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Thick racists are furious about falling immigration | James O’Brien - The Whole Show
May 22, 2026
This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 21st of May, 2026. 00:00 - Net migration into UK almost halved in 2025, official figures show - Is this going to make any difference whatsoever to the national conversation on immigration 37:23 - UK waters down new Russian oil sanctions as fuel prices rise - Sir Bill Browder, Anti-corruption campaigner 01:15:29 – Family of Brit caught up in flotilla activist abuse slams response from UK Govt - Clare Azzougarh, Daughter of Malcolm Ducker 01:39:25 – Mystery Hour Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #jamesobrien #politics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
It is three minutes after ten, and I think somewhat oddly for a relatively successful media platform at the moment
0:12
this programme has not talked endlessly about immigration for the last, what, 10, 15, 20 years
0:19
I remember the first time that I began to discuss it on LBC, and it was quite an awakening for me
0:25
the kind of people who would ring in to insist they weren't allowed to say what they wanted to say
0:29
about immigration without being called racist so you'd encourage them to say
0:33
what they wanted to say with the promise that you wouldn't call them racist and then they'd say enormously racist things
0:38
and unfortunately that was at the time a fringe and sometimes even for
0:43
I suppose possessors of white privilege it was even sometimes quite a funny
0:48
experience I don't imagine it was very funny if you were listening and the person that
0:53
my callers expressed undiluted hatred for, was you. Although I'm sure they'd follow it up very quickly by saying
1:00
oh, no, no, no, I don't mean you. But it has become, whether you like it or not
1:04
the defining political issue of our age. There is no way that Brexit could have been achieved
1:09
without people who did actually know better harnessing, stapling themselves to the racist rhetoric
1:16
and the hideous bigotry of people like Nigel Farage. I don't, for the record, think that Boris Johnson
1:22
or even Jacob Rees-Mogg are possessed of that hideous bigotry, not themselves, not in pure, unadulterated form
1:29
of the kind that Nigel snorts every night, but the kind of political opportunism of it
1:36
Dominic Cummings was keen to distance himself from the toxicity of Farage's outfit
1:40
but I think that was actually truly cynical because he subsequently demonstrated
1:44
quite a degree of comfort with the bigotries and hatreds that inform the currently most popular party in this country
1:54
And there is no earthly way that everybody minded to vote for them is a hideous racist
2:00
I know that upsets some people. They don't like that observation. But it simply can't be true
2:05
Which means that there is a constituency of people in this country
2:09
who will hear the news today and respond both rationally and positively
2:16
rationally and positively they will learn that net migration has dropped below 200,000 the lowest
2:24
point since the covid pandemic and crucially um it has pretty much halved since last year
2:32
so just before the current government came to power in 2023 these figures were close to a million
2:38
They have now come down by more than 80% to reach 193,000
2:48
Obviously, during the COVID pandemic, when you couldn't get in or out of the country, even if you wanted to, the numbers were absurd
2:56
But these figures are absolutely huge. These drops are unprecedented. They are extraordinary
3:02
They are caused by fewer and fewer people coming to Britain for work
3:06
And what we need to do now is park our concerns about the impact that will have on economic growth
3:11
Because I read something quite clever earlier this morning by one of my favourite contributors to the Blue Sky app
3:19
where I am occasionally to be found. And it was a point about not what is or what, no, not what should be or where logic would take us
3:30
but about what actually is. and it was an observation about people saying
3:37
that when they voted in the Brexit, nobody voted for vote leave to be the actual government
3:43
which, while technically true, I think was sort of evidentially false. People kind of did vote for the key players
3:54
in the Brexit movement to be in charge. It's why David Cameron resigned within 10 minutes
3:59
of that result dropping. And I think immigration is in a very similar place
4:05
Immigration is not the problem everyone thinks it is. It's an evidentially true observation
4:12
It does not cause anything like the problems that people like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon
4:18
and his fellow criminals repeatedly claim. It doesn't cause anything like the problems
4:23
that Nigel Farage and his increasingly hideous coterie of cretins and cronies
4:30
consistently contend. It simply doesn't. You know that. It's a matter of fact
4:35
Somebody born somewhere else commits a hideous crime. It's just hideous. Somebody born here commits a hideous crime
4:41
It's just hideous. Horrible story yesterday in Scotland about a complete failure to investigate
4:47
a house of paedophilic horrors. A complete failure by the authorities. There's a very strong chance you're not aware of it
4:53
because the disgusting human beings that were living in that house and abusing children
4:57
are all white British. so you probably won't even be aware of that story
5:02
or hearing any calls for deep and widespread inquiries into how the hell it could possibly have happened
5:06
under the noses of the authority figures but it doesn't matter whether it's true or not
5:12
because there comes a point where as Roland Smith writes this morning if everybody thinks it is
5:18
then it kind of is and he draws the parallel with people saying
5:22
we are not electing vote leave when those of us who were really paying attention
5:27
kind of realised that everybody thought that we were. Politics, media, voters did think that they were electing the people
5:33
who weren't most responsible for Brexit. There was no earthly way David Cameron could have come out
5:38
after that referendum result and gone, oh, OK, well, I'll now do the will of the people
5:43
and implement the results of the referendum. So, this is going to sound really odd
5:50
I must be in quite a good mood this morning because if I'd got out of bed on the wrong side
5:55
I would have and in fact you could hear the intimation of what would have happened if I'd got out of bed
6:03
on the wrong side. If you were listening to the last 15 minutes or so of Nick's show
6:06
I do this sort of little trail at about quarter to ten and I said immigration has plummeted
6:11
again, who cares? It wasn't technically a rhetorical question but it sounded like one because
6:16
I asked it with a sort of degree of I don't know, depression all my, who cares
6:22
It doesn't matter and that's born of my conviction that this is not good for the country this is not good for the country but people like
6:31
me don't matter but we lost that that game is over explaining that economic growth is contingent
6:37
upon freedom of movement or that if you have a mobile young workforce coming from the largest
6:41
trading block in the history of humanity and you're part of it and they can come and go
6:45
as they please um that these are all positives that battle was lost you know that that is why
6:51
our economy, one of the reasons why our economy remains in the doldrums. It's one of the reasons
6:55
why our immigration figures for a while had to rocket to replace all the people that we told to
7:01
clear off. And of course, people like Boris Johnson were never open or honest with you about that
7:06
All that ever got reported was the numbers. And all the people that were in the party that was
7:10
governing at the time the numbers rocketed have either washed their hands of it completely, or
7:14
the very, very worst of them, the most dishonest, the most disingenuous, the most dissembling have
7:19
across the house and joined the outfit that Farage fronts. That where we are It doesn matter that plummeting immigration is bad for the country fiscally bad economically bad It doesn matter
7:36
The battle is lost. The people who want immigration to come down, and come down far, and come down fast, are in charge
7:47
Not, I mean, just of the government, because Shabana Mahmood's policies go to places that even some Tories would have balked at
7:54
but of the country they are in charge of public discourse. There are books to be written, and I may yet write one of them
8:00
about how and why this happened. In fact, I kind of have already, if you want to have a look at how they broke Britain
8:06
But what you unleash when you allow racism back into the public space
8:10
you can never get back again. You can never re-bottle it simply with argument and rhetoric
8:16
It's visceral. It's primal. It's ancient hatred that is being fanned and flamed and encouraged and fermented
8:25
And some people are very, very good at it. Their name also begins with F, actually, just like fanned and fermented
8:32
And you can't get it back in again. The only way that you can reduce this concern, that you can address this issue, is evidentially
8:41
Which is why I have a very odd question for you this morning. Or at least I have a very normal and obvious question for you this morning
8:48
born of a very odd sensation. One that I may regret by half past ten
8:56
but I'm going to tell you now. I'm going to tell you now. I think it might work
9:04
So, if I'd gone out of bed on the wrong side, I'd be sitting here saying none of it matters
9:10
Because you get a little bit distracted, you get a little bit hypnotised
9:13
by the sort of racists that turned up on the hate march that Stephen Yaxley-Lennon led this weekend
9:18
and you think they represent everybody who's concerned about immigration. This might be my sweet summer child naivety kicking in once again
9:26
but I'd rather be naive than nasty. And people who have been fed an unleavened diet of anti-immigration rhetoric
9:34
which had to happen for Brexit to occur, people who have been fed an unleavened diet
9:39
that genie of bigotry and racism that was let out of the bottle in 2016
9:44
you can't get it back in the bottle. You're going to need a better bottle. And I still believe that my fellow Brit is capable of responding rationally to this news
9:56
Not the first time it happens. Not the first time it happens
10:01
But the trend, the movement. So, I mean, I'll go to my inbox and show you the kind of people who we have allowed to dominate the discourse
10:13
the kind of people that we sometimes think represent all of the people who profess concern about racism
10:22
It's Tamara in Telford territory, this. A wonderful woman that we took a call from a couple of years ago
10:28
when I was attempting to identify the constituency of people who would actually respond to falling immigration numbers
10:36
So here's James, he's not one of those people. He's a nasty racist, and he writes
10:40
veterans on the street and illegal rapists in hotels, vile man. So he not only doesn't care about rapists who are white
10:48
or indeed about veterans on the street, who he has never done anything at all to help
10:52
but he also hates the fact that immigration figures are coming down
10:56
because his camouflage is being stolen. His ability to pretend that he's not a massive racist
11:01
I'm just very concerned about the numbers, is dissolving in front of him, so he's getting cross with me
11:06
He's shooting your friendly neighbourhood messenger. and Farage will be furious as well
11:11
so much so that he will lie even to Nick Robinson of the BBC
11:15
unchallenged and unchecked about why these figures are plummeting, he will lie
11:19
through his nicotine stained teeth about net migration being a result of the number of people leaving when it categorically
11:26
obviously, evidentially and numerically isn't the numbers are coming down, that's why he started
11:31
targeting disabled people and people who are between jobs and children with ADHD
11:37
Where are we going to attack next? We haven't got anything constructive to offer this country. We've just got to give people like James
11:43
the one who texted James O'Brien this morning, about rapists, we've just got to give him something else
11:47
to pretend he's furious about so that he doesn't have to admit that he's a massive, thick racist
11:52
And I refuse to believe that all the people drawn to quotes, concerns, end quotes, about immigration
11:59
are thick racists. It can't be true. It's statistically impossible. My personal calculation would be
12:06
10% of the population is basically decent, inherently and incredibly decent. And I'm going to use the word we
12:14
You can hate me for that if you want. That's fine. We would go to the gallows in defence of a population under the jackboot of the Nazis
12:22
But it's only 10% of the population that would do that. 10% of the population will sign up to the Nazis before the announcement has even finished
12:30
They will be stealing from their Jewish neighbours. they will be reporting their Muslim work colleagues to the authorities
12:38
They will literally, 10% of the population, James being a case in point, my texter this morning
12:42
and I'll get more, I'll keep an eye out for them, they will absolutely love it
12:48
The minute it's announced, the minute the swastika is raised in Trafalgar Square, they will be goose-stepping from here to Greg's and back
12:55
That's not fair on Greg's. Other pastries are available. 10% will go to the gallows to resist it
13:01
10% will sign up. 80% of the population is just going to sort of sit there
13:06
Some of them might sign up. Some of them might develop enthusiasm. Some of them might quietly resist
13:12
but they're not going to risk their lives to do it. Some of them may just keep their heads down and hope that things return to normal
13:17
You can see it happening in the United States of America right now, although that stretches the 10% figure slightly
13:23
and I don't know who the ones are that would resist it by up to the point of going to the gallows
13:27
but here's another one so here's here's um here's ian this is quite interesting as well because
13:34
these people these racists are absolutely um banjaxed by the actual figures because that's
13:42
the thing that they've been given by brexit the ability to pretend that they're not racist they're
13:47
just really concerned about the numbers and i think we're better than that so the argument was
13:56
lost, okay? And immigration coming down was a priority for everybody except the Liberal
14:03
Democrats and the Greens, okay? Everybody, pretty much. So Labour has adopted that, and
14:10
Labour has pledged to bring down the immigration numbers spectacularly, and they are. They
14:18
are. In the 12th months of December 2025, the number of people entering a country, minus
14:24
the number of people who leave stood at about 171,000. A fall of almost 800,000 from where it
14:31
was just three years ago. That's absolutely extraordinary. And for the record, I don't
14:37
think it's over yet. I think it will continue to fall. So, is it going to work? Is it going to work
14:47
Here's another racist. You've made the label racist meaningless, which is what all racists say
14:51
This is Ian getting in touch to prove that he's a racist. You made the label racist meaningless We don care lol I spent my entire life texting radio presenters who just made points that I don care at all about Ian You irredeemable flump It an all record It was forced upon us It not enough They coming
15:07
So you see? He's got it. He's furious. They're coming down. Damn
15:12
All that's left is racism. But I can't be a racist. You've made the label meaningless
15:17
So, ignore people like Ian. Ignore people like James. Ignore your racist uncle, or your Uncle Keith on Facebook
15:24
think about this curious, this unidentified, this almost unknowable constituency of countrymen and women
15:30
who are going to respond positively to the news that immigration is plummeting
15:34
because they have been persuaded, through no fault of their own, look at the effort that's gone into it
15:39
that immigration is a bad thing. And the lower it is, the better. So if it stands at, as it did just three years ago
15:47
944,000, and your emotional calibrator, calibrator your emotional meter your emotional meter responds to a figure of 944 000 by going
15:58
up to eight or nine on the anger scale then by all the laws of logic it should come down to two or
16:04
three when the figure stands at 193 000 unless you're racist like ian and james if you're not
16:11
racist and you're genuinely concerned about the numbers if if 944 000 makes you vote for farage
16:17
then 193,000 should effectively involve you giving your head a bit of a wobble
16:24
and remembering what's best for the country. And I want you to tell me now whether or not it's going to make any difference at all
16:32
Because at 20 minutes past 10, I actually think it is. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life
16:41
I actually think it's going to matter. I refuse to believe that our population is so pig-headed and so poorly served by media
16:49
I derive optimism from what's happened in Hungary, where they managed to control everything
16:53
The same forces that have turned immigration into a toxic issue in this country
16:57
aided and abetted, actually, by money paid directly to them by the Hungarian government under Viktor Orban
17:02
More on that in my next book. But I refuse to believe that this population is so pig-headed and so poorly served by the media and the political class
17:10
that they have become immune to numbers, that they have actually become immune to statistics
17:17
So for every Neanderthal claiming that the figures aren't real or that it's all been manipulated
17:22
for every Neanderthal like that, drawn to a far-right party, I reckon there are ten people that are susceptible to reason
17:29
that are susceptible to statistics, that are susceptible to arithmetic and numbers
17:36
And I hope today you're going to agree with me. But you are, of course, not just welcome, but encouraged not to
17:42
Immigration is plummeting. Is it going to make any difference whatsoever to the national conversation about immigration
17:51
and the fortunes of the government that is delivering these apparently deeply desired numbers
17:56
That's what I want you to tell me. The numbers are coming down at a rate that even..
18:01
I mean, I don't know who would actually dream of it because the racist politicians don't want immigration to come down
18:06
It robs them of their most potent weapon. most members of Labour are uncomfortable with this direction of traffic
18:12
Well, not actually most, but a lot of Labour parliamentarians are uncomfortable with this direction of traffic
18:18
But it is giving the people what they want. If you give the people what they want, will they thank you for it
18:24
When what you're giving them is plummeting immigration. Plummeting. Coming down from just shy of a million to under 200,000 in the space of three years
18:34
Halved in one year. is it going to make a difference? And again, I've said this a few times lately
18:42
we've been getting some amazing calls from people who've never phoned me before
18:46
and so if this is an issue that you are actually animated by, exercised by
18:51
if I've managed to get the question right today and you're sort of thinking do you know what, it's not the kind of thing I normally do
18:56
but I do actually have thoughts on this then I'd really love to hear from you today
19:00
because I don't feel optimistic very often and it's a bit sick to feel optimistic about something
19:07
that you don't actually want or approve of, but I want my country to go back to a place
19:12
where discourse is not dominated by division. And I don't think it can while these numbers are high
19:18
I think we failed. I think we lost. I think we lost
19:24
I don't know whether we could ever have won if we'd done things differently, but we lost. The racists are winning
19:29
But the pieces that we play with, the people that we pursue
19:34
and the people that we want to persuade, they're not racist. So it's the anti-racist versus the racist
19:40
and the racist is winning because the numbers are so high. Is this going to change the picture
19:46
Or not? Hit the numbers now. You will get through. 0345 6060 973
19:53
The numbers are plummeting. Will the toxicity diminish accordingly? James O'Brien on LBC
20:02
25 minutes after 10 and of course the um uh the aren't some of the answers are obvious but it's
20:11
not them i'm thinking about it's not the um the various racists congregating in london at the
20:16
weekend who want to deport all muslims regardless of whether they've won olympic gold medals for
20:20
this country or three times been elected mayor of our capital of course they are insatiable
20:26
their bigotries know no bounds and of course they have made fortunes harvesting the gullibility
20:32
and the idiocy of their followers. And, of course, people will still point at the small boats and shout
20:38
despite the fact that they make up about 5% of the overall numbers
20:42
And, crucially, of course, they exist only because right-wing politicians shut down safe and legal routes
20:48
But we've lost all those arguments. None of that matters. People see a figure like 944,000 people, net migration in 2023
20:57
and they get cross. so are they going to be less cross now that that figure stands at 193 000 and falling malcolm is in
21:07
engelsea brook how delightful malcolm what would you like to say james morning nice to speak to
21:12
you last time we spoke i was in maroon dot engelsea and we talked about pub business rates
21:16
right well this is a bit different it is it is and i'll not be as jokey as i was then um i've got
21:23
I share some of your optimism. It's a weird kind of optimism that something I don't want to happen
21:29
is the lesser of two evils, if you like, because it will deliver something that I do want to happen
21:35
Fair point. I'm thinking one of the advantages of having moved back to Cheshire
21:40
is I'm going to be able to do a bit of active campaigning in Mayfield, which isn't too far away
21:44
Right, don't say anything else, because we're now in Purda. Good God, you can't see it coming from a mile away
21:50
So be careful, we're now in Purda for that by-election. so don't say anything that might involve me getting into trouble, Malcolm
21:56
Carry on. Absolutely, absolutely. But, I mean, the timing, all I was going to say on that one..
22:00
No, no, no, don't say anything. I mean, what do I have to do? Shout? Don't say anything about it, even if it's entirely innocuous
22:05
because I'm paranoid and scared. The last thing I'd like you to do is shout
22:09
Thank you. The two points I was going to make was, first of all, they're going to go
22:15
the right are going to go even harder on the small boats thing. Yes. Because..
22:21
There's not going to be much left. there's not going to be much later. Well, exactly. And you know until I moved recently I was working for an MP in a constituency office and in an area in North Wales with very low immigration figures
22:38
And we had people contacting us who were convinced that not only were more than half of immigrants coming over illegally, but that they were being given mobile phones and put to the top of the local housing list
22:51
and when we were trying to persuade them that that wasn't the case they said but this is what I've been told
22:56
somebody I respect told me in the pub somebody I respect told me in the post office
23:01
somebody who was on the local council was telling me in the street so they're going to go harder on that
23:06
but this has always been true and the years I was doing this job
23:11
before racism was normalised again even encouraged and before immigration was toxified so completely
23:17
those people always existed one of the first calls I took on this programme 100 years ago now, was from a woman who was adamant
23:23
that immigrants were being given shops in South London. Just turn up, tell them you're an immigrant
23:29
and they'll give you the keys to a shop. That was what she believed. Ten shops in a row, they were all going to go to it
23:33
And you still see it now. You still see people filming themselves on building sites
23:37
claiming that they're all going to be given to immigrants. And this is why it's a very bittersweet optimism
23:41
and you may well be chipping away at it. But the context in which those things happen
23:46
has to change when the numbers come down by almost a million. I think for a number of people it does
23:53
Yes. But equally, when you were first taking those calls, some of those people were dismissed by the majority of your listeners as a bit flaky
24:04
The cumulative effect of all this stuff over the last number of years has meant that I think what was, you know, a sort of swivel-eyed fringe has grown to some extent
24:16
And those people, you know, are convinced of the views. and the other route, of course, the right to going, is to say, well, all right, immigration may be coming down
24:25
but it's been far too big for too long. And therefore, the only cure for that is deportation
24:33
You've had Rupert Lowe say there are very few problems in this country that cannot be eased by mass deportation
24:41
And you've got Zia Yusuf saying, well, we're going to build deportation camps
24:46
Obviously not quite clear where they're going to deport people to. in green constituencies, and Farage..
24:53
Sometimes you forget, don't you, just how vile everything has become. No, I know, I know, I know, I know
24:59
Two weeks ago. And Farage himself is not saying that explicitly. But something has to change
25:06
The numbers have to change something, don't they? Yes. Yeah, they will. I mean, obviously, the people who've got nothing else but race baiting
25:14
are going to carry on race baiting. They always have. I think that Yaxley-Lennon is quite a good example
25:19
you know just desperately desperately trying to make money out of racism effectively and and for
25:26
years it was pathetic and ridiculous and then the the tectonic plates shifted international
25:32
organizations figures like elon musk who loves the racism they start pouring money and and and
25:38
and his influence grows but what grows can shrink again and and one of the biggest drivers of growth
25:44
among people who are not vile will be what we used to call legitimate concerns about the numbers
25:50
So if the numbers come down and the conversation doesn't change, then they were all horrible racists all along
25:58
I think that's entirely fair. And to just underpin your optimism a bit
26:03
of course, the Robinson's march in London last weekend, by all accounts, the numbers were down by over 50
26:11
from the last time he tried it. Yes, I don't like to read too much into that
26:16
but it's certainly not portrayable as good news, although one imagines that people were lying about it
26:22
And there it is, Malcolm, very rational, very calm, very coolly addressing my optimism with a very cynical
26:28
well, with a friendly but cynical eye. I can't help who I am
26:32
I believe the best of people until I'm given no choice but to believe the worst of them
26:37
So there are plenty of people I can believe the worst of because they keep showing me who they are
26:41
In Nigel Farage's case, they've been doing it since. their school days according to people who were at school with him and i can't reach the people who
26:46
don't care about that who um profess to care about anti-semitism while intending to vote for a man
26:53
who joked about gas chambers and claimed that hitler was right um while he was still in the
26:57
sixth form according to people in the sixth form with him and who takes five million quid from um
27:02
foreign billionaires without thinking he should tell his supporters or indeed anybody else about
27:08
it, including his colleagues. So I can't reach those people. But I refuse to believe that
27:14
the average British person concerned about immigration will continue to be furiously
27:19
concerned about immigration when immigration plummets. Prove me wrong. 03456060973. Here's Dominic Ellis with the headlines
27:29
James O'Brien on LBC. 35 is the time you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
27:37
where we report the bittersweet news that immigration is falling at a rate of knots
27:42
And we wonder whether the people who definitely aren't racists, but are very concerned about immigration, will now be considerably less concerned
27:50
It's a genuine question. And coming up a little later at this hour, Bill Browder will join us with his view
27:55
one of the most tireless campaigners against Vladimir Putin and in favour of sanctions against the hideous murderous regime
28:03
led by the man that Nigel Farage admires most in the world. I want his take on what has happened with regard to that jet fuel situation
28:12
and the apparent easing of sanctions by the current government. And I have a feeling it won't be very pleasant hearing for the current government
28:20
but let's wait and see. Back to the phones. Holly is in Newcastle
28:24
Holly, what would you like to say? Hiya James, a big fan, dead chuffed to speak to you
28:29
So I'm trying to kind of pull together my thoughts on all of this
28:34
I'm very much like you I've got optimism but I've also got massive
28:39
bouts of optimism fatigue because we've been through this a million times
28:42
It's the hope that gets you Holly, not the despair I know So I keep very very much abreast
28:48
of the American politics for my sins and I used to reckon psychology
28:53
and I feel like a lot of things with the way the political spectrum
28:58
is coming in the whole world at the moment is because of tribalism
29:02
and what's really concerning me about this latest thing is that I feel like the enemy has
29:10
been shifted from the small boats and the immigrants to the left in general
29:14
and what might concern me is that because things aren't fundamentally really getting better
29:20
for the average man on the street, I feel like the animosity is still going to be there
29:24
towards the left in general. Well, there was a lorry driver shouting abuse at Rachel Reeves
29:30
in the... I mean, I can see why it made the news, but goodness me
29:34
it's a mark of a civilisational decline, isn't it, when things like that are greeted
29:38
with enthusiasm by some people in public eye? Yeah, and then it will be
29:43
We've seen it. It's tribalism. It's us versus them. It's differences. It's otherisms. And
29:48
when no right-wing politics is massively spurned by fear. And hate. Fear is generous
29:57
Yoda got it right, didn't he? Anger leads to fear, fear, whatever, whatever, whatever
30:02
but hate is always at the end of the equation. Did you see the footage from the hate march on Sunday
30:07
Yes. Of the woman who was removed from the crowd because she looked like she'd read a book
30:13
Oh, God, no, I didn't see that one. It was quite incredible as a woman in glasses, and other members of the crowd started alerting security
30:20
that she was dodgy because she looked relative... I mean, this is an extraordinary thing to say
30:25
but she looked relatively educated, and you hear a woman shouting in the background, And she looks like a lefty
30:30
So I hate to prove your point with recent events, but I think I just did
30:34
That's what worries me. Yeah, of course. And it's the thing about Donald Trump, what also concerns me, my other point
30:40
was that they'll continue to blame it. They'll say, yeah, but it's what's already happened
30:46
But this is Tamara in Telford territory, isn't it? Of course those people exist
30:51
Of course there are people in a crowd who will take against someone who looks like they've read a book in their life
30:56
Of course you will have Farage desperately trying to pretend that this is not terrible news for the racists
31:02
even though it's bad news for the country. It's good news for people who want the conversation to change
31:06
You just don't know how many of them there are. That's the problem. Of course the rump exists
31:11
They always did. They were ringing me 20 years ago to tell me that immigrants all got given shops and that Hounslow smelt of curry
31:19
I remember the calls as if they were yesterday, but they were always there
31:23
What they've done since Brexit is co-opt millions of other people. And I just wonder whether they now begin to return to a kinder, happier place
31:33
And I hope so. I really hope so. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate, Holly
31:39
Hate leads to suffering. Speaking of which, I have for you, I think, one of the finest examples of what I'm talking about
31:47
which had temporarily slipped my mind, but it's been refreshed by something in the news today
31:51
have we got two Hollies? Has that ever happened? From Holly to Holly, it's not a massively
31:58
common name, we should play Jingle Bells or something like that. Get me an Ivy, will you
32:02
On line three, two Hollies and an Ivy. This one's in Derby
32:06
Holly, from Newcastle to Derby, what would you like to say? Hello, my love
32:09
Hello, Holly. Holly two. Yes, Holly two. I don't think people are going to care. I think the people that care
32:18
about immigration are just racists. and I think... They're not all racist
32:22
They can't be. It's not possible, statistically. You see a figure like
32:25
944,000, it's enormous, it bothers you, doesn't make you a racist. I just, I think there's going to be
32:33
a large portion of people that are just not going to care
32:37
They're going to go, oh well, even if it was ten people coming into the country of
32:41
year, there are going to be a group of people that go, yeah, well we don't want black and brown people in
32:45
this country, we don't want Muslims or Islam screaming Allah, Allah, Allah
32:50
who's Allah? God, babe, that's who Allah is. Like, you're not I don't think it's going to matter to those
32:55
people that go to marches. God, I'm sounding like a I don't know, Pollyanna, aren't I? I keep saying
33:01
that these people have always existed they've just managed to infect lots of
33:05
other people. I believe there is an antidote and unfortunately the antidote is the economic
33:11
well, it involves economic damage we just can't put a number on it
33:15
Holly. There's bound to be one person going, oh, well, that's good news. I don't need to worry about
33:19
immigration anymore. There's definitely going to be. There's definitely going to be
33:23
people that turn around and go, oh, okay, this is great, brilliant, I maybe won't have to follow, but
33:29
I don't think there's going to be a lot. I think there's
33:33
the people that are drawn to people like Nigel Farage and all the other people in the right-wing
33:39
politics, that it's just drawn from racism. It's not drawn from anything else
33:43
It's not drawn from worrying about the country, the state of the economy is like no it's purely racism they don't want black and brown people in
33:49
this country because they think this country has been white and then they will lie because they
33:54
have to lie about about these numbers or they'll claim because figures of people leaving the country
33:59
who were british born um are relatively steady and relatively high uh they'll claim that rather
34:06
than that being evidence of people fleeing the bin fire that they helped to create it's somehow
34:11
evidence of millionaires and entrepreneurs leaving the country, and therefore these are
34:16
not numbers that people who were crying for immigration to come down should actually celebrate
34:22
It's as if they're about to say, if they haven't already, oh yeah, I mean when we said immigration
34:26
had to come down, we didn't mean like that. We didn't mean, because they're all so disingenuous
34:31
so dissembling, and so dishonest. Evidence this. Just look at the net migration numbers. Oh, isn't
34:38
it good net migration is coming down. Do you know why? There's an exodus. There is now an exodus
34:42
Those that are of a situation and a financial position, that they're fortunate enough to have
34:48
the choice, are now fleeing in the country in numbers, actually even bigger
34:52
numbers than we saw back in the late 1970s when the brain drain was at its
34:56
height. It's a simple sum. You take away the people leaving from the people
35:00
coming and you get net migration and the people are coming, the numbers are absolutely
35:06
plummeting the people leaving roughly the same eu nationals you've got about 278 000 um sorry
35:13
non-eu nationals leaving the uk eu nationals about 118 000 brits about 240 000 but the number
35:19
of people coming in um that's falling at a rate of knots and he lied about it that was to nick
35:25
robinson on the bbc i don't know whether the complaints about that have prompted any form
35:29
of apology or correction but he will continue to lie about it because he can't handle the truth
35:33
The truth robs him of his biggest weapon, which is why he started attacking the disabled and people who are out of work
35:42
Because immigration is plummeting. Even he recognises it's going to change his court support
35:47
But I'm not convinced that you agree at this point. We're too battered, aren't we
35:52
We're too cynical, perhaps. We've seen too much evidence of people voting to hurt themselves by hurting others
35:59
Well, there's two types, isn't there? You either vote to hurt others and don't care that it hurts you
36:04
I remember those calls. That was, I'm voting for Brexit even though it's going to make my children poorer
36:09
because we've got to get rid of all the foreigners. So I don't care if it hurts me and mine
36:14
It's going to hurt them over there even more, so I love it. Or you don't realise it's going to hurt you
36:19
You're just so seduced and intoxicated by the idea of hurting them, which is why the economic damage caused by eradicating immigration entirely
36:28
will be a price that everybody has to pay, regardless of whether you're in favour of these policies or not
36:33
And that, as quite a few of you have pointed out to me, is what Labour are doing
36:37
I mean, that is the platform effectively upon which they fought the disastrous council elections
36:42
My optimism, for want of a better word, is built upon the idea that these figures
36:46
will percolate through the population and begin to make a difference. But I could, of course, be wrong
36:52
Speaking of the current government, yesterday's PMQs saw Kemi Baden-Ott tried to make hay out of a reported relaxing of sanctions on Vladimir Putin's Russia
37:04
I said to you at the time I wasn't following entirely the facts
37:08
It looks very, very ugly to me, not least because the EU haven't done it
37:13
But I know a man who will be able to give us absolute chapter and verse on what is going on and what it means
37:19
And I'll be talking to him after this. James O'Brien on LBC
37:23
It is 10 It featured in PMQs yesterday and it features in much of the media today I not lazy of course but sometimes you don have the knowledge or the understanding to dig into every single subject as deeply as you can
37:39
So for me, the fact that Kiev had expressed deep disappointment with the UK after it was announced that we would be easing sanctions on Russian oil and gas
37:48
was enough for me to conclude that this was pretty bad news
37:53
Volodymyr Zelensky saying last night, of course our team has been in contact with the UK today
37:57
The issue of sanctions is always a very sensitive one and there has been much discussion in the media and among politicians
38:04
This as Yvette Cooper and Keir Starmer seek to reassure Ukraine that this temporary import of Russian oil and jet fuel
38:12
was only one element of a tougher overall sanctions package. No civilian in this country, or possibly the world
38:20
has done more to pursue a program of sanctions against Vladimir Putin's regime
38:26
And his name is Bill Browder, the anti-corruption campaigner and head of the Global Magnitsky Justice Campaign
38:32
and also, as you probably know, a good friend of mine. So we turn to him, because he will be across this like few others
38:39
And we begin by asking what your immediate reaction to this news was, Bill
38:43
the same as kiev's reaction which is very negative i mean here you've got a situation which is how
38:51
does russia how does putin afford to continue to fight this war after four years and the answer is
38:58
because of oil and oil products and all the money that comes from that that's where he gets the
39:03
money and so the the logic has been since the very beginning how do we stop him from this invasion we
39:10
take away his money? How do we take away his money? By stopping his sale of oil. And so for the UK
39:16
who in theory is one of the biggest allies of Ukraine, to basically say to the Russians
39:22
oh, it's okay, you can sell your oil now, is the biggest stupidity. It's unimaginable how stupid
39:31
this is. We spent all this money helping Ukraine fight off the Russians, and now we're giving money
39:37
to Putin to continue to kill Ukrainians. It just makes no sense. And I have to wonder what is behind
39:43
this, who made this decision, where the pressure came from, because it just doesn't make sense on
39:49
the surface. Let me be the devil's advocate, if I may. My understanding is that the new legislation
39:56
which does affect a ramping up of broader sanctions and expansion of the sanctions
40:01
program kicked in on tuesday but because of concerns caused by the closure of the strait
40:08
of hormuz and the ongoing war with in iran they've just put a three-month pause on the jet fuel
40:14
and refined diesel element of it as well as the as well as the lng so they've sort of said
40:19
turn the tap off slowly don't don't cut the pipe tonight well let's just look at this and so at the
40:27
moment, Russia produces oil, they sell oil to people who make jet fuel. And so then the question
40:35
is, what happens to that stuff? And when it's under sanctions, it means that Russia just gets
40:41
a lower price. It's not as if they don't sell their stuff. So what happens when you lift sanctions
40:46
it's not as if the supply all of a sudden comes about that you wouldn't have otherwise. It just
40:51
means that Russia gets more money and other people get less money. It's just a redistribution
40:56
of the profit in this chain of oil sales. And so the idea that somehow this is going to lead to getting rid of jet fuel shortages
41:07
is just nonsense. It just means that Russia gets more money. And I'll tell you something else which is interesting
41:12
which is that Vladimir Zelensky is watching all this stuff, and he's getting pretty frustrated because we're all talking about sanctions
41:20
and then not really doing it or doing it halfway or lifting sanctions. And so you know what he's doing about this whole oil business
41:27
He's sending his drones into Russia and blowing up their oil refineries
41:31
And so he's imposing his own sanctions because we are so fickle and half-hearted about doing our sanctions
41:39
And that is having an effect. And Vladimir Putin is now hiding in his bunker and begging for the Ukrainians not to bomb his parades and so on and so forth
41:48
I mean, the licenses last for three months. we could be sitting here in three months time feeling a little bit more sanguine and philosophical
41:55
about things well you know the u.s were the first people to do this whole sanctions removal this is
42:01
what um what happened at the beginning of the iran war scott messon the u.s treasury secretary
42:07
quote temporarily lifted sanctions for one month one month went by and then he temporarily lifted
42:13
sanctions for a second month that second month went by and he just lifted sanctions for a third
42:17
month and so when you when you open up this pandora's box um this is what you end up and i i
42:23
just have to have to think that uh this three-month thing is going to turn into six months and every
42:28
month putin gets more money well we will join you in keeping a very close eye on that particular
42:33
issue i wonder whether you've been on the phone at all in the last 24 hours um you're a knight of
42:38
the realm now so bill you you are a man of influence have you brought your um expertise
42:43
and unhappiness to bear upon the people making these decisions? Well, I have, but it makes more of a difference for me coming on your show
42:50
to express my displeasure than it does with a private phone call. Well, to that point then, for people listening
42:56
I wouldn't force them through the mangle of this particular question, but if they were given a choice between buying refined jet fuel from India
43:05
that has been refined from oil that came out of Russia or cancelling their summer holiday
43:09
some people may be a little bit torn on that. Is that an oversimplistic ysis? It wouldn't happen. It's not as if there's no jet fuel. It's just a question of who gets the money for that jet fuel
43:19
It's not like all of a sudden by lifting the sanctions, you can go on your summer holiday
43:23
By lifting the sanctions just means that Russia can do more bombing and gets more money from it
43:28
And in fact, if the Indians are the ones who are being penalized because the Russian oil then comes in at a higher price
43:35
it's not as if there's no oil or jet fuel available for summer holidays because of this move
43:41
Just to clarify, finally, then, I mean, you are obviously, for clear reasons, in favour of an immediate cessation of this commerce, this business
43:51
But it's not, they're bringing in a ban. They're just pausing it for three months
43:57
It's not as if there was a ban in place previously that is now being lifted. It's an easing of sanctions that were incoming, not an easing of sanctions that were in place
44:05
however you want to describe it however you want to describe it we should be cutting off russia's
44:12
access to money in the world because if we don't then we end up in a situation where we're going
44:17
to have to continue paying for ukrainians more people will die and by the way the russians are
44:22
not just going after ukraine they're busy buzzing there was an incident yesterday where an raf jet
44:29
nearly crashed into a russian military jet over the black sea i mean this is a day by day what i
44:34
would call almost open war with Russia. They are the enemy. They are the adversary. And to do
44:42
anything that's not completely harsh to the Russians is basically leaving ourselves wide
44:48
open to God knows what in the future. Indeed. And I think Lithuanian politicians were evacuated
44:54
yesterday to an underground shelter after a drone violated their country airspace While I have you Bill what the bigger picture sanctions Are we seeing meaningful intervention from Western countries
45:07
I suppose the EU, most obviously. The United States is unlikely to lead the way under the current regime
45:12
Are sanctions having any effect at all on Vladimir Putin's war machine
45:17
Well, I think the sanctions generally are having a big effect on his war machine. I mean, he's suffering. He's been suffering
45:22
But the one big place where he continues to get his money from is oil
45:27
And I was working on a big project for about the last year trying to get sanctions imposed on the eight oil refineries which buy 80% of Russia's oil
45:38
Because if I had succeeded in that, then we would have been in a situation where Russia would have effectively gotten about 75% less money than they would normally get
45:50
and then they would probably be out of business and unable to conduct the war. My work was going very well until the moment that the U.S.-Israel-Iran war started
46:00
And at that moment, oil became a scarce commodity and any thoughts about limiting anything about the oil was thrown out the window
46:09
I mean, I think that Putin is suffering for sure. You can see it in all different ways
46:13
probably the most interesting thing that's happening right now is that he's so paranoid
46:17
that he's turned off the internet in Moscow and St. Petersburg. And most people in Russia didn't
46:22
care about the war. They were all like, it's not our problem, as long as we live comfortably and
46:26
fine. And all of a sudden, when they don't have their internet, they're all squeaking and screaming
46:34
as if the world is coming to an end. And so finally, Putin is seeing what it feels like for
46:39
normal Russians to be upset. Now, they're not upset about Ukrainians being killed every day
46:42
civilians being killed. They're only upset about not having internet, but at least the war is
46:47
coming home to them. Bill Browder, always a pleasure. Thank you very much indeed. Sir Bill
46:52
as I told you, is an anti-corruption campaigner and head of the global Magnitsky justice campaign
46:58
So it is clearer now that this is not quite what Kami Bader-Koch claimed in parliament yesterday
47:04
It is a postponement of an introduction, but as Bill just made crystal clear, A
47:08
in his view it shouldn't have been postponed at all and certainly any money raised
47:13
could be and would be used by Vladimir Putin to fund his war in
47:16
Ukraine and B, crucially this three month hiatus is something you need to keep a very
47:23
very close eye on because if it doesn't expire immediately after three months then
47:27
the situation gets worse and worse and worse. I now actually fully understand that issue which I
47:33
didn't when it came up in PMQs yesterday and which I suspect Kemi
47:36
Bader Knott still doesn't. It's coming up to 11 o'clock. You're listening to James O'Brien
47:40
on LBC. Absolutely extraordinary scenes from Israel overnight where a far-right minister filmed himself abusing
47:48
British citizens who had been illegally arrested. I'm going to say that again. A far-right Israeli
47:54
minister who remains in post filmed himself viciously abusing British citizens bound and handcuffed
48:04
who had been arrested illegally in international... It's not even an arrest, is it? They've been kidnapped in international
48:10
waters. And I have absolutely no idea why he did it. James O'Brien on LBC
48:18
Eight minutes after 11 is the time. Half past 11 today, we will
48:22
speak to the daughter of a man caught up in that absolute horror show
48:26
in Israel yesterday when the far-right minister, Itamar Ben-Gavir, filmed himself abusing British and Irish and many other citizens
48:34
who had been effectively kidnapped in international waters by Israeli forces. And, I mean, it's Mystery Hour today, which rarely makes me think
48:44
oh, rats, I wish we had three hours of the show. But today I would quite like to talk about that for an hour
48:50
I'm going to stick with the immigration for now, because I think it's the biggest story in our town, in this country
48:56
And then that gives you a chance to watch this footage. I'll play you a little bit of it now
49:00
But I do think that you need to see it to fully understand the absolute horror of what you are hearing
49:09
Because these are British people with their hands bound on their hands and knees
49:13
and Irish people, peace activists. People seeking to, well, depending on which way you look at it
49:20
either to take aid into the Gaza Strip or to prove how draconian
49:26
and quite possibly illegal, Israel's attempts to stop them from doing so would be
49:32
I mean, to be fair, history teaches us that in some ways they're lucky to be alive
49:37
As it is, they were kidnapped in international waters, transported back to Israel
49:40
bound and forced to kneel in the presence of this man. Be free, Palestine
49:46
Check it, check it, check it! So that's the security minister still in post
50:05
So some of the more prominent members of the Israeli regime will have condemned him
50:10
But what are words when he remains in his political position, essentially taunting people who are peace activists
50:22
dedicated to highlighting the horrors that people in Gaza are still exposed to
50:28
Even the US ambassador to Israel managed to condemn this behaviour as despicable
50:35
claiming that it betrayed the dignity of his nation. No doubt Mike Huckabee will be facing accusations
50:43
of anti-Semitism in approximately 10 seconds. So I want you to see the footage before we talk about it
50:49
And what I want you to do next is, A, stay tuned for the interview with Claire Azougar
50:55
whose father is among those bound and abused by the Israeli minister
51:00
and B, return your attention to that question that understandably dominates our news agenda
51:07
and indeed our news headlines, because it's what they said they wanted
51:13
it's what they said they wanted i have spent probably the best part of a decade
51:20
hearing people absolutely insist with a small pause during the pandemic when nobody could get
51:26
in or out of the country um hearing people insist quite furiously or let me say passionately
51:33
that the overall immigration numbers were the single most significant element of our politics
51:42
it was Brexit that happened because of it because of the promise from people like Farage
51:49
and Rhys Mogg and Johnson and the rest of them that Brexit would bring down these unbearable and unsustainable numbers
51:56
and I didn't understand then why people cared so much about it
52:01
it was the demonization of Romanian lorry drivers you wouldn't want to live next door to Romanians
52:08
I think was one of Farage's big plays at the time and Johnson sort of tacked himself half-heartedly
52:16
to that juggernaut of bile and bigotry. And it didn't get dispensed with
52:24
Brexit taught them nothing Immigration rocketed as a consequence of Brexit because all of the people who needed to be replaced couldn be tempted to come here unless they were allowed to bring family members with them
52:36
And that, of course, was all on Boris Johnson, but it was caused by Nigel Farage and his mates
52:42
all of whom take precisely zero responsibility for any of it, up to and including signing up some of the worst offenders
52:49
from those Conservative administrations to join his new outfit. But this is the point, isn't it
52:55
Everybody, well, we all know somebody who is absolutely adamant. They just want the numbers to come down
53:03
They just want the numbers. The numbers have to come. It's unsustainable. It's uncontrolled immigration, uncontrolled immigration
53:09
which was never accurate, but it doesn't matter. That's another battle that we lost, the battle of the words
53:15
the meaning of the words. What does uncontrolled mean? Well, anyone could come here whenever they want
53:19
and do whatever they want. It was never true. if you were in a country with whom we had a treaty that involved freedom of movement
53:25
because we were all members of the same bloc then yes it was relatively uncontrolled
53:29
but there were still freedoms under European Union membership to limit access to the welfare state
53:36
or to have requirements in place for relocating successive British governments all conservative
53:44
chose not to implement them but again we lost that battle we lost all the battles
53:48
Those of us with facts on our side, pathetic old facts, you can prove anything with facts, James
53:54
as a caller literally said to me during the Brexit years. And we lost the battle of the facts
53:59
to the stoker of the feelings. So why am I still optimistic that these facts might matter
54:08
Why am I still optimistic? Because the alternative is too bleak to contemplate, right
54:13
To actually believe that we're all turning into Goneril and Regan in King Lear
54:18
and pointing out that 100 is too many, but so is 50, and actually so is 20
54:23
Actually, why do we even need one? Which is a slight paraphrasing of, what is it
54:30
probably Act 4, Scene 2? I don't know, you'd have to check. Why do we even need one
54:36
And then you get the hate march on the weekend when they were calling. I mean, imagine if, and I don't always think this is helpful
54:42
but sometimes it is, because some people, I think, need a little bit of help
54:45
seeing what is happening to one part of the population by imagining it happening to another
54:51
So imagine if the things that were said about Muslims on Stephen Yaxley-Lennon's hate march this weekend
54:57
were said about British Jews, already facing epic increases in anti-Semitism and Islamophobia
55:02
as a direct consequence of the rhetoric that's linked to immigration, and other things in both cases, of course
55:09
But imagine if anybody was speaking publicly. Conservatives can't condemn them because Nick Timothy has already called
55:16
for them to be banned from praying in public. Again, imagine if that were to happen
55:19
to Catholics or to Jews in this country, for a senior conservative politician
55:24
to call for a ban on public prayer for a very specific and single religion
55:29
It's hideous. Absolutely hideous. And I refuse to accept that the entire portion of the population
55:40
that has expressed concerns about immigration are part of the same group that wants to ban praying in public
55:47
for Muslims or Jews or Catholics or whichever religion you prefer. At the moment, it's Muslims in the firing line
55:54
but it never stops there, as history has taught us. I refuse to believe that everybody bothered by a figure like 944,000
56:01
is going to be entirely unmoved by the decline, the plummeting of that figure to just shy of 200,000
56:10
It's an extraordinary drop. If it was net migration that you cared about
56:14
how can you not care about this? How can you not care about this
56:21
And that's why I want you to tell me, very simply, I got a few phone lines free now
56:25
for the first time since 10 o'clock this morning. Very, very simply, do you think it will make any difference
56:31
Optimists particularly welcome, but pessimists necessary to the conversation. Do you think it will make any difference
56:39
I tell you some things for a fact. Farage will lie about it and make claims that are not true
56:46
Of course he will. And if he's doing it with Nick Robinson on the BBC, he won't even get challenged
56:51
But that's like saying the sun will come up tomorrow. Nigel Farage will lie
56:57
What about people who are not fundamentally dishonest? People who do actually think that immigration has been a net negative to this country and who will welcome the news that it's falling
57:09
Wrongly, in my view. Wrongly, of course, in my view. But that battle has been lost
57:16
We lost all the battles. Lost the Brexit battle. Lost the battle over what immigration really represents
57:22
and what it really means. Lost the battle over what controlled and uncontrolled mean
57:26
Lost the battle over freedom of movement being a wonderful thing. For everybody lucky enough to be signed up to it
57:31
For every country lucky enough to be signed up to it. Lost the battle about the relationship
57:35
Still losing the battle about the relationship between a mobile workforce and economic growth
57:40
and the trade-offs, if you do care about such things, between freedom of movement of goods
57:47
and freedom of movement of people. We lost all those battles. Are we going to lose this one as well
57:56
Because this isn't even a battle that we wanted to have or win. It's a battlefield that we never wanted to be on
58:02
Okay, all right, the battlefield now is defined by the fact that the country thinks immigration is too high
58:07
that's agreed right you might not like it that's what Labour has built
58:11
its policy platform on immigration is too high so they've brought it down
58:15
a lot will it make any difference at all to public discourse
58:21
to your racist uncle's Facebook page or to your concerned persuaded citizen, friend
58:30
family member will it make any difference to you? You have insisted for years that immigration has to come down, and now it is
58:42
Is it possible for the things inside you to shift? Is anything going to change
58:48
I mean, half the country, I can tell you, thinks it's going up when it's actually going down
58:53
That was a story that was published in expectation of today's figure, but not directly linked to it
59:00
And it probably tallies with your personal experience. It probably tallies with the conversations that you have with the people in your life
59:08
It's coming down, but everybody or a significant part of the population are absolutely convinced that it's going up
59:14
Now, I think that that will change. Voters believe net migration is rising despite figures dropping sharply
59:21
One newspaper reports this morning, people mistakenly believe net migration is rising in Britain despite figures dropping to their lowest level in years
59:28
and no prizes for guessing which party is most or supporters of which party are most likely to be most wrong about it
59:36
But Labour stands at 41%. 41% of Labour supporters think that net migration was higher in 25 than 24
59:45
despite the fact that it plummeted by almost half. Might do a why on that as well. How do you turn that oil tanker around
59:52
Do you need the racists who are so popular at the moment to start telling the truth about immigration
59:57
for the people who have been brainwashed by the racist. to start understanding the truth about immigrants
1:00:02
There's no point me saying it. Well, you would say that, wouldn't you? You look like you read a book once
1:00:07
We don't like you. Stone him! Stone him! And his flipping facts
1:00:11
There's no point me telling you that immigration has plummeted. Who would need to tell you
1:00:15
Who would need to tell you? 30p Lee? I don't think you could count that high, to be honest with you
1:00:21
But still, who would make a difference? Why does half the population
1:00:25
why does a plurality of the population think that net migration is higher
1:00:29
in 2025 than it was in 2024, despite the fact that it's fallen by almost half
1:00:36
Incredible. All the questions are there. 03456060973 is the number you need
1:00:41
Is it going to make any difference at all? And why is the British public
1:00:47
so completely misinformed about the thing that many of them think is the biggest issue facing the country
1:00:55
How can you not know the facts about something you think is really, really important? That's a question for the ages
1:01:01
James O'Brien on LBC. It is 18 minutes after 11, and I mean, I don't think anyone was asking him about the immigration figures
1:01:12
People are still trying to ask him about the five million pounds that he secretly accepted from a foreign-based billionaire
1:01:17
who uses a Thai name to conduct his business and is set to make enormous sums of money
1:01:21
if the count of dodgy crypto himself, Nigel Farage, were ever to become prime minister
1:01:27
So here's the latest attempt to get the man who is fearless, dedicated to free speech
1:01:32
and always happy to answer questions from anybody, being asked a fairly obvious and straightforward question
1:01:37
Mr Farage, do you think that £5 million is going to cost you votes round here, Mr Farage
1:01:41
What have you got to say about the £5 million that you didn't declare? Oh, he's even given up shouting Bernard Manning now
1:01:51
Send him the clip. Shall we say that he could use it as a ringtone? He doesn't even bother shouting Bernard Manning anymore
1:01:57
just refuses to speak. This shortly after he pulled out of a public engagement
1:02:01
even after they'd insisted that any journalist attending submitted their questions in advance
1:02:06
Hmm, that sounds familiar, doesn't it? I can't think why. Farhad is in Wolverhampton
1:02:10
Is it going to make any difference, Farhad? Hi, James. No, no
1:02:17
As much as I really appreciate the data, the numbers, and everything gone behind it
1:02:22
has it ever made a difference? No. The thing that reform offers, the new right offers, is what you said, demonization
1:02:33
What does that offer? It's an escape, it's relief. But a population always contains 10, 15, maybe even as high as 20% of people in the sort of mindset that you describe
1:02:49
and it grows according to external factors. So a refugee crisis will always cause a rise in racism
1:02:57
if you live in a country unlucky enough to have politicians who will put up breaking point posters
1:03:03
on the same day that a woman is assassinated by a far-right terrorist
1:03:08
Economic difficulties will always cause an increase in racism if you're unlucky enough to live in a country populated by politicians
1:03:15
who have helped cause economic difficulties by taking the country out of the biggest trading block in the world
1:03:22
but will blame it all on immigrants. That's always going to be true. But the outside factors change, and the numbers
1:03:29
that's one of the biggest outside factors driving the feelings. That's one of the biggest facts driving the feelings
1:03:35
It's a big slogan out there. I come from a low economic postcode
1:03:40
a background where there's wonderful people from all walks of life and and my interactions are
1:03:49
fairly positive it you find common ground it's it's an environment where we always belong we
1:03:56
work together and and then as i grew old i find more and more questions coming my way about these
1:04:02
things and okay so let's let's talk about your your concerns and and it turns out well you're
1:04:10
one of the good ones, you appreciate. I don't mean you. You're all right. Yeah, yeah
1:04:16
And I express myself as I'm an immigrant. My journey started on a boat. We came here
1:04:22
We learnt that you appreciate the system. The system is so good and it will give you everything that you
1:04:28
want. But we're good. And respect it. And that's what we did
1:04:34
You fit in until very recently. And it's a question. You can never do
1:04:40
True enough, it's a refrain I hear a lot from people who've been victims of racism
1:04:45
and it's why they reserve particular unhappiness for some of the right-wing politicians
1:04:49
from ethnic minority backgrounds who seem to have gone all in on the kind of rhetoric that you describe
1:04:54
I can't judge them as a white person. What I can ask you, though, is whether or not I can dispel some of your pessimism
1:05:03
by just painting a picture of a country where everybody knows the truth
1:05:07
So we no longer live in a country, and this can happen, and will happen slowly
1:05:12
Voters believe net migration is rising despite figures dropping sharply. Let's fast forward two years and reverse that
1:05:18
and now voters know that net migration is dropping sharply so they can no longer believe that it isn't
1:05:23
which takes away one of the main drivers of the opinions, the feelings that they have
1:05:30
My understanding is from the people that have voted for me, they don't trust the politicians behind it themselves
1:05:39
they've never trusted the system but again it's a relief that despite the actual
1:05:45
politics and all the political issues we get a relief from what we can visually see around us
1:05:53
it's an escape we get to be different now and we get to be proud of them
1:05:59
and that's why I feel a little bit uncomfortable arguing with you about
1:06:03
what for me is a sort of theoretical optimism and for you is a
1:06:07
is a pessimism born of lived experience. I still, I mean, your brilliant observers
1:06:14
well, your sad contribution notwithstanding, I still don't believe that everybody who's put a cross
1:06:18
in that particular box in a ballot is possessed of the kind of sensibilities that you describe
1:06:24
But there is obviously, there are obviously a hell of a lot more people in that category
1:06:28
or susceptible to those sensibilities than many of us realised. Largely because we grew up, I think I'm older than you
1:06:35
in a world where political correctness prevailed, in a world where we had successfully pushed that sort of vileness to the boundaries
1:06:43
So it still existed. You'd still get the calls on a radio station like this, and even occasionally you might hear a presenter engaging in some pretty vile
1:06:51
sort of 1980s Sun newspaper-style bigotry, but they would be complaining often about political correctness
1:06:59
without ever explaining what it was. Every now and then something would slip through the net
1:07:04
and you'd realise they were complaining about not being allowed to be racist anymore
1:07:09
It's terrible. You're not allowed to be racist in this country anymore. And it was working
1:07:14
And then along came Brexit and suddenly you were allowed to be racist again
1:07:18
I mean, don't take my word for it. Look at the facts. Look at the figures. Look at the research that the Trades Union Congress published last month
1:07:23
about explicit and hideous racism in the workplace Look at the Royal College of Nursing just yesterday describing a jump of 86 in the last few years in blatant racist abuse including by colleagues
1:07:37
It'd been given permission. People have been told they can be racist again. So the reason why we didn't realise how many people
1:07:42
were susceptible to this was because they'd been shamed into keeping their views quiet
1:07:48
And then along came Uncle Nigel and gave them permission to do it all in public again
1:07:52
including to nurses and doctors. and anybody else, quite frankly, who they were minded to abuse
1:07:58
while simultaneously reassuring people like Farhad that we don't mean you. Thank you, mate. Alton's in Blackpool
1:08:05
Alton, what do you reckon? I don't hold that much optimism. Oh, it's just me, then
1:08:11
This is a lonely show, Alton. I mean, it's easy for me to say as well, of course
1:08:16
because I'm not on the sharp end of the abuse that these nurses and these TEC members are receiving
1:08:22
Go on, tell me why. well i found out last week my sister joyfully texted me to tell me she was going on the uh
1:08:28
britain whatever the march was in london the hate march the hate march the actual hate march
1:08:34
we could call it and i said why are you going because i consider her an intelligent you know
1:08:39
we grew up middle class in somerset i considered us to be relatively intelligent people yeah and
1:08:45
she was like oh well i'm going on it because let women speak are going to it which i found
1:08:50
kind of curious, which is something she's involved with. Is that a trans thing
1:08:54
Yes. Okay. And I went, but there are, you know, the people going are racist. They're not all racist
1:09:00
I said, well, they might all be racist, but there's a lot of racist going to be there. It's been organised
1:09:04
by racists. It's a racist enterprise. All of the people that they invited to
1:09:08
speak are well-known racists, and so vile in some cases that they were prohibited from coming into the country
1:09:14
Do you know why, Alton? What was, why she went? No, no, no. Do you know why they couldn't get into the country
1:09:20
Not if I saw that No, it's because we control our borders
1:09:25
That is so true Yeah, I mean, she said Oh, when we're told
1:09:31
So this is the thing about facts She said, I said that we're being told We can't be proud of our country
1:09:36
And fly our flag And I went, that's not true And my neighbours are saying
1:09:42
Oh, the country's being taken over my Muslims And when you try and give these people facts
1:09:47
Whether it's my sister or my neighbour they just look at you blankly
1:09:51
and then I was told that I watched too much BBC and I should read up on this more
1:09:55
On Facebook, presumably. On Facebook and YouTube, yeah. And it's like, and that's why even when these facts
1:10:03
like, you know, immigration has fallen considerably, well, it'll all be lies, won't it
1:10:08
Which I guess has been slightly imported from America. Well, and also imported from America
1:10:13
lies from precisely the same organisations that gave you the high numbers
1:10:16
that you were very cross about previously. So you're just choosing, the source remains the same
1:10:21
You just choose which bits of the research you choose to believe and which bits you don't
1:10:25
And this is important. This is important. This is somebody who I would probably have seen
1:10:33
as in potential tomorrow in Telford territory, not someone who could be loosely dismissed as knuckle-dragging
1:10:39
or uneducated or anything like that. This is someone who is, as we discovered actually
1:10:43
during some of the lockdown era conspiracy theories, that class and education have very little to do with one's susceptibility to propaganda
1:10:54
And that's what's happened here. Absolutely. I think the thing that really depressed me is I kind of always held in my head
1:11:01
that there were these people out there, but they were, I think one of your other callers referred to swivel-eyed loons
1:11:07
I don't consider my sister to be a swivel-eyed loon, so why is she doing that
1:11:11
I mean, it really upset me. Because she believes what she's been told
1:11:15
She believes what she's been told. So that's why she's in the category that I'm talking about
1:11:20
She could be persuaded to believe something that's true just as easily as she could be persuaded to believe something that's not true
1:11:27
But you don't sound hopeful. Is it more seductive? Is it more, I mean, being told that you're being prevented from doing something
1:11:34
appeals to a part of our personality that is unreachable by the truth that you're not being told that
1:11:40
I mean, no one's being prevented from flying flags. I think it's obnoxious to fly them on lampposts outside the houses
1:11:46
are people who really don't want them on lampposts outside their own houses. It's an incredible imposition
1:11:50
You're not allowed to be proud of your country. What the hell does that even mean? How do you reach these people
1:11:57
I don't know. I mean, I tried arguing with her, she said, I don't want to fall out over this. And I thought to myself, they're trying to divide us
1:12:02
I'm going to try not to fall out with her. And I'm going to try to continue to put facts before her
1:12:08
I mean, I said, these people want me dead. And she went, well, what do you mean? I said, well, I'm gay. Yeah
1:12:14
And she went, oh, no, no. And then my neighbours were like, all the Muslims would want you
1:12:18
they throw you off buildings. And I went, no, that's exactly why some people are leaving some of those countries and seeking a better life
1:12:24
That's a brilliant point. There's some evil regimes out there. They don't want, you know..
1:12:29
Oh, sorry, I'm ranting now. No, welcome to my world on so many fronts
1:12:33
except, of course, I don't... Again, I'm not gay, so I wouldn't be on the sharp end of what you described, but I'll tell you something
1:12:38
you're going to really enjoy. Enjoy might not be the right word. Russell T. Davis' new drama, I've had a sneak preview of it
1:12:44
on Channel 4 at the end of this month, Tiptoe, addresses precisely the issues you've just described
1:12:51
and the fact that, you know, you start with one and it moves very quickly onto another persecuted part of society
1:12:56
and that no progress, this was quite depressing, it's why it's called Tiptoe, actually, one of the reasons
1:13:01
No progress is permanent. All of these victories that we thought that we'd won
1:13:06
on all fronts, you know, whether it's gay rights or whether it's anti-racism
1:13:11
they're only ever temporary, aren't they? They're only ever temporary. There's always someone waiting to push back against them
1:13:17
And that really scares me. It really does. Of course it does
1:13:20
And it's why it's such a powerful piece of drama that I can't recommend highly enough
1:13:24
Alton, thank you. I hope you managed to build bridges with your sister. But, of course, bridges made of facts
1:13:29
often feel a little bit useless compared to bridges made of feelings. I think that's what Starmer was addressing
1:13:35
It's really interesting that... claiming that point he made about stories being more effective than spreadsheets
1:13:42
I think he was actually critiquing discourse. He was pointing out that a story, even if it's not true
1:13:50
can get further into the public consciousness than a spreadsheet can. I guess the best recent example of that is a story that is true
1:13:58
not mattering to the British public, until it was turned into a story
1:14:02
When it was a spreadsheet, the post office scandal didn't really resonate
1:14:05
anything like as much as it did when it was turned into a story. But if the story's not true
1:14:11
it's still more effective than a spreadsheet. The immigration figures today are a spreadsheet
1:14:17
The story that you're not allowed to fly a flag in this country or say that you're proud of it
1:14:23
that is a story. The immigration figures are a spreadsheet. The racist propaganda is a story
1:14:29
It's a seductive and persuasive story, which is why almost all of my callers
1:14:34
are rejecting my optimism this morning that this latest spreadsheet, these latest numbers, will matter a jot
1:14:45
It is 11.31. Up next, the daughter of a man caught up in this horror show
1:14:52
coming out of Israel overnight, where the far security minister filmed himself abusing handcuffed kneeling British citizens Irish citizens many many other citizens who had been illegally kidnapped in international waters Filmed himself
1:15:08
abusing them is the element of it that I find most incomprehensible, and which we will talk
1:15:15
about tomorrow when you've had a longer chance to actually watch the footage. We'll speak to the
1:15:23
daughter of one of the men caught up in that after the very latest headlines with dominic ellis
1:15:26
james o'brien on lbc it is 11 35 and i think this touches slightly on the point that alton in
1:15:33
blackpool just made about the world that we currently inhabit so much of the misinformation
1:15:38
and disinformation that seeps into our um consciousness via social media most obviously
1:15:45
but also via bent and biased media, is breathtaking. So much so these days that sometimes I think
1:15:55
I see something and I think that can't be quite real. That can't be quite real
1:16:00
There's, no, something must be, that can't. And that's where I was yesterday
1:16:06
as I watched footage of the far-right Israeli security minister filming himself while abusing activists who had been kidnapped, I think, under international law
1:16:21
would be the correct word to use, but I stand corrected if I've got that wrong
1:16:25
in international waters hundreds of miles from the Israeli coast as they made their way towards Gaza
1:16:30
in the hope of delivering aid. and the footage was so gross
1:16:37
and the image of the detainees so hideous, it would look like Guantanamo Bay
1:16:42
They were bent double on the floor with their hands tied behind their backs and quite possibly one of them
1:16:48
was a 72-year-old British RAF veteran called Malcolm Ducker. We don't know for sure, of course
1:16:54
because they're not exactly bending over backwards to help the families of detainees
1:16:59
or to reassure the families of detainees, but he was on the flotilla and as far as his family knows
1:17:04
So he is in that room that Itamar Ben-Gavir treated like a sort of pantomime stage
1:17:11
as he marched around boasting and making hideous statements. Malcolm's daughter, Claire, Claire Azugar, is with me now
1:17:21
And I begin, I suppose, Claire, by asking you whether, as you watched those hideous, almost unbelievable scenes unfolding
1:17:31
you caught any glimpses of your dad? Hi, James. Well, at first I felt physically sick
1:17:39
and I actually had to go and talk to a friend first to counsel myself so I could actually, like, face them
1:17:45
I knew he was there. And actually I later watched it back and a friend's mother pointed out her son
1:17:51
who is a good friend of mine, Yassine Benjeloun. He's part of the Moroccan delegation
1:17:55
We saw him bent over double and then not far from him I saw my father's spine
1:17:59
I would recognize his spine anywhere. so I know he's there. And I noticed that his hands were not behind his back
1:18:05
because he can't get his hands behind his back so instead they were tied around his neck
1:18:09
You mean because of... Of his age. Yeah, he's 72 so I just know he's not that flexible
1:18:16
so I noticed they were around his neck and I noticed that he wasn't as far bent down as the others
1:18:20
because he just physically can't be. I'm so sorry. Yeah, it's pretty horrific
1:18:25
And last time James, because he was there in October an Israeli soldier shouted at him
1:18:30
and he refused to obey because he said that's not how you talk to people. You have to use politeness
1:18:35
And then the guy kicked him in the back of his legs and forced him down onto the ground. And that's what happened last time
1:18:41
What drives him to undertake these journeys? First of all, he's a sailor and he wants to be useful
1:18:48
and he wants to help and he wants to try and create a better world for his grandchildren, for all the children of the world
1:18:54
He can't stand seeing the annihilation of the Palestinian people, their continued suffering and starvation
1:18:59
and he felt that flotilla was a best way of trying to reach them but also to get media attention to
1:19:05
get the world's attention onto their plight which i have to say has worked because now everyone's
1:19:10
talking about it yeah and and i mean it makes the current scenario quite confusing really because
1:19:16
for once there's been absolutely undiluted condemnation of of bengavir albeit that
1:19:23
netanyahu has joined in but not actually sanctioned or sacked the man in any meaningful way but you've
1:19:28
got the US ambassador condemning it. You've got Italy's prime minister, the Spanish foreign
1:19:33
minister, less surprisingly, all using incredibly strong language. And Yvette Cooper, the foreign
1:19:40
secretary, stating that she is truly appalled at the video posted by Israeli cabinet minister
1:19:45
Ben Gover, taunting those involved in the global summit flotilla. Have you heard anything from the
1:19:51
foreign office? No, they seem to be just in the dark as we are. They say they've been in contact
1:19:57
but we can't find a single family that's had any actual contact with the foreign minister
1:20:01
The FCDO, when we call them, they just say, have you heard from your family member, which is very confusing because we think, don't you understand that they're prisoners
1:20:08
and they've been abducted, so how can they possibly contact us? We're coming to you, hoping that you will be able to give us information
1:20:14
I just want to say that the European and the British and the Americans
1:20:20
summoning their ambassadors and making these statements is the very least they could do
1:20:25
We have seen these images coming out before of Palestinians being treated like this
1:20:29
In fact, much, much worse. We've just had the report from the New York Times about the systemic use of sexual violence against Palestinian prisoners, including women and children
1:20:39
That is in the New York Times report. It is extensively well done. By Nick Kristof
1:20:42
I mean, obviously, the Israeli government has denied it. And I think they've even deployed the blood libel label to describe it
1:20:49
but the New York Times will be undertaking, well, they will have undertaken their own checks and balances
1:20:56
before publishing that. That makes the idea of waking up to discover
1:21:00
that your dad is in Israeli detention absolutely terrifying. It's horrific, but it is horrific
1:21:06
But the thing is, I do have some reassurance that because of his passport, because of the international attention
1:21:11
that he will come home to us. And what makes me sad is that we live in a world
1:21:15
where it takes this for people to pay attention. I wish that we would all care about Palestinians
1:21:19
just as much as we care about the British passport holders the international passport holders
1:21:23
they all deserve our attention Yes, because had this been undertaken by people who don't enjoy the protection
1:21:31
of an EU passport or a British passport or an Irish passport I think the Irish President's sister is in the same flotilla
1:21:37
I mean she's there now as well then you're right it wouldn't be getting anything like the levels of attention
1:21:43
that it's currently getting which makes me a little bit wary about asking you the next question
1:21:47
but just from a place of complete puzzlement, Claire, do you have a view at all
1:21:54
on what Ben Gavir was playing at yesterday? Because, I mean, it's a bad enough scenario
1:21:59
if I'm reading about it, if I get you on my programme and you describe to me
1:22:03
or your father joins us when he is hopefully and happily home and he tells us about what happened to him
1:22:09
And we respond just before you came on. I was exploring the difference between a story and a statistic
1:22:15
and without these pictures and without this man behaving in such a hideous fashion it's closer to
1:22:21
being a statistic than a story and now he has made it into it do you have any idea what he playing at here well he did it last time too He did turn up and taunt them and yell at them but not in the same escalated fashion
1:22:35
There wasn't the same level of violence and force that was used
1:22:39
I think that he's playing to a certain demographic of the Israeli audience
1:22:44
I think that... But also the point is, he said, I want to give you a taste of how I treat Palestinian prisoners
1:22:49
That is what he said. and you know this is the point is that he is he gloats all the time about how he treats
1:22:56
palestinian prisoners the fact that he was the one who pushed through that apartheid law of
1:23:01
execution that will only apply to palestinian prisoners um this is he's playing to a base i
1:23:06
understand their elections coming up soon so perhaps this is but i just think it's his
1:23:10
it's his modus operandi i think he's a thug in a suit and i think that this is the level of
1:23:15
politician that we're dealing with in israel unfortunately and tragic for the palestinians
1:23:19
And still in post, of course. Do you ever try and talk your dad out of it
1:23:25
Um, no, we have had discussions with the family. I don't personally. I don't personally because I see what it means to him
1:23:32
And I see, I said to him, you'll be miserable if you don't go, won't you? And he said, yeah, I'll be a pain in the ass
1:23:36
And I said, well, you better go then. But obviously your heart is in your hands for the entire journey until he comes back safely
1:23:45
absolutely i said my mom is very measured and she said you know when it come on to take when you take
1:23:50
on something with such gross injustice whether it be apartheid south africa or you know women's
1:23:55
rights or whatever it might be it's not easy it costs it takes sacrifice and this is what it's
1:24:01
going to cost and it's not going to end today um this is going to have to continue people are going
1:24:05
to have to be prepared to make sacrifices and and to be clear and just for the benefit of people
1:24:10
are listening i think more than me the the the aid itself is in some sense symbolic i i mean
1:24:16
nobody really sets off on these flotillas believing that they're going to get to gaza
1:24:21
the point is i think my yeah i think my dad did i think he was really like i think he felt
1:24:26
i think he felt we've got enough boats this time one of us will get through okay um but obviously
1:24:30
the israelis changed strategy and just did more interceptions and even if they do get through it
1:24:35
would be a drop in the ocean of what is needed because all ingress into that territory is
1:24:39
completely controlled by Netanyahu's regime. It is as much an achievement, if not more
1:24:46
as you've explained to us, to shine a spotlight on, which is what makes it so odd that Ben
1:24:51
Kavira started dancing hideously in that spotlight, to shine a spotlight on what the
1:24:56
Palestinian people are up against through the lens of the treatment of the people trying to help them
1:25:02
Absolutely. On that front, it's been a success. And I think also on another level
1:25:06
that the people of Gaza know that there are people out there who haven't forgotten them
1:25:10
prepared to put their safety on the line, who are prepared to risk something to get to them
1:25:14
to show they're not forgotten. And in fact, I'd just like to say that my 11-year-old daughter saw a video
1:25:19
of some children in Gaza watching the skyline, watching the ocean to see the boats coming
1:25:25
And when she heard that her grandfather had been captured and when she heard that all the other boats
1:25:29
had been captured, she said, oh, but the children will be so disappointed. They'll be so disappointed nobody's coming
1:25:34
And I just thought that we need to start seeing this to the eyes of children more and more because that is where our heart should be, that we have disappointed children and that they need us
1:25:43
Claire, thank you. I'm a bit lost for words at that imagery, which is a testimony to how powerful it is
1:25:49
I hope we can speak again soon or possibly even speak to your dad when he's when he's back home safe
1:25:56
I hope so. I really do. Claire Azuga there telling us of her
1:26:01
And I'm going to mention that he's a British RAF veteran because it matters and it doesn't matter
1:26:05
I mean, it matters and it doesn't matter to me particularly, but if you are persuadable that everybody going on expeditions like this
1:26:16
is the sort of person that got thrown out of the hate march on Sunday
1:26:20
because she looked like she'd read a book, then, you know, an RAF veteran, a military hero
1:26:25
undertaking actions that many people join our armed forces to do, to protect people, to help people
1:26:35
And on the other side of the moral compass, you have Itamar Ben-Gavir, the Israeli security minister
1:26:42
who no doubt has admirers in this country. It's 1146. James O'Brien on LBC
1:26:49
It's 1149. You can find footage and, I mean, God, perish the thought, quite possibly spot Claire's dad in the film
1:26:57
You can find it on the LBC website. I mean, it's all over the place
1:27:00
And I think when you've had a little more time to watch it, we'll return to this territory tomorrow
1:27:04
and ask what that man was playing at. Because I don't know. I don't understand Israeli politics well enough, perhaps
1:27:11
to understand why anybody would think that that would be an acceptable
1:27:15
let alone a positive thing to do. But I'm sure there are people listening who will be able to tell me
1:27:21
and we'll hear from them tomorrow. For now, though, we stay with the question of
1:27:25
whether the spreadsheet will tell a story, whether or not immigration figures plummeting
1:27:32
will make any difference at all to public discourse, which has, by very, very, very clear design
1:27:38
been dominated by immigration scaremongering now since the Brexit debate began. And I just don't know whether the numbers coming down
1:27:47
will change the temperature of the national conversation. But I still think, despite the long queue of people this morning telling me that I'm being overly optimistic, I still think it has to, ultimately
1:28:00
Ultimately, facts have to matter. You know, you live in periods where they don't, where they are squeezed out, where they're actually undermined, whether it's, I don't know, whether it's the Khmer Rouge or Donald Trump
1:28:14
You live through eras where a regime will kill truth. it's the first casualty not just of war but of course of extremism and it has to end the facts
1:28:26
have to prevail eventually and before we get back to the fans just one quick story for you
1:28:31
um also from the middle east the taliban um have legalized child marriage and declared the silence
1:28:40
of a girl who had reached puberty a virgin girl is the phraseology that they use um her silence
1:28:47
can be interpreted as marital consent. It's an absolutely hideous story. I mention it for two reasons
1:28:54
One, because Alton in Blackpool made the point that people fleeing that sort of horror show
1:28:59
and fleeing that sort of persecution are now being demonised and targeted in this country
1:29:04
and some of the truly worst of us, some of the very worst people in this country
1:29:10
would be keen to send those women and quite possibly children back
1:29:17
to the Taliban. How do we know that? Because, well, one of them was stupid enough to tell us
1:29:24
I've already got two countries agreeing that if we win the next election
1:29:28
they will cooperate with me. The Taliban, I mean, by the way, they're not my mates
1:29:32
but the Taliban have said they would accept people back from us to Afghanistan
1:29:37
They've said that already. I sort of think I'm the only person that noticed that
1:29:42
I really do. There's Nigel Farage there negotiating with the Taliban. I wonder who he sent
1:29:48
I doubt it was a woman, especially the one that hates brown faces on the telly
1:29:52
Goodness knows how she'd feel about them being opposite. Was it, so do you think they sent 30p Lee to negotiate with the telly
1:29:58
But why haven't they told us? Is it Lee? Eagle? Are you allowed to negotiate with a prescribed group like the Taliban
1:30:04
But anyway, Farage has been on the phone to them, apparently, making arrangements to send girls back to a country
1:30:08
where they can be married off against their will at the age of nine. Well done, everybody
1:30:16
So, will the people who like him and policies like that be persuaded to calm down a bit by today's immigration figures
1:30:24
What do you reckon? Hugh is in, wait for it, Ponticumma. Ponticumma
1:30:29
Oh, flipping it. Carry on. Welsh names. I'm going to go on a course, Hugh
1:30:34
I'm going to go on a course. Pontycoma. Yes. Carry on. They wrote on the screen
1:30:40
They did it phonetically for me, and they literally wrote porn, like the chess piece
1:30:45
T, coom, with a K, K-O-O-M-U. So that's wrong. It's not coom, it's cum
1:30:53
Thank you. I think that's where your producer is helping around. Pontycoma. Pontycoma
1:30:58
Pontycoma. Carry on, Hugh. What would you like to say? Yeah, I'd like sort of a little bit of hope, I suppose
1:31:04
You know, we just had a Senate election in Wales that was predicted to be neck and neck between Plaid Cymru and reform
1:31:12
And, in fact, Plaid Cymru won sort of quite convincingly five percentage points
1:31:19
And what was interesting, obviously, YouGov did polling beforehand asking people what their number one issues were
1:31:26
immigration was third I think with like top 25% but that was skewed massively because obviously
1:31:32
cost of living and health were the two main issues but with reform voters
1:31:38
over 50% it was immigration and you know Plaid Cymru fought a campaign not shying
1:31:44
away from immigration actually discussing its benefits and I'd like to pull you
1:31:48
up on something I don't know what you're going to say no you got me bang to rights mate bang to rights you got me
1:31:54
say it out loud go on slap me So the two parties, I think, who've done more about this
1:31:59
are the SNP in Scotland and Plain Cymru in Wales. And, you know, Sreena Piorraff has been quite open
1:32:05
talking about, you know, the benefits of... So they haven't given up the battle that I've been describing
1:32:09
as lost all morning, and the fact that they just won a big result in Wales
1:32:13
suggests that I was talking out of my backside. And actually used it as part of their pitch
1:32:18
Obviously, you're not going to win everybody over. You know, reform did get just under, I think, 29% of the vote
1:32:26
But again, we have to remember reformed vote is skewed by older people
1:32:31
And I think, you know, one of the, it's not a positive, but, you know, their support and the people who voted for Brexit
1:32:36
are slowly dying off. And I think younger people, because I think the Cair Philly by-election
1:32:42
before Christmas, you know, that was seen as, you know, reformed through everything at that
1:32:46
Farage came down three times, you know, but it was all about immigration in an area
1:32:52
where it's got the lowest immigration in the whole of the UK. I think it's like 99% of the population are well-efficient
1:32:58
So Great Yarmouth might challenge it on that front. I know that there's some parts of Norfolk and Essex
1:33:04
where, again, the Brexit vote was huge, but the actual immigration figures were relatively tiny
1:33:11
But, I mean, that's how you know it works, isn't it? The people most terrified of it
1:33:15
are the people who have the least experience of it. Yeah. But what was interesting there was
1:33:19
obviously, you know, sort of neck and neck, I mean, actually one with a big majority, 5,000
1:33:24
and a lot of that was credited as well to younger people actually coming out to vote
1:33:28
You know, 16-year-olds were able to vote in elections in Wales and a lot of those young people came out and used their voices
1:33:35
So I think, you know, I don't think, I think the numbers coming down, you know, could have an effect
1:33:39
but it all comes back again to information and political education. There was another poll, I think, it was like 47% of people thought that the majority of immigration was due to small votes
1:33:51
and as you mentioned, there's like 4% or 5% of the overall numbers
1:33:55
So it's this perception. They're obviously being told stuff by the foreman. It's 4% to 5% and it's caused entirely by policies that were introduced
1:34:03
in the hope of bringing down the official numbers. It's incredible that, isn't it
1:34:09
So call it irregular migration. Caused by attempts to bring down regular migration
1:34:14
Yeah, but I think the big issue as well is how it was legitimised, you know, hearing Labour politicians all the way along
1:34:20
people are right to be concerned about immigration without actually explaining what immigration is
1:34:27
Because we know, for people who look into it, that the majority of people who come here
1:34:31
half come to study, half come to work. I've been in hospital over the last year
1:34:37
having various bits of operations and treatments. I've been lying in wards that is full of people like me
1:34:44
white, Welsh, middle-aged men being treated by people from all over the world
1:34:49
and that's the thing that's worrying is when you hear about people being, you know, the incidents
1:34:54
of, you know, race hates in hospitals going up, where, you know, the lived
1:34:58
experiences of people, you know, surely there was, I was in there, the last time
1:35:02
I was in, I was having a gallbladder out and it was the first time ever there was a person
1:35:06
who wasn't white, Welsh in there, and I got talking to the guy
1:35:10
and he was a doctor from India who left India, got job on a cruise ship
1:35:18
as a doctor, settled in Southampton, came to South Wales, set up a GP practice
1:35:23
and served the community for over 40 years. So the only person there was actually somebody
1:35:28
who's contributed more than most people. So it's quite ironic. Yeah, well, this is the I don't mean you paradigm, isn't it
1:35:35
Because you hear a story, oh, I don't mean him, Hugh. I don't mean, I mean the other ones, the ones on my Facebook feed, the ones in the boats
1:35:40
the ones doing this, the ones doing that. Well, I had it during Brexit in Ponte Cummer
1:35:45
you know, talking to people, how are you voting? Oh, I'm voting for Brexit, why? immigration, and you ask them, what immigrants
1:35:50
Can you ask them on the ground? The only immigrants here are the people you get your Indian and your Chinese from
1:35:54
Oh yeah, but they're different. But they were literally being fed this thing that they thought
1:35:58
that the UK had been filled up from the bottom up with, you know, people coming in
1:36:01
And they still do, and they've gone unchallenged, and they wouldn't have got Brexit over the line without it
1:36:06
and they haven't even tried to get it back in the bottle. They've just moved on to
1:36:10
the next project, blown up the next bridge, brought Boris Johnson into Downing Street
1:36:14
and that was, went well for everybody, so now they're trying to get Farage in. Um, nothing ever changes if what everything you sell is built on lies and bigotry, but, um, of course, you just have questions about how long we have to endure it before decency returns, a question that America is currently asking itself and which Hungary has just answered
1:36:33
Hugh, what a great call, thank you. Um, I thought I might have dreamt it, the idea of someone being chucked out of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon's hate march because she looked like she'd read a book
1:36:41
So, I began to just double-check what I was looking at. I need to clarify something else
1:36:45
Well, personally, Victoria, I don't think I do need to clarify this
1:36:49
but you've asked me to, so I will. Can you please clarify that the group that was referenced
1:36:53
as attending the hate march are anti-trans, as opposed to trans, because trans people strangely tend to be a pretty woke bunch
1:37:01
I did think that was obvious, Victoria, but I am more than happy to clarify
1:37:07
Just as I'm happy to play you this extra... Again, it's best seen with pictures
1:37:11
but by the time this is clipped up and stuck on your socials, it probably will have pictures
1:37:15
To the best of my knowledge, and as always, I'm open to correction or reinterpretation
1:37:20
To the best of my knowledge this is footage of a British woman at the hate march on Sunday organised by the serial criminal and immigration offender Stephen Yaxley being removed from the crowd because other members of that crowd
1:37:36
who are just perfectly ordinary people with legitimate concerns, thought that she looked as if she'd read a book once
1:37:43
Although that's not how they put it. They said she looks like a right effing lefty
1:37:47
Hopefully Keith has bleeped part of that sentence. Get her out
1:38:01
Get her out! She's got the right Let's get her out! Get her out
1:38:06
She's not just a- She's not just a- I think you really tried to say Look at her
1:38:10
She is looking green on the face! Look at her! Look at her
1:38:14
I know! Get her out! Look at her! Look at her! She's here to wipe the door
1:38:19
You're gonna have to go Leap, yeah? Look at her earlier I mean, she's got a right effing lefty look on her face
1:38:35
Get her out, get her out. I mean, these are the free speech bros, right
1:38:39
These are the guys that think they're free speech. They're two-tier care and all that malarkey. Literally being removed from a public place for wearing spectacles, was it, do you think
1:38:51
Looking like she'd read a book once. There's a bloke there talking about her hair
1:38:56
She looks like she's had an electric shirt. So they didn't like her hairstyle? They're literally expelling her
1:39:03
I mean, I thought I might have imagined that. She's got a right effing lefty look
1:39:09
I'm going to go out on a limb here. I don't think that lady shouting that
1:39:15
I don't think she's going to be much moved by today's immigration statistics
1:39:21
It's Mystery Hour next. James O'Brien on LBC. Six minutes after... Twelve is the time
1:39:28
I think you said ten. That would have given you a bit of a shock to the old system, wouldn't it? And time for Mystery Hour, your weekly opportunity to achieve the sort of satisfaction
1:39:35
not ordinarily available anywhere else on your radio. If you've never come across this feature before, then it's rather fun
1:39:43
It's one of my favourite parts of the week. And it almost always yields moments of delightful levity, proper fun
1:39:50
Even occasionally some frolics. It's not a particularly complicated premise. One person rings in with a question, could be almost anything
1:39:59
and someone else then rings in with an answer. And somewhere between those two positions, magic can happen, as you are about to discover
1:40:10
I even, these days, have a prize for my favourite contribution of the week
1:40:14
It is a Mystery Hour game, of which there are now two versions, would you believe
1:40:19
More on that after this. You have the original board game and you also have the travel edition, which is in a tin
1:40:27
which is a lovely little bit of kit, actually. If you're looking for a reasonably priced present
1:40:31
for the curious person in your life, by which I mean they are curious about things
1:40:37
not that they are curious, as in they sort of, I don't know, wear antlers to the pub or something like that
1:40:43
then I would heartily recommend the travel edition of the game. But if you want something to take on holiday
1:40:49
for fun with all the family, then get the board game version. Find out more at mysteryhour.co.uk
1:40:54
the website, and get your terms and conditions for the actual competition at lbc.co.uk
1:41:00
Before Mystery Hour starts, I need to do something. Can anyone remember
1:41:04
and I'm looking at my colleagues now, why I mentioned Pol Pot earlier? Was anyone listening
1:41:10
No? All busy. Is there cake in there again? Someone delivered some cake
1:41:15
Yeah, Keith makes a valid point. I actually said it, and I don't remember either. so I'm probably not in a position to start throwing stones
1:41:21
But I mentioned either Pol Pot or the Khmer Rouge. What have we got at the moment? A 10-second delay
1:41:27
So is it worth waiting to see if anyone else can remember why I mentioned Pol Pot or the Khmer Rouge
1:41:32
Because I can't remember why I mentioned it. But what I did forget was that if you wore glasses
1:41:39
in Khmer Rouge-era Cambodia, one of the most brutal regimes of the last century
1:41:46
I mean, two million people dead, a Marxist, so-called Marxist leader. Pol Pot dragging Cambodia back to the Middle Ages
1:41:55
forcing millions of people from the cities to move to communal farms in the countryside
1:42:02
If you wore spectacles, it was a death sentence. And that's what happened at Stephen Yaxley's Lenin's march on Sunday
1:42:10
They expelled a woman wearing spectacles because she had a right-lefty look on her face
1:42:14
that the Khmer Rouge Pol Pot literally thought that spectacles were a sign of education
1:42:18
and educated people would be an obstacle to his totalitarian regime. So you read this stuff, oh, that was 1976 in Cambodia
1:42:28
It's funny, right? And then you turn on your flipping television or your computer
1:42:33
and someone's sharing a clip of a woman being publicly almost lynched
1:42:38
because of her face and her spectacles. And that's British values for you
1:42:44
I suppose she was lucky to get away without having a flag stapled to her forehead. Anyway, enough of that nonsense
1:42:49
It's time for Mystery Hour. Catherine's in Poulbra. Catherine, question or answer? Oh, hello, question
1:42:54
Hello, Catherine. Lovely to speak to you. I agree. I'm wondering why magpies like shiny things
1:43:01
why they like picking them up and flying away with them. I like that. I mean, I'm almost certain that we've done it before
1:43:07
but I'm of an age now, Catherine, where I've done almost everything before
1:43:11
So we're just going around again with a little bit more enthusiasm than we had the first time
1:43:15
Have you lost anything recently to an acquisitive magpie? We used to have a pet magpie, and it used to love stealing people's car keys
1:43:24
which was quite funny to fly away with them and dump them in. When you say a pet magpie, do you just mean a friendly magpie
1:43:32
No, we found it as a fledgling when it was, it'd fallen out of its nest
1:43:37
and we rang around all the animal places, and they said to leave it
1:43:41
and we left it, and it survived one night in a rural area
1:43:44
and then we were like, no, we better feed it and look after it, and it just stayed with us
1:43:50
Where did it sleep? Did it stay in the house? It did come in the house sometimes, but it did sleep outside
1:43:56
Of course. My nanny also had a pet magpie when she was growing up
1:44:01
Is this a thing? I've not heard of it. I don't know
1:44:05
That's two for joy, isn't it? That's a relief. Don't let anyone else in the family get one. No
1:44:09
Not if you're superstitious. I know, I think that superstition's really unfair
1:44:12
because they're really intelligent birds. They can live to be up to 20 years
1:44:16
and they can mimic human speech. And did it, did yours? Um, not, not..
1:44:22
Oh, you had a slow one. My first band was called The Slow Magpies
1:44:26
And, well, there goes my next question. I was going to ask you what words he could do. What was his name? Rags
1:44:31
Rags. That's lovely, that. Rags the magpie. Why did Rags, Nick Carkid
1:44:36
why did magpies like shiny things? I'm trying to think. the reason I kept Catherine on the line there was because sometimes if I do that I kind of find the question
1:44:44
Germinated crystallizing in my mind as a rig whether I'm dragging it up from my memory or whether I'm working it out for myself
1:44:50
I think it's a reason why magpies like shiny things. It's gone. I've not got it if it was ever there
1:44:54
It not there now Thank you Catherine 11 minutes after 12 is the time Our first question is on the board What will the second one be Jason in Edgeware Jason question or answer It a question sir
1:45:05
Carry on, Jason. Why don't people ride zebras? You see people riding horses
1:45:12
You see people riding elephants and everything else. And I was reading the Game of Thrones the other day
1:45:18
Oh, yes. And they were talking about people coming into the castle on black and white horses
1:45:24
and I'm like, well, that's a zebra. And then it suddenly... I've never seen anybody ride a zebra
1:45:30
Have you seen anybody try? Well, no, that's what I mean. Well, that might be the answer
1:45:37
You might, if you watch someone try to ride a zebra, you might get the answer as to why people don't try much
1:45:43
Yeah, but they look like horses, and they look like donkeys, etc., etc. They do? Well, yeah, they're equine, aren't they, I think
1:45:48
Yeah. Part of the same genus or... But even ostriches or camels or whatever
1:45:52
I don't think anyone ever rode an ostrich. That was Don McLean running the marathon in a suit
1:45:57
No, they do. They race them. Do they? Yeah. They race ostriches sitting on them
1:46:02
Why do we not? Well, actually, I think people do ride zebras. There was a bloke in Kidderminster when I was growing up
1:46:11
He used to ride a zebra around town. You'd often see him on the A456
1:46:17
Oh, OK, in which case I'm totally wrong. No, I completely made that up
1:46:21
Of course I didn't have a bloke riding a zebra around Kidderminster in the 1970s
1:46:25
I listen to you every day and I trust what you say. Well, I'm not going to abuse that trust by persisting with that lie
1:46:31
The only lie on this programme that I have persisted with, while admitting it was a lie, involves, as you will probably remember
1:46:38
the Earl of Dartmouth and the invention of darts. So, why don't people..
1:46:42
I mean, it's got a very natural history flavour, a tribute, perhaps, belatedly, to Sir David Attenborough's 100th birthday
1:46:48
Why do magpies like shiny things? and why don't people ride zebras? Do you say zebra or zebra
1:46:53
It's birthday on Saturday, so I'd love to board. Oh, all right. Don't be needy
1:46:58
No, don't be needy, but I'll make a note, Jason. I'll make a note. I mean, if it's a good question
1:47:03
it might get into the next edition of the game, that. It's very much game-friendly, that question
1:47:08
Why don't people ride zebras? Because part of the fun of the game is the wrong answers
1:47:12
It's the false. Why do you say zebra? Well, I was going to say zebra
1:47:17
but then I realised that lots of... I'm not quite sure, to be honest. I was playing with the idea of zebra or zebra
1:47:23
I think it's zebra. I mean, it doesn't matter. I mean, it doesn't matter
1:47:28
But I just... You made me think maybe I've got it wrong. But I think I'm going with zebra
1:47:33
Zebra, zebra, let's call the whole thing off. It's coming out to quarter past twelve
1:47:37
Luke's in Bromley. Luke, question or answer? It's a question. We're coming into that season where flies come into the house
1:47:43
and it's very annoying. They're going up and down, round and round. And it's coming to that same part of the season
1:47:47
where the owner of the house ends up running around trying to get the thing out. And what happens is the fly speeds up
1:47:54
Yeah. So I'm just thinking, do flies... My question is, do flies get stressed if they feel anxiety
1:47:59
What is it that causes them to go faster? You know, and including those ones that go round and round
1:48:03
under the lampshade, you know? I mean, there's a lot here. There's a lot to unpack
1:48:08
I mean, the central question is, do flies get stressed? Yeah, and then after a while
1:48:13
they go back to normal speed again. They have two speeds, they have turbo, they have normal. Well, I've always presumed that they fly away
1:48:18
because they think you're a predator, probably correctly, because you're trying to swap them. So they've got, like, antennae
1:48:23
Do they think that, though? Yeah. Do they have time? Yeah. So would that be..
1:48:27
Well, I don't think their nervous system would stretch to being adrenalised, would it
1:48:31
or anything like that. I think it's a great question. It's a weird mystery out of this
1:48:35
Just for the benefit of people tuning in for the first time, it's not just animal-based questions that we do
1:48:41
Natural, well, you're allowed to ask about anything you like, politics, all sorts of weird..
1:48:45
Anything you want. So we've just got magpies, zebras and flies on the board so far
1:48:50
But to destroy... I mean, I don't think their nervous system would be sophisticated enough for emotion
1:48:56
Well, do they need, like, a little couch? Maybe they can go for some, you know... A little bit of R&R
1:49:02
Well, all right, do flies have feelings? That is actually the question
1:49:07
I mean, who's going to be able to answer that? Let's find out. 0345 6060 973
1:49:12
And I think I just, I did Bernie Clifton a great disservice. It was Bernie Clifton that used to bomb around in an ostrich suit, wasn't it
1:49:20
Have I gone mad? Well, I mean, particularly, or madder. Was it Bernie Clifton used to do the London Marathon in an ostrich suit
1:49:27
I don't know where that came from, I'm sorry. James O'Brien on LBC
1:49:32
18 minutes after 12 is the time. Thank you for your good wishes
1:49:37
I didn't realise it was International Tea Day, but I do now. So I accept your greetings and I return them
1:49:47
That's one of those things. We should make a list, shouldn't we, of all the ideas I've had over the years that have come to nothing
1:49:53
Because I reckon, right, that every day is something. International Tea Day, you know, international, I don't know
1:50:01
traffic cone day, every day is something. There's even an International Men's Day
1:50:05
but keep that on the download because it's always funny to spot the misogynists on International Women's Day
1:50:09
going, why isn't there an International Men's Day? International Tea Day today, according to the United Nations
1:50:20
Do you know the earliest initiator and promoter of International Tea Day
1:50:23
was the Chinese scholar Chen Entian? Of course you did. And the resolution to inaugurate International Tea Day
1:50:31
was made on December the 21st, 2019. I drink a lot of tea
1:50:35
You can tell how much tea I drink by the size of my mug. So happy International Tea Day to one and all
1:50:40
Back to Mystery Hour. Chris is in Kingston upon Thames. Chris, question or answer? Hi, James
1:50:46
It's a question. Yes. And, well, before I start, my little girl was absolutely delighted
1:50:55
that you answered her question last time about cats. Good. So, she even got a round of applause
1:51:02
Oh, that's lovely. It certainly was. My question today is why do the Irish Illum pipes have to be played while sitting down
1:51:14
What was the origin of that? Because unlike the Scottish Highland pipes, which can be played while standing or marching
1:51:25
And so you can't play the Illum pipes standing up? No, not open hell
1:51:32
Have you tried? Well... Have you ever ridden a zebra? I've never ridden..
1:51:39
Well, I've ridden horses, but never a zebra. Have you ever met a stressed fly
1:51:45
Oh, loads of them. You always seem quite stressed. How would you spot a fly that wasn't stressed
1:51:50
A non-stressed fly is probably a dead fly. But I digress slightly. I mean, I'm familiar with the Ullum pipes
1:51:56
Ullum pipes. Ullum pipes, yeah. But I guess I just presume that whenever I've encountered or seen someone playing them
1:52:03
they'd chosen to sit down. No, well, you have to have them strapped around your waist
1:52:08
You might be answering your own question now. Maybe, but also strapped around both of your arms. Crikey
1:52:18
I thought, I mean, because you've always thought of the Scottish Highland Pipes, the bagpipe
1:52:22
I mean they both bagpipes aren they technically but the Scottish version that you referred to as a sort of not quite an act of war but you know the pipers leading troops across the glen into battle
1:52:36
It'd be pretty useless if you could only play them sitting down. Well, yeah, exactly
1:52:41
I like that. I don't know, so it's something about the engineering of the Illum pipes that explains why, so that's what we want to know
1:52:47
Why didn't you just ask the last bloke you saw playing them? Well, the last bloke I saw playing was me
1:52:53
Oh. Well, haven't you worked out why you have to sit down to play them
1:52:59
Because I can't play them standing up. But what if it's just you? Well, I would imagine that you usually would see..
1:53:09
What happens if you're playing your Illum pipes and you just sort of stand up
1:53:14
Like that? They'd probably stay on. What do you mean you've never tried it
1:53:19
This is falling apart, Chris. I hope your daughter doesn't listen back to this
1:53:23
it's going to rob her of all her remaining joy at her success on Miss Joao last time
1:53:29
So you're asking why you can't play these pipes standing up, but you do play these pipes and you've never tried standing up
1:53:38
Well, I have tried standing up, but... While playing the pipes. Yeah, well, it's a bit difficult
1:53:43
Yeah, all right. And so my daughter always says, well, if you don't know, ask James
1:53:51
Oh, and now you've made me feel... Yeah, because that is a fairly good mantra for life, actually
1:53:55
If you don't know, ask James. Well, James doesn't know either. But I will do my level best to find out
1:54:01
Why can't you play the Illum Pipes standing up? Oh, three, four, five, six, oh, six, oh, nine, seven
1:54:06
Have you got them with you at the moment, Chris? I have got them set right next to me
1:54:11
but they're not set up at the moment. How long does it take to set them up? Oh, five minutes
1:54:16
Right, I'm going to go to... You're going to set them up. We're going to come back to you shortly
1:54:22
Okay. I mean it. Don't you go letting me down, and if that phone is engaged, you'll be banned from Mystery Hour
1:54:29
We're going to hear the Illum pipes sitting down shortly. We're a bit short of questions
1:54:33
You can probably tell that by the quality of the ones that I've got on air. So there's a call to us. It's just a bit of fun. It's a joke
1:54:40
No offence to Chris or to Luke or to Jason or to Catherine. They're all lovely questions
1:54:45
Lovely, lovely questions. But we have got room for quite a lot more, actually. 0345 6060 973 is the number you need
1:54:52
If you tried to get through and you failed, try again now, because there's a very big churn this hour
1:54:58
It would turn over the calls, because a lot of people ring in and they say, well, we did actually do that last week
1:55:02
Or they ring in and say, well, that's not a proper question. There's no way we'll ever be able to answer that
1:55:06
So don't think that just because you couldn't get through five minutes ago, you wouldn't get through now. Try again, quick. Go on. Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick
1:55:11
Paul's in Cologne. Paul, question or answer? It's an answer, James. Carry on, Paul
1:55:18
It's the answer to whether zebras can be rigid. Or why no one rides one
1:55:24
Yes. Carry on. From seeing this firsthand, you won't be able to stay on one more than about five seconds
1:55:34
According to the horse trainer, they're totally untrainable. Yeah. Ah, so you couldn't tame one
1:55:43
You can't tame one. I think there was a Rothschild who had a carriage that was pulled around by zebras
1:55:50
but that's more feasible than climbing on one. It was probably a different level of taming or training
1:55:56
You could just about harness them up and get them to pull your carriage around
1:56:00
but that's different from climbing on one and riding around the place. Yes, I would think so
1:56:07
I do actually have a friend who has a safari park here in Germany
1:56:11
Yeah, don't we all? Don't we all? And she actually has a zebra horse
1:56:17
So she has a zebra that was bred with a horse It has a stripy face and a white backside
1:56:25
And it lived with its horse family. And they thought it would be quite good if they could get it into their cowboy western show
1:56:33
that they put on with horses. So they tried to train it
1:56:38
Yeah. And they absolutely failed. They tried for years. Even though it was tame, it had only ever lived in captivity
1:56:43
It lived with horses. It saw what other horses did. they said this natural temperament from its evolution
1:56:50
just did not let it be trained. Do you mean, I'm going to give you a round of applause
1:56:56
but it's not necessarily definitive, because it might really hurt. It could be something to do with their vertebrae or their spine, couldn't it
1:57:03
So they'd be perfectly happy to be ridden around the place, but it really hurts, which would also explain..
1:57:09
It could also be that it's a dumb one zebra. Yeah, well, it could just be you had a grumpy zebra
1:57:15
Is it a Hebra or a Zorse? Well, they call it a zebra horse
1:57:21
Well, that's a bit rubbish. That's the bloody Germans for you. They love their compound words, don't they
1:57:25
I'd go for Zorse. Zorse is better than zebra horse. Zorse, it's a Zorse
1:57:30
Better than a Hebra, I think. Zorse. Where was I? That might also be true
1:57:37
Because definitely a lot of people are confirming my Rothschild memory. There was a member of the Rothschild family who was renowned
1:57:43
I think in Tring, it may have been in Tring, I don't know where this information comes from
1:57:48
riding around in a carriage, in a zebra-drawn carriage. So that would add to the anatomical explanation
1:57:55
for why you can't ride a zebra. They can be tamed up to a point, but they can't be ridden
1:57:59
Paul, have a round of applause on me. Thank you very much. What's the most exotic animal your friend has in her safari park
1:58:08
Exotic animal? Oh, now you're asking. I would say she's got a bird-eating spider
1:58:15
which I almost can't look at is it just a horrible looking creature
1:58:19
yes absolutely and of course as you know Paul the Rothschild's carriage had one pony at the front
1:58:26
Tina tells me to guide the others so yet more complications to the zebra based question
1:58:30
and still no answers to the questions about magpies or flies or indeed the illan pipes
1:58:36
on we go on we go Vonda, Vonda, Vonda is in Tintin
1:58:41
in the Y Valley Hi James, nice to speak to you again, it's Vonda
1:58:45
Of course it's Vonda, question or answer Vonda? I have a question James Yes
1:58:50
My kids are eight and nine, they're now at the stage where they're asking questions about everything
1:58:55
and they want to know the answers and my mother-in-law came, oh it's fantastic, it's brilliant
1:58:59
but it also really tests your knowledge Yes it does, but yes of course it does
1:59:03
because I say so Yeah, it doesn't cut the mustard anymore So I have an origin of a phrase question
1:59:10
So my mother-in-law came round and was complaining and saying, oh, the neighbours last night were so loud
1:59:15
they were screaming blue murder. And the kids went, why blue murder
1:59:21
And we all just looked at each other and went, no idea. And I thought, the next time I have got a spare moment
1:59:26
and mystery hour is on, I'll give you a call. I like that question
1:59:30
I'm almost certain we've had it before. If we haven't, my friend Wayne in Basildon
1:59:35
although he's on nights at the moment, so he's probably not listening, he will be reaching for his volume of brewers dictionary of phrase and fable um which he's
1:59:43
not actually allowed to do but he's read the whole thing cover to cover and can remember most of it
1:59:46
so he may well pop up in the next few minutes with an answer to that question if not someone else
1:59:50
surely will the origin of the phrase blue murder and and the reason why vanda referenced that as
1:59:55
an origin of phrase question is because she's obviously old school mystery out you're only a
2:00:00
one origin of phrase question per show. Because for reasons I've never understood
2:00:04
as soon as one person rings in with an origin of phrase question, then unless I make it immediately clear
2:00:09
that we won't be taking any more origin of phrases questions, we get a million other origin of phrases questions
2:00:15
So even on a day like today, when we were a bit short of questions ten minutes ago, but I don't think we are any more
2:00:20
I won't allow any more origin of phrases questions, otherwise we won't have time to do anything else
2:00:25
Are you still with me at the back? A lot of answers coming in. a horsey, with a horsey
2:00:30
what's better, a resource or a horsey what would you call a cross between, it sounds like the first line of a joke
2:00:35
but what would you call a cross between a zebra and a horse I've got nothing
2:00:40
it's coming up to half past twelve, one more quickly John is in Pittston in Buckinghamshire
2:00:44
John, question or answer? question yes so why is it when you go to a nightclub
2:00:51
the bouncer always says it's one in, one out it should be one out, one in
2:00:56
I tell you what you should do you should point that out. Find a really, really big bouncer, John
2:01:02
and then point out to him that he is being syntactically foolish
2:01:07
Tell him that. Say, oi. You know you did the horse joke
2:01:11
Can I give you a joke? Because my daughters will find it very embarrassing
2:01:15
Can I tell you a joke? It's clean. I'll take the first line of the joke
2:01:19
and then I'll decide whether or not I'm going to let you share the post line. Yeah, okay
2:01:23
What do you call a magic dog? Yeah, go on. is that your own
2:01:30
I wish it's amazing it is one of the best jokes ever
2:01:35
I absolutely love it we're not doing jokes either stay there a minute John
2:01:39
so you can't ring in this is the only phoning show in the world where we have more rules about who can't ring in
2:01:43
than we do about who can you can't ring in with origin of phrase questions
2:01:48
and you absolutely categorically can't ring in with any jokes alright that was a special dispensation
2:01:53
for John and John alone I think the answer is going to be linguistic facility, John, isn't it
2:01:59
One in, one out. It trips off the tongue nice. One out, one in. Oh, so does one out, one in
2:02:03
But it's not necessarily chronological either. One in, one out, one out, one in. It doesn't make any sense, does it
2:02:07
Well, it does make sense. You don't go in there and pick someone to leave
2:02:12
You wait till someone leaves and then you... Yeah. It's been bothering me for years
2:02:16
Well, I don't think you're going to end today's programme unbothered, to be honest with you
2:02:20
because I very much doubt there's a formalised or indeed obvious answer to that question
2:02:24
but if there is, we'll do our level best to find it
2:02:28
But promise me, next time you're outside a nightclub, you will point this out to the biggest bouncer you can find
2:02:33
Thank you. Amelia Cox has your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC. It is 12.34 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
2:02:45
Can't call it a horse bra, you ridiculous man, John. That's a completely different thing
2:02:49
Honestly, questions still need answers. Why do magpies like shiny things? Why can't you ride a zebra
2:02:55
We kind of got an answer to that, but it's not necessarily complete. It was entirely emotional, the answer to that
2:03:01
It was character-based. I wonder whether there's an anatomical element. Bad news from Kingston
2:03:08
Chris's barrel is bent. Well, he's bent the pipe. The barrel is bent. He can't play his illim pipes
2:03:13
The stock is bent, so we won't be getting a life. And he was very contrite
2:03:17
This is definitely not a lead-swinging exercise. We still need to know why you can't play the illim pipes standing up
2:03:22
given that they are bagpipes and the Scottish bagpipe you can of course play standing up
2:03:26
Indeed I don't think I've ever seen anyone playing the Scottish bagpipe sitting down. What a strange world we live in
2:03:33
What is the origin of the phrase blue murder and why the bouncers say one in
2:03:40
one out when obviously it should be one out one in. Michael's in Brentwood
2:03:45
Michael question or answer? Question please James. Carry on. Good afternoon. I hope your day's been well
2:03:52
It's going okay. Oh, good. Good. You have a little at your end
2:03:57
Happy International Tea Day, Michael. Happy International Tea Day. Yes, thank you
2:04:01
I'm a bit of a teapot, so it was with joy that I received that
2:04:04
Thank you. Lovely. Carry on. My question is about sand on beaches or sandy beaches or beaches with sand
2:04:12
however you want to put it. On holiday a couple of years ago with family in Cornwall
2:04:18
went to a couple of different beaches, and it struck me that, you know, we'd go to a beach on a Saturday
2:04:24
and quite fine sand, you know, powdery stuff. But then literally the next day we'd go to a different beach
2:04:33
maybe a mile, two miles down the road, and the granularity of the sand was just radically different
2:04:39
you know, no longer looking at kind of powdery, soft sand, but quite coarse, sharp sand
2:04:44
And then again, two, three miles down the road, another beach, there'll be literal pebbles on the beach
2:04:51
Now, I know this is to do with the tide. I know this, but..
2:04:55
Well, not just the tide. Not just the tide. Would the tide not just pick all of the fine sand up
2:05:01
and deposit it on beaches no matter what, no matter where? No. I'm confused by this
2:05:05
What is the actual question? I guess, why do different beaches have different granularities of sand
2:05:13
Is that a summary enough? Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's obvious, though
2:05:19
Well, we... Or not obvious. I mean, it's a bit like asking why different countries have different weather
2:05:27
But it's not like that at all, actually. Sorry. I'm just thinking that it's going to have as much to do with geology
2:05:34
as it is with meteorology, isn't it? I mean, yeah, Bruce knows where I'm coming from
2:05:41
Bruce says it's because they're different beaches. well yeah i mean but i think that's kind of probably close to correct it's because do you
2:05:50
see what i mean it's going to be so if you if you have the sea washing in and out of that bit there
2:05:55
that's made of that rock then you're going to end up with this granularity of sand and if it goes on
2:06:00
for this period of time and that bit fell into the sea and that and then you've got this bit here and
2:06:04
the sea moves slightly differently but it's based on that kind of rock washing in and wash then
2:06:09
you're going to have different, then you're going to have pebbles. I think
2:06:13
So my spouse would agree with both you and, I didn't catch a fella's
2:06:17
name, and she would ridicule me for asking this. Bruce, no, I don't think you
2:06:21
deserve to be ridiculed. It's going to be a combination of... I think there's something
2:06:25
deeper here. I think there's some I don't know, some global plot. There's definitely no global
2:06:31
plot to confuse your holiday. Because you're where you flip-flops on the
2:06:35
pebbly beach and you don't need them on the Sandy Beach. It's gonna be a combination
2:06:39
of rock type and tide. It's gonna be that. But I can't go definitive
2:06:45
because I've just worked that out. And I could conceivably be wrong
2:06:51
So we'll wait for someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about. I..
2:06:55
Yes Yes Yes Yes But I feel I don know I just feel deeply unsatisfied by that answer That why I leaving it on the board That why I leaving it
2:07:06
Just with me... Everyone's a critic. It's on the board. I'm not, I mean, it will be that
2:07:10
and then if you're still deeply unsatisfied with it, then there's nothing I can do to help
2:07:14
Why have you just deleted that message? I just needed to read that out. What... because the stock is bent
2:07:19
The barrel for the stock is bent. Because there'll be some people listening who know a lot about Illum pipes
2:07:25
and they're wondering exactly what's gone wrong with Chris's. And the short answer is the barrel for the stock is bent
2:07:31
I don't know whether there are any Illum pipe stock barrel unbenders in Kingston
2:07:37
but I have to hope so. Thank you, Michael. From Michael to Mary in Leighton
2:07:42
Mary, question or answer? Question, please. Carry on, Mary. Right, you are my last hope
2:07:48
I've asked so many fellas. I've got Obi-Wan Kenobi. how many sorry
2:07:54
how are the commentators at the World Cup going to know every name
2:07:59
of every player like they already do it's a really good question
2:08:04
I mean one way is of course that the names are written on their backs
2:08:08
on their shirts they can't see them from the box no that's very true
2:08:12
the other way the numbers you can see however yep and they will have yep
2:08:19
and they actually work quite hard. I know a couple of commentators and they do quite a lot of research
2:08:24
and in fact, I think they even followed John Motsen around once and did his
2:08:27
pre-game prep. They'll have charts in front of them that not only
2:08:31
are really easy to read, so the minute you see the number, you see the
2:08:35
name of the player in front of you, but there'll also be notes next to it that say
2:08:39
things like, top scorer in the Bundesliga last season or transferred from, so they'll have like
2:08:45
almost a sort of mini-pedia, a mini Wikipedia page attached to each number with the name very easy to read
2:08:53
so that when they're commentating, they are simultaneously consulting their notes. A bit like what I do, Mary, to be honest with you
2:09:02
Don't you ever sit there listening to this thinking, how does he know all that stuff? Yeah, but you've got a lot more time, haven't you
2:09:08
than a commentator sitting in the box. Yeah, but they don't have as much in front of them to deal with
2:09:12
They've only got a maximum of 22 people, and they've prepped it properly
2:09:16
and in that moment they will reach for their note with the number
2:09:21
get the name, and then if the situation allows, they'll throw in a little bit of interesting information as well
2:09:28
Okay, so how do they know how to pronounce them properly? Practice. So they'll check
2:09:33
A, some broadcasters will provide style guides and they'll have a phonetic exposition of the name
2:09:40
So, for example, if you were playing the Turkish team Fenerbahce and you attempted to call it Fener bass
2:09:45
you would check that before you played and you'd go to a pronunciation. The BBC used to have a pronunciation department
2:09:51
Whether or not it still does, I do not know. But that is what you would do. That's why they do proper research
2:09:57
That's a thing. Oh, brilliant. Honestly. Are you happy? You just wait till I see my son now
2:10:04
I have asked so many guys that know this. Nobody knows it
2:10:09
That's what it is. And, I mean, hopefully, I'm not going to take a round of applause, Mary
2:10:13
and my phone lines are quite full and it is already quite late in the hour
2:10:17
but you never know, we might actually get a professional commentator ringing in just to put the cherry on the icing on the cake
2:10:23
That'd be even better. Do you know what? I'm 88 and I used to know every name of every footballer
2:10:28
I was the Bobby Moore era. Really? Yeah, lovely. You've made my day
2:10:33
Oh, well, you've made my day now, Mary, telling me that. Let's try, come on, if anyone's listening
2:10:38
who do I hear from? Bob Ballard sometimes gets in touch with the programme. Clive, he's often on, well, the problem with not being on Twitter anymore
2:10:46
is that you don't have the banter with your fellow blue ticks in your direct messages box
2:10:51
It was one of the ways in which, Clive Tilsley used to get in touch quite, he might be listening, any, any, come on
2:10:57
I mean, it's not just lads either these days, either. Alex Jones, come on, someone give us an answer to the question
2:11:03
how do the football commentators know everything? I mean, they enough got a job on their hands, haven't they
2:11:08
Well, I don't know about that, mate. I've got to deal with, like, millions of people. They've only got to deal with 22
2:11:13
Yeah, but if all your people ring in and they're like me, they just want a straightforward..
2:11:18
Yeah, you're right, actually. You've probably got a harder job than me. That's why they only do 90 minutes instead of the full three hours
2:11:24
Mary, God bless you. Have a lovely day, and let's try and find a proper commentator for Mary
2:11:28
just to close it down completely. Lovely stuff. It's 12.42. Alex is in healing
2:11:33
Alex, question or answer? Question, please, James. Carry on, Alex. Right. I don't know if you watch snooker on TV
2:11:41
Oh, yes, I do. Oh, yes, I do. Okay, so this question has been bugging me for months now
2:11:47
Go on. When a player leans over the table to take their shot
2:11:53
you often see them rhythmically raising and lowering their middle fingers. You do
2:11:59
Have you ever noticed that? I have. So what are they doing and why are they doing it
2:12:06
I think it's the same reason why you stick your tongue out
2:12:10
when you're threading a needle. You stick your tongue out when you're threading a needle
2:12:14
No, you stick your tongue out when you're threading it. No, I certainly don't
2:12:18
When you're putting on mascara, then? I don't put on mascara, either, unsurprisingly
2:12:24
When do you stick your tongue out? Not often, generally. No, all right
2:12:29
When you concentrate on something, you do something that is not directly linked
2:12:34
to the thing that you're concentrating on. To take your mind off what you're actually doing, you think
2:12:40
Yeah, or to shift your focus. Also, rhythm. You know, they could be introducing a bit of rhythm
2:12:45
into the, like, almost subconsciously. Because it's all about rhythm. Doesn't sound very definitive to me, James
2:12:55
No, I'm not taking a... Well, I don't know. Again, I mean, I know a lot of snooker players listen
2:13:00
Well, come on, Ronnie, or Alex, or Judd. Well, Michael Holt I hear from quite a lot
2:13:07
The hitman might be listening today. Any other snooker players? Why do you tap your finger
2:13:12
Why do you do that? Let's find out for Alex. When you said Alex, who did you mean
2:13:19
Who did I mean? Yeah, you just... Alex Higgins. But he's not going to ring in. He's been dead for 20 years
2:13:25
No, he hasn't. And he was playing in the Masters. Alex Higgins
2:13:30
No, John Higgins. No, James, not John Higgins. Are you really going to get all condescending with me
2:13:37
for suggesting that Alex Higgins was not playing in the Masters last week? He was, but in World Championships last week even
2:13:45
Alex Higgins? Yes. Right, alert the newsroom. We've got the biggest story of my life
2:13:50
Seriously. It's 12.45. God bless you, it's 12.45. James O on LBC 12 is the time And just for the avoidance of doubt Alex Higgins is indeed no longer with us He passed away in 2010 so I think that Alex there in Ealing is I don know if he started accidentally watching repeats
2:14:13
Gary's in Calais. Question or answer, Gary? Well, I've got a answer, actually. It's more or less definitive to your zebra one
2:14:19
Go on, then. And they could and were trained as mounted animals
2:14:25
but Germany in the 1890s and 80s, leading up to the First World War
2:14:29
they looked at it riding zebras in preference to horses. Now, there was an issue, and this is the Schutzgruppen and the German colonial military
2:14:39
There was an issue with disease amongst horses coming over from Europe, etc
2:14:45
Mainly the taxi fly, which was cutting swathes of horses away. And they said, let's look at the locals
2:14:52
The local zebra wasn't affected by it. It was also very good in the bush, where it had been there for, obviously, hundreds of thousands of years
2:15:02
So it was aware of predators and could pick up the alarms, etc
2:15:07
So there are lots of photographs of German officers taking these things over jumps
2:15:12
putting displays on with them, and it was seriously, seriously looked at
2:15:16
and they did use them, but there was always a kickback. Because they were actually
2:15:23
that was a good joke, that. Because there was, the problem was, because they were quite skittish
2:15:28
that could be an issue, okay? They couldn't sort of breed that out of them
2:15:32
So they then turned around and said, look, they go to harness very well. The taxi fly thing
2:15:38
that's good as well. We can use them as packed draft animals
2:15:42
which they did but they weren't as hardy as mules but yes they used them
2:15:48
and they rode them but there was a big problem actually using them
2:15:52
for the job they wanted which is a military horse come on to the 20th century
2:15:56
you get the likes of the Rothschilds using them as coach horses
2:16:01
yes I heard about that you got various it was in Tring I think Gary
2:16:06
I'm not sure where it was but you actually do get that well done
2:16:09
but certainly they were looked at in the Germans. If anyone wants to Google
2:16:13
use of zebra German army, prior to the Great War, loads of photographs come up
2:16:18
German officers jumping over, jumps with them and displaying them. Well, you live and learn
2:16:23
I mean, I know the answer to this, but not everybody else will. Qualifications? Military historians
2:16:29
Military historians. Doing battlefield tours, battlefield tours in France and elsewhere, and interested in the German army
2:16:37
So there it is. They were too skittish. to be used by the military
2:16:41
Otherwise, you do see sort of surface performance. Obviously, we see that. But other people thought, yeah, it's a bit odd
2:16:47
It's a bit weird. Get me out there. But yes, they can be. Yes, they were
2:16:51
But not in the environment the Germans really wanted. I love this
2:16:55
It's a brilliant answer, mate. And, of course, I mean, part of it is going to involve evolution
2:16:59
in that the horse has been domesticated by man to do all of the things that horses now do
2:17:05
Well, with a zebra, it's a standing start, isn't it? You're kind of plucking it from the wild
2:17:10
and expecting it to behave in the same way that an animal that's been domesticated for 2,000 years or more would behave
2:17:15
which is... Spot on. Not going to... A round of applause for Gary. Stripe on
2:17:19
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Yeah, not great. Needed work. I mean, my joke at the end, not Gary's contribution
2:17:25
which was characteristically brilliant. Ian's in Stevenage. Ian, question or answer? Answer
2:17:30
Carry on. Right, you were asking why you have to sit down to play the Elon Pypes
2:17:35
Yes. and basically the inland pipes are a more complex instrument than the scottish pipes
2:17:41
so you've got um you can play two octaves and to get the second octave
2:17:49
you need to overblow the reed now with an instrument like say an oboe
2:17:54
you would put pressure on the reed with your lips but because you've got a bagpipe and you've not got
2:18:00
that physical contact with the reed when the instrument was being developed they discovered
2:18:05
that if you closed the chanter up, the melody pipe up, you could compress the air in there
2:18:11
and force it into the second octave. So what you actually do is you put the end of the chanter
2:18:16
on your thigh, on your knee, in order to get that extra pressure
2:18:23
which is why you need to be sitting so your leg's in the right position to do that
2:18:27
Wow, so you could just about play it bent double, but you'd look ridiculous
2:18:31
Yeah, I mean, there are some photographs of busking pipers in olden times who had a sort
2:18:40
of crook that they would put under their legs. So they would keep their leg in a
2:18:45
bent position, but they were sort of standing on something to keep
2:18:50
it in that position, but were effectively standing with their leg propped up
2:18:55
Yeah, got it. So it could be done. But why would you when you could just sit
2:19:00
down? What are your qualifications? I've been playing Eland pipes since the late 1970s
2:19:06
Good Lord. Are you any good? Good enough. Can you give us a go
2:19:11
or not? I can't. I'm actually, I'm visiting family in Stevenage. I live in the States
2:19:17
and so my pipes are in the States at the moment. Well, that's a perfectly reasonable explanation
2:19:21
that I... You don't have any advice for Christy on how he might unbend the barrel
2:19:25
for his stock? Does he need a new barrel, do you think? Probably
2:19:29
Yeah. I mean, once you've bent something, you really need to get the..
2:19:36
You don't want to be undertaking... Either get something new or go to a specialist
2:19:41
An instrument repairer and get it. I mean, how long are you over for? I'm over until the end of next week
2:19:48
And when did you arrive? Tuesday. So you're here for a fortnight, give or take. Yeah
2:19:53
And you turned on the radio and you've heard a question from some bloke you've probably never heard of before asking..
2:19:59
No, I listen to you regularly. Oh, bless you. Okay. No, fair enough
2:20:04
I was just marvelling at the coincidence of you being an Illin Pipe player
2:20:07
and then I was getting one question ever about the Illin Pipes and it coinciding with your two-week visit to the United Kingdom
2:20:13
But it's nice to know you're listening to me back in the States as well. Right. Well, but also my younger brother
2:20:19
had actually tried to phone in for your previous hour and not been called, but he was carrying on listening
2:20:26
So he messaged me and said, Oi, James O'Brien wants to know about Illin Pipes
2:20:30
So one of the family got on. That's lovely. That was absolutely perfect
2:20:36
That's why we do it. Ian, have a round of applause on me and a safe journey home. Oh, that's lovely
2:20:41
What a lovely mischief it's been. 12.54 is the time. Ian's on the Wirral
2:20:46
Ian, question or answer? It's an answer for you, James. Carry on, Ian
2:20:52
It's to do with the football commentators and how they prepare for matches
2:20:56
and know how the players will line up what they will look like and how they will perform in theory Now what you said earlier was absolutely correct but it gets easier and easier for commentators these days
2:21:10
because the Premier League, the FA and FIFA and UEFA send all the commentators a video
2:21:18
as long as you're accredited for the event, of course, and they get all the players to say their names properly
2:21:24
and then you get to see what they look like and how to say their names
2:21:28
and the only problem with that, of course, is if they have a haircut before you see them on the pitch
2:21:33
But it usually works. Nine times out of ten, it'll work. Unless David Beckham, who was cutting his hair
2:21:40
like it was going out of fashion, was pretty recognisable anyway. So you didn't need to worry
2:21:44
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. You obviously make notes on how they run
2:21:48
So much of football is on the TV now. On YouTube, you can watch commentaries in Albanian
2:21:54
So I watched Albanian commentaries to know how to learn Albanian names when I did them
2:22:00
And the other thing is you take your binoculars and watch the players warming up
2:22:04
So if some of them have got different coloured boots or they've got strapping on their knee
2:22:08
that kind of thing, you notice it. So Mary is going to be absolutely beside herself with joy
2:22:13
because you've given her a complaint. And I mean, everyone has worked out what your qualifications are
2:22:18
But the point I was making, not very well, is that it's actually... So some people think my job is three hours a day
2:22:23
and some people thought your job was 90 minutes. It's actually a lot more than that
2:22:29
My job is sometimes three or four days per match, I would say
2:22:33
Exactly. Yeah, you've got to watch the previous games played by the team
2:22:37
So that's 90 minutes of one team and 90 minutes of another team. Sometimes they haven't chosen the same players
2:22:43
So you've got to try and find out about the players that they haven't chosen. Yeah, you have to learn about all kinds of things to do with the crowd figure
2:22:53
and the layout of the stadium, the names of the ends of the ground
2:22:58
This is it. You've absolutely made, you have made Mary's day. I can reassure
2:23:04
So anyway, we need to go through the motions. Qualifications, please. Well, I commentated on five World Cups for the BBC
2:23:11
Yes, that will do. That will do. And when did you hang up your headphones
2:23:17
I hung them up in 2019 when I was doing a game for Talk Sport
2:23:23
Aston Villa against Chelsea. You had no expert. You had to talk all through it on your own
2:23:27
and my voice went horrible like this, and I don't know if I did this anymore
2:23:32
I'm a must-do man. What's your surname, Ian? I should know, but I don't want to..
2:23:38
Ian Brown is my name. Ian Brown, no, I thought so. I didn't mention all the travelling. The travelling takes a toll that nobody takes into account
2:23:44
Well, you're enjoying a well-dressed, although I sense that you're keeping busy
2:23:49
Did you know, Ian, that TalkSport, until quite recently, could boast about having provided the most listened-to speech radio programme
2:23:56
in the history of commercial radio. But it lost its crown. Yeah, I think they've been overtaken
2:24:01
Have they been overtaken? Well, they have. It's a shame we didn't have you here to commentate
2:24:05
Yeah, I did my research. James O'Brien is the year number one
2:24:09
There he is, yes. Thank you very much. Lovely work for Ian. I'll give him a round of applause, all of his own, Ian Brown there
2:24:15
All the details. And that bit was fascinating about them sending out a video
2:24:19
of all the players pronouncing their own name, which Mary is going to be in seventh heaven
2:24:23
with all of that knowledge and information. Top work, Ian, thank you. Last word quickly to Paul in Marlowe
2:24:27
Paul, question or answer? I've got an answer. Go on. I've got John Motsen's crib sheet in front of me
2:24:35
Oh, love it. Did you buy it at an auction? No, I got to know John from work
2:24:40
and he gave it to me. Which game? This is Wednesday, August 23, 2000
2:24:47
Newcastle United against Derby County. all the players are on the left side, right
2:24:52
So it's an A4 piece of paper. So it's got like for number nine, Alan Shearer
2:24:58
And John has written 199 league goals so far. Southampton, 23. Blackburn, 112
2:25:05
Newcastle, 64. And that's about the maximum for each player. But each player has got, you know, three or four lines that John has written down
2:25:14
So I think this is one of the most comprehensive Mystery Hour answers ever
2:25:18
between you and Ian. and Mary has been delivered all of her beyond her wildest, wildest dreams
2:25:24
I'm going to say something to you, Paul, that I should have said to..
2:25:29
Who rang in with the answer to the zebra question? What was his name
2:25:34
It was Paul and Gary. I should have said to Gary in Calais
2:25:38
I should have said, you really earned your stripes. Until I get a round of applause
2:25:43
You did ask me what my qualifications are. Well, you've told us you've got John Motson's crib sheet
2:25:49
Well, even more qualifications. Go on, then. One of the creators of the UEFA Champions League
2:25:55
What, you are? Yeah. Flippin' heck, mate. Have a round of applause
2:26:00
Thank you. That's all right. Can you get me some tickets? I'd trouble getting my own tickets, John
2:26:08
Top man, lovely stuff. Football royalty. And that's it for another day
2:26:12
Who am I going to give the board game to? I don't know. Let's give it to Vanda, because we didn't get an answer for our children's question
2:26:17
I get a bit, um, I don't know what, you know, there's a thin line between chivalry and misogyny
2:26:24
Go on. Do you not think, well, I'd never hold the door open for a man
2:26:27
but I would hold the door open for a woman. I like that. Yeah, I know, but I think I sometimes
2:26:31
I think I may be upsetting the manosphere by, I think I give disproportionate numbers of games to female callers
2:26:38
I wouldn't worry about that. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. I was briefly. Can I say something about commentary before you move on
2:26:43
Yes, you can. Coming up on the outside lane. has just arrived in the studio with some commentary contributions to this conversation
2:26:48
Oh yeah, I mean, horse racing commentary is fantastic. But two that stand out for me of former five live colleagues of mine
2:26:54
Vassos Alexander commentating on diving, Olympic diving. You would think that would be as dull as anything, but he made it so, so good
2:27:03
And then the other fantastic bit of commentary, I was listening to the Wimbledon final when Andy Murray first won
2:27:09
Yes. And Jonathan Overend, who's a fantastic tennis commentator, and the speed of that, you know, in men's singles, tennis is extraordinary
2:27:16
And that moment, just the second before he actually won it, his commentary was what commentary often should be
2:27:25
which is really minimal. Yeah. And I was listening in the car and he just said, very quietly
2:27:30
he just went, here it is. And then the place erupted. Wow
2:27:34
And it was brilliant. Wow. Absolutely brilliant piece of commentary. It's been like playing a concert piano, just getting out a little note
2:27:40
Absolutely right. Yeah. Oh, lovely stuff. If you missed any of today's show, you can listen back on our free global player app or the LBC app
2:27:47
where you can also stay up to date with all the latest news, videos and opinions. You can listen to a range of podcasts, including mine
2:27:53
So do download the official LBC app for free from your app store now. Tom Swarbrick will be with you at four on LBC, but now it's time for Sheila Vogelty
2:28:00
James O'Brien on LBC
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