Up next in 10
This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 7th of October 2026.
0:00 | Is inheritance tax morally wrong?
1:00:52 | The female David Brent
1:18:10 | Kemi Badenoch's Tory conference speech
2:25:45 | James O'Brien's analysis
2:30:20 | Trump's latest midterms antics
#jamesobrien #kemibadenoch #ukpolitics #tories #lbc
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0:00
Four minutes after ten is the time. You know that tightrope I talked to you about some mornings
0:08
about not knowing whether to ignore stuff because it's so patently ridiculous and worrying about
0:12
giving it oxygen. And it is almost always online. And then it migrates from online to offline. And
0:18
you realise that you probably should have talked about it sooner. I think the best example of that
0:22
for me is that Andrew Tate character and the appalling influence that he was exerting over
0:29
young men in this country. I beg your pardon, of course, if you're a Nigel Farage fan, you think
0:33
he was a very important voice for young men. But anybody who has a problem with
0:37
misogyny and alleged rape, I suppose we have to go for first
0:43
would find him rightly repellent. And yet I just felt, here is an online
0:48
agitator begging for attention, let's not give him any. It was a mistake. I don't know
0:53
when it became a mistake. Obviously, it's not a mistake. Anyway, Anyway, I mention that only because a passing mention in the introduction a moment ago to the situations in France where 250,000 pupils, teachers and parents are demonstrating against the state of their high schools
1:12
I'll say that again, 250,000 pupils, teachers and parents. Rob and Alan have been in touch this morning from the outer reaches of reality to tell me that
1:23
So Alan writes, Gaelic, ha ha, it's Africans doing it, you lefty lunatic
1:28
And Rob writes, James, the riots in France are mainly instigated by Muslim migrants
1:33
So that's obviously what racist Twitter or racist Facebook is promoting. And there are two people who are, I mean, not sufficiently lost to reality that they still tune into the early moments of this program
1:47
but there are two people believing, not the evidence of their own eyes and ears
1:51
where the Interior Ministry in France is describing 200,000 people taking part in mainly peaceful marches in Marseille, in Nantes, in Lyon yesterday
2:02
56,000 people in Paris. Organisers putting the total even higher at 450,000
2:08
But if you're on racist Facebook and your name is Alan or Rob this morning
2:13
then it's all about Muslims or Africans or presumably both. I just mention that so that you know what's going on
2:19
because there might be someone in your life who is as daft and dangerous
2:25
as dangerously daft as this but that's not what we're going to talk about first
2:31
what we're going to talk about first is I'm going to say two words
2:36
I want you to, if you can, just take a moment turn down the other noises in your ears at the moment
2:43
focus on me, don't worry, I'm not going to try and hypnotise you or anything weird like that. I'm going to say two words
2:48
and I just want you to take a moment to register properly
2:52
the emotional impact of these words on you, because I think it's a profoundly emotional issue
3:01
and that is the element of it that I want to explore today
3:08
Here come the two words, and you're just going to just register, just reflect briefly on what these words do to you
3:15
And those words are inheritance tax. Inheritance tax. I haven't really given it much thought over the years because we are highly unlikely to be called upon to pay any when all of our parents have passed
3:36
Or if we are, it will be a percentage of a relatively small amount
3:41
But as I get older and I reflect upon the world that my daughters are growing up in and I see a world where financial security and even financial success are going to be rather harder to achieve than they were when I was their age, when I was young
3:59
I feel on my shoulder a growing sense of care and concern and desire to leave them better set up when I shuffle off this mortal coil than they would be if they were to rely, as me and their mum have done, entirely on our own efforts to make our financial nest, as it were
4:22
I'm finding a slight shift in my feelings. But the problem here, and just chew, if you will, on that for a moment, your emotional reaction to the story
4:37
Part of the reason for it is that I will be on the hook for this. And if we stay in the house that we're in or we don't make very – I don't even know what sort of fancy arrangements you make to duck out of inheritance tax
4:53
I suspect the richer you are, the more effort you will make to do it
4:59
I don't think that the new Duke of Westminster paid any diddy after inheriting one of the biggest fortunes in the country from his late father
5:06
And it is less than, according to the official figures, it's less than 5% of the population
5:14
And yet I'm fairly confident that the emotional reaction you had was real and significant
5:28
I like this as a conversation for us to have because I don't know whether it's self-interest
5:37
that is driving my interest in the issue or whether it's a sort of natural justice
5:43
I was also thinking then that, because, I mean, look at it
5:47
That is 4.72% of the population or 4.72% of estates, as in what is left, will be subject to inheritance tax
5:58
Generally, if two people are still together when one of them dies, then you've got a clearance of a million pounds
6:06
So it's going to be over a million pounds. Any figure over that. So you get a million tax free
6:11
any figure over that you will pay inheritance tax on it I think at 40 percent so 40 percent on
6:18
everything over a million pounds if there are two parents or two partners leaving to their own
6:25
children and you you kind of have a sense or I have a sense that the
6:32
the figure has very little bearing on the feelings. Because, you know, if my children are in that category
6:46
and at the moment they are set to be, my estate, our estate, my wife and I will be leaving enough
6:52
to be eligible, some of it. I mean, I think most of it will go back to the mortgagee, won't it
6:57
But the mortgagor. But it's a tiny number. And that makes them among the luckiest people in the country, right
7:07
Doesn't it? And it is luck. I find, as you know, I find few things more repellent
7:15
than people justifying their wealth on the grounds that they work harder
7:19
than people who are not wealthy. And it's so entirely at odds with everything we know
7:23
whether you counting the actual amount of hours that are put in or whether you putting in some sort of metric to measure the effort The old adage would be someone going down a coal mine You really telling me that someone earning 10 times more than a coal miner is somehow working harder or someone working
7:40
in, you know, agriculture or someone putting in a proper physical shift. Using your brain can be
7:47
tiring. I should know. But the idea that it is a reflection of how hard you've worked entails
7:53
whether you mean it or not, I'm afraid it entails a message being sent to people who aren't as
8:00
wealthy as you, that they have somehow worked less hard. So I prefer to look in part at luck
8:06
You are lucky. These people are lucky. These children are lucky. I would be lucky if that
8:13
figure was including me at the moment. So why am I feeling weird about it today
8:21
The reason we're talking about it is that Kemi Bader not is poised to announce a cut to inheritance tax
8:27
I don't know whether she's going to raise the threshold or whether she's going to lower the percentage or whether she's going to forget, actually
8:35
or claim, as she did yesterday in her conversation with Nick Ferrari, that it's not her job to know the meaning, the detail or the functionality of policies that she is announcing
8:46
That was an extraordinary moment. But she is expected to signal an intention to cut inheritance tax in a conference speech that we will take later
8:54
And the Daily Telegraph writes it up as a policy aimed at middle class strivers
9:01
But it's 4.72% of taxable estates. So it's not middle class striped
9:08
Except that, I mean, if you live in the southeast, and certainly if you live in zones one or two
9:14
Then pretty much any property, certainly any house as opposed to flat, pretty much any property is going to be over a million pounds or certainly a huge number of them are
9:29
So the you see, Matthew makes a brilliant point. I've just got an inheritance tax bill for just over fifty five thousand pounds
9:35
The last thing I feel is lucky. Accept, mate, that that means you've cleared a million on your parents' estate and 55, whatever 55,000 pounds is 40% of, you've cleared the 60% of that figure as well
9:55
So you are lucky. And yet I'm not going to be an idiot about this. If I was in the position that you're in now, I'd be looking at that £55,000 and I'd be spending it in my imagination, wouldn't I
10:12
That's the thing about money. And, of course, if you are as rich as Croesus
10:16
then it appears when you look at people like Elon Musk and others that it's never enough
10:20
But for those of us who've got enough, we can very easily think of things that we could do and buy and have
10:27
if we didn't have to pay that £55,000. So I like the phrase morally wrong
10:36
Kemi Bader-Knot has used it to describe death duties or inheritance tax
10:41
she's called them morally wrong I want to know I think in the first instance whether or not you agree
10:49
that's it that's the question is inheritance tax morally wrong I also and I go in cycles I don't know whether you've noticed this
11:00
I go in cycles sometimes of finding your thoughts more interesting than your experiences
11:05
And then a sort of pendulum swings back and I find your experiences more interesting than your thoughts
11:10
I used to sort of hit the drum that experiences were more interesting than opinions
11:16
I don't really believe that anymore. I think it's ridiculous for me not to be interested in your thinking
11:22
It's about how much thinking you do. Obviously, I think that historically, radiophonians lend themselves to people who've done no thinking at all
11:29
but have very strong opinions. we tend not to get those callers anymore which is both a good and a bad thing i mean obviously it
11:38
makes my shift more enjoyable but it makes the um it makes the men and women on the internet side of
11:44
things it makes their job a little harder because they go immediately viral when someone comes on
11:48
and waves an enormous flag saying i've got very strong opinions but i understand nothing i voted
11:53
for brexit i love nigel farage and i think donald trump is a stand-up guy for example but on this
11:59
When you talk about morality, you talk about morality. So Dave's already responded to Matthew sarcastically by saying, I think my heart just broke for your poor contributor having to pay inheritance tax
12:12
And yet, at risk of turning into a fence sitter, or indeed at risk of having my own moral compass corrupted by the growing realization that my children will probably be on the hook for quite a lot of money at the end of my life or at the end of their mum's life, and I would much rather they had it
12:34
I worry about their futures in ways that I didn't expect to when they were born
12:39
The world has changed, whether it's AI, whether it's social media, all of the things that we talk about all the time, making life harder for young people
12:48
The sense I feel, the paternalistic, the parental urge I feel to feather their nests is much greater than I ever expected it to be
12:57
But that's selfish. that's me going against what many would describe as as the morality of taking from the people who
13:09
have the most and it's a tiny tiny percentage so i want your thoughts 03456060973 is the number
13:18
that you need and the second thing i want to know about is is what it felt like to pay it
13:25
See, I was toying with the idea of doing one of those phone-ins where we really limit who can contribute
13:34
And I wanted to conduct a phone-in. I still might do this, consisting entirely of people who are never, ever, ever going to have to pay it
13:42
which is, I'd say, about 90% of potential heirs to an estate
13:47
Because that 4.72% could go up or down, couldn't it, between now and the tragic moment coming
13:53
so people who are never ever going to have to pay it and their opinions on it
13:57
because if you are likely to pay it you're probably going to skew towards being opposed to it
14:02
I'm not currently by the way opposed to it I'm just thinking about it
14:06
and the phrase that I want you to think about is morally wrong
14:11
is it morally wrong because I think it might be morally almost perfect
14:16
53% of the population are currently taking more out of the Treasury than they're putting in
14:24
That's adults, by the way. It doesn't include children, although the amount that you've taken out
14:28
will include your childhood, your state education, for example, your access to the NHS
14:33
53% take out more than they put in. Just under 5% of deaths result in an inheritance tax charge
14:42
Is that morally wrong or is that actually morally perfect? If it's morally perfect, why does it feel so, what word would you put there
14:54
Unfair It feels unfair to people who are never going to have to pay it And that what perhaps explains some of my interest on this issue Ninety minutes after ten is the time
15:06
And the other element of this is how you felt when you paid it
15:10
So Matthew currently feels desperately unlucky, and Dave is already laughing at him
15:15
And I can see why. What have you just done? I've just inherited one million pounds tax-free
15:20
and I've had to pay 40% tax on the amount above that. It's a crying shame
15:26
It's a tragedy. It's so unfair. I mean, if you'd had to pay £550,000
15:31
then you'd be looking at a £2 million estate or thereabouts, of which you're losing half of the second million
15:39
40% of the second million. But I'm not sure this is a conversation about numbers
15:45
I think it's a conversation about feelings and morals. And what are morals if they're not feelings
15:51
what is morality if it is not essentially a framework originally for many people many
16:00
civilizations a spiritual framework of behavior but in a secular world it is a sort of utilitarian
16:06
philosophy which decides what is best for a society for a population and the five percent
16:14
of the population eligible to pay tax on what they are being gifted by their forebears
16:21
seems to me to be at this point the opposite of morally wrong
16:27
And also, I think you can make a case for the unfairness of it
16:32
by giving me the numbers. You know, the way in which the mansion tax
16:36
when we did the mansion tax once, every call we got was from people in Islington
16:40
who'd bought their homes in the 1980s or the 1990s. I'm not even exaggerating
16:44
I think the whole board, I mean, it partly speaks to my audience, doesn't it
16:48
But the whole board filled up with people who bought houses for relatively small sums of money, who were not high earners, but who had
16:55
watched the value of their property go up exponentially, I mean, literally adding zeros
16:59
to it as the years passed to the point where when they bring in a mansion tax, they're going to have
17:04
to find money that they haven't got. And I know they can go back to the bank and I know they can
17:07
remortgage and I know all of those things. But inheritance tax is going to be similar as well
17:12
isn't it? You might live a relatively modest life, but the home you bought 30 years ago has ended up
17:18
been worth a fortune. Is it morally wrong to take a chunk of that cash from your children
17:25
Phone lines are open. You know the number. It's 1021. James O'Brien on LBC
17:30
As things stand, I'm going to take Kemi Badenoch's speech live from Birmingham for two reasons
17:36
Number one, I took Andy Burnham, so it feels fair. And number two, I find her absolutely
17:42
fascinating. As you know, I just I I've written a column for the I newspaper today. And I don't
17:48
I think I've done this before. I might read you the first line of it, just to give you a little
17:52
explanation of why I'm thinking of taking that speech, or currently intending to take that speech
17:58
live, because it reads sort of almost comically, but I promise you, and if you listen to the
18:03
programme on a regular basis, you'll know it's true. I wrote, this may be more suited to a
18:07
confessional than a newspaper column, but I have a fascination with Kemi Bader not that is becoming
18:12
faintly absurd. I can't quite believe the amount of time I spend responding to her every utterance
18:19
and intervention by wondering whether I have, in fact, gone mad. Because, as with yesterday on
18:26
Nick's show, she's absolutely awful. She's just rubbish at everything. She's extraordinarily
18:32
rubbish. But her self-belief and her conviction that she's fantastic seems to be contagious
18:39
I think she's the most interesting politician of the last 10 years
18:44
I mean, as a psychological study, because everything she does is awful
18:49
She says, I never make gaps. And then she says things like, oh, I think you'll find that Northern Ireland voted to leave the European Union
18:56
She says she never has to clarify because she thinks so deeply about everything she says
19:00
And then she has to say, when I said that maternity pay was excessive in an interview
19:04
I didn't actually mean that maternity pay was excessive. If that's not a clarification, then I don't know what is
19:10
She's the woman who became working class when she walked into McDonald's for her first shift as a schoolgirl employee
19:17
She's magnificently rubbish. And yet she behaves as if she is... Well, a phrase I like is somehow the cross between Boudicca and Margaret Thatcher
19:30
So I want to take the speech live, sitting here, thinking to myself, is she mad or am I
19:36
I appreciate you may not enjoy that as much as I do, so sit still
19:40
Also, it means, as Harge points out, it means you can put your feet up and drink green tea from your massive mug
19:45
Kevin's in Newcastle on the question of morally wrong. What do you reckon, Kevin? Good morning
19:51
I don't think it's morally wrong. Recently had to pay an inheritance tax
19:58
and capital gains tax on my mum's house, which we sold this year
20:03
and, you know, I got a windfall. and you know all six of us got a windfall and the tax we don't actually pay it the solicitor
20:11
who's handling the estate paid the tax you don't actually see the the money leave your account but
20:16
it was it was a sizable amount um but i'm still better off than i was before it and and you know
20:24
mum worked hard and my dad worked hard they were self-employed to buy and build the house but you
20:30
The flip side of that is my dad worked all the hours under the sun, and what good did he do him, ultimately
20:36
Do all your siblings feel the same? Not all of them, no
20:40
I've got a right-wing brother who still thinks Brexit's a great idea, thinks he shouldn't be paying any inheritance tax
20:47
But the ones are strange, but the rest of us are like, well, we've now paid off our mortgages because of mum
20:55
I think this is possibly the point that's missed by people who are never going to be on the hook for it, but who feel a sense of natural unfairness. I think we miss the point that simply by dint of being eligible to pay it, you have already trousered a significant sum. Well, a significant sum by most of our standards
21:20
Yeah, yeah, a significant sum. You know, you give it all back to get mum back, but it is, you know, she's set us all up now, really. We've had to pay tax on it
21:33
It's, you know, it's a lot of people argue that it's the house is bought after earning money and paying tax
21:40
But it's no different from going to the shops and buying something and paying VAT, putting a fuel in a car, paying VAT
21:47
It's just it's one of those things where you're getting the money
21:53
It's no cost to myself. Effectively, it's taken out at that source
21:57
Why do you think it is such a guy? Because I did that deliberately at the top of the show
22:02
And I said, just roll it around your mouth, that phrase. And I wonder whether people who are never going to pay it are actually going to have a more visceral reaction to it in the context of fairness and morality than people who do
22:15
I can't see it being a vote winner. Because I can't see anyone who's never going to have to pay it going, well, thank goodness for that
22:21
People like Kevin are going to be even more better off than they are now compared to me who hasn got the proverbial pot to pee in I definitely voting Tory now to make Kevin richer yeah i think the trouble is it it in the name it the tax yeah yeah it we all pay tax i pay tax on
22:38
you pay tax on everything you do you pay tax to breathe but it's by calling it an inheritance tax
22:43
people make the assumption that i'm gonna have to pay the inheritance tax it's a bit like the
22:47
you les you know it was classed as a tax everybody thought they'd have to pay it and the reality is
22:52
very few people do. And unfortunately, you don't find out that you don't pay it until it's too late
22:58
It's a wonderful right wing weapon to make people who are not being persecuted by a levy or a tax
23:04
think that they are being persecuted by a levy or a tax, while the people who are trying to avoid
23:09
their patriotic responsibilities to funding a country in which they are among the wealthiest
23:14
are trying to hang on to as much as their cash as possible. You're a good man. Thank you. I should
23:19
have added that's Newcastle in Northern Ireland not in the North East
23:22
Newcastle County Dane from England originally but fair play, where was your mum's house
23:29
if you don't mind me asking it's a country house in Devon in Tiverton in Devon
23:34
oh blimey it was nice and unfortunately it should have sold for more
23:40
it didn't it's a tough time to be selling houses like that was it a business as well or was it just a family home
23:47
just the family it was a family home um it was it dad built it um built it on farmland
23:53
oh beautiful i know that part of the world it's a lovely part of the world and there it is i mean
23:57
you are one man and and you are describing feelings actually not not um not economics
24:03
that your feelings about the economics of it and that's that's just personality as you say you've
24:08
got a sibling exactly the same scenario exactly the same dna and a completely different position
24:14
on this. That's why I find it so interesting. I feel lucky, says
24:18
Kevin. I feel cheated, says his brother, after going through exactly the same process. It's half past
24:24
ten. The number you need is 0345 6060 973. If you enjoy detailed
24:30
introductions, the best callers in detailed and thoughtful introductions, the best callers, detailed
24:36
thoughtful, and sometimes lengthy introductions, the best callers in the business and deep dives with LBC's standout
24:42
talent like Simon Marks who will extend his streak on the show later
24:46
today after Kemi Baden-Ock's speech then good news, you can listen back to it
24:50
all now, ad-free on LBC Catch-Up Plus. Our entire output and our new subscription service
24:56
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25:02
18 or over to subscribe and you can find it right now on our Global Player app, on
25:06
the official LBC app or at LBC Catch-Up Plus dot com. James O'Brien on LBC
25:14
I'll run you through exactly what the figures are here and how it works. Because if your parents have split up, then it's different
25:21
But if they are together when the first one passes away, then they get a sort of half a million pounds each
25:26
So the estate passes first to the surviving partner and then to the children
25:30
And if you're over a million pounds, then 40% of the excess will be eligible to inheritance tax
25:37
And I presume capital gains tax kicks in when they're passing on to you other other things as well, other properties which are not part of the estate
25:47
Becky in Brackley speaks for quite a few of my correspondents this morning when she says I paid three hundred and twenty five thousand pounds inheritance tax and capital gains
25:56
And at the time, James, it really hurt. But as time has gone on, I've realized how grateful I am to have had to pay it off
26:04
Is it morally wrong? I've also had a couple of messages from other countries. Amanda, for example, who lives in Spain, telling me that everybody there pays one percent. I can't triple check this stuff in real time. But, you know, that that is perhaps a more moral measure. Or is it to take one percent of somebody who's inheriting very little instead of taking 40 percent of somebody who is going to be left with
26:28
and I thought that our first caller made this point brilliantly, a heck of a lot
26:33
DW is in Peckham. What would you like to say, DW? Very, very fantastic chat you're having, James
26:42
My main point is really to do with the numbers. I'm a 65-year-old man now, single, divorced, 20 years
26:50
When I was 28, I took out a little life insurance thing
26:56
knowing that I would have to pay inheritance tax eventually. And I thought, OK, 200 grand insurance, that will pay the tax
27:02
What they need to rename this whole thing is the double death and pension tax
27:08
It's not an inheritance. That might put people off it. Well, I've got to tell you, it should
27:14
And it should make them angry because the reality of the numbers
27:18
is the government talking about 5% of people paying it is a joke
27:21
It's not the government that do that. It's the revenue. The revenue
27:26
OK, it's a joke now because next April your pensions are taxed at 40 percent
27:33
And if you were sensible when you were 28 and you put a couple hundred queer away a month in a pension to subsidize your state pension when you get to 65
27:42
you'd have a couple hundred grand, 300 grand in a pension, which is now going to automatically pay 150 grand to the government
27:51
Now that I'm single, nobody buys a house or a flat thinking they're going to lose money on it
27:58
They want it to grow. They want it to be in the nice place. They want to pay their equivalent of council tax
28:05
where all the expensive areas pay four grand a month in council tax for the average house
28:10
So I just need to be clear. This is not a phone call about inheritance tax
28:16
It is about inheritance tax. So I don't know about the pensions element
28:20
You're going to have to forgive me. So I appreciate, I know what inheritance tax is
28:24
but you've got a pension pot. And in April, they come for that
28:29
even though you're still alive, do they? In a way that they haven't done previous. No, not when I'm still alive, when I die
28:34
Oh, okay. So I can't pass it on. Right. I saved into it. And is there a threshold
28:40
No, not at all. And what's the percentage they come for? 40
28:44
So they come for 40% of your pension pot. Yeah, it's included in the inheritance tax
28:49
So there is a threshold? Well, yes, but your house and your assets and whatever..
28:55
So they're just adding it. I mentioned that before you came on
28:59
I did understand that. And you feel this is unfair because it's sort of retrospective engineering
29:05
Again, it's like everybody argues about adjusting the pensions. It's a social contract we had since we were teenagers
29:12
When you took out that pension, you thought you were going to get X, and in fact now you're going to get X minus 40%
29:18
Or you're going to be able to pass on X minus 40%
29:22
That's the most important because... Yeah, I agree with you. That does seem unfair
29:27
That does seem unfair. Like the last caller that had six siblings
29:32
You know, he said he had a reasonable bill, whatever, 55 grand
29:36
You know, that's fine. That's great. I have no problem paying my due
29:41
except that the threshold has stayed frozen for almost a generation since 1988
29:49
yeah well the rate the rate was fixed at 40 i don't want this to turn into a sort of radio
29:54
four program about personal finance um but but i mean there are two things the reality
30:00
Yes, James. Go on. That instead of paying an estimated $250,000, my children will now have to pay $750,000
30:10
And they'll get to keep? Now about $800,000. That's the point where you're going to lose some of the room
30:20
Except that it's my decisions by my correct investments in property, my correct investments in stocks and shares
30:28
my correct investments in growing a pension. There's not going to be many people listening to this
30:32
who are going to be feeling that your children are anything less than lucky
30:39
They are very lucky, but because of my efforts. Yeah, I mean, now you're in danger of sounding like
30:46
one of those people who says that you've worked damn hard as opposed to you've been very lucky with your investments
30:52
Oh, I have been very, very lucky. I don't think we're on a different side of the fence
30:56
I just don't think that the pension element changes the conversation as completely as you think it does
31:02
Except for that, do you pay tax? Your pension contributions are tax-free, aren't they
31:08
You don't pay tax on your pension when you make the contributions. You say they're tax-free
31:14
If it's a private pension, you've already paid tax on the income. But there's no tax on the..
31:19
You get tax relief when you're paying into your private pension. Correct, but that's a reason to pay into it
31:24
Yeah, well, now perhaps not. And pensions don't just stop when you die
31:32
Of course they do. So the money that your children are inheriting is from your pension pot
31:39
Correct. Which you took out. From what's left of the house. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what I'll do
31:44
I'm going to invite people to decide whether or not they feel sorry for you or not
31:48
Sure. Or your children. But I feel sorry for you. I don't feel sorry for your children
31:53
Does that make sense? yeah but the moral argument is that in april the government have moved the goalposts yeah i get that
31:59
and i may need a little bit more insight on that but i can see how that because that's a bit like
32:03
if you're the average worker earning 30 grand yeah and you by the time you are 65 or whatever
32:09
you've only got 100 grand pension if your property is using up your your allowance
32:14
you're only earning 30 grand you're gonna pay 40 you're gonna pay 40 grand to the government yeah
32:20
i understand i mean the numbers are going to be tricky on this and most people are going to struggle to feel sorry for someone who's inheriting 800,000 pounds but you feel that you've been robbed
32:29
of one of your sort of parental prerogatives or one of your parental pleasures and I can see that
32:35
oddly it's funny isn't it if you are a parent then you are by definition both a parent and a child
32:41
and my attitude to inheritance tax changes according to whether I'm looking at it through
32:45
the lens of being a child or through the lens of being a parent so I don't feel remotely sorry for
32:50
DW's children, I think they're lucky. I mean, they're by definition among the 4.72
32:56
luckiest people in the country. But I actually feel sorry for him on that pension point
33:01
But that's where I worry that we're turning into a Radio 4 phone in about personal finance because it's, I don't know
33:06
it seems quite nuanced. DW, take care. Sharl's in Ilford. Sharl, what do you reckon
33:12
Hi, James. Thanks for taking the call. You're very welcome. I think it's the second time we've been talking
33:17
It's been a while. my situation and my perspective on this has changed considerably over the last 20 odd years
33:25
we came from myself my brother we came from a single parent family we lived on benefits
33:32
and we're old enough both of us to have gone to university and had a full
33:37
grant and subsistence and everything and and we inherited nothing not a penny
33:44
from our father when he passed away. Right. And we built ourselves up and we've got..
33:51
We're very, very comfortable. I wouldn't say we're wealthy. You didn't know what word to use then, did you
33:58
Yeah, I know. We are considerably richer than Yao, if it was the fast term
34:03
No, I know you're not. You sound lovely and modest, but I tell you, it's a difficult one. We're English
34:08
We don't know what word to use when we're describing our personal words. My brother, I'm 64, he's 62
34:13
Sorry, I think you're English, Shah. I don't know whether Suella Braverman would agree. So that's just an aside
34:20
She's an absolute. Yeah, we're not talking then. I don't know if I can use that term for a lady
34:25
I'm sorry, you just chose your words so carefully to describe your own finances
34:30
So what's the relationship between that and your views on inheritance, Tak? Well, because we'd inherit things, I've got three children
34:37
Sorry, I've only got two now. The other one passed away last year. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, sorry. I just say three and then I don't remember
34:43
Oh, mate, I'm so sorry. No, it's okay. But, yeah, my brother's got four children
34:50
Right. We live together. I bought this house. It's a big, massive house
34:56
We lived together. Then he moved out, and he's got... We're very well-to-do
35:01
Got it. So there's going to be a fair old chunk of change left. There's a fair old chunk
35:05
And we actually hugged each other about two weeks ago, thinking we were just looking back on where we came from
35:12
and where we are now. and you and because we didn't inherit anything we wanted to pass that on of course um but
35:21
um we've had this conversation but i'll tell you what your colleague tom swarsbrick
35:26
i've heard i've spoke i've listened a lot and his views on this are quite categorical
35:32
um and he's made me rethink because i literally was and my brother was we were thinking about
35:39
how we can protect what we pass on so the children don't have to pay any taxes
35:45
you know, looking at trusts and all sorts of... It's funny, you had an advert just before you came back on
35:52
and it was advertising wealth inheritance and wealth management planning. So they obviously chose the right time to actually advertise wealth
36:02
OK, that was in the junction between me coming on. so we
36:07
I've gone through almost a metamorphosis and my brother as well and because
36:14
we benefited so much because we are where we are because of the state
36:20
because of how it helped us when we were very very poor very very poor
36:25
well this is the social contract isn't it yeah we don't think it's wrong
36:30
well in fact further it is because you've done so well that you should be on the hook for this because you could not have done so well
36:38
without the society in which you have done well 100 100 i don't the last time i spoke to you um
36:48
i mentioned that because we were so poor and we're on this very run-down council estate the choices
36:54
that my brother had half laughingly was either turn to crime and become drug lords or go into
37:00
education and with the mother that we had it was always all going to be down the education route
37:05
and so yeah we are where we are because of the state because of the help and the support
37:10
i am planning and so is my brother we are planning uh so the children don't have to pay
37:16
anything out of their own well it's out of their own pockets but we've actually got them all to set
37:21
up uh bank accounts that they putting money into which will go towards hopefully there another 10 15 20 years Oh yeah absolutely But that will and I said look that something you put aside
37:37
We're not charging you any kind of rent to live with us or anything like that. You put that money aside, and that will pay the inheritance tax, whatever it is
37:45
Well, they don't need to do that, though. I mean, it's turning into a bloody Radio 4 personal finance phone
37:50
I'm sorry. Because it just comes out of what you leave. So the money's there
37:54
It is, but we're also Asian and we like to live together
38:00
And I don't think they want to sell the house. So they would either have to take over
38:04
Ah, OK, got it. Yeah, OK. Yeah. All right, that does make sense
38:08
So that they can fill the hole that is left by the inheritance tax being paid
38:14
I mean, would you have to sell the house? Yeah, you would in some circumstances. Well, you might have to
38:19
I mean, both my sons live with me. My grandchildren live with me. We've got a very large house
38:23
You keep saying that, and I keep hearing the Blur song in the background, but you're in Hilford
38:27
Is it in the country? It's a very big house. He lives in a house, in a very big house, in the country
38:31
And I don't know Blur. I know I've heard of Blur, so I don't know what the song is, so forgive me. I'm a little older than you are
38:36
He lives in a house, in a very big house, in the country. Oh, OK, sorry
38:40
But it's because I've extended and stuff, because I wanted us to live together
38:46
Yeah. It wasn't, yeah. Anyway, let's not just keep talking about it
38:51
I love your perspective, and I love the way you've explained it. And I will pass on to Tom
38:55
the fact that he bears some responsibility for causing you to review
39:00
That's Tom's argument, is it? That you are, generally speaking, if you've made good in this world
39:06
then it has quite a lot to do with the world that you're in and that there is a sort of a debt of gratitude there
39:12
as well as a debt of finance. I think so, but I think our situation, mine and my brothers
39:16
I don't know how different it is, but we are very conscious of where we came from
39:21
and how the state helped us. And, you know, now children having to pay, you know
39:28
enormous tuition fees, we never had to do that. Well, there's a lot there
39:32
There's a lot there. So I don't know how many people are in our situation
39:35
where they have that kind of support, and that's helped us to have the perspective that we have
39:40
Maybe if you didn't have that kind of state support, you feel that you've worked hard
39:47
and you don't want to give any of it back. So I totally... Although most people have
39:51
I mean, you and your bro might have taken a little more help, received a little bit more help than the average bear
39:56
But most of us have. I mean, I could say, well, hang on a minute. I went to private school
40:01
My parents have already paid the school. I mean, the reason probably why there wasn't anything to leave to us when Dad passed away was because he'd spent all his money sending us to private school
40:09
So parents make different decisions. But we all, for example, if someone attacked us tomorrow, then we all need defending and our taxes pay the wages of the army
40:21
If we get sick tomorrow, we all go to hospital and our taxes pay the wages of the people in the NHS
40:27
They build the hospital. So, you know, I love your perspective, Shah. I'm so sorry for your loss as well
40:32
I really am. But I love your perspective on this. It's so human
40:37
And I would say, in contrast to Cammy Baden-Ock's position, I'd say it was a deeply moral argument that you just made
40:44
James O'Brien on LBC. T minus, do we know what time? Excuse me, I'm just going to have a conversation with a colleague that I probably should have had a moment ago
40:52
Do we know what time Cammy Baden-Ock lands? 11.15. It is 11.15
40:57
So it is T minus 7 plus 15 is 22. I told you it shouldn't turn into a Radio 4 personal finance phone
41:09
T minus 22. T minus 22 until the Bedanoch is in the building
41:15
I can't wait for that speech. In fact, as a little aperitif for Kemi Bedanoch's speech
41:21
I want you to listen to something that she said yesterday. And I want you to tell me that this is not David Brent in female form
41:29
We are under new management. Your viewers will know that sometimes you have a football team that's disappointing
41:37
There's a new captain. There's a new coach. There's a new owner, effectively, which is all me
41:47
You think I'm exaggerating when I tell you how much I love her. She's sensational. She's David Brent
41:53
I'll listen to it again. It's that good. It was on GBBs, by the way, in case you're wondering which viewers she's talking about
42:01
We are under new management. Your viewers will know that sometimes you have a football team that's disappointing
42:08
There's a new captain. There's a new coach. There's a new owner, effectively, which is all me
42:14
It's all me. I'm flipping it. Listen, I can sometimes come across, apparently, I can't see it myself
42:19
was quite full of myself. I don't know where people get this idea from, but I received the occasional message
42:24
that suggests that sometimes perhaps I allow my ego to run away with the rest of me
42:28
I mean, even I. Come, I mean, we've got a new captain
42:32
a new coach, and a new owner, and it's all me. Ah, she's magnificent
42:38
Don't look me in the eye and tell me that she's not magnificent. If I had a scintilla of her self-belief
42:45
I reckon I could be Pope. Seriously. Even though I'm married. I'm a Catholic
42:49
I'm halfway there. Pope, king, can't really be king. There's a queue
42:56
But I could have a campaign to be pope next time there's a vacancy. Cammie Bain or not, probably, in her heart of hearts
43:02
thinks she's in with a fair old crack of being a pope, despite being neither a bloke nor a Catholic
43:07
I just find it extraordinary. And what is most amazing about it is that it's contagious
43:15
And that now the right-wing media, because they're getting very worried that Farage is not going to be as electable as he looked a year ago
43:21
before we found out all about the secret donations that he's been trousering
43:25
and sundry other issues like taking tons of money from cryptocurrency billionaires
43:31
and announcing policies that are incredibly advantageous to cryptocurrency billionaires. Little things like that
43:37
I guess your average GBB's viewer isn't going to care about anything like that. They're probably still clinging to the idea that Brexit was a good idea
43:42
But the owners, the owners, the fossil fuel plutocrats, the people that need business as usual to resume in Downing Street as soon as possible, the people who secretly fund the tax averse think tanks, the people that own the media platforms that push forward these ludicrous ideas like Brexit or austerity or Liz Truss or Boris Johnson
44:04
and, of course, the people who are still making tons of money
44:08
out of pillaging the planet and endangering its future, they need someone back in Downing Street who's going to do what they want
44:16
and they're beginning to think that Farage ain't going to cut the mustard. So they're all moving behind Baden-Ock as well
44:22
And it's a wonderful combination of circumstance because she is probably the biggest subscriber
44:28
to the delusion that she's brilliant of all. it's perfect and it's contagious not just to the people that want somebody in downing street who's
44:37
going to uh cut taxes for the already comfortable who's going to make life easier for the fossil
44:41
fuel plutocrats who's going to make even more promises about a blittering immigration to
44:47
distract voters attention away from the things that are really harming their existence um
44:52
it it communicates to voters as well there a level of self that is contagious people who don pay as much attention to politics as we do will see her on the telly or they see her giving a speech
45:05
and say, flipping heck, she's got a lot. She's incredibly pleased with herself
45:10
And then subconsciously they'll think she must have quite a lot to be pleased about
45:14
In some ways, it makes her less irritating than show-offs who are supremely talented
45:19
There's only one thing more annoying than a show-off who is not supremely talented
45:26
and that is a show-off who is super... It's like they get a double hit of smugness. God, he'd eat himself if he was made of chocolate
45:33
And then you kind of have to say, yeah, but he is pretty brilliant as well. He'd say, she'd eat herself if she was made of chocolate
45:37
Yeah, but she is pretty brilliant as well. That's more irritating, right? The more brilliant you are, the more modest you should be
45:43
If you're absolutely rubbish, and yet you think you're brilliant, it's almost endearing
45:49
Almost endearing. So that is one of the reasons... Oh, go on. And let's just hear it once more because it is absolutely magnificent
45:55
Just text me on this and tell me who it reminds you of
45:59
Because I kind of went for David Brent. That's a little bit obvious. It's not quite, there's nothing, there's no word for word clip we could play
46:07
There's the one where he says something like I'm a boss first and then probably an entertainer second or something like that
46:13
That's quite funny, but it's not I'm the captain, the coach and the owner of the team
46:18
It's just magnificent. but which comic character does she most remind you of
46:23
You can text me that on 84850. We are under new management
46:29
Your viewers will know that sometimes you have a football team that's disappointing
46:33
there's a new captain, there's a new coach, there's a new owner, effectively, which is all me
46:41
All me, all me. It's coming up to 11 o'clock. The speech isn't to 11.15, so I'll take a couple more of your calls on this issue
46:48
which is expected to be one of the key parts of her announcement
46:52
which ties in with what I said to you about tax cuts for the already comfortable. Who are you going to focus on first
46:57
People with children who earn over £100,000 a year and the 4.72% of the population who inherit estates
47:02
or rather the 4.72% of estates that are eligible for inheritance tax
47:09
It's magnificent. Simon Marks will be with us at half past 12
47:13
And I also have... you know when you see a story in the news
47:17
and it just chimes with something that you've noticed off the news, like in real life
47:22
this is not going to be the most significant issue of the moment
47:26
but fruit flies I say fruit flies and you go, yes James, we've got loads
47:32
James O'Brien on LBC I think I've been doing the job long enough now not to take it
47:38
personally, but I could sit here and provide you with an absolutely PhD
47:43
level. Obviously, I'd have to get someone else to write it. I could provide you
47:47
with a PhD level ysis of the most crucial issues of the moment and invite
47:53
you to ring in with equally erudite and evidenced contributions. But if you want to set fire to your
48:01
switchboard, in this case my inbox, it's things like fruit flies that will
48:05
do it. I don't know why this is. If we did that every day, if we had phonemes about fruit flies
48:11
our figures would go off a cliff. But it's weird, isn't it? It's as if we are discussing the sort of meat and two veg of the day
48:21
And yet, actually, it's the salt and pepper that we have most visceral reactions to
48:27
So I just said fruit flies to you in passing, because it's a story in the news about why there are so many of them around today
48:33
And I know that as not for the first time, I'm like the page in Good King Winseslis
48:39
Do you remember that verse in Good King Winseslers? They've got Christmas wrapping in Morrisons now, by the way
48:45
just to give you a quick heads up. They've got the Christmas stuff for sale in Morrisons already
48:49
so I can talk about Good King Winseslers. Do you know, I also went to Fortnum and Mason's yesterday as well
48:54
that they have it for sale there. I like to think that tells you who I am. I was in Fortnum and Mason's at 4 o'clock
48:59
and I was in Morrisons at 6 o'clock. But Good King Winseslers, so I am the page
49:04
Which of my colleagues, when it comes to fruit flies, is the king, the good King Wintersless, Nick Abbott
49:11
Nick Abbott, he's written books on fruit flies. I don't know whether they've been published or not
49:15
And Drain Flies, of course, a particular enthusiasm of Nick's. So I'm like the page stepping in the footprints left by Nick Abbott
49:22
and somehow feeling the soothing warmth of his bebooted feet. There's a story about why there's so many around today
49:31
And I have a solution if you have a problem for fruit flies. Which is fruit flies or flute fries
49:36
Flute fries. Fruit flies. I have a solution for fruit flies, literally a solution, actually
49:40
But I know what you're thinking. You think, oh, he's going to do that thing with the cling film. No, no, no, no, no
49:44
I can fix your fruit fly problem if you stay tuned to this programme today
49:48
And I can also tell you why there is an abundance of them this year
49:53
But I would never dream of discussing fruit flies without acknowledging the..
49:58
In fact, Nick puts this brilliant. See what I said about erudition
50:02
James, you simply cannot talk about fruit flies without acknowledging the true authority on the matter
50:07
A walking encyclopedia on a par with Diderot and D'Alembert. The man who has churned out a staggering, endless body of oral literature on the subject
50:17
Nick Abbott. And it's true. Inheritance tax and the moral unjustness of it
50:24
Something that we fully expect to feature quite prominently in Kemi Badenowicz's speech. but which so far, apart from the adjunct of changes to private pension tax legislation
50:36
so far, even people that have paid it have come down on the side of it not being morally unfair
50:41
which is odd because I think, and I think polling supports the idea
50:45
that people find it a particularly egregious charge, a particularly egregious levy
50:51
But maybe it's mostly people that are never going to be called upon to pay it
50:55
Catherine's in Leeds. Catherine, what would you like to say? it morning it was when you're explaining the rules a couple of breaks ago go radio four on me
51:04
aren't you now oh great are you an expert i i retired last year as a solicitor and also as a
51:11
chartered tax advisor since 1989 it's even worse for your listeners if they don't know the rules
51:20
properly you're absolutely right you're absolutely right if an estate is more than about 2.4 million
51:25
you lose the house allowance because an individual's half a million allowances is made up of the 325
51:32
the basic allowance, and 175 for the house. But if mum dies, leaves it all to dad, dad dies, and they're worth more than, say, 2.4
51:39
For every £2 over 2 million, you knock off a pound off the 175
51:45
So they could pay more tax, which is how sad. They only tax you on what you have
51:50
They don't tax you on what you don't have. there's absolutely nothing wrong with paying inheritance tax we have rights but we also have
51:58
responsibilities we can't have one without the other i had a state education i went to university
52:04
when i had no fees to pay i was paid a maintenance grant i was able to qualify into a good profession
52:11
and yeah we have to pay our way um yes it's a no-brainer for you what were your clients like
52:20
Were your clients divided on the fairness of it? It was funny
52:24
When the election was called in June whenever it was 2024 and I knew I was going to retire at the end of the year I actually retired just early in 25
52:35
And I thought, I've had enough of having to be polite to people for 35
52:39
years. And they've come on and the first thing they'd say was, oh, I've got to change my will, got to change
52:43
my will, got to change my will. What if Labour get in? What if Labour get in? And I would just say
52:47
to them, you've never bothered about the fact that the Tories have slashed
52:51
the capital gains tax allowance from 12,000 odd to 3,000. I never read that in the papers as headline news
52:58
Oh, wow. Oh, did they do that? Did they do that? I said, yes, but it's just who runs the newspapers in the country
53:06
So they're persuaded to panic about inheritance tax, but the Tories took away nine grand
53:11
Yeah, yeah. I didn't even know that myself, Catherine. Yeah, and also, I mean, it was Alastair Darling
53:16
who introduced the carryover of the 325,000 pound allowance. Yes, yes. So, you know, before that, if mum died, didn't use her allowance because she'd left it all to dad, she lost her allowance
53:30
Yes, so it was a Labour government that improved the terms and conditions of inheritance tax
53:35
Yeah, yeah. Well, you're absolutely right about people taking too much out of the newspapers who are sort of concerned about the other end of the economic scale, aren't they
53:43
The owners and what have you, who are never going to be hit by this anyway because they've got special arrangements
53:49
I think the owner of the Daily Mail, or certainly his father, had an extraordinary arrangement by which he was registered overseas for tax
53:55
but lived here. Have I got anything else wrong while I have you? No
54:00
It is a million. Can you just tell me how that bit works, how it is so two people
54:04
who are still together, one passes away, leaves it to the other one
54:08
and then the other one passes away and leaves it to the children, and the threshold then becomes a million pounds
54:14
Yes. I don't know what people paid you for, Catherine. I just knocked it out of the park
54:21
So it's husband and wife. So you've got to be married and you've got to have and then have children
54:27
The definition of the children under the house rule is slightly wider than we normally use the definition of children
54:33
But yes, since so on the death of a surviving spouse after the 9th of October 2007
54:41
the surviving spouse can carry over and use the unused tax allowance of whoever died first
54:47
So it's 500,000 times two? Yes. That's pretty good. And I think most people don't realize that
54:54
So you're sort of being told it's 40% and people, and maybe some journalism phrases it like this or frames it like this
55:00
they think it's going to be 40% of everything, including that first million or that first half a million
55:04
in the event of you being divorced or single. Interesting. Are you enjoying retirement
55:11
Yes. I don't miss the work. No, I'm glad. Do you wish that you'd started being rude to your clients sooner
55:17
No, I loved the job up until COVID, and then I dealt with death for a couple of years
55:24
with all the estates. That was too much. And then nothing worked after that
55:29
The probate registry is a nightmare. The revenue produced rubbish, and it just became hard work
55:35
I'm in Leeds on Saturday, Catherine. I'm up for the weekend at the Leeds Festival of Ideas
55:42
I don't know if you've taken in any of it, but it's a wonderful, wonderful thing. I think my event is sold out
55:46
but there's still other brilliant things going on there. It's a lovely thing to do
55:50
I'm really looking forward to it. It's my dad's town, Leeds, as well, so hopefully I might be able to catch up with one of my cousins
55:56
Twelve minutes after 11 is the time. Thank you, Catherine. From Catherine to Carol, from Leeds to Glasgow
56:00
Carol, what would you like to say? Hi, James. Yeah, so I'm in a situation where I'm single
56:07
and I have got no kids. So I get the basic, well, my estate will get the basic 325,000
56:13
and assuming I make it to at least next April, my pension pot then comes in to use up
56:20
basically we'll wipe out the whole allowance. So anything left over would be subject to 40% tax
56:28
Now, basically anything that's left over goes to my sister's kids and from their point of view, yes, absolutely I agree
56:36
they're getting a windfall, so no complaints. But I think the point I have is that I've been brought up
56:41
in the generation where you saved. You were taught to save. And, you know, I'm also in a situation where I think, you know
56:49
at some stage I may have to go into a care home. So you're putting money aside in case you have to pay care home fees
56:58
And then if I die, the government just takes 40% of it. So I feel like, you know, you're sort of being punished
57:03
for trying to do the right thing. Do you? And that's what I think is unfair
57:08
I mean, that is, I don't choose my words carefully. That's a mindset, isn't it
57:14
Because you feel that you're being punished, whereas other people feel that they have been blessed
57:19
to be in that position in the first place. Absolutely, I agree
57:23
It can't be both. Well, maybe it can be both, but you are either blessed or punished
57:27
And most of my callers have felt blessed to be in that situation, and yet you feel, not all, and I'm not having a go at you
57:33
I'm just observing, but you could, if you sort of recalibrated, think, God, aren't I lucky to be eligible to pay this money to the Inland Revenue
57:43
before I hand on chunky old sums of cash to my nieces and nephews
57:48
Yeah, no, I totally take that on board, but I suppose I still struggle with the fact that, you know
57:53
if I decided to go off and blow it all on a world cruise tomorrow, that's absolutely fine
57:58
But there's nothing to stop you doing that. Well, there is, because I want to make sure that if I ever have to go into a care home
58:06
I'm not going to be a burden on the state and I'm going to be able to pick that bill up myself
58:10
I don't like that. I'm punished for doing that. Well, punished is such an odd word to use because you wouldn't feel that you were being, you know, in any way a burden on the state if you got poorly and needed NHS treatment
58:21
I think we're back to the phone-ins from last week about the fact that social care should be treated like medical care now and it's actually a mistake to have separated them
58:29
And of course, if you did need that, then they can put a charge on your home and the money wouldn't actually be handed over, as it were, until after that you had passed away
58:40
I think you should go on that cruise, Carol. That's an interesting thought
58:46
You know, because there's a balance to be struck. I hope you haven't lived your life in sort of ascetic terms
58:56
I hope you haven't denied yourself lots of pleasures in order to accrue. No, I haven't
59:00
No, well, I'm very glad to hear it, because, you know, that would be a shame
59:04
But I do understand where the psychological sense of punishment comes from
59:09
But equally, I understand the people who have described it as proof of how lucky they are
59:13
I don't think your nieces or nephews are going to be unduly troubled
59:17
No, they won't be. They won't be. But I understand why you are. It's kind of a principle, I suppose
59:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, do you know? I didn't know this. I only learnt it today
59:26
You can leave a lot of it to... It's not just charities
59:31
Did you know that community sports clubs have a special... Community amateur sports clubs
59:37
If you leave everything above that threshold to a community amateur sports club
59:42
then you don't have to pay any tax on it. Oh, I didn't know that
59:47
Well, now you do. They'll be queuing up outside. The local footy teams, all the rest of it
59:54
the carless they'll all be queered off outside your place carl take care thank you very much no thank you
59:59
very much. She even sounded like one of those Radio 4 phoning. So thank you very much. Thank
1:00:05
you, Carol. It's just gone 16 minutes after 11. All eyes on Birmingham. Do you know what
1:00:10
Jane Austen said about Birmingham? She said, one has no great hopes from Birmingham. There
1:00:15
is something direful in the sound. It's a lovely word, direful. We don't use it enough
1:00:20
It's not really fair. Birmingham has its moments. It's probably a nicer city now than it was
1:00:25
when I was growing up just down the road. But that is where the Conservative Party conference
1:00:29
is and that is why I exaggerate slightly but that's why I said all eyes are on Birmingham
1:00:35
Kemi Bader not due to make her speech and we are I think
1:00:39
going to take it well we are going to take it live I can change my mind
1:00:43
halfway through if we're all falling asleep I can't do that is this because it's a new
1:00:47
thing we're doing but so literally once you press play you can't
1:00:51
unplay it are you sure so we're doing something new which one of
1:00:55
the bosses was explaining to Eleanor earlier and I'm afraid I zoned out completely
1:00:59
I've got no idea what's going on, but you'll be able to watch it live on the LBC app
1:01:06
And that means, because of how we're taking the feed, it'll be on YouTube as well
1:01:11
because of how, and Global Player, of course, and the LBC app
1:01:16
because of how we're taking the feed, once we start, we can't stop
1:01:22
That can't be right. Can't you just pull a plug out? Keith's on holiday at the moment
1:01:25
Robin's standing in for him. Can't we just pull a plug out or something, Robin, and then I could start talking again
1:01:30
Would that work? I mean, is it true that once we take it
1:01:34
we absolutely have to stay with it until the very end? What if she goes on forever
1:01:39
What if it never ends? This is like a sort of Sisyphean speech
1:01:44
Anyway, I'm filling time. I shall talk to Stephen Chelmsford instead with a warning, Steve
1:01:48
that I might have to cut you off in your prime if Kemi Bader not appears at the podium
1:01:54
What would you like to say, mate? Well, I'd just like to agree with a number of your other callers
1:01:59
about paying inheritance tax, to be quite honest. You know, initially the reaction of having to pay $36,500 for me was whoopee
1:02:09
Because of what was left after you'd paid the $36,500. Absolutely. Yeah, I think that... I mean, was it straight up as well
1:02:16
I mean, there was no sort of slow process or slow realisation. You just... That's the alternative, isn't it
1:02:21
You sit there with potentially half a million quid in your back pocket. I was in a position where shortly afterwards I was offered early redundancy
1:02:30
Right. Double bubble. Paid off the mortgage and whoopee. Double bubble. And was it full thresholds
1:02:37
Did you come away with half a million quid? No. You don't have to tell me
1:02:42
It was 10 years ago. And the actual threshold was 650,000, I believe
1:02:49
So you've got that. You're splitting that with a sibling, I think. One, yeah
1:02:52
And so you've got that in your back pocket. No, no, no. I paid £36,500
1:02:58
No, I know. I know. So you're splitting the original figure with your sibling. And the people that we're being asked to feel sorry for
1:03:03
and the people that Cammie Badenock is talking to today are the people who've walked away with comfortable six-figure sums
1:03:09
and really resent the £36,000 they had to pay to the revenue. Yeah, absolutely
1:03:14
It does sound a bit daft when you put it like that. Well, yeah, and it was nice to be part of the 4.5%, really
1:03:19
You're very nice to be part of the 4.5%. And also, you know, this is patriotism
1:03:25
Patriotism isn't sticking a balaclava helmet on and going to hurl abuse at RNLI volunteers
1:03:31
although there's an extraordinary and entirely predictable story about those clowns in the news today
1:03:35
And a queue, a growing queue of ex-partners coming forward to say
1:03:40
you see this bloke on the telly launching a so-called anti-immigration march in Portsmouth
1:03:45
Well, that's my ex, that is, and he was physically abusive towards me, including in one case with an actual machete
1:03:50
these days he's running around outside houses of multiple occupancy claiming that they're full of asylum seekers
1:03:57
and he's there to protect women you could see this from space unless you were
1:04:01
actually sympathetic to the racism. 20 minutes after 11. Somebody who sounds a bit like Penny
1:04:07
Mordaunt but isn't, this is the kind of material I have to work with
1:04:11
at moments like this when we're waiting for something to happen, is currently inviting every
1:04:15
member of the shadow cabinet out in front of the stage And we know it's not Penny Mordaunt because Penny Mordaunt is probably not allowed to be in the Conservative Party at the moment
1:04:26
And the reason for that is that Kemi Badenoch is, well, she's not just in charge, of course
1:04:32
She is more than in charge. She's in charge in ways that only Kemi Badenoch could possibly be
1:04:39
We are under new management. Your viewers will know that sometimes you have a football team that's disappointing
1:04:46
there's a new captain, there's a new coach there's a new owner
1:04:51
effectively, which is all me which is all me so they're all standing
1:04:57
all these people, they're probably standing, what am I doing here she's the captain, she's the coach
1:05:01
she's the owner, she's the left back she's the right back, she's the centre half
1:05:05
she's the striker, she's the right wing, she's the left what am I here for, that's probably why
1:05:09
they're now making the entire shadow cabinet line up in front of the stage while a lady
1:05:13
on stage reads out their job descriptions because they probably need to be reminded
1:05:17
that although she is the owner and the captain and the coach and could probably do a better job than them
1:05:23
in all 11 positions on the pitch, they do actually have official jobs
1:05:28
which have nothing to do. Please ignore the fact that they all had jobs in the last government as well
1:05:34
or that almost all of them had jobs in the last government as well, including the shadow chancellor
1:05:38
who was number three in Liz Truss's treasury because it's all changed now in the Conservative Party
1:05:44
And the fact that the current shadow chancellor was number three in Liz Truss's treasury should in no way make you wonder whether it's true when she claims that a new day has dawned
1:05:55
Simon Marks will be with me at half past twelve with another potpourri of political events from the other side of the Atlantic
1:06:02
including a story that is as, I would say, as troubling as the story yesterday about the bloke who claimed to have met Jesus and had a red carpet rolled out for him on Fox News was bizarre
1:06:13
Those of us who do think that Donald Trump has always represented a real and present danger to democracy itself
1:06:21
getting yet more evidence that their concerns, their misgivings were well placed
1:06:27
That story with Simon Marks at half past 12 today. She's now seven minutes late or, as Kemi Bader not would put it, bang on schedule
1:06:36
She is absolutely bang on schedule and it's our fault for thinking that when they said it was going to start at quarter past 11
1:06:42
we thought it would actually start at quarter past 11. I think we can all agree
1:06:46
that the fact that she is now eight minutes late has absolutely nothing to do
1:06:51
with Kemi Bader not now being eight minutes late. Let's talk to Garin
1:06:54
Garin or Garin in Goring? Oh, don't be ridiculous. That can't all be true
1:06:59
Hopefully it is. Garin? Garin? Yes, Garin. Garin in Goring. As in Yuri Gagarin, but without the first two bits
1:07:06
That's a fantastic name. It's a bit like a dwarf in Tolkien, isn't it
1:07:10
It's got a cool ring to it. I like that. What made you pick up the phone? Thank you
1:07:14
I rang in a while ago because one of your other callers was talking about
1:07:17
complaining that they were paying around £800,000 in inheritance tax. Yes. I worked out a few days ago that I probably pay about the same Right I think it fair I think it good to pay back into the system and to contribute to society I mean who else is going to if not the people who got a few quid Yeah
1:07:37
I think one of the reasons I was ringing apart from that is I think it needs to be
1:07:42
fair for all I'm not complaining about my position I've benefited from
1:07:48
free education, going to university but I think if I worked out
1:07:54
I would pay something more. My children would pay about £800,000 in inheritance tax
1:07:58
If I was a farmer, that wouldn't be the case. If I was the Duke of Westminster, that certainly wouldn't be the case
1:08:05
So, I mean, in many ways, what she should be announcing is a clampdown on the people who avoid it
1:08:12
Exactly, yeah. And I think that's what it needs to be inheritance tax for all. I defend the farmers on this, oddly
1:08:18
And, I mean, I've managed sometimes, mate, I don't know if you've ever noticed this, to adopt a position on a controversial subject that makes everybody hate me
1:08:25
So the farmers already hate me for being in favour of what Keir Starmer did to their inheritance tax
1:08:30
but you're going to hate me now for saying actually the farmers do deserve slightly special treatment
1:08:35
they shouldn't be treated the same as everybody else, because they're already sort of doing a patriotic service to the country by being farmers
1:08:44
I think it's important to treat people fairly and equally. I think in that regard, that would be the case
1:08:52
I think it also makes it, I'm not a farmer, but if they want to become a farmer
1:08:57
I think it makes it easier for other people who don't have a long history of wealthy families
1:09:02
To get into the industry, yeah, there's an argument to be had, actually. I don't think I'm going to get on my high horse about it
1:09:07
but I do understand why historically farmers have been protected from the kind of inheritance that you and I would be expected to pay
1:09:15
because the home is the business. The farmhouse is the centre of the farm as well, so it is a slightly different proposition
1:09:23
But when she says it's morally wrong, and this is why I love Kemi Bader not so much
1:09:27
it's actually morally almost perfect, if they could just extend it further
1:09:34
to the people who avoid it most egregiously and most disingenuously. Yeah, and I think here's statistics that the top 50 families in the UK
1:09:43
earn more than the poorest 50%. I think that's the biggest problem
1:09:48
I think it's sometimes the term cost of living crisis. I think it's more of a cost of greed crisis
1:09:53
because I think if inheritance tax could reach them and mean that the next chief of Westminster
1:10:00
only had £5 billion rather than £10 billion, I'm sure he'd cope
1:10:04
And the other 50% of the families struggling, I think, would benefit from that
1:10:11
So I think that's the issue. It's one of the great lies of the moment, isn't it
1:10:15
Thank you, mate. Lovely stuff. One of the great lies of the moment is that if you say something like what Garin just said
1:10:22
$10 billion to $5 billion, that somehow you hate wealth or you're discriminating against wealth
1:10:26
as if $5 billion isn't wealth. Cami Bainanot is now so late that we may even have to go to the news
1:10:33
I hope she's all right. What are they doing on other grown-up programs? What are they doing
1:10:38
Are they just waffling like me, just doing all sorts of just yaggy-yaggy? Yeah, well, they've all got people in the studio, though, haven't they
1:10:43
No offence, Garen. You got any thoughts on Cammy Baden-Ock's speech, mate? I won't be listening to it
1:10:49
Well, don't say... You've got to listen to it, because it's going to be on this..
1:10:53
What are you going to do instead? I can't do a phone-in on that. I was going to go to the gym
1:10:58
Oh, fair enough, actually. Well, that's why I shouldn't have done that in the first place, isn't it
1:11:04
What are you going to do now, instead of listening to the speech that I'm going to be playing out? Oh, 3, 4, 5, 6, 0, 6, 0
1:11:09
the phones are going to explode now and I'm not even talking about fruit flies, do not ring me
1:11:13
to tell me what you're going to be doing instead of listening to LBC for the next
1:11:17
if she ever flipping starts it's 11.27 now, I reckon we might get to the
1:11:21
news headlines, did we skip the last hiya, I'm not supposed to
1:11:25
call it a break, what do I call it instead the last junction
1:11:29
interlude, the last hydration did we skip that because we thought she was going to be on time, anyway
1:11:35
it's a good job she's not late She's definitely not late. Just because it was supposed to start at 11.15
1:11:41
Do you know what happened yesterday? After she really made a fool of herself on Nick's show
1:11:46
And for the record, I'm not a fan of questions that you know the answer to when you're doing an interview with a politician
1:11:51
which I hardly ever do now. There's only so much stuff they've got in front. I mean, occasionally it can be embarrassing
1:11:56
Like, do you know how many Rice Krispies there are in a Rice Krispie box? But you're the minister for breakfast cereal
1:12:01
I can tell you there are 467 Rice Krispies. So if you know the answer to the question
1:12:06
and they are temporarily unable to tell you, that's just pointless gotcharism
1:12:10
But if you're announcing something that you have described in a national newspaper as being modelled on Israel's Iron Dome
1:12:17
and you can't explain anything about it, not just the fine detail, but the fundamental functionality of it
1:12:25
then it's a disaster visible from space. But, of course, Kami Bader not won't have seen it that way
1:12:33
Do you know what she did later in the day? There was an article in the Sun newspaper that contained the phrase, written by her, under her byline, by Kemi Badenok, contained the phrase, modelled on Israel's Iron Dome
1:12:45
So an air defence system, and I quote, modelled on Israel's Iron Dome, end quotes
1:12:51
And by lunchtime, she was claiming publicly, with a straight face, that no comparisons had been made to Israel's Iron Dome
1:13:01
Unbelievable. Unbelievable. but there it is, Kemi Bader. And that's why I can categorically say that she is not late
1:13:09
Just as I can categorically say that after she wrote an article comparing the new air defense
1:13:13
system to Israel's Iron Dome, she definitely did not compare the new air defense system
1:13:18
to Israel's Iron Dome. Just as I can say that when she described maternity pay as excessive
1:13:23
and later had to come out and say that she had not described maternity pay as excessive
1:13:28
despite the fact that we'd heard us describe maternity pay as excessive, she definitely
1:13:32
hadn't made a gaffe. And how do I know that? Because she doesn't make gaffes, she told us
1:13:38
It's now half past 11. My powers of filling time are legendary. So I can either wade through the
1:13:45
news now, do something else, maybe do some top fruit fly material, or I can go to the news with
1:13:51
a warning that I might have to come out of the news if Kemi Bader not remembers that she's supposed
1:13:55
to be giving a speech in Birmingham. Here's Dominic Ellis with your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC
1:14:02
Well, this is awkward. Listen, it was actually my decision to take the speech live. Eleanor wasn't 100% convinced. And the management said, it's up to you, James, you can decide whether you're going to take it or not
1:14:20
And I thought I will because I am such a fan of Kemi Bader. I think she's magnificent, the finest contribution to public discourse in a generation
1:14:31
I mean, she's the single most hilarious politician. And she's even more hilarious than all the other hilarious politicians
1:14:36
There's a touch of the re-smogs there in the gulf between her opinion of herself and what everybody else sees
1:14:42
But, of course, she's not posh. So you don't get all the cap doffing and the forelock tugging from people who sadly think that just because Jacob Rees-Mogg talks like a penny farthing in human form, he must therefore be clever
1:14:54
And then you don have the Dorries stuff You don actually have the kind of madness in her eyes that you get with Doris that makes you feel sometimes a little bit uncomfortable about Mockinga
1:15:07
But nobody knows where she is. I'm not even exaggerating. So I've got three choices for you
1:15:12
Kemi Bedenok is now 20 minutes late for her conference speech, although, of course, according to Kemi Bedenok
1:15:18
she's bang on schedule. Is it A, she's lost her speech. that she's literally running around Birmingham going
1:15:25
I've lost my speech, I've lost my speech. Is it B, she's lost her nerve
1:15:31
possibly because she's been listening to this programme or she read my column in the eye this morning
1:15:35
Or is it C, and you think I'm being self-referential. I think she, did she not name check me in her
1:15:40
oh no, that was generic. I think she said something on Ian Dale's show once about me
1:15:47
Or is it C, she's still in the middle of her mantras. Do you remember her mantras
1:15:51
the new statesman claimed to have found a notebook that she'd left at the Dorchester Hotel
1:15:55
before giving a speech which contained mantras. So you look at yourself in the mirror
1:16:00
and you go, remember, you are the standard bearer of the right
1:16:05
Or you go, you are a serious person who does big things
1:16:09
This is what they found on the, this is what she could be doing at the moment. Breathe, breathe, breathe
1:16:15
So these are her mantras. I want you to listen out if she ever starts delivering her speech
1:16:20
One of the television stations have started playing old clips of PMQs now. They're so confused about where she..
1:16:24
I hope she's all right. And obviously, if she's not all right, then none of this is appropriate or particularly funny
1:16:29
But until we know for sure what's happening to her, it's pretty much the only choice we've got
1:16:33
So I'll run through the mantras now. And then when she starts doing the speech
1:16:38
I want you to see if you can spot the evidence that she's been running through her mantras again
1:16:43
So here's the first one. Breathe, breathe, breathe. Once again. Breathe, breathe, breathe
1:16:52
So you listen out for that. And then you will also listen out for, but it might be hard to tell the difference
1:16:56
pause, pause, pause. Pause, pause, pause. Or if you prefer pause, pause, pause
1:17:04
Number three, you are a serious person who does big things. You are a serious..
1:17:10
You've got to look yourself in the mirror and you go, you are a serious... Shall we start doing this, Eleanor, before the show
1:17:14
This might change the nature of the programme slightly. You are a serious person who does big things
1:17:19
And then Eleanor would say, no, you're not. I said, yes, I am. I am a serious person who does big things
1:17:25
Remember, you are the standard bearer of the right. I don't think I can do that one
1:17:29
but she might be doing it at the moment. Remember, you are a standard bearer of the right
1:17:35
This won't happen in a speech. This is more of a PMQ's thing. Pivot to attacking Labour when uncomfortable
1:17:42
Pivot to attack... She's in the room. Ladies and gentlemen, she's in the room
1:17:46
She is accompanied by 14 oiled dancers making her way into the hall in Birmingham
1:17:54
dressed as Boudicca. 14 oiled dancers on shire horses, currently... No, it's just her
1:18:02
She's coming onto the stage in a lovely blue dress, giving a wave, and the speech is about to begin
1:18:07
Remember, you are the standard bearer of the right. Breathe, breathe, breathe
1:18:28
You are a serious person who does big things. And the captain, the coach and the owner
1:18:39
Whee! Any minute now. 23 minutes late, although bang on schedule in the world of Kemi-Badano
1:18:55
A little sip of water there. Thank you. And we're off. Thank you
1:19:04
Thank you, Compton. Wow. Thank you, conference
1:19:19
Conference, there is a fight coming in British politics. A fight that we have not seen in this country for more than half a century
1:19:33
It will be a battle for the soul of this nation. A battle of ideas
1:19:39
a battle that goes to the very core of who we are and what kind of country we want to be
1:19:50
On one side, we have a government that wants to wind back the clock to the failed ideas of the past
1:19:59
They believe economic growth is created by politicians. They think government knows best
1:20:07
they think that your income, your pension and your savings are theirs to take and then hand out as they see fit
1:20:19
They believe that what they are doing is compassionate but we know that these ideas will make every single person in this country poorer
1:20:37
Your taxes will be higher. Your bills will go up
1:20:47
You will find it harder and harder to make ends meet. Just because these ideas are delivered on TikTok
1:20:53
doesn't make them any less dangerous than they have always been. on the other side of the battle
1:21:07
is us a renewed conservative party fighting again for the belief that what people earn belongs to them
1:21:16
not government that the collective wisdom of people in our country
1:21:29
is greater than the central planning of bureaucrats and politicians that spending money we don't have on things we cannot afford
1:21:39
is not kind, it is reckless This is a critical moment
1:21:54
The world is becoming more dangerous. Western economies are becoming more fragile
1:22:02
We are running out of money and running out of time to put it right
1:22:07
conference, we have a fight on our hands and we need to be ready
1:22:13
no one else is going to solve these problems no one else is going to deliver
1:22:17
a stronger economy and a stronger country applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause Too many people have been going the wrong way
1:22:38
We are the ones who know the right way. conference let me take a moment please to remember two great friends we've lost recently
1:22:57
the indomitable ann widdekombe a formidable politician never afraid to speak her mind
1:23:12
She always fought for what she believed in, and her politics were guided by her faith and her values
1:23:23
And Geoffrey Archer, a brilliant author and a dear friend to the Conservative Party and to me
1:23:29
after my speech on Sunday he sent me a lovely message he said great speech great outfits
1:23:48
I am going to miss him very different personalities with very different lives
1:23:56
but the world is a less colourful place without them both. And what a great conference we've had
1:24:14
some people were worried that we couldn't top last year's conference in manchester
1:24:27
did you see that absolutely wonderful ukrainian children's choir weren't they fantastic
1:24:32
did you get a chance to catch jeremy clarkson telling it like it is
1:24:44
And of course, let's not forget the great historical artefact, the chronicle of our times, the majestic Birmingham tapestry
1:25:07
Last year in Manchester, we showed that this party is back. This year in Birmingham, we have shown that we are the only party with the team and the plan to get Britain working again
1:25:33
What's Labour been up to this last year? Keir Starmer. Remember him
1:25:39
last year he was talking about being in power for a decade now he's not even an mp life comes at you
1:25:50
pretty fast and to think people were writing us off let me tell you i'm not someone who gets written off and
1:26:08
neither is the Conservative Party. Conference, there is a reason our party is still here after 200 years
1:26:32
We have adapted to every single challenge and every single age, and we are doing it again
1:26:40
We have a great team, and we are already making a difference
1:26:45
Just this week, Labour U-turned on jury trials because Nick Timothy won the argument for victims
1:27:02
Labour U-turned on the family farm tax because Vicky Atkins won the argument for farmers
1:27:19
They U-turned on banning social media for under-16s because Laura Trott won the argument for children
1:27:32
We put Labour under constant scrutiny for the mess they were making
1:27:41
on welfare, on Peter Mandelson, on not having a plan for our country
1:27:47
We are doing our jobs. conference we are fighting for what we believe in again we are fighting for what we know is right
1:28:06
we are making people's lives better this summer while everyone else was squabbling over a by-election
1:28:15
in Makerfield, a by-election about one man's job, Douglas Lomsden fought a campaign in Aberdeen
1:28:23
South for thousands of people's jobs. Together, we fought to put the interests of the great
1:28:40
city of Aberdeen first and the people heard us. Douglas didn't just win Aberdeen South
1:28:47
he won 50% of the vote. Conservatives hadn't won a by-election in Scotland in nearly 60 years. Last time we were in opposition
1:29:09
it took us 11 years to gain a seat in a by-election
1:29:14
This time, we did it in less than two. Douglas won because we understood what was wrong
1:29:32
and we had a plan to put it right. We made it clear whose side we were on
1:29:38
We fought for them, and we are going to do that everywhere in our country
1:29:53
Conference, I told you that we have a fight on our hands. There are separatists running not just Scotland
1:29:59
but Wales and Northern Ireland too. And our Prime Minister clumsily opened the door to a second Scottish referendum
1:30:09
while his leader in Scotland actively supports one. Only the Conservatives will fight properly for our union
1:30:17
and Russell Findlay and Darren Miller are on the front line of that fight
1:30:30
I am proud to have them leading our parties in Scotland and in Wales
1:30:39
and we need to give them all our support. Aberdeen South shows that we can win wherever we get our message across
1:30:49
Conference, the Conservatives are coming back, not just in Aberdeen South, not just in London, not just in places like Swindon, Fairham, Harlow, Trafford and Milton Keynes
1:31:03
but everywhere. We are going to win not for ourselves but for our country, for every hard
1:31:10
working person out there, for everyone who wants to see common sense restored, for everyone who
1:31:16
wants to see Britain working again. We are going to win for everyone who wants to see our great
1:31:22
country united. Unlike Andy Burnham, I believe we need to learn from the past, not live in the past
1:32:00
We have acknowledged our mistakes. We have set out what this party believes
1:32:06
We are making it clear that those beliefs are expected of everyone who stands for us
1:32:13
In the past, we had people who used our party to get elected and then betrayed our values
1:32:22
I am building a united team of people, a team motivated by public service, not self-service
1:32:43
In 2024, voters gave their verdict on the rows, the plots and the infighting
1:32:50
remember all that drama? That's gone. The Conservatives have had an export boom
1:33:08
We have had an export boom of drama queens going to reform
1:33:13
This party is now the no-drama party
1:33:24
We are the no-nonsense party. No other party, no other party in Britain has got a team with talent like mine
1:33:41
Look at Shadow Foreign Secretary. They are a great team. Thank you
1:33:47
Look at Shadow Foreign Secretary Tom Tugendhat. He would have told Ed Miliband not to shake hands with the Iranian foreign minister
1:33:56
Shadow Chancellor Andrew Griffith. He has more business experience than John Healy, Rachel Reeves and Gordon Brown combined
1:34:05
Thank you. And Shadow Equality's Minister Joy Morrissey
1:34:16
She has more common sense than the whole of the Labour Party
1:34:28
We have rising stars like Harriet Cross, Katie Lam and Rebecca Paul bursting with ideas
1:34:35
Conference, there is no one more determined to stop the boats than Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp
1:34:40
The first... Chris Philp, the first British politician to be fired on by the French since the Battle of Trafalgar
1:35:00
Conference, let me tell you a secret about our shadow cabinet. We actually like each other
1:35:10
We like each other, we respect each other's experience, and we listen to each other's ideas
1:35:21
What a contrast with the Labour Cabinet or Reform's circular firing squad
1:35:28
My entire front bench and parliamentary party are a great team. A conference we will need many more talented people in the next Parliament
1:35:39
people who have had successful careers outside Westminster not just people who know how to talk a good game
1:35:46
people who know how to get stuff done if you've never thought about a career in politics
1:36:02
now's your time we want talent from all walks of life Every single Conservative MP and candidate must bring Conservative values and principles to the table and stick to them
1:36:25
So, conference, all our candidates will sign a commitment to these high standards
1:36:31
Integrity, duty, discipline. Common sense is non-negotiable. negotiable. The country needs to know that when you vote Conservative, you get Conservative
1:36:54
Conference, we have changed our party, but there is still a lot of work to do. A lot of work
1:37:00
people are looking through the shop window they like what they see
1:37:05
but let's be honest not enough of them are buying yet we need to fix that
1:37:12
a few weeks ago I was at London Fashion Week attending Marks & Spencer's first ever Catwalk show
1:37:21
M is a brand that has been around for a hundred years not so long ago critics said they were a bit stuffy and stuck in the past Some were even questioning whether the brand would survive Do you see where
1:37:38
I'm going with this conference? But now M&S is back in fashion. Great looks at affordable
1:37:52
prices, they have adapted their style for today's market, and people are flooding back
1:37:58
including me, as you've probably noticed this week. Just like M&S, we must learn from our mistakes, win bad trust, and make people feel good about
1:38:17
our party again. We have to get out there every day to make the conservative case. It
1:38:23
took Labour 18 years to get back after 1979. It took us 13 years to turn it around after
1:38:31
1997. It took Labour 14 years after 2010, and even then, they didn't win, we lost
1:38:47
I want us to win in three years' time. To be honest, I want us to win next week
1:38:54
We are ready for an election, whenever it's called, because we are the only party that understands what has gone wrong in Britain
1:39:01
and knows how to put it right. We are a team
1:39:16
We are a family and we are going to do this together
1:39:21
Labour are putting all their hope in just one man. But they don't get a clean slate just because they have changed the leader
1:39:30
We are going to hold them to account and expose every single failure
1:39:37
In fact, Andy Burnham doesn't have a clean slate. This is a man who was happy to serve in Jeremy Corbyn's shadow cabinet
1:39:47
He wasn't the junior DEFRA PPS. He was the shadow home secretary, nodding along to a man who wanted to take the UK out of NATO
1:39:59
give up our nuclear deterrent, and even disband our army. When Andy Burnham was in opposition with Corbyn, he didn't feel a need to change the leader
1:40:11
But after Keir Starmer won a landslide, Burnham couldn't wait to get back and take it off him
1:40:17
That is who Andy Burnham is. Don't let this man fool you with his fluttering eyelashes and his pork scratchings
1:40:41
He said, he said, opening number 10 North was the best day of his life. Really
1:40:50
It's got a fake cabinet room, a cardboard cutout of Larry the Cat, and the address isn't even number 10. It's all make-believe
1:41:00
In Liverpool last week, he promised a national care service at a cost of 18 billion pounds without a plan to pay for it
1:41:09
Yet again, we have a Labour Prime Minister making a promise that he cannot deliver with sums that do not add up
1:41:19
This is the wrong way of doing things. Fifty years ago, the state was failing to run businesses it had no business running
1:41:29
British Leyland, British Telecom, British Airways, British Steel. Government couldn't manage them properly
1:41:36
In fact, political interference made their problems worse. Andy Burnham is willfully ignorant of those lessons
1:41:47
He doesn't want to know because it doesn't fit his world view
1:41:51
So he is going to make the same mistakes and we will all pay for those mistakes
1:42:06
He wants to reopen the Brexit debate. Can you imagine having to go through that again
1:42:14
So much time lost, arguing with ourselves, arguing with the EU, going round and round in circles
1:42:22
businesses not knowing whether they should invest. He wants to do it all again
1:42:27
I think that is a terrible idea. The last thing we should do right now is rerun those arguments
1:42:49
Those were Andy Burnham's exact words when he was campaigning in Makerfield
1:42:54
What's changed, Prime Minister? Conference, at least he has delayed his biggest plans
1:43:02
and the worst ones until after the next election. so I know he's never going to do any of them
1:43:07
because he's not going to be Prime Minister after the next election
1:43:16
Not if I have anything to do with it, no. I'm more worried about what wasn't in his speech last week
1:43:31
Funding defence wasn't in it. Getting borrowing under control wasn't in it
1:43:38
Stopping illegal immigration wasn't in it. Cutting crime wasn't in it. Cutting the ballooning benefits bill wasn't in his speech
1:43:51
I am shocked that this Prime Minister doesn't have defence, the economy, immigration or crime in his priorities
1:43:59
This is not serious. He is supposed to be leading our country, and I want the country to know we will do things differently
1:44:19
We believe in the dignity of work. They believe it's fine to live a life on benefits
1:44:26
We believe that prosperity comes from people and businesses. They believe it comes from government
1:44:33
We believe in a state that does the important things and does them well
1:44:37
They believe in more and more and more and more governments. It's the same old high-tax, high-spend labor
1:44:46
No common sense addicted to welfare drowning our country in debt choking our economy with taxes stifling every innovation with regulation Conference Enough is enough The country deserves better and we are going to give them better
1:45:24
Thank you. Do you know who else deserves better
1:45:41
Reform voters. Many of them are our people. We let them down, and we want them to come back home
1:45:51
They deserve better than reform politicians. A year ago, those politicians were measuring up the curtains for number 10
1:46:02
Now, some of them are measuring up the curtains for their prison cells
1:46:15
Let's go through their greatest hits. Their leader in Wales was sent to prison for taking bribes from Russia
1:46:24
His successor then had to stand down after he was arrested last month
1:46:30
The police are investigating not just Robert Jenrick's donations, but Richard Tice's company as well
1:46:37
Farage's fishy five million personal gift. Has anyone here ever received a five million pound gift
1:46:47
I haven't. The brown envelopes they boasted about on camera. Just when you think reform couldn't get any weirder
1:46:59
there's a convicted fraudster who calls himself Posh George and calls Nigel Farage Daddy
1:47:17
The circus goes on and on and it will never stop because this is who reform politicians are
1:47:25
So to those who say unite the right, we are not uniting with that
1:47:47
People deserve better. They deserve better. People deserve better than that
1:48:05
And we are going to give them better than that. Character, conduct and standards matter
1:48:13
I don't want to live in a country run by people who threaten journalists
1:48:17
who call veterans traitors and debate whether my mixed-race children are English
1:48:24
I don't want to explain to my son, when we're watching our brilliant England team play football
1:48:30
that some people don't think our black players are English. I remember back in the day when Ian Wright and John Barnes were playing
1:48:38
nobody was questioning whether they were English. We certainly didn't have sitting MPs questioning whether they were English
1:48:45
We must not let these people take us backwards. That is not the country we are
1:48:50
Reform MPs are openly questioning people's identity. They are not like us
1:48:55
We are not like them. We are different. We are the Conservative Party
1:49:15
Thank you
1:49:45
We say he's British. We are still that same party. I don't know whether you've noticed, but I am black
1:49:53
I am British. I am proud of my country. I'm proud of our history
1:49:58
All that we have done and all that we will do in the world, our best days are not behind us
1:50:03
And we will not let this country go backwards. Thank you
1:50:45
identity. Shame on the Green Party and shame on Zach Polanski. Exactly three years ago today, we saw the horrific 7th of October attacks, the worst
1:51:08
slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust. The Conservative Party stands with the Jewish
1:51:14
people. We will never stop fighting anti-Semitism. Thank you
1:51:47
world from changing. They are so wrong. The world is constantly changing. New technologies
1:51:54
new challenges, new opportunities. It is only by adapting that we can preserve the very best
1:52:00
of this country and hand something better on to the next generation. That is what being
1:52:05
a conservative means. Andy Burnham says that we all just need to hope again. Hope is not
1:52:13
a strategy. And friends the last thing this country needs is a Paddington Bear Prime Minister hoping that the problems will just go away while Putin attacks our allies while our economy flatlines
1:52:35
Burnham wants to turn the clock back to the 1970s. Nostalgia is not a plan for our country
1:52:41
Andy Burnham is promising a better yesterday. What I am promising is a better tomorrow
1:52:54
Thank you. Conference, the fundamental problem we have right now
1:53:04
is that our country is running out of money. Almost every other problem flows from this
1:53:13
Our national debt currently stands at nearly £3 trillion, and we are adding more than £100 billion every year
1:53:22
Every year. Last year, four in every five pounds borrowed by the government was spent on debt interest alone
1:53:32
That's like taking out a second mortgage just to pay the interest on your first mortgage
1:53:39
This is crazy. Unless we start creating more value, unless we start growing our economy, something is going to break
1:53:47
That is why growing the economy will be the central organizing principle of the next conservative government
1:54:06
We know that a stronger country is built on a stronger economy
1:54:12
The two go hand in hand. There is no national security without economic security
1:54:18
And there is no economic security without national security. We cannot have one without the other
1:54:26
Labour don't understand this. They see no need to fix the public finances
1:54:36
I'm not even sure they know what is going wrong. Because if they did, they would be making tough decisions to bring spending down
1:54:45
Instead, they're making lots of promises. Promises need to be paid for
1:54:50
More government costs more money. It means higher taxes and higher borrowing
1:54:57
Higher taxes and higher borrowing that will weaken business, weaken investment, weaken hiring, and then that will lower growth
1:55:05
Then what will they do? They'll put up your taxes again. This is the tax doom loop that is making us all poorer
1:55:11
Round and round we go. That is the wrong way. Conference, let me show you the right way
1:55:27
The right way starts by living within our means. Every family and every business knows this
1:55:34
but Labour's choices are adding 260 billion to the national debt. Our children will already inherit a more dangerous world
1:55:45
They should not inherit our debts as well. Every politician is tempted to spend money on something popular
1:55:53
instead of cutting the deficit. So last year I announced our golden economic rule
1:55:59
to impose self-discipline. For every pound we save, 50 pence will go towards cutting the deficit
1:56:08
We have already identified over £70 billion of savings. That means we will cut the deficit we inherit from Labour by more than £35 billion
1:56:21
pounds. Restoring confidence in public finances is essential to economic growth. But it's not
1:56:37
just about that. It's about building up protection for a rainy day, leaving less of a mess for our
1:56:43
children. That is the right way. As conservatives, we know that it's businesses that create growth
1:56:54
but they are being held back in so many ways. Anyone who has ever worked in a business
1:57:00
knows exactly what I mean. It's our planning system. It's our tax system. It's our energy
1:57:07
system. Less than one in four major planning applications is decided on time. In 1976
1:57:16
our tax handbook was 1,600 pages long. They are now 23,000 pages. That is all seven Harry Potter
1:57:27
novels, the Bible, and the complete works of Shakespeare combined four times over. No wonder
1:57:36
our economy isn't growing. So we are going to do things differently. I've got a plan to get Britain
1:57:52
growing again, the kind of growth that you can actually see and feel. Rachel Rees talked about
1:58:00
growth hundreds of times. She had no idea what it meant. Let me tell you what growth looks like
1:58:08
It looks like a pensioner doing their food shopping and realizing they can afford a little
1:58:14
bit more because lower energy prices mean cheaper food. Because they feel richer, they decide to go
1:58:22
out, meet their family at a new cafe or a new restaurant or pub that's opened up and there will
1:58:27
be more of them because we've scrapped business rates for most of the high street
1:58:39
Over a coffee, they'll hear from their granddaughter, who has just got a loan to start and grow
1:58:45
her business because our banking reforms have released up to £450 billion of capital to
1:58:54
every corner of our country. They'll hear from their grandson who's buying his first home
1:59:00
a home which costs less because we scrapped regulations that drive up building costs
1:59:05
and abolished stamp duty. That is what growth looks like. Growth looks like graduates choosing between jobs instead
1:59:24
of choosing between job centres. There'll be construction jobs because we'll have scrapped
1:59:29
obscure rules like the Aarhus Convention. How many of you have heard about that? That's
1:59:35
what activists use to block development. When we are in charge, no one from natural England
1:59:41
will turn up with a clipboard to count all the bats and newts. It's time for us to build
1:59:46
new nuclear and not worry about whether the fish can have discos
1:59:54
Thank you. And, yes, it's time to finally build that third runway at Heathrow
2:00:16
Last week, Andy Burnham said Heathrow expansion was a matter for London
2:00:23
No, Prime Minister, you are not the mayor of Manchester anymore. The future of our country's busiest airport is not a regional matter
2:00:32
It is a matter for you. So stop faffing about and let's get this runway built
2:00:47
Conference, you can't have growth without cheap energy. Energy is growth. Countries that have expensive energy are poor
2:00:57
and Britain's energy is pretty much the most expensive in the world
2:01:02
Climate change is real, but importing oil and gas from countries that drill it in a dirtier fashion
2:01:09
that actually increases our emissions. People in Aberdeen told me that their city is dying
2:01:16
The government's energy policy is killing Aberdeen. No more. We will drill in the North Sea, increase our tax revenues and drive down energy prices
2:01:26
We need oil and gas. We need renewables. We need nuclear. We will build new small modular reactors because our mission is for cheap, clean, abundant energy
2:01:51
Living within our means, delivering cheaper energy. This is how we grow our economy
2:01:58
But it's not all. You know what else we need to do? Create jobs
2:02:03
I finished my engineering degree in 2003. And I remember what it was like graduating from university at that time
2:02:11
My friends and I didn't have to worry about getting a job. We were debating which jobs to take
2:02:18
Should we move to London? Should we stay nearer our families? Should we take a more boring job that paid a lot of money
2:02:24
Or something more exciting that didn't pay quite so much? Those were our options
2:02:30
That is not true for young people today. This is the first time in 26 years that youth
2:02:38
unemployment in the UK is higher than the EU average. Young people are leaving university
2:02:46
into the worst graduate recruitment market on record. With a mountain of debt, they can't find a job, they can't buy a house
2:02:54
Conference, young people need our help and we are going to help them
2:02:58
Let's start by cutting the interest on some of those student loans. Instead of putting them on benefits, we will help young people get a job
2:03:06
And the way to get jobs is not to move government to Manchester, it's to move government out of the way so that businesses can create jobs
2:03:16
Thank you
2:03:41
That's why we will scrap every job-killing measure in Labour's Employment Rights Act
2:03:53
And, Conference, because of Labour's jobs tax, in the two years of this Labour government, just two years
2:04:01
youth unemployment has increased by 174,000. so we will cut the jobs tax in half for under 25
2:04:11
That is how you get young people into work, by making it easier to hire them
2:04:15
That is the right way. Thank you. We don't just need to create jobs
2:04:40
We need to fill them with British workers instead of relying on immigration
2:04:47
Our welfare system is broken. We spend more on benefits than we raise in income tax
2:04:54
And we are incentivizing low-value immigration to our country. We need to put the fair back in welfare
2:05:04
We need tough love. It is morally wrong to tell people, suffering bouts of mild anxiety, that they are disabled and cannot work
2:05:16
That's why Shadow Welfare Secretary Helen Waitley will build a new welfare system where everyone who can work will work
2:05:34
If you don't find a job within six months, you'll get a back-to-work card
2:05:39
which you can only use to buy what you really need. No alcohol, no cigarettes, no gambling
2:05:47
Some say you shouldn't tell people how to spend their money. I say it's not their money, it's taxpayers' money
2:06:04
There will also be no out-of-work benefits straight out of school or university
2:06:10
If you haven't paid in, you shouldn't be taking out. Instead, we'll put you on a get-to-work program
2:06:16
Conservatives don't believe in a something-for-nothing culture. The best welfare is a well-paying job
2:06:23
Thank you
2:06:54
We have no hospitals. We have no schools. We have a heap of cinders
2:07:00
Do you know who said that first? A Labour Chancellor called Healy
2:07:05
Dennis Healy in 1969. His Labour Party never questioned the need to spend money on defence
2:07:12
Dennis Healy, like so many others of his generation, fought in the Second World War
2:07:18
They knew the terror of war. They understood the folly of appeasement
2:07:23
What a contrast with our current Prime Minister who said that national security can come at the expense of social security The era of peace is over
2:07:36
Britain today can no longer coast. Every age must fight its own battles
2:07:43
If we want peace, we must prepare for war. Conservatives have a fully funded plan to get to 3% on defence by 2030
2:08:05
We're the only ones who do. And let's be honest, if Russia sends a missile to hit Manchester
2:08:12
two-pound bus fares are not going to save us. so that's why yesterday shadow defense secretary james cartilage announced our plan
2:08:30
for a new national missile and drone defense system britannia shield We need to keep people safe
2:08:49
When you watch your child walk out the front door, you worry, but you trust they will come home again
2:08:58
Every parent knows that fear. This year, I have been meeting the parents
2:09:04
of those children who didn't come back home. The family of Henry Novak, 18 years old
2:09:14
handcuffed by the police in his dying moments as his murderer stood over him, accusing him of racism
2:09:22
The lack of common sense and compassion shown to Henry in his final moments
2:09:27
was a shocking failure by the state. I met the parents of Barnaby Webber and Grace O'Malley Kumar
2:09:38
Grace's father, Sandroy, is sitting here today. Their children... Their children were butchered in Nottingham, along with Ian Coates, by a psychopath that
2:10:25
authorities had multiple opportunities to stop, but didn't because they were afraid to. These are
2:10:32
different kinds of failure, but in each case, institutions that were meant to protect people
2:10:38
failed. It is devastating for families, and it keeps happening again and again and again. It's
2:10:46
not just Henry. It's not just Grace or Barnaby. It's those little girls who were killed in Southport
2:10:51
It's the Manchester Arena bombing. When a child dies, a family is changed forever
2:10:59
When that death might have been prevented, the pain is almost impossible to comprehend
2:11:06
No mother or father should have to carry that question for the rest of their life
2:11:11
There has to be proper accountability for those who are responsible. We have to do better
2:11:21
We have to do better, Conference, and I promise that we will do better
2:11:36
Earlier this year in Middlesbrough, we saw lawless gangs terrorising their neighbours
2:11:42
and police officers killed by cars on the rampage down the A66
2:11:47
This is what happens when there is a collapse in consequences, when criminals believe they can get away with crime
2:11:55
We need to make sure that criminals face the full force of the law
2:12:09
Under Labour's early release scheme, paedophiles, killers and rapists were going to be let out early
2:12:17
It was only after so many of us campaigned with victims that the government finally U-turned on their plan to release criminals like PC Andrew Harper's killers
2:12:30
Champagne socialists, people who have never had to live amongst dangerous criminals, think it is fashionable to say that there should be fewer people in prison
2:12:39
It's not about fewer people in prison. I want to see more criminals in prison
2:12:47
And so that is why the next Conservative government will undertake the largest prison building program in modern history
2:13:04
50,000 new prison places. And with this extra capacity, we won't just be able to end Labour's early release schemes
2:13:17
once and for all, we will be able to introduce tougher minimum sentences for the worst crimes
2:13:24
Punishment which fits the crime. Real consequences. Criminals behind bars and communities feeling safe again
2:13:33
That is the Britain we will build. That is the right way
2:13:47
Some people talk as if the public sector are the enemy
2:14:05
They are not. There are real jobs in the public sector, adding value to society
2:14:12
doctors helping people get better, Soldiers keeping our country safe. Badass teachers like Catherine Burblesing
2:14:20
fighting to give disadvantaged children a better education. Conference, these are our people too
2:14:32
And we will always back them. They are being let down by a system
2:14:36
that tries to stop them using their common sense. No more. We are going to give them back their freedom
2:14:42
so they can do their jobs. That is the right way. Conservatives believe that we need to strip out the politics which has crept into our schools and put academic standards first
2:15:09
Everyone in this hall knows my views about Bridget Philipson. Let me move on
2:15:17
Let me move on to her successor. Do you know what Lucy Powell, the education secretary, said
2:15:26
She said there is an overfocus on academic outcomes in schools. That is what schools are for
2:15:44
It's like saying there's an overfocus on air in breathing. We want children to grow up and fulfill their potential
2:15:54
What sets us apart from every other party is that we believe in the potential of human endeavor to create great things
2:16:03
We trust that if you give people the tools to succeed, whether that's an academic or vocational education
2:16:10
they will find the best way to use them. Conference, do you know what else we trust people with
2:16:17
Their own money. For the last few days, everybody's been asking me about inheritance tax
2:16:32
So let's talk about it. We are not abolishing inheritance tax at this conference
2:16:40
I know you're disappointed. We could do it. We could do it. But not if we want to keep our country safe with a Britannia shield
2:16:48
Not if we also want to keep people safe with 50,000 new prison places
2:16:55
Not if we want to cut the deficit, threatening to bankrupt our country and burdening our children
2:17:03
Governing is about choices, tough choices. And Conservatives will not announce a tax cut without telling you how we are going to pay for it
2:17:18
But just because I can't give you everything you want
2:17:29
doesn't mean I can't give you anything you want. The Labour Party think it is selfish
2:17:37
to pass on what you have earned to your children. We don't
2:17:48
If Labour understood why this mattered, they wouldn't have introduced a family farms tax which drove some farmers to take their own lives
2:17:59
Inheritance tax was supposed to be a tax on the super wealthy
2:18:04
Those people have all gone. Or they've moved their money offshore and avoid the tax altogether
2:18:13
Instead, it is now a tax on ordinary middle-class families in every corner of our country
2:18:22
So let's go back to first principles. What is the thing that most people want to pass on to their children and grandchildren
2:18:29
It is their family home. Conference, the Conservatives are and always have been the party of home ownership
2:18:39
We understand why putting roots down and having a stake in society matters
2:18:45
Our homes are where we watch our children take their first steps
2:18:49
They are where we gather every Christmas to put up the same decorations
2:18:55
Passing on your home to your family is one of the most human instincts of all
2:19:01
So, conference, the next Conservative government will legislate so nobody will ever pay inheritance tax on their family home
2:19:35
Thank you
2:20:05
an additional £1 million tax-free. And these changes... APPLAUSE These changes mean every inheritance tax bill will be cut
2:20:25
and the number of families paying inheritance tax will fall by more than half. APPLAUSE
2:20:35
Thank you
2:21:05
I believe the people who work hard and save should be rewarded for that effort
2:21:13
So, conference, this is my guarantee. No stamp duty when you buy your home, no mansion tax when you live in your home
2:21:21
and no inheritance tax on your home when you pass it to your children or grandchildren
2:21:27
That is what the next conservative government will deliver. Thank you
2:22:05
you will be better off under a conservative government. If you run a business
2:22:12
you will get government out of your way and cut your taxes
2:22:16
If you are a parent, you will make sure free childcare is never removed
2:22:21
because of a pay rise. If you want to own your home, we will scrap stamp duty and make houses cheaper to build If you a woman who knows biological sex is real like the Darlington nurses do we will protect your privacy If you are a police officer who puts
2:22:38
your life on the line like Sergeant Martin Blake did, we will back you. If you're a mother in a
2:22:44
village threatened with a migrant camp like in Pittington and you want your children to feel
2:22:48
safe, we will deport illegal immigrants, not house them. If you are worried about the threat
2:22:57
of Russia or Iran, we will keep Britain safe. If you're leaving school, we'll let you choose
2:23:03
between work, university, or a high-quality apprenticeship. If you're a graduate paying
2:23:08
over and above for your student loan, we will end the interest rate rip-off. If you are
2:23:12
a farmer, we will end the Farmery Farms Tax. If you are a veteran, we will protect you from
2:23:20
malicious prosecution. If you are a victim of crime, the perpetrators will be locked up
2:23:27
If you are on welfare, we will get you into work. If you're under 25, we will make it easier for you
2:23:33
to get a job. If you have retired, we will protect your pension. And if you want to pass on your home
2:23:39
to your family. We will make sure you don't pay a penny in tax. We have something for everyone
2:24:09
Everyone will benefit from a growing economy, safer streets and secure borders under the Conservatives
2:24:30
Conference, I told you that a fight was coming. every day the choice at the next election is becoming clearer it will be between a Labour
2:24:43
Party which takes more of your money or a Conservative Party which lets you keep more
2:24:49
of what you earn a Labour Party which says government has all the answers or a Conservative
2:24:56
Party which lets you decide I am optimistic because we have learned from our mistakes
2:25:02
we are going the right way. We are ready to fight for our values
2:25:08
ready to win the argument, ready to govern, ready to get Britain working again
2:25:32
I don't want to jinx anything, but I think it's over
2:25:51
Yeah. Yeah, husband on stage hugging. I think that must be... Good grief
2:25:59
I think we should have all gone to the gym with Garen, shouldn't we? I think he had the right idea
2:26:03
I like the stuff about reform, let me be clear. But I think it's easy to underestimate how powerful that speech was
2:26:15
In 1863, at a military cemetery in Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln redefined the American Civil War
2:26:24
as a struggle for human equality. in 1940 Winston Churchill vowed we shall fight them on the beaches in 1963 Martin Luther King
2:26:37
had a dream a dream that involved the end of racism and civil and economic rights for everybody
2:26:46
in the United States and in 2026 Kemi Badenok announced that she was the leader
2:26:54
of the No Nonsense Party. Four speeches at four very different points in history
2:27:05
three of which were epochal and incredible, and one of which was absolutely awful
2:27:13
What are we going to do? Are we going to take a break, or are we going to get Simon on, or are we going to sit here marvelling at what we just heard
2:27:19
My favourite bit, probably the announcement that they would never be engaging in unfunded tax cuts
2:27:24
and then making a succession of announcements that looked from pretty much every imaginable angle
2:27:29
like unfunded tax cuts. James O'Brien on LBC. It started late and it went on forever
2:27:37
That's probably all I can say about that speech. And of course it's robbed us of a number of things
2:27:41
including the ability to properly yse it and also scheduled, obviously, today
2:27:48
would be a commemoration of the events on this day three years ago in Israel
2:27:54
I'm relieved in a way to hear Sheila trailing her show there
2:27:59
and explaining that she would be covering that. I didn't want to do a debate today
2:28:05
A very personal position. It's a day for reflection and commemoration, not to relitigate or raise any of the attendant issues
2:28:15
It's a day just to remember the absolute horror of that day three years ago and not to qualify it with any yes buts or and also
2:28:24
So that's just my view. And I hope that makes clear that and the fact that Kemi Bader not took up about 50 percent of my show unexpectedly
2:28:31
The position we've taken today. I don't know what to say about that
2:28:38
Do you? I have absolutely no idea what to say about that speech
2:28:42
that extraordinary potpourri of nonsense. I'll tell you what I wrote this morning
2:28:49
about what she would announce. I wrote this morning, more deregulation, more fossil fuels
2:28:53
more demonizing of welfare claimants, more tax cuts for the comfortable, more promises to obliterate immigration
2:28:58
et cetera, et cetera. And there we are. That's pretty much what happened
2:29:05
So one thing, actually, before we talk to Simon Marks, because I can forgive Kami Bader
2:29:11
not many things, but I couldn't forgive her for curtailing Simon Marks' contributions to this program
2:29:15
Krishnan Gurumarthi, another brilliant journalist, interviewed one of them the other night
2:29:20
I forget which one. And he just came back off the back of a big long spiel
2:29:25
I think it was Helen Waitley. And he came back with a single question
2:29:30
that I think underpins pretty much every thought I had during that speech
2:29:38
except for the bit when she went after the racism of Suella Braverman. and the hideousness of many of her colleagues in Reform UK
2:29:46
And I was gratified by the response that got in the conference hall, but, I mean, the rest of it
2:29:52
Unbelievable. But this is Krishnan on Channel 4 News, essentially, essentially, completing..
2:29:59
journalism if journalism was a video game if political journalism was a video game
2:30:04
and this level was about yzing cammy badenock's conservative party then this is what it sounds like
2:30:12
when somebody completes the level finishes off the boss and then just throws their controller
2:30:18
into the air but how long do you think it's going to take for people to forget that you ran the
2:30:22
country for 14 years and that is the thought that ran through that entire speech in the back of my
2:30:28
mind every single thing she said almost all of the things she mentioned happened on their watch
2:30:32
it's bizarre thank goodness simon marks is here simon um where do you want to start well i think
2:30:37
we should start with uh the midterms james which are now less than a month away and the gathering
2:30:43
evidence that president donald trump is absolutely planning some kind of jiggery pokery he spoke
2:30:49
yesterday in maryland and breathed new life into the suggestion that he's not going to accept the
2:30:56
outcome of any election that the Republicans lose. And he specifically cited in his speech
2:31:05
a member of his government, Russ Vogt, the head of the Office of Management and Budget
2:31:11
who is really one of the chief strategists, one of the authors behind Project 2025
2:31:17
and one of the chief strategists behind Donald Trump's entire MAGA project. And just take
2:31:25
a listen to what Donald Trump said yesterday in Maryland when he mentioned Mr. Vogt
2:31:29
Director of the Office of Management and Budget, Russ Vogt, who is fantastic. He's done a job. We
2:31:35
have some big surprises coming up in another few weeks, right, Russ? He's going to be one of the
2:31:41
very important people in the history of our country, in my opinion. He's got some great
2:31:47
things happening So something in the pipeline says President Trump suggesting that he is not as the Financial Times Ed Luce has suggested in recent days in fact serenely
2:31:59
indifferent to the outcome of these elections. What might be in the pipeline? Well
2:32:05
last night on Real America's Voice TV, Trump-leaning web outfit, Ed Martin, a former
2:32:13
acting US attorney who defended the January 6th rioters and calls himself Eagle Ed, made an appearance and cited a visit that took place yesterday to the
2:32:24
White House by a convicted election denier, a woman called Tina Peters. Take a listen
2:32:32
Tina Peters, you know, from Colorado, was in the Oval Office meeting with the president on
2:32:36
election integrity, and they were talking about the plans. And the one thing that they know is
2:32:40
that Secretary Mullen of the Department of Homeland Security came out in late August and
2:32:46
conceded and said as a matter of law, a finding that there is the machines for voting, the election
2:32:53
voting machines use parts from China and Russia and foreign places and are therefore compromised
2:32:59
That's what Mullen said. It is a local election. I ran the election board in St. Louis. There is
2:33:04
local control. However, the laws that govern the system like safety and national security
2:33:09
are federal laws. And so when Tina Peters, you know, famous Colorado clerk was in the Oval Office
2:33:15
today, just two hours ago, talking about this question. The president's going to have to do
2:33:19
what he's going to do. And it is not a local issue when it's national security. And it's clearly
2:33:25
national security. So they are building the case for Trump to use the Insurrection Act
2:33:31
to put troops on the streets, to order his Secretary of Homeland Security, Mark Wayne
2:33:36
Mullen to seize election machines all over the country Same machines that were used when he won the last election Yes audit them see if they contain parts that have been provided by China or Russia I going to keep saying the same machines that were used when he won the last election
2:33:51
This is the beginning of what could... Do you really think so? Well, he's clearly being urged to do this by these people
2:33:58
And also, James, important to underscore, if you were going to engage in a fair, free and honest election
2:34:06
you almost certainly would abide by historical precedent and allow election monitors from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe
2:34:14
to travel to the United States to observe the poll. They've been there every year since 2002
2:34:21
They've observed 12 rounds of elections in the United States, including six sets of midterms
2:34:26
They were there in the 2018 midterms during Donald Trump's first term in office
2:34:31
They were there for the 2024 presidential election. when he beat Kamala Harris
2:34:37
This time around, suddenly, they are not allowing the Organisation for Security
2:34:41
and Cooperation monitors into the country. It's a big deal. Yeah, I know it is
2:34:47
But we sit here, and you've been really good at this from quite a long, long time ago
2:34:52
And we think it's possible, and then something kicks in, doesn't it
2:34:57
And we start trying to talk ourselves out of it. But the evidence mounts
2:35:01
The evidence mounts. And the idea that there is certainly an appetite
2:35:05
for complete corruption is there, and the fact that they're banning the international observers
2:35:10
who are there to ensure that there isn't misbehaviour adds to that weight of evidence
2:35:17
Even if nothing happens, even if the election takes place and he does recognise the results of what looks increasingly
2:35:24
like a significant Democratic Party victory, certainly in the House of Representatives
2:35:28
and possibly now also in the US Senate, by barring these OSCE election monitors He is stripping his own government and arguably successive American governments of their ability to criticise elections in other countries
2:35:46
that are blatantly unfree and unfair. How can you accuse Russia, for example
2:35:51
of rigging an election in Vladimir Putin's favour? Russia and Belarus are the only other countries that..
2:35:56
Or barring OSCE monitors from monitoring the polls if you yourself have done exactly the same thing
2:36:03
What a time to be alive. I don't know whether we'll look back on today
2:36:08
two things really, whether we'll look back on today and think that that was the worst ever
2:36:12
party conference speech by a leader that we've witnessed, including the one when Theresa May's bits
2:36:16
started falling over. What's the worst? That, that you just heard. Oh, what was the worst
2:36:20
What's worse than that? Oh my God, I've heard loads worse than that. Really
2:36:24
Yeah. Okay, there you go. Or we'll look back on what Simon Marks had to say
2:36:29
and think, why weren't we paying more attention? Why weren't we manning the barricades? Not literally, because that's what the other lot
2:36:34
are more likely to do. But that is it from me for today. Remember, she's the captain, the coach
2:36:39
and indeed the owner of the team. So it's all on her
2:36:44
If you missed any of today's show, you can listen back on our free Global Player app
2:36:48
or the LBC app, where you can also stay up to date with all the latest news, videos, and opinions
2:36:51
You can listen to a range of podcasts, including James O'Brien daily, the best bits from my show every day
2:36:56
Download the official LBC app for free from your app store now. Coming up at four on LBC, it's Tom Swarbrick
2:37:02
But now it's... Here you go. Here's another one. Jo says, will you shut up? Hurry up and get off the air
2:37:07
You're an idiot. Cammy's speech was fantastic. Was that from you? No, it wasn't from me
2:37:11
And she would never say such terrible things. She would thank you to it with you now. Sorry, I'll grant you the bit about..
2:37:17
When she talked about Brexit. Imagine re-running those arguments she said. I'm like, no, don't even go there, love
2:37:22
Don't even go there. But anyway. James O'Brien on LBC. you
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