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"We could lose the Labour Party,' fears John McDonnell after local election devastation
May 8, 2026
Labour MP and former Chancellor John McDonnell is devastated by Labour's local election performance. Speaking to LBC's Lewis Goodall, the storied Labour politician said: "it looks disastrous". "I'm worried, because we're being hit on all sides. We're being hit by Reform [...] but also, on all the analysis we've done, we're being hit by losing progressive votes as well," he said. But worse than that, Mr McDonnell feels the damage could be 'existential' - as the grassroots of the party get pulled up. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #ukpolitics #lewisgoodall #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
This is something new, isn't it
0:01
Yes, it is. It is. From a Labour perspective, it's looking pretty grim
0:07
We'll see what the results are like tomorrow. But it looks disastrous
0:13
London is tomorrow. I'm a London MP. Usually, London will give us a bit of a silver lining
0:20
And I'm hoping that's going to be the case this time. But I'm worried because we're being hit on all sides
0:26
We're being hit by reform in some areas, as you've seen so far, and it's been pretty horrendous
0:32
But also, on all the ysis that we've done, we're being hit by losing progressive votes as well
0:39
So we'd be hit by the Greens and others as well. There was the Persuasion UK, the polling group, did a report they published, I think it was done yesterday
0:48
and they were saying for every 10 Labour defectors to reform, we're losing 16 to Lib Dems, Greens and others
0:59
So my worry is... Leading on every side. Yeah, and my worry is that I'm hoping London can help turn this around
1:06
but my worry now is that that won't happen because that's been a pattern in the past sometimes when it's been..
1:12
The other thing as well, we'll see what comes out of Wales and Scotland
1:16
I actually think the Wales and Scottish results might be more influential than the English Council election
1:22
especially if we come third in Wales. I don't think we're going to come third in Scotland, although some people are predicting
1:28
I think we might just come a very bad second. And again, that really knocks the confidence out of the party
1:33
Well, of course, I mean, Wales, birthplace of the Labour Party in so many ways
1:37
but also won every election in Wales for a century. Yeah, every time. And again, there's even a risk to the leader of the Welsh Labour Party's seat as well
1:46
Yes, yes, yes. What are the voters telling you, John? What I get, I do the Labour pitch about what we've done
1:57
And you can get some element of, yeah, OK, you've done that, fine
2:04
But then what happens is I get quoted to me the series of mistakes we've made
2:09
So I get winter fuel allowance. Two-child limit in a constituency like mine as well
2:15
We then get the attack on disability benefits. Gaza is still hanging over as well, but then you get Mandelson, and it's like an explosion
2:24
The animosity, and I don't say this lightly, the animosity towards Keir on the doorstep is beyond anything I've ever experienced
2:33
Now, I thought, is that just me? Is that him? But again, in The Guardian today, there was the report that they gave to the Labour Party, which emphasised that level of animosity
2:45
Sometimes that influences everything. So you can't get past that to get on to a more wider discussion
2:53
Why do you think it is? Why do you think it is this animosity has arisen about the prime minister
2:57
People just feel let down. Keir came about with, you know, this argument about change
3:05
And the problem that people have seen from the beginning is either no change or change in the wrong direction
3:10
So the changes that we made I go on about the employment rights legislation the Renters Reform Bill that sort of thing that get overlaid And I even get the response on the doorstep about well he took all those free spectacle suits and all that sort of thing And it almost as though they saying
3:28
you promised this change, but you're no different from what Johnson did. That's unfair, but that's the reality of we have to tackle
3:35
But you know what you will hear. Assuming the Prime Minister goes on to next week and the next Parliamentary Labour Party meeting
3:39
you know what he'll say, John McDonough. He'll say, and I've already heard it in the studio tonight
3:44
you'll have heard it, look, let's not lose our heads. Yes, these are bad. Obviously, they're very bad results
3:49
But in the era that we're in, in this really politically volatile era that we're in, perhaps that's not surprising
3:54
And what we mustn't do is lose our heads and panic. Well, it's not about panicking. It's making sure that we have a proper ysis and a proper debate and discussion
4:07
We need to have an understanding about why we've lost the support that we have
4:13
and it's because we've alienated section after section of our support by those mistakes that we've made
4:19
and therefore we need to understand why have we made those mistakes. My view, and this is why we need a proper debate about it
4:25
my view is that actually the old broad church of the Labour Party is not working
4:31
So the broad church is that the Labour Party was founded on left, right and centre
4:34
come together, you have an honest debate and discussion and you stand up and whatever section of the party you're in
4:40
you can stand up and say, I think you're wrong on that one. what's happened is when some of us have done that
4:46
take the two-channel limit what happened, I lost the whip and I lost the whip for a year
4:51
and the party did it anyway yeah, that's right weird position for you
4:56
that's the sort of level of debate that we have to have
5:00
you've talked about the animosity that the voters you say feel towards the Prime Minister
5:05
well it's not just me no, but you've experienced it yeah, absolutely
5:09
therefore, is it recoverable for the Prime Minister? Can he recover it
5:14
I'm not sure. I think that's part of the debate. So if we're going to have an ysis of this election
5:19
I think we have to have that debate and discussion to see whether it is. I think Keir needs to make up his own mind as well
5:24
or whether he thinks it's recoverable. So in the debate we're going to have
5:28
the leadership action issue has to go onto that agenda as well. Do you personally believe that he should resign as Labour Party leader
5:35
I do not... Let's take this step by step. I do not want a precipitous coup or anything like that
5:44
where streeting and you rain. The last thing we want is that sort of thing to happen
5:49
I want a proper discussion, a proper post-mortem on how we've gotten this disaster of elections
5:55
I want to know what changes can be brought about, particularly how we make our decisions
6:01
democracy in the party, end the sort of factionism that's been dominating this recent period
6:06
And I want a discussion about the leadership. At the moment, if the results are as bad as this
6:12
we're looking at the moment, it's very difficult to see him taking us into the next election
6:18
You don't think he should? Well, I think we need to have that conversation. I'm not hedging this
6:22
I think Keir himself... I've worked with Keir. We didn't share a cabinet together
6:26
He's a responsible person. He needs to ask himself, am I the right person now? Ideally, would you like to see him lay out a timetable
6:35
You don't want anything too precipitous, but you think that the timetable for his future you'd like to hear him say
6:40
Two things I like him to lay out a timetable about how we have the debate about the future and yes the discussion about his own position and that might result in an orderly transition to a new leadership
6:54
but it can't be a leadership based upon the democratic system that we have at the moment
6:59
which excludes a range of candidates coming forward so yeah I want to see a proper debate
7:04
and discussion let's let's talk to our members let our members decide some of this um do you
7:09
think that, I mean, Carl's on the table, John. You want Andy Byrne back in Parliament
7:13
don't you? I have not been a supporter of Andy Byrne, personally
7:17
I've not come out in support of him, but I resented the fact that he got blocked
7:21
last time round. And if we are going to have a leadership debate, discussion
7:28
whatever, and we're going to have a leadership election of some sort, I want
7:31
every opportunity for a broad range of candidates. And to block Andy that way, I think, was, I think
7:37
He actually damaged care rather than strengthened his position. Let's imagine that a vacancy were to arise in the near future
7:44
and Andy Burnham were to say, I want to stand again, and presumably he does because he tried to stand last time
7:49
I've put it to multiple ministers, Labour Party chair, others tonight, about that possibility, and they all reject it
7:57
They all say he must continue doing what he's doing and being Mayor of Manchester. If that were to repeat itself, as we saw in Gorton
8:04
what do you think the reaction within the Labour Party would be? If they blocked... Look, there was a reaction already when Andy was blocked last time
8:10
We're seeing it as unfair. And I think as a result of that, we lost support. And I think we lost membership as well
8:15
People were so disillusioned. If it happens again that Andy wants to stand in a parliamentary seat and they blocked him again
8:23
I think there'll be outrage within the party. And it's not the way for Keir to behave, really
8:30
If he's blocking people because he's worried about them challenging him, that doesn't demonstrate strength, that demonstrates weakness
8:37
Do you think it would be such outrage that it actually might precipitate a leadership challenge? I think it would make Keir vulnerable to a challenge, of course it would
8:43
but I'm hoping we can have a rational discussion rather than, as I say, I don't want coups or anything like that
8:49
We could unite the party, you know, but Keir's got a problem, an issue of what role he plays
8:55
in uniting the party. Can I give you a stat that will, I think, make you feel uncomfortable, John
8:59
I don't want to depress you just as about to head off to bed. But this is according to Labour List
9:03
As of 3am, 14 minutes ago, Labour has so far lost 83% of its sitting councillors that have been announced so far
9:11
I just feel for them. I've been a councillor. And what really annoys councillors, you can understand, they work so hard
9:20
They do the best they can. They represent their community and then they get wiped out
9:25
Not because of anything they've done, national politics or other. So there's a lot of people out there
9:29
I just want to say thank you for your service and I'm sorry this has happened to you
9:33
This is a nightmare. It's my worst nightmare, actually, in terms of politics this year
9:38
Your worst nightmare? Electrally, it is, yeah. Because we lose our base to win elections
9:45
Worse than 2019? Oh, yeah, I think so. In terms of, look, we got hammered then, and I was part of that
9:53
But we thought, well, we'll pick ourselves up. I supported Becky Long-Bailey to be leader
9:58
She didn't get it. Keir got it. And I said, he's democratically elected
10:02
therefore give this man his chance and all the rest of it. We win that election on the basis of promising change Now the level of disillusionment means this isn just a risk to losing a Labour government We could lose the Labour Party
10:17
Now that sounds like an exaggeration, but if you look at what's happening to us, we're losing our base within the community
10:23
Our membership has dropped at least by half. The people who are going out and working on the ground
10:29
are no longer there. Once you start losing that grassroots base of your organisation and structure
10:36
You're threatened in your very existence. And the Prime Minister has hinted and said that he's going to come out fighting
10:42
He's going to put forward a King's speech, which he said is going to have new proposals in it
10:46
We've also heard a suggestion that he might use it as a moment to pivot to closer relations to the EU
10:55
Do you think any of that would cut it? The issue for most people is cost of living
11:01
it's about whether they can have decent wages whether they can actually afford to live a decent quality of life
11:09
so that's about prices and it's also about actually having a belief and hope for the future
11:17
I think the problem that there is now is that there's a disenchantment on a scale
11:24
that whatever Keir says now lacks credibility that's the problem he's got
11:30
And I think he needs to think that hard about that himself. And you have some experience of Keir Starmer being in the shallow cabinet
11:37
He was pushing for remain at that time. Given the sort of seats or the sort of councils
11:42
the sort of parts of the country, which are heavy Brexit voting, is this a moment to pivot towards closer relations to the EU
11:50
I think there's a strong argument economically that what we need to do is, yeah, we need to re-establish a relationship with the EU
11:56
that's more constructive than it is now. but it will have political consequence
12:00
so we have to accept that. The issue for me is this I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself
12:06
on all the ysis for every 10 votes we lose to reform
12:12
we lose 16 to left parties the Greens, the Lib Dems and others
12:17
that comes from Persuasion UK there's some on the Brexit issue that are beyond our reach now
12:24
that will never come back there'll be others that we can win the argument
12:28
and it might well be about not returning to the EU, but actually ensuring that we have a closer relationship
12:33
that has an economic impact on their living standards. But with others, the pitch that we have to have
12:39
is to bring back that progressive vote that we've lost in this recent period
12:44
And that is about cost of living, but it's also about other issues like climate change
12:48
and issues like Gaza as well. Just finally, Nigel Farage, just being told now
12:52
has told reporters at his party's Milbank headquarters just down the road from here
12:56
that the results have so far exceeded his expectations. He said, I think what you're witnessing
13:00
is an historic change in British politics. Forget left-right, there is no more left-right
13:06
It's gone, it's out the window, it's finished. We are way exceeding anything that I thought
13:12
The question for Keir is, does he want to be the Labour leader
13:16
that opens the door to Nigel Farage? I don't think he does
13:21
So therefore we've got to have quite radical change, and that might be a radical change in terms of
13:25
the membership of the Cabinet as well as the leadership. Sounds like you're saying he should go, John McDonagh
13:31
I think we have to have that debate. I think he has to realise his responsibilities
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