Why isn't the right-wing media cheering? | James O’Brien - The Whole Show

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four minutes after ten and what a peculiar time it is to be a progressive um whatever that word
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means but whatever it means i i almost certainly am one um i was live on air yesterday as you know
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when the ons figures dropped or shortly afterwards and um reported to you that we are in the midst of
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an almost unprecedented plummet in net migration figures. And I kind of wondered out loud how the right-wing media
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or elements of the... I mean, the really bent bits of the right-wing media
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or the bits that simply don't care about facts. They just want to get you cross about something
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regardless of what the numbers actually say. I wondered how they would accommodate it
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I knew that Farage would lie because he has done in the past
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He's lied about these numbers actually having nothing to do with the reduction in the number of people coming here
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and everything to do with an increase in the number of people leaving, which is so demonstrably untrue that you can see it from space
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But Farage lying is, you know, it's like the rest of us breathing. But I did wonder how far that infection might spread
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You know, I guess the capacity to still be shocked is something to be thankful for
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When you're not shocked anymore, that's when you know that the game is up, isn't it
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When you're not shocked anymore, that's when you know that the ship has sailed, the gig is over
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Because I turned to the Mail and the Telegraph and the Sun and some others this morning
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and I learned that there's actually a brain drain in the UK as young people turn their backs on Labour's broken Britain
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Somebody actually wrote those words in the Daily Mail. The idea that Labour would have managed to do lasting harm to the country in the space of two years
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while the 14 years of Tories left us in absolutely fine fettle is beyond comical
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But your mum reads this bilge, so it's important that you're aware of it. The idea that the number of people leaving is in any way the most important element of this story is..
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I mean, it is statistically unbelievable that anyone would peddle this line
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The figures come down. The actual net number of people in that category, 18 to 30, has come down by a few thousand in the space of the period in which they're claiming that there's been a massive brain drain
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Listen, the truth, right, the truth is never partial. So I'm going to quote to you a couple of writers who I don't hold in very high affection
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I have respect for some of their professional efforts, but they have both been heavily associated over the years
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with the Spectator magazine, which under the ownership of Andrew Neil, I beg your pardon
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while it was published by Andrew Neil, who somehow managed to maintain his position as a BBC presenter
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while Gary Lineker couldn't. You can publish an extremely right-wing magazine that includes praise for the Waffen SS
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and somehow fulfil the BBC requirements of impartiality, but if you present Match of the Day
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you're going to be under constant barrage from the kind of organs that Andrew Neil now writes for
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So two men who have been heavily associated with that magazine over the years
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but to whom I turned first this morning, because they are telling the truth
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And everybody else on that side of the political fence, what I would loosely describe as the immigration-obsessed
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far-right-adjacent wing of the British media, which is about 80% of it these days
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They're lying to you. They are literally lying to you. And you can probably guess what the phone-in is going to be today
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I don't really understand why. I don't really understand why. So, Fraser Nelson, former editor of The Spectator magazine
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points out that if you are to remove from the overall figures
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the so-called asylum and humanitarian factor, so a large reason for recent increases
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is people being welcomed here from Ukraine and Hong Kong, for example
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most obviously and most recently. If you remove those figures, you see them as our sort of international duty
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and you remove students. Students get counted if they stay here for more than a year
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which is going to be most students, given that your average degree course is three years. And the massive, massive majority of them return at the end of their studies
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So if you remove non-EU students and asylum and humanitarian from the overall figures
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this is the rolling 12-month total to December 2025, then you're looking at a net migration figure
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I kid you not, in the final three months of last year, and it's the rolling figure, so that is, you extrapolate from that
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the annual figure would be 75,000. The Labour government, for good or for ill
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has delivered on David Cameron's promise to get net migration down to the tens of thousands
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As Fraser Nelson writes, it is the success that dare not speak its name
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I'm going to say that again, because I can't quite believe the desperation
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of the four horsemen of the crap-op-a-lips cheerleaders in trying to turn this story into something they're not happy about it
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For the avoidance of that, I'm not happy about this, because I think that we are punishing the wrong people
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for the right problems. But I accept that the country has told its leaders
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its political leaders, that it wants to see a massive reduction in immigration. It did it in the referendum
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and they didn't get what they asked for, and they're doing it now. I don't know how many people voted Labour in 2024
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in order to reduce immigration, but Keir Starmer thinks that is his mandate and his mission
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And he has delivered it in a fashion that no Prime Minister in recent memory can even compare with
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These are just facts, right? These are just facts. This is breathtaking
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A Labour Prime Minister has reduced immigration to the sort of levels that seemed pie in the sky
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when David Cameron promised to. That's absolutely extraordinary. And I have to tell you, because you probably don't know this
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that a plurality of Labour members like Shabana Mahmood's policies. If you spend your life on blue sky or in a sort of progressive liberal echo chamber
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you will be shocked to learn how popular some of these policies are among the Labour membership
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and even more so among potential Labour supporters. The country, even if it's not your top priority
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the country, this country is a place where the popular opinion is
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that immigration needs to be massively reduced. I used the phrase a lot yesterday
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that the arguments are lost. There's no point having arguments about whether it's a good thing or a bad
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That is just lost. The political landscape, in England at least, because of course the independence parties
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in Scotland and Wales managed successfully to swim against this tidal wave of filth
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as indeed do the Liberal Democrats. And most recently the Greens, although they're looking increasingly troubled when it comes to candidate selection
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More on that possibly later. In England, at least, and therefore in much of Britain, the argument is lost
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The battle is over. The public wants less immigration and the politicians have decided to deliver it
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And they have. This isn't an opinion. This is literally counting. Until you open the pages of the Daily Mail
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brain drain as young people flee Labour broken Britain Whatever you do don mention that the number of young people leaving Britain has gone down And whatever the hell you do don spend a nanosecond looking at where they have actually gone
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Just spout some nonsense about Dubai and Australia, if you want to peddle this ludicrous, deceitful, vaguely treacherous line
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Young turn their back on high-tax Britain is the Daily Telegraph headline
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So, you then have to look at the numbers. I've given you the first lot. 75,000 would be the extrapolated annual figure in last year
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That's 75,000 net when you take out asylum and students. And then you look at the other question
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and for this I turn to another journalist heavily associated with The Spectator, and I mention that because politically
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these are not people that I am aligned with. I think that magazine has done more to poison
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public discourse in this country with its Nazi praise and its hideous comments
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from a columnist called Rod Liddle about how he could never have been a teacher
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because he would have wanted to rape the children in his charge. They publish all of that over there
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but God forbid that the Guardian should ever get a comma wrong or put a dot in the wrong place on a page
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So this fellow is also heavily associated with The Spectator magazine, and he has had a look at where people are going
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It's actually quite hard to pin down some of this stuff, but what you can say categorically
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is that they are not all going to Dubai or Australia. What's really interesting is the number of people that are going to
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or quite possibly going back to, Poland and Romania. Those figures, if you were to compare today with 2020
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you can see that 72,000 more British nationals have settled in Poland during that period
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and 23,000 more British nationals have settled in Romania. So this could be people that came here under freedom of movement
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fulfilled the criteria for citizenship and achieved the British passport. They then become a British national leaving Britain
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to return quite possibly to their country of birth. The children of those families similarly will be leaving Britain
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going back to their ancestral homeland. Polish men who've married British women and had half Polish, half British children
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going back to Poland account for some of that figure of 72,000
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But remember, this is all about doctors and AI professionals moving to Dubai
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where the numbers are absolutely negligible. Do you know what the third, the next big hotspot for emigrating Britons is
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Go on, guess. The next big hotspot for emigrating Britons, for people who are leaving Britain
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guess what the third big is? So Poland, Romania, guess what's third
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I actually mean this. This isn't a rhetorical question. I want you to guess. No
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No? Wrong? No? No? Bangladesh. Bangladesh is the figure, or the country
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where nearly 13,000 Brits have moved in the past four years. Now, as Freddie Sayers writes in Unheard
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it's possible that Billy from Kent has decided, along with thousands of his friends
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that Bangladesh is the new land of economic opportunity. It's more likely that these people are naturalised British citizens
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with Bangladeshi ties. And by contrast, this is important, over the same four-year period
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3,259 more Brits are living in the United Arab Emirates. The numbers moving to America are up by, wait for it, 1%
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so this is a story about human movement about mobility about modern cosmopolitan multicultural
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families having the choice of countries to live in it is categorically not a story about young
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highly educated british people fleeing these shores for um lands unknown it categorically
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isn't it clearly isn't you've got right-wing journalists who have on their cv the one of the
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most right-wing publications, one of the most rabidly anti-immigrant publications that this country has had the misfortune
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of having published, having to point out that the numbers absolutely support the
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claim that immigration has now fallen to historic or at least post-Brexit
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unprecedented levels. But here is the Daily Telegraph. Young turn their back
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on high-tax Britain. Here is the Daily Mail. Brain drain as young people flee Labour's broken Britain
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And I don't get it. The Times, a newspaper which I don't always hold in the highest regard
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are telling the truth. And again, I mention this because they are a right-wing newspaper
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edited by a protege of Paul Dacre who has previously edited both The Sun and The Telegraph
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You can't make this up. You think I exaggerate. I'll tell you how bent the newspaper industry in this country is
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The talent pool is apparently so shallow that the same bloke has edited The Sun, The Telegraph and The Times
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while doing a stint as deputy editor at The Daily Mail, where he could quite possibly end up editor next
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But anyway, The Times. I don't know whether the editor had a day off, but they've told the truth. They write on their op-ed page, their leading article
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the fall in immigration is a Labour success story. And they go further. They explore some of the territory we explored together on yesterday's programme
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For once, the government is giving voters what they actually want. If it continues, it could yet reap the benefits
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I don't think there are any benefits particularly, except electoral calculus, except the idea that you told us you wanted much lower immigration
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we've given you much lower immigration. So why aren't they celebrating? Why are people talking undiluted bilge about brain drains
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not celebrating the thing that they have spent the best part of 20 years
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which is pretty much the window in which I've been paying proper attention to these issues
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insisting that we need and everybody wants. Why? Why aren't they celebrating
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Why are people lying about brain drains when they have been telling us for God knows how long
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that the one thing that they wanted was controlled and reduced immigration
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The British public still thinks it's going up. Such are the efforts of these clowns, cronies and client journalists
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The British public still thinks the numbers are going up. But why are the people who have created the atmosphere of hatred
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why are the journalists, commentators, editors and publishers responsible for the massive uptick in racist abuse of nurses
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and bus drivers and doctors and pretty much anybody else who has a foreign accent
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or doesn't look immediately chalky white? Why are all the people who've created this hideous atmosphere
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the land that Farage built, why are they lying and not celebrating
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it's such a bizarre moment for anybody who is across the facts or tells the truth
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It's an even more bizarre moment for those of us who recognise the reality of immigration
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Because you are inflicting almost guaranteed economic damage on your own country
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to deliver something that the people insist that they want. Does that ring any bells
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Does that ring any bells? inflicting economic damage on your own country in order to deliver something that the people have been convinced that they want Yeah Brexit Mark two Here it is And I don know is it going to end
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the same way? Oh, well, we've reduced immigrate. We've got a reduction in immigration, but
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it's not the right sort. There is a good reduction in immigration, but it goes to a different
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school. You've got what you want, lads. You've literally got what you want. And there's more
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to come. They reckon it could hit net zero by the end of next
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year. Zero net migration. You've got exactly what you wanted. So why aren't you happy
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Why aren't you celebrating? 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need
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Why are these people not celebrating? Why are they already on day one
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of this story? Even the Times can admit it is a massive
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success story. If that's what you want, why can the people who insisted that it was exactly
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what they wanted, not celebrate? Why aren't they celebrating? It's absolutely bizarre
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Even Brexit got celebrated for about five minutes before people googled what it
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meant and realised they'd made a terrible mistake. Why are they not celebrating this
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Why are they telling lies about brain drains and young people and Dubai and tax havers? It's absolutely
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extraordinary. I've written a whole book about how broken this country is when it comes to the provision
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of information to the population to allow them to make informed choices
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and decisions. But I still get shocked sometimes by how utterly, utterly morally corrupt and intellectually
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bankrupt the, uh, the public space has become. You insisted that you wanted this
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Well, you got it. What are you going to do on your show today? Oh, I'm going to pretend that all
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the young people are moving to Australia or Dubai. Why? Well, I
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It's what it says in the sun. Why aren't they celebrating? 03456060973
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Why aren't they celebrating? You tell me. I've got theories. But I want to hear yours first
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James O'Brien on LBC. 22 minutes after 10 is the time, and I genuinely can't believe that we're having this radio phone-in
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I didn't necessarily dread a massive drop in immigration. It's not going to affect me directly
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I'm very well paid, so I'm not going to be hit by the cost of living crisis anywhere near as hard as people who are on lower incomes
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Freedom of movement, luckily. I have Irish heritage, so I can secure Irish passports for my family to make sure that my children continue to get freedom of movement
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So I had a sort of mixed relationship with Brexit. I was more worried about the impact it was going to have on other people
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than I was about the impact it was going to have on me. But I accepted, certainly before the last general election
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that the message politicians were taking from the British public was that they wanted a massive reduction in immigration
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So I don't understand why the people who created that appetite, who created that desire, are already lying about the results
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and are not celebrating the fact that they've got exactly what they want
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And I don't get it. I genuinely don't get it. Is it footballification
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Is it just because Labour have delivered it and they can't bring themselves to say thank you
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If it was the Tories that had delivered it or, God forbid, Farage's outfit that had delivered it
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they would be, wouldn't they? I'm not going mad. They'd be trumpeting it from the rooftops
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They'd be absolutely cheering the government to the rafters. What have you done
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We've brought immigration down, net migration. down to the tens of thousands
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Take out humanitarian arrivals and take out students who by definition come here for a period
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and then leave again. And it's down to about 75,000, a figure that seemed utterly unthinkable
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when David Cameron promised it. So why are these people not celebrating
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And I'm thinking not necessarily about your Uncle Keith on Facebook. I'm thinking about the members of my profession
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I'm thinking about the media who have done more than anybody else in this country
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to create an atmosphere of resentment and division. I'm thinking about the politicians, perhaps
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although those questions might be easier to answer. Farage has spent his entire life demanding what Labour is now delivering
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Why are they not happy? Why are they not celebrating? Why are they not saying thank you
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0345 6060 973 is the number that you need. Michael makes a valid point
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He says, I like rhetorical questions, but they might not be the basis for a radio phone-in
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However, good on you for trying. Well, they are the basis for a radio phone-in
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because there have to be answers to these questions. They are lying about brain drains
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and they are ignoring the facts, and they are actually trying to cast
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the biggest positive of their own imaginations as a negative. And I don't know why
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Julian's in Maidenhead. Julian, what would you like to say? Good morning, James
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I'd just like to say that this is the I mean, we've seen this before
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this has been happening for ages and I think it happens in other countries as well if I, I mean, we're on radio
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so I can't illustrate this with a picture but anyone the pictures are the best on the radio, mate
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you're right, because the brain is an excellent artist so imagine three men sitting at a table
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the middle one is Rupert Murdoch with a big plate of cookies in front of him
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To his right is a darker-skinned gentleman of non-Northern European origin
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On his left is a white Caucasian worker. And Rupert Murdoch is saying to the white Caucasian worker
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careful, mate, that foreigner wants your cookies. I am familiar with this image, and it is obviously part of a business model
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but it only works if people think that the room is full of foreigners
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And that means that when they are told that the room is no longer full of foreigners, that the tactics shouldn't work
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Well, the foreigners don't necessarily have to be people coming into the country
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We have plenty, there are plenty of darker-skinned people in this country
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And the narrative that Reform or Tommy Robertson or whatever, or Tommy 10 names..
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We don't need to go that far to the right. You could talk to me about the Daily Mail, the Daily Telegraph, the Sun
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I mean, if the Times can tell the truth, why can't they? The Times' business model is Murdoch
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He owns the paper. For some reason, sometimes, I will say, sometimes the Times does still tick to its sheer, pure financial roots
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and doesn't veer into the politics, but occasionally it will. But on this occasion, they haven't
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They're just stating the facts. They are still considered the journal of record
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so why are the others lying? why would a phone-in host lie about this
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if they've spent their whole life demanding lower immigration and thumping desks
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and talking about how awful it is because if you show that the numbers are coming down
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therefore the Labour government has done the right thing this will give people more confidence
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in that Labour government doing the right thing so they can't so it's the lesser of two evils
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yeah if the people are happy with the Labour government who are doing the right thing
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then the Labour government in the future will continue doing the right thing which unfortunately is a bad thing for the media billionaires I don even know if it is anymore Do they benefit from having a low mobile workforce
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which is, of course, one of the benefits of, from their point of view
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one of the benefits of immigration? I suppose the worst nightmare is that immigration comes down and wages go up
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and Labour start doing what they're doing on things like national living wage
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and protections for workers. and the people who have little choice but to take whatever it is
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the crumbs that fall from the oligarch's table, get sort of looked after
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I don't know. I mean, I genuinely don't know what the motivation of these people is. I know what the columnists are doing
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and the broadcasters and the pundits. They're just pursuing a business model of hatred
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They don't know what else to do. Well, crikey, immigration's come down
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and my whole career is built upon telling my readers to hate immigrants. I'm going to have to start watching 25-year-old episodes of The Bill
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and pretending that they paint a picture of... Oh, hang on. Dick Littlejohn's already done that
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But what are you going to do if your whole shtick... You can't start attacking transgender people every single day
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like you did the immigrants, because there's hardly any of them. And now, of course, the numbers of immigrants are plummeting as well
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So why are people not celebrating? 0345 6060 973. I can tell you, Andy Burnham's campaign is set to launch this hour
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We are currently minded to take at least part of that speech live
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Simon Marks is joining us later in the programme with yet more shenanigans from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean
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And, well, don't tell Eleanor that I told you this. Eleanor is the producer of this programme
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I want to talk about buses in the final hour. I think Rachel Reeves' decision to allow free bus travel for young people
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and to give some inducements, financial incentives, to everybody, every family, to get out together over the course of this summer
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and do nice things. I think it's a really rare example of politics
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being temporarily rather lovely, but never more so than when it involves buses
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So I would really like to talk about buses in the last hour
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but contrary to the impression I sometimes give you, I can't do it on my own
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Here's Dominic Ellis with your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC 33 is the time
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I have the England team almost, it's still coming out of the printer
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but I'll share that with you shortly it counts as breaking news and prevents you from going anywhere else to find out
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so the full England squad has been announced good news and bad news I'll share it with you now shall I
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the goalkeepers, Jordan Pickford, Dean Henderson and James Trafford defenders, Rhys James
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Tino Livramento Mark Gahey Esri Consa John Stones Gerald Kwanash Nico O'Reilly
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Dan Byrne and Jed Spence in midfield Declan Rice Elliot Anderson Jude Bellingham
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Jordan Henderson Morgan Rogers Kobi Mainu and up front Harry Kane Ivan Toney
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Ollie Watkins Bukayo Saka Noni Maduweki Marcus Rashford Anthony Gordon and Eberechi Eze
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that's a wonderful list of people isn't it? That's a beautiful illustration of the country that I live in
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All those names that would have been exotic 20 years ago, now wearing England short 30 years ago, that's modern Britain
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That's the country that Farage and his friends despise, as we saw when people taking the knee for Black Lives Matter
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would be booed by elements of the terraces and people would stand up in Parliament to condemn it
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People who have said absolutely nothing about the hideous racism spouted on the hate march in London
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this weekend but there it is that is your england 2026 world cup squad so most obviously i suppose
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cole palmer um uh cole palmer is going to be gutted harry maguire is going to be gutted i think
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harry maguire might have announced already that he is gutted um and a couple of others who will be
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i'm feeling pretty bruised this morning did i read jordan henderson's name out i know jordan
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pickford up front jordan pickford is the goalkeeper i read that out correctly you misheard me stop
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sending me messages based on your own misapprehensions. We're looking at immigration figures that
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according to the honest right-wing journalists, is how I'm going to describe them
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are not only incredibly low, but also entirely unrelated to the idea of young British people
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fleeing the country because of taxes. I'm going to read you a message in a moment
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about another newspaper, actually, a newspaper that I used to work on, because I did exclude it from my round-up
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And it's interesting because they've put it in quotes. So the Daily Express has put
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Exodus of our brightest and best, and they've put in quotes, driven by Labour's high taxes, end quotes
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That's absolutely fascinating. I know I'm a bit of an anorak, but that's fascinating. That's the only honest headline
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that's touting the same nonsense about brain drains. that's the only honest headline because this is what chris philp and andrew griffith are saying
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they're describing an exodus of our brightest and best young people but you've put it in quotes in
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the daily express because that's all it is it's some people saying something that's not true
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but when the telegraph or the mail do the same story they don't put quotes on it they put brain
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drain as young people flee labor's broken britain even though as these honest right-wing journalists
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Fraser Nelson and Freddie Sayers demonstrate it's not true. It's a lie
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So I mention that only because Richard asks I'm just curious why you never condemn the Daily Express
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They're just as bad as the mail and I'm constantly funneling the news I get from your show onto their comments and letters section
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The readership, of course, rejects what I write without providing any counter-arguments
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Footballification is the answer to your question today. The short answer to that is no one reads it anymore, mate
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But to be honest with you, that increasingly applies to all the other papers as well. I don't think there's any residual loyalty
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from the days when I used to write for the Daily Express about a million years ago, but who knows
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I'll do better. And in fact, by looking up that story today, I discover that they've actually reported it
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much more honestly than the Mail, the Telegraph, or the Sun. But not quite as honestly as the Times
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who say, this morning, the fall in net immigration is a Labour success story
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So why aren't the people who wanted it celebrating? Danny is in Lewis. Danny, what would you like to say
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Hi, James. Sorry to keep you. Well, I mean, that's all right
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No, no problem. I think footballification does explain it a bit, and I think we live in a cultural kind of context at the moment
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where people just can't separate lies from fiction from fact anymore, if you know what I mean
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Well, half the country thinks it's going up, even as it goes down at a rate that hasn't been seen for a very long time
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Exactly. People get their news from Facebook memes, from influencers, from tweets
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But that's where you would expect those of us who have paid proper salaries to do this stuff
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whether we're on the radio or the television or newspapers, to just simply tell the truth
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Yeah, but, I mean, the truth is obviously not what some people want to hear
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Why not? Why? If I had sat here for 20 years saying, immigration must come down
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why would I today not be celebrating? Because you are, you're selling, you know
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you're selling information, the lies, the information that you're, Your consumers want, aren't you
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You're providing a product for your consumers that are going to choose..
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I can find a new product. I can find a new product. I say, right, we've won that battle
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Let's go after the disabled people now, for example. I mean, I'm being facetious, obviously
30:18
And, of course, I'm also not being very clever because it's already happening. But, I mean, the thing I'm struggling with today
30:24
is that old phrase of mine about it's not an opinion, it's counting
30:27
These are actual numbers. I can just about understand why the Tories would lie about them
30:32
because they can't bear to admit that the Labour government has delivered the thing that they not only fixed the problem
30:38
if you think it's a problem that they caused but also delivered the thing that they completely failed to do
30:43
It's their worst nightmare. So they'll simultaneously claim, well, actually, it's all because of the policies we introduced
30:47
and, well, it's not actually worth celebrating because there's a massive brain drain of young people
30:51
So they're telling two contradictory and conflicting lies. But why would... Oh, I just sound pathetic, don't I
30:57
Why would journalists join in? And the answer is the same, because they kind of hate Labour more than they love their country
31:04
Yeah, they bat for one side of the cultural divide, don't they
31:08
Do you think it will filter through to the population? No. Not at all
31:14
No, I don't think people actually care. The reason people think they care about immigration has got nothing to do with immigration in the first place
31:22
It's the feeling of cultural loss, you know, a loss of some kind of imagined cultural continuity
31:28
And that's not going to change by reducing immigration today. That's something that's been set in motion and is, you know
31:36
what they want is a feeling of animosity against what they consider to be the enemy
31:46
You know, that's what they actually... They want people to get hurt. Yeah, they want people to feel unwelcome, you know
31:52
More than that, if you look at what Trump has delivered. And I appreciate Trump's approval ratings are not high here
31:58
but they are much higher among Farage fans than they are among the rest of the population
32:03
And they want people... It's not enough to see a massive drop in numbers
32:07
They want the ones that are still here to be hurt, to have their lives diminished. So they're never going to celebrate
32:12
until we're sort of locking millions of people up and threatening to deport them
32:17
and in Farage's case, doing deals with the Taliban. Exactly, yeah. I mean, I think, just look back at, you know
32:23
the rise of Nazi Germany, I think that is basically kind of like the trajectory
32:27
that you can observe. Well, I mean, you make the point, of course
32:32
that Nazi Germany did not begin with concentration camps. It began with a simple demonization of foreigners
32:39
Jews, most obviously, but others, of course, as well. And that great line from Susan Sontag
32:44
about 10% of the population being evil, effectively, they'd sign up for it tomorrow
32:48
10% would be prepared to go to the gallows resisting it, but the other 80% is where the game gets played
32:55
where the politics happened. an extraordinary attempt to malign or even get rid of the bloke that runs the South Bank Centre
33:03
Miss Anne Harriman, underway at the moment in the right-wing media for simply making that point about Susan Sontag's comments
33:10
regarding the nature of a population and the rise of vile regimes
33:19
How can you look at the United States of America at the moment and not think that it's possible for a vile regime to rise
33:24
in a Western supposedly liberal democracy. Strange times. 10.42 is the time
33:28
Thank you, Danny. Lauren is in Uppsala in Sweden. Lauren, what would you like to say? Hello, James
33:34
First time on the radio, so forgive me if I'm a little bit nervous. Humord du? Jamord braatak
33:39
You speak Swedish. Wow, I'm impressed. That's it. That's literally it. That's it
33:43
That's all I've got. Very impressed. Carry on. That's better than a lot of people. Well, I think the short answer
33:48
to give a short answer, would be that this will be the manifesto
33:52
for the right-wing media and reform if they want to be in government in the next few years
33:56
And Labour are undermining it. Labour are achieving their goals. And there's no way in this world that they can give them credit for that
34:04
because then what are they going to do if, you know, God forbid they're in the government in three years
34:08
Labour have already solved it, so what are they supposed to do? So they have to pretend that it's going on
34:14
even as all the statistics prove that it isn't? Well, I think what I was saying to your team before I was getting on
34:21
is that, first of all, I think they can't give Labour credit because that's just not something they're ever going to be able to want to do
34:27
But unfortunately... Well, you know, Labour is going to be... I mean, elements of Labour aren't going to want to celebrate it either, of course
34:33
which is a double bind, isn't it? But that is the question
34:37
So this piece by Freddie Sayers actually concludes with the point you make
34:42
For Nigel Farage and Reform UK, there is now the chilling possibility of another Pyrrhic victory
34:47
just like the Brexit campaign before it, in which the change to national policy they campaigned for takes place
34:53
And that success removes the principal reason for their existence. Exactly. You know, what do they do now
34:58
It feels similar to after Brexit, you know, UKIP sort of faded into the background
35:03
because everyone thought, OK, well, we've achieved your goal now. What are you here for? But here we are again 10 years later
35:09
But unfortunately, I do think that the issue that they're highlighting of young people leaving the UK
35:16
while I don't agree with their ideas of oh it's brain drain, it's high taxes
35:21
it's all Labour's fault unfortunately it is an issue that I think is quite
35:25
easy for them to manipulate into the narrative that they want Are you happy here? Not really
35:31
Oh well that's why all the people are leaving Sort of, yeah, and I mean for me
35:35
immigration, you know my reasons for living in Sweden are very personal, I met a Swedish man in
35:41
England eight years ago, we lived there for a long time and now we live here for the last two years
35:46
So, you know, everyone's got their own story for it. But I think what I experienced from talking to my friends
35:52
my partner, once he left the UK with me, is that young people do feel it
35:57
They feel that Britain is a very hard place to live in. Well, they're right, aren't they? Yeah, it's very disingenuous to blame Labour for the last two years
36:05
That's the thing that makes me chuckle. I mean, it is literally... I mean, you look at the number of EU nationals
36:09
who are still leaving in significant numbers. that they have made Britain a less pleasant place
36:16
Exactly. They have literally made Britain a less pleasant place and now they're trying to claim
36:20
that people are leaving because of Labour. It's extraordinary. You know, for my, you know, I was, how old was I
36:27
I was 17 when Brexit happened and for a lot of my friends, my generation
36:32
it was so sad. It felt like we were being cut off from the EU
36:37
And so for me now, I feel very lucky to be, to have the chance to live in the EU, to live in Sweden
36:41
I'm really happy here. I have a lot of friends who are looking for similar situations or wish they could find similar situations because it's not Labour's fault for the last two years
36:51
It's been the Tories that we were teenagers, you know, in that time. It's been the emotional social aspect of Brexit that can make us feel this isn't where we want to be anymore
37:03
And so I think it's very disingenuous and very frustrating for the right wing to take that and say, well, look, all these Brits leaving
37:08
you know, I can't speak for everyone, but a big part of it is we're leaving because of the place that you've made
37:13
Well, I mean, statistically, the numbers have barely shifted, so the reasons might change
37:19
but if the statistics remain the same, then yes, I mean, two things can be true at the same time
37:24
It is a lie to claim that there is any sort of brain drain going on but there is evidence that people are keener to go back to places like Poland or to take their new families their British families back to Poland
37:36
or Bangladesh, which comes in third. And the numbers of people, it's extraordinary to read about
37:43
oh, they're all moving to Dubai, and the numbers moving to Dubai have barely moved at all
37:48
But, yeah, I mean, that is the other element of it. even if it were true that people were upping sticks and legging it
37:55
two things would immediately occur to anybody honest. The first is, well, how awful that we took away their freedom of movement
38:04
Why on earth did we take away their freedom of movement? Because if it's down to Labour that they can't leave, it's down to us
38:10
If it's down to Labour that they want to leave, it's down to us that they can't go to the nearest countries
38:14
We literally took away their freedom of movement. Nadine Dorries told you to celebrate it
38:18
Was it Nadine Dorries? Well, one of them did. They all did. They took away your freedom of movement
38:23
And now they're telling you that you want to leave the country because of Labour, but you can't
38:27
because the Tories took away your freedom of movement. It's just bonkers. Absolutely bonkers
38:31
And the second thing that would occur to you in that moment, if you are keen to leave the country
38:35
because of the state of the country, then that's not on the current government
38:40
I mean... Ah, dear. Oh, well, I suppose it keeps me... It keeps me honest
38:47
James O'Brien on LBC. Live to make a field for Andy Burnham's address
38:52
That's a good running shirt you've got on there. Thank you. Oh, this means the world, everybody
38:56
It absolutely means the world to me. Friends, colleagues over the years, all here
39:02
Thank you all for coming to sunny Stubshire Cross. Hope is in the air
39:08
Can you feel it? Yes. Yeah, definitely. I want to say something at the start
39:13
This is not business as usual. This is none of the same
39:20
This is a change by election. Politics in this country, British politics, is tired
39:29
It needs a new script. And over the next four weeks, the people of Makerfield are going to write that script
39:37
And it's great that they're going to get that chance. This by-election will force Westminster to focus on the places it usually looks past
39:53
It will put the political parties on the hook to tell the people of Hindley, Hindley Green, Plattebridge, Abram, Ashton, Oral, Winstanley, what are they going to do for people in those places
40:11
And so they should be forced onto that hook because no one has done enough
40:17
We've had 40 years of policies that have hurt the high streets of this constituency
40:25
40 years of policies that have left people struggling to afford the everyday basics of their lives
40:35
Policies that took away the good jobs that were once in these communities
40:41
and have not done anything to replace them or put them back
40:45
policies that have left people here struggling to afford a good home
40:51
I want to make something really clear, though, in making these points
40:56
I am a downer. Far from it. I grew up here. I caught my first Evesway coach
41:08
Who knows Evesway? Anybody? He knows what I mean. I caught my first Evesway coach to an Everton away game without my dad in April 1984 from Ashton Town Centre
41:26
The FA Cup semi-final at Highbury. And I came back after a long day, picked up by my dad, one o'clock in the morning
41:37
Did he have a good day? Brilliant. Did you behave yourself? Yes
41:44
So that wasn't you on the pitch on Match of the Day then, was it? I love it so much that I brought my own family up here
41:54
I live here. I have lived here for 25 years. My home is two miles over there
42:02
I can walk to this campaign from where I live. My three kids went to a school just down there in Ashton, St Edmund Arrowsmith
42:14
The school run took past this club and they went on to win Stanley Corp
42:20
A borough at full, incredible educational organisations. Why? I think this is the point traditionally where your friendly neighbourhood radio presenter says
42:29
we can put a man on the moon, but we can't get a clean line to make a field. Andy Burnham there announcing his candidacy in the constituency where he will be standing
42:41
And I was 50-50 on whether to take it at all. But given that we could barely hear what he was saying 20% of the time
42:48
I think we'll pull out again and go back when the question and answer session has concluded
42:56
and perhaps get Chris Chambers, our man on the ground, to run through it for us
43:01
Before that, why are they not celebrating? The fall in net migration figures is absolutely extraordinary
43:10
not least because it's been delivered by a Labour government, albeit that Rishi Sunak's government deserves some of the credit for much of the drop
43:17
They made changes to the rules concerning care workers and international students
43:23
the single biggest reasons for the end of the so-called Boris wave
43:27
and then things introduced in March and April of 2024 are also having an effect
43:31
and Labour has, to the surprise of many traditional supporters, but by no means all, gone further
43:37
It's continued the tightening on things like minimum skills and salary thresholds for skilled worker visas
43:43
Tories are probably going to misrepresent the facts, despite the fact that, well, they're going to choose
43:49
between either lying about Labour's success or claiming the credit for it, and at the moment they're 52-48 lying
43:54
48% claiming the credit. Farage is just going to lie, because that's all he can really do
44:00
And what I don't understand is why all the people who said that they wanted it
44:05
are not now celebrating it. Keith's in Shoreditch. Keith, what would you like to say
44:10
Hi, James. Thanks for taking the call. You're welcome, Keith. Andy Burnham, when he said
44:15
for 40 years now, we've had policies that have depleted the high street
44:20
etc. And it's depleted living standards, isn't it? And we've been told for
44:25
well, a good 40 years now it's immigration. It's all that immigration
44:29
It's all it is. And so if they now accept that immigration has dropped, what's
44:35
next got to happen is that our living standards will obviously increase
44:39
It's the worst nightmare for a certain type of media figure, isn't it
44:43
Or media owner, really. Okay, so it's now net zero. It's a feasible case for net migration
44:49
hitting zero in the next couple of years. Who the hell are they
44:53
going to blame everything on. Exactly So their little game of financial gender that they been playing with the asset economy which is take it from the middle take it from the bottom put it up the top keep going
45:06
and we all know how that concludes, don't we? And, yeah, I can..
45:12
They just don't know. I give them too much credit, really, sometimes
45:16
They just don't know what to do, do they? Except what they've always done, which is demonise migrants, even when there aren't any
45:23
You carry on demonising it, try and turn a positive into a negative. I don't think it's a positive, but they should
45:28
And then, of course, underpinning it all is the culture of blame and othering. Yeah, and the living standards
45:34
because really democracy should be dead easy, shouldn't it? All you do is you raise the living standards of the majority
45:40
and guess what? They'll vote for you again. As opposed to feathering the nests of the tiny minority
45:46
In other news, Elon Musk is set to become a trillionaire sometime soon. Keith, lovely stuff, thank you
45:51
Tim's in Belfast. Tim, what would you like to say? Morning, James
45:54
Hello, Tim. I'm not in the least bit surprised that the figures make no difference
45:58
because I don't think it's ever been about immigration. I think it's always been about race. And I think the conflation of the fact that the figures have gone down
46:05
and now the problem is white people leaving the country is now the issue rather than the number of people coming into the country
46:16
That's the silent word, isn't it? Of course it is. Sorry. I'm normally a bit quicker on the uptick
46:21
But brain drain as not young people flee Labour's Britain in Britain
46:25
but white people flee Labour's Britain. Yep. That's what they're crossing. I mean, it's not true
46:29
The third most popular destination is Bangladesh, but it doesn't matter because that's what they're selling to their readers and listeners now
46:36
The implication of the story is that it is young white people. Yeah, of course
46:40
The educated young white people of Albany University are now clearing off
46:44
Yeah. And the other side of that coin is, I mean, I'm old enough to remember the 60s and 70s
46:50
70s, well the 70s and 80s more likely whenever immigration was always
46:54
connected with race. And the diversity issue was a huge problem. But
47:00
if you even look at what happened after Brexit when all the Europeans
47:04
left the United Kingdom, it really didn't, white immigration is not a problem anymore because it's not
47:10
connected to Europe. So immigration on both, whether it be from Europe
47:14
or whether it be from other parts of the world, has always been a
47:18
cover up for race, in my opinion. and I think the evidence is probably fair to justify that
47:24
You know, my optimistic mode, then it removes the fig leaf. They can't protect, so the racism might go back into hibernation
47:35
Of course, it never disappears, but you use immigration as a fig leaf
47:40
and you use the European Union and Freedom of Movement as a fig leaf to disguise your racism
47:46
and then when there aren't, I mean, it's a weird gamble, But when there is no net migration, what do the racists do
47:52
I mean, they try to turn on the people who are already here, but history suggests that's a much bigger sell to a population
47:59
than the fear of the incomer. I think that they have normalized it
48:06
I think they... I mean, it goes back to your subject and mine, the right-wing media
48:11
I think they have normalized it so that they... I think we'll see a rise in racism
48:16
Well, we have already. Nurses have gone up 84%. The Royal College of Nursing reports an increase of 84%
48:23
The Trade Union Congress looking at a similar picture. It's absolutely hideous and it's happening
48:29
But I don't know why I'm clinging to a bit more hope than you are. I just think we can go back to the days when racism was something to be ashamed of
48:37
Long gone, I think. Yeah, maybe. I just think overt racism is now acceptable
48:43
And people are literally going back to people saying things that they think are funny
48:47
where it's almost as if the whole sort of, it's now been banded as woke
48:51
but there was a time when the jokes that were told by people were looking back on them
48:56
And I told them because we weren't aware, like we were at school. I edited a university rag magazine
49:01
that if I looked at it now, I would be horrified. Yes, of course. But it changed because it was changed for us
49:08
and we were educated and now we're no longer being educated. I suppose you're just reminding me
49:12
that racism is not empirically grounded, whereas some of these policies and some of the optimism surrounding the policies
49:19
even as you don't welcome them, you might welcome the results, is built on the notion that it's empirically grounded
49:25
If the facts change, the racism changes. And I do believe that to be true
49:29
I mean, I think it is a lot harder to scare somebody about a mythical foreign threat
49:35
when there isn't a kernel of truth in it anymore. The numbers are not real
49:41
I mean, you know, here's a message from Emma who says, you are talking about controlled, authorised immigration
49:45
You seem to be forgetting about the thousands of boat people coming over, uncontrolled and unwanted
49:50
That's why people are not celebrating. It's down 40% in the same figures, and she either doesn't know or doesn't care
49:55
because she's just looking for that reason to still be angry, regardless of the fact that this government has delivered what they said that they wanted
50:03
And you may be right, but I'm going to cling to my optimism, Tim
50:08
even as the whole world swims in the opposite direction, direction because I just genuinely, and oddly, that's why I find myself in lockstep with these
50:17
two very conservative writers, big C and small C, because the facts have to matter eventually
50:24
It might take longer than it should. And of course, it's going to be held up, that process
50:29
by people lying about it for whatever reason. But ultimately, the facts have to matter
50:34
he says, hopefully. Speaking of facts, those scenes from Israel that I shared with you
50:40
yesterday i shared the audio with you um i'm a little bit haunted by them to be honest with you
50:45
not least our guest whose father the former raf pilot was was bound and um and abused by the
50:52
israeli security minister itamar ben gavir um i think it's important to try to work out why that
50:59
happened what what what is going on because if like me are deeply concerned about the rise in
51:04
anti-semitism everybody should be concerned about the rise in anti-semitism in this country
51:09
and the dangers of conflating Jewishness with Israeli, those pictures just seem to me to be unthinkably stupid
51:20
So we'll get into the question of what it all means and why he did it, I think, after this
51:25
James O'Brien on LBC. It's six minutes after 11, and this is an important but a very difficult conversation
51:34
not least because of all of the nonsense that swills around when we approach any territory adjacent to the territory we're about to approach
51:43
Let me read you two messages which are pretty close to anti-Semitic in one way
51:49
as you'll see, although the person sending them, the people sending them would either be disgusted or dispute that description
51:57
This is from Alex. BBC not mentioning the story about Israeli treatment of peace protesters
52:02
A borderline conspiracy theory, but also complete rollocks. Mate, if you just literally Google BBC Ben Gavir
52:10
you'll get at least three stories right at the top of your feed. Far-right Israeli minister condemned for taunting handcuffed Gaza flotilla
52:18
Irish foreign minister slams treatment of detainees by Israel. Gaza flotilla activists deported from Israel as backlash over treatment grows That all from the BBC So they got questions to answer and some of the presenters I think let down their audience by not for example picking up Nigel Farage lies
52:35
about net migration figures. But you can't indulge in these ludicrous conspiracies without
52:40
undermining any powerful points that you do have. And this is even worse from Sarah
52:45
I thought you were going to talk about Ben Gavir today. Obviously, pressure on you not to discuss
52:50
Israel the untouchable, whatever atrocities it perpetrates, same old, same old. So not only an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, but also personally offensive to me
53:01
And of course, if I had decided that the world had moved on, or that some stories had assumed a greater importance or resonance
53:08
then she'd have gone away absolutely convinced that this is yet more evidence of something that doesn't exist
53:14
The idea of me being lent on or squeezed in my coverage of these issues
53:18
it is obviously a very very popular conspiracy theory and you know the green candidate in
53:25
makerfield has already had to step down because it turns out his social media is also um containing
53:31
conspiracy theories i i spoke yesterday to to claire azuga whose father malcolm ducker is a
53:41
72-year-old British RAF veteran who was on that flotilla when its members were kidnapped in
53:51
international waters by the Israeli Defence Force. They were then transported to Israel
53:56
where they were bound and forced to kneel, while the National Security Minister, Itamar Ben-Gavir
54:03
abused them in the roundest fashion. And I know if you weren't listening, then you would
54:10
you probably should just be aware that this is it's not not traumatizing by any stretch
54:17
of the imagination but it's very powerful i saw my father's spine i would recognize his
54:22
spine anywhere so i know he's there and i noticed that his hands were not behind his back because
54:27
he can't get his hands behind his back so instead they were tired around his neck
54:31
you mean because of because of his age yeah yeah he's 72 so i just know he's not that flexible
54:38
so I noticed they were around his neck and I noticed that he wasn't as far bent down as the others
54:43
because he just physically can't be. I'm so sorry. Yeah, it's pretty horrific
54:47
And last time, James, because he was there in October and an Israeli soldier shouted at him
54:53
and he refused to obey because he said that's not how you talk to people, you have to use politeness
54:57
And then the guy kicked him in the back of his legs and forced him down onto the ground and that's what happened last time
55:02
So this is the behaviour of a supposed ally towards British citizens, and it is not isolated
55:11
Here is a little audio footage. You can watch the video of it on the LBC website
55:15
Here's a little bit of the audio footage of the circumstances that Malcolm, Clare's father
55:20
the RAF, former RAF pilot, found himself in. Be free, Palestine! Check it! Check it
55:28
The peace of Israel is from the people. Israel is free. I'm from Israel
55:36
So I've got two questions for you, and I hope to canvas as many answers
55:46
from as many different corners of the conversation as I can. The first is, why did he do this
55:51
I genuinely don't know why he would film himself violently abusing citizens of countries
56:00
that have been incredibly supportive of Israel over the years, I mean, up to and including elements of the recent engagement with Iran
56:09
but obviously not in the case of the United Kingdom, not joining in full-throatedly with it
56:14
but certainly still supplying support and supply... Why would he do this
56:19
03456060973. The Israeli National Security Minister filming himself marching around a detention centre
56:29
where utterly peaceable people are being detained, having been illegally captured in international waters
56:38
a couple of hundred miles away from Israeli waters, they just swoop in, kidnap these people, transport them back to..
56:46
I mean, listen, I want to believe that this doesn't play well with the Israeli people
56:52
I want you to tell me that there's something else going on here
56:56
because he's still, I mean, I know Netanyahu has condemned him, but he's still got a job
57:02
Imagine if a British politician was filmed doing that to Israelis. Imagine if there was a peaceful Israeli protest somewhere
57:11
and they sent in the army, scooped up IDF veterans and old ladies off the pavement
57:19
or off a boat or off a float, took them back to Wormwood Scrubs
57:24
tied their hands, made them kneel on the floor, and then, I don't know
57:30
Yvette Cooper was filmed marching around the place saying, welcome to the United Kingdom
57:35
we're in China. What the... What would happen? Actually, I'm going to run with that for a moment
57:41
That's what I want you to picture. I want you to picture... Who would it be? Who's the security
57:45
It's a sort of one down from Yvette Cooper, probably. I don't know
57:50
Literally. taking Israeli, peaceful Israeli protesters, tying their hands together, making them kneel
57:57
and then filming herself swanning around the room, spitting abuse at them
58:03
What do you think would happen? What do you think would happen if the boot, as it were
58:10
were to be on the other foot? Genuine question. I don't necessarily want you to ring in with it
58:15
I just want you to dwell upon it for a moment before answering the question that I am asking
58:19
What is going on here? And, again, for people with a better understanding of Israeli politics than I have, why has he not been sacked? Why has he not been sacked? 03456060973
58:36
I also invite you this hour to contribute to the conversation from a slightly more emotional perspective
58:45
how does it make you feel when you see that especially perhaps as a Jewish
58:49
person who knows that the conflation of your identity with the actions of the modern
58:54
state of Israel or at least the regime of Benjamin Netanyahu is I mean tragically
59:01
but I think inarguably a driver of some of the anti-Semitism that we're currently witnessing on our streets
59:07
You find me somebody who is displaying anti-Semitic tendencies, whether it's in a text of this programme
59:13
or whether it's in much more vile and serious contexts, and I will show you someone who is at least in part
59:19
animated by the actions of the Israeli regime. You should be able to keep the two separate
59:24
We manage to get almost equal accusations of being anti-Semitic and of being an Israeli shill when we're discussing these matters
59:32
So you know you're getting something right. So we managed to do it. The Israeli regime doesn't. Netanyahu and his most vocal supporters
59:40
will often claim that they are acting as an agent of the Jewish people, so they make the
59:44
conflation all the time, which is deeply unhelpful, deeply unhelpful to anybody concerned
59:52
about and desperate to reduce the rise in anti-Semitism in this country
59:57
But then when you watch something like this and you're trying to argue with people about the perforated line and just because you're Israeli doesn't mean you support
1:00:07
this or just because you're Jewish doesn't mean that you support what's going on. And then you see scenes like this from a government minister, a government minister. And he's
1:00:18
as far as I'm aware, at quarter past eleven on Friday morning, he's still in his job
1:00:22
And I saw this stuff on Wednesday. He's still in his job
1:00:27
Again, pause. Imagine, for a moment, for a moment, that this was a British politician with Israeli peace protesters
1:00:42
illegally kidnapped, bound and abused, while a politician marches up and down the room
1:00:49
filming herself or himself. Oh, I've put Yvette Cooper on this particular hook
1:00:55
That's deeply unfair. She's got enough to worry about. Filming themselves, abusing and mocking
1:01:01
peaceful citizens of a supposedly friendly country. Why has he done it
1:01:07
Genuine question. I mean, not just a genuine question. It's a bloody important question
1:01:11
Why has he done it? 0345 6060 973. I know quite a lot about him
1:01:17
The fact that he is in the cabinet at all is a deep, deep, deep disgrace
1:01:22
But this behavior, this is off the charts. Why has he done it and why is he still there
1:01:28
Why is he still in a job? And listen, if you can't answer either of those questions
1:01:32
because I can't, I just want to know how that footage made you feel. 0345 60 60 973 is the number that you need
1:01:40
How did that footage make you feel? Watching, we now know, a 72-year-old RAF veteran
1:01:47
being abused by this character. It's Amar Ben-Gavir. Why did he do it
1:01:56
Why hasn't he been sacked? And how did it make you feel? And that final question only really works
1:02:02
if we get as many answers from as many different perspectives as possible. Except possibly somebody minded to ring it
1:02:08
and tell me that they loved it. I don't know if I could actually stomach that today
1:02:12
But presumably you exist, right? Maybe I have to stomach it. Presumably he's got an audience that he is appealing to
1:02:18
and there may be a little bit of crossover with my audience. Why did he do it? Why hasn't he been sacked
1:02:24
How did it make you feel? 0345 6060 973. James O'Brien on LBC
1:02:31
15 minutes after 11 is the time. I played you a little interview on Wednesday with Arab Balghouti
1:02:38
the son of Marwan Balghouti, who was in prison in Israel after being accused of involvement in the deaths of five people
1:02:48
declared an unfair trial by an Israeli organisation that looks into these things
1:02:55
I forget the name of it. But I tell you, because I'm asking you how this footage makes you feel
1:02:58
or how you react to it. And I have to tell you that it makes me wonder
1:03:04
what happens to Palestinian prisoners when the security minister isn't filming himself
1:03:10
and there have been some extraordinary reports recently most recently in the new york times but
1:03:16
you you know there have been plenty of others always disputed by israel always labeled as blood
1:03:22
libels or similar by people who seem incapable of of recognizing the basic humanity of of
1:03:29
palestinians but if they're going to film themselves doing that to a 72 year old xraf
1:03:35
British grandfather, what the heck do you think they're doing? Is that a fair question? What on
1:03:43
earth do you think they're doing when they're not filming themselves to Palestinians whose names
1:03:47
we'll never know? Just a question. Farah is in Southfields. Farah, what would you like to say
1:03:54
Hi, so I'm just gonna, thank you so much for having me on. I'm sorry for keep calling
1:03:59
The reason that I believe that he's doing it is that it's perfectly on brand for what he's
1:04:05
what he represents. I'm going to answer your second question first. The reason he hasn't been sacked
1:04:09
is that he's part of a coalition government that props up Netanyahu. Netanyahu will be facing
1:04:15
he is facing corruption charges. He, you know, the laws, the case keeps being, you know, pushed back
1:04:23
This is a man who is part of a government that has repeatedly tried to pull out and, you know
1:04:31
thwart the ceasefires. He fully supports the persecution of Palestinians. And you and I have
1:04:38
spoken before about the fact that there were some Israeli soldiers who, trigger warning
1:04:46
gang raped a Palestinian man in prison. The footage was released by the Attorney General
1:04:51
the then Attorney General of the IDF. This is a man who supported the storming of the prisons that
1:04:57
were holding the IDF soldiers and trying to release them. He fully supported what was going on. This is
1:05:04
a man who has introduced the death penalty by hanging of Palestinian prisoners. This is what
1:05:12
exclusively Palestinian prisoners. It's important to make that point. The legislation reintroduces
1:05:18
the death penalty for only one ethnic section of the society or only for Palestinian people
1:05:24
not for Israeli people. No, and also there's no right of appeal for that law
1:05:28
None. Let me steer you back, if I can, to the, if you like, the self-inflicted damage
1:05:35
because this does nothing but harm to Israel's international reputation. How does that help him
1:05:42
I think the reason he's doing it is that he is, to a certain degree, an isolationist
1:05:46
All he needs is the support of the American government, and they can carry on what they're doing
1:05:51
The fact of the matter is that he doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks
1:05:55
Otherwise, he wouldn't behave in this way. He is very much an Israel first person
1:06:00
And there's no problem with supporting your country. But he is an expansionist
1:06:05
He is part of the settler movement. Wes Streeting actually caused the violent settlers
1:06:10
domestic terrorists, on a Sunday morning show last year. We know what he has leaked in his text in terms of Israel
1:06:19
This man is doing nothing but harm. I believe he is putting Israelis at risk
1:06:26
He is not interested in their security. And I think he's also, for those people who keep conflating
1:06:33
Jews with what the Israeli government is doing at harm. And this is going to do nothing but fuel anti-Semitism and ignorance
1:06:41
And that puts our British Jews at risk. And we can see what's been happening to them
1:06:45
And just not a word of caution to you, but just for the benefit of the tape
1:06:51
that you are describing something, not excusing it. Explanation is not excuse
1:06:58
And, of course, in a logical universe, you wouldn't see an increase in anti-Semitism
1:07:02
because of the actions of one Jewish man or one Israeli politician or even an entire Israeli government
1:07:08
But it is pointless to pretend that there's not a tragic relationship between the two
1:07:13
I mean, the idea then that he sees an Israel in which he could get elected
1:07:21
he could win an election would be an Israel that is entirely removed entirely cut off from the rest of the world A lot of people believe that Benjamin Netanyahu should already be persona non grata on the international stage
1:07:34
Of course, in most countries, he wouldn't be able to land in without getting arrested on an international arrest warrant
1:07:40
but he's in and out of the White House more often than Melania Trump. Is it the idea that you cut off even..
1:07:47
You make Israel such a pariah state that somebody like him could then triumph politically
1:07:54
I suppose I'm looking for logic. There might not be any here, but that seems to be a possibility
1:07:59
I don't think that he would become Prime Minister. I don't believe that Israel is full of racists and fascists
1:08:08
No, but if they're frightened enough. No, that doesn't work either, does it
1:08:12
Because he's not really... No one's going to be frightened of Malcolm Ducker, a 72-year-old RAF veteran whose arms are so creaky
1:08:19
that they can't even tie his hands behind his back. They have to tie them behind his neck. and then in Marks Ben-Gavir to gloat and cheer and mock and abuse
1:08:27
I don't know. Listen, I make no apology for looking for logic. Serves me quite well
1:08:31
But sometimes perhaps there isn't any. Farah, thank you. Anat is in Islington
1:08:35
Anat, what would you like to say? Hi, James. First of all, I quite agree with a few things that Farah said
1:08:43
whatever I managed to hear. Okay. I just want to say that as an Israeli
1:08:48
I'm deeply ashamed and furious and appalled by this film, and that's only the tip of the iceberg
1:08:56
Obviously, Ben Veer doesn't represent me as an Israeli. He doesn't represent the majority of Israelis
1:09:03
Who does he represent? Forgive my ignorance, but who does he represent? Well, let's go to the fact
1:09:10
He's a convicted terrorist. That's not something I say. No. That's, you know, that's the fact
1:09:18
He is an extremist and everything that he does and all the hate that he incites and how he speaks, it's all part of his campaign to draw people in on the basis of fear, of hatred
1:09:38
He doesn't he doesn't provide any solution. Even his law, the debt sentence that he was proposing
1:09:50
this is something that exists but has never practiced. There's plenty of flaws in that law
1:09:57
It's a populist move. This is everything else that he does. But I mean, I hope this isn't naive
1:10:04
I genuinely, I mean, I quite passionately hope this isn't naive. I presume the massive majority of Israelis are like you
1:10:10
They are disgusted by this. Is it a quirk of your electoral system that he manages to exercise such power
1:10:16
Or am I being naive when I just presume that almost everybody will be utterly disgusted by what they've just seen
1:10:25
I think, I would like to believe, and as far as I know, most people are disgusted
1:10:32
So what's the ideology then of the people to whom he appeals
1:10:36
I mean, is it an expansionist Israel? It would be, you know, completely taking over Gaza and the West Bank and possibly even heading as far as the Kingdom of Jordan
1:10:49
Is that, and I don't know how big that group is, but is that who he's appealing to
1:10:52
Who is he appealing to? Well, I think he searched for more votes elsewhere
1:10:58
elsewhere. And I think what helps him do that is by him
1:11:03
showing up as if he's going to, you know, create order and he's going to give people
1:11:10
revenge and, like, find to convince people that he's the right man for it, while
1:11:15
basically everything he does on paper is quite poorly done. Yeah. I mean, he's an
1:11:24
idiot, but he's a very dangerous idiot. He is an idiot, but he's a dangerous idiot
1:11:28
it i agree but the fact is that i think a lot of people when they fear they don't think clearly
1:11:33
and um and i think there is a buzz around him but it's to do with very specific people so yes there
1:11:41
are a group of extremists that he appeals to but i think some some people are being fooled by him
1:11:47
and and and i think the only reason why he's in government boils down to netanyahu
1:11:53
Netanyahu 10 years ago, 15 years ago would never have someone like Ben Gavir in his government
1:12:00
I mean, Ben Gavir is the person who threatened Prime Minister Rabin Yes
1:12:05
Okay, so it's really important to remember that and he was a persona non grata
1:12:11
even for Netanyahu but Netanyahu is in such a messed up state
1:12:16
And he knows exactly who Ben Gavir is which makes his condemnation
1:12:21
while not sacking him seem quite mealy-mouthed? Of course, he wouldn't sack him because he needs him
1:12:27
Because then his own government falls. Yeah, it's not just about the government falling
1:12:32
because, you know, he's coming to election soon, but it's about the next phase
1:12:38
Right. So he needs Benzir because he needs him to support the coalition
1:12:44
And that's the only reason why he's willing to withstand whatever Benzir is doing
1:12:51
He doesn't care about Israel. Netanyahu doesn't care about Israel. He cares about himself
1:12:58
That's the only thing he cares about. He's a proper narcissist. Yeah, well, I mean, the ysis is pretty irresistible, Annette
1:13:08
You've nailed it. And yet I still have this sense of, a curious sense of wonder
1:13:13
at how hideous this behavior is in the context of, you know
1:13:16
liberal democracy or in the context of Western values which is something that
1:13:23
Israel often displays. Do you think it's going to do real... I mean, here's
1:13:29
the thing that I almost can't articulate the question, but Farah did it
1:13:33
very well. We know everybody honest knows that the rise in anti-Semitism
1:13:39
is unfairly linked to the actions of the Israeli government, to the actions
1:13:45
of Benjamin Netanyahu and the situation in Gaza. Everybody knows that. I wish it wasn't
1:13:52
I wish that when a government does something, an Israeli government does something
1:13:56
it didn't create, in the minds of the kind of people that were messaging me earlier
1:14:00
the idea that every Jew is responsible for it. But we know that it does do that
1:14:05
Would Ben Gavir understand that? Would you go as far as to suggest
1:14:08
that he is deliberately fomenting anti-Jewish sentiment because he's obviously fermenting anti-Israeli sentiment
1:14:16
but would he have the wit to understand that he's probably making an already horrible situation
1:14:21
for British Jews much worse? Well, you know, I can't say what goes on in his head
1:14:27
If I'm honest, I don't want to know. No, of course. But, you know, it's quite clear
1:14:32
that he doesn't think long-term. He is an idiot. He speaks to his base
1:14:37
and he wished to extend a base. That's all he cares about
1:14:41
He doesn't think... He thinks he doesn't think things globally. And if I'm honest, he's like the head
1:14:48
the minister for, I don't know how you call it in Israel
1:14:53
but yeah the internal security or something But like what he does he actually put Israelis and Jews in danger more than anyone else I mean except for Netanyahu probably And he a part of a group of extremists that
1:15:07
you know, extremists to me, they don't think logically. That's how they become extremists
1:15:13
You know, there is the paradox there, but how do you solve it? The only way to solve it is by
1:15:20
ousting them from Israeli politics. And hopefully that will happen in the coming election
1:15:27
When is the coming election? Well, we don't know. And as people say
1:15:32
we don't know if it's going to be the 1st of September, the 15th, or maybe in October
1:15:37
Okay, so it's towards the end of this year. It's towards the end of this year. And I suppose for outsiders
1:15:45
people without deep knowledge of Israeli politics, that it will be confusing to many people listening to this
1:15:53
because if you vote for Netanyahu, you get Ben Gavir. Of course
1:15:58
Yeah, I mean, I don't see how anyone can vote for Netanyahu
1:16:03
Well, I mean, you know that they do and they will, but that's why I find the condemnation a little disingenuous
1:16:08
That idea that if you vote for Netanyahu, you get Ben Gavir. And yet somehow Netanyahu can keep himself disassociated
1:16:17
disassociated from Ben Gavir's latest behaviour by condemning it. Thank you. Thank you so much
1:16:23
I'm so sorry for the fact that you and so many other people
1:16:27
end up being held a little bit responsible for the actions of someone
1:16:31
who is obviously a dangerous, narcissistic idiot, and that's being polite. Here's Dominic Ellis with your headlines
1:16:38
James O'Brien on LBC. 36 is the time. I didn't realise it was an old election slogan
1:16:44
This is from a friend of mine who spends time in this country and in Israel
1:16:50
Why did he do it? In the recording, he's repeating his old election slogan about becoming the landlord of law and order in Israel
1:16:56
It's a literal translation from the Hebrew that roughly means asserting control and authority
1:17:02
I did hear one newscaster using the word master. We are the masters
1:17:06
That's really helpful from Bella, this distinction in translation. So you can never translate things completely literally
1:17:13
but the assertion of control and authority goes a little bit further than the word landlord
1:17:17
He promised to tackle crime, particularly in southern Israel, yet he has failed to deliver on that promise
1:17:22
and if anything, only drag both the police force and the country
1:17:26
further into dysfunction and moral corruption. What he's doing now feels like little more than a calculated photo opportunity
1:17:33
presenting himself as the tough, forceful, quote, landlord, end quotes, confronting those that his supporters would label as anti-Israel
1:17:40
or more accurately, anti his narrow and damaging vision of Israel. It seems clearly aimed at shoring up support ahead of the autumn elections
1:17:49
especially as current polling suggests his party could lose up to two-thirds of its strength
1:17:55
Why is he still in office? Because Benjamin Netanyahu has now tied his fate, his political fate, to Ben Govehr and his extremist allies
1:18:02
I do not think one good thing of Netanyahu in any respect
1:18:06
but I do believe that at some level he deeply regrets his choice
1:18:12
That's helpful, very helpful. Very sad, isn't it? It's a very poignant inquiry, this one
1:18:17
But Netanyahu has libeled all of these people. He's libeled Malcolm Ducker
1:18:22
He's claimed that everybody on this flotilla was a supporter of Hamas. So even as he condemns Ben Gavir, he also..
1:18:30
I don't know if it's worth crowdfunding to sue him but for calling them supporters of Hamas
1:18:37
which is, of course, the narrative that has taken hold in parts of our country's media as well
1:18:43
that by mourning the death of a Palestinian baby, you are somehow supporting the monsters
1:18:48
responsible for the October 7th atrocity. And I mention that only because this
1:18:52
in from Oliver, have I got this right? On Thursday, you used the biggest show on the radio
1:18:57
Well, that's not quite true, Oliver. It's the most listened-to speech radio program
1:19:01
in the history of commercial radio in the UK. There are still some bigger ones out there
1:19:06
You use the biggest show on the radio to bring to the attention of your audience a gross injustice being inflicted on innocent people
1:19:12
You tell said big audience to research the injustice in question 24 hours ahead of a future conversation
1:19:17
24 hours later, you keep your promise, yet someone who was highly unlikely to have known anything about the injustice
1:19:22
had you not brought it to their attention then accused you of being some sort of shill for not talking about it
1:19:27
before you had even said hello and good morning for the day. I find that person utterly disgusting, James
1:19:33
You really are a better person than me. You don't have to read this out loud. I just want you to know this
1:19:37
Well, I did read it out loud because you speak for many. And, of course, that was Sarah accusing me of having bowed to pressure
1:19:43
and decided not to talk about this issue. There'll be plenty of other people on entirely the other side of the room
1:19:49
accusing me of blood libels and anti-Semitism. That's the world we live in
1:19:54
That's why the only conscience you can ever answer to on mornings like this is your own
1:19:57
And I do. And I'm fine. But thank you. Adil is in Muswell Hill to take us back to these extraordinary actions
1:20:05
and the possible reasons behind them. Adil, what would you like to say? Hi, James. Thanks for having me
1:20:11
You're very welcome. I researched this question a while ago because it was puzzling
1:20:15
and there's the Shalom Hartman Institute, which is an Israeli-based organisation, didn't hold teeth on why is Ben Gavir so popular
1:20:25
I'll summarise it very quickly in five key points. I can't do it justice
1:20:29
But I think, first of all, he represents a very strong sense of law and order and security
1:20:37
So he promotes hard-line security policies. For example, he wants to push measures like expanding gun ownership and neighbourhood security initiatives, which resonate with his base
1:20:49
Secondly, he appeals to nationalist and religious voters. So again, he centres on Jewish nationalism
1:20:56
He opposes a Palestinian statehood. And that resonates with the right wing and the religious communities that support him
1:21:05
And this, again, links in with the broader shift the country is undergoing to the right
1:21:12
So, again, there was a recent poll. I hesitate to interrupt you because you obviously have got a lot to get through
1:21:20
But all of this explains actions and behaviors up to a point that was passed, violently passed
1:21:29
by the events of Wednesday, why he is filming himself abuse British military veteran old-age pensioners
1:21:38
That is not answered by any of the things that you've said so far, is it? No, but he's known to be a provocative figure
1:21:46
So another point, he uses the media to attract attention and that's what mobilises his supporters
1:21:52
So he does these things on purpose. Because he's got a loyal base
1:21:57
and he knows that he can do whatever he wants and get away with it. And this is how he does it
1:22:03
And, you know, you even think back during the Gaza war, those things he did during that period
1:22:08
which should have turned many heads, but didn't. So the whole Israeli government has been proven
1:22:16
that they can do whatever they want and get away with it. They will never be held accountable
1:22:20
And that's why it's a little disingenuous of Netanyahu to condemn him
1:22:24
while simultaneously libeling the activists on the flotilla and not sacking him for entirely self reasons Because I suppose that we almost describing Ben Govear then as a symptom
1:22:38
as opposed to a cause of this particular, of a broader malaise, a broader horror
1:22:44
Absolutely, and there's no need for Netanyahu to, you know, sack him
1:22:50
Well, there's no call for it, as far as I can tell. and that's why it's possibly
1:22:54
I use the word conflation a lot when we're discussing these issues but conflating Ben
1:22:58
Gavir with Netanyahu seems to me to be an entirely fair thing to do
1:23:03
given that the former relies upon the latter for his position and his status
1:23:07
and the latter relies upon the former for his position and his status so you can't
1:23:10
really condemn it and not sack him but why is there no clamour for him
1:23:14
well perhaps there is I just haven't heard it myself I'm cracking on because there's a lot of people that want to get involved
1:23:18
and I'm grateful for your overview. Mark is in Bristol Mark, what would you like to say
1:23:24
Hi, good morning. Hello, mate. Very simply, we need to remember that the way Netanyahu and his governments
1:23:35
have pushed political viewpoints in Israel for the last 15, 20 years
1:23:41
is by saying that everybody basically hates Israel. We will always be victims
1:23:48
And it's a monologue that's been going on for years and justifies all sorts of behavior
1:23:55
To add to that the occupation of the West Bank and the awful things going on there over the years
1:24:02
and the determination by the right wing, specifically the religious right wing
1:24:08
to hang on to that piece of land and justify it. then you look at Ben Gvir and you see that he is a guy with a history of being part of a prescribed terrorist organization
1:24:22
Jewish terrorist organization in Israel. And add to that that he has a messiah complex, then you end up, and he doesn't really care
1:24:32
and he wants people to hate Israel because that way he can justify all his behavior
1:24:37
and you end up with a perfect storm of a mad guy
1:24:40
running the country and jeopardizing everybody's life. It's much simpler. No, elements of it are simple
1:24:48
but some bits of it are more complicated. And I think we'd probably both agree that this..
1:24:53
One of the ugliest things about this worldview is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy
1:24:59
You know, hatred grows as his mode of politics continues. and it won't be him that is most hurt by that
1:25:08
It's already being brought to bear upon British Jews in this country
1:25:12
But how wrong is it of British commentators like me to still sort of separate him from the rest of the Israeli government
1:25:23
Because I wouldn't do that in Britain if a cabinet minister in this country did something
1:25:27
I'm going to jump in because I'll give you an example. Go on. There's a guy called Gidon Saar who was outside the government
1:25:33
and he was actually part of the brief government of change a few years ago that survived for a year
1:25:39
who's a kind of centrist-leaning right, well, maybe he's more right than centrist, but a right-wing guy
1:25:44
who came out yesterday and said, commented on the fact, and I saw a lot of Israeli people talking about this
1:25:51
he came out and said, it's okay that you did what you did
1:25:55
it's just really stupid that you showed it to the world. Wow. So there you have..
1:26:00
That is your right to interrupt me. That's the answer to the question of whether or not he is some sort of rogue operator or whether or not he is more than tolerated by the broader regime and by the broader political establishment
1:26:13
And your answer with that example is that this is absolutely accepted and tolerated
1:26:17
They just wish he hadn't filmed it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they have an agenda
1:26:23
It's really simple. The world hates us. We have to look after ourselves
1:26:27
We're surrounded by enemies, even though they keep wanting to make peace with us. Not all of them
1:26:31
trying to make peace with us. And we have very legitimate enemies there
1:26:35
I don't want anybody listening to this to think that I'm saying we are only the bad guys in the neighbourhood
1:26:41
Of course. But we have ridden on the back of that to maintain a worldview that is extremist in view
1:26:50
hangs on to the West Bank, expansionist policy, and you end up with nuts like him in power
1:26:57
But we have to think of him like chump. This guy, you can't, you know, this guy, you can't get inside his head
1:27:03
This is a guy who took the little thing on his lapel
1:27:07
which was to represent the victims of the hostages, the hostages, turned it upside down and turned it into a noose
1:27:15
You know, this is a guy whose birthday cake, on his birthday cake two weeks ago, had the same picture
1:27:20
His wife gave him a birthday cake with a picture of a noose on it, celebrating the law, you know, that they're now allowed to, etc
1:27:27
They can kill Palestinians. So to try and understand it, this is a government..
1:27:31
You have to try, you have to try, you have to try. It doesn't mean you'll ever succeed, but when you stop trying, the doors fly open, don't they
1:27:40
Well, no, you're absolutely right, but the bottom line is to try and put it into logical..
1:27:45
Israel, Israeli, this government, and governments before it, but this one in particular
1:27:50
has lost its moral line, crossed that moral line years ago. The fact that they would not even do an independent inquiry about the 7th of October
1:28:04
and they're fighting tooth and nail not to shows you where their moral line is
1:28:08
The fact that they refused ceasefires and they didn't prioritize the hostages
1:28:12
shows you where their moral line is. They are not interested, as a very nice lady said before, I think her name was a nut
1:28:19
They do not care about the Israelis. They love the fact that the Jews are being victimized because it legitimizes their behavior. It is an awful, awful situation that is a representation of the world we live in today
1:28:38
and it is aggravated because of the way the world runs its politics anyway
1:28:43
So he's just feeding into Trumpyism or Tharagism or what was urbanism or whatever you want to call it
1:28:51
You know, it's time to be able to, like, get up and shout and scream
1:28:55
and say awful things and get away with it. And be vile, performatively cruel to be..
1:29:02
You talk about it all the time. I try. I think you speak as a dual citizen, Mark. Is that right
1:29:08
Yeah, yeah. I was born here, moved there, woke up one day to the horrors of what was going on
1:29:15
came back, wondering what I'm doing here with a bunch of crazies running around doing the same thing
1:29:20
And I'm like, bloody hell, where can I go? They can't even let go to Europe anymore
1:29:25
You're taking away your freedom of movement. Good Lord. And I'm like, so here we are
1:29:33
Here we are. I grew up, grew up two parents who were born in the UK, fought in the Second World War
1:29:39
and I grew up in a country of optimism and hope, and we're like, bloody hell, mate, what
1:29:44
the hell's going on, you know? But, you know, we're a bit, you know, we feed into it, we buy into it, and we, you know
1:29:51
we love to, you know, we don't want to see the writing on the wall. No, no, no, exactly
1:29:56
And that's why, even as I said, and I know you agree, even when we, We can't understand it. We have to keep trying because we understand where it goes
1:30:04
And the important thing to do is to point out that that is the direction of traffic
1:30:09
And sometimes that gets you into an enormous amount of trouble. As Miss Anne Harriman at the Southbank Centre has been finding out this week
1:30:17
just warning about the possible direction of traffic can sometimes be like a kryptonite
1:30:25
to a certain type of journalist or media organisation. 10 to 12 is the time
1:30:32
James O'Brien on LBC. 11.52 is the time. Quick message from Robert
1:30:37
When you say in walks, Ben Gavir, it may be worth expanding the picture
1:30:41
with flanked by his close security detail that he has to lean around to act bravely
1:30:46
against the shackled prostrated prisoners, including, my words now, the 72-year-old RAF veteran Malcolm Ducker
1:30:53
whose physical condition is such that they couldn't even tie his hands behind his back
1:31:00
so they had to tie them behind his neck as his daughter explained to us yesterday. I love this line from Robert
1:31:05
I've never seen anyone look so cowardly when trying to act hard
1:31:09
And a lot of respect and gratitude for all of the callers that hour
1:31:13
Most recently Mark who has earned himself a small army of admirers, myself included
1:31:19
11.53 is the time. To the states where Simon Marks awaits. And, oh, boy, Cuba
1:31:27
Well, actually, let's start with this fear you expressed earlier in the week
1:31:30
that Donald Trump was essentially setting up a slush fund for friendly criminals
1:31:36
Well, that's exactly what he's doing. But now, James, he is facing monumental pushback from Republicans on Capitol Hill
1:31:45
who are enraged about what many here are describing, many ysts are describing as the most naked effort to engage in corrupt practices by any president in American history
1:32:02
And yesterday, when the acting attorney general, Todd Blanche, went to Capitol Hill for lunch with Republicans
1:32:10
he found himself on the receiving end of huge pushback from more than 25 Republicans up on Capitol Hill
1:32:20
telling him that this idea that Donald Trump has forced Todd Blanche to implement
1:32:26
and remember, this is what happens when the traditional but not constitutionally guaranteed independence of the Department of Justice
1:32:34
is completely eviscerated by an American president who has turned the Department of Justice now not only into his personal office of retribution
1:32:45
but also into an ATM, a cash machine, potentially for his mates
1:32:51
If we just spin back, you will remember that Donald Trump's businesses and his tax returns were being audited by the IRS, the American equivalent of HMRC
1:33:02
Some of those tax returns leaked to the American public. Donald Trump, as president, sued his own government for $10 billion
1:33:11
sued the government over the leaking of those tax returns. The case ran into all sorts of difficulty in court
1:33:21
It was then that the Trump administration said to Todd Blanche, OK, we're going to pull this lawsuit
1:33:29
But in exchange, we want this slush fund created. $1.776 billion, 1776
1:33:38
It's the 250th anniversary of American independence that is going to be made available to people who claim
1:33:45
that Joe Biden unleashed weaponized lawfare against them. In other words, politically motivated prosecutions
1:33:54
Now, the Trump family would not be eligible for that cash. We were told initially that all they were getting out of this whole arrangement was an apology over the leaking of some of the tax returns
1:34:07
In fact, 24 hours later, we also learned that what the Trump family, the president himself, and the Trump organization was receiving was complete immunity
1:34:18
An agreement by the IRS that it would not pursue any claims on past tax returns
1:34:26
I mean, that had the potential to save the Trumps about $100 million in possible penalties that they might have been looking at as a result of IRS enforcement
1:34:36
I mean, why would you need that in place if you hadn't done anything wrong
1:34:43
Well, I mean, precisely. And, you know, we don't know if the audit was still ongoing
1:34:49
I mean, certainly a couple of years ago, one of Donald Trump's sons indicated that it was
1:34:56
But then this idea also to set up this fund that anybody who can claim they were victimized and weaponized by the Biden administration could go after the cash raised huge questions about whether that meant the January the 6th insurrectionists would be eligible for the cash
1:35:15
Clearly, they would be, including some January the 6th insurrectionists who have since been convicted of other crimes and returned to jail, including one particular case of a January 6th insurrectionist later arrested on child molestation charges
1:35:31
So members of Congress were sort of asking in open hearings the acting attorney general, would that figure be eligible for some of this cash
1:35:41
And he absolutely sidestepped the question. So the Trump administration now has found that every camel's back has a straw that breaks it
1:35:51
Why? Why now? And in the case of this weaponisation fund, it's the Republicans that are demonstrating some spine
1:35:58
and turning around to Trump and saying, we're not doing this. Why now
1:36:04
Well, because they're terrified. It's not the worst thing he's done, is it
1:36:09
No, I mean, it's up there. It's certainly up there with many of the worst things that he's done
1:36:14
But the answer to your question is because they are angry with him
1:36:18
They are angry over the way in which he has purged the party, effectively, of some of their friends
1:36:25
Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana last week, thrown out by Republican voters in Louisiana in a primary contest as the result of Donald Trump's intervention
1:36:36
They're furious about what the president is doing down in Texas, endorsing a scandal ridden, impeached former attorney general of Texas, Ken Paxton, in many ways, the Donald Trump of Texas, endorsing him over their friend, the incumbent Senator John Cornyn
1:36:56
and they're also terrified for their own skins. They're about to go home for the Memorial Day weekend
1:37:02
They are going to face so much anger from their constituents in their home states
1:37:08
as we also wait to see whether the price of petrol here is going to tick up
1:37:13
on average, above $5.02 a gallon, the high point that it hit in Joe Biden's presidency
1:37:22
There's every indication that that's going to take place. bond markets are soaring credits getting harder to find here I can tell you here in Washington D the property market is at a complete standstill The Fed is going to have its hands tied again by economic circumstances
1:37:38
and won't be able to do Donald Trump's bidding in terms of dropping interest rates
1:37:43
So those lawmakers are terrified for their own futures as they prepare to face voters in November
1:37:50
and realise how many of these presidents' policies, including this sort of naked act at corruption
1:37:56
is just resulting in enormous pushback from the country. So, I mean, we're not going to have time to talk about Cuba
1:38:05
but it's fairly easily explained as he's desperately trying to distract attention away from all the things that you're talking about
1:38:09
by potentially starting another war or doing another Venezuela. But after we last spoke, it occurred to me
1:38:14
that Trump's patronage is still essential to get the Republican nomination but it is probably a net negative when that nomination
1:38:24
that nominee actually fights the election. So it's as if the stamp of Trump gets you the Republican nomination
1:38:30
but hobbles you when you actually are up against a Democrat. Yeah, if you're Donald Trump
1:38:36
you can pick off individual Republicans that have crossed you. Yeah. But if we're now at the stage where 25 Republicans
1:38:43
in the US Senate yesterday crossed you, do you really have the juice to pick all of them off
1:38:49
almost certainly not. And that was always the point because you know the numbers need to be
1:38:55
there not just the principles. Simon Marks have a lovely weekend thank you. Forgive my slightly
1:39:00
curtailed account of what's going on regarding Cuba but that is basically it. Another
1:39:05
Venezuelan style assault being mooted entirely for domestic reasons because of the need to distract
1:39:11
from this epic corruption. I probably misspoke when I said it's not the worst thing he's done
1:39:15
I mean it's not the worst thing he's done but only because he's so awful
1:39:19
I can't wait to see Dick Littlejohn's column on why he approves of public money being given to criminals
1:39:24
I can't wait for that because you remember old Dick he thinks that Donald Trump should be in charge over here
1:39:30
although as far as I can tell he hasn't written a single word on that particular subject since the Iran adventure went south
1:39:37
but hey ho still getting paid by Viscount Rothermere it's 12.01 James O'Brien on LBC
1:39:42
Five minutes after 12 it's Friday and it's a heat wave on the way
1:39:47
or at least a very, very night. It's also a holiday weekend, a bank holiday weekend. Do you ever miss that
1:39:52
You don't, do you, Keith? You've got it tattooed on your eyelids
1:39:56
when you get an extra day. I completely forgot that it was a bank holiday and said about four o'clock yesterday
1:40:01
I suddenly realised I've got a three-day weekend coming up. I opened the last hour
1:40:07
by reading you a text from someone who was accusing me of bowing to outside influence
1:40:14
either within or without this building, and therefore not talking about the hideous behaviour of Itamar Ben-Gavir
1:40:21
and, of course, the broader Israeli regime, because I was either in the pocket of the Israeli regime
1:40:27
or I was the victim of Jews controlling the media. I said to you, it's an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory
1:40:34
But I am about to admit to you that I have been essentially lent on by a colleague
1:40:42
in the last five minutes. And therefore, I'm not going to conduct the phone-in that I wanted to conduct
1:40:50
Because she's made me feel silly. I wanted to ask you what your favourite bus route was
1:40:59
I did. I wanted to ask you what your favourite bus route was
1:41:05
But I have been mocked. I have been pilloried. I haven't quite been insulted
1:41:11
Not with words. but you can be insulted with looks, can't you
1:41:16
A look can be more withering than a word and if looks could kill
1:41:20
well, I think the emergency tape would be about to kick in because I'd be curtains
1:41:27
I have been, not for bad, but I have been gaslit, perhaps
1:41:35
into believing that what's your favourite bus route would not be a very good radio phone-in
1:41:41
I remain, well, anyway. Rachel Reeves is to promise free summer bus rides for children in England
1:41:49
And she's going to cut tariffs on some food imports, which I don't think we could have done if we were still in the European Union
1:41:55
So, you know, there's your plus, finally, lads. My career and cheap chocolate this summer
1:42:00
Cheap shoots for peasants, quite possibly. This is all as a response to the around conflict
1:42:07
It's not necessarily very grown-up politics. because it's a bit like the child in the supermarket going
1:42:14
please, please, please, can I have that? Please, can I have a Milky Way, Mummy? Please, no, no, you can't have a Milky Way
1:42:19
Please, Mummy, please, Mummy, please, Mummy, please, Mummy, please, Mummy, please, Mummy, please
1:42:23
OK, you can have a Milky Way, just shut up. It's a little bit like that, this mode of politics
1:42:28
The reason why things are going up in cost is because of the war in Iran. Taking tariffs off chocolate and giving us a free bus ride
1:42:35
is not going to open the Strait of Hormuz. and of course all of the money that is expended in pursuit of these policies
1:42:41
will have to be recouped at some point from the taxpayer, which is, spoiler alert, you anyway
1:42:46
But I still really like it. I don't know why. The sun is in the sky. Oh my, oh my
1:42:51
Congratulations, by the way, to Lily Allen for picking up a brilliant award at the Ivor Novellos last night
1:42:57
The sun is in the sky and we've got, many of us have got an extra day off on Monday
1:43:01
and now you've got free bus travel for children come the 1st of August
1:43:07
But I'm not allowed to ask what your favourite bus route is
1:43:13
I've been nubbled, as Neil puts it. I've been nubbled. I might smuggle it in a little later in the programme
1:43:20
and I'm certainly going to tell you what mine is. I also find myself very drawn to the policy she's set to announce on Thursday
1:43:30
that we'll see a VAT reduction on tourist attractions. My number one priority is protecting households from rising costs
1:43:39
This summer, this was yesterday, sorry, I want every family to be able to enjoy themselves
1:43:44
That's why we're launching the Great British Summer Savings Scheme. It's actually got quite an agreeable ring to it, that
1:43:50
the Great British Summer Savings Scheme. It's not bad, is it? It could be worse. The Great British Savings, I mean, the first thing you do as a journalist
1:43:57
is see whether or not they've accidentally turned it into a rude acronym
1:44:02
You know, I'm not giving you any examples of that because that would be quite rude, but GBSSSS
1:44:07
No, they're all right with that. The Great British Summer Savings Scheme. And we're helping kids with free bus travel throughout August
1:44:14
One of my nephews loves nothing more than getting on public transport during the summer holidays
1:44:19
with one of his mates and just seeing where it takes him. And that could be..
1:44:24
I mean, obviously, you've got to be careful and your parents need to know where you are, but I like the idea of free bus travel
1:44:31
And I love the idea of making it easier to visit many tourist attractions
1:44:36
because that is genuine help for families to be able to go out and enjoy themselves
1:44:41
Again, I don't think it's very grown-up politics, particularly on the motorists' front
1:44:47
If there is an international event that puts up the price of petrol and gas
1:44:52
if you American then that just life isn it It not something necessarily that the government should be trying to assuage by just taking money or giving us money now that they have to take back at a later date But then again I not a massive petrolhead
1:45:06
so maybe I'd disagree with that if I did spend my life driving around the place
1:45:10
So you're going to get free summer bus rides and you're going to get the easier access, cheaper access
1:45:16
to various tourist attractions, if I've understood it correctly. and I'm not allowed to ask you
1:45:23
what your favourite bus route is I am however or I'm not allowed to do that exclusively
1:45:32
I would not we decided we decided we decided that it would not make for a full hour of radio
1:45:39
what's your favourite bus route but I might ask the question anyway
1:45:48
alongside this one which I've never asked you before. And this is not, because I need to be a slightly
1:45:53
I need to be a little bit better than North Norfolk Digital. Not a lot
1:45:57
Not a lot better. But a little bit better than North Norfolk Digital
1:46:02
So this isn't just give me a ring and recommend a day out. This is a genuine question
1:46:07
and it will take you a moment to think about it. What is the best day out you've ever had with your family
1:46:14
A family day out. the best family day out you've ever had in the United Kingdom
1:46:20
All right? What a wonderful opportunity to phone into a radio station
1:46:24
for the first time in your life. 0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3. If it involves a bus, well, that would just be lovely
1:46:32
If it involves a bus, that would just be brilliant. But it doesn't have to involve a bus
1:46:36
I want to know the best family... I'm trying to think about what mine would be. I mean, some of them are going to be fairly obvious
1:46:43
And do you find that the dynamic is different when you're a child from when you're a parent
1:46:48
There are few things more pleasant as a parent than seeing your child really, really happy
1:46:53
But I never knew that when I was a child. I always thought that mum and dad were bored brainless
1:46:59
when they took us to Alton Towers. That was exciting. That was a big day out
1:47:04
But the queues, I wouldn't say it was the best day out we ever had as a family
1:47:08
And of course, you can answer from either generation. You can either answer it as a grown-up or answer it as a child
1:47:13
The very best day out you've ever had in the United Kingdom with your family
1:47:18
It's not, you can't just, and it can't be like a concert. It has to be something that's there all the time
1:47:23
It's the best day out you've ever had at a permanent tourist attraction in the United Kingdom
1:47:29
0345 6060 973 is the number that you need. Trying to think what my contenders would be
1:47:38
And the more surprising the better, you know. God, I nearly put Euro Disney on the list then
1:47:44
which would be an act of treachery, wouldn't it? Why do you hate British tourist attractions, O'Brien, you lefty
1:47:49
Look at him with his lefty face. Stone him! That's a niche reference to something that we covered on yesterday's show
1:47:56
I'm trying to think, but I think West Midland Safari Park, for me
1:48:01
You can have, you get, so if you go to Kidderminster, you can, in the same day, visit West Midland Safari Park
1:48:09
and go on the Seven Valley Steam Railway. Now, West Midlands of Fire Park, not only, as you would expect
1:48:15
has a lot of exotic animals in it. Did I ever tell you about the time
1:48:20
I almost became a sea lion trainer? Oh, I did. But it also has a theme park
1:48:25
It used to have a cobra. The cobra roller coaster was absolutely world-class
1:48:29
Do you know, I looked it up, or I think I told you about it, actually, and you looked it up
1:48:33
and it got, I think it's in China now, or something like that. Who knew that there was a market
1:48:37
for second-hand roller coasters? But, yeah, I think probably... But then I don't remember going as a family
1:48:45
I think Mum just took me and my sister once during the holidays. I don't know if my dad ever went to West Midland Safari Park
1:48:50
We definitely all went to Alton Towers, but it was always a bit... My friend Sam, he got a golden ticket
1:48:58
because his dad was the local MP, and he got a golden ticket for Alton Towers
1:49:02
So I always sort of wandered around there with a vague sense of disappointment
1:49:08
that I didn't have a golden ticket that meant you could go to the front of all the queues
1:49:12
That would have been nice. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Maybe you'll remind me
1:49:17
Maybe you'll remind me of something that I did as well. But what is the best ever family day out
1:49:25
you have had in the United Kingdom? Extra points if I've never heard of it. Double points if it involves a bus
1:49:33
03456060973. and also what's the best bus route in Britain James O'Brien on LBC
1:49:44
15 minutes after 12 is the time and I'm going first alright
1:49:49
damn the consequences no one tells me what to do no one puts baby in the corner
1:49:54
the best bus route in Britain is the 34 from Kingsland to Wales next to sea
1:50:00
you could stay on till Fakenham if you wanted to but don't, get off have a wander around Wells Next to Sea
1:50:05
and then get on the CH1 from Wells Next to Sea to Cromer
1:50:11
That is the best bus route in Britain or at least that is my opening bid
1:50:15
at 17 minutes after 12 today. And I am going to do a phone-in
1:50:19
on what the best bus route in Britain is but I'm also doing it alongside
1:50:23
a question about the best days out in the whole of the UK. Family, family day out
1:50:27
It's got to be the whole family. Michael's in Salisbury. Michael, what have you got? Hi, James. Hello
1:50:32
Big fan, London listener. Thank you. Tank Museum. Bovington Tank Museum? It's down near Poole Dorset. I went there
1:50:40
probably once about 12, whole family. My dad, my mum, my sister. My dad used to work in defence
1:50:46
engineering, so we're all into that sort of stuff. He likes history and he likes big
1:50:50
machines. It's absolutely fascinating. It's the biggest collection of armoured vehicles from around the world
1:50:56
Definitely anywhere in Britain. Possibly Europe. At the moment, they've got a load of squaddies
1:51:01
volunteering to show people around. and if you go on one of their battle days, you should get the tanks out and go around blowing stuff up
1:51:08
as a demonstration. Blimey. Really is quite impressive. I don't want to engage in any casual sexism here
1:51:13
but did your sister enjoy it as much as you did? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Okay, just checking
1:51:18
And have you been back? No, I'm actually thinking of going on Tuesday
1:51:22
I've been fixated on the idea for ages, so I haven't been there for 30-odd years
1:51:27
I've been trying to get a couple of mates together and possibly on Tuesday
1:51:31
for taking the day off for an extra long bank holiday. Oh, that's nice. See, there is a danger, you know
1:51:37
I mean, sometimes it's best not to revisit childhood memories. I don't know
1:51:41
I don't know. It's impressive stuff, basically. Well, I hope so. Let me know
1:51:46
I hope it lives up to your memories. I really do. But I mean, it rarely does
1:51:51
I mean, tanks are surprisingly small, for example. Now that you're a full-grown man
1:51:55
Yeah, definitely, yeah. Some of them are surprisingly small. But I like that. I'm going to write all these down, actually
1:51:59
The Bovington... Oh! You can get there on public transport from Pools
1:52:05
I think you can get a bus there. Yeah, that doesn't count. That's not... I mean, nice try, though
1:52:09
Nice try, but that's not... You don't get any points. You don't get any points for that. Thanks a lot
1:52:13
Well done, Keith. The Black Country Music. All mine are from the Midlands
1:52:18
You can take the boy out of Kidderminster. There's a brilliant thing. I forgot to tell you about it
1:52:23
There's a superb... I don even know the fella name but I should look it up and give him credit You know my favourite PR story is when they pretend that a product is about to be ended and then everyone writes about it and then they go oh all right it so popular we bringing it back
1:52:36
And by an amazing miracle, it suddenly sees its sales go up by quite a lot
1:52:40
during that particular window. I first spotted it when I was on the Daily Express, actually
1:52:44
and I think Heinz did it with sandwich spread. They announced that Heinz sandwich spread was going to be discontinued
1:52:50
And I don't think that we actually ran a campaign, but there were a few stories and some readers' letters
1:52:54
and it was on the telly and then Heinz announced, we're not, who knew sandwich spread was so delicious and so popular
1:53:00
We're not going to discontinue it after all. They did it with the Caramac recently
1:53:04
I've got an even better, this lad, because I presume he's done it himself. A bloke has written a book, right, set in Kidderminster
1:53:13
My hometown. A bloke, which I think is a first. I'm not sure anyone else has ever written a book set in Kidderminster
1:53:19
A bloke has written a book set in Kidderminster and I presume that they weren't exactly biting his arm off
1:53:25
with interview opportunities when he wanted to promote his book. So he has... I mean, this to me is..
1:53:30
All right, here's the question. What's he done to muster up interest
1:53:35
A bloke writes a book set in Kidderminster and he doesn't have a big PR team, I don't imagine
1:53:41
He's done it all himself. What could you do? I'll give you a slight clue. It involves the audio book
1:53:46
what has he done to generate interest in his novel set in Kidderminster
1:53:53
and so much so that it even got on the local news you can text me that one meanwhile
1:53:58
what's the best bus route in Britain and tourist attractions Barry's in Loughton, Barry what have you got
1:54:04
Hello James, just a story that connects buses and my best day out
1:54:09
Go on then I love it all there, hang on a minute I'm just going to have a little sip of tea
1:54:13
you crack on It was probably 1975, 1976. I was about eight or nine
1:54:21
Yes. And we never used to go on holiday at all, you know, a bit poor
1:54:26
So one afternoon in the summer holidays, my dad's packed up a packed lunch
1:54:30
Hang on, extra point for heartstrings there, Barry, carry on. Packed lunch, and he said, right, we're all off to France
1:54:40
So we lived in Walthamstow at the time. Oh, yeah. So we walked to the top of the road, jumped on the 69 bus
1:54:46
Extra points, well done. All the way to North Woolwich, all from Stoke to North Woolwich
1:54:51
Jumped on the Woolwich Ferry, got off, eating our packed lunch on the Woolwich Ferry
1:54:56
And when we got off in Woolwich, we thought we were in France. And me and my brother was absolutely delighted
1:55:02
We thought we'd gone abroad for the first time. And ever since then, well, not ever since, not now, we're in our 50s
1:55:09
But for a couple of years after that, every summer holiday, we begged my dad to take us on the 69 bus to North Woolwich
1:55:17
so we could go to France. And we did it, I think we did it two or three times after that
1:55:21
I love this, mate. You've almost brought tears to my eyes. I'm not even joking
1:55:26
That's such a lovely story. How did your dad, like, make it all French, as it were
1:55:33
Or did he not need to? He didn't need to because you got off a boat. We wouldn't have known a French man if he'd walked in the house
1:55:39
No. You know? But he didn't, like, he didn't sort of... He didn't do anything
1:55:44
He just told you you're in France. No, we had a packed lunch. We got off the Woolwich Ferry
1:55:48
That's just lovely. We walked around Woolwich. And he's also done it with our grandchildren as well
1:55:53
And they fell for it as well. They fell for it as well. It's not the right word. I don't want to say fell for it
1:55:58
My nephew, Gary, is still convinced he went to France. How old is he now
1:56:04
He's 35. Ah, you've already won. Everyone else could go home. And is it genuinely the 69 bus
1:56:13
Or did you just... It was the 69 bus. It runs from Chinkford to North Woolwich
1:56:19
And we used to get it at the Crooked Billet in Walthamstow
1:56:23
Packed lunch, everything. Clasper tea. This is the cutest story ever. That's just absolutely lovely
1:56:28
Oh, it was brilliant. It was brilliant. I'm not joking, James. It was the highlight of our summer holiday
1:56:34
So, unfortunately, I don't know if it's emulatable. I don't know if anyone else can take their family to Woolwich
1:56:42
and pretend that it's France, but it counts. I mean, it's permanently there
1:56:47
It's just that feat of imagination that your father pulled off that might be beyond most people listening
1:56:53
And the fact that he did it with the grandchildren as well was brilliant. Mate, that's just gorgeous. That is one of my favourite stories of all, ever, on the programme
1:56:59
That's utterly lovely. No, you take care. Seriously. How old were you when you realised
1:57:04
Oh, I don't know. Probably ten when we were talking about it at school. And someone said, you didn't go to France, Barry, you clump
1:57:11
Yes, you liar. Just got sensational. Alan's in Leeds. Alan, what have you got
1:57:18
Beat that. Hey, James. We used to go to the Renault World Series at Donington
1:57:23
It was free, completely free. Oh, was it really? Yeah, you just used to get in touch with the World Series by Renault page
1:57:30
ask for some tickets, the 24, and you'd have a free fun fair in the middle of Donington Park
1:57:35
you'd watch all the racing like Formula 1 cars, the Renault Formula 1 cars
1:57:39
the lower classes like the Clio Cup, Megane Cup, you had a Renault biplane doing stunts
1:57:45
you had between races you could have a bus going around the track taking people
1:57:49
on a tour of the racetrack. Well played. You could have you could take your own
1:57:55
food, the only thing you'd have to pay for was food from some of the food stalls if you didn't take your own food
1:57:59
free camping. I mean I hadn't even thought I hadn't even thought of adding
1:58:03
a free element to the conversation because it just doesn't exist anymore
1:58:08
Well, for some reason, the British round stopped doing it for free
1:58:12
but you could get tickets even for Europe. You could go to France or Belgium
1:58:17
One of my friends lived near the French-Belgium border and he said, come across, camp in the farm
1:58:23
and just nip across the border and watch the Renault series in Belgium
1:58:27
Oh, how amazing. Are you sure it was Belgium and not Woolwich? well I never actually got there
1:58:33
so they crossed the Humber Bridge and it's in France and how long ago was this
1:58:38
this was when my daughter's 24 now she'll be about 6 years old oh wow
1:58:42
so for the whole family as well I can almost feel the vinyl
1:58:47
on the back seats of the car as you tell this story it's a sticky vinyl isn't it
1:58:53
I mean you could even ask for more tickets if they said there were still tickets left
1:58:57
do you want some more tickets? yeah we'll have 4 more so they'll turn you another 4 and then everyone could come down
1:59:02
I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. This is a lovely hour. We should do this every year. Well played, Alan. Nice one
1:59:06
I mean, it's not there anymore, but it doesn't matter. I asked what the best one ever was
1:59:10
Or it's not free anymore. That idea of being free, that is pure 1980s, isn't it
1:59:16
Or doesn't feel very modern at all. 27 after 12 is the time
1:59:21
Quite a few suggestions coming in on the best bus route in Britain, but none of them even close to mine
1:59:26
although this fellow knows what he's talking about. As a lad raised in Fakenham, I have to concur
1:59:30
Although you should start in Hunstanton, known, of course, to the cognoscenti as Sunny Honey
1:59:35
It might make for a more scenic total journey. If you happen to be in the area at the time
1:59:39
you could hop off in Blakeney and enjoy the regatta, or even try your luck at the greasy pole
1:59:45
which is a thing in Blakeney. 1227. Nicola's in Port Albert. Nicola, what have you got
1:59:53
Hiya. So my... Please be the real sun centre. please be the real sun centre
1:59:58
go on what is it It's Colchester Zoo. Oh, well, I thought it would be the real Sun Centre
2:00:05
I'm sorry to disappoint you. That's okay. Tell me about Colchester Zoo. So it's one of the only family outings that I can remember
2:00:16
that holds a special place in my heart where my mum was walking around and enjoying it with us
2:00:21
Now, my mum has MS and unfortunately it's progressed to the stage
2:00:25
where she is bed-bound, she can't do anything for herself. So having that memory of her, my baby sister
2:00:33
me about 10, 11 years old, my aunt who sadly passed away a couple of years ago
2:00:39
and my uncle who and those two were very much surrogate parents
2:00:43
for us growing up our entire lives, my sister and me. So just having those memories of being there
2:00:50
the magic of seeing these animals at a zoo that wasn't close to home
2:00:56
This is lovely. It was lovely. I mean, zoos are, I know that zoos are a bit controversial, aren't they
2:01:02
But not when you're that age. It's just a lovely story. It is
2:01:06
It was the magic of childhood, being there with everyone who I really, really cared about at the time, laughing and joking
2:01:13
And when you're that age, all of the adults kind of play into the magic of childhood as well
2:01:18
So I remember all the spider monkeys taking pictures with my aunt, imitating them all
2:01:23
I remember going to see all the larger animals and being astounded at how tall giraffes really were
2:01:29
It was just really, really lovely. This is lovely, isn't it? This is just lovely
2:01:33
Did you ever go to the Real Sun Centre? Unfortunately, no. No. How old are you
2:01:38
I shouldn't even tell you where it was. Well, it was in real, wasn't it? Wombat. Of course it was in real
2:01:43
Oh! I thought you meant real as in, like, real or fake. No, real as in R-H-Y-L
2:01:48
That was one of my best days out, but it wasn't with my family. It was with my godfather. It was with my Uncle Martin that we went to the Real Sun Centre
2:01:54
so that doesn't count, unfortunately. Yeah. It's not there anymore, but it was magnificent
2:01:59
It was like a tropical island in the middle of Wales, except I bet it wasn't
2:02:04
Just as a child, it seemed extraordinary. If you'd only been to the municipal baths, you know, the ones with cubicles..
2:02:09
Nicola's too young for this, but the ones with cubicles up and down the side. Cholton had a really old-school Victorian bath when I lived there
2:02:16
That's the only swimming pool you'd ever been to. The one in Kidderminster, the public baths in Kidderminster
2:02:19
before they built the Wire Forest Glades, known to the locals as Nipple City
2:02:26
Before they built the Wire Forest Glades, the only swimming pool in Kidderminster
2:02:30
still had baths in it. So you could pay like 50p to have a bath
2:02:36
That's how old I am. So when I was about eight, you'd go swimming and there'd be a room there
2:02:40
I don't know if it was still used. They just hadn't got around. But you'd pay some money and have a bath
2:02:44
Like a bath bath, Keith. Like a wash bath. Like a rubber duck
2:02:48
I don't know why I'd bother Amelia Cox has the headlines James O'Brien on LBC
2:02:55
It's 12.33, you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC I'm not telling you what's going on on the programme at the moment
2:03:00
because if you've only just tuned in you probably won't believe me but we'll return to it shortly after Chris Chambers, LBC's correspondent in the North West
2:03:07
brings us up to date with Andy Burnham's launch event in Makerfield which we tried to take live but we were scuppered by technology
2:03:13
Chris, what happened? Afternoon James, Andy Burnham arrived here wearing his trademark white t-shirt and blue blazer
2:03:21
to cheers from a crowd which included Labour supporters and other North West Labour MPs
2:03:26
and he gave a passionate speech about how this is his home
2:03:30
how he lives just two miles down the road how his childhood memories centre around this part of the world
2:03:36
and then he spoke about how he feels a burning sense of injustice about how the Westminster system isn't working for people in this part of the world
2:03:44
He went on to talk about how he wants better housing, better education. He talked about the cost of living crisis, and in particular, the cost of using the trains
2:03:52
saying it would cost £364 to get an anytime train to London if people had to go to London at short notice
2:04:00
He also spoke about the care system, how it's broken, how his dad is in a care home and sees it for himself all the time
2:04:06
And he brought out the Liverpool Metro Mayor, Steve Rodham, and spoke about how deprivation in Liverpool and Manchester
2:04:11
has fallen faster than anywhere else in the country, and that shows real change and how they've done it working together
2:04:18
It was quite clear as well that if you're voting for him in this by-election, you're voting to change the Labour Party
2:04:24
and I spoke to him afterwards about this. There's a job to be done, and I haven't spent my time today
2:04:29
attacking other parties, but I've addressed that reason why they did vote for other parties
2:04:34
These are people, many of whom will have voted Labour all their lives, and we've left them, they haven't left us
2:04:42
and this is the point I'm trying to get over in this campaign a vote for Andy is a vote to change Labour
2:04:48
I'm just going to be blunt about it, we've not been good enough we need to be better, so I'm not going to come in the campaign
2:04:54
with the sort of usual, oh this party's that and the other one's the other
2:04:58
I'm not going to do that, I'm going to reconnect I've asked the team to knock on every door, listen to people
2:05:04
take on board what they're saying and then let's come back as the party that they once knew
2:05:10
a party solidly on the side of working-class people and communities. Andy Burnham denied this by-election was a stepping stone to get to number 10
2:05:19
saying it can't be a stepping stone if it's brought them back to where it all began
2:05:23
And let me just run you through some of the other candidates that are going to be standing alongside them in this by-election
2:05:27
Robert Kenyon is standing for Reform UK. Jake Austin announced today will stand for the Lib Dems
2:05:32
Michael Wynne Stanley for the Conservatives. Rebecca Shepard will stand for Restore Britain
2:05:37
And Alan Howland-Lord Hope will stand for the Monster Raving Loony Party. Great stuff. Thank you, Chris Chambers
2:05:43
That makes Keir Starmer's promise to head up there and campaign a little bit tricky
2:05:47
if Burnham's ticket is promising to change Labour and the face of current Labour is there
2:05:53
I have got an unhinged headline for you today. Do you want to hear that before we talk to Peter Gagan
2:05:58
I think we should, yeah? Keith, hit the button. Unhinged headline. It's been a while. It's been a while
2:06:05
I bet Peter Gagin's never written an article that appeared under an unhinged headline. But here's a doozy for you
2:06:10
I have spent decades studying Stalin's Russia. Wait for it. Wait for it
2:06:17
And Starmer's Britain is more similar than you'd think. That's, I don't know, as much as 20 million people dead under Joseph Stalin
2:06:26
And Starmer's Britain is more similar than you'd think. An estimated 1 million people similarly executed or died in custody for being political opponents
2:06:37
And Starmer's Britain is more similar than you'd think. You have man-made famines, I'm not making light of them, including one in Ukraine which killed about 5 million people
2:06:46
And Starmer's Britain is more similar than you'd think. That is by Giles Udy in today's Daily Mail and it is an all-time classic
2:06:56
Unhinged Headline Peter Gagan is here from the investigative news site Democracy for Sale with news on one of my favourite subjects and one of your increasingly long list of successful campaigns slaps
2:07:13
Yes indeed, James, slaps. What's happened? I'm sure listeners all know what slaps are, but essentially we're talking about slaps are kind of legal claims that are brought not to try and win a case
2:07:24
They're brought against journalists, but not just journalists, campaigners. People even writing online reviews or reporting publicly about their own sexual abuse that they've suffered
2:07:32
Basically, these are claims that don't try to win a case by trying to silence, intimidate and basically financially exhaust people
2:07:38
So the government, actually, this was originally a member of Boris Johnson. Boris Johnson, actually, back in 2022, after Putin's Trump transfer rolled into Ukraine, said we're going to end slaps, we're going to end lawfare
2:07:50
Keir Starmer said the same thing. He said his promise ended too. four years later, you'd love me to be able to tell you
2:07:56
that it's all ended, but actually it hasn't. We still have a big issue with slaps
2:08:00
And what I've been looking at is the kind of, the lobbying campaign, not for reform
2:08:04
which lots of journalists are part of, and I'll put my hands up, I am, but the lobbying campaign against reform
2:08:09
which so far has been pretty successful. This is reform with a small R
2:08:15
Sorry, yes, reform with a small R, yes. We should make that clear
2:08:19
So, I mean, what are we celebrating, so to speak? Well, so what's happened basically is we published an investigation last week
2:08:29
that found that a group called Society of Media Lawyers, which sounds very venerable, it's actually in a couple of years old
2:08:34
it's made up of lawyers from all lots of big top law firms who have represented everyone from Russian oligarchs to Jeffrey Epstein
2:08:40
They will say in their defence that they work for everybody and they've defended claimants as well as taking out claims
2:08:45
But basically we looked at how a big lobbying campaign that they'd run, which had kind of really helped to kind of make it harder and harder for anything to happen
2:08:53
David Lammy, the Justice Secretary, was asked about this on Tuesday and said he was very, basically expressed his concern about it
2:09:00
and said that the government is going to do something about slaps as soon as time allows
2:09:05
So the good news is that... They're looking at it. They're looking at it
2:09:09
It's down to you. I mean, it's not a coincidence that this follows your investigation that was published a week ago today, I think
2:09:15
No, we published the investigation and it was big detail. detailed piece of work, 5,000 words
2:09:21
and it really got into the guts. We use a lot of access to information
2:09:25
a lot of sources to look at this lobbying campaign by the lawyers. And very successful, I think, they have been
2:09:30
in just slowing down and stopping something happening. But by putting it into the public domain
2:09:35
Lammy's been forced to respond. So I think the job now is for this to happen. So we don't, the likes of you and me
2:09:40
don't have to spend all of our time fending off lawsuits rather than doing actual work
2:09:44
Perish the thought. Another reason why you should be following all the work
2:09:48
that Democracy for Sale do very, very closely. And I'll just stick that into your search engine
2:09:53
and you'll be led to the substat. Peter, thank you, mate. Great stuff. And I suppose congratulations
2:09:59
although we'll reserve the heartiest version of those until legislation's actually in place
2:10:04
or until the picture has actually changed. One of my favourite... He's gone now, so I can tell you
2:10:08
He's one of my favourite journalists, Peter. He just does such extraordinary work and he is motivated by principle and integrity
2:10:16
No fear or favour. just as likely to upend a Labour issue as he is a Tory issue
2:10:22
You just need more people like that. And you wouldn't be looking at stories today
2:10:25
about a brain drain of young British people as a way of masking the fact that the immigration figures
2:10:31
they've all spent 20 years begging for have finally been delivered. 12.40 is the time
2:10:36
A rather lighter note to today's programme. What's the best day out you've ever been on with your whole family
2:10:42
And what's your favourite bus route? Some great entries to the second question
2:10:47
Let's just have a quick look. The number 11, James. I don't know why I've done the accent, Brian
2:10:51
The Outer Circle in Birmingham. As a kid, we could get day tickets and go round and round and round all day
2:10:56
It was brilliant. Brian now lives in Wigan. So goodness knows what's happened to his accent
2:11:01
Joe says, for many of you, can we do this every Friday? It's absolutely wonderful. No, sorry
2:11:05
That's the whole point about days out and treats, isn't it? Is that they have to be rare and special
2:11:09
The best bus route, says Rona, is the number 53 from Plumstead to central London
2:11:17
and it goes along the wonderful old Kent Road. Once on an aeroplane, I sat next to a 53 bus driver
2:11:22
I turned to my friends across the aisle to tell them and introduce them, and they all applauded, because we all love the 53
2:11:27
It's a bit niche, that. As is this, Mike. Crikey, mate, give your head a wobble
2:11:31
The route, the 100 to 125 from Stourbridge via Kidderminster to Bridge North
2:11:36
That's not, I mean, it's not bad. If it still runs, it used to run once a week, that
2:11:41
It used to go past the bottom of the lane where I lived. but I wouldn't put it up in the all-time greatest
2:11:47
not personally, but I suppose, what do I know? The 272 Sheffield to Castleton
2:11:51
right through the Peak District that probably is very special actually sort of Buxton, Bakewell area
2:11:57
and then the 919 Inverness to Fort William via Loch Ness I was on that road the other day
2:12:02
that is actually beautiful I don't really count that as a bus route though I don't know why
2:12:06
probably because I'm just making all this up as I go along Killian's in Finchley
2:12:10
Killian, what would you like to say? Bemish Living Museum is incredible
2:12:15
Is that just Bemish the place? It's not linked to the drink? No, it's up in the northeast
2:12:20
It's in Stanley in County Durham, and it is a small northeastern living museum town
2:12:26
So it has, like, a mine, has a small, like, high street. It also has a bus, a tram, and a steam engine
2:12:33
So you've got all the locomotives ticked. How lovely. Is it anywhere near Kirkley's
2:12:39
I don't believe so, no. So it's near like Stanley Chester. No, I'm just looking for a link
2:12:43
because I'm about to do something that's linked to Kirkley's and it would have been... I think that's more Yorkshire probably, isn't it
2:12:48
I'm sorry, I can't help. Yeah, it's more north than north. And it's a family day out as well
2:12:53
It's a family day out. It's the sort of thing you can buy a ticket and it lasts a year and they do different seasonal things
2:12:57
When the summer they'll have like a little fun fair. But it's all set in like, you know
2:13:01
the late 1800s sort of thing. Yeah, the one in Dudley's like that, the Black Country Living Museum
2:13:06
I didn't realise there was more than one of them. I thought we invented it. but why are they so enjoyable
2:13:11
I mean, because... Well, I think for me, I mean, I was born in the 90s, so I never really understood the mining culture as much
2:13:17
Yeah. So just kind of being able to go down a small mine and see what it was like, see the pit villages
2:13:23
Oh, I did that in Cornwall once. I went down a tin mine. Oh, I had more days out than I realised
2:13:27
It is terrifying. Very damp as well. Yeah. Very damp. And so my family used to take me there all the time
2:13:34
It was one of those things that go every few years, you know. There's a farm there, you get to pet cows
2:13:38
and then when my dad passed a few years back, me and my sisters and all my nephews and nieces went as well
2:13:44
Oh, that's lovely, mate. I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm glad you've got a happy memory
2:13:49
that you can almost sort of revisit physically. That's lovely. It's a recurring theme a bit in this conversation, isn't it
2:13:54
It's not just about the place that you went to. It's about the people that you went to it with
2:13:59
Thank you Cillian Stay safe It 12 I going to squeeze in one more but don let me go home without telling you what been going on in Kirkley In fact quickly as well I left It like roast potatoes at the end of Sunday lunch
2:14:11
I've got too much good stuff to cram into the remaining minutes. So there is a bloke, right, called Adrian Hobart
2:14:18
and he's written a book set in Kidderminster. Me neither. But obviously, quite hard to get publicity
2:14:24
for a book that is set in Kidderminster, so he has let it be known
2:14:28
He's a former BBC journalist, so I bet old Adrian made him a couple of calls
2:14:32
And he's let it be known that he needs help for the audio book because he can't do the accent
2:14:37
That's just brilliant PR because, of course, BBC, Hereford and Worcester picked it up immediately
2:14:41
He says, I did a reading from the book at the launch in Worcester and everyone there told me that my accent was too black country
2:14:48
It's not... because I kid him, it's a slightly diluted black country accent
2:14:53
Oh, man. And there it is. And as a direct consequence of that brilliant piece of PR
2:14:57
I can tell you that 27 Church Street, The Gathering Storm by AJ Hobart is out now
2:15:02
Brilliant. That's the best bit of self-promotion I've seen in a very long time. And if I know about anything, I know about self-promotion
2:15:09
James O'Brien on LBC. It is 12.48, you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
2:15:16
The coastline are 8.40 from Leeds to Whitby. That gets a shout out
2:15:21
And quite a lot of love for Legoland as well. You can probably work out what we're talking about, but it's not just fun, fun, fun, you know
2:15:26
We've got to do the politics too. Do you remember being told that you could find out
2:15:30
what sort of national government reform would provide by watching how well they did in councils
2:15:35
I could not agree more. It's not often I agree with that outfit, but I think they're absolutely right
2:15:39
You've got to watch very closely what they're doing in councils to get an idea of what they might be like at the national level
2:15:45
And here is a little clip from Kirkley's council meeting on the 20th of May, featuring two of their newly elected councillors
2:15:51
And then at the end of the clip, you'll hear Councillor Tanisha Bramwell, who is one of the Kirkleys independents
2:15:57
But the two voices you'll hear first belong to newly elected reform councillors
2:16:01
Sarah Wood and Robert Butler. And trust me, this is very special
2:16:07
I don't understand the Constitution. I have not had sufficient time to read that as yet
2:16:14
I don't understand what standing orders are, what they're made up of, nor do I understand what an amendment is
2:16:20
There is a possibility that we might vote for something that we don't understand at the moment
2:16:25
And whereas ignorance is not a defence, risk should be mitigated. I genuinely don't understand all the standing orders
2:16:34
I know you may be specifically talking about one specific thing, but frankly, our ignorance, as new councillors
2:16:40
I do not believe this is in any way democratic because we are being manoeuvred with a game play
2:16:47
that we don't know the rules. Even if you were to slow down and describe it properly, you would be describing to us the course of action that Councillor Bolt and maybe others do wish to take
2:16:59
We don't understand the Constitution. We don't understand the standing orders. We understand that just because we don't understand it, that it may not be constitutional
2:17:10
but we are at a disadvantage and we do not necessarily know what we are voting for
2:17:16
and therefore this we consider not to be a democratic process. We are willing and able to take the time to understand those things
2:17:26
but it is unreasonable for a chamber not to allow 43 new councillors
2:17:33
to understand the rules of the game. If you wish to proceed, then we can't stop you
2:17:40
but do know that this will be seen by the Kirklees constituents and we will make sure
2:17:47
that it is understood by the Kirklees constituents that we were not able to engage democratically
2:17:55
I think it's absolutely unfair for any councillor that's been elected, newly elected
2:18:00
however many hours of the council right a month ago. When you are elected you have to prioritise educating yourself on how to be the best councillor
2:18:09
and representative for your area. That's on you. To call that, I'm sorry, I'm sorry
2:18:14
but to call that unconstitutional is absolutely incorrect, and it's not right
2:18:18
And we will also make sure that our residents are absolutely aware
2:18:22
of who has competence in this chamber. I mean, I'm quite... My mouth stopped working
2:18:32
I pay quite close attention to this stuff, and they keep coming
2:18:37
It's literally an argument. It's as if Twitter's in human form, I don't understand anything
2:18:41
so you should all be banned from doing any counselling. We've got to shut down the council
2:18:45
because me and my colleagues don't understand anything. And when she said out loud, even if you explained it really slowly
2:18:51
we still wouldn't understand it. So I used to have this catchphrase during Brexit, right
2:18:54
I'd say, I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you
2:18:59
That catchphrase just came to life in Kirk Lees. That catchphrase has now assumed human form
2:19:05
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Tanisha Bramwell, who you heard at the end, just dropping some very simple truths, will be joining Ben Kentish, who is standing in for Lewis Goodall on Sunday morning
2:19:16
More joy from Kurt. That's it. That's what happens when you elect Nigel Farage fans
2:19:21
They start complaining about the fact that they don't understand anything and therefore everybody else should be prevented from doing their elected duties
2:19:31
Holy moly. Matthew's in Barnsley. Matthew, what would you like to say
2:19:35
Yeah, so adding to the debate about... That's near you, isn't it, Kirkley
2:19:40
There's more Huddersfield way, is it? It is. It's more Huddersfield way. It's close, but in Barnsley
2:19:43
we're in control as well as Wakefield, so it's the full eternity of this area, apparently
2:19:48
Happy days. Go on. Happier memories, please. Happier memories, yeah. We had a long-serving Labour leader
2:19:53
and he did a lot for the borough. But anyway, yeah, so best family day out. Beamish again
2:19:58
Not necessarily because you've had a walkthrough of all the attractions, but I want to talk you through the bus journey
2:20:02
we took to get there, so bonus points. so we got picked up in Barnsley
2:20:07
Beamish is like County Durham so it's two a bit hours away we went through every little village
2:20:10
in West Yorkshire to pick up every other family that we could find and somewhere in Bradford we went up a hill
2:20:15
and my 70 something year old grandmother fell out of the toilet
2:20:18
on the coach and proceeded to roll down the aisle so that's always been
2:20:22
a lovely family memory bless her she didn't fall out of the coach
2:20:26
she just fell out of the toilet on the coach on the coach I don't think that's better or worse
2:20:30
well from her point of view it's probably worse isn't it Because at least if she'd fallen off the whole bus
2:20:35
no one would have seen her kecks. Oh, there were kecks. Kexes on the..
2:20:39
On everyone else on the coach, they were laughing that much as well
2:20:42
Yeah, did she see the funny side or was she mortified? I think on her deathbed she saw the funny side
2:20:49
That was two votes. Beamish is going to win now as a consequence of your grandmother's knickers
2:20:54
So it's coming with two votes, which is by definition the winner
2:20:58
because all the others are going to be not repetitions. Oh, I love that
2:21:02
12 is the time Um Firm Britain on full disclosure this week It weird I been in business for quite a long time I never met her I used to do the daytime TV programmes
2:21:14
Never did hers. Never did Fern Britain. Never did one with Fern Britain, but here we are. Also, I guess
2:21:20
she's mid-morning, wasn't she? So, I would have been on the radio, but even when back in my newspaper days
2:21:25
I do the breakfast shows, I never met her before. She's absolutely lovely. I mean, she really
2:21:29
is. Absolutely lovely. as you'd hope and expect from watching her on television
2:21:33
because I think that she is one of those people who is exactly like she seems on the telly
2:21:39
when you meet her in real life. It was a real pleasure to sit down with her and talk about everything, her whole career
2:21:43
There is an X-rated story I can't possibly share with you involving Frank Boff
2:21:47
that comes up in the course of this interview, but this is a slightly different celebrity anecdote
2:21:55
You would expect drama school, but you're in the background. Drama school is lovely
2:22:01
Yeah, Central you went to, I think. So that must have been quite a, what's the word that I'm looking for
2:22:06
Liberal, liberated. Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. I smoked well and, you know, tried smoking a bit of joint weed, whatever
2:22:14
I wasn't good at that. I was sick. But it was absolutely lovely
2:22:20
I adored it. It was a happy, very happy tears. I did enjoy school as well, actually, because school was kind of safe and predictable
2:22:28
where sometimes at home it wasn't. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So there's no particular ambition here. You just sort of have a chat with a careers teacher
2:22:39
Careers teacher says that this might be misremembered. Well, I suppose you want to be an actress or something
2:22:44
And you think, well, actually, that does look quite. So you fell into stage. Well, yes, she said, I expect you want to be an actress. And I thought, well, I've never shown any sign
2:22:52
But anyway, she gave me she said, well, you can be a stage manager. And she handed me a leaflet for Central. And I went home and said to my mom, I'm going to be a stage manager
2:22:59
and she said, she said, that's a terrible job. Could you, you know, you're going to open that night
2:23:05
and at four o'clock in the afternoon, someone says to you, go and get me an elephant. What would you do
2:23:09
And I said, I'd get the elephant. She went, okay, yeah, you're fine. Did your mum work when you were growing up
2:23:14
She taught. Of course she did, yes. She taught, yeah, she taught woodwork and drama
2:23:19
Who was at Central when you were there? There's nothing in the notes about this, but there must have been a few
2:23:23
Yes, there were. I think the outstanding one was a young lady, blonde, very short, very petite, wore a huge cloth cap and an enormous gentleman's overcoat
2:23:37
So she looked a bit like a, you know, a tramp in a way, smelling wonderfully of Nina Rishi, La Duton, which is a great perfume
2:23:46
And after her second year, she vanished and she went to Hollywood. And it turned out there was a part called Princess Leia for her
2:23:54
And so she was there. Debbie Reynolds' daughter. No way. I can't even remember
2:24:00
Carrie Fisher. Carrie Fisher. I never knew that. Yeah, she was lovely. I remember she did a year at Central
2:24:04
Two, yeah. Two years at Central. Good Lord. She was lovely. Well, you knocked that one out of the park
2:24:08
That was a good one, wasn't it? That's absolutely extraordinary. Yes, yes
2:24:13
I never knew that. Did you know that? Carrie Fisher was at drama school in London when she got cast as Princess Leia
2:24:19
so she dropped out and went. Well, I thought I knew my way around Star Wars trivia
2:24:22
So anyway, Fern Britain is absolutely lovely and what a voice. That's like treacle
2:24:27
That is why she began her career, doing continuity. Do you remember continuity, Shee
2:24:30
I do. Coming up next. Coming up next on Central Television, it's 321 with Dusty Binn
2:24:38
Anyway, hang on. We've got, is that it? Have I done everything I said I was going to do? I've done the Unhinged Headline, I've done the Kirkley's Council, I've done the Kidder
2:24:44
Minster Book, I've done that and I've done this. So we can squeeze in another one
2:24:48
Matt's in High Wycombe. Matt, what's it going to be? It's going to have to be Southend, James
2:24:53
Southend. Southend. Yeah, so about 1989, 1988, my nan used to take me all the time with my little sister
2:25:02
Francis Rossi, of status quo fame, his family, they own quite a famous brand of Rossi ice cream parlours
2:25:10
Of course, one of the most famous branches is in Southend. Oh, lovely. I didn't know that either
2:25:14
And so it's 1988, 1989. I'm seven, eight years old. My grandmother was about 60
2:25:18
We go in there, have, you know, what ice cream do you want, son? I said, I'll have this month
2:25:22
Thanks, man. Anyway, a guy at the counter, he's about 40, and he says, oh, you want an ice cream, son
2:25:29
I said, yeah, yeah, thanks. Anyway, he buys it for me. That's nice. I said, thank you very much. My nan said, oh, that's nice
2:25:34
Thank you for buying my grandson an ice cream. Anyway, she happened to have a camera with her, took a photo, and as it turned out, it was Francis Rossi
2:25:42
Which you only discovered when you got it developed and showed it to someone else. Exactly right
2:25:46
I like that. This is 20 years, you know. No, I like that. I think that's lovely
2:25:51
I don't know if that qualifies as a temptation for other people to visit Southend
2:25:55
Do you go there still much? I do. Because we're in the same league as Southend next season
2:26:01
So I'm thinking I might go to the... It's easier for me to get to Southend than it is to get to Kidderminster
2:26:05
So I'm going to go to the... I'm going to probably go to the match down there
2:26:11
Yeah. So that was... And I met him about 10 years later
2:26:14
in the Ruskin Arms in East London. It was a status quo. We were doing a pub tour. Did he remember
2:26:19
He did. I was about, you know, I'm an Ilford boy, so I used to go to the Ruskin Arms, which is
2:26:25
the same pub Iron Maiden used to play, and there was Stats Crowe, I think, played there
2:26:29
when maybe there was an Elstein out. And, yeah, I went up to him and said, do you remember buying me an ice cream when I was
2:26:33
seven, eight years old with my nan, and my little sister? And he said, he claimed he remembered
2:26:37
He might have just been. Yeah, well, maybe he did. It's a lovely memory for you either way, isn't it
2:26:42
I love that. It's the little things you remember, and again, the people rather than the place being one
2:26:46
of the driving. Why do you want to know that? I don't know what's put on the screen. Have we ever done this phone-in before
2:26:51
Of course we haven't. It's absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe we got away with it. What's your best day out ever
2:26:56
And your favourite bus route? Honestly. But anyway, have a lovely bang holiday weekend
2:27:00
Is that what you've just done? I wasn't listening. That's fantastic. It is, I know
2:27:05
I'm a maverick, mate. You are a maverick. There used to be... I'm sure you know Billy and Wally from Radio Mersey Saturday
2:27:11
Yes, of course. They used to do... I think it was an hour. What? Kind of a quiz
2:27:14
They used to do a bit like Mystery Hour. No, but it was called... What Have I Got
2:27:18
In My Hand. coming up on Tuesday when I come back from the back holiday
2:27:24
What have I got in my hand? If you missed any of today's show, the problem is we've never ever had an original idea in our lives
2:27:30
Everyone's got every good idea we've ever had. Someone else has already done. What have I got in my hand is a bit like
2:27:35
I used to do Beat the Sweet. I thought I was a genius, but Wally and Billy were beating me to it decades earlier
2:27:40
If you missed any of today's show, you can listen back on our free Global Player app or the LBC app
2:27:45
where you can stay up to date with all the latest news videos and opinions. There's a range of podcasts
2:27:49
including full disclosure with the lovely Fern, Britton and James O'Brien Daily
2:27:53
Best bits of this show every day. Download it now for free from your app store. Coming up at four on LBC, it's Tom Swarbrick
2:27:59
But now with... What have I got in my hand? It's time for Sheila Fogarty
2:28:03
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