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Raheem Kassam phoned into Lewis Goodall's show to address his tweet being put to Reform's Robert Jenrick.
In the tweet, Kassam described Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch as a 'Nigerian scammer'.
Robert Jenrick refused to say whether the tweet was racist or not, whilst Kassam accused Lewis of being 'woke'.
0:00-0:31 - Intro
0:31-03:37 - Lewis puts racist tweet to Reform UK
03:37-13:55 - Raheem Kassam phones in
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0:00
Is calling Wendy Benok a Nigerian scammer, racist, yes or no
0:04
I'm saying that, firstly, I'm not here to... Why won't you just say yes
0:08
Get Raheem Kassam onto your show. Why won't you just say yes? Raheem Kassam is on the show right now
0:13
Mr Kassam, thanks so much for phoning in. You could have just said she was a scammer. Why did you have to invoke the Nigerian bit
0:18
which, of course, many people will think it invokes her blackness? It doesn't. Otherwise, I would have called her a black scammer
0:24
You know it does. You know it does. You're just lying. You know it does
0:29
I know it does. You say that Kemi Bainok's been called Kensington Kemi
0:34
She's been called something else, and this is by a long-time ally of Nigel Farage, as you'll know him
0:38
Rahim Kassam, former chief of staff, indeed, from the UKIP days. He's called Kemi Bainok a Nigerian scammer
0:44
and warned people not to give her their bank details. Do you condemn that as racist
0:49
Are you really going to chuck at me the comments of random journalists
0:53
This person is not... He's a former chief of staff of Nigel Farage, in a week where your party has been an undercover report
0:59
It's not someone who is employed by reform. There's no role in reform
1:04
It's like, you know, me asking you, well, you do actually work with John Sopel and Emily Maitlis
1:09
but it's not your responsibility to police what they say or tweet
1:13
It's just a journalist. Do you think that that is racist? Our country is £3 trillion in debt
1:18
Do you think it's racist to call Kemi Badenok a Nigerian scammer, yes or no
1:22
Well, she said that she was Nigerian, and I presume what he is referring to, I don't know, I've never spoken to her
1:29
I've never spoken to her about this. Of course she is. But I presume what he is referring to here
1:34
is the fact that she told a big lie and said that she'd been offered a scholarship
1:40
for pre-med at Stanford University. Is calling, let me better knock, a Nigerian scammer
1:47
racist, yes or no? I'm saying that, firstly, I'm not here to..
1:51
Why won't you just say yes? Get Raheem Kassam onto your show. Why won't you just say yes
1:55
Get Raheem Kassam onto your show. Let's just say if someone phoned up now and called her a Nigerian scammer
1:59
would you say that was racist? Yes or no? Let me ask you this question. Firstly, let me ask you this question
2:04
Why did you not report the fact that Kemi Baden-Ock made up the fact that she'd been offered a pre-med scholarship at university
2:11
They don't even do this course. They found no evidence of this. Why isn't LBC doing an undercover investigation about Kemi Baden-Ock's CV
2:18
You're good at dissembling, aren't you, Robert Jenner? You're good at putting your party on told you in a lot of whataboutery. No
2:24
I'm not on your show. I'm not on your show to talk about what a journalist has tweeted
2:32
Is saying that she is a Nigerian scammer, and this is a person who is a long-time ally of Nigel Farage
2:38
is he a member of reform? Would you be concerned if he discovered that he would be a member of reform
2:43
He's not a member of reform. But if he were, should he be thrown out for saying that? I'm not going to go around debating the tweets of journalists
2:51
Do we spend the whole of this programme doing that? He's a long-time ally of Nigel Farage
2:55
He's a former chief of staff. I would politely suggest, Lewis, that it would be better that we used the time we have to talk about the issues that the public actually care about
3:02
If he's a member of reform, should he be thrown out for saying that? I'm not going to get involved
3:07
Why wouldn't you just say yes if he is? Because you're trying to waste what precious time you and I have on this show when we could be talking about the state of the public finances, how we help people with the cost of living
3:17
We've talked about that. We could be talking about freedom of movement, for example. You seem very irritated by what is a very basic question about what lots of people would say is clearly racist You wasting time debating what a journalist has said rather than asking me about things that I can control myself which is what is the position of reform for example
3:35
on freedom of movement? Just for the record, Mr Jenrick declined to say
3:39
whether it was racist or not. But Mr Bikassam has clearly heard about this because he's been tweeting about it
3:44
asking if he could come on the show, and we were more than happy to oblige
3:48
So Rahim Kassam is on the show right now. Mr Kassam, thanks so much for phoning in
3:52
and joining us on the show this morning. Let's just get straight to it then. You called Kemi Badnock a Nigerian scammer
3:58
and warned people not to give her their bank details. What does her Nigerian heritage have to do
4:04
with whether she's trustworthy? For having me, yeah. I think it's very interesting to me
4:11
that you guys want to pick up on a tweet of mine. But I'm happy to discuss each part of it, right
4:17
I'm going to start with the scammer part. Kemi Badnock lied about what Nigel Farage said about the Chagos recently
4:24
Kemi Badnock has championed DEI in government. Kemi Badnock has lied about her position on the European Convention on Human Rights
4:31
She lied about her Stanford scholarship. She said on LBC, no less
4:37
quote, my mother was a Muslim. I was born in a country that was 50% Muslim
4:43
She just lies. She lied about her meeting with Maloney. and I am not going to..
4:48
My name is Raheem Kassam and I grew up in West London. I'm not going to take lessons in racism
4:55
Somebody who, quite frankly, Lewis, should check their privilege, as you guys like to say
5:00
Why... She may well be. She may well be. Mr. Kassam. I'll answer the other part
5:04
No, wait, wait. You put that... Let's take it one bit at a time. I think that's a good idea
5:09
She may well be a liar. I offer no judgment about that whatsoever. That's your view and you're obviously free
5:14
to prosecute that argument. What does the fact that she's Nigerian have to do with it
5:19
Firstly, I mean, not that you would know, but Nigerian is not a race. Nigerian is a nationality
5:25
So, you know, let's not be silly and stupid about this. The Nigerian scammer thing was obviously a joke that goes back to the phone jacket days
5:35
I don't know if you remember that show. It's clearly a racial stereotype, isn't it
5:39
We grew up with it. It's a stereotype, yeah. A racial stereotype
5:43
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take responsibility for what Channel 4 aired when I was growing up, right
5:50
You look at the Nigerian part of this, right, and why this matters
5:54
She has called herself a Nigerian many times, and then when it's not convenient or she doesn't want to be known as a Nigerian anymore..
6:02
But what did Nigerian add to your criticism exactly, other than just invoking a racial stereotype
6:06
Well, it's another one of her scams. What, she's Nigerian? She calls herself a Nigerian when it's relevant to her, and then she attacks people
6:14
Why is that a scam? It's up to her when she wants to invoke it or not. I'm half Irish. I invoke it if I want to, but I'd also call myself British. It's not a scam
6:22
Because you don't think you can identify as whatever you want whenever you want. She's running to be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
6:28
and she's on record saying she loves Nigeria as much as she loves Britain. But identity is a hierarchy, isn't it
6:35
I'm from Birmingham. I'm English. I'm half Irish. I can invoke, I'm British, I can invoke all of these different things when I choose to
6:41
Why does that represent her or make her a scammer? You can, you can, mate, but I will fly the British flag high and proudly and I will call myself British. Okay
6:49
I don go to one audience and say one thing and another audience and say another thing You just said that you do that British is your only identity British is your only identity You have no other components to your identity other than being British
7:03
What I am saying is that you're running to be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
7:08
going to one audience and saying, I love Nigeria as much as I love Britain, and then going to another audience and saying
7:13
I'm not Nigerian anymore. Well, you also asked whether she was an illegal immigrant. You also asked whether she was an illegal immigrant
7:18
What evidence do you have to back that up? What she said on LBC
7:23
She said, quote, I was born in a country with a 50% Muslim population
7:28
Now, she's probably made a slip of the tongue there. But she herself has caused doubts on where she was born
7:35
I'm not, by the way. I know she was born in the United Kingdom. There's plenty of evidence to say she was born in the United Kingdom
7:42
She has said that. In the very same way, by the way, that she said in a TED Talk in Houston
7:47
that she joined the Conservative Party because she wanted to do more on foreign aid to Africa
7:54
This is still on YouTube. You can go and look it up. She was one of Cameron's cuties
7:58
Everybody wants to pretend that Kenny Badenow is new. But to be clear, do you think that she's an illegal immigrant
8:03
Just to be clear, do you think she's an illegal immigrant or not? Of course she's not an illegal immigrant. Then why did you tweet it
8:09
Lewis, I get that you guys are humorless, but if you can't sell a tongue-in-cheek joke on Twitter
8:14
then I don't know what the point of that happens. It might be humor, but it's just racist humor, and that's fine. You can join, you know, lots of racist comedians out there who think that's funny, but just own it
8:22
Just accept it. Just accept it. Just own it. You've vocalised the number of perfectly valid points, perhaps, about her trustworthiness
8:32
The listeners and viewers can respond to that. Did you need to rely on lazy stereotypes to make that point
8:38
And will you not accept that some people won't like it and criticise you for it
8:43
I've been called all sorts of things. I've been called brown, darky, mussy, you name it, right, growing up
8:48
I understand those things, quite frankly, better than people I know. I don't take offense because I'm not woke
8:55
I'm not worried about hurty words. You know, if Kenny and Kevin Hollenrake and you and LBC are offended by that, that's up to you
9:03
So if someone, for example, you'll be comfortable with someone in public life talking about a Jewish scammer, for example
9:08
That would be fine with you. what if someone in public life in tweeted started talking about jewish scammers you'd be like yeah
9:16
that's fine no problem i'm a journalist i'll say what i want we have free speech in this country
9:22
people so now so now you've got an identity as a journalist so identity is quite multi-complicated
9:27
isn't it and multifaceted right yeah that's my race yeah i'm a journalist louis that's my race
9:33
but identity is more than about race and you you seem to be objecting to the fact the idea that
9:38
Anybody's identity could be more than British. Or the one making everything about race
9:42
I mean, why did you ask Robert Jennerick about my tweet? What nonsense. Because you used to be a senior aide to Nigel Farage
9:47
and this is a party which is being dogged by racism allegations, and I thought it might be quite interesting to ask one of the most senior figures
9:53
whether a former aide of Nigel Farage calling Kemi Badenok a Nigerian scammer
9:58
is racist in his view. He decided not to say it was, which I think was perhaps revealing in some sense to the audience
10:04
He doesn't know anything about what I tweeted. why would he be studying my tweets i've said nasty things about he clearly was aware of it
10:11
when when he because he's seen passing evidence of it when the tories planted at the daily mail last
10:16
weekend i mean if the tory party has nothing else to do then cry woke in the daily mail i think it tells you everything about where they are as a party right now she is a scammer kevin hollenrake is a scammer But then why did you have to call her a scammer rather than say she was a Nigerian scammer You could have just said she was a scammer
10:32
Why did you have to invoke the Nigerian bit, which, of course, many people will think it
10:36
invokes her blackness? It doesn't. Otherwise, I would have called her a black scammer
10:40
You know it does. You know it does. You're just lying. You know it does. You know it does
10:47
It doesn't trigger me. I just think it's a racist thing to say and you should own it
10:51
on your radio show talking about it. Of course it triggers you
10:55
It triggered her. It triggered Helen Horan. Well, maybe it did trigger her because she's been subject to racism in the past
11:00
Maybe she's entitled to be triggered by it. Why? What? Just own it
11:05
Own it. You made a racist statement and you won't accept that it is. I'm owning it. I'm on the air with you
11:10
I'm owning it. But you're denying that it's racist. You're denying. You're just saying, oh, it's full of wokeies
11:14
It is not about her race. You know, it is not about her blackness
11:18
It is about the fact that she goes up and calls herself Nigerian. You mentioning her Nigerian has nothing to do
11:25
You had no idea that it might invoke her blackness and you had no idea it might invoke a lazy stereotype
11:31
about West Africans being scammers. That just didn't occur to you? I knew it would trigger you
11:37
Of course I knew it would trigger you. Oh, so it did occur to you? So you were happy basically putting it out there
11:41
as something that people would interpret as racism? This caused you? Yeah, look, because everything's racist nowadays, right
11:48
No. No, it's not. If you called her a scammer, that wouldn't have been racist
11:52
If you called her a scammer, that wouldn't have been racist. Fair enough. Calling her a Nigerian racist
11:57
Yeah, that's racist. We would have had the same conversation if I had just said scammer. We would have said that that is a lazy West African stereotype
12:04
You would have said that. You absolutely would have said that. I think invoking, literally talking about her Nigerianness, I think as you knew
12:11
And you then went on to say that she was an illegal immigrant. You knew what you were doing
12:16
She spent her life talking about that. So, you know, that's up to her
12:20
Are you still a member of reform? I'm proud to be British. No, I've never been a member of reform. You're not a member of reform
12:25
There you go. There you go. So you don't even know. When your question is faulty
12:29
I've never been a member of reform. Do you advise Nigel Farage? Over a decade ago
12:34
I last worked for Nigel Farage over a decade ago. Do you talk to him much? Do you advise him
12:38
I live in Washington. No, I don't advise him. I live in Washington
12:42
Danny Mell reported that you were at Reform HQ not so long ago. Was that true
12:46
I visit all the time. Whenever I'm back in the country, I visit my friends in the Tory party
12:52
I visit my friends in Parliament. I visit my friends at Reform HQ. I mean, your profile picture on X
12:58
is literally you at a reform event. I've been to reform events
13:03
I've been to lots of reform events. I've been to lots of Tory events. I've been to later events. I've been to the World Democrat events
13:07
Well, I mean, sorry, forgive me then. Forgive me. You're at Reform HQ all the time
13:11
You're at Reform HQ all the time. You just said that. And you have a picture of yourself
13:15
at a reform conference. That's the picture you've chosen. Forgive me for thinking you might have some association with reform
13:20
not least because you used to advise Nigel Farage. I see my friends in Britain all the time, whether they work at reform
13:25
whether they work at the Conservative Party. I saw one of my friends from the Conservative Party the other day on the street
13:30
Some Conservative MPs came to my restaurant at the beginning of last year
13:34
to have dinner with me. What is your point? This guilt by association thing, it's as bad as the everything is racist thing, Lewis
13:41
Be serious. Rahim Kassam, we are grateful as always for all of our callers phoning in
13:47
especially you in this case. Rahim Kassam there responding directly to the question
13:51
that we put to Robert Jenrick speaking for himself on Sunday with Lewis
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