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Shelagh Fogarty and Emily Maitlis react to Andy Burnham's plan: 'an absolutely gigantic, big, ideological shift for the whole country,' how simple is it? From moving No.10 to the North to solving the housing and young workers exodus, who's going to bring in to help? And what will happen of the Palace of Westminster if Parliament moves to Manchester? Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #shelaghfogarty #emilymaitlis #ukpolitics #westminster #andyburnham #keirstarmer #uknews #debate #housing #angelarayner #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
I hope people can begin to feel, hopefully you can
0:04
some of the excitement that comes with the change that I'm setting out today
0:09
It promises a new era of possibility for Britain. Possibility in places that haven't felt it for a very long time
0:17
This is the first speech of his premiership. And I think that's what's so weird about this
0:21
that we still have a Prime Minister and he still lives in Number 10 Downing Street
0:26
The real Number 10. The real Number 10 Downing Street. And yet here Andy Burnham is essentially laying out this absolutely gigantic, big, ideological shift for the whole country
0:40
And what he's essentially laying out, I mean, he used that word circuit breaker, which I'm sure you've picked up on
0:49
You have a circuit break when you admit to yourself that the current isn't passing through
0:54
in other words there has been no trickle down that the money hasn't got through that the energy
0:58
hasn't got through it's not working so you start and as it were if you tried to switch it off and
1:04
back on again right that's what he's doing he's saying let's let's that's how we that's how we
1:08
live she is are we going to switch it off and back on again which i think has has been what's
1:13
come about here and i mean you were talking about the feel of it there is an energy there is an
1:19
excitement to this i say this with a slight sort of consciousness of of the sort of hypocrisy of
1:26
journalists all flocking to the new you know that's that's how we're wired we go oh that sounds
1:31
interesting that sounds intriguing you know let's see this is all sounding very energetic what's he
1:36
going to do with what's he going to do i mean there is a sort of the air of the victorian to him
1:41
right which is you know the victorians are really good at just doing things they built things they
1:48
industrialized, they sold things, they sort of made it happen. There was the whole idea of the
1:54
black smoke above our cities was because things were being done. And I guess that that is a little
2:02
bit what this feels like. His talk about, you know, re-industrializing, regenerating, reforming
2:08
essential utilities. This is a man who sort of says, yeah, he's giving himself 10 years
2:13
I mean a big question there 10 years to sort of to rewire Britain I think though listening to it
2:21
I was just you're from Sheffield I'm from Liverpool you know um you know hearing him say
2:27
very plainly that you know people shouldn't have to leave where they're from if they don't want to
2:33
lots of people want to and that's fine too um they shouldn't have to leave where they're from because there's nothing for them there I think that will chime with an awful lot of young families
2:42
at the moment, actually, when their kids have just gone to uni, don quite know what they going to do with it not much around here am I going to lose them to Australia Even you know parents of doctors are all heading off to Australia that kind of thing that they that will chime I think with them but that whole sense of the north being left behind I mean it must you must feel as well it
3:00
been like a kind of a mantra over our heads the entire time I've been a journalist the entire
3:04
time I've been an adult really um it's it's always there and you know he he's saying I was listening
3:11
to it with interest he is saying I'm the man to crack that yeah well I hope he is because nobody
3:15
else has look i'm from sheffield you're from liverpool but i think that if he's smart he will
3:21
realize that he can't just be talking about the north versus the south in this speech you're
3:25
absolutely right but you know if you if you come from plymouth if you come from cornwall and you're
3:29
thinking oh blimey it was hard enough to get to london but you know but how do you get if you're
3:34
further away from manchester then actually having something that's a base in manchester is even more
3:39
complicated until you've sorted out the rest of your your broadband or your trains or your um
3:44
your roads or your infrastructure so i think he has to he has to start speaking not just about
3:49
north south manchester london but everywhere in between and and yet to your point he did start
3:53
mentioning those other places i think there's something really interesting about localism and
3:58
i was funny enough i was listening to new york mayor mamdani over the weekend make this point
4:03
which is that you have to start with things that people can see on their doorstep if you want to
4:08
get trust back into into the relationship between voters and government and i think it's the same
4:14
between journalists as well actually that you know people always say the dearth of local news was what
4:19
started people off on this weird sort of facebook track of disinformation if you can't see it if your
4:24
local reporters are disappearing if they're not talking about stuff that you know about with your
4:29
own eyes because you can go yeah that was happening at the town hall yeah i saw that protest there
4:32
then you don't really know what to believe and so you you go down the the sort of rabbit holes
4:37
I think the same is true of local government. If you reintroduce that connection, if people can actually see
4:43
it's like every town in France has a mayor, right? It doesn't mean that it always works beautifully
4:48
It doesn't mean that there aren't a few, you know, backends along the way. But he or she is known. The town hall is where he is
4:52
You know who to talk to. You know who to complain to. If something happens, you know where to go
4:56
And I think that is how you re-establish the link between trust and the electorate. And he talked as well, didn't he, about that sense that there was
5:03
what did he call it, an outsourced, unaccountable state. I mean, the outsourced bit there is a nod to utilities
5:13
I thought, when he was saying that. But there's not... I mean, it could be anything, Sheila
5:17
It could be Whitehall. It could be the EU. It could be the utilities companies
5:22
I think it's... I mean, how many times have you heard, and I'm sure you've had listeners on your show who say
5:28
I can't bear the fact that when I call my bank, there's no person I can talk to
5:33
There's nobody at the end of the phone. There's nobody. It a computer says no sort of society where you don know who to complain to You feel like you going round in circles you know you don know who to take your your sort of who to direct your letter to
5:48
And I suppose that, that all comes back to this whole question of, of the sort of loneliness
5:52
of society at the moment where everything is automated, everything is done without human
5:57
contact. At a distance. At a distance. And it's that lack of control, right? It's exactly what
6:02
arguably the Brexit vote to talk to which was not really about the EU it was not really even about
6:08
immigration it was about a sense that we we didn't have that control many people didn't have that
6:14
control over their own lives. This was their way of at least attempting to go back. He talked on the
6:18
individual policies as well um which is an area I want to talk about this hour he on education for
6:23
example he essentially called time on the idea that university is for everybody I mean that started
6:29
to happen culturally anyway, I think, the questioning of whether everybody should go to university
6:35
at 18. But that has to be handled carefully and not just leave those that don't outside
6:41
Look, I mean, weirdly, this is one of the most educated cabinets we've ever had
6:49
You know, not just graduates, but MAs, PhDs, you've got doctors in that
6:55
cabinet, you've got a lot of stuff. So, I don't think you want to enter a space where education per se is vilified where people don't sort of say yeah you should aspire
7:05
because all i'm going to say is absolutely right that university isn't going to be for everyone
7:10
but if you start down a track where you haven't got the aspiration of education then actually
7:17
there is a knock-on effect to every other exam that you're doing along the way how do you get
7:23
kids through a levels because you're saying to them well you might want to go to university how
7:27
do you get kids through o-levels through gcses because you're saying well you might want to a level of some sort you kind of need a target otherwise you know if you end up sort of saying
7:35
well you don't need to go to university and that's fine you that there will be kids who don't think
7:41
of themselves as being university who might be brilliant at university but they have to get
7:45
through their early targets i remember speaking to a teacher from my old school probably more than
7:51
10 years ago now and he said this business of getting all these girls to to university is is a
7:58
fool's game because not all of them can all of them want to but they'll be somehow made to get
8:02
in there one way or another and it won't necessarily help them thrive and i remember being a bit sad
8:07
about him hearing him say that because when i was at that very same school it was it wasn't like an
8:11
aggressive turbo charge you've got to go to you it wasn't like that but but there was a sense that
8:15
we'll we'll get you there we'll we'll make sure you're educated enough to make that choice right
8:20
I agree. I don't think you want to take aspiration out of our system
8:24
I don't hear, you know, the Chinese kind of going, oh, don't worry about university, you're fine
8:28
You know there has to be something that makes everyone feel that they can get to the best possible Well he talked about clear pathways didn he Alternative clear pathways Well let see them Okay exactly
8:40
And I think that we probably do need to sort of skill up. I mean, I think that's absolutely right
8:44
I mean, even the kids that are going to universities need those skills, frankly. You know, everyone needs those skills because that's the kind of new area we're in
8:50
And housing was a big, well, say, announcement, big aim, big ambition
8:55
Yeah. And it's going to be the central responsibility, I think, or one of the big responsibilities of the, what did he call it
9:00
the number 10 nerve centre in the north? Yeah, well, really interesting to see, you know, what he does with housing
9:04
You know, it may very well be that he thinks Angela Rayner
9:08
is the person to get back into housing, you know, sort of rehabilitated Rayner, who was in housing
9:13
who made great leaps and progress in that. She'd be great in the number 10 in the north, wouldn't she
9:18
Couldn't you see that? I mean, I could sort of see that that would sort of work quite well
9:22
I mean, you know, look at the immigration numbers at the moment and look at the emigration numbers at the moment
9:28
And by far the largest sort of new bulk of emigrants are young people, to your thoughts
9:35
who are saying, I can't really afford, I can't build a life here, I can't get a job
9:40
I can't afford a house. You know, going for a beer is too expensive
9:44
I could do that much more cheaply in any one of those countries overseas
9:47
If you can crack the housing thing, then you do send out a signal to your young
9:51
that you actually want them to stay and to put down roots here. Let's talk about, before you go, let's talk about the vibe
9:58
the Burnham vibe compared to the Star Wars vibe. We think the tie is dead, don't we
10:02
No, he'll be in that tie lots when he's Prime Minister, yeah. For the big moments, he'll be suited and booted, I reckon
10:10
Do you? Yeah. I think, yeah. So what is the vibe then
10:14
The vibe is, well, it's a sort of urgency, isn't it? I think it's an urgency
10:21
We've all been saying for a long time. I'm back and I'm in business kind of thing. Yeah, but also I want to get something done, right
10:27
And in a way, I think as the electorate, what we've all said
10:31
or the message that certainly the locals gave out, and the Scottish and Welsh, were nothing is getting done, right
10:38
Whether people used a kind of clever word like incrementalism, or whether they just said, I'm fed up because nothing's changing
10:44
what he has heard is, I'm going to get something done. We can then decide if it works or not, but something will be done
10:50
Something has to change. And that's quite a big bar to set yourself
10:54
you know, a total rewiring of the British state. And, I mean, what happens
10:59
I'm sort of, I know this is a very, very minor part of it, but it's symbolic
11:03
What happens to the Palace of Westminster, right? Does he just go, actually, everyone needs to move out
11:10
It's completely collapsing. And it literally is collapsing. It literally is collapsing, you know
11:15
And could go up in flames any minute because of the wiring. Does he just, does he say, right, okay
11:18
this is, you know, a symbol of what new politics looks like
11:24
Get out
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