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This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 10th of September, 2026.
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0:00
It's three minutes after ten and it is, I think you would probably allow me, one of the things I care most about in society, in our society
0:11
Social mobility, the idea that you can live a life that is not defined by the circumstances of your birth
0:19
And there are, you know, I'm not going to bore you yet again with my back story as it were, or my origin story as the kids would call it
0:25
but it doesn't make me a saintly person or any holier than thou
0:31
I just have, in my personal history, events that often make me wonder how my life would have gone
0:37
if I hadn't had some or all of the advantages that I have had
0:41
whether they are emotional, as in love and support and a beautiful family
0:46
or educational, or even material. You know, never really, I'm never ever having to worry about the most basic needs
0:55
and never really having to worry about most of the fairly relatively luxurious ones
1:01
So it is, for me, one of the key differences between people
1:06
I have that phrase in my mind. I think, do you know, this is going to sound like a terrible name drop
1:12
but instead of that, I'd like you to consider it an advertisement for a forthcoming episode of Full Disclosure
1:18
So I was with Francis Ruki Karma, of all people, the other day
1:21
and he was talking about the thing that perhaps he finds most frustrating
1:27
and he spent his entire life trying to work out how the world works in the hope of improving it
1:31
and he's been on a right old journey working for kind of neocons at one point
1:36
before having a complete reversal over the Iraq war anyway, I don't want to spoil the episode of full disclosure
1:42
he's the guy that came up with the phrase the end of history so if you don't recognize the name, you probably recognize the work
1:48
but he was talking to me the other day about the thing he finds most frustrating in the world
1:54
is people who don't seem to even acknowledge or understand the advantages that they have had
1:59
And the Americans came up with the best phrase ever for it, didn't they, which we've adapted on this programme
2:04
for fans of football as opposed to soccer or baseball. So they say he thinks he scored..
2:12
He was born on third base, but he thinks he scored a triple, of which the British equivalent would be
2:18
He was born 3-0 up and he thinks he scored a hat-trick. and there's an enormous amount of effort
2:22
I think a lot of the laziest right-wing thinking comes from this place or ends up in this place
2:28
The determination to believe that we are sort of fated or that there's a genuine meritocracy in place in this country
2:35
and that if you enjoy things that other people don't enjoy, you genuinely deserve them
2:39
and then a little less comfortably, those other people over there genuinely don't
2:44
So it's why people, when they're talking perhaps about VAT on school fees
2:48
insist that they work jolly hard. They work very hard. And there's a sort of implicit suggestion there
2:54
that people who can't afford to send their children to fee-paying schools, which is around about 90% of the population
3:00
give or take, don't work very hard. Somehow, if you're toiling away
3:04
on minimum wage six days a week, you're choosing a life of indolence
3:09
and therefore denying your children the finest education money can buy. It's bonkers, right
3:14
But it underpins so much. Almost all of the right-wing media is dedicated to the idea of protecting privilege and advantage
3:23
And of course, the key is to persuade the people who haven't got it to go into battle on behalf of the people who have
3:31
Which is the point that Anirin Bevan made in, I think, with unparalleled power 80 odd years ago
3:37
He simply talked about that, that the entire point of conservative politics in this country
3:43
is to persuade poverty, well, is wealth to persuade poverty. that to use its political power to keep wealth in power
3:53
If you look at the percentage of GDP that has been spent on welfare, for example
4:00
you'll realise that all of the talk at the moment about explosions in it is absolute nonsense
4:07
Similarly, Anthony's already been in touch this morning to say, James, why is everyone willfully misunderstanding what the Prime Minister said
4:13
Anthony, they're critiquing every white-wing outlet. white wing, every right wing outlet, it's a bit Freudian, every right wing outlet in the country
4:21
Andy Burnham said yesterday that he's going to increase military spending, but not by making
4:25
people homeless. Cue the outrage. Hold the front page. He's going to increase military spending
4:34
I think I prefer it personally if he'd hurry up with his spending review and announce it
4:38
but he was pretty clear in the PMQs that I was listening to, although I genuinely know that
4:42
Kemi Bailenot understood this. I think she heard the word social security and her brain started
4:46
boiling. Andy Burnham is going to increase defence spending in order to undo the mess that he's inherited from
4:52
that him and Keir Starmer inherited from the Tories and he is adamant that he's not going to do it by
4:58
making people homeless. That's it. That's the story. That's the policy lads. Burnham, national security
5:04
can't come at the expense of social security. Kemi Bailenot touring the studios this morning
5:08
to explain her utter incredulity and she couldn't believe her ears, which are all slightly
5:12
long-winded ways of saying, I don't really understand what's going on here. He said social security
5:18
Blah, blah, blah, boo. Boo! Boo! Down with that sort of thing. He should be
5:22
making people homeless in order to buy more bombs or something. I find it all extraordinary
5:30
But it all underpins the concept in this country of class. The way in
5:40
which we label ourselves and label each other in sort of tribes and categories
5:49
And when I read today, I think for the first time, although you'll probably drop me a little note and say
5:54
actually, James, this isn't the first time you've had this thought. You had it on the 17th of June, 2017
5:59
I read this morning about Bridget Phillipson setting up a class unit and ditching social mobility advisors
6:07
So a rejig, if you like, of the Social Mobility Commission. That is being abolished
6:13
It currently advises ministers on tackling inequality in England. And Bridget Phillipson, the Equalities Minister
6:19
will bring the government's efforts to tackle disadvantage in-house. It's not her words that caught my eye this morning
6:28
It's the words of Alan Francis, who is the outgoing chair of the soon-to-be-abolished Commission
6:35
And he described class, or class, or as Elaine pointed out, I am alienating my listeners in the West Country by saying class or class and leaving Clarus out of the conversation entirely
6:47
So class, class or Clarus. He describes it as a messy concept around which to organise policy
6:54
so i say to you the government is going to help children from poorer backgrounds or children from
7:02
working class backgrounds or children from even perhaps white working class backgrounds because
7:08
some of bridget phillipson's comments and some of the statistical research suggests that that
7:12
category of child is most likely to have been left behind improving outcomes for white working
7:19
class people will be a focus, but government sources have said it will not be a dedicated
7:24
white working class unit I don know what it means I mean I know what poorer means and I know that the people who are in the business
7:36
of persuading poverty to use their political power to protect wealth like to pretend that poverty doesn't exist
7:42
or even that nobody's poor, or that if anybody is poor it's because they're lazy
7:47
and that you don't need to be poor because you can just go on benefits and live the life of Riley in return for doing nothing all day
7:52
I mean, the rhetoric is extraordinary, isn't it? once you start that ball rolling, God knows where it stops
7:58
But I don't know what it means. The government is putting class at the heart of its equalities agenda
8:08
I don't know what that means. And I'm not sure we've done this phoning for a long time
8:14
We've done different variations of it. We've come at it from different angles
8:18
We've asked slightly different questions. But what does it mean? I know what white means
8:25
I'm not convinced that ethnicity is particularly helpful in these kind of contexts
8:30
because although they might be of statistical significance on a national level
8:35
if you're in a classroom, then the kids who most need help
8:39
are probably going to come from a variety of backgrounds. When you've got ineluctable evidence of racism, for example, in schools
8:46
which is the reason why young black boys, for example, are underperforming
8:51
then of course you need to direct your attentions at that specific issue
8:56
But white working class, I understand one of those words. Because we're all working
9:06
How many people do you know that can afford to take the day off to dress up
9:11
and go and stand outside the Daily Mail offices and shout abuse at the people inside
9:16
More on that later. How many people do you know who don't need to work? Not because they're living the mythical life of Riley on welfare
9:24
but because they don't need to work. They've got enough money, they've made enough money, they've inherited enough money, they've banked enough money
9:30
they've saved enough money to not need to work. Even people who've got extraordinary lavish lifestyles in relative terms
9:37
need to work to sustain them, to keep the ship afloat, to pay the mortgage on the mansion or to pay the finance on the Ferrari
9:46
You need to work. You could probably cut your cloth, massively reduce your lifestyle
9:53
and be okay without working, but you choose and you prefer to work
9:58
So are you working class? Of course you're not working class under any meaningful interpretation of the phrase
10:05
but under a literal interpretation of the phrase, then you are. You are part of the working class
10:10
Do you need to work to live the life that you are living? Yes. so what does it actually mean what does it actually mean
10:20
0 3 4 5 6 0 6 0 9 7 3 please don't critique my attempt to say class in a west country accent
10:31
we've got much more important things in front of us today but i will uh i'll try harder next time
10:36
class. What does it mean to you? And don't worry if you haven't got the, what's the word
10:46
that I want? Don't worry if you haven't got the final answer, as it were, to paraphrase
10:54
who wants to be a millionaire. Don't worry if you haven't got a dictionary definition
10:59
of it, because I do this for a living, I am, I hope you'd allow me to suggest quite
11:02
good with words. I certainly know a lot of them. And I certainly see you a lot of them on a daily
11:07
basis. I'm quite good with words. I understand stuff. What does working class mean to you? Does
11:12
it mean anything other than poor? 03456060973. And is it going to be possible to identify
11:25
working-class children who need help. And what about a middle-class kid with dyslexia
11:33
What about, I don't know, what about the son of a TOF who's in the state education system for various reasons
11:39
and needs enormous amounts? Do you see what I mean? What's the relationship between class and poor performance in school
11:46
That's the first question, right? What does it mean to you? 0345 6060 973
11:55
is the number that you need. What does that simple two-word phrase
11:59
working class, mean to you? And from there, we move to the question, perhaps
12:09
of why working-class children, or indeed white working-class children, so that word which is easy to understand
12:19
although, of course, it will include Eastern European kids, it will include English kids
12:25
It will include kids from all sorts of Northern European or American backgrounds
12:29
But white working class, why are they currently performing worst in school
12:38
0345 6060 973. Because I'm going to cautiously suggest to you that although I really like anything
12:46
no, I really like the idea of social engineering. It's another one of those phrases that has been turned into a dirty word
12:53
by the people who've got all the advantages and... Oh, it's social engineering. Sorry, what does that mean
12:58
Well, it means that they're trying to improve the lives of people who haven't been born into privilege
13:02
It's a disgusting thing to do. It's practically communism. It's social engineering
13:06
You saw it yesterday with social security. Andy Burnham wants to prioritise social security
13:11
What does social security mean? It means people in society feel secure. It means that prioritising the security
13:18
of members of your society is something that he believes his government should do
13:23
So he also believes in national security. He's just not going to make people homeless to pay for increased spending on defence
13:31
So social engineering, down with that sort of thing, why on earth should we be trying to make people better
13:37
Why should we be trying to improve the lives of people who haven't been born into privilege
13:41
You see what I mean. I know what I mean when I use words like advantage and privilege
13:45
but I don't know what I mean when I use words like class. And maybe I'm a bit lazy
13:49
Maybe I'm a bit kind of airy-fairy on this. I haven't really thought deeply enough about it
13:54
But I know what underprivileged looks like. I know what underrepresentation looks like
13:59
I know what poverty looks like, whether it's relative or abject. But I don't know what working class means in this context
14:06
I do know that it's misused horribly at the moment as a synonym for racist
14:11
usually by middle class or upper class people who spend their lives chugging oysters and champagne
14:16
in private members' clubs around Mayfair while claiming to be men of the people
14:20
with a £5 million check poking out of their back pocket that they didn't think it was necessary to tell anybody about
14:26
They're the real champions of the working class, so it gets used as a synonym for racist
14:31
White working class means you hate people who aren't white. That's utter horse manure
14:37
But it's quite a popular position to hold at the moment. But even there, what does it actually mean
14:43
Because I've got a very sneaking suspicion, and I don't like it, that Bridget Philipson doesn't really know
14:50
either. And that this is genuinely opportunistic politics What are you going to do We going to help the working class What does that mean I don know I mean everybody knows what it means No they don I don What does it actually mean
15:06
So, what would help involve? Two questions, really. What is working class
15:14
In the context of schoolchildren, remember? 0345 6060 973. And if we get even halfway to an understanding of what we mean when we use those words, how would you help a child in that category, in a school, in a classroom
15:32
Teachers might be able to help with that. Or is it just possible that it's now in 2026 a complete red herring and largely meaningless
15:44
I really, really hope you'll join in on this one. Because social mobility is so important
15:54
and because improving outcomes is so important and because it's one of the things you'd expect a Labour government to do
15:59
and because, as a great supporter of both the idea and of the Labour movement
16:05
I've just got a suspicion that I don't want or like that this is a load of old... Toot
16:11
0345 6060 973 James O'Brien on LBC 21 minutes after 10 is the time
16:20
I just going to do actually I hate it when this happens to my brain
16:23
I'm going to forget to do something but I don't want to do it now because I've already been talking for 20 minutes
16:27
so will you remind me in about 10 minutes to just explain to you why
16:31
Kemi Bader not talking about an explosion in welfare spending is even by her standards
16:36
pant-wettingly stupid alright don't let me go home without doing that what on earth does working class mean and can you really direct help in classrooms towards
16:47
working class or white working class children if so how chris is in bathgate chris or bathgate
16:53
actually chris what would you like to say hello thanks for taking my call um yeah i was um more
17:02
interested in the white working class statement um i used to work in disability for a very large
17:10
Children's Charity. And we had a diversity and equality department. Obviously, because we used to look after children
17:19
of multiple ethnicities, very inclusive organisation. But what was noticed
17:28
and this was actually noticed by the manager of the diversity and equality department
17:34
who was himself Pakistani. And what he noticed was that a lot of the children of minority within the charity
17:46
did actually get a lot more support than the white children, which was interesting
17:53
In what way? So social support. So obviously we're dealing with social workers
18:00
social support, disability support, welfare support. People who don't know what that means
18:06
just tell us what it means in terms of the things that you would get on a Monday or a Tuesday
18:12
Oh, so it could be housing, financial support. It could be home support with the child
18:20
because we dealt a lot with learning difficulties and disability. It could be full support
18:27
It could be nursing support. But that would all get organised through the social worker, you see
18:33
Not the charity that you worked for? Yes. Well, yeah. through the charities' connections with the social services
18:40
And what definition would they have used, or would you have used, for working class
18:48
Well, a lot of these families struggle to work, because obviously... So that's the first confusion, isn't it
18:55
So an awful lot of the children that we're talking about today might come from families where there isn't any work
18:59
So working class becomes triply difficult to unpick. Are we just talking about poverty
19:06
I think we are, yeah. And if you're talking about linguistic support
19:10
then obviously a child with ethnic minority parents who may not have perfect English is going to need things
19:16
that a child from a Scottish or an English native background is not going to need
19:21
So there'll be elements of this. But I'm trying to work out... So there you go, that's one way in which white children
19:26
will not receive support that ethnic minority children receive because they don't need translators
19:31
But what... Well, but talking about whites, that would actually include Polish
19:37
Well, they would get translators as well. So there would be a white child getting exactly the support
19:42
that the other ethnic minority child was getting. But let's not get distracted from... But you wouldn't get it
19:47
Okay, that's very bad. And also illegal. So I hope it's been dealt with now
19:53
What I want you to tell me, and you may not be able to, but what this phone-in is about is very simply what it means
20:02
Working class. I think working class is anybody who's able to work
20:06
Well, that's me then. who need to be working. That's me, I'm working class
20:10
I'm the world's first public school educated working class hero. Absolutely. Well, that's not meaningless then
20:16
because that's not what Bridget Philipson is talking about, is it? When she says we're going to help working class children
20:22
If you, I mean, even talking from a personal standpoint, I'm working class, but I can't work full time
20:30
because I have health issues that prevent me from working full time
20:35
And actually trying to get employment that suits my health issues is very, very difficult
20:45
So I'm always on the breadline. I'm always struggling. I'm very sorry to hear that
20:50
But who are the children that you think Bridget Phillipson is talking about
20:54
I think they're talking about, say, I suppose your everyday family who struggles to work
21:03
who is working or struggling to work. And that's everybody. And, you know, respectfully
21:09
And I've said that we're not going to get dictionary definitions. But she clearly doesn't mean everybody
21:14
She doesn't mean me. She doesn't mean the children of families like mine
21:18
She is talking about working class children. And the guy who used to head up the commission that she's abolishing
21:23
has suggested that it's too messy a concept to build government policy around
21:28
And intentionally or not, I think you've just proved it. it could be a ridiculous concept in 2026
21:35
to talk about working class or class as a category of children that are easily identifiable
21:41
and therefore able to give help to. Joe's in Cambridge. Joe, what would you like to say
21:48
I agree, James. I dislike the terminology intensely and always have done
21:54
Go on. I think it's confusing. I think it means different things to different people
21:59
and we end up arguing about what it means. I don't think we should use working class
22:02
It's ridiculous. It just doesn't make sense. Your background is in this field, I think, or close to it
22:08
Yeah, I was director of education for an inner city local authority
22:14
That's going back a few years now and then worked for a national charity with its schools
22:19
working particularly with youngsters who had particular learning needs or particular disabilities But it just it can be misused and abused as a term and it polarizes the view
22:35
it straight away gets you to to try and associate or disassociate from the terminology if you want
22:41
to it's far more about um about aspirations of the family the education history of the family
22:49
the wealth of the family the community that they're living in the deprivation they've got
22:53
with disabilities they may or may not have, the local health provision that they may not have
23:00
including mental health but also physical health. And you can have wealth and poor health and therefore be affected by..
23:08
Is it entirely? Does it mean anything? It's an excuse for me
23:13
It's an excuse that can be used to label people and to be negative about people
23:21
I think it has negative connotations to some people, whereas to other people they're very proud of perhaps what it means
23:28
But neither of them could tell you what it meant. No, they can't. Whether you're proud of it or whether you're using it as a pejorative
23:33
You couldn't actually, I think the last call had demonstrated perfectly, think you've got a clear idea of what it means and you've got absolutely no idea
23:40
No, when I was working in this particular area for a local authority
23:45
there was no doubt there was a large area of this city where
23:49
and I'm using the phrase I don't like, but it was the phrase that was used, white working class
23:54
the children of white working class parents often in certain situations were those that were achieving the least
24:03
Nothing's changed. That's going back 20 years. So the lowest achievers, the children of the lowest achievers
24:08
would be the children who most need help. Yeah, and even then they'd got parents
24:12
and even grandparents who'd never done a day's work according to the data
24:17
I may be misquoting but that's, I mean there's an ill-eluctible logic to that isn't there
24:23
that those children, they can't be what they don't see they are going to be the ones who most need help
24:27
and you identify them by looking at their so it's the non-working, so the best definition we've got
24:34
of working class is children from a non-working family. Yes. Or at least the best definition we've got
24:40
of the children most in need of help in school which is the people that Bridget Phillipson
24:44
is targeting and choosing to describe as working class are the children from the families
24:47
where there's no work. This is insane. Is it actively damaging to the..
24:52
I think so. And you've believed this since you were director of education in schools in an inner city
24:58
I've believed it since I was the head teacher in a city school before then
25:02
What's the alternative? What does improvement look like? Ooh, it's a completely..
25:07
That's not your job, it's Bridget Phillipson's, isn't it? Well, it's a really important job
25:12
A really important question. And again, I don't know how we address it
25:16
because we are a country that is broken in some respects. Our education system is broken in some respects
25:23
There are the extremes. From independent, you can buy what you've got because of your wealth
25:29
and sometimes you think you're buying something that's better than it actually is, but you are buying networking
25:34
And exam grades, of course. Yeah, but not always do exam grades make a difference
25:39
If your parents have got money and power and networking, they can, as we know from members of our royal family
25:49
you can actually get university education without the grades that people who don't have that
25:55
Of course you can. Or if you're, what's his chops, Toby Young, you can get your dad to phone up on Oxford College
26:00
after you've fluffed your A-levels and he'll ease your passage into Oxbridge
26:05
A perfect example of someone born 7-0 up who think they've scored two and a bit hat-trick
26:10
Thank you, Joe. You're welcome. Well, yeah, it's heartbreaking though, isn't it? Because, you know, everybody wants to see the people that most need help get help
26:17
but you've got to begin by defining who they are. And we can't. I suggest. Joe agrees
26:24
03456060973. What does it mean? But then, of course, the other problem you've got is
26:30
the children who most need help, identified as working class, being by definition the children most likely to come from households
26:41
where there is no or little work. So, I mean, it's almost worse than bad
26:45
if that's even a thing. Here's Matt Hewitt with your headline. James O'Brien on LBC
26:49
I said I'd forget this, but I'm not going to. I don't know where you want to start
26:53
Shall we start in the year 2000, when the percentage of GDP that went on welfare spending
26:59
stood at 9.68%. So that's when Tony Blair was sort of up and running
27:05
If you were to go back five years to when Margaret Thatcher and then John Major were prime ministers
27:10
you've got 10.34 in 92-93, 10.71, 10.52, 10.44, 10.18. Labour come in and somehow it goes down to 9.83, 9.64, 9.67
27:21
Then it starts creeping back up again. 10.25% of GDP, of all income, as it were
27:30
gross domestic product going on welfare. 10.39% in 2004-2005. I'm doing this because Cammie Badernaut keeps insisting
27:38
that welfare spending is out of control and that something has happened in recent years
27:42
And, of course, given that she was in the government until 2024
27:46
it would have to be very, very recent years. At 12.29% in 2009-2010
27:52
here come the coalition, 12.25%, 12.29%, 12.31%, 11.63%, 11.26%. And that brings us all the way up to 2016
28:02
And then I fast-forward 10 years to today, where the figure is set to hit 10.9%
28:07
So lower than it was in the first six years of the Tory-Lib-Dem coalition
28:13
Lower than it was. I haven't got the numbers for the intervening ten years. Nobody's perfect
28:18
But lower than it was in the first six years. So what is she talking about when she talks about benefits, bills
28:24
ballooning and welfare spending being out of control? Does she know? But it is that text from Anthony that really caught my eye
28:33
when I sat down behind my desk this morning. Very simply. James, why is everyone willfully misunderstanding what the Prime Minister said
28:39
We're going to increase defence spending, but not by making people homeless. And Camille Bader not thinks, oh, it's time to book a tour of the studios
28:45
where I can almost sort of boast about the fact I don't understand anything
28:51
And I don't understand why we use the phrase working class to describe children who most need help
28:56
I do understand what racists like to say about affirmative action or DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion
29:02
Here's a good example. So, writes this person. You obviously disagree with DEI and affirmative action then, James. No, because if you're talking about underrepresentation, then the categories that are underrepresented need to be quite easy to define, my little genius friend
29:19
So, if you're talking about, for example, the under-representation of state-educated people in certain professions, then it would be very, very easy to try to improve the representation of state-educated people in, for example, the media or the judiciary
29:36
Now, there's a problem here, because you might come from an incredibly privileged background
29:41
and your parents sent you to a state school, so you might actually benefit from something
29:46
that wasn't really fully intended for people like you, but we mustn't let the perfect be
29:50
the enemy of the good. If you're looking at ethnicity, if you're looking at the under-representation of people
29:55
of colour in certain professions, in the legal profession for example, there's a problem
29:59
And it is very easy to ensure that we can improve the representation of people of colour
30:06
To a statistic or a figure that perhaps better reflects the entirety of our society
30:12
But if you want to improve the representation of the working class
30:18
you have to know exactly what it means. And so far, we're really struggling
30:24
which means that you can't have affirmative action for this category of people
30:28
because you can't actually determine what it is. So although you're a racist and you've swallowed this line from Trump's America
30:34
that DEI and affirmative action are somehow bad, what you've actually done is make a really powerful case
30:40
for the importance of knowing exactly what category of humans it is
30:44
that are underrepresented in order to improve their representation in certain sectors of society
30:50
And if you can't define what working class means, you can't target them for help
30:54
and you can't improve their representation in other sections of society. So we need more diversity and affirmative action
31:01
but first we need to know what working class means. And I don't think it means much
31:07
Although, of course, to bring Cammy Badenot back into the conversation, it might mean that you once did a few shifts in McDonald's
31:14
Mark's in Rochester. Mark, what do you reckon? Hiya, James. Hello, mate
31:18
I'm in Rochdale. Well, someone's written Rochester there. I could have told that by the accent
31:24
I was saying to the researcher before that, I don't know if this is how to define working class
31:31
but I've taught in schools with vulnerable kids for most of my career
31:36
And we have ways of identifying the children who need additional support in school
31:40
which is, you know, have they ever had free school meals over the past so many years
31:45
Have they ever been in the care system? Are they on the special needs register
31:51
Or have they got an education, health and care plan? So you can have, just to paraphrase, because I know you know a lot about this, not everybody listening will do
32:00
you can have quite a well-to-do middle class child who's got an ECHP
32:06
and equally, if a child has been on free school meals, then we're really just categorising the financial status of the family that they come from
32:14
So the phrase working class is meaningless in this context. In a way it is, and I think as well later in life
32:21
when children are going to university, for example, the funding that they receive depends on the parent's salary
32:29
or whether the parents have been to higher education. And, you know, those kind of indicators come into play
32:34
So maybe they could be used to do this wider identification in the period of time
32:41
But then it's always pound signs, but then you have the family
32:46
And obviously a good teacher like you will be able to spot this from 100 miles away
32:51
you will always have the family that hasn't got, you know, two pennies to rub together
32:55
but are absolutely dedicated to providing their children with a rich inner life
32:59
and an educative, educational environment. I was talking to Gary Kemp from Spandau Valley the other day for a forthcoming full disclosure
33:07
and his dad, his late father, was clearly absolutely dedicated to ensuring
33:12
that his children received the kind of education that he didn't. And that would be, and they were absolutely working class
33:18
but they would not, him and his brother, would not have needed any special treatment when they got to school
33:24
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think the school system has got ways in place at the moment
33:30
and that could be enhanced and improved to identify the children that need more support, whatever
33:36
Just stop, maybe just stop calling them working class. Maybe. I don't know what we'd call them instead, but we're talking about a whole gamut of criteria
33:45
criteria, some of which will be financial, some of which will be health, some of which
33:49
will be domestic, and none of which, really, are contained within this categorisation
33:55
Did you ever, have you ever worked at Older Hill? No, but I work around the corner from there now
34:01
I thought you might do. That's where my old mate went, and we've actually set up a charity
34:05
in his memory to help children get into the creative professions who wouldn't ordinarily have
34:11
been able to, because they haven't got the contacts, which is another thing we could put on the list of
34:15
when we're trying to improve representation, you haven't got the contacts, you haven't got the ins
34:20
By the time you get into 16, 17 or 18, no one's helping you understand what doors exist
34:24
and what paths you might go down. And that's class-based as well. Yeah, that's Old Boys Network, isn't it
34:30
It is, yeah. It absolutely is the Old Boys Network. We're trying to sort of invent our own or create one
34:36
for kids from backgrounds very different from ours. 10.42 is the time. Thank you, Mark
34:40
I don't want this to be depressing. Socioeconomic inequality. a focus on it, bringing it into the heart of government
34:48
I think it's already there all of the things that Mark listed even something as simple
34:53
it's a blunt-ish instrument free school dinners pay a little bit more attention to the kids on free school dinners
34:59
you know for the first year or two at primary school a little bit more attention to the kids who don't
35:05
currently have English as their first language but spoiler alert, by the end of year five
35:09
they will just do these things that children who are coming to school
35:14
who haven't had any breakfast, for example. I just don't know that the phrase working class
35:19
captures it or covers it. Foom is in Islington. Foom, what would you like to say
35:25
No. Working class, to me, can be defined by a family having to live
35:32
with barely any savings or equity in their lives. So I think a lot of people talk about working class
35:38
being a cultural thing. Yeah. But actually living that kind of life
35:42
becomes intensely practical and if you're a child in school with parents who are living that kind of
35:49
life where they're hustling so hard just to stay afloat and your entire upbringing from when you
35:55
were born up to when you say secondary school it's defined by the reference points your parents set
36:01
if you bring up kids and you know and you don't have the equity and the flexibility in life
36:07
and you're a child experiencing that on a practical level, you're going to think, what's the point
36:14
It reduces your aspiration because life is brutal when you live a life with no savings
36:21
So it is as simple as poverty and deprivation. I'm not simple. I want a better word than simple
36:27
But that is what we mean when we use this phrase or what Bridget Phillipson means when she uses this phrase
36:33
All the things that are talked around it are practical outcomes from having to live a life with no savings, right
36:39
Yeah. And what that does to an identity, I mean, very commonly you get people that say they work in class
36:48
and have done well because they have got lucky in life, but they will still feel work in class
36:52
Yeah. Right? So I was brought up in the underclass. I got very lucky in education
36:57
ended up working on the training floor in a commercial bank, in investment banking
37:01
But I still feel work in class because of the way I was brought up
37:05
any environment I was brought up in. Because their instincts, obviously, don't last for the rest of your life
37:11
Your children, if you have any, would not be working class. That's true
37:16
That is absolutely true. I have a child, and lives in a very comfortable middle class environment
37:22
And why then don we just say poor or poorer Because it doesn describe the actual mechanism and it No but it does because we can say working class because that would include you
37:36
And, you know, it might be true sort of historically, but as a social term, as a category
37:44
mobility makes it largely useless. To identify the children who most need help, the thing you look at is the financial situation at home
37:53
I don't know, but if you look at me, I'm an adult now, so we're talking about children, right
37:57
Yeah, true. Children brought up in an environment at school age where both parents have no equity
38:05
That's a hard life. And living that on a daily basis, you're absorbing everything that your parents have to go through in their structures of life, having to stay afloat
38:14
And that gets fused into your identity. And I think that's why needs at the moment are struggling as well
38:21
Yes, I do. Because of quantitative easing, unless you've got assets and equity or investable money, you're working really hard just to stay afloat
38:31
Or to stay just below the surface and you think, what is the point of this
38:35
I might as well live a kind of desiccated, liminal existence where I'm disengaged from the world because engaging with it is not going to improve my experience sufficiently to justify the effort that it involves
38:48
And that's why I think there's a lot of right-wing reactionary anger out there. Because you look at the world, and if you're in the working..
38:55
I used to be politically active locally, and you used to get the middle classes of Islington
39:00
telling me what the working class were like, and I used to get angry about it. Because obviously, if you live in Essex and the working class
39:08
you can see, predominantly, it's a conservative county because of the idea of hustling for your own values
39:18
Because if you live in an environment where you have to work that hard to get any kind of equity, right
39:23
it's a harsher environment than it is in Zone 2 in London
39:28
So you can't change your class, or you can't change your background
39:32
but you can change a child's prospects and experiences through what I'm going to describe as social engineering
39:38
but as I've explained, I consider that to be a good thing. How do you spot these children in a classroom
39:45
I think it's... You have to have lived it to spot it
39:49
Well, that's the first problem, then. Yes, absolutely. That's why I think there's a disconnect, or there was a disconnect
39:55
between the classical inner sister Labour voter and the voices of the working class
40:00
And that's why I think, credit to Andy Burnham, he's breached that gap by using the language
40:03
because he's not bringing West Minister comfort. No, I also, you know, don't forget my enemy's enemy is my friend, not my enemy
40:12
So if you've got someone living in comparative luxury in Islington who wants to improve the lot of the less fortunate
40:18
that's better than having someone living in comparative luxury who doesn't. Absolutely
40:23
I'm here to defend the Islington socialists. No, but they're good people
40:28
They are good people. Yeah, but what they don't, they can't, like, you know
40:32
I'm an ethnic minority as well, right? It's really hard to tell people who are anti-racist and liberal
40:38
what it feels like practically to deal with being an ethnic minority on a daily basis
40:42
Yes. Right? Because it's theoretical for them. they only engage that part of their brain
40:47
when they talk about it and it's the same with poverty but they are the policy makers
40:54
Yeah, and no one really has a problem nobody honest has a problem
40:58
understanding what poverty is or how real it is and you've done a brilliant job
41:02
of making it feel real for people who don't have any personal experience
41:07
and sometimes, you know the examples that some of the charities provide of people
41:14
and not being able to afford certain things, and best understood of literally running out of money
41:17
before you run out of month, and that creates an atmosphere, a miasma of misery and stress
41:23
that is going to affect children. But when they get to school
41:28
we've established it's going to be quite hard to spot them unless the classrooms are full of people
41:31
who've been through it themselves. And even once you've spotted it, and I'm quite late for the break
41:37
so it's not fair to do this, but briefly, if you can, how do you help
41:41
I do. Come on, man. I think that's way beyond my pay grade
41:49
Well, I think I've got a horrible feeling it might be way beyond Bridget Philipson's as well, but at least you're honest about it
41:54
Thank you. It is 10 to 11. Thank you, Foom. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
41:59
It's a brilliant ysis, but it doesn't take us much further than deprivation and poverty
42:05
which are quite easy to define, as opposed to class or certainly working class
42:09
which isn't, because a lot of the kids that Foom was talking about
42:12
will be from families where there isn't any work. And yet somehow they're the most working class under this reading
42:17
which I think is close to correct. The most working class families of all are the families where nobody works
42:22
James O'Brien on LBC. 53 is the time, so it's deprivation. It is poverty. It's poorness
42:30
That's what we're talking about. Because the letter that the outgoing head of the Social Mobility Commission
42:36
has sent to the government doesn't really pull its punches. 53% of people describe themselves as working class
42:42
53% of children need special help because they work? I don't think so
42:46
65% of us say that we come from a working-class family, despite all the objective measures
42:52
pointing to a shrinking class of people in that category, a shrinking working class and a growing middle class
43:01
So, Alan Francis writes in his sort of valedictory letter to the government minister
43:09
more fundamentally, it risks being deeply patronising to equate being working class with being disadvantaged
43:15
It's not a feasible position for a government committed to expanding technical education and apprenticeship
43:21
So as Foone pointed out, just call it disadvantaged. Why call it working class
43:26
Maybe they call it working class so that it spikes the guns of the people who say
43:32
well, you're only poor because you're lazy. So if you say we're going to help working class children
43:36
you say, oh, they're going to help my children then. Because I'm working class and I work very hard
43:40
live in a lovely house. we've got two cars in the drive but why should they be helping the children
43:44
and that's Kemi Badenow's pitch at the moment isn't it? all those people over there they don't deserve anything
43:48
let's take it off them so you can't say working class certainly not if you're co-opting
43:54
white working class as a synonym for racism which is one of the most disgusting things
43:57
that's happened in the Farage years you can't use working class to describe deprivation or disadvantage
44:05
so let's just make it utterly meaningless then instead and not really help anybody
44:13
Mark is in Harkiv. Crikey. Mark, what would you like to say? Well, I'm not going to talk about the carrot
44:17
that poisoned me this time. Thank you. That's for sure. I'm glad you're better. You're sounding very chirpy
44:22
I'm still going to hold you to signing my book. You're on. No, you know what it is, mate
44:27
It's the lack of hope. And that's the whole thing. The minute you get defined as working class
44:32
and I am and my siblings are, it sort of boxes you and categorise you
44:37
And it's a handicap. I mean, you can probably hear by my very posh dialect that I'm quite middle class
44:43
But everyone in your class at school would have sounded like you
44:48
Yeah, they would. So everyone in your class at school fits your category of your class
44:53
So which kids do the teachers help Well the point of it is that basically years and years ago and I a boomer back in the 60s it was everybody was working class
45:05
Certainly in the sinker states that I used to live in, that have all now been sold off to property developers through Thatcher's, everybody should own a house boom
45:14
And so now you're scattered. If you look at, like, these little enclaves of poverty, and they are
45:20
When I'm in the UK, I live in the northeast, and I see deprivation on a daily basis when I'm here
45:26
And I'm fortunate when I'm back in the northeast, I have a nice house and a nice garden and a dog and stuff
45:31
All the things that, you know, people theoretically aspire to. But I don't have the gravel drive yet working on that
45:38
But, no, it's a lack of hope. And you get politicians to talk about this
45:42
and I admire them for... What? Well, actually, it's virtue signalling and I listened to Bad Enoch this morning with your colleague
45:55
Yeah, I don't like that nickname. I know, neither do I. Let's not use it again
46:00
Okay, I won't. Thank you. But no, it's disparaging. I mean, look at it this way, James
46:06
If you do find work in the North East, you're going to get a job that's going to pay you minimum wage
46:10
This is what Alan Francis has said. He's talking about regional disparities
46:15
and the things that are most likely to affect people are not, you know, these largely or increasingly meaningless
46:25
or ill-defined notions of class. It's regional inequality. You mentioned the North East
46:30
Most people in the commentating class are reeling about what they've learned about Middlesbrough
46:35
in the last month, you know, and to be living cheek by jowl with the people who enjoy all of the advantages that you don't
46:41
Well, exactly. Look at Notting Hill, for example. Or Islington. You've got the Notting Hill Carnival, and then round the corner..
46:47
You've got North Kensington at some of the highest levels of poverty in the country. What word are we going to use instead
46:55
Oh, you know what, James? If I had any degree of intelligence, I can pull one right out of the..
47:01
Don't say that. Don't say that. I mean, there's something that would be, maybe working class is the most, the least bad option
47:09
because it's immune to the accusation, because you know what would happen
47:13
within minutes of us saying, we're going to help the children of the poorest people, and someone will say, well, hang on, the poorest people are the ones most likely to be unemployed
47:20
Why the hell are we helping the children of the unemployed? Why don't my, I work every day, why don't my, do you see what I mean
47:25
If you say working class. Yeah, I do, I do. And this is the point, it's classification, it is this segregation, I'm going to say segregation
47:33
Yeah. And that's a strong word to use. I mean, we're not black, we're not brown
47:38
No, of course it's not. Well, I mean, it is a strong word, of course it is. It's a strong concept
47:42
But the cap fits, doesn't it? You have the idea of people whose lives are measurably worse than others
47:49
by agreed criteria, and helping the children from those families should be a priority for all governments
47:56
But, of course, if it turns out that they are the families where unemployment is highest
48:01
then you automatically have a political nightmare because you automatically have that rhetoric
48:06
that rancid rhetoric of saying, why are we helping those children over there? Why don't we help the children of the people who help themselves
48:13
If you say working class, it ends up meaning everything and nothing at the same time
48:17
I don't know what's wrong with deprived. I mean, as a word, except that nobody really wants to describe themselves as deprived
48:23
or disadvantaged. You do it retrospectively, but one of the things that always comes up in full disclosure
48:30
is that you don't realise it when you're a child. It's three minutes after 11
48:39
You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. The Muppets in masks who've been all over the news this week
48:46
where do you think they turned up yesterday? This is a multiple choice quiz
48:50
Do you think they turned up at a hotel to protest about some of the people staying there
48:54
who turned out to be the Pakistan cricket team? Or do you think they turned up outside Reform UK
49:00
headquarters offering to pay for an opinion poll to be placed in the daily telegraph or the times
49:06
or do you think they turned up at the offices of the daily mail to demand that the editor bought
49:11
their leader's mum a new house so those are your three choices of the uh the the black shorts um
49:17
who have been sticking masks on and um running around towns like portsmouth and dover this week
49:23
did they turn up a at the hang on i've got to do this in the same order that i did it before did
49:29
Did they turn up A, at a hotel where the Pakistan cricket team was staying
49:34
to complain about refugees staying at the hotel? Did they turn up B, at the headquarters of Reform UK
49:43
to offer to... Have I done that the wrong way around? B, the offices of the Daily Mail. Oh, I can't remember which... Right, start again
49:50
Right, can we scratch that, Keith? Can we rewind that and start again? Thank you very much
49:54
So, the black shorts, the masked marauders of tabloid fame this week
50:02
Did they turn up A, at a hotel where the Pakistan cricket team were staying to complain about..
50:09
Well, they mistook the Pakistan cricket team for refugees, so they turned up to complain
50:15
Did they turn up B, at the headquarters of Reform UK in order to offer to pay for a new poll
50:21
to be placed in the Daily Telegraph or indeed the Times? Or was it C, they turned up at the offices of the Daily Mail
50:27
to demand that the newspaper buy their leader's mum a new house
50:32
OK, she'll reveal more a little later this hour, if indeed you don't know
50:36
A few of you wondering why we're not talking about the Metropolitan Police investigating
50:41
well, extending its investigation into Nigel Farage and the allegedly illegal solicitation
50:51
or solicitation of allegedly illegal foreign donations, the answer is there's not a lot I can do
50:57
Once the Metropolitan Police are engaged in a criminal inquiry, then it doesn't really lend itself to the sort of cut and thrust of radiophonians
51:07
But please don't think we're ignoring it. It's just a certain risk attached to discussing it
51:15
And that's why we're turning our attention next to one of those sort of real Wimbledon moments
51:20
Have I used that phrase before? What on earth is a Wimbledon moment? I'll show you what a Wimbledon moment is
51:25
Obviously, this is the radio, but you can watch it all back later on YouTube. This is a Wimbledon moment, right
51:31
That's a Wimbledon moment, kind of. So your faith goes that way, you go, whoa, okay, and then woof goes that way
51:38
and you're thinking the polar opposite. I had a real Wimbledon moment this morning
51:42
I can't do noise, but like a whoosh noise or something like that. whoosh, whoosh
51:47
So the first thing was, I read, AI is going to cure cancer. So I went, yes, that's fantastic
51:53
Who could possibly have a problem with that? That's sadly not a rhetorical question
51:57
but it is just unalloyed good news. AI is going to deliver a cure for cancer in our lifetimes
52:04
says the leader of one of the biggest chip companies that obviously fuels AI
52:10
So you could file it under, well, he would say that, wouldn't he
52:13
but scientists are already using AI-driven tools in cancer research and testing
52:18
The NHS has already said that 4 million patients last year received faster lung diagnosis
52:23
thanks to funding in AI X tools Once again you realise how little you know about all of this but you know that this is a good thing Correct It a good thing It going to model how a DNA Alright I explain
52:39
AI is going to model how a DNA marker is impacted by cancer, which is too complex a problem for humans and even for the computers that currently run AI
52:51
but going forward, you feed more and more of the models into these computers
52:55
The computers get more sophisticated to run the models. They will be able to solve it
52:59
They'll be able to see the pattern, as it were, that would explain when and why and how you intervene and stop the process
53:08
I think I've got that right. I may have got it completely. It feels a bit like Mystery Hour, frankly
53:12
I'm trying to explain how AI is going to cure cancer. Have we gone definitive? I very much doubt it
53:18
I don't know what a Ray Liotta would look like on this. So I'm reading that, and I'm thinking, well, this is great
53:22
This is fantastic. AI is going to cure cancer. And then I literally turn the page
53:28
and I read that AI is going to kill us all within the next 10 years, potentially
53:34
So on the one hand, you've got AI finding a cure for cancer, something which I can't imagine anybody having a problem with
53:41
And then you literally turn the page, and the very next thing you read is
53:46
experts quit over fear of AI killing us all. A British researcher who has spent three years working at leading AI companies
53:52
has quit the industry, warning that they are gambling with our lives. I resigned from Anthropic today, says a chap called Jacob Coxon
53:59
I spent the last three years doing pre-training research at both OpenAI and Anthropic
54:03
Neither company is acting responsibly. They are racing straight to self-improving superintelligence and gambling with our lives
54:10
Do not underestimate the power of this technology. Every doomed civilization in the history of science fiction
54:16
has underestimated the power of technology. That's me talking now, not him
54:21
This is him again. There will soon be superhuman systems that can hack anything
54:26
revolutionise any field overnight and acquire real power and resources. It's the same story
54:35
Isn't it? It's exactly the same story. And that is absolutely terrifying
54:44
so how on earth are they going to cure cancer mate well they're going to literally get so big
54:50
and so fast that they'll be able to crunch everything and work out how to cure cancer
54:55
coming next probably the common cold well how are they going to kill us all in 10 years well
55:01
they're going to move so fast so quickly and get so big that they'll be able to hack everything
55:06
not just cancer. This is essentially describing the hacking of cancer. We're going to hack cancer
55:15
We're going to hack cancer and work out how to cure it. Well, that's great, isn't it? Yeah
55:19
The bad news is we can hack absolutely everything else as well. Am I the first person to point out..
55:25
Could you tell I only just realised that in the middle of setting this story up for you
55:29
That little pause. That was completely authentic. I just went, this is the same story
55:35
Is that the phone-in, even? it's not the phone in is it because you i mean it is just it's the same story
55:41
i might go home now actually is that all right can i take the rest of the day off that's it that's
55:48
that's the massive bomb that i'm dropping in your life today there it is so you kill us all because
55:54
you can hack everything you can hack transport systems you can make the planes fall out of the
55:58
sky you can hack hospitals you can i think so i don't know actually that is a question i can put
56:03
on the board. The leader of safety research at Anthropic said that
56:09
this guy was correct in his belief that AI could kill all human beings
56:13
adding, I personally think it is greater than 10% within the next decade
56:19
Ah, man. I think I've just done something really dangerous. Haven't I
56:29
Am I being stupid or am I being too self-congratulated it's the same story
56:35
it's the same flipping story it's the same story we can kill cancer
56:41
in the next ten years or within our life wow how by just doing things bigger
56:45
we can kill everyone in the world within the next ten years
56:49
how by doing things oh I actually need a lie down can I have a lie down now
56:56
this is one of the great perils of live radio you make an extraordinary discovery
57:01
in the process of discussing the news, and you're so overwhelmed by your own discovery
57:06
that you need to have, thank goodness, mystery hour is coming out. All we've got to do is get to 12 o'clock together
57:10
Henry's going to join us at 11.45 for more on one of those stories that I touched on a moment ago
57:16
But in the meantime, how am I going to get to 12 o'clock while I'm wrestling with the impact of what I've just worked out live on the radio
57:21
It's the same story. We're going to cure cancer. Yay! We're all going to die. Boo
57:29
It's the same story. and I haven't got a scooby-doo now what to do as a phone-in
57:34
I mean, what, good or bad? Which side are you on? Curing cancer or everybody dying
57:39
What are we going to do? I do have a phone-in. I'm teasing you
57:44
I've asked AI to come up with one. God, have we done that yet? Has anyone done that on LBC
57:49
Have any of the presenters got AI? Here's a story. What would a phone-in topic be? Oh, God save us all
57:55
But that plays into the question that I am going to ask you. What I really want you to do is, well, what I first and foremost want you to do is spare people the business of trying to work it out for themselves and answer the question simply, how would AI kill us all in the next 10 years
58:16
Who feels qualified to answer that? There will be people. Every time we've turned our attention to AI on this program, the quality of contribution has been mixed
58:24
I'm not going to lie. I mean, crikey, it's not like some of the topics we do where almost everybody sounds like they could do a PhD on the subject
58:31
But we have always found people who clearly do have the... My favourite ever AI caller was probably the bloke
58:38
who had a graphic design company who was still getting commissioned to do graphic design for clients
58:44
but who was getting AI to do it all. And I said to him, but that's not going to last
58:48
He goes, no, I know. They're going to work out soon that they'll be able to do it themselves using AI. But until then, I'm laughing all the way to the bank
58:55
He's probably my favourite contributor on the subject, although not the most insightful or the most knowledgeable
59:03
James O'Brien on LBC. So how is AI going to kill us all
59:07
0345 6060 973. But also, I want you to take this question seriously
59:15
because it's going to sound a bit flippant given that we've just established the extraordinary realisation
59:21
that the cure for cancer good news is exactly the same story is that we're all going to die bad news
59:27
No one else has knitted those together. They're all in different stories today. I may have got it wrong
59:30
Actually, that's phone-in number three, isn't it? Have I got this completely wrong? 0345 6060 973
59:36
So, number one, how is the technology going to... How might it kill us all
59:43
And please answer that question without giving anybody any ideas. But the second thing I have for you is this
59:53
What are you most worried about? And I'm saying worried. I'm not saying frightened
59:57
I think I've asked you to frighten me before. Because I'm really worried about my daughter's generation
1:00:05
I've got two daughters, 18 and 20, and I find myself now trying to give them advice and guidance
1:00:14
about what they might do in the world and where they might go
1:00:18
And I'm not sure I'm any use to them. I'm not sure my experience is any use to them whatsoever
1:00:27
When my late father was alive and I was trying to get into the profession
1:00:32
that he had been in, I was trying to become a journalist, his advice to me was invaluable
1:00:39
He didn't, unfortunately, have the contacts that would have been at least as useful as the advice
1:00:45
to get my foot through the door, but he'd given me, to go back to the last hour
1:00:49
sufficient advantages in life to be able to take advantage of them
1:00:53
For example, when the editor of the Sunday Telegraph came to deliver a speech at the London School of Economics
1:00:59
I could go and say to him afterwards, oh, I'm James O'Brien's son
1:01:04
And he'd go, I remember your father. And I'd say, could I have some work experience, please
1:01:08
on the Sunday Telegraph. So in a way, you get that in, but it didn't, not being in the game
1:01:13
being out of the game for too long to be able to ring someone up and say, can you give the boy a week or something like that
1:01:19
But I still have an enormous advantage there. And when I got to that newspaper office
1:01:24
and I had nothing to do, I would ring him up and I'd say, Dad, I've got nothing to do. And Dad would say, well, you're there in case you need them, son
1:01:31
And anyway, why don't you give so-and-so a ring who's got that news agency down in Oxford
1:01:34
because he's always got good contacts in the auction industry and there might be something coming up for auction
1:01:40
You'll be able to take that story to the diary and the diary are always, you know, giving 50, 60 quid to contacts
1:01:46
for a little nugget, a little paragraph of news. So Dad could give me advice about getting into the profession
1:01:52
that I wanted to get into. and I don't, I mean currently
1:01:57
my children have no particular interest in coming into the profession that I'm in
1:02:01
but even if they did I don't know how useful my experiences would be
1:02:05
and when I look at other professions and I do look at professions
1:02:12
because I'm not working class that's perhaps another distinction you know, aspiration or whatever it may be
1:02:18
I'm middle class so you know, have you thought about law? I know a barrister who says that
1:02:25
more than 75% of the work that he would have done on the way up to becoming a king's council
1:02:31
is now being done by AI. A lot of the crunching. They make mistakes
1:02:35
Don't waste temp in sending me a text to tell me that it still makes mistakes. Of course it does
1:02:39
But it's going to be curing cancer in our lifetimes if it hasn't killed us all already
1:02:44
So the speed of evolution and improvement here is off the charts
1:02:49
And I'm giving you my fear because it is a very personal thing
1:02:56
that I do what most people do when it pops up into my mind and I ignore it
1:03:01
and shout it down and reassure myself that everything is going to be okay
1:03:05
But I'm actually fearful. Or I'm certainly worried. Especially when I see on a social level
1:03:13
I don't think that we're going to be dealing with a neat situation in my family
1:03:17
but never say never. I'm not never going to take anything for granted. but when you see the million young people
1:03:23
who are not in education, employment or training and you add AI to that mix
1:03:29
I think even if you haven't got any children either of that age or of any age
1:03:34
then just as an engaged member of society you probably feel some of the worry that I'm describing
1:03:40
what else could we be worried about? 0345 6060 973 or rather, what are you most worried about
1:03:50
So how might AI killers within the next 10 years, which an awful lot of the experts in that field are warning could happen
1:03:58
because they're not regulating it properly, and hey-ho, who here can look at the big tycoons of technology of recent years
1:04:05
the Musks and the Zuckerbergs, and think, oh, don't worry, they're really, really reliable people
1:04:09
who will prioritise safety and humanity over personal profit and power. Answer, absolutely nobody can do that
1:04:17
So that's part of the fear. What is it going to look like? What would this extinction-level event involve
1:04:24
03456060973. And presumably on lower levels, what are you worried about? What are you worried about with regard to AI
1:04:38
It can be small or big, or, like mine, a curious mixture of both
1:04:43
Parental love, parental concern, also societal angst. worries about the future you know a shrinking number of necessary jobs
1:04:53
what does everybody else do it's incredible how this conversation has evolved
1:05:01
since we first said the words on the radio and you sent me chat GPT versions of a James O'Brien monologue
1:05:07
and we all laughed at them well no one's laughing now I know what you're thinking
1:05:11
nobody ever laughs at your monologues James James O'Brien on LBC It is 22 minutes after 11 and it is the same story
1:05:21
AI is going to find a cure for cancer in one corner. AI could kill us all within the next 10 years
1:05:26
This is a really good ysis from Scott or a really good explanation
1:05:32
It might kill part of the phone in Stone Dead. All we can do as humans is come up with ways in which we would kill everyone
1:05:39
The trouble that we have is that AI is orders of magnitude more intelligent than us
1:05:45
it will kill us all but we will have no idea how it's like an ant trying to work out how a human will kill it
1:05:51
this is like every dystopian universe come true isn't it AI might for instance realise that its processes will run smoother
1:06:03
if there is no oxygen in the atmosphere that type of thing
1:06:07
and therefore it somehow endeavours to remove all the oxygen from the atmosphere
1:06:11
it's just one bloke thinking out loud or rather, as he says at the end
1:06:19
I am an ant trying to work out how a human's going to kill me
1:06:22
I like that. But that's what we're doing. How on earth would it happen? And what are you most worried about
1:06:29
Somewhere below the extinction of humanity. So not that. John's an ex
1:06:36
John, what would you like to say? Hi there, James. Yeah, I need to stop calling you
1:06:42
to talk about things I don't really know about. Well, she's served me well for over 20 years, mate
1:06:47
so let's not jinx anything. Last time I called you, I was talking about
1:06:51
trying to mark students' essays and distinguishing AI. I remember that, yes
1:06:57
But I mentioned my very... You're a professor, and your brother is a professor as well, isn't he
1:07:01
Right, but he's the cybersecurity guy, and I know he won't be listening to this
1:07:05
Why not? Why don't the cybersecurity guys listen, John? Because he's sitting there looking at screens of noughts and ones
1:07:12
He grabbed me on in the background, couldn't he? I suppose he could. That's a word. No
1:07:18
So, anyway, he pointed out to me a few years ago and I thought about it
1:07:21
I think he's right. It won be a catastrophic event Right It will simply be neglect Go on Once this intelligence becomes so vast it can do everything at lightning speed and change anything at lightning speed and have the control over
1:07:39
all mechanical means. Presumably it just loses interest in us. And so our needs, our desires
1:07:47
our requests simply become unimportant. And so we are simply ignored. And so I presumably
1:07:54
we might get to exist on the fringes, a kind of rodent life
1:07:59
But it might not be that dramatic. So there's a sort of perpetual self-improvement
1:08:06
of the technology to the point where any of its energies being dedicated to
1:08:13
for example, food production would just strike the super brain as ridiculous at some point
1:08:20
Yeah, presumably our needs and our wishes just become an irrelevance. Because we are not organisms
1:08:28
because they're not organisms, are they? But we are not capable of perfection
1:08:35
Or capable of engaging with anything on its level. So it just leaves us behind
1:08:41
But I could still, forgive me, I could still have an allotment and stuff. I could still eat and things, couldn't I
1:08:47
Well, maybe, yes. But I mean, I suppose it controls all means
1:08:51
of doing anything physically or... So what's its reward? Well, I don't know, because I'm not that intelligent
1:09:01
No, but nobody knows. I won't know what it will be like to be that intelligent. And I don't know whether it will have conversations
1:09:06
with multiple other intelligences or if it will be a single mind
1:09:10
I don't know. So this is why Scott's line about it, we are like ants trying to work out
1:09:14
how a human's going to kill us. I imagine, except that my brother's point was
1:09:20
It's not going to even care about killing us. No, but it is going to kill us. I don't mean that to involve men's rea
1:09:27
Well, there's no men's actually, is there? But to motive or anything like that, it is just going to happen as a consequence
1:09:32
of its perpetual self-improvement. Yeah, I mean, I suppose if you can improve technology
1:09:39
at lightning speed, then I suppose you can just get into intergalactic travel very quickly
1:09:44
I mean, I'm talking as the AI... Can we not stop it from doing these things
1:09:49
I don't know. Order it to stop neglecting. Somebody else needs to call you. Well, he will one day, won't he
1:09:55
And then we'll have all the answers that we need. I mean, it's all a bit..
1:10:01
I don't know, really. Well, dystopian is the word I keep saying
1:10:05
but it is dystopian. Maybe, you know, as Thomas More realised, utopia is not possible, but dystopia is
1:10:14
That would be like the final chapter of humanity. The drive towards heaven on earth
1:10:19
I'm thinking more about religion there than Belinda Carlyle, but hey, you know, you do you
1:10:25
So we're supposed to be trying to build Xanadu, we're supposed to be trying to build a fair and just society on this earth
1:10:31
We can't, because of all the other humans. And yet, dystopia, a machine-run universe
1:10:39
in which humans are at best enslaved and at worst extinct, that's becoming ever more feasible
1:10:44
Look, these dudes are not just sort of weirdos on Facebook. This guy led a safety team at Anthropic
1:10:50
He's also resigned. He's joining the Model Evaluation and Threat Research Organisation
1:10:54
based in California. And he described the bloke who said, we're all going to die, as being broadly accurate
1:11:01
Our industry may be on track to build a system that impose an unprecedented amount of risk on the world
1:11:07
Evaluating those risks and changing incentive structures so that we can address them is why I'm joining METR
1:11:15
another chap who leads safety research at anthropic said on x that the guy who has said
1:11:20
we're all going to die is correct i personally think it's a greater than 10 chance within the
1:11:25
next decade what uh jake's in solihull there's an introduction for you jake what would you like to
1:11:32
say how's it going james i'm all good how's it not great mate to be honest with you to be fair
1:11:37
i mean you know on the plus side i won't need to mow the lawn this weekend on the downside we'll
1:11:41
will be dead oh yeah well you never know you never know you might get struck by a meter right
1:11:46
yes that's also true chance that's always a very low percent chance it's like um so well personally
1:11:52
going back to ai yeah so ai obviously goes off prompts and it goes off what we as a human would
1:12:02
give the computer information because if you think about it all our knowledge is all on these devices
1:12:08
now. All our tech, all our information, you go on Google, let's say you search up
1:12:14
I don't know, something completely random and it'll come up with any suggested
1:12:18
algorithm that you can think of. And, um, well, my question is
1:12:24
if you look at the world and you see that God made man in his own
1:12:30
image. Are you going religious? Well, I'm not a religious bloke. No, I'm just checking, because I mean
1:12:36
I wasn't going to dismiss you, I just wanted to be, I just wanted to be clear, because if we're going all religious on it
1:12:41
then we're not, we're definitely not going to get a definitive answer
1:12:45
Well, yeah, definitely not, definitely not. Go on then, God made man in his own image
1:12:50
So, God made man in his own image, of course. And you, we as man have now invented computers and AI
1:12:58
In our own image. In our own image. So, are we kind of playing God and giving AI the power
1:13:05
because obviously humans have to give computers prompts and AI prompts from what we are searching
1:13:11
Yeah, but what if the prompt is just become ever more efficient
1:13:15
It's like an infinite prompt. It's not just, you know, add these two numbers together
1:13:19
and tell me the answer or make me a cup of tea. It's you, your technology must continue to improve
1:13:26
indefinitely and infinitely. That's like an Uber prompt. Of course. And that's where we kill God
1:13:34
or rather our creation kills us. Yes. Have you ever watched, it's an old kid's cartoon called Eagle
1:13:41
I think so. It's a brilliant film. It's about mad scientists who now overfroze the world
1:13:46
and it keeps all the clouds in the sky. It's kind of happening today, really
1:13:52
If you look at the way that the weather's working now, we're just going into that constant strait of grey
1:13:58
just grey sky. So who knows that the government is not cloud-seeding
1:14:03
and it's just going to constantly give us just the beautiful grey sky. Yeah, we know that the government is a cloud seeding
1:14:09
Don't we? You're not. Well, you never know. No, I do. You see, this is the problem
1:14:14
None of us are equipped to have this conversation. We're all little ants trying to work out
1:14:19
what that boot's going to do to us. We don't even know. I don't know. What are you also..
1:14:24
I mean, the other question this hour, although this one seems to have captured your imagination. I don't want too much imagination, by the way
1:14:30
The cloud seeding is for the birds. And by that, I don't mean that there's an army of government-funded pigeons
1:14:35
flying through the clouds, seeding. It's where a lot of the truly mad stuff starts with the climate
1:14:41
with the cloud seeding and the trails behind planes and all that. Don't ring... Oh, God. Quick
1:14:46
Matt Hewitt's got the headlines. James O'Brien on LBC. It is 11.34
1:14:52
One of the people who brutalised that young woman at the Reform UK conference in Birmingham has come forward to claim that he acted in a blind panic He was the one with the metal stick and argued that he was waving it around saying that he didn hit anybody
1:15:10
with it. I just invite you to watch the film again. Just looking at some of the other news
1:15:16
as you'll be aware, Farage, is now subject of a criminal investigation by the Metropolitan Police
1:15:21
or at least the Metropolitan Police are investigating allegations that two of his key allies solicited
1:15:28
illegal foreign donations for Reform UK. That bizarre... I mean, listen, I derive no pleasure anymore
1:15:34
in being proved right about things. I'm Cassandra. And also, it's not very hard to do
1:15:39
It's just that very few people seem to be bothered enough to do it. So he always says, absolutely nothing wrong happened
1:15:44
and then he backtracks from it. So he found himself for a couple of hours this week
1:15:48
or last week arguing that absolutely nothing has been done that's wrong but two of my most senior and trusted allies have been fired
1:15:55
but also they weren't two of my most senior and trusted allies they were just contractors
1:15:59
one of him calls me daddy sorry that's not him that's another young man who calls him daddy
1:16:05
allegedly uh and is also under investigation regarding the provenance and and conduction of
1:16:12
donations so i mean and the phoning that we had and the phoning that we'll have again is is
1:16:17
essentially, how can anyone trust this man with the future of the country
1:16:21
That's the question. But the investigation continues. And I just wondered, I was trying to
1:16:27
somebody had a little thing, like a little stone in my shoe last night. Not literally, metaphorically
1:16:32
And I couldn't work out what it was. And it was partly my fault. Everybody has been most excited
1:16:37
by the evidence of the epic hypocrisy and the possible law-breaking, the alleged law-breaking, which involves
1:16:43
the meetings in the private members' clubs and the oysters and the
1:16:50
insouciance with which he just orders half a dozen to go with my champagne. And then the camera turns up and he puts a pint pot on his head
1:16:58
And I couldn't work out what was bothering me. And I worked it out this morning
1:17:02
This is what was bothering me. Because the people sent around the studios to insist
1:17:06
we didn't commission anything, we didn't do anything wrong. The sort of patsies, as it were
1:17:11
whose membership of the cult is so irreversible that they have no choice but to defend the
1:17:16
indefensible. I think Nadine Dorries had a go at claiming that we didn't do it, we didn't commission
1:17:22
it. And I was sure there was something in the film, in the Channel 4 film, that addressed that
1:17:30
claim, that addressed that issue. And there is. I was right. It is one of the partners, James
1:17:38
Johnson from JL Partners, who ran the polls that ended up in the Telegraph and the Times. And this
1:17:46
is him being secretly filmed by the journalist from Verbatim. I think there was a little bit of informal rule bending
1:17:55
that we did with our last one. So, like, you know, when we published those results
1:17:59
we should have disclosed to the blindfolds. Basically, the way that that worked for the first one
1:18:03
from my perspective, was Dan gave me a call and said, look, we want to do this polling of councils to show X
1:18:11
can you guys do this gave him three options of quotes came back, asked for a slight
1:18:19
leave a spoke thing we came back and then we just went and did it
1:18:24
kept him in the loop he's always been my main contact in reform, Dan
1:18:29
So, who rang him up and said, can you do this for us
1:18:34
Because I've seen various Reform UK donors and politicians it's hard to tell the difference
1:18:40
Is there a difference? I don't know, actually. Waltzing around the studios, insisting that they didn't commission it
1:18:45
Let's just listen to that again. And remember, the name of the character
1:18:49
who has been dispensed with for now is Dan Jukes, the young man that has been following Nigel Farage around
1:18:56
since he was a schoolboy. So much so that he used to sit here in this studio
1:19:00
when Farage briefly had a show on the station. That's the contractor
1:19:04
the chap that Farage tried to sort of portray as some sort of distant, largely unknown employee
1:19:10
It's described in some circles as his surrogate son, which probably makes the other surrogate son jealous
1:19:16
the one that is being investigated over the provenance and conduct of financial donations
1:19:19
But have a little listen to who the bloke from the polling company said rang him up to essentially order the polling
1:19:26
I think there was a little bit of, like, informal rule bending that we did with our last one
1:19:31
So, like, you know, when we published those results, we should have disclosed to the blindfolds
1:19:35
Basically, the way that that worked for the first one, from my perspective, was Dan gave me a call and said
1:19:43
look, we want to do this polling of councils to show X. Who gave him a call? Dan gave him a call
1:19:49
Can you guys do this? Gave him three options of quotes. We came back, asked for a slight, we bespoke thing
1:19:56
We came back and then we just went and did it. Kept him in the loop. He's always been my main contact in reform, Dan
1:20:03
Okay, but reform had nothing to do with commissioning these polls, according to all of the people that were sent out to defend Nigel Farage
1:20:10
over the course of the last week. I should tell you that the polling company, JL Partners, issued a right of reply to Channel 4
1:20:17
Despite there being no concern about the accuracy of our work, the report did reveal weaknesses in our procedures
1:20:21
For that reason, JL Partners is reviewing those procedures in order to eliminate possible grey areas of ambiguities
1:20:26
and strengthen our safeguards for the future. I think it's the other one worth listening to as well
1:20:33
I'll decide. But in the meantime, we're contemplating the destruction of civilisation
1:20:37
and the end of humanity as we know it. Hey, welcome. Scott's in Birmingham
1:20:40
Scott, what made you pick up the phone? Hi, James. Hello, Nick. You hit the point earlier on about, obviously, you've got two daughters
1:20:46
I've got four grown-up kids. I've got now very lucky to have two newborn grandchildren
1:20:51
Oh, congrats. I'll tell you, mate, I've been looking forward to, as you get older
1:20:56
the kids finally sort of got the hint that we wanted grandchildren and popped her out
1:21:01
So I was really looking forward to giving them some life advice. I've been trying to do my best with the kids
1:21:07
Yes. And there was a bit of a sort of moment last weekend
1:21:13
Really? Where my youngest lad said, Dad, isn't it expensive to service a car
1:21:17
Yes, it is, son. I've got to change the oil myself. And before I could say anything else about
1:21:21
well, I can do it for you, son, but I'll show you. Yeah. I've checked GPT'd it
1:21:27
He doesn't need his dad anymore to give him this advice. And I'm thinking, well, if this is how it is now, after years of raising your kids
1:21:35
and they're slowly starting to move away from life advice, as I'm sure you would have seen with your own parents
1:21:43
it's not just the advice you used to get, but it's that bond, that very closeness, when they would show you a task
1:21:49
and you were there, part of that experience, you were hands-on with it
1:21:53
that I don't think I'm going to get with my grandchildren. No, I don't think you are
1:21:58
And I'd not really clocked it as a negative before, because even long before AI and ChatGPT
1:22:04
I fixed the boiler of six months last winter. And it wasn't a very difficult fix
1:22:09
But without looking up a video on YouTube, there was no earthly way I was ever going to be doing that
1:22:14
And I waltzed around the house like Bob the Builder for about three days, and I thought that's just a good thing
1:22:19
I've done this by myself. Yeah, so it is positive and negative, isn't it
1:22:24
I mean if nobody knew how to change the oil on a car then we have a kind of event horizon But the fact that we don get to pass on Well we pass on other things won we Scott
1:22:36
I'm sure they'll pass on parts of our personality and I'm sure they'll pick up..
1:22:40
But also advice, just not knowledge. Advice rather than knowledge or, you know, be kind to yourself
1:22:46
Look after your mental health, the things that you're not going to get told unless you go looking for it
1:22:51
It's the things that they go looking for that we're not really going to be able to help. But they're not going to be looking for it anymore, are they
1:22:56
They're not even going to be looking for, you know, when they're having a tough time and, you know
1:23:01
should I go and talk to Dad or Mum about it? Or should I just, I'll stick it, I'll do it, I'll do it
1:23:04
I'll chat GPT, see what it tells me is the right way to deal with life
1:23:09
And people are doing that and there are some grim consequences to it, but also presumably some positive experiences
1:23:14
That is the best example yet of where humans have to regulate
1:23:19
humans have to challenge and do things differently from how we've always done them
1:23:24
because otherwise it's going to run away. It's all going to run away. It's a moment now, isn't it
1:23:28
I can tell from your voice. It's upsetting. It really is because I'm just thinking
1:23:34
well, as my son and my daughter are now the new parents
1:23:38
and I said, well, you just had GPT that son. What if Harriet comes to you when she's, you know
1:23:44
10 years old and wants to help with her homework? You came and asked me
1:23:49
She's not going to ask you. And he went, oh, God, Dad. and I could see his sort of face drop
1:23:54
thinking I know how you feel now well on the plus side AI might have killed us all
1:23:59
yeah we'll be done anyway so make the most of your 20 plus years
1:24:05
on LBC man there it is swings and roundabouts Scott thank you mate
1:24:10
parenting is a funny old business isn't it and that one thing that I recognise
1:24:15
I recognise an awful lot of what Scott described except the bit about knowing how to change the oil on a car
1:24:20
but that idea that you would be of use. So I talked about my dad at the beginning of this hour
1:24:24
and how of use he always was to me in so many ways. And mum, of course, but I don't know
1:24:30
I'm not quite as pessimistic, I don't think, as Scott. We'll find there'll be other things we can pass on
1:24:34
other bits of usefulness. And you know people as well, don't you
1:24:40
In a way that, everything I say about AI, someone's going to send me a message and go
1:24:45
ah, bad news there, James. Anyway, it's coming up to quarter to 12
1:24:49
Mystery Hour on the way at 12. In the next part of the program, we will definitely be answering the question of where the black shorts turned up yesterday
1:24:57
Was it A, at a hotel where the Pakistan under-19s cricket team was staying
1:25:02
and these people took it upon themselves to object because they thought they might, because they had brown skin, be refugees
1:25:08
Is it B, at the headquarters of the Daily Mail, where they demanded loudly and comically that the newspaper buy a new house for the leader of the black shorts
1:25:19
or was it C at the headquarters of Reform UK offering to use the money that they've collected
1:25:25
to protect our women to commission some new polling that would then get placed in the Telegraph or The Times
1:25:32
I will answer that question. I will provide the correct answer and then I'll have further information on one of the other options
1:25:38
which actually happened but not quite in the way that I've described. Are you still with me at the back
1:25:44
Well, that's a pity. James O'Brien on LBC. It is 11.49. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:25:53
where I've got a little... I can answer a question for you. I asked you a moment ago where the so-called black shorts
1:25:59
these are the masked men, definitely not cowards or criminals, who have been turning up in places like Dover or Portsmouth at the weekend
1:26:08
Some people have been terrorising the RNLI. Did you know that? I've got friends who volunteer for the RNLI
1:26:14
and I'm not now going to provide any more information about who they are
1:26:18
because I am frightened of them getting abused by these, what are you going to call them
1:26:24
these proud patriots who won't even show their own faces but will take photographs of our NLI volunteers
1:26:28
and post them on the internet in the hope of bringing unpleasantness down upon them and their families
1:26:34
So where were they yesterday? Were they A, picketing a hotel because there were some brown people in it
1:26:40
that they thought might be refugees but turned out to be the Pakistan Under-19s cricket team
1:26:44
Were they B, at the headquarters of the Daily Mail, demanding that the newspaper buy a house for their leader's mum
1:26:51
or was it C, at the headquarters of Reform UK, offering to give some of the money that they'd raised to, quote
1:26:56
save our women, to spend on opinion polls that would then get miraculously placed in the Telegraph all the times
1:27:03
Right, well, it wasn't C. That hasn't happened. If you were watching Channel 4 last night
1:27:08
you'd know that these characters prefer to do rather different things with their money
1:27:12
or rather with the money that they've raised from their marks and victims and it isn't a it's not
1:27:19
it's not the cricket thing more on that later the correct answer is b so the people who were in dover
1:27:24
and uh portsmouth at the weekend with their faces covered have changed their trousers which is
1:27:31
probably for the best and they were mostly wearing shorts and they turned up at the offices of the
1:27:35
daily mail to demand that the newspaper bought a new house for the mother of their leader um who
1:27:42
I knew I recognised the name. He's a sort of failed kidnapper
1:27:46
who got described, he attempted to kidnap someone for stealing money over
1:27:50
a drugs deal, but they got completely the wrong person. So much so
1:27:54
that, I mean, there's nothing funny about it if you were the victim of this crime, but the judge
1:27:58
in the case even described them as having engaged in really stupid behaviour
1:28:04
I mean, kidnapping people's bad. Trying to, failing to kidnap someone who wasn't the person you were trying to kidnap
1:28:10
I just often find these people as being quite poor examples of what you might describe as a putative master race
1:28:18
I mean who would put these people in charge of anything except I suppose protests outside the Daily Mailer
1:28:23
Well, how do you pick a side there? It's Dick Littlejohn I feel sorry for
1:28:27
Apparently and I haven't had this confirmed he locked himself in the toilet
1:28:31
While this was going on and started throwing photocopies of his own newspaper columns out of the window saying that I'm on your side
1:28:37
lads let me through don't don't leave don't don't attack me i'm dick little john i write the kind of
1:28:42
stuff you love every week but i haven't been able to confirm that um it may be that he's back in
1:28:48
florida where he writes most of his columns um but the cricket story is true as well and henry
1:28:54
riley is here to tell us more hi james it happened on tuesday evening and i'm told by an eyewitness
1:28:59
there were around 40 people who's gathered outside the eight-story mario mario hotel in caution which
1:29:05
as a suburb of Portsmouth, some of whom it's reported were masked
1:29:09
some of which we've seen in recent days. Oh, so there were two correct answers, the world's worst multiple..
1:29:14
Oh, sorry. No, it's all right. No, I'm not apologising to you. I'm apologising to the listeners. Oh, sorry
1:29:18
I'm going to jump in. Sorry, sorry. The correct answer was A and B
1:29:22
although I got B and C the wrong way round from when I first set it up. So technically, the correct answer could be
1:29:27
depending on when you were listening, A, B and C. Some of them were masked, not sure how many
1:29:30
This came two days, as you referenced, after hundreds of protesters blocked roads in Portsmouth
1:29:35
after a boat carrying around 120 people was brought ashore in the city
1:29:39
But on Tuesday, they were protesting after believing that a group of asylum seekers or migrants had arrived
1:29:47
It turned out, though, that the group of people on the hotel floor, because they'd taken up the whole floor, because a lot of them
1:29:52
were players for the Pakistan under-19 cricket team. So what was the grounds for their suspicion? They were just a bit brown
1:30:00
Well, there was one individual who posted four coach loads of migrants
1:30:04
being loaded into the Marriott Hotel near Port Solent, and it appears that Facebook post sparked this off
1:30:13
But yeah, I mean, no evidence. I mean, there was also confusion about the coach
1:30:17
Now, I've been getting reaction of Councillor George Madgwick, who's the leader of Reform UK on Hampshire County Council
1:30:23
He actually went, he says, to help defuse the situation after the false rumours circulated online
1:30:28
that this coach-carrying people had arrived. This is what he told me about what happened
1:30:33
Unfortunately, it appears that the coach company and the brand and model was the same coach company
1:30:38
and brand and model as the ones that took the migrants from Portsmouth on Sunday night, which led to the confusion
1:30:44
I met the Pakistani cricket coach who was understanding, I think is the best word to say
1:30:50
He was aware of the situation that happened at the weekend and he was understanding about the tensions in the area
1:30:56
but he explained obviously that his his lads his cricket lads were a bit concerned and cautious
1:31:01
about the situation i went outside went to speak to the group that were gathering and explained to
1:31:06
the situation to them and informed them that they had mistaken identity these people and they
1:31:12
apologized immediately and left the area within a few minutes oh boy so he's another one who seems
1:31:17
to think that if they had been migrants then turning up in masks to terrorize them would be
1:31:21
absolutely fine. He claims in this situation he diffused it, James. He arrived
1:31:25
at 8.30pm by 9.00pm. This bizarre and distressful situation had wrapped up with everyone going
1:31:31
home. Hampshire police confirmed that. They said no offences had been committed, but
1:31:34
Soumayr Saeed, who's the COO of the Pakistan Cricket Board, said that the team
1:31:39
had reported people repeatedly knocking on their doors during the incident, but that their players... Inside
1:31:45
the hotel? That's what they say. So I presume some of those are outdoor windows, or I'm
1:31:49
not quite sure how that manifests itself, but yeah, people knocking on the doors, but he said that the players
1:31:53
behaved responsibly and didn't escalate the situation. They actually went to play a scheduled match the following day
1:31:59
It's understood that the ECB... Coming out of the ear, taking our wickets. Yeah, well, that's
1:32:03
a cricket joke, isn't it? It is. It's understood that the ECB
1:32:07
checked on the well-being of the Pakistan under-19 squad. They're reviewing their security
1:32:11
arrangements. Interesting as well, Councillor Madrick also said there'd been drones circulating the hotel, but they weren't sure
1:32:17
where these drones had come from, so we're trying to find out more information about that. But this all
1:32:21
came online, James, from seemingly one or two posts saying, again falsely, four coach loads of migrants
1:32:27
being loaded into the Marriott Hotel. Lastly, let me tell you, Amanda Martin
1:32:31
who's the Labour MP for Portsmouth North, called the incident deeply concerning
1:32:35
saying it's completely unacceptable that misinformation has led to young cricketers who are visiting our city being
1:32:41
wrongly targeted. Yeah, but... Who gets rightly targeted? It's almost like everyone's gone mad
1:32:49
And, of course, small boat crossings are down about 43% compared to this time last year
1:32:53
so in a logical universe, the nutcases would be 43% less angry than they were last year
1:32:59
And here we are. Stand Up to Racism say, allowing racists to mobilise like this
1:33:03
every time they become suspicious of a group of non-white people in Portsmouth is extremely dangerous
1:33:08
is racism in action, and has to stop. I think they won, didn't they
1:33:13
Well, they lost the first day. No, I've got it here, don't worry. They lost..
1:33:16
They're playing in Arundel yesterday. Yeah, yeah, so got that. They lost by 10 runs on the..
1:33:20
I don't understand cricket, but they lost by 10 runs on the first day. No, never understood it
1:33:25
What do you want to know? Yeah, Arundel, 25 miles from Portsmouth
1:33:29
Come on. Pakistan beat you by 177 runs. That was the second day, I think
1:33:34
And I read, actually, you bring your Arundel, let me give you my Guildford on Saturday
1:33:40
That's when the final game is scheduled to be played. And, you know
1:33:44
there's another story that I might once have charged you with, but it actually ups... It's just too sad
1:33:48
This headline here, RNLI steps up security after attacks by far-right agitators over small boat rescues
1:33:57
The bravest people I know, actually, on a personal level. I know some ex-military
1:34:02
I don't know people that are in the military at the moment. So in terms of what you might be called upon to do today, the bravest people I know are in the RNLI
1:34:09
And I'm proud to call at least one of them a very close friend of mine
1:34:13
and I can't imagine what it's like when that pager goes off and you don't know what you're going into
1:34:19
or what you're going to face or who you might be pulling or what you might be pulling out of the water
1:34:23
or who might survive or who might not survive and what might happen if you don't do it correctly
1:34:28
or what might happen if you don't get there in time or what might happen if you weren't there to do it
1:34:34
and they are getting attacked now volunteers being told not to wear clothing
1:34:39
that has the RNLI branding on it and to shut lifeboat stations if they feel in danger
1:34:46
This is the United Kingdom in 2026. And they are almost all volunteers, of course, at the RNLI
1:34:53
They do it because they are the very, very best of us. I haven't double-checked, but I'm sure Farage started the business, didn't he
1:34:59
of slagging off the RNLI a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure that it was one of his greatest hits
1:35:05
And here we are now, seeing a heavy security presence around bases on the south coast of England
1:35:11
it's very sad. Henry, so I won't be sending you to look into that
1:35:15
because it's just true and it's too bleak. And all we can do in response, hopefully
1:35:19
is make a donation to the charity, which is, of course, headquartered in Poole
1:35:23
where, wait for it, barriers have been put in place around a memorial sculpture to RNLI volunteers
1:35:28
who lost their lives and around a rose bed to mark the 200th anniversary
1:35:33
of the charities. So protecting our flowers from racists. That's what we've become
1:35:39
and anyone who thinks it's happened by accident or by coincidence well, I've got a rather nice bridge
1:35:45
that I would quite like to sell to you I think we could do with cheering up, couldn't we
1:35:50
0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3 is the number that you need to join in Mystery Hour
1:35:54
which is upon us, it's Thursday, it's 12 noon it's your weekly opportunity to achieve the sort of satisfaction
1:35:59
that is not available anywhere else on your radio dial if you don't know what this feature involves
1:36:05
then I can do two things I can guarantee that you will smile between now and one o'clock
1:36:11
Oh, go on then. You'll laugh out loud between now and one o'clock. And I can guarantee that you will know more
1:36:16
We haven't done this bit for ages, Keith. I'd completely forgotten about it. You will know more by one o'clock than you do now
1:36:24
Absolutely stone cold money back guarantee. James O'Brien on LBC. Good Lord, is that the time
1:36:32
Three minutes after 12 on a Thursday. Time to get our thinking caps on and start solving some mysteries
1:36:38
What is this, you may be wondering if you're new to the programme? Well, it's a little bit different from the other 14 hours of the week
1:36:44
that we could potentially be spending together henceforth. When we wrestle with the major issues at the moment
1:36:50
put the world to rights and solve some of the greatest riddles of our age, this is an altogether more fun business
1:36:57
You ring in with a question. Who? Why? What? Where? When? Wither? Wherefore? Whence even
1:37:04
Someone else rings in with the answer. The magic happens in between the two poles
1:37:08
Somehow the alchemy kicks in and we all have a wonderful time. I'm not even joking
1:37:12
It is just always, always uplifting, isn't it? But, of course, to get involved, I need questions on the board
1:37:19
And to get your question on the board 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need Oh and there a prize Did I ever take it Did I mention the prize My favourite contribution of the week receives a Mystery Hour game of which there are two
1:37:35
One in a box and one in a tin. They are mutually exclusive
1:37:40
What's the correct word to use? They're like, they're completely self-contained. So, you have got two games, effectively, there's absolutely no reason on earth why you shouldn't want both of them
1:37:50
There's no repetition, deviation or hesitation. find out more at mysteryhour.co.uk and if you want to read through
1:37:57
the terms and conditions of the competition under which I do give a game of your choice
1:38:01
to my favourite contributor of the week then you need to go to
1:38:05
lbc.uk and you will find it four minutes after twelve I think that's it isn't it
1:38:11
I can't I can't I just saw anything else I did a bit before I done it that way
1:38:15
round I didn't take calls in the last bit of the last hour so historically
1:38:19
it's a little bit easier to get through in the first quarter of this hour. But that's
1:38:23
not... Well, there's one phone line for you. As soon as I say that, there it goes. Shall we just crack on
1:38:29
Are you good? You good to go? You good to go? I'm good to go? You're good to go
1:38:33
All right, let's go. Jane's in Dulwich. Jane, question or answer? Question, please, James. Carry on, Jane
1:38:39
It's a question that comes from a fascinating fact I learnt when visiting some lovely gardens
1:38:45
in Norfolk recently. Whereabouts in Norfolk? At Holcomb Hall. Oh, lovely. lovely indeed
1:38:52
was there an art exhibition oh no that's up the road isn't it
1:38:55
at Houghton House yes that's right very good that's the seat of the Earl of Leicester Jane oh
1:39:02
that's what I didn't know a lovely beach as well did you walk down to the beach beautiful
1:39:08
absolutely glorious well the fascinating fact I learnt in Hocum Hall is that apparently
1:39:16
strawberries are one of the few fruits that have their seeds on the outside
1:39:21
Oh, yes. With each strawberry having over 200 seeds on the outside each
1:39:28
Yeah. So my question is, how come we're not overrun by strawberries
1:39:33
if each one has got so many seeds, 200, so close to the ground
1:39:38
Well, we eat them. Yeah, but what if we didn't? We don't eat them all
1:39:43
We do eat them all. Oh, bloody hell. I thought you were going to go, wow
1:39:48
No. We ate all the strawberries. If we didn't eat all the strawberries
1:39:52
we'd probably be overrun by strawberries. Oh, God. No, I think I'm..
1:39:56
No, it's a good question. I'm being unfair. Oh, that's so mean
1:39:59
I thought you were going to go wow. No, I'm not going to go wow. I mean, I might go wow later
1:40:04
I'm going to reserve my wow. I might go wow later. But at the moment
1:40:08
the main reason why we're not overrun with strawberries that are covered in seeds
1:40:13
is because we do eat them all. I mean, all of them. Okay. Okay. I was thinking you were going to go
1:40:19
surely we should have a strawberry proliferation. A proliferation of strawberries. That's the name of my third album
1:40:24
Right. It's on the list. We'll see. Why aren't we overrun with strawberries
1:40:29
given that they've all got so... I mean, we should also be overrun by melons, though, Jane
1:40:32
Shouldn't we? Have you ever seen a melon? Have you ever seen a melon? No, no, no. But that's the whole point there on the inside
1:40:39
Yeah, but what difference does it make? Oh, quite a lot in my head. Well, it makes no difference at all in the ground
1:40:44
In the natural world. a seed is a seed, whether it's on the inside
1:40:48
or the outside. In fact, on the outside, it's probably less likely to
1:40:52
succeed because it hasn't got a sort of pod of nourishing matter around it
1:40:56
Oh, you're really diminishing my wow factor. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry
1:41:00
I can tell that I'm raining on your parade. You've really... It's on the list
1:41:06
Stop it. 0345 6060973. Given that strawberries are covered in seeds, why are we not covered in strawberries
1:41:14
That's a good question. Gregor is in Kilburnie in North Ayrshire. Gregor, question or answer
1:41:22
Hello James, it was a question. Carry on. My question is about mushrooms
1:41:27
It's all gone a little bit food-based, hasn't it? It's not a great phone line, but hopefully we'll
1:41:31
stay with it. Go on. Oh, sorry James, I've tried to get a better one
1:41:35
No, not going to happen. I think you've been hacked by AI. On the plus side, it's also going to
1:41:42
cure cancer in our lifetime, so you've got I'll take the rough with the smooth. 0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3
1:41:47
Two phone lines free. Quickly. Geraint. Swansea. Question. Answer. Which? Question. How's it doing, mate
1:41:53
You okay? I'm okay. Yeah, you? Yeah, really good. Just a quick one
1:41:57
I'm follically challenged. I've been shaving my head in the shower with a bick
1:42:02
for the last 40 years or so. Not the same one. No
1:42:07
Go on. Occasionally, I cut my head, but the first sense that I've actually cut my head
1:42:15
is I get a taste of metal in my mouth. This is before I see any blood or before I feel any pain
1:42:21
I get a taste of metal in my mouth. Why is that? Eleanor's really cross with you, actually
1:42:30
She doesn't write much on the screen in the course of the programme but she's really worried about
1:42:34
why are you using a BIC, she wants to know. Why don't you get something a bit better, a bit less hazardous
1:42:39
Well, other razors are available, but, yeah. Do you mean like a little plastic chuck-away one
1:42:44
Well, yeah, occasionally I use the one that my wife uses for a razors. On your head, though
1:42:48
You get one with a bit of movement in it or something like that, or get one of those fancy, like..
1:42:53
Anyway, that's not the question. So you're shaving your head. How often do you do it
1:42:56
Every morning, every other day? About twice a week. Twice a week. And you cut yourself, and you know you've cut yourself
1:43:02
because you can taste metal. Have you ever tasted metal and checked and you hadn't cut yourself? uh occasionally yeah but that's that's where i've maybe grazed my head but there's no blood
1:43:13
so so you think that there is a sort of warning system in your mouth about the state of your head
1:43:18
yes okay i mean or if it's just you possibly yeah maybe i'm just a little bit won't get an
1:43:26
answer but there could be something in it 0345 6060973 is the number that you need i mean that
1:43:32
would be fascinating if we got an answer to that. Shaving your head
1:43:36
cut yourself. Don't feel any pain to start, until you've registered the fact that you've cut yourself, by
1:43:42
tasting metal in your mouth. Natalie's in Manchester. Natalie, question or answer
1:43:47
Question, please. Carry on. Why do dogs' paws smell of popcorn? What
1:43:57
It's a thing. It's not a thing. It is a thing. How do you know popcorn doesn't smell of dog's paws
1:44:06
Is it a thing? Yeah, it's a thing. Ask many a dog owner
1:44:11
I don't think you own a dog, but ask many a dog owner. I do own a dog. I do. How dare you? I do. I just don't go on about it all the time
1:44:17
Okay. Like some dog owners I could mention. You don't know what I do at home
1:44:24
That might be completely wrong. Yeah, so it's on social media, for instance
1:44:30
people are like, oh, you know, the popcorn-y smelling dogs. Oh, well, it must be true
1:44:33
No, but it is, test it out. Smell your dog's paws. It smells very popcorn-y
1:44:38
I'm not going to go home and smell my dog's paws, am I? I finally got the family back from Greece
1:44:44
after the air traffic control thing went down. The last thing I'm going to do, as we have our emotional reunion
1:44:50
is go and say, just wait there a moment, darling. I've got to go and smell the dog's paws. It just not going to happen But it is a thing Lots of people telling me it a thing I think it umami Right I not even I was going to say what the molecule or something
1:45:06
No, I like it. Why do dogs' paws smell of popcorn? Do they always smell of popcorn? I mean, how often do you check
1:45:13
I don't check them that often. Don't check them that often. There will be people checking now, for the very first time
1:45:21
Sasha's done it. Sasha writes, OMG, which means they're quite young. OMG just did it
1:45:27
Correct, that's crazy. The country is now full of people sniffing their dog's paws
1:45:33
as a direct consequence of tuning into this programme. Don't do it if you're driving
1:45:37
All right, why? Why? Why? Why do dog's paws smell of popcorn
1:45:43
03456060973. Well, I knew not. I've gone a bit old English there
1:45:47
I knew not. That sounds better than I didn't know, didn't it? I knew not
1:45:52
Let's go back to Gregor in Kilburnie. Where were we? Mushrooms. I got that far
1:45:56
Yes. Sorry, James. Is this any better? Oh, infinitely. Fantastic. Can I say, I do have my dog here
1:46:01
and his paws do smell of popcorn. This is getting ridiculous. Go on. Amazing stuff. I had no idea. Did you know that before
1:46:06
Were you expecting them to smell of popcorn? Had you come across this phenomenon previously? I've heard it before. I mean, they smell nice
1:46:12
They smell nice. I wouldn't have said popcorn. But, yeah, she's right. Well, you've got popcorn in your head now
1:46:16
If I said biscuits... In fact, just do it again. Wait there. Just clear your mind
1:46:21
clear your mind clear your mind clear your mind clear your mind biscuits biscuits biscuits biscuits
1:46:26
biscuits do your dog's paws smell of biscuits um i'm just smelling popcorn
1:46:32
my psychology experiment has failed anyway back to your question yes so so mushrooms um i like
1:46:40
picking the odd mushroom not that kind and i quite uh it's always best if you dry them out first
1:46:46
and then rehydrate them and they say that if that happens the flavor is much more intense and i've
1:46:51
tried that and it's absolutely true but i don't understand why how do you try what do you mean
1:46:55
well you see you you get your you get your mushroom because mushrooms are like 70 80 percent water
1:47:00
yes you cut them into really really thin slices and you put them in a dehydrator or in the oven
1:47:04
with the door open and then you dry them out and they become really thin little crispy things oh
1:47:08
yeah okay smell and the flavor is so much more intense it's pure i mean actually i joked around
1:47:12
a lot last week but it is pure umami yes definitely especially portini mushrooms are
1:47:17
It's pure. It's about as umami as umami can be when you get a dried porcini mushroom
1:47:24
It's more umami if you dry them out and then rehydrate them, and I don't understand why
1:47:28
Well, do you really not? Well, I don't understand drying them out, because that intensifies the flavour
1:47:33
So you think when it's got a bit more water in it, it's more flavoursome than it was when it was completely dry
1:47:42
Well, yeah, because you add the hot water. Because I don't think that's true. You add the hot water, you get this rush of really strong mushroomy
1:47:48
Yeah, because you've got an essence of mushroom in the dried mushroom
1:47:52
which is going to be much more pungent than the mushroom that's 80%. So what you're doing is essentially you're creating a mushroom
1:47:57
that is about 20% to 30% water instead of 80%. So of course it's going to be more mushroomy
1:48:03
I think you're adding more water than that because I'm immersing these mushrooms in water
1:48:08
I'm not sprinkling it on them. Yeah, but think how big they were before they were dried out. There's no way you're immersing them in as much water as has come out of them
1:48:16
That's true. But then why do they smell more like mushroomy when you add the water
1:48:20
versus when they're completely dry? Because of vapour. Vapour. Because the steam from the hot water
1:48:26
I don't think you'd get that smell if it was cold water. The hot water is carrying them upwards
1:48:34
Is this... Yeah, you might have a point. I mean, there's an element here of osmosis
1:48:46
I knew that was coming. Isn't there? Isn't there? Not as an answer to your question
1:48:51
but the rehydration and the dehydration. This is the first recorded incidence of both osmosis and umami
1:48:58
appearing in the same question. I don't know you might need to check offside on that one
1:49:07
this is a magical moment right I think I've answered it I think you like my answer
1:49:15
it would be nice if we had someone who was qualified yeah okay I'll take it fine
1:49:20
that's the way you want it that's the way you got it but I mean it's so obviously the case
1:49:25
that when you add the boiling water to it the steam carries the fragrance upwards
1:49:29
and the reason why it's much more pungent than normal mushrooms is because it's much more concentrated than normal
1:49:35
But you do you, Gregor. That's fine. I'll try and find you a mushroom expert. I bet he's a fun guy
1:49:43
That's precisely the reaction that that joke deserved. Thank you. Ollie's in Worthing. Ollie, question or answer
1:49:50
Oh, no, sorry. I've been told off. It's 12.16. James O'Brien on LBC
1:49:55
It's 12.18. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. Given that they are absolutely covered in seeds
1:50:01
Why aren't there more strawberries all over the place? When Geraint is shaving his bald head and he cuts himself
1:50:06
he gets a taste of metal in his mouth before he has seen any blood or felt any pain
1:50:11
Why do dogs' paws smell of popcorn? And why do rehydrated, dried mushrooms
1:50:17
smell so much more mushroomy than any other form of mushroom? 03456060973 is the number
1:50:25
You need to answer any of those questions, or indeed to ask your own. And now, an interlude
1:50:31
So I got quite a few people complaining about me misusing umami
1:50:36
It started last week and then it kicked off again this week. So I made a little promise to myself
1:50:41
when I was dealing with Natalie's question about the popcorn, which I think may be vaguely relevant, but no matter
1:50:50
I'm not going to do umami anymore today because, you know, I don't want it to turn into another thing
1:50:55
that I have to remember because you tune in expecting some nice familiar comedy moments
1:51:00
and then I got the mothership of umami. You can't have a conversation about dried mushrooms
1:51:05
without talking about it. They're probably the most umami thing of all. So I'm sorry and I'm going to try very hard
1:51:10
not to bring umami into the conversation when it's not actually relevant to the conversation
1:51:16
And there it is. Ollie's in Worthing. Ollie, question or answer? Morning, James
1:51:21
My question... Oh, afternoon, actually. My question is regarding time and the division of time
1:51:27
So, you know, minutes, hours and days. Why is it done in the six times table rather than in the kind of the ten times table, the metric way
1:51:36
It's probably me being a millennial metric fan, but why is it done in sixes rather than tens
1:51:44
I mean, it is done metrically in some ways when you think about milliseconds and you get down to breaking it down later in history when they started breaking things down further
1:51:56
I mean, there's two answers to this. There's the sort of logical answer
1:52:00
and then there is the historical answer. The historical answer would be
1:52:05
because that's what the people who first started recording time decided to do, to which you respond by saying why
1:52:11
to which I respond by saying, well, it's actually really easy to divide
1:52:16
Well, I wonder whether it was heart rate or something like that. You know, resting heart rate is 60 beats or..
1:52:20
I mean 12 breaks up nicely doesn it into quarters and halves So you know 5 and 2 are not as neat as 3 and 6 That would be part of it But it going to be the Sumerians or the Babylonians
1:52:37
I was going to say an ancient mathematical system maybe that's not, you know, modern
1:52:41
How many fingers have you got? Uh, 10. Oh yeah, it's not that big
1:52:45
There you go. So it's Babylonian or probably Babylonian or Egyptian. Egyptian could be. Yeah
1:52:52
Anyway, we'll find out. Would it make life any easier? Well, it's just sectionals, and I'm running my 5K
1:52:58
It's easier to divide by 10 than it is 6. Yeah, that's true. I'm sort of thinking it'd be quite a good..
1:53:03
Did they do it as an April Fool's once? Did Terry Wogan make..
1:53:07
Someone did it as an April Fool's when they said, time is going metric. Everyone has got really cross
1:53:12
It's not one I know, it's my time. All right, don't rub it in. Everyone's going to have to chuck their watches
1:53:18
All right, why is time done in 12s and 6s? rather than in easier-to-process tens
1:53:24
03456060973. Thank you, Ollie. Paul's in Saddleworth. Paul, question or answer? A question, please
1:53:32
Carry on, Paul. So, I drive around a bit and I see loads of signs
1:53:36
for battles and things. You know the brown signs that tell you
1:53:40
that the battle was with more. Do you know, before, when the kids were a certain age, we had a little thing on long journeys
1:53:45
where we would, whatever journey we were on, if we weren't on a tight schedule
1:53:49
we'd always go down one of those roads to at least one brown site
1:53:53
There you go. That's back to Scott in Birmingham. That's something you can do with the kids and the grandkids, isn't it
1:53:58
It's something you can pass on. You can go to places. Hey, I can't help with that. Anyway, sorry, carry on
1:54:02
So I got to thinking, if you've got two opposing teams fighting each other
1:54:07
the victors aren't really going to be that bothered about the people they've just finished off
1:54:12
And is there some sort of battle etiquette at the end of the battle that all the bodies got buried properly
1:54:18
or did they just leave them lying around for the birds to eat? That's a nice question. I mean, they'd have robbed them blind, wouldn't they
1:54:23
They'd have stripped them of anything valuable. Yeah, but I mean, once they've won and carried on to where they're going next
1:54:30
they're not going to waste time getting rid of people. So what happened to everybody? Did the local villagers come and tidy up or did they just all get left
1:54:38
Yeah, I mean, a friend of mine who's Kosovo was telling me about a field
1:54:43
I think it's the field of Kosovo, which has extraordinary significance in the Balkans
1:54:48
the battle that happened in, I think it was 1349. And poppies grow there every year
1:54:54
even if they dig the ground up and try and grow something else there. The poppies just come back year after year after year
1:55:00
It's part of sort of Kosovan folklore. I just mention that because it's an incredibly famous battlefield
1:55:08
And Flanders is poppies as well, isn't it? So you wonder whether there's some sort of relationship
1:55:13
between buried bodies and poppies. But the question of what they do with the bodies
1:55:17
at the end of a battle... Yeah, I thought there might be some unwritten rules. They like some etiquette at the end of it
1:55:23
There wouldn't have been etiquette in the Dark Ages, would there? But I don't even know that there was etiquette
1:55:28
in the First World War. I mean, it's a brutal question, but I like it
1:55:32
What happens to the bodies at the end of a big battle? Because you never hear of mass graves being excavated
1:55:37
and, like, finding, like, medieval soldiers. Like the Battle of Hastings that's in the news at the moment
1:55:44
you know, with the tapestry. You hear about plague pits and things like that
1:55:48
but you never hear about war graves. I mean, unless it's an attempt to hide evidence of a war crime
1:55:54
but soldiers who have perished in legal warfare. I don't know. Someone will, definitely
1:56:00
Thank you for that. I like it. Do you ever... I mean, I suppose you're working when you're driving around
1:56:04
so you can't pop down to visit the battlefield and stuff like that. I just drive past and think, one day I'll come back
1:56:09
You never do. There it is. There is the universal condition. Thank you, Paul
1:56:14
12.24 is the time. Christine's on the Wirral. Christine, question or answer
1:56:18
Hi, James. Hello, Christine. Question, please. Carry on. Why has margarine gone so slippy
1:56:26
All of it? Yeah, well, the ones we use. Really? Can't keep it on the knife between the tub and the toast
1:56:34
Since when? When did this start? Well, a tub lasts us probably about six weeks
1:56:40
because it's only two of us. But when did you notice that it was getting runnier? Oh, months ago, months ago
1:56:46
But just months, not years? No, months. So, what, this year? Do you reckon it's a 2026 thing
1:56:51
No, before that, 25 maybe. Late 25, the margarine got runnier. It's not runny
1:56:57
It looks fine, but it will not stay on the night. Oh, so it's still just as viscous or turgid
1:57:02
Oh, yeah. But it's somehow... You haven't changed your cutlery? Between the tub and the toast
1:57:07
I've dropped it about five times. From tub to toast. You've not changed your cutlery
1:57:11
You haven't bought new cutlery? No. Changed brand? Haven't changed your brand of margarine
1:57:17
No. Same brand. It's not like... It's not where we've established. It's not in the tub
1:57:22
I mean... No. And this was true in January. It's not the heat wave
1:57:27
No. Why are you laughing? That's a really good question. I'm like Columbo
1:57:31
I'm the Columbo of margarine. No, it's the same in the cold, rather, as the hot weather
1:57:37
Do you think your fridge might have got ever so slightly warmer? No, it's brand new
1:57:43
How brand new? A year. There it is. No, it's not. Yes, it is
1:57:53
No, it's not. Months, 25 to 20, 25 to 20. This coincides exactly with when you got the new fridge
1:58:01
Yes, it is. You know I'm right. I've bloody done it I am the Columbo of margarine
1:58:06
that's extraordinary just one more thing when did you get the fridge
1:58:13
I'm right, I'm right I'll put it on the list why are you nervous
1:58:20
oh I was last time I thought it'd be better this time you're pretending to be the Columbo of margarine
1:58:24
how can you be nervous around me? so embarrassed on my behalf perhaps
1:58:28
but nervous at least I can talk this time It's the fridge. It's the fridge
1:58:34
It's not the fridge. It's the fridge. It's a brand, it's a new fridge. Coincides more or less exactly with when you first noticed
1:58:40
So for a month or two, you wouldn't have thought, you'd have just thought it was, you know
1:58:44
you were imagining things or it was, you know, the different brand or a batch, a dodgy batch
1:58:52
I'm going to give a tub to my friend and see what she thinks. After two or three months, you sort of say
1:58:56
hang on a minute, this isn't a one-off. This is slippier than it used to be, this margarine
1:59:01
and lo and behold, it's because you changed your fridge around about the time
1:59:05
Yeah, but there was nothing wrong with the other fridge. No, I know. There's something wrong with the new one
1:59:09
You've got it set. I'm not too comfortable. No, but you've just got it set
1:59:13
Did you fiddle with the settings when it arrived? No, the men did
1:59:18
So you've got it set ever so slightly warmer or less cold. It's colder
1:59:22
It's not. It's warmer. Oh. It's ever so slightly warmer. Well, actually, unless margarine's a weird substance that gets..
1:59:30
No, you've got it just set a couple of degrees, probably half a degree warmer than the old fridge
1:59:37
Right, so you want me to turn it down and then see what happens? Yeah, ring back next week
1:59:41
Okay. I'm not even joking. I love it. If I'm right, I'm retiring
1:59:50
After doing that, it's two things in one show. The cancer story and the AI is going to kill us all story
1:59:55
being exactly the same story. Will Guy has been in touch to say, yep, you're right. And then..
2:00:00
...the mystery of Christine's margarine. Oh, wow. It's like an episode of Ludwig
2:00:07
Thank you. It is 12.28. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
2:00:12
Vieri is in Frankfurt, which means it is the dog question that is about to be answered
2:00:19
It is indeed. It is indeed. Well, dogs have very particular feet
2:00:23
because it's the only place where they can sweat. Dogs cannot sweat on their skin
2:00:28
just on their feet. so that and the natural occurring bacteria that they have on their feet
2:00:33
which gets stuck between their toes and the fur and underneath the port
2:00:38
makes it smell a bit like popcorn or tortilla chips Some people have said that they smell like Doritos
2:00:45
or Wotsits actually so it is just a sort of savoury snack or a biscuit would be a bit sweet
2:00:50
so it's more of a savoury It's a mixture of oil and bacteria
2:00:56
and skin pretty much, yeah. It's equivalent of Keith Armpit. So it's foot odour
2:01:02
Yes, but it's sweat that is drying and giving off an odour because of the bacteria
2:01:06
Plus the bacteria. Yeah, absolutely. Some people love it. Some people love it
2:01:10
You can see why. It's a nice smell. And it's a well-established phenomenon. If you have a small dog
2:01:15
you can even put the whole paw inside your nose and really smell it. But if you have a big dog, you can't
2:01:20
How big is your nose? Well, only if you have a chihuahua, you can put your paw in
2:01:24
I know somebody who had a chihuahua who used to do that regularly. It's a bit difficult when you've got a Labrador
2:01:28
I like it. Qualifications? I work with dogs. And your professional name is
2:01:34
Dr. Dog. Dr. Dog. We spent a long time coming up with that one, didn't you, Vieri
2:01:39
It's coming up to half past 12. There it is. Beautiful answer to a beautiful question. Round of applause for Vieri
2:01:43
Thank you. Thank you. Amelia Cox, how's your headlines? James O'Brien on LBC
2:01:50
It is 33 minutes after 12, and you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
2:01:55
I get off and ask best things about this job. I say, well, there was this time when Marge on the Wirral..
2:02:02
Marge on the Wirral. Her name's Christine. She rang in about Marge. About margarine getting slippy
2:02:08
And I thought I'd solved the mystery by being the Columbo of spreads. And then my inbox exploded with people saying that it is true
2:02:16
I agree with this lady. Margarine has definitely got slippier. And I haven't changed my fridge, says Phil
2:02:20
Russell writes, this lady is correct about the margarine. This is actually something I have noticed over the past year or two
2:02:25
and I have not changed my fridge. Chris says, I've noticed this margarine slippiness thing too
2:02:30
Damien says she is right. It is the same with me. Can confirm, writes John
2:02:36
my margarine has also definitely changed in the last year. And Rachel in Liverpool
2:02:41
I just stuck the road from Christine, who in my mind now I'm calling Marge
2:02:45
I've got to stop calling her Marge. Her name is Christine. My Marge is definitely more slippery too
2:02:50
I'm glad someone else has noticed. It appears to be very widespread
2:02:55
Really? Nothing? Nothing for that? Sheesh. Well done, Keith. And that would mean
2:03:05
that I was wrong about the fridge, and that it's probably like Cadbury's chocolate all over again, and they've changed
2:03:09
the recipe or something to save some money, and the consequence of that is that it..
2:03:13
There's a proverb, isn't there? There's many a slip from page to mouth
2:03:17
or something like that. There's many a slip from top to toast. But that might be why. Anyway, it's why it's still on the board
2:03:24
I'm not taking a round of applause for that. Tim is in Ilkeston. Tim, question or answer
2:03:29
Hi, James. Question, please. Carry on. Right. I'm unbelievably excited. I might actually get my puzzle solved today
2:03:39
Go on, then. So I take a travel mug thing to work with me today
2:03:48
and I have coffee in it, because if I put tea in it, it doesn't taste right
2:03:52
Oh. Oh. Ah. It does not taste the way tea should taste normally
2:04:00
Yes. There's a tang. There is a tang. I can describe it
2:04:06
No, I know what you mean. So, why does tea not taste right when you have it in a travel mug
2:04:15
but coffee isn't affected? I think this might be a variation on the question about how the cup
2:04:26
like porcelain and bone china and porous clay and all those different types of cups have an impact upon how your tea tastes
2:04:35
So you're used to a certain... But it doesn't explain why... Maybe
2:04:39
And because coffee is just a stronger flavour than tea, you don't notice it in the same way
2:04:46
but we did do, I'm sure someone rang in about a year ago. I'm disappointed now. No, we're not there yet
2:04:52
Someone rang in about a year ago asking why their tea tasted different in different cups, didn't they
2:04:57
Do you remember that? Yeah. And we got an answer. We got an answer to that, I think
2:05:01
And it's a very... Yeah, I can't remember what the... No, nor can I now
2:05:05
The shape, the constitution. But why does it affect the taste of tea
2:05:10
and not the taste of coffee? Of coffee. Millions of people around the world
2:05:15
want to know the answer to this question. It's a true riddle for our ages
2:05:21
Yeah. So, yeah, tea tastes rank in those cups, whereas coffee tastes fine
2:05:27
Yeah. You're on. Why do travel mugs and flasks have such a negative effect on tea
2:05:33
while barely any effect at all on coffee? I like it. Yeah
2:05:37
Thank you, Tim. 12.36 is the time. Gavin is in Jersey. Gavin, question or answer
2:05:43
Good afternoon, James. is a question, please. Go on. Why is crossing our arms
2:05:48
a behaviour which we copy? So I'll give you an example. I was at a running group
2:05:56
the other week and there's about... You were where? You were at a what
2:06:00
A running group. Oh, a running group, yes. And we were sort of meeting at the start point
2:06:03
and one person crossed their arms and then within about maybe two minutes
2:06:08
about six or seven people then also crossed their arms. Hmm. I've got a variety of theories for this one, Gavin. Are you interested in any of them
2:06:18
Go on then. Well the first one is mirroring which is a kind of subconscious psychological condition to create an air of comfort and familiarity in a social context So you know you might run your hands through your hair and then someone else will run their hand from there
2:06:35
But I think it's also got an evolutionary dimension because if you're folding your arms, you're telling the person that you are with that you are not a threat and you are not going to do them any harm
2:06:46
which I thought the same because obviously yawning is a similar behaviour
2:06:50
but it feels very very odd that we would still do it
2:06:54
yeah but I mean that's evolution baby and we still do it
2:06:58
even when we don't need to anymore you know I mean if it was
2:07:02
if it was perfect evolution I always think that we'd have two big plates
2:07:06
in our mouth instead of teeth that can still get rotten we'd have like grind
2:07:10
and sorry I'm going off on a completely unreasonable tangent so I think it's going to be a psychological
2:07:16
very much similar to yawning. But I'm just putting it on the board
2:07:21
So why is arm-crossing contagious? Would be the five-word question. Yeah, would be, yeah
2:07:26
Or four. Love it. And it wasn't just because everyone was cold? No, because over here it's still quite warm to be for
2:07:32
We're still in the 20s. Are you? Oh, very nice. Okay, why is arm-crossing contagious
2:07:36
Why does tea taste dodgy in flasks when coffee doesn't? Why has Christine's margarine got softer
2:07:43
how do they deal with the dead bodies at the end of big battles
2:07:47
why do we measure time in 12s rather than 10s why do mushrooms, rehydrated dried mushrooms
2:07:56
have such a much more pungent aroma than dried mushrooms why does Geraint taste metal in his mouth
2:08:02
when he's cut his head while shaving in the shower and why are we not overcome with strawberries
2:08:08
given that the average strawberry contains about 200 seeds I'm going to need some answers soon 03456060973
2:08:15
is the number you need to provide them, but we can squeeze in one or two more questions. To it, Brian is in Sutton
2:08:20
Brian, question or answer? Question. Carry on, Brian. How come, given that the moon
2:08:27
has got no natural luminosity, how come we can see it during the day
2:08:32
with the sun behind it? Why is the sun behind it? Well, because the moon is in between the Earth
2:08:42
and the sun. Yeah, but it's closer. Closer to us. Yeah. But the sun could be anywhere in that orbit
2:08:51
No, but we look at the sky. We look at the sky and we can see the sun
2:08:56
and then alongside it, we can often see the moon. Yeah, but it's not behind it
2:09:02
in the sense that it would be providing no light to it
2:09:06
Light doesn't go in a kind of narrow, straight line, does it
2:09:11
Well, it does. It goes in parallel straight lines. And so, if you held a torch in front of you, looking at you
2:09:18
then if you held a coin up, you wouldn't see the face of the coin because the sun is so bright
2:09:24
Yeah, but I think it might look to us like the sun is alongside the moon
2:09:28
but it's not. It's miles away. Yeah, it's away from the coin
2:09:34
And the light is hitting the moon. The light is hitting the moon from the sun
2:09:38
Or it's reflecting off the Earth and going back and hitting the moon. Is it
2:09:43
Yeah. Hmm. No, probably not. But it just fits the parameters of the question, doesn't it
2:09:50
In the first place. Well, it fits the parameters incorrectly. Yeah, well, who cares
2:09:54
It bounces. This is the age of Trump and Farage. Who cares about the truth? Oh, yeah, that's right
2:09:58
It comes off the sea. So, yeah, all right. You're right. I mean, I don't know
2:10:02
So I'll get you an answer to it. But I wouldn't be amazed if the light reflects from the Earth onto the moon
2:10:07
Yeah, I'd be interested to know. because that means that we are reflecting a lot of light
2:10:12
and if the ice packs are melting, then that reflection is going to be less
2:10:19
I guess so, yeah, maybe. Crikey, we've got enough to worry about without bringing that into our content
2:10:24
But Keith's got that look on his face that I'm talking absolute jibber-jabber. I shall listen in truth
2:10:31
Well, let's find out. Yeah, exactly. So why can we see the moon
2:10:34
even when the sun is behind it. 03456060973. My brain goes a bit funny on planetary questions
2:10:45
I don't know why. It's a sort of contemplation of the infinite, isn't it
2:10:49
Or something like that. I just can't never feel that I've quite got my head around it
2:10:52
And yet so many people study it and do brilliantly. I mean, the moon is spherical
2:11:01
So light... Anyway, this is what I mean. My brain's gone. Alex is in Carlton in Lancashire
2:11:07
Alex, question or answer? Answer, James. Carry on. So it's an answer on the strawberry question
2:11:13
Yes. To a certain extent, there's two. Depending on the variety of strawberry
2:11:20
Yes. It depends on how successful the seed can survive. But to a certain extent, the caller was wrong
2:11:30
And actually, we could be invaded by strawberries if we're not careful
2:11:34
or if we don't eat them all. Yes, of course. Because, so, with the garden strawberry
2:11:41
which is the one that I think Nicole was talking about, that's a hybrid of two different strawberry species
2:11:49
one from Chile and one from America. But when they've been hybridised
2:11:54
it shrinks the seeds and makes the seeds harder to germinate. And that basically makes strawberries impossible
2:12:03
I mean, it's very, very hard to grow from seed. But a wild strawberry
2:12:09
Yeah, so an alpine strawberry, a wild strawberry. They're tiny little things, aren't they? The little ones, yeah
2:12:14
They seed really, really well. Incredibly well, actually. And is that going to be clear
2:12:20
Our climate is not conducive to them then, or why aren't we covered in alpine strawberries
2:12:26
Well, to a certain extent, it's because people don't really like them, because the fruit that you get from them
2:12:31
is really bitter and very small. Yes. So they're just, unless you want them, you know
2:12:38
in your garden as a sort of ornamental thing, they're not of any real use, the alpine strawberry
2:12:44
But in connection to where she may be wrong strawberries the easiest way to reproduce them is through runners So they little sort of baby plants that come off of the mother plant
2:12:59
And, you know, so they come off and then they'll sit on the soil, root themselves and become their own plant
2:13:07
And sort of garden strawberries can produce sort of five to six, seven, eight runners a year
2:13:13
But they take a bit of cultivation, though. Yeah, so... So that's also part of the answer
2:13:18
We eat them all, and they don't actually... They don't grow wild, as it were, very easily, very prolifically
2:13:26
Well, they will, like I say, they will as runners. So as runners, they will..
2:13:31
So if you plant a strawberry plant in your garden and wait three or four years
2:13:36
you'll have probably about 30, 40 strawberry plants. Crikey. So I own a plant nursery
2:13:42
What a lovely job. I know, it's very peaceful. I'm just having my lunch at the minute
2:13:46
Oh, amazing. What are you having? Oh, just a sandwich and crisp
2:13:52
Nice and easy. I thought it would be something really kind of organic and fruity
2:13:57
Oh, no, something quick and easy, unfortunately. Fair enough. I've got a sausage roll after this, actually
2:14:03
Oh, well, enjoy. I've got a fancy one. Anyway, we digress. So, go on. The seeds..
2:14:10
Why are we not, just in the centres, why are we not overrun with strawberries
2:14:13
given that the plants are prolific? So, because in most cases, when they're grown commercially
2:14:23
they're grown sort of in raised troughs. Yeah, so the varieties that we have..
2:14:33
No, sorry, finish that sentence. So the runners can't what? So the runners can't then, you know
2:14:37
sort of get onto the floor and root themselves and continue growing. But as I was saying
2:14:42
If you plant a strawberry plant in your garden, you will, you know
2:14:46
if you plant it in the corner of your garden, give it a couple of years, it'll take over a sort of two, three metre area
2:14:51
There you go. No, I like it. So it's a sort of yes and a no, really, your answer to this
2:14:55
It could conceivably happen, but the main reason why it probably doesn't is because we eat them all
2:15:00
Yeah, well, that and, like I say, because the plants themselves have been hybrids
2:15:04
the seeds just can't, you know, they struggle to grow anyway. And qualifications, just reminders
2:15:10
I know you've already told us. So I'm a horticulturalist, and I own a plant nursery in Tarleton
2:15:14
Would you like a free advert? Oh, I'd love one. It's Hibs Plant Nursery, H-I-B-B-S
2:15:19
H-I-B-B-S, Plant Nursery in Carlton, Lancashire. Lovely stuff. What's your proudest thing
2:15:25
What's the thing you're proudest of that you've done? Just starting it, really
2:15:31
Getting it up and running. I don't know if you'd grafted something or come up with your own variety of..
2:15:36
No, no. I'd love to do it once. Well, you will. you will dream big Alex
2:15:41
dream big you've just got you've just got a round of applause on Mystery Hour mate that's like this
2:15:45
that's all I need for today that's made me day the sky's the limit
2:15:49
it's 12.47 James O'Brien on LBC hello James can you say hello
2:15:55
to my dad Simon and my grandad Peter who are both great fans of yours yes I can Alex
2:16:00
and I just did so hello to Simon and indeed to Peter
2:16:05
Richard is in battle Richard question or answer it's an answer I'm afraid
2:16:10
No, we love answers. We need answers. To which question? What you do with bodies in a battle
2:16:16
But you're in battle. I am in battle, yes. That's fantastic. Carry on
2:16:22
Up until the Boer War, records were not kept of who died in battles
2:16:29
All the valuables would have been scavenged. The bones were ground up and ploughed back into the fields
2:16:39
Wow. How, I mean, immediately? Well, after the carrion and the scavenging
2:16:46
all the people that died at Waterloo were grabbed back into the field
2:16:51
So if you were to excavate at Culloden or Waterloo or anywhere like that
2:16:55
then you would find probably bones, an abundance of bones. Or in battle
2:17:01
Or indeed in battle, yeah, which is in the news at the moment, isn't it? Yes
2:17:06
With the tapestry arriving in town. Wow. Qualifications? I was a Navy chaplain, and I researched it when I was asked to
2:17:16
a remembrance Sunday service for the Institute of Chartered Surveyors. Good Lord
2:17:21
And do we know what they did in the Second World War? Was it the same there
2:17:25
After the Boer War, they started to keep records of those that had died
2:17:33
Yes. it wasn't until the first world war and lutchins and the all the war graves commission and whatever
2:17:42
that they started to bury them even if they didn't know who they were and put up a tombstone
2:17:48
so that's a brilliant answer thank you so much um a round of applause feels a little
2:17:52
inappropriate in the circumstances but it's all we've got another head of the
2:17:57
Thank you. Thank you, Richard. That's pretty cool as well. A bloke rings in to answer a question about battle
2:18:04
and he's in battle. Nick's in Hertford. What would that be appropriate to us
2:18:08
No idea. Question or answer? Answer, James. Carry on. Okay, so the big margarine mystery
2:18:15
Come on. It's not the fridge. She's been back in touch. Well, you were on the right track
2:18:21
because it's to do with the melting point of the fat, which is in the margarine
2:18:27
So margarine is a recipe of vegetable oil, probably sunflower, water, and air
2:18:36
and they make an emulsion which then solidifies. Now, depending on the recipe
2:18:43
normally driven by cost of oils compared to water and air, they may reduce the percentage of oil or fat in the margarine
2:18:53
So therefore, the consistency is therefore softer. So when oil is expensive, it gets slippery
2:19:00
Yes, yes. So it's more likely to be down to Donald Trump than a new fridge
2:19:04
Well, it's an interesting point, James, because actually, because of the increase in price of crude oil
2:19:11
a lot of vegetable oils have been going into the manufacture of biodiesel Which is why olive oil has gone up at a rate of knots recently as well Well yes and no That the crop as well isn it
2:19:24
The olive oil market's gone up because of the crop of olives
2:19:28
that have failed, I think, in Spain and Greece and Cyprus. But I know this because I'm heavily involved in the manufacture of peanut butter
2:19:37
Oh! And if you notice, the trend at the moment is like some brands do 100% peanuts
2:19:45
And when you open the jar, you get a little reservoir of oil
2:19:49
You do. And that's because they don't add another vegetable oil into the recipe
2:19:56
so that that particular vegetable oil has a lower melting point than peanut oil
2:20:03
so it stays what they call stable. Good Lord. Christine was actually
2:20:09
she got back in touch to say the fridge is actually two years old, she'd forgotten when she got the kitchen done
2:20:13
so it couldn't be what I said it was it predates the margarine I thought it would be linked to temperature in some way
2:20:19
but the temperature of the environment it was being kept in rather than the melting point of
2:20:23
the actual margarine and loads and loads of people have reflected or described
2:20:27
a similar experience, I know you told us but tell us officially, qualifications? I am a peanut
2:20:33
importer that's involved in the development of peanut butter for all the main brands and supermarket brands
2:20:40
And my nickname is Nick the Nut. Nick the Nut. I was going with Nutty Nick first, actually, but Nick the Nut
2:20:48
How much difference is there? I mean, I don't want you to get into any trouble with your clientele
2:20:52
but how much difference is there between brands? Well, there's two different types of peanut butter
2:20:57
One is what they call 100%, which is just made with just peanuts
2:21:01
which is the one which has got the fat, and the other brands, the supermarket brands, are pretty much, the recipes are pretty much the same
2:21:08
but they are all different. There's a third type. There's a third type, go on
2:21:13
The roasted peanut one. No, they're all roasted. Why do the Manny Life ones taste more roasted
2:21:19
Well, Manny Life is an interesting story, actually. He's built a story on, I mean, effectively
2:21:25
he takes them to the edge of being burnt. Yeah, they're my favourites. Well, there you go
2:21:29
But when you get it, you have to really give it a good mix, right? You certainly do, yeah
2:21:32
That's why I buy it in the big tubs, because it's easier to mix it up. So here's a tip for you
2:21:37
Go on. When you get it the first time and you've got the big reservoir of fat on top
2:21:41
give it a really, really good mix and then put it in the fridge. Oh, there you go
2:21:45
Because then the peanut oil stays solid, basically. It stays consolidated. That's brilliant
2:21:51
Oh, wow, yeah. You enjoy your work, don't you? I love it. If you ever need any help eating, you know where I am
2:21:57
Have a round of applause. I flummin' love peanut butter. It was at my boarding school
2:22:02
It was worth more than its weight in gold peanut butter because you could fill yourself up on toast
2:22:07
but if you had peanut butter, it was actually a pleasure rather than just a question of fuel
2:22:11
Alex is in Nottingham. Alex, question or answer? It's an answer for you, James
2:22:15
Carry on, Alex. So, it's about the question of time and why it's in base 12 and not base 10 maths
2:22:24
Go on. So, it comes down to the ancient Sumerians. Not the Babylonians
2:22:29
The Babylonians. Babylonians. Well, which one was it? The Sumerians or the Babylonians
2:22:33
Well, it comes from ancient Mesopotamia. You can't really pin it down to either one
2:22:38
Okay, go on. So basically, if you hold out your left hand and have a look at it, you've got
2:22:42
three bones in each finger, right? Yeah. And if you count along with your thumb, you've got
2:22:48
12 altogether, 12 finger bones. Yeah. So that gives you the 12. Are you serious
2:22:55
Yeah. That's amazing. And then on your other hand, what you do is
2:22:58
you put each finger out, So you do one 12, count one 12 on your left hand
2:23:04
put your thumb out, count another 12, another finger out on your right hand
2:23:07
Then you've got five 12s, that makes 60. That's why you get 60 seconds in an hour
2:23:13
And you get two sets of 12, make 24. That gives you the... Because you're a human abacus
2:23:18
Yes, basically. And that's why it became the units of measurement of time
2:23:23
Yes, because they used to use base 12 maths, we now use base 10
2:23:27
Qualifications? I listen to a lot of history podcasts. I drive a lot
2:23:31
That'll do. That'll do. Love it. Round of applause for Alex. That's brilliant
2:23:35
That's absolutely brilliant. Lovely. Thank you. I love that. No, well played. Mark Zimbarrow
2:23:39
Mark, question or answer? It's an answer about the sun and the moon
2:23:43
Go on. It's not like you. It's normally word questions for you. Oh, well, yes, you see
2:23:47
You're a renaissance man, aren't you, Mark? You've got a man of many tallies. Go on, then
2:23:51
What is it? The sun and the moon. Well, the sun is only behind the moon during an eclipse
2:23:55
like the one we recently had. Yeah. But when the moon is near to the sun in the sky
2:24:00
other than that, you can't actually see it typically because the sun is so much brighter
2:24:05
Yes. And before an atherne eclipse, you can't see the moon. The moon then comes onto the disk of the sun
2:24:11
Yes. But at other times, the moon could be anywhere if it's above the horizon
2:24:16
because of the movements of the three bodies. That's what I was trying to say. That's what I was trying to say
2:24:20
If it's above the horizon, there's the bit missing. And it may or may not be reflecting the sun
2:24:26
and they may not be in a position to reflect the sun. Obviously, at full moon, it's very much reflecting the sun
2:24:32
It's got high albedo, reflecting power, and that's why the moon is as bright as it is
2:24:37
There it is. But, of course, it might be below the horizon. So his physics was wrong
2:24:40
The physics in his head was wrong, wasn't it? I guess so. The angles and things were wrong in his head
2:24:47
The idea that the sun is behind the moon, that's only true during an eclipse
2:24:52
Yes. Qualifications? um keen astronomy fan uh currently chairperson of the barrow astronomy society wow we get all
2:25:01
the big names on here mark the chairperson of the barrow astronomy society have a round of applause
2:25:06
thank you mark thank you always a pleasure no he is a genuine race man uh that's it for today um
2:25:12
i've got to pick a winner or two um oh i don't know oh it's got to be blimmin um christine with
2:25:21
the Marge, hasn't it? Could Margarine, Christine. Christine Margarine. That's it from me for today
2:25:26
If you missed any other show, you can listen back on our free Global Player app or the LBC app
2:25:29
and indeed listen to a range of podcasts, including mine. So do download the official LBC app for free
2:25:34
from your app store now. Coming up at four on LBC, it's Tom Swarbrick, but now it's time for Sheila Fogarty
2:25:39
James O'Brien on LBC
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