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James O'Brien reflects on the England v Argentina World Cup semi-final and attempts to seek out the 'positives'. Argentina beat England 2-1 after a late comeback with goals from Enzo Fernández and Lautaro Martínez. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #jamesobrien #england #fifa #football #bellingham #harrykane #worldcup #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
I wish I could find a way to look after you, if you are not just cold, but utterly, utterly unengaged by what most of the country is still obsessed with
0:11
I sometimes come on air in the morning and find myself thinking, what's the hardest position to adopt this morning
0:19
What would be the... True, I mean, it has to be something that I feel genuinely, but what would be the hardest corner to defend, the hardest position to defend
0:27
I suppose at the moment it would be coming on air telling people that love the football that they're idiots
0:33
Come, grow up, will you? It's just 22 men kicking a bladder around a field
0:36
And I can't do that because it wouldn't be honest. It wouldn't be true. But if you are in that camp, I do feel for you
0:43
And I do wonder whether one day we'll find a way of engaging that position, those feelings
0:53
It would be wrong to do so today because it's hard to count
0:57
isn't it we can't put the numbers on it haven't seen the tv ratings yet but but pretty much the
1:01
whole country stopped last night as we touched on yesterday even people who never watch football or
1:05
only ever get engaged by the big international competitions and of course that level of engagement
1:11
uh increases exponentially the further into the tournament that we go and we've only gone further
1:17
than we went this year once before in our island history then obviously it is it is by far the
1:23
biggest story in town it's double did you know that andy's just pointed it out i already knew
1:30
this one andy actually it's double now since they put the song out when they put the song out it was
1:35
30 years of hurt and now it's 60 it was 30 years of hurt and do you remember that felt like a long
1:43
time i suppose you may not you may you may not have been born when the lightning seeds and uh
1:48
David Baddiel and Frank Skinner put together what is arguably the most successful football song of all time
1:55
It may not be your favourite. I'm a New Order man myself. But it was still obviously a beautiful tune
2:00
that continues to reverberate around the country every two to four years
2:06
depending on which tournament it is you're talking about. But, yeah, so no apologies for doing this
2:12
And don't waste up on sending me a text to say, oh, it's so boring, because it isn't
2:16
It just isn't. You are. You're boring. If you're not engaged by or interested in the feelings of almost everybody around you, then I'm afraid you're the problem, not them. And I won't make a big thing out of that, and I won't say it exponentially
2:31
And of course, you know, that the line about Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland exist and none of us care, as Ian has written, that's not true either, mate
2:38
And also, it's a really sad thing to be doing in the morning when the massive majority of the population in the country that you inhabit, if not the kingdom, is hugely engaged and still hugely interested in it
2:50
If you think that the television viewing figures in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales last night for the football were zero
2:57
then I have a rather nice bridge that I'd like to sell you, mate. If you'd form an orderly queue, people who think that the television viewing figures outside of England
3:06
in the rest of the United Kingdom, were low, negligible or zero, then roll up, roll up, I've got a beautiful bridge to sell you
3:13
Seven minutes after ten is the time. So how do we do it? How do we, keeping our spirits up, as it were
3:21
recognising the sadness going too soon. This could be, you know, if normal service is resumed
3:27
and we cease to be a team that regularly gets into the final stages
3:32
of international tournaments, as we were for most of my life, then this could be the last ever football podium we do on this programme
3:40
And there's a little bit of me that was tempted to do an old-fashioned style
3:43
There's two things I'd like to do. It's mad, isn't it, that you can be on the radio for over 20 years
3:48
You can, as we currently do, present the most popular, the most listened to speech radio programme
3:54
in the history of British commercial radio. I'll say that again because, you know, no one else will
4:00
The most listened to speech radio programme in the history of UK commercial radio
4:06
I mention it quite often because it probably won last You know what goes up must come down so make hay while the sun shine while the sun shines and insert whatever your favorite cliche is given that that appears to be what we doing at the moment but it mad that you can
4:20
be present a presenter for over 20 years of the most successful speech radio show
4:24
in the history of uk commercial radio and i've never played a record and i've never done what did the manager get right or what did the manager get
4:31
wrong last night i've never played a record and i've never done a football phone-in. If you think about how
4:36
massive a part of our radio heritage, playing records, do they still call them records, Keith, in this
4:43
kind of context? Yeah? Thank you. Playing records and doing a football phone-in, that probably
4:49
makes up about 50 to 60% more, isn't it? What percentage of
4:53
radio that you can listen to on any given day will involve either football or
4:57
playing records? Almost all of it. Ah, I've never done either. I've played a little snatch
5:03
of music. There is a radio tradition, which I think dates back to the late 1700s, that you play
5:10
a vaguely appropriate snatch of music to introduce a topic that has something to do with the subject
5:16
of the song. So if you're talking about, I don't know, smart motorways, you might play a little bit
5:20
of Cars by Gary Newman. But that is a little bit dinosaur. Even they, of course, don't play out the
5:27
whole record, don't play out the whole record. And how do you do a football phone-in? I haven't
5:32
really listen to them for a long time. He used to listen to 606 on Five Live
5:36
But how do you even do it after a night like last night when it was
5:40
relatively obvious what went wrong? You do not, when you go one up against what is arguably
5:46
the best team in the world, certainly contains the best player in the history of football, you do
5:50
not say, well, let's spend the next half an hour inviting them to punch us in the hope
5:54
that we don't get knocked over. Come on, show us what you've got, world
5:58
champions. We will endeavour to keep you out. Work to get against Mexico, don't get me wrong
6:04
but surely there is pretty close to unanimity among people who watched it
6:08
with even a modicum of understanding that we got it wrong. Thomas Tuchel got it wrong
6:12
You should not have piled 11 players behind the ball against that team in that context at that time
6:18
It should have just carried on. You were winning, you were playing better, you were on top. You had the bulk of
6:23
but just carry on doing what you're doing, make a couple of, but anyway, that's why I've never really
6:28
really enjoyed football phone-ins because, you know, everyone's a blooming expert. I think everybody should be required to add at the end
6:36
well, when you've explained what you would have done if you were the England manager
6:40
and men are weird, aren't we? We are so weird. You know how many men think that they could beat Serena Williams at tennis
6:45
despite the fact they haven't picked up a racket since 1979? Men are just mad
6:50
We all think, oh, yeah, given a chance, with a prevailing wind, I could probably get a few runs against Brian Lara, you know, given a chance
6:56
We do. We honestly think this. we honestly think yeah if the cards had fallen differently i reckon i probably could have played
7:02
played for our first division side we're just rubbish you couldn't have done
7:07
ain't there players who were brilliant who never actually made the grade but all men almost all
7:13
men normal men innocent men almost all men have somewhere inside a completely unjustified belief
7:20
that they could do it happened to me towards the end of last season when it looked like
7:23
because of Mr Harriers weren't going to get promoted. I found myself thinking, well, maybe if I went into the dressing room before the game
7:30
and gave them a bit of a pep talk, gave them a bit of a motivational speech
7:33
you know, I reckon I could probably get, what are you talking about
7:38
And yet so much of British radio is contingent upon the idea that Bob in Broadstairs will be better at managing a football team
7:47
It's why that Ricky Tomlinson film was so good, isn't it? Bob in Broadstairs would do a better job
7:52
of managing the England football team than some of the most supremely qualified people
7:55
in the history of the game. And it works. We like the idea
7:59
I would require you, if I ever did that, to say at the end, yeah, but anyway
8:03
we probably would have lost 10-0. We probably would have lost... Here's what I would have done
8:07
I'd have done this, I'd have done that. Four at the back, three at the front, yadda, yadda, yadda, bing, bang, bong
8:11
Oh, yeah, but anyway, we probably would have lost 78-0. But we don't believe, we honestly think
8:17
Pubs would probably go bust if they banned conversations that were predicated upon the presumption
8:22
that the bloke over there would do a better job not just in the dugout but actually on the field Oh he should have played it there Why didn he put it Oh play it up do it I mean we did the cognitive dissonance yesterday
8:37
We did the madness of it yesterday. The absolute impossibility of pinpointing why we care so much
8:45
Why we, and again, don't waste up in sending me a text to tell me that you don't. actually I probably could have scored a few
8:51
runs against Brian Lara come to think of it given that he was a batsman not a bowler
8:55
but I don't know what I think I want to do today
9:03
I don't think there is much point doing the doing the post mortem
9:10
I presume they're doing it everywhere else at the moment oh should we do a post mortem
9:15
I tell you what I want I want your biggest positive. I think that, I know it's a little bit Pollyanna-ish
9:21
it's a little bit too soon, but I think this has been the culmination of something
9:26
that Gary Southgate set in motion. An 18-year-old said to me last night
9:32
that one of the things that she found most incredible about all of this was that the team, the players
9:39
all appear to be, or not all, but most of them, appear to be really good boyfriends and husbands
9:45
An 18-year-old woman said that to me last night, and it kind of stopped me in my tracks
9:50
Because I grew up in an era where footballers were routinely getting into trouble
9:55
for having sort of borderline orgies, or having affairs with their teammates' exes
9:59
or behaving in ways that were, well, unseemly, or seedy, or sleazy
10:08
It was fairly commonplace. The private lives of footballers were plastered all over our newspapers
10:13
and either they employ crisis management PR that is the best in the world
10:21
or something quite significant has changed. And the England football team is now made up of..
10:28
I don't mean to criticise everybody who has pulled on the shirt before
10:33
but they just seem to be, despite the fact that they are as rich as Croesus
10:37
they just seem to be much nicer lads than they used to be. The number of them that are still with their childhood
10:43
sweethearts. It puts a song in my romantic idealistic heart. It's such a lovely thing
10:50
Rather than running off with pop stars or, you know, shacking up with the whatever the modern
10:56
day equivalent of a page three girl. I don't want to sound sententious and I certainly don't want
11:02
to sound old-fashioned, but I don't think I do because I'm describing modernity. I'm describing
11:06
what's going on now. If you're in your 20s, you would probably
11:11
balk at what the team used to look like, how the England players used to be portrayed
11:17
We've had tournaments where the major focus of attention was the wives
11:21
and girlfriends. They would be the story. They even had their own nickname. Wags. It's not, I grant you
11:27
the most imaginative nickname in the world. Spoiler alert, it stands for wives and girlfriends
11:31
But somehow, in the last, what, 10 years, is it? That's been, um
11:36
that's been completely turned around. So that's my takeaway, actually, is that I'm the father of two daughters
11:45
and I'm not an anorak. I follow the football. I'm fairly up on it
11:51
I was playing a game last night. So close your eyes and see how many you can name
11:55
Because I wanted to do it to politicians. I reckon Keir Starmer could probably get up to
12:00
about 15 or 16 players, couldn't he? I mean, your proper fan is going to include the bench
12:06
Close your eyes and name as many players as you can that have got a cap during this World Cup
12:10
Or indeed haven't. But when, well, you get a cap if you go
12:16
Or rather, if you're a substitute. Proper fans, politicians saying, oh, it's marvellous, I love the football I do
12:22
I remember years ago, I won't tell you who it was because I quite like them
12:27
but I did a TV show with a politician who was talking about how important football was
12:32
in their constituency. And they didn't know that their team was actually playing that night
12:36
I sort of said as we came off air I said you probably want to check the score And she sort of went well what score What score And that fine You know I think that politicians do that But I wonder how many politicians
12:47
and Burnham and Starmer could, I'm pretty sure. They could get fairly deep into the squad
12:53
without any clues or help. But I was doing that last night
12:58
I got up to about nine, I think. So I'm mid-table. I'm a mid-table football fan, I think it's fair to say
13:07
And my big takeaway as a father of daughters, I realised yesterday
13:12
was that if your daughter's brought home one of these lads, you'd be quite pleased about it
13:18
If your daughter had brought home, again, I'm slightly reluctant to name names
13:22
but if your daughter had brought home someone who was famous for having an extramarital affair with his teammate's ex
13:28
you probably wouldn't be celebrating, unless the money was more important to you than your daughter's happiness
13:33
you probably wouldn't be celebrating. If your daughter brought home someone who'd been in the News of the World last week
13:39
for a five-in-a-bed romp, he probably wouldn't be celebrated. Am I right? I am right, right
13:45
If one of your daughters brought one of these lads home, not only would you be thinking, well, that's my retirement sorted
13:52
but you'd also be thinking, oh, that's nice. What a nice young man
13:58
I've turned into that old lady in the back of the AA advert, haven't I
14:02
Do you remember that one? He's a very nice man. Oh, he's a very, very nice. He's a very nice man. He's a very, very nice man
14:09
I've turned into an old lady sitting in the back of a car, being driven by a roadside assistance person
14:17
Again, I'm showing my age. You may not remember that. So, the positive. But what's the biggest positive
14:24
And I've shown you it doesn't have to be something on the pitch, although you can by all means go full anorak if you want to
14:30
I'm not suggesting that we should be celebrating. We lost. and I think we probably lost
14:35
as a consequence of a tactical mistake coupled with the fact that we were up against
14:39
an absolutely brilliant team. Quite why you would do that thing against some of the finest goal scorers on the planet
14:46
say come and show us your best, come and have a go. It is a bit like walking into a boxing ring
14:51
and putting your hands by the side thinking well we're ahead on points if we can just stay on our feet until the end
14:56
until the bell rings then we're going to win the fight but let's not bother punching the other bloke now
15:00
because we're ahead on points. So you just stand there with your hands by your side getting absolutely pummeled
15:06
thinking that you're going to be able to stay on your feet. And then, of course, we didn't. You couldn't
15:11
So, what's the positive? And actually, what's changed? Are we still having hydration breaks, Keith
15:23
or should I talk right through to the half past ten? We're still having hydration breaks
15:28
Well, as someone who follows football, England, Not necessarily football, so you only really pay attention
15:35
when it is the national side doing this. And, of course, you know, if you're not English, you watch as well
15:42
You consume the same media that the rest of us consume. You're aware of the same stories
15:47
What's changed? What do you think has changed? Say, if you're Scottish, the coverage of the England team
15:54
We'll talk when Scotland gets to the semi-final of the World Cup. We'll talk about Scotland. I'm not being glib
16:00
What's changed? It just feels really different. It feels really different. It can't just be because we're doing better
16:09
The newspapers no longer abuse these men, no longer treat the manager like a sort of national punch bag
16:15
What's the biggest positive takeaway? 0345 6060 973. And what's changed during the course of your viewing life
16:28
The last 20 years? The last 10 to 20 years? It seems to me that the public's relationship with the football team
16:35
has changed almost beyond recognition. And because it's happened incrementally, we haven't necessarily noticed it
16:41
as much as we would have done if it had happened overnight. It's a completely different feeling
16:46
from what it was 10, 20 years ago. Why? I mean, what are those conflicting, contrary feelings
16:55
But why
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