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Britain is facing a growing wildfire crisis, and the debate has become increasingly heated. James Hanson asks if people who start wildfires through disposable barbecues, cigarettes or reckless behaviour should face prison?
00:00 | Jackie says offenders should be jailed
04:25 | David can smell barbecues everywhere despite the emergency alert
05:40 | Keiran says the danger is not limited to disposable barbecues
09:30 | David wants disposable barbecues permanently banned
13:28 | Ex-firefighter David describes his experience of wildfires in Australia
18:24 | Alex doesn't think prison is the answer
23:04 | Tommy is disturbed by people's selfishness and lack of concern
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0:00
Ian messages to say, James, the alert that we had this evening is a great idea, but it should have been sent out weeks ago
0:06
Claire says, hi, James, we should have had this alert four weeks ago when Dunwich Heath went up
0:12
We should have banned barbecues, cigarettes near open land and even glass discarded bottles that can cause fires
0:20
And David in Sunderland says, James, I'm currently camping in North Allerton and all I can smell is barbecues
0:27
Yet to be seen if people's fire pits get lit, but I heard all the alerts go off on people's phones
0:33
Surely it is not worth the risk. 0345 6060 973 is the number
0:38
Jackie is in Cheltenham. Evening, Jackie. What would you like to say? Evening. Evening
0:44
Yeah, what I want to say is that anybody who discards a cigarette butt
0:48
or is using disposable barbecue and a fire has started, then I'm afraid they should be put in prison
0:57
Give them a prison sentence. Because I think it would help teach others that this is not acceptable
1:04
How long would you put them away for? I don't know. I haven't got a clue
1:08
A couple of years, maybe, just a week. But, I mean, I suppose the problem is
1:13
I mean, what's been in the news the last ten days? The fact that the prisons are full and we're having to release them early
1:17
Well, find some way to put them there. Find some way to put them
1:21
But you think it should be a custodial offence, even accidentally? Accidentally, no
1:28
But people know I've been told not to use disposable barbecues. But it's a form of, you could argue, it's a form of kind of criminal negligence
1:40
If you have been told by the government, we've all had this alert onto our phone
1:45
if you've been told don't use one of these disposable barbecues and you do it anyway, ignorance of the law is no excuse
1:50
and for me you should face very very severe consequences even if you just by accident trigger a fire
1:57
I totally agree and I'm doing terrified because I live in a block of four flats
2:01
so I go at my communal door to the left we've got a green
2:05
well it's all tinder dry and all around our block we've got a green
2:10
so it's all tinder dry and I am absolutely terrified that we're going to have fire
2:16
that somebody's going to accidentally drop a cigarette and I am absolutely terrified
2:22
and it's actually affecting my mental health and I just can't relax
2:28
I'm not sleeping at night. Really? Specifically, the concern about wildfires is affecting your mental health
2:33
and stopping you sleeping at night? Yeah, because I live in a block of flats and we've got green all the way around our flats
2:40
and it's not fenced off and people walk dogs and stuff. They walk around it
2:46
and it does terrify me. And do you see people being irresponsible
2:53
Do you see people using disposable barbecues or not disposing of their cigarettes correctly
2:57
No, no, I haven't at the moment. But I just, you know, anybody could walk around
3:04
especially like at night, coming home from the pub and they're drunk or something, you know
3:08
Yeah. You know, it just terrified me. I'm not sleeping at night. It's having an effect on my mental health
3:14
And it's probably having an effect on a lot of people's mental health. Well, and sadly, I think it's unless we get a grip on this as a country, unless we actually come to terms with this and realise there is a personal responsibility on each of us to be careful, to be cautious, to understand the risks of fire
3:29
I mean, you know, when you're at school, you get taught about sort of basic fire risk, don't you
3:34
You get taught about, well, don't leave a candle, you know, flickering near a curtain and all this kind of, you know, we get taught this
3:41
do we also need to include basic education about outdoor fires about wildfires i think maybe we do
3:47
jackie thank you jackie in cheltenham there 03456060973 is the number to call julian
3:54
bracknell messages to say uh james i can tell you which muppets are lighting uh fireworks because i
3:59
was watching the european athletics in birmingham last night and they let off fireworks in the
4:03
stadium for winning a running race is that true did that happen if so i struggle to see why in
4:09
the west midlands of all places where very nearby we're not too far away in stourbridge those poor
4:13
people are dealing with wildfires raging how on earth that can be allowed albert in croydon says
4:19
hi james people who start fires directly or otherwise should be made to visit a burns unit
4:22
to see the damage it causes or spend the day with the fire brigade david is in north allison now david
4:28
you are camping currently what can you smell just lots and lots of barbecues and i heard the alert
4:36
go out and haven't read them because there's plenty of bar. Yeah
4:42
And are these disposable barbecues? To be honest, I can't get me out of them
4:48
But I just don't think it's worth it at the minute with the alert going out
4:52
and the way I feel it's tinned or dry. Is it really worth it for a few burned sausages
4:57
So, I mean, well, I clearly don't think it is, and I don't think those people should be lighting barbecues
5:02
if they're disposable ones, but why do you think people don't take any notice
5:06
I think it's not just the British thing. Sometimes somebody tells you not to do something
5:11
but they do it anyway. Yeah. So what do you think the penalty should be
5:16
Because, I mean, if, God forbid, you know, you're camping, let's say you wake up in the middle of the night
5:20
and suddenly there's a wildfire raging because one of those Muppets was, you know
5:24
had used a disposable barbecue, what penalty should they face? Well, I think it could potentially be something hefty
5:31
I mean, I'm here with my five-year-old daughter and my dogs. I don't want to wake up to my tent, like, you know
5:36
potentially on fire. What price do you put on someone's life? Do you know what I mean
5:42
No, completely, completely. Well, David, thank you. David in North Allerton there
5:45
Let's go to Kieran in Dover. Evening to you, Kieran. What would you like to say
5:50
Well, simply, you know, that it's not just disposable. It's portable ones as well that are very easily, you know
6:01
taken out to any part of the UK and where I am in Kent we in a very very barren parched land at the moment
6:15
And, you know, it is a worry, a real worry. And if it does, you know, if someone's using one of these barbecues, it triggers a wildfire
6:23
what should the consequences be for them? Well, I mean, common sense tells you that ideally they wouldn't even take them out
6:34
I mean, you know, the state of the country at the moment, I mean, where we are in very, very, you know, cornfields that have all been harvested and it is absolutely barren
6:48
And I've got trees around me and very, very dried out fencing that's linking my property to a very, very potentially incendiary conditions
7:14
The whole thing can just go up. all you need is somebody, whether it's a barbecue or a cigarette or whatever
7:21
it could all just go up. Well, indeed. I mean, this is the concern
7:26
I mean, we had Jackie in Cheltenham on a few minutes ago saying that she's losing sleep over this because she's really concerned
7:32
She's in a block of flats. There's dry land nearby. She's really concerned that something terrible could happen
7:38
if people were being irresponsible. Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, in terms of what the penalties are and whatever else, I mean, that's for somebody else to think about
7:52
But, I mean, common sense, you know, I mean, back in the old days, you know, you had all sorts of warnings on television
8:03
whether it was the Green Cross Code or wherever it was, you know, that things were, you know, advised to you
8:10
about how you should behave and the way things are at the moment
8:16
I mean, you know, where we are, I can see bales and bales of hay
8:22
piled up on each other, on themselves, massive great piles of hay that if you've got the wrong mindset
8:35
you know some some vandals whatever you want to call them could go along and
8:42
just think it's all a big laugh and was this set it alight you know and and
8:47
that's unfortunately the situation that we're in we've got so many people that
8:52
are, you know, without any anything else to do in their lives, but other than to go around
9:01
disturbing the peace, disturbing people, whether it's on motorbikes, you know, battery powered
9:13
scooters and all the rest of it that are disturbing people. And, you know, and they don't care
9:19
I really don't care. And it's that point about people not caring
9:23
that I simply cannot get my head around. Why on earth would you not care about the risk of wildfires
9:29
that would threaten your entire community? Kieran, thank you. Surely we should know by now
9:34
not to use a disposable barbecue in these conditions, to be incredibly cautious about the disposal of any cigarettes
9:41
and yet you still hear cases of people who seemingly don't know the basics
9:48
03456060973 is the number. Kevin in Luton, who says he's been a firefighter for 25 plus years, says, let's not paint the country in a negative way and assume the fires that deliberate broken glass can easily cause them
10:00
The New Forest fire was an accidental van fire that spread. It wasn't malicious
10:05
Yeah, of course, of course, Kev, they can start accidentally, but sometimes they start accidentally because of human behaviour, behaviour that we should be able to warn against
10:13
And sometimes, and I never understand it, but sometimes it is arson
10:17
Got a message here from Rick who says we've got fires local to us in Cannock Chase that are suspected arson, as are many others
10:24
Banning barbecues won't stop deliberate fires starting. And Steve says, James, people need to be educated about outdoor leisure activities that involve lighting fires
10:33
The Australian landscape is very dry and arid, but they seem to manage it
10:37
David is in Newcastle. Good evening, David. What's your take on this one? Hi, how are you doing? First of all, I'd like to offer my condolences to the family of Jason Hardy
10:46
you. That's horrendous. It is horrendous news, absolutely. That's death by social media. Hammered
10:52
into the ground, poor man. No, it's horrendous news, and I think, well
10:59
there'll be lots of coverage of it. We're going to keep the coverage of that coming here
11:03
on LBC, but on these wildfires, David... My point on barbecues is the ban should be
11:08
permanent. If you have a look at the stats of how many people
11:12
have burnt feet, severely burnt feet on beaches, because people are too lazy to put the barbecue out with seawater
11:22
which is right next to them. They just bury them. They stay burning for hours and hours and hours
11:26
And some poor, hapless person walks along, stands on top of it, and immediately burns their feet
11:32
So it's sort of selfishness in a way. Laziness. Laziness, yeah. Laziness
11:38
Well, laziness sometimes can be selfishness, I suppose. But yeah. And what should the penalties be then
11:43
I mean, let's say I decide I want to go down to my local park. tomorrow, it's going to be glorious sunshine
11:49
and I decide I want to go to my local park with a disposable barbecue, what penalty should I face
11:55
Well, if it was me personally, which is that's my nature, and I was walking down by the Sadie View with a one and a half litre bottle of water
12:01
I just poured on the barbecue. Yeah. Well, yes. And do you know what? I think you would be within your rights
12:08
I think, you know, we had a quarter a moment ago, who's in North Allerton, I think, at a campsite
12:13
and there are people with their barbecues out Now if those are the disposable barbecues that have now been banned absolutely I think he within his rights to go round pouring water on them Most definitely
12:24
Yeah. Another thing is with all these wildfires, we've had a lot this year, granted
12:30
But last year, I believe Saddleworth Moor was on fire for days and days and days
12:35
Yes. And there was lots of other fires around the country in Scotland and wherever last year
12:40
That's just, I think there was one before that. why did the government not say
12:45
well okay, let's lease one of these planes that scoops up water from another country
12:51
they just did nothing, we haven't got one there's nothing in the country
12:55
that can do anything about those fires but surely if you've got a big plane
12:59
that can scoop up thousands of gallons of water we're an island, so it's not very far
13:03
to fly Yeah, well this is where it comes back to what do we need to do collectively to better prepare
13:09
what does the government need to do what infrastructure needs to be put in place, what wildfire mitigation needs to be put in place
13:17
And then, of course, there's the point about what do each of us need to learn, or some of us need to learn, about being responsible
13:24
Stour Bridge in the West Midlands continues to be ravaged by wildfires. The Prime Minister has announced a ban on disposable barbecues
13:31
What should happen to the idiots who start wildfires? 03456060973 is the number
13:38
David is in Salisbury. Good evening, David. What do you reckon? Yeah, so I think it was one of the people that came on earlier that talked about Australia
13:47
I lived there for a number of years, over 15 years, and we had fire danger ratings
13:54
so depending on how hot and dry it was, the rating would go up
13:58
And then when it got to a certain point, there'd typically be a total fire ban, so that would
14:03
include barbecues, not that many people in Australia would use old barbecues out in the
14:09
bushfires and hot works as well. So things like using grinders. And there was a case where an off-duty police officer
14:16
in Western Australia, a number of years back, set off a rather large bushfire using a grinder
14:22
I think it was like 71 homes got destroyed. And, yeah, it varies state to state
14:29
but basically if you breach the total fire ban during that period, then there's significant fines
14:37
for over like $10,000, and even penalties have gone into the prison
14:41
for like 15, 25 years, depending on the damage that's done and such lives are lost as well
14:49
So the precedent is there in Australia. We've been doing it for years and years and forever
14:54
which needs to, as we did with the social media ban for kids
14:58
go from the board in Australia. Yes, where Australia leads, we follow maybe. And I think it's a psychological change, isn't it, David
15:04
because Australia, everyone thinks of as a hot country. And I think historically we don't think of Britain as a hot country
15:10
We think of it as a mild country that has a bit of hot weather sometimes in the summer
15:15
But realistically, we are now a hot country. This is the fifth heatwave of the summer
15:20
Yeah, it's been quite interesting moving back here and being sort of attitudes to how people are sort of getting upset about barbecue bands
15:28
and people are upset about having to conserve water. that's just something that in Australia is
15:35
yeah, just the way of life really but we certainly wouldn't have emergency alerts
15:41
sent out to tell us not to light fires I've been seeing on social media already
15:47
on TikTok and Facebook people are putting out instructions now on how to turn off the emergency alerts
15:53
so I don't think this is a good thing Oh really, they're trying to switch
15:56
oh for goodness sake, why? I mean, I know there's a question about
16:01
whether it's, you know, whether it's always needed. But they use them quite sparingly
16:07
I can only think of maybe two or three of these alerts. One was a test, and then I'm trying to think
16:12
was there another one once, and now this? I think they should really only, my thought is they should only really be used for
16:19
living in Australia, we'd only get those if there was a bushfire
16:23
like rolling down the hill heading towards your house. not for you know, not for common sense
16:30
stuff of don't like a barbecue but I'm sure we'll probably be having the same conversation in 12 months
16:36
time when the government hasn't changed the rules or done anything but yeah, I don't think that was a good use of the emergency alert
16:42
system. Yeah, and why do you think a lot of people still seemingly
16:46
don't realise the risks of for example disposable barbecues because to me it's common sense and I think
16:52
I'd like to think to most people it's common sense and yet clearly there's lots of people who are carrying on regardless
16:57
Yeah, and obviously the recent Clacton bio-lecturers tell us that there's not many people with common sense
17:03
So I think that's potentially why we need this education. In Australia, it's something that's just a way of life
17:12
We all know it. We're educated out in schools. Maybe that's what we need here, more education on it
17:19
and more resources for the firefighters. I don't know how many areas..
17:24
That's such a good point, isn't it? Because you often hear, well, the police need more money
17:27
or the NHS needs more money. You very rarely hear, let's spend more on our fire service
17:33
Well, they're actually cutting the fire service, particularly in Roch. I know there's been a few stations that they were trying to close
17:40
Also, obviously, right now it's winter in Australia, so you've got loads of resources over there
17:47
loads of bush firefighters as well that could probably come over and give the UK service
17:52
a bit of guidance on how to actually fight these considering. You know, you'll get a few hundred bushfires
17:58
in each state in Australia every year that they'll manage and deal with
18:04
And, yeah, maybe we should be getting those over to help. I know they go over to America often to help with wildfires there
18:11
So, let's go to Australia. Yeah, some really interesting points you raised
18:14
Thank you so much, David. David in Salisbury there. Steve messages to say, Evening, James
18:18
The alert on my phone was so loud, it made me jump and knock over my disposable
18:22
barbecue. Very good. Alex is in Beaconsfield Evening Alex What would you like to say Hi James How are you sir Yeah good thank you Yeah I just been listening to driving up from Devon up to Buckinghamshire and I had to pull over just to kind of say my piece really
18:37
I think a lot of these people that are talking about prison sentences
18:42
I think it's a lot of old rubbish. I think, you know, the amount of it
18:46
like a lot of callers have said, it's common sense. I think a lot of people
18:51
if they're found guilty to set up a wellfire, They should be fined, you know, £1,000, £2,000
18:57
Is that enough, though? I mean, if, God forbid, it's a wildfire that spirals completely out of control
19:02
burns down people's homes, puts lives at risk, is a £1,000 fine really enough
19:09
I get that argument, but I also feel like, you know, the fact that we've been talking for weeks on weeks now about prison sentences
19:15
and the fact that the prison service is stretched to capacity as it is
19:19
I feel like you know, doing putting people, if it was setting fire to a
19:27
you know, you can imagine to a certain extent if you go into prison
19:31
and I'm just, you know, hypothetically speaking if you go into prison, oh what did you do
19:36
Oh I, you know, murdered somebody, what did you do? Oh I set fire to a farm. You know, you're going to look like an idiot. You know, it's more a case of
19:42
find somebody make them pay for the crimes that they've done for monetary value to repay the society back and economy back to society and do that
19:55
I think the prison service should be for the most serious offences
20:00
not necessarily for... Yeah, but there's gradations, aren't there, as with everything
20:05
I mean, if you deliberately start a wildfire, which sadly does happen, then I think you should face very, very severe consequences
20:12
because that is arson and if it leads to a loss of life, that is unforgivable
20:17
100%. If, for example, this weekend, the weather's going to be nice
20:21
people will be tempted to have a barbecue, and you can have a barbecue if you've got a permanent one in your back garden or whatever
20:27
but if you buy one of these disposable ones, having been told by an alert from the UK government on your phone not to
20:35
with a temporary ban having been implemented, if you decide to go down to your local park, you have a barbecue
20:42
that causes a wildfire, and that then leads to people's homes being destroyed
20:46
and potentially lives being lost, I just don't think a £1,000 fine is enough
20:51
Well, maybe, obviously, a £1,000 was just a shot-in-the-dark figure. But you wouldn't put that person in prison
20:59
Even if it was... Because at what point do we go? That's kind of manslaughter
21:03
You're not doing it intentionally. I agree. If it was loss of life, manslaughter, then, yeah, I agree
21:08
But similar to your previous colleague who lived in Australia, I did 18 months in Australia on a working holiday visa years ago
21:15
and I agree. They have permanent barbecue stations at the beaches where you can pay $20 and you get used to the barbecue for X amount of hours and do it in a public setting where it's safe and it's regulated and it's secure
21:31
I agree, given the current heat, where disposal barbecue should be banned
21:36
and I think people who don't listen to those rules, I mean, the alert definitely went off in my phone whilst I was driving
21:46
It's kind of a living hell out of me. Yeah, I'm not surprised. It went off just as I was about to go on air
21:51
and I thought, oh, my, I thought it was like some kind of studio alert system. I didn't realise it was coming from a phone
21:55
Generally, I thought it was my car breaking down because we weren't aware of this alert going out like we did before
22:02
We had a previous alert going, you know, at 5 o'clock on Thursday, this alert's going to go out to test, you know, your phones, etc., the government system
22:09
We had no knowledge of it, so I thought generally my car was going to break down because I had both my work phone and my personal phone blaring at the same time
22:18
and I thought my car was knackering in. So it scared the living hell out of me, that's for sure. Yes
22:25
But I think from a perspective of prison time, if it amounts to a loss of life, 100%
22:33
However, if it amounts to, you know, I just think if it amounts to the prison services absolutely stretch to the neck
22:43
Yeah, you're right. You're right. But ultimately, if you are foolish enough to use a disposable barbecue this weekend
22:50
you are equally foolish and reckless regardless of whether you are lucky enough for it not to start a wildfire
22:57
or if you're unlucky enough for it to start a wildfire. it's the same level of irresponsibility, is it not, regardless of the consequence
23:04
So, look, it's a difficult one. But Alex, appreciate the call. Thank you. Let's go to Tommy in Luton
23:08
Evening, Tommy. Are people being idiots near you? Yes, absolutely. Fireworks going off past 012am in this, in this, where it's parched
23:21
which just explains everyone's stupidity and no one cares about anyone else around them
23:27
Why are they letting off fireworks? Now? After midnight? Or celebrations in the town in Luton
23:36
Even though it's one of the driest summers we can ever remember? Literally, I went running down to fireworks display
23:45
1am in the morning, and the police were there. And I saw all the police were there, so I left
23:53
And spotted Luton for posting about it, and it turned out the police just smiled and wished them luck and went away
24:01
Well, if it's past midnight, I imagine that is against various kind of noise complaint laws as well anyway
24:07
It's thoroughly antisocial, leaving aside the risk of wildfires, yeah. So it's just selfishness. That's all it is
24:15
You know, people don't care about anyone else anymore. Yeah, no. It's not often to mention..
24:21
Yeah, go on, Tommy. He's picked up loads of water and, you know, how rich people's houses are
24:28
God bless him. This garden is perfectly green. Seems like there's one rule for one and one rule for another
24:37
Yeah, well, you may well be right
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