Up next in 10
James O'Brien and his callers react to the footage of Reform councillors making racist comments and saying the King should be beheaded for being 'a Muslim'.
The ITV documentary, Undercover: A Year In Reform, was filmed over a year and includes footage of senior Reform figures and activists campaigning for the party across the UK.
The undercover sting captured eight Reform councillors using racist, violent and sexist language.
Reform said the individuals filmed are under investigation and have either resigned or been suspended from the party.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
We have people in British politics who are supine with admiration for both Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump
0:06
which is why it's time for the first time in a while to turn our attentions back to Nigel Farage
0:11
who has described Donald Trump as the bravest man he has ever met
0:16
I don't know that that's even comical anymore. The bravest man he has ever met
0:21
And he has described Vladimir Putin as the politician he admires most in the world
0:26
He tried in one of the leadership debates, I think, at the last election, he tried to pretend that he hadn't said that
0:34
But luckily, David Dimbleby was conducting that conversation. So he wasn't able to get away with his characteristic wriggling
0:42
And I think it's probably time for us to stop being so polite about this political party as well, isn't it
0:49
I've been increasingly wondering. I'd love to know what you think about this. How much damage do you think the phrase legitimate concerns
0:56
has done to public discourse in this country? You remember, for a very long time
1:02
you'd hear someone say something racist, and you'd say, that's a bit racist, and someone else would say, no
1:06
they've got legitimate concerns about immigration. And you'd sort of ask what their legitimate concerns were
1:12
And they'd say something like, oh, well, in my part of town, if you're an immigrant
1:17
you get a free shop. You'd say, pardon? What have we had on the show over the years
1:22
Free shops was the first one. I hadn't been doing this job very long. And I remember thinking, I'm 99% sure you don't get given a free shop
1:32
simply by dint of having been born somewhere else. And this was even before Facebook ruled the world
1:38
So I don't know how these stories spread back in the day. And then I remember a woman telling me they got free cars
1:45
Did that call get clipped up? I think that might have been during the era of clipping up calls and going via
1:51
You get a free car. Is it legitimate concerns? We've got legitimate concerns
1:57
And I used to sit there thinking, well, maybe they do. Maybe they do
2:01
So when the numbers start plummeting, everyone will relax again. I don't know whether you're talking about people forced across the channel in small boats because the Tories shut all the safe and legal routes
2:12
Or whether you're talking about net migration figures, which understandably and inevitably rocketed as a consequence of Brexit
2:19
it. When they start plummeting, everyone will calm down, right? If you've got legitimate concerns
2:27
then when they are addressed, they will cease to be concerns, if they were legitimate. There it is
2:35
That's the jigsaw. And of course, Keir Starmer's Labour government thought that they were or
2:39
treated them as if they were legitimate concerns. I've got legitimate concerns. Okay. All right
2:45
we're addressing your legitimate concerns. The numbers have plummeted. Yeah, but I'm still really angry
2:51
There's still too many. I'm still really... Well, hang on. How legitimate were your concerns in the first place
2:55
Also, you keep saying you don't care about legal migration. You only care about illegal migration
3:02
Illegal migration is a drop in the ocean. Why is it the only thing you ever talk about
3:07
And why are your politicians coming out and saying there's too many black faces on the telly
3:10
if they have legitimate concerns about current levels of migration. How can there be too many black faces on the telly
3:18
if you're only expressing legitimate concerns? I think it might be one of those phrases
3:23
that we've allowed to be unchallenged in our discourse. Because who honestly thinks that Nigel Farage
3:32
has ever led a party that is not riddled with racism? Go on, put your hands up
3:39
The only people who would argue that Nigel Farage has never or not led
3:43
every party he's ever led is riddled with racism, are racists who aren't ready to admit it yet
3:48
Racists who love him that aren't ready to admit it yet. You may be aware that ITV has undertaken
3:54
ITV has done some journalism. There you go. That's how you describe it
3:59
BBC used to do this sort of thing. That ITV has done some journalism
4:03
where they have spent time with reform councillors and reform candidates and talked to them
4:10
and listened to them. That's the judge. So I imagine Richard Tice is claiming already
4:15
I think I may have seen a clip somewhere, Richard Tice is claiming already that this is profoundly unfair
4:20
How dare you listen to our candidates and report what they have said? Okay, mate, that's an interesting take there
4:28
you've got on a free media. So ITV have been spending time
4:33
with Reform UK candidates and councillors and a deputy mayor, for example, in Solihull
4:39
and they have been listening to them and recording them and telling you what they have said
4:44
I need to warn you in advance that although we have bleeped things
4:47
and been very careful, there will still be profoundly offensive ideas conveyed
4:56
and some of the language that we are permitted to broadcast will be pretty offensive as well
5:00
And this is just the tip of the iceberg, that the programme will be broadcast on Sunday inside Reform UK
5:06
and although 50% of me says this is up there with reporting
5:10
that the popes are Catholic or bears shalalalala are in the woods, because of that phrase legitimate concerns
5:17
because of the insistence from Farage for the best part of 20 years
5:21
that we vet our candidates and just because we didn't do a very good job of vetting them in the past doesn't mean that we're not going to vet them really well now
5:29
We've got the best vetting process. I've done more than anybody else to keep the far right out of British
5:35
and he's allowed to say these things. It's extraordinary, isn't it? You see, today is a day, actually, for recapping, isn't it
5:45
Because how many people that told us Donald Trump was going to be fantastic
5:49
or that everyone was exaggerating how awful Donald Trump was, how many of them are exactly the same people that allow Nigel Farage to claim
5:57
that his parties are not riddled with racists or that his vetting system is somehow successful
6:03
or that it's not his fault when it turns out that he attracts racists like moths to a flame
6:09
How many of the same people responsible for cheerleading Donald Trump have also allowed that phrase legitimate concerns to pass into common parlance
6:21
without actually asking people to define precisely what is legitimate about them
6:27
Because too many people with brown faces on the streets of Birmingham for Robert Jenrick
6:32
or too many black people in adverts on the telly for Sarah Pochin, those are not legitimate concerns
6:38
Those are racisms. They are racist observations, objectively racist. I don't like that because it's brown
6:46
I don't like her. I don't want to see him because they are not white
6:51
That's racist, right? It's got nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with racism
6:56
And how scared are people of saying that still? We haven't been scared, have we
7:04
We haven't fallen for this, have we? It's all a bit Catholic today's show, isn't it
7:08
With a big C. A bit of self-flagellation at the top, worrying that we've been sort of gaslit
7:13
into not saying what we know to be true. I don't think that's true. But who honestly..
7:19
Tell me, this isn't the phone-in. Well, maybe it is, but it would be very odd if anybody rang in
7:24
Who here is surprised to discover that Nigel Farage's latest political party
7:27
is absolutely riddled with racists? really you're surprised oh would you like to buy a bridge um you can go and have a look at it it's
7:36
just down by the tower of london it's an amazing bridge it opens up in the middle it's yours for
7:40
two million pounds i'll have it shipped to wherever it is you are by tea time tomorrow hey who here is actually surprised i've got a really interesting question forming in my mind
7:52
about what's happening here, but I haven actually got it on the tip of my tongue yet It something to do with misdirection or misinformation Because when ITV broadcast this programme on Sunday
8:07
there is a presumption that we will be shocked. And yet at the same time
8:13
the least shocking thing anybody in the British media could report is that Nigel Farage is leading a party
8:19
absolutely riddled with racists. So something has gone horribly wrong here. whether it is a failure properly to scrutinise and challenge his ridiculous claims that he roots
8:30
racism out of the party or that his vetting process is anything other than an exercise in
8:35
cashing checks and rubber stamping applications or that he only ever acts when the situation
8:42
becomes untenable what possible reason can there be for this this this sort of ship of bigotry
8:52
still being afloat. That's the bit I don't quite get. Do you see what I mean
9:00
What I really want to talk about is optimism, hope, and the idea that two things
9:09
Number one, the very positive response to Kemi Baden-Otts' rejection of Suella Braverman's racism
9:16
That has seen her looking at the polling and the ysis of the polling
9:19
I mean, part of this so-called Bader not boost is down to the media that brought you Brexit, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, austerity and Donald Trump cheerleaders now telling you that Kemi Bader not going to be brilliant
9:30
I mean, that is an extraordinary exercise in both self and public delusion
9:34
But one thing the public have genuinely responded to is her attack in her conference speech on Reform UK's racism and her boost in the polls probably has more to do with that or at least as much to do with that as it does with the nonsense being spouted by right wing media about her being some sort of cross between Boudicca and Margaret Thatcher
9:59
So that's good news, right? That means that right wing voters are responding positively to a rejection of racism. Now, I want you to be honest with me. I'm obviously a kind of enormous cliche. Lefty, liberal, metropolitan elite, champagne socialist, all of that malarkey. I have been pleasantly surprised by that
10:23
The numbers aren't enormous, but they're significant. Right wing voters attracted to a rejection of racism. Now, what is that the corollary of? That is the corollary of right wing voters repelled by racism
10:42
It's the same thing in a way. You're not going to be attracted to a rejection of racism unless you are repelled by real racism
10:54
And that's why I want you to talk to me next. And I'm playing you some of the fruits of ITV's journalism with that warning that it's pretty grim stuff
11:05
Although, I'm afraid, entirely predictable. I don't think we get to sit here going, oh, oh, some Reform UK politicians have said some absolutely hideous things about people of colour and Muslims and black children
11:16
Who can genuinely claim to be shocked? Who's going to sit here going, oh, I can't believe I voted for them
11:22
They're massive racists. Oh, oh, colour me shocked. Clips will be with you shortly
11:29
But I think, I don't, you see, I'm a white bloke, you see
11:34
You might shoot me down in flames for this. Should we be a little bit more upbeat about this country's attitude to racist politicians
11:44
Have we allowed ourselves to be overly frightened? I'm not frightened of these people. I'm disgusted by them
11:54
Have we allowed ourselves to be overly disgusted? Is the presumed reaction and the ongoing reaction to this ITV investigation
12:04
and the warm reception of Kami Bader nots rejection of racism. Is it time perhaps to wonder whether we're a little bit better as a population
12:15
than we've given ourselves credit for? But I don't know if a white bloke can answer that question
12:24
I don't think I can, can I? But you perhaps can if you're not white
12:28
Do you ever think that actually things, I mean, we've got some hideous people in very prominent positions
12:35
And people like Suella Braverman will claim, as she did on Question Time the other day, that she can't be racist because she's brown
12:43
Listen, I think this might be one of those invitations to you from me to tell me to give my head a wobble and get back on the disgusted bus
12:53
But just these two stories suggest to me that maybe the racism is reaching a point where it's putting off more people than it's attracting
13:05
If she was my daughter, it'd still be bath nights on the Thursday. Time for your bath
13:16
I'll wash it properly this time. Yes. Oh, God, we're all going to end up in the papers
13:23
I'm really sorry that I have to repeat this to you. It's worth bearing in mind, because I'm drawing parallels between racism and misogyny
13:31
between Donald Trump and Nigel Farage. Donald Trump has talked about how he would have dated his own daughter in a slightly different universe
13:38
That man just said in public, in reference to a female reform candidate, in reference to one of his colleagues
13:45
if she was my daughter, it would still be bath night on a Thursday
13:50
he's now resigned on personal and health grounds of course he has
13:55
and listen I think it's time we stop pretending that this is a surprise
14:03
or that this is a balanced conversation or that no it's perfectly possible to be attracted to this party
14:08
even if you're not a racist should we just start being honest about this now
14:12
and in order to avoid the misery of that conclusion I'm asking you whether or not
14:19
maybe, just maybe the disgust that this will cause coupled with the boost
14:25
of Kemi Bedanox fortunes that her rejection of racism entailed yesterday means that people like me
14:31
maybe need to start being a little bit more upbeat about tolerance in this country
14:39
I don't know. And I do know that as a white bloke I don't get to make that decision. I just get to ask you that question
14:44
Eli is in Rochester. What do you reckon? Oh, hi, James. Long time listener. First time call to see you, actually
14:51
Welcome. Yes. I think it's yes and no. Yes, in the sense that it's good to actually hear the leader of a major right wing party actually addressing the fact that there is racist connotations and pushing back against that
15:09
and no because then we lose sight of the fact that it's my worth as a human being
15:16
or even belonging to the country that is being discussed you know and that should never be
15:24
something that is okay even if it's 10 people left that we're talking about you know like the
15:29
inherent value that i have it's it's just but if someone is quite if someone is questioning that
15:36
then it is not only necessary, but it is welcome that somebody else challenges it, even though
15:43
and this is why I made the observation a moment ago about my own ethnicity, because I would have
15:47
missed this point. Even though it's going to make you very uncomfortable to be the subject of that
15:52
conversation, you have to welcome the counterbalance to the bigotry. Yes, absolutely. I do welcome that
15:59
But the caveat is that pushing back because it her children does not mean that she understands the connotation of what actually happens on the ground in everyday life
16:11
And the second part is that now as a black person, I have to start thinking when people look at me, you know, for more than two seconds
16:20
What are they thinking? Are they judging my, you know, what thoughts do they have towards me
16:25
When my kids interact with other kids, I have to start thinking, is it okay for my kids to go to their houses and things like that
16:33
She would never experience that. And those things are not addressed. So she's only talking about it and saying, oh, they're English
16:40
But what about the day-to-day experiences for the everyday man? That's not being addressed
16:46
No, you're absolutely right. So how do you respond when you hear a bloke with even less experience, well, considerably less experience of racist ideation than Kami Bader not
16:59
Although I think she denies that institutional racism exists and I fully acknowledge that it exists
17:04
So, you know, it's a little bit more nuanced than you might expect. Forgive me, Eli. It's not as black and white as it might be
17:10
But when you hear me on the radio suggesting that maybe we need to maybe, because here's what I think. Reform and people who have sought to appease them have thrown open the door to racism
17:26
That they have allowed it to be publicly acceptable once again to be racist
17:30
You don't get fired for saying there's too many black people in Birmingham or there's too many black people on telly
17:36
That's hideous. I can only imagine how I would feel if that was me or more pertinently my children that people like Robert Jenrick and Sarah Pochin were describing or Suella Braverman was telling that they can't be English, that they're not English
17:49
and I have spent, we perhaps have spent the last few years
17:53
thinking, worrying, noticing how many people flock to that maypole, how many people are now dancing around that maypole
18:03
The thing I'm flirting with today is the idea that there may not be quite as many people as we thought
18:11
and that when the racism that is endemic in any organisation that Nigel Farage ever leads
18:17
becomes absolutely crystal clear, as it is now, that some people drawn to that
18:24
this is where I'm going to sound either very naive or fatally optimistic
18:28
some of the people currently thinking they might vote for him, they will actually be put off
18:35
James, be gentle with me, Eli, be gentle with me. I'll try
18:41
About 20 to 25% of the population supports reform. Yeah, but do they know how racist it is
18:51
If they've heard of their policies and every single policy they have
18:59
there's a thread of discrimination running through it. That's simply not true
19:03
Some of it is designed entirely to further enrich cryptocurrency billionaires based in foreign countries
19:08
Apologies. And they are based in foreign countries, Eli, so there's nothing racist about that
19:14
That's very true. But if you think about that, right, that means about one in four to five people already subscribe to reform
19:22
And there's the other RR, you know, the other RR starting parties that other people support
19:28
And then there's also the, you know, the slice of the conservative that also have the discriminative outlook, right, the biases
19:37
Then we're looking at about, I'm being generous here, 30%? One in three people, James
19:43
so you're not deriving any optimism whatsoever from both the boost to kemi bedenock's political
19:50
fortunes by her rejection of reforms racism but as you've reminded me perhaps not all racism
19:56
or the expected um revulsion at the revelations regarding farage's racist army that will be in
20:05
the itv documentary on sunday that's what they should have called it actually that is correct
20:10
Yes, I am not. And because we, I think a lot of people take solace in the fact that we don't have lynchings and, you know, very, how can I put it
20:22
You know, the in your face racism and thinking, oh, we're not lynching people and we're not saying all black people
20:28
But they don't understand that these biases needs to be spoken about. And I don't want it to be platform and digest be the only thing we speak about
20:36
No, of course not. but it is endemic. I will share a little story with you, actually
20:42
I'm going to take the news and come back to you, if that's all right. Is that okay? Because I think you deserve to share your story
20:48
Are there any reform supporters who will be repelled by the revelations
20:53
which, I mean, are going to be very big on Sunday, but that certainly won't be the end of the story, I don't think
20:59
Does that count as a mystic gym moment, Keith? If I say these will not be the last racism scandals to emerge among reform candidates and councillors, I don't think that counts as mystic, Jimmy
21:14
I mean, that's a little bit like predicting that the sun is going to come up tomorrow. But whether or not it's naive of me to think that there might be some people who are currently drawn to Nigel Farage's racist Maypole, who won't actually want to dance around it when they realize how many racists there are in the troupe
21:34
I don't know. Now that I put it like that, I am sounding naive. And as Eli in Rochester was in the process of telling us, I'm sounding even more naive when I suggest that things might not be quite as bad as I've spent the last few years believing
21:45
Eli, you were about to tell us a story. Yes. This is a little sad story, actually
21:50
So I have a daughter who started school two years ago. She's in year two now
21:57
And in reception, about six months in, she came back and told us
22:04
one of her colleagues told her, oh, your skin is dirty. You know, in reception, James
22:10
One of her classmates. Classmates, yeah. No, I can't, can I? I mean, because I just have the little girl in front of me now
22:17
and I want to try and persuade her, not me or you, that that isn't necessarily as bad as it sounds
22:22
And it did used to happen because of ignorance, but it can't be happening because of ignorance today
22:28
James, we live 35 to 40 minutes from London. What did you tell her, mate
22:38
Sorry. That's all right. Yeah, it was hard, you know. I didn't think I would ever be in that situation
22:50
Sorry. That's okay. We can move on. Yeah, yeah. So it was just, I had to tell her that, you know, you're beautiful
22:59
You know, we love you. There are 30 other kids in your class, and 13 in the other class
23:06
And how do you get along with them? It was great. I was like, yeah, so it's just one person's opinion
23:13
And it was said aggressively. it wasn't said. Yeah, like, oh, no, no, no, no, no
23:18
It wasn't, oh, it was meant to hurt. Yeah, poor little thing
23:22
And what made it worse is that my daughter left the pants out of this girl
23:27
Oh, I'm so sorry. And these are things that come from home and at home
23:31
These things are now being said with impunity and enthusiasm that was not there 10 years ago
23:38
Even if the thoughts were festering somewhere deep inside and in the privacy of your own home, you might say it
23:44
But what this reform investigation shows is that they think they can say it in company now
23:49
And if you're a reform politician, you just presume that you can say it to your colleagues, to your fellow campaigners, to other candidates, to canvassers, presumably to the boss, to everybody
24:00
When you don think there anybody else around we all racist in reform There you go And then that feeds into culture and that gets repeated enough and people automatically start having these connotations or these biases normalized
24:16
And then suddenly you ascribe anybody to, you know, anybody who looks brown or is not white to be less than
24:24
And there you go. And just one last thing, I know, because you have to move on
24:27
I could see this coming because I remembered in the early 2000s, there was a clamor about, oh, there have been too many black people in the country from Africa
24:38
And the moment the Brexit vote started and bringing this back to Brexit and the target was Eastern Europeans
24:45
I turned around to my friend. I said, you know what's coming next, right? Once we got out and Eastern Europeans are gone, it's going to be black people
24:54
and once it's not the new Africans that cannot speak English it's going to become the people who are already here
25:01
people on the telly the people in the adverts the people in your children's school
25:07
the people over there the footballers the footballers can't be English, you're absolutely right
25:15
you're absolutely right I'm sorry, that's a terrible business and you handled it beautifully
25:20
but you shouldn't have to handle it it's the least I can do
25:23
Ali is in Birmingham. Ali, what made you pick up the phone? Hi, James
25:27
Hello, mate. I am actually in that video that ITV News put out
25:34
OK. I'm the chap whose door he knocks on in the orange shirt
25:41
And we had a good old chap, me and Alvini did. And it was very polite
25:47
It was very cordial. And to see and hear what he said after he left my doorstep
25:53
was quite a shock. Tell me a bit about the conversation that you had
25:59
Well, it was a long-haul conversation, and I don't want to say too much because your producers have told me
26:06
I've got to be very careful about what I say. But the long and short of it is we discussed a lot of different topics
26:13
and in the community in general, there's a lot of accusations, should we say that Alan Feeney targets Asian households
26:23
with regards to planning permission and stuff like that. And that is what I put to him
26:28
Oh, I see. Okay. And that is what was on tape. So he displays discriminatory approaches in his work as a councillor
26:36
and deputy mayor of Solihal, and you put that allegation to him
26:40
Yes. Okay. And, you know, he almost had me convinced, James. I'm not going to lie to you
26:45
He was very personable. and the scary thing is he knocked, well he didn't knock on my door
26:54
I called him over and we had this conversation and the same
27:00
person who 10 minutes later was saying we want to drug them out
27:04
of their houses Well let's have a little listen to what he said
27:08
about people like you and your family shortly after you'd closed your
27:14
front door. Before we listen to it Harry, that is one bold shirt, mate
27:20
Cheers, man. Let's have a listen. So when a house comes up for sale
27:24
white people need to be in there. You almost need to f*** out-Muslim the Muslims
27:30
You'd need a proper nuclear option, like literally drag them at their homes
27:35
stick them on planes and f*** them off to Pakistan, which you'll never do in a month of Sundays
27:40
I'd be saying no more than 1% of British population can be non-white
27:46
Did he shake your hand? He did. He absolutely did. And, you know, he came across as very likable, James
27:54
That's incredible, isn't he? And I hate to admit that. No, no, it's the point
27:59
That's the point. That's the point. Of course it's the point. The bizarre thing is, and this is one of the reasons why I hate what happens so much
28:05
is me and my brother were texting the night before this came out. And I was saying, oh, well, you know what
28:10
Alan Feeney, he's actually all right with me? And my brother was like, no, he's not
28:14
He's a racist. and the thing that I hate most is now I have to admit that my brother's right
28:18
You've got to go back to your brother and give him some kudos
28:22
Did you, I mean, from my point of view, and you're obviously following local politics
28:26
that they're more closely than I am, but, I mean, did you not subscribe
28:32
I think your brother probably did, that reform is a racist enterprise
28:37
Or were you persuadable that it isn't or wasn't? No, I knew that they had severe racial elements to it
28:43
Sure. But I am neither right wing or left wing. I am, you know, I'm somebody other than somebody other
28:51
Yeah, fair enough. And it was a case of let's see what he's about
28:56
and let's see if he can account for what he has said online because that's the only interaction I'd had with him
29:01
Yeah, I see. And again, he came across as very, you know, very good
29:06
But, you know, you look at people like Stephen Lennon and they come across as
29:12
it's quite clear that he is in it for the money. Yes
29:16
And, you know, the attention. Where to someone like Alan Feeney, it is far, far, far more vicious and sinister
29:24
because he is actually in a place of authority now. Yes. And he has these opinions, and that is why he's scary
29:32
And do you have any confidence or optimism that when these sort of moments..
29:39
Because I can tell you now what the defence will be. The defence will be, oh, well, they don't investigate anybody else
29:43
Or, oh, our vetting process is still a bit embryonic and it will get better
29:48
And I don't know why racists are attracted to me like moths to a flame or flies to a large pile of..
29:53
Do you think when this stuff comes out, it will put people off
29:58
Absolutely not. Oh, man. No. Really? I'll tell you why I say that
30:03
Go on. I know you're right. If it's something that I've realised is people like myself
30:09
I'm a second-generation immigrant. My parents come here. In my immediate family, there are doctors
30:18
there are, you know, we've got quite a successful family. Sure. And, you know, I've realised there is nothing
30:26
that any minority in this country can do that will make us acceptable to racists
30:33
nothing, no matter no amount of integration, there's always going to be
30:38
a sticking point so for example, they say, oh, we all congregate in certain communities, or we move
30:43
out to make our lives better to better areas, so they're moving in
30:46
you know, we don't want them in there there's never going to be a point
30:51
where they turn around and say, okay, yeah, we accept you But things were better 10 years ago Yeah
30:57
So they can get better again I think they're going to get worse
31:02
for the good bit of change. I really do. Now, and your previous call
31:06
I was talking about his daughter and I want to make a very, very quick anecdote
31:10
Of course. He spoke about how his daughter had this incident and, you know
31:16
and he didn't know how to handle it. Me and my wife, we've got a five-year-old
31:20
and a one-year-old, both girls. And my wife's the secondary school teacher
31:24
So, my wife said to me one day, she goes, we need to sit down
31:28
and we need to have a conversation with our daughter about racism. and I was like, well, why does she need to know that
31:34
She goes, if we don't tell her that she's different or that she's a certain skin tone, somebody else is
31:42
And that was a conversation that I had to have with a five-year-old and I'm glad that we did because in her school
31:49
a situation arose where another little girl didn't want her to play
31:52
because my daughter picked a Moana doll, which has slightly darker skin and this child didn't want my daughter to play with her
31:58
because of this darker skin doll. And I'm glad that we had that conversation
32:04
She was ready. Four-wanders, four-armed. Mate, I've got to crack on. We'll talk again, I hope
32:08
Thank you for that
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