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Kemi feels sorry for people inheriting properties worth millions | James O'Brien - The Whole Show
Oct 9, 2026
This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 8th of October 2026.
0:00 | To whom is Kemi Badenoch appealing?
0:47:02 | Have major events such as Brexit, lockdown and recent wars affected the nation's mental health?
1:37:40 | Mystery Hour
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
it's three minutes after ten and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC where there is still a
0:08
degree of unhappiness regarding can we be paid to not speak yesterday because it meant that I
0:15
couldn't share with you my top tips for getting rid of fruit flies hopefully I will remember to
0:20
do that today mystery hour on the way at 12 as well so there are at least two moments one rather
0:25
longer than the other of light relief on the horizon. I sometimes worry that I'm a little bit more anorak-y than you are
0:34
And then I sort of read some of your messages and I realise that I can't generalise, you know
0:40
But also I realise that you might be more anorak-y than I am. And of course if I am anorak-y about something
0:46
then, you know, my job is to make you interested in it
0:50
more interested in it than you thought you might be. I don't think I could rise to that challenge yesterday
0:54
as we listened to the speech. But I do think that there was one element of it
1:00
that we should celebrate a heck of a lot more. We didn't really have time to do so yesterday
1:04
And we will do that shortly. But I was reading one piece this morning
1:08
that suggested not long ago there was quite a strong case to be made
1:14
that the next generation of British politics would be dominated by the Liberal Democrats and Reform UK
1:19
as if the two-party system, The traditional Labour conservative stranglehold, really, upon British democracy for pretty much 100 years was was breakable
1:35
And I kind of wondered yesterday watching Cammie Bader. And I appreciate you probably didn't stick around for the speech or if you did
1:43
you probably share my view that it was a great big nothing burger really with a couple of weird
1:49
moments very very weird moments and and great news for anybody set to inherit a house worth more than
1:56
a million pounds i i still going over the detail of it in my head if you if you are set to inherit
2:03
a house worth 10 million pounds cami badenard just gave you a massive tax cut about 20 percent of
2:10
working age adults in this country live in poverty. But if you're about to inhabit a house worth 10 million pounds
2:17
Camille Bader not just ensured that none of that will go back into the Treasury. You can keep it all
2:21
And if you are about to inherit a house worth more than 10 million pounds
2:26
then I suspect you were probably more likely to vote Conservative than Labour in the first place
2:33
Well, I don't know. We had some wonderful calls yesterday who recognised..
2:38
I don't know, the patriotic power of inheritance tax, the sort of moral purity of people who end their lives on top of the pile
2:50
contributing a fair old chunk of change to ensure that everybody below them in the pile
2:55
can have some improvements to their existence. But I, I mean, I wake up on mornings like this
3:03
I said this yesterday. It's a little bit Groundhog Day. I wake up on mornings like this
3:08
and I wonder whether I've gone mad not just the speech you don't have to have seen the speech
3:14
to feel what I'm feeling or to contribute to the conversation that I'm keen to have you
3:21
you see what I see right you live in the world that I inhabit
3:25
you breathe the air that I breathe and the current leader of the Conservative Party
3:29
is an absolute liability and she is hilariously bad and yet I open up
3:35
And I know, I know, I know they're the newspapers that told us Brexit was going to be brilliant
3:40
I know they are the newspapers that told us Boris Johnson was going to be brilliant
3:44
I know it's the same commentators that told us Liz Truss was an economic genius
3:48
that Donald Trump would be a doughty and decent ally to this country
3:53
I know, I know, I know better than anybody. I've written books about it. But it never stops being shocking, does it, when they embark upon their next project
4:02
What are they going to do next? they're going to pretend that Kimi Baden-Ock
4:06
is the real deal. Have they learned nothing from giving us trusts
4:13
and giving us Johnson, giving us governments that put people like oh dear, oh dear
4:20
So I think it's healthy. Do you think it's healthy? Is it healthy
4:25
to still think that maybe you're the one that's gone mad rather than everybody else
4:29
It's healthy, right? It's all well, right? Even if you are the only one
4:35
You've got to hold on to the... Even if you are the only one. Kemi's family home pledge
4:40
It's 4.7% of estates that are eligible for inheritance tax. A front page of the Daily Mail makes everybody think it's them
4:49
4.7% of estates currently eligible for it. And Kemi's looked at the economic situation in this country
4:56
and said to himself, I'll tell you who I really feel sorry for. I really feel sorry for people who are inheriting
5:02
multi-million pound properties. Who really needs help in this country at the moment
5:07
I'll tell you who really needs help in this country at the moment. People poised to inherit multi-million pound properties
5:14
The top story from that speech yesterday. I know that they're trying to dress it up
5:18
as good news for you and good news for me, but unless you are poised to inherit one day a multi..
5:23
I'm going to say that a lot today, aren't I? I can tell by the way my mouth is shaping around the words
5:28
a multi-million pound property. Unless you are one of the vanishingly small number of people in this country
5:37
and remember, it's an estate, so there'll be more than one person inheriting per estate
5:43
Some estates, there'll be nobody inheriting. Other estates, there might be ten people, grandchildren, children
5:49
Unless you are poised to inherit a multi-million pound property, This has nothing to do with you
6:00
I mean, literally nothing to do with you. If the family home is worth a million quid or less
6:05
and mum and dad were still together when one of them passed away, or half a million quid if they're on their own
6:11
but you get two then, you know, mum and dad could both be leaving you different properties
6:16
Unless you're in that extraordinarily rarefied situation, that the announcement had absolutely nothing to do with you
6:29
And I think people, I don't actually know what's happening. I think it's important that I admit that to you sometimes
6:37
The number of messages I got yesterday from people saying, I had no idea that I was never going to be eligible for this
6:44
In a million years, I thought it was on all houses, or I thought it was on much, much lower thresholds
6:49
or I thought I was going to be affected by it. I'm still getting those messages now. Here's one from Nathan
6:55
Why are you banging on about multi-million pound houses? That's completely misleading and not what she said
7:00
Mate, I promise you, that's all she said. The threshold at the moment for a couple that are still together
7:06
when the first one passes away is a million pounds. So the only people affected by this are people set to inherit
7:14
either properties worth in excess of a million pounds or if you're talking about one parent because they've split up
7:20
is worth in excess of half a million pounds. And yet you swallowed it hook line and sinker What do you think Nathan Do you think it about you this You think that a million inheritance they the people that really need protecting
7:35
So, listen, we're not till we did inheritance tax yesterday, and it was a brilliant phone-in, actually
7:39
if you missed it. Go back to it. Although I think Tom Swalbrick may have been slightly misrepresented
7:43
by one caller. I complimented him after the programme on the charming
7:46
caller who had said, Tom Swalbrick had changed my mind about inheritance tax. I checked
7:50
in with Tom Swalbrick after the show yesterday, and he He had very different views on inheritance tax from the ones that my caller had attributed to him
7:58
But I don't know. Make of that what you will. The mystery for me, and listen, I want to tell you something
8:06
I don't know whether it will surprise you or not. I want a healthy conservative party in this country
8:13
I want a healthy conservative party. I quite like, and I know that there are reasons to attack this position
8:23
But I quite like our two-party system. I can see the appeal of electoral reform
8:29
But listen, nobody's perfect. I'm a bit of a stick in the mud. Sometimes I subscribe a little bit too heartily to the if it ain't broke, don't fix it school of thought
8:37
I can see myself shifting on electoral reform. We had a wonderful call, didn't we, from a young man when we talked about it
8:43
I've temporarily forgotten his name. But I said I was going to give him a name check every time we talked about electoral reform
8:48
Because he was really bringing it alive for me. He was really bringing it, a sense of urgency to the table
8:56
And yet it's still not landed with me yet. I've got a feeling that it will if it becomes more alive politically
9:03
But it is reassuring, I think, that the two parties. Most things, most traditional things are a bit reassuring
9:13
Reassuring is a good word to use. and and so I want a party of opposition that is not populist or racist or any of those things I
9:23
want a party of opposition that is um competent there was one moment of the speech yesterday
9:30
where the um uh leader of the opposition was absolutely brilliant and I'm going to play it
9:39
to you because I think this is important but I don't know how important it is just have a listen
9:44
to this. This was unexpected and objectively magnificent. Once we dig into it, it may lose
9:50
some of its sheen. But at first glance, or at first hear, this was ace
9:56
I don't want to live in a country run by people who threaten journalists, who call veterans
10:01
traitors, and debate whether my mixed-race children are English. I don't want to explain
10:08
to my son, when we're watching our brilliant England team play football, that some people
10:13
don't think our black players are English. I remember back in the day when Ian Wright and
10:19
John Barnes were playing, nobody was questioning whether they were English. We certainly didn't
10:24
have sitting MPs questioning whether they were English. We must not let these people
10:29
take us backwards. That is not the country we are. Reform MPs are openly questioning
10:35
people's identity. They are not like us. We are not like them. We are different. We are
10:40
the Conservative Party. Quarter past ten is the time. I liked that, and it got a standing
10:48
ovation, which is why I'm confused today, and that's why the question
10:52
that I've got for you is, to whom is she appealing? And by that
10:56
I mean, who is she hoping to appeal to? And also, perhaps
11:00
who is she actually appealing to? That is, I think, a fascinating question, and it's
11:06
underpinned. I mean, she was a little bit wrong about the football, but that's, I mean
11:10
a forgivable... John Barnes and Ian Wright would have experienced terrible, terrible racism, and the far right
11:16
at the time were always banging on about people of colour not
11:20
able to be English. But she's right to point out it's moved a hell of a lot closer to the mainstream
11:24
in recent years, and particularly with Suela Braverman's hideous interventions in recent months
11:31
I've tried in the past to conduct this conversation, to confine this conversation
11:35
to callers who are actually the answer to the question. So, you know, is it you that she is appealing to
11:42
Give me a ring if you're a disaffected conservative. And is Kemi Bader not going to bring you back into the fold
11:49
But I can't lie. I think that's a pretty tough ask. And it's not necessarily as interesting as I used to think it was
11:59
The thing that's really interesting is the overview of exactly who is she talking to. 03456060973
12:11
if it's you then I'll probably in the first thing I'll probably put you to the front of the queue but
12:17
I think I'm going mad on days like today because I follow politics quite closely
12:24
I watch someone who is pretty rubbish but thinks that they are
12:28
brilliant and the evidence of them being pretty rubbish is absolutely immense you know
12:34
it's a quick google the nonsense about gaffes, the nonsense about McDonald's, the nonsense about Northern Ireland, the nonsense
12:40
about maternity leave, the nonsense about pretty much anything she's ever turned her
12:44
attention to. And yet the engines that brought you Brexit, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, austerity
12:50
they've bet their house on it now. They've kind of had to, as Farage's troubles mount
12:56
They're going all in on it. And I am... What's the word that I want
13:01
what's the word that I want? I'm kind of conscious of how effective it can be
13:09
when those engines, the people and the institutions that brought you Brexit, Boris Johnson
13:17
austerity, love for Donald Trump, Liz Truss, the same people, the same institutions
13:25
the same media figures, the same media outlets, they're going to try and do it again
13:30
They're going to try and persuade you to get behind this project, despite the fact that you can see what I can see
13:36
And I think, as the inventor of the phrase, content for the con, compassion for the con, I think that it might work
13:43
Because I've seen it work five times in the last 10 years, starting with Brexit and then hitting all those other marks as well
13:49
And it's bonkers. But that's Britain. That's Brexit Britain. So who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler
13:59
No, sorry, mental glitch. Who do you think Cammie Baden-Ock is appealing to
14:06
And there's two elements to that, trying to appeal to and actually appealing to
14:11
Because I don't know. The only people I can come up with would be people who perhaps are facing a two-horse race between right-wing parties in their home at the next general election
14:26
and they would possibly be tempted not to vote for either of them
14:31
but in order to keep one of them out, they might vote for the other. And that is why I think that the racism comments that she made were pretty strong
14:39
I hope she meant them, because I remember her defending Honest Bob Jenrick after he was complaining about there being too many black faces in Birmingham
14:46
and I think it's one of her MPs who's been chatting absolute nonsense about no-go zones in Luton
14:52
But I hope it's true. 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need Who is Kemi Badenok target audience Target audience
15:05
And I'll take a sort of nice opportunity to get stuck into a conversation here
15:11
because I'll take anything on this. And as I say, as I stress, I want, what's the word that I want
15:20
Not proper politics, but strong politics, good politics. We've had 10 years of nuttiness
15:27
Thought Keir Starmer was going to bring an end to it. He didn't really. Let's just have a look at who we think
15:32
Cammie Bader-Nock is appealing to and whether it will work. 0345 6060 973
15:40
James O'Brien on LBC. 21 minutes after 10. I'm more on the right than left
15:46
Obviously, I'm reading this out. It's from Phil. And I am currently politically homeless
15:51
The politicians collectively are morons. It pains me to say it, but Burnham is the only credible person at the moment, and it's too early to say if he has the credentials or ability yet
16:03
And then on the racism question, quite a few messages coming in. I'm not going to apologize for being a bit idealistic
16:10
I really hope that she meant it when she talked about the hideousness of suggestions that people like her or indeed her children can't be English
16:20
I really, really hope she meant it. But either way, whether she feels it in her bones or not, she said it and the whole cheered it
16:29
And just for a moment, you had a little glimpse of what the Conservative Party used to be and perhaps could be again, which is why the question becomes, who is the target here
16:40
Is it you? It's obviously not me, but who is it exactly
16:45
And, I mean, listen, everybody inheriting an estate in excess of a million pounds
16:51
was handed cash potentially yesterday in a future theoretical Bader Not government
16:56
But it's very odd to look at this country and think that the luckiest 4.7% of heirs and heiresses in it
17:03
are the ones most in need of a financial boost at the moment. 22 after 10 is the time
17:09
Laura is in Exeter. Laura, what would you like to say? I'm reflecting on
17:13
Kenny Baden-Ock's statement and I really found it interesting because for me it felt like she was speaking
17:19
to the people who were waving flags and saying that they're not racist but they can't tolerate
17:25
whatever X, Y and Z anymore the boats or whatever it is that they
17:29
might not be able to tolerate perhaps and I also think that she's also
17:33
distancing herself from the noise around an alliance between reform and She definitely did that
17:40
I mean, she made that absolutely crystal clear and she got a standing ovation for that bit
17:44
I thought, if we're going to go down that road, I thought that she was perhaps appealing more to the kind of people
17:50
who've got a lot of misgivings and reservations about the immigration situation that the Tories created
17:56
with regards to small boats and things, but who are repulsed by the sort of violence on our streets
18:02
and the masks and the sort of low-level fascism. So she was sort of saying you can have a cordon sanitaire between what people like to call legitimate concerns
18:14
Just don't mention the fact that it's all our fault and and the horrors that we're seeing on our streets at the moment
18:19
So it was an appeal to the ones who don't like what you've described. Right. And I think and I think I agree with I agree that to some extent
18:27
But for me, I mean, the implicit bias that people hold is is always there
18:33
And I think that for me also implicit bias is explicitly biased
18:38
because actually for us to be able to stand back and say, hold on a second, it's not my problem
18:43
And what I think I got from that was actually it's all of our problem. You know, we all live in this community and this society together
18:50
and it's up to all of us to stand shoulder to shoulder and not accept those things
18:54
So who's the mythical voter then? We had a wonderful caller last year, Tamara from Telford
18:59
who was kind of the Tory, the traditional Tory who'd been, if you like chased out of the party by the madness surrounding brexit and some of what followed most
19:08
obviously i suppose liz trust who is because i don't think you're describing yourself laura are
19:13
you or are you and i think can i just say i think to say i'm not describing myself puts me in a
19:20
position of of white white privilege doesn't it you know i mean i think that you know i take
19:27
ownership of this as much as everybody else in as much as you know i have white privilege but
19:32
that doesn't mean that i can stand back and say oh it's not me i think but there were already
19:38
parties to represent being repulsed by racism i mean but you know the the the the reason that
19:44
she's chosen to do this is that her party and reform will be fighting in some sense for the
19:49
for the same voters i mean it's not as if there's no political option for people who think that
19:54
racism is awful you you go to the Labour Party you go to the Liberal Democrats you go to others
19:58
so it's not that the reason the only reason I said it's not you is that I did I just didn't think
20:02
that you were one of the people that is likely to to vote conservative as a consequence of
20:08
Kemi Bader-Knox leadership not necessarily no that I I am I am a floating vote absolutely
20:15
um I don't I don't have a political stance um I'm at the moment I'm happy for Labour to be trying
20:24
to see what they can do to change. That's very, you know, very settled with that at the moment
20:29
But actually, I like the stance that she's taking. I like the fact that she's distancing herself
20:33
from people like Suella Braverman that have come out and said, actually, she's not English
20:37
Yeah, I do too. This is the problem I've got today, is I don't know who that's aimed at
20:42
because we both like it, but it's not aimed at us, is it
20:46
It's aimed at people who are... What? Because if you've gone over to reform
20:51
then you are not uncomfortable with what reforms stand for and what reform do
20:55
Is it possible that you were perfectly comfortable with the rhetoric of Robert Jenrick and Nigel Farage and 30p Lee on this kind of issue
21:04
But Suella Braverman went a little bit too far. So now Kemi Badenoch is saying, come home, come back
21:10
That seems to me to be a vanishingly small constituency. Or is it
21:15
I don't know. They made huge losses, didn't they, to reform. and I wonder if the idea is that actually what they're trying to say
21:22
is that we're not what you think we are. We're not that party
21:26
We are a party that will stand up for us making sure
21:30
that our borders are secure. She's made that stance too, hasn't she? They've been doing that forever
21:35
Yeah, sure, but what I'm saying is she's saying we will do that but also we won't tolerate what it is that reform are bringing
21:41
Yeah, and I think that's why I'm confused. I don't know where one stops and the other starts
21:46
but I wonder if it's those people who are conservative that felt like they had nowhere to go
21:50
that they weren't being supported maybe she's saying actually you know what you don't have to be that
21:54
so not the people being tempted further to the right it's the people who've been
21:58
it's the Tamaras in Telford and we never really got a proper bead on how many people Tamara in Telford spoke for
22:05
but the Tories the traditional Tories who have just felt unable to back them recently
22:10
because of all the madness whether it was Brexit or whether it was Liz Truss
22:14
or whether it was, you know, the consequences of the policies that they introduced over the course of 14 years
22:21
And she's just saying to them, come back. And it comes alongside something else you were talking about this morning which was the inheritance statement that she made yesterday Which again you know people who traditionally vote for the Tories have this kind of ideal world of their own that actually the Tories are looking out for them
22:43
They're looking after them. They're going to look after me. It's going to be OK. And what you're talking about is you're talking about people who believe in that too, right
22:49
People who've got a few quid. We need a party that will look after people who've got a few quid
22:54
Yeah, and actually a few quid isn't what they're looking after. They're looking after the kind of super few quid
22:59
But all you've got to do is persuade Muggins over there that it's really him who's going to benefit from this
23:04
as opposed to the people who are funding the think tanks or starting the television stations or owning the newspapers
23:11
and job is done. Yeah, I mean, I'm still confused, although that's a good thing
23:16
I don't want to achieve perfect clarity when we're only halfway into the programme
23:20
But I just don't know that these people exist. people who were kind of dispossessed Tories
23:28
not tempted by the excesses and the extremities of Nigel Farage's outfit
23:33
and somehow hoping because who were they going to vote for anyway
23:38
Nobody? Were you going to vote for nobody? It's just interesting to me
23:43
and I don't think in a radio show that we can unpick the psychology of a country
23:48
wherein somebody who is profoundly mediocre and extraordinarily gaffe-prone gets treated as if they are incredible
23:58
and obviously keeps insisting that they never make any gaffes. And you sit here
24:04
I've spent most of the last 10 years sitting here like a little boy, wondering why no one else has pointed out that the emperor hasn't got any clothes on
24:11
Did it with Brexit? Did it with Boris Johnson? Did it with Donald Trump
24:15
I didn't do it with Liz Truss. She wasn't around for long enough. But you sit here. And I know an awful lot of people feel the same
24:21
because you tell me when I bump into you and you send me messages saying the same thing
24:25
But we've sat here now for what? For 10 years. Watching a succession of naked emperors walk by
24:33
And we have sat here going, and we're in a minority. This is the weirdest thing in the UK media
24:39
if not in the UK population. In the UK media, we sit here, you and me
24:43
and we go, that Brexit's not got any clothes on. why is everybody why is jacob rees-mog telling me that it's a beautiful cashmere suit
24:52
why is why is boris johnson telling me that it's the best dressed emperor there's ever been and
24:58
off it goes and now everyone can see that it's naked and then along comes boris johnson and
25:03
everybody's going look at those amazing robes look at his beautiful crown look at that feather
25:08
boa it really suits him and we're sitting here for 10 years going he's not got any clothes on
25:14
He's stark rollock naked. Why are you telling me he's got beautiful clothes
25:18
And then off he goes. And then Donald Trump turns up and all the same people
25:22
and all the same newspapers and all the same broadcasters and all the same pundits are going
25:27
Donald Trump's going to be great. It's not a Venn diagram. It's a circle
25:32
Pro-Brexit, pro-Johnson, pro-Trump. It's all of them. It's all of them. You use phrases like Trump derangement syndrome
25:38
and we sit here and we say, he's not got any clothes on
25:42
He's hideous and naked. and they go, oh, you've got Trump derangement syndrome
25:47
You're so wrong. You're so wrong. Climate change denial comes along. You go, no, of course it's real
25:53
All the scientists say so. Yeah, whatever. I prefer to listen to, I don't know
25:58
some Daily Telegraph intern. And you just watch it happen. I mean, the best thing I can say at the moment
26:05
the most uplifting thing I can say at the moment is probably that I can't quite
26:11
in the event of Cammy Bader not getting into Downing Street, I don't think she would be as disastrous as Liz Truss
26:19
That's the best thing that anybody being honest and objective can say about her
26:24
And yet here we are again. Another naked emperor is strolling up the mall
26:29
And we're all being told that she's wearing the most incredible clothes we've ever seen
26:33
And who is this aimed at? Who is this aimed at? Because all those other emperors were naked
26:40
I know a stop clock can be right twice a day. Maybe this one won't be
26:45
But you know she is. 0345 6060 973. Who is the target
26:54
And the more I think about it, the more I think it matters
26:59
That cordon sanitaire that she established yesterday between her own party and Nigel Farage's party
27:06
which now contains people who don't think... Well, I mean, they probably would deny that they don't think the king isn't English or Nigel Farage's own children aren't English
27:15
But if they were brown, they'd be very comfortable saying that they're not English
27:19
They don't think Bakayo Saka is English. They don't think Ian Wright is English
27:23
They don't think Meera Sayal is English. They don't think Rishi Sunak is English. They don't think Diane Abbott can be English
27:29
And we know this because Suella Braverman came out and said it. And so I think it matters
27:35
The thing I don't get, I think it matters and I welcome it
27:40
And I think I withdraw, not just because Sheila Fogarty told me off at the end of yesterday's program, which you may have heard
27:45
I withdraw the observation that it was the worst speech ever by any opposition leader in the history of the United Kingdom
27:53
I think that was a little bit hyperbolic on my part. But apart from this and the madness about inheritance tax proves my point rather than disproves it
28:03
But this, I think this really matters. I think this is John Major. I think this is Michael Heseltine. You know, I think this is, we are conservatives. We are not disgusting. We are different. That was the line. They are not like us. We are not like them. And that is really important
28:23
but I don't know who it appeals to. Seriously, I think it's really good
28:31
I'd go so far as to say I think it's brilliant that she's done this
28:37
And I don't know whether she's done it to make herself more electable or whether she has done it
28:41
because she thinks it really matters. I'm going to go with the latter. I'm going to go with both
28:45
But who is this voter that needed to hear this? 03456060973 is the number that you need
28:55
Claire is in Clapham. Claire, what do you reckon? I kind of sadly and slightly disappointingly say it's me
29:01
Why sadly? So, well, because I feel really conflicted. OK, go on
29:06
That's the reality. I'll be quiet for a while. I'm not very happy with the Conservatives
29:10
I, you know, I did not vote them last time and I've got a lot of grudges with them
29:14
Sure. But the world is not in a great place and our country's not in a great place
29:18
and everything's a bit stuffed and I'm poorer than ever. And I'm that sort of classic middle-class voter
29:25
My husband and I are both top 5% earners and we are poorer than ever
29:30
You know, nothing has moved. But you're not as poor as the 95%
29:34
I get it. No, I get that. And that's why I'm conflicted. And in addition to that..
29:38
Well, I salute your honesty because I think you're right. I think she is saying, don't you worry. We'll look after you and stuff the 95%
29:44
Well, yeah, but I do think there's more to it. No, I think that's simplistic. Because I think what she's trying to do is put more money back in people's pockets so they start spending again
29:53
If people start spending again, the economy has the potential to grow. I'm not saying it guaranteed will, but it has the potential to
30:00
the country needs. You know, we can't afford to do our big extensions at the moment with
30:04
all these tax traps that we're completely stuck in. But in addition to that, what we're
30:09
doing is we're putting all of our money at the moment... You're describing trickle-down economics. Well, a little bit, yeah. A little bit
30:14
So just make sure that we can afford to do stuff and everyone else will benefit. I mean
30:19
I think you're right. I think you're right. I think that's what she's doing. I find it ridiculous, intellectually
30:24
I don't. Because, OK, let me give you an example. My husband and I, OK, his earnings, for example
30:29
they sit in that category where he's in that 60% tax bracket just above 100k
30:34
and because of that we are putting on about 30 grand a year into his pension
30:39
so that we can benefit from tax-free childcare. If they get rid of this 100k tax trap which she's proposing to do
30:46
and I think Labour should be doing the same we will immediately say you know what government have that extra tax from us
30:52
we'll pay it now not in 30 years when we draw down our pension. That's a really good example and that proves your point
30:56
And there's so many traps there. I don't think there are. I think that is absolutely the trap
31:03
No, it isn't, because so many people are limiting what they earn who sit in this kind of category
31:07
That's what I mean, because of the childcare issue. No, but also because the personal allowances
31:15
the 20%, the 40%, things haven't moved. Goodness knows how many years. The Tories were in power for 40%
31:21
I know, I know. Kemi Bainot was in the government. But what you're saying is, and we're not going to get away from it
31:27
and I salute your honesty, What you're saying is everybody is poorer than ever
31:32
and the way to fix it is to look after the richest. No, I don't mean..
31:36
You just said the top 5%. But I'm not just talking about me
31:40
I'm talking about my friends who are teachers, who have really respectable incomes
31:46
but just stuck everywhere. 53% of the population takes more out than it puts in
31:52
53%. Right. So that's going to include teachers. They're already getting more from the Treasury than they're putting into it over the course of their lifetime
32:02
This is a country that labours under the illusion that we are highly taxed when we are not
32:09
You look at the state of our public services, you need more public spending, not respectfully more extensions in Clapham
32:18
I understand your point, but I think here's the other thing I didn't, the point I didn't make, but I feel really strongly about
32:24
Who's she trying to get to? She's trying to get to those people like me that are terrified reform are going to have some power over our country
32:32
And I didn't vote Conservative last time. I don't I think that the sentiment towards Labour has moved
32:39
So I don't think they're safe to vote for anymore. If I vote for Lib Dem, it's a completely wasted vote
32:44
I might as well vote Tory and be a little bit richer in the process
32:48
You see what I mean? I do see what you mean. Because I do not want Farajan
32:52
No, and the significance of that line there, reform MPs are openly questioning people's identity and then following it up straight away. They are not like us. We are not like them. I think it will be the finances of it aside, and we're not going to agree about that, the finances of it aside, although obviously I'm in that same 5% as well
33:11
the perception that they're the same and indeed the electoral heft of people thinking that
33:22
if you vote Conservative you might let reform in by the back door
33:25
because they might do some sort of electoral pact by ruling that out completely
33:29
if people believe her, people like you she actually gets your vote
33:33
I think you're right Claire, I think it is you and the last thing I want to say is that
33:39
she smells a bit like David Cameron to me and I liked his politics
33:44
That kind of work hard, get rewarded mindset. And I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with that
33:49
You know we can check quite easily how that worked out. Well, because of Brexit
33:54
Not just because of Brexit. I mean, we can have a look at how..
33:58
Because, I mean, the way he was going to improve the finances of people like me and you was austerity
34:04
That was before Brexit. It was shutting short starts. It was closing libraries
34:08
It was taking away social infrastructure. It was taking away social capital from the people who don't have any actual financial capital
34:16
But I mean, you like the smell of it. The problem is that we are so fickle
34:23
We keep turning over these new prime ministers. No one is getting to see anything through
34:28
You know, and I was furious that David Cameron stood down. He took us into that Brexit vote
34:34
And he should have seen it through, even though it didn't go his way. and all of these prime ministers constantly changing
34:41
what do we expect is going to happen? We can all agree about that
34:45
It's madness, but as a nation, we keep... We're just turning them out. We want instant results
34:51
It doesn't work like that. Where's the patience? I really wanted Starbucks to have longer
34:56
Yeah, I hear you, but I mean, the world is a mess and it is as a consequence of Brexit
35:01
because people were given permission to believe things that are not true simply because they want to believe them
35:06
But net zero, European Convention on Human Rights. I mean, all of the other madnesses that Bedouin is serving up for the right of the right
35:15
even though she's successfully cordoned off the extreme right. You don't worry about that
35:23
I didn't hear her whole speech. No, that's fine. I have umpteen concerns bringing Tories back in
35:29
Genuinely, loads. But I have more concerns about reform coming in. Yeah, and I think you've nailed it, actually
35:35
There it is. I think you've nailed who she's going for. And good luck to her on that front, actually, I would say
35:42
Let's have another little listen to this precise pivot, if you like
35:46
because I think this needed to be done. And I probably hadn't clocked the necessity of doing it
35:52
And sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees, especially if you do this for a living
35:56
You're too in the weeds to pick up on the stuff. And remember, she defended Robert Jenrick
36:01
when he said there were too many black faces in Birmingham. So, and she has said that she doesn't believe that institutional racism exists
36:08
So she has been on the same path as these people. But she's stuck a fork in the road yesterday
36:16
And I think it's a really important fork. Have another little listen. Reform MPs are openly questioning people's identity
36:23
They are not like us. We are not like them. We are different. We are the Conservative Party
36:29
and I'm getting old so I don't feel any need to go toe to toe
36:33
with people like Claire anymore or get all kind of mouthy about the absurdity
36:39
of trickle down economics but that's the question today is who is it designed to appeal to
36:45
and it is clearly designed to people who think that if you make life easier for the people who've got
36:51
already got the most but feel they haven't got enough then somehow everything
36:57
improves. I don't buy it myself and I would argue that we've tried it many, many
37:01
many times in the past and that if you are to increase public spending you cannot decrease taxation
37:07
but here we are. That's probably the biggest divide in British politics over the last hundred years. It's
37:13
10.46. James O'Brien on LBC. It's 10.211 and you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
37:23
A bit of Claire on Claire action here Claire attacking Claire The utter hypocrisy of this caller Thank you for your patience She wants free childcare for the richer because Kemi smells like
37:35
Cameron, despite the fact that they got rid of Sure Start and Labour is reintroducing
37:39
it. So what is her fear of them? I bet you she's a Daily Mail reader, so she can't be reasonably debated
37:45
I disagree. I think we had a perfectly reasonable exchange, Claire, but I respect
37:49
your right to disagree. And I can do this. I don't think it's going to win me any friends
37:57
But I can do that thing where you are earning what seems like a really high salary to people who are on, for example, the national average salary
38:07
You've got two people, say, in the lowest six figures, just around about the 100,000 mark
38:13
You're getting hit on the childcare thing, which is silly. It's a really silly threshold
38:19
All thresholds are kind of silly. I don't know why we don't have more tapers, probably because they're too complicated, but it is silly
38:26
And you're looking at your pay packet and you're thinking, I should be able to do more
38:31
I should have more. Quite a lot of people, and I'm talking about this super privileged, of course I am
38:36
people who went to private school who can't afford to send their children to private school
38:40
despite thinking that they have played by the rules, if you like
38:44
And that is, you know, that's a, I don't expect normal people to get their violins out at this point, but you have to see the world through other people's eyes if you want to understand what it is that they see
38:57
So, yes, of course, it can sound silly to be opposed to the party that's bringing back Sure Start and drawn to the party that abolished it if your major concern is childcare
39:07
But Sure Start wasn't childcare in the sort of, you know, eight hours a day kind of sense
39:12
They are different things, albeit principles. So I get that. And that is who she's appealing to, I think
39:22
And that leaves me puzzling slightly over the question of where these people went in the interim, because I don't think they did go further to the right
39:32
And maybe they did go to Keir Starmer. So she's getting the Tory Starmer supporter
39:39
That's who this is aimed at. And they needed to hear the stuff about how they reject racism
39:45
I don't know. Mo's in Birmingham. Mo, what do you think? James, you, I think, maybe have come close to hitting the..
39:52
First time for everything, Mo. First time for everything, mate. I think one thing we are sure
39:58
she has written off that 10, 15% of people who would never vote for a black prime minister
40:05
Yeah. So she's not interested in that. And neither does she think that that's a decisive aspect of the electorate
40:12
I think at this stage, I think she wants to make the Tories an interesting proposition for as wide a population as possible
40:22
So she's going to be something for everyone or something for the other 85%
40:28
and that's going to obviously potentially interest would be you know the current lib dem voters in the
40:36
in the home county say for example uh potentially labor voters in the sort of outer suburbia areas
40:45
you know the leafy sort of suburbia areas and so on and something obviously for the current
40:50
tory base so that's that's her current aim but but what though because the number of estates
40:55
affected by inheritance tax is already vanishingly small. And it will increase, I guess, in April when pensions are added to it
41:02
But she's exempted all houses from inheritance tax, which is fantastic news for the people who literally live in the most
41:11
or are literally set to inherit the most expensive houses in the country
41:15
She's clearly done something because Claire felt in Clapham that she was talking to her
41:20
She was appealing to her. But what? What's the offer here? And, you know, this is a speech in which she derided uncosted tax cuts
41:29
and then announced several uncosted tax cuts. I think there's a degree of vagueness and contradiction
41:37
but she is, I think, of the mind to think that the Tories at the moment
41:40
are not going to form the next government. Or she doesn't think so
41:44
And there have been instances where I think Tory shadow ministers have also alluded to that
41:48
There was an election in May next year, which I could not rule out
41:52
that, you know, the Tories are not going to win that. But what they might do is that they may go into the 160s, the 170s and 180s
42:01
and be in a position to permanently lance the reform, restore, boil that exists on the right
42:07
and therefore potentially be in the game for the next election after
42:13
Now, there are a couple of things that I think would really help Kimi Badenoch
42:17
and these sound contradictory to what you would assume. she is desperate for Labour to deal with immigration and the Europe question
42:27
These are two issues that the Tories, I think for some reason
42:32
find really awkward to deal with in the way they would like to
42:36
So if there was a situation where Labour was able to repair the Europe issue
42:41
because there's one thing I noticed in her speech yesterday, she wasn't talking about pitchforks and beaches battling the European tide
42:50
when it came to Burnham potentially reversing Brexit. She, I think, just said
42:55
we do not want to have this argument. And it was a curious ripple in the room
42:59
I don't know if you picked up on it. It was as if they didn't know quite where to go
43:02
because there's people in the room who really want to do it. And there will be people in the room who really don't
43:07
And that is, of course, why we ended up in the mess that we ended up in
43:11
because David Cameron was trying to sort of keep them all happy. Yeah. And I think that she..
43:17
It may not be her because I still sometimes have doubts about how smart she actually is
43:22
I don't. But I think there are some in the Tory party that feel that if Europe and immigration were no longer an issue
43:28
a lot of the people that are potentially looking at reform, those who are not racist, say
43:34
and I'm being very specific here. You're being very generous as well. Yeah
43:39
I think there are those that are looking to vote reform because they want to change
43:44
That's the type. Yeah. They're not necessarily not knowing what type of change they want
43:48
They just want to change. She's, I think, looking to potentially entice them
43:53
because they are not the ones that are reticent about brown faces and other things on the streets of Britain
44:02
Yeah, but I still don't know who that is. Do you see what I mean
44:06
I still don't know who the constituency of people is that are going, oh, I couldn't have voted for them before
44:14
but she's made it clear that they're not racist, so I can now. Yeah, I think, James, you will know it
44:20
There are a lot of contradictions amongst the electorate here in the UK. There are a lot of reform voters
44:26
and you regard reform as a right-wing party, that actually want more state intervention in the economy
44:32
Yeah, but they, I mean, respectfully, they struggle to tie their own shoelaces sometimes, don't they
44:36
Because they think they're in favour of things that they're actually opposed to, and they are opposed to things that they actually think they're in favour of
44:42
because the newspapers have spent their entire lives telling them to to use their political power
44:47
to to keep wealth in power so we've got that and then you know we've clearly got you see
44:54
this is where i think maybe she needs to really polish up her her She disaffected the Zach Goldsmiths of the Conservative Party because obviously she very anti at the moment
45:07
And dare I say, if Boris Johnson wanted to reappear on the seat
45:11
he wouldn't get a Tory seat because he is in favour of net-zero
45:15
But also, Zach Goldsmith led a profoundly racist... So just to prove your point about how complicated things are
45:21
Well, Zach Goldsmith led a profoundly racist mayoral campaign against Sadiq Khan back in the day
45:25
Indeed, yeah. So where do we go? So, yeah, I mean, maybe I'm being a bit daft myself
45:31
by thinking that there is an easily definable constituency of people that she's appealing
45:35
She's doing vibes, isn't she? She's just trying to create an air of a more amenable offer
45:41
And the first thing you do with that is detoxify. And she detoxifies by pointing out
45:47
that we are not like these racists over there. She didn't use the word, but we all know what she meant
45:52
You'll like this, Mo. I'd like to agree with this from Matt. I like it when Mo comes on, I always learn something from him
45:59
or he makes me see things that I've missed. That's nice, isn't it
46:04
I think we just cut you off, Mo, while I was complimenting you on the quality of your contribution
46:08
and reading out praise for you from one of my other listeners. It is coming up to 11 o'clock
46:13
You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC, where, ah, man, Mystery Hour coming up at 12
46:20
Quite, I mean, you know, thinking of some of the things in the last hour
46:25
and then turning to news today that renting a room in London
46:29
London, in London, is now hitting £1,000 a month and just wondering what that does to your life
46:36
Some of the blame for this lying with, according to the research published today
46:41
by a, well, it's a kind of landlord's lobby group, albeit a business that offers up rooms in flat shares
46:51
That is a life-changing thing. I mean, who are you going to help
46:54
The people that are having to pay over a grand a month to rent or the people who we touched upon in the last hour
47:02
James O'Brien on LBC. It's three minutes after 11. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
47:09
See, funnily enough, the next story that I want to talk about touches on some of the things that we talked about in the last hour and indeed on some of the things that we talk about every day
47:19
Listen, if it irritates you when I point out the madness of those, the four horsemen of the Krapopalyps, then it's because you were persuaded to think they were a good idea
47:29
It's not my fault that you thought Brexit was a good idea or Boris Johnson would be a good prime minister or Liz Truss was an economic genius or Donald Trump would be a reliable ally of this country
47:38
You can't get cross with the messenger. You've got to try not to shoot the messenger
47:41
Get cross with the people who sold you the lies. And then be careful that they're not about to sell you another one
47:48
That's all. So, you know, I guess the fact that you're messaging me to tell me how cross you are, that I keep mentioning these things, is proof that you're reachable
47:59
Proof that you know somewhere deep inside that you were mugged off. But my job is to make sure that you don't get mugged off again
48:06
that's not what this story is about by the way it's about mental health
48:12
and particularly about things real things that damage mental health one of the weirdest things about being a bit of an idiot
48:22
which I probably still am but was even more so as a younger man
48:26
you look at the world sometimes as if everybody in it is just like you
48:31
and if there's something wrong with them it's because they're not just like you
48:35
the skepticism surrounding mental health is the best example of this that i've ever been able to
48:40
think of it doesn't matter what trauma you experience as a youngster the way you got
48:44
through that trauma was to grow a an extra thick layer of skin and the maddest injustice really
48:52
of the human condition is that you needed to grow that to survive and yet it serves you so poorly
49:00
in other areas of your life. So you become repressed. You become a stiff upper lip is what we call it
49:08
or used to call it. You grow this armour because childhood is a lot tougher
49:13
than we like to acknowledge. And you don't have to, I mean, my experience
49:17
obviously at a sort of post-Victorian public school where beatings were commonplace at my prep school
49:24
and all manner of horrors were going on, You become somebody that's not authentic
49:31
But the real tragedy of the human condition is that it's effective. You know, look at what Boris Johnson had to become to survive Eton
49:38
Look at what David Cameron had to become to survive and thrive
49:43
It works. If you had an abusive parent, you end up in some cases persuading yourself that it hasn't done you any harm
49:51
Because it's what gets you through. It's the survival personality in therapeutic terms
49:57
I'm fascinated by this, and it's going to be a lifelong fascination. I know that it is
50:02
And my wife works as a psychotherapist, so she can educate me and introduce me to new ideas and new thoughts as well
50:10
And I have a therapist who's fantastic and helps me explore all sorts of things
50:15
But that's the biggest thing you need to learn, that you become something unideal at an early age
50:26
And it works. And some people never, ever want to change. And it means that they're going to have stresses in their life
50:33
They're going to have stresses in their relationships. They're going to be unreliable partners or, I mean, we are all imperfect parents
50:40
But you're not going to be the best you can be if you are living an inauthentic self
50:47
All right. That's the end of the therapy speak, because Brexit, Liz Truss's mini budget, Russia's invasion of Ukraine, both covid lockdowns and other events, other actual shocks over the past 10 years
51:03
according to research published today, have led to a serious and lasting deterioration in the United Kingdom's mental health
51:17
This is part of the publication, the report due to be published tomorrow by Professor Peter Fonegi
51:24
looking at recent increases in diagnoses of mental illness and ADHD and autism
51:31
That comes out tomorrow. We'll almost certainly be talking about it. There's deep concern about why 2.8 million Britons are too ill to work and almost a million young people aged 16 to 24 have become NEATs
51:44
But one thing that we know is going to be included in the or rather one thing that we know helps to explain those figures because of research that's been conducted by University College London
51:57
looking at the UK household longitudinal study of just under 90,000 people aged 16 and over
52:03
is that those five, quote, systemic shocks have had a massive impact on our mental health
52:12
Now, the reason I talked about idiots a moment ago, and the fact that I used to be one
52:18
is this, and it's really easy to explain. Well, they haven't affected my mental health
52:23
So this must be rubbish Do you see what I meant when I said that you have this weird worldview where you think that if there something wrong with people it because they not like you Well they haven affected my mental health So this must be rubbish It mad It like saying that you never had
52:40
a cold. So everyone who's walking around sniffing, blowing their nose and sneezing must somehow be
52:45
faking it or lying. Well, I've never had it's never affected my mental. I've never had any
52:49
problems with this kind of so all the people who say that they do have problems must be swinging in the lead it's incredible i mean it is so counterintuitive but it's populism and it works
52:59
those five events brexit truss's budget two covid lockdowns and russia's invasion of ukraine
53:06
have had enormous impacts on the population's mental health and help explain up to and including
53:17
the present day why we are um why so many of us are struggling to a point where we may not be
53:25
fit for work the researchers put it like this the past decade or so funny that's exactly the
53:31
timescale we keep talking about as well isn't it the past decade or so has been tumultuous
53:36
shaped by multiple overlapping shocks and ongoing uncertainty and instability that have impacted
53:43
mental health in Britain, we have shown that major government decisions and current global events can
53:50
have substantial impacts on people's mental health. And it's immediate. All five events caused
53:57
immediate and serious damage to overall mental well-being across the UK. The referendum in June
54:04
2016, the first lockdown in March 2020, caused the most damage, which I guess not really occurred to
54:12
before. That's why the phrase Brexit derangement syndrome was so perfect. It was a perfect
54:18
encapsulation of what I just described. Well, I haven't been affected by it at all. So everybody
54:22
who has been must be deranged, as opposed to it being an absolutely logical response
54:28
to trauma, the trauma of being told by your neighbours or your colleagues that you are not
54:34
welcome here, that the trauma of being blamed for the for the country's problems, and then the trauma
54:40
if you're not foreign born, of waking up in a country that you didn't recognize anymore
54:45
Waking up in a country that you thought was open and welcoming and modern and yet was subject to
54:50
the atavism and hideousness of Boris Johnson and his mates. And then the lockdown, which, of course
55:00
may have been inevitable, but was a consequence in large part, the length of them and the lateness
55:06
of them as a consequence of Boris Johnson's awfulness and the impacts of Liz Truss's budget
55:12
when I think what it is because that's what I was going to ask, what do they all have in common
55:17
And the most obvious thing is shock. They are shocks to the system. I think it also
55:22
speaks to a shaking of the foundations. You know, a seismic shaking
55:30
of the foundations. You sort of think that everything is there's a baseline of normality in our lives, in our shared lives, in our society. There's a
55:41
baseline of normality. Or there's a net that you will always land in. And you know that some people
55:47
will slip through the net due to, you know, addiction or due to terrible tragedy. But
55:53
generally speaking, you're going to be able to maintain a relatively even keel. And then these
56:01
things happen that are too big, really, to allow you to. So it's not leaving the European Union
56:11
that was traumatic for people, I don't think. It's realizing that you lived in a country full
56:15
of people who were daft enough to vote for it, or racist enough to vote for it, or ill-informed
56:22
enough to vote for it. That, I can see, was a big shake. But of course, if you were a European
56:27
Union citizen, it had an extra dimension of being told to bog off. I didn't quite get it
56:34
actually, looking back. I had a couple of German friends at my daughter's primary school
56:39
and he was a big shot. He's the kind of guy that when he leaves the country, the Daily Telegraph writes about it and blame it all on Andy Burnham. But they announced within a
56:46
day or two of the vote that they were moving to, I think it was to Paris. He was an international
56:52
financier. He could work almost anywhere. And they were minted. I mean, proper minted. And he was off
56:59
And I didn't quite get it because I said, well, you're not going to be affected by this. You've got, because I don't want to be here anymore. I don't want to be here anymore. And
57:09
if he had been constructed differently, it would have had an impact on his mental health
57:18
You know, he didn't want his children growing up in a country where they had been rendered overnight sort of second class and then the lockdown comes along and you think this is mad
57:27
do you remember lockdown or is your brain playing tricks on you you remember going for a walk within
57:31
a limited area so it's it's what's the phrase i'm looking for you know hannah arendt had that
57:37
wonderful phrase the bity of evil i'm kind of talking about the beauty of bity almost
57:44
that the beauty of bity our existences may not be epic we may not be um changing the world
57:51
But there's a baseline of normality or bity. There's a baseline of normality
57:55
And it's actually strangely reassuring. You know, it's a bit like metaphorical bombs don't go off in our world, in our post-war existence, that there is a level of normality
58:08
And then these things come along. Like we can have a prime minister who actually announces, who actually tries to turn our economy into a fever dream
58:19
We can actually live in a country where that can happen. The more I talk about this, the more amazing it is that I haven't had a breakdown
58:27
Because I've been pointing this stuff out every day for the last ten years. It's not just that you have a Prime Minister who can turn the country into a basket case on a whim
58:36
but it's happened as a direct consequence of having a bent media
58:40
and having lobby groups masquerading as think tanks, acting exclusively in the interest of the super-rich
58:45
But what it does, not why it happens, what it does, is shake the foundations of our complacency
58:55
Complacency is a lovely thing, isn't it? We use it as a bad word
58:59
We say, oh, you're so complacent. I love complacent. Complacency is great because it means that you're not worried about anything
59:05
How dare you be so complacent? I wish I was more complacent. Complacency must be wonderful
59:10
I don't know what the show would be like if I was complacent. I worry sometimes I'm getting too complacent
59:15
But complacency is comforting. and then things like this come along, five things like this come along
59:21
and they have a major impact on our mental health and we're talking here about depression and anxiety
59:28
Depression and anxiety. So, do you know, do you think? I'll take a little junction now and I'll come back
59:40
There is a phone in here. I just didn't realise quite how much I'd have to say about all this. And the phone in there will be one of two things
59:46
It'll be, do you know that the event is one of the reasons why you're struggling
59:51
Can you, do you know? Or is it just like straws and camels backs? You say, I honestly think I'm depressed because of lockdowns, or I've never really got
59:59
over my anxiety since COVID. Or since I woke up one morning
1:00:05
and I thought I'm not going to be able to pay my mortgage. And now every morning when I wake up
1:00:08
my tummy is in a slightly different place from where it was before that happened. Do you see what I mean
1:00:13
Do you know that? Can you trace it to one of these five things or others
1:00:19
Security and predictability are wonderful, wonderful things. And then the other bit of it
1:00:25
something that we don't do enough on this program and something that me from 10 years ago would be sing at
1:00:31
and that's part of the problem here, the things you do to get better. No, I don't mean clinical depression
1:00:37
I mean the lower-level stuff, the ways in which you can alleviate
1:00:43
and that's one of my favorite words, ameliorate, the ways in which you can ameliorate these traumas
1:00:50
these social and societal traumas. 03456060973 is the number you need. But I don't think I've quite finished yet
1:01:01
James O'Brien on LBC. How has it affected you? Maybe you're listening to this now thinking, good grief, that's me he's talking about
1:01:10
I thought it was just the doldrums. I thought I'd just become anxious later in life
1:01:15
I thought it was linked to the menopause. I thought it was because we're not earning as much as we thought we would be at this point in our lives
1:01:22
I thought it was because my mum was ill or my dad died. But he's right, you know
1:01:28
Now that I come to think of it, of course major events
1:01:32
major shocks to a society are shocks to our mental systems as well
1:01:38
So what do you reckon? Do you reckon this is you? Do you actually think that rises, big rises in psychological distress
1:01:48
most obviously through issues like depression and anxiety, for you can be traced back to one of these five moments
1:01:56
or indeed something else. I think the nearest I got to this is probably Trump, actually
1:02:03
And again, they have to call that a derangement syndrome. The people who are inflicting it on the world
1:02:08
they can see what we see. They know he's depraved. They know he's morally corrupt
1:02:13
They know he's all of the things that his harshest critics said and more. But they sold him to you, so they have to attack all of the people
1:02:20
but that's probably the closest partly as a consequence of a couple of books I've read
1:02:24
and a couple of films that I've seen and when Simon sits here in the studio and describes as he did yesterday
1:02:30
very real possibilities of a complete assault on democracy we know how that song ends
1:02:36
that's probably the closest I've come to genuine anxiety my job's so weird though
1:02:42
isn't it because the more anxiety inducing the events are the more we've actually
1:02:46
got to talk about together and I get anxious in the morning when I worry that we haven't got anything to talk about together
1:02:50
So one anxiety cancels out the other, and we just get to spend time together
1:02:55
But how have these things affected you? Is it a relief almost to hear today that A, you're not alone
1:03:04
and B, it's not your fault. It's a natural and common reaction to events
1:03:12
And Simon puts it best in some ways. To be depressed and anxious, he writes, is currently the only rational response to the world that we live in if you are a decent person
1:03:23
I mean, that doesn't take away my desire to also look at things we can do to feel better
1:03:29
I've discovered something relatively recently that you're not going to believe, but it works like a charm
1:03:36
I mean, it literally resets me and calms me down. I mean, it is unbelievably effective
1:03:44
It's not a big shock. it's a fairly obvious thing you can do but I'll tell you what it is a little later
1:03:48
let's have a look at this first this question of whether or not you can see the link between these events
1:03:53
and your own mental health Indy's in Brighton, Indy, what would you like to say? Hi James Hello
1:04:00
I want to say I was just below the voting age when Brexit happened
1:04:07
but at the time how the media played it I was actually for it
1:04:12
and then it kind of happened and I was like, oh, this is terrible. Yes
1:04:17
I can't believe this has happened, but that's just stupid adults and that will pass
1:04:22
And I went off to uni and in my third year of COVID hit
1:04:26
I literally had to take a year off because I just couldn't keep at it
1:04:32
You know, uni, the whole format had changed. What was it? Was it inside you
1:04:40
Guess what we're talking about, Indy? and I hadn't realised this until I listened to you
1:04:44
We're talking about how the stuff outside you ends up inside you, aren't we
1:04:50
Yeah, like... Brexit happened, and I was like, that doesn't affect me, not really
1:04:58
I mean, this will pass, and it will fix, and it will be OK. But when COVID happened, it hit everybody, right
1:05:04
Like, everyone got affected by it. And I don't want to say it hit me worse than anyone else, but..
1:05:11
You can say that. Not everyone else, but it hit you worse than some people
1:05:15
Yeah, but when it affects you directly, you feel it a lot more
1:05:19
What did you feel? How did it affect you directly? What did it do to you? I've actually got a diagnosis of anxiety since that time
1:05:31
And I don't want to say it was on there because I had molar issues before that
1:05:36
Of course, I understand. But you think, you know you better than anyone does
1:05:41
and you think that that snapped something inside you. Yeah, I think it was definitely, you know
1:05:48
if someone said straw on the camel's back or whatever, so that's kind of how I feel about how COVID hit
1:05:54
Is it healing? Is it getting better or does it feel gone
1:05:58
I mean, I have a wonderful family and support structure. I kind of understand what's going on
1:06:05
And I think that's really important and I'd be way worse without it
1:06:11
I mean, when I listen to you telling your simple story like that
1:06:15
I mean, it's dog bites, man territory, isn't it? It'd be a miracle if we hadn't been affected mentally
1:06:21
by things as big as COVID or Brexit. I was a little bit surprised to see Liz Truss's mini budget on the list
1:06:28
but only because I was insulated from it by the nature of my mortgage
1:06:33
If I'd been waking up in the morning thinking, oh, my days, we're not going to be able to be able to
1:06:36
then that would have stayed with me. There's a great line from a famous psychologist. He says, the body keeps the score. That's what we're talking about here, isn't it? The body keeps the score. The things that happen to us may not leave physical scars, but the body keeps the score. And you feel anxiety inside you
1:06:56
yeah i mean a lot of the time you're like i can deal with this but when you can't deal with it
1:07:06
that's when it's just the worst yeah and and and you you were lucky enough to get to get help of
1:07:13
course and and and some people don't i hope things i hope the improvement i hope the upwards
1:07:17
trajectory continues indy but it's important of course to acknowledge that the moments when it
1:07:23
doesn feel like it will This is a really interesting story And of course the endless debates that we have about NEATs and about people out of work and the hideous rhetoric you see
1:07:36
This is why it's such dangerous rhetoric. And I think Bader not went there yesterday
1:07:41
They're trying to create the impression that there is huge amounts of malingering and fraud and all of those things
1:07:49
of course there are always in any system people taking advantage of the system but to think that
1:07:56
the system is defined by the people taking advantage of it is hideous and it makes you
1:08:01
less likely as a society as a population to look at the the reality behind these figures and the
1:08:07
reality will be that an awful lot of people are still suffering psychological distress to a degree
1:08:14
where they're not leading the life that they would like to lead
1:08:18
whether that's at home or whether that's at work. Lots of love to you, Indy, from a lot of people listening
1:08:23
And that line, it's not Gabor Marte, it's someone else, Gary. It'll come to me in a minute, the body keeps the score guy
1:08:31
It's just a phrase. The full text and the writer responsible for it is like everybody
1:08:39
more complicated than a single phrase allows. but that simple phrase, the body keeps the score, is really important
1:08:46
Jane's in Portsmouth. Jane, what would you like to say? Hi, James
1:08:51
Yeah, what you were saying really rang true for me. I guess you'd call it the sort of trigger for me
1:08:58
was the Black Lives Matter period of time in terms of when the George Floyd atrocity happened
1:09:10
And then, you know, the discussions on social media around Black Lives Matter and the division that caused in social media
1:09:21
That's a perfect example. That's a perfect example of your perception of normality being completely destroyed and realizing things are much, much worse than you ever thought
1:09:30
Yeah. And that it was the surprising way that people reacted that you, you know, you feel close to you feel, you know, they're good people
1:09:39
People, you know, who, you know, you thought held the same kind of wider worldviews as you, you know, about humanity
1:09:49
And, you know, it just felt like there was suddenly this unwillingness of people
1:09:56
Well, it felt like an unleashing. Even though I'm a good person, I work hard, I do these things
1:10:01
but actually there could be someone else that has a more difficult deal than me in the world
1:10:10
and I want to make space for them and to give a platform to their experiences
1:10:15
The unwillingness of people to want to do that was very triggering for me
1:10:21
and it did send me into a bit of a spiral of anxiety and a very physical sort of reaction
1:10:27
And I did end up going into therapy and, you know, going on to medication for anxiety and things like that
1:10:34
But I remember that as being a real sort of trigger. Did you realise at the time
1:10:40
I think, I mean, I was engaging in discussions on social media with people I knew, which I mean, I try to avoid now for my own self-preservation
1:10:53
That's probably wise. you know, because I felt, you know, I was really, it really kind of hit home to me when, you know
1:11:01
people that were talking about Black Lives Matter were sort of saying, you know, you can be not racist
1:11:06
but you need to be actively anti-racist in order to be an ally. And I, and so I kind of thought I'm going to actively put myself in these uncomfortable situations
1:11:17
Yeah, well, you know, we're not, I get that. I can see why you did that, but it can do you harm
1:11:23
It's a very uncomfortable place to be and a very anxiety-inducing place to be
1:11:28
It's the thing, isn't it? Looking for the thing that links all of these issues. And that's not on the list, but, I mean, it most certainly could be
1:11:37
This idea that all of your preconceptions are comforting, even complacent preconceptions about our world
1:11:45
including our small world, our social circle, not just our country or our society
1:11:49
but comforting preconceptions get blown to smithereens and and i think that those discussions
1:11:57
you know around things like black lives matter they do sort of transfer quite quickly from
1:12:03
you know you know countrywide discussions to your very it shrinks down to your facebook group or it
1:12:09
shrinks shrinks down to your social circle my friend scott has just reminded me of one that
1:12:13
definitely hit me hard and that was grenfell the reactions to grenfell shook me
1:12:19
actually to my core and still do. I don't know if you heard my voice wobble a bit then
1:12:24
but I still find it extraordinary to reflect upon how some people chose to react to that
1:12:29
And then the discovery of what had lain behind the process and people who've subsequently become
1:12:37
my friends who warned that this was likely to happen and sitting in a country and calling
1:12:42
myself a journalist and living for a long time with almost in the shadow of the building and
1:12:49
not knowing anything about it. That shook my complacent and comforting preconceptions
1:12:53
to their very core. And if I'd been a bit wobbly in other areas
1:12:57
if I'd been a bit stressed about other things, it could have had a much deeper impact on my mental health
1:13:03
because I don't think it's ever going to be just one single thing. It's always going to be an accumulation
1:13:08
Jane, thank you. There's two more things we put on the list. It's an existential crisis of sorts, isn't it
1:13:14
when you think that the world you thought you'd inhabit forever doesn't actually exist
1:13:19
You live in a very, very different world. Of course it's going to affect you
1:13:23
I like the phrase psychological stress, psychological distress. And I know I obsess about this a bit
1:13:32
but the people who talk about stiff upper lip, eat less, exercise more
1:13:38
Brexit derangement syndrome, Trump derangement syndrome, they are the ones with the thickest skin of all
1:13:43
But it's still fake. It's still fake. They are more frightened of their own vulnerability than they are of yours, but they have to attack your vulnerability in order to distract their own minds from their own vulnerability
1:13:58
It's a fascinating thing. The psychologist I was thinking of who wrote the book The Body Keeps the Score, which is all about the role that the brain and the mind and the body play in the healing of trauma, is called Bessel van der Kolk, a researcher on traumatic stress
1:14:18
not by any means infallible paradigms aren't there in science and some of what he calls for
1:14:28
is very challenged but that simple line the bodies keep the score
1:14:32
how bodies store trauma so obvious and so powerful and yet still relatively new
1:14:39
I think he only came about 2014 just in time really given all the trauma that's happened since
1:14:45
it's 11.33 Dominic Ellis has your headlines James O'Brien on LBC. LBC charity Make Some Noise is here to help people through life toughest challenges And tomorrow tomorrow we are asking you for your help to support some amazing charities providing vital life changing support to those who need it the most But you
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1:16:40
James O'Brien on LBC. It's 11.39. I'm sort of thinking now beyond the five events that are at the centre of this research
1:16:51
It's about the impacts, the lasting impacts that shocks like Brexit or Covid lockdowns or Russia's invasion of Ukraine can have on our mental health
1:17:02
And adding to the list the aftermath, not just the killing of George Floyd, but also the aftermath
1:17:09
the license it seemed to give people to go to places that we didn't think people went to anymore
1:17:15
And then Grenfell. And similarly, not just the horrors of the tragedy, but the reactions to it
1:17:20
Social media, probably the big change there. Because I presume these people existed
1:17:25
But an awful lot of people who say the most disgusting things would not have any context in which to say it
1:17:30
I don't think they even would have thought it before they could go on social media and just attract attention to themselves by being utterly vile
1:17:37
And we've turned some of these people into sort of quasi-celebrities, haven't we? Like that Hopkins woman, you know, just literally saying
1:17:44
go on, say something really disgusting. Go on, here's some coins. Go on, say something. She said it, she said it, she said something really disgusting
1:17:51
And then in the online world, it happens all the time, all day, every day
1:17:58
And nice people try and deal with it or argue with it. And of course it's going to have a toll
1:18:03
So you'd add Black Lives Matter. You'd add Grenfell to the list
1:18:08
And very, very recently, I think that the... I'm just wondering what my body has kept the score of
1:18:15
in all the stuff that we talk about together. Because you sometimes catch me saying
1:18:19
that one stayed with me after the show. I think that the Let Them Drown
1:18:23
handing the loud hailer to a child at one of these fascist protests
1:18:28
at RNLI stations or at British ports, and a child chanting Let Them Drown into a loud hailer
1:18:36
I mean, talk about having your preconceptions challenged. You just sort of think that that can't happen
1:18:43
And then it happens. And, of course, you know, if you were built slightly differently
1:18:48
or dealing with more things, these are the moments that push you over certain thresholds
1:18:55
or over certain brinks. Of course they do. But do you know at the time, I wonder
1:19:01
Tom's in Haringey. Tom, what would you like to say? Hi, Steve
1:19:04
Hello, mate. good morning if it's still morning um i'm really nervous i think it's only me i know i know you
1:19:11
always say that um about talking to you but also about sort of talking to um i know my my experiences
1:19:17
and uh sort of things um i'll try and be as brief as i can i'll take your time um no rush
1:19:23
so i think lockdown or or at least lockdown framed kind of what happened to to um me and
1:19:31
My wife at the time definitely contributed in large part to me having a breakdown probably the next year
1:19:42
We had two, well, we have three kids. We had two at the time, and my wife found out she was pregnant again in March of that year
1:19:52
It was triplets at the start. and throughout the course of the pregnancy
1:20:00
two of them died. I'm sorry. So it was quite a traumatic time
1:20:07
but the lockdown framed it because we were very much in isolation
1:20:13
That's unbelievably awful. That's absolutely, because, I mean, it's a hideous thing to happen ever
1:20:21
but to happen when the normal structures of support and comfort are not in place
1:20:27
I can't even begin to think how hard that was for you all. But I don't think I dealt with it very well
1:20:35
But that's okay. I don't beat myself up about that. But I think come the next year
1:20:43
I had a stressful job anyway. I was an in-house finance director at a company
1:20:48
Oddly, I loved doing that during lockdown. It felt like a good CV item
1:20:52
because we helped kind of steer through and kept people in their jobs
1:20:56
We let nobody go. And it felt like a really positive thing
1:21:00
But afterwards, I wasn't able to deal with it anymore. And I did quit my job
1:21:05
and have totally changed careers. I'm a chef now. Wow. Yeah. What was it, do you think
1:21:13
When you came out of lockdown, it was almost as if it's..
1:21:17
I sometimes liken this job to flying a plane. Whatever's going on outside
1:21:22
the studio i can actually leave it for three hours every day it's a great blessing in some ways if
1:21:28
i've got bad stuff going on elsewhere in my life i can actually forget about it for three hours so
1:21:33
lockdown for you was a bit like that you've got to get through this you've got to get through this and you got to the other end and something had changed something profound something was different
1:21:43
and i don't know if it was that my focus had changed or just the idea of sitting in a desk
1:21:49
in the same room in the same house working from home you know most of the time kind of was a bit
1:21:55
broken for me yeah and then um i actually just wanted something that uh working in kitchens you
1:22:02
kind of you have a hard focus for the time that you're there but then you leave and it's gone
1:22:06
um so i kind of needed to take that element of stress out of my working life i suppose and you
1:22:13
And you have no regrets? A few financial ones, maybe. Yeah, I was going to say, because I'm fascinated by the road not travelled
1:22:23
the path not taken and we had no choice but to go through all of the things that we talking about today albeit you had a choice about what to do when you got when you got out the end of it but where would we be if if if for example covid had never happened we wouldn be quite the same people would we absolutely not
1:22:39
absolutely not um and now i like that thing but i i feel like i've always uh perhaps um not to be
1:22:46
absolutely sure about what i want to do yes i always think about that you know basleman where
1:22:51
sunscreen some of the most interesting people have no idea yeah you know i quite like that
1:22:58
i think it's okay to not know yeah i do too although society probably and upbringings and
1:23:04
other sort of straight jackets discourage us from acknowledging that we took an amazing call on
1:23:09
monday i think it was i don't know if you were listening from a young man who was diagnosed with
1:23:15
with with cancer at the age of 14 and towards the end of the call it was jack in st albans he said
1:23:20
But now, and he went, I mean, through all manner of difficulties dealing with that, both physically and mentally, and going back to school
1:23:29
But he's 28 now, and he said it was the best thing that ever happened to me
1:23:32
And I did a proper double take in the studio. He said it was the best thing that ever happened to me
1:23:36
And then he embarked upon a beautiful little moment describing how he reprioritized and how having had such a traumatic experience at such a young age had really taught him the value of what was actually important
1:23:49
and what was not. I talk about things that stay with me on the program
1:23:54
as negatives and difficult things. That's a real positive, and so are you, Tom
1:23:59
that idea that you can take stock of the entire situation and think I'm going to do things differently
1:24:04
because everybody is affected by this stuff. It's just that not everybody is able to acknowledge it
1:24:13
and if you're not acknowledging it, you can't process it, and if you don't process it, it stays with you
1:24:18
It stays with you forever. but it's, take care Tom, it's 11.46
1:24:22
James O'Brien on LBC. 10 to 12, it's a story about things
1:24:27
that affect our mental health and they are things in the news
1:24:31
I've just remembered that we, I was doing some work at the BBC
1:24:35
when the Grenfell Tower tragedy was very much at the forefront of the news agenda
1:24:41
and they offer counselling. They say, would you like some counselling? And of course that's a recognition of the impact
1:24:46
that just, and the job, I'm not a firefighter, for God's sake. I'm a gob on a stick
1:24:51
Of course these things are going to have an impact on you, even if they don't directly affect you
1:24:56
If they directly affect you, you know what he's going to sit here and say, oh, put yourself together
1:25:00
I can't believe that you're depressed. Well, that's not true, is it
1:25:04
Some people are going to say that. And that's one of the things that has had an impact
1:25:07
on our mental health over the last 10 years, is realizing that these people walk among us
1:25:13
You know, the people that would respond to the Black Lives Matter movement by celebrating how racist they are
1:25:20
the people who will abuse RNLI volunteers or cheer the people doing it
1:25:27
the people who responded to the Grenfell Tower tragedy by making comments about immigration
1:25:31
or the ethnicity of many of the people that died. It's extraordinary. Another one from Darrell, the pandemic
1:25:37
He says, open my eyes to the true priorities of many people
1:25:41
I watched individuals place politics and ideology above their own well-being and the health of the wider community
1:25:47
Reading their unfiltered views on social media as they dismissed expert advice
1:25:52
and argued against healthcare professionals was both astonishing and deeply disheartening. I'm getting a lot of messages
1:25:59
I read as many as I can and make of this what you will
1:26:04
but they're much longer than average, the messages that I'm getting, and I am reading them if I can
1:26:12
so thank you, especially if you've said some nice things about what we do together every day
1:26:17
Jonathan and David and Dan and Anne-Marie and others. Well, I'll read Anne-Marie's
1:26:23
The fact that Boris Johnson was prime minister had a detrimental effect on my mental health
1:26:28
My daughter had to have a gentle chat with me at the time to understand this. I wonder if the people who talk about Brexit derangement syndrome or Trump derangement syndrome
1:26:38
I wonder if that is a kind of projection. you know i wonder because they're the ones who've put the most effort into being inauthentic and to
1:26:46
ignoring the evidence of their own eyes and ears but somewhere deep inside they know that that is
1:26:52
an irrational position to adopt they can see in front of them a naked emperor but
1:26:58
what they can't do is acknowledge that they're part of the con so they attack the people who
1:27:05
are pointing out that the emperor is naked so it's almost an acknowledgement of their own mental
1:27:09
trauma. They're saying, oh, look, there's someone over there telling the truth. They must be mental
1:27:14
They've got a derangement. I don't know. Maybe I'm being too generous. But speaking of naked
1:27:18
emperors, I don't know if you've seen the statue of Donald Trump that's been unveiled in
1:27:24
I'll tell you exactly where it is. It's outside the European Parliament building in Strasbourg
1:27:29
I don't know that I would recommend it, but it's a sort of naked Donald Trump
1:27:33
on the shoulders of a far smaller man. It calls him the king of injustice
1:27:38
and he's carrying a golf club and some scales. And rather beautifully
1:27:44
because we've been doing the Emperor's New Clothes thing today, not for the first time, it's by a Danish artist
1:27:50
And of course, Hans Christian Andersen, who came up with the Emperor's New Clothes, is Danish
1:27:55
Jens Galciot, and the installation is titled The Orange Plague, covered entirely in 23-carat gold leaf
1:28:02
Probably the second election, the re-election of Donald Trump after we'd seen January the 6th
1:28:07
after we knew exactly who he was and what he was. And then we watched a majority in the United States of America say
1:28:14
yeah, why not let him have another go? That was mad, right? If you were wired a certain way
1:28:20
that could really, really hold you below the waterline. Jim's in Bath
1:28:25
Jim, what would you like to say? Hi, James. Hi, Jim. This is a caller
1:28:29
Welcome. I admire the talk today and what you do. Thank you
1:28:33
And you just, as the conversation goes on, I was thinking more and more things
1:28:38
But for me, all the things you've named, but climate change comes into play as well
1:28:43
You're hearing that on social media about the world's going this way
1:28:48
But for me, the COVID lockdown, I think, is something that we're still going to be researching and finding out what damage it's done
1:28:55
And particularly with young people, because they lost the sense of being part of communities, involving in groups
1:29:03
socializing and sort of things that I found with young people now that they're more isolated or
1:29:08
finding it harder to get into those groups again and that's where the anxiety is raised and then
1:29:14
you throw up everything else on top of that they're just looking at the world where's the positivity
1:29:18
and I kind of thinking it's more about those those role models we have we should have in our leaders
1:29:24
and we should have in in places the same there are good things going on there are not all negative but
1:29:29
But we have to talk about them. We have to acknowledge, actually, I'm finding this difficult and this is hard
1:29:35
I think you find it inside yourself as well sometimes. I think about this quite a lot because, well, two things
1:29:41
Number one, the statistics of it and the so-called NEATS issue and the isolation that you've just alluded to
1:29:47
but also a mum who I love very much, describing her daughter as being frightened of the world
1:29:54
And you find some of the stuff you're talking about in company
1:29:58
You know those magical moments where you're Your friend makes you laugh so much that you think you're not going to be able to breathe
1:30:03
Or when you have that sniff of freedom, whether you're going to the Odeon cinema with your mates for the first time
1:30:10
you've been allowed off the leash by your mum and you're 14, 15 years old
1:30:14
That word formative, you know, and now you show me a 19-year-old who's frightened to go to a job interview
1:30:20
or who's frightened to go on public transport. It's because they didn't do those things when they were 14
1:30:26
We're going to find out that more and more. I'm a believer that we should have five portions of fun a day, James
1:30:31
We have five portions of vegetables. We should all find our five portions of fun to alleviate
1:30:38
just find that wherever you can. It's a wonderful thing. There's formative years, is what I find
1:30:46
not just with the young people, but with us all at that time
1:30:50
We've lost that, and we've got to find that, and we've got to find those role models and that positivity
1:30:55
And the fun. I think you work with young people. Is that right? yeah I went with young people and it's very much about role modeling about what works well
1:31:02
yes we address what doesn't but what works well what you're doing well and actually fun and then
1:31:07
there's not enough fun we don't have enough fun James in the world we need to come back to having
1:31:11
more fun enjoyment it's a learned behavior actually that's why I keep thinking back to what you lose
1:31:17
by not being in that world when you were 14 by being consigned to barracks as it were confined
1:31:22
to barracks or being under lockdown and you did, so we knew what we were
1:31:26
missing, these kids never knew what they were missing, you know, they don't know
1:31:30
we don't know what we've got till it's gone they never had it in the first place
1:31:34
Yeah, and we just need to find that, acknowledge it and show them
1:31:38
show the way, show them the positivity but yeah, if I lose anything today
1:31:43
five portions of fun James Well let's have that, let's take that, five portions of fun
1:31:46
it's mystery hour next, so there's one big portion, that's probably three of your five a day
1:31:50
at least, if it goes according to normal service. Jim, take care, mate
1:31:56
Daniel's in Manchester. Daniel, what would you like to say? Good morning, James. Thanks for having me on
1:32:01
A little nervous and a bit caffeinated, so bear with me. Caffeinated? Go on
1:32:07
So I've lived with depression most of my life, like I'm 39 years old. And when you ask, like
1:32:13
what are these events that kind of stick with you? I mean, I generally pull back and say, let's look at the 21st century as a whole
1:32:19
so far. Yeah. Because it's kind of like a vibe that things are just generally
1:32:24
getting worse. And not just based on vibes, but you know, for me, discovering
1:32:29
things like, you know, climate change and biodiversity collapse and ecological overshoot
1:32:34
These things are just like terrifying and aren't really talked about. Yes
1:32:39
It was interesting, I was talking to your producer as well, and you mentioned
1:32:43
Brexit. Brexit was certainly a big one because it showed us how divided we can be
1:32:47
but also it was what got me kind of like politically involved so i guess there is
1:32:51
positive there a silver lining i mean is there never a temptation to turn off
1:32:55
because i'd speak to people and obviously i'm a bit torn on this if someone says to me i've
1:33:00
stopped following the news it's been brilliant for my mental health i say well yeah all right
1:33:04
it's not very good for my listening figures on the other i mean there is truth in that there is
1:33:09
truth like to step away from it for a time and people should make the effort to do that
1:33:12
step away for a bit, but don't disengage because when you disengage, that's how you get
1:33:17
to a point where you can just be lied to constantly and very easily manipulated
1:33:21
and that is the thing, isn't it? Somehow you can hang on to the idea that you're not being lied
1:33:25
to, that it's the other lot that have got derangement syndrome and in fact what's really going on is that
1:33:31
they're the people in that Leonardo DiCaprio film who don't look up, aren't they? Yes
1:33:35
You just don't look up. Some of us have to look up Some of us will always have to look up
1:33:39
You're one of them, I'm one of them, but I don't envy the people who don't look up i just wish that we stopped giving them so much airtime and
1:33:45
attention and power and so can i just make a point about like the increase in depression as well
1:33:51
when you look at like the recent like political party conferences that have been going on some
1:33:57
were pretty good some were not so good and it's like they're they're saying yes business as usual
1:34:02
you know we're going to grow the economy we're going to improve lives well i just say like put
1:34:07
put your mindset into someone who's like under 25 now, who's just watched the world burn this summer
1:34:14
They've watched the Northern Hemisphere on fire. And the message to them is
1:34:18
sorry, you can't use that degree to get a good job. Do you mind working in retail while everything falls to crap, you know
1:34:26
With a sort of side order of, come on, come on, pull your socks up, get out there
1:34:30
Stop malingering. And also, you're also the enemy. Young people, oh, aren't they just the problem of everything
1:34:36
It's like, well, how are they supposed to have any hope for the future
1:34:41
It's insane to me. Yeah, except that there's big and little, isn't there? So it's interesting that you come on after Jim
1:34:47
And Jim works with young men in particular who are really struggling with life
1:34:55
And he talks about the importance of fun. So you can both be right
1:34:59
Having a laugh is not going to solve climate change, but it is probably going to have an impact on the impact
1:35:09
that climate change has had on your mental health. So it may sound a bit odd, but I'm a big believer in finding those moments
1:35:15
that allow you to step away from the inevitable reactions to reality
1:35:22
that some of us feel, that some of us have. And for me, I said I'd tell you this, I still haven't done the blooming fruit flies
1:35:28
I have got into, and it's the maddest, most flipping hippie thing
1:35:32
and I never tell you stuff that I've got into until I've done it 20 or 30 times
1:35:37
because I'm one of those people luckily I don't go out and buy all the equipment
1:35:41
but I could easily have been one of those people whose garage was full of golf clubs
1:35:45
or bicycles or the full lycra I always wait until I've done it 20, 30 times
1:35:51
before I think this one's stuck I can be a little bit of a hobby jumper
1:35:57
and it's yoga, right? But not really taxing. It's called yin yoga, where you hold the pose for quite a long time
1:36:06
But the thing that really sends me home with an extraordinary sense of contentment and peace is sound baths
1:36:15
So I lie on my back in this room. Stop sing. It works, all right
1:36:20
I lie on my back in this room at the end of a relatively mild yoga workout
1:36:26
and the teacher sort of hits gongs and and rubs crystal bowls and just makes these mad noises
1:36:35
these beautiful noises and i swear to you you move into that liminal space that bit you know
1:36:41
that little bit of space between being awake and asleep i've never known anything like it i've been
1:36:46
doing it now for about six months and it's stuck and i now find myself on the days that i do it
1:36:55
I get to the end of the show and I think, oh, yes, I've got that tonight
1:36:59
Never want... An old mate of mine used to say he could always tell how good a play was
1:37:03
by how many times he looked at his watch or how good a film is by how many times he looked at his watch
1:37:09
I go to these things, never look at my watch. Last 20 minutes is when you have the sound bath
1:37:15
It's called a sound bath. And it comes around, I think, flippin' heck, is it time for that already
1:37:20
That, for me, absolutely takes me out of the spaces that can be draining or difficult or tough And if you said to me 10 years ago that I was going to be lying on my back listening to gongs I have laughed I mean I have laughed myself stupid
1:37:35
Anyway, speaking of laughing ourselves stupid, Mystery Hour after this. James O'Brien on LBC
1:37:42
It's 12.06 and Mystery Hour is upon us. Thank the Lord. I've got a couple of things
1:37:48
that I need to do before that though because I appreciate that sometimes it's funny when I forget to tell you things
1:37:53
that I've promised to tell you. but sometimes it's actually just really annoying. It was nuts yesterday how many people said
1:37:58
I thought it was just me with the fruit flies, the preponderance of fruit flies
1:38:02
There is a massive surge because of the unusually warm weather later in the year
1:38:07
So it's not just you that's got a problem with fruit flies. And I have got a solution to the problem
1:38:12
which I will share with you shortly. But first, let me just tell you a little bit about Mystery Hour
1:38:16
If you've not previously enjoyed this part of the week, it's really easy
1:38:22
It's surprisingly fun. people ring in with questions and then other people ring in to answer them you can ask pretty
1:38:29
much anything you want we try to avoid repetition but only really half-heartedly and we don't
1:38:34
generally like motoring questions although even that rule has kind of gone by the wayside
1:38:38
in recent years and when i say years i mean years because this has been going for as long as i mean
1:38:44
flippant i don't know how long it's been going for 15 years is it a very very long time more than 15
1:38:49
years possibly um and it is so successful and so popular that it has spawned its own
1:38:55
games off-air get like literal board games that you can buy or win you can win one by making my
1:39:02
favorite contribution of the day you can buy one by going to mysteryhour.co.uk and and when i say
1:39:07
games plural i mean it there's a board game and then there is a travel game it's in a tin
1:39:13
and they're both brilliant but don't take my word for it go and have a look for yourself
1:39:17
full terms and conditions for the competition are at lbc.co.uk what sort of questions work
1:39:24
anything you want really in fact I know for a fact that I don't need to do
1:39:29
because someone is going to there'll be someone out there let's get it out of the way early
1:39:33
George is in Coventry George question or answer I've got a question please James
1:39:38
carry on mate yeah I've been having quite a few problems with fruit flies lately
1:39:42
yeah I know it's a bit rogue I bet you weren't expecting it
1:39:46
No, I'm sorry. Do you know, it suddenly occurred to me then that we better do this first
1:39:50
because there'll be... I'm not suggesting for a minute that your course of action over the last five minutes
1:39:54
has been predictable, George, but otherwise the whole switchboard is going to fill up with people asking the same question, isn't it
1:39:59
Well, I'm glad I got in there first. No, you did indeed. And it is... Look, you can find it on YouTube
1:40:04
but I've done a few over the last couple of years, last couple of summers
1:40:09
It also... I don't know if you've got a hoarder in your house. I like to keep empty jam jars
1:40:13
for two reasons. reason number one is if you buy a big bag of spice i mean like the stuff you make curry with i'm not
1:40:21
taking drugs or anything like that you buy a big bag of spice um where are you going to keep it i'm
1:40:26
trying to keep cut down on plastics because of microplastics you've kept your jam jars you've
1:40:31
got a sealable glass jar with a nice metal lid you put your spices where you bought a load of cumin
1:40:36
powder or you bought a load of ground coriander um you want it to keep pungent so that so i keep jam
1:40:41
jars drives mrs o'brien nuts and then the other reason why i keep jam jars is because you never
1:40:47
know do you you never know that's the thing you see you never know when you might need a jam jar
1:40:52
and it turns out that a jam jar is just what you need to make a flute fry a flute fry a fruit fly
1:41:00
trap so here's what you do you get a hammer and a little nail and you get the metal lid of the jam
1:41:05
jar and you punch as many holes in it as you want as many as possible really it's a little bit time
1:41:10
consuming you've got to be a little bit careful um you don't want massive holes but but you must
1:41:15
puncture the metal to the point where you can blow through it so you then get a the best vinegar to
1:41:22
use and i know it's not the cheapest i just i presume any vinegar will do but you then put as
1:41:28
much in the jam jar as you fancy as much as you can really if it's a smaller jam jar you want it
1:41:33
to be quite near the top of apple cider vinegar and a quick squirt of washing up liquid
1:41:40
I used the fairy that is under the sink as opposed to the environmentally friendly stuff
1:41:45
that we're supposed to use, which is on top of the sink so a quick squirt of the fairy
1:41:49
apple cider vinegar, screw the lid back on and then leave it in the vicinity of
1:41:54
wherever the fruit flies are congregating which is most likely to be near a fruit bowl or near a bin
1:41:59
and make as many as you want I don't know how big your kitchen is
1:42:04
but you can probably get two or three or four of them
1:42:08
with depends how many jam jars you've got and and they work and you can tell that they work this is
1:42:13
the gross bit if you're having your lunch you can tell that they work because you give it a little shake later and there's loads of little black bits floating around inside it and that george
1:42:21
is how you make a fruit fly trap thank you very much i think i'll give myself a round of applause
1:42:27
lovely stuff thank you george is it raylioter territory i've never had a raylioter have i but
1:42:33
i can't i mean that's ridiculous i didn't come up with it myself um thank you george uh i think
1:42:38
we're up and running so if you've got a question that needs an answer and it doesn't involve fruit flies 03456060973 is the number that you need and be careful not to punch holes in your kitchen
1:42:50
table when you're doing that i did have a sort of do you ever do this do you ever imagine something
1:42:55
going wrong and then go through in your head how you'd actually explain it to your husband or wife
1:43:00
so I was punching the holes in the top of the jam jar lid
1:43:07
and I'd done it on the table I did it on the table and it was fine
1:43:11
I put a newspaper underneath but then I thought I actually went through in my head
1:43:15
how I would explain to Mrs O'Brien that I'd done it on the worktop we've got a kind of marble overhang
1:43:21
and if I'd done it on that and it had snapped off if I'd snapped off the marble
1:43:25
and tried to glue it back on I don't know why my brain does that to me
1:43:30
sometimes. It hasn't even happened and I'm going through how I would
1:43:33
cover it up if it did happen and then explain myself to my wife if
1:43:39
my cover-up hadn't been entirely successful. So don't do it on anything that is likely to be
1:43:44
damaged by the simple practice of nailing hammering holes in the top of a
1:43:48
jam jar lid. It's not the only thing I've got off YouTube in the
1:43:52
last few years. If you don't follow me on Blue Sky, you're not going to believe
1:43:56
what I did at my mum's house at the weekend. This is proper criminal mastermind stuff
1:44:02
And if I remember, I'll share it with you before home time. But first, Neil is in Saltburn
1:44:06
Neil, question or answer? It's a question, James. Carry on. I've thought about this
1:44:12
for a while, and it seems a bit of a silly question and an obvious
1:44:15
answer, but why do we like a nice view? It's not a silly question
1:44:20
at all. Well, thank you. What do you think the obvious answer is? Well, I've thought about the evolutionary side of things
1:44:26
that we're looking for predators or resources. So the more we can see, the more confident we can be
1:44:34
that there's not any sort of lions coming towards us. Yeah, but then again, people like the view of the Grand Canyon
1:44:41
where they can see for miles. We don't like heights. A lot of people don't like heights
1:44:46
And in a way, that's a similar thing. The higher up you are, the safer you should be
1:44:51
Yeah. I love that. Big skies for me actually oddly talking about lockdown in the last hour I halfway through the first lockdown I realized how much i was missing the skies in norfolk because we went to norfolk a lot before the lockdowns and something about the london view out of your window or your garden or even the park
1:45:10
it's constricted isn't it it's always constricted and then when i get to the big sky in norfolk
1:45:15
something inside me shifts something moves inside me well i read a book by um robert winston oh yes
1:45:22
This is Robert Winston, and I can't remember it exactly, but they showed schoolchildren lots of views of forests and lakes
1:45:28
and mountains and the African savannah. And the majority, I think about eight, picked the African savannah
1:45:35
Really? Yeah. Now, he was saying it could be, you know, from an evolutionary point of view
1:45:41
I thought they might have just been watching The Lion King, but it's certainly food for thought
1:45:47
Yes, it really is. What does it do to us? Yeah. what does it do to us i love that question you're on i like it a lot not stupid no thank you
1:45:56
perfect mystery our fair that what why do we respond why do we love beautiful views and not
1:46:02
just the mad ones you know like the grand canyon but but also sometimes you just come around the
1:46:08
corner in the countryside and it was on the train i've been on the train up and down to
1:46:12
kidderminster a lot lately and sometimes as you're going through the cotswolds you just get a clear
1:46:16
you get a window full and it could be an oil painting and it changes something inside
1:46:21
you but why does it why does it 0345 6060 973 we've done the fruit fly question
1:46:28
now we can do the views and of course after this we can do whatever question it is that you want to get on the board
1:46:32
and there are currently two phone lines free so don't hang about 0345 6060 973
1:46:40
it's 12.15 James O'Brien on LBC 17 minutes after 12 is the time
1:46:48
Lots of people sharing their own little fruit fly insights as well
1:46:53
Trust me, mine's the best. But, of course, you could use cling film over the top of the jar
1:46:57
You could do it in a glass. You could use a slice of lime and a mushroom, apparently, to attract them in. But if you want them to be eradicated
1:47:03
and they can't just come in, have a little sip, and then swim off again, fly off again
1:47:08
you need to do it my way. 17 minutes after 12. The other thing, no, I've done too much of that
1:47:13
Let's do this instead. Nigel's in Lansing. Nigel, question or answer? Hi, James. Good afternoon
1:47:17
Hello, mate. In the store holidays, I took my grandson, Jude, to an aquarium in Hastings
1:47:24
Very nice. I love an aquarium, and, you know, he's very into his knowledge and everything
1:47:30
Big fan of Mystery Hour. Oh, good man. Hi, Jude. Hi, Jude. Hey, Jude
1:47:35
Carry on. I'll see what you've done there. We were in the aquarium
1:47:40
It's one of those ones with the big tunnel, you know, which you can go in the tunnel through the big tank
1:47:44
I didn't know there was one in Hastings. Oh, yeah, it's pretty good. Not the best one I've ever been to, Denver, Colorado, but anyway
1:47:49
Oh, nice. In Hastings, you go in this big tunnel, there's all the big fish
1:47:54
the rays, the sharks and what have you. And the question is, why don't the big fish eat the little fish
1:48:02
Yeah. You think they're in, it's like, it's dreamland for them. It's like a buffet, isn't it
1:48:08
Oh, yeah. Everything's there. It's like Yo Sushi. Yeah, pretty much. On the conveyor belt, except they're still alive
1:48:13
Well, I mean, could it be because they're quite well fed? So they're not hungry
1:48:22
It could be. It could be that, but... I mean, I'm trying to think
1:48:32
Isn't there one thing that eats even if it's full? But most creatures..
1:48:36
That would be me. Yeah, you and me both, actually. I mean aquariums are really managed
1:48:45
environments aren't they? Really carefully looked after so the big fish are never hungry
1:48:49
and that's why they don't eat the little fish I mean it probably happens occasionally I mean it'd be quite exciting wouldn't it if you just did
1:48:54
actually witness a proper nature red in tooth and claw moment and one of the big fish
1:48:58
it's gone. I think the keepers go in in the morning and hoping that there's
1:49:02
you know the little fish are still there a quick count, a quick audit
1:49:06
a fish audit. Anyway Jude would like to know the answer so if you can
1:49:10
I will. I shall put it on the board. But if I'm right, Jude, then I will be taking half of the round of applause on this
1:49:15
And the simple reason would be because they're not hungry. But we like that, Nigel, and we like that, Jude
1:49:19
Take care and thank you. This is a good aquarium in Birmingham as well, actually
1:49:23
20 minutes after 12 is the time. Why does humans respond so powerfully to beautiful views
1:49:32
And why don't all the big fish in aquaria... Is it aquaria or aquariums
1:49:36
Anyway, why don't all the big fish eat all the little fish? Paul is in Haddington in Scotland
1:49:40
Paul, question or answer? A question, James. Carry on. Last night, we lit a few candles over dinner
1:49:49
Special occasion, or are you just saving on electricity? Myself and the wife having a romantic dinner
1:49:57
And I lit the wick on the candles, and the wick produced a flame
1:50:02
The wick produced a flame. And I was wondering, why does the rest of the wax not go on fire
1:50:07
since it's combustible. Well, it's not combustible. If you take the wax off a candle
1:50:12
the used candle, and put it into a fire, it'll go on fire. It'll produce a bright flame
1:50:17
But when you light a candle, it's only the wick that produces the flame and not the rest of the wax
1:50:23
Yeah, I mean, if you throw it in a fire, it will create a flame. But that's not the same as if you can't light it
1:50:30
Well, there's a flame right above a combustible material. Yeah, but you can't light..
1:50:35
So if you take the wick out of a candle, You will never be able to light that candle
1:50:41
Why is that? Well, because it's not combustible. It would catch at a higher temperature
1:50:47
than a wick or a match could ever achieve, i.e. when you throw it into a raging fire
1:50:54
That's true of most things, isn't it? Yes, true. So I think it's got a higher ignition point
1:51:03
Hasn't it? Okay. This is one of those moments where I think something's really obvious
1:51:07
so I say it with my full chest, and then just as I get to the end of it
1:51:12
I start thinking, maybe he's got a point that I'm completely missing
1:51:16
But I like my wickless candle point. If I take the wick out of a candle, you're never going to be able to light it
1:51:21
I mean, you could probably light it off a nuclear explosion, but you're never going to be able to light it off a match or a lighter
1:51:27
are you? But it does, yeah, true. So that's it. And you can put a match to diesel and it won't catch fire
1:51:33
but obviously it has an ignition point, otherwise we wouldn't be able to power cars with it
1:51:39
Okay. I will accept that. Thank you very much. I mean, I wasn't looking for another round of applause
1:51:44
here, but I think I deserve one. Good job I didn't take Jude's on the fish question
1:51:48
Thank you very much. 22 minutes after 12. Speaking of candles, hands up if you put the heating on yesterday
1:51:54
for the first time. Don't give me all this malarkey about, oh, we've got a thermostat
1:51:58
It comes on automatically. Why do you have to make a decision about whether to turn it on or not? I don't know why. I just do
1:52:04
Alright? Mrs. O'Brien was out. which probably played a part in the procedures
1:52:08
And I just see it's flipping cold. It's very parky. I'm going to just turn the heating on
1:52:12
make sure everything's all right. You know, just hands up. Who else turned the heating on yesterday
1:52:16
for the first time this year? Really? Well, that's extraordinary. Simone is in Surrey Quays
1:52:22
Simone, question or answer? Question. Carry on How do birds know that I put out the seed for them So I put out seed yeah Yeah
1:52:35
Randomly, now and again. Well, more than now and again, but I do it
1:52:39
Yeah. So there's no birds around, and all of a sudden I put out seed
1:52:44
and five minutes later there's 40 birds. They turn up. Yeah. How does he know
1:52:50
I think it's on Twitter. Is it? Yeah, I think that's how it works
1:52:54
well you know they sing don't they because i do this as well i mean have you started putting them
1:53:00
out again now are you putting seeds out again now because i took something you're supposed someone told me you're supposed to take summer off you don't need to do it over the summer and it can
1:53:07
actually be quite unhealthy in the summer to be feeding birds i put it out yesterday so good for
1:53:12
you did you turn the heating on yes first time was it yesterday yeah boom look at this is magic
1:53:19
radio this is. This is why we win none of the awards. What
1:53:24
do you think happens? The birds tell each other, don't they? Well
1:53:30
I have lots of trees around, so I was thinking they're spying on me or something
1:53:35
They're flying around the place, and they see one bird, because sometimes
1:53:39
they don't come immediately. Sometimes, you know, it takes a while, but once you've got enough hungry birds
1:53:45
around, and one of them is singing, eating and singing, or even just see. They just see it. They see it
1:53:51
But do they have massive eyes or what? It's like, you know what I mean
1:53:54
How do they see it from such a distance? They fly nearby. They don't have massive
1:53:59
eyes. They just fly nearby. I'm flying around. I'm flying over your garden
1:54:03
And I think, I might just check because there's some there sometimes. There isn't any there. Oh, hello
1:54:07
Here's some. And then all the other birds come piling in. Right. Okay, that
1:54:11
makes sense. Yeah, another round of it. I'm going to leave this one on the board, I think, Simone. I think you possibly
1:54:15
deserve a slightly more sophisticated answer. Okay. Yes, please. All right. How do birds know that Simone, or indeed anybody else
1:54:24
we can't make it specific to Simone, that Simone has put bird seed out
1:54:28
because they won't go anywhere near the bird feeder and then when there's feed in it, it will fill up
1:54:32
25 minutes after 12 is the time. Extraordinary number of people who turned the heating on for the first time yesterday
1:54:40
and only one misery guts going, oh, you're a millionaire, you don't need to worry about heating bills
1:54:45
It's a bit of fun, Kathleen. It's just a bit of fun. Obviously, I make no bones about the fact that I'm comfortably off
1:54:53
But asking whether you've turned the heating on is not really an opportunity to start indulging in ludicrous class war
1:55:00
Harry's in Dartford. Harry, question or answer? Question, please. Carry on, Harry
1:55:05
Why do we go nose blind? What are you talking about? So, if me and my girlfriend go shopping for quite a while, so she's quite a shopper
1:55:15
So when we go into Lush, you can smell it first when you get the initial hit of all the scents
1:55:22
But then after a while, because by the time she's finished, we've smelt the whole shot
1:55:27
You can no longer smell it. Well, because if you worked there, you would obviously get used to it
1:55:35
Get used to it is probably the answer. But what's actually going on? It's probably your brain
1:55:41
So your nose is still smelling it. but your brain is sort of going, yeah, all right, I've got that now
1:55:46
Calm down. You don't need to keep sending that message to the brain
1:55:50
that this is a beautiful smell of watermelon or some such. Okay, that's interesting
1:55:57
Well, I mean, I'm not giving myself a round of applause for that, but, I mean, Lush is a perfect example
1:56:01
because you can spell it from three streets away. Exactly, yeah. Beautiful shop, though
1:56:06
We had Mark Constantine, one of the co-founders, on Full Disclosure this year, and it's a really good episode of Full Disclosure
1:56:12
but he brought some freebies in for us and I took them home
1:56:16
And we hadn't been in Lush since the girls were young and they used to love the bath bombs
1:56:21
But my goodness me. Are you sure that's not yourself? No, I don't. I'm a shower man all day long
1:56:25
Oh, nice. Nice and quick. Girls loved the bath bombs. But I took some of the grown-up stuff home
1:56:32
It's magnificent gear, isn't it? The Lush gear. Yeah. The creams and the ungents and the shampoos
1:56:38
His first thing, He started off in making hair products, like literally in a sort of home laboratory
1:56:46
And now he makes his own perfume. It's a fascinating business, Lush. One of my absolute favorites on the high street
1:56:51
And that question of why do... I mean, it happens at the other end of the spectrum, doesn't it
1:56:55
Sometimes does your girlfriend never walk into the kitchen and go, flipping heck, what have you been doing in here
1:57:00
And you can't smell anything. Yeah, stinky fish, that's what it is
1:57:04
Stinky fish, and we won't even talk about the other room. but yeah okay so what's going on there when you when your nose stops smelling apparently your nose
1:57:12
stops smelling even though if someone fresh arrived in exactly the same place they'd go
1:57:17
flipping hey that smells good or indeed bad harry take care luke is in sheffield luke question or
1:57:22
answer it's an answer james carry on um it's in relation to your aquarium question yes um this
1:57:29
one's for jude yeah you're absolutely right the reason is that they're they're incredibly well fed
1:57:34
and they're also really lazy so they don't expel the energy to go and get the food when they know
1:57:39
the food's coming there's literally no point in doing it so they've got a sort of psychological
1:57:42
complacency in place we don't need to chase that little fish over there because
1:57:46
some something happens every day they just open this hole over there and loads of food comes in
1:57:51
exactly and people think they don't they don't learn but they know like keepers they they know
1:57:56
when they're going to get fed and stuff like that so they're pretty intelligent so yeah that's what happens. Qualifications
1:58:01
I've written a dissertation for the National Marine Aquarium on predatory species. Wow
1:58:05
So there are predatory species in the aquaria. Oh, absolutely. But they don't eat because they're not hungry
1:58:12
No, that's essentially it. What is the plural of aquarium? Aquarii? You don't know
1:58:17
You've done a flippin' dissertation on it, Luke. What nonsense were you
1:58:21
writing about if it wasn't a question of plurals? I wrote one aquarium
1:58:25
I didn't need to use the plural of aquarium. Oh, clever clogs. Yeah, all right
1:58:29
That's why you got the qualifications and I haven't. Aquari-R. Aquari-R, I reckon
1:58:33
Aquari-R. Okay, we can look at that. Anyway, you get yourself a round of applause. Lovely stuff
1:58:37
Cheers. Thank you. No, thank you. There it is, Jude. They're full, mate
1:58:41
So what you need to do, if you want to see some carnage in an aquarium, you have to slip, and you can tell Grandad this
1:58:48
Was it Grandad Nigel? It was, wasn't it? You can tell Grandad just to slip a few quid to the aquarium worker
1:58:55
and say, don't feed the fish on Friday. I'm bringing my grandson Jude in on Saturday
1:59:01
And if they don't feed... No, this is a terrible thing to suggest. What on earth am I talking about
1:59:05
I'm going to cause a scandal. A Hastings Aquarium becomes a bloodbath
1:59:10
and traumatised children have been carried out by their devoted grandpa. What a..
1:59:14
Can we rewind that and pretend it never happened? It's half past 12
1:59:19
And Dominic Ellis has your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC. 12.33 is the time
1:59:27
Why do humans respond emotionally to beautiful views? We've done that one
1:59:33
We've done that one. How do birds know that you've filled up your bird feeders
1:59:39
I think that's pretty obvious. And what happens in your brain when you stop smelling stuff
1:59:43
Harry called it nose blindness, which is not a phrase I've heard before
1:59:46
but it does the job. Carl is in Hemel Hempstead. Carl, question or answer? Question
1:59:51
Carry on. Why is the number three used all the time? When you go..
1:59:56
Give me a second, I'm going to try and explain what I mean. Good
2:00:00
Yeah, that'd be great. Because it'd be really confusing if we didn't use it. You'd go straight from two to four
2:00:05
and you wouldn't be able to keep count of this. No, but you go ready, steady, go
2:00:10
Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. And then you go one, two, three, go. Yeah
2:00:15
You keep, and you do it in a bunch of others. Is that all you've got? Is that all you've got? That's all I've got
2:00:19
It was a really special, it was a really poor question, but I thought I'd get on and try
2:00:23
One, two, three. Well, it's not music. You go one, two, three, four
2:00:27
Yeah, but why not go on two? Why not go on four
2:00:32
Well, musicians would know that. But we're going for ready, steady, go is probably a better end
2:00:36
On your marks, get set, go. Go. Yeah, why three? Why is it always three
2:00:42
It's chicken and egg, isn't it? Because it could be because of how races start
2:00:45
So you get that they worked out. You get down on your hands and knees and then you push off
2:00:49
You get the best, fastest start. So that's in three. Ready? Down on your hands and knees
2:00:54
Get set. Up on your top leg. Go! Boom! Yeah, but why not on two
2:00:59
What? Why not on two? Because it's three things. Yeah, but why does it have to be three things
2:01:05
Well, this is why I mean it's chicken and egg. Because it might come from racing
2:01:10
It might come from sprinting. It's like, so one, two, three, ready, steady, go
2:01:15
Yeah, I think this question is living proof I should get out more. Are you asking why three is the magic number
2:01:23
Correct. Why is three the magic number? Yeah, Y-Straight, the magic number
2:01:27
Yeah, all right. I'll tell you what, I've dealt our soul ring in. I'll give them the money myself
2:01:31
Nice one, Carl. Why do we do it in threes? The things that we do in threes
2:01:37
I mean, the animals came in two by two, so it's not all about the threes, is it
2:01:41
But ready, steady, go. One, two, three. Boom. Yeah, you do a surprise for someone
2:01:46
It'd be one, two, three. On three. One, two, three. Michelle's in County Durham
2:01:51
Michelle, question or answer? Hello, it's the question, Jim. Hello, Michelle. Hello. The question is, so I like table salt, just normal run-of-the-mill table salt
2:02:01
and my partner likes rock salt or sea salt. And I just wanted to know, is there any nutritional value in the difference of them
2:02:10
I mean, I don't like it because it's crunchy. It's just too big and crunchy. You can put it in a grinder
2:02:16
Well, that's extra time, isn't it, in effort? But I'm just thinking, is he getting something better from it than I'm getting
2:02:21
Yes. You know, the cheapy old table salt? Yes, he is. I know this. And I actually do know this. I love cooking. And I've signed up to the New York Times website. And they often specify in American recipes kosher salt. And I thought, well, I can't get, does that have to be blessed by a rabbi or something? How am I going to get kosher salt for cooking a meal in Brentford
2:02:44
and so I've done a bit of research, I'm delighted to tell you and it's the same as what your partner likes
2:02:50
it's like Epsom salt or mineral salt or rock salt or sea salt
2:02:55
and the salt you prefer has got a combination of things in it
2:03:01
that would include iodine and I think caking agent to stop it from caking
2:03:08
there you go, there's a clue in the title so yes, his is healthier than yours
2:03:12
It's better, right. Okay, then I guess he wins. He does. Am I taking that as a definite answer
2:03:17
What do you mean? How much more qualification? I mean, that sounded so persuasive and convincing, didn't it
2:03:23
It did, actually. But you're also wrong. I mean, it doesn't taste as nice
2:03:28
It's just a texture thing for you, is it? Probably. It's just a bit too big and crunchy
2:03:32
I'll maybe grind it in the future then, actually. Well, I mean, I recommend it
2:03:36
On chips, though, you probably just want malt vinegar. you don't want any of these fancy schmancy vinegars
2:03:43
in fact what you want is the chip shop condiment that's not even vinegar if you want it
2:03:47
to be completely but on chips you probably just want some sacks
2:03:51
of table salt don't you other table salts are available but you don't want to be
2:03:55
crunching sea salt on your chips that's right yeah yeah but you do on your roast potatoes
2:04:00
you've opened up a right can of right a round of applause for me please Robin
2:04:04
thank you roast potatoes you wouldn't be putting table salt on your roast potatoes for the
2:04:10
the final sort of 10, 20 minutes. But a lovely bit of rock salt
2:04:15
What's it called? What's it called? Epsom salt? What's it got a name on the box? Epsom salt, not table salt, not mineral salt
2:04:20
It's got a special name on it. Rock salt? Is it rock salt? Anyway, there you go
2:04:25
Brad's in pool. Brad, question or answer? Answer, please, James. Carry on, Brad
2:04:30
I'm afraid I don't know the question. That's all right. But I heard you rattling on about candles
2:04:37
What do you mean rattling on? That's outrageous. You know, Keith's on holiday at the moment in the United States
2:04:43
Yeah, show some respect, Brad. Keith sent a picture from his American adventure of a Waffle House to me yesterday
2:04:50
You know the American chain of Waffle Houses? He sent me a picture of a branch of Waffle House with the caption
2:04:56
Thinking of you. Brilliant. And then you come on and accuse me of rattling on
2:05:00
That's outrageous. Go on. What was I rattling on about this time? Right
2:05:04
The wick in a candle is definitely combustible. It's just a bit of string. but I'm going to blow your mind a little bit
2:05:10
solids and liquids do not burn only gases can burn so it's only once everything's been heated up
2:05:20
to reach its gaseous phase that it will burn including things like petrol
2:05:24
so it's the gas that's burning not the liquid it might look like the liquid's burning
2:05:30
but it's actually the gas in the very close proximity of the liquid
2:05:35
because it's just literally sublimated If you look really carefully at a candle wick
2:05:39
you see that the flame doesn actually touch it So what burning there The gas from the wax or the gas from the wick The gas it wax gas passing up the wick
2:05:50
and then fuming off from the top of the wick. Why does the wick go down then
2:05:56
Why does it char? Because it's just a bit of string. Yeah, but it burns. Yeah, it does
2:06:01
But it's solid. Yeah, but it's being heated up at the point of the flame front
2:06:08
So the wick is becoming a gas as well. got it yeah um you can see it even on even on log fires you can see that the flame doesn't touch
2:06:17
the wood there's a slight gap and then of course if you throw the whole thing onto the fire and it
2:06:22
burns it's because it's reached a high enough temperature for the for the wax to turn into gas
2:06:27
and it's the gas that's actually burning yeah the wax gas is coming off every part of the candle at
2:06:32
that time so it goes off like a fire cracker and the great experiment with kids is to get a candle
2:06:38
and put a fork on the wick and you can lift the flame away from it
2:06:44
Oh yeah, of course you can. I love that. You can use a fork to lift the flame up because you're just removing the flame from the gas
2:06:50
It's like a little magic trick for the kids. Yeah, they love it. Qualifications? I'm a fire engineer of 20 years
2:06:57
That'll do nicely. Round of applause for Brad, please. Thank you very much. Less of the rattling on next time, mate
2:07:03
12, then go to you. Shabs Shabs is in Bracknell Shabs question or answer
2:07:09
question please change so this question comes by way of my wife
2:07:15
and she's too nervous to ask you because she loves you so much and I'm sure it's probably been asked before
2:07:21
because it sounds like quite a basic question but question is what have bees got to do
2:07:27
with sewing and spelling I knew this it's gone you know when you know something
2:07:33
but you know you're not going to be able to drag. You know what, James? I had so much confidence that you would know this
2:07:37
I'm so sorry. What's your wife's name? Manny. I'm more sorry to Manny
2:07:41
because she's probably got more faith in me than you have. I'm more sorry of Manny
2:07:46
But give me one second. Sure. A B, a spelling bee, a B, a B, a B
2:07:51
I know it's in there somewhere. It is in there. I think we may have done it before
2:07:55
I play spelling bee every day on the New York Times website
2:07:59
Yeah. And when you go, it's not going to happen. Why are they called bees
2:08:03
Yeah, I tried doing the sounds of a bee and trying to get to it
2:08:07
but I just can't figure it out. A spelling bee, a spelling bee, a bee, a bee, a bee
2:08:11
There's nothing there. They've got nothing there. All right, well, someone's going to know the answer to that
2:08:16
It's quite an American thing, isn't it? Yeah, it is. But it's over here
2:08:20
All right, nice one. Love to manage, Abs. All right? Thank you. Thank you
2:08:24
12.42 is the time. I don't know why I'm going on about Epsom. It's not Epsom. It's Maldon salt I'm thinking of
2:08:29
Maldon salt. Epsom salt. Do you know what? I get my Epsom salt in TK Maxx and chuck it in the bath
2:08:35
That's what it's for. So the girls like it. So I buy it in TK Maxx and stick it in the bathroom
2:08:41
But Malden salt, that's what I was thinking about. That's your kind of the best salt
2:08:47
Although I have to say that sometimes when we're in the Peloponnese, we harvest our own sea salt
2:08:52
Did you know that, Tristram? We do. We harvest our own sea salt. I got a couple of phone lines free
2:08:58
0345 6060 973 is the number you need. Sam's in Amersham. Sam, question or answer
2:09:04
Afternoon, James. I've got an answer for you. Let's do it. So it's about the views
2:09:09
and why do we enjoy an open view? Yes. So your questioner was right in the sense
2:09:15
that it is something that comes from our ancient lives when we used to be cave people
2:09:23
Really? And we enjoyed having that prospect, that open view across the landscape
2:09:29
being able to see possible gain for hunting, being able to see possible threats from wild animals
2:09:35
or other peoples who might come to attack us. But it's part of the prospect refuge theory
2:09:41
which we use in garden design as a way of thinking about
2:09:45
how do we find a space that is comfortable for us to sit in. So if you think about a cave
2:09:51
you've got something protective around the back of you, and that means that you're not going to be attacked
2:09:55
from the rear in surprise. so we like to position seating areas for example with something structural behind us so we feel
2:10:05
comfortable and cozy but with an open view to the front but a view of what why is a view of a
2:10:11
beautiful valley more more pleasing to us than the view of a car park well we like to be able to see
2:10:18
what's coming so an open view rather than an enclosed view so that doesn't matter what it is
2:10:23
whether it's fields or beaches or skies or... I mean, the bigger it is and the more open it is
2:10:29
the bigger the better. The more pleasing it is. If you've got an enclosed view, you could have predators coming out of jungle, for example
2:10:34
that might attack you. So if you can't see what's around the corner, it's intriguing
2:10:38
but it's also potentially dangerous. And heights? I suppose heights because we can fall from them
2:10:42
so that's why we're frightened of heights. Yeah, so if you think about that cave
2:10:46
it's cosy and safe because it's protected from certain angles, but you've got that overhead prospect
2:10:53
if you're looking out from a height across the savannah. I like this
2:10:57
But a height that is unprotected might make you feel scared. Why do we like views
2:11:01
Because they're big, really. The bigger the view, the more it appeals to us, especially if we've got something solid behind us
2:11:08
Yeah, so the prospect refuge theory is quite a key thing you learn when you're studying spatial design
2:11:14
and thinking about where to place things in a garden or a landscape setting
2:11:18
That's nice. I think you've given us a clue, but what are your qualifications? well as you know I'm a qualified
2:11:24
accredited and multi award winning garden designer including several mystery hour rounds of applause Thank you so much Thank you so much
2:11:36
Did I ask you this last time? What did I ask you last time? I know we talked
2:11:41
about Brussels sprouts last time. No, it's not that. How do you rescue a fern? What should I do with my ferns
2:11:46
We talked about tree ferns and watering them from the top. That was it. I've been doing that but one of them
2:11:51
is still not looking very healthy. Oh. There are specialist feeds. I'm going to get a specialist feed
2:11:58
I'm going to do that. The other one looks incredible. It could model if there was a call for ferns that are models
2:12:06
which, of course, there isn't. But the other ones, they're looking very manky. Thank you, Sam
2:12:10
It's 12.46. James O'Brien on LBC. 12.49 is the time. And questions still need answers, including nose blindness
2:12:21
1, 2, 3, why do we do things in threes? spelling bees and birdseed
2:12:25
and probably some others as well. Pete's in Hove. Pete, question or answers? Hi James
2:12:29
how are you? I'm good mate, what have you got? Good, yeah good. Question, it's not motoring
2:12:34
I promise, kind of. I travel up from Hove up to Surrey
2:12:37
once a week, maybe once every couple of weeks on the M23, M25. No, that's motoring, that's motoring
2:12:42
No, no. Why are you telling me then? Why are you telling me then? And when I travel up
2:12:47
you hardly see any cars broken down going to work and I hardly see any cars coming back
2:12:51
work. I've been trying to ring you since March, April, when we had loads of rain
2:12:55
On this particular day in April, it absolutely poured the rain going up
2:12:59
and I saw six or seven vehicles broken down with flat tyres
2:13:03
You couldn't tell whether they'd got flat tyres or not. You could not
2:13:07
In that March, you were going slow, 30, 40 miles an hour, and you could see on the offside
2:13:11
or the near side, they had flat tyres. You couldn't see the offside. Did my day's work, did my day's work, came back
2:13:17
Again, six or seven vehicles, flat tyres. Is your theory based on
2:13:21
a single day. And it was pouring with rain. Yeah, but it is based
2:13:25
on one day. I've not been up and down when it's been pouring with rain again
2:13:29
So that is the question. Why do cars get more flat tyres when it rains on one day
2:13:33
No, on any given day. But you've only seen it on one day. Well, I've not driven up when it's been pouring with rain again
2:13:39
Exactly. You've got one day. I mean, it could be something specific to that day. They could have been
2:13:43
or the breakdown trucks could have been off on that day. On both sides of the road
2:13:47
Yes. Seven, eight hours later coming back I saw a dozen plus vehicles
2:13:51
with flat tyres? Why do pouring rain cause flat tyres? Simple question. It's not
2:13:57
a simple question, though. A, it's motoring. It's motoring. I know you don't like motoring. And B
2:14:03
I think it's actually important to establish the parameters of this question, and I don't think
2:14:09
you've got enough research to arrive at the conclusion that the question
2:14:13
is predicated upon. Well, I only got the research of that one day
2:14:16
Exactly. That's a fact. 12 vehicles, 12 vehicles plus flat tyres in
2:14:21
the pouring rain. But one swallow does not a summer make, does it? Well, there we go. You can't just
2:14:27
say it's summer. I haven't seen it since on hot summer days and dry. Is it
2:14:32
I mean, it could have been. The reason why I'm interested in the day, the only
2:14:36
day, because it could have been a shed load. Could have been a
2:14:40
nail delivery. Or a drawing pin. A drawing pin delivery. Drawing pins get blown away
2:14:49
Of course it does. The drawing pins get picked up by the rain and they swash
2:14:52
over to the other side of the carriageway? If that's the answer, that's the answer
2:14:56
We will never know. Potholes? We need a tyre expert to tell us. Correlation is not causation
2:15:03
of course. We need a tyre expert to tell us the answer. Why do cars
2:15:07
get more flat tyres when it's raining? Pouring rain. According to Pete. Alright mate, nice one
2:15:13
Well played. Steve's in Portsmouth. Steve, question or answer? Answer mate. Let's do it
2:15:19
Here's the birds. it's not as simple as you think of them seeing it
2:15:24
birds are a very intelligent species they know the environment believe it or not they can detect food
2:15:31
they can see it, they can smell it and they can hear it
2:15:36
they'll see the feeder from a distance they'll come flying in they'll hear the sound of you tipping the seed in
2:15:44
and they'll smell the seed itself and on top of that they literally learn about us, our behaviours
2:15:53
They know at a certain time of day you will come out and put food in
2:15:57
So they'll hang around and say, oh, there's our person, time for food
2:16:02
And they'll hear you fill in the feeder. And so all of these things are triggers
2:16:07
triggers in their little bird brains that tell them there is food on the way. And do they tell each other as well
2:16:13
Nine times out of ten, it's because they're a flock one. They normally put a spotter in
2:16:19
Okay. You'll have a, say for sparrows, they'll have a spotter in three or four gardens
2:16:25
The first time he spots the food, you can fly him back, get the rest of the flock
2:16:29
and they'll all descend on where the feeder is. How lovely. And they actually train us
2:16:36
They'll actually come outside and hang around in the trees and make a load of noise
2:16:40
because they think, you normally feed us at eight o'clock, but he hasn't fed us yet
2:16:44
so why haven't he fed us? like the cats do yeah isn't it i love that i'm going to fill up my feeders this weekend i think
2:16:51
steve they've been i'll tell you what mate if you start feeding them out with an empty garden give
2:16:55
it half an hour and they'll be loads there well it's been empty all summer so the only problem is
2:16:59
i bought some special feeders actually to keep the parakeets out because the parakeets come in like
2:17:03
like um yeah they're in the parks you know they're in the park took me ages to get the goldfinch
2:17:09
this like this last um spring but they came in the end i be all right i on qualifications I got a degree in biology and a PhD in microbiology Well there you go Round of applause for Steve
2:17:21
Dr. Steve, in fact, to you. There we go. Thank you. George is in Coventry. George, question or answer
2:17:27
I've got an answer this time, please, James. Let's do it, George. Yes, an answer to why we go nose blind
2:17:33
Oh, yes. That's the thing, is it? He didn't just make it up. Harry didn't just make that word
2:17:37
It is a thing. so it's something called sensory adaptation and it's an evolutionary thing
2:17:44
but basically think about how many different stimuli we have to all of our senses all the time
2:17:50
if we were constantly aware of all of them we'd be overwhelmed so you can't feel your clothes on you for example
2:17:56
all the time because it's unnecessary information so our brains have just developed the ability to
2:18:01
and speaking of brains neurons, neurodivergent people often do struggle to cope
2:18:08
with things like clothes or having a label in the back of a jacket or something like that
2:18:12
Exactly. But generally speaking, it's not necessary to be aware of these things all the time
2:18:16
So we just filter them out. So the brain is essentially telling the nose to stop shouting
2:18:20
Yeah, pretty much. Love it. Qualifications? So there's two. I'm a final year medical student and I'm quite interested in neurology
2:18:26
But I also, funnily enough, once upon a time, watched a very interesting YouTube video on a channel called Vsauce
2:18:31
Oh, yeah. where it tried to answer the question of, and it's a silly question, but it was
2:18:36
why can't we constantly smell our own noses? Why aren't we smelling the inside of our own noses all the time
2:18:41
It's right up our street, isn't it? I'm amazed no one's ever done that. And it's the same answer
2:18:45
It's the same answer. It's just not relevant information, so you filter it out. Otherwise, it would drive you mad
2:18:49
You will know the brain. I mean, it's extraordinary what the brain does
2:18:53
It is. Even little things like that. So why don't I do that? But the brain takes a lot of energy
2:18:58
and it can't be wasting energy on unnecessary things. Love it. Love it
2:19:01
Love it, love it. Have a round of applause, George. Thank you very much. Julius is in Bethnal Green. Julius, question or answer
2:19:09
Answer, please, James. Carry on, Julius. It's to do with why you get punches in the rain
2:19:16
You don't, do you? You're much more likely to get punches in the rain because
2:19:21
in industry, when they cut rubber, they use water to lubricate the blade
2:19:28
Right. Because it's a perfect lubricant. Yeah. So when it's raining, the other thing is that the glass
2:19:36
one of the other things, the glass then sticks to the tyre more easily
2:19:40
so it goes round and round and gets driven slowly through the tyre
2:19:44
but the water lubricates the puncture, letting it be pushed through the tyre
2:19:50
So a little bit of glass on the road is going to stick to the tyre when it's wet
2:19:55
Yes. And also, the water is going to lubricate the glass chipping's passage through the rubber
2:20:03
Yes, and the third thing is that when it's not raining and you see glass on the road
2:20:09
it glitters, and you avoid it. And when it is raining, it gets..
2:20:13
The whole road glitters, and you can't see the glass. I mean, the last bit, I think, is the least relevant of the three
2:20:20
You'd think so, but as a cyclist, it's very relevant. So you notice it when you're on a bicycle and you steer clear of the glass
2:20:26
Well, I'm not still tired, so you have to be a lot more careful of... So, I mean, between you and me, Julius
2:20:33
I think I owe Pete an apology. I'm sorry, I didn't catch what Pete said
2:20:39
He asked the question and I kind of told him he was daft. No, no, it's definitely a thing
2:20:45
Right, well, I'm sorry, Pete. And thank you, Julius. Qualifications? a bicycle mechanic
2:20:51
and just a very experienced cyclist that'll do nicely, round of applause
2:20:55
what was the other thing oh just just very handsome, I think about things and the way they happen
2:21:05
thoughtful, thoughtful, you're a very thoughtful man, very thoughtful, you're in good
2:21:09
company Julius thank you very much, thank you very much 12.50, squeeze in one more, Chris is in hold, Chris question or answer
2:21:15
answer for the tyre question The tyre question? Yeah, about the punctures
2:21:20
All right. So it's an addition to that. So when it rains, especially on the motorway
2:21:26
this sounds like a motoring question, though, doesn't it? This one really does. That's why I shouldn't have apologised to Pete, actually
2:21:31
I take that back. Pete, forget it, mate. I'm not sorry at all. Carry on
2:21:35
So when it rains, most roads, especially in the UK, are cambered towards the left-hand side of the road
2:21:41
So when it rains, any debris that builds up on the road will naturally get washed across the roadway
2:21:46
So you're going to have more light. So that adds to Julius's theory. There's more likely to be bits of glass
2:21:51
getting washed onto the road during the raining. So Pete was right, but it is a motoring question
2:21:57
It is a motoring question, really, yeah. All right, qualifications? 12 years as a roadside patrol for the AA
2:22:04
Oh, nice one. Have a round of applause. Cheers, thank you. Is it a rain question or a motoring question
2:22:10
I think it's a motoring question. Yeah, and you work for the AA. I can't argue with you, can I? You're a very nice man
2:22:14
it is 12.59 and that is it from me for today apologies to anybody still waiting for answers
2:22:20
or to get questions on but guess what we'll be back next week at 12 oh who gets the thing
2:22:26
who gets the prize Carl Carl 123 Carl because he didn't get an answer and he made me smile
2:22:36
if you missed any of today's show you can listen back on our free global player app or the LBC app
2:22:40
where you can also stay up to date with all the latest news videos and opinions you can listen to a range of podcasts
2:22:44
including James O'Brien Daily, the best bits from my LBC show every day. Download the official LBC app for free from your app store now
2:22:50
Coming up at four on LBC, it's Tom Sawbreak. But any critiques today
2:22:54
Anything else? Not at all, no, no. Okay, but now it's time for Tina arty. Thank you. James O'Brien on LBC
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