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This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 16th of April 2026. 00:00 – Well-off have 20 more good years of health than poorest - WHY IS THIS? 48:29 Why has shoplifting increased by 133%? 01:13:10 - PM tells LBC there’s an 'overwhelming case' for more restrictions on social media – Natasha Clark, LBC’s Political Editor 01:36:15 – Mystery Hour #jamesobrien #politics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
four minutes after 10 is the time a very good morning indeed to you i never notice while it's
0:08
happening i only notice when it's over but we seem to have moved out of that period where it
0:13
felt as though it would be inappropriate to talk about anything other than the uh the war in iran
0:19
a similar thing happened with ukraine albeit that that is an entirely different war
0:23
an entirely different type of war but it it's it's just worth noting isn't it i mean there
0:28
haven't been any major developments obviously the fact that uh one side well both sides are far from
0:35
trustworthy but one side is prone to contradict itself within minutes of opening its mouth and
0:40
incredibly that's the side that we still consider to be our allies um but in in terms of that sense
0:46
i had and i shared it with you a few times i'd say to eleanor some mornings at 11 o'clock or 12
0:51
o'clock it's going to sound a bit odd if we start talking about shoplifting isn't it having just
0:57
sort of spent an hour examining the likelihood of world war three starting soon or questions about
1:02
whether the united states of america is currently undergoing its own suiz its own sort of abandonment
1:07
of the the top seat at top table when it comes to international relations questions about whether
1:13
or not donald trump has finally um lost entirely lost touch with sanity talking about whether or
1:21
not the most powerful man on the planet is entirely unfit for purpose and now we're going
1:25
to talk i mean we never actually talk about parking tickets on this program because it is
1:29
always an unrelentingly dull conversation ditto speeding tickets but um moving on to shall we say
1:37
more quotidian is that the right way to pronounce the word more ordinary territory more normal more
1:42
more um common or garden territory felt odd and suddenly it doesn't feel odd today i don't know
1:51
why and i just thought i'd mention it to you because we will probably return here's an example
1:55
Lebanon has revealed that it is unaware of Israel talks, which kind of sums up what I was just trying to say to you
2:02
about not being able to get a clear bead on anything from anyone at the moment. So talks ongoing with Israel, according to President Trump
2:11
and Lebanon have said that they're unaware of any talks that they are scheduled to attend
2:15
And there it is. I mean, that's possibly why we're not talking about it, he says
2:18
as he starts talking about it, and feels that weird awakening of interest
2:24
because once again we're looking at a scenario that just three, two short years ago
2:29
would have been entirely unthinkable. The White House announces that Israel and Lebanon are having talks today
2:36
and Lebanon says that's news to us. It's seven minutes after ten
2:42
and the world is still bonkers. Which is why perhaps it's nice to return attention
2:46
to more manageable matters, albeit in this case genuinely heartbreaking. Right, one of my favourite things to do with you, matron, is to say a word and just wonder what it does in your brain
3:01
When you hear a word, what does it conjure up? Either, you know, a mental image, possibly sometimes even a physical response, but most often a mental image, an idea, a reaction
3:15
It'll be partly an intellectual reaction, as in your brain will respond to whatever that word is
3:19
and it might be partly an emotional reaction, as in the word or the phrase will trigger feelings inside you
3:26
I'm going to say a word, and I just want you to take a moment, if you can
3:32
to sort of run it around your mouth, you know, if it were wine
3:37
I interviewed the wonderful, wonderful man, Mark Constantine, who owns Lush, runs Lush, the high street
3:46
what would you call it, really? sort of toiletries and so much more, really
3:53
And he has synesthesia. And so does Sheila Fogarty, as she's told you in the past
3:59
And this means that you see, one sense responds to something that for people who haven't got synesthesia
4:08
an entirely different sense would respond. So with him, it's often smell
4:12
It's why he's such a gifted perfumier. but he would I'd ask him about a period
4:18
and I realised this halfway through the interview that he would he would
4:23
express himself through the medium of smell so he'd be talking about
4:28
a period in his life and halfway through the interview I found myself saying
4:33
well what does it smell like because I'm quite I hope you'd agree
4:38
I'm quite good with words I can express myself quite well with words
4:43
it's a wonderful thing to be able to do, because it means that you don't have to tamp down or store up your feelings
4:49
If you can express your feelings in any way, whether it's through music or through words
4:53
or through smell, it just frees you from being a sort of hostage to your own emotions
4:59
But he uses smell. I've just been thinking about it ever since, because it's such a fascinating phenomenon
5:05
And so that's why I use the phrase, just roll it around your mouth like you would a glass of wine, a taste of wine, or a, I don't know, a particularly delicious date, or something
5:13
like that because the word I want you to just think about for a minute is privilege
5:22
Privilege. What does that word mean to you? What do you see? You might see a picture of Lord Snooty
5:30
if you were reading the Beano not too long ago. You might think of somebody like Jacob
5:39
Brees Mogg or you might think of somebody you know who was born 3-0 up and thought they'd scored
5:45
a hat-trick. Martin was here yesterday. Martin Lewis was in the studio yesterday and one of the
5:51
things I've always loved about Martin is his acknowledgement of the role that luck has played
5:55
in his life. And you know not to downplay and he doesn't the incredible amounts of hard work and
6:03
and effort and insight that has brought his career to such an extraordinary place
6:09
But he always, always stresses luck. It's the basis of the there but for the grace of God go I dictum, isn't it
6:16
And the people who don't have that, who don't understand that they're privileged
6:20
are sometimes the most dangerous and unsympathetic people in the world. That's why I love that phrase so much
6:26
Born on third base and they think they've scored a triple if you're American. or born 3-0 up and they think they've scored a hat trick if you're British
6:34
Privilege. What is privilege to you? One of the strangest things about privilege is that it is often invisible
6:40
and it's more invisible to the people what have got it than it is to the people what have not
6:46
If you are looking up the ladder of life, you're going to see privilege, I think, a lot more clearly
6:51
than people who are several rungs above you on the ladder because they think not only that that's perfectly normal
6:56
but also that if it does involve some sort of advantage over others it's an advantage that is
7:01
entirely deserved an advantage that is entirely deserved and it isn't that's because it's luck
7:07
it's serendipity serendipity is also one of my favorite words um and and when i started doing
7:15
this job i don't think i was particularly conscious of all the privilege that i've had in my life i
7:20
I knew I been to a posh school and I knew that I was blessed with some skills that are happily transferable into the media marketplace I needed no lessons on how lucky I was to have married the woman that I married but I don know even then in the early days of our marriage
7:37
that I fully appreciated just how lucky I was even to have met her
7:41
And that's privilege that is not born of wealth or income or education
7:47
you know, falling in love, meeting an incredible person, but you're privileged if you've had a secure upbringing
7:53
which makes you emotionally literate enough to sustain a meaningful relationship. You can manage, for example, fidelity
8:01
Is that a privilege? Is that something that's learned, something that's taught
8:05
I don't know. White privilege was a phrase I'd never heard when I started doing this show
8:11
But I understand it a lot better now. Of course, it's easily corrupted, isn't it
8:16
You can say to somebody who is white and deeply underprivileged that they are being pushed to the side in order to promote the interests of black people
8:26
which is not, of course, what happens, but the phrase white privilege can be deliberately misinterpreted and misused
8:33
to create that idea of resentment in the minds of underprivileged white people
8:37
All it really means, white privilege, in its purest moment, is that you're never going to be a victim in a society like ours
8:45
of blatant or implicit massive discrimination. You're just not. And you don't know what it's like to grow up
8:55
knowing that there are people who may never say it out loud but who will look at you as scant, as a direct consequence
9:04
They will look at you differently because you're black than they would do if you were white. That's it. That's all it is
9:10
Privilege. What are you thinking of? Some lovely answers coming in. I'll share some of them after the break, but I want that word to stay in your mind, okay
9:20
And then, I suppose the other word is deprivation. Now, I say deprivation, what do you see
9:28
Oliver Twist? I mean, this is England? Genuine poverty? Benefit Street? The TV show
9:37
Of course, this is me demonstrating my privilege, because all of my examples of deprivation have come from either fiction or reality television
9:45
I have never lived with or in deprivation. Therefore, for me, as someone who has privilege
9:51
I look down the ladder towards deprivation and can see things that are out of the ordinary
9:58
but for the people living there, they would be entirely ordinary. What is deprivation
10:03
Running out of money before the end of the month has always struck me as something that must be absolutely, absolutely exhausting
10:12
Having to watch as you do the weekly shot, very, very, having to put things back
10:17
when you get to the till. Not being able to give your children clothes
10:22
that fit properly or food that serves the purpose that food is supposed to serve
10:30
I don't know. What does deprivation mean? It doesn't mean I can't afford a holiday
10:34
it means I can't afford the basics. To me it does, but I have, apart from what you have told me over the years
10:42
I have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of deprivation that could be described as first-hand
10:51
And I think that's why, when I read a story like the one
10:55
that is published by the Office of National Statistics today, I feel a curious mixture of, well, curiosity
11:02
and horror, or heartbreak at least. I just don't get it. It's funny, I turned a page in my newspaper this morning
11:14
from a story about Elon Musk potentially becoming the most powerful human
11:17
in the history of our planet by dint of launching a bunch of satellites
11:21
He's already, of course, depending on what day of the week it is, he's already the richest man in the world
11:26
Possibly what? Well, I suppose by some measures, if you're the richest man in the world today
11:30
you're the richest man that has ever lived. it felt to me really odd but also pertinent that i turned the page from a story about somebody who
11:39
has so much money that since the time we came on air this morning his fortune will have grown more
11:43
than we will ever make in our lifetimes even if proper well i don't know i haven't got the maths
11:48
to say if we put all of our incomes together would we have made as much by the end of this program
11:52
um as as elon musk would have done single-handedly just by sitting there watching his own fortune
11:57
grow but I turn a page from a contemplation of wealth that is almost inconceivable or
12:04
incomprehensible impenetrable to to normal people like us and then I turn to a story about people
12:12
living in the wealthiest areas a story about England in 2026 and and I mention England because
12:17
that's why the research is focused but we can broaden it out to the whole United Kingdom of
12:21
course we can. People living in the wealthiest areas can expect how many more years of healthy
12:29
life than those living in the most deprived areas, do you think? Healthy life, so good living
12:37
What do you think? How many years? Five years? So, oddly, I don't currently live in one of the
12:45
most affluent parts of England, but I have done until about four years ago, and I live smack in
12:50
between Chiswick and Richmond, which is absolutely at the top of the list. So let's use me as
12:54
someone who lives in a privileged area. I live in a very privileged area in a non-privileged
13:02
town, if you like. I will live, and you live, let's say, for the purpose of this discussion
13:10
you live in a deprived area of town. How much longer, how many more healthy years of life
13:18
will I have on average than you? Five years more? I mean, could you imagine that
13:24
2026? Got more advancement, technological access, freedom, food, than at any other point in human history
13:34
and I'm going to have five whole years of healthy living more than you are? In a deprived part of town
13:39
No, it's not five. Ten years. Ten more years of life. I get born
13:44
into a life that will contain 10 more healthy years. No, it's not 10 years
13:52
You were born in a poor part of town. I'm born in a privileged, wealthy
13:55
part of town and I will have 15 more healthy years than you do
14:03
Except it's not 15 either. It's 20. In the United Kingdom, in 2026
14:13
you are gifted 20 years more of good living of healthy years than if if you're born in a wealthy part
14:27
of town and if you are born in a poorer part of town and all i want you to tell me today is why
14:32
because if you're at the top of the ladder you don't understand why because you've got no idea
14:41
what it's like at the bottom of the ladder and if you're at the bottom of the ladder you don't
14:45
really understand why because you've no idea what it's like at the top of the ladder. But somehow between those two positions we learn from each other today Why So what do you think a privileged person doesn understand about why deprivation would shorten your life
15:06
Or make you less healthy? 03456060973. And if you are a privileged person
15:14
what do you think a deprived person may not understand about why you are... All right, I've started..
15:18
Don't laugh, don't laugh. All right, especially you, Keith. I've started going to yoga, right
15:23
I'm loving my yoga. at the moment, really loving it. Very surprised to love it so much
15:28
because normally my brain goes fizzing and flying around the room and I'm supposed to be sitting there going
15:32
but for some reason, at this stage in my life, I'm getting into yoga
15:36
That's probably going to give me another couple of good years, right? It'll be good for my heart, it's good for my health
15:42
it's good for my muscles. I'm doing a bit of yoga. Now, I'm paying money to do yoga
15:47
in an extraordinarily middle-class environment with sort of gongs and candles and a teacher and stuff like that
15:54
But I could. I could just lie on my sitting room floor and do some yoga
15:58
But I don't. And I wouldn't. And that somehow speaks to privilege versus deprivation
16:03
It's not just about access to something. We might all have access to something. It's about ease of access
16:08
But what? What is it? 0345 6060 973. Why does being born in a wealthy part of this country
16:20
gift you 20 more healthy years of life than you'll get if you're born in a poor part
16:27
Okay? 0345 6060 973. What would a privileged person not understand about a life of difficulty
16:39
Deprivation seems like a big word, but it's the word that we're going to use. What are the biggest factors, do you think
16:45
in this 20-year gap? And what would a poorer person not understand
16:50
about a life they will never live? What is it that they would be perhaps surprised or shocked to discover
16:56
that their life would be like had the cards fallen differently at the moment of their birth
17:03
It's 21 minutes after 10. 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need
17:09
James O'Brien on LBC. 23 minutes after 10 is the time. I suppose first principles
17:15
Gareth says, James, I think you need to define deprivation. It's certainly not only about money lasting to the end of the month
17:21
I mean, respectfully, Gareth, this is what the phone-in is for. That's exactly what I'm trying to do
17:25
In a way, I'm trying to define deprivation and define privilege in a way that will explain or help us all understand
17:33
why having privilege gifts you 20 more years of healthy life than being born into deprivation does
17:42
And I think in answering that question, you will get the definitions of privilege and deprivation
17:48
that I've tried to start the process of articulating but I'm not claiming to have finished
17:54
Yeah, you do it, Gay. You tell me what deprivation means. Clever clogs
17:58
24 after 10 is the time. Mo is in Ealing. Mo, what would you like to say
18:03
Hi, James. Hello. Long-time listener, first-time caller. Welcome. You're my spiritual guide
18:08
Stop it. I live up the road from you in Ealing. You do. If you ever want to meet me at The Grove
18:13
I will buy you Sunday lunch. Sounds like you're calling me out for a fight there, Mo
18:18
No, no, I will buy you Sunday lunch if you don't want to meet me at the Grove. Thank you, mate
18:22
So anyway, living in Ealing, W52, you know the area. I do
18:26
I'm pretty sure you know it very well, those huge houses, all the rest of that, right
18:30
Yes. Getting a GP appointment in that area is so easy, I cannot tell you
18:36
Now, I come from similar stock as you. I come from West Midlands, from Birmingham, working class
18:41
My wife's from Wolverhampton. when I was up there, we used to have to fight each other
18:44
Just for any new listeners to the programme, Mo's not suggesting I'm working class
18:48
This is a geographical connection that we have. I went to public school. Carry on, Mo
18:54
Yes, so effectively, we used to have to fight each other to get a GP appointment
18:59
I know it's trivial. Yeah, no, of course it's not trivial. In the morning, bang on, and you know
19:03
you used to have to try and get in that queue first just to get that appointment for the day
19:08
I email my GP now. I can talk to him on whatever. My GP doesn't ask me to sit around
19:13
I took my wife to my GP surgery for the first time after we got married. There was nobody sitting in there
19:19
I went in on time. I got seen on time. I didn't have to wait around
19:23
You know, it's just the access to services and being in an area like that where you're not living on top of each other
19:31
The infrastructure is there. There's a dentist across the road. all of those kind of facilities, services, infrastructure, so on and so forth
19:39
is pretty much available to you. So, Paul, in Birmingham, not having that
19:46
Do we know why? Because just to stress, you're in a position to make this comparison
19:51
and I, as I've been at great pains to point out this morning, I simply am not
19:55
But do we know why that is? Well, I mean, is there a..
20:00
I mean, I presume the statistics are there to show that areas have X number of people per GP
20:05
and that the ratio is going to be much, much lower in wealthier parts than it is in poorer parts
20:11
But how has that come about? That is essentially all I can put it down to. But how has that come about
20:16
A street with 100 terrace houses. Yes, exactly. A street like Park Hill that's got seven huge houses on there
20:22
and it's just as long as any of the terraced street in, I don't know
20:26
sort of a poorer-deprived area of part of Brent or something. I think, you know, you've got access to those services
20:32
The amount of green space, you know, yourself in W5 that we've got available to us
20:36
it's insane compared to, you know... I mean, I'm in TW8, mate
20:42
Don't you go W5-ing me. I mean, I'm TW8 all day long. But I think you can make that comparison
20:49
You know where I'm coming from. Of course I do, yes. We can see abundantly in places like that, basically
20:55
that just... here's my gripe revealing at the moment. They did not sweep up all the leaves from last autumn
21:03
That's all I've got to complain about. That's a really good point. And if I go back to my mum and dad
21:07
they've got so much to complain about because of the area that they live in. Yeah
21:12
And that's it. I mean, you've got to be like you to make the contribution that you've just made
21:18
You've got to actually almost move from one extreme to the other. It's not enough to move in the margins
21:23
as many of us have done. and you know we might have lived in some poorer parts of town when we were students or something
21:28
like that but we're tourists in fact speaking of being a student fraser cited that brilliant
21:33
pulps on common people and the lyric if you called your dad he could end it all as in whatever you're
21:38
suffering whatever deprivation you are suffering if you come from a background like mine you could
21:42
call your dad when he was still with us and he would he would send you some money he would end
21:46
it all whereas a life lived without that safety net without that bat phone as it were or you know
21:53
things are bad, I can get help. There you go. I mean, Mo makes
21:57
a brilliant point about GPs and doctors. Thank you, Mo, and thank you for the kind
22:01
words as well. I do appreciate them. But he triggers in my mind
22:05
a thought of safety nets. I have no idea what it would be like
22:09
not to have one, right? So growing up, however bad things got
22:15
and however much trouble I got into, or however quote skint end quotes I thought I
22:19
was, I would always be able to phone home for help I didn do it very often but on the night before my wedding I realised that I done my sums wrong and I was short on the money that I would need to pay the next day to various caterers and entertainers and suppliers
22:36
And I was down to brass farthings. I was literally emptying my current account
22:40
I paid for the wedding, we had paid for the wedding, we had paid for the honeymoon, all of that
22:47
And I was a thousand pounds short. I'd done a sum wrong. I'd put the figure in the wrong column
22:51
And so I phoned my dad. and said, can you give me £1,000 until I get sorted after I get back from honeymoon
22:58
And he did. And that is an enormous privilege. How many people listening to this programme
23:06
could make a phone call now to someone they care for or cares for them
23:11
someone they love, could make a phone call now to a family member or I suppose a friend
23:15
and just say, I need a grand until the end of next month. Can you help me out? There's an extraordinary book by Tom Wolfe
23:22
called A Man in Full. It's not his most famous book. His most famous book is Bonfire of the Vanities
23:27
But there's a pivotal point in A Man in Full when one of the protagonist's cars
23:36
he's unemployed and he's gone for a job interview and his car gets nudged by another vehicle
23:41
a bigger vehicle, out of the space in which he's parked it. And it gets nudged into just a zone where it will get ticketed
23:49
enough of the car is poking over the line of the parking space. He gets a ticket and he gets towed
23:54
and he can't afford to get his car back. And his entire life unravels from that point
24:00
He's at a job interview. His car, through no fault of his own, gets towed away
24:05
and he hasn't got the ready money to get his car out of that pound
24:10
And from that point on, his life unravels. That's what it's like when you haven't got someone at the end of the phone
24:16
who could lend you $500 or £1,000 until the end of next month. That shortens your life
24:22
Living with that shortens your life. And the reason why I began
24:26
by asking you to roll the word privilege around your mouth is that if you, like me
24:30
have that option, you've no idea, no idea what it's like not to have it
24:36
So, safety net. A social safety net provided by loved ones. Provided by privilege
24:43
Medical access. More on that, please. and build on what Mo has told us
24:47
because that's, in some ways, the most obvious, but also the most important factor
24:51
They're simply getting help when you need it. 0345 6060 973. Why do people born in poor parts of this country
24:59
have 20 fewer good and healthy years than people born in wealthy parts
25:06
0345 6060 973. Dominic Ellis has your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC
25:12
34 is the time. A little more on that conversation you heard reported in the news there between our political editor, Natasha Clark, and Sir Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister that took place earlier this morning
25:24
Natasha will join us in about 15 minutes or so, maybe a little less, so don't miss that
25:29
Mystery hour on the way at 12, of course, which is nice. and in the next hour at the moment
25:36
almost as a sort of reiteration of that observation about a pause button having been pressed
25:43
with regards to the madness in the White House and the war in the Middle East
25:49
I am probably going to turn your attention back to shoplifting not just for the reasons that I shared with you yesterday
25:55
but also because some statistics have been published today that propel it once again to the forefront of the national interest
26:02
but speaking of the national interest we are trying to pin down in a way i probably haven't
26:08
explained this brilliantly but in in a way that involves one tribe in this country talking to
26:15
another tribe and and answering the question almost from a position of knowledge that the
26:21
other tribe won't have why would be born born into being born into affluence give you 20 more
26:30
healthy years of life than being born into relative poverty why and how can it still be
26:37
the case in 2026 when there is objectively so much comfort and luxury and privilege and money
26:45
swilling around the place janice is in cottingham in east georgshire janice what would you like to
26:49
say hi there hello janice yes i'd just like to um talk about an observation that i made over the
26:56
years when I worked in the pharmaceutical industry and part of my job in the early years I would go
27:02
and visit GP surgeries and that would be across a wide geographical area. Yeah. And of course you'd
27:09
have the nice little cozy villages where all the worried well were and you would have the very
27:15
deprived areas where GPs would be seeing 50 patients in a surgery compared to the other areas
27:24
that we're seeing 20, you would see the absolute stark contrasting lifestyles
27:30
So you'd have them sat there worrying there'd be so many unemployed, poorly educated people
27:37
that would have low expectations of anything for themselves, let alone the children
27:46
And they've got this cycle of stress, and you can see it. And of course, we all know stress
27:51
And we think we know. We think we know. Well, we know that stress triggers cortisol
27:55
Oh, yes, sorry, forgive me. Yes, of course. And then, of course, that's a chronic issue
27:59
because if you are pumping chronically cortisol around your body, that leads to chronic inflammation
28:05
which is a trigger for cancers and all sorts of other diseases
28:09
over a period of time. I do think that contributes. I'm sure it does
28:16
Yeah, we look at diet, as well as other lifestyle factors like smoking
28:21
and people don't have time to stop and think. It's a bit like the song Simply Red
28:30
to worry about feeding their babies. I can't remember that lyric, but they don't have time
28:35
Whereas if you contrast that with the worried well and the older people there, that they're on the bowling green
28:42
you know, at 80, enjoying themselves, and it is absolutely stark. And when a GP tells you that what they do in deprived areas, they are so busy, they look at the patient, they observe the patient walking in, and they make a decision often before that patient's bottom hits the seat if there is a serious issue or not, because they don't have the time
29:07
The other factor I've noticed as well, in terms of quality of care
29:11
so you'll probably be aware of the hospital rankings recently, and up in Cottingham in Hull, bottom of the pile
29:20
One of the issues has always been, how do you attract medical people to this area
29:26
To more difficult placements. Absolutely. So, what they have done at Hull Hospitals at one point, not that long ago
29:34
were advertising the really affluent areas. So they'd be looking at the really beautiful rural villages
29:39
that were 10 miles from the coast. This is what you could have. And they would be sprawling properties
29:45
with two or three acres of land for £700,000. They're living in a semi for more than that
29:53
down where they're currently on. So they moved for the lifestyle. That's how they attracted some good clinicians
30:00
for that. But again, all you are doing is creating even more divide, because a lot of
30:06
the people they're seeing are living in tower blocks. They don't get fresh air, the kids
30:10
have nowhere to play, etc., etc. Well, I mean, you cover so many points. I suspect the biggest is stress
30:18
Absolutely, I totally agree with you. And that's the hardest thing to communicate, because, you know, everyone thinks they're
30:24
stressed. There are merchant bankers earning a million pounds a year who think they're
30:27
stressed and in many ways they are stressed but it's not the stress that you're talking about
30:32
no it's not the stress of day-to-day living how they're going to put meal on the table for the
30:36
children what is the difference because you know if i don't get this deal then i won't get my bonus
30:40
and if i don't get my bonus then my wife might leave me for the tennis coach and if my wife
30:44
leaves me for the tennis coach then i'll probably have to i mean you know i'm stressed i'm stressed
30:48
i can't afford the school fees i'm stressed there's vat so i mean that is stress but it's
30:53
It's comical stress compared to... It is. It is. If my car gets taken away, I won't be able to get it back
30:59
Or I can't. I won't be able to feed the kids on Thursday or Friday
31:03
because I'm not getting any money until Saturday. Oh, I was at the tip the other day, okay
31:08
And I'm always friendly with the chaps when I go there because they're just lovely people
31:12
They are a particular type, I find. People working at the municipal tip
31:16
They're always really friendly and nice. I agree with you. And when I go, if I've been baking, I take them from sausage rolls
31:22
Flipping, eh? All right. You're putting us all to shame now, Janice. And they always help me
31:26
But when you hear that, oh, I'm going to have to go to the other one
31:29
I've been moved. And it takes him two bus rides to get to work
31:33
and he's got to be there for nine. And he's crossing probably 20 miles
31:37
from the really poor end of town to a nice affluent area that has a very nice tip
31:43
Sure. You know, and it's these things. You know, one guy there
31:47
he isn't 64 until two days from now, because I remembered. Yeah
31:52
I have to say, he looks at least 15 to 20 years older than that
31:57
Oh, gosh. He cycles to work. He's thin as a rake but diabetic
32:03
and that's due to diet and stress and all the other factors
32:07
And you just see the difference physically in people. How did we take that away
32:12
I mean, Wes Streeting was on particularly good form this morning, I felt, from what I heard of his appearance on The Breakfast Show
32:18
And he is revealing things that are good achievements for the government and for his department
32:25
Massive or significant reductions in people on waiting lists for routine hospital treatment
32:32
and urgent referrals for suspected cancer up by a significant measure from 72.8% to 80.5% above the actual target
32:44
So, you know, he is a politician and hopefully this is a government that does care about the stuff that we're talking about in ways that previous governments for at least the previous 14 years didn't give two figs and actually introduced policies that made everything worse
32:58
But how do you address the stress? What would politics look like
33:03
What would policies look like that help with that? Oh, do you know, I am clueless
33:07
If I knew that, I'd wave my wand. I do, it sickens me when you look at the likes of Elon Musk that could actually, with, you know, the loose change from his pocket could make so much difference in the world to so many different communities
33:23
But the thing I see over my years, and I'm well into my 60s now, is the changes over the years and they're drifting apart
33:33
There is no community anymore. I mean, how can you have community when people just live in tower blocks
33:38
and people are living behind gated communities now. You never used to see that
33:45
People don't go next door. I mean, tower blocks were supposed... I mean, I read a lot about it
33:51
My auntie Lily lived in one in Sheffield and she had quite good relations with some of her neighbours
33:55
They were supposed to sort of provide a vertical equivalent of a horizontal terrace, weren't they
34:01
But I mean, I guess you're right. I think gated communities... I keep getting told on, when I was still on Twitter
34:09
I kept getting told that I lived in a gated community. I've got absolutely no idea where that came from
34:13
But I think they've always existed. They're just probably more, slightly more prevalent now
34:19
There's a big difference between cities, isn't there, as well, I think
34:23
urban and rural. Just on the thing you said about buses, in London in particular
34:29
we don't realise how privileged we are simply to have public transport because all we ever do is moan about it
34:33
But getting from, I come into work by public transport every day, and the lad you describe who's working at the municipal tip
34:39
it's an entirely different proposition for him to get from his home to his work via public transport than it would be for someone living in the South East
34:45
or living in London. So there's another thing there that would explain stress
34:50
the stress and the struggle of getting to and from work. And interestingly, you know, I do remember years ago
34:56
I used to go into two big medical centres in one of the most deprived areas
35:01
it was the biggest counsellor state in Europe at one point. Gosh. And it had the highest teen pregnancy in Europe at one point
35:09
Was that near Sheffield? That's all true. No, that's Grant's home in Hull. Okay, forgive me
35:13
Yeah. And you would go in there waiting to see the GPs
35:17
You'd sit and take your turn with the patients in those days. And there were several practices in one big health centre
35:23
And the amount of young mums that were there, just so they could get, in those days
35:29
they would get a house, a flat or whatever. if they had a child. So you had all these then single-parent families
35:36
Boyfriends would come and go, you know. So it's cyclical. The next generation hasn't got a chance
35:42
And you've got to think about those children don't know any difference
35:45
And the political mood of the moment was to attack them and to attack the children
35:50
I mean, I'm opening up my newspaper today and I'm reading stories about why we need to reduce tax
35:55
for rich people fleeing Dubai and cut welfare in order to buy more bombs
35:59
And, of course, the only way you can really reduce the stress of the people that Janice is describing is by making them less financially insecure
36:09
But, I mean, what does that even look like in a world where almost all politics is geared towards entrenching wealth and protecting wealth and blaming everybody who hasn't got any wealth for their own conditions
36:22
Oh, man. Thank you, Janice. It's stress of choice, a lot of you are telling me
36:26
It's the difference between, if you like, good stress and bad stress
36:29
or wealthy stress and poor stress is the consequences. So let me think about me being stressed
36:36
Oh, what if my rage hours aren't great? What if I don't get my bonus? What if this, that, or the other
36:42
I mean, compared to what if I can't feed the kids next week? What if I can't get to work because my Oyster card's empty
36:50
and I'm not getting paid until the end of next week? Remember, a large proportion of people on universal credit are in work, despite the best efforts of appalling people and tabloid journalists to persuade the population otherwise
37:04
And an awful lot of people, almost everybody out of work is not out of work because they live in a life of Riley
37:10
They don't enjoy the existence that they have. And, of course, talking about this is still quite rare in this country, which is another reason why
37:20
if you're born into a wealthy area you get 20 more years of good living than you do if you born into a poor area because we don really like to talk about it or think about it and we promoted politics since pretty much the 1970s
37:36
Certainly since 1979, we've promoted politics that sort of sells the lie that everybody can be privileged
37:42
if they just worked a little harder or got on their bike. James O'Brien on LBC
37:48
Ten minutes to eleven is the time. I'm going to read you a couple of texts. I'll tell you what is a privilege, and I mean this most sincerely, folks
37:54
quality of contributors to my program. It's a privilege that I thank my lucky stars for every single day
38:02
It's not necessarily evident every single day, although it's evident today. I can't think of a day when it wasn't evident
38:07
but there have been some. But it is an extraordinary privilege to have the pleasure of canvassing your contributions on a daily basis
38:14
And here are two texts that prove the point quite magnificently. This is from Sufyan
38:19
What poor people often don't understand about the privileged. And then there's a list. Privilege doesn't always feel like privilege
38:26
Many privileged people grew up with stability, so they think that's normal
38:30
They don't realise how unusual their safety net is. They assume their success is a result purely of personal effort
38:37
They don't see the invisible scaffolding that supported them. What a beautiful phrase
38:42
And they genuinely don't experience the same stress. And then things a privileged person may not understand
38:48
Why someone is late? Buses, childcare, chaos. why someone can't plan ahead no stability why someone is exhausted multiple jobs poor health
38:59
they are not being cruel they simply don't live in that world they often underestimate how hard
39:06
poverty is to escape while privileged people may think if i can do it anyone can hard work always
39:12
pays off but they don't see structural barriers discrimination generational disadvantage and the
39:18
lack of networks. Poor people sometimes assume that the privileged are cold or uncaring when
39:23
often they are simply unaware. They don't realise how much fear shapes the lives of the poor
39:30
A privileged person rarely fears eviction, bailiffs, losing the heating, not being able to
39:35
afford food or to help their children. And poor people sometimes assume that the privileged are
39:41
fearless because they are stronger when really it's because they are safer and as if to prove
39:49
the point this from mo um i'm going to get this absolutely clear it's the stress that kills you
39:57
james literally counting every penny from one paycheck to the next missing meals taking different
40:03
routes when with the kids to avoid shops so that they don't ask to go in it's this constant gnawing
40:09
away in your brain knowing that you have to stretch every sinew you have just to get through
40:14
the week being scared of the weekends because you know school meals won't cover your kids for two
40:19
days you try to hide it but it bleeds out the stress so much so that your five-year-old starts
40:24
asking if we can afford something when he picks it up at a supermarket the heartbreak and the
40:29
failure you feel when your kids start understanding that we can barely afford the basics and they
40:34
slowly so they slowly start asking for less and less avoiding friends and family in case the
40:40
meetup leads to loads of unexpected spending keeping a smile on your face to show the world
40:46
while hiding all your struggles takes a toll if i needed any help understanding the difference
40:52
between that stress and privileged stress i don't need any help anymore mo thank you
40:59
particularly the line about the five-year-old in the supermarket. You either get that or you've never been anywhere near it
41:06
And if you've never been anywhere near it, I suspect you don't realise how lucky you are
41:13
Sarah is in Clerkenwell. Sarah, what would you like to say? I live in a tower block
41:19
I'm on a council estate. I grew up on a council estate. I live in a very affluent area
41:25
But the poor people, the people in my flats and on council estates
41:30
It's like a two-tier system, really. It's just, you know, we are so
41:34
there's people that are so poor. In the last month, we've had a suicide off the tower block
41:40
the 53rd person's jump. Oh, my God. We've had, you know, you talk about stress
41:45
These people are, you know, we've got someone who's psychotic, who's threatening to kill everyone
41:53
and yet just over the road, we've got lots of middle-class people
41:57
sitting outside Moro's, having their lunch. It's completely... What's Moro's? Is that just a local place
42:05
It's like a local restaurant, isn't it? I didn't know. I thought it was short for Morrison's
42:10
I thought, what are they doing? What are the middle classes doing sitting outside Morrison's? We have no Morrison's
42:14
We've got, you know, I wish we did have a Morrison's. But I'm on the Tenants Association
42:20
I fight the council. The council, sorry. I've got to dry through it
42:24
There is no funding. There's just absolutely no funding. People commit benefit fraud
42:33
They shoplift. And it's all these shoplifters who've got to do this
42:37
All benefit fraud. Everyone's on the pit. That's the only way they see through
42:42
They have to make, they have to get on these benefits. And they have to shoplift to be able to even eat and survive
42:51
It's just like the minimum wage is, you know, I've got quite radical views, I believe
42:56
Abolish private schools. Everyone should be capped with what they earn. You know, you do a great job on the radio
43:04
but so does a plumber. Why should you earn so much more than a plumber
43:09
Hang on, leave me out of it, madam. No, no, I'm the excuse in you, but we need a system
43:15
You know, the government go, oh, we've upped the minimum wage. Well, you know, upping it by a pound
43:20
It does make a difference, but I appreciate that it's not going to touch the sides
43:24
of what we're describing today. It's not going to touch the sides, everyone in the flats
43:28
We've got a great community, but we've got a community in kind of desperate
43:34
you know, with desperate people. You know, we had to have a coffee morning for people that were affected by this suicide
43:40
Of course. Of course, we've got great community around, but the council have got no funding
43:48
You know, it's as much... got less than they used to have
43:52
So in some areas, things have got worse. How big a gulf in understanding
43:57
do you think there is between the people sitting outside Moro's and the people sitting in... Massive
44:02
massive. I nannied for a long time, so I've worked for people with lots and lots of money
44:08
Gosh. And they're kind of, you know, they're breakdown. You know, they'd have breakdown if they're clean
44:16
or wasn't coming to clean the toilet. oh my god I've never cleaned a toilet before
44:22
I'm just like do you know I've had the last month the soil stack in the tower block
44:29
that takes every I'm on the 17th floor everyone's toilet waste come into my cupboard
44:36
and I phone the council and they go that's not an emergency
44:41
it's not an emergency I said so everyone's toilet waste is coming down five floors
44:47
and you're going to take... They took three weeks to fix it
44:51
So basically you know we are living in squalor There no repairs Our lift has been out for three months There old people that can get out of the block There people with kids There people that can feed their kids
45:07
I've grown up in London always on a councillor's say I fight like mad for equality
45:15
But you just can't... Keir Starmer to me isn't radical enough. I like Jeremy Corbyn
45:23
But, you know, that's me. But, you know, we need, you know, we need a different system
45:29
I think if everybody, oddly, even people who are quite sceptical about some of the ideas that you describe as radical
45:36
if everybody could see the gulf that you describe as clearly as you can see it
45:43
or as clearly as almost everybody on, well, no, actually, because there are people on the wrong side of the gulf who can't see it either, aren't there
45:48
because they know so little about the kind of families that you used a nanny for
45:53
You kind of need to have a bead on the other side of the gulf, don't you, to see the gulf so clearly
45:59
You need to be able to see the other side, to see how big it is. There you go, I got there in the end
46:03
But if everybody could see how big it is, then these ideas, these politics
46:08
I don't think they would be radical. They would never understand those people in my face. They're so sad
46:12
Every day is a sadness. And they're lovely people. You know, the kids have got no money
46:17
the kids, there's people drug dealing, there's dealers, there's crackheads in the block
46:24
And the best way politically to sustain this is to sell the myth
46:28
that it's all the fault of the people caught in the mess, in the net
46:33
No, and of course they're all going to die. There's so many people in my flats of COPD
46:38
It's like they wear a badge, oh, my COPD's worse today. I'm just like, you're still smoking
46:44
because it's the only, they're all, a lot of them, not all of them
46:48
but a lot of them have got addictions because it's their only way through and they've just been
46:53
you know, you see the next generation and you just like, change this system
46:57
You've got to change, I mean, years ago I did stand for cancer but you just
47:01
yeah. Well, even that, you need to have space and time and a little bit of
47:06
do you know what I mean? It's a much, no one lives it. It's a two-tier system
47:10
until it changes, we're just, it's always, So you're the least confused person listening today about why you get 20 years more life
47:19
Absolutely. I'm amazed it's 20 years. You know, I've seen people die of, you know, young, you know, they die young
47:27
And it's entirely lifestyle related, and particularly in the areas of addiction
47:31
which again, the political narrative is so often one of culpability and blame
47:36
the absence of empathy and sympathy. Sarah, thank you. I mean, I couldn't have asked for a clearer depiction of the gulf that we were trying to describe
47:43
or some of the reasons behind it and, crucially, the failure to notice it
47:47
For people who don't know, COPD is chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, a whole bunch of lung conditions that can cause breathing difficulties
47:56
Thank you, Sarah. It's 11 o'clock and the next conversation will pick up, in some ways, where Sarah left off
48:03
If some of the issues that she touched upon affect you and you want to speak to the Samaritans
48:07
then the number that you need is 116123. I always remind you of that when it seems appropriate
48:14
And there are other ways you can get in touch with them. If you have the internet, you can contact them online
48:19
There'll be people manning the email account as well. But the phone number, the 24-7 phone number is 116 123
48:25
It's 11 o'clock. James O'Brien on LBC. Four minutes after 11, a slight postponement of that promised conversation
48:33
between Natasha Clarke and Sir Keir Starmer. We'll catch up with that at half past 11 today
48:39
I just felt the quality of calls in the last hour was so high. It would have been a shame to pull away
48:44
But I do want to talk about something associated but different next. And I don't know if you were listening yesterday
48:50
but for reasons that you probably have to go back and listen on catch-up to fully grasp
48:55
I began a conversation about the Southport Inquiry by talking about something I'd witnessed in the Chiswick branch of Marks and Spencers
49:03
on Monday afternoon, or possibly Tuesday. and it was a very rare sighting on the streets of suburbia
49:15
It was a shoplifter being tackled and the reason it struck me so hard
49:23
I don't know if this is relevant to the conversation we had in the last hour, I genuinely don't know
49:29
If you are in a supermarket in a poorer part of town, are the staff on security more likely to stop and accost shoplifters
49:37
I don't know that they are. Looking at the figures that I'll share with you shortly, I suspect that this is almost a classless problem
49:43
Greggs is the one that has really struck me. I saw someone just walk into Greggs
49:50
help themselves to a variety of goods, and then run out. And there was nothing that the staff could
49:56
and I don't think it's controversial to say, should have done about it
50:01
And this apparently, chatting to somebody in there, happens quite often. They're just sort of almost treating Greggs like a buffet
50:10
knowing that the staff there presumably are under instruction not to endanger themselves by chasing anybody
50:18
who's come in to nick a couple of sandwiches and a bag of quavers
50:22
and six energy drinks, which was extraordinary, big pockets. and that's why I was so struck on Tuesday
50:31
by the encounter. I got caught shoplifting as a kid. I've told you this before
50:39
The store detective looking back elected to get a sort of 14-year-old boy
50:46
who was nicking LP records from Woolworths and I don't know whether back in 1984
50:52
there were echoes of 1984 in the last hour of the programme, I weren't there, but this is the actual 1984, not the novel
50:58
No, I beg your pardon, 1986. That's the sequel. Whether or not back then in Woolworths in Kidderminster
51:06
the store detective would have preferred to collar a 14-year-old record thief
51:14
than, for example, a 25-year-old, potentially much more violent and dangerous character
51:20
But let me tell you what happened when I got caught shoplifting. um i i'd left the shop and i was going down an escalator in in the swan center if you're familiar
51:33
with this part of the country and i noticed there was a police officer a uniformed police officer
51:38
at the bottom of the escalator which was slightly worrying given that i was in a you know a state of
51:44
fleeing the scene of a crime and i subsequently noticed that there was one at the top of it as
51:49
well so they'd kind of waited until i was in a situation where i wouldn't be able to run away
51:54
and that is obviously a sign that the um store detective had contacted the police and the police
52:02
were deployed in numbers i think i mean certainly there were two in the car that took me to the
52:07
police station but i think there were there were more to catch a 14 year old boy stealing records
52:14
from Woolworths. So I'm going to ask shortly what has changed to explain the figures that
52:20
we looking at now And I forgotten the answer I can personally provide to that There is no earthly way now that police would be deployed essentially to catch almost any shoplifters let alone a 14 boy in Kidderminster
52:37
It was Def Leppard, all right? Nicking hysteria by Def Leppard from Woolworths
52:45
That's part of why we're looking at the figures that we're looking at. But even then, and there's something really interesting here
52:52
I hope we can get to it together. even then in that admittedly anecdotal but very real experience the store detective didn't tackle
53:03
me the store detective who was sort of i suppose you'd have to say undercover they weren't in
53:08
uniform i don't know do we still have these people who are just walking around pretending to be
53:12
shopping while looking for people who are shoplifting so he would have then contacted
53:16
the police and the police would have come into town or come from wherever they anyway i don't
53:21
need to paint a picture for you, you can see it all. That wouldn't happen now. Not the
53:28
deployment of the police, I don't believe. And even when I was caught, I wasn't physically
53:35
tackled by the store detective. The reason the police were there and why they'd fenced
53:39
me in on the escalator coming out of the Swan Centre, if you're familiar with that part of the country, was so that I wouldn't be able to get away and they'd be able to
53:47
catch me, do you want to know something quite tragic? I'm in the back of the police car
53:53
right, and my mum, who had come to pick me up, sees this unfolding
54:00
The poor, poor woman. She's hysterical in the front of the Renault 5. I said, could I just tell
54:05
my mum that I've been arrested and you're taking me to the police station, please? And they obviously say
54:11
no, they thought my mum might be my getaway driver, I presume. So
54:15
there's no earthly way they're going to let me just sort of, so the police take me over
54:20
and I tell, it's one of the worst moments of my life. The second worst moment of that day
54:23
I've told you before what the worst moment was, and I might tell you again. So I, um
54:29
I'm in the back of the police car, 14, 15 years old, remember
54:36
And there's a briefcase next to me, and I hit the briefcase quite hard
54:42
and one of the police officers in the front of the car goes, oi and do you know what i said to him i said don't worry i'm not violent
54:50
it's about it's about 30 well i don't know 12 and a half foot of police officer sitting in the
54:59
front of the car and i'm crikey i what was i about 10 stone in my in full kit and clobber
55:06
honestly i'd go oh dear don't worry i'm not violent i said we're not worried son
55:10
that was a bad moment um so that's just a mark of something that has happened in the course of
55:18
almost 30 years right no more than that almost 40 years good lord how did that happen and then on
55:24
tuesday i'm in i'm in marks and spencers in in chiswick and i told you yesterday if you missed
55:31
it i see an old school takedown of a shoplifter and i haven't seen that happen i can't remember
55:38
the last time I saw that happen? Two men tailing, following somebody in the shop
55:49
and then when they tried to leave the shop grabbing him. And this is the thing I really
55:52
want to convey to you. It's a bit like the conversation in the last hour. If you don't live
56:00
with violence regularly if you don't live with physical violence regularly, it's a really
56:06
shocking thing. I mean, it's tragic if it stops being shocking. But that
56:12
kind of, it's like a dial, isn't it? Most of us are living at two or
56:16
three. You never really see, you might get a raised voice. If you're my age, you might
56:20
have got your bottom smacked for being naughty when you were little. But you don't
56:24
ever really, on a regular basis, except, I'm going to say the most middle class
56:28
thing that you've heard today, except on the rugby pitch. You never wrestle, really
56:34
To physically grab another adult, one adult physically grabbing another adult who doesn't want to be grabbed
56:41
is an out-of-the-ordinary thing to witness and encounter. So to see two men physically grabbing another man
56:50
who is resisting furiously, and I mean furiously, and carrying him almost, dragging and carrying him
56:59
to the back of the shop, it made me realise, and I said this to you yesterday
57:03
that every single phone-in I've conducted about, and I think I can speak for everybody else
57:08
although whether they're honest enough to admit it is up to them, every phone-in I've heard and every phone-in I've held
57:14
about shoplifting has been a waste of everybody's time. Because we're talking in theory
57:20
about a situation that can only be solved by putting a significant number of physically robust human beings
57:29
in shops prepared to endanger themselves physically by grabbing people who are prepared to hurt them
57:38
But don't worry, I'm not violent. And that's it, in many ways
57:45
So, there aren't police officers anymore. And if they're in the area
57:52
they're not going to come for a shoplifting event. you've got shop workers
57:59
and you can sit there until you see it you can think well why doesn't somebody do something
58:03
I remember seeing a woman actually in Marks & Spencer's in Chiswick about two or three years ago
58:08
I think I told you at the time who was berating a shop assistant
58:12
because she had witnessed somebody shoplifting and she was essentially saying well why don't you do something about it
58:17
they just walked out with a basket and I was on her side
58:21
to my shame I remember I didn't join in I'm not weird
58:26
But I remember thinking, yeah, why didn't you do something? Because it's an affront, right, if you're paying for your groceries
58:31
to see someone waltz out of the shop not paying for them. And so this woman, and I'm not having a swing at her
58:37
because as I said, I was on her side. But she's berating an ordinary shop assistant
58:43
by which I mean somebody who is not specific security. Why didn't you do something about it
58:49
And they're sort of trying to mollify her and say, well, it happens all the time. Well, if it happens all the time, it's all the more reason to do something
58:54
Why don't you do something about it? A shop assistant on minimum wage or thereabouts
59:00
why on earth would you run up to a fist and headbutt it? Or put yourself in a situation where you could get seriously, seriously hurt
59:09
So, the number of shoplifting offences has risen by 133% in the past five years
59:19
Some of the reasons why we have now touched upon some of the reasons why we will touch upon moving forward you get and to be honest i was surprised
59:33
that this figure was so high just shy of 20 percent of offenses resulted in a charge there
59:40
are however huge variations between the 43 police forces and indeed it is here in london where the
59:47
figure is lowest, less than 7% of cases recorded in the relevant period ended in a charge down from
59:55
the beginning of that period, down from 8.64% to 7%. And we heard in the last hour from a brilliant caller who talked of necessity to steal
1:00:08
If you don't steal, you can't eat. I mean, that will be part of the answer to the question I'm asking
1:00:13
but I don't know how big a part it will honestly be. Addicts stealing to feed their habit, endangering themselves and others
1:00:21
Are you going to run up and rugby tackle somebody who is so desperate to get away
1:00:25
I'm not. who is because i'll tell you it's an extraordinary thing i find my bite in thinking we used to see it
1:00:35
quite often i certainly remember seeing it a couple of times as a kid someone trying to
1:00:40
nick from a shop getting collared and caught and dragged to the back room
1:00:44
so the figure the size of the figure the extraordinary number the 133 percent in the
1:00:54
past five years. I'm just going to hit you over the head with that a couple of times. All right
1:01:00
It's a five year window. And it's a it's a more than doubling. It's a 133% increase. That's what
1:01:09
I want to zone in on. The last five years have seen a 133% increase. And I want to know why
1:01:18
in your view. If you've got expertise, great. If you haven't, welcome to my club
1:01:26
My expertise is witnessing a sort of... Is it a citizen's arrest
1:01:31
I don't even know what you call it. My expertise is being a shoplifter in 1987 or 6
1:01:37
and witnessing some shoplifting earlier this week and being disturbed by the physicality of it
1:01:44
why has this figure rocketed so far in such a relatively short period of time
1:01:53
and can I put a possible thing on the table that is not often on the table during these conversations
1:02:02
how much more should the shops be doing because somebody in that chain of command at Marks and Spencer's
1:02:11
whether on a local level or a national level has decided that they've had enough
1:02:16
Somebody in Marks and Spencer's has decided to put two lads, and all fair play to them
1:02:21
put two lads on the shop floor who are not going to let him pass
1:02:26
You shall not pass, they didn't say. And that is new to me
1:02:31
It's certainly new to the woman who was outside the same shop three years ago berating a female shop assistant for not stopping
1:02:36
someone who'd ran out with a basket full of smoked salmon. Why has this number gone at half
1:02:42
Because I wonder whether, particularly after Theresa May's genius moves in cutting police
1:02:50
I wonder, I mean, the stupidest thing I've heard about the police this week was from
1:02:54
Kemi Badenoch, actually, who thinks that if speed cameras are catching people speeding
1:03:00
then they could somehow be better deployed at catching criminals. I don't know what she thinks speed cameras do
1:03:06
I don't know whether she thinks speed cameras have got legs or that speed cameras, so the police shouldn't be worrying about people speeding
1:03:11
they should be catching criminals. The speeders are caught by cameras, can we? Bade or not
1:03:16
Tell me how a camera is going to catch a thief going at 74 on the M25
1:03:22
How's that camera going to be redeployed into thief-taking? I don't think she was even picked up on this
1:03:27
I read it in the newspaper the next day and I thought, am I the only one who knows that speed cameras can't catch thieves
1:03:34
Especially not if they are actually cemented into the ground. I suppose if you had one on wheels
1:03:39
and it was some sort of like drone type creation. It could just go around the place trying to photograph criminals
1:03:45
and then what? Just like a robotic voice would come out of the camera and go
1:03:49
Halt! I am Robocop! Kemi Badernaut says I have to arrest you
1:03:54
Please don't run away because if you do, I mean, if you go up some stairs, I'm doomed, I'm finished
1:03:59
I can't even follow you. But no, Kemi Badernaut's adamant. We've got to stop fining people for speeding
1:04:05
who've been caught by cameras because the police, who have no involvement in that process whatsoever
1:04:10
could be better deployed catching criminals. But hey-ho, if you're a Tory politician in a certain context
1:04:15
you're not even going to get picked up on that kind of claptrap. But shoplifting can be stopped
1:04:22
Because I saw it being stopped earlier this week. The question is, why is it not stopped more
1:04:26
Why is this so much more, so much more prevalent and commonplace now
1:04:32
And why has it happened so much in the last five years? Hit the numbers now, you will get through
1:04:38
0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3 is the number you need. Because I don't really think there's any other way to fix it
1:04:46
than for Marks and Spencers and other shops to pay more money to trained people
1:04:53
to put themselves at risk by collaring the shop. There is nothing else anybody can do about this
1:04:58
Is there? Which means it's their fault. It means they're just factoring it in
1:05:03
Which isn't true because this week they've been complaining about the failure of the government and the police
1:05:08
to get a grip on shoplifting. How can the government and the police get a grip on shoplifting
1:05:14
0345 6060 973 is the number that you need. It is 1121. Hit those numbers now. You will get through
1:05:21
James O'Brien on LBC. It's 1123. Some of you really have been listening to this programme for too long
1:05:28
although you have made a mistake, actually, on this one with your memories of my past life
1:05:34
it's because I have a very finite pool of anecdotes. It's possible you've heard the
1:05:38
I got caught shoplifting from war. It might have been 1987 looking at where, so I could have been sort of
1:05:43
I still have been 15, but a little bit later in the year. James, you forgot to mention the time
1:05:48
you followed that fellow down the high street with a suitcase full of stolen jeans when you worked in Topman
1:05:53
How dare you? I never worked in Topman. It was River Island
1:05:57
And again, it's actually pertinent because the manager told me to follow him
1:06:02
and said that bloke's just nicked a load of jeans i was 18 years old but fresh out of public school
1:06:09
very wet behind the ears and um well you know i used to play fly half i i look after myself in a
1:06:15
ruckus and i was not very good at fighting and so the manager who didn't like me i can't think why
1:06:20
uh sent me out worcester high street following a bloke who was clearly a professional shoplifter
1:06:26
who had put he believed six pairs of levi's into into a suitcase and whether he had a magic
1:06:31
suitcase or not, I don't know, because he knew I was following him. He knew I'd come out of the shop
1:06:35
There was a clue. I still had my badge on. And just outside, was it
1:06:39
Viking Burger? On Worcester High Street? He turned around and opened the suitcase and went, look, I haven't
1:06:45
got any jeans. I haven't got anything like this. But what if he had decided to have a swing at me
1:06:49
With his suitcase? I wasn't being paid anything. I was on 100 quid a week, I think, if memory serves
1:06:55
I'm not going to go up to somebody and run the risk of getting smashed around the head with a suitcase. And of course, if you are
1:07:01
If you are a bit braver than me, like Walker Smith, who was a shop assistant at a branch of Waitrose in Clapham Junction
1:07:06
you can get fired. This was reported while I was on holiday
1:07:10
A Waitrose employee of 17 years has described his devastation after being sacked for stopping a shoplifter
1:07:16
who had ransacked a display of Lindt gold bunny Easter eggs. There's often a little bit more to these stories than headlines convey
1:07:24
but it appears that his offence was to throw a piece of chocolate bunny in frustration towards some shopping trolleys Which means of course that it could have hit a customer And he said he wasn aiming it at the shoplifter but he got fired after 17 years
1:07:39
So what would you do? Why is it rocketing? 03456060973. Dan's been in touch to say, it's unrelated, James, but if you do want to give us a new story, tell us about the Tai Chi incident
1:07:50
I'm not telling you about that. I'm not ready. It's still too raw
1:07:54
It's one of the worst things that's ever happened to me. I'm not telling you about it
1:07:58
It's why I'm doing yoga. Yoga's great. I'm not telling you what happened when I started Tai Chi, all right
1:08:03
Not until I'm a lot more comfortable with my yoga. It is 26 after 11
1:08:09
Amber's in Leeds. Amber, what's going on? Hi, good morning, James. Hello, Amber
1:08:14
So I live by a Marks and Spencer's stop in what is classed as a fairly affluent area
1:08:22
Yes. It has an endemic problem with shoplifting. And one of the issues that we've experienced
1:08:32
is that the people that are shoplifting from the store come into our gardens to sort out their loot
1:08:38
Oh, my days. That's no fun. It really isn't, especially when, if you accidentally..
1:08:45
Oh, no! They've got to! could you resurrect Amber's phone line please
1:08:53
if you want to continue the conversation of course if you want to contribute yourself
1:08:56
03456060973 is the number that you need we are looking at the question of
1:09:02
not just the massive increase in the incidence of these moments the 133% increase
1:09:10
but also of course the fact that it's taken place in just five years
1:09:15
in a mere five year window Something's gone a bit wrong with our phone lines, I'm told
1:09:20
Which is fine, because I could tell you the Tai Chi story, couldn't I? I'm not telling you the Tai Chi story
1:09:25
I've told you the river. Oh, no. Why did I use up all my shoplifting-related anecdotes
1:09:30
while the phone lines were working? And now the phone lines are not working
1:09:34
I've got no shoplifting-related anecdotes to share. It's absolutely outrageous. I'm not telling you the Tai Chi story
1:09:40
Let's see if Amber is there, although it's not my fault, or indeed anybody's fault. The engineering department in this building
1:09:45
are by far the hardest-working human beings. apart from Keith. Amber, are you there
1:09:51
I am. Oh, she's there. Well, let's see if it lasts. So we were in your garden. They were in your garden
1:09:55
divvying up the loot. That's correct, yeah. We've been threatened on numerous occasions
1:10:02
In one instance, I was injured by one of them. Oh, I'm sorry. And I've reported it to the company
1:10:11
who essentially said, nothing to see here. We can't get involved, or share any information about the security arrangements
1:10:21
And I think, for me, part of the issue is the opportunity
1:10:26
because these people are going in knowing full well that nothing's going to happen
1:10:32
Do you know that football clubs have to pay for their own policing, I think
1:10:37
Wow. I don't believe that. On match days, they do. Because I'm just thinking, because it's stuck in my mind for some reason
1:10:45
when just before I went away, Marks & Spencer's hit out at the failure
1:10:50
one of their senior honchos. Yes. I think sent a letter complaining that the government and the police
1:10:55
were not doing enough to stop shoplifting. And, I mean, what I saw earlier this week
1:11:01
was Marks & Spencer's employees stopping a shoplifter. Yeah, yeah. And that's probably the only way to fix it, no
1:11:07
I think there is certainly some truth in that. Whilst the staff in the store are fantastic, they're great
1:11:14
they are worried about their own personal safety. So I asked the company why they couldn't provide a security guard
1:11:24
And just nothing. They're not interested in either the resident safety or the safety of the staff
1:11:32
And so it is, I mean, we can't speculate unduly on what the motivation may be
1:11:38
but we can speculate duly in that there's a level that is just shrinkage
1:11:43
we used to call it when I worked in retail. It is just a sort of acceptable
1:11:47
cost, if you like, and then there's clearly a level at which it becomes unacceptable, and I
1:11:51
suspect that we're dancing around that level now, and the question of what is going to be
1:11:55
done about it is not easily answered by just shouting at the government or blaming the police
1:12:01
It's going to have to involve spending some of the profits that these
1:12:05
shops make on stopping the theft. And then I wonder about, I worry
1:12:11
a bit about the last hour of the conversation, and whether or not the reason why the one in Chiswick is getting
1:12:15
this kind of service is because it's in quite a salubrious area and if it was
1:12:19
um, not that you have Marks and Spencers necessarily in the less
1:12:23
salubrious parts of the country but if it wasn't such a middle class
1:12:27
enclave it wouldn't be such a priority I genuinely don't know but the idea
1:12:31
that it can all be sorted by the police and the uh, and the
1:12:35
government seems to me to just be close to daft actually half past eleven is the time, I think the
1:12:41
phone lines are alright now but typically we'll be talking to Natasha Clark after this and hitting the phones again
1:12:45
hopefully at 11.45 and then if there's no phone lines for Mystery Hour what are we going to do
1:12:51
I don't think even I could do an hour of Mystery Hour without, I mean I could talk about Donald Trump
1:12:55
for an hour or Brexit but I don't think I could do a sort of one man
1:12:59
Mystery Hour, I could get the game out couldn't I I could just ask the questions and provide the answers myself
1:13:03
I think we can all agree that we don't want that to happen. Here's Dominic Ellis
1:13:07
with the headlines. James O'Brien on LBC. Another story which Yvonne has sent me that is, I think, pertinent to this
1:13:14
And it's only from 2023. It's not like decades ago. A security guard has been jailed for six years
1:13:19
for fatally injuring a shoplifter after chasing him from a branch of Marks & Spencer
1:13:25
This was at Reading Crown Court in 2023. And, I mean, the events seem to have unfolded
1:13:32
in that the shoplifter and his accomplice, the accomplice kind of hit the security guard from behind
1:13:39
This is what the judge said. you were attacked from behind by the accomplice, causing no significant injuries
1:13:44
Mr. Page, the man that died, continued on his way. You dealt him a blow that was quite forceful
1:13:51
And so, you know, that meant that the two lads I saw on Tuesday
1:13:55
were also needed to be conscious of not being too robust, not being too violent
1:14:02
So the shoplifter can punch you as a security guard, but you can't punch them back
1:14:06
and that I suppose is how it should be but goodness me it makes it a little bit rich
1:14:13
for the highly paid executives of Marks and Spencer's to demand that somebody does something about this
1:14:19
doesn't it? I don't know, anyway we'll get back to that later because Natasha Clarke is here, she has been obnobbing
1:14:25
she has, she has been obnobbing with the Prime Minister so she has, how did you get on
1:14:30
what's it like in Downing Street? I've never been oh so cool, it's really cool yeah and I got a really nice picture
1:14:35
which I shouldn't have taken of Larry the cat he's snoozing on the bit where you have to
1:14:39
hand in your phone when you go in there because they don't want obviously anyone listening to you
1:14:42
conversations or anything and he's sitting on this big sort of oak
1:14:47
wood paneled sort of area where you will have to put your phones in
1:14:50
to hide them away and he's sitting on this big like stack of folders and bless him
1:14:54
he so sweet I don think he unfortunately got long left for this world he very old that That concludes Natasha Clarke report on her visit to Downing Street earlier today That fantastic Natasha We see you next week for PMQs
1:15:06
Yes, but no, he did have some other things to say. He's had a number of social media firms. Meow! No, the Prime Minister. Oh, sorry. Sorry
1:15:14
Sorry, slight change of tone there. Yeah, the Prime Minister has been having social media
1:15:18
firms in today to Downing Street. He wants them to do more to tackle harmful content on social
1:15:23
media we know that the government have put out this consultation on all the things that they
1:15:27
want to do um he's just had a round table with with all of these bosses he's he's had them in
1:15:32
um he's writing to ceos including elon musk including mark zuckerberg to tell them what
1:15:38
he wants them to do and to ask them what they are doing to help keep children safe um here was him
1:15:43
speaking earlier this morning to those social media bosses and giving yet another hint that a
1:15:47
ban on social media is forthcoming. The evidence is mounting and the status quo simply cannot be
1:15:54
allowed to stand. And it's clear to me that parents aren't asking us for tweaks at the edges
1:16:02
They're asking us whether a system that clearly isn't working for children should be allowed to
1:16:08
continue at all. So that's where they're going with their argument, with their thoughts. And
1:16:14
obviously companies have to grip this and work with us to do better by British children and to
1:16:21
demonstrate credibly and quickly how these products can be made appropriate for children
1:16:26
because frankly if they can't it becomes increasingly difficult to argue that these
1:16:33
platforms should be part of childhood at all. Why were you conducting the interview in the bathroom
1:16:39
This is not my footage, it's the pool footage. He was speaking in front of a very echoey room
1:16:44
It's quite echoey in Downing Street. They need some more carpets in there, James. But I did speak to him after that roundtable
1:16:50
where the audio is much, much better. He told me it's not a question of if they will act
1:16:54
but when and how. We do want platform providers to change. This is not a question of whether there's going to be something done
1:17:02
We are going to act. And the question now is, what exactly is that
1:17:07
And what's the timescale around it? We took powers earlier in Parliament to make sure we can act very quickly
1:17:13
So this won't be like the online safety app, which took years. This is going to be much quicker than that
1:17:18
I've just had a roundtable with all the key providers and been very clear with them
1:17:22
that we want to know what they're doing now and what they are going to be doing
1:17:27
And I'm writing now to all of the CEOs to ask them to provide me with assurance
1:17:33
of what they are doing already and what else they're going to do
1:17:37
but also being clear at the round table and in the letter that we're not a government that's going to sit back here
1:17:43
We're going to act and therefore this has to be done. So, James, I do think it is a matter of when the government decides to ban social media for under-16s
1:17:53
And obviously this is part of this wider piece of work that they're doing. It's not just going to be a wide ban
1:17:59
It's going to be action on curfews. It's going to be action on algorithms
1:18:03
They're going to do things to stop incessant scrolling. And autoplay videos was something that the Prime Minister mentioned as well
1:18:09
He doesn't think that it's right, for example, that if you're a child and you're on social media
1:18:13
you can just infinitely scroll and scroll and scroll. And it's videos to just play without you essentially instructing them to do so
1:18:22
But not everybody is happy. Obviously, the Prime Minister's talking very tough today. We saw that vote in the House of Commons last night
1:18:28
MPs are voting it down at the moment. That all-out ban. We spoke earlier today on LBC to Ellen Room
1:18:35
Her son, Jules, died aged 14. She's campaigning for a change in the law
1:18:42
She speaks very powerfully about the case to act now. She's very frustrated that the prime minister isn't acting faster
1:18:49
Convenient timing, isn't it? They weren't going to vote yesterday. We knew that
1:18:53
And then today, you know, it's lined up. There's a meeting with all the tech bosses
1:18:58
Just convenient publicity stunt, quite frankly. I mean, how many times do you have to keep talking about the subject
1:19:02
I mean, it goes on and on and on about a consultation and all the things that they keep saying
1:19:06
well, we need to look at doing more, actually do something. I just get so frustrated with this continuous talk of consultations and things like delaying the hours that a child can be on the side
1:19:17
They can still see harm within that time. I just get so frustrated. We need to step up and actually take some leadership and protect the children that are on the platforms
1:19:25
And I think, to be fair to the Prime Minister, there are countries around the world, including Australia
1:19:30
who have found it quite hard to implement this ban. And I think, in fairness, this consultation is looking at those loopholes
1:19:36
to figure out exactly how it can be done properly. There are lots of criticisms
1:19:40
The NSPCC, the Molly Rose Foundation, do not support an all-out ban
1:19:45
They say that we need to look at those loopholes to see how we can close it further
1:19:50
I mean, James, I remember when I was a kid, I always got around the computer parental controls
1:19:55
that my parents put on my computer. And I think that kids are very savvy these days
1:19:59
and they will manage to find a way to, you know, lie about their age or change the settings on their social media
1:20:07
If they are as addictive as we've been told and we have been led to believe
1:20:11
children are going to be attempted to find a way around this. Of course they are. And, I mean, it's a little bit confusing
1:20:16
I have nothing but sympathy for the situation that Ellen Rune finds herself in
1:20:20
and, indeed, the other parents that were at. Number 10, yesterday. Of course, they want this fixing yesterday
1:20:26
not tomorrow and certainly not a week next Monday. But why is he..
1:20:32
So he's urging social media giants to do more while knowing that they won't do anything unless they have to
1:20:38
It's going to take legislation to fix this. It's not that Elon Musk isn't going to suddenly develop a conscience
1:20:42
and decide that he wants to look after children's welfare. In fairness, some social media companies have been very forthcoming
1:20:48
and I speak of TikTok actually on this case. They have already put in a number of different sort of features, let's say
1:20:56
to their social media accounts for children. So if you're a parent, you can control partly your child's TikTok account
1:21:02
You can put curfews on when they have to stop using the app. You can put limits on how long they can stay on there for
1:21:08
So it's fair to say, and I asked him this question, I said, do you think that social media companies are taking this seriously enough
1:21:13
And he said, I think they're starting to. So I think they are waking up. And partly because of the noise being made by campaigners like Ellen Room and others
1:21:21
Just a quick word on last night's vote. What was that about? Why did MPs vote again spanning under 16 from social media
1:21:26
Yeah, so I think because basically the Labour Party has said we're dealing with this, we're going to look at the consultation, we will come back later
1:21:31
So it was like a sort of private members, not a private member, but it wasn't government. So it's Lord Nash, he's the former skills minister
1:21:37
He is trying to amend the Children and Wellbeing and Schools Bill
1:21:40
which is going through the Commons now. Basically, he just thinks that we've got no time to waste
1:21:44
that we shouldn't really be waiting until the outcome of this consultation. We've seen lots of evidence about the harms that social media is causing
1:21:51
and he is calling for the government to basically to act now. the government and you can you see this from keir starmer right he is a consultations guy
1:21:57
he is not just going to jump into something without seeing that evidence first and doing
1:22:01
the groundwork for it and i think that is what he's doing i do think he will act on social media
1:22:05
i did ask him uh do we expect something by the summer can you commit to that time frame he wasn't
1:22:10
able to to say that but i do think we will be hearing from him as soon as that consultation
1:22:14
closes and i wouldn't be surprised if we do see a social media ban by the end of the year
1:22:18
okay um that's interesting thank you did you ask me about anything else or was it just uh
1:22:22
Just that was it. Just on rules. Yeah just on social media rules Didn ask him how Larry was doing but that was the question I did really want to ask But it feels a bit mean to just be like hi is Larry the cat okay Yes I suppose it does
1:22:35
Natasha Clarke live on LBC with me, having spent the morning with Sir Keir Starmer at number 10 at Downing Street
1:22:41
As you heard earlier today, that insistence that tech giants do something probably does deserve a little bit of the criticism Ellen Room deployed
1:22:49
although governments have to tell the public what they're up to because most of them aren't going to do anything unless they are compelled to do so
1:22:55
as we kind of discovered while discussing these issues on this programme over the years
1:22:59
Thank you, Natasha. I suppose, I don't know if it's a clarification, quite a few of you pointing out that you are not prevented from defending yourself
1:23:08
if a shoplifter is violent, if he punches you and you punch him back
1:23:12
That's a rather different situation from the one that I described a few moments before Natasha started talking
1:23:19
where a gentleman, a security guard, got jailed for six years for fatally injuring a shoplifter
1:23:24
after chasing him from a branch of Marks and Spencer. So if you chase someone down the street and clatter them
1:23:30
you're going to be in a very different legal jeopardy than you would be if it's a sort of exchange of blows
1:23:36
while trying to contain somebody. But it highlights just how difficult it is
1:23:41
I hope I didn't sound stupid. um well i know i'm confident i didn't sound stupid because if i sounded stupid to you it's only
1:23:49
because you are unlucky enough to live regularly in the presence of violence people who do not
1:23:55
encounter physical violence in in the in the rough in the wild as it were on a regular basis will be
1:24:00
deeply disturbed by it um and that's why i sort of found myself a little shocked at realizing and
1:24:07
remembering how difficult it is, physically difficult it is, to stop a shoplifter. That
1:24:14
for me, is the biggest reason why it has rocketed. More and more people have realised
1:24:19
they have become more and more desperate, perhaps, but generally speaking, the realisation that there's
1:24:24
not a great deal that they will or can do in most shops is probably the biggest driver of this
1:24:30
criminality, of this behaviour. So the question of who can stop it, well, that's the one we'll
1:24:36
continue to address after this. James O'Brien on LBC. Would you like a missing word round? We haven't done
1:24:42
a missing word round for a while because like all features on this programme, their regular regularity depends entirely on
1:24:48
my memory, which is essentially like Swiss cheese, but I've remembered today. End of the line
1:24:54
for Escobar's renegade blank or blanks or blank blanks if you prefer
1:25:01
End of the line for Escobar's renegade blank blanks. I'll share that with you shortly
1:25:08
I haven't got an unhinged headline for you but I have got a brilliant headline
1:25:12
obviously we don't have any audio for brilliant headlines so what I'll do is I'll play the unhinged headline one
1:25:19
or rather Keith will and I will cunningly say the word brilliant over the top of Emily Maitlis saying the word unhinged
1:25:26
no that's misinformation I'll say brilliant in the style of the bloke
1:25:30
that does the unhinged headline sting are we ready? yes we are
1:25:34
brilliant headline yeah did that work not at all what not even close too fast i'll do it again
1:25:42
go on keith when you're ready brilliant headline that was good so the guardian did this today it's
1:25:50
a story about a poor soul who was on holiday in brazil and got scammed 1500 quid for a kebab
1:25:55
i kid you not um it's the latest in a spate of brazen beachside swindles three words there that
1:26:02
only ever appear in newspaper articles. Isn't that fantastic? Spate, brazen and swindle
1:26:07
When was the last time you heard someone use the word swindle in normal conversation? Or indeed the word spate
1:26:11
Oh, there's been a spate of frogs in my garden. A spate of brazen beachside swindles
1:26:18
And what they do, obviously, they use the click and pay thing, you know, the touch to pay thing
1:26:22
And you don't know what the number is. He bought a kebab. They charged him 1,500 quid
1:26:26
But the sub-editor at The Guardian, this is superb. so that the second bit of the headline says britain in rio skewered by 1500 pound kebab con
1:26:37
that's a pretty good play on the word skewered right because you say skewered kebab skewered
1:26:42
but listen to this the top line on this headline pitter bill to swallow
1:26:49
that's absolute genius thank you very much for doing that keith you're absolutely right
1:26:57
Pitter Bill to Swallow That's one of the best headlines I've ever seen
1:27:01
It's so clever When it struck them It must have been like a lightbulb going off
1:27:07
Pitter Bill Pitter Bill to Swallow I love that headline It's brilliant
1:27:13
That's probably the first and last episode of Brilliant Headline See if you can get the answer to the missing word round
1:27:20
End of the line for Escobar's Renegade Blank blanks Back to the phones
1:27:25
Colin's in Ashford Colin, shoplifting, what's going on? Hi, James. First time caller, so I'm a little bit nervous
1:27:32
It's only me. It's only me, Colin. You're very welcome. So I've been working in retail for the best part of 30 years
1:27:40
So this is a subject that resonates with me quite closely. So we experience it every day
1:27:47
For the last 18 years, I've been working in a supermarket, so it's a daily occurrence for me
1:27:52
seeing people coming in and helping themselves to stuff and just walking out with bagfles at times
1:27:58
I personally think that a lot of it's down to money. It comes down to things like cost of living
1:28:05
That fuels people's inability to be able to afford to live, so they come in and buy, you know, steal basics
1:28:11
Then your next level up is you've got your addicts that come in
1:28:15
and they want to steal stuff for a quick fix or a quick sale. And then on top of that, you've got your organised gangs that come in
1:28:23
and they're coming in and stealing in bulk. And they're obviously servicing a market somewhere
1:28:29
They're selling it on. I mean, there are stories about car boot sales
1:28:33
containing stuff that looks deeply suspect and people stealing to order. And even a sort of, you know
1:28:39
like the sort of criminal equivalent of the Avon lady going door to door in some parts of town
1:28:44
and offering people things that they've nicked in large quantities earlier in the day
1:28:49
So you're right to identify those three constituencies. why do we think it has rocketed
1:28:54
because in many ways they've always existed so why has it gone so mad
1:28:59
over the last five years and does that tally with your personal experience Cole? Yeah it does and I think
1:29:04
largely it's down to the cost of living crisis it's all fuelled by people
1:29:10
not being able to in many cases not being able to afford to live
1:29:14
and it's a choice between do I eat tonight or don't I eat tonight or that kind of thing
1:29:21
Of course it is, because the addict figure probably hasn't gone up or down much
1:29:25
It certainly wouldn't have gone up exponentially over the last five years, unless I've missed something quite significant
1:29:31
But, of course, people who would never steal anything in their lives, but who are really on their uppers
1:29:36
might, the more on their uppers there are, become more susceptible to buying something that somebody else has stolen
1:29:41
for a fraction of the price that they'd have to pay in the shop. So that explains an increase as well
1:29:46
Exactly. And it's also like the cost of the stuff. The supermarket prices have gone up
1:29:49
We all know that. We've all experienced that. And if you can buy some butter Lurpak from other brands that are available
1:29:57
if you can buy some Lurpak from other brands, someone in the pub for £3 that retails at £7 in the supermarket
1:30:03
you're going to buy it in the pub. Yeah, of course you are. And that is what happens
1:30:07
I mean, it's a big part of it. How do you stop it then? I mean, I'm right, aren't I
1:30:12
The only way you stop it is by getting physical with people in the shop on a regular basis
1:30:18
So that is it. You know, that is the only way that it can be stopped at the door
1:30:22
is, you know, the amount of legislation and sort of personal safety that you have to put in place
1:30:29
and shoplifters know that they can kind of get away with it
1:30:33
if they make enough noise, if they make a scene, that, you know, people are going to back off
1:30:38
In the shops, you've got to remember that, you know, a lot of people that work in retail, you know, it's minimum wage for a lot of people
1:30:43
And, you know, are you going to put yourself in harm's way? I'd rather come home to my family at the end of a shift
1:30:48
I'd rather you did, personally, as a customer. Much rather. And put myself in a position where, you know
1:30:54
I could potentially end up in hospital for the sake of tin of beans
1:30:58
I mean, you haven't told us where you work, so I can ask you this question, but you don't have to answer it
1:31:02
What is the sort of guidance from above? What is the company policy in your experience
1:31:08
It's personal safety first. You never put yourself in harm's way. The company won't allow anyone to put themselves in harm's way
1:31:18
And we're told to, if we see it, there's certain people that work within the business
1:31:23
that are trained to handle it, upper management and various kind of departments
1:31:27
that come in to support in those spaces. But, you know, your general shop floor work
1:31:34
you have to, you know, it's all about putting no risk to yourself
1:31:38
or anyone else. Yeah, and I don't think anybody listening to this would want you to put
1:31:43
well, if they do want you to put themselves in danger, then you just say to them, well, after you, after you, I'm not paid to protect the stock
1:31:50
I'm paid to look after the customers. Exactly. And that's what you're there to do
1:31:56
I think that's a really important point that you make, because it's a bit lazy and needy
1:32:00
and I have a horrible feeling, I might have been a bit guilty of it myself in the past, subconsciously, if not out loud
1:32:05
of just thinking, why don't they do more? Why doesn't Colin rugby tackle that gentleman
1:32:09
legging it up Ashford High Street? And the answer is, why the fudge should he, you know
1:32:14
So whose job is it? Right, Mark Suspense's executive says, it's the government and the police
1:32:19
and you sort of think, okay. Maybe they could get all those cameras that Kemi Badenoch is crossed with
1:32:23
to stop all the shoplifters. They could get all the cameras that are cemented
1:32:28
into the ground on roads and motorways that she thinks are a distraction
1:32:32
from proper policing. She could get all them to start tackling shoplifters
1:32:36
Take care, Colin. A sparkling debut. I look forward to your second call. Steve's in Paisley. Steve, what made you pick up the phone
1:32:42
Hi, James. Yeah, first-time caller, but yeah, long-time listener, big fan of the show
1:32:46
Not remotely nervous. I think people should say that more. First-time caller, James, not remotely nervous
1:32:51
It's only you. maybe my voice belies that fact but hey yeah so what I was just saying
1:32:59
to a researcher was that so my mum she actually worked up until retirement for MNS
1:33:04
and this was down in Swindon and so a few years ago
1:33:08
and they were the policy at the time so they didn't have any security or anything
1:33:12
like that at all but they always had shot lifters and they were basically
1:33:16
told the staff were told that they had to confront them themselves to try and prevent
1:33:20
lost to the company. And my mum being like a five foot two very small lady
1:33:29
she wasn't exactly, didn't have the stature to stand up to these people
1:33:34
although she very much did just because she's stubborn in the best of ways
1:33:40
I would say. Yeah, exactly. Also, justice. She doesn't like the idea of people taking the mickey
1:33:45
and walking away with stuff they haven't paid for. It's not fair on everybody else
1:33:49
yeah exactly and um the thing that happened though was that kate and my siblings we're all
1:33:54
telling her not to and just not to get involved and one time unfortunately there was a shoplifter
1:34:00
she stood up to and she got punched very hard in the face and fell to the floor and luckily she
1:34:06
was completely well aside from some severe bruising she was completely fine but um yeah but i bet she
1:34:11
wasn't though i mean it's going to have affected her as well isn't it as well as the physical side
1:34:16
of things. Yeah, I mean, it was from that point that she decided just not to get involved
1:34:20
which, I mean, I think is the best solution, really, for retail workers
1:34:24
because, well, they're not trained or paid enough to do it sort of thing. So, so, I mean
1:34:28
there is really only one route here that's coming out. I mean
1:34:32
certainly you could have a little bit more interaction with the police
1:34:36
but they're not exactly sitting around twiddling their thumbs all day, are they, at the moment
1:34:40
The police service. The government, what can the government do? Just put up posters
1:34:44
saying don't shoplift. The only way you're going to do this is to adopt the approach that football clubs
1:34:49
were compelled to adopt and pay a huge, well, pay a large proportion
1:34:54
of the costs of policing a project from which they profit. Yeah, exactly
1:35:00
And, I mean, I think with supermarkets, it does, you know, the government can legislate all they like
1:35:06
but until the supermarkets, you know, I feel like they just need to hire
1:35:09
private security teams that are actually trained and specialized in this. and I don't mean, you know, because there's some supermarkets
1:35:16
security and you probably wouldn't trust them to run a 100 metre sprint sort of thing
1:35:22
No, I know what you mean, but there is no, yeah, so
1:35:26
I think we've done more on how we're going to fix it which is quite straightforward than we have on
1:35:30
necessarily why it's rocketed so much but maybe it's the same thing
1:35:33
it's chicken and egg, more and more people whether they are suffering
1:35:38
more or not, financially and economically more and more people with a propensity to steal or to buy stolen goods
1:35:46
realising how relatively easy it is to steal. And that explains why it goes up
1:35:52
and it will continue to go up until the other end of that conversation kicks in, which is what you do to stop it, to which there is only one thing
1:36:00
Well, with backup, so you need to stop it in the shop itself, and that would ordinarily also involve the police getting involved
1:36:07
in the pick-up and arrest process afterwards. Anyway, enough of that. It's Mystery Hour after this
1:36:13
James O'Brien on LBC. Is it? Well, already, four minutes after 12 on a Thursday
1:36:18
time for your weekly opportunity to achieve the sort of satisfaction not ordinarily available anywhere else on your radio dial
1:36:24
Yes, I know you don't have a radio dial anymore. Please don't at me to tell me that you have a radio
1:36:29
I told you yesterday, but it's very frustrating when I go off on tangents
1:36:34
In fact, I started yesterday's show on a tangent, from a tangent and went immediately to a tangent
1:36:39
but I use radio dial as a figure of speech if I drop the word dial it wouldn't feel the same
1:36:44
the sort of satisfaction not ordinarily available anywhere else on your radio
1:36:48
it would actually sound fine wouldn't it, should we do that Keith
1:36:52
should we drop dial? you might be listening on the app I suppose
1:36:56
not available anywhere else the sort of satisfaction not available anywhere else
1:37:00
well that's just not true though is it because you know I can think of mildly more satisfying things
1:37:05
than listening to Mystery Hour but they're not on the radio Anyway, that's it really, that's as far as the introduction goes
1:37:13
0345 6060 973 is the number that you need if you want to join in
1:37:18
If you're not familiar with this feature, where the hell have you been
1:37:22
What do you think I do this for, my own amusement? I was away last week I give you that But it kind of like the radio equivalent of notes and queries Someone rings in with a question someone else rings in with an answer except it much funnier than that and we usually get the answer
1:37:37
much more quickly than you would if you were writing to a website or an old-fashioned newspaper
1:37:41
My favourite contribution of the week wins the Mystery Hour game. There are now two Mystery Hour games, and I mean that
1:37:47
It's not two versions of the Mystery Hour game, there are two Mystery Hour games
1:37:51
There is the Mystery Hour board game and the Mystery Hour travel edition. game. A tin of tin
1:37:57
And that they are, I mean, the best way to describe, or to prove the fact that they're different, is that
1:38:02
many people have bought both, and are utterly delighted with both of them
1:38:07
That's not an opinion, it's counting. But my favourite contribution of the week, we'll
1:38:11
win one, okay? Terms and conditions are at lbc.co.uk, because that's a proper
1:38:16
grown-up radio competition, that is, apparently. If you want to find out more about the game itself, it's got its
1:38:22
own website if you just go to mysteryhour.co.uk. Games plural. You can find out more there
1:38:28
I shall solve the mystery of the missing word round. Quite a few of you got this, which probably means you've seen the story, although you may have worked it out for yourself
1:38:36
End of the line for Escobar's renegade blank blanks. The answer is, would you believe
1:38:41
cocaine hippos. Do not text me to say, is that a sequel to Cocaine Bear, James? I made that joke
1:38:48
yesterday when we discussed doing this on the program keith made it today because he wasn't
1:38:52
party to yesterday's conversation it is a very obvious joke and no cocaine hippos is not yet a
1:39:01
sequel to the rather splendid cinematic entertainment cocaine bear thank you that does exactly what it
1:39:08
says on the tin that film i can attest um so it's an incredible story pablo escobar
1:39:14
the drug lord, got some hippos, right? Sounds like the beginning of a joke, this
1:39:19
It's not. He got four hippos because he was so rich, he didn't know what to spend his money on
1:39:23
So he woke up one morning, old Pablo Escobar, and he thought, oh, God, I want to buy some stuff
1:39:27
but I've got everything. I've got that, I've got yachts, I've got Bentleys
1:39:32
I've got all the star bars a man can eat. What else can I buy
1:39:36
I know, he said, I'll buy some hippos. He bought four hippos, one male hippo, three female hippos
1:39:41
after he got taken out by the cops in 1993 they they kind of just went free
1:39:48
and started breeding guess how many there are now actually seriously guess so 1993 four hippos go wild
1:39:58
30 years later 33 years later guess how many hippos there are now
1:40:04
over 200 they reckon about 200 hippos just roaming around columbia without so much as
1:40:11
I'll buy you or leave. And the announcement this week is that they're going to take him out
1:40:15
How many kilos of grass do you... God, this is like its own self-containment. And there was me thinking that I wouldn't be able to do a whole mystery hour on my own
1:40:21
if the phones weren't working. 50 kilos of grass is the answer. So how many kilos of grass do you think a hippo gets through in a day
1:40:26
50. 50 kilos. They're very hungry hippos. 50 kilos of grass in a year
1:40:32
They also, I think, are quite bad for the native manatees and river turtles
1:40:37
because they compete for food and habitat. and if you're competing with a hippo, you're losing, aren't you
1:40:43
You're competing with a hippopotamus for food or habitat or anything, really
1:40:48
except, I don't know, something that you need quite small fingers to pick up. But generally speaking, if you're competing with a hippopotamus
1:40:53
for anything except cocktail sticks, you're going to lose. You're not going to win that battle
1:40:59
Shall we just start Misty Hour now? Yeah, I think we probably should
1:41:03
There are two phone lines free, 0345 6060973 is the number that you need
1:41:09
That's it, really. If you don't know what it's all about, just listen. You'll soon work it out
1:41:13
And if you hear somebody else ask a question to which you do know the answer, then you know what to do
1:41:19
Give us a call. Melissa is in Edinburgh. Melissa, question or answer? Question, please, James
1:41:24
Carry on, Melissa. I've always wondered, James, why you always ask the first person
1:41:29
whether it's a question or an answer. Have you ever had an answer? I don't like to be presumptuous
1:41:35
This is the short answer. my question is why do cats like to sit on mats or mat shaped things or little small
1:41:45
kind of areas as all the places they could go why do they always go there we don't really have we've
1:41:51
got lots of cats but not a lot of carpet in our house do do they sit on mats and things even if
1:41:56
there's carpet around i can't remember yes yes so it's not what it's not a question of being warmer
1:42:01
than the tiles or the or the floorboards no no and even even when it's you know clearly uncomfortable
1:42:06
where they might be sitting. So, for example, I've got kids and we've got Lego and Duplo
1:42:10
and all that kind of thing. And one of our cats, there was like an A4 piece of paper
1:42:15
on top of the Duplo. Really? And she still went and sat on that area
1:42:20
because some kind of compulsion makes her feel that she needs to sit there
1:42:23
So it doesn't even need to be textile. It can just be something small and self-contained
1:42:29
Yeah. They would rather sit on it. Yeah. And it's always been a mystery as to why they feel compelled to do that
1:42:36
Yeah, I quite like that. I mean, everybody who's got cats will recognise this pretty much, I reckon
1:42:41
My dog does it as well, actually. She prefers... If I'm sitting on the sofa and my jumper is on the sofa
1:42:47
I've left my coat on the sofa, the dog will curl up on the coat or the jumper on the sofa
1:42:51
That might be a warm thing, because it's sort of a tiny bit of wrapping around her
1:42:55
and a tiny bit cosier. But a cat on a mat in a hat where it's sat..
1:43:02
Is your cat fat? that doesn't make sense it's not for reasons of warmth or anything like that
1:43:10
okay you're on I mean maybe it's some sort of evolution linked to safety and stuff like that
1:43:17
thank you Melissa 11 minutes after 12 is the time you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:43:24
where Mystery Hour is now underway I should write that down shouldn't I Cats, Mats, Melissa
1:43:29
there we go Talat is in Harrow Talat question or answer Hey James, it's TILAK
1:43:36
It's a question What did I say? You said TILAK TILAK I said
1:43:42
TILAK, T-I-L-A-K T-I-L-A-K, I didn't even get close mate You've got a name with five letters in it
1:43:50
and I got two of them wrong I'm sorry about that On the other hand, I got it 60% right
1:43:54
Yes, there you go, always positive Carry on TILAK So I was lucky enough to go on my honeymoon
1:44:01
a few weeks ago and my wife and I checked in our luggage at our departure airport, both at the same time
1:44:06
And then when we got to our destination, my luggage came out first. And I had to wait for quite some time
1:44:12
before my wife's luggage came out. It came out near the end. And I was thinking, well, what happens in between checking my luggage in
1:44:18
both at the same time, and then getting it at complete different times at the destination airport
1:44:24
I'm trying to think if it's obvious. I just sometimes take a moment to cogitate
1:44:28
whether it could be obvious. Were they roughly the same size? your pieces of luggage
1:44:33
Exactly the same piece of luggage, exactly the same size, the weight's ever so slightly different
1:44:38
but it went at the same time. No, it's not so... I mean, I don't know
1:44:42
If this happens to everybody, then it's a big mystery, but it's not impossible
1:44:46
that they're loading up a trolley and you're at the top of one bit
1:44:51
and then she's at the bottom of another bit. And so then when they unloading the trolley they chuck yours on and then they chuck all the ones that are on top of hers on before they get to hers again Oh look at that I done some physics Do you understand what I mean
1:45:06
I understand. I mean, if there's someone out there that works on the luggage line or maybe can verify your..
1:45:12
How do you know I haven't? Well, I would have told you many, many, many times, wouldn't I
1:45:19
Even if I'd only done it for a fortnight in 1986, like my career as a builder
1:45:23
Yes, I did. We know that. So, yeah, OK, how can two items of luggage of similar size
1:45:28
deposited at exactly the same time end up so far apart on the carousel at the end of the journey
1:45:35
Exactly that. 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need. 1213 is the time
1:45:41
I have two phone lines free. I don't like having free phone lines on Mystery Hour. I don't really like having free phone lines ever
1:45:46
But on Mystery Hour, it feels like a personal affront sometimes. So if you've tried to get through and failed, try again
1:45:52
If you've tried to get through and succeeded and not being put through for selection
1:45:56
don't try again, because you just clog it up for everybody else. Thank you, Tillak
1:46:02
Most definitely not Talat. Johnny's in Manchester. Johnny, question or answer? I have a question
1:46:08
Carry on. So, when they get a new... ...or sort of senior people..
1:46:15
Oh, your phone line's gone a bit weird. I don't know why. Try again. Start again. Is it
1:46:19
Yeah. When they get a new Pope or Cardinals or sort of senior members of the Catholic Church
1:46:26
and they moved to the Vatican? Yes. Do they have to go through normal immigration procedures
1:46:31
Do they have to get like a... like that? Or is it... Well, you went again
1:46:35
There's some missing words. This is like a sort of weird puzzle. Did you say visa? Yeah, any kind of work visa or immigration procedures
1:46:42
Is this part of the decision-making process for you? Would this affect your decision
1:46:47
whether or not you're going to put in for one of these gigs or not? I mean, I wasn't considering it, but, you know..
1:46:53
I mean, if it gets me an EU passport back, I'd consider it. That's not a bad idea
1:46:56
Well, the Vatican is a country, you know. Yeah. So, I mean, they can have whatever rules they want, I presume
1:47:05
Yeah. So if you're the Pope and you live in America, it's a really good question, this
1:47:10
Well, I mean, because you haven't got freedom of movement, have you? So if you became Pope and you were from..
1:47:14
Well, sure, because they have the Euro and they're technically part of... No, no, no, because he's American, so there's no freedom of movement
1:47:21
If he was Polish, like John Paul II, then he'd just have freedom of movement
1:47:25
I can go wherever I want. The previous one was Argentinian. Presumably, they've got to have some kind of..
1:47:29
So what is the... Yeah, what's the deal? I mean, is the Pope the head of state in the Vatican
1:47:35
Yes. Well, I mean, there's your answer. But, I mean, the Cardinals aren't
1:47:39
No, that's also true. So what would you do? Do you need... What are the immigration requirements
1:47:44
if you're a Catholic, a senior Catholic cleric who is not from the European Union
1:47:50
Do we even know whether the Vatican is in the European Union or not? I think it's not technically, because it doesn't qualify as a theocracy
1:47:59
because EU members have to be democracies. Is that right? Yeah. The Pope's elected
1:48:05
That's what the smoke's for. It does have... It is the only country that's not an EU member that can produce its own euro coins
1:48:12
Is that right? You know a lot about this. I'm surprised you don't know the answer to your own question
1:48:16
If you're a cardinal and you're from Birmingham, and I met a card
1:48:21
Have you ever met a cardinal, Johnny? Hmm? Have you ever met a cardinal
1:48:26
I don't think so. Not unless he was in disguise. I have. I met Cardinal Basil Hume
1:48:34
You don't sound very impressed. Or possibly the line went down. It did wobble a little bit, yes
1:48:40
I didn't kiss his ring. That would have been weird, but it is a tradition in the Catholic Church
1:48:44
I find out for you. So if you are from Birmingham and you are appointed cardinal
1:48:49
and therefore you have to move to Italy in the first instance
1:48:53
and the Vatican City more pertinently. Do you need any visas? What are the workpaces
1:48:57
I mean, who's going to know this? I'll tell you what, if you ring in and you're a cardinal, you can have a Ray Liotta with knobs on
1:49:02
Thank you, Johnny. Does the Pope need a visa? Or indeed other cardinals to work in countries
1:49:09
Does it be diplomatic status maybe? I don't know. I'd love to know now. And not just because I'm Catholic
1:49:13
but because I'm curious. James O'Brien on LBC. It is 12.18. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:49:21
Why do cats like Matt? I love the idea, particularly if you're one of the people
1:49:25
that's discovered this show in the United States of America in recent weeks, in which case you are most welcome
1:49:29
and thank you for all the kind words that you say. But if you're tuning in looking for some coruscating ysis
1:49:35
of the international situation, and you just heard me say, why do cats like Matt
1:49:40
Do not adjust your dial. This is a very different hour of the week
1:49:44
Out of the 15 hours that we spend together, this is the silly one. or at least the silliest, and it's always silly
1:49:51
Why do cats like mats? And it doesn't involve warmth. They will sit on a piece of paper, a square piece of paper
1:50:00
rather than on an empty floor. How can your luggage, when it's checked in at the same time
1:50:06
end up so far apart? And does the Pope need a visa, or indeed his cardinals
1:50:12
Do they need visas to work in the Vatican City? If you're suddenly plucked from the middle of Argentina
1:50:17
or Chicago and taken an appointed pope, you know, in other lines of work
1:50:23
you'd have to get employment permissions and visas and things. Do they need to? I want to know the answer to that
1:50:29
Matthew's in Wimbledon. Matthew, question or answer? Question, please, James. Carry on
1:50:34
So, why is the bottom buttonhole on men's dress shirts always horizontal
1:50:39
when the rest are vertical? What do you mean by a dress shirt
1:50:43
You mean a fancy pants dinner jacket? Yeah, you know, the kind of thing. you'd wear a formal office attire or at a wedding
1:50:50
The kind of thing you'd button up down the middle. I don't like it when there are menswear questions
1:50:57
that I don't know the answer to, because that's my path not taken
1:51:01
That was my career that would have been if I hadn't got into journalism
1:51:05
Well, I was hardly expecting you to just come out with it. Well, I'm just examining in my head
1:51:11
whether you're 100% right, because one possible answer is that back in the day
1:51:16
you would have worn studs for the upper buttonholes, but you wouldn't have worn studs all the way down
1:51:24
So the only one with the horizontal buttonhole would be the part of the shirt that was tucked into your trousers
1:51:31
That makes sense. Well, it makes sense in terms of accuracy, but not explanation
1:51:36
I mean, why would it make any difference if the one tucked into your trousers was horizontal or vertical
1:51:41
Because in daily use, it's sort of just irritating. I mean, men button up their shirts without looking
1:51:48
and you go from top to bottom without looking flawlessly, and then suddenly you reach the bottom button
1:51:53
and it's all different. It irritates me. Yeah. It irritates me now
1:52:01
Yeah. Well, I'm pleased, I'm pleased. Because you have the flat bit on a good shirt
1:52:06
I mean, it's the days of this being kind of fairly de rigueur and long behind us
1:52:11
but you have a sort of flat, starchy bit on a dress shirt
1:52:16
and then you have more buttons beneath that. And there may only be one button, but no, this isn't going to wash, is it
1:52:21
Because it doesn't explain why... Is it horizontal All right you on Yeah why is the bottom button on a dress shirt horizontal when all the others are vertical 0 I mean God I can see the faces of the men Matthew that would have been able to answer this question in a heartbeat 30 years ago
1:52:35
when I was strutting my stuff on Regent Street. But I don't know that any of them are with us anymore
1:52:40
Someone... We still have a decent tradition, don't we? Someone will know this. I might have to phone up my mates at Macangus and Wainwright in the city
1:52:50
some of the finest tailors you could ever hope to meet. I bet they'd know. Right, you're on
1:52:55
22 minutes after 12 is the time. Jennifer is in Torquay. Jennifer, question or answer
1:52:59
It's a question, please, James. Carry on, Jennifer. Okay, so my husband and I, we like to go out walking
1:53:06
Oh, yes. And he likes to walk roadside, just to make sure I'm on the inside
1:53:10
Isn't that gallant? Yes. But we want to know, so if we're next to a river and a road
1:53:16
which side should he stand? This is one of my favourite questions ever
1:53:23
I mean, some of the biggest shysters that I ever came across in my media career
1:53:29
were etiquette experts. We'd ring them up. They were making it up as they went to love
1:53:34
Well, of course, you must put the cream on before the... You must raise your little finger in the air when you're drinking tea
1:53:41
But obviously there are etiquette codes, aren't there, that are established, for example, as I'm sure your husband does
1:53:48
You, when you're seated in a restaurant, you should be facing the restaurant, shouldn't you
1:53:52
you should be able to see who is coming and going, because it's a more interesting place to sit
1:53:59
and the man should be sitting with his back to the restaurant. Yeah, that always happens
1:54:03
And, of course, ladies first, going through the door. I don't observe that first one with Mrs. O'Brien
1:54:10
because I always like to know where the exits are when I'm in a restaurant
1:54:14
like Jack Reacher. I like to sit wherever, you know, in case I get caught
1:54:19
in case some Smirsch operatives come in, or some bad guys are there
1:54:23
I need to be able... But anyway, I digress slightly. So you're walking down the road
1:54:27
Yeah. Down a path. There's a road to your right and a river to your left
1:54:32
Yeah. In order to acquit his chivalrous duties, where should your husband be standing
1:54:42
To stop you, prevent you falling into the road or prevent you falling into the river
1:54:46
Yeah. I think it might be up to you this one. What are you more frightened of
1:54:50
falling into a road or falling into a river? A road, probably
1:54:54
Yeah, I think that is probably what it's going to come down to. But if there is official etiquette guidance on this, Jennifer
1:55:00
we will find it for you. Thank you. Thank you. What's your husband's name
1:55:04
Kurt. Kurt. Yeah. Very gentlemanly. Give him my compliments for his excellent, chivalrous, gentlemanly conduct
1:55:13
24 minutes after that. I don't know why. I was slightly surprised that he was called Kurt
1:55:17
But anyway, there we are. Surrey is in Watford. Sorry, question or answer
1:55:22
Question, please, James. Yes? The question is, and I'm not nervous. I've been listening to you for so long
1:55:32
but I can't believe I got through. My question is... Maybe you should be nervous
1:55:37
Go on. My question is, why is it you never see yourself as a reflection in your dreams
1:55:44
What? How do you know? Just you don't. You don't know about anybody else
1:55:50
I'm very self-conscious about myself, so I always wonder what I look like in my dream
1:55:57
Yeah. Really? You catch yourself in a dream wondering what you look like
1:56:03
I feel like I'm mentally thinking, what kind of state am I in
1:56:07
Really? Yeah, I've never come across in my dream a mirror or glass or reflection
1:56:15
The opportunity to check. Gosh. Yeah. Well, I mean, I could just be you
1:56:20
but it seems unlikely, doesn't it? Have you heard that track on Ray's new album about, um..
1:56:25
I'm thinking about being really self-conscious. I Hate the Way I Look Today by Ray
1:56:30
That sounds like my anthem on my stage. It's a beautiful song. I think she's magnificent, Ray
1:56:35
But that's a... Just so bizarrely, I was listening to it this morning and as soon as you just said that
1:56:39
the song came back to me a little bit in my mind. That idea that you need to check out how you look all the time
1:56:44
and you can't do it in a dream. You can't... So it's the question, why are there no mirrors in dreams
1:56:50
Yeah, just why can't you see yourself in a reflection in your dreams
1:56:56
I love it. Okay. I mean, if it's true, beyond you, then it is a phenomenon that we should examine
1:57:02
Thank you, Suri. Did it live up to your expectations, your debut on the programme? Oh, it did
1:57:08
I caught you with Gary Lineker and it was one of the best nights of my life
1:57:12
Oh, what a lovely thing to say. Thank you for making my day. Well, thank you for making mine, actually, Suri
1:57:17
It was a top night, actually. It had very little to do with me. everything to do with Gary
1:57:21
And, of course, I knew there was something. As soon as Jennifer said Kurt, my brain went somewhere
1:57:27
That's why there was a pause, and I thought, why am I paused? And David spotted it
1:57:31
I should have just said, Kurt, Kurt, Kurt, Kurt, Kurt, Kurt. Ah, dear
1:57:37
Thank you, Suri. Max is in Petersfield. Max, question or answer? Question, please, James
1:57:42
Carry on, Max. My question is, how long does it take cobwebs to decompose
1:57:50
It's quite a strange bunch of questions this week, isn't it? I like them
1:57:54
They're all slightly sort of new and left field. Why do you ask this question
1:57:59
I recently took some boards off of the side of a barn on my dad's farmyard
1:58:04
and all of the cobwebs were still there. I estimate them to be at least a couple of decades old
1:58:11
Inside the cavity, as it were. In between, yes. So no wind or rain
1:58:16
A spider can get in, but next to nothing else, insects can get in
1:58:20
but that nothing is going to disturb the cobweb, well, it's... I mean, does it stay there forever, then
1:58:25
Why would it decompose at all? Yes. Human hair doesn't, does it? I don't think
1:58:31
Is that correct? Have I got that right? Or have I misremembered that? I probably misremembered. Of course it does
1:58:35
Otherwise, it'd be coffins full of hair, wouldn't it? Um, all right, yeah
1:58:41
Cobwebs. Well, I mean, we don't know what they're made of. Do we know what they're made of? Uh, I don't know
1:58:46
Well, we say silk, but I don't think it is silk. It's not silk silk. Silk-like secretions
1:58:50
Yes, it is. Silk-like secretions. That was the name of my first band. Thank you, Max
1:58:54
28 minutes after 12 is the time. Questions that need answers. This is the part of the week where we find out whether or not I can read my own writing
1:59:02
What the hell does that say? Oh, cats and mats. Why do cats like to sit on squares
1:59:07
Not for reasons of warmth, but for reasons of something else. Why does luggage that is deposited adjacently end up bags apart
1:59:18
by the time it comes back round on the carousel at the destination airport? Do popes or cardinals need any employment visas or similar
1:59:25
Why does the bottom button on a dress shirt, the bottom button hole, it sounds like a tongue twister, doesn't it
1:59:30
Why does the bottom button hole on a dress shirt, why is it horizontal rather than vertical
1:59:34
like all the other buttonholes on a dress shirt? If you're walking down a path
1:59:39
which is flanked on one side by a road and on the other side by a river
1:59:46
and if, like me and Kurt, you are very courteous what is the correct side to stand
1:59:52
with your lady friend? Should you be shielding her from the danger of falling into the road
1:59:58
or should you be prioritising the danger of her falling into the river
2:00:02
And if you know the answer to that one, I'll give you the money myself. Why don't you ever see mirrors in dreams
2:00:08
I'd like that. I don't know if it's true, but if it is true, it's a brilliant question
2:00:14
And someone's just pointed out that cobwebs are made of cob. That's a very good point, Mick, that you make, actually
2:00:20
but I don't know if it's entirely accurate. I mean, how long does it take them to decompose of their own accord
2:00:25
if there are no meteorological factors in play? like wind blowing it away or rain sort of dissolving it
2:00:33
0345 6060 973 is the number that you need. Matt Hewitt is here now with your headlines
2:00:39
James O'Brien on LBC. Cobb, as any fool know, is just an old-fashioned word for spider
2:00:46
So cobwebs are not made of cobs, they are made by cobs
2:00:50
So the question of how do they disintegrate or decompose remains live
2:00:56
Jake is in Wimbledon. Jake, question or answer? The answer, James. Carry on, Jake
2:01:01
Right, to the luggage arriving at the destination, a big time apart
2:01:06
the possible explanation would be the partner's luggage that contained some item
2:01:13
which was flagged on the X-ray machine. I don't know how you're aware
2:01:17
that every luggage has to go through the exhaustive detection systems before boarding on the plane
2:01:25
So, yeah, if it's flagged, then the machine will send the image to the screener
2:01:32
And the screener takes some time to actually decide whether the item is the prohibited item or not
2:01:37
So they're going to clear the bag or alarm the bag, which will go in the process of the feather to be checked
2:01:43
And how many bags on average will be flagged? Say in every 10 bags, how many get flagged
2:01:52
Around 20 to 25%. Okay. That works then. And so while it's being checked, it's paused while the other bag carries on
2:02:02
That's correct. And so, because I think most people listening are going to have
2:02:07
it's very, very rare that your two bags come out of the carousel right next to each other
2:02:13
Yes, well, they usually try, you know. But they might be quite close, in which case they've gone into the thing
2:02:18
and they've come out at the same time. But if there's a massive gap, then either my theory involving stacks
2:02:25
or your explanation, which sounds a lot more plausible, involving the 20% to 25% of luggage that is paused
2:02:32
and therefore is going to put a big gap. What are your qualifications, Jake? The engineer working on those explosive detection systems in the major airports
2:02:41
Really? Yes. What does that involve? Well, servicing them. I'll pay in mind, they're quite complicated devices
2:02:50
I bet they are. Quite big. You don't see them. Not that they're small ones you put for their hand luggage
2:02:56
it's that they're the big machines. They're really, really big ones. How did you get into that
2:03:03
Well, I was a lecturer in the college, and I was lecturing the students who worked at that airport
2:03:08
and from that to that, I ended up working for the airport. You thought you'd get into it. Wow
2:03:13
How many people are there in your line of work? Well, our team, I'd say 36
2:03:20
Good grief. That's a huge part of behind-the-scenes work at the week
2:03:24
You'd expect something. It is quite big, yes. Fantastic. It's quite important
2:03:28
You're telling me it's quite important. Have a round of applause. That's how important it is, Jake. Thank you, James
2:03:33
Thank you, Jake. Lovely stuff. 12.35 is the time. Great answer. There you go, Tillak
2:03:37
It would appear that your wife was carrying some very dodgy gear on your holiday
2:03:42
Gary's in Bracknell. Gary, question or answer? It's a question, James. Carry on
2:03:46
Okay, I was out walking the dog this morning and there was an Egyptian geese in the tree
2:03:53
Goose. And so my question was, goose. An Egyptian goose, yes. There was Egyptian geese
2:03:57
Goose. There was multiple of them. Well, you said an. In the tree
2:04:01
Yeah, well, you need to either not say an, because you said was as well
2:04:06
which is so there were Egyptian geese or there was an Egyptian goose, innit
2:04:12
Innit, James? Go on, then. Whilst I was walking the dog this morning
2:04:16
there was Egyptian geese in the tree. So my question is, are there any other types of geese that nest in trees
2:04:29
Goose. God, if I haven't annoyed you already, mate, I'm about to annoy you now
2:04:36
Ready? Go on. It's actually a duck. Is it? Yeah, an Egyptian goose is actually technically a duck, not a goose
2:04:44
And don't ask me what the difference is. Oh, someone's going to ring in now. What time is it? I bet someone gets on to say
2:04:48
what's the difference between a duck and a goose? I don't know what the difference between a duck and a goose is
2:04:53
It's possibly the length of their neck, maybe. But the Egyptian goose is technically a duck
2:04:57
because I looked it up. Okay. So, are there any type of waterfowl
2:05:04
Oh, well played. No, that's going to be too wide, isn't it? I don't know. Is it? Do ducks ever live in trees
2:05:09
Have you ever seen a duck in a tree? No idea. No, I haven't either
2:05:14
Okay. So, I mean, maybe they all do. Well, I think they're nesting
2:05:22
Oh, a heron. I've seen a heron's nest in a tree. Is a heron a waterfowl
2:05:29
I don't know. What's the definition of a waterfowl? James, can you do me a huge favour, please
2:05:35
Anything. Stop talking, is it? No, it's not that. My son, he's got..
2:05:44
moderate learning disability, 28 years old and autism, and you are his favourite person in the world
2:05:50
Can you say hello to Jack for me? Oh, I can do more than that. Stay on the line and I'll record a little message for him
2:05:55
or something like that. Brilliant. But in the meantime, in the meantime, live on Mystery Hour on LBC with James O'Brien
2:06:03
Not only am I going to say hello to Jack, but because as far as I'm aware
2:06:07
he's the only Jack who holds me in such high regard. I'm going to give him the highest honour
2:06:13
that Mystery Hour can bestow. So this is for Jack. I'm Ray Liotta
2:06:18
and you listening to James O on LBC If you build it they will come Okay What was that
2:06:29
Fantastic. All right, mate, you take that. No, thank you very much. And give my love to Jack
2:06:33
12.38 is the time. Can we just get Gary's details and I'll just send a little video message to Jack as well
2:06:39
if that's not too tricky. John's in Ilford. John, question or answer
2:06:46
Oh, hello, James. No, it's a question. How can you sound surprised
2:06:50
You phoned a radioist. What? When people do that, I always, oh, hello
2:06:57
Oh, fancy meeting you here. Live on your own radio show. That I just rang
2:07:03
Go on, John. I've never actually spoken to you before. As many times as I've wanted to, but it's very difficult
2:07:09
Right, here we are. You got there in the end. There you go. Now, this does not apply to LBC or probably most radio stations
2:07:17
but when adverts come on, if you're watching, let's say you're listening late at night
2:07:22
and you've got a neighbour that's conscious of your noise, the programme is straightforwardly quiet
2:07:28
not quiet, the volume you want, and then the adverts come on. Yes. And then it blares out
2:07:33
Now, what I want to know is, do the companies that put out programmes on TV
2:07:38
do they not have somebody that controls the sound at the point of transmission
2:07:44
Is there not some way of... surely they must have measures to measure the sound
2:07:49
that they're going to emit to transmitters. Because it really does blare, especially with the adverts
2:07:55
And, of course, sometimes you'll get a busy... Not busy, I should say busy
2:08:01
A war scene, and the volume just goes well up. But you need to have it slightly up
2:08:06
because you want to hear what they're saying. Yeah. Does the neighbour get the ump
2:08:13
Well, no, but I'm aware, Because I have said to her, you know, is everything okay, Anne
2:08:20
And she said, no, your teddy was a bit loud last night. And I said, well, I don't know what to do
2:08:25
I knew it. I knew it. I'm not moaning. I'm actually wanting to know the technicality
2:08:32
Because when you go in TV, you've probably got them on knobs everywhere
2:08:37
You twist it, twist it. There's no way to talk about Keith. Well, you know what I mean
2:08:47
I know, I do. Look, you've got girls. Yes. They grew up, and you want them to sleep at night
2:08:53
and you can't really, you know, watching the TV, and suddenly it blares out
2:08:57
It does as well, especially if you've not got carpets. I'm not even joking
2:09:02
I mentioned that earlier. If you've got floorboards or polished floorboards instead of carpets, the noise from upstairs to downstairs is worse than it is if you've got carpets
2:09:09
No, you're absolutely true. But that's because the sound is absorbed. I don't know if you know that in the spring..
2:09:14
I'll tell you what, John, you're making up for not getting on before, aren't you? Yeah, this is another..
2:09:19
This is a good point, that where my daughter lives, she has a road at the back of her
2:09:23
but in spring, you don't hear the traffic. Well, that's obviously why, isn't it? Because of the leaves
2:09:28
Yeah. But in the winter, God, there's a thorn going on. Anyway, you know what I'm saying
2:09:32
All right. I forgot on what the question was now. Yeah, yeah
2:09:37
So it's audio mixing, isn't it? And I think things are recorded at different levels
2:09:42
so they go out at different levels. But whether or not there's anything they can do about it
2:09:47
I mean, I used to think, I think this question, something similar has come up before. I don't think it's a sort of deliberate attempt
2:09:53
to grab your attention because the adverts are on. Do you see what I mean
2:09:57
It's sort of waking you up. But, I mean, I have heard the phrase advert blasting before
2:10:02
so we want to know why it happens. That's all, John, isn't it? Yeah, they have sound measures
2:10:06
and then they can just control it. And they choose not to. So, well, I'm going to do why does it happen
2:10:12
Yeah. Where it gets so loud. I want to know... No, I know why it happens, and you know why it happens
2:10:17
Why does it happen? Well, because advertising, they want to get... Well, I don't know if that's true, you see
2:10:23
We're doing very engrossed in a film, and you really want to watch it, and you're really interested
2:10:28
All of a sudden, the adverts come on, and you go into the loo to blow your nose
2:10:33
and then you can still hear the telly, but a lot louder. and her upstairs will probably say
2:10:38
Oi. And maybe your wife used to say to you, Girl, can you turn the teddy down, James
2:10:44
Because the baby has just gone off the sleeve. She does, she does. It's still now. I think she'll be in the next room
2:10:49
she gets annoyed when I've got the teddy on. All right, you're on. Thank you very much
2:10:54
Thank you very much. Everything all right? Did you enjoy that? Was it worth the wait? Well, it certainly was
2:10:59
I was quite surprised that I got on so quickly. Well, no, you do on Miss Chapp
2:11:04
Everybody says this. You've just got to be there when the phone line gets free. If it flashes up, it'll be answered in a moment
2:11:09
It's got to be somebody, hasn't it? It's like the lottery. It could be you. It could be you
2:11:13
Anything else you want to get off your chest, John, while I've got you? I'll try
2:11:19
Yeah, this is a trouble. I've had these questions before in the past that I'd love to ask James about that
2:11:24
You never remember them. They're like jokes, aren't they? You can think, oh, that's a good joke. I remember that
2:11:28
I'll tell John that next time I see him. And then we see you and I can't remember the flipping joke
2:11:31
I can never remember the joke. You mind there you go, John
2:11:36
You're having a good day, aren't you? I'm having a good day, John. You stay safe, mate
2:11:40
It's till 43. Chris is in Fulham. Chris, question or answer? It's an answer, James
2:11:45
Carry on, Chris. Probably the least interesting answer, the shirt buttoning. No chance
2:11:50
It's menswear. It's by definition interesting. Yeah, sure. Like most clothing rules, they come from a practical point of view
2:12:01
So the buttonholes, if you think about the function, the weakest point of a buttonhole is the end
2:12:10
Yeah. So the pressure on the chest buttons are sideways, aren't they
2:12:16
Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, if you're like me and you've got a manly chest
2:12:21
not if you've got a sort of pigeon chest like Keith. And then you go down to the belly
2:12:25
The belly is going to be sideways. And then you go down to a shirt that's designed to be tucked into trousers and the pressure is always downwards or upwards
2:12:33
Because you're tucking it in. Exactly. So you're... oh, this is a brilliant answer
2:12:40
So it actually means you less likely to break it If it had a sideways thing on it then in the process of tucking it in it would unpop it would come out
2:12:54
Or even just during wear. Or even tear. The buttonhole would tear
2:12:59
Yeah, that's one of my favourite answers in a long time. Qualifications? Well, 15 years menswear design
2:13:06
30 years in menswear, formal wear design on German Street. Really? Yeah
2:13:12
You're still doing it? No. I've gone into restoration. Are you enjoying yourself
2:13:19
I'm loving it. Hang on, have you gone into restoration or restaurants or are you restoring restaurants? Restaurants! Restaurants
2:13:25
So you said restoration then. I love that, from menswear into... That's it, that's both of my alternative careers. Hospitality and retail, that's what I would have done
2:13:34
With extreme forms of customer service. Yes, exactly. And bizarrely, so is this, when you think about it, Chris
2:13:43
You don't sound convinced. Oh, your customer service? Yeah. Absolutely supreme, James
2:13:49
Yeah, well, there you go. You see, thank you very much, sir. Has been for at least 15 years
2:13:53
Thank you very much, sir. Have a fantastic day. A round of applause for Chris
2:13:58
I love that. I was on commission, eh? It's 12.46. James O'Brien on LBC
2:14:04
It is 12.49. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC, where Mystery Hour continues
2:14:11
I don't think we've got time for a recap. We want to get a few more answers on the board. Oscar is in Godalming
2:14:15
Oscar, question or answer? It's an answer, James. Why don't you say Godalming correctly, not Godalming
2:14:20
which you have done on the past. Oh, you spoiled it then. That was a lovely compliment, and then you spoiled it at the end with a criticism
2:14:26
Oh, well, it's wonderful on the board later. Right, it's regarding the adverts being louder
2:14:31
than the general programmes that you're watching. Yes. You were not too far off in the attention-grabbing thing
2:14:36
I think you dismissed that, but you might actually be too far from the truth. So in terms of the volume, if you were sitting in the control room and you were looking at volume going out
2:14:44
there's this thing called compression, which you would have on your mic as it reaches our ears
2:14:49
various airways, whether it's digital or in the internet. And they would generally stick on most ads
2:14:56
A compressor goes and everything. And what that does is that almost, depending on how harshly you use it
2:15:01
it brings every sound and piece of audio within that clip in the mixing stage to as loud as it almost physically can go
2:15:09
So everything feels like a wall of noise. And this is only really
2:15:13
there was a thing in the 90s, funnily enough, just in music called the Loudness Door War, where when you didn't have to put
2:15:18
og records on vinyl, you suddenly had no headroom as to how loud your music was anymore
2:15:24
So Oasis very much took, if you listen to something like Definitely Maybe from 1994
2:15:30
or What's the Story of Morning Glory, if you listen to other records of that era
2:15:34
they were not mixing them as loud as Oasis were because the people, various other acts
2:15:39
but they realised you could get the headroom a lot louder because you don't have that limitation of a vinyl record
2:15:45
can only hold this much. It's very much the same when it comes to anything digital
2:15:50
There is the complaint that you might have too much volume on everything now because digital can take volume
2:15:56
so why not increase the volume? And more or less, it is an attention getter
2:16:00
If you're watching a drama that was maybe filmed, I don't know, in the 70s or 80s
2:16:05
you are dealing with a sound mix that's very much a sort of thing
2:16:10
where it's like it was done on ogue and therefore it's ups and downs
2:16:13
Oh, wow. So, John, it's more likely to be noticeable if John's watching an older film at night then
2:16:19
Oh, absolutely. If he's watching something like, I don't know, All the President's Men, I don't know what that film takes place
2:16:23
But he did mention war, so he might be watching Bridge on the River Kwai, for example
2:16:28
Exactly, which very much would have been just done on ogue tape and it would have had peaks and troughs
2:16:32
So, if you looked at the frequency of all those sound effects, they'd have peaks and troughs, you know, it'd be like a wave
2:16:38
Whereas if they tried to do that film now, if you looked at it on the waveform
2:16:43
it would just be one big block. That's really interesting. So, I mean, that's a technological explanation
2:16:49
but there is a commercial dimension to it as well, presumably, in that the advert makers want their stuff to be as loud as possible
2:16:54
because then it is more likely to be noticed. Absolutely. So you weren't altogether that off
2:17:00
I think you sort of dismissed that initially. I did, I'm sorry. far from the truth. Unfortunately now, all
2:17:04
adverts are more or less exactly the same volume, really. Does it happen on the radio? Are the adverts louder on here
2:17:10
than they are than I am? I mean, that seems unlikely. Not as much, no, because bear it
2:17:14
in mind, it's all the same delivery method. So if your chap does actually like watching older films
2:17:18
that are sort of, you know, done of a certain era and the recording was og and
2:17:22
the mixing was og and it was only designed to go through small speakers
2:17:26
or even sort of primitive cinema speakers, it won't have been mixed that loudly. Now that
2:17:30
everybody's got, you know, top-end audio and whatever they've got, whether it's their car or their home
2:17:34
or their phone, Bluetooth speaker. It's like, right, we've got that headroom. We'll use all the headroom
2:17:39
Love it. Qualifications? I have actually trained in sound mixing and audio mixing
2:17:45
I've done that for about 20 years, and also I've submitted voiceovers where you have needed to put a compressor on
2:17:50
to be advert-ready. Marvellous stuff. Just excuse me for one moment. Keith, is that all to your satisfaction
2:17:56
Yes, it is. Marvellous. Carry on. Yes, essentially. No, not you. I'm giving you a round of applause
2:18:01
You said lots. Well played. Great stuff. Nice one. Thank you, Oscar
2:18:06
And my apologies to everyone who was correcting me on the fact that it is actually
2:18:09
deliberate. It's deliberate and not deliberate at the same time. That's my story and I'm sticking
2:18:13
to it. Andrew's in Chinkford. Andrew, question or answer? It's an answer
2:18:17
to corroborate on something which was answered earlier on regarding the luggage
2:18:21
Carry on. Okay, it's not as technical as we're led to believe because, believe it or
2:18:27
not what you'll find is when you're loading the luggage onto the airplane it's what they call
2:18:33
visually compartmentalizing and the best way to explain that is have you ever played tetris i know
2:18:39
yeah i have i mean that's the second best way to explain it actually right okay right so for
2:18:45
example if you or someone in your party and you're both checking in a luggage and they're both like
2:18:50
l-shaped yeah it doesn't necessarily mean they're both going to come off at the same time at the
2:18:53
other end because what will then happen as the as as you build the luggage up on the aircraft it
2:19:00
might allow for a box shape or some more of a round got it so we need that in there and that
2:19:05
one will go there and that one will go there yeah so even though you might have two which are about to come on the aircraft at the same time and they both l shapes L will fit in and then you have to wait until it required elsewhere Yeah got it And so it as simple as that believe it or not
2:19:18
Qualifications? I used to work in the industry and I'm a frequent traveller
2:19:22
and I have lost and had damaged luggage several times and that's been explained to me on many occasions as well
2:19:29
Now, there's a little moment in this conversation that many other people would have picked up on, Andrew
2:19:34
What's that? What's that? It was when I said that's the second best way of doing it
2:19:39
Yeah, I was wondering what the first one was. Yeah, but you didn't ask, did you? I didn't want to jump ahead
2:19:44
Fair enough. Do you want to know? I would definitely do. Dry stone walling
2:19:50
Dry stone walling. That's to do with building, isn't it? Yeah, well, it's to dry stone wall. So if you speak to a dry stone waller
2:19:55
they'll have a big box of stones with them, and they're building a wall without any mortar or cement
2:20:00
and it's all about the right size stone fitting into the wall, you see
2:20:04
Ah, yes. So it's a better ogy than Tetris because... I still think it's second to my Tetris ogy
2:20:11
No, because on Tetris, it's all the squares of which the blocks are made up
2:20:16
are of identical size. Yes. Whereas with suitcases, they are all different sizes
2:20:23
Right. I think we're going to need to share an applause there. No, I'm giving it. You can have it all
2:20:27
I just love something about dry stone walling that really tickles me at the moment
2:20:31
I don't know what it is. But this is for you, Andrew. thank you very much
2:20:36
we haven't done the duck or the goose in the tree we haven't done the cobwebs or the mirror
2:20:42
we've done the roads and the buttons we haven't done the pope but we haven't done the cat on the mat
2:20:46
that sat Lewis is in Putney Lewis question or answer answer James cobwebs
2:20:52
oh yes so cobwebs is a biological oh we're going to have to sort that phone light out
2:21:00
we're going to have to get the sound mixer on James is in Hartley in Kent. James, question or answer
2:21:05
It's the answer to the waterfowl question. Do they nest in trees? Marvellous. The answer is yes
2:21:10
Loads do, including Canadian geese if you want to be specific as well. Lots of species. Mallards do as well
2:21:16
Canadian geese will nest everywhere, but mallards will nest. I mean, that needs to be
2:21:20
quite a strong tree for a Canadian goose. Well, yeah, they like the bowl in the middle of it
2:21:24
Yes, exactly. They can build nests in there. Or they'll nick other birds' nests as well. They've been known to nick
2:21:28
osprey nests, nesting those as well. Gosh, really? I saw a sea eagle last week
2:21:34
Do you know what? What? I used to live in Hampshire, and it's very well known for sea eagles
2:21:39
and it's one of the few species of birds I've yet to see in the UK
2:21:43
They're glummin' big, aren't they? They're huge. Well, they call them flying barn doors for a very obvious reason
2:21:48
I didn't know that. So I saw a fledgling as well. Well, not a fledgling. One born last September as well
2:21:52
All right. So it's all three together. I know, I'm just digging in now. I saw all three at the same time
2:21:57
It was absolutely glorious. Oh, that's amazing. I know, it was. It was incredible. Do you want to know the difference between ducks and geese
2:22:02
Can't you be bothered? No, I really want to know. So, basically, it's really straightforward
2:22:05
You were partially right when it's the neck size. So, it's neck and beak size
2:22:10
Geese are herbivores, and they tend to feed on the land. Ducks are omnivores and dabble in the water
2:22:18
And the most basic answer as well is geese honk, ducks quack. Oh, of course they do
2:22:23
And an Egyptian goose is a duck. You are right. Yeah, I'm very impressed with that
2:22:27
Yeah, thanks, man. Getting better all the time. Qualifications? Ex zookeeper for 30 years
2:22:33
That'll do nicely. Round of applause for James, please. This is from Phil
2:22:41
When you said dry stone walling, you sounded just like Brexit hardman Steve Baker
2:22:46
saying fast catamaran sailing, and I burst out laughing. I think I know what you mean
2:22:51
Dry stone walling. Have we got it? Shall we see? Okay, let's just compare
2:22:54
So I go, dry stone walling. only the conservative party can stand for freedom and sort out the problems that we face
2:23:01
what do you want to do if you're not an mp skydiving motorcycling fast catamaran sailing
2:23:07
virginia's in bromley virginia question or answer hi james i've got an answer i think carry on
2:23:14
it's about the lady who found about not seeing herself in her dreams yes i dream an awful a lot
2:23:22
and I often dream that I'm looking at myself in the mirror
2:23:26
and I realise I look completely different. My hair's... Everyone looks distorted, apparently
2:23:31
There's some psychological reason for this. It's our subconscious. Really? I've got short hair and I often dream that I've got long hair
2:23:38
and I'm looking at it and I think, oh, how lovely, I've got long hair and then I wake up thinking I must grow my hair
2:23:42
because it looks really nice longer. I've got longer yet. But I'll also dream that I'm looking myself in the mirror
2:23:47
and my clothes are all wrong. I think that I've got dressed really nicely
2:23:51
and appropriately, and then I realise I've got really ill-fitting clothes on
2:23:56
or part of my underwear is showing or just something embarrassing to make you look awful
2:24:01
I mean, psychologically speaking, that sounds like possibly a degree of insecurity or something like that
2:24:07
You're worried about being embarrassed in public. I'm desperately insecure. There he is, you see. I've just ysed it
2:24:14
I'm a health nurse for 38 years. No wonder I'm insecure. I've tried being a radio presenter
2:24:19
Have you never dreamt you've gone out without your trousers? Uh, yeah, I have, actually
2:24:23
I have. Yeah. Well, you've dreamt, you've gone out without my trousers. Virginia, qualifications, you dream a lot, really
2:24:30
There's not a lot you can say. You know, I'm a mental health nurse with 38 years. I don't know if that's got anything to do with being insecure
2:24:36
Yeah, we'll have a round of applause, anyway. I'll tell you what, Virginia, have a game as well
2:24:41
Do you want a game, a mystery hour game? Oh, wow. There you go. Yeah, yeah, one
2:24:45
Oh, you made my day. There you go. Oh, James, how lovely. My pleasure. Stay on the line
2:24:49
Oh, thank you so much. Well, thank you so much as well. Just tell Eleanor whether you want the board game
2:24:53
or the travel edition. It's in the tin. Or a pair of your trousers. Or a pair of trousers going spare
2:24:58
Yeah, I do have that. I don't have anxiety dreams like I used to have. I used to have exam anxiety dreams every couple of years
2:25:05
Yeah, same. Then I've got my recurring dream of... Recurring nightmare, really, it feels like
2:25:09
in the dream, not in real life, of being married to somebody I don't want to be married to
2:25:14
Oh, dear. Oh, dear. Terrible. It's a phone, isn't it? If you missed any of today's show
2:25:19
you can listen back on our free global player. on Catch Up, download it
2:25:23
wherever you get your apps you can also listen to a range of podcasts
2:25:27
coming up at 4 on LBC, it's Tom Sawbury but now it's time for Sheila Fogarty
2:25:31
James O'Brien on LBC
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