and poorly funded than they are now. 1031 is the time
28:56
And if you're an employer, what happens when you're looking for staff? Right now, today, if you put a sign in your proverbial or metaphorical window
29:04
So, staff wanted, what happens? Here's Dominic Ellis with your headline. James O'Brien on LBC
29:10
34 is the time, and you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
29:15
I suppose when you're a phone-in host of a certain age, and, spoiler alert, you get older every day
29:21
you've got two choices, haven't you, on stuff like this? On almost everything that we talk about together
29:26
you either just keep thumping the drums that you were thumping 30 years ago
29:31
keep believing that the world hasn't changed. This is very much what was wrong with Tony Blair's essay yesterday, completely failing
29:37
to recognize how much the world has changed. Or you ask for help in understanding how the
29:43
world has changed and changed your opinions accordingly. Probably the best example I can
29:48
give you that's relevant to the conversation we're having at the moment is the difference
29:53
between being a student who is not going to leave university with a huge amount of debt
29:57
and being a student who is. So I was a student who is a student who is a student who is a student who did not leave university with a huge amount of debt. So I talked about university
30:05
I talked about graduate level education, I talked about education in general, as a younger radio
30:10
presenter, with a, you know, a veneer of certainty, certainly with a lot of confidence
30:16
And I was stupid, because I was talking about a world that no longer exists
30:21
A world where you can get a degree without getting a ton of debt. That's the world I lived in
30:26
that world doesn't exist anymore so why would anybody base their opinions on experiences of a
30:31
world that doesn't exist when they're trying to give advice to people who live in the world that does exist and and it's hard it's not always easy i can see why it's so tempting just to keep
30:40
offering up the opinions that you had in 1984 and or 1985 and pretending that the world hasn't
30:45
changed at all you stick your fingers in your ears and just whistle dixie and you'll get a
30:49
column in the daily mail it's a happy old life but the world keeps changing if tony blair's not
30:55
noticing it, what chance have we got unless we really put the effort in and ask for help
31:01
And the ways in which we need help today are pretty obvious. How easy or hard is it to get
31:07
welfare? How much do you get when you're 16, 17, 18 years old? I'm not convinced that it is
31:12
a sum of money that is going to make it suddenly make sense that all these young people are
31:17
choosing to do it. What happens when you leave school? What is the actual experience? If you
31:22
leave all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, then how long does it take for that enthusiasm to be destroyed
31:28
by reality? And if you're an employer and you stick a metaphorical sign in your shop window
31:34
this morning saying staff wanted, what happens next? All of those, still room for your answers
31:40
Catherine's in Barrie. Catherine, what would you like to say? Hi, James
31:45
So, I am a long-time listener. This is the first time I've run in because this..
31:49
I feel like I've got a lot of experience. This is your life. This is my life
31:55
I am sort of a mum, early 50s, so I went to university
31:59
and I was on the last year of... So in my final year, they brought in the student loan
32:06
but that was tiny payments. It was something, you know, a couple of thousand pounds. A similar age, I think
32:11
Yeah. So I've got an 18-year-old and an almost 20-year-old, and I would say even their experiences of trying to find work
32:21
just that two-year difference is massively changed. So the older one, he did his GCSEs just after COVID
32:31
He decided to go to college, went to college, got his B-tech
32:35
decided he didn't want to go to university, was really worried about how much debt he would end up with
32:40
decided he was going to work, struggled to get something consistently, you know, he did all the usual things
32:47
He'd worked in a burger chain, he'd worked in retail, Anyway, he has for the last 12 minutes been working as a carer in palliative care, which is amazing
32:58
And has decided to go back to university or to go to university
33:02
He's got a place in September to support psychology. Fine. It's been a struggle, but he's got there in the end
33:07
And hopefully, you know, through the placement. I mean, interestingly, he's decided to do a course that specifically has placement opportunities because he is worried about not having that
33:19
and he's decided to go to a smaller university, which is more intimate
33:24
where they know the staff on, like the staff know the kids and they will place them
33:29
because he wanted to get work experience while he was there, which I don't think was maybe what he would have done
33:35
No, without a little bit more experience. But just to be clear, he found it relatively easy to find paid work
33:42
Yeah. Because you mentioned at least three jobs that he's done and he's barely 20
33:46
Yeah, but interestingly, when he started, So he started work at 16 and he was on very low wage
33:53
It was literally like £5.80 an hour, something like that. So there were a lot of young people working where he was working
34:02
They would only offer short shifts. I don't know if this is universal, but in Wales there's a limit to the number of hours that you can work between the ages of 16 and 18
34:11
Because the Welsh government wants to encourage kids to stay in education and to stay and get their maths and English
34:17
so there's pros and cons to that that's great if you are so i mean that for some people it would be
34:23
that i'm not going to be able to make enough money to make a meaningful difference to my life so i'm
34:26
actually not going to get a job at all because i'm just thinking about the cost of concert tickets
34:31
which is something i see it with the young people or or just looking at how much the new james bond
34:36
video game costs i mean god knows how many shifts i'd have to do on five pounds an hour to get one
34:40
of those absolutely and he could when he started he could only get a four pound a four hour shift
34:44
So I was like, well, I was learning that when I was your age to go out and do a day on a Saturday and I could pay for a driving lesson and maybe buy something to wear to go out
34:53
You know, it's very little. So obviously, as parents, we were fortunate enough that we could top that up for him
34:58
And, you know, because we wanted to encourage that work ethic. But I can understand why a lot of young kids wouldn't want to go out and wear that
35:06
I mean, I would say that, yes, he was able to get into work. He then went from there into retail
35:11
And now on to the younger one. Yeah. So the younger one, he left school at 16 without any qualifications
35:17
He was with that. He had just gone to secondary school at the start of COVID
35:22
He really struggled with going back after COVID, various reasons. Sometimes he was dyslexic, etc
35:28
I would say the age from 16 to 18 was extremely difficult for him because, again, he wasn't in education
35:38
He tried going to college. That didn't work out. But he then, you know, he didn't have any worse experience
35:47
I mean, I cannot explain how complex some of these application processes are
35:53
So if I give you an example of a pub chain where they were looking for kitchen porters
35:59
So first of all, they say they would prefer you to have one year experience as a kitchen porter
36:03
I don't know why you need that to wash dishes, but I'm sure they know what they're doing. from there
36:10
it was, if you got through the first round, you then had
36:14
to send in a two minute video of yourself talking about why you thought you'd be good for the job
36:18
Washing dishes? Washing dishes. Nothing wrong with washing dishes I worked with a lovely lady called Olive
36:24
in Kidderminster, she was the chief dishwasher in the restaurant where I worked in Kidderminster and she held
36:30
the whole place together, she was lovely but I don't know if she'd have been able to put together
36:34
a two minute video of why she was good at the job I'm just very good at cleaning plates
36:39
I've got a really good scrubbing arm. What would you even say? I don't even know. Well, and it's, you know, can you talk about our brand
36:45
why you think that you would do well to, you know, come in and work for us
36:49
And you're like, you're in the kitchen washing dishes. You're not going to speak to anyone. This is an entry-level job
36:53
What are you would perceive to be an entry-level job? Bizarre. And, you know, that is not an isolated example
37:00
We've tried everything from, I mean, you know, I have sat with him and we have worked through hundreds of applications. And to no avail
37:09
all to no avail. Well, no, often, often he will get through to an interview stage, but then it
37:14
will be a group interview by a team. You know, you're talking about somebody who's 16 to 18
37:19
who hasn got necessarily the confidence of logging onto a team session and answering questions as part of a group interview And this is before anybody gets to meet anyone face And also at this point the employee potential employee hasn even gone into that place of work to see it
37:37
So one of my kind of feedback I would give, as somebody who's recruited a lot of people, myself personally
37:46
is if people aren't willing to show up face-to-face, come in, have a look around the environment
37:51
see where they're going to work, meet you, look you in the eye, shake your hand. then you're not filtering out those people as part of the process
37:59
And I get it. I understand employers have got difficulties getting people in
38:03
and all the rest of it, but we're trying to encourage these young people to work genuinely
38:10
I mean, to the point where I've changed my job, we've changed where we live to free up my time to help support them
38:18
because it is, there have been times. when I think 16 to 18 is very difficult
38:23
because they want to work, they want money in their pocket. Yes, of course
38:29
They, you know, they are also teenagers, so they can be difficult to motivate
38:34
but they do want money. So the idea that you can just pop out
38:39
and get a job, walk down the house, you know, the amount of people that said to me
38:43
well, can't you just walk your CV round the shops? It's like, no, it doesn't work like that anymore. um you know we've he's for 12 months having left school he would go every wednesday to work at a
38:54
friend's gym for free as a volunteer to get some work experience which we would then you know give
39:00
him some cash for so it's very complicated trying to get a job now and the other thing that i just
39:08
wanted to mention was the apprenticeship so now what we're seeing in his age group is the kids
39:14
that are doing A-levels or, you know, that sort of level four qualification
39:19
a lot of them want to go on, or level three, they want to go on and do a level four apprenticeship
39:24
So those apprenticeships that I think maybe our generation consider for the vocational jobs that maybe those young people
39:33
that aren't going to go to university or be in academia, they are now being consumed by people who are choosing to do that
39:41
who've done A-levels, like they are academic. you know they could they've got the skills to go to university
39:47
and if you're an employer often they look much more attractive than these young people
39:52
so your boy's getting kind of squeezed out from above and below effectively
39:58
potentially what's he doing now I'm going to run out of time but I just
40:02
does it have a happy ending? He's done 12 hour shifts in warehouses he's signed up for agencies
40:08
he's a grafter he's currently working three days a week with a landscape gardener
40:12
which he loves Again, it's casual. And that's it. That's someone who was really
40:18
not only has he had a look down every avenue, but he's got extraordinary support from his parents as well
40:25
And he still struggles, despite having a work ethic, having supportive and understanding parents
40:31
and having the wherewithal to get himself out there and make the applications
40:36
I mean, I don't know what Alan Milburn's going to do unless he's going to pull a magic wand out of his back pocket
40:42
but I just want to, I hope it's not patronising to say that you're obviously an amazing mum
40:47
because I don't know that many people would be as committed to their child's welfare as you clearly are
40:53
and I find that inspiring. So thank you, Catherine. And thank you also for the slightly less uplifting insights
40:59
into what it's actually like. I've got Wayne on the line next
41:03
I haven't spoken to him for a while. In Kingsbridge in Devon, I know that he's an employer and I know that his target audience of employees
41:09
will be precisely the young people we're talking about. So I'm very interested to hear his answers to the question of what happens when you stick a card in your, in his case, not even metaphorical window
41:18
We'll find out after this. It's 10.46. James O'Brien on LBC. It is 10.50 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
41:27
Some very good news for Nigel Farage that I think I should probably share with you
41:32
He's very busy, as you know, counting all the money he received in secret from a Thai-based billionaire
41:36
and coming up with ever-changing stories about why he was given it and shouldn't have declared it and all of those things
41:42
So just in case he is or has been too busy to report to the relevant authorities
41:47
the fact that he has proof he was hacked by Russian spies, Anna Turley, the chair of the Labour Party, has very kindly offered to do it for him
41:56
You may not have seen this story because an increasing amount of the British media
42:00
seems to be turning into stenographers for Farage's latest outfit. but Anatoly's given him 24 hours to report the claim that his phone was hacked by Russia-linked actors to security services
42:11
or she'll do it for him because he's so busy avoiding interviews and counting secret gifts from forum-based billionaires
42:19
She says it's in the public and national interest to ensure a suspected overseas hack of a senior politician's phone by a hostile state was properly investigated
42:30
Spokesperson for Reform says the incident has been reported to the, quote, relevant authorities, end quotes
42:36
without saying who these were. You remember that when Farage claimed last week
42:40
or the week before, that one of his many homes had been firebombed and that the police had investigated
42:46
the police said they'd investigated an attempted burglary and had no record of any firebombing event whatsoever
42:52
Unless, of course, it was a different house and a different force, and the attempted burglary happened in one house
42:56
that definitely wasn't bought with the money he secretly received from a Thai-based billionaire
43:00
as opposed to another house that also definitely wasn't bought with the money he received in secret
43:05
from a Thai-based billionaire, but which was subject to a firebombing attack which no authorities that we've been able to find
43:10
have any knowledge of. Are you still with me at the back
43:14
So you see, he's really busy. You can't dream up this... I'm sorry, you can't report accurately this stuff
43:19
without needing a good old lie down, and that's probably what he's doing at the moment
43:23
which is why he's desperately avoiding all interviews. I think they've taken to interviewing each other
43:27
haven't they, now? That's sort of one way to avoid media scrutiny. I think I saw footage of him interviewing a candidate
43:35
that I was talking to Carol Valdeman about yesterday, and you'll be able to hear that conversation with National Treasure
43:41
I imagine she probably doesn't like that description, but she is, whether you like it or not, a National Treasure
43:46
Carol Valdeman and I sat down to talk about some appalling abuse
43:50
that she has been exposed to by people in public life, and we will hear a little bit more about that
43:57
before the end of the programme today. Before that, though, as promised, Wayne in Kingsbridge
44:02
Wayne, what happens when you are looking for staff? Nobody applies. Nobody at all
44:08
It's very rare, and it's very limited numbers. It takes forever to get anyone interested
44:13
and typically they aren't ready for work, even at the age of 16
44:18
What does that mean? I mean, I kind of know, but for people who don't know
44:22
you've got a pizza restaurant, a pizza restaurant in Kingsbridge, Pizza delivery service
44:28
Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. So Ready for Work would be able to turn up to work on time
44:33
start shift, do all the tasks that you've been taught, exactly how you've been taught how to do them
44:38
and work independently without being told repeatedly what to do, not look at your phone all the time
44:45
pay attention to your surroundings, and just try and be part of a well-oiled machine
44:52
And that doesn't happen anymore. so I mean you a nice man and you know that these kids aren turning up to annoy you They just don that why I keep using the word vocabulary It like a vocabulary they have never been taught
45:07
And how long can you sustain that? I mean, what do you do? Two, three days before you can work out whether or not you're going to be able to turn them into something useful
45:14
Yeah, we can usually tell within a couple of shifts whether it's going to be a hard, long slog or not
45:19
And it can take six months before things start to click, which is a real challenge
45:24
and we can't give them full-time hours. They're not allowed to work full-time hours
45:31
but we need them ready for work. When I started in the industry now 23 years ago
45:36
at the tender age of 13, I worked in a pub, restaurant, kitchen as a KP
45:44
and I learned how... Did you have to record a short film of yourself
45:49
explaining why you'd be a good kitchen porter? No, I just turned up and they employed me
45:53
the pub was still being renovated when I went in went in with a mate of mine, they went yep
45:57
okay fine. Well that wouldn't happen now you know and I know that that wouldn't happen now
46:02
you'd have to go through head office or you'd have to fill in a form or you'd have to record a short film
46:06
of yourself explaining why you'd be a really good kitchen porter. Possibly
46:10
part of it, I mean now I wouldn't, as a 13 year old you simply wouldn't be able to go and do what I did when I was
46:16
13 because you're not allowed to you can't work more than two hours on a school day
46:20
or on a Sunday, a maximum of five hours on a Saturday as a 14
46:24
year old. I was doing 9, 10 hours at 14. It just wouldn't happen
46:32
So we've got all those rules. So what, for me, what seems to be happening is, and
46:35
10 years ago, we were taking on people at the age of 16 who had done
46:39
two, three years working in a either as a KPI in the kitchen or waiting
46:43
When did it break? Because, I mean, lockdown must have, yeah, okay, there it is, because
46:47
suddenly there's this, I mean, we're talking about 16 to 24 year olds
46:51
So theoretically, if you take COVID as a two-year event, then there should be a two-year hole in the conveyor belt or hole in the process
47:02
But that would presume that it recovered quickly from the breach. And a lot of things didn't really go back that quickly for hospitality
47:10
It's still really hard. And then we've got to take into consideration the amount that we now have to pay young people
47:15
And I'm not saying they're not worth it. We always have paid them well. but if we look at minimum wages in 2019 to 2020 you could pay an under 18 £4.35 an hour
47:24
adjusted for inflation today that would be £5.72 we've got to pay them at least £8 now
47:29
so it's now an 84% increase to employ someone under the age of 18 than it was six years ago
47:34
goodness knows what the inflation and the cost of living has been because that money
47:37
has risen not not detached from how much the cost of everything that you spend your money on has gone
47:43
up as well. To employ a 16-year-old now, it's 84% higher than what it was in 2020
47:50
That's not sustainable. In fact, it's now more expensive to employ a 16-year-old than it was to
47:55
employ a 24-year-old in 2019. But you still need staff. I mean
47:59
you might not, you might have to pay them more than you're comfortable paying them
48:03
but you still can't find them. Because I think one of the things Milburn's going to say
48:08
and this is why you have to be careful to remember that the plural of anecdote is
48:11
never data. One of the things Milburn is going to say is that for all the talk about education and welfare
48:17
and all the rest of it and work experience, our economy is producing far fewer entry-level jobs than it once did
48:24
which makes me lazily think that when you advertise for staff, you would be inundated
48:28
because there are so few advertisements for staff out there. Perhaps, but I think it's bigger than all of this
48:34
And I think that one thing the government needs to really do is think about how that old adage, it takes a village
48:40
The problem is the village is now mostly working full-time. That's why the lady in Wales was so interesting
48:47
and actually changing her own life to help her sons. And that's not sustainable for everyone
48:52
Of course it's not. And I'm not saying that schools should raise a child, but I do think that we have a wasted real estate in this country
48:59
that's shut for 13 weeks of a year that could be used to tackle two fronts
49:04
the childcare issue and the issue that we've got with child development outside of education and academia
49:09
why are we not using that um estate to do things from right from the age that they start school
49:15
that's a clever appointment that's a clever observation you know every key stage different
49:19
things play food routines at reception and then you can start growing up until key stage 14 they're
49:25
doing study support careers advice life skills doing a bit of volunteering in the community
49:28
sport mental health awareness all sorts of things that can help them develop themselves as a
49:34
a rounded individual that will come out of the education system and have a good grounding to be
49:39
able to walk into a room of strangers and go i am part of this team i deserve to be here i know
49:44
i'm going to do it sense of not belonging and then couple that with what sarah was telling us
49:48
on tuesday about that that illusion of engagement that illusion of fulfillment that you have from
49:54
these algorithms and interactions that are designed to maximize the amount of time you
49:59
spend interacting so your life feels full even as it's empty not to mention your bank balance
50:04
what happens to those 16 year olds who can't click even in
50:09
well in any job what happens to them for us Kingsbridge is a small place, you know how the town works
50:18
where do these kids end up they just end up unemployed indefinitely unemployed
50:25
I know a few that are that simply don't engage in society
50:30
at all, their bedroom is the space that they spend most of the time in, they might have a shower
50:34
They might not. They might go and get breakfast. They might not. It might get brought to them. They're living in limbo, in a sort of perpetual limbo
50:41
They are. They are, absolutely. And they can't see the benefit of going out
50:45
And, you know, working... I feel very sorry for them. I feel very sorry for them. But I don't know where the carrot ends and the stick begins
50:51
And I don't know. We have to hope that Alan Milburn's working it out at the moment. I hope so
50:56
I hope so. Wayne, you're a good man. Thank you. It's coming up to 11 o'clock. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
51:02
I've got a couple of things that I want to share with you
51:05
not least as I mentioned the conversation I had yesterday with Carol Vorderman
51:09
and Henry Riley's got a cracking little story for us as well
51:14
so the next hour is going to be quite busy and then Mystery Hour of course follows fast upon it
51:18
your weekly opportunity to achieve the sort of satisfaction that you can't find anywhere else on your radio
51:23
the story I want to touch on next well the story I want to dig into next
51:28
is about the birth rate I don't know why my brain still started saying to me earlier that these two stories are linked
51:37
The more I think about it, the harder I find it to see any link at all between youth unemployment and the falling birth rate
51:42
But it must be there somewhere. Oh, I think I just saw it. James O'Brien on LBC
51:49
Four minutes after 11, of course they're linked. Just thinking about the schedule, I'm going to move that one to tomorrow
51:54
So we'll talk about the plummeting birth rate, the lowest since 1977. and I mean briefly
51:59
I am obsessed with this I think partly because I don't really want to hang up
52:04
my headphones just yet albeit I've got quite a lot going on at the moment I will always look upon this as my bedrock
52:11
work wise and that means I have to change with the times
52:15
I have to recognise the things that make me feel like I'm stuck in the mud
52:19
my worst nightmare would be turning into one of those people who blames immigration for everything
52:23
or who thinks that opinions forged in the 1980s in a completely different universe are still relevant today And listen I mean you could still do the job if you were built like that but I don think it would be very engaging or enjoyable for anybody let alone me
52:37
And one of the areas that I find almost impossible to truly imagine
52:42
would be a world in which I hit the age of 26, 27, 28
52:46
and had met Mrs. O'Brien and had settled down. I got married at 28
52:51
And we decided together that we weren't going to try to have children
52:54
That would be so alien to not just my experience, but also to my context, the context of my life, when at that age, pretty much everybody would have wanted that at some point
53:11
And it's changing because the lowest rate since 1977, that's news. and the journey to deciding that you're going to be part of that statistic fascinates me and it's
53:25
something that we'll talk about tomorrow i think that the link is pretty clear i think it must be
53:30
obvious that if you are um looking at a world in which there is zero opportunity for 16 to 24 year
53:38
olds and the idea of having children yourself bringing children into this world um becomes
53:43
less and less attractive so i'm going to stay with this but i i'm going to give you a bit of
53:47
talking to quite frankly because what i haven't had answers to so far i want more uh waynes i want
53:54
to know what happens when you as an employer start looking for staff oh three four five six oh six
54:00
oh nine seven three um but i also and and i don't know i i don't think when you're 16 or 17 you can
54:07
get anything can you from from the state so what happens when you're 18 if you're still living at
54:11
home what what is the process of applying for welfare because they all talk endlessly about
54:16
welfare reform. I want to know what that welfare is that you currently get when you're in this
54:22
category. You're a 19-year-old, you still live at home, and you've never had a job. Are you really
54:27
being subsidised by the state to a point where you don't think there's any point looking for work
54:30
or is something else going on? So I need your help with that one. And I guess we're moments away
54:38
aren't we? Because Alan Milburn, I think, is giving or about to give his speech. we're moments away really from from the question of how on earth do you fix it
54:45
which i i kind of think is going to have to involve changing the relationship between work
54:53
and education that very first call in the last hour muhammad talking about a dutch model
54:59
which will probably be replicated across most of northern europe where preparation for work and
55:07
experience of work becomes an absolutely intrinsic part of your education how bizarre to say those
55:14
words out loud as if i'm describing something exotic or novel it should be shouldn't it just
55:20
because i mean i did things like latin at school um the world has changed the workplace has changed
55:27
you should be taught at school how to prepare for work shouldn't you clearly uh seven minutes
55:33
after 11 is the time jane is in louton jane what would you like to say hello hi yeah well i i think
55:40
at school i was at school in the uh 70s and i well what girls were lucky to be able to do office
55:47
practice so we were prepared for work in that way but i think other things at school happened to
55:52
prepare us for work yes and but i didn't want to do office work i ended up doing something else
55:56
But my son now, 22, has a degree, and he said he wants to do, he does gaming, it's a gaming degree, and he does concept artwork
56:07
And he had a few commissions, actually, and he said he wants to do freelance
56:11
But my way of thinking, because I did art originally, I did graphic design, when I was at school and college, they, or not school, but at college, they gave you work experience
56:22
When did it change? Why did they? Because, I mean, I don't normally like glib answers to questions
56:27
but I know that places, even here, the rules are in place and they're imposed from outside
56:33
It's not our policy. It's really difficult to provide workers. The younger you are, the harder it is
56:40
Do we know why it changed? I presume it's one of those policies that was introduced for good reason, but without much thinking
56:46
I don't know, but I know when I was 15, I went to Woolworths and worked, and I was really happy
56:51
Woolworths? I had a Saturday job, yeah. Whoa, living the dream. I had a surgery job
56:57
I got my ears pierced. I was really happy. Did you get paid in pick and mix? And I was quite, because I had two older siblings
57:03
they had a high work ethic. So I followed them. I'm just going to steer you back to 2026, if I may, Jane
57:09
and your son's experiences. Go on. I just wanted to say that I think when they changed the law
57:18
about kids not working until they're 16, it's kind of wrong because they've missed the boat
57:23
When you get to 14, 15, you really have an urge to go and earn your own money
57:28
You don't want to ask the parents. You want money in your pocket. And I think you want to earn it yourself
57:33
So I think we've missed the opportunity. This is what I'm getting scared of now
57:37
is the idea that we're talking about a cohort or some of these generations
57:41
And Wayne sort of floated the notion, really, who are going to be lost forever
57:46
I think this is what Alan Milburn is addressing. And listen, this will sound a little bit brutal
57:54
You can just about absorb that as a society, as an economy
57:59
Okay, we have a lost generation and the one behind it will be fine
58:03
But what Alan Milburn is describing is a lost generation with the one behind it heading into exactly the same sort of territory
58:10
The more you talk about it, two things happen to me. Thank you, Jane. Take care
58:14
The more we talk about this, two things happen to me. it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger is an issue and my temptation when i sit down in the
58:22
morning with you is to try and focus in like a laser on something and so you get to these moments
58:28
of revelation and we did have one on tuesday there is a relationship between modern technology and a
58:34
false sense of engagement and fulfillment my life feels full even as it is objectively empty
58:39
but that's not going to answer all of the questions it's bigger and more complicated
58:45
You've got fewer entry-level positions than ever before, and you've got a bloke with a pizza business in Devon
58:50
who can't get decent 16-year-old staff. Two things are going to be answered by completely
58:55
almost contradictory issues and experiences. It's mad. It's absolutely... I wonder what the biggest single difference is
59:02
between being my age or Jane's age, between being a parent's age now and being an 18-year-old's age now
59:08
The biggest single difference. The thing that a parent might say to an 18-year-old, that the 18-year-old just wants to tear their own hair out
59:15
in frustration because the world is completely different sam's in sutton sam what made you pick
59:21
up the phone yes hi i listened to your plea for employers to call in so i thought i'm kind of going
59:27
through a few things at the moment so i'm a relatively new employer took over the business
59:32
about eight months ago um anyway one staff member left on the face of it got quite a few applications
59:38
a lot of them from young people but then when you sift through they seem overqualified very keen
59:43
you interview them. Some of them, a lot of them, it happens to be maybe bad timing
59:47
that they were coming to the end of their exams. So now a lot of them are students. But then they can't commit around your schedule
59:53
They want it to be around their schedule. So fine, you then get to a couple of that two things
59:57
Okay, they're finishing their degree, chance after having made the offer, declined the other applicants, then they go, oh, sorry
1:00:05
out of the blue, I've heard from some arrows and I'm going to go there. How many, so you're trying to fill one position, are you
1:00:10
One position. You can ask what it is. I mean, it's for a receptionist
1:00:14
It's for a receptionist, but I wouldn't say the nature of the business, but so it's not
1:00:18
sort of full on, you know, heavy lifting of any sort, but there is a certain level of
1:00:24
confidentiality that's expected, maturity, et cetera. and having interviewed them, so one person did that
1:00:32
offered it to someone else. They said, oh, you know, I can only commit for six months
1:00:36
and, you know, then I'm looking for something else. I just want to gain some skills. Of course, as an employer
1:00:40
that's not exactly music to your ears. And the third one, when I offered them initial bit of a pay rate
1:00:46
fine, negotiated over the phone, asked for a slightly higher, fine, agreed
1:00:50
They turned up on their first day of training and then asked for another pay rise
1:00:54
Really? This actually happened? It did actually happen. And now I'm having second thoughts, you can imagine
1:00:59
So this is someone young who we've waited to finish other things
1:01:04
And we've had existing staff cover extra shifts just so that we can wait for them
1:01:10
And this is what they're doing. So the level of maturity commitment, it's hardly there
1:01:15
And this is, sorry to, I know you wanted to say something. I mean, this is all in addition to recent changes by Labour on, you know, higher NI
1:01:25
There's been changes to do with sickness where they can just call and say from the first day
1:01:30
and then don't have to provide any evidence. They can just say it. Has that happened
1:01:35
Sorry? Has that happened to you? Not yet, thankfully, but I anticipate with the level of sort of commitment
1:01:41
Because, you know, when there's no loyalty, they haven't worked here for a really long time. That's a weird thing, isn't it
1:01:44
Because, I mean, again, this is real. Parts of these things have happened to you and other things haven't
1:01:52
The problem with the sickness stuff is that they could be really, really ill. So, you know, even if it is their first day
1:01:57
you don't want people dragging themselves into work with the Ebola virus. Absolutely. And, of course, you're generalizing furiously
1:02:03
Because there'll be young people listening to this who are outraged at being tarred with this particular brush
1:02:07
or being depicted in this way. But the problem is that it is a relatively common experience
1:02:14
for employers to cast their net. I mean, the very first time we started talking about this stuff
1:02:20
I related a story from a friend of mine who has a hairdressing salon in West London
1:02:25
And he, I mean, I turned up for a haircut and he could not wait to tell me
1:02:30
you know, when someone is just bursting with a story for you. He goes, sit down, you've got to get your hair washed
1:02:35
come back quick, I've got to tell you about... Because I'd talked to him about the difficulties of finding staff
1:02:39
and he'd hired a young woman who, when he phoned her up to tell her that she'd got the job
1:02:44
she said to him that there would be some days where she'd have to take the day off at quite short notice
1:02:50
at very short notice. And he said, why is that then? And she said, I kid you not, and I trust this guy
1:02:55
there's no way this is an exaggerated story. She said, because my neighbours have just got a new cat
1:03:00
and I might have to look after it. And I'm 50% outraged and 50% baffled by that
1:03:07
And it's what you're describing as this, the vocabulary of engagement has not been taught to these people
1:03:13
It's not their fault they haven't been taught it. And we didn't even realise we were being taught it
1:03:18
We thought we were born with it. But we clearly weren't, because if we were, then everybody would have been
1:03:22
I think when they're, you know, going for their first job, you need to be as flexible as possible
1:03:28
Obviously, you don't expect the employers to, you know, get you to do any, you know, excessive amount of work
1:03:34
But whatever is expected, you know, people shouldn't be going back on their word, especially when they've made a commitment
1:03:38
That's a really simple thing. And, you know, I mean, we all abhor exploitation and we all abhor maltreatment
1:03:47
But the balance, it's just so bizarre. And that, I think, I'm going to keep going back to Sarah on this
1:03:54
because you kind of think, well, if I did, I had just, my boss said jump when I was 18
1:03:58
I said, how high? You know, and I think probably in one of my jobs
1:04:02
the boss did, I think he was a bit of a bully, actually, looking back
1:04:07
I think he did have a bit of a problem with some of us in the workforce
1:04:11
and treated us fairly shabbily as a consequence, and you wouldn't want that to be normal or commonplace
1:04:16
But the general tomber of the relationship between youthful employee and employer
1:04:22
would be one of cooperation. And not necessarily gratitude, but certainly thinking
1:04:27
well, if I want to get paid at the end of the month, I'm going to have to do the shifts
1:04:32
And that's when I come back to Sarah, because I sort of think, this could be at the heart of everything, you know
1:04:38
the relationship between effort and reward. If the reward's not big enough to justify the effort
1:04:44
if the income is not, and this isn't a criticism of whatever you're paying or whatever Wayne is paying
1:04:49
if the income you get is not going to make a significant difference to your life
1:04:54
then the relationship between effort and reward, so it's effort-reward, reward-effort, what's the point of putting in that effort
1:05:02
if the reward isn't going to make a significant difference to my life
1:05:06
I might be saving up for a car when I'm 19. I might be going on a fancy holiday, whatever
1:05:11
But if the money isn't going to touch the sides of an ambition like that, then that bit of the relationship between effort and reward
1:05:17
bears no resemblance to what the relationship looked like 30 years ago
1:05:22
And I think 30 is a useful age to pick because it's going to be parent versus child on these two experiences
1:05:29
Sam, good luck. I hope you find someone soon. if not I could possibly I don't know
1:05:33
Keith shall pass on? No absolutely out of the question It's 11.17
1:05:37
It's 90 minutes after 11 and I think we can all give ourselves
1:05:43
a bit of a break, not a pat on the back it's a wrong sort of context but I felt very
1:05:47
as you know frustrated by a sense of failure when it comes to
1:05:51
this subject of the million young people who are currently unemployed but the early indications
1:05:57
from the speech that Alan Milburn is currently giving is to me at least that we have nailed it actually during our time together wrestling with
1:06:05
these issues and asking these questions because the four key areas that jump out first are that
1:06:10
mental health is a huge part of our current problems and as he stresses and i want you to
1:06:15
really focus on these words young people are not quotes inventing their distress they are not making
1:06:21
this up and just because you know someone who knows someone who knows someone who might be
1:06:26
doesn't mean that everybody else is too, but two things that he's identified
1:06:31
The first is that young people are more likely to disclose their conditions, which should be a good thing, right
1:06:37
I suffer from anxiety. I've got ADHD, whatever it is. You disclose your condition
1:06:44
It should be a good thing because it's a world where stigma has been diminished or removed
1:06:48
but it goes hand in hand with the fact that employers then feel ill-equipped to offer the right support
1:06:53
So there's a caution among companies when it comes to hiring young people
1:06:58
And the second thing, which again, I have been at great pains to tell you
1:07:02
the government has absolutely missed COVID. Huge shadow, dark and long cast by COVID
1:07:09
the disruption to schooling, the impact, epic impact on physical and mental health
1:07:13
And of course, the removal of the chances for simple workplace experience
1:07:19
as both of the employers that are phoned in today have touched upon
1:07:23
Then you've got the death of the Saturday job, which is a bit of a it seemed sometimes a slightly lazy observation but it is obviously not lazy It accurate to say that those entry those first tastes of something are absolutely crucial
1:07:38
And the demand for prior experience, even for jobs that are entry-level
1:07:43
that's almost like a Franz Kafka plot, or a Joseph Heller catch-22, isn't it
1:07:48
Yes, you can have the job if you've got experience, but this is an entry-level job
1:07:52
Yeah, but entry expense. And then he talks about the record of the Labour government
1:07:59
and touches gently upon some of the recent economic policies that may be actually causing problems
1:08:05
endorsing what Wayne in Kingsbridge said about the youth minimum wage increasing the cost of hiring young people
1:08:12
although he stresses that the impact of this is both mixed and incomplete
1:08:17
So, you know, for all our self-flagellation over not getting the absolutely solid answers to the question
1:08:25
we've done pretty well, it turns out. At least if Alan Milburn's conclusions are correct
1:08:29
we've done pretty well in pre-empting them. Although nothing there at the moment about technology
1:08:33
The speech is still ongoing. Natasha will bring us up to speed with what else has happened shortly
1:08:39
Before that, Josephine is in Westminster. So, Josephine, what would you like to say? Hi, James
1:08:43
So this is something I feel quite passionately about. And I'm going to try and..
1:08:47
Basically, it comes back to how you began the show with human capital. Yes, low value, low value human
1:08:54
I feel like, yeah, but it's just that the human is so often forgotten in these discussions
1:08:58
And even now that we're talking about it, we're talking about just getting young people a job
1:09:03
And I feel like it's not that simple. I feel like we need to be encouraging young people to find their passion in life
1:09:08
particularly in an age of huge economic uncertainty where the social contract is broken
1:09:13
and the job that you get might not give you the ability to get the house, the husband
1:09:19
the child that you always thought you'd have. You need to be able to do something with your life
1:09:23
that has meaning beyond, you know, that isn't just basically taking you out of the government statistics
1:09:29
which is essentially what I fear that everybody is focused on, just getting that number of one million down
1:09:35
Yeah, as long as you don't have that million number, you know, the 1.25. Yeah, well, hang on, because, I mean
1:09:41
And it would be the first generation ever to prioritise passion over pay
1:09:47
But I think we have to in an age of AI. We have to be realistic that the kind of jobs that people used to just be able to do didn't exist
1:09:56
They just don't exist anymore. And so when he mentions that the education system needs reform, I think that's where it has to begin
1:10:02
We really need young people to just learn to be as curious about the world as possible
1:10:09
and be able to find out, you know, just discover as many avenues as they can when they're younger
1:10:15
So my own experience is I did economics at Cambridge and I graduated at just the time of the financial crash
1:10:22
Right. And so pretty much the beginning of third year, I kind of became quite disillusioned with this whole concept of human capital
1:10:29
and just treating people as statistics. And so I went to fashion school in Italy and just followed my heart
1:10:37
And then that led to an interest in luxury. You need to be quite comfortably off in order to make those sort of choices
1:10:45
Exactly that, particularly now. I mean, back then it was easier. And I feel like I then did a PhD at the Royal College of Art
1:10:52
and trained as a jeweler in Paris. And while I was there, I noticed how in France
1:10:56
they have really good training schemes. So a lot of the others who were training with me full-time as a jeweler
1:11:02
their entire course was paid for by the French estate, by the government
1:11:06
and and even in germany they have really good schemes to get people trained in vocational
1:11:12
qualifications and actual skills so training as a jeweler i have to say was more intense i did it
1:11:18
for three years in france and it was every day in the workshop from eight till five disciplined
1:11:24
hard really hard work um and it gave me a kind of like a work ethic that even i mean cambridge was
1:11:32
nothing in comparison to that. And my classmates were all, nobody else was kind of from my background. I was the only
1:11:40
English girl in the school. And everybody else had their course paid for by the
1:11:44
government. And then they had part-time apprenticeships, so they would work at
1:11:48
quartier part-time, halfway through the week and then they would be at school
1:11:52
So there's lots of different avenues. And there's a vibrant jewellery industry in Paris
1:11:56
You've pre-empted my next question. Lots of vibrant industries. Hang on, sorry. I just wanted to ask you
1:12:04
how much effort is put into identifying how many jobs there are
1:12:08
at the end of these courses? Because one of the great tragedies of tertiary education in this country
1:12:12
I don't know what the experience of your cohort at Cambridge, your cohort of economists would be
1:12:17
in that young people are signing up for degrees on a promise of a job at the end of it
1:12:22
when nobody actually, everybody knows privately and secretly that one in a hundred, media was always a very good example of this
1:12:28
but it's spread now. Is it different in France? Is there a clear guarantee almost
1:12:34
or at least a sort of contract that these things will lead to jobs
1:12:39
Yeah, I guess I can't really speak from the perspective of, because if you get a degree from Trinity College, Cambridge
1:12:44
I think most people probably got a job at the end of that. For sure. But I think from my French perspective
1:12:49
I then came back to England and set up my own jewellery business and tried to get my things manufactured here in Birmingham
1:12:56
And what I witnessed out is just the training courses. just the lack of skills that actually exist in this country
1:13:03
and people would say to me, oh, because, you know, those jobs, you know, they don't exist
1:13:08
The courses don't exist because the jobs don't exist. But the jobs don't exist because people can't
1:13:14
the skills don't exist. So it's that kind of gap that we need to fill
1:13:18
because I can't reduce my jewellery here because the skills just don't exist
1:13:22
And there would be some people who would want to be doing what you're doing but have no avenue to get to where you got to
1:13:28
I mean, I almost pushed back earlier at this sort of slightly, well, it sounded slightly idealistic
1:13:36
I stopped myself being the old git who says, well, you can't pay the bills with passion, Josephine
1:13:41
And I'm glad I didn't do that because the more you've spoken, the more sense that original observation has made
1:13:46
And it does speak to that complete change in the relationship between young people and the workplace
1:13:53
And so much of these conversations are conducted in a way that just labours under the illusion that things haven't changed much since I was your age or since we were young
1:14:03
The old people commenting on it. And I think at first glance, Alan Milburn seems to have grasped that particular nettle
1:14:11
Seems to have recognised, because he's using phrases like moral crisis, the failure of a system stuck in the past
1:14:18
So it's not just the people talking about it who are stuck in the past. The system itself is stuck in the past, which is why it can't accommodate or indeed help people like Josephine, whose experiences are quite rarefied, but not unique
1:14:30
You know, training for three years to be a jeweler, it could be anything, which is sort of hands-on work rather than white-collar or office work
1:14:41
You can insert anything into that slot, into that space, and wonder why in this country we do so little to educate and encourage people into it
1:14:49
Thank you, Josephine. It's coming up to 29 minutes after 12. I'm going to squeeze in
1:14:54
I only got a minute James because I got quite a long conversation with Carol Vorderman to play next So just briefly what made you pick up the phone Me Well I been an employer in hospitality for the last 20 years
1:15:10
Minimum wage employment now is very, very hard for us as an employer
1:15:15
Why? I've decided, well, it costs a fortune to employ people. since COVID, the whole..
1:15:22
It seems to have completely fragmented how people look for jobs and how we recruit people
1:15:28
Having said that, I will say we're getting loads more applicants for jobs
1:15:32
than we used to, but that's not really the point I wanted to make. The point I wanted to make is
1:15:35
I'm about to set a business up, a blue-collar business, that's going to
1:15:40
appeal to Gen Z people who... There's a narrative that Gen Z don't want to work
1:15:46
They're all lazy. They only want to be influences etc etc it's absolutely untrue i employ lots of gen z people who are absolute grafters
1:15:54
what they don't want to do is graft their bits and pieces off so somebody above them can have a
1:16:00
nice new range rover or not pay tax and live in dubai so what you have to do is give them some
1:16:05
ownership or the potential to have some ownership and i think the government could assist but
1:16:09
employers need to manage their expectations and go we need to take a little bit less and we need
1:16:14
to set up a business such as a franchise where a youngster can climb the ladder
1:16:18
themselves and then see the future. Well, do you know, it's funny
1:16:22
because it's not just equity. It's also research and development. I remember
1:16:28
looking at some statistics about 10 years ago that showed the shift in profit
1:16:33
moving from research and development and sustaining the business and growing the business over the long term
1:16:40
over the, you know, really long term and the shift in rinsing it
1:16:44
in the short term and taking out as much money as you can in payments and dividends
1:16:48
And that is, I mean, whether you're going to call it neoliberalism or rampant capitalism
1:16:54
that idea of low value human capital being there solely to sow seeds for their seniors to harvest
1:17:02
I think you're probably on to something. I think you're probably on to something there that the younger generation
1:17:07
want to just feel a little bit more engaged. And it's about more than wages because when the wages were higher
1:17:13
you felt engaged. If you can't put the wages up much, you can provide
1:17:17
some sort of sense of ownership. I don't know. I mean, I wish you well with the new project
1:17:21
Keep me posted. It's 11.31. Dominic Ellis has your headlines. James O'Brien
1:17:25
on LBC. It is 11.34. As you are probably aware, but I guess in
1:17:31
a world of algorithms, nothing is certain. Carol Vorderman has asked Robert Kenyon
1:17:37
Reform UK's candidate in the imminent Makerfield by-election, for an apology for posts on a now deleted ex-account in which he well you'll find out if you don't know
1:17:48
already she she said I want an apology from Rob Kenyon to me and to all the other people he's abused
1:17:54
online I sat down with Carol yesterday afternoon to to talk about this and um and one or two other
1:18:01
things it occurred to me just sitting down now Carol that this is not something you you sought
1:18:08
because you haven't been in any sense reticent in recent years with your political opinions and even with activism
1:18:14
But you've been dragged into this deeply unpleasant situation entirely innocently. So unpleasant, in fact, that I'm not sure I can repeat
1:18:24
I'm not sure I'm comfortable saying in front of you the words that Robert Kenyon chose to endorse and defend on social media
1:18:31
Well, I am. OK. Because it's important that people know. And this is just one comment. He has made multiple comments, which are online abuse about me and lots of other people
1:18:46
So the one specifically about me that he endorsed was, I want to smell and lick Caravarderman's eight letter word beginning with A
1:18:58
And Reform have said, oh, it's just locker room banter. I don't know why they're using the term locker room, by the way, because I thought we said changing rooms in this country
1:19:06
But that's that's an entirely different question. But the thing is, James, I'm not upset by it
1:19:13
I am angered by it. And the reason that I'm angered by it is because every woman listening, any woman who is on social media will have similar said to her
1:19:26
Either abusive, all the other things that he said, you know, there was some forum that he was on
1:19:31
rugby league forum and they were posting pictures of the girls the women who play
1:19:37
and then he was saying oh english women they don't care all they want to do with their fat bellies
1:19:43
etc etc etc then there was some uh european women then he was saying oh you know oh you wouldn't get
1:19:52
me off them with a bazooka you know all this stuff stuff about abortion i mean it's just
1:19:58
disgusting stuff and it's not just one comment it's a tirade of online abuse and every woman
1:20:08
listening who has had that will know how it makes them feel and so I am angry that a political party
1:20:17
can take this person on one without obviously vetting him properly but also that they just
1:20:26
defend it and they're fine with that. He was not a politician at the time he was
1:20:31
an ordinary man from an ordinary place said Danny Kruger. Really that's what
1:20:37
yeah that's what posh boys who lead the Reform Party think of ordinary men. Well
1:20:44
ordinary men generally are lovely you know they really are. We do our best
1:20:52
And they respect women. All of that is true. But you have this growing minority who are extremely abusive
1:21:00
And I'm 65, James. And so I've been, you know, women my age, we've been through the hard years
1:21:07
So in the 70s, you know, I was a bright kid from a comp in North Wales, free school meals kid
1:21:16
and it took you know a lot to get to a Cambridge college because there were only
1:21:23
three girls colleges and I think four or five had gone what they called mixed so these were boys
1:21:31
colleges taking on women's colleges and it was like why wouldn't you you know I was from a boys
1:21:38
and girls comp but we had to go through that you had to be the first woman to do this first woman
1:21:44
from a state school in North Wales. First, you know, I think when I did engineering
1:21:50
there were about 300 students in our year. Four or five of them were girls
1:21:55
I worked underground, me and 2,000 men. So we have done the hard years over decades
1:22:03
All that I wanted to be a fighter pilot, you can't because you're a girl and you don't have the appendage that's required
1:22:08
All of this nonsense that we had to put up with. So for me, that this Reform Party is saying on day one, they would repeal the Equality Act
1:22:19
And we all know what that means So you know the protections against harassment of women in the workplace the equal pay maternity leave maternity pay all of that We going to scrap all those So it is indicative of the way in which this might go as we seen in America
1:22:41
I think talking of ordinary men, the person who pushed back against him on social media
1:22:46
was it was a rather better model of masculinity. Yes, absolutely. So he's the author, Chris Ryan, who is a former SAS hero, a very successful author
1:23:01
Chris is his pen name. And he absolutely defended me because he is a real man
1:23:09
He's not a pretend. He's a real guy and a guy who respects women
1:23:15
I suppose in some sense the writing was on the wall with the leadership of reform who have not responded by the way to our requests for a response to these allegations of misogyny including the comments directed at you
1:23:31
But when James Murdoch ended up in Parliament just after the last election and it quickly emerged that he'd been jailed for attacking a former girlfriend
1:23:40
Yes. And here is another example, a very serious example of reform to me, reforms, excuses for things
1:23:52
So I think it was a Times newspaper. He only got in with a majority of 98 votes
1:23:58
So imagine if this information had been available beforehand about him. so shortly after he was elected in 2024 as a reform mp i think it was a times newspaper found
1:24:12
that he had been convicted and served time for um assaulting his girlfriend he then said in his
1:24:20
defense oh it was a push then the official court documents show that she was on the floor he was
1:24:29
kicking her multiple times while she was on the floor and had to be dragged away by two security
1:24:36
guards. Very different stories. Richard Tice then defends it saying, oh, well, he's served his time
1:24:42
That was a long time ago. It doesn't matter. I am sorry. It matters. It matters to women
1:24:49
We know how much harassment online has increased and offline. So this is a time for all women to
1:24:58
stand up and say enough now we are not going backwards i suppose one example is is it could be
1:25:05
chalked up as accidental or carelessness but two examples and and emerging patterns speak of
1:25:12
something altogether more sinister yes well that lee anderson bless him uh when he was a tory that
1:25:19
was after he was a labor yes and now he's reform correct well at the time of this conversation
1:25:24
we'll have to check before we play it out on the program tomorrow yeah yeah so he was uh
1:25:33
in the conservative party at the time and he was slinging insults to me all the time on twitter
1:25:39
in the days when we used to be on twitter and you know obviously now he's reformed he thinks
1:25:46
it's perfectly acceptable so there is a pattern there with this party and that is my concern
1:25:52
that they will, if they get into... And they've stated it out in the open
1:25:58
We will repeal the Equality Act. It's surprising to me when people like Danny Kruger
1:26:05
talk about ordinary people, an ordinary man for an ordinary place. When he went to Eton
1:26:10
Yeah, and also his mother is on telly as well, so she at least will be aware of the misogyny that can be
1:26:17
Pre-Leith, yeah. You'd think that that might have given him a slightly more sensitive insight
1:26:21
into what it's like for women like you and and you are tough I mean I don't mean that in a patronizing
1:26:25
way I take it as a compliment good I'm glad you do because you are perfectly capable of looking
1:26:31
after yourself a lot of women both online and offline are not of course and those are the kind
1:26:36
of women that um that misogynistic men prey on but the thing is I I have a tough skin now because
1:26:44
of all of the abuse over decades. And, you know, I can remember when I wore a short skirt to the BAFTAs
1:26:52
I was age 39. Well, it was like I'd killed my grandmother the next day
1:26:56
It was the question. Even the BBC made a whole Kilroy show about it
1:27:00
Flew this dress in, copy dress from Paris. And the question was, should a woman age 39 wear a dress above the knee
1:27:08
I mean, that's my lifetime. this isn't Victorian days or my mother or post-war this is me in my lifetime so you know as I go back
1:27:19
to the beginning women my age who love the fact that our daughters or nieces or grandchildren
1:27:28
can play football you know very happily can be applauded for what they do in sport can be oh
1:27:38
Oh, another thing that old Kenyon said was that women can't referee, drive, take directions
1:27:45
And he had a go at various female sports presenters on the telly
1:27:49
It's constant. It's consistent. So they're not up to the job. They're only there to tick a box
1:27:54
And then declaring, and from a political point of view, this is interesting
1:27:58
Actually stating, I'm sexist, sorry, but I am. Yeah. And then the defence from Reform UK becomes, these comments were made before he entered politics
1:28:06
He's perfectly entitled to his own personal opinion. That was three weeks ago
1:28:10
Yeah. Yeah. It's extraordinary that he can state that because Murdoch didn't get dropped by the party for the conviction for battering his ex
1:28:19
He got dropped after it emerged that he'd taken Covid loans out under the Covid support scheme
1:28:24
I think that's still ongoing. But to state I am sexist, sorry, but I am
1:28:29
Yeah. In 2024 would have probably been a career ending revelation. It should be, shouldn't it
1:28:36
Do you think we're going a bit backwards? I think we have the potential to go backwards
1:28:40
We now, you know, generally you go, oh, life's good, you know, doing this, that and the other
1:28:47
When I began my career as an engineer, funnily enough, not many women then were talking about having a career
1:28:56
because not many women have been to university and all of that
1:29:00
Now, thankfully, decades later, women are having careers. but also housing was a lot cheaper then so now we need to you need two incomes to fund a mortgage
1:29:13
generally in this country so the whole business of oh well we're going to scrap the law that says
1:29:21
about equal pay that's going to affect people directly and and this is what i want people to
1:29:28
understand really this is this is not just about a woman getting on a high horse about something
1:29:35
this is very very very couldn't be more serious and and yeah it is of course people like nigel
1:29:41
ferrige and sarah pochin who claim that they're the party dedicated to protecting women and
1:29:45
children i mean it's beyond irony it emerged yesterday that one in five of the people arrested
1:29:50
over the riots in 2024 which many people feel were fermented by nigel ferrige's social media
1:29:57
activity, one in five of the people people arrested over those riots have since been reported to the police for domestic abuse
1:30:05
So to simultaneously encourage and excuse the misogyny that's been directed at you and at other
1:30:11
women while claiming and of course to put a violent offender into parliament and say that
1:30:17
that's not an excluding offence while simultaneously claiming that they act for
1:30:21
women and children is it's beyond parody isn't it? And those same people who were arrested there
1:30:27
There were almost 900 of them, weren't there, about the riots across the country. At the time, 41% had already been reported to the police for domestic abuse
1:30:38
So who are the women and children they're dedicated to protecting? Well, quite. And who are they protecting them from
1:30:43
None. It's good to see you. I knew that you would be unperturbed by this, but enraged
1:30:50
Yes, I am. And are you expecting an apology? I know you've demanded
1:30:54
Well, you've politely asked. No, you did not demand anything. I can't demand anything
1:30:58
I have asked for an apology. Not for me, but for all of us and for his comments
1:31:05
So far, I think we're on day three. Nothing. Not even a whisper
1:31:11
Nothing. Nothing. He's still running away, hiding away from cameras. Maybe don't hold your breath
1:31:20
Carol, thank you. Thanks, James. Still waiting. I hope she didn't hold her breath
1:31:26
We got a statement from Reform. Councillor Kenyon made these comments before entering politics
1:31:30
We are confident that he is an excellent candidate who will be a superb local MP for Makerfield
1:31:35
And a full list of all the candidates running there can be found at lbc.co.uk
1:31:42
Mention there of Sarah Pochin, the one who said that she hates seeing black faces
1:31:45
and brown faces on the television. Have I had an apology yet, Martha, of the Bury St Edmunds lot
1:31:50
who cross with me, call me subhuman for suggesting there are a lot of racists in their ranks
1:31:55
Anyway, their MP who doesn't like seeing black faces or brown faces, an MP for that party that definitely doesn't have a lot of racists in its ranks
1:32:02
She got a little mention there. Henry Riley is going to mention her again after this
1:32:07
James O'Brien on LBC. It is 11.52. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:32:15
Now, listen, it's Thursday. It is Thursday. I've got the time wrong twice this week
1:32:20
I hope I haven't actually got the day of the week wrong. It is Thursday, right, Henry? Well done
1:32:24
Thank you, Henry. Henry Riley's in the house. And that means it's Mystery Hour at 12 noon
1:32:30
But we're not taking any calls, which means I won't have taken a call since before half past
1:32:35
And sometimes when I don't take calls for it, something happens to your brain, and you don't realise that you can..
1:32:40
So anyway, if you want to get onto Mystery Hour, stand by your phone, because it will be kicking off in about eight minutes' time
1:32:47
Before that, Henry Wright, we are not slow to criticise politicians on this programme
1:32:51
and particularly when they come from a party that seems to be populated by people possessed of very vile opinions
1:32:57
or in the most recent example, giving speeches in the council chamber to which they've just been elected
1:33:04
explaining why they don't understand anything, and therefore politics should stop until they... I forget the details
1:33:11
So it's nice to tell you that Henry Riley is here with a very uplifting tale of a Reform UK MP helping a little old lady from her constituency
1:33:21
Hmm, that's right. This all stems from a video, James, posted by Sarah Pochin
1:33:26
who you'll recall won in that by-election, safe Labour seat previously. She won by only six votes
1:33:32
She is the MP for Runcorn and Hellsby, and she posted yesterday across her social media channels
1:33:38
across X, formerly Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook, with a video, and the caption said
1:33:44
helping people like Ethel is why I love my job. And in the video, Ethel claims
1:33:48
that within two days of speaking with the reform, she was getting the help she needed, and specifically sites
1:33:53
an adapted two-bedroom bungalow. Curiously, though, James, within a few hours, the video was deleted from all of those social media channels
1:34:02
Fortunately, I recorded it, and this was what Ethel says in that video
1:34:08
And I was begging for help, and I didn't get a bit of help, and one day I was up in the city, and I seen this office
1:34:13
and I thought, wait a minute, that's an ideal fire. I said, I think that man would help, because he's for people
1:34:18
is for people like me and I came in this office and within five minutes of speaking to the man
1:34:25
I was getting the help I needed and within two days I get the offer of a two-bedroom bungle
1:34:31
that was fully adapt well they fully adapted it took me months to get into it but they fully adapted
1:34:35
it for me and they helped my son get a flat yeah his first flat and he got me his flat but Sarah
1:34:43
You should be in government. You should be in government now because everybody needs your help
1:34:48
Thank you. Everybody needs your help. Thank you. And we're not getting it anywhere. We're not getting the help we need
1:34:54
And if this office opened up, I would still be in that bungalow
1:34:57
and possibly the same could be dead. And that's quite true. Aww, it's lovely
1:35:03
Well, they deleted modesty, was it? Because you just sort of thought, you know, I'm here to quietly get on
1:35:07
with improving people's lives. It's probably a bit inappropriate of me to be boasting about it
1:35:12
and trying to make political capital out of this little old lady's plight? No, that's not the reason that it was deleted, James
1:35:17
Because I can reveal two things about Ethel. It is Ethel McGill, who, I mean, firstly, is actually an amateur actor
1:35:23
whose acting CV says she plays a variety of roles from hard-hearted Glaswegian women
1:35:31
as well as other victims in her acting career. But more notably, she was dubbed by the Daily Mirror newspaper in 2019
1:35:39
as Britain's biggest benefits cheat. after her involvement in a benefits scam
1:35:44
Sorry, what, pardon? Yes, Ethel McGill. And if you search Ethel Runcorn
1:35:48
I mean, it comes up pretty quickly on a Google search. This is back in 20..
1:35:52
Ethel Runcorn? So, because it's a rare... Not even Ethel McGill... No, just the Christian name
1:35:57
And the town. And this is what you discover. It's what we discovered. Let me take you back to 2019, James
1:36:03
just to sort of understand the magnitude of this. So she was involved, convicted
1:36:07
of a £740,000 benefits scam. Sorry, what, pardon? The specialist prosecutor in the specialist fraud division at the CPS
1:36:15
the Crown Prosecution Service, said it was the largest case of benefit fraud by a single person that I've ever prosecuted
1:36:21
Now, important to say... And they got her a flat. They got her son a flat and they got her a bungalow. That is what Ethel claims in the video
1:36:26
Let me just take... Reform, by the way, Sarah Pochin says that they can't obviously vet who comes in
1:36:30
They get often 30 people a day coming into their office. They're trying to help. They can't do background checks
1:36:35
However, in this particular case... They could have Googled Ethel Wankorn. They could have Googled Ethel Wankorn, I suppose
1:36:40
Ms. McGill, who's in her 70s, continued to claim her father Robert Dennison's war pension
1:36:45
and his benefits for 12 years after his death, as well as feigning dementia
1:36:51
and claiming that she needed a wheelchair. However, investigators in the Department for Work and Pensions
1:36:56
actually filmed her walking around and driving despite claiming that she had debilitating illnesses for 30 years
1:37:02
At the time, the judge said, nobody, including me, believes that you're ill
1:37:06
and that you've been putting this on for years. He said that she displayed breathtaking dishonesty and devious behavior
1:37:13
Now, she ends up admitting fraud. She was jailed for five years and 10 months, pleading guilty to 14 charges
1:37:19
from conspiracy to commit fraud false accounting false representation at Liverpool Crown Court With regards to her late father it was revealed at the court that she would ask a friend to lie in bed and pretend to be her father when the department for work and pensions authorities
1:37:35
would visit the house the prosecutor at the time accused her of making good use of her amateur
1:37:40
dramatic skills by fading dementia and to succeed in her own fraudulent benefit claims but this was
1:37:47
uploaded by Reform, the caption had said from Sarah Pochin that she was
1:37:54
helping people like Ethel is why I love my job. There aren't
1:37:58
many people like Ethel. She is, as you said, one of the worst offenders
1:38:02
ever. One of the worst offenders ever. I do need to tell you what Sarah Pochin
1:38:06
has said in response to Reform UK MP. Her statement to us says
1:38:10
I try to be a hard-working local MP and I'm prepared to help anyone in Runcorn
1:38:14
and Hellsby who asks for my help. As an MP, I have to take people at face value
1:38:19
We do not run background checks on people who come to us asking for support
1:38:23
My default is to trust constituents who ask us for help. I understand the individual concerned has served her time for benefit fraud
1:38:30
and the matters on which my office assisted her were entirely unrelated to that offence
1:38:35
Reform UK stands against benefit fraud and abuse of the system. Indeed, it's made very clear in their last manifesto, or the contract with the people, as they called it
1:38:43
that that is the case. They have a harder line stance than many other parties on benefits, but the last line they say
1:38:48
a responsible Member of Parliament must also deal with each case on its merits and support constituents who come forward asking for help
1:38:55
Fourteen charges, including conspiracy to commit fraud, false accounting, false representation. Do we know whether or not, because the, do we know whether the account in the video that they took down is accurate
1:39:10
Do we know whether she did actually get a new bungalow and a flat for her son after the intervention of Sarah Pochin in her affairs
1:39:18
Yeah, well, she claims in the video, Ethel McGill, that within two days she was sorted with this adaptive bungalow
1:39:24
Sort of the understanding I have is that reform obviously can't do that
1:39:30
Sarah Pochin can't demand a bungalow for someone as much as you might want to as a local MP
1:39:34
but there is an understanding that in cases like this if the local MP leans on the council
1:39:38
or leans on someone, not necessarily saying this has happened in this case, but
1:39:42
if you do lean, and MPs do this all the time but put a bit of pressure on, you can
1:39:46
in some way speed up the process or certainly make clear your constituents
1:39:50
needs help. And a flat for her son as well. I mean, it does seem
1:39:54
like a bit of a jackpot. And I think it's fair to say Reform UK
1:39:58
were not aware that she was the it is fair to say that they were not
1:40:03
aware that she was done to the biggest benefits cheat. No, no, no. They would have been aware
1:40:07
Although, as you've pointed out, you could just Google Ethel Runcorn and you'd have found
1:40:11
chapter and verse on her involvement in a £740,000 benefit scam. And was uploaded on all the social media channels, as I say, and deleted just a couple of hours later
1:40:20
Largest case of benefit fraud by a single person that I, said the special prosecutor in the
1:40:25
specialist fraud division at the CPS, have ever prosecuted. While you're here, have you got any contacts in Bury St Edmunds
1:40:33
specifically on the reform branch no I don't I'm afraid sorry call me subhuman
1:40:38
oh did they call me subhuman yeah I did see that it was a post wasn't it on them
1:40:42
on the subhuman mate that's the Nazis that's the sort of language the Nazis
1:40:46
use and you know what happened when we got in touch with them gone they asked for our help it's a kid if you hear anything about who might have hacked our
1:40:52
account would you let us know I've got back in touch them immediately so it was almost certainly the Russians must have been it's 12 oh one James O'Brien on LBC
1:41:00
Good Lord, is it that time already? A weekly opportunity to achieve the sort of satisfaction
1:41:06
that you can't find anywhere else on the radio. Have you got any mysteries in your life
1:41:12
Riddles, conundrums, enigmas even. Is that the plural? Is it enigma or enigma
1:41:18
Enigmas, I think, would go with. And the point is, somebody else who is listening to this radio programme
1:41:23
and let's be honest, there is more listening to this radio programme going on currently
1:41:28
than to any other speech-based radio program in the history of commercial radio in this country
1:41:34
I can't believe it either, but it's true. So the chances are there is somebody listening
1:41:38
who knows the answer to your question, who has the resolution to your dilemma
1:41:43
who can solve your riddle, iron out your enigma and complete your conundrum
1:41:51
Speaking of which, a lot of love and support for Carol Horderman coming into the studio
1:41:54
as you would expect. I'll explain completely after this. And that was this, just the dun-dun-dun
1:42:02
Someone rings in, possibly you, 03456060973, asks a question, a who, a why, a when, a where, a wither
1:42:10
even the occasional wherefore. Very few whences, but you never know your luck. And then someone else rings in, 03456060973
1:42:17
with the answer to the previously asked questions. That's it, really. If you are lucky enough
1:42:25
because it is a little bit whimsical and arbitrary, but if I decide that your contribution is, was, will be my favourite of the entire week
1:42:34
then you win a Mystery Hour game. Now, you may have noticed if you haven't tuned in for a while
1:42:40
I did not say board game. I said game because there are now two, count them, one, two, Mystery Hour games
1:42:46
The board game and the travel game, which is in a tin
1:42:52
And it fits in your pocket, fits in the back pocket of your jeans, although it leaves a slightly bumpy outline
1:43:00
And you can find out more about those games at mysteryhour.co.uk. You can also find the full terms and conditions for this
1:43:07
because although it may not sound like it, this is a professional radio operation presented by a professional presenter
1:43:13
and it is a proper professional competition. So the full terms and conditions can be found at lbc.co.uk
1:43:21
Okay. I think that pretty much covers it. 12.07 is the time. Mystery hour is upon us
1:43:27
Let the revels commence. Neil's in Farnham. Neil, question or answer? I've got a question, please, James
1:43:34
Carry on, Neil. So I went to the ballet yesterday for the first time ever
1:43:38
with the lovely Tracy. How did you get on? Yeah, I loved it. I loved it. It was great. It was really good
1:43:43
But what I was wondering was why the royal box is always to one side of the auditorium
1:43:48
It's always on the right-hand side as you face the stage. why isn't it bang in the middle
1:43:52
So surely the best view would be right from the very middle of the gallery
1:43:56
or something, rather than on the side. And if you go to sports events
1:44:00
the Royal Box is always in the middle of the pitch, isn't it? Or the middle of the side of the pitch
1:44:04
Yeah, I think so. It's a good question, that. Where were you
1:44:09
We were at the London Palladium. What was the ballet? Is it the Matthew..
1:44:13
Well, it's on there at the moment. I have a guess. I have a guess which one it was. Is it the Matthew Bourne one
1:44:18
It's the Dracula. Oh, yes. Yes, oh, yeah, I bet that is good
1:44:23
Oh, it's fantastic. I really enjoyed it. I mean, one of the answers will be ease of ingress and egress, won't it
1:44:31
So that they can get in and out without having to use the plebs entrances and exits
1:44:36
Yeah, maybe. Not buying that. Martha's shaking her head. Martha's producing the show for the first time today
1:44:41
I don't know if you've been able to detect any decline or improvement in the general production of the programme
1:44:46
but she's shaking her head quite... I'm not going to lie to you, mate. She's shaking her head quite contemptuously, which is pretty bold for your first day in the shift
1:44:54
If the royals are there don they want everyone to see them going down to the royal box and stuff don they They get in and out They wave at those plebs from the royal box They don want to be jostling with us at the bar when they queuing up for a vimto do they
1:45:05
Well, they can put some sort of red rope around it and give them a clear passageway, can't they? Is it all..
1:45:09
Well, then, is it so that the performers can acknowledge them more easily
1:45:13
Because, you know, if you're sitting at the back in the middle, you'd be squished. She's shaking her head again. Do you know the answer to this
1:45:18
Or are you just poo-pooing all my theories? But then they're going to end up... The form is going with a crick neck looking at the roars
1:45:22
rather than looking straight ahead, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird one, isn't it
1:45:27
I'll tell you what, I'd be surprised if it didn't go back to George III. Why would that be George III then
1:45:34
Just very often in these moments, it's George III. It just is
1:45:40
You have to loosen it up on that. I've not anymore. I've just waited to see if Martha shakes her head, and she hasn't
1:45:44
I think it might be down to George III, but I could be wrong. Yeah
1:45:49
I like that. I don't think they're all going to be like that but certainly in London theatres
1:45:54
Well I think it wasn't the what's the name of John Wilkes Booth, that was on the side as well
1:45:59
that was in a theatre in America wasn't it? When he killed Abraham Lincoln Why you'd think that
1:46:05
the most plum seats in the place would be the ones with the best view
1:46:09
Yes, that's my question why aren't they the ones with the best view? Cool, I think in the Royal Albert Hall
1:46:15
it's quite central, I could be wrong But anyway, we'll do it
1:46:19
It's on the board. Nice one. And long may your enthusiasm for both ballet and the lovely Tracy continue
1:46:26
Thank you, Neil. Claire's in Leeds. Claire, question or answer? Oh, hi, James
1:46:30
It's a question. Carry on. So why is popcorn synonymous with going to the cinema
1:46:38
Where does that come from? That's a nice question, actually, isn't it
1:46:42
Yeah, well, I was at the cinema this week. What did you see
1:46:46
It's the most practical food for the... It's actually quite annoying. It's quite annoying
1:46:51
It's not just rustily when you... I mean, it's crunchy to eat and rustily to deliver to your mouth
1:46:56
It's, you know, if someone opened a bag of crisps in the cinema, you'd be quite cross with them. Although, I suppose it's quieter than crisps, isn't it
1:47:03
Quieter than crisps, but they give you so much. You can't get a small amount, can you
1:47:09
When you go to the pictures, you always get either a bucket... Well, I know why that is, because it's so cheap
1:47:15
Well... The markup on popcorn is the biggest markup in the history of markups
1:47:19
It's absolutely extraordinary, the markup on popcorn. I used to see them deliver it to the cinema next door here
1:47:25
because you'd always thought they'd make it on site, but they don't. And you should see the size of the sacks of popcorn
1:47:30
I don't know why I was transported by it. I just never really imagined that anybody would be driving sacks the size of
1:47:37
like, you know, two men. These massive plastic tubes full of popcorn, driving them around London
1:47:42
But the markup is absolutely... I mean, it's practically free to make popcorn
1:47:46
and then they charge you five quid for a bucket of it, so they might as well give you loads so that you don't sort of wake up to what a massive rip-off it is
1:47:54
Yeah, and it can't be easy to clean up as well, because it must get everywhere
1:47:58
So I don't understand why it became a thing. It's got to be an American
1:48:02
It's a bit like, do you know what it reminds me of a bit? Turkey
1:48:08
Turkey? Yeah, Turkey. How so? Well, if turkey was that nice, then we'd have it more than once a year, wouldn't we
1:48:18
Oh, I like turkey. Yeah, I know, but you only have a big roast bird at Christmas Day, right
1:48:23
Yeah, true. Yeah, and if popcorn was that delicious, then we'd have it at home and we'd eat it all over the place
1:48:29
Yet generally, I know that popcorn's more popular now than it was when I was a kid, but generally, we don't
1:48:36
We don't have popcorn except when we're at the cinema. No. I don't even like it that much, personally
1:48:42
I'm not a big fan either. Right, you're on. Why? Why? Popcorn and cinnamon
1:48:45
I've got a feeling we might have done it before, but I can't remember, Claire, and you weren't listening, so let's pretend it's all in time
1:48:51
It's all new. It's all new. Thank you. I don't think the answer to this one is going to involve George III
1:48:57
but if it does, I'll give you the game, all right? Twelve minutes after twelve
1:49:02
Neil's in partial. Neil, question or answer? Hi there, James. I've got a question, please
1:49:07
Yes. I was walking down the street the other day and I saw a couple of old fellas
1:49:13
a couple of lovely old boys, dressed up to the nines and kind of sewed and booted
1:49:18
and a funeral procession, a hearse, came past and they took off their hats and held them to their chest
1:49:24
which was a lovely gesture. I've seen this in lots of old films. I do it. I do it, you know
1:49:29
I walk around wearing a baseball cap, or in winter I wear a beanie
1:49:35
and if ever a hearse goes by, occupied house i always take my hat off yeah but why do we do that why the hat and where do they
1:49:43
originate from well you have to take men have to take their hats off in church right they are
1:49:50
supposed to and and sometimes women are supposed to cover their heads i think that holds true in
1:49:55
more than christianity and other abrahamic religions as well so i mean historically a
1:50:01
funeral would always have a religious dimension even though it doesn't anymore so maybe just a
1:50:06
sort of translation of respect. It's a mark of respect for a man to take his hat off
1:50:11
when he goes into church, and it is therefore a mark of respect for a man to take his hat off
1:50:14
when a hearse on the way to the church or on the way from the church goes by, maybe
1:50:19
Yeah, I guess so. I'm not taking a round of applause for that, Neil, but we'd hope for something a little bit more sophisticated, wouldn't we
1:50:25
Oh, OK. Can I have a board game? No, absolutely not, mate, no
1:50:30
OK, never mind. Fine, there you go. Give my love to Worcestershire. I could say give my regards to Broadway
1:50:35
but that would be quite niche, wouldn't it? It's coming up to quarter past twelve
1:50:40
You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. The Royal Box, the popcorn and the hats
1:50:45
Anybody wearing a hat while eating popcorn and sitting in a Royal Box would be supremely well qualified
1:50:50
or at least would be very well placed to win this week's Mystery Hour game
1:50:55
James O'Brien on LBC. 16 is the time you're listening to Mystery Hour
1:51:00
with James O'Brien on LBC. I don't know why, Jordan, the thought of me and a baseball cap
1:51:04
would make you laugh out loud. I'm rocking a Keith Haring baseball cap at the moment
1:51:08
courtesy of a very fashionable young label called Uniklo. Have you heard of Uniklo
1:51:14
Uniklo. That's where I get my baseball caps from. Simeon is in Tampere in Finland
1:51:20
Simeon, question or answer? Hi, a question, please. Is it Tampere, Tampere, Tampiri
1:51:25
Tampere. Tampere. Tampere in Finland. That's a lot of different ways to spell it, yep. Carry on
1:51:30
Yeah, so basically, if you've got a famous group group or a pair or a trio
1:51:36
is there any sort of linguistic or grammatical or underlying reason for the order of names
1:51:42
Like, you know, you've got Bonnie and Clyde and Tom and Jerry. Yes. Like, why is it Tom and Jerry and not Jerry and Tom
1:51:51
I like this question. I mean, the answer's no. Yeah, I think so as well
1:51:56
I think the answer's no. But the problem is that... because Bonnie and Clyde and Tom and Jerry are really good examples
1:52:03
because I mean it is just about the way it feels on the tongue isn't it
1:52:07
it's like it trips off the tongue more neatly but Jerry and Tom sounds nice actually
1:52:12
it doesn't sound bad Tom and Jerry, Jerry and Tom Tom and Jerry, Tom and Jerry, Tom
1:52:16
so you start with the plosive Bonnie and Clyde, Tom and Jerry, Bonnie and Clyde
1:52:21
but then I could go Tom and Jerry, Bonnie and Clyde imagine someone who just tuned in now Simeon they be wondering what the hell is going on on their radio Bonnie and Clyde I also thought about it a long time and I think unfortunately there is no reason to it
1:52:36
because I think I can come up with counterexamples for everything. I've thought about the number of syllables
1:52:43
I've thought about consonants. I've thought about vowels. I think in quite some of the older ones, like Romeo and Juliet
1:52:49
Mickey and Minnie, it's going to be gender-based. Maybe, yeah, maybe. Laurel and Hardy
1:52:55
I know that's not gender-based. Hardy and Laurel. It just sounds better. I imagine, because I think about this quite often, oddly
1:53:01
because I'm weird like you, because you kind of think that if you went first
1:53:07
you were more prominent. But it's not really true in a double act. Nobody thinks of Stan Laurel as being the senior partner
1:53:14
in Laurel and Hardy, do they? Or Gareth Hale being the senior partner in Hale and Pace
1:53:20
But if it's a business, I wonder if you would want your name to come first
1:53:24
so you have a chat about what sounds better you know if it was James and Keith
1:53:29
Keith and James what sounds better and Keith and James I'd have to admit that Keith and James
1:53:34
sounds better than James and Keith so Keith would go first it just somehow sounds better
1:53:38
so I think it's going to be entirely subjective and arbitrary don't you
1:53:44
Yeah I also have to go with subjective and I also think Keith and James sounds a bit better sorry
1:53:49
It does sound a bit better, doesn't it, Keith and James? So my friend Richard has got a tailor's company
1:53:56
I went to visit him a couple of months ago in the city, and his name comes second, and it sounds right second
1:54:02
but it could easily have come first. It just had a sort of ring to it. Anyway, I'll put it on the board and see if anyone knows
1:54:07
Is there any rhyme or reason to the order of names in famous acts or partnerships or groupings
1:54:16
Is there any rhyme or reason to the order of names in things, in multiples
1:54:21
Thank you, Simeon. I like that. Nineteen minutes after twelve is the time
1:54:25
O'Brien and Riley's reform roundup. Riley and O'Brien. O'Brien and Riley. O'Brien and Riley, isn't it
1:54:31
Da-da-da-da-da-da. Da-da-da-da-da-da. O'Brien and Riley. Riley and O'Brien. O'Brien and Riley. Henry and James, though. Not James and Henry
1:54:39
Henry and James. Not James and Henry. Again, if you've just tuned into this programme, I am quite well
1:54:44
Please don't worry. Don's in Winchester Don, question or answer? Don, who are you whispering to
1:54:52
Oh, my missus What were you saying? I was saying Imelda, turn on the radio
1:54:56
I'm just about to ask a question No, but Imelda, if she turns on the radio you won't be able to hear me properly
1:55:01
and it will echo in the background That's right, I've gone upstairs So hopefully, yes
1:55:05
What were you whispering then? She can't hear you if she's downstairs, Don
1:55:09
I just want her to admire me Well, I mean, maybe by a thong
1:55:14
go on then what's your question my question is this no hang on sorry don sorry all right
1:55:21
imelda how's it going i hope everything's all right down there in winchester hey look at don
1:55:26
hey look at that what a fine figure of a man he is hey you're a lucky lady sorry don carry on
1:55:30
we'll definitely listen to the uh to the recording um so so the question is as a man of culture i'm
1:55:39
sure you've sometimes wandered into a cathedral and i've done it too occasionally and if there's
1:55:46
an organ playing you get to the end of whatever they're playing and you've got this huge noise
1:55:52
echoing through the cathedral and then when the organ player stops it carries on echoing for for a
1:56:01
bit of a millisecond and then it seems to go flat it's almost like it's the it's not like they've
1:56:08
played the last night flat. Blimey, this is niched on. Well, it's been on my mind
1:56:12
for years. That's what Mr. Hours 4. So is it the echo? It's the echo that goes flat
1:56:18
It's the echo that's flat. So it's not coming out of the organ. It's resonating around
1:56:22
the building. And it's that resonance which kind of drops down a half tone and you think, hold on a sec, that sounds flat
1:56:29
Not being a completely accomplished musician. And at this point, the organ is not making any noise at this
1:56:36
point. The organ itself. It's finished. I was working on the idea that it might have been
1:56:41
the wind emerging from the organ at the end of the piece of music or something like that
1:56:48
through the pipes, but not if it's the echo that is going flat. I guess either someone is listening to this now
1:56:54
and just go, oh yes, of course, the famous or everyone is doing what I'm doing and going
1:56:59
are you quite all right, Don? Are you sure about this? So if there's an answer, we'll get it, and if there isn't, we won't
1:57:06
That's what I was hoping for. Don and Imelda, Imelda and Don
1:57:10
It'd be Imelda and Don. I think Don and Imelda. Are you Imelda and Don or Don and Imelda
1:57:15
Oh, well, yeah, I think we swap. But do you? Because I was going to say it's actually quite hard to call this one
1:57:22
Some of them are really easy, like Keith and James. But Don and Imelda, Imelda and Don
1:57:26
they've both got a certain ring to them, haven't they? I wouldn't presume to put my name before hers
1:57:31
Oh, I like that. What do you put on your Christmas cards? I sign them usually first
1:57:37
and then Imelda embellishes it Very nice, 22 minutes after 12 my love to you both
1:57:42
The organ that goes the echoing organ in a cathedral goes flat right at the end, why
1:57:49
0345 6060 973 I'll tell you what, we get the answer to that, I'll give you the money myself
1:57:53
Is there any rhyme or reason to the order in which names appear in famous groupings
1:57:57
like Tom and Jerry or Morecambe and Wise I grant you, Haylon Pace was a bit of an odd one
1:58:01
to pluck out of the memory banks there very talk about niche
1:58:06
Hats. Why do we take our hats off when a hearse goes by? Why do we eat popcorn
1:58:11
What started the relationship between popcorn and cinemas? And why is the Royal Box in such a stupid place
1:58:16
insofar as it doesn't have a very good view of the stage
1:58:21
Kay's in Wokingham. Kay, question or answer? Question, please. Thank you for taking my call
1:58:26
Carry on, Kay. All right, so this sounds really bizarre, but I like to give you
1:58:31
even when I'm cleaning like now. That's not bizarre. I've got the upstairs television on
1:58:36
Oh, yes. I've got the downstairs television on. Ooh, fancy. Fancy, fancy
1:58:39
But the thing is, there's like a time delay between the upstairs and the downstairs television
1:58:45
Really? So they're both televisions? They're both televisions. It's not like a radio and a television
1:58:51
No, like, you know, you have your app kind of thing on the television system
1:58:56
so I'm on the LBC app, and there's a time delay. On both televisions, you're on the LBC
1:59:00
You're talking to the gentleman beforehand. Yes. What you were saying, because I was listening to you on the phone as well
1:59:06
Right. There's a delay in, like, the conversation, and it's like one conversation
1:59:11
one sentence behind every single time. Well, there's a delay between... There's a delay between..
1:59:17
There's a delay between... There's a delay between what you hear on the radio
1:59:22
out of your radio, and what you would hear when you were waiting on the phone, because I'm ten seconds behind myself
1:59:27
Okay, on the phone, I appreciate that. As in case you swear. So why on the radio there's a delay
1:59:32
But I just need to clarify a few points here. Sure, sure. Like, this is as if I'm working in customer service for a technology company
1:59:39
So are you, so both, you're listening to both programs on the television, about two different televisions
1:59:48
Yes. One upstairs, one downstairs? Yes. And on both televisions, you're listening in the same way
1:59:54
It's not, you're not listening on Sky, on one of them, and on the app on the other one? No
2:00:00
Exactly the same way. Well, I'm damned if I know. I'm really confused
2:00:06
I can never understand. Even when I put music on, I don't understand. What's the delay
2:00:10
How do you know? For sure, because you can't hear them both at the same time, can you? Well, when I'm upstairs, and then I come downstairs and get something
2:00:17
Oh, and you get like an echo. You hear the thing that you just heard. Yes
2:00:20
Oh. So downstairs is behind upstairs. It's been bothering me for months
2:00:25
It's been bothering me. Downstairs is behind upstairs. downstairs is lagging behind
2:00:32
I haven't checked that. The downstairs is... I haven't checked that bit, no. No
2:00:36
But if they're both on the same wavelength, then they are both connected... Because I've got two radios by my bed
2:00:42
and they tell the different time, and it's because one of them's digital and one of them isn't or something like that
2:00:46
I forget the exact details. But this is... So two televisions deploying the same app
2:00:52
but playing out LBC at slightly different times. Yes. Yeah. I hear the same sentence over again
2:01:00
if I go... Well, that might just be me repeating myself. I do that quite a lot. No, Mr. O'Brien
2:01:07
No, it's not... OK. I mean... Yeah, why would that be? It can be..
2:01:12
You're not alone if it's any consolation. It's been bothering me for ages. It's bothering me for ages
2:01:18
I just need to find out. I know... You know how you have a bugbear? I just need to know
2:01:22
I just need to know. Well, I will find out for you. I will do my damnedest
2:01:26
I mean, if it's any consolation, you're not alone. There's lots of people getting in touch now
2:01:31
to say that they have very similar things, very similar problems going on, but it has to be identical mode of listening
2:01:37
That's the point, because otherwise it will be something to do with digital versus og or FM if you're in London
2:01:43
I like this question. I think that's... How many routers have you got
2:01:50
I've got one router and I've got a booster. No, I've got two
2:01:55
yeah but I've got a booster as well because we do a lot of our gaming
2:01:59
and stuff so you need to have extra I wonder could one of them
2:02:04
be coming off the original route from one of them I can't believe I'm saying this out loud
2:02:07
I've got no understanding or not. What sort of games do you play
2:02:13
Oh so at the moment we're in Valhalla with Assassin's Creed. Oh lovely
2:02:17
lovely. I think I'm going to get the new James Bond game for this
2:02:22
weekend. Have you seen that yet? No. It only came out yesterday
2:02:26
Kay, I said it only came out yesterday. That was another lag there, Kay. That was extraordinary, wasn't it
2:02:33
There's nothing I can do now. I was going to think of getting her to play the radio, but that would just sound weird
2:02:37
and everyone would think their own radios had gone doolally. Why is Kay getting a lag of a few seconds
2:02:42
about a sentence, between two televisions playing the same radio station? Probably, actually, I think we could say with some confidence
2:02:49
playing the most listened-to speech radio programme in the history of commercial..
2:02:55
Oh, it's repeating itself again. Thank you, Kay. Mark's in Painton in Devon
2:03:00
Mark, question or answer? It's a question. Carry on, Mark. So I'm busy been painting on the puppet..
2:03:06
Sorry, mate, where are you again? I'm in Painton. Okay, what have you been doing
2:03:12
Applying paint. Oh, you spoilsport. Carry on. So, yeah, I've been painting a puppet theatre
2:03:19
which is what I do as a puppeteer. Oh, lovely. And I'm struggling because with the heat
2:03:26
the heat dries the paint incredibly quick. I use coach enamel mainly
2:03:31
Oh, yes. If you do it outside, say early evening when it's a bit cooler
2:03:35
you get bugs on it. So my partner's in Spain at the moment
2:03:40
and I asked her how do they get glossy finishes in Spain
2:03:44
and she had no idea, and I've got no idea. So you've done a little coat
2:03:49
And before it's dried, bugs have landed on it? If you do it outside, yes
2:03:55
So, obviously... So, sign writing. I mean, how bad are many bugs? I mean, I know one is bad
2:04:00
You don't want any bugs on a pristine puppet theatre. No, what I'm doing at the moment with the stripes
2:04:05
is the colour is attracting them. So, you just get them literally covered
2:04:11
They're just attracted to the colours. Really? Yeah. So, how in a very..
2:04:16
So, yeah, I mean, this is actually a really interesting question, isn't it
2:04:20
I was going to say it's really bugging me but yeah well played painting and painting yes so
2:04:25
so yeah he's painting and painting and he's bug by bugs yeah so at the moment
2:04:30
I'm able to bring in the panels inside and do and turn the extraction fan on
2:04:34
but if I was working it if it was a sort of a theatre which was too big
2:04:39
to paint inside and I'd have to do it outside it would just be absolutely caped in bugs
2:04:43
well I mean could you be I mean are you near a bug base
2:04:47
as it were I mean are you near like marshy waters? Well, only talky, but..
2:04:51
Come on, I'm being serious. I mean, it could be that you just have..
2:04:55
Where you are has a lot of bugs, and if you went half a mile up the road
2:05:00
then you wouldn't have this problem. Well, I'm on a hill overlooking the sea
2:05:04
but I had the same problem when I used to paint the shows when I lived in Gloucestershire at my parents
2:05:09
Are you a professional sign writer or a professional puppeteer? Professional puppeteer
2:05:15
And so you do your own theatres? and for other people as well
2:05:20
And for other people as well. What a lovely job, Mark. Well, it has its ups and downs
2:05:25
There's no pun there, is there? Well, no. I know, I thought there..
2:05:30
Well, I suppose there are ups and downs, aren't there, because you're pulling it up and..
2:05:33
Was that a pun that I missed? Uh, no. Oh, OK. Do you want a free advert at all
2:05:39
You don't have to. I'd be happy to. Well, I'm Poulton's Seaside Punch and Judy
2:05:43
based in Paynton, and I'm one of the last puppeteers who still works on the beach at Weymouth
2:05:48
Poulton Seaside Punch and Judy so say hello next time you encounter
2:05:52
Mark on his travels and by then hopefully we'll have got an answer to how you can paint your theatres
2:05:56
bug free we need to debug you yeah well I mean that would be one answer
2:06:02
but people need to paint stuff in hot weather and as you've pointed out in hot countries
2:06:06
so let's try and find out how do you keep the bugs out of your paint
2:06:11
when you're doing some painting in somewhere hot like painting, thank you Mark, take care
2:06:15
Amelia Cox has your headlines James O'Brien on LBC. It's 12.34, we need some answers
2:06:22
We need some answers to these questions. Why is the Royal Box, why does it not have a better view of the stage
2:06:28
Why is popcorn the snack of choice in cinemas? Why do we remove our hats when a horse goes by
2:06:34
Is there any rhyme or reason to the order of names in famous collaborations
2:06:39
like Tom and Jerry or John, Paul, George and Ringo? Lennon and McCartney's quite interesting, actually
2:06:44
Someone has pointed out to me. actually I should credit them with that because I think it's true that on the second it was going
2:06:49
to be McCartney-Lennon on the um on please please me but they realized that Lennon and McCartney
2:06:56
just sounds better so they were going to alternate it but they left it as Lennon and McCartney because
2:06:59
it's like Keith and James it just sounds better than James and Keith McCartney and Lennon doesn't
2:07:04
sound as good as Lennon and McCartney so there a rhythm to it but as as the as the questioner pointed out there there no rule because it not to do with consonants or vowels or syllables or anything It just about the way the words trip off the tongue
2:07:19
But is that true, or is there some rhyme or reason to it? What happens at the end of an organ recital, when the final note echoes around the cathedral and appears to go a bit flat at the end
2:07:32
I don't know, alright, but that's what Dan wants the answer to. why does Kay's two televisions
2:07:39
both playing LBC why is one of them a few seconds behind the other one or if you prefer
2:07:44
why is one of them a few seconds ahead of the other one and finally
2:07:48
paint in painting the paint in painting why does Mark how can Mark do painting
2:07:57
in painting without getting bugged by the bugs that land on the paint
2:08:02
that is in painting Okay, in hot weather, how do you stop bugs landing in your sticky paint
2:08:08
Darren is in Manchester. Darren, question or answer? I've played with a little question, James
2:08:12
That's all right, mate, carry on. So, if you imagine me and you were in a sort of rock band
2:08:17
and we're about to start to play, we'll go one, two, three, four
2:08:21
and then we'll play on four. Yeah, two, three, four. But if we're in like a dance group... We play on five, won't we
2:08:25
Don't we play on five? No, we go one, two, three, and on four, we still go five
2:08:29
All right, you're a musician, I'm not. There you go. There was a punk band called the Subhumans, apparently
2:08:34
I could have been in that, according to Barry St. Edmund's reform, but it's too late now
2:08:38
So, go on, yeah. So, music is one, two, three, four. Yeah, and if we're about to dance, we go five, six, seven, eight
2:08:44
and then we dance on eight. So, why do we do that? I've got a theory
2:08:49
Go on. Well, so that... Because it would be two different things, right
2:08:55
So, you're at a dance, and there's a band. Right? Yeah. So you want the band to start before the dancers do
2:09:05
So when you go one, two, three, four, that's for the band. And then the music starts and the dancers are all waiting
2:09:12
So you can't say one, two, three, four again, because that would be confusing. So you go five, six, seven, eight
2:09:17
and then all the dancers start dancing. It's just a theory. Not the prince change with that. No, I'm not surprised, frankly, but it's a theory
2:09:23
I said it was a theory. It's a theory. It's better than my theory. What's your theory
2:09:28
I don't have one, that's why I'm ringing you. Well, it is definitely better than yours, isn't it? Yeah
2:09:32
All right, you're on. Why don't we do 1, 2, 3, 4 for the music and 5, 6, 7, 8 for the dancing
2:09:37
Perfect. Lovely stuff. 0, 3, 4, 5. Thank you, James. Thank you, Darren. Darren and James, James and Darren
2:09:42
Darren and James. No, James is rubbish. James comes second in all of these things
2:09:46
I feel like, I feel like deck in Ant and Deck. It's never going to be deck and ant, is it
2:09:51
Deck and ant, ant and deck. Ant and deck, deck and ant. James and Darren, Darren and James
2:09:55
Danny's in Wimbledon. Danny, question or answer? It's an answer, please, James, to the Royal Box question
2:10:00
Oh, lovely stuff. It's very simply so that the audience are in a position
2:10:04
to have to see whoever's in the Royal Box as well as to see what's on the stage
2:10:08
Fudge, of course it is. So in the olden times when they were first built
2:10:14
these Royal Boxes, obviously they'd be sat there and all their splendory while everyone else had to look at them
2:10:20
and say, wow, how splendid is that person? And also it's because it makes them closer to the stage
2:10:24
so that anyone on the stage can sort of play jokes to them
2:10:27
play tragedy. You'd get that particularly at the Palladium, wouldn't you? For the Royal Variety stuff where they'd be
2:10:34
doing jokes directed directly at the Royal Box and yeah, of course it's for the audience
2:10:38
to see the Royal Box, not for the Royal Box to see the stage. But also
2:10:41
to see the reaction of the people in it. So if there's a joke at the expense of the king or
2:10:45
whoever's in the box on the stage the audience can look at the king to see
2:10:49
if he's laughing so that they have permission to. Qualifications? Professional actor
2:10:56
What theatres have you worked in that have royal boxes? I have worked
2:11:01
I actually learnt this at the Globe Theatre, obviously the Globe's a replica, but they've
2:11:05
replicated what would be the royal box there, and my great friend Gabby did
2:11:09
a tour there, and told us exactly why the royal box would
2:11:13
be there, but otherwise I've worked in many West End theatres and RSC National Theatre
2:11:17
things like that. Fantastic, are you working at the moment? No, so if you know anyone, get them to give them a reward
2:11:23
No, always a little bit of a rest, it'll do you good. I love that, Danny, got yourself a round of applause
2:11:27
Thanks, mate. It makes perfect sense. I love those sort of answers that make you go
2:11:31
oh, yeah, of course. Great work. 12.39 is the time. Kate's in Hawley
2:11:36
Kate, question or answer? Question, please, James. Are you all right? Yes, I'm good
2:11:43
It sounds like you might have fallen down a well. Oh, sorry about that
2:11:48
No, I know. Definitely not in a well. No, Kate. Maybe I'm still excited because I got married on Tuesday
2:11:54
Good grief. And whilst I was getting ready, I was thinking of the show
2:11:59
because I was wondering where does the old superstition that a bride should have something old, something new
2:12:06
something borrowed and something blue come from? That's nice, isn't it? So this is your second day of marriage, your third day of marriage
2:12:14
Indeed. Are you on honeymoon at the moment? Still drinking the champagne. Are you on honeymoon at the moment or are you waiting
2:12:19
No, we're waiting. We're going back to Morocco where we usually listen on Saturday
2:12:24
Happy days, Kate. Well, congratulations to you both. What is the name of your lucky partner
2:12:29
I call him my other James because you were my first one. Oh, quite right
2:12:33
So he's James, but it was very special because he had a stroke in September
2:12:37
Oh, I'm sorry. So we're glad he made it. And we listen every day in Agadir
2:12:42
That's lovely. Well, happy days to both of you, to you and James the second
2:12:47
I love that question, actually. I'm almost certain that we've done it before, but I can't remember the answer
2:12:51
so it's as if it never happened. Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue
2:12:56
What is the origin of that? And the 5, 6, 7, 8
2:12:59
I think we need more answers. 12.41. We may have to knock some of these questions off
2:13:05
No, we might be all right, actually. Dave's in Hammersmith. Dave, question or answer? Sorry, another question
2:13:10
I apologise. I always feel bad when people apologise. I can't have answers without questions, can I
2:13:15
So it's not a criticism of you. Go on. So basically about blood
2:13:19
I was blood donating the other day and having a chat with a nurse
2:13:23
and I basically asked them if they knew if dogs have different blood types
2:13:28
like humans do. Yes, they do. They do? They categorically do. Is there a universal donor for dogs
2:13:33
No, you're only allowed one question. Oh, sorry. No, so they definitely have different blood types
2:13:37
because I asked a vet that question when my dog went in for an operation
2:13:43
the price of which Mrs. O'Brien has still not told me. Because that's how vets work these days
2:13:49
So that, I mean, I'm afraid qualifications I asked a vet. Yes, okay
2:13:53
So that's it. So I can't have the universal donor question about dog's blood. No, no, you'll have to ring in next year. Okay
2:13:59
Or next week, whichever you prefer. A round of applause for me, please, Keith
2:14:03
I haven't had a round of applause for a while, have I? Do you remember back in the day, I used to take all of them
2:14:07
back when I was a lot more greedy and arrogant, or arguably when Keith wasn't in charge
2:14:13
Ricky's in Carlisle. Ricky, question or answer? I've got an answer. Carry on
2:14:17
It's, uh, it's answered to the, uh, the televisions. Yeah So basically televisions are just computers these days eh Yeah So what you got is you got some computer memory in there Yeah And if you imagine that like a bucket all right All right You got a hole in the bottom of your bucket
2:14:33
Yeah. The hole in the bottom of the bucket's letting some water out, and that's the audio that's coming out, yeah
2:14:38
Yeah. You've got a hose pipe in the top. Right. And it's filling up the bucket
2:14:42
Now, what you want to do is keep that bucket at the same level, so you keep that stream of audio coming out the bottom
2:14:49
But if your hose pipe gets blocked for a second or two, It's okay, because we've still got some water in the bucket
2:14:54
The audio's still going to come out, yeah? All right. Yeah? So, the two televisions, they've just got a different-sized bucket
2:15:01
They're just computers. They've got a different-sized amount of memory. Have you used this ogy before
2:15:08
All the time. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly? Because I can't decide whether it's absolutely minging
2:15:15
or a stroke of genius, a stroke of metaphorical genius. I mean, I'll take the latter
2:15:20
Well, I mean, do you really need to imagine a bucket and a hosepipe
2:15:25
Can't you just explain it to me in the context? Is it memory that it's full up or something
2:15:30
It is memory, but if I talk to you in terms of computer science
2:15:34
who's going to fall asleep first? Well, let's try. Just try. Let's find out. Oh, my goodness
2:15:38
It's random access memory, is it? It is random access memory, yes
2:15:42
Go on, then. All you have is your internet's coming in, and it's a stream of data
2:15:48
you've got a TCP IP, which is error correct and everything, because sometimes bits of data arrive before others
2:15:54
Yes. That's going to go into memory, and then your processor is going to dip into that memory
2:16:01
and it's going to send it, it's going to process it and send it out through the sound card out to your speakers
2:16:07
So it's because they are computers of different capacity, basically. And that's why it's coming out at slightly different rates
2:16:16
Yes. I think that's a great answer I hope it satisfies Kay
2:16:20
Me too I don't see why it wouldn't I don't think you need the buckets and the hose pipes
2:16:25
But maybe it helped her I mean, because, you know, obviously I'm quite technological
2:16:30
being a radio superstar Well, obviously But I spend all day every day
2:16:36
Explaining computers Well, it makes sense, doesn't it? I mean, that's why you buy a computer that's got a bigger memory
2:16:42
and it will work faster Yeah So it is the same thing
2:16:46
simple answer really when you say they are both computers great work thank you mark have a round
2:16:51
of applause from me not mark ricky mark's next sorry ricky oh thank you it's 12 45 guess who's
2:16:57
up next yeah it's mark after this james o'brien on lbc 12 47 um i just realized that kate and james
2:17:05
who got married on tuesday and usually listen in morocco because kate's got back in touch
2:17:10
I had the pleasure of meeting them she's the sort of hot sauce queen
2:17:14
of Europe I kid you not, they brought me some hot sauce
2:17:18
that absolutely blew my brains out highly recommended, if you get in touch again
2:17:24
Kate, remind me the name of your website I'll give you another plug as well, 12.48 is the time
2:17:28
Mystery Hour continues, Toby's in Salzburg Toby, question or answer? It's an answer James, to the
2:17:34
counting in music and dance question Oh, how appropriate So in music we count beats
2:17:41
and in dancing we count bars so a beat, like if you take a
2:17:45
Veneas waltz or an English waltz 1, 2, 3, that's one bar Right
2:17:49
So in music we count the beats and in dancing we count the bars
2:17:54
and it's always 8 bars that are counted in So you count 8
2:18:00
so you don't go 5, 6, 7, 8 you go 1, 2, 3, 4 If you go to a beginner's dance class
2:18:06
and my qualification is actually that my wife's a professional Irish dance teacher
2:18:09
who toured with Riverdance. Good Lord, really. How exciting. And I asked her the question, why do you count in 5, 6, 7, 8
2:18:17
And that's only in advanced classes. When you watch a beginner's Irish dance class
2:18:21
they would count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. But if you take a hornpipe, for example, that would take very long
2:18:28
which is fine for the little ones who start up. So what are you doing on the 5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
2:18:34
your body's getting into the rhythm? It's getting into the rhythm and eight bars is usually
2:18:40
the first repetition of the tune. Ah, of course it is. Qualifications, I know you've told us, but tell us again
2:18:50
16, sorry, 18 years, happily married with a professional Irish dance teacher
2:18:54
How did you meet? In an Irish pub when she was on tour
2:18:58
with Riverdance. She was on tour with Riverdance and she went to an Irish pub
2:19:03
In Salzburg, Austria. In Salzburg, Austria. How'd that so romantic? I didn't think any Irish people ever went near Irish pubs, Toby
2:19:11
When they were brought, they do. Clearly when they were on holiday. Carry on
2:19:15
Round of applause for Toby. Lovely stuff. A lot of love for Mark coming in as well, actually
2:19:21
I've lost one of them, but it was a lovely message from someone who used to take our children to see him
2:19:26
when he was doing his Punch and Judy on the beach in Weymouth. And Wurzel's been in touch, Mark, all the way from Texas
2:19:31
saying, hearing my dear old friend Mark on Mystery Hour, one of the youngest Punch and Judy professors ever
2:19:37
Meg's in Hereford. Meg, question or answer? I've got an answer for you
2:19:42
Carry on, Meg. For the something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue
2:19:47
Yes. So it was printed in the St. James magazine in Lancashire in the 1870s
2:19:53
It was the early 1870s. Just by sort of a writer at the time
2:19:58
Just a little rhyme. Just a random rhyme. Yeah, so it was just a kind of little gimmicky rhyme that they'd put in there
2:20:05
because Lancashire at the time was still very heavily into kind of folk tradition
2:20:11
and magic and all of that belief. So it was kind of, it started that way
2:20:16
and then it just spread through like etiquette pamphlets and etiquette books
2:20:20
that was sort of spread throughout everybody and everybody believed it because they loved a bit of superstition
2:20:26
People were making up all sorts of things. What are your qualifications? I've literally, today, just finished my degree in English literature and creative writing
2:20:36
And so I've done a lot to do with Shakespeare and, like, that era of time
2:20:41
And I finished that today. How did you finish today? I mean, it's only like 10 to 1
2:20:46
What have you done this morning? Oh, it was due at 12 o'clock midday today, so..
2:20:50
Are you serious? You've handed in your thesis? Yeah, yeah, it's all done
2:20:54
Yeah, like, literally today. So, I mean, I know this is... So Kate is two days married and she's decided to listen to Mystery Hour
2:21:00
You've just finished your degree and you've tuned into Mystery Hour as well. I like this. It's becoming a place of celebration
2:21:06
To be fair, LBC has been the one thing that's kept me sane in these last few weeks
2:21:11
I mean, that was a bit... How can I put this politely
2:21:15
You sounded a little bit insane when you said that. There you go
2:21:19
I'm sorry. You did it again. No, I'm only joking. Round of applause. Yes, brilliant stuff
2:21:24
Something old, something... I love things that were made up. I love the idea because there's..
2:21:28
They also added the sixpence to her shoe in the 1880s, but that kind of got forgotten about
2:21:33
Are you serious? So something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue, and sixpence to her shoe Yeah and that was just for good luck Yeah I like quite often when there a pub near me and they claim that Oliver Cromwell stayed there during the Civil War and when you
2:21:49
look into it you realise that was almost certainly made up by a pub landlord in the 17th century who
2:21:57
would just literally say, oh yes, Oliver Cromwell once drank here and it would appeal to the
2:22:03
tourists. So things that get made up and you think that they were
2:22:07
forged in the mists of time are actually relatively recent inventions. And here's another one
2:22:12
Yeah. Here's another. I love it. Well played. Great stuff. And congratulations Meg. I hope you get the grade that you're hoping for. Thank you
2:22:17
No, you're welcome. Mark's in Dunfermline. Mark, question or answer? It's an answer, James
2:22:23
Carry on, Mark. Right, so it was to the guy who was struggling with
2:22:27
bugs landing on his paint when he's outside. He was painting and painting. Painting and painting. Yes
2:22:34
Right, well, there's two or three different things you can do. First thing is, these days, we tend towards using acrylic paints
2:22:41
which dry in a fraction of a time of solvent-based paints. Whereas if you're using oil-based solvent paints
2:22:47
then you take all day to dry. But will it come up as shiny? I mean, you know what, they're like c boats
2:22:52
Will it come up as shiny as the oil-based enamels? These days, yeah
2:22:57
They never used to be. Oh, that's interesting. But these days, because they've had to move towards acrylic-based paints
2:23:03
because of VOC rules, etc. They had to get their act together
2:23:07
and paints are as good as oil-based paints. Now, the other thing you can do is you can put some terabin dryers
2:23:13
in the oil-based paints, and that'll dry it really quicker. That'll dry it a lot quicker
2:23:17
But the biggest thing is you paint away from the wind. Because it's not the bugs landing on the paint, it's the wind
2:23:24
Blowing the bugs into the paint. Blowing the bugs onto the paint, and that's what you do. So you want to be painting..
2:23:30
Painting away from the wind. Yeah, but I'm just trying to think what away from the wind means
2:23:34
You're only painting on one side of it, so you have the wind upwind. The wind is blowing towards you
2:23:40
Towards you, because you're painting the thing in front of you. Well, yeah, but are you trying to paint when it's not windy
2:23:46
Yeah, or when it's not windy at all. Yeah, when it's not windy. Because it's not the bugs, it's the wind that's blowing the bugs towards the paint
2:23:56
Qualifications? 34 years as a painting and decorator What are you working on at the moment
2:24:01
I'm right now, I'm in a staircase so unfortunately I'm indoors I wish I was painting doors outside
2:24:07
Yeah, well, there you go you wouldn't have been able to help us out if you weren't Lovely work, nice one
2:24:12
Round of applause for Mark It was Mark for Mark, wasn't it
2:24:17
Was that two Marks? Yeah, it was Mark for Mark I like it when that happens
2:24:22
Lots of wordplay on that question He was painting and painting, he was bugged by bugs
2:24:25
and then he got marked by Mark Patrick's in Belfast Patrick, question or answer
2:24:29
I have an answer for you Carry on Patrick So whenever I was in school
2:24:35
in the first couple of years of uni I worked in a cinema for a few years and one of the roles that I was required to do
2:24:41
was making popcorn so I was dumped into a wee room for about 10 hours or so
2:24:48
making a sweet or salted popcorn about 50 or 60 bags worth
2:24:52
like 10 bags worth that would do that for a week and you were right
2:24:57
It is purely a profit margin increasing exercise because it takes pennies
2:25:03
to kind of create itself. Do we know when it started though or anything like that
2:25:07
Do we know? No, unfortunately. Because it could have been anything, couldn't it? It depends on cultural kind of elements
2:25:12
but just from the cost kind of point of view I could give you a bit of an answer on
2:25:17
because I would have also worked on the bank lodgements for the cinema
2:25:20
so I knew rightly how much of their income was going off to the..
2:25:25
Go on. the actual film producers type people. Like, I think they only kept about 30% of ticket sales at that time
2:25:31
Right. So they had to make all their money on the concessions
2:25:35
So, and popcorn being cheap, relatively easy to make, which we did on site
2:25:40
Yeah, you just make quite a lot of bank on it. But yeah, tons and tons and tons of the stuff
2:25:46
And it costs almost nothing, right? Yeah. The kernels of corn are like absolute buttons
2:25:51
and then you can sell it for five quid a bucket. Yeah, it was like, I think it was something like
2:25:56
about a kilo of corn kernels to about half a kilo of sugar and some oil
2:26:02
And that gave you a bin bag's worth of popcorn. There you go. You can have that recipe for nothing. Round of applause for Patrick
2:26:08
We still don't know when it kind of started. Who was the first entrepreneur to realise
2:26:12
But that'll do. I mean, the profit margins. Fiona's in Brighton. Fiona, question or answer
2:26:16
James, I've got an answer for you. Fiona, carry on. So, you were asking about the order of words
2:26:22
and why certain, why we sort of place, make certain decisions. Well, it wasn't actually technically me that was asking that, was it
2:26:29
It was Simeon in Tempere in Finland. So I've been thinking about this for some time, actually
2:26:37
and thinking about why we always say things like flip-flop and sing-song
2:26:41
and not song-sing. And it's all, we actually make... Pardon? What? Hello
2:26:48
Carry on. we make unconscious rules about the order of language all to do with
2:26:55
the way the sort of the sounds roll off the tongue and different shapes
2:26:59
that we have to put our mouths in to make the words and that's
2:27:04
essentially it. That's kind of what I said I said it's the trippingness, the tripping, say the words
2:27:09
trippingly, the tripping, the way it trips off the tongue. Trips off the tongue
2:27:14
Trippingly. Trippingly What's prosody? prosody, P-R-O-S-O-D yeah, what's that? Prosody Prosody that's how we bring words to life
2:27:23
I mean, it's what you do in your monologue at the start of every hour
2:27:29
it's what you do Oh, wow well, you're definitely getting a round of applause
2:27:33
you're probably going to get a game for that actually lovely little late flourish
2:27:37
at the end there round of applause qualifications? Well, I am an English teacher
2:27:41
in primary school so I'm supposed to be I'm supposed to be writing reports right now
2:27:45
so thank you for distracting me. You're more than welcome and I think that it is
2:27:49
unconscious little rules of appeal as it were. Round of applause for Fiona. Exactly
2:27:54
Thank you. Prosody, do you know that word? The music of language
2:27:58
Is that what it is? So it could apply to that question as well then. Why do we say Tom and Gerry
2:28:02
not Gerry and Tom? What would we be? Sheila and James or James and Sheila? James and Sheila
2:28:07
No, Sheila and James. No, James and Sheila. What do you think? Oh, do you get the la la la la la
2:28:12
from my name to start with? Okay, maybe you're right. Sheila and James. in the tree
2:28:16
In the D. K-I-S-S. Steady on, Fee. Steady on, Fee. Rob's in the heat
2:28:21
Oh, we're out of time. Sorry, Rob. And do you know what? Fiona gets the game right at the end there
2:28:25
Just coming in with such a beautiful compliment that I'm afraid I almost blushed
2:28:29
That's it from me for another day. If you missed any of today's show
2:28:33
you can listen back on our Global Player. It's free, you know. Or the LBC app
2:28:37
where you can stay up to date with all the latest news, videos and opinions. You can download
2:28:41
the official LBC app for free from your app store now. coming up at four on LBC
2:28:46
But now it's time for Sheila Brogertie. Sheila, Sheila, Sheila, Sheila. James O'Brien on LBC
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