How the England team have changed | James O’Brien - The Whole Show

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it's three minutes after 10 and i do i wish i could find a way to look after you if you are
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not just cold but um utterly utterly unengaged by what most of the country is still obsessed with i
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sometimes come on air in the morning and find myself uh thinking what's the hardest position
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to adopt this morning what would be the true i mean it has to be something that i i feel genuinely
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But what would be the hardest corner to defend, the hardest position to defend
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I suppose at the moment it would be coming on air telling people that love the football that they're idiots
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Come on, grow up, will you? It's just 22 men kicking a bladder around a field
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And I can't do that because it wouldn't be honest. It wouldn't be true. But if you are in that camp, I do feel for you
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And I do wonder whether one day we'll find a way of engaging that position, those feelings
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It would be wrong to do so today, because I think it's hard to count, isn't it
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We can't put the numbers on it. I haven't seen the TV ratings yet, but pretty much the whole country stopped last night
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As we touched on yesterday, even people who never watch football or only ever get engaged by the big international competitions
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and of course that level of engagement increases exponentially the further into the tournament that we go
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and we've only gone further than we went this year, once before in our island history
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then obviously it is by far the biggest story in town. It's double. Did you know that
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Andy's just pointed it out. I already knew this one, Andy, actually. It's double now since they put the song out
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When they put the song out, it was 30 years of hurt. And now it's 60
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It was 30 years of her. And do you remember that felt like a long time
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I suppose you may not. You may not have been born when the Lightning Seeds
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and David Baddiel and Frank Skinner put together what is arguably the most successful football song of all time
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It may not be your favourite. I'm a New Order man myself. But it was still obviously a beautiful tune
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that continues to reverberate around the country every two to four years
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depending on which tournament it is you're talking about. But, yeah, so no apologies for doing this
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And don't waste up on sending me a text to say, oh, it's so boring, because it isn't
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It just isn't. You are. You're boring. If you're not engaged by or interested in the feelings of almost everybody around you
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then I'm afraid you're the problem, not them. And I won't make a big thing out of that, and I won't say it exponentially
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And, of course, you know that the line about Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland exist
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and none of us care, as Ian has written, that's not true either, mate. And also, it's a really sad thing to be doing in the morning when the massive majority of the population in the country that you inhabit, if not the kingdom, is hugely engaged and still hugely interested in it
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If you think that the television viewing figures in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales last night for the football were zero, then I have a rather nice bridge that I'd like to sell you, mate
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If you'd form an orderly queue, people who think that the television viewing figures outside of England and the rest of the United Kingdom were low, negligible or zero, then roll up, roll up
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I've got a beautiful bridge to sell you. Seven minutes after ten is the time. So how do we do it
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How do we, keeping our spirits up, as it were, recognising the sadness going too soon
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And this could be, you know, if normal service is resumed and we cease to be a team that regularly gets into the final stages
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of international tournaments, as we were for most of my life, then this could be the last ever football podium we do on this programme
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And there's a little bit of me that was tempted to do an old-fashioned style
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There's two things I'd like to do. It's mad, isn't it, that you can be on the radio for over 20 years
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You can, as we currently do, present the most popular, the most listened to speech radio programme in the history of British commercial radio
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I'll say that again, because, you know, no one else will. The most listened to speech radio programme in the history of UK commercial radio
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I mention it quite often, because it probably won't last. You know, what goes up must comes down, so make hay while the sun shines
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and insert whatever your favourite cliché is, given that that appears to be what we're doing at the moment
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but it's mad that you can be a presenter for over 20 years of the most successful speech radio show
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in the history of UK commercial radio, and I've never played a record, and I've never done what did the manager get right
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or what did the manager get wrong last night. I've never played a record, and I've never done a football phone-in
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If you think about how massive a part of our radio heritage
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playing records, do they still call them records, Keith, in this kind of context? Yeah? Thank you
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Playing records and doing a football phone-in, that probably makes up about 50 to 60 percent more, isn't it
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What percentage of radio that you can listen to on any given day will involve either football or playing records
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Almost all of it. Ah, I've never done either. I might have played a little snatch of music
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There is a radio tradition, which I think dates back to the late 1700s
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that you play a vaguely appropriate snatch of music to introduce a topic that has something to do with the subject of the song
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So if you're talking about, I don't know, smart motorways, you might play a little bit of Cars by Gary Newman
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But that is a little bit dinosaur. Even they, of course, don't play out the whole record
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Don't play out the whole record. And how do you do a football phone-in? I haven't really listened to them for a long time
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I used to listen to 606 on Five Live. But how do you even do it after a night like last night
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when it was relatively obvious what went wrong? You do not when you go one-up against
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what is arguably the best team in the world, certainly contains the best player in the history of football
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you do not say, well, let's spend the next half an hour inviting them to punch us in the hope that we don't get knocked over
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Come on, show us what you've got, world champions. We will endeavour to keep you out
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Worked against Mexico, don't get me wrong, but surely there is pretty close to unanimity
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among people who watched it with even a modicum of understanding that we got it wrong
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Thomas Tuchel got it wrong. You should not have piled 11 players behind the ball against that team in that context at that time
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It should have just carried on. You were winning. You were playing better. You were on top. You had the bulk of, but just carry on doing what you're doing
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Make a couple of, but anyway, that's why I've never really, really enjoyed football phone-ins
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Because, you know, everyone's a blooming expert. I think everybody should be required to add at the end, well, when you've explained what you would have done if you were the England manager
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and men are weird, aren't we? We are so weird. You know how many men think that they could beat Serena Williams at tennis
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despite the fact they haven't picked up a racket since 1979. Men are just mad
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We all think, oh, yeah, given a chance with a prevailing wind, I could probably get a few runs against Brian Lara, you know, given a chance
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We do. We honestly think this. We honestly think, yeah, if the cards had fallen differently
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I reckon I probably could have played for a first division. It was just rubbish. You couldn't have done
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Ain't there players who were brilliant, who never actually made the grade
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But all men almost all men normal men innocent men almost all men have somewhere inside a
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Completely unjustified belief that they could do it happened to me towards the end of last season when it looked like Kidder Mr Harriers weren going to get promoted I found myself thinking well maybe if I went into the dressing room before the game
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and gave them a bit of a pep talk, gave them a bit of a motivational speech
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you know, I reckon I could probably get, what are you talking about
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And yet so much of British radio is contingent upon the idea that Bob in Broadstairs will be better at managing a football team
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It's why that Ricky Tomlinson film was so good, isn't it? Bob in Broadstairs would do a better job of managing the England football team
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than some of the most supremely qualified people in the history of the game. And it works
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We like the idea. I would require you, if I ever did that, to say at the end
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yeah, but anyway, we probably would have lost 10-0. We probably would have lost. Here's what I would have done
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I'd have done this. I'd have done that. Four at the back. Three at the front. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Bing, bang, bong
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Oh, yeah, but anyway, we probably would have lost 78-0. But we don't believe
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We honestly think. And pubs would probably go bust if they banned conversations
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that were predicated upon the presumption that the bloke over there would do a better job, not just in the dugout
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but actually on the field. Oh, he should have played it there. Why didn't he put... Oh, play it up, do this
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I mean, we did the cognitive dissonance yesterday. We did the madness of it yesterday
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The absolute impossibility of pinpointing why we care so much. why we and again don't waste up in sending me a text to tell me that you don't
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um yeah actually i probably could have scored a few runs against brian lara come to think of it
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given that he was a batsman not a bowler but um i don't know um what i think i want to do today i
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don't think there is much point doing the um doing the the post-mortem are you i presume
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and they're doing it everywhere else at the moment. Oh, should we do a post-marche? I tell you what I want
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I want your biggest positive. I think that... I know it's a little bit Pollyanna-ish
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It's a little bit too soon. But I think this has been the culmination of something
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that Gary Southgate set in motion. An 18-year-old said to me last night
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that one of the things that she found most incredible about all of this was that the team, the players
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all appear to be, or not all, but most of them appear to be really good boyfriends and husbands
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An 18-year-old woman said that to me last night, and it kind of stopped me in my tracks
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Because I grew up in an era where footballers were routinely getting into trouble
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for having sort of borderline orgies, or having affairs with their teammates' exes
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or behaving in ways that were, well, unseemly, or seedy, or sleazy
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It was fairly commonplace. The private lives of footballers were plastered all over our newspapers
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And either they employ crisis management PR that is the best in the world
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or something quite significant has changed. And the England football team is now made up of
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I don't mean to criticise everybody who has pulled on the shirt before
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but they just seem to be, despite the fact that they are as rich as Croesus
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they just seem to be much nicer lads than they used to be
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The number of them that are still with their childhood sweethearts it puts a song in my romantic idealistic heart
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It's such a lovely thing rather than running off with pop stars
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or, you know, shacking up with whatever the modern day equivalent of a page three girl
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I don't want to sound sententious and I certainly don't want to sound old-fashioned
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but I don't think I do because I'm describing modernity. I'm describing what's going on now
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If you're in your 20s, you would probably balk at what the team used to look like
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how the England players used to be portrayed. We've had tournaments where the major focus of attention
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was the wives and girlfriends. They would be the story. They even had their own nickname
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Wags. It's not, I grant you, the most imaginative nickname in the world
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Spoiler alert, it stands for wives and girlfriends. But somehow, in the last, what, 10 years, is it
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that's been completely turned around. So that's my takeaway, actually, is that I'm the father of two daughters
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and I'm not an anorak. I follow the football. I'm fairly up on it
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I was playing a game last night. So close your eyes and see how many you can name
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Because I wanted to do it to politicians. I reckon Keir Starmer could probably get up to about 15 or 16 players, couldn't he
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I mean, your proper fan is going to include the bench. Close your eyes and name as many players as you can
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that have got a cap during this World Cup. Or indeed haven't
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But when... Well, you get a cap if you go. Or rather, if you're a substitute
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Proper fans, politicians saying, oh, it's marvellous. I love the football. I do
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I remember years ago, I won't tell you who it was because I quite like them
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But I did a TV show with a politician who was talking about how important football was
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in their constituency, and they didn't know that their team was actually playing that night
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I sort of said, as we came off air, I said, you probably want to check the score
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And she sort of went, well, what score? What score? And that's fine. You know, I think that politicians do that
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But I wonder how many politicians, and Burnham and Starmer could, I'm pretty sure
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They could get fairly deep into the squad without any clues or help
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But I was doing that last night, and thinking, I got up to about nine, I think
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So I'm mid-table. I'm a mid-table football fan, I think it's fair to say
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And my big takeaway as a father of daughters, I realised yesterday
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was that if your daughter's brought home one of these lads, you'd be quite pleased about it
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If your daughter had brought home, again, I'm slightly reluctant to name names
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but if your daughter had brought home someone who was famous for having an extramarital affair with his teammate's ex
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you probably wouldn't be celebrating, unless the money was more important to you than your daughter's happiness
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you probably wouldn't be celebrating. If your daughter brought home someone who'd been in the news of the world last week
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for a five-in-a-bed romp, you probably wouldn't be celebrating. Am I right? I am right, right
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If one of your daughters brought one of these lads home, not only would you be thinking, well, that's my retirement sorted
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but you'd also be thinking, oh, that's nice. What a nice young man
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I've turned into that old lady in the back of the AA advert, haven't I
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Do you remember that one? He's a very nice man. Oh, he's a very, very nice
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He's a very nice man. He's a very, very nice man. I've turned into an old lady sitting in the back of a car
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being driven by a roadside assistance person. Again, I'm showing my age
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You may not remember that. So, the positive. But what's the biggest positive
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And I've shown you it doesn't have to be something on the pitch, although you can by all means go full anorak if you want to
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I'm not suggesting that we should be celebrating. We lost. And I think we probably lost as a consequence of a tactical mistake
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coupled with the fact that we were up against an absolutely brilliant team
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Quite why you would do that thing against some of the finest goalscorers on the planet
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Say, come and show us your best. Come and have a go. It is a bit like walking into a boxing ring and putting your hands by the side Thinking well we ahead on points if we can just stay on our feet until the end until the bell rings then we going to win the fight But let not bother punching the other bloke now because we ahead on points
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So you just stand there with your hands by your side, getting absolutely pummeled
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thinking that you're going to be able to stay on your feet. And then, of course, we didn't. You couldn't
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So, what's the positive? What's, what, and actually, what's changed? Are we still having hydration breaks, Keith
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Or should I talk right through to the half past ten? We're still having hydration breaks
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Well, as someone who follows football, England, not necessarily football, so you only really pay attention
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when it is the national side doing this. And, of course, you know, if you're not English
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you watch as well. You consume the same media that the rest of us consume. You're aware of the same stories
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What's changed? What do you think has changed? Say, if you're Scottish, the coverage of the England team
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We'll talk when Scotland gets to the semi-final of the World Cup. We'll talk about Scotland. I'm not being glib
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What's changed? It just feels really different. It feels really different. It can't just be because we're doing better
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The newspapers no longer abuse these men, no longer treat the manager like a sort of national punch bag
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what's the biggest positive takeaway 0345 6060973 and what's changed
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during the course of your viewing life the last 20 years the last 10 to 20 years
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it seems to me that the public's relationship with the football team
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has changed almost beyond recognition and because it's happened incrementally we haven't necessarily noticed it
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as much as we would have done if it had happened overnight it's a completely different feeling from what it was 10 20 years ago why i mean what what are those
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conflicting contrary feelings but why so oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three yeah hit
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the numbers now you will get through actually i i don't imagine that this one is um well we'll see
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won't we what the appetite is to have a a form of post-mortem but hopefully an upbeat post-mortem
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rather than a gnashing of teeth, sackcloth and ashes post-mortem. What's the positive that you take away from this experience
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from this whole tournament? And why does it all feel so different
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from how it felt under Graham Taylor or Terry Venables or, if you prefer, back in the day
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It's 10.21. James O'Brien on LBC. I think I'd like some female voices on the show today
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I think that speaks a little bit more directly to the point I'm making about what's changed
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Possibly because of the success of the Lionesses and the increasing popularity of women's football
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But it does feel as if it's a much more equal opportunity sport
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both to play, of course, but now also as a consequence, perhaps, of that to support
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So, as a woman who is perhaps a little surprised to find how engaged you've been
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with the events of the last few weeks, what do you think has changed
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Why does it feel so different? and of course, what is your biggest positive takeaway
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from the last few weeks? Vijay is not a woman, but he is in Stevenage
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which is almost as good. Vijay, what would you like to say? Yeah, yeah, so two things
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What's changed is basically the whole world is now seriously playing football
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Lots of teams. In the past, England was like usually in the favourites
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because they play a lot of football and elite and fairly well-off country and team
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But that's what's changed now. It's very hard. And the positive is England got into the semifinals
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They're the top four countries. Maybe the top three if they beat France
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But top four, anything more than that is very greedy. Yeah? I love you
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Yeah, stop being greedy, everybody. Yeah. Yesterday, after the game, the commentary yesterday was all about, you know
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the mistake by the manager and the players didn't do this and that. they got us so much fun over the last few days
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that I really appreciate all that. And, okay, now I'll just watch the final
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and maybe the playoffs, and I'll be happy. But you are heartbroken
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Just a little bit, yeah. I mean, really just a little bit. Because, I mean, I think this is a fascinating psychological point
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in the idea that, you know, coming second or third, I'm very much of the view that if you get a silver medal
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or a bronze medal at the Olympics, you're an absolute legend. but a lot of elite athletes
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will actually be disappointed with silver or bronze because they really, really want gold
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and I guess that is just a question of character it's a question of how you're made up
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you're very much a bronze medal is brilliant but some people are
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well, we didn't win gold we might as well go home Yes, that is sad if you do that in life
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life isn't fair like that it's basically, you know there's a lot of teams here
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see how many teams the most ever played in this World Cup and to get to the top four
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all the hurdles you've got to face, you know, Mexico and Norway
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these are hard hurdles and they crossed them, you know, they got here and I'm happy
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I don't know if we did very well, is the kind of, I mean, no offence
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I don't want to sound ungrateful, I don't know if it's the kind of positive I'm looking for because it suffers from a dose of the bleeding obvious
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doesn't it? I mean, we obviously did very well, but you're right, looking at some of the coverage today
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You think we'd gone out in the first round. Why does it feel different? Why does the team seem to have a completely different relationship
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with the rest of the country now from what it did 10, 20, 30 years ago
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Well, it's social media, it's the television, it's people like you. But that should have made things worse, Vijay
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That should have made things worse. But everything I saw on social media was a positive
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You know, people are singing and celebrating, going to the pubs. You know, it's making everyone very happy
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And the way, you know, when it started off, you know, it's going to be in the USA
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it was a bit sad at the start because there was all a lot of politics going on. But it got better and better
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It has. I mean, I think those of us who suggested it was going to be the worst World Cup ever
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because of Donald Trump and the state of the states have been proved categorically and spectacularly wrong
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But the so-called golden generation, some of them seemed like nice enough lads
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but they were not necessarily people who you sort of felt were wonderful examples
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and not necessarily paragons of virtue, but young men who, I hate to sound like such an old git
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but you'd have been quite pleased to see your daughter bring home. That seems to me to be one of the biggest changes
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Yeah, everyone knows the teams. I mean, all the ladies who are watching, they know the team
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they know who they're playing, they know what the score is, they know, you know, all these things
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And women's football as well. I think that's a big part of it
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I wonder how big a part the Lionesses have played in the overall change of mood
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I mean, that's why I'm keen to hear female voices today on the programme
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27 minutes after 10 is the time. 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need
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We may be going a bit early on this Everybody still in mourning and so the idea of celebrating what nice lads they are may be a little bit premature but you know me i i kind of i can help it once i
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got an idea in my head i want to explore it further um and that's why we're not necessarily
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doing the sort of classic football phone-in what what about that idea um again possibly too soon
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of silver and bronze being something worth celebrating coming fourth coming possibly third
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although nobody really cares about the, what do they call it? There's a word for it, isn't there
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The sort of final that's not a final, the losers' playoff. Nobody really cares about whether they come third or fourth
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Well, at least I don't think they do. But the celebration of success for generations of England football fans
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who've never really come close to silverware, there is, I suppose, some consolation in having done quite well this time
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Tom Daley at his first Olympics, absolutely chuffed to bits to win any medal at all
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That's my approach to these things, but some people think that winning, coming second or third
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who wants to be second, Enzo Ferrari said. They're the first of the losers
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There's two completely different psychological conditions there. I'd take a silver medal any day of the week
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but I understand perhaps that to be the absolute gold standard, you need to think that gold is the only prize worth pursuing
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You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC as we continue to survey..
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Well, what are we surveying? The horror, the sadness, the heartbreak of England
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coming closer than they've ever come to the final stage of a massive international tournament
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the closest they've come since 1966. The gap between... Keith just told me this
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so if it's not true, blame him. The gap between that song, Football's Coming Home
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being released, and now is longer than the gap between that song
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Football's Coming Home, being released, and 1966 when we actually won the World Cup
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There won't be much in it because it's 30 years either way, right? But the gap between the release of three lines is 29 years
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nine months and 20 days from the time of England winning the World Cup
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And today it's 30 years, one month and 26 days. So that is how much hurt there has been
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Right, I want female voices and I want to know what you're taking away from this tournament
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in a positive way and why the relationship between the people and the players
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feels completely different and infinitely better than it ever has before. Hit the old numbers now, you will get through
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James O'Brien on LBC. It's 10.33, and if you are not familiar with this programme
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then you may be a little surprised at the angle of the conversation
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that we're having today, particularly the bit about the feelings. The way that we... I mean, I grew up..
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Do you know I did the first interview? I told one of my daughters this last night, and she didn't know
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Which means that's extraordinary, because if you do listen to this programme on a regular basis
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you've heard all of my anecdotes about a million times. So do you know what anecdote I'm about to share now
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No, you don't. It's not Eminem, Keith. Shut up. Do you know what anecdote I'm about to share now
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A career-changing moment for me. I did the first newspaper interview with David Beckham
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after he was sent off for fouling Diego Simeone during the World Cup
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Simeone's son, of course, on the pitch last night, David Beckham in the crowd. They've subsequently made up, I saw it this week
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It was reported. I put so much work into getting that interview
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It's probably the hardest I ever worked as a newspaper journalist because I was on the Daily Express, which was not really a particularly popular newspaper
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or the newspaper of choice for one of the most sought-after interviews in the world
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But I got it. I spent the day with David and Victoria up in Manchester and we did a wonderful show in the paper
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with a sort of cover on the internal supplement and all that kind of thing. I had the first ever interview with David Beckham
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after he was sent off. And people forget he was public enemy number one. He was a complete pariah
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they were burning his effigy on bonfires that's not a figure of speech, I'm not exaggerating
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they were burning his effigy on bonfires and quite extraordinary turnaround in public perceptions of him
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partly and probably largely because of what he subsequently did on the pitch
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but also because of how his behaviour and his conduct off the pitch was very carefully managed
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and very carefully looked after hands up if you knew that story did you know that story? You didn't know that story
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And, I mean, some days you actually listen to the show, right? Yeah. Well, there you go. So my own daughter didn't know that story
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So at that era, Beckham stood out because he seemed to be such a nice boy
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And so many of his teammates sadly didn't. You know, even some of the ones that you really like now
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were getting into trouble for visiting brothels. Do you remember that? Getting into trouble for having relationships with their teammates' exes
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And all sorts of what I would loosely describe in a sententious manner
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as slightly sleazy behaviour. and the new lot, the current team are either keeping these stories out of the newspapers
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or they're not behaving like that and I wonder why has society changed
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why do they just seem to be much, much nicer men? we'll go to Lucy and Jonathan next
27:51
but before that, there is a suggestion this is lovely from Dodie
27:55
I think the players have changed because society has changed I'm 40, my sister is 10 years younger
28:01
and I think her age group can be linked to this more than mine when I was growing up, we wouldn't be friends with many girls
28:07
The generation after mine and subsequent generations are much more likely to be friends with girls
28:13
and just to hang around girls more. I think a lot of men are becoming a bit softer around the edges now
28:19
Although there's still bravado, obviously. It's not as bad as it was when I grew up
28:23
The typical lads have drifted away. And maybe that's part of it
28:28
I don't know. And when we were really macho, and when they were falling out of brothels at 4 o'clock in the morning
28:33
and having affairs with their teammates' wives, they weren't getting as deep into these tournaments as they are now
28:39
So I'm afraid you don't get the comfort of thinking that machismo and bravado can somehow be translated into success
28:46
I don't know. I don't know. Lucy's in Battersea. Lucy, what made you pick up the phone
28:52
Because you asked for women, James. Oh, it's a story in my life, Lucy. I'm 30, so I am that younger sister of that other woman
29:01
Oh, lovely. Yeah, so it's all looped together. And the reason I'm ringing is because I can really see the difference with Gen Z versus millennials
29:09
Right. I think the science behind, like, smartwatches and aura rings, we're all just more aware of late nights, substance abuse
29:17
and how that impacts your health, let alone on a professional level. I also think in regards to..
29:23
You mean following it in what would once have been quite a nerdy way is now quite normal
29:29
Completely normal, yeah. How interesting. So like me and several of my friends
29:33
we've given up drink, and I know I'm not a professional footballer. Yet, yet, Lucy
29:38
One day. But yeah, that's the thing, it's like, for them, the stakes are even higher
29:43
So then going into the club and getting pictures for it, people are so much more aware
29:47
there's probably so much more ramifications in doing so as well. That's really interesting. So, you
29:51
know, there's always that great story of George Best, and it's a really bittersweet
29:56
story, actually, when he's supposedly someone, one into his hotel room, a member of the hotel staff
30:02
and he's lying on a bed with Miss World, surrounded by wads of £50 notes
30:07
and they say, where did it all go wrong, George? Where did it all go wrong? And that's the bittersweet element of it
30:13
is we kind of celebrated the debauchery, for want of a slightly less 19th century word
30:19
whereas now everybody knows that even if you're the best player in the world
30:23
you'll be even better if you're not out on the lash every night. Yeah
30:28
also from a mental health perspective we know so much more and men, I had a masseuse the other day
30:35
he was 25 and he spoke to me like a therapist and I said to him, you are Gen Z
30:38
you can just listen and get it so much more so it gives me hope for the future of men
30:43
to be honest that's a win, that is a positive it gives me hope for the future of men
30:49
I love that, and yeah and that actually answers all of the questions I've been asking
30:53
about why the positive takeaway is and why things do feel different. Are you too young to remember when it
30:59
was all quite toxic? I love Posh and Beck, Wayne Rooney, the whole thing. And that's
31:05
the other part. The Wayne Rooney documentary, what's happened with the Beckhams
31:09
the younger generation are seeing the consequences. And they also have social media and recognise
31:15
their platform is that much more important compared to when David Beckham was
31:19
young. He didn't have a channel communicating from a very young age
31:23
No, he couldn't get his message out there except via me in the Daily Express. I'm not even joking
31:29
It was a big deal at the time. It's almost impossible for younger people to believe
31:33
In a world where there was no social media, the decision about where he would give his first interview
31:38
after becoming public enemy number one in this country as a part of a kind of media rehabilitation process
31:43
was absolutely crucial. Crucial. And, I mean, Lucy's dead right. They wouldn't even need to do a newspaper interview now
31:50
They could just do a few TikToks or do a sit-down on YouTube or come unfiltered to the public
31:57
without having to go through the lens of interviewers or journalists. Lovely stuff. I really like that
32:02
I film every one of my 54 years when a 30-year-old just sort of opens the blinds
32:07
and lets the light in like that. Oh, Eleanor, sorry. Speaking of blinds, a mate of mine got in touch yesterday
32:13
He needs the number of the bloke that rang in the other day because he's just bought a new house
32:18
It's full of glass. It's heating up like a pressure cooker at the moment. Beautiful house. He's absolutely delighted with it
32:23
but it was obviously built without this current heatwave in mind, so he needs to get in touch with the bloke that rang in
32:29
We gave him a Ray Liotta, you remember? We gave him a choice between a Ray Liotta or a free advert for his company
32:34
and be still my beating heart, he chose the Ray Liotta, so we gave him a free advert for his company as well
32:40
But don't let me go home today without getting those deets off you to pass on to my man
32:44
Thank you, Lucy. Jonathan's in Staines. Jonathan, what made you pick up the phone? Hi, James, how are you doing
32:50
Well, I'm Argentinian. I showed the game. Wow. That's bold. And I have my own thoughts about it
32:55
I bet you do. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Were you wearing a shirt last night
33:01
I mean, have you worn your Argentinian-ness on your sleeve this week
33:05
Were you in company last night of England fans or were you watching it with fellow countrymen
33:09
No, no. Well, somewhat, Italians. Yeah, okay. So Italians are, you know
33:16
all our Argentinians are half Italian, so... So the Italians were cheering for Argentina, were they
33:22
Of course. See, I'm coming round to Rupert Lowe's point of view now with regard to deportations
33:29
Go on, go on. I get your point. I would understand every Englishman today would like to deport
33:34
But you're not a 100% Englishman yourself. No, I know. Of course I'm not
33:39
If Ireland had got through to the final stages, I would have been very torn
33:43
My loyalties would perhaps have been very torn. but sadly they didn't even get to the front
33:47
to the starting line this time. It's fine, it's fine. A lot of Irishmen and Scottishmen today are happy
33:53
Yes, well, I don't know about that. That might be one of the other things that's changed as well, actually
33:58
in the nastiness that seemed to be endemic to it, celebrating the failure of a team that you didn't like
34:04
rather than the success of a team that you did like. That seems to have gone into retreat
34:09
It certainly hasn't disappeared, but it seems to be a little less prevalent
34:13
than it was back then. So let's have a football chat. What do you think happened last night
34:18
What are your thoughts on the whole tournament? Well, on the whole tournament
34:24
for Argentina, it's always an accident, it seems. We're not the same team
34:29
For England, I think it's... I mean, this was a shot. And I was talking to your colleague here
34:38
I think it's a mentality thing. and even maybe Thomas Tocco, who everyone is like lambasting this morning
34:46
he saw that happening. He saw a few plays and I said, OK, we suddenly gave up
34:51
We were dominating the game. We didn't have the ball, but all the chances were English
34:57
And then suddenly we are almost in a war against our own goal
35:04
I mean, Kane was a defender. you know So you're baffled as England fans
35:10
are baffled you're confused about why we didn't carry on playing as well as we did
35:16
for the first hour Yes but the fact that everyone points at Thomas Tackle
35:21
we have of course we have a lot of banter and say
35:25
you're bitter that's just banter but also it also happens But we are quite bitter
35:30
it's not just banter No, no, I understand We are quite bitter
35:34
Let's not be under any illusions about that Jonathan. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah
35:38
But we can't always make a joke about it. Yes. But every team in the world
35:45
you know they all say, you can hear Gary Neville last night, it's their old story, you're winning 1-0
35:51
you go back, and suddenly the other team has the space, the time, to do everything they want, and they have the trust
35:57
And of course, you give it to possibly the ultimate comeback team in the history of the world
36:02
Well, that's why I was so depressed. My wife told me off for being so pessimistic
36:06
because I was sitting there going, this isn't going to work, this isn't going to work, this isn't going to work. You don't go into a ring with Mahamad Ali and say
36:13
well, we're ahead on point, so we don't have to hit him anymore. We'll just put our hands behind our side and try and dodge every punch
36:20
But as an Argentinian newscaster would say, what would have happened if it actually succeeded
36:27
Because we did it many times. You can go back in history, the most hated Argentinian teams
36:33
were winning matches 1-0. Argentina-Brazil in 1990 Canicia scored one shot in the goal
36:42
he scored Maradona's pass, that's enough that's enough Brazil had 20 shots on goal
36:51
You parked the bus What did you think watching it? Because I mean admittedly
36:58
I sort of get a bit pessimistic anyway or at least I begin to
37:01
when I start to hope I start to talk myself out of hoping
37:05
but did you think, were you comfortable, were you confident at 1-0 down that they were going
37:10
to come back as usual? So, you know, on the first pick for save on the bottom, he saved one and said, okay
37:19
we're going to win it. Even before the subs came in when he got rid of two midfielders and put two more defenders that never works We know that We lost many games doing that That never works And he like they gave up I said to my Italian friend they gave up
37:37
We're going to win. Yeah, that's what I said as well, although with rather less joy in my voice
37:41
than you had at the time, Jonathan. I think it's fair to say
37:45
Just to clarify one thing, for all the expat Italians or the people of Italian heritage in this country
37:51
they weren't all cheering for Argentina. Lucrezia Millerini's been in touch. the ITV anchor, to say
37:56
not all Italians are cheering for Argentina, mate, my dad in Italy is gutted for England
38:01
and so am I. But you know why? Why? Because who gives the score
38:08
We are in the verge of winning the fourth. Who else has four workouts
38:12
Yeah, all right, mate. It was all right, mate, back in your box. It was all going so well. We were getting on famously
38:17
I'm joking. Thank you. And good luck. And congratulations. although possibly a little bit soon
38:23
to get a charming and delightful Argentinian on the radio. Bitter pills, bitter pills
38:31
1040, he's right though. Argentina fans sitting there saying this isn't going to work
38:34
and an England fan sitting there, almost every England fan I think sitting there
38:39
saying this isn't going to work, but it's football. So as Jonathan rather brilliantly reminds us
38:43
it could have done. Excusez-moi. Have you seen the tattoo story? there is only one tattoo story in town at the moment and the game i want to play
38:54
involves you guessing what the tattoo story is with the proviso that obviously you don't know
39:03
so you've no idea what the tattoo story is did tom mention it this morning so if you were listening
39:08
to tom and he mentioned it you're not allowed to play this game i'm not sure he did but the tattoo
39:12
story in the newspaper today, I think you're going to successfully guess what the
39:18
tattoo story is. Simply based on me telling you there is a tattoo World Cup story
39:24
in the newspaper and it's brilliant. What is it? It's 10.47. James O'Brien on LBC
39:35
Have we ever done a phone-in on regrettable tattoos? I used to be a
39:38
bigot regarding tattoos. I use the word advisedly. I used to be an idiot
39:44
And I was immovable in my view. Some of my best friends are covered in tattoos
39:49
I'm not even kidding. And I used to think that, oh, I wouldn't want my child to be taught by someone covered in tattoos
39:55
I don't know where it came from. Well, I do know where it came from, oddly. I worked it out when I was writing my second book
40:00
It came from an experience when I was a child in a department store in Kidderminster
40:05
when I popped in to see my mum who was working on the Estee Lauder counter
40:09
and she was very discombobulated and my mum is very very rarely distressed she was very very
40:16
rarely shaken and it turned out that somebody had come into the shop and kicked off who who had
40:22
a spider's web tattooed on his face so when i was trying to work out where my bigotry with regard
40:28
to tattoos came from i was just digging back it's something i learned to do in therapy just digging
40:32
right back going back why would that where would that and and then suddenly i thought god it was
40:36
Spider-Man, in Owen Owens, in Kidderminster, in about, it'd be about 1970, 1980, no, 1981 or two
40:46
And that's why in my head, because mum was upset, tattoos were a really big no-no for me
40:53
It took years to work that out, and as soon as I worked it out, boof, it's gone, the prejudice
40:57
has gone, the bigotry has gone. Perhaps you could try it with, or maybe not you, but someone you
41:02
know could try that with racism or the anti-immigration sentiment that's been carefully
41:06
stoked in this country. Because it's never actually directed at people that they know
41:11
it's always directed at somebody else that they've read about or somebody awful in the news
41:16
which you'll use as a stick with which to beat everybody who wasn't born here or everybody who
41:22
came from overseas. I mention that because this is today probably the most regrettable tattoo in
41:31
the country sean carrington and it may be one of those stories that turns out to be a hoax tomorrow
41:37
but at the moment i don't think it is um sean carrington who's a roofer 36 years old got on his
41:45
calf and it's big it's not a little sort of you know a subtle little ink it's a big old tattoo
41:51
covers almost his entire calf almost the back of one leg below the knee a massive depiction of the
41:58
World Cup trophy with the words England World Cup winner 2026 written underneath. The 36-year-old
42:05
admitted that the decision was, and I quote, impulsive. Now England have lost to Argentina
42:11
he plans to have the words only joking added to the tattoo. He told the Daily Telegraph
42:16
I'm just impulsive, really. No kidding, Sean. I mean, you can say that again, mate. I'm just
42:21
impulsive, really. If we lose, I'm just going to add the words only joking afterwards. So there is
42:26
a 550 quid tattoo, inked by a company whose owner said yesterday
42:32
I did tell him, I did talk to him about the fact
42:35
that he wasn't going to be able to wash it off, but he insisted that he wanted to go on. Jamie Taylor, the manager at Holy Trinity Tattoo
42:41
said, I did say to him that it's permanent and it can't wash off. Not that I don't believe we can win
42:46
he said before last night's game. He is a lovely guy and he was the life and the soul of the studio that day
42:51
I'm very happy we did it. I was unsure at first, but he was adamant and to him it was a bit of fun
42:55
and he would get it done anyway. So, I don't know. A bit of fun
43:00
Impulsive fun? Or a life of regrets stretching out in front of him
43:06
Suzanne is in Northwich on the question of, well, various questions with regards to last night
43:11
None of them particularly cheery, but we search perhaps in vain for the positive
43:16
Suzanne, what would you like to say? I'd like to say, first thing is, you're asking about women calling in
43:23
and you've got one of the gobbiest going. Welcome. Yeah. I think, and you were talking about some of the changing attitudes
43:35
and how we like them. And I think a lot of it is the psychological support they're getting
43:41
and the mental health support they're getting. Talking about things. Yeah. And this is Gary Southgate's great legacy, isn't it
43:51
Yeah. Did you see Dear England? Did you see it on the telly, the play or the TV drama
43:56
I cried. Yeah, that James Graham wrote, because he really nailed the fact that Southgate went into it
44:02
And it's a shame that it's a word that's got so much baggage attached to it now. But he just made the team woke
44:08
He made the team really care about their own welfare. And therefore, because when you're looking after yourself
44:13
you become a lot better at looking after other people and looking after each other. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and also the work that he's done since
44:26
Yeah. Other people's psychological, the younger people's psychological help. Nutrition, psychology, mental health, all of these things that are the opposite of that old George Best story, you know, where did it all go wrong
44:39
Or I think he said himself, I spent it all on money and I spent it all on women and fast cars and the rest I squandered
44:46
We do seem to have reversed that kind of... Yeah. ...celebration of irresponsibility
44:52
And as for last night match I a Leeds fan since the 70s Yeah I used to disappointment Yes I suppose you are I mean almost everybody is used to disappointment because even the teams that have enjoyed
45:06
and, you know, Leeds won the title, didn't they, when Eric Cantona was playing for them
45:11
but even teams that win it several times in a decade then often go on to have periods of disappointment
45:16
Almost all football fans are familiar with disappointment. It's just the kids who aren't, the kids who supported Liverpool back in the day
45:23
or the kids who support... Oh, don't say that. My son's a little punk. Well, there you go, or City at the moment
45:28
What about, final question, what about that difference between gold, silver and bronze
45:32
The way that some people think if you don't come first, it doesn't matter at all. And some people think, well, hang on a minute
45:37
getting to the semi-finals of the World Cup is, for a relatively small country like ours
45:41
a magnificent achievement. Well, we came, even if we lose on Saturday
45:46
we've come above 60 countries. Yeah? Yes. we've won the World Cup the same
45:52
times as Uruguay have we? yeah, they've won the first one and Argentina
46:00
could win their fourth on Sunday but you know, good luck to them
46:04
I like that and I love what you've said about that and it tallies with my feelings as well
46:08
with my thoughts about how I guess probably we need to detach
46:12
ourselves from some of the worst excesses of social media and indeed
46:16
some of the worst excesses of traditional media which are better than they used to be when it comes to the way that the England football team is treated
46:24
but which did used to celebrate all the wrong things, and used to undermine our own team and our own players
46:30
And the more psychological strength they have, the more immune they are to being undermined
46:35
Warren has undermined me very effectively, quoting me back at myself. Other countries, I said earlier in the programme, don't seem to be as anti-England these days
46:44
and he has posted on Blue Sky a picture accompanying that quote
46:48
of Greyfriars Bobby, a statue of a dog up in Edinburgh. A beautiful story, Greyfriars Bobby
46:56
of a dog that spent eight or nine years at its dead master's grave
47:00
wearing an Argentina shirt. So obviously I was perhaps being a little bit previous or a little bit..
47:06
I think you might have won two World Cups actually, not to rain on anybody's parade
47:11
But obviously there are still people in Scotland who would have been jumping up and down with joy
47:15
when that first and indeed second Argentina goal went in last night
47:20
But what's the biggest takeaway? That something nice has changed. The Lioness is a part of it, I suspect
47:26
A kind of leavening of the machismo. I loved it when Andy Murray used to do that thing
47:34
where people would talk about the first player ever to do X
47:40
and Andy Murray would just very calmly and very politely go, No, the first male player to do X
47:46
And I'm afraid I fell into the trap yesterday of talking about never winning anything
47:50
England never winning anything, without qualifying that I was talking about the England men's team never winning anything
47:56
So there is a change in society. And of course, change comes from the bottom
48:02
Change comes from the young. And then it filters through society as the young grow older
48:06
So those of us who are older have to really pay attention to spot the changes that are happening
48:11
the earlier caller talking about gen z and millennials and and you know those of us who
48:16
sometimes feel a little bit uh excluded from these conversations or confused sometimes by the
48:22
terminology and the nomenclature that the kids are different and the kids are largely all right
48:28
in some ways but not we know in others and one of the key ways of course in which they are not
48:34
all right at the moment is when it comes to their relationship with the workplace two reports out
48:39
today, including one that shows young people on benefits are less likely
48:43
to get jobs than over 55s. You've got two choices, really, here
48:48
You've got a choice between the stick and the carrot. You can either shout at them and abuse
48:51
them and malign them and demonise them, or you can ask in good faith
48:55
what would really help. So let's do the second after this. James O'Brien on LBC
49:02
Three minutes after 11, and you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. It's funny, you know, I talked
49:08
about the ysis of last night's game being more or less unanimous in the error made
49:12
by, quotes, parking or trying to, quotes, park the bus end quotes. There's a brilliant challenge
49:18
to that in the New York Times of all places. A really technical and
49:21
carefully constructed piece in the New York Times by a journalist called Michael Cox
49:26
under the headline, England's problem at major tournaments, they're still just too English
49:30
Makes the point very powerfully that the subs, of course, that initially looked disastrous
49:37
putting on defensive substitutes, and then being left in that pattern, left in that space when you needed to score a goal
49:46
or you needed to start pushing forward. The retreat had happened before the substitutions were made
49:53
because Argentina were pushing forward and England were exhausted. So, in fact, the three defensive substitutions
49:59
did make perfect sense. It's worth a read that, although I think you probably need
50:03
a New York Times subscription to read it. That's it. We're not going to talk about football now for at least another two years
50:10
Was that an enormous sigh of relief I heard you issue, or was it a sort of plaintive whine
50:15
I wish we were still talking about it on Monday, James, when we're celebrating winning the World Cup, but we won't be
50:22
Let's do an old-fashioned, or not an old-fashioned, let's do a slightly more familiar phone-in together now
50:29
Do you notice, do you get as excited as I do when we stumble across Rosetta Stones
50:34
little skeleton keys that help you understand things that you'd previously wrestled with
50:39
i think the more i read into it and i've been reading into it quite a lot so much so actually
50:44
that i've written about it this week in the in the i newspaper but i i think the wrestling
50:49
really does provide a crucial insight into donald trump the whole phenomenon of kayfabe as it's
50:58
called uh munya chihuahua of course did that big documentary for channel four last month wrestling
51:04
trump came into the studio to talk us through it johnny vaughn buttonholed me in the in the lift at
51:09
global towers over a year ago to tell me that if you really want to understand trump you've got to
51:14
get your head around the wrestling you've got to understand that the mythology the uh the vocabulary
51:20
of of professional wrestling kayfabe being the sort of spell that is cast whereby you can
51:28
simultaneously know that it's all scripted and pre-arranged but also believe that it's real
51:33
um it has two meanings in fact kayfabe it also means um the the staying in character
51:41
and if you want to understand why farage currently can't seem to survive or or just
51:48
wade untouched through scandals in the way that trump does it's because farage has broken kayfabe
51:55
Farage has broken his character. Farage currently looks pathetic and weak. Even yesterday's news that a man has been arrested for making threats online, sadly
52:05
because it's good that the man has been arrested and you wouldn't wish that kind of abuse on anybody
52:10
except, of course, that members of his party engage in that sort of abuse
52:14
Zia Yusuf had his own quotes read back to him yesterday while he pretended to be passionately opposed to online abuse
52:20
Lucy Connolly a woman who has been to jail for inciting violence inciting hatred against not just asylum seekers but also remember politicians she gets a hero welcome on stage at Farage So even as he sort of pleads for your sympathy and concern by saying
52:37
oh, they've all got it in for me, they've all got it in for me, he completely renders himself ridiculous by dint of the fact that they treated a woman
52:44
who has literally gone to jail for her disgusting online incitement as a folk hero
52:51
when Alison Pearson and Liam Halligan invited her onto the stage at the Reform UK concert
52:57
Well, it felt like a concert because they stuck on a theme tune and treated her like an X Factor winner
53:01
So he's broken kayfabe, you see. And I don't know whether he'll ever be able to get properly back into character
53:09
The Guardian reports today that three members of Reform, three insiders at Reform have told them
53:15
that he was whining about needing £5 million to go back into politics
53:20
He would need £5 million to go back into politics because the billionaire Paul Marshall, who owns GB News
53:27
was giving him about £1 million a year to present programmes on GBBs
53:32
Spoiler alert, that's a little bit above the going rate. As a presenter of a radio programme that has more viewers
53:37
more listeners than that entire television station has viewers, either Farage has got an incredible agent
53:43
or Paul Marshall was giving him that sort of wage, that sort of salary for reasons not entirely linked
53:51
to the commercial success of his television programme. But he was arguing before he went back into campaigning
53:59
for a seat in Parliament that he'd have to find £5 million somewhere else
54:03
If he was going to go back into politics, someone else was going to have to pick up that £5 million bill
54:09
And by complete coincidence, Christopher Harbourn popped up shortly afterwards and handed him a secret £5 million gift
54:16
That is reported in The Guardian today. Farage's response was that he doesn't think it's worth responding
54:21
because The Guardian wouldn't properly print or hand... I can't remember. But it was pathetic. It was kayfabe
54:27
It wasn't what Trump would do, which is to stay in character. Even as the rest of us find the character ridiculous, he stays in it
54:35
So it's eight minutes after 11. That's got absolutely nothing to do with what I want to talk about next
54:39
except insofar as I love the little Rosetta Stones. I love the skeleton keys that let us unlock complicated topics
54:49
and actually make them a little bit easier to understand. Kayfabe and wrestling, Donald Trump
54:55
The difference between can't and won't is for me a Rosetta Stone that unlocks so much
55:03
when it comes to the very modern phenomenon of mental health issues preventing people from working
55:12
It's the same with school. the difference between a child who won't go to school
55:16
which is the image we all have in our head, depending on your age
55:20
you know, the child who is playing truant to go and scrump apples, or if you're a little bit older, the younger
55:27
the child who is playing truant from school to go and hang out in the arcade in town
55:32
or the child who is playing truant from school to stay at home playing video games
55:38
We've all got that idea in our head of the child who is naughty
55:42
who is choosing not to go to school in order to do something else
55:46
I was chatting to Tom Kerridge earlier this week for a forthcoming episode of Full Disclosure
55:51
I love Tom Kerridge. Absolute legend. And he was talking about how he just didn't go to physics classes
55:57
He'd find himself just walking past the physics class. He didn't have a particular problem with his physics teacher
56:02
Far from it. Just knew he was never going to get his head around physics. So when it was physics, he'd just go home
56:07
He'd wave through the window to the teacher as he was making his way home
56:10
So that's a won't go to school, right? That's not a can't go to school
56:14
That's Tom choosing not to go to physics. But so much of the conversations that we have
56:20
should recognise the can't. The can't is a much bigger problem than the won't
56:24
It's not about scrumping apples or playing hooky or going down the arcade or sticking on the PlayStation
56:31
It's about I actually can't get out of the house. My anxiety is such that I can't get out of the house
56:37
I'm going to hurt myself rather than leave the house. I'm going to scream the house down rather than leave the house
56:45
And the adult equivalent of that, as these young people grow up
56:50
is the so-called needs. Again, it's so tempting to think they're all lazy layabouts
56:59
living their lives in ways that the rest of us can't quite understand. But it's not going to be that
57:05
It's not going to be that. There will be, and I don't know what the percentage will be
57:10
But there will be huge numbers of young people who want to go to work, who want a job
57:17
It's not that they won't work, it's that they currently can't. And this, to me, is the single biggest challenge facing domestic politicians at the moment
57:28
Our figures are huge. They're bigger than other countries. I don't know why. We've tried to work out why
57:35
Between you and me, we've largely failed. I've done a bunch of phone-ins on this
57:39
they always go off in slightly different directions. I've never absolutely nailed down
57:44
the question of why the United Kingdom has a particular problem with this
57:49
And I'm not going to give up. We will return to that question at some point in the future
57:53
But it's not what we're doing today. What we're looking at today is what help would look like
57:58
So in order to address this question, you need to understand the difference between can't and won't
58:04
So Pat McFadden, the Work and Pension Secretary, I think one of the better performers in Keir Starmer's cabinet, he is talking now almost all the time about the ineffectiveness of, quote, simply writing a cheque for health and disability benefit claimants and insisting that we need to provide more support to get people into and remaining in work
58:34
I don't believe, he told The Guardian, the government fulfills its responsibilities simply by writing a cheque
58:41
He's written a similar piece in The Times today as well. I think we owe people more than that
58:47
So, the people who can never work must be looked after. But the people who could work, and crucially in my view, until you persuade me otherwise
58:58
that people who want to work, if the system or if their situation was just tweaked a bit
59:06
McFadden puts it like this, but for those who could work or could change their situation
59:12
then we've got to help them do that. There are two questions here, really, aren't there
59:19
The first is, is he right? And I think he must be
59:24
Because when you read about a million young people not being in education, employment or training
59:30
you would have to be bonkers to think that they all want it that way
59:34
that they all like it that way. How many of them are on welfare, I do not know
59:40
But some of them will just be sort of living, I'm fascinated by the idea of just living
59:44
like they lived when they were at school without the inconvenience of having to go to school anymore
59:49
But something is keeping them out of the workplace and it is either systemic
59:55
it's to do with the nature of the workplace, or it's internal, or emotional
1:00:00
In most cases, I think it's a combination of both. It's about something..
1:00:06
What's the secret sauce? What's the secret sauce? And it's not going to be a Rosetta Stone conversation
1:00:15
This is not going to be one single thing that the system or society or government could do
1:00:20
to help everybody currently, not in work, into work. but if we assemble enough answers to that question
1:00:30
we'll get a heck of a lot closer to understanding what needs to be done than we are currently
1:00:35
because the other story in the news that I mentioned to you a moment ago
1:00:39
involves over 55s and something of a counterintuitive finding that over 55s are more likely to find work now
1:00:49
than the NEETs so if you're out of work and you're over 55
1:00:54
I suppose this constitutes good news for the generation that I will be in in a couple of years' time
1:00:59
You know, the tendency of thinking that I'm doomed now, I'm on the scrap heap
1:01:04
all of the opportunities, all of the breaks are going to go to the young people. Why would anybody want to hire me when they can hire, you know, a vibrant young 20-something
1:01:12
Well, the evidence suggests that that is not what is happening. Over 55s are currently less likely to stay out of work when they find themselves out of work
1:01:21
than the 16 to 25-year-olds are. And that's, I mean, I suppose in a sense it's good news for the older people
1:01:29
but it's terrible, terrible news for the younger people. Brannan's been in touch to say
1:01:34
it's all about migrants, stop avoiding it, which is categorically not true
1:01:38
These are not people who are failing to get jobs, Brannan, because the jobs are occupied by migrants
1:01:44
They are people who are not in education, employment or training. So they're not doing anything
1:01:50
If you think that all of the further education places in this country are full of recent arrivals from Afghanistan
1:01:56
then, Brannon, would you like to buy a bridge, you insufferable fool
1:02:00
So, of course, if you don't like thinking, and you don't really like yourself very much
1:02:07
and therefore you don't like people in general, the temptation of thinking this is all about immigration
1:02:12
it's all the fault of foreigners, down with foreigners, let's deport them all, is incredibly tempting
1:02:17
And you're enjoying at the moment, Brannon, something of a golden era. So many politicians are pandering
1:02:22
to the ignorant prejudices of people like you that you probably, if you squinted a bit
1:02:27
and had the right wind behind you, you could kid yourself that you had a functioning brain
1:02:31
But you don't. They're pandering to your ignorance. They're not pandering to your insights, your intelligence
1:02:36
The answer to the question of why a million young people in this country are not in education, employment or training
1:02:41
is not because of high levels of immigration. High levels of immigration actually create customers
1:02:49
They create jobs. Everybody who comes here to make a living becomes a customer, becomes a client, becomes someone who uses services
1:02:57
And therefore, the people who provide services, the people who sell goods, the people who run businesses, have more custom, have more clients
1:03:04
And the overall economic growth that goes hand in hand with high levels of immigration benefits everybody
1:03:10
But I appreciate that some of those words were probably a bit long for you. so what actually would help
1:03:18
because I don't know and I feel that I should I really feel that I should know
1:03:26
what would help first thing you need to grasp is the difference between can't and won't
1:03:35
so this is not can't Pat McFadden identifies the people who are obviously incapable of working
1:03:48
What about all the others? And I believe that your anxiety can be crippling
1:03:55
I believe that your mental health can be an obstacle to getting into the workplace
1:04:00
But I also believe that you can be helped. You can be helped
1:04:08
what would that help look like now you can either answer this from above as somebody who thinks they
1:04:18
understand the system and they understand what is missing and and what why that the workplace
1:04:25
the system that i could ease into easily 35 years ago is not a system into which 18 year olds today
1:04:36
they can ease their way in too easily. It's a bit like property prices
1:04:39
There's no point us talking about property from the point of view of people
1:04:44
who were able to get a 110% mortgage 26 years ago. It's a pointless conversation
1:04:50
They should be more like us. They should eat fewer avocados. My passage into the workplace was incredibly easy
1:04:57
I had to gird my loins a bit to go and hand in my CV on high streets
1:05:02
and got a job. First job I got after leaving school was in River Island in Worcester
1:05:06
but I was doing some waiting, a lovely restaurant in Kidderminster in the evenings
1:05:10
And then when I went to university, I found it easy to get into the workplace
1:05:16
It's pointless me saying that young people today should be more like me
1:05:21
Oh, you should be more like me. I found it really, that's just pointless
1:05:24
because you want to work and something's missing. What is missing? What does help look like for this army of young people
1:05:34
and by all means, console yourself with a thought of the ones that don't actually want to work
1:05:40
but I'm talking today about the ones that do. The ones that really want to work, and the jobs exist, okay
1:05:51
That's part of this, but something is missing. The cogs are not meshing
1:05:58
Society needs to recognise that society has changed, And young people, young people need help to get into the workplace, particularly if they've got mental health issues
1:06:13
What does that help look like? What should employers be doing? What should society be doing
1:06:19
What should we be doing to make this problem better? 0345 6060 973
1:06:30
James O'Brien on LBC. 22 minutes after 11. Labour must stop just writing a cheque for benefit claimants
1:06:38
says Pat McFadden, talking mostly, I think, about younger claimants. He visited a job centre in South London
1:06:46
and while there signalled that welfare reform could form the backbone of Labour's response
1:06:51
to the Milburn Review and the Tim's Review. Tim's looked at Pip
1:06:56
Milburn looked at younger people and a whole system reset. What is wrong with the system
1:07:04
0345 6060 973. How could the system better accommodate or better invite into the workplace
1:07:13
young people who currently feel unable to work as a consequence of
1:07:20
well, as a consequence of almost anything, but most obviously, mental health anxiety issues that people my age think that we understand and have dealt with and therefore all the youngsters must be malingering or swinging the lead but that is an unhelpful contribution to the conversation
1:07:37
What help is needed? If they're not just going to write a cheque, Pat McFadden, what should they do instead
1:07:44
And I want to hear your answers to that question, either as an overview, or as someone who's been through it
1:07:50
What's it like to watch a child? I hope I don't have to, but if I am going to, it's going to happen sooner rather than later
1:07:56
What's it like to watch a child slowly lose hope about getting into work
1:08:02
getting into a place, to watch your child, and to read all these newspapers and hear all this commentary about how lazy they all are
1:08:08
or how feckless they all are, or how dishonest they all are with their men
1:08:13
and to know that it's not true, but the system is somehow not engineered correctly
1:08:20
How does it need to be engineered differently? What does the system need to do differently
1:08:27
0345 6060 973. Theo's in Islington. Theo, what would you like to say
1:08:33
Hello, James. I am in my mid-30s at the moment. I've had a career before
1:08:39
Right now I'm a freelance journalist applying for roles and such. I'm applying for entry-level positions
1:08:45
The weekend before last, I wrote about 12,000 words for three separate applications
1:08:54
And that was for their entry-level jobs, and that was their sets of questions, their quiz
1:09:02
And that is the current grind. Now, if you have a mental health condition which seriously affects your ability to sit down and do that
1:09:12
such as depression or perhaps a neurodiverse condition. I mean, I have ADHD, but I'm lucky in that I'm diagnosed and it's medicated
1:09:21
So I can sit down, take my pill and do that. It's going to be really difficult
1:09:29
And especially entry-level jobs now have, you know, one, two, three, four, five stage interview processes
1:09:36
once you get past the initial AI screening. And that didn't used to be true
1:09:42
But they must be filling the roles, Theo. Just to be the devil's advocate for a moment
1:09:47
They must be filling the roles. It's not as if those jobs are staying empty
1:09:51
as a consequence of the screening process. They're just not ending up with people like you on the payroll
1:09:57
Potentially not, no. No, and that's a shame. I'm not being brutal or cruel
1:10:02
I'm just thinking that that is part of an answer to the question
1:10:07
But it's not... I mean, what could they do differently? answer have a different recruitment process
1:10:12
but there'd still be the same number of jobs available at the end of the different recruitment process
1:10:18
Yeah, there would. And as I touched on earlier, the issue with AI is really coming to the fore
1:10:29
Is it? I mean, people are using AI to write cover letters. They shouldn't. Right
1:10:33
But then organisations are using AI to review them. So the only moment you actually get..
1:10:40
if you're lucky, a human to review something is if you get to the next stage of the paper shift
1:10:47
or you get into an interview. So now you have a process of two AI language models
1:10:53
talking to each other. And if we're looking at the question of why some young people can't get a break
1:11:01
the reason why you mentioned neurodiversity and your own ADHD is because those people
1:11:07
are more likely to lose out in the system that you describe
1:11:12
and therefore more likely to become part of this army of a million needs
1:11:16
because there will be plenty of people who are neurotypical who can navigate the waters you describe more successfully
1:11:24
Is that right? Yeah, I think they're more likely to give up, especially if you're struggling with something like depression
1:11:32
which, you know, imagine going into a large piece of work, right? So I have a commission to do on Friday
1:11:39
It's going to be about 1,500 words. Now, prior to my diagnosis and getting medicated and stuff
1:11:47
sitting down and writing down that first sentence would be like climbing a very, very big hill
1:11:53
Sure. And you're exhausted by the time you've got 50 words in
1:11:58
Now, of course, it's much easier. But many people don't have access to that
1:12:03
I'm very lucky. I was able to go private. And get looked after
1:12:07
I mean, also, let me run something by you. And if I sound like a prat, then tell me, Theo
1:12:12
All right? Go ahead. Promise? Promise? Promise. You can always rely on honesty from me
1:12:16
Thank you. So, I think I may also have ADHD. And I certainly remember what you've just described when I was writing for a living
1:12:28
leaving it until the last imaginable minute, until it felt as if I was about..
1:12:32
But somehow the hot breath of a news editor on the back of my neck
1:12:37
got me over the line with neither diagnosis nor medication. I'm not making light of the situation
1:12:43
I'm just wondering whether... And I think I was fairly traumatised by those experiences for the record
1:12:48
I think, you know, they turned me into somebody I didn't really want to be in terms of echoing the behaviour that was inflicted on me
1:12:56
and thinking, therefore, when I ended up in a position of responsibility, that was how I would treat the people who were below me
1:13:02
But that's gone. That brutalisation in the workplace has gone, and good riddance
1:13:09
but that would also have worked as a sort of engine of motivation
1:13:17
for people like you and me, perhaps. I don't know. Do you understand what I'm saying
1:13:21
or am I being a pratt? Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying
1:13:25
Am I being a pratt? I don't think so. Thank you. You don't sound certain, though
1:13:30
No, no, because I'm recalling similar thoughts with my sergeants in the police
1:13:37
Right. Yeah, okay, there you go. I got told by a skipper one time, Theo, you have two modes
1:13:42
and it's really irritating me. It's Theo, calm down, or Theo, wake up. Yeah, yeah, crikey. Yeah, that sounds familiar
1:13:48
And the workplace, you would have to mask to survive in that workplace
1:13:53
and that workplace doesn't exist anymore, and it hasn't yet worked out how to positively accommodate people like you
1:14:01
as opposed to negatively accommodate. Is that right? I mean, I don't want to sound like I am whining
1:14:14
No, you absolutely don't. But it's about the way in which the system accommodates people
1:14:22
and it used to force a square peg through a round hole
1:14:27
Yeah. And it doesn't anymore, which means that the square peg can't get through the round hole
1:14:32
It used to use a mallet. What do we need now? We need a different shaped hole. Or we need support for people with these conditions
1:14:41
I mean, the backlog on ADHD diagnoses through the NHS is years long
1:14:47
And with the diagnosis and with treatment and with medication, they would be able to navigate the channels
1:14:53
that they are currently intimidated by and or unable to navigate So yes don write a cheque in terms of welfare pat mcfadden but spend a ton of money on facilitating accelerating and securing diagnoses and treatment
1:15:07
for neurodiversity on a sort of scale that would be close to unprecedented it wouldn't be cheap
1:15:13
but it would be speculating to accumulate writing a check and forgetting about somebody
1:15:18
versus writing a check to help somebody. I hate this phrase, but it works
1:15:24
To help somebody help themselves. Thank you, Theo. 11.31 is the time
1:15:28
You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC, and Dominic Ennis is here now with your headlines
1:15:32
James O'Brien on LBC. I wasn't expecting this, but I think there's a link between this conversation
1:15:38
and the one that we had in the last hour. If you turned off the last hour
1:15:41
because you thought it was going to be all about the offside trap and 4-4-2 formations
1:15:46
it was more about for me at least why everything is so different
1:15:53
why everything is so different with regards to our relationship between the England football team
1:16:00
and the rest of the population and we took a couple of wonderful calls about the psychological changes
1:16:05
the way that the players are now looked after in ways that they were never looked after before
1:16:09
so I can sit here somewhat arrogantly and judgmentally reminding you of the appalling behaviour
1:16:15
of England football stars of old, the sexual shenanigans, the infidelities and all the rest of it
1:16:22
the debauchery, actually that's the right word to use. But if those men
1:16:28
or if some of those men had been better looked after when they were young
1:16:32
when they were rising up through the ranks, when they got into their club or their national side
1:16:36
if they had received psychological support, if they had been offered space
1:16:42
to talk about their feelings, if they had been properly looked after, they probably wouldn't have got into the bother
1:16:47
that they would have got into. That they did get into, and as a consequence
1:16:50
of being better looked after and being more rounded, healthier men they keep doing much better in tournaments
1:16:57
than their predecessors did. Maybe that is part of the answer to the question about what's going on
1:17:03
with our young people today. They need looking after better. We're not looking after them very well
1:17:10
And of course the world is a pretty scary place at the moment. scarier than it was when we were young in many ways
1:17:15
for a whole heap of reasons, some of which Theo touched on. But what does that help look like
1:17:20
What would be the equivalent of Gareth Southgate for an entire generation of neat young people
1:17:28
not in education, employment or training? Jackie's in Goul in Yorkshire. Jackie, what would you like to say
1:17:34
Hi. Hello. I'd just like to say, I'm a social worker of old
1:17:39
now retired due to ill health, but I've worked with young people since the early 90s
1:17:46
and I just think it's about looking at the person holistically. It's about having the professionals there
1:17:54
in terms of the diagnoses or support around drugs or alcohol or whatever it is that's healing them
1:18:03
But it's also about that soft approach, about the community coming together
1:18:08
Is it worse than it used to be, Jackie? No. Well, then, why is the problem so much bigger
1:18:16
I think where we're feeling, young people is in the education system
1:18:21
I've never been a fan of the Academy Trust. Okay. But that's a proportion of pupils
1:18:28
It's not all of them, is it? Yeah, I know, but I live in the second most deprived area of East Riding
1:18:34
Okay. And my local school... Well, good luck winning the title next year
1:18:38
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I see young people being excluded from school for the most simplest of reasons. Yeah
1:18:51
Because it interferes with their academic statistics. And then the left, and I remember a mum saying to me, her child wouldn't go to school
1:19:03
She was 14 years old. She went to magistrate's court with the mum for a fine
1:19:08
and the magistrate said to her, if you homeschool your child, then I'll forego the fine
1:19:17
Now, of course she did, because she was a single parent with five children
1:19:22
She foregoed the fine, and that child never went back to school
1:19:26
and never had any homeschooling or anything. No, of course not. It's just taken out of sight, out of mind, isn't it
1:19:31
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I've set up a Young People's Day Centre
1:19:37
I've helped set up a boxing club for young people. I've helped set up Goal Youth Action with Phil Jackson, who works for East Riding
1:19:46
We have done all sorts in this town to really support holistically
1:19:51
And does it work? Is it working? Yes, it does. Yes, it does
1:19:55
The success that we are having is absolutely astounding. And people with severe autism are people that have just not been parented or not been loved
1:20:05
you know respect and love go a long way and if you get a young person and you put your heart into
1:20:13
that young person and tell them that they're a good person that they have got strength yes they've
1:20:18
got weaknesses but we can work on that but really focusing on a young person's strengths and whether
1:20:24
that be boxing or being on the um you know young people's council you know anything anything at all
1:20:32
really harnessing and focusing on those strengths. It's self-care. It's valuing yourself
1:20:39
And then it becomes so much easier then for other people to value you
1:20:42
If you believe that you've got something of value, then you're going to find it much easier to persuade other people
1:20:48
that they should value you too. Absolutely. Absolutely. Do you know, I'm both uplifted and depressed by what you're saying
1:20:55
because, of course, it's beautifully expressed, and it's wonderful to hear you putting your sort of money
1:21:00
where your mouth is, as it were. but at the same time, it's woefully absent, isn't it, from much of the country
1:21:08
And things have been shut down. Is it Osborne's razor? I mean, the ghosts of George Osborne and Michael Gove
1:21:15
Absolutely. So they've just cut everything. I was in the Department of Health when they signed that coalition agreement
1:21:23
And basically, the removal vans were outside to take away all of the beautiful artwork and everything
1:21:30
that had been designed by children. And, you know, that said it all to me
1:21:36
That absolutely said it all. It's got no immediate financial value, so why on earth should..
1:21:40
I mean, these are, of course, the people who send their children to schools like the one I went to and the one I sent my children to
1:21:45
which have incredible emphasis placed on the arts and on culture. But if it's state schools, why do the plebs need that sort of thing
1:21:54
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. How depressing. Absolutely. And all of the youth services from 2010 were just axed
1:22:02
All of it was just axed. And now we've got the new youth strategy
1:22:07
I'm hoping that this Labour government will harness that strategy and really focus in on the young people
1:22:14
Well, I think we should all hope that, shouldn't we? But, I mean, it is obvious. I'm haunted
1:22:19
Thank you, Jackie. If only there were more Jackies in this world, as your answer to the question of what do we need
1:22:24
More Jackies but I don know if you were listening yesterday when James rang in and just dropped one of those little bombshells that pop up on the programme occasionally and then sort of reverberate for months afterwards
1:22:37
And talking about how the reason why you think it's a root cause is because that's when you
1:22:42
stopped looking. And James C. Patterson, to give him his full title, has written a book about this
1:22:47
I can't even remember. What was the subject we were discussing yesterday when he rang in
1:22:51
Anyway, it'll come to me in a moment. but um that i'm now nervous of that i'm now nervous of saying things like osborne's razor i mean
1:23:01
obviously the massive cuts to public spending have hit the current generation the generation
1:23:07
that is currently not in education employment or training harder than it's hit anybody else
1:23:11
because they got none of the care that jackie describes they got none of the constant considerations
1:23:17
that theo described and then you couple it with michael gove's behavior as education secretary
1:23:22
and you see that things that are not immediately commoditizable or things that don't have immediate financial value
1:23:29
have been excised. Or you can simply talk about how grades are more important than anything else
1:23:36
I've always thought that from a teacher's point of view, getting a D up to a C is a bigger achievement than keeping an A as an A
1:23:44
But I don't know that the current system reflects or recognizes that. What would improvement look like
1:23:50
Tobin's in Eggham. Tobin, what would you like to say? Is it Tobin with an N
1:23:56
It is Tobin with an N, yeah. And a Y? With an I
1:23:59
Oh, with an I, okay. You're the second Tobin I've met, but the other one has got a Y, not an I
1:24:05
Sorry, carry on, I just got a bit distracted. No, absolutely. I think it does link into that interesting commodification
1:24:10
but I think it's kind of that culture of commodification in that you see so many graduates coming out of
1:24:17
you know, they've done their GCSEs, they've been higher achieving through GCSEs, A-levels
1:24:20
they've got their degree, and then they go into the workplace, they'll do an internship or they'll apply to a graduate role
1:24:27
and they'll be told at the end of the internship or at the end of the application process
1:24:32
We've actually hired three new people who are way more experienced than you
1:24:36
They've been working for five years, they've got the experience built up and so we've given them the role
1:24:41
I think obviously, you know, these people are obviously, they probably won't want to be entering entry-level roles
1:24:47
if they have that experience. But they're pushing you out because they've, I mean, this might be part of the other story today
1:24:54
about the human and financial cost of young people getting stuck on benefits
1:24:59
because older people, over 55s, are more likely to get the jobs that they're going for
1:25:04
Well, exactly. This is the problem. I think it comes down to a quota thing. I think it should, obviously the numbers would have to be reflective of society
1:25:12
I don't have those numbers in front of me to run now, but for the sake of the discussion, say a third of new hires every three years
1:25:18
a third of your hires have to be graduates or they have to be fresh out of education
1:25:22
because otherwise you'll reach a point where you have all these experienced people in and then
1:25:26
they'll all get to an age where they want to retire or move on and you've got no one in your company, no one in your
1:25:30
workforce with any experience to carry it on. These can't force businesses to
1:25:34
be exposed to the value of new workers. What do we say to the over 55s
1:25:39
listening to this who are going, yeah, all right, mate, what about me
1:25:43
I mean, that's a really good point. Obviously they'd still get the other the other two-thirds or whatever the number would be
1:25:49
But I think in terms of, you know, it's a failed system and it will take time
1:25:53
And it's a generational problem that we need to overcome by introducing these systems. And obviously there will always be victims
1:25:58
It's just whether we want the victims to continue to be victims long-term or whether we want to kind of reduce the victimhood over time
1:26:03
Or you're spreading out a little so that, you know, your cohort, your generation, is not hit hardest and longest
1:26:12
Other generations take up some of the brunt of these social problems as well
1:26:16
and this is not about being signed off sick or anything like that
1:26:20
this is just about trying and finding that the system is sort of engineered against you
1:26:26
yeah, pretty much not so much against you just in favour of others more
1:26:31
that's nicely put yeah, that's an important point and things can be better
1:26:35
thank you Tobin I sense that you speak from personal experience I hope things either have got better for you
1:26:42
or get better for you soon 11.45 is the time you're listening to James O'Brien
1:26:46
on LBC. The proportion of young people being signed off sick is a significant concern
1:26:52
Pat McFadden has also pointed out today. And he describes also benefit stickiness
1:26:57
for the young that obviously matters even more because they should have their whole working lives ahead of them
1:27:03
So he's sort of echoing what Tobin has touched upon by pointing out that the amount of time people spend
1:27:09
on these benefits once they're on them becomes almost worse if you're young than if you're older
1:27:15
because it is limiting your chances of getting off them. Every month you spend on it probably chips away
1:27:21
at the likelihood of getting off it. So what does support and help look like? We're getting some meaningful answers, some obvious, some not
1:27:27
But I don't think, the reason I mentioned James earlier, the caller on Tuesday when we were talking about heat waves
1:27:32
and climate change, who just dropped that flipping root cause observation into the conversation
1:27:37
is it's not just going to be George Osborne's fault. It is not just Osborne's razor
1:27:42
but my god those men have so much to answer for did you see gove yesterday responding to that 10
1:27:48
billion pound wastage 10 billion pounds of wastage i think someone even asked if he was going to
1:27:54
apologize no we're just we just some mistakes were made baroness hallett has been clear that
1:27:59
there was no cronyism or or corruption involved oh that's all right then just incompetence is it
1:28:04
okay that's fine you carry on mate don't apologize just complete flipping incompetence
1:28:09
setting up VIP lanes for your mates who just happen to have enough capital
1:28:14
to make a few calls and say you haven't got any rubber gloves knocking around have you
1:28:17
yeah I'll pay over the odds for those if you can get them to me by Tuesday because I know a bloke in government
1:28:22
that's going to pay ten times what I pay for them no questions asked
1:28:26
more or less but no cronyism or corruption involved so nothing to apologise for
1:28:31
just epic, epic incompetence Boris Johnson and Michael Gove utterly, utterly untouched
1:28:36
by all of the problems that they visited upon this nation, up to and including the biggest one of all, Brexit
1:28:45
James O'Brien on LBC. 10 to 12 is the point, and I note that quite a few of you
1:28:51
share my fury, it's probably not quite the right word, too tired to be furious about the stuff that went on
1:28:58
during the 14 years of Tory government, but you certainly share my unhappiness
1:29:03
about the way that Michael Gove has responded to that £10 billion of taxpayers' money being wasted
1:29:09
on either unwanted or unusable PPE. And it's worth reflecting for a moment on what his response tells us
1:29:18
Twofold, actually. Number one, celebrating the fact that the report didn't find any evidence of cronyism or corruption
1:29:24
Imagine being so... What would the word be? Imagine being so craven and so pathetic
1:29:30
that it's a win when they just find that you're useless. Hey, great news lads, we're incompetent. We're not corrupt
1:29:38
Baroness Hallett has come out for the boys. Trebles all round. Michael Gove's in the hot seat. Michael Gove's a winner
1:29:46
He's just bloody useless. He's not corrupt or indulging in cronyism. And then when Krishnan Gurumurthy, one of the good guys, pointed out on Channel 4 News
1:29:55
that he was wrong when he claimed that PPE sort of... through the VIP lane was not more expensive than PPE which was sourced elsewhere because Baronet Hallett literally wrote
1:30:06
the evidence suggests that high priority lane contracts were more expensive. Gove argues that the report was wrong
1:30:13
So when it finds out that there was no corruption or cronyism, Baroness Hallett is a flipping genius and she's come through for the lads
1:30:19
But when she points out that the contracts that you got through this ludicrous lane they set up for their mates
1:30:24
but it definitely wasn't cronyism, you just needed to know someone to get on it
1:30:28
when that was pointed out to be a source of PPE more expensive than the other sources
1:30:35
Oh, on that occasion, she was wrong. But it doesn't matter, does it
1:30:39
It doesn't matter, because who cares? Boris Johnson's got a column in the Daily Mail. Michael Goze, the editor of The Spectator
1:30:45
These people don't face any consequences whatsoever for what they did. So much so that they now celebrate being found to be useless
1:30:53
It's all right. We're just useless. 10 billion quids worth of taxpayers' money
1:30:57
that we spaffed up a wall. Don't worry, though, because they don't think we're corrupt
1:31:01
They haven't found that we were engaging in cronyism. They just think we're absolutely useless
1:31:07
Incompetent to the tune of 10 billion pounds. No wonder some young people don't see the point
1:31:14
of getting out of bed in this world. Beth's in... Well, there's only one kid in Minster, Beth, and you're in it
1:31:20
What would you like to say? Yes, I am in it. Hi, James
1:31:24
I wanted to talk a little bit about complexity and just how different the world is and society is now
1:31:33
than it was, say, 20, 30 years ago. I'm 26, and I've grown up in a sort of world
1:31:40
where technology and, like, certain mobile phones, I started getting one when I was, like, 9 or 10
1:31:46
but it was very sort of, like, mitigated, my usage of it
1:31:50
And I just think that we expect young people, sort of 16, 18, 20, to be able to adjust
1:32:03
And especially after university as well, I find like university could be quite like a stunting place
1:32:12
I personally I found going to university difficult going from like sort of living at home
1:32:20
to being by myself and having to do all those things sort of myself and I think
1:32:24
just those types of things don't get don't get mentioned I think you're right
1:32:29
in psychology so that gives you an insight into how people have changed
1:32:34
as well yeah I think with psychology as well we've So there's sort of more of understanding that sort of neurologically we're developing until we're 23, 24, 25
1:32:49
And a lot of that is to do with risk inhibitions, emotional regulation
1:32:55
And I know that, obviously I know that young people were working, you know, they always have worked. Sure
1:33:02
And it's only becoming a problem now. but I think we haven't grown with the knowledge
1:33:09
that we've been getting from sort of... We've been reprogrammed as well
1:33:15
I mean, this is going to sound a bit silly. Do you promise not to laugh at me? I promise
1:33:20
Okay, have you seen Toy Story 5? No, I haven't. No, I'm sorry
1:33:25
You haven't seen Toy Story 5? I promise, but no. You did promise, but you laughed, actually, so thanks
1:33:31
So, Toy Story 5, no spoilers, but it actually addresses from quite a young age
1:33:37
what happens to children whose lives are dominated by devices. And I've only realized this when I was listening to you, actually
1:33:46
I saw it yesterday. But it posits the idea that these are different
1:33:52
These children whose lives have been dominated by devices are and will grow up to be measurably and profoundly different human beings
1:34:01
from the ones who grew up with lives that were not dominated by devices
1:34:05
Obviously, it being a children's film, it's play and imagination that are offered up as the alternatives
1:34:11
And I don't want to give away any spoilers, but the denouement is a form of resolution between the two poles
1:34:17
But we massively underestimate how much rewiring of brains has gone on
1:34:23
as a consequence of device devotion. And therefore, when it's time to get into the workplace
1:34:28
the workplace is still tuned for brains like mine rather than brains that have been dominated by devices
1:34:35
from an incredibly early age, I think. Yeah, it's all very fast-paced in my brain, at least
1:34:43
I mean, I do have sort of neurodivergency, but it's all very fast-paced
1:34:47
I see it in my younger siblings and stuff. They're just, like, on all the time
1:34:54
They just know what's going on all the time. You've got to know what's going on in Iraq
1:34:58
You've got to know what's going on, you know, just everywhere. With Trump, with Nigel, what's going on everywhere
1:35:06
Never bored. They're never bored or never... I mean, I... Never went engaged
1:35:13
I'm just thinking of just up the road in Worcester when I was working in River Island
1:35:17
and quite often I'd stand there for four hours doing nothing if no customer came in
1:35:21
Your generation would find that almost impossible. Definitely, yeah, definitely. She's got to stand there doing nothing
1:35:30
I was going to say something that my partner said this the other day
1:35:34
and it really kind of put it into perspective for me. You spend, on average, a third of your time at work
1:35:40
a third of your time at sleep, and a third of your time doing other books. And all three of those things has been immeasurably changed by tech
1:35:50
And we're still having, conducting conversations as if, Why can't there be more like we were in the world without tech
1:35:56
in a world before smartphones? Yeah, I think Tom was talking yesterday about a child
1:36:01
I think he'd seen a television program where she was found to be spending 9 to 11 hours online
1:36:06
So if you're doing a third at work, a third asleep, and a third online, you've got no life
1:36:11
Literally no life. And of course, if you're doing half asleep and half online
1:36:17
then you're highly unlikely to find a way into work anytime soon. What a brilliant call, Beth, thank you
1:36:22
Did you miss my world exclusive earlier this week about Kidder Minster? Um, did I? I think I did
1:36:29
Oh, you're joking, aren't you? I unveiled the new Kidder Minster Harriers home strip live on the radio on Tuesday
1:36:36
Oh, wow. Thank you. Sorry, I missed that one. Yeah, you sound really regretful, Beth
1:36:41
You sound as if you really rue the day that you didn't tune into the programme
1:36:45
on which Kidder Minster Harriers' new home strip was exclusively, kind of exclusively unveiled
1:36:51
live on LBC. Thank you. It is coming up to 12 noon
1:36:57
It is Thursday. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC. The reason I mention that it's Thursday is because
1:37:05
it's Mystery Outday. It's the first in three weeks because I've been away. Your weekly opportunity
1:37:09
to achieve the sort of satisfaction not ordinarily available anywhere else on your radio
1:37:13
Did you see what I did there? You noticed. You see, you can change. Is it Malcolm Gladwell who, no
1:37:19
I didn't say dial. I used to say on your radio dial and then someone pointed out nobody has a radio dial anymore
1:37:24
Don at me to tell me that you do have a radio dial but the massive majority of people don even probably know what a radio dial is So you can change Malcolm Gladwell said you had to do something a thousand times before it became like second nature
1:37:36
I think we're in the process of, at least on that small example, proving him wrong
1:37:43
James O'Brien on LBC. Three minutes after 12 is the time you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:37:49
where we find ourselves happily embarking upon a voyage into the unknown
1:37:54
A quest, an attempt to solve riddles, unravel mysteries. I've said solve, I've said unravel
1:38:02
What's another verb? What's a synonym for solve and unravel? Which I could apply, for example, to enigmas
1:38:08
What do you do to enigmas? Unfurl? No, don't be ridiculous. You can't unfurl an enigma, you unfurl a rug
1:38:15
What would be another... Is there another synonym? I sometimes feel that I've hit these marks before
1:38:21
What do I normally say? You see, you can tell I've had two weeks off, which is why you'll be so excited to know that Mystery Hour is back with a vengeance
1:38:27
And not only that, it comes with a prize. My favourite contribution of the week, and the management's decision is final
1:38:34
and spoiler alert, I'm the management, will win a Mystery Hour game
1:38:39
You can find the full terms and conditions for that competition at lbc.co.nz
1:38:43
And you can find the Mystery Hour game, or indeed games plural, because there are now two games, both independently enjoyable
1:38:50
One is a travel edition in a tin, and one is a good old-fashioned board game
1:38:54
In a box. One in a tin, one in a box. Box or tin, tin or box. And you can find more about that at mysteryhour.co.uk
1:39:01
Decipher, resolve. My producer wrote unfurl on the screen. Unfurl an enigma
1:39:07
How can you unfurl an enigma? A fern unfurls. I may need some advice regarding ferns soon
1:39:13
I have invested in quite an expensive tree fern. I've got a real soft spot for ferns
1:39:19
I've invested in two. One was expensive and one wasn't. And I'm beginning to work out why
1:39:23
because one is looking quite raggedy and one is looking utterly luscious
1:39:27
Do you know they actually unfurl, Keith? Do you know this? So when you've got a tree fern
1:39:33
it's like a snail. Did you know this? The leaf is like a snail
1:39:37
and it unravels. It literally unfurls. No, I didn't know this either
1:39:42
So you've got a... Like a... What would the word be? It's not a snail
1:39:46
A spiral. Yeah, like a spiral. All contained and then it slowly unfurls like that
1:39:52
I'm doing a thing, just in case you're watching this later on YouTube, it goes, but until it's like a leaf, a farn leaf
1:39:59
Farns are great. Five minutes after 12. Have I done everything that I need to do
1:40:03
Do you decode an enigma? Yeah, but that would be an enigma enigma, like the enigma code
1:40:07
not an enigma in the original meaning of the word, which is just a synonym for mystery. So solve, if enigma is a synonym for mystery
1:40:14
what is a synonym for solve? I digress. Anyway. Phone number. There you go
1:40:20
That's the key to unlocking all of this. I never forget the phone number
1:40:25
I say the phone number in my sleep. You know, people stop me in the street and then nudge their children
1:40:30
They say to their children, LBC, and then their children go, 03456060973, because they've heard it so often
1:40:36
Of course, if you don't give out the phone number, you end up speaking to the same people every day. And nobody wants that
1:40:41
So here is the phone number. Oh, I just did it, didn't I? But I'll do it again. 03456060973 is the number you need
1:40:48
I'll do it in a grown-up. No, I won't. I may remind you shortly. So you ring in with a question
1:40:53
and then somebody else rings in with an answer. And it really is that simple
1:40:57
The who, the why, the what, the where, the whither, the whence, even the occasional wherefore
1:41:02
And somehow, if you're new to this, somehow magic happens between those two things
1:41:09
It should just be, and it wouldn't have survived all these years
1:41:13
it certainly wouldn't have spawned two games, count them, one in a box, one in a tin. it would never have happened if it was just oh here's a question why do we do that and then oh
1:41:24
here's an answer when we do that because that somehow something magical happens most weeks
1:41:31
in in the space in between the question and the answer i don't know why i don't know how and i
1:41:36
don't want to overyze it so let's crack on shall we yes let's darren's in scarborough darren
1:41:41
question or answer? James, welcome back. I hope you and yours had a lovely
1:41:45
holiday. Thank you. And talking of which, so I'm an old Royal Navy
1:41:51
Been there, seen it, done it, whatever. Yeah. But, that was on warships. The thing is
1:41:57
my question is, since leaving the forces, I've travelled on the planet by plane
1:42:03
Yeah. But every single time, either going, returning, or both, I get targeted
1:42:09
to get searched. So my question is, is there a hit list that people are just
1:42:15
on, or is it just purely random and I just get stopped
1:42:20
So you go through the through the archway, and it doesn't beep? It beeps because I've
1:42:27
got a new knee, but that's only over the last three years. But prior to that
1:42:31
every single time, beep or no beep, That is the question. Whether
1:42:37
it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrage? Sorry, I got a
1:42:41
I'm a bit distracted there. So the knee is now the reason, obviously
1:42:44
because if you beep, you get searched, right? Correct. But you're adamant that before you got your new knee
1:42:50
you would get searched every single time? Either going, coming back, or both
1:42:56
Did they ever find anything? Thankfully not. Oh, that's a relief. Oof
1:43:02
And so would they know? I mean, they don't know your details when you get to the security thing, do they
1:43:08
because you've already done the passport and boarding pass, so you could easily push in front of someone
1:43:13
Do you see what I mean? It's not a regimented queue when you get there
1:43:20
So, I mean, could I ask you to describe yourself physically, Darren, in the style perhaps of a dating app
1:43:25
I'm just your average Joe. I'm 6'2". No, no, don't say that. Do it in the style of a dating app
1:43:29
Make yourself sound as good as possible. I'm not that sexy, mate. That's not going to win, is it
1:43:34
6'2", what, 15 stone? Yeah, I'd say 17. 17 stone. Big guy, ex-forces, yeah
1:43:41
Tattoos, short hair. Just, you know, gone into my 60s, my 70s decade
1:43:47
But even prior to this, I mean, I'm going back 20, 25, 30 years
1:43:51
How bizarre. I mean, seriously, someone who's worked on that job, do you always, do you target the same people
1:43:59
I mean, I don't know how they would work out who to target if you're not..
1:44:02
Well, so if I book a ticket online... Yeah. Obviously, everything is computerized now
1:44:08
If I book a ticket, then my details go into a big cloud or whatever you want to call it
1:44:14
So if I get on a particular airline, because other airlines are obviously available
1:44:19
if I get on a particular airline, my name is there, my details, my passport number, and so forth
1:44:27
But the question I'm asking, is there a hit list? Is there like, oh, right, we'll stop him every single time
1:44:34
either going, coming back, or both. Every single plane flight I've gone
1:44:39
That's just... And you don't... Would you describe yourself as having a guilty face
1:44:44
Not particularly. Are you sure? I know. Because I've got an angry face
1:44:48
I can sit here in the best mood I've ever been in, and then I'll watch a clip later
1:44:53
and I look like I a bulldog chewing a wasp It just one of those sounds Yeah but you got a cracking voice you see and you can get yourself out of any kind of situation Yeah but if you watching it with the sound off I look like I raging When I not I really happy Look now I probably look angry but I not
1:45:06
I'm in a really good mood. I'm chatting with Darren. I don't go through. I have a couple of beers
1:45:10
Nothing sinister, nothing dramatic. I'm not getting on the plane half-cut or anything like that
1:45:15
I just... All right, you're on. ...with my missies. Is it completely random? Or is Darren somehow being targeted
1:45:21
Is there a reason? do you know of a reason why they would stop and search him all the time
1:45:27
Just to clarify, you're white. I'm just a normal white, six foot two kind of chap
1:45:33
I've got a 17 stern, a couple of tattoos on my arms. Because there was a form of profile, I mean, it probably still is
1:45:39
We have seen some forms of racial profiling at the security checks
1:45:43
and security desks at airports, so I just thought that was worth clarifying
1:45:47
But let's find that. It can't be the way he walks, Andy. Don't be ridiculous
1:45:51
11 minutes after 12 is the time. I like that question. Let's see if we can find an answer to it
1:45:56
Ian is in Montboucher in France. Ian, question or answer? Afternoon, James
1:46:01
Yeah, question for you. Carry on. Right, we've just had Wimbledon. Wimbledon, ever since I was a kid
1:46:08
has been famous for a certain brand of fruit squash. Yeah. Now, when I go and buy that squash in the supermarket
1:46:15
to my knowledge, it's the only one that contains barley. Makes it cloudy
1:46:20
You can say it. It's not the BBC. We don't need to worry about all that malarkey
1:46:25
Robinson's barley water is what we're talking about. It's the only one, as far as I'm aware, that's got barley in it and makes it cloudy
1:46:32
Why do they put barley in it? What difference does it make? I love this question
1:46:39
Oh, thank you. You're welcome. I actually love this question. This has occurred to me before in the past, and I've forgotten to ask it
1:46:46
And it is linked to... Is it still at Wimbledon? I didn't watch much this year because I was away
1:46:50
Is it still? I don't know if it is, you know. I don't know. I don't know. I remember it as a kid
1:46:56
Same. I think the money probably is huge now. And a simple squash probably doesn't..
1:47:03
It's more likely to be a big multinational brand that would be able to afford that kind of tie-in
1:47:07
But Robinson's Barley Water, what's the barley all about? You've never been having a refreshing draft, have you
1:47:14
And thought to yourself, you know what this really needs? This needs a spoonful of barley in it just to sort of really kick it in
1:47:20
And I never noticed a difference. If you have... Not that I've done back-to-back tests, but..
1:47:25
Why not? Occasionally, we've just had non-barley water there. And I can't say when you drink it, you think, oh..
1:47:32
Notice any difference? Have you checked the ingredients? Do they definitely have actual barley in it
1:47:41
I haven't checked the small print, but it says on the front of the bottle... Barley water
1:47:44
Barley water. I think it must have barley in it. What's it all about
1:47:48
The barley? Yeah, you're on. Okay, I like that question. Can you get it in France? I've no idea
1:47:53
You've done no research whatsoever, Ian. You haven't looked at the ingredients
1:47:58
You haven't done a blind taste test with a rival brand and you haven't even tried to buy it in the country you currently inhabit
1:48:04
Well, I'm in a really, really rural place. I don't inhabit this place all the time
1:48:09
I'm only here on holiday. So next time I'm in the supermarket, we'll have a look
1:48:12
Have a look at the ingredients. Apparently the sponsorship deal ended in 2022, according to an entirely unchecked text
1:48:17
that just came into the studio, so make of that what you will. 12.14 is the time
1:48:22
Graham's in Hull. Why was I thinking about Hull yesterday, Graham? No idea
1:48:27
Well, I'm actually in Beverly. Oh, are you? Beverly's a beautiful place, isn't it
1:48:31
Oh, I'll tell you why. I was thinking about Hull yesterday. In 1966, my mum told me
1:48:36
when I spoke to her on the phone, they watched the World Cup final
1:48:41
Dad was on the Hull Daily Mail and they were watching it in their place in Hull
1:48:45
So that's why I was thinking a hole yesterday. I appreciate that not everybody is going to be particularly interested
1:48:51
in that little nugget of information. Not least because... Well, and also, you're not actually in Hull
1:48:56
But anyway, on we go. Question or answer? Yeah, it's a question, but just a note regarding faces
1:49:01
My wife often says that my face has subtitles, which... Oh, because you're so expressive
1:49:07
Mm. Oh, I like that. But usually in a negative way. Oh. Oh, so you're..
1:49:11
So your mouth might be saying one thing, but your face is saying another
1:49:15
Indeed. Ah, yes, you want to watch that. Go on, Clay. Don't play poker with me. I'm easy to beat
1:49:19
You and me both. Carry on. The question is, we were driving along a little country lane the other day
1:49:24
and was behind one of those hay wagons that you see travelling on such lanes at this time of year
1:49:30
And the hay's all strapped down on top of it. And it's obviously blowing away in the wind as the truck's travelling along
1:49:36
I thought to myself, and I asked my wife, do you think there's a ratio involved of how much weight you carry and how far you can go
1:49:42
before there's no point in going there because you won't do enough left? Do you know, I think we've done this before
1:49:49
which you should take that as encouragement, that your brain works in a way that other brains work as well
1:49:55
You're seeing quite a lot of hay flying off the back of a truck
1:49:59
How far, in a way, you're asking, would a truck have to go in order to have no hay left on the back
1:50:09
Yeah, or for it to be pointless to make the journey, yeah. Or so little that it wasn't even worth delivering
1:50:15
Even before the straps become incapable of holding it down. Yes, yeah, yeah
1:50:20
So it would all go. How? How? I can't remember the question I was going to ask you
1:50:29
It was an absolute peach, though. How would we work that out
1:50:32
How would we know? Well, I guess there'd be a ratio of some sort
1:50:36
You'd have to measure it over a tonne per 20 miles. Yeah, exactly. and then times it by..
1:50:41
But then probably the rate at which it comes out is going to change according to, as you've said
1:50:45
how loosened the band... All right, you're on. I'm going to do something a little bit weird now, Graham
1:50:49
if that's all right with you, because I'm just looking after my producer, Eleanor
1:50:55
What were you at? What did you say you were driving down when you... A country lane
1:50:59
A what? A lane in the country. Can you have, I mean, given that we opened this conversation with the most boring piece of personal trivia that I've shared on the programme in a while
1:51:29
the location that my parents were in when they were watching the World Cup final in 1966
1:51:34
can you have a crack at why that was ready to play on on on our system
1:51:40
apart from you aforementioned um ancient practices of playing jingles like that
1:51:47
kind of i mean i'll tell you why it was after this but um it's quite uncanny don't you think
1:51:52
that we had that ready to go eleanor is in seventh heaven now james o'brien on lbc
1:51:57
it is 19 minutes after 12 do i have to say that was john denver with country rock that was john
1:52:03
And if you missed the top of the show, I was lamenting the fact that despite presenting the most listened to speech radio program in the history of commercial radio in this country, I've never done the two things that you most readily associate with commercial radio in this country
1:52:16
I've never played a record from beginning to end. And I've never done a football phone in
1:52:22
I think the second one's still true, actually. Have a listen to the first hour of the program and let me know whether you think it actually qualifies as a football phone I think Jonathan the Argentinian caller from Maidstone I think perhaps he qualified as a That was a bit of a football phone but that was only one caller
1:52:37
That's like playing a snatch of a song. It's not a whole record, it's not a whole hour, it's not a whole phone-in
1:52:41
So I've still never played a record or done a football phone-in. Speaking of records, who can remember..
1:52:48
Here's a real test for the hardcore stans. Can you remember... About 100 years ago, when I started work here
1:52:56
we chose the music for our own intros. Did you know that, Keith? Have you got the one, my first one
1:53:06
Because I... You see, Eleanor's getting cross-nared. Why would you want to listen to that, she says
1:53:11
Because I'm going to see them in concert tonight. So my first ever jingle
1:53:16
had featured a well-known artiste, and I was quite cool in those days
1:53:22
I was into him before it was cool to be into him. I did a bit..
1:53:27
I didn't play the whole of Kooks when Bowie died, Scott, I don't think. I may have played quite a bit of it
1:53:32
but I don't think I would have played the whole song because I'd have got into trouble. Have you got it
1:53:37
Did you find... Have you got the one that from... Is it in the old... So we can't get it down
1:53:41
Because I'm going to see them live tonight, and they were responsible for the first ever jingle that I had
1:53:45
when I started presenting the Sunday night at 10pm slot on LBC. You know what I'm going to say next, don't you
1:53:52
but I digress Chez is in Burnley, Chez, question or answer? Good afternoon James
1:53:58
it's a question please and thank you for your ongoing service for the people
1:54:02
of the UK. You're very kind, that's very kind of you, thank you Chez. Thank you, so my question is
1:54:06
yes. Okay why did salt and pepper become the standard condiments on dining tables
1:54:14
at home and in eateries all across the world? Push it real good
1:54:19
down, down, down. It's good link, that, yeah. It's not all around the world, is it
1:54:25
Oh, that's Lisa Stansfield, not salt and pepper. Well, I've been around a little bit, but
1:54:29
you know, I've been around Europe and I don't know. You do get, so you don't get pepper
1:54:35
You don't get pepper as often as you get. So salt is kind of obvious
1:54:40
isn't it? Because it makes things taste nicer. Right, right. Maybe there's preservative
1:54:45
effects as well, but... Yeah, but in Asian countries you're more likely to get a kind of a sauce aren't you a chili sauce or a kind of
1:54:54
doesn't doesn't sugar make things taste better as well not chips mate
1:55:01
no i'll fight you on that one seriously you don't sweet and say yeah you know back when i was allowed
1:55:06
to pick my own jingles we used to do occasional phone-ins on whether there was any food in the
1:55:10
world that couldn't be improved by the addition of cheese and sweet and sour was the winner it
1:55:14
It would be Chinese food usually, wasn't it? Oh, no, interesting. Yeah, everything else, everything else, a bit of cheese
1:55:20
is going to make things better. Paneer for your Indian cuisine. You've got paneer, I call it
1:55:25
Yeah, but I mean, you'll go off. Stick to the... Salt and pepper
1:55:30
Salt and pepper. Phone line's going funny. Why salt and pepper? And also when
1:55:34
Maybe it has something to do with the trading routes. So what, 18th century
1:55:40
Salt and pepper. Why is salt and pepper the condiments of choice in this country
1:55:44
Because in other countries, it might be a bit nicer to have a bit of chilli or something like that, spice things up a bit
1:55:50
Maybe because our food is historically so bland, that's part of the reason why we have such a strange relationship with food compared to other countries
1:55:56
I don't know, but I like the question. I've got two phone lines free if you're quick
1:56:03
0345 6060973. Questions in search of answers include, why does Darren always get stopped at the airport
1:56:08
And that, for the record, was true before he got a metal knee, so that's not the reason
1:56:12
what benefit does putting barley in fruit cordial convey why is there barley in barley water in
1:56:19
other words how long would a hay lorry have to drive in order for it to have no hay left on it
1:56:25
oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three and why are salt and pepper the condiments of
1:56:32
choice on most dining tables why not other spices or or what have you 23 minutes after 12 is the
1:56:40
time. Helen is in Manchester. Helen, question or answer? It's a question, please, James. Carry on
1:56:45
I would really like to know, why do cats at least appear to deal with heat in a heat wave
1:56:51
so much better than dogs? Because generally you see dogs punting, we get obviously all the health
1:56:59
warnings. I'm actually a dog walker. When you do your dog first aid, you get lots of training on
1:57:04
the signs of spotting a dog overheating. Yes. Yes. I also, I have cats, I look after other people's
1:57:10
cats and the cats it's just like they just get on with it i like this question i'm just thinking
1:57:16
about whether the answer was sort of is is going to present itself um because i understand that
1:57:23
dogs have a lot uh certain mechanisms to help them lose heat for example panting but you never
1:57:28
see a cat panting but i i mean there were some dogs on the beach in greece last week
1:57:33
some of the other guests had brought their dogs with them they were greek they sort of just come
1:57:37
from Athens to the seaside, and they'd brought their dogs with them. And we, as a British family
1:57:42
and some friends that we'd made, we were sort of a little bit, oh, gosh, look, there's dogs on the boat
1:57:46
Of course, someone else pointed out, well, you know, Greek people have, people in hot countries have pet dogs as well
1:57:52
So those dogs would come. And one of them, it was really cute, actually. It was just sort of hiding under the sunbed
1:57:57
It was just shade. It found shade. So could it just be that they're more used to it
1:58:02
Well, again, I'm thinking specifically about even just my pets in my house
1:58:06
versus cats. I look after here in Manchester. Dogs versus cats. So dogs in other countries generally will be acclimatised
1:58:13
That's what I mean. They're just used to it. They're just used to it. So why do cats cope better
1:58:17
Because they move less? The only thing I can think is it's possibly something to do with size
1:58:22
simply because the smaller the dog, generally, the better they are at coping with heat
1:58:27
That's true. But as I say, I've never seen a cat panting. But that's one of the ways that dogs lose heat
1:58:34
Cats quite like heat. They seek it out in our house in the way that the dog doesn't
1:58:39
Yeah, exactly. You know, you'll get them in the... I do know some dogs that want to go in sunbays
1:58:44
Yes. Sausage dogs all seem to want to go in sunbays. They're the mad dogs
1:58:48
Drag them back in the shade. They're the mad dogs that go out in the midday sun
1:58:53
But this is what I mean. Why, like, I don't know if it's just that the cats are styling it out the way the cats do
1:58:59
And that they're actually... You're on. Why do cats cope... It's what the impotted as the rest of us. I mean, you could..
1:59:02
I mean, it could be a silly question. why do cats cope better than dogs in the heat it could be like saying why do fish cope better than
1:59:08
elephants in the sea yeah you know it could just be that they're built that way and they kind of
1:59:13
have thermo i think it's called thermoregulation in a way that dogs just don't but i like the art
1:59:17
i mean cats are just cooler by nature of course um as the song says but let's find out why do cats
1:59:23
cope with this with the extreme heat so much better than dogs in this country because as i say
1:59:27
obviously you've got pet dogs in in very very hot countries who are much better at coping with the
1:59:32
than the ones what we've got here. 26 minutes after 12 is the time
1:59:38
Ian is in Ely. Ian, question or answer? I've got an answer for you, James
1:59:42
Carry on. Hello, by the way. James, in answer to the question about being searched at an airport
1:59:49
it was Darren, wasn't it? It was Darren. So the Department for Transport mandate
1:59:55
that a certain percentage of bodies and bags have to be searched completely
1:59:59
through the search cone, so the x-ray and the arch. So if he hasn't set the alarm off, it will be a random search
2:00:09
And he should take it as a compliment. Why would it always happen to him
2:00:14
Or on an inbound-outbound, he reckons every single time he'll be searched on one or the other
2:00:19
I will explain. Go on. So you spend your days doing the job, searching people
2:00:25
and you don't get a choice when you search the people who set the alarms off. No
2:00:29
So when you choose to search somebody randomly, you want somebody who looks clean, tidy, not too smelly, quite frankly
2:00:36
Are you serious? It's a bit of a joke, but it is also a kernel of truth in there, yeah
2:00:42
Well, I mean, how much of a joke is it? Because I would have thought that the smelly people were much more likely to be up to no good than the nice smelling people
2:00:49
No. I mean, most criminals hide in plain sight, don't they? I suppose they do
2:00:54
You look at your drug dealers and all the rest of it, they tend to be quite respectably looking. Yeah, you're right. I'm thinking more about the bus or the London Underground or something like that
2:01:02
And I'm not... Just because people are smelly doesn't mean that they're criminal or anything like that. So you would... Because you have to sort of put your hands on them
2:01:09
you're more likely to choose people who look quite sort of fragrant
2:01:15
Well, I mean, ask yourself the question, James. If you're going to be getting up close and personal with somebody
2:01:20
do you want them to be nice and clean or do you want them to... Well, now I'm offended because I don't think I've ever been searched
2:01:25
What's wrong with me? It's my angry face, isn't it? It's my angry face
2:01:29
Probably because you're a celebrity, James. It's because I'm a mess, mate. That's what it is
2:01:33
It's because I'm a right old man. Qualifications? I worked at Stansted Airport in security for a number of years
2:01:40
And do you have, I mean, apart from the fragrance or the sort of cleanliness issue
2:01:45
is there anything that sets your alarm bells off? Because, I mean, I don't want you to give away any trade secret
2:01:51
But you sort of said, oh, I'm going to check him out
2:01:54
Would you stop someone from looking shifty? Yeah, obviously. I also spent 10 years in the police
2:02:02
and you develop a copper's nose, and the same insecurity, yeah. You just would
2:02:09
They look a bit nervous. Do you think nervous flyers get searched more than everybody else
2:02:16
I don't know. I mean, it's an interesting thought, isn't it? Because it becomes then a self-fulfilling prophecy
2:02:22
If you're a very nervous flyer, you're going to look very shifty potentially as you make your way through the thing
2:02:27
which means you're more likely to get searched, which is going to make you even more nervous. That's not your problem, Ian
2:02:31
You've got yourself a round of applause. Thank you very much. I don't know why I'm saying thank you
2:02:38
That was for Ian. I'm saying thank you to Keith for doing his job so well. It's coming up to half past twelve
2:02:42
One phone line free if you want to get a question on the board or indeed answer all of these questions
2:02:47
0345 6060 973 is the number that you need. While Amelia Cox brings you the headlines
2:02:53
James O'Brien on LBC 32 is the time you know I have a kind of
2:02:59
VIP lane on the program not just the normal inbox but I also have my phone with me in the studio
2:03:05
which means that mates sometimes get in touch who for reasons quite frankly
2:03:10
beyond me who are actually listening to the program there's a couple of quite funny examples
2:03:13
here's a message from one of the country's leading journalists I honestly thought it was Monday today
2:03:19
because it's my first day back at work after the holidays And so I just got very confused and quite frankly very angry
2:03:25
thinking what the hell is he doing Mystery Hour for on a Monday? It seriously threw me out
2:03:29
So that is, that's, you know, make of that what you will. One of the country's leading journalists, yet to master the actual calendar
2:03:36
And Wayne in Basildon, on a similar note, has been in touch to say, I've just tuned back in and I didn't realise it was Mystery Hour
2:03:42
Reading all the messages on this chat, I wondered what the hell was going on. It's Thursday
2:03:47
It's 12.33. It's Cracket, it's Mystery Hour. It's because everyone was in the pub last night, isn't it
2:03:54
Or everybody was libating. Is that a verb, Keith? Everybody was enjoying a sherbet, a refreshment
2:04:01
That's why everyone's a little bit weird today. Everything's a little bit off kilter
2:04:05
And, you know, for reasons we discussed in the first hour, that may not resonate with everybody
2:04:10
but it resonates with enough of us to be pertinent, to be relevant. Back to Mystery Hour
2:04:14
Simon's in Lambert. Simon, question or answer? Question, please, James. Good afternoon
2:04:19
Good afternoon. Are white eggshells more brittle than brown eggshells? Thinner, you mean, essentially
2:04:29
Yes, thinner, brittle. It just seemed to break a little bit more when I'm..
2:04:33
I think, yeah, I think that tallies with my personal experiences as well
2:04:39
Yeah, so I just like if someone can find the science behind that
2:04:43
I mean, we need an expert. You know what we need, don't you? An expert
2:04:47
it yeah i set that up for you mate i'm not i'm not a pretty face i could have had that myself
2:04:53
okay i could have had that myself but i let you have it very kind that's awesome birthday as well
2:04:58
oh is it your birthday it's almost like i call it's like i sensed it well happy happy birthday
2:05:03
um are white eggs white eggshells thinner or more brittle than brown eggshells we both think that
2:05:08
they are from our experience of cracking them but we don't know for sure on that and why why would
2:05:15
they be? It's something to do with the composition, obviously. The thing
2:05:19
what makes it brown may add a sort of layer of whatever the opposite
2:05:23
of brittleness is. Sturdiness. Robustness. Thank you, Simon. Still need answers to
2:05:28
the question about barley water, the question about hay lorries, the question about salt and pepper
2:05:33
Doubt, doubt, doubt, doubt, doubt, doubt. I can't believe you haven't got that ready. Do I have to
2:05:38
do everything myself on this programme? Every time I say salt and pepper, we can play a little
2:05:43
bit of doubt, doubt, doubt. No? Alright. Thank you, Keith. I do. You're right
2:05:47
We don't need the record. I'm doing a perfectly good job by myself. Cats and dogs. Why do cats cope better in the heat than the dogs
2:05:53
And are white eggshells thinner than brown eggshells? Ian is in Carrington in Cornwall
2:06:00
Ian, question or answer? Well, I was going to go for another consonant
2:06:03
but I'll go for a question this time, James. Let's do it. So, itches on your skin
2:06:11
I wonder why. When my skin itches, let's say my arm, and I look at it and I think what's going on there
2:06:17
and I scratch it, and it looks exactly the same as everywhere else
2:06:21
but I scratch it and it stops itching. What's happening? What's the question
2:06:27
Why does scratching stop itching? Yeah. This is either a question of unparalleled genius
2:06:34
or epic stupidity. I'll probably vote for the second. I, well, I, often when I think it's the second, it turns out to be the first. So why does scratching work
2:06:47
Yeah, because it looks exactly the same as everything else. Why are you, why are you hung up on how it looks
2:06:53
Um well if I Because it not about how it looks is it A scratch isn a visual thing it a feeling thing thing thing It is but it just like if you
2:07:03
I'm sort of expecting to see something because it's itching, but it's just not..
2:07:07
Oh, I see what you mean. Oh, yeah. Well, you might be. I mean, it might be itching because something's landed on you
2:07:12
or because you've got a little spot or something like that, so there's probably some sort of evolutionary explanation for this
2:07:17
but you get an itch, an invisible itch, and then you scratch it
2:07:22
And then it goes away. So the question is, and I'm standing by my observation
2:07:29
that it's either absolute genius or quite spectacularly poor, why does scratching work
2:07:36
Or how does scratching work? Is it how? How does scratching work? It's more hard because sometimes you might not actually scratch it
2:07:42
you might just rub it gently or just agitate it or you do something to it
2:07:46
Have you ever tried to do it using the power of your mind? Like the Queen
2:07:52
What do you mean like the Queen? Well, she legendarily never scratched anything, did she
2:07:58
I've never heard that legend before about Her Majesty. No. Is that true
2:08:02
Which one? I thought that was a well-known thing. Well, it might be. Just because I don't know it doesn't mean it's not well-known
2:08:07
Quite the opposite, in fact. You mean the late Queen, the last Queen? The late Queen
2:08:11
She was never seen scratching, ever. No. Oh, there's a challenge. I mean, I never saw her having a good old rummage
2:08:20
but surely she might have scratched her earlobe on occasion or something like that. I don't think so
2:08:24
And that was a thing, was it? I'm just going to do a quick, I'm just going to do a quick vote. Everyone put your hand up if you heard the story about the late Queen never scratching
2:08:32
No, it's just you, mate. I may need to do some research
2:08:36
I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. No, my instincts tell me that you're right
2:08:41
and that the people that I work with need to get out more. But certainly not, myself included
2:08:46
It's not one that I've ever heard before. I mean, she never carried cash
2:08:50
I remember that. I initially found that when my mum told me
2:08:55
And her son never sweats, of course. We can't forget that, can we? But the late queen never itched
2:09:01
Never scratched, rather. Who knows how much she itched. We'll never know how much she itched, but she never scratched
2:09:06
Not in public. Not in public. Yes, probably the minute the palace doors were shut
2:09:10
she'd have been like Baloo the Bear, wouldn't she? She'd have been right up against a tree in the Buckingham Palace carpet
2:09:15
thank you ian how does scratching work in the context of invisible itches is it i think it's
2:09:23
probably obvious but how can i say that it's obvious if i don't know what it is
2:09:27
oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three uh and of course how many people got itchy it's a
2:09:34
bit like yawning isn't it you talk about yawning you suddenly talk about itching get a bit itchy
2:09:43
do you or not? Does it work like that? Itchy? Scratchy? Jack is in
2:09:47
Lutterworth in Leicestershire. Jack, question or answer? It's an answer, James. Carry on
2:09:51
So, it's regarding the barley water question. Oh, yes. So, it's added
2:09:57
to the juice and to give a smoother texture. Really? Yeah. So, it's a traditional ingredient to add
2:10:05
a smooth texture to the squash. So, I'm comparing it in my mind's eye
2:10:09
Jack, with Kia Ora. So I'm going back a few years. I haven't seen Kia Ora in the shops for a very long time
2:10:17
but that would be the one I always wanted Mum to buy. Between you and me, she would buy the own brand
2:10:24
low sugar cordials when I was a kid, which were horrible. But if I went to my godmother's, they had Ribena
2:10:30
That was so exciting when they had Ribena. But I've got an image in my mind's eye of Robinson's barley water, orange
2:10:37
and it is more opaque than Kia Ora, isn't it? Yeah. And that's because of the barley
2:10:45
So it creates a more viscous concentrate and then what benefit does that convey when it's diluted
2:10:56
So it will just make a smoother drink so you have a nicer mouthfeel
2:11:00
I was desperately hoping you were going to use the word mouthfeel. It's all about the mouthfeel
2:11:07
Yeah. Qualifications? I'm currently sat in a warehouse full of Robinson's products
2:11:12
Are you joking? No. You're there now? I'm in the company at Mage Robinsons, yes
2:11:17
I'm in the warehouse now and I work for a company at Mage Robinsons. That's pretty good, isn't it, Keith
2:11:24
How many people can you see currently in that warehouse? I can't see anyone come saying out a window
2:11:31
Yeah, all right. How many people are in the building as we speak
2:11:36
Probably a few hundred. How many people are listening to LBC? Not many, because I don't think I've got it on anywhere else
2:11:42
How many flavours of barley water are currently available? I can't remember off my head, but it would be five or six, probably
2:11:51
It's too orangey for crows, clear aura. I'm going to give you a round of applause
2:11:56
I was toying with the idea of giving you a Ray Liotta, but I don't think that I can in the circumstances
2:12:01
You'd need to have, I don't know, come up with the formula or something like that. Is there any benefit to it at all, apart from mouthfeel
2:12:08
Is it good for your kidneys or anything like that? I think it's probably because you've got that added benefit of the barley in there
2:12:13
You probably get more vitamins and things. Yeah. Some of that. So it's probably got a benefit in that way
2:12:18
but all the products have a different benefit. Will you do me one small favour
2:12:26
Will you go and switch the radio in the warehouse to LBC? I'll try to
2:12:32
He's taking his life in his hands there. Round of applause for Jack. Lovely work
2:12:37
Not quite a radio to... I'll get grief for that. Some people think I should have given one
2:12:41
but I'm not going to. Tony's in Chingford. Tony, question or answer
2:12:46
Hello, mate. That was quick, yeah. It's an answer to your itching question. That's why it was quick, you see
2:12:52
Yes. Well, I suffer from hypersensitivity. I have to, like, take labels out of clothes
2:12:57
and, you know... Oh, yeah. ...not wear anything remotely itchy, which is why I wear comfortable clothes all the time
2:13:02
Lovely. When I was talking to the doctor about it, about itching, it's a bit like when you've got a really bad ache in your back
2:13:10
you can't feel an ache in the end of your finger. It's more intense
2:13:15
So your brain is thinking, okay, I've just had that really intense scratch
2:13:20
Now I'm not thinking about the smaller itch. Oh, it's a distraction, essentially
2:13:26
It doesn't actually remove the itch, because the itch would eventually go away of its own accord
2:13:31
but you can't bear to wait long enough for that to happen. So you give it a scratch and your body's going
2:13:35
oh, scratch, and it's forgotten the itch. Yeah, that's exactly it. You've overloaded the sensation of that area with scratching
2:13:43
so the itch has just gone underground, so to speak. Oh, I love that
2:13:48
I know you've already told us, but I have to do the things properly Tony I have to do things by the book Qualifications Hypersensitivity And you asked the doctor I talked with the doctor Yes because I had a thing last year where I was constantly scratching my knee
2:14:01
because I had a mosquito bite and it was driving me absolutely crazy. Of course
2:14:05
And the doctor says, normally, because I'm terrible, I have to spray this stuff over me even if I go in the garden
2:14:10
Yeah. And he said, well, normally scratching just overloads it, so that's where I got the idea from
2:14:16
That's where the information comes from. She was telling me what scratching actually does
2:14:20
but what I was doing was actually causing an injury by scratching it too much
2:14:25
Well, you need to cut your nails as well. Yes, yeah, that is a thing
2:14:29
I don't do that. No, because I'm only half joking. If you don't keep your nails nice and short
2:14:34
then when you have a scratch, you're much more likely to open up a mosquito bite or something like that
2:14:38
I do it in my sleep as well. Oh, well, that's even more reason to keep your nails nice and short
2:14:43
A round of applause for Tony. um that was nice i'm gonna tell you something which i have told you before
2:14:51
but it is actually quite interesting and and and quite i don't know i thought i find it really
2:14:57
sort of intriguing and and tony's just reminded me of this but i bit my nails from the age of about
2:15:03
six six or seven i bit my nails and i sometimes would bite them quite unpleasantly you know down
2:15:09
to the quick as they say and i'd get a little bit of bleed not every day i would bite them every day
2:15:14
but every now and then you'd take a little bit too much off or you'd be nibbling at the cuticle
2:15:18
It's quite unpleasant, I grant you, for people who don't do it. And then about ten years ago
2:15:23
I'm not being indecent or anything like that, I had a scratch
2:15:28
I had an itch, rather, and I scratched it. And it hurt. And I thought, what's going on there
2:15:36
I realised I had quite long fingernails. And do you know why I had quite long fingernails
2:15:42
for the first time in my life since I was six years old. I have told you before
2:15:47
so it's not necessarily going to shake your world or anything like that
2:15:52
but six years, so six to 46, give or take, with nails really bitten down
2:15:59
through nervous energy, tension, stress, anxiety, and then suddenly I realised one day
2:16:06
out of the blue, that I didn't bite my nails anymore. And I'll tell you why after this
2:16:10
James O'Brien on LBC. It is 12.48. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
2:16:16
We could do with a few answers, but first let me answer the question
2:16:20
The reason I shared this with you is because I know that it's not cheap
2:16:24
and it's quite hard to access and you need to be lucky with who you get. But the reason why I stopped biting my nails without noticing
2:16:30
after almost 40 years of biting them was therapy. I was about a month and a half, two months into therapy the first time I went
2:16:38
and I just noticed one day because I was scratching an itch
2:16:41
and it felt very different from how it normally felt when I was scratching an itch. Oh my God, I've got fingernails
2:16:47
And then I just did Occam's razor. I thought, what's changed in my life? Why would I now no longer have the desire to bite my nails
2:16:54
Why would I no longer be anxious, have nervous energy, whatever it was? I used to bite them in the studio
2:17:00
And that was it, therapy. So sometimes it's hard to convey the benefits of therapy
2:17:04
It ties in with what we were talking about in the first hour and the second hour of the program today
2:17:08
Self-care, space to look after yourself, recognising your feelings, understanding yourself a little bit better, then therefore
2:17:14
you will become much more empathetic and sympathetic to others, which are all
2:17:19
good things to be, but that's such a sort of entry-level benefit
2:17:23
isn't it? It's such an easily graspable benefit. So, you associate nail-biting with anxiety
2:17:28
and it disappeared. Not quite overnight, but pretty much. Anyway, you can have that for nothing. 12.50 is the time
2:17:34
I need answers to the following questions. How far would a hay lorry have to drive
2:17:39
before all the hay had fallen off in one straw at a time
2:17:45
Why are salt and pepper... Now, now, now, now, now, now, now
2:17:49
Why are salt and pepper the condiments of choice? Why do cats cope with the heat so much better than dogs
2:17:56
Are white eggs more brittle than brown eggs? I'm thinking of the shells, obviously
2:18:01
and we've done the itches question as well. Sal's in Paddington. Sal, question or answer
2:18:05
Answer about salt and pepper. Down, down, down, down, down. Carry on, sir
2:18:10
I think I've got the LP somewhere. So, it's actually about status
2:18:15
Oh, yes. And up until the 18th century, pepper was a very rarefied commodity and highly taxed
2:18:23
And the same thing was true of salt up until the 19th century
2:18:27
So there was about 100 years difference between the two. And it became a status symbol to show
2:18:34
that everyone was doing better in the country to have salt and pepper regularly available
2:18:40
And so the Industrial Revolution is basically what they do. And, I mean, the other side of the explanation
2:18:46
is that they are flavour enhancers. To a point, yes, because a lot of people were actually loathe to use them
2:18:55
when they became more... Because they were just badges of status. Yes, and so even though they had become common
2:19:02
people didn't actually want to use them in case it went back to being highly taxed
2:19:05
in a rarefied commodity. Oh, that's really funny. So there's real chicken and egg stuff going on here
2:19:10
because the reason why they would become a commodity is their value of their utility
2:19:16
And their utility is that their flavour enhances. But human... Sorry, go on
2:19:20
There's also the holdover of an awful lot of sort of superstition
2:19:25
to do with both of these condiments. Yes. So, I mean, they're still throwing the salt over the shoulder
2:19:31
if you spill some. For the devil. and because it was used to purify holy water
2:19:37
with a sprinkle of salt before it was blessed and so on
2:19:42
So, yeah. I like that. And what I meant by chicken and egg
2:19:47
was that it was of value because of its flavour-enhancing qualities, but because of its value
2:19:54
it then assumed a bit like orchid fever. It then became valuable as an end in itself
2:19:59
rather than as a means to an end. over whether you wanted white pepper or black pepper
2:20:04
because white pepper, it comes from exactly the same source, it's just it's refined and doesn't have as long a shelf life
2:20:10
as black pepper does. Um, I like that. I like that a lot
2:20:15
Your name is salty as well. It is, rather, yes. Is that Sal? Sal is salt
2:20:19
I mean, Sal is salt in French. It's Sal-salt anyway. It's short for Salvador. And what does that mean
2:20:25
Saviour. Saviour. So you're not a salty person, particularly. Oh, it has been known
2:20:30
on occasion. Do you know, Sal, I've mentioned orchid fever, Eleanor doesn't know why, but I mean, I'm not Google
2:20:37
you can look it up. Do you know why I'm thinking of pineapples? Because of the argument as to whether it adds or detracts
2:20:46
the sweetness and saltiness on a pizza Nope Because of how important they are architecturally and why you have statues of them all over the place
2:20:58
from sort of the 1760s onwards? Close, but no cigar. That's a shame
2:21:05
I'd quite like a cigar. I have no clue. Oh, well, they were all..
2:21:11
He's there. He's getting it. The pineapple was used often as a salt or a pepper holder and shaker
2:21:20
It's not that either, but you're kind of nibbling at the edges of the correct answer
2:21:25
That's because I don't want to eat any pizza that has pineapple on it
2:21:29
I kind of disagree with you on that, but that's for another day. The answer is that a pineapple was a huge status symbol back in the day
2:21:37
because it was so valuable to the point where hostesses, society hostesses, would rent them
2:21:45
you would rent a pineapple off your greengrocer and have it on your table during a dinner party
2:21:51
and then you would give it back afterwards. I didn't know that
2:21:55
but that does tie into why there are so many old buildings
2:21:59
and private members clubs who still have them outside as... A signifier of Welsh
2:22:06
Absolutely. I think that I got that from a Laura Shepard Robinson book
2:22:11
She's one of my favourite authors. and historical fiction being a particular area of brilliance for her
2:22:19
And I'm pretty sure it was in one of Laura's books that I learned that about pineapples
2:22:24
A new library is worth of reading that I've got to do. Amazing
2:22:29
There it is. It's written about, I think, three books so far and the fourth is about to come out
2:22:34
A round of applause for Sal. I like that, salt and pepper
2:22:39
Now, now, now, now, now, now. Eric's in Liverpool. Eric, question or answer? Answer. Carry on
2:22:45
Right. I've had cats since I was eight. I'm now 70 years old
2:22:49
And all my ex-girlfriends have had cats. Now, the reason they stay cool is they're basically nocturnal
2:22:56
so they tend to be around, you know, more active over nighttime when it's cool
2:23:01
And also, they're desert animals. They originated, you know, from Persia. Persia
2:23:07
Yeah, that's Persia. But also, like cats, you know when they lick themselves, they lick the fur a certain way, so the fur keeps them cool
2:23:17
They're just built for heat. They're built for heat in the way that dogs are not. That's right. And they're smaller as well, on average
2:23:24
Usually. Qualifications? Well, as I say, I've had cats all my life, and I've studied them
2:23:31
You've watched them closely. Yeah. And I'd like, oh, my two cats, the house cats, Lola and Luna, would like to say hi
2:23:37
and like me, they think you're a great presenter. Oh, God, I have my moment
2:23:42
I have my moment. Give Eric a round of applause, please. Thank you
2:23:48
Wasn't that funny? Thank you, Eric. It's 1256. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
2:23:53
It's true, that, about the pineapples. Well, it's true that I read it somewhere. It doesn't mean that it's true, true
2:23:58
but it's true that I read it somewhere. I also read about... I didn't know about tulip fever, actually
2:24:02
but I think Deborah Mogach wrote a book about that. Rowan's in the Forest of Dean
2:24:06
Rowan, question or answer? Answer. Carry on. Well, bale the hay, that loose hay that you see flying off
2:24:16
it's not actually part of the bale. When you load the trailer
2:24:21
you obviously have a load of loose hay that's attached to all the outside, and that's the stuff that's flying off
2:24:28
The further you drive from the field, the less hay is coming off
2:24:33
So the question is based on entirely false premises. pretty much. So, in fact, if you drive..
2:24:40
It would be how far do you have to drive before the hay stops flying off the back
2:24:45
not how far do you have to drive before there's no hay left? Yes, yeah
2:24:50
As you load them, you're picking them up, and you're obviously loading them by hand
2:24:54
They're prickly, the bales, and so they obviously get a load of hay stuck around them
2:24:59
and then it's just the stuff on the outside that's not actually tied into the bales
2:25:03
So, yeah, I mean, this is a perfect answer to a rather good question
2:25:08
Qualifications? Well, live in the countryside, worked on farms for a long time
2:25:13
Are you currently working on a farm? Not right now. No, but I mean, is that currently your main employment
2:25:21
No, no. I work on farms a lot. Okay. When did you last bale a hay or hay a bale
2:25:30
Yesterday. Did you really? Yeah. Well, then you are working on a farm
2:25:36
Yeah, well, not today. No, but I mean generally. Yeah, well, yeah, it's part of the country's lifestyle, isn't it
2:25:45
Well, I know it is. I just want you to say I'm a farmer
2:25:49
Yeah, I'm a farmer. Well, yeah, I don't have a farm, but I'm a farmer. Yeah, well, I don't have a farm either, but I'm not a farmer
2:25:54
I grew up on a farm, but we didn't farm it. It was just, it was like an old converted farm
2:25:58
and we bought a bit of it to live in, but the farmer just had the barn at the bottom of the lane
2:26:03
and did all the farming. I just wanted you to say that because I think the last farmer I spoke to was the angriest person that has ever rung this radio station
2:26:11
So it's nice to have a contrast because you sound lovely. Well, you know, I try to be
2:26:16
Don't we all? But at least you pull it off, Rowan, which makes one of us. Have a round of applause on me
2:26:22
In fact, have a game as well. Do you want a game, Rowan? Yeah, I'll have a game
2:26:26
Let's send him a game. Seriously. Do you want it in a tin or in a box? In a tin
2:26:31
Send him the tin as well. There you go. Something for him to do. between. I like the idea of the lads sitting
2:26:35
around, having done a hard day's hay baling, having a quick round of Mystery Hour
2:26:39
You could use the bale as a table, you know. Oh, that's lovely. A pint of cider
2:26:44
Oh, what a bucolic-y deal we've conjured up. Let's go. I think I better go home
2:26:49
If you missed any of today's show, you can listen back on Catch Up on Global Player, or indeed on the LBC app, where you can also stay up
2:26:55
to date with all the latest news, videos, and opinions. You can listen to a range of podcasts, including
2:26:59
James O'Brien Daily, the best bits from my LBC show every day. Download the official
2:27:03
LBC app for free from your app store now. Simon Marks back at four in for Tom Swalbrick
2:27:09
who's currently in for Nick Ferrari. But now it's time for Sheila Fogarty. Thank you. My angriest caller, uh, ranted and raved about the fact that I talk
2:27:20
Yeah, tricky that, isn't it? Hard to meet his or her. He was sick of hearing my voice. Sick of hearing my voice and sick of hearing my name on the radio
2:27:31
I sometimes wonder whether we should send people round to these persons' houses to teach them how to turn things down and or off
2:27:38
Or off, yeah. But hey-ho. I was more inclined to go and just shout through the letterbox
2:27:42
Hello! Anyway, thank you very much, James. James O'Brien on LBC

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