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Lewis Goodall is joined by Liberal Democrat MP Sarah Olney and Labour MP Jess Phillips to speak on the three by-elections taking place on 18th June. They discuss Burnham's Makerfield chances, Starmer's refusal to step aside, and the what the political landscape will look like after this historic by-election. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #lewisgoodall #labour #LBC #jessphillips #labour #reformuk LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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Joining me live in the studio now here in Westminster, Sarah Olney, who's the Lib Dem MP for Richmond Park
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and Jess Phillips, Labour MP for Birmingham, Yardley, and until recently, of course, the former minister for safeguarding and violence against women and girls
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Jess, I'll come to you in a minute. Sarah, we haven't heard from a Lib Dem on the show yet, which is why I'm going to come to you first
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And there's probably a reason for that, which is in all of the contests tonight. Well, I don't know how to put this in a polite way
0:24
You're not a major player. We're not. We're not in these particular ones. to know. But I mean, it's partly in nature, first past the post, right? It's always going to be
0:33
between the top two. In Makerfield, the top two were always going to be Andy Burnham and
0:37
the reform candidate. And likewise, in Scotland, the SNP in Aberdeen South were going to be against
0:44
the Conservatives. But, you know, we've had great by-election success in the past. In the last
0:48
Parliament, we won four with really, really big swings to us, really big majorities. We retained
0:52
all of those seats at the general election. We had great success. We've had great success
0:57
eight years in a row of local elections we've made gains. So it just happens that these three particular by-elections
1:04
are not in places where we're strong. But in Aberdeen South, for example, no one's expecting you to win
1:08
but you could at least keep your deposit, right? You could at least beat the Greens. You were sixth in Aberdeen South
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Only 1,200 people of all the people in Aberdeen South thought that you were worthy of the support
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We've had a really, really good result in Scotland last month. We won 10 MSPs, which is a really good result for us
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And, you know, we've been campaigning really, really hard. So I'll just say this particular by-election was very much between the SNP and the Conservatives
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And I think there will be a lot of people in Aberdeen South who, you know, might well have considered voting for our candidate
1:42
but will have voted for one party or the other of the top two because they wanted to make sure that the other didn win That how it often works Do you think Andy Burnham will be a more formidable opponent than Keir Starmer What for the Lib Dems How does it affect you do you think
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Well, I don't know. I mean, obviously, it kind of remains to be seen. I'm not sure he'd be a more formidable opponent
2:03
Honestly, right now, I just don't know what Andy Burnham's going to be like
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I don't really feel like we've got a sense of what Andy Burnham really stands for
2:12
what he really plans to do. if he becomes Prime Minister. He's going to be vibey
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And I'm going to say, you know, as a London MP, as a Southerner
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I just don't know Andy Burnham. I gather he's done great things in Manchester
2:25
But, you know, for those of us who, you know, are not particularly tuned into..
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He's King of the North. He's King of the North. How could you not know him? He's the King of the North. Because I'm from the South
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You're from the South. All right. Well, let's turn to a Midlander, one Midlander to another
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What has he done? Jess Phillips, who recently was in Keir Starmer's government, no longer
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Looks like Labour's going to win. It does look like that. Everybody's looking cheery, aren't they
2:50
Yes, I am happy. I am happy. I wasn't looking forward to that reform fellow joining us in Parliament
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Why ever not? Well, you know, as a feminist, amongst other things
3:03
I do like plumbers. And Parliament could do with a bit of that
3:08
We could do with more plumbers in Parliament, definitely. But seriously, I mean, you know, Andy Burnham already reported tonight, New Statesman's reporting tonight
3:14
that if he's elected, it looks very likely that he will be now, that he's got the 18 names, that he's going to go to the Prime Minister over the weekend
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and say, I've got the 18 names. We can do this the easy way, we could do it the hard way
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I have too heard this rumour. So I can't say what Andy Burnham is going to do
3:31
because he has not been chit-chatting with me about that. But I think that what I feel like all of the Parliamentary Labour Party pretty much feel that it would be the very best for Keir Starmer to have a dignified exit
3:50
And to do that, and a clear, clean transition to do that, I suppose that is what it may take for Andy Burnham to go and have that conversation
4:01
It is said that the Prime Minister is minded to fight it. And that there are people around him who are encouraging him
4:06
perhaps not least Morgan McSweeney, who was apparently departed, but maybe not quite so departed, encouraging him to stay
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As you know, as well as I do, there will be factions of the Labour Party that will be very reluctant to see the soft left in the form of Andy Burnham take control
4:22
Do you think, I mean, you know him a bit, Starmer, you worked for him until recently. Oh, yeah, yeah
4:25
Do you think that he will fight it? um it's quite hard for me yes i think that i feel like he he will fight it until the the cold hard
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figures of the names now obviously the rules of the labor party are such that keir starmer doesn't
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need to gather the names to stand he automatically ends up on the ballot if there is a contest
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but I don't think he believes that anyone has the names and until those are presented to him
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but I don't know how he will react to that. Look, all the talk that is coming out of Number 10
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and Keir Starmer is that he will fight it. I can only take the man at his word
5:11
And he's quite a stubborn guy. He's got stubbornness to him. Apparently so, yeah, yeah, yeah
5:16
he definitely is quite stubborn actually yeah that that i i would say is definitely true do you um
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think that if burnham if there is a contest or if uh burnham comes in and maybe as you say starmer decides in the end to throw in the towel because he just sees the right is against the wall Do you think it important that there is a contest For me yes I do think it is important that there is a contest because you are standing to be the prime minister of our country
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And I think that you need to be tested in that environment
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And as much as he's been tested in the Maker Field by election
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And I really like what he said about, like, if it doesn't work for Maker Field
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like he has this sort of policy of like i will think through everything i say and if it doesn't
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work for makerfield then i won't do it because i keep a woman called brenda who works in the asda
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in small heath in birmingham in my she's an imaginary woman uh and if it doesn't work for
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brenda i'm not interested in it uh so he he's he's he's expanded it beyond brenda um but
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is there someone in richmond park sarah that you have in mind i would imagine more of a waitrose
6:20
in Richmond Park, to be honest. Probably. So, yeah, look, I think that..
6:29
Nobody actually knows what's going to actually happen. Do you think Burnham will be a better leader of the Labour Party
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than Keir Starmer? I think that... I mean, that is why there needs to be a contest
6:39
That is... You know, I have no idea. I served with Andy Burnham for, I think
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about nine months to a year because he left to be the Manchester mayor
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during the first year of myself being in office. So I don't know
6:56
I mean, I've worked a little bit with him and his team, some of whom are absolutely brilliant in Manchester
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But that's why I feel that there needs to be a contest
7:07
because I don't know whether he'll be a better prime minister than Keir Starmer
7:11
What is definitely certain is that Andy Burnham presents and is more popular currently with the British public
7:21
I mean, so the polling tells me anyway
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