Up next in 10
George Pataki, who was Governor of New York on 9/11, joins Iain Dale to discuss how NYC responded to the attacks and the critical decisions he had to make.
Mr Pataki also calls for Mayor Mamdani to skip the 9/11 memorial today following the appointment of Ramzi Kassem as the city's chief legal counsel.
Critics have pointed to Kassem's past legal representation of a convicted al Qaeda member whose brother-in-law was among the terrorists who hijacked the plane that struck the Pentagon on 9/11.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
It was just a horrible day
0:01
You know, as you said, I was in the city that morning and on the phone with my daughter who
0:06
told me to turn on the television and I saw the second plane hit and immediately knew that
0:11
New York was under attack. America was under attack. And then you just, as a leader, you spring into immediate action
0:18
And that's what I had to do. I activated our emergency command center, called up the National Guard, closed the bridges
0:25
and tunnels and airspace, all of which the state ran. talked to Mayor Giuliani, told him I was coming to lower Manhattan, talked to President Bush
0:34
and then it just became one of those unforgettable moments when you just had to react to whatever
0:40
the chaos of the moment sent your way. What was the worst moment that day for you
0:49
The worst moment, there were so many, but the worst was seeing the first tower come down
0:55
You knew that we were facing a disaster and people above where the planes had hit probably were going to die
1:01
But when that tower came down, you just knew there were going to be a thousand people
1:06
more than a thousand people between the two towers that were going to just tragically be killed that day
1:12
including, you know, hundreds and hundreds of people who rushed up into those towers
1:17
343 firefighters going up to try to save lives. All of them were killed
1:21
So that was a horrible moment. But there were others. And did you immediately realize that when that first tower came down, that the second one would inevitably follow
1:32
You're never sure. But you immediately think they're the same. They were built the same way
1:37
They suck at the same type of blow from these fuel-laden planes
1:42
So you had to surmise that it probably would. But at that point, there was really nothing you could do
1:49
So, you know, it was too late to be able to try to change the entire method of response
1:57
And, I mean, as the day went on, what was your role as governor of the state of New York as the day progressed
2:06
It was to lead and to lead the state. And, you know, a lot of Ground Zero had been owned by the state
2:15
It was run by the state by a state authority. So, and the state has enormous resources
2:21
So does the city. So, you just, first thing you do is try to save lives
2:26
And you send in every single group you can do to help them The second is do everything you can to prevent further attacks No one knew what might come next And so that was a tremendous concern which is why the airspace
2:39
the bridges and tunnels and other things were shut down. I set up a periphery across lower
2:44
Manhattan with state troopers who normally were not in New York City. And then I talked to Mayor
2:50
Giuliani to coordinate our response. And one of the most important decisions I made in my 12 years
2:56
was that afternoon he had brought his entire team to a temporary emergency center. And I talked to
3:02
him on the phone and I said, I'll be right down. And I took my entire state team down so that we
3:08
sat in the same room at the same table that afternoon and for months, 24 hours a day for
3:13
months thereafter. So we never had a, well, I thought the city was supposed to do that or the
3:18
state said they were going to do that. We had this seamless response and that was absolutely
3:23
essential to help us get through this horrible crisis. And what about the role of the federal
3:28
government? Because President Bush came under a lot of criticism for not appearing in public for
3:35
quite some time until later that day. I thought some of this criticism was actually quite unfair
3:41
Was he in Nebraska at the time? I think visiting a school when he found out what had happened
3:48
Sorry, go on. He was in Florida at the time, and I spoke to him at that school
3:53
in Florida. And he said, you know, he closed down the airspace and he was getting on Air Force One
3:59
And then I talked to him when he was flying west on Air Force One. And he wanted desperately to go
4:06
back to the White House. But the security said, you can't, you can't. It's the next likely target
4:12
And in fact, it was the next target. And they also had information that the terrorists were
4:19
targeting Air Force One itself. They used the codename for Air Force One, and it had no
4:25
accompanying help. So, I don't criticize him at all for doing what had to be done to make sure he
4:33
was safe as the President of the United States. Looking back on that day, is there anything that
4:40
you now think we could have done that better, we could have done that differently
4:45
From a response standpoint, no. I think we had the best possible reaction to an unpredictable horrific event
4:56
I don't think there was a step that was missed. The federal government came in that afternoon and we had seamless efforts feds the state the city working together the private sector And the response was tremendous Obviously you look at it and you think we should have had a better sense that America
5:18
was at risk. You know, we were at peace. There was no war. It was a beautiful day
5:23
But in retrospect, it seems that there may have been some intelligence out there that
5:29
wasn't acted on that might have been able, we might have been able to be more proactive in
5:34
preventing this type of terrorist attack. How did it change America? Well, in the short term, for all the horror of that day and the weeks thereafter
5:49
it brought us together. The people in the towers, the terrorists didn't care if they were black or
5:55
white, Republican, Democrat, young, old. They wanted to kill Americans, and sadly, they killed
5:59
almost 3,000, and including a number of British citizens as well. And including Muslim citizens
6:06
And including Muslim citizens, absolutely. They didn't care. And so, we had the sense we were
6:13
attacked as Americans, and as civilized people, we're going to respond. And I've never seen America
6:18
as united as we were, not just for weeks or months, but literally for more than a year thereafter
6:25
And that was a positive change. But then things started to divide
6:33
And today we are more divided than I've ever seen in America. And that's really a tragedy
6:39
And we have to move beyond that, because unless we work together, and I'm being a little patriotic
6:46
here as Americans. We don't have a Republican or Democratic future. We have an American future
6:51
And hopefully we have a future working with Great Britain, traditionally a wonderful friend
6:56
of the United States. And if we can't bring us together to seize a better future, then
7:05
I fear that the lessons of September 11th will have been lost
7:10
One of the signs of the splits at the moment is the fact that the current mayor of New York City
7:16
Zoram Amdani has apparently appointed a man called Ramzi Qassem as New York City Chief
7:21
Counsel. Now, he's previously represented people associated with Al-Qaeda. And a few days ago
7:28
Amdani signed an order to formally recognize this anniversary, but then handed the pen he'd used to
7:33
sign this order to Qassem. And that's caused a lot of anger, hasn't it
7:38
It has And I think it should cause anger It a deliberate insult in my mind Why give it to someone who represents al when al clearly was responsible for carrying out that
7:48
attack? Why not give it to the family of a firefighter or a police officer or someone
7:53
who died that day? So, to me, it seems like a deliberate insult, and that is very trouble
8:01
Now, Rudy Giuliani and yourself have both said that the mayor, Mr. Mamdani, should not be
8:07
attending tomorrow's official commemorations, but he has confirmed that he will be going
8:14
I assume that you'll be there as well. What will you be saying to Mr. Mamdani
8:18
should you have a chance to speak to him? I think it's important to act in a civilized way
8:25
You know, you have political differences, but that doesn't, should not translate into personal
8:29
differences. The ceremony tomorrow morning isn't a political event and politics shouldn't be
8:36
involved. So to the extent I have anything to say at all, I will be civil and welcome the mayor there
8:42
even though, given among other things, his failure to condemn the phrase
8:47
globalize the Intifada, which essentially calls for violence against Jews. Another reason I don't
8:53
think he should attend, but he's going to be invited. Nobody's going to stop him. And I would
8:56
hope that all of us who are there will treat him with respect. We disagree, but he's the mayor of
9:04
New York, and he deserves respect at that solemn event. Now, just finally, it was revealed this
9:10
week that you have a long-term respiratory illness caused by the proximity to debris and chemicals
9:17
in the days and weeks after 9-11. How is that affecting you? I'll tell you, I'm lucky. I hate
9:26
that story. You look and sound in rude health, if I may say so. I feel great. Yes, I have lung
9:31
issues. But so long as I'm careful and try to avoid getting a pulmonary thing that would become
9:37
pneumonia instantaneously, I'm fine. But I look at the others, literally tens of thousands who have
9:43
all sorts of horrible diseases, including numerous different cancers. They're the ones that I feel
9:49
bad for. We were told the air was safe. Obviously, it was not safe. So I just believe that the
9:55
American people, the American government owe it to those who are suffering these health consequences
10:00
us to do everything we can to help them. Well, Governor, I don't say this to many guests
10:05
but it's been truly an honor and a privilege to talk to you today. And thank you so much for
10:09
joining us and giving us your recollections, your views on how 9-11 changed America. Thank you so much
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