Up next in 10
Zia Yusuf has come under fire after posting about Labour's potential candidate to face Zack Polanski in Sir Keir Starmer's north London seat.
On Wednesday, Mr Yusuf wrote on X: "The front runner being foisted on the people of Holborn by Labour to replace the former Prime Minister Keir Starmer in our Parliament was born in Somalia. Do you understand what's happening?"
LBC's political editor Natasha Clark joins Tom Swarbrick live from the Reform UK party conference in Birmingham to discuss the subject.
She spoke to Robert Jenrick about the topic who defends his colleague.
Tom grills Reform's Jonathan Gullis about the topic.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
The leaves are, of course, this year beginning to turn
0:02
There is a chill blowing through the air, and across the land, thousands of bottles of very bad white wine
0:08
are being inexplicably warmed in preparation for political conference season. And first, it's the turn of the Reform Party
0:15
who, up until Burnham bounced along, had been having a stormer in the polls
0:20
seen by some as a genuine alternative to the two main parties. But nothing gets your showpiece occasion off to a better start
0:26
than what seems to be a race row. Natasha Clarke is LBC's political editor at Reform UK Party Conference
0:33
Live for us in Birmingham. Natasha. Tong, I have some really bad news for you
0:39
Andrea Jenkins is not going to be, as far as I know, performing another version of Insomnia at Reform's party conference this year
0:47
It's really upset me and I am desperately trying to find out what she's going to be doing instead
0:51
But I am told there will be some pyrotechnics tomorrow when Nigel Farage gives his first big speech to the party gathering here in Birmingham
0:59
And it might look quite quiet behind me, but it's actually the party's business day, so the reform members are not yet here
1:06
But they are, they say, getting off to a good start. It's the party's first opportunity to set out to businesses why they should be backing the party
1:15
You've got Richard Tice, you've got Robert Jenrick, trying to woo them with their smoked salmon on scrambled eggs or whatever they are eating and drinking here
1:22
but potentially more pork pies and beer, probably, rather than smoked salmon and scrambled eggs
1:28
But yes, here in Birmingham, obviously, as you were just mentioning, it is not off to a fantastic start in terms of that tweet that you mentioned
1:36
by Zia Yusuf, the party's Home Affairs spokesperson, which has really upset quite a lot of people on social media in the last few hours
1:47
Zia Yusuf has tweeted about the potential Labour candidate for Hoburn, the leader of Camden Council
1:52
She is a refugee from Somalia. Her name is Sagal Abdi Wally
1:57
Zia Youssef pointed this out on social media earlier today and said, do you understand what is happening
2:03
Lots of people have said that this tweet is upsetting. Some are saying that it's racist
2:09
I put that accusation to the party's shadow home, sorry, shadow chancellor Robert Jenrig
2:15
Here's what he had to say. Do you think this tweet is racist? No. What do you think he means by this tweet
2:22
Well, I think he's asking the question that if someone's standing for our parliament who wasn't born in this country
2:28
and that's happened before, there's no rule against that, I don't know this person from Adam
2:33
but do they love our country? Will they always put this country first
2:38
Will they always put British people first in the way that reform would do
2:42
Now, I say I don't know this person, so it's for her to answer for herself
2:47
But I have seen other people standing for election here in Birmingham who appear to put the interests of Pakistan first
2:54
You know, talking about whether a new airport should be built in Mirpur rather than the bin strike is fixed in Birmingham
3:01
So that might be the point that Zia is making. We are a firmly patriotic party that will always put the interests of the British people first
3:08
And if you stand for our parliament, you should care solely about Britain and our national interests
3:13
Do you think that a refugee who comes to stand for Parliament is unable to put Britain first
3:17
Not necessarily, not necessarily. But, you know, she'll have to speak for herself
3:22
And, you know, I just want to see Parliament filled with people who love our country
3:26
and want to act in the best interest of our people. And where I sit in the House of Commons, behind me, are Islamists
3:33
who seem more interested in what's going on in Gaza and Pakistan
3:37
than what happening in Newark or Birmingham And that worries me So not a fantastic start some people here are saying Nigel Farage however has just arrived here in the last hour or so
3:47
to pretty much fanfare from lots of the business leaders. They're all swarming him, trying to get a moment with him
3:53
And there are some big companies here, Tom, that weren't here last year
3:57
The likes of Heathrow, JCB, Meta, UK Finance, Vodafone, among some of the business sponsors here
4:03
But not a lot of CEOs is what I am picking up from some of my sources that I've been speaking to
4:08
And Tom, there is a bit of nervousness here speaking to senior reform figures
4:12
It feels like it could be a bit of a make-or-break conference for the party, of course
4:16
Nigel Farage, fresh back from his Clacton win. He is, however, still under investigation
4:21
The party's still getting quite a lot of scrutiny. Some polls as well have had them dropping in a bit of support
4:26
It's not quite the optimistic vision that they were portraying at the party conference here last year
4:30
Natasha, thank you very much indeed. Natasha Clarke, LBC's political editor at Reform UK party conference there
4:36
Yes, to that tweet from Zia Youssef, responded to extraordinarily there by Robert Jenrig
4:40
We'll come back to this in just a moment. But to give you the full context, Sagar Abdiwali is the leader of Camden Council
4:47
Came that earlier this year. She came to the UK as a child refugee from Somalia
4:52
She's considered the forerunner to replace or at least be the Labour candidate
4:56
in a by-election that has been triggered by Sakhir Starmer standing down as an MP
5:01
of her potential candidacy Zia Yusuf said I'll quote his tweet the front runner being foisted on
5:09
the people of Hoban by Labour to replace the former Prime Minister Keir Starmer in our parliament
5:14
was born in Somalia do you understand what's happening he says now what the hell is he on
5:24
about bearing in mind that Zia Yusuf is the son of Sri Lankan Muslims who came to this country in
5:31
the 1980s what does he mean foisted this is parliamentary democracy no one's got an automatic
5:38
right to win it there goes there's going to have to be a thing called a vote what does he mean by
5:43
do you understand what is happening and when Robert Jenrick says you can't know whether the
5:50
people who have arrived in this country from overseas really love this country or not
5:54
well judge people by their actions here is a woman who has stood for election multiple times
6:00
having arrived in this country as a child, won election to council seats, become the councillor
6:06
of Camden and is now potentially going to stand for a by-election. Jonathan Gullis is a Reform UK
6:13
councillor himself and leader of Newcastle underlying Borough Council. He's the former
6:17
deputy chairman of the Conservative Party and former MP for Stoke on Trent North. Thank you very much indeed for coming on the programme Mr Gullis. What does Zia Youssef mean when he says
6:27
do you understand what's happening about Sagal Abdiwali? Hi. Well, I think what Zia Yusuf's getting to the point of
6:36
is that there's an ugly identity politics that's taking part in this country
6:39
We see that both the Green Party and Labour Party are now fighting amongst themselves
6:44
to try and pitch to a certain type of voter, particularly in that part of London
6:48
who will have a very staunch and unstomachable, in my view, view on Israel
6:54
And we saw that play out in Gorton and Denton, and we're just seeing it replay out in Holborn St Pancras
6:58
as these two parties fight for who's going to win this upcoming violation. So how do you know her view on what's happening in the Middle East
7:08
I'm very sorry, Tom, I've just lost the sound there. Do you mind repeating the question, if I could please? How do you know her view on what's happening in the Middle East
7:17
Sorry Tom it just I got one earpiece working on one side and that my deaf ear I so sorry do you mind repeating a third time I really sorry We give it another go How do you know what her view is on the Middle East
7:31
Well, I think we can see from what we've seen from the Labour Party that they have played ugly sectarian politics
7:36
Let's look at what they did in that Batley and Spen by-election that took place during my time as a Member of Parliament
7:40
when they were using photos of Boris Johnson and Prime Minister Modi of India
7:45
in order to appeal to the Pakistani community in that area, in order to gain votes
7:50
We have seen this ugly politics be played out before. We've even seen the inclination from the Labour Party
7:55
under Sir Keir Starmer that somehow Rishi Sunak doesn't care about arresting child offenders
8:03
or, you know, paedophiles, essentially, when they put out that vile graphic during my time again as a Member of Parliament
8:09
This is sadly something that we've seen from the Labour Party time and time again. I don't understand, Mr Gullis
8:13
A woman who was born in Somalia came here as a refugee is being selected by Labour to appeal to pro-Palestinian voters
8:21
because, what, she's a Muslim? I haven't said that at all, Tom
8:26
What I've said is that there is an ugly identity politics that sits within the left of British politics
8:30
I don't believe this individual has yet been actually selected as the candidate
8:34
I'm just simply saying my interpretation of what Zia Yusuf was saying today
8:38
And actually, whilst this, I understand, is something that you may be interested in down in Westminster
8:42
what I'm interested in, what the people are interested in, is what reform has been saying today
8:47
which is in the first 100 days... I can see why you're not interested in this or why you don't want to be interested in this
8:50
because this is being described as completely racist. When he asks, do you understand what's happening
8:59
What's he suggesting? I've just said that there's an ugly identity politics
9:04
and sectarian politics that takes part in this country. We've heard recently about the family voting
9:08
that was also seen in Gorton Denton and indeed in Birmingham in the recent local elections
9:13
on the 7th of May. I think it's quite clear what Zia Yusuf is getting to the point of
9:17
and has repeatedly made a point of as well. So you can tell someone's views on the Middle East
9:21
by the colour of their skin, can you? That isn't what Zia's done at all
9:27
I completely reject that interpretation. OK, so why would you be led to believe
9:32
that someone is being selected, potentially selected, for a by-election based on what you think other people believe
9:39
about what's happening in the Middle East? Tom, I've literally given you examples
9:45
when the Labour Party have used identity politics and sectarian politics they used it against Richardson Act to infer
9:50
that he didn't want to see pedophiles in prison Labour Party used it in the Batley and Spend
9:55
by-election to appeal to a certain voter by using photos of Boris Johnson
9:58
and President Modi, these are literal things that are documented and are out there in the public domain
10:02
and that's for the Labour Party to explain why they felt those tactics were necessary when
10:06
targeting other political parties Robert Jenrick, who's just been asked about this has suggested that part of the reason is because you can't be sure that people born
10:15
overseas have this country's fortunes fully in their hearts. They might have split loyalties
10:22
Would you agree? Well, I think that there is a serious case that we've seen that I think play
10:28
out in Tower Hamlets, for example, where there's been serious concerns about the politics that's
10:31
taken place there, some of the corruption that's taken place in that area as well. I've seen it
10:35
with one of my own deputy leaders of Labour Council, this is, of Stoke-on-Trent City Council
10:41
who has gone down to Birmingham to give a talk about how there needs to be an airport built in Kashmir
10:48
which has got no relevance to the people that he serves in the city, that's got nearly £800 million of debt
10:54
has had three emergency bailouts totalling nearly £70 million, and has got over 1,000 children in care
10:59
That, as the deputy of the City Council, is what I expect him to be using his time on He driving down the M6 to Birmingham to talk instead about airports in Kashmir So people who were born overseas might not necessarily have the interest of this country at heart
11:16
Again, I think there's a very legitimate question to say, are people going to put the British people first, put the country first
11:23
Did you have that worry when you served in Boris Johnson's government, who was born in America
11:27
That is something that any candidate should demonstrate that they are going to put the interests of the community
11:33
and the country that they intend to serve. Did you have that concern? And I expect that to be a challenge for all candidates
11:37
Did you have that concern when you served in Boris Johnson's government, who was born in America
11:43
I had concerns at times under the last Conservative government when we were continuing to spend money on foreign aid
11:48
which shouldn't happen, which here, Robert Jenrick has said, would be capped at £1 billion per annum
11:52
I had concerns when we were pushing the net zero agenda, when actually it's Russia, China, India and America
11:57
who actually are leading the global emissions charts. those are yes i had serious concerns when we weren't taking on china because our ceramics
12:04
industry were going down the toilet whilst we saw jobs go over to sea to countries like india
12:08
in johnson tiles cases i had those concerns that we weren't putting british business and british
12:12
people and you do you do you think that those concerns were born out of the fact that primarily
12:16
the prime minister at the time that you served under was born overseas he wasn't born in britain
12:20
sorry tom i just need you to repeat the second half of that question one more time sorry
12:25
Boris Johnson, whom you served under, was born in America. Did you question his loyalty to Britain because of that fact
12:34
Boris Johnson served this country as a Prime Minister. He obviously called for Brexit and led that campaign alongside Michael Gove
12:41
and showed to me very clear that he wanted to, on occasion, like with Brexit, put the British people first
12:48
However, sadly, also when we were in office, the Conservative government didn't deliver
12:51
by stopping the de-industrialisation of our nation. So what is the difference between Boris Johnson's loyalty to this country
13:00
what is the difference between Boris Johnson's loyalty to this country, having been born overseas
13:04
and Sehgal Abdiwali's loyalty to this country, having been born overseas? Well, that's for the Labour candidate to have to demonstrate
13:13
And at the end of the day, they'll be judged on their actions, their behaviour and their policy decision-making. I'm not saying whether they've got loyalty or not
13:19
I'm saying that's for them to demonstrate. That is for someone else to prove. What I'm saying is that I would hope any candidate running in any by-election or any election
13:27
whether that be for a local council or for the British Parliament, would have the interest of the country and its people first and foremost
13:32
I don't think that's a controversial statement at all. You're having your business day up there at Reform Conference, I think
13:38
Who are the CEOs who have turned up for it? Well, that's something that you'll have to ask the press office
13:46
All I can say is that there's a great many businesses here, such as Heathrow, Haribo, Microsoft and many others
13:52
who have come along for this very important business day to hear directly from Robert Jenrick
13:56
who's announced £100 billion of savings over the course of the next Parliament, which is going to give us the fiscal credibility and reassure the markets at a time when Andy Burnham is seeing the markets spike in the gilt and bond markets
14:07
which is very worrying, because that means less money for the NHS, less money for defence, less money going in to our local councils
14:13
and instead going on debt interest payments. And Richard Tice announcing a teal paper, as we call it, also known as a green paper in parliamentary terms
14:20
on the future planning and housing of this country, wanting to build 20,000 additional homes on brownfield land
14:26
that could generate £4 billion to £5 billion per year to the Exchequer and give people an opportunity to own a home on brownfield sites
14:33
which is much better than building on the greenbelt. Appreciate your time. Thank you for coming on and bearing with the technology difficulties
14:38
Jonathan Gullis is a Reform UK councillor and leader of Newcastle underlying Borough Council
14:42
former Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, former MP for Stoke-on-Trent North. What is Zia Yusuf driving at
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