Up next in 10
Should balaclavas be banned in Britain? And should the same rules apply to religious face coverings?
Officers are "absolutely ready" to police a ban on face coverings at anti-migration protests, one deputy police chief has insisted, as he admitted hundreds of masked men descending on his town would make him "nervous as well".
After Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood told police to "ban face masks at far-right protests".
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
#jameshanson #debate #farright #protests #hampshire #portsmouth #facecoverings #balaclava #burqa #ukpolitics #uknews #nigelfarage #LBC
LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK.
Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/
Sign up to LBC's weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
They're working class men that have to cover their faces because, Yusuf, you know, if their faces are out, what would the left call them
0:07
Yeah, but what would they call them? The Home Secretary has told police to ban face masks at far-right protests ahead of further demonstrations this weekend
0:17
Forces have stepped up planning and intelligence sharing as Shabana Mahmood warns that the protesters are trying to intimidate communities
0:25
and at a meeting with senior officers on Thursday, the Home Secretary made clear that she expects police to make full use of their powers
0:32
including stopping protesters wearing face coverings. But there are some who argue, including Nigel Farage
0:41
that any ban on balaclavas should also include religious face coverings, like the burqa and the niqab
0:48
Here's what he posted on social media on Wednesday. He said, I will ban the burqa and balaclavas
0:53
This is Britain. we see each other's faces. So here's my question to you this hour
1:01
Should a ban on face coverings include the burqa? 0345 60 60 973 is the number to call
1:10
Send me a message on WhatsApp on the same number or you can text me 84850
1:16
Stay with me on this because I've got what you might describe as quite nuanced views on this whole issue
1:21
but I think the first thing to say on the issue of balaclavas specifically
1:28
absolutely they should be banned there is no reason for someone to wear a balaclava out and
1:36
about in public they are frankly the preserve of bank robbers hooligans and professional agitators
1:45
why would you need to wear a balaclava out and about in public if you are one of these far-right
1:52
thugs who have been gathering in dover in portsmouth predictions there may be further
1:58
demonstrations this weekend and you are covering your face surely the only reason you are doing that
2:06
is because either you want to intimidate people or because you are minded to engage in criminal
2:13
behaviour and you want to protect your identity to avoid prosecution. Well, that should be illegal
2:20
shouldn't it? You shouldn't be allowed to wear a balaclava on a protest. And it's something we
2:26
have seen too much of in recent years on far-right protests and indeed on some left-wing protests too
2:32
You think of Antifa even some pro demonstrations people covering their faces Yes you have a right to gather to assemble to protest as a fundamental democratic freedom But with freedom comes
2:44
accountability. And accountability means showing your face, actually having the guts to say this
2:52
is who I am. You should be in a free society, confident enough in your conviction to say
2:59
I will show my face whilst going on an anti-small boats protest
3:05
It's perfectly legitimate to be angry about the small boats crisis and the government's inability to deal with it
3:10
I'm angry at the government's inability to fix the small boats crisis
3:14
but I am prepared to put my face and my name to that statement
3:18
and actually say that publicly. I'm not hiding behind a balaclava. So why should these thugs
3:25
03456060973 and the other thing with balaclavas specifically before we get on to the burqa
3:32
where i have more nuanced views is that it's not just demonstrators is it it's just petty
3:39
criminals too you know i sometimes see around my corner of south london masked youths roaming the
3:46
streets and you think to yourself they're clearly up to no good they're either going into the local
3:50
supermarket to raid it, to shoplift, or they're probably these phone thieves. I mean, when I had
3:55
my phone nicked outside Oval Tube Station in South London a couple of years ago, surprise
4:00
surprise, the thief was wearing a balaclava. So there is no justification, is there
4:06
for wearing a kind of face mask, a balaclava in this day and age. If you are wearing one
4:13
you're almost certainly up to no good, or at the very least you're intimidating others
4:17
and as such I do think it is overdue for them to be banned in law
4:23
But then you get the issue of whether religious garments, religious face coverings should be included in such a ban
4:30
Nigel Farage saying this week, I will ban the burqa and balaclavas
4:34
His exact words, this is Britain, we see each other's faces. Now this is where I have a few issues
4:42
Look, I don't like the burqa. I don't like the kneecap. I do see those kind of religious garments as a form of patriarchal
4:53
oppression. I am uncomfortable with them. But there are lots of things I'm uncomfortable with
5:00
in society. And that doesn't mean I think they should be banned. I think in a liberal
5:07
tolerant society and let remember what tolerance means Tolerance does not mean that you hold hands with each other skip round in circles and sing nursery rhymes Tolerance means that you put up with things that you may object to that you may find distasteful or even offensive
5:23
but you accept them because you understand that your dislike for something
5:27
does not give you the right to want it banned. And so I wouldn't ban the burqa
5:34
I wouldn't ban the kneecap. I may not like them because, as I say, I think they are signs of misogyny, of female oppression in many respects
5:43
But that doesn't mean I think they should be outlawed. And I think we need to draw a very clear line between things we find uncomfortable and things that we think should be illegal
5:57
Is it really the place of the government to dictate to people what they can and cannot wear unless there are grounds
6:03
And this is the question I would pose to you this hour. On what grounds would religious garments be included in a ban on balaclavas
6:14
I understand the grounds for banning balaclavas are protests or anywhere, really
6:19
because there is so much evidence of people wearing them who are up to no good
6:24
either violent agitators on protests when they're blocking the roads and clashing with the police
6:29
or indeed criminals who are raiding supermarkets, robbing banks or stealing phones
6:33
There's evidence there. there is clearly no evidence of people robbing banks stealing phones raiding shops wearing the
6:43
burqa if there was then there might be grounds to ban it there isn't so why would you ban it
6:50
just because you don't like seeing women wearing them is not a good enough reason
6:54
i agree with you i don't think the burqa is something we should be celebrating i think it
7:01
is a sign of a form of female oppression, but just because I am uncomfortable with it doesn't mean I
7:08
think it should be banned. This is what separates us from other societies that are illiberal. If you
7:17
see the burqa as a sign of illiberalism, which I kind of do, it's a form of religious puritanism
7:24
in essence, and there's nothing about needing to wear the burqa or the niqab or even the hijab
7:29
as far as I'm aware in the Quran, but if you see it as a form of essentially religious intolerance
7:35
and illiberalism, then why should you respond to that with another form of illiberalism by banning it
7:43
Again, I come back to that point. On what grounds? On what grounds would you ban the burqa alongside the balaclava Because the balaclava you can look at cases of theft of criminality of agitation of protest of clashes with the police of people trying to protect their identity when they
8:01
up to no good you can you can point to enough cases to say it would help the police do their
8:08
job if you ban the balaclava there simply aren't equivalent cases with the burqa so i don't
8:14
understand why people would want it banned in a liberal society. 03456060973 is the number. Now
8:23
of course, there are societies, we don't have to look very far to find an example of one where they
8:28
do say, no, no, religious face coverings are banned. France, for example, passed a law in 2011
8:35
I believe, making it illegal to conceal your face in a public space. And that covers everything
8:41
From the burqa to the kneecap to balaclavas, masks and helmets. Now, there are exceptions for, for example, motorcycle helmets, but context is everything
8:53
Now, it doesn't ban the hijab because the face remains visible with the hijab
8:57
That's a headscarf, essentially. But it does ban the burqa and the kneecap
9:01
And it applies to all public spaces, streets, shops, public transport, parks, government buildings
9:06
The penalties for wearing a face covering in public include a fine of up to 150 euros or a requirement to attend a community rehabilitation program
9:17
And if you are found guilty of forcing someone to wear a face covering, for instance, out of kind of religious pressure
9:26
then you could face up to a year in prison or a fine of up to 30,000 euros
9:31
face coverings are allowed if there is a valid reason in France. For example, health, so medical masks, work, safety gear or for sport
9:39
Critics argue it discriminates against Muslim women and restricts freedom of religion and expression
9:44
But supporters say it promotes social interaction and equality. And in 2014, the European Court of Human Rights upheld the ban
9:52
saying France could justify it on social grounds like living together. So it is not unprecedented for Nigel Farage and others to say ban the burqa
10:03
because they do do it in nations that are broadly equivalent to us, like France
10:09
But I am uncomfortable with the call to ban it. Yes, ban the balaclava
10:15
But if you go down the road of saying because you don't like the burqa
10:20
because you feel uncomfortable seeing women with their face covered for religious reasons
10:25
that that in and of itself is enough grounds for it to be outlawed
10:31
What say you
news